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View Full Version : Popovich deserves coach of the year



Jamiecballer
01-23-2019, 11:10 AM
The Spurs are 27-21. Never has Pop done more with less. Don't believe me? Here are a few tidbits. If you've listened to the latest episode of The Lowe Post you probably know exactly where I'm going.

The Spurs with both Lamarcus Aldridge and Demar DeRozan on the court are +25 point for the season. Basically even considering this is over 1800 minutes.

With both Aldridge and DeRozan off the floor they are plus +100 something (sorry, don't remember the exact number but it was in excess of 100) in only 400 minutes!!!!

Take a moment to look at the Spurs roster after DeRozan and Aldridge, how on earth does Pop get so much from so little.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2019, 11:17 AM
He has deserved it many years. But like the MVP award, there is no consistency, and storyline plays a huge part. Consistency is boring in life, and rarely gets recognized.

IKnowHoops
01-23-2019, 11:21 AM
Pop is GOAT

dhopisthename
01-23-2019, 11:24 AM
yeah coach of the year is one of the awards where I feel like talent doesn't really matter. its all about what the what a team does to that year subtract the writers expectations for a team. the highest win differential usually wins the award. an exception can be when a player leaves the team and the team still plays well they can then give it to them.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2019, 11:33 AM
yeah coach of the year is one of the awards where I feel like talent doesn't really matter. its all about what the what a team does to that year subtract the writers expectations for a team. the highest win differential usually wins the award. an exception can be when a player leaves the team and the team still plays well they can then give it to them.

Yep, exactly. Exceeding expectations is a sound logical way to do it, but we also need to recognize great coaching when it's boring too.

Heediot
01-23-2019, 11:35 AM
he knows how to maximize his talent. lma and derozan would have less value elsewhere. guys who leave like gary neal, simmons, boban, oberto and a long list of others get exposed outside of pops tutelage. having him is like having an extra all star player on your team imo. just the value he gets out of players is unreal. he also plays to the strengths of his players instead of forcing players to play to his system or whatever.

IndyRealist
01-23-2019, 11:57 AM
Pop deserves it every year. Aside from Kawhi, who has ever been derogatory about the Spurs culture?

zn23
01-23-2019, 12:36 PM
goats gonna goat

valade16
01-23-2019, 01:43 PM
Pop deserves it every year. Aside from Kawhi, who has ever been derogatory about the Spurs culture?

To be fair that's pretty big. Essentially "aside from their next superstar leaving and destroying any chance they have to realistically compete, what has ever gone bad?"

kdspurman
01-23-2019, 02:10 PM
A bunch of roster changes, then losing Murray for the season, then losing White for about a month early on, and losing Lonnie Walker for a couple months, it was like what else can go wrong lol.

But he's got the guys playing great defensively, everyone is buying in, and communicating. Many thought with a Derozan/Gay/Aldridge trio, they would struggle to keep up and put up points, but they're shooting the 3 ball better than anyone and 7th in ORtG. He's playing guys to their strengths like he always does, and keeping his rotations fairly short, to expedite the chemistry they need.

This is what he does tho. I think the biggest difference is people really doubted them as a team overall this year. They played one of the tougher schedules early on, and get to finish the season with one of the easier schedules of all WC playoff teams.

nastynice
01-23-2019, 03:31 PM
With Aldridge and dorozan they should be better than 27-21

kdspurman
01-23-2019, 03:36 PM
With Aldridge and dorozan they should be better than 27-21

That's totally disregarding the amount of roster change/injuries they dealt with early on tho. Takes time to develop chemistry.

Their December I'm pretty sure they were #1 or close to it in terms of NetRTG, offensively, & defensively. It just took time to put all the pieces together

IndyRealist
01-23-2019, 04:35 PM
With Aldridge and dorozan they should be better than 27-21

You give those two way too much credit.

nastynice
01-23-2019, 09:52 PM
That's totally disregarding the amount of roster change/injuries they dealt with early on tho. Takes time to develop chemistry.

Their December I'm pretty sure they were #1 or close to it in terms of NetRTG, offensively, & defensively. It just took time to put all the pieces together

Yea, still got some time to keep getting in form. I expected more out of the lma, derozan, pop trio, but maybe just need some time to get there.

cmellofan15
01-23-2019, 10:27 PM
Mike Malone

ewing
01-23-2019, 10:29 PM
David Fizdale


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aman_13
01-23-2019, 10:38 PM
Mike MaloneYeah I agree with this.

