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zn23
01-03-2019, 03:51 PM
West:

Frontcourt: (top 10- most to least votes)

LeBron James
Luka Doncic
Kevin Durant
Anthony Davis
Paul George
Steven Adams
Nikola Jokic
Kyle Kuzma
Draymond Green
Demarcus Cousins

Guards: (top 10- most to least votes)

Steph Curry
Derrick Rose
James Harden
Russell Westbrook
Klay Thompson
Damian Lillard
Demar Derozan
Lonzo Ball
Devin Booker
Chris Paul


East:

Frountcourt: (Top 10- most to least votes)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kawhi Leonard
Joel Embiid
Jimmy Butler
Jayson Tatum
Blake Griffin
Vince Carter
Andre Drummond
Gordon Hayward
Al Horford

Guards: (Top 10- most to least votes)

Kyrie Irving
Dwyane Wade
Kemba Walker
Ben Simmons
Victor Oladipo
Kyle Lowry
Zach Lavine
Jeremy Lin
Bradley Beal
John Wall


What do you think? Do you agree or disagree? Snubs? Who's Undeserving?

IMO players that have no business being on there include anyone on the Celtics that's not named Kyrie Irving, Kuzma, