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Scoots
01-16-2019, 11:57 PM
This is not about teams or players or allegiances.

Should it be possible to win on a non-playoff team?

Should playoff results be included?

Should team record be a factor?

Should defensive stars who are not dominant scorers be eligible?

Should it be voted on multiple times during the season so great play in the first quarter of the season doesn't get forgotten in the end?

TrueFan420
01-17-2019, 12:26 AM
I think they need to make the award less ambiguous in general. Too many people vote based on different criteria.

FlashBolt
01-17-2019, 01:40 AM
It's a bit of everything but since everyone puts a different value on certain criteria, there becomes a discrepancy in results. I'd like to see a more mathematical approach to it but I'm fine with how it is currently.

Scoots
01-17-2019, 02:10 AM
I think they need to make the award less ambiguous in general. Too many people vote based on different criteria.

As far as I know there is no instruction given to the voters at all right now. I think the largest factor in how it's done right now is narrative down the stretch.

More-Than-Most
01-17-2019, 02:38 AM
the best player in the world without the situation as help... an an example per the other thread... Curry does plenty with a ton around him but would he be exposed on the rockets in place of harden? Basically yes... I hate harden... He is horrid for the sport with how he plays but him/durant/lebron CANT BE DEFENDED... They could go to the very worse teams right now and lead those teams to the playoffs... That is something the embiids/ADs/Curry/pg13/giannis just cant do and so on down the list.

Scoots
01-17-2019, 03:11 AM
the best player in the world without the situation as help... an an example per the other thread... Curry does plenty with a ton around him but would he be exposed on the rockets in place of harden? Basically yes... I hate harden... He is horrid for the sport with how he plays but him/durant/lebron CANT BE DEFENDED... They could go to the very worse teams right now and lead those teams to the playoffs... That is something the embiids/ADs/Curry/pg13/giannis just cant do and so on down the list.

So how do you define that for voters? How do you know these things empirically?

More-Than-Most
01-17-2019, 03:14 AM
So how do you define that for voters? How do you know these things empirically?

advanced stats and logic... Meaning if a guy like harden is close then he should get the nod esp if his supporting cast is ***.

ewing
01-17-2019, 09:54 AM
Rpm

Hawkeye15
01-17-2019, 10:24 AM
How it actually works?

Huge stats on a top 4 team that fits a narrative many times.

The MVP award is arguably the most inconsistent award there is in the NBA. I put minimal stock into them.

All you really need to know is Shaq won 1, and Steve Nash won 2. There ya go

crewfan13
01-17-2019, 12:49 PM
Honestly, maybe the solution isn't change the criteria or definition, maybe the solution is remove voters. Find a smaller panel of more "qualified" nba folks and use that panel as the folks who decide these awards. You can potentially include a handful of former front office types and the more educated of the media folks. The panel then actually has to meet and discuss awards and not just submit a ballot.

That may cause more problems than it creates, but the biggest problems with most media given awards is that it's a bunch of regional writers who may only see 1 or 2 games a year out of certain players from the opposite conference. Get more national folks who study alot of basketball and see if they do a better job.

Rivera
01-17-2019, 12:50 PM
How it actually works?

Huge stats on a top 4 team that fits a narrative many times.

The MVP award is arguably the most inconsistent award there is in the NBA. I put minimal stock into them.

All you really need to know is Shaq won 1, and Steve Nash won 2. There ya go

this

Rivera
01-17-2019, 12:51 PM
for me personally, the player who has the best regular season on a playoff contending team

Htownballa1622
01-17-2019, 01:16 PM
Russell Westbrook. He should be on his 3rd this year.

Do you know how hard it is to average a triple double!?

TRIPLE DUBLEZZZ!!!

ewing
01-17-2019, 01:24 PM
Russell Westbrook. He should be on his 3rd this year.

Do you know how hard it is to average a triple double!?

TRIPLE DUBLEZZZ!!!

