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View Full Version : So we can now just ignore the obvious BS that is going on?



More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 05:37 AM
Silver stepped in to stop hinkie and the sixers which whatever i get it but how many times is magic allowed to pull this crap for a star before the league comes down on them? I told Tre this would happen and said it in the game thread... I am not a pelicans fan and dont blame the lakers fans because **** it I would be ecstatic but this sucks if you are a small market team. I mean when will the league decide to really make a statement to a big market team to stop this ********? Most of us should have seen this coming from the time lebron pulled this crap with AD.... The league will do nothing... Its 100 percent why i stated the pelicans should trade him asap before this crap came to be and now if i am the pelicans i call his bluff.


[Wojnarowski] Multiple league sources expect the agent and star to soon deliver word throughout the league that Davis' preferred destination is the Lakers and he'll become a rental player until 2020 with a trade anywhere else.

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 06:00 AM
Why are people complaining about this? Magic isn't doing anything wrong. Players contact players, those players then speak to their GM and give them ideas. The rules of tampering won't prevent this at all. LeBron runs Rich Paul and that means, by extension, Rich Paul tells him all that's going on around the NBA trade market. This was ingenius by LeBron. Small market teams aren't paying the big dollars a large market team is paying so them complaining when they squandered their talent is no ones fault but their own. They had numerous chances to buff up the Pelicans and failed time after time. Why waste your career playing for a franchise that will end up turning your career into a joke? Yeah, AD wants to go to the Lakers.. that actually helps the other teams. I'm suspecting their response in putting that AD wanted to go to the Lakers is due to the Pelicans thinking they still have leverage. Well, they really don't have much leverage. AD wants to leave and no one wants to play for the Pelicans. Take the young players Lakers has to offer and move on. Letting Rondo walk for $9 million but choosing to pay Solomon Hill $49 million for four years after he averaged 4 points, 3 rebounds, and 1 assist for the Pacers is quite honestly a pure representation of how bad this franchise is at running an NBA team.

More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 06:03 AM
Why are people complaining about this? Magic isn't doing anything wrong. Players contact players, those players then speak to their GM and give them ideas. The rules of tampering won't prevent this at all. LeBron runs Rich Paul and that means, by extension, Rich Paul tells him all that's going on around the NBA trade market. This was ingenius by LeBron. Small market teams aren't paying the big dollars a large market team is paying so them complaining when they squandered their talent is no ones fault but their own. They had numerous chances to buff up the Pelicans and failed time after time. Why waste your career playing for a franchise that will end up turning your career into a joke? Yeah, AD wants to go to the Lakers.. that actually helps the other teams. I'm suspecting their response in putting that AD wanted to go to the Lakers is due to the Pelicans thinking they still have leverage. Well, they really don't have much leverage. AD wants to leave and no one wants to play for the Pelicans. Take the young players Lakers has to offer and move on. Letting Rondo walk for $9 million but choosing to pay Solomon Hill $49 million for four years after he averaged 4 points, 3 rebounds, and 1 assist for the Pacers is quite honestly a pure representation of how bad this franchise is at running an NBA team.

the **** do you mean???

The NBA fined the Los Angeles Lakers $500,000 on Thursday for violating the league's anti-tampering rules. The fine appears to be a result of the investigation into Los Angeles' contact with Paul George while he was under contract with the Indiana Pacers.Aug 31, 2017

my bad he wised up now and allowed lebron to take AD out to dinner and pull this dumb ****... Personally again whatever gets lebron rings and beats the warriors makes me happy but this destroys small market teams and a team like the lakers keep getting slaps on the wrists... its getting old.


hey people now you ****ing see why I am all for teams tanking. This right here is why. A team can try their hardest to build their ***** off the right way like the pacers/raptors but what chance do they have against teams like the warriors and now the lakers just because stars want to play with other top stars and take the easy road.

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 06:38 AM
the **** do you mean???

The NBA fined the Los Angeles Lakers $500,000 on Thursday for violating the league's anti-tampering rules. The fine appears to be a result of the investigation into Los Angeles' contact with Paul George while he was under contract with the Indiana Pacers.Aug 31, 2017

my bad he wised up now and allowed lebron to take AD out to dinner and pull this dumb ****... Personally again whatever gets lebron rings and beats the warriors makes me happy but this destroys small market teams and a team like the lakers keep getting slaps on the wrists... its getting old.


hey people now you ****ing see why I am all for teams tanking. This right here is why. A team can try their hardest to build their ***** off the right way like the pacers/raptors but what chance do they have against teams like the warriors and now the lakers just because stars want to play with other top stars and take the easy road.

How does that PG situation relate to this? You're trying to connect them both for no reason. Like when Philly failed to tell New Orleans about Jrue Holiday's injuries before trading him and was fined $3 million. Why would I somehow use that and connect it to whatever they are doing with Fultz? It's not even remotely similar. Magic was fined for tampering and learned his lesson. Pelicans are just upset because they don't want to lose their best asset. Yeah.. LeBron gets to go to dinner with AD. How many times did Ben Simmons and LeBron go out to dinner? I'm willing to bet more times than LeBron has ever even met AD. Not sure why you're getting emotional here and just ranting. Lakers didn't get a prime free agent for like what? 5-6 years? Knicks? When was the last time they got a superstar? What about Celtics? When did they get a superstar to sign there? Hayward? Lol. Pelicans screwed up. It's their fault. Wonder why OKC was able to snag PG? Because our management isn't dysfunctional. Maybe these small market teams need to figure out why they suck before they start asking why players are leaving.

Heediot
01-29-2019, 07:15 AM
I think the Pels are going to spite the Lakers. No guarantee AD doesn't enjoy his new destination and re-ups there.
Lakers have to offer everyone except LeBron and the Pels might cave in. I think they'll go elsewhere if they are looking into some illegal activity on the Lakers. That's already a bad omen for a trade with LAL.