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Tg11
01-24-2019, 11:37 AM
Nick Nurse has to be in the discussion for Coach of the Year same with Milwaukee's coach

blahblahyoutoo
01-24-2019, 12:19 PM
David Fizdale


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that made me LOL for realio.

blahblahyoutoo
01-24-2019, 12:20 PM
To be fair that's pretty big. Essentially "aside from their next superstar leaving and destroying any chance they have to realistically compete, what has ever gone bad?"

what?? so sample size of 1 is enough to condemn the coach/culture?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-24-2019, 01:26 PM
Bud should be front runner. He's got the Bucks to #1. Kidd/Prunty was a dumpster fire last season.

Scoots
01-24-2019, 02:39 PM
It's funny how fans ***** about their coach one year then say he's great another. It turns out young players are bad for coaches no matter how good they are.

Heediot
01-24-2019, 02:52 PM
Yea, still got some time to keep getting in form. I expected more out of the lma, derozan, pop trio, but maybe just need some time to get there.

i don't know, the spacing created by these two alone is a challenge for anyone, and neither are the greatest defenders.

IndyRealist
01-24-2019, 02:56 PM
If Pacers get 50 wins it's McMillan.

Hawkeye15
01-24-2019, 04:27 PM
If Pacers get 50 wins it's McMillan.

if the Wolves get 50 it's Saunders

JAZZNC
01-24-2019, 04:54 PM
It's funny how fans ***** about their coach one year then say he's great another. It turns out young players are bad for coaches no matter how good they are.

Yeah, wasn't Malone trash as a coach last year?

cmellofan15
01-24-2019, 05:38 PM
Yeah, wasn't Malone trash as a coach last year?

By no stretch of the imagination was he trash. We lost a good chunk of games when Millsap went down because our defense was inconsistent without him.

And even if he were, would that somehow disqualify him from an award given out this season?

Scoots
01-24-2019, 09:34 PM
By no stretch of the imagination was he trash. We lost a good chunk of games when Millsap went down because our defense was inconsistent without him.

And even if he were, would that somehow disqualify him from an award given out this season?

He may not have been trash last year but Nuggets fans were calling for his job.

tp13baby
01-26-2019, 03:30 AM
Yeah, wasn't Malone trash as a coach last year?

I thought he was terrible. We went from a top 2 offense 2 years ago, then last year ditched what made us successful and he started calling more plays. Our offense was a joke and it didnít involve Jokic like it should. The defense was so bad coming from ďa defensive minded coachĒ. Games we lost last year were against the bottom feeders. Second year missing out on the playoffs by a game. I think he deserved the **** he got last year, but Iím eating my words this year he has done great. He has them bought in on defense and unlike previous years he is letting Jokic run the show.

Jamiecballer
01-26-2019, 01:18 PM
With Aldridge and dorozan they should be better than 27-21No, they shouldn't.

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Jamiecballer
01-26-2019, 01:24 PM
I think it's a slam dunk for Bud, although I think Nurse is almost as deserving. The Rators have lost as many or more games to injury than anyone and have to adjust to having their superstar on and off from one game to the next.

I attribute, to be honest, a good chunk of this to DeRozan but still its impressive.

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aman_13
01-26-2019, 02:01 PM
Bud should be front runner. He's got the Bucks to #1. Kidd/Prunty was a dumpster fire last season.Yeah actually Bud might be the favourite right now.

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ewing
01-26-2019, 08:45 PM
Just give it too Kenny Atkinson and be done with it


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FlashBolt
01-27-2019, 07:58 AM
Bud won COTY in 2015. This guy can coach.

kdspurman
01-27-2019, 12:50 PM
Bud won COTY in 2015. This guy can coach.

He spent like 16 years with Pop, he definitely showed he had it. I wish he would've hung around till Pop retired lol

R. Johnson#3
01-27-2019, 01:18 PM
The Spurs are 27-21. Never has Pop done more with less. Don't believe me? Here are a few tidbits. If you've listened to the latest episode of The Lowe Post you probably know exactly where I'm going.

The Spurs with both Lamarcus Aldridge and Demar DeRozan on the court are +25 point for the season. Basically even considering this is over 1800 minutes.