Itís not easy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
01-17-2019, 01:26 PM
for me personally, the player who has the best regular season on a playoff contending team

Yeah to me it's the guy most responsible for his teams win total, but how on earth do you quantify that? It penalizes the crap out of anyone on GS for example as well.

Scoots
01-17-2019, 06:47 PM
Yeah to me it's the guy most responsible for his teams win total, but how on earth do you quantify that? It penalizes the crap out of anyone on GS for example as well.

That certainly fits with the literal words for MVP.

SfgiantsJD3
01-17-2019, 06:55 PM
That certainly fits with the literal words for MVP.

Well is it "most valuable individual player on a team" or "most valuable team player".
If it the first then LeBron has missed a bunch of MVP's

zn23
01-17-2019, 08:01 PM
I think we've all accepted that it's the player who is performing the best on a playoff team.

More-Than-Most
01-17-2019, 08:15 PM
Itís not easy


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funny you say that... Ben is close while touching the ball half the amount that westy has... interesting huh?

Scoots
01-17-2019, 11:30 PM
I think we've all accepted that it's the player who is performing the best on a playoff team.

Not really. People still complain regardless of the pick.

ewing
01-18-2019, 09:51 AM
funny you say that... Ben is close while touching the ball half the amount that westy has... interesting huh?

I've never said he was a bad basketball player.

tp13baby
01-18-2019, 11:01 AM
Itís given to the guy with the best stats on a playoff team. And stats itís ppg, apg, etc.

Iíve argued this is a total bs way to give out the MVP but it is what it is.

Hawkeye15
01-18-2019, 01:40 PM
That certainly fits with the literal words for MVP.

There are years like LeBron's Cleveland days, where the answer is obvious. But many years, it's beyond difficult, and the narrative plays just as big of a role.

Scoots
01-18-2019, 03:21 PM
There are years like LeBron's Cleveland days, where the answer is obvious. But many years, it's beyond difficult, and the narrative plays just as big of a role.

I think it's often more narrative than anything else. There is also the problem of good players on lesser teams putting up huge numbers being compared to players on better teams putting up good numbers. In my experience great players on good teams put up good numbers and are largely left out of the narrative part which explains why LeBron and MJ didn't win when their teams were dominant even though they were far and away the best and most critical players on their teams and the league.

rhino17
01-18-2019, 03:39 PM
There is also the problem of good players on lesser teams putting up huge numbers being compared to players on better teams putting up good numbers. .
What? Other than Westbrook, when has this ever been a problem?

Hawkeye15
01-18-2019, 03:44 PM
What? Other than Westbrook, when has this ever been a problem?

yeah typically a player from any team not in the top 3-4 in the league stand zero chance at MVP.

Scoots
01-18-2019, 05:06 PM
yeah typically a player from any team not in the top 3-4 in the league stand zero chance at MVP.

When I said it I was talking in general, but this year are you saying Harden has no chance at MVP?

Hawkeye15
01-21-2019, 11:02 AM
When I said it I was talking in general, but this year are you saying Harden has no chance at MVP?

Westbrook's video game numbers got him MVP with a 6th seed, so it's possible, just not the norm.

Sanjay
01-21-2019, 06:26 PM
This is not about teams or players or allegiances.

Should it be possible to win on a non-playoff team?

Should playoff results be included?

Should team record be a factor?

Should defensive stars who are not dominant scorers be eligible?

Should it be voted on multiple times during the season so great play in the first quarter of the season doesn't get forgotten in the end?

Should it be possible to win on a non-playoff team?
Yes (e.g. Davis should be considered).

Should playoff results be included?
No because it would unfairly affect players not in the post-season.

Should team record be a factor?
No.

Should defensive stars who are not dominant scorers be eligible?
Yes and I think the league should have a Offensive Player of the Year.

Should it be voted on multiple times during the season so great play in the first quarter of the season doesn't get forgotten in the end?
An interesting idea, but then I think performance would be broken down too much into stretches opposed to looking at overall performance.