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View Full Version : Who was better entering the league? Williamson or LeBron?



Jeffy25
02-14-2019, 03:36 AM
Had a buddy say he thinks Williamson is better than LeBron was entering the league (with the extra year of college)

Thoughts?

Heediot
02-14-2019, 10:39 AM
LeBron. He was the greatest prospect ever.

Scoots
02-14-2019, 10:40 AM
Williamson was terrible when he entered the league

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 10:40 AM
LeBron was easily more polished, and skilled coming in. Zion has Barkley potential, but James came in with GOAT potential. LeBron's rookie year was excellent, but they basically tossed him the franchise as a 19 year old, so he took some lumps. By year 2, he was a top 7-8 player, by year 3 he was a top 2 player. Zion has massive potential, and might be the best prospect since LeBron (Durant has a case though). But he isn't quite LeBron.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 10:41 AM
LeBron. He was the greatest prospect ever.

mmm, Jabbar has a case in the argument, but yeah man. Modern ball only, LeBron is the best prospect we have seen.

Rivera
02-14-2019, 10:52 AM
lebron. what lebron did his rookie season (which is Zions duke year) is just more impressive.

even if i take out the levels of competition they played against and just looked at pure skill level


both were built. LBJ 6'8 240 Zion 6'7 280

both were explosive, remember, we use to be in awe that LBJs head would be at the top of the square

it feels like Zion has more bounce, meaning, I dont think ive seen a quicker leaper once a player gets back from the floor.

Zion is a very underrated passer, but LBJ was known for his playmaking

young LBJ had a great motor, Zion seems to have a great motor

both jumpers were pretty broken but both could hit when needed

when its taking the ball to the rim, both are amazing

LBJ was smarter than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better ball hadler than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better prospect and had a more developed skill set than Zion at 19

LBJ was all NBA 2nd team his rookie season

we will see what happens when zion enters the league next year, but just to match Lebron at the same age Zion would need:

to lead his team to the playoffs, needs to be an all star, be a member of the all NBA 1st team, average around 27/7/7 on good efficiency

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 10:55 AM
lebron. what lebron did his rookie season (which is Zions duke year) is just more impressive.

even if i take out the levels of competition they played against and just looked at pure skill level


both were built. LBJ 6'8 240 Zion 6'7 280

both were explosive, remember, we use to be in awe that LBJs head would be at the top of the square

it feels like Zion has more bounce, meaning, I dont think ive seen a quicker leaper once a player gets back from the floor.

Zion is a very underrated passer, but LBJ was known for his playmaking

young LBJ had a great motor, Zion seems to have a great motor

both jumpers were pretty broken but both could hit when needed

when its taking the ball to the rim, both are amazing

LBJ was smarter than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better ball hadler than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better prospect and had a more developed skill set than Zion at 19

LBJ was all NBA 2nd team his rookie season

we will see what happens when zion enters the league next year, but just to match Lebron at the same age Zion would need:

to lead his team to the playoffs, needs to be an all star, be a member of the all NBA 1st team, average around 27/7/7 on good efficiency

dude, exactly why I said he reminds me of Nique. Just explode from nothing into a violent jump

also, Rodman had maybe the quickest 2nd jump ever. Just didn't get 43 inches off the ground haha

Heediot
02-14-2019, 10:58 AM
skill wise luka could be argued as goat prospect.

Rivera
02-14-2019, 11:09 AM
dude, exactly why I said he reminds me of Nique. Just explode from nothing into a violent jump

also, Rodman had maybe the quickest 2nd jump ever. Just didn't get 43 inches off the ground haha

that is very very true about rodman haha, those long arms and quick bounces led to sooooo many tips

Rivera
02-14-2019, 11:11 AM
skill wise luka could be argued as goat prospect.

i could see that argument, but its hard to seperate skills with athletiscm when comparing nba prospects before coming into the league, after when you see a player uses his body/spacing and smarts to create it just shows how good luka is

but i remember a lot of questions about Lukas ability to create space, create his own shot because he wasnt the fastest or most athletic, and there was questions about drafting a european guard that high

its a hard comparison to make

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 11:17 AM
skill wise luka could be argued as goat prospect.

absolutely, but his size/athletic ability are nowhere near LeBron or Zion. But Luka clearly has the makings of a James Harden like impact.

Heediot
02-14-2019, 11:24 AM
i could see that argument, but its hard to seperate skills with athletiscm when comparing nba prospects before coming into the league, after when you see a player uses his body/spacing and smarts to create it just shows how good luka is

but i remember a lot of questions about Lukas ability to create space, create his own shot because he wasnt the fastest or most athletic, and there was questions about drafting a european guard that high

its a hard comparison to make

fiba/euro rules make it more difficult to exploit defenses. so when people are scouting they should be aware of such dynamics.

luka even said it himself.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/825790/luka-doncic-its-easier-to-score-in-the-nba-than-in-europe/

Guys are up in your grill more and lanes are more clogged. the athleticism/explosiveness concerns were warranted though.

ewing
02-14-2019, 12:05 PM
Zion is better then James now


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kyubi256
02-14-2019, 12:26 PM
This is dumb. LeBron is the better prospect. No one will likely ever be as good of a prospect of LeBron coming in.

Some forget just how good of a prospect LeBron was coming in....

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 12:34 PM
This is dumb. LeBron is the better prospect. No one will likely ever be as good of a prospect of LeBron coming in.

Some forget just how good of a prospect LeBron was coming in....

seriously. How can people forget he was literally considered can't miss by age 15. Hell he was named the best high school player in the country as a junior. He was the "chosen one" as a kid, easily the greatest prospect we have come across.

Rivera
02-14-2019, 12:54 PM
seriously. How can people forget he was literally considered can't miss by age 15. Hell he was named the best high school player in the country as a junior. He was the "chosen one" as a kid, easily the greatest prospect we have come across.

i dont know why but this made me think of OJ Mayo

remember the hype he had in high school? :laugh2:

but he suffered from the post bron, where nba teams were trying to find the next Bron in high school

crewfan13
02-14-2019, 12:54 PM
skill wise luka could be argued as goat prospect.

Probably not the best way to look at it and certain teams potentially being bad evaluators shouldnt skew it, but the fact Luka wasn't first and there wasn't a big uproar that he wasn't first sort of validates that he wasn't the goat prospect.

I really liked luka and I probably would have taken him first if I was say an expansion franchise or something (so positional fit doesn't matter in any way), but to be a goat prospect I think being a fairly universally accepted #1 pick is almost a requirement. But it's not the only argument. Obviously being the unanimously top prospect in a bad draft doesn't make you the goat.

crewfan13
02-14-2019, 12:56 PM
i dont know why but this made me think of OJ Mayo

remember the hype he had in high school? :laugh2:

but he suffered from the post bron, where nba teams were trying to find the next Bron in high school

Jabari was the same way. He had that SI cover article about him before his senior year of high school.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 12:59 PM
i dont know why but this made me think of OJ Mayo

remember the hype he had in high school? :laugh2:

but he suffered from the post bron, where nba teams were trying to find the next Bron in high school

I NEVER got the Mayo hype. He wasn't considered the same level, at all. But he was a top prospect. I just remember the Kobe comparisons, and I was like, "uh, he isn't quick, fast, strong, and can't shoot". I had to talk some friends off a ledge when we traded him for Love on draft night.

ewing
02-14-2019, 02:21 PM
LeBron is like the Patriots if the Patriots only won about 40% of the time. Obviously Zion hasn't accomplished anything yet but I think he should have higher goals

Jeffy25
02-14-2019, 02:34 PM
lebron. what lebron did his rookie season (which is Zions duke year) is just more impressive.

even if i take out the levels of competition they played against and just looked at pure skill level


both were built. LBJ 6'8 240 Zion 6'7 280

both were explosive, remember, we use to be in awe that LBJs head would be at the top of the square

it feels like Zion has more bounce, meaning, I dont think ive seen a quicker leaper once a player gets back from the floor.

Zion is a very underrated passer, but LBJ was known for his playmaking

young LBJ had a great motor, Zion seems to have a great motor

both jumpers were pretty broken but both could hit when needed

when its taking the ball to the rim, both are amazing

LBJ was smarter than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better ball hadler than Zion his rookie season

LBJ was a better prospect and had a more developed skill set than Zion at 19

LBJ was all NBA 2nd team his rookie season

we will see what happens when zion enters the league next year, but just to match Lebron at the same age Zion would need:

to lead his team to the playoffs, needs to be an all star, be a member of the all NBA 1st team, average around 27/7/7 on good efficiency

Who was the better shooter at 18?