With both Aldridge and DeRozan off the floor they are plus +100 something (sorry, don't remember the exact number but it was in excess of 100) in only 400 minutes!!!!

Take a moment to look at the Spurs roster after DeRozan and Aldridge, how on earth does Pop get so much from so little.

You make a good point Jamie but I suspect cheekiness in this post. I say it's 50% about Pop being deserving and 50% a jab at your favourite player to ever don a Raptors jersey.

Jamiecballer
01-27-2019, 01:21 PM
You make a good point Jamie but I suspect cheekiness in this post. I say it's 50% about Pop being deserving and 50% a jab at your favourite player to ever don a Raptors jersey.It's not really cheekiness. I don't think he is a good player, others do. Either way what he is getting out of the rest of the roster is incredible.

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Sanjay
01-27-2019, 11:30 PM
No, they shouldn't.

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How come?

Sanjay
01-27-2019, 11:32 PM
He spent like 16 years with Pop, he definitely showed he had it. I wish he would've hung around till Pop retired lol

Why would Budenholzer stay as an assistant when he is good enough to be coach of the year though?

kdspurman
01-28-2019, 11:06 AM
Why would Budenholzer stay as an assistant when he is good enough to be coach of the year though?

I mean of course lol. I don't knock him for it, just as a fan of the team, it would've been great to go from Pop to Bud.

Jamiecballer
01-28-2019, 05:44 PM
How come?Because neither one of those guys is a legitimately good player. I'd go so far as to call them the 2 most overrated players in the league, frankly. Stars are supposed to make their teams better and both have proven time and again to have have marginal impact on the overall result.

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kdspurman
01-28-2019, 05:59 PM
Because neither one of those guys is a legitimately good player. I'd go so far as to call them the 2 most overrated players in the league, frankly. Stars are supposed to make their teams better and both have proven time and again to not.

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You didn't watch Aldridge much the past couple years?

I can't speak too much on DeRozan yet, but Aldridge has been very good. On both ends of the court

Jamiecballer
01-28-2019, 07:27 PM
You didn't watch Aldridge much the past couple years?

I can't speak too much on DeRozan yet, but Aldridge has been very good. On both ends of the courtHe had a career high for bpm last year, I will grant you that. But that's one year, will it be the start of a new trend?

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kdspurman
01-28-2019, 07:29 PM
He had a career high for bpm last year, I will grant you that. But that's one year, will it be the start of a new trend?

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Gotta start somewhere :) he had a slow start, but he's been balling again

DeMar started out hot, but has struggled the last few weeks. I'm glad Pop is giving him some games off to re-group. Probably good for him

ewing
01-28-2019, 08:39 PM
He had a career high for bpm last year, I will grant you that. But that's one year, will it be the start of a new trend?

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Who are you MTM?


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Scoots
01-29-2019, 12:02 AM
Gotta start somewhere :) he had a slow start, but he's been balling again

DeMar started out hot, but has struggled the last few weeks. I'm glad Pop is giving him some games off to re-group. Probably good for him

The most important skill on defense is effort and 2nd is intelligence. LMA is smart and, while he's been lazy on D in the past he's been putting in the work the last couple years no question.

Jamiecballer
01-29-2019, 08:48 AM
Who are you MTM?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNo. You will notice I didnt say his career high bpm of 3.3 was a guarantee of anything. He says Aldridge is better than his career numbers on/off would suggest, I'm trying to be positive and supportive so I threw that out.

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Scoots
01-29-2019, 09:04 PM
Pop is always portrayed as a hard ***, but he's REALLY funny and a really sweet guy to people he cares about. Saw this with Jim Barnett the color guy for the Warriors so long he was the color guy when Pop was with the Warriors, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they haven't known each other even longer.

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/01/27231829/Pop.mp4?_=20

Don't know if that will work, but it's a gif of Pop walking by while Barnett is on TV and Pop rubs his ear.

valade16
01-30-2019, 01:17 PM
Gotta start somewhere :) he had a slow start, but he's been balling again

DeMar started out hot, but has struggled the last few weeks. I'm glad Pop is giving him some games off to re-group. Probably good for him

People don't like the way DeMar and LMA play so it's chic to think they're bums but they are two very good players who definitely contribute to regular season wins. The idea that Pop is working with nobodies when he has 2 perennial all-stars is absurd.