I think stars have too much power and leverage. Time to eliminate the max so teaming up takes some serious financial sacrifices. Right now these stars are having their cake and where they want to enjoy that cake.

Tg11
01-29-2019, 07:45 AM
I think the Pels are going to spite the Lakers. No guarantee AD doesn't enjoy his new destination and re-ups there.
Lakers have to offer everyone except LeBron and the Pels might cave in. I think they'll go elsewhere if they are looking into some illegal activity on the Lakers. That's already a bad omen for a trade with LAL.

I think stars have too much power and leverage. Time to eliminate the max so teaming up takes some serious financial sacrifices. Right now these stars are having their cake and where they want to enjoy that cake.

Can I get an Amen bruh

More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 08:23 AM
I think the Pels are going to spite the Lakers. No guarantee AD doesn't enjoy his new destination and re-ups there.
Lakers have to offer everyone except LeBron and the Pels might cave in. I think they'll go elsewhere if they are looking into some illegal activity on the Lakers. That's already a bad omen for a trade with LAL.

I think stars have too much power and leverage. Time to eliminate the max so teaming up takes some serious financial sacrifices. Right now these stars are having their cake and where they want to enjoy that cake.

i 100 percent agree... this **** is getting old.

zookman65
01-29-2019, 08:31 AM
i 100 percent agree... this **** is getting old.

What is your suggestion? Do away with free agency? N.O. obviously didn't do much to build a winner around him. All of us in our personal life do what we think is best for us e.g. moving from a small town/company to a large city/larger company for a better opportunity.

warfelg
01-29-2019, 08:38 AM
I think stars have too much power and leverage. Time to eliminate the max so teaming up takes some serious financial sacrifices. Right now these stars are having their cake and where they want to enjoy that cake.

Amen to this to the 100th degree.

And I would put out there too if people like players teaming up like this, lets just contract the 10 smallest markets than and have a 20 team league. Then it will be easier for teams to have 2-3 stars each.

FWIW I don't think it's that the league is too big.

The true problem here is as you pointed out Heediot, too much leverage on the agent and player side. Way too much. There's got to be a way for teams to have better leverage in keeping players. I've dived in before that the soft cap/luxury tax/bird rights make it too easy for good teams to continually keep all these guys. Especially when you add in the 6 different 'exemptions' teams can use.

I know it's different sport, but before the 2004 season, the Red Sox agreed to a trade for Alex Rodriguez but he gave up like $5mil per year to help the Sox stay under the MLB tax. And the MLBPA threw the worlds biggest fit that a player was giving up money and it hurt the future earning prospects of players. And the MLBPA WON that argument and the trade was nullified.

Where was the NBPA when players have taken cuts to play on better teams? Why don't they have an issue with it? Because the people in charge is complacent in this happening. They don't care about the NBA and it's future. They care about here and now and themselves. And IMO that's a HUGE problem for the NBA that it's current crop of NBPA leadership cares more about themselves than they do the future.

warfelg
01-29-2019, 08:46 AM
What is your suggestion? Do away with free agency? N.O. obviously didn't do much to build a winner around him. All of us in our personal life do what we think is best for us e.g. moving from a small town/company to a large city/larger company for a better opportunity.

Then just cut out the 10 smallest markets from the NBA. Don't even bother with them.

What's going to be next? Players want to be where it's warm? So cut out all the northern cities.

Have an NBA with just teams in SF, LA, PHX, DAL, Hou, ATL, MIA?

Really the NBA has to figure out a way to bring better balance and put more power back to the teams control over agents/players. Yea the players can still request trades, but if the teams had better control over what goes on it would help.

And frankly I don't think that people have such a huge issue with him wanting out of NO. Yes they have done a horrible job in building a team around him. BUT that doesn't mean he should be able to put the Pel's in such a corner over trading him that it's an effective league wide tampering that it's a near guarantee that no matter what happens he's going to LA.

That's the part that people are going to tire of sooner rather than later. Like why should fans have any loyalty if the players won't? So if as a fan I know not to get attached to a player, why should I keep caring about the team? Especially if the players want to keep on teaming up in certain cities. We might be able to have a good team once every 5-6 years, but won't have a shot at a title. Fans lose interest in that.

smith&wesson
01-29-2019, 10:21 AM
The league should just shrink to about 24 teams. . Because teams like the Pelicans are never going to be susscesful and just simply donít matter at all... Grizzlies, Hornets, Kings, Pelicans, heíll even the Raptors are gonna lose Leonard next year and be errelevant again for another 20 years...

mike_noodles
01-29-2019, 11:23 AM
The NBA is the worst for this by far. So many whining unhappy players.

Scoots
01-29-2019, 11:55 AM
Amen to this to the 100th degree.

And I would put out there too if people like players teaming up like this, lets just contract the 10 smallest markets than and have a 20 team league. Then it will be easier for teams to have 2-3 stars each.

FWIW I don't think it's that the league is too big.

The true problem here is as you pointed out Heediot, too much leverage on the agent and player side. Way too much. There's got to be a way for teams to have better leverage in keeping players. I've dived in before that the soft cap/luxury tax/bird rights make it too easy for good teams to continually keep all these guys. Especially when you add in the 6 different 'exemptions' teams can use.

I know it's different sport, but before the 2004 season, the Red Sox agreed to a trade for Alex Rodriguez but he gave up like $5mil per year to help the Sox stay under the MLB tax. And the MLBPA threw the worlds biggest fit that a player was giving up money and it hurt the future earning prospects of players. And the MLBPA WON that argument and the trade was nullified.

Where was the NBPA when players have taken cuts to play on better teams? Why don't they have an issue with it? Because the people in charge is complacent in this happening. They don't care about the NBA and it's future. They care about here and now and themselves. And IMO that's a HUGE problem for the NBA that it's current crop of NBPA leadership cares more about themselves than they do the future.

Part of the issue is that you want teams to be more able to keep their players, but those same rules allow good teams to keep their players too.