Heediot
02-14-2019, 02:35 PM
Probably not the best way to look at it and certain teams potentially being bad evaluators shouldnt skew it, but the fact Luka wasn't first and there wasn't a big uproar that he wasn't first sort of validates that he wasn't the goat prospect.

I really liked luka and I probably would have taken him first if I was say an expansion franchise or something (so positional fit doesn't matter in any way), but to be a goat prospect I think being a fairly universally accepted #1 pick is almost a requirement. But it's not the only argument. Obviously being the unanimously top prospect in a bad draft doesn't make you the goat.

Just saying SKILL wise. Not the combination of uber skill and uber athleticism, or uber athleticism and potential.
Outside of Bird, who was really a more skilled prospect? Doncic is 2-3 years younger vs. Bird at the time of the draft.

When I mean skill I mean shooting, passing, iq, vision, fundamentals. Not how high you can jump, how fast you can run, how agile you are, or footspeed going east and west. Those traits can enhance one's skills but I am trying to isolate skill apart from combining it with athleticism. Tim Duncan was skilled as a 1st overall pick. Nikola Jokic is skilled as a 2nd round pick.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 02:48 PM
LeBron is like the Patriots if the Patriots only won about 40% of the time. Obviously Zion hasn't accomplished anything yet but I think he should have higher goals

basketball isn't tennis. In order for Zion to do that, he needs to luck out like Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Curry, or anyone else that enjoys HOF rosters yearly from start to finish in his career.

I mean, honestly, would you really bet Zion ends up as good as LeBron? Cmon dude.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 02:51 PM
Just saying SKILL wise. Not the combination of uber skill and uber athleticism, or uber athleticism and potential.
Outside of Bird, who was really a more skilled prospect? Doncic is 2-3 years younger vs. Bird at the time of the draft.

When I mean skill I mean shooting, passing, iq, vision, fundamentals. Not how high you can jump, how fast you can run, how agile you are, or footspeed going east and west. Those traits can enhance one's skills but I am trying to isolate skill apart from combining it with athleticism. Tim Duncan was skilled as a 1st overall pick. Nikola Jokic is skilled as a 2nd round pick.

not trying to debate you on this, because I understand your point, but it reminds me of my Dad stating Bird was better than MJ and LeBron because he was more "skilled". Well sure, but at the end of the day, Shaq couldn't dribble from 15 feet away and score against a defender, yet he is a top 6 player ever. No matter how hard we try, basketball is a sport where size, speed, and strength make up for a lot, and propel a very good player to a great player.

prodigy
02-14-2019, 02:59 PM
Some forget just how good of a prospect LeBron was coming in....

some people forget how good he is now...

IndyRealist
02-14-2019, 03:19 PM
We were hearing about Lebron for years before he entered the league. He was concensus #1 at like 14.

Zion's hype reminds me much more of Beasley or Oden. Maybe Exum. I can't think of anyone successful offhand with the same kind of hype, which is probably cautionary about hyping guys up before they step foot on an NBA court.

Edit: Anthony Davis. That's what the hype is like.

WaDe03
02-14-2019, 03:33 PM
We were hearing about Lebron for years before he entered the league. He was concensus #1 at like 14.

Zion's hype reminds me much more of Beasley or Oden. Maybe Exum. I can't think of anyone successful offhand with the same kind of hype, which is probably cautionary about hyping guys up before they step foot on an NBA court.

You turn it to espn or check social media you see Zion. His hype is far greater than those guys you mentioned.

ewing
02-14-2019, 03:33 PM
basketball isn't tennis. In order for Zion to do that, he needs to luck out like Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Curry, or anyone else that enjoys HOF rosters yearly from start to finish in his career.

I mean, honestly, would you really bet Zion ends up as good as LeBron? Cmon dude.

I expect better then a sub 40% winning % while looking to stack the deck in your favor every year

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 03:54 PM
I expect better then a sub 40% winning % while looking to stack the deck in your favor every year

at least you're hatred is consistent haha. Like, I KNOW you know the game, you just can't help yourself when it comes to LeBron.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 03:55 PM
You turn it to espn or check social media you see Zion. His hype is far greater than those guys you mentioned.

I think he is speaking more so of national attention didn't start until college. He is right. LeBron was known by everyone by age 17. Only hardcore bball fans knew who Zion was before a few months ago.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 03:55 PM
We were hearing about Lebron for years before he entered the league. He was concensus #1 at like 14.

Zion's hype reminds me much more of Beasley or Oden. Maybe Exum. I can't think of anyone successful offhand with the same kind of hype, which is probably cautionary about hyping guys up before they step foot on an NBA court.

Edit: Anthony Davis. That's what the hype is like.

Durant came to mind for me.

Rivera
02-14-2019, 04:07 PM
I think he is speaking more so of national attention didn't start until college. He is right. LeBron was known by everyone by age 17. Only hardcore bball fans knew who Zion was before a few months ago.

love ya but couldnt disagree with that statement more

Zion was known by casual BBall fans. But it wasnt cause of his overall play like LeBron was.

Zion was known by the casual NBA Fan because of his insane athleticism and incredible dunks in high school. hate to use ESPN as an a crutch, but his highlight dunks were all over SC Top 10 all over youtube and other social media platforms

Hawkeye15
02-14-2019, 04:28 PM
love ya but couldnt disagree with that statement more

Zion was known by casual BBall fans. But it wasnt cause of his overall play like LeBron was.

Zion was known by the casual NBA Fan because of his insane athleticism and incredible dunks in high school. hate to use ESPN as an a crutch, but his highlight dunks were all over SC Top 10 all over youtube and other social media platforms

I had heard the name, couldn't tell you a thing about him. I hate to gauge the world by me, but if I haven't even seen a guy play he isn't well known. In the age of social media, it's hard to be invisible if you had a few amazing dunks. That is way different than everyone in the basketball world knowing exactly who you are.

My overall point is, LeBron was known by the entire basketball community by age 14. Imagine him today, with social media. Hell they had to play his high school games at Dayton college, because so many people were coming to watch. Today, he would be playing at OSU haha. As a kid..

ManningToTyree
02-14-2019, 05:33 PM
Lebron was the chosen one haha Zion is a freak and seems canít miss but bron was better at that age


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IndyRealist
02-14-2019, 05:39 PM
You turn it to espn or check social media you see Zion. His hype is far greater than those guys you mentioned.

There's more hype because there's more internet. Twitter was only a year old when Oden came out.

Lakers + Giants
02-14-2019, 07:10 PM
You turn it to espn or check social media you see Zion. His hype is far greater than those guys you mentioned.

Horrible take, The Internet back then =/= now...

FlashBolt
02-14-2019, 09:22 PM
Lmao, this is ridiculous. Danny Ainge said there were only 3-4 players he wouldn't trade for a LeBron James.. Note: This was when LeBron was a junior in high school. A JUNIOR. That was when there was prime Shaq, Kobe, Timmy D, KG, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Vince Carter, etc.,

There were some GM's who said they would have taken LeBron as #1 as a JUNIOR. Of course, the other guy was Yao Ming - who based off of his height, is understandable as to why he would be #1.

Antoine Walker, an All-Star that year, said to Paul Pierce that LeBron could be better than them. This was when LeBron was just finishing up his senior year. For an All-Star to say that to another All-Star about a player in High School is insane.

There is no comparison. Zion is playing on one of the most stacked starting team in NCAA history. Three players on that team are expected to be top five picks in many mock drafts.

LeBron's hype was unreal. If social media was as prevalent when LeBron was in High School, he would generate far more headlines than Zion is.

ewing
02-14-2019, 10:51 PM
Lmao, this is ridiculous. Danny Ainge said there were only 3-4 players he wouldn't trade for a LeBron James.. Note: This was when LeBron was a junior in high school. A JUNIOR. That was when there was prime Shaq, Kobe, Timmy D, KG, Dirk, T-Mac, AI, Vince Carter, etc.,

There were some GM's who said they would have taken LeBron as #1 as a JUNIOR. Of course, the other guy was Yao Ming - who based off of his height, is understandable as to why he would be #1.

Antoine Walker, an All-Star that year, said to Paul Pierce that LeBron could be better than them. This was when LeBron was just finishing up his senior year. For an All-Star to say that to another All-Star about a player in High School is insane.