JasonJohnHorn
01-30-2019, 02:10 PM
Pop deserves it every year. But yes, especially this year. It's like that season when Sloan got te JAzz to .500 with Matt Harpring as their first option.

Pop worked mircale last year too.

Jamiecballer
01-30-2019, 05:31 PM
People don't like the way DeMar and LMA play so it's chic to think they're bums but they are two very good players who definitely contribute to regular season wins. The idea that Pop is working with nobodies when he has 2 perennial all-stars is absurd.They contribute in ways that are easy and friendly on the eyes. The ball goes in the basket. The ball is in their hands more than the other players on the court. But that doesn't account for a fraction of the value that is created on a basketball court.

I wouldn't make any judgement based on BPM for a season, it tells you what happened when the player was on the court but that's about it. There are a myriad of reasons in a small sample size why it could go up and down, and indeed if you look at guys careers it does exactly that.

But if you look at players that have had lengthy careers thus far the data is far more telling.

Exceptional players have a strong positive effect on the scoreboard.

Look at these numbers, they are avg bpm for certain players in their career to date:

Lebron 9.1
Curry 6.6
Harden 6.9
Leonard 6.2
Durant 5.1
Westbrook 6.6
Antetokounmpo 4
Irving 3.7
Butler 4.1
George 3.8
Davis 4.8
Lowry 3.8
Lillard 3.8
Towns 4.8


Now granted, as mentioned, there are ups and downs for the players from year to year but the numbers correlate a lot with common sense: teams tend to advance the score most with the best players on the court.

Now, let's look at 3 guys who have been sort of thrown into the category of "doesn't play winning basketball" whether you believe fairly or not, it's not relevant. I am hardly the first person to criticize the following 3 players. And let's look at their avg BPM over their career.

DeMar Derozan -0.5
Carmelo Anthony 0.9
LaMarcus Aldridge 1.4

Now I realize the big -6 for Carmelo this year will make people jump to his defense but in 10 games its impact is zilch.

DeRozan and Aldridge are the most compelling ones to me because both had teammates (Lowry and Lillard) who despite sharing the vast majority of their minutes as well as teammates managed to post vastly superior numbers leaving zero doubt who the real star was in those tandems.

One final note. To further cement the idea that these 3 have minimal positive impact consider this: none of the 3 have EVER had a single season where their BPM is as high as the lowest average on the list above. That accounts for 39 seasons.

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valade16
01-30-2019, 05:47 PM
They contribute in ways that are easy and friendly on the eyes. The ball goes in the basket. The ball is in their hands more than the other players on the court. But that doesn't account for a fraction of the value that is created on a basketball court.

I wouldn't make any judgement based on BPM for a season, it tells you what happened when the player was on the court but that's about it. There are a myriad of reasons in a small sample size why it could go up and down, and indeed if you look at guys careers it does exactly that.

But if you look at players that have had lengthy careers thus far the data is far more telling.

Exceptional players have a strong positive effect on the scoreboard.

Look at these numbers, they are avg bpm for certain players in their career to date:

Lebron 9.1
Curry 6.6
Harden 6.9
Leonard 6.2
Durant 5.1
Westbrook 6.6
Antetokounmpo 4
Irving 3.7
Butler 4.1
George 3.8
Davis 4.8
Lowry 3.8
Lillard 3.8
Towns 4.8


Now granted, as mentioned, there are ups and downs for the players from year to year but the numbers correlate a lot with common sense: teams tend to advance the score most with the best players on the court.

Now, let's look at 3 guys who have been sort of thrown into the category of "doesn't play winning basketball" whether you believe fairly or not, it's not relevant. I am hardly the first person to criticize the following 3 players. And let's look at their avg BPM over their career.

DeMar Derozan -0.5
Carmelo Anthony 0.9
LaMarcus Aldridge 1.4

Now I realize the big -6 for Carmelo this year will make people jump to his defense but in 10 games its impact is zilch.

DeRozan and Aldridge are the most compelling ones to me because both had teammates (Lowry and Lillard) who despite sharing the vast majority of their minutes as well as teammates managed to post vastly superior numbers leaving zero doubt who the real star was in those tandems.

One final note. To further cement the idea that these 3 have minimal positive impact consider this: none of the 3 have EVER had a single season where their BPM is as high as the lowest average on the list above. That accounts for 39 seasons.