The NBAPA does tell their players to go for the maximum money they can, but they can't force them to do so. And really none of this is new, what is new is that the Spurs proved that small market teams can do it too.

TheDish87
01-29-2019, 12:05 PM
Remember when George was a lock to sign in LA? good times

tp13baby
01-29-2019, 12:19 PM
The max has low key ruined the league. If you keep the max contract, any max given after that should have serious taxes implications. Now not to ruin small market teams, if they are drafted by the team they sign with no taxes at all.

I may be a fan of a small market team but the NBA is kind of a joke when it comes to stars.

tp13baby
01-29-2019, 12:21 PM
Remember when George was a lock to sign in LA? good times

He regrets not going to LA though. His statements about LA makes it clear his heart is there.

warfelg
01-29-2019, 12:23 PM
Part of the issue is that you want teams to be more able to keep their players, but those same rules allow good teams to keep their players too.

The NBAPA does tell their players to go for the maximum money they can, but they can't force them to do so. And really none of this is new, what is new is that the Spurs proved that small market teams can do it too.

If that's the counter argument to doing away with certain exemptions, tighter caps, and restriction of bird rights; I can live with it.

More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 08:22 PM
Why are people complaining about this? Magic isn't doing anything wrong. Players contact players, those players then speak to their GM and give them ideas. The rules of tampering won't prevent this at all. LeBron runs Rich Paul and that means, by extension, Rich Paul tells him all that's going on around the NBA trade market. This was ingenius by LeBron. Small market teams aren't paying the big dollars a large market team is paying so them complaining when they squandered their talent is no ones fault but their own. They had numerous chances to buff up the Pelicans and failed time after time. Why waste your career playing for a franchise that will end up turning your career into a joke? Yeah, AD wants to go to the Lakers.. that actually helps the other teams. I'm suspecting their response in putting that AD wanted to go to the Lakers is due to the Pelicans thinking they still have leverage. Well, they really don't have much leverage. AD wants to leave and no one wants to play for the Pelicans. Take the young players Lakers has to offer and move on. Letting Rondo walk for $9 million but choosing to pay Solomon Hill $49 million for four years after he averaged 4 points, 3 rebounds, and 1 assist for the Pacers is quite honestly a pure representation of how bad this franchise is at running an NBA team.

love when guys get fined for doing nothing wrong right????????

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25879816/anthony-davis-new-orleans-pelicans-fined-50000-public-trade-demand-agent

MarcCrawford
01-29-2019, 09:29 PM
The Lakers are the Maple leafs and Yankees of the NBA and to no real fault of their own. They have the biggest following and certainly the biggest media following. Itís simple math really. I could write a story right now saying Any star wants to join the lakers and it would gain traction. Itís the same old garbage floated out a decade ago probably saved on CPU and just changed the names.

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 09:39 PM
love when guys get fined for doing nothing wrong right????????

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25879816/anthony-davis-new-orleans-pelicans-fined-50000-public-trade-demand-agent

"Magic isn't doing anything wrong."

Where does it state Magic got fined? Jesus Christ, I think you might be a bit uneducated.

ewing
01-29-2019, 09:55 PM
The NBA is the worst for this by far. So many whining unhappy players.

The sense of entitlement among players is totally out of control. When the Fultz and Smith Jrs of the world think itís ok to just stop showing up when they feel like it the league has a serious integrity issue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

c.c.
01-29-2019, 09:59 PM
Flashbot been defending the bs in every thread lol

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 10:02 PM
Flashbot been defending the bs in every thread lol

Yeah. Cause garbage franchises shouldn't be babied up when they massively screw up by their own doing.

More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 10:20 PM
"Magic isn't doing anything wrong."

Where does it state Magic got fined? Jesus Christ, I think you might be a bit uneducated.

nono magic didnt do anything wrong yet but he has done this same crap with PG13 and it cost him 500k remember? Now a player after playing the lakers and lebron is doing the same **** but you assume nothing is being done that is wrong when clearly it is.

More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 10:21 PM
Flashbot been defending the bs in every thread lol

hes a laker fan now is why. He defends the lakers in every thread...he thinks lonzo is gonna be better than tatum lol

Switch
01-29-2019, 10:26 PM
If AD wants to be a Laker I don't see what the big deal is? A lot of hate here I tell ya

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 10:38 PM
nono magic didnt do anything wrong yet but he has done this same crap with PG13 and it cost him 500k remember? Now a player after playing the lakers and lebron is doing the same **** but you assume nothing is being done that is wrong when clearly it is.

No, learn to read buddy. I said Magic didn't do anything wrong here and you reply back with a link saying AD was fined. How does AD being fined mean Magic did something wrong, lol?

c.c.
01-29-2019, 10:38 PM
hes a laker fan now is why. He defends the lakers in every thread...he thinks lonzo is gonna be better than tatum lol

Lonzo better than Tatum? No way lol

Flash bolt is this true?

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 10:40 PM
hes a laker fan now is why. He defends the lakers in every thread...he thinks lonzo is gonna be better than tatum lol

And you're just an emotional wreck.

ewing
01-29-2019, 11:03 PM
hes a laker fan now is why. He defends the lakers in every thread...he thinks lonzo is gonna be better than tatum lol

He about to start telling us how great a family man Magic is

Mr.B
01-29-2019, 11:11 PM
There will have to be major rule changes or much stiffer penalties for players tampering before there will be changes. Players tampering with other players (while under contract) will have to be punished as if a GM was the one hanging out with them and ďriding on a banana boatĒ. Either the fine will have to be a significant monetary fine (to the player tampering) or the team will have to be pushed by losing draft picks and the rights to acquire the player they are tampering with. Until that happens there will always be star players recruiting other star players.

The problem the NBA has with this specific situation though is that the Lakers are the marquee franchise and Labron is its marquee player. Itís in the leagueís best interest if the Lakers and Labron are competing for titles. Ratings go up and revenue goes up. Thatís why weíll never see any significant action taken against them when it comes to tampering.

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 11:12 PM
Lonzo better than Tatum? No way lol

Flash bolt is this true?

Come back in a few years and talk to me. I don't really care what you guys think when no substance is given.

Scoots
01-29-2019, 11:18 PM
If that's the counter argument to doing away with certain exemptions, tighter caps, and restriction of bird rights; I can live with it.

Yeah, and as we've discussed elsewhere I'm fine with the elimination of all exemptions, going to a hard cap, and a much stronger revenue sharing system. The better teams are going to be better regardless of the rules so we might as well get rid of some of their excuses along the way.

Scoots
01-29-2019, 11:20 PM
Yeah. Cause garbage franchises shouldn't be babied up when they massively screw up by their own doing.

Unless it's KD choosing the Warriors?

Scoots
01-29-2019, 11:22 PM
If AD wants to be a Laker I don't see what the big deal is? A lot of hate here I tell ya

Seems to me like the same hate KD and Cousins got for going to the Warriors. Nothing new to see here.

ewing
01-29-2019, 11:30 PM
Seems to me like the same hate KD and Cousins got for going to the Warriors. Nothing new to see here.

Pusses get called pusses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
01-29-2019, 11:31 PM
Unless it's KD choosing the Warriors?

We gave KD enough to win. Not even remotely the same. You're smart enough to know the difference.

ewing
01-29-2019, 11:34 PM
We gave KD enough to win. Not even remotely the same. You're smart enough to know the difference.

The difference is KD played out his contract. AD has an obligation. NO has not made his work environment untenable. He should shut up and play


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More-Than-Most
01-29-2019, 11:55 PM
We gave KD enough to win. Not even remotely the same. You're smart enough to know the difference.

lol one guy played out his contract and the other decided he is 37 years old and free agency is years away and demanded a trade and wants to pick the team. Do you see the hilarity?

FlashBolt
01-30-2019, 02:21 AM
lol one guy played out his contract and the other decided he is 37 years old and free agency is years away and demanded a trade and wants to pick the team. Do you see the hilarity?

Oh, so now you're defending KD? That's cute. Do you change your feelings like a female based on what you feel like typing?

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 02:26 AM
Oh, so now you're defending KD? That's cute. Do you change your feelings like a female based on what you feel like typing?

lol so you are so upset right now because we are calling you on your same hypocrtical ******** so in turn you go about slighting females by calling them emotional? I have called KD a ***** for the longest FOR GOING TO A TEAM THAT GIFTS HIM A TITLE... Not for leaving the thunder and i said that countless times because he was a free agent and deserved to go where he wanted but it was still a ***** move... Watching you **** on KD but defend curry in the other thread and AD in this thread further shows me all i need to see with you... You have no arguments.

Leftcoast_yg
01-30-2019, 02:39 AM
Oh, so now you're defending KD? That's cute. Do you change your feelings like a female based on what you feel like typing?

Lol

Leftcoast_yg
01-30-2019, 02:40 AM
lol so you are so upset right now because we are calling you on your same hypocrtical ******** so in turn you go about slighting females by calling them emotional? I have called KD a ***** for the longest FOR GOING TO A TEAM THAT GIFTS HIM A TITLE... Not for leaving the thunder and i said that countless times because he was a free agent and deserved to go where he wanted but it was still a ***** move... Watching you **** on KD but defend curry in the other thread and AD in this thread further shows me all i need to see with you... You have no arguments.

Change the subject to sexism hey squirt?

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 02:48 AM
Change the subject to sexism hey squirt?

considering there was 9 million words after that change of subject that dealt with the entire subject at hand interesting. I assume you came back the same time flash became a lakers fan?? when lebron signed?

m_witter2003
01-30-2019, 03:33 AM
This AD move shows how hard it is for small market teams to compete. Unfortunately fans of small market teams are going to dwindle. The NBA and it's owners don't care they've been pushing the NBA into a global sport. Every owner makes millions regardless how their team performs. They make even more if their teams plays well obviously.
If small market teams want to compete they have to draft great in 2 out of 4 years (so both are on rookie contracts) and hope both of players want to stay. The alternative is to over pay for marginal players. The exception obviously was Cleveland and Lebron but the odds of the hometown team having the top pick and the top player becoming an all time great? Slim.
The "super max" deal isn't helping either, especially with taxes different in each state, endorsement deals, and the weather. It feels like the Players Union helped push the cap higher to help make super teams and made people believe it's "in the best interest of the player." Funny Chris Paul and Lebron are leaders in the Union.
Hopefully when Lebron retires, there won't be players working behind the scenes the bring players together and the completive balance of the league becomes level.

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 03:53 AM
this is why i basically pray half or more of the league just decides to start tanking year after year. **** it.

m_witter2003
01-30-2019, 04:00 AM
LA should of been punished like the Wolves did in the early 2000s with Joe Smith. 3.5 Mil and lose of 3 first round picks.

Leftcoast_yg
01-30-2019, 04:14 AM
considering there was 9 million words after that change of subject that dealt with the entire subject at hand interesting. I assume you came back the same time flash became a lakers fan?? when lebron signed?

Been a fan since chuckie atkins was our starting pg chomo

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 04:19 AM
Been a fan since chuckie atkins was our starting pg chomo

when did you return to the site and watching them? Seems like you joined the site when they finally became good again and vanished when they were bad again and are now back because they signed lebron. Interesting.

FlashBolt
01-30-2019, 05:18 AM
this is why i basically pray half or more of the league just decides to start tanking year after year. **** it.

They already do. What's your point? If management were competent and the right people are hired, star players who want to win wouldn't be leaving.

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 06:04 AM
They already do. What's your point? If management were competent and the right people are hired, star players who want to win wouldn't be leaving.

gtfo... KD ring a bell? They gave him a **** ton of help... How about Lebron leaving the heat or lebron leaving the cavs a 2nd time after both franchises basically did whatever he wanted... Kyrie is probably gonna walk from the celtics and lets not act like KL is staying in toronto or for that matter with the spurs or how about butler in like 9 different situations? Keep on believing that bs

c.c.
01-30-2019, 08:23 AM
gtfo... KD ring a bell? They gave him a **** ton of help... How about Lebron leaving the heat or lebron leaving the cavs a 2nd time after both franchises basically did whatever he wanted... Kyrie is probably gonna walk from the celtics and lets not act like KL is staying in toronto or for that matter with the spurs or how about butler in like 9 different situations? Keep on believing that bs

More Than Most dropping the facts

lakerfan85
01-30-2019, 08:52 AM
Seems to me like the same hate KD and Cousins got for going to the Warriors. Nothing new to see here.

How is it the same? Lol!!

lakerfan85
01-30-2019, 08:55 AM
this is why i basically pray half or more of the league just decides to start tanking year after year. **** it.

I thought they called it the 76er process now?

warfelg
01-30-2019, 09:05 AM
gtfo... KD ring a bell? They gave him a **** ton of help... How about Lebron leaving the heat or lebron leaving the cavs a 2nd time after both franchises basically did whatever he wanted... Kyrie is probably gonna walk from the celtics and lets not act like KL is staying in toronto or for that matter with the spurs or how about butler in like 9 different situations? Keep on believing that bs

I think the other issue is how many teams are starting to get burned by having a stud, trying to build around them, then get stuck with a bunch of bloated contracts because they absolutely had to do what they could to keep those players.

Blame management all you want, but the NBA makes it hard for small market teams to build because thereís no trigger that pushes player movement to ALL teams.

warfelg
01-30-2019, 09:21 AM
Listening to players only after game coverage and Baron Davis said something interesting and a problem for the NBA that they never addressed:

Klutch Sports was an agency created by LeBron for LeBron so he could ďrepresent himselfĒ without having no agent. And as all these players go to Rich Paul and Klutch, they are effectively represented by LeBron.

Then I click on NBA Radio and they are talking about the same thing and went on:

Klutch sports and LeBron James are one in the same, and as more players use them for representation we will see this more often. Even back in the 90ís; your agent was in your city most likely. There were many agents and agencies back then, so there was less of a large collection of big name players under one agency.

So they walked about how the consolidation of agents created some problems because these guys see each other much more often than in the past.

Basically the NBA created their own mess with the consolidation of agents and not pushing forward specifically in the LeBron case to disinvest from the agency they created.

McAllen Tx
01-30-2019, 09:42 AM
As a Lakers fan I'm not at all excited about these super teams in the making. It takes away competitiveness. It's turning into the NCAA where you have Duke & Kentucky beating up on UOP & SFA. I would love a league where my 5 against your 5 gets settled on the court by the players, not the GMs and agents wearing suits.

My idea of bringing competitiveness balance is this - instead of players having to meet certain criteria to get a supermax or max contract, give each team only one of each. A team can only sign one player to a supermax contract starting at $35 million, after that they can only offer a player a max contract starting at $27.5 million. After that the most they can offer a player is $20 million. Of course still keeping the salary cap and LT. Superstars will then move around.

Examples: GS already has Curry at a supermax so the most they could offer KD would be starting at $27.5 million. He's gone. Maybe KT will take the $27.5 million instead of going to some small market team but then who knows, he could become the face of the Hawks.

Lakers already for LBJ at the supermax so you can scratch KL, KD from possible signees. They sure wouldn't be trying to trade the farm for AD cause he isn't gonna re-sign for $27.5 million.

It'll be our superstar, lower level star and team against your superstar, lower level star and team.

Just my thoughts

warfelg
01-30-2019, 09:45 AM
As a Lakers fan I'm not at all excited about these super teams in the making. It takes away competitiveness. It's turning into the NCAA where you have Duke & Kentucky beating up on UOP & SFA. I would love a league where my 5 against your 5 gets settled on the court by the players, not the GMs and agents wearing suits.

My idea of bringing competitiveness balance is this - instead of players having to meet certain criteria to get a supermax or max contract, give each team only one of each. A team can only sign one player to a supermax contract starting at $35 million, after that they can only offer a player a max contract starting at $27.5 million. After that the most they can offer a player is $20 million. Of course still keeping the salary cap and LT. Superstars will then move around.

Examples: GS already has Curry at a supermax so the most they could offer KD would be starting at $27.5 million. He's gone. Maybe KT will take the $27.5 million instead of going to some small market team but then who knows, he could become the face of the Hawks.

Lakers already for LBJ at the supermax so you can scratch KL, KD from possible signees. They sure wouldn't be trying to trade the farm for AD cause he isn't gonna re-sign for $27.5 million.

It'll be our superstar, lower level star and team against your superstar, lower level star and team.

Just my thoughts

Downside to that, and one of the few CBA areas I agree with Scoots, that penalizes teams for good drafting.

McAllen Tx
01-30-2019, 09:46 AM
Listening to players only after game coverage and Baron Davis said something interesting and a problem for the NBA that they never addressed:

Klutch Sports was an agency created by LeBron for LeBron so he could ďrepresent himselfĒ without having no agent. And as all these players go to Rich Paul and Klutch, they are effectively represented by LeBron.

Then I click on NBA Radio and they are talking about the same thing and went on:

Klutch sports and LeBron James are one in the same, and as more players use them for representation we will see this more often. Even back in the 90ís; your agent was in your city most likely. There were many agents and agencies back then, so there was less of a large collection of big name players under one agency.

So they walked about how the consolidation of agents created some problems because these guys see each other much more often than in the past.

Basically the NBA created their own mess with the consolidation of agents and not pushing forward specifically in the LeBron case to disinvest from the agency they created.

I said in the Lakers forum and I really believe this, not long after LBJ retires Rich Paul isn't gonna last as an agent. I expect GMs to begin to freeze his clients out after his current clients.

McAllen Tx
01-30-2019, 09:55 AM
Downside to that, and one of the few CBA areas I agree with Scoots, that penalizes teams for good drafting.