There is no comparison. Zion is playing on one of the most stacked starting team in NCAA history. Three players on that team are expected to be top five picks in many mock drafts.

LeBron's hype was unreal. If social media was as prevalent when LeBron was in High School, he would generate far more headlines than Zion is.

Zion is better at basketball. James is an attention whore who canít stop pimping himself so he would have generate more headlines if he had social media


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Vallejo Raiders
02-15-2019, 02:36 AM
If you're only hearing about Zion now it's because you weren't listening!

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 10:19 AM
Zion is better at basketball. James is an attention whore who canít stop pimping himself so he would have generate more headlines if he had social media


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If LeBron had gone to college for a year he would put up better numbers. His handles and attack the rim ability were easily better. Nothing in college would have stopped him. Nothing.

Rivera
02-15-2019, 10:35 AM
Who was the better shooter at 18?

tough

im gonna have to say lebron because I saw him trying more and have more confidence in it

the thing I LOVE about Zion is he already knows how to be super efficient and pick his spots on the floor. Unlike Ben, or young LBJ Zion isnt afraid to shoot a 3 if you leave him wide open. He isnt great at it, but at least he shows the D hes a threat.

I guess I like Zions shot selection a little more, but LBJ had more confidence in his J and was a more aggressive player in terms of # of shots

granted, Coach K could be holding Zion back in terms of # of shots as we have seen a different Coach (Coach Cal) hold back Anthony Davis and KAT for "the sake of the team" for everyone to shine

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 11:14 AM
tough

im gonna have to say lebron because I saw him trying more and have more confidence in it

the thing I LOVE about Zion is he already knows how to be super efficient and pick his spots on the floor. Unlike Ben, or young LBJ Zion isnt afraid to shoot a 3 if you leave him wide open. He isnt great at it, but at least he shows the D hes a threat.

I guess I like Zions shot selection a little more, but LBJ had more confidence in his J and was a more aggressive player in terms of # of shots

granted, Coach K could be holding Zion back in terms of # of shots as we have seen a different Coach (Coach Cal) hold back Anthony Davis and KAT for "the sake of the team" for everyone to shine

I can't give credit for guys being more efficient with selection today versus 16 years ago. That stuff wasn't on the scene in high school or college back then.

Fact is, LeBron would have absolutely destroyed college ball with his ability to handle the ball. Nobody could have stopped him, at all. But, you make a good point in that if Zion went to a school that wasn't loaded with guys needing shots, he probably would be putting up 35/12 right now haha.

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-15-2019, 11:16 AM
It's not even close offensively. Defensively though, I'd give the edge to Zion.

ewing
02-15-2019, 11:33 AM
If LeBron had gone to college for a year he would put up better numbers. His handles and attack the rim ability were easily better. Nothing in college would have stopped him. Nothing.

He wouldn't of even tried in college. He would have coasted b/c he had the #1 pick sewed up and was scared of injury. If LeBron was forced to do a year of college he would have coasted like Simmons and focused on his imagine/future business opportunities. He's a tool. Zion is a man

Rivera
02-15-2019, 11:40 AM
I can't give credit for guys being more efficient with selection today versus 16 years ago. That stuff wasn't on the scene in high school or college back then.

Fact is, LeBron would have absolutely destroyed college ball with his ability to handle the ball. Nobody could have stopped him, at all. But, you make a good point in that if Zion went to a school that wasn't loaded with guys needing shots, he probably would be putting up 35/12 right now haha.

the reason i am going to give him credit is because he has a teammate who doesnt listen about efficiency and is the ultimate volume scorer (RJ Barrett)

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 11:50 AM
He wouldn't of even tried in college. He would have coasted b/c he had the #1 pick sewed up and was scared of injury. If LeBron was forced to do a year of college he would have coasted like Simmons and focused on his imagine/future business opportunities. He's a tool. Zion is a man

god dude, just let it go. I imagine you fist pump everytime you hit "post reply" on an anti-bron post

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 11:52 AM
the reason i am going to give him credit is because he has a teammate who doesnt listen about efficiency and is the ultimate volume scorer (RJ Barrett)

so he embraces a necessity earlier than others. Good deal. Means he is willing to grow, which is great.

Imagine being a top 10 recruit though, you don't feel the need to change easy, since you ripped up everyone in sight for so long. Ben Simmons is still a horrific shooter for example.

Rivera
02-15-2019, 11:58 AM
so he embraces a necessity earlier than others. Good deal. Means he is willing to grow, which is great.

Imagine being a top 10 recruit though, you don't feel the need to change easy, since you ripped up everyone in sight for so long. Ben Simmons is still a horrific shooter for example.

feel like those are important traits for a star and a potential superstar

i hope he stays this humble, accepts the coaching and criticism and we see the best Zion possible

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-15-2019, 12:04 PM
Zion shouldn't be compared to Lebron. It's really not fair to Zion.

If you wanna compare him to KAT, Griffin, or even AD... then that's ok. But a Lebron comparison isn't fair. Anyone who really watches basketball should know that Lebron was a much better and more polished prospect than Zion is now.

ewing
02-15-2019, 12:14 PM
god dude, just let it go. I imagine you fist pump everytime you hit "post reply" on an anti-bron post

You are probably right he would have teamed up with other top recruits at a top program and given 100%. No "I" in LeBron

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 12:25 PM
You are probably right he would have teamed up with other top recruits at a top program and given 100%. No "I" in LeBron

well they all do that...

prodigy
02-15-2019, 01:37 PM
It's not even close offensively. Defensively though, I'd give the edge to Zion.

that's tough to say because Zion playing against college kids. Lebron "freshman" year was vs pros.

FYL_McVeezy
02-15-2019, 02:19 PM
Anyone who says Zion clearly didnít live through the HS LeBron years.....ĒThe Chosen OneĒ on the cover of Slam at 15.....he was seen as the potential next GOAT after MJ...once in a generation prospect is an understatement.

Zion has come closer to the once in a generation label then anyone in recent memory(Wiggins, etc) but heís not on Lebronís level as a prospect sorry

ewing
02-15-2019, 03:20 PM
Anyone who says Zion clearly didnít live through the HS LeBron years.....ĒThe Chosen OneĒ on the cover of Slam at 15.....he was seen as the potential next GOAT after MJ...once in a generation prospect is an understatement.

Zion has come closer to the once in a generation label then anyone in recent memory(Wiggins, etc) but heís not on Lebronís level as a prospect sorry

Wrong. I was alive


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Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 03:38 PM
Wrong. I was alive


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yea but were you livin'...

R. Johnson#3
02-15-2019, 05:25 PM
I think the thing people are overlooking is the era. In the internet era TONS of high school prospects get shown on youtube. It's much more saturated than it was in the early 2000's. Lebron definitely had the hype advantage 100% but I think Zion is the better player upon entering the NBA.

Lebron has the clear advantage in playmaking and there's no disputing that. As a high schooler he was already a great playmaker. That's not saying that Zion isn't though. They're both very similar in the fact that they don't have a jumper and can't hit free throws. When it comes to athleticism Zion has the clear cut advantage and that's what's most terrifying about him. Lebron was capable of giving you more but Zion has plenty of game with athleticism that I just haven't seen before. He will have no problem imposing his will on NBA competition.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 05:35 PM
I think the thing people are overlooking is the era. In the internet era TONS of high school prospects get shown on youtube. It's much more saturated than it was in the early 2000's. Lebron definitely had the hype advantage 100% but I think Zion is the better player upon entering the NBA.

Lebron has the clear advantage in playmaking and there's no disputing that. As a high schooler he was already a great playmaker. That's not saying that Zion isn't though. They're both very similar in the fact that they don't have a jumper and can't hit free throws. When it comes to athleticism Zion has the clear cut advantage and that's what's most terrifying about him. Lebron was capable of giving you more but Zion has plenty of game with athleticism that I just haven't seen before. He will have no problem imposing his will on NBA competition.

I don't agree with this. Zion has the burst, but people are clearly forgetting so did Lebron. The reason lebron is such a freak is he is 6'8", 260 lbs, and moves like a guard.

Look, I think Zion has all NBA potential, but Lebron was a can't miss, and as can't miss as it gets. His athleticism was, and is, off the charts. Go back and look at his highlights, his head was at the rim too. He didn't have the quick burst Zion has, but he had a better first step, and was strong as an ox with complete ball control. And end to end, I haven't seen anyone like LeBron. He is a freight train in the open floor, or was at least.

Rivera
02-15-2019, 05:41 PM
remember when LeBron was super young?

There was an argument that he was the fastest player in the league especially with the ball

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 05:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEq1n6yJGfc

first vid I found. LeBron at the exact same age. His lateral ability, passing ability, skill, are all superior easily. I get he doesn't slam as hard, but that doesn't equate to athleticism. At all.

You guys are starting to annoy me again with Zion.

LeBron is the best prospect the game has had in modern basketball. How easily some forget.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 05:42 PM
remember when LeBron was super young?

There was an argument that he was the fastest player in the league especially with the ball

I mean, he was. Hell he caught Iggy from behind with pro sprinter speed as a 32 year old.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 05:43 PM
Zion is a violent athlete, which always impresses people. Nique did that same ****.

R. Johnson#3
02-15-2019, 05:49 PM
I don't agree with this. Zion has the burst, but people are clearly forgetting so did Lebron. The reason lebron is such a freak is he is 6'8", 260 lbs, and moves like a guard.

Look, I think Zion has all NBA potential, but Lebron was a can't miss, and as can't miss as it gets. His athleticism was, and is, off the charts. Go back and look at his highlights, his head was at the rim too. He didn't have the quick burst Zion has, but he had a better first step, and was strong as an ox with complete ball control. And end to end, I haven't seen anyone like LeBron. He is a freight train in the open floor, or was at least.

I've been watching old Lebron HS tape because of Zion! There is absolutely no way that HS Lebron was as strong as Zion is now. I'll give you the first step but not the body control and overall strength. They both go directly at defences and finish over multiple guys but defenders just bounce off Zion like they do on a present day Lebron. This kid is ridiculously strong.

I too hadn't seen anyone like Lebron...until I saw Zion. He'll be a superstar but if he develops a knock down jumper then he'll be the next big thing. I'm well aware of how bold a statement this is.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2019, 06:03 PM
I've been watching old Lebron HS tape because of Zion! There is absolutely no way that HS Lebron was as strong as Zion is now. I'll give you the first step but not the body control and overall strength. They both go directly at defences and finish over multiple guys but defenders just bounce off Zion like they do on a present day Lebron. This kid is ridiculously strong.

I too hadn't seen anyone like Lebron...until I saw Zion. He'll be a superstar but if he develops a knock down jumper then he'll be the next big thing. I'm well aware of how bold a statement this is.

No, LeBron didn't have the mass Zion does. His straight line speed, body control, and hand-eye coordination were well above Zion at the same age though.

I mean, as talented as Zion is, LeBron is the best passing big man we have ever seen. Even at 17 he was making passes Zion never will. Zion doesn't have the ability to move out to the perimeter and be a full time ball handler like LeBron. Meaning, he isn't as good a prospect.

LeBron was a lock dude. He was pegged as a first ballot HOFer before he came into the NBA. Zion is amazing, but he isn't LeBron. He reminds me of if Barkley and Nique had a baby together. Also HOF, but not a guy we talk about with Jordan.

The fun part is Zion is an unknown. The chances are greater he disappoints than he becomes a top 3 player ever. And you know that already. Chances are, he lands in between, and is an awesome NBA player. But LeBron? Eh, let's pump the breaks dude.

IndyRealist
02-15-2019, 08:56 PM
I've been watching old Lebron HS tape because of Zion! There is absolutely no way that HS Lebron was as strong as Zion is now. I'll give you the first step but not the body control and overall strength. They both go directly at defences and finish over multiple guys but defenders just bounce off Zion like they do on a present day Lebron. This kid is ridiculously strong.

I too hadn't seen anyone like Lebron...until I saw Zion. He'll be a superstar but if he develops a knock down jumper then he'll be the next big thing. I'm well aware of how bold a statement this is.

Zion has 40lbs on rookie Lebron. Of course he's stronger. Lebron was more athletic.

ewing
02-15-2019, 09:05 PM
No, LeBron didn't have the mass Zion does. His straight line speed, body control, and hand-eye coordination were well above Zion at the same age though.

I mean, as talented as Zion is, LeBron is the best passing big man we have ever seen. Even at 17 he was making passes Zion never will. Zion doesn't have the ability to move out to the perimeter and be a full time ball handler like LeBron. Meaning, he isn't as good a prospect.

LeBron was a lock dude. He was pegged as a first ballot HOFer before he came into the NBA. Zion is amazing, but he isn't LeBron. He reminds me of if Barkley and Nique had a baby together. Also HOF, but not a guy we talk about with Jordan.

The fun part is Zion is an unknown. The chances are greater he disappoints than he becomes a top 3 player ever. And you know that already. Chances are, he lands in between, and is an awesome NBA player. But LeBron? Eh, let's pump the breaks dude.

Heís the best athlete Iíve seen since Bo Jackson and heís a basketball player. He might not be totally polished yet but he already has way more court awareness then Nique. I hope he doesnít get bigger bc he could lose agility naturally. Heís only 19 and guy fill out bt 19 and 25. How good a play maker he will be is also a question bc he plays on a very crowded court right now and it hard to judge but Iíve seen some real nice dimes


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JAZZNC
02-15-2019, 09:16 PM
seriously. How can people forget he was literally considered can't miss by age 15. Hell he was named the best high school player in the country as a junior. He was the "chosen one" as a kid, easily the greatest prospect we have come across.

It's why I kinda chuckle every year when people talk about these franchise changing players. Even Ben Simmons was getting the ignorant hype and its painfully obvious hes nowhere near LBJ level. But it happens every year and will continue.

ewing
02-15-2019, 10:11 PM
It's why I kinda chuckle every year when people talk about these franchise changing players. Even Ben Simmons was getting the ignorant hype and its painfully obvious hes nowhere near LBJ level. But it happens every year and will continue.

Luka is a franchise changing player. I donít think Simmons is by himself but he certainly a building block. Joel is definitely a franchise changing player. Hell I think your guy Rudy is franchise changing. I donít why you are chuckling.


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ChongInc.
02-15-2019, 10:19 PM
Zion reminds me of Griffin coming out.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2019, 12:51 AM
Heís the best athlete Iíve seen since Bo Jackson and heís a basketball player. He might not be totally polished yet but he already has way more court awareness then Nique. I hope he doesnít get bigger bc he could lose agility naturally. Heís only 19 and guy fill out bt 19 and 25. How good a play maker he will be is also a question bc he plays on a very crowded court right now and it hard to judge but Iíve seen some real nice dimes


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I get it. Still not the prospect LeBron was. And not as good at the same age. What happens in the future is unknown. Claiming he is a better prospect than LeBron, or equal for that matter (Bron is considered widely was the best basketball prospect of the last 40 years) is juat a reach is all. If you really think Zion will end up a top 2 player ever, I will grab the under on that dude.

ewing
02-16-2019, 01:13 AM
I get it. Still not the prospect LeBron was. And not as good at the same age. What happens in the future is unknown. Claiming he is a better prospect than LeBron, or equal for that matter (Bron is considered widely was the best basketball prospect of the last 40 years) is juat a reach is all. If you really think Zion will end up a top 2 player ever, I will grab the under on that dude.

Iíd vote against anyone including LeBron when he was 18 to be that good but there is a difference bt him and most highly regarded prospects. He is his own beast. Athletically he is unlike anyone. He not like Nique or Blake. He bigger faster and goes even higher, much higher. Bron and Shaq were one of a kind physically as well. The fact that he has that and is a basketball player is why he is getting this kind of hype. Rookie year I expect 18 and 8 with two blocks and two steals. I expect him to have moments where he creates pace and cracks games in quick burst of dominate play bc of athleticism the way Curry does with shooting. Iíd surprised with much less and wouldnít be shocked with more. Iíd actually like to see more of a selfish side bc heíll need it to be played through in close games but it took Bron a while to develop that too


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Hawkeye15
02-19-2019, 10:48 AM
Iíd vote against anyone including LeBron when he was 18 to be that good but there is a difference bt him and most highly regarded prospects. He is his own beast. Athletically he is unlike anyone. He not like Nique or Blake. He bigger faster and goes even higher, much higher. Bron and Shaq were one of a kind physically as well. The fact that he has that and is a basketball player is why he is getting this kind of hype. Rookie year I expect 18 and 8 with two blocks and two steals. I expect him to have moments where he creates pace and cracks games in quick burst of dominate play bc of athleticism the way Curry does with shooting. Iíd surprised with much less and wouldnít be shocked with more. Iíd actually like to see more of a selfish side bc heíll need it to be played through in close games but it took Bron a while to develop that too


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well, anything short of first ballot HOF will be a failure for you when it comes to Zion, clearly. I expect great things from him as well, but I also remember what LeBron was coming out of high school. I wish he had gone to college a year, it would have been funny.