There are legitimate questions as to how much value Westbrook, Kyrie or especially Towns bring to the table. And Moses Malone had a 1.7 career BPM.

I think the majority of those guys are flat out better than LMA and DeMar so I'd expect their BPM to be higher. But that doesn't mean LMA or DeMar suck or aren't providing value.

PSD seems to see players that are one dimensional or where they don't like how they score and then take it to the extreme and say they're garbage. They aren't, they are just imperfect players who aren't well rounded that can still provide value if used properly (as we are seeing).

ewing
01-30-2019, 10:16 PM
They contribute in ways that are easy and friendly on the eyes. The ball goes in the basket. The ball is in their hands more than the other players on the court. But that doesn't account for a fraction of the value that is created on a basketball court.

I wouldn't make any judgement based on BPM for a season, it tells you what happened when the player was on the court but that's about it. There are a myriad of reasons in a small sample size why it could go up and down, and indeed if you look at guys careers it does exactly that.

But if you look at players that have had lengthy careers thus far the data is far more telling.

Exceptional players have a strong positive effect on the scoreboard.

Look at these numbers, they are avg bpm for certain players in their career to date:

Lebron 9.1
Curry 6.6
Harden 6.9
Leonard 6.2
Durant 5.1
Westbrook 6.6
Antetokounmpo 4
Irving 3.7
Butler 4.1
George 3.8
Davis 4.8
Lowry 3.8
Lillard 3.8
Towns 4.8


Now granted, as mentioned, there are ups and downs for the players from year to year but the numbers correlate a lot with common sense: teams tend to advance the score most with the best players on the court.

Now, let's look at 3 guys who have been sort of thrown into the category of "doesn't play winning basketball" whether you believe fairly or not, it's not relevant. I am hardly the first person to criticize the following 3 players. And let's look at their avg BPM over their career.

DeMar Derozan -0.5
Carmelo Anthony 0.9
LaMarcus Aldridge 1.4

Now I realize the big -6 for Carmelo this year will make people jump to his defense but in 10 games its impact is zilch.

DeRozan and Aldridge are the most compelling ones to me because both had teammates (Lowry and Lillard) who despite sharing the vast majority of their minutes as well as teammates managed to post vastly superior numbers leaving zero doubt who the real star was in those tandems.

One final note. To further cement the idea that these 3 have minimal positive impact consider this: none of the 3 have EVER had a single season where their BPM is as high as the lowest average on the list above. That accounts for 39 seasons.

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You just said nothing about basketball


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Scoots
01-30-2019, 10:38 PM
PSD seems to see players that are one dimensional or where they don't like how they score and then take it to the extreme and say they're garbage. They aren't, they are just imperfect players who aren't well rounded that can still provide value if used properly (as we are seeing).

Yes, but one dimensional players, even if they are above average in their one skill area, are going to be complained about if they are picked high in the draft or if they are overpaid for their contribution. Likewise people who are very good at one skill but only that one skill are often overrated by fans.

valade16
01-31-2019, 01:18 PM
Yes, but one dimensional players, even if they are above average in their one skill area, are going to be complained about if they are picked high in the draft or if they are overpaid for their contribution. Likewise people who are very good at one skill but only that one skill are often overrated by fans.

Perhaps, but LMA and DeMar are by no means only skilled at a single thing. DeMar has been very good passing the ball in San Antonio and before this year nobody would have said he was a good passer, just goes to show that the system and how they are utilized can change perceptions of them. Nobody would have said LMA was a good defender in Portland, but now that he's actually trying in SA, he's a good defender.

These guys are more than just inefficient high volume chuckers is my point. They are both among the top 25-30 best players in the NBA, yet people constantly think they are trash because sometimes they have low TS%.

Jamiecballer
01-31-2019, 03:37 PM
There are legitimate questions as to how much value Westbrook, Kyrie or especially Towns bring to the table. And Moses Malone had a 1.7 career BPM.

I think the majority of those guys are flat out better than LMA and DeMar so I'd expect their BPM to be higher. But that doesn't mean LMA or DeMar suck or aren't providing value.

PSD seems to see players that are one dimensional or where they don't like how they score and then take it to the extreme and say they're garbage. They aren't, they are just imperfect players who aren't well rounded that can still provide value if used properly (as we are seeing).So for you its eye test over everything. Fair enough. I dont have to be able to perfectly describe why someone doesn't add any net value when there is enough data that points rather strongly in that direction. I find the data more trustworthy than my eyes.