The teams drafting high lottery every year are the ones complaining about losing their stars anyways. Every team is gonna have to make a decision on who they want to build around.

warfelg
01-30-2019, 09:56 AM
I said in the Lakers forum and I really believe this, not long after LBJ retires Rich Paul isn't gonna last as an agent. I expect GMs to begin to freeze his clients out after his current clients.

Thatís a hard one to project. But he sure got the cushiest start ever to an agents career. A player sure fire for a max contract and a huge shoe deal; along with any other endorsement he wants.

Do that, have the player back you, then sign only max contract guys as your clientele. Certainly makes him seem like a power broker.

warfelg
01-30-2019, 10:00 AM
The teams drafting high lottery every year are the ones complaining about losing their stars anyways. Every team is gonna have to make a decision on who they want to build around.

Well what about the Warriors case? Or Milwaukee? Portland? Their max guys werenít high picks, and their second best players were late lotto or even second round finds. How do you account for trades? Canít trade for a max player if you have a max player?

Just change up or add to the revenue stream (gambling, merchandise, more streaming options); make the current lux tax the hard cap, and no max contracts.

$135 mil cap, and want to spend $100 mil on having AD and LeBron? Congrats. Now you got $35 mil for 13 spots.

The reason players wonít take that isnít that they give up the max. Union leadership would dump these non-deserving max deals so fast and not think twice about it. They wonít take it because it means that they wonít have as many stars on their team and winning would be harder. Thatís why the players oppose any change to the current system.

McAllen Tx
01-30-2019, 10:26 AM
Well what about the Warriors case? Or Milwaukee? Portland? Their max guys werenít high picks, and their second best players were late lotto or even second round finds. How do you account for trades? Canít trade for a max player if you have a max player?

Just change up or add to the revenue stream (gambling, merchandise, more streaming options); make the current lux tax the hard cap, and no max contracts.

$135 mil cap, and want to spend $100 mil on having AD and LeBron? Congrats. Now you got $35 mil for 13 spots.

The reason players wonít take that isnít that they give up the max. Union leadership would dump these non-deserving max deals so fast and not think twice about it. They wonít take it because it means that they wonít have as many stars on their team and winning would be harder. Thatís why the players oppose any change to the current system.

It was just a suggestion to a foundation, of course there's a lot of tweeking. You want to dot the Is and cross the Ts to a rough draft lol.

With your idea don't you cut out the middle man? Of course that would only apply to a selected few. I can see your point using the Lakers as an example, they'd truly be a 2 man team. Opposed to a team with only 1 superstar and a more balanced team. The biggest downfall I see with your idea is you're putting a cap on how much a team could spend. I'm not sure that's something the Players Union would agree on.

Heediot
01-30-2019, 10:28 AM
Raptors draft well, as a fan I don't care if they lose some of their drafted players as long as we have no max contracts and the current system. NFL and NFL have to allocate money wisely and teams have to lose out on some guys they drafted. Y'all could still team up just put your money where your mouth is about winning. Too much crap going on with the current system. Paul just wanted one last nice contract and Bron wants legacy so they negotiated the cba with ulterior motives imo. They just needed to conjure up a spin for the rest of the PA and the media.

Another thing if you consistently draft well and make good moves like Masai, Celtics, Spurs, and Warriors (although the drafting hasn't been up to far of late) you'll find ways to replenish the stock. Good management and coaching will get more rewarded in a different/challenging way.

Scoots
01-30-2019, 10:53 AM
Well what about the Warriors case? Or Milwaukee? Portland? Their max guys werenít high picks, and their second best players were late lotto or even second round finds. How do you account for trades? Canít trade for a max player if you have a max player?

Just change up or add to the revenue stream (gambling, merchandise, more streaming options); make the current lux tax the hard cap, and no max contracts.

$135 mil cap, and want to spend $100 mil on having AD and LeBron? Congrats. Now you got $35 mil for 13 spots.

The reason players wonít take that isnít that they give up the max. Union leadership would dump these non-deserving max deals so fast and not think twice about it. They wonít take it because it means that they wonít have as many stars on their team and winning would be harder. Thatís why the players oppose any change to the current system.

The NBAPA LIKES max contracts. The star players don't, but there are a lot fewer of them and they don't get extra votes. The players know that max contracts made it so a lot of players made a lot more money than they would have without max contracts. And they know that LeBron is going to make crazy money even if his team paid him $1 a game, but the 7th man makes enough to live well the rest of his life because of max contracts freeing up money from the stars.

warfelg
01-30-2019, 11:15 AM
The NBAPA LIKES max contracts. The star players don't, but there are a lot fewer of them and they don't get extra votes. The players know that max contracts made it so a lot of players made a lot more money than they would have without max contracts. And they know that LeBron is going to make crazy money even if his team paid him $1 a game, but the 7th man makes enough to live well the rest of his life because of max contracts freeing up money from the stars.

Guess you didnít read my last sentence where I said it wouldnít change.

Scoots
01-30-2019, 11:48 AM
Guess you didnít read my last sentence where I said it wouldnít change.

I saw it, I was just fleshing out the reason max contracts stick around from the perspective of the players union. The owners and players like them, while I'm sure some owners and some players don't, the majority support the max contract. It's something I wish we could apply to business.

Leftcoast_yg
01-30-2019, 11:54 AM
I thought they called it the 76er process now?

Lakerfan85 dropping facts!!!

warfelg
01-30-2019, 12:15 PM
I saw it, I was just fleshing out the reason max contracts stick around from the perspective of the players union. The owners and players like them, while I'm sure some owners and some players don't, the majority support the max contract. It's something I wish we could apply to business.

I don't think owners like it as much as you think.

Scoots
01-30-2019, 12:35 PM
I don't think owners like it as much as you think.

All I said was that the majority support it ... so 16 of 30 owners. How many do you think support it?

warfelg
01-30-2019, 12:46 PM
All I said was that the majority support it ... so 16 of 30 owners. How many do you think support it?

About 50%, but the only reason they do is they know it allowed them to keep 2 players of that level. From an owner standpoint, outside of having 2-3 star players, the max has caused more problems than it's solved because teams ended up having players making far more than they are worth and teams have had to sacrifice assets to move on from that. If the max didn't exist, more players would make their actual value rather than an artificially set price they can ask for.

Scoots
01-30-2019, 01:42 PM
About 50%, but the only reason they do is they know it allowed them to keep 2 players of that level. From an owner standpoint, outside of having 2-3 star players, the max has caused more problems than it's solved because teams ended up having players making far more than they are worth and teams have had to sacrifice assets to move on from that. If the max didn't exist, more players would make their actual value rather than an artificially set price they can ask for.

So when you said "I don't think owners like it as much as you think." you meant 1 less :)

It also means the owners with less money take significantly less risk while still having a player they can call a star to sell tickets.

If the max didn't exist a lot more players would make less than they are worth too.

There is no perfect solution. With no maximum limit players will be over-paid just like they are with the max. With the max the risk is more spread out.

Hawkeye15
01-30-2019, 01:43 PM
Guarantee this has always happened. But with the age of social media its all become public.

Swift Game
01-30-2019, 01:48 PM
the **** do you mean???

The NBA fined the Los Angeles Lakers $500,000 on Thursday for violating the league's anti-tampering rules. The fine appears to be a result of the investigation into Los Angeles' contact with Paul George while he was under contract with the Indiana Pacers.Aug 31, 2017

my bad he wised up now and allowed lebron to take AD out to dinner and pull this dumb ****... Personally again whatever gets lebron rings and beats the warriors makes me happy but this destroys small market teams and a team like the lakers keep getting slaps on the wrists... its getting old.


hey people now you ****ing see why I am all for teams tanking. This right here is why. A team can try their hardest to build their ***** off the right way like the pacers/raptors but what chance do they have against teams like the warriors and now the lakers just because stars want to play with other top stars and take the easy road.Lol...someone is getting real salty....it will be fine man...breathe...

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valade16
01-30-2019, 01:49 PM
So when you said "I don't think owners like it as much as you think." you meant 1 less :)

It also means the owners with less money take significantly less risk while still having a player they can call a star to sell tickets.

If the max didn't exist a lot more players would make less than they are worth too.

There is no perfect solution. With no maximum limit players will be over-paid just like they are with the max. With the max the risk is more spread out.

I agree. If owners are so stupid that they give middling players massive amounts of money under the current system, with no max those owners will just start giving massive amounts of money to slightly better but still undeserving players.

I could easily see a team like say Memphis or Charlotte dropping $35-45 million a year on a Bradley Beal if there's no cap.

Swift Game
01-30-2019, 01:55 PM
By the way...the Sixers have been milking the system for years...lol..

Trust the Tanking process...how.many top 5 picks do they need to go through...lol..pathetic..



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warfelg
01-30-2019, 02:06 PM
I agree. If owners are so stupid that they give middling players massive amounts of money under the current system, with no max those owners will just start giving massive amounts of money to slightly better but still undeserving players.

I could easily see a team like say Memphis or Charlotte dropping $35-45 million a year on a Bradley Beal if there's no cap.

See, this is where I disagree. Without a max thereís no ďpay me this or I leaveĒ. The market for players is set with the max.

valade16
01-30-2019, 02:15 PM
See, this is where I disagree. Without a max thereís no ďpay me this or I leaveĒ. The market for players is set with the max.

I think that once the top players sign for massive amounts of money the teams left out will vastly overpay for the next tier of talent so they aren't left bereft. I also think small market teams would pay an absurd amount of money to try and keep their stars there.

warfelg
01-30-2019, 03:50 PM
I think that once the top players sign for massive amounts of money the teams left out will vastly overpay for the next tier of talent so they aren't left bereft. I also think small market teams would pay an absurd amount of money to try and keep their stars there.

And that one is fine with me TBH.

FlashBolt
01-30-2019, 04:15 PM
gtfo... KD ring a bell? They gave him a **** ton of help... How about Lebron leaving the heat or lebron leaving the cavs a 2nd time after both franchises basically did whatever he wanted... Kyrie is probably gonna walk from the celtics and lets not act like KL is staying in toronto or for that matter with the spurs or how about butler in like 9 different situations? Keep on believing that bs

I don't understand your argument. Our management wasn't as fully competent as you think because there became a major focus on Westbrook and not KD and that's when our team began playing less of a team and relying more on a few players. You don't know how our system worked but here you are babbling about more funky nonsense. LeBron left the Heat because Pat Riley has been overrated and wouldn't let him and his friends stay with the team. LeBron left the Cavs for obvious reasons. You have no clue what you're talking about. All you know how to do is whine about stuff that has happened since the entirety of NBA and also, stuff that can't be prevented. I also stated, "Want to win." If players don't feel like their team is doing enough to help them win, it's their right to want to leave. They shouldn't be held hostage and it doesn't have anything to do with small or big market. And I love how you don't use facts but always emotions.

Here are the largest markets in basketball (by media/value of team).

Knicks
Lakers
Warriors
Bulls
Celtics
Nets
Rockets
Clippers
Mavs

Outside of the Warriors and Rockets, which team has been "dominating" free agency? I'm having trouble seeing why you think these players are scrambling to join big market teams. Knicks can't get anyone, Lakers can't get anyone, Bulls were so desperate they signed Wade to get some star power, Celtics biggest signing was Gordon Hayward, Nets have been signing mediocre players for nearly a decade, Clippers signed CP3 but that was almost 7 years ago, and Mavs haven't found a replacement for Dirk while trying to do so for many years.

Toronto has been a very interesting NBA market the past few years. Who is their biggest free agent signing? If you knew anything, you would know Toronto has had a problem of their best players choosing not to resign or other star players not wanting to sign with Toronto. It's why Vince and Bosh are their two best players pre-Derozan and both bolted ASAP.

There's a reason why OKC has been very successful in having star players on the team. Because our management is more competent than those running these other teams to the ground. Are you going to sit here and tell me Phoenix is competent? Pelicans, Minnesota, Kings? None of these teams are competent. Kings are starting to pick it up relatively speaking but they have no star players - just young talent developed after years of tanking and the fortune of trading DMC (after they did nothing to help him) to the Pelicans for some more young talent. We've managed to convince PG to stay. Tell me how we did that if you're so smart.

Scoots
01-30-2019, 04:55 PM
And that one is fine with me TBH.

But they would still lose and field bad teams. So it doesn't solve the small market team issue at all. The big market teams could get stars for less money and build better rosters around them, the small market teams would be able to keep their best draft pick IF they correctly identify them, and would have to let everyone else walk, and would have a bunch of minimum contracts around them and forever be stuck in the middle of the draft churn.

I'm not against the change, I'm just saying that there are logical reasons for the max contract to be there, and for the most part it is best for the most players/teams.

Right now a team can offer $80M more to their best drafted player for their 3rd contract than any other team can. That's a lot of leverage. If you get rid of max contracts and exceptions that leverage goes away because every team could offer that money to them (assuming cap space of course).

Heediot
01-30-2019, 05:00 PM
But they would still lose and field bad teams. So it doesn't solve the small market team issue at all. The big market teams could get stars for less money and build better rosters around them, the small market teams would be able to keep their best draft pick IF they correctly identify them, and would have to let everyone else walk, and would have a bunch of minimum contracts around them and forever be stuck in the middle of the draft churn.

I'm not against the change, I'm just saying that there are logical reasons for the max contract to be there, and for the most part it is best for the most players/teams.

Right now a team can offer $80M more to their best drafted player for their 3rd contract than any other team can. That's a lot of leverage. If you get rid of max contracts and exceptions that leverage goes away because every team could offer that money to them (assuming cap space of course).

I don't know about small markets struggling with no max's.

In the 90's when there was no max, you still had teams like Utah, Portland, Phoenix , San Antonio, Seattle being perennial strong teams. Pacers in the east. It was just Chicago and New York paying outrageous luxury taxes. Bulls were the dynasty then. Houston didn't have the biggest pay-roll when they won back to backs either. There was parity among teams, and more balanced rosters.

valade16
01-30-2019, 05:14 PM
I don't know about small markets struggling with no max's.

In the 90's when there was no max, you still had teams like Utah, Portland, Phoenix , San Antonio, Seattle being perennial strong teams. Pacers in the east. It was just Chicago and New York paying outrageous luxury taxes. Bulls were the dynasty then. Houston didn't have the biggest pay-roll when they won back to backs either. There was parity among teams, and more balanced rosters.

This is all very true, but the league wasn't even close to the same in terms of money than it is today. Clyde Drexler didn't make over $2 million in a season until 1996 lol

Heediot
01-30-2019, 05:23 PM
This is all very true, but the league wasn't even close to the same in terms of money than it is today. Clyde Drexler didn't make over $2 million in a season until 1996 lol

When Jordan came back he was making more then most teams by himself. Worth every penny though. Knicks wanted to buy a ship and even when they had max contracts early on, they were still shelling out the loot. It was only when they made luxury taxes harsher that the Knicks cooled bit by bit. Ewing (17 mill)was killing it at one point then Jordan(30+ Mil) came back.

I don't know what Sac was doing by they had a top 10 payroll in 95 and 96 and weren't even a playoff team lol.

valade16
01-30-2019, 05:30 PM
When Jordan came back he was making more then most teams by himself. Worth every penny though. Knicks wanted to buy a ship and even when they had max contracts early on, they were still shelling out the loot. It was only when they made luxury taxes harsher that the Knicks cooled bit by bit. Ewing (17 mill)was killing it at one point then Jordan(30+ Mil) came back.

I don't know what Sac was doing by they had a top 10 payroll in 95 and 96 and weren't even a playoff team lol.

Sacto gonna Sacto lol

IKnowHoops
01-30-2019, 05:35 PM
There will have to be major rule changes or much stiffer penalties for players tampering before there will be changes. Players tampering with other players (while under contract) will have to be punished as if a GM was the one hanging out with them and ďriding on a banana boatĒ. Either the fine will have to be a significant monetary fine (to the player tampering) or the team will have to be pushed by losing draft picks and the rights to acquire the player they are tampering with. Until that happens there will always be star players recruiting other star players.

The problem the NBA has with this specific situation though is that the Lakers are the marquee franchise and Labron is its marquee player. Itís in the leagueís best interest if the Lakers and Labron are competing for titles. Ratings go up and revenue goes up. Thatís why weíll never see any significant action taken against them when it comes to tampering.

They had a fix, but they decided not to give out 7+ year deals. Thatís all they have to do is bring those contracts back. They just donít want to get stuck with guys who stay on the books 3 years after they are broken down. They donít want the Knicks/Allen Houston situation. Canít have your cake and eat it too.

FlashBolt
01-30-2019, 05:52 PM
They had a fix, but they decided not to give out 7+ year deals. Thatís all they have to do is bring those contracts back. They just donít want to get stuck with guys who stay on the books 3 years after they are broken down. They donít want the Knicks/Allen Houston situation. Canít have your cake and eat it too.

Pros and Cons to that as well. If you sign a player for seven seasons, you're locked into a contract you can't get rid of.

More-Than-Most
01-30-2019, 09:09 PM
By the way...the Sixers have been milking the system for years...lol..

Trust the Tanking process...how.many top 5 picks do they need to go through...lol..pathetic..



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by the way.... so has the lakers.... fun note the lakers lost nearly many games as the sixers in a similar time frame BY THE WAY...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL

take a look at your 4 seasons before this season.. yes the sixers tanked but so did the lakers the difference is we won 52 games last year and are on that pace again while having a Joel Embiid/Ben simmons