IKnowHoops
02-19-2019, 11:03 AM
skill wise luka could be argued as goat prospect.

Hó- no

IKnowHoops
02-19-2019, 11:18 AM
He wouldn't of even tried in college. He would have coasted b/c he had the #1 pick sewed up and was scared of injury. If LeBron was forced to do a year of college he would have coasted like Simmons and focused on his imagine/future business opportunities. He's a tool. Zion is a man

Wow, your hate is insane lmao

IKnowHoops
02-19-2019, 11:32 AM
I think the thing people are overlooking is the era. In the internet era TONS of high school prospects get shown on youtube. It's much more saturated than it was in the early 2000's. Lebron definitely had the hype advantage 100% but I think Zion is the better player upon entering the NBA.

Lebron has the clear advantage in playmaking and there's no disputing that. As a high schooler he was already a great playmaker. That's not saying that Zion isn't though. They're both very similar in the fact that they don't have a jumper and can't hit free throws. When it comes to athleticism Zion has the clear cut advantage and that's what's most terrifying about him. Lebron was capable of giving you more but Zion has plenty of game with athleticism that I just haven't seen before. He will have no problem imposing his will on NBA competition.

Clear athletic advantage for Zion? WTF. Bro, I advise you to go back and watch rookie Lebron against nba players. Wow

IKnowHoops
02-19-2019, 11:48 AM
Heís the best athlete Iíve seen since Bo Jackson and heís a basketball player. He might not be totally polished yet but he already has way more court awareness then Nique. I hope he doesnít get bigger bc he could lose agility naturally. Heís only 19 and guy fill out bt 19 and 25. How good a play maker he will be is also a question bc he plays on a very crowded court right now and it hard to judge but Iíve seen some real nice dimes


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Wrong, heís the best athlete youíve seen since Lebron

Scoots
02-19-2019, 12:02 PM
Zion has 40lbs on rookie Lebron. Of course he's stronger. Lebron was more athletic.

When you factor mass in I'm not at all sure LeBron was more athletic. LeBron was more skilled in every part of the game though ... except maybe shooting.

Chronz
02-19-2019, 02:56 PM
When you factor mass in I'm not at all sure LeBron was more athletic. LeBron was more skilled in every part of the game though ... except maybe shooting.

Maybe? Is Zion already a good scorer from the perimeter?

IndyRealist
02-19-2019, 03:54 PM
When you factor mass in I'm not at all sure LeBron was more athletic. LeBron was more skilled in every part of the game though ... except maybe shooting.

All things being equal, 280lbs is not going to be as fast or agile as 240lbs. Stronger? Yes. Quicker? Unlikely.

tredigs
02-19-2019, 04:27 PM
When you factor mass in I'm not at all sure LeBron was more athletic. LeBron was more skilled in every part of the game though ... except maybe shooting.

They're both apex athletes. At each ones size, you can't be more athletic.

Not sure what your second comment is. Lebron was not a good shooter, but Lebron was better. As a defensive rebounder and defender Zion is superior. As an offensive rebounder and interior finisher Zion is superior. Lebron was a better ball handler and playmaker. Zion to me also has the leg up in some intangibles, and is already proving to be a night in/night out gamer/competitor, and a seemingly fantastic teammate. These things matter deeply when it comes to players who have all the talent.

He is going to be incredible, and is already a borderline NBA All Star level player. Where he eventually lands will depend on how his body holds up, if he develops a more reliable shot, and if he improves his BBIQ. Hopefully he has some smart vets around him, and a good coach/ownership group. If he gets all that, skies the limit.


But yeah, most importantly, he needs to stay healthy. He has already had one serious injury.

Hawkeye15
02-19-2019, 05:51 PM
question- if you had to take the over/under, is Zion going to have a better career than LeBron? Is he going to be ranked the better player at the end of his career?

That is your answer to this thread. Nobody came in more hyped than LeBron. Nobody.

Scoots
02-19-2019, 07:28 PM
All things being equal, 280lbs is not going to be as fast or agile as 240lbs. Stronger? Yes. Quicker? Unlikely.

Sure. But Zion's got a faster/larger vertical than LeBron did at that time so athleticism may favor Zion. Zion doesn't have the BB IQ LeBron had, not even close.

Scoots
02-19-2019, 07:29 PM
question- if you had to take the over/under, is Zion going to have a better career than LeBron? Is he going to be ranked the better player at the end of his career?

That is your answer to this thread. Nobody came in more hyped than LeBron. Nobody.

LeBron will be better.

Vampirate
02-19-2019, 08:38 PM
Put it this way.

I'm positive there have been more athletic players than Lebron.

I'm sure that there were players more skilled than Lebron.

I'm sure there were players touted as a higher BB IQ than Lebron.

How many players rank in the top 10 in all 3 of those categories?

ewing
02-19-2019, 09:13 PM
Sure. But Zion's got a faster/larger vertical than LeBron did at that time so athleticism may favor Zion. Zion doesn't have the BB IQ LeBron had, not even close.

LeBron is a dumbass.


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tredigs
02-19-2019, 09:58 PM
question- if you had to take the over/under, is Zion going to have a better career than LeBron? Is he going to be ranked the better player at the end of his career?

That is your answer to this thread. Nobody came in more hyped than LeBron. Nobody.

One thing has nothing to do with the other though. Lebron at worst has a top 5 career in history, so why would Zion be expected to exceed that? And yes, Lebron was the more hyped prospect. I watched at least a half dozen of his high school games, and knew we had the next great. Zion is not quite on that level as a prospect, but he's not thaaat far off, either. Definitely won't be shocked if he's better than LBJ was as a rookie (the question of this thread). The year at Duke helps. But I can't see his ceiling/longevity matching up. And that should not be any sort of expectation for him or anybody to be a top 5 All Time guy (granted, yes, that's what it was for Lebron).

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 10:54 AM
One thing has nothing to do with the other though. Lebron at worst has a top 5 career in history, so why would Zion be expected to exceed that? And yes, Lebron was the more hyped prospect. I watched at least a half dozen of his high school games, and knew we had the next great. Zion is not quite on that level as a prospect, but he's not thaaat far off, either. Definitely won't be shocked if he's better than LBJ was as a rookie (the question of this thread). The year at Duke helps. But I can't see his ceiling/longevity matching up. And that should not be any sort of expectation for him or anybody to be a top 5 All Time guy (granted, yes, that's what it was for Lebron).

LeBron was named Ohio Mr Basketball, and named Today All-USA first team, as a sophomore. The first player to ever do it. He was on SLAM, and SI, his junior year, and declared the best basketball player in the country. As a junior. He was the first junior, EVER, to be named Gatorade National Player of the Year. Again winning it his senior year.

There has never, ever, been as highly rated as a prospect as LeBron James, in modern basketball. Lew Alcindor is likely a close second, as an NBA prospect, because of his dominance in high school and college.

I just don't get how you people don't remember all of this. Seriously.

And no, they aren't exclusive conversations, prospect versus reality. If we EXPECT Zion to be a HOF'er, he will be measured immediately entering the league against guys like LeBron, Jabbar, Bird, etc.

So again, if you had to bet, will Zion match or eclipse LeBron's career, and/or career ranking? Because that is the baseline you are setting him on if you are even making an argument in this thread for Zion. I get Zion is a great prospect, but we as a society are always begging for the next great thing, and reach yearly. I am not calling Zion a reach, but he is 6'6", can't shoot, and in order to deal with the NBA, WILL need to improve a lot to make up for height, and the spacing in the NBA. LeBron was able to dominate quickly because he is taller, very strong, and handles/passes like a guard, something Zion will never do. So anyone banking on Zion to be a perennial all NBA player is expecting massive improvements in skill areas, across the board.

Rivera
02-20-2019, 11:16 AM
LeBron was named Ohio Mr Basketball, and named Today All-USA first team, as a sophomore. The first player to ever do it. He was on SLAM, and SI, his junior year, and declared the best basketball player in the country. As a junior. He was the first junior, EVER, to be named Gatorade National Player of the Year. Again winning it his senior year.

There has never, ever, been as highly rated as a prospect as LeBron James, in modern basketball. Lew Alcindor is likely a close second, as an NBA prospect, because of his dominance in high school and college.

I just don't get how you people don't remember all of this. Seriously.

And no, they aren't exclusive conversations, prospect versus reality. If we EXPECT Zion to be a HOF'er, he will be measured immediately entering the league against guys like LeBron, Jabbar, Bird, etc.

So again, if you had to bet, will Zion match or eclipse LeBron's career, and/or career ranking? Because that is the baseline you are setting him on if you are even making an argument in this thread for Zion. I get Zion is a great prospect, but we as a society are always begging for the next great thing, and reach yearly. I am not calling Zion a reach, but he is 6'6", can't shoot, and in order to deal with the NBA, WILL need to improve a lot to make up for height, and the spacing in the NBA. LeBron was able to dominate quickly because he is taller, very strong, and handles/passes like a guard, something Zion will never do. So anyone banking on Zion to be a perennial all NBA player is expecting massive improvements in skill areas, across the board.

not disagreeing with anything you are saying, just want to correct a few things


Zion was on the cover of Slam after his Sophmore season entering his junior year. same as lebron. granted never on the cover of SI (only SI Kids)

Zion has very impressive handles and passing ability. Not sure if you have seen them, but honestly, he may have more "moves" with the basketball than LBJ but LBJ had better control and IQ. Zion is a very flashy passer. Again, Lebrons IQ and anticipation put him ahead, but Zion can really pass.

Zion has had more competition for the best HS recruit in his class. Zion proved hes better than RJ once they went against better competition but RJ is being projected as an NBA all star

LBJs competition was Shannon Brown/Luol Deng/Ndui Ebi vs
Zions Competition RJ Barett/Cam Reddish/Nazir Little/Bol Bol

we will see how Zions class fairs but i remember LBJs HS class and the weak drafts in 04-05-06 when his peers started entering the league it was not impressive

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 11:36 AM
not disagreeing with anything you are saying, just want to correct a few things


Zion was on the cover of Slam after his Sophmore season entering his junior year. same as lebron. granted never on the cover of SI (only SI Kids)

Zion has very impressive handles and passing ability. Not sure if you have seen them, but honestly, he may have more "moves" with the basketball than LBJ but LBJ had better control and IQ. Zion is a very flashy passer. Again, Lebrons IQ and anticipation put him ahead, but Zion can really pass.

Zion has had more competition for the best HS recruit in his class. Zion proved hes better than RJ once they went against better competition but RJ is being projected as an NBA all star

LBJs competition was Shannon Brown/Luol Deng/Ndui Ebi vs
Zions Competition RJ Barett/Cam Reddish/Nazir Little/Bol Bol

we will see how Zions class fairs but i remember LBJs HS class and the weak drafts in 04-05-06 when his peers started entering the league it was not impressive

any my point, as always, is so? When it comes to unproven guys, how can you tell me they are better comp?

Zion's handles are fine, and his passing is fine, but LeBron was amazing at that age in that regard, well ahead of Zion. WELL ahead.

As I stated, it all boils down to this-if you really want to argue Zion here, you are basically saying he is a shoe in for the HOF, and will live on all NBA teams and win MVPs. Because that is exactly what the expectations of a young prospect named LeBron James were.

Imagine the coverage of a 17 year old James in today's social media/information age. Cmon. It would be nauseating.

Rivera
02-20-2019, 11:54 AM
any my point, as always, is so? When it comes to unproven guys, how can you tell me they are better comp?

Zion's handles are fine, and his passing is fine, but LeBron was amazing at that age in that regard, well ahead of Zion. WELL ahead.

As I stated, it all boils down to this-if you really want to argue Zion here, you are basically saying he is a shoe in for the HOF, and will live on all NBA teams and win MVPs. Because that is exactly what the expectations of a young prospect named LeBron James were.

Imagine the coverage of a 17 year old James in today's social media/information age. Cmon. It would be nauseating.

so you know where I stand on this. LBJ better prospect and a slightly better athlete. I have been very honest about Zions game and how it compares to LBJ so you know im not arguing Zion>LBJ

but I did want to point out a few things

and I can argue that Zions HS Class (RJ Barett/Cam Reddish/Nazir Little/Bol Bol) is performing better in college as a group than LBJs HS Class (Shannon Brown/Luol Deng/Ndui Ebi ) That you can compare

one thing I didnt realize until late CP3 was in LBJs HS class but ranked in the 20s, I only went top 5. If you put CP3 in that group, CP3 was a problem in college but RJ Barrett has better numbers in college than CP3 did.

IKnowHoops
02-20-2019, 11:57 AM
One thing has nothing to do with the other though. Lebron at worst has a top 5 career in history, so why would Zion be expected to exceed that? And yes, Lebron was the more hyped prospect. I watched at least a half dozen of his high school games, and knew we had the next great. Zion is not quite on that level as a prospect, but he's not thaaat far off, either. Definitely won't be shocked if he's better than LBJ was as a rookie (the question of this thread). The year at Duke helps. But I can't see his ceiling/longevity matching up. And that should not be any sort of expectation for him or anybody to be a top 5 All Time guy (granted, yes, that's what it was for Lebron).

Like you said, he cane in with top 5 ever expectations. I expect Zion to be in the Bron/Mike/Zion convo when itís all said and done. Athletically I think he is Brons equal and that alone makes you a top 10 lock if you just try

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 12:12 PM
so you know where I stand on this. LBJ better prospect and a slightly better athlete. I have been very honest about Zions game and how it compares to LBJ so you know im not arguing Zion>LBJ

but I did want to point out a few things

and I can argue that Zions HS Class (RJ Barett/Cam Reddish/Nazir Little/Bol Bol) is performing better in college as a group than LBJs HS Class (Shannon Brown/Luol Deng/Ndui Ebi ) That you can compare

one thing I didnt realize until late CP3 was in LBJs HS class but ranked in the 20s, I only went top 5. If you put CP3 in that group, CP3 was a problem in college but RJ Barrett has better numbers in college than CP3 did.

what was ahead of LeBron, when he was named high school player of the year as a Junior? How about sophomore, when he was named 1st team All-USA?

I am not really concerned with high school awards, but since you are using it I am just curious. Guys like LeBron and Zion would have ripped up any high school kids, any year, any time.

Rivera
02-20-2019, 12:22 PM
what was ahead of LeBron, when he was named high school player of the year as a Junior? How about sophomore, when he was named 1st team All-USA?

I am not really concerned with high school awards, but since you are using it I am just curious. Guys like LeBron and Zion would have ripped up any high school kids, any year, any time.

Zion was a member of Team USA as a Junior, so not to far off.

just trying to use an apples to apples comparison vs an apples to oranges and be as transparent as possible

comparing LBJs HS colleagues vs Zions colleagues

comparing those same talents when they went to college vs Zions HS class and how they are fairing right now in college

my point was Zion is in a projected better class of talent with his HS peers vs LBJ did so you can actually debate and see why Zion wasnt ranked #1 out of HS. Their was also a narrative about Zion that hurt his case but that narrative has been disproven about Zion that "hes only a dunker". Hes proven hes more than that.

With the BBall HOF being the joke that it is and the talent Zion has. Zion has DPOY potential, and pereniall all star potential. If thats the case, hes a lock for the HOF especially with their standards.

granted, a lot of things could impact potential, but thats really the consensus among all pundits

where they take it to far is hes better than LBJ or as good. Thats where I agree with you that we do exaggerate Zion and forget how prized a prospect LBJ was.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 12:52 PM
Zion was a member of Team USA as a Junior, so not to far off.

just trying to use an apples to apples comparison vs an apples to oranges and be as transparent as possible

comparing LBJs HS colleagues vs Zions colleagues

comparing those same talents when they went to college vs Zions HS class and how they are fairing right now in college

my point was Zion is in a projected better class of talent with his HS peers vs LBJ did so you can actually debate and see why Zion wasnt ranked #1 out of HS. Their was also a narrative about Zion that hurt his case but that narrative has been disproven about Zion that "hes only a dunker". Hes proven hes more than that.