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Jamiecballer
01-31-2019, 03:39 PM
You just said nothing about basketball


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWell then dont engage in any questions about how good someone is, or the kind of impact they make, if the only thing that matters to you is what you think you already know based on your eyes.

It should come as no surprise that the best players help advance the score.

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Jamiecballer
01-31-2019, 03:42 PM
Perhaps, but LMA and DeMar are by no means only skilled at a single thing. DeMar has been very good passing the ball in San Antonio and before this year nobody would have said he was a good passer, just goes to show that the system and how they are utilized can change perceptions of them. Nobody would have said LMA was a good defender in Portland, but now that he's actually trying in SA, he's a good defender.

These guys are more than just inefficient high volume chuckers is my point. They are both among the top 25-30 best players in the NBA, yet people constantly think they are trash because sometimes they have low TS%.Are you just willingly ignoring the fact that both of these guys have ridiculously large sample sizes where they are having almost zero positive bet impact. Slippery slope to discard all data that doesn't fit with what your eyes have told you.



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ewing
01-31-2019, 03:56 PM
Well then dont engage in any questions about how good someone is, or the kind of impact they make, if the only thing that matters to you is what you think you already know based on your eyes.

It should come as no surprise that the best players help advance the score.

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advance the score??? sorry man but you are just talking non-sense. Its what people do when they have an entrenched opinion but nothing concrete to back it up. All you said was hey look at this stat that supports my opinion, yeah it wrong a lot but i'll make excuses for it when its wrong and say its right when it supports my pre-determined conclusion.

valade16
01-31-2019, 04:18 PM
So for you its eye test over everything. Fair enough. I dont have to be able to perfectly describe why someone doesn't add any net value when there is enough data that points rather strongly in that direction. I find the data more trustworthy than my eyes.


Are you just willingly ignoring the fact that both of these guys have ridiculously large sample sizes where they are having almost zero positive bet impact. Slippery slope to discard all data that doesn't fit with what your eyes have told you.

Who says I'm using my eye test over the data? The data you pointed to clearly shows that they have positive value. LMA has a positive BPM for his entire career minus his rookie season, he has a +/- of +4.5 Oncourt and +5.7 On/Off. He's added 3.84, 9.79 (25th in the league) and 5.79 RPM wins the past 3 years. DeMar had bad numbers to start his career, but the past 4 seasons he's at .548 TS%, 1.2 BPM (and that's including the very unreliable DBPM, his OBPM is 2.1), and a 3.69, 8.39 (30th), and 5.46 RPM wins the last 3 years.

It's difficult for me to believe you are looking at the stats objectively if you're concluding they're net negatives on the floor. Impossible in LMA's case.

Scoots
01-31-2019, 09:16 PM
Perhaps, but LMA and DeMar are by no means only skilled at a single thing. DeMar has been very good passing the ball in San Antonio and before this year nobody would have said he was a good passer, just goes to show that the system and how they are utilized can change perceptions of them. Nobody would have said LMA was a good defender in Portland, but now that he's actually trying in SA, he's a good defender.

These guys are more than just inefficient high volume chuckers is my point. They are both among the top 25-30 best players in the NBA, yet people constantly think they are trash because sometimes they have low TS%.

You said "one dimensional" and I was just replying to you. I was not talking about LMA or Demar.

And yes, fans are often too quick to dismiss some as "garbage" and too quick to anoint some as "great".

valade16
02-01-2019, 01:03 PM
You said "one dimensional" and I was just replying to you. I was not talking about LMA or Demar.

And yes, fans are often too quick to dismiss some as "garbage" and too quick to anoint some as "great".

My bad then. Communication breakdown. I agree with you.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-03-2019, 05:07 PM
So for you its eye test over everything. Fair enough. I dont have to be able to perfectly describe why someone doesn't add any net value when there is enough data that points rather strongly in that direction. I find the data more trustworthy than my eyes.

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Valade is one of the most stats savvy guys on the site lol.

Sanjay
02-08-2019, 07:53 PM
I mean of course lol. I don't knock him for it, just as a fan of the team, it would've been great to go from Pop to Bud.