With the BBall HOF being the joke that it is and the talent Zion has. Zion has DPOY potential, and pereniall all star potential. If thats the case, hes a lock for the HOF especially with their standards.

granted, a lot of things could impact potential, but thats really the consensus among all pundits

where they take it to far is hes better than LBJ or as good. Thats where I agree with you that we do exaggerate Zion and forget how prized a prospect LBJ was.

well, we aren't far off from a "could Duke win NBA games" thread. So it happens all the time, especially when an exciting prospect flares up. Zion's physical abilities, and size, are just too much for his peers. He will face bigger, stronger, smarter guys in the NBA. For every Barkley (6'5" guy who can dominate inside), there are 100 Corlis Williamson's. While I am certain Zion will be a really good NBA player, let's not pretend he doesn't have quite a bit of development ahead of him to reach the status he is already being given here.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 12:54 PM
like, I keep watching that close out from Zion where he covered 15 feet and blocked a 3 attempt, just mesmerized. But then I remember, in the NBA, if he closed out like that, he is either fouling the guy or giving up a 5-4 on defense because he is out of the play. And I realize he will learn all that, and it's better to be able to do that and rarely need it than not be able to do it at all for sure.

tredigs
02-20-2019, 01:41 PM
LeBron was named Ohio Mr Basketball, and named Today All-USA first team, as a sophomore. The first player to ever do it. He was on SLAM, and SI, his junior year, and declared the best basketball player in the country. As a junior. He was the first junior, EVER, to be named Gatorade National Player of the Year. Again winning it his senior year.

There has never, ever, been as highly rated as a prospect as LeBron James, in modern basketball. Lew Alcindor is likely a close second, as an NBA prospect, because of his dominance in high school and college.

I just don't get how you people don't remember all of this. Seriously.

And no, they aren't exclusive conversations, prospect versus reality. If we EXPECT Zion to be a HOF'er, he will be measured immediately entering the league against guys like LeBron, Jabbar, Bird, etc.

So again, if you had to bet, will Zion match or eclipse LeBron's career, and/or career ranking? Because that is the baseline you are setting him on if you are even making an argument in this thread for Zion. I get Zion is a great prospect, but we as a society are always begging for the next great thing, and reach yearly. I am not calling Zion a reach, but he is 6'6", can't shoot, and in order to deal with the NBA, WILL need to improve a lot to make up for height, and the spacing in the NBA. LeBron was able to dominate quickly because he is taller, very strong, and handles/passes like a guard, something Zion will never do. So anyone banking on Zion to be a perennial all NBA player is expecting massive improvements in skill areas, across the board.

Did you read a word I wrote, or mean to quote somebody else? You basically just extrapolated on the hype comments I made on Lebron while acting like I had the opposite take. You're writing strawmans left and right.

As for your analysis of Zion, I don't agree what so ever. He needs to improve, but much of those improvements will be simply how to best read opposing teams sets and exploit them. His skillset will likely improve as he is, you know, 18, but it is already robust enough to compete at an extremely high level in the NBA. It's much, much more than bully ball. Dude is out here literally breaking college advanced stats, and about to enter an NBA that is all about transition, space and ball movement. He is going to eat teams up in a very quick amount of time.

tredigs
02-20-2019, 01:43 PM
2x

tredigs
02-20-2019, 01:59 PM
like, I keep watching that close out from Zion where he covered 15 feet and blocked a 3 attempt, just mesmerized. But then I remember, in the NBA, if he closed out like that, he is either fouling the guy or giving up a 5-4 on defense because he is out of the play. And I realize he will learn all that, and it's better to be able to do that and rarely need it than not be able to do it at all for sure.

All that you should take from that play is that it was a broken play and he blocked his teammates man 3pt shot from a distance that no college or NBA player would ever expect. Highlights his defensive hustle and athleticism, which are two things that will be a major thorn in opposing offenses for the next decade in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 02:00 PM
answer is LeBron

Rivera
02-20-2019, 02:00 PM
well, we aren't far off from a "could Duke win NBA games" thread. So it happens all the time, especially when an exciting prospect flares up. Zion's physical abilities, and size, are just too much for his peers. He will face bigger, stronger, smarter guys in the NBA. For every Barkley (6'5" guy who can dominate inside), there are 100 Corlis Williamson's. While I am certain Zion will be a really good NBA player, let's not pretend he doesn't have quite a bit of development ahead of him to reach the status he is already being given here.

im still not off that bandwagon btw. I still believe this current Duke team could win at least 10 games against real NBA teams.

its basketball. Talent rises to the top, teams get hot and cold, Duke has a great head coach, 3 potential all stars, play great D and they have great chemistry.

tredigs
02-20-2019, 02:10 PM
answer is LeBron

To what though? The question of this thread is essentially, "Who will be the better player as a rookie?", not any of the other stuff you're bringing up. And I could very easily see Zion having a better rookie year than Lebron. The rest is a much tougher roadmap of course.

valade16
02-20-2019, 02:32 PM
Did you read a word I wrote, or mean to quote somebody else? You basically just extrapolated on the hype comments I made on Lebron while acting like I had the opposite take. You're writing strawmans left and right.

As for your analysis of Zion, I don't agree what so ever. He needs to improve, but much of those improvements will be simply how to best read opposing teams sets and exploit them. His skillset will likely improve as he is, you know, 18, but it is already robust enough to compete at an extremely high level in the NBA. It's much, much more than bully ball. Dude is out here literally breaking college advanced stats, and about to enter an NBA that is all about transition, space and ball movement. He is going to eat teams up in a very quick amount of time.

I was curious what you mean and so I looked it up.

His PER is 42.3. His WS/40 is .366. His BPM is 21.4.

All those are the highest ever, though to be fair college advanced stats only go back to 2010-2011. Still, for perspective the next highest BPM's of all-time are:

Anthony Davis
Karl Anthony-Towns
Victor Oladipo


Dude is just destroying people.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 02:48 PM
To what though? The question of this thread is essentially, "Who will be the better player as a rookie?", not any of the other stuff you're bringing up. And I could very easily see Zion having a better rookie year than Lebron. The rest is a much tougher roadmap of course.

I mean, Blake Griffin had a better rookie year than 18 year old LeBron. So?

If the actual question is who will be the better rookie, then sure, a guy given an extra year of college development has an upper hand. If we are asking who the better prospect was, it's LeBron. If we are asking who will have the better career, I will take LeBron in a bet all day every day.

LeBron was given the franchise keys day 1, forced to learn by mistakes, as the guy. His leap into year 2, and then 3, cemented his future. In all reality, LeBron's rookie year wasn't even that mind blowing, so if we are isolating the single year in LeBron's entire life where he wasn't totally dominant, YA GOT ME!

valade16
02-20-2019, 02:58 PM
I mean, Blake Griffin had a better rookie year than 18 year old LeBron. So?

If the actual question is who will be the better rookie, then sure, a guy given an extra year of college development has an upper hand. If we are asking who the better prospect was, it's LeBron. If we are asking who will have the better career, I will take LeBron in a bet all day every day.

LeBron was given the franchise keys day 1, forced to learn by mistakes, as the guy. His leap into year 2, and then 3, cemented his future. In all reality, LeBron's rookie year wasn't even that mind blowing, so if we are isolating the single year in LeBron's entire life where he wasn't totally dominant, YA GOT ME!

I remember watching a LeBron High School basketball game on ESPN. Not like a McDonald's HS All-American game or something, just a regular season St. Mary's game.

LeBron is the most hyped prospect of my lifetime, in probably any sport.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 03:02 PM
I remember watching a LeBron High School basketball game on ESPN. Not like a McDonald's HS All-American game or something, just a regular season St. Mary's game.

LeBron is the most hyped prospect of my lifetime, in probably any sport.

His high school team played at a University in Dayton, because tickets were so crazy.

Again, I get the excitement over Zion, I do. But this all pales in comparison to when James was coming out. And for a good reason. Zion is huge muscle wise, but he will never have perimeter guard skills/ability that LeBron does. What makes LeBron what is he is he is the size of a PF (taller than Zion easily), but can handle, pass, and run a team like a PG. On top of that, he is supernatural when it comes to injury prior to this season.

I love Zion, but the love for him is so unearned at this point. And I remember people despising James in 2001-03' for the same reason, except he was clearly the better prospect.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 03:05 PM
A more legit question might be is it Zion, or Anthony Davis that is the best prospect of the last 10 years?

tredigs
02-20-2019, 03:15 PM
I mean, Blake Griffin had a better rookie year than 18 year old LeBron. So?

If the actual question is who will be the better rookie, then sure, a guy given an extra year of college development has an upper hand. If we are asking who the better prospect was, it's LeBron. If we are asking who will have the better career, I will take LeBron in a bet all day every day.

LeBron was given the franchise keys day 1, forced to learn by mistakes, as the guy. His leap into year 2, and then 3, cemented his future. In all reality, LeBron's rookie year wasn't even that mind blowing, so if we are isolating the single year in LeBron's entire life where he wasn't totally dominant, YA GOT ME!

Well, it was literally the only question the OP asked, and I never addressed any of the other **** you started going off about. So, just making sure that you acknowledge your post of strawmans that you quoted mine with. I went ahead and gave a mini analysis of where Zion could go as well, and I certainly don't see it as Lebron. But, I see it as far, far better than you have him. You are extremely low on him, and I think it's a direct result of being a backlash of the extreme hype he is getting.

tredigs
02-20-2019, 03:20 PM
I was curious what you mean and so I looked it up.

His PER is 42.3. His WS/40 is .366. His BPM is 21.4.

All those are the highest ever, though to be fair college advanced stats only go back to 2010-2011. Still, for perspective the next highest BPM's of all-time are:

Anthony Davis
Karl Anthony-Towns
Victor Oladipo


Dude is just destroying people.

Yeah, and honestly his numbers could easily be better. He's deferential at times to lesser players almost to a fault. Especially to Barett (who came into the season as the consensus #1 player/pick). It's still a great sign, though. This kid is very likely going to be an incredible teammate and the type of guy everyone will want to be on the court with.

valade16
02-20-2019, 03:22 PM
His high school team played at a University in Dayton, because tickets were so crazy.

Again, I get the excitement over Zion, I do. But this all pales in comparison to when James was coming out. And for a good reason. Zion is huge muscle wise, but he will never have perimeter guard skills/ability that LeBron does. What makes LeBron what is he is he is the size of a PF (taller than Zion easily), but can handle, pass, and run a team like a PG. On top of that, he is supernatural when it comes to injury prior to this season.

I love Zion, but the love for him is so unearned at this point. And I remember people despising James in 2001-03' for the same reason, except he was clearly the better prospect.

I disagree that the love for Zion is unearned at this point. He was getting love when he did a 43" vertical. And then he went out and destroyed college basketball. I know you don't put any credence on college dominance, but most others at least recognize when someone is dominating it to a degree other elite prospects and future NBA stars haven't.


So when you say his praise at this point is unearned I ask: what else could he have done? There's really nothing he can do to have earned this praise more. It's not like he could be better, he's already the best college player in the game by a mile and advanced stats wise the best since they started keeping track of them. Should he have gone to Europe and started destroying Euroleague talent instead of doing his required 1 year of college? Would you appreciate him more then?

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 03:28 PM
Well, it was literally the only question the OP asked, and I never addressed any of the other **** you started going off about. So, just making sure that you acknowledge your post of strawmans that you quoted mine with. I went ahead and gave a mini analysis of where Zion could go as well, and I certainly don't see it as Lebron. But, I see it as far, far better than you have him. You are extremely low on him, and I think it's a direct result of being a backlash of the extreme hype he is getting.

I am always wait and see with college prospects, you know my stance on that. And I have stated I think he will be an excellent player.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 03:34 PM
I disagree that the love for Zion is unearned at this point. He was getting love when he did a 43" vertical. And then he went out and destroyed college basketball. I know you don't put any credence on college dominance, but most others at least recognize when someone is dominating it to a degree other elite prospects and future NBA stars haven't.


So when you say his praise at this point is unearned I ask: what else could he have done? There's really nothing he can do to have earned this praise more. It's not like he could be better, he's already the best college player in the game by a mile and advanced stats wise the best since they started keeping track of them. Should he have gone to Europe and started destroying Euroleague talent instead of doing his required 1 year of college? Would you appreciate him more then?

I had a post typed then accidentally deleted..ugh

so a few stats do tend to translate over and Zion is very good at all of them. I do think he will be an excellent player.

His praise is unearned in that we have posters here making room in the HOF already. Let the dude play in the NBA first. Seriously.

valade16
02-20-2019, 03:38 PM
I had a post typed then accidentally deleted..ugh

so a few stats do tend to translate over and Zion is very good at all of them. I do think he will be an excellent player.

His praise is unearned in that we have posters here making room in the HOF already. Let the dude play in the NBA first. Seriously.

On that I agree. Even if he plays in the NBA at the caliber of a Hall of Fame player initially, it's no guarantee he'll get to the hall. You need some level of longevity. Him being a beast for 2-3 years won't get it done.

Chronz
02-20-2019, 03:53 PM
To what though? The question of this thread is essentially, "Who will be the better player as a rookie?", not any of the other stuff you're bringing up. And I could very easily see Zion having a better rookie year than Lebron. The rest is a much tougher roadmap of course.

LeBron was a rookie in the final year of the old rules. Zion is entering a far friendlier environment. Rookie Bron would tear this league up more too

tredigs
02-20-2019, 05:05 PM
I am always wait and see with college prospects, you know my stance on that. And I have stated I think he will be an excellent player.
Yeah I know, but that's less fun if you just have to see it to know it haha. I very, very, very rarely am extremely high on 18 year olds. Zion is one of the exceptions. Checks all the character boxes, which is just as important.


LeBron was a rookie in the final year of the old rules. Zion is entering a far friendlier environment. Rookie Bron would tear this league up more too

yeah that's a fair point, but even with that being said, I think Zion will be entering at a higher level of 2 way impact then Lebron did.

Hawkeye15
02-20-2019, 05:15 PM
Yeah I know, but that's less fun if you just have to see it to know it haha. I very, very, very rarely am extremely high on 18 year olds. Zion is one of the exceptions. Checks all the character boxes, which is just as important.



yeah that's a fair point, but even with that being said, I think Zion will be entering at a higher level of 2 way impact then Lebron did.

Zion is extremely exciting. Physical gifts combined with relentless effort. We as humans are always wanting "the next thing", whether it's a house, job, car, etc. So it's only natural man. I feel like I try and counter balance that, to a fault.

Hell I hope he is the next great, how lucky would I be to have watched Jordan, LeBron, and then the next top 5 player ever?

tredigs
02-20-2019, 09:56 PM
Zion is extremely exciting. Physical gifts combined with relentless effort. We as humans are always wanting "the next thing", whether it's a house, job, car, etc. So it's only natural man. I feel like I try and counter balance that, to a fault.

Hell I hope he is the next great, how lucky would I be to have watched Jordan, LeBron, and then the next top 5 player ever?
I generally am the same way as you. I was team Lebron before he entered the NBA, and doubled down defending him after he was a pariah during the Heat move. Then, after 2013 and the nonstop avalanche of praise, I felt like I needed to jump back on the other side on here to help balance that tide.

With Zion, there's no point in not getting on the tide. I've been following him for years, but definitely had some questions on how he would look against/alongside other top 5 prospects. And, let's just say everything has been answered. Barring injury, this is one of those guys where I can unequivocally say I am watching a lock future Hall Of Famer. Barring Duncan and Lebron, I can't remember thinking that about a guy before he was in the NBA (knew Duncan was a lock Hall Of Famer as a sophomore, but he stayed).

ewing
02-20-2019, 10:16 PM
LeBron was named Ohio Mr Basketball, and named Today All-USA first team, as a sophomore. The first player to ever do it. He was on SLAM, and SI, his junior year, and declared the best basketball player in the country. As a junior. He was the first junior, EVER, to be named Gatorade National Player of the Year. Again winning it his senior year.

There has never, ever, been as highly rated as a prospect as LeBron James, in modern basketball. Lew Alcindor is likely a close second, as an NBA prospect, because of his dominance in high school and college.

I just don't get how you people don't remember all of this. Seriously.

And no, they aren't exclusive conversations, prospect versus reality. If we EXPECT Zion to be a HOF'er, he will be measured immediately entering the league against guys like LeBron, Jabbar, Bird, etc.

So again, if you had to bet, will Zion match or eclipse LeBron's career, and/or career ranking? Because that is the baseline you are setting him on if you are even making an argument in this thread for Zion. I get Zion is a great prospect, but we as a society are always begging for the next great thing, and reach yearly. I am not calling Zion a reach, but he is 6'6", can't shoot, and in order to deal with the NBA, WILL need to improve a lot to make up for height, and the spacing in the NBA. LeBron was able to dominate quickly because he is taller, very strong, and handles/passes like a guard, something Zion will never do. So anyone banking on Zion to be a perennial all NBA player is expecting massive improvements in skill areas, across the board.

Sorry misread your post

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Lil Rhody
02-20-2019, 10:23 PM
Of course he gets hurt when I out money on Duke wtf

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