Fair enough, it still may.

Sanjay
02-08-2019, 07:53 PM
Because neither one of those guys is a legitimately good player. I'd go so far as to call them the 2 most overrated players in the league, frankly. Stars are supposed to make their teams better and both have proven time and again to have have marginal impact on the overall result.

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I do not think they are overrated, I would say Westbrook is more overrated. Russell only has 4 WS compared with Aldridge's 6 and DeRozan's 3.6. I am not saying for example LaMarcus is better than Westy because he has more win shares, but am just using it as a statistic.

gogo
02-08-2019, 08:22 PM
Popovich does deserve consideration. His best players are a way past his peak LMA and Derozan, who shoots 3's worse than Lonzo Ball. Their third best player is patty mills.

It's Pop, Budenholzer, Malone in Tier1 this season.

Then of course you have Snyder, Stevens, McMillan and a slew of others.

It's a tossup this season. The coaching ranks look outstanding this year.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
02-08-2019, 08:46 PM
**** Pops. He had his moment. Old **** needs to retire so Spurs can tank and rebuild rightfully so. Bud needs a nod. Bucks only added Bud and Lopez and DDV and #1 east seed. So choke on it. I always respected Pops but time to move on old man. Wife dead, team aging, hit the road jack.

FlashBolt
02-08-2019, 08:49 PM
**** Pops. He had his moment. Old **** needs to retire so Spurs can tank and rebuild rightfully so. Bud needs a nod. Bucks only added Bud and Lopez and DDV and #1 east seed. So choke on it. I always respected Pops but time to move on old man. Wife dead, team aging, hit the road jack.

the hell is wrong with you?

Jamiecballer
02-08-2019, 10:02 PM
advance the score??? sorry man but you are just talking non-sense. Its what people do when they have an entrenched opinion but nothing concrete to back it up. All you said was hey look at this stat that supports my opinion, yeah it wrong a lot but i'll make excuses for it when its wrong and say its right when it supports my pre-determined conclusion.Yeah, none of what you just said is true.

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Jamiecballer
02-08-2019, 10:12 PM
Who says I'm using my eye test over the data? The data you pointed to clearly shows that they have positive value. LMA has a positive BPM for his entire career minus his rookie season, he has a +/- of +4.5 Oncourt and +5.7 On/Off. He's added 3.84, 9.79 (25th in the league) and 5.79 RPM wins the past 3 years. DeMar had bad numbers to start his career, but the past 4 seasons he's at .548 TS%, 1.2 BPM (and that's including the very unreliable DBPM, his OBPM is 2.1), and a 3.69, 8.39 (30th), and 5.46 RPM wins the last 3 years.

It's difficult for me to believe you are looking at the stats objectively if you're concluding they're net negatives on the floor. Impossible in LMA's case.And that's what I said. Marginal positive impact. DeMar is slightly over 1 over the last 4 seasons, does that seem commensurate with his rep as an all-nba player?

This is not close to what most of the NBA's top players produce. It is certainly an indictment against including them in the category of star. Just because the data isnt perfect doesnt mean the extraordinary consistency which which it reveals great players should be ignored or discounted.

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Jamiecballer
02-08-2019, 10:19 PM
Who says I'm using my eye test over the data? The data you pointed to clearly shows that they have positive value. LMA has a positive BPM for his entire career minus his rookie season, he has a +/- of +4.5 Oncourt and +5.7 On/Off. He's added 3.84, 9.79 (25th in the league) and 5.79 RPM wins the past 3 years. DeMar had bad numbers to start his career, but the past 4 seasons he's at .548 TS%, 1.2 BPM (and that's including the very unreliable DBPM, his OBPM is 2.1), and a 3.69, 8.39 (30th), and 5.46 RPM wins the last 3 years.

It's difficult for me to believe you are looking at the stats objectively if you're concluding they're net negatives on the floor. Impossible in LMA's case.Unrelated follow up.. why RPM wins? You find that more useful than RPM?

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kdspurman
02-09-2019, 12:20 PM
**** Pops. He had his moment. Old **** needs to retire so Spurs can tank and rebuild rightfully so. Bud needs a nod. Bucks only added Bud and Lopez and DDV and #1 east seed. So choke on it. I always respected Pops but time to move on old man. Wife dead, team aging, hit the road jack.

Pretty classless post here man. :pity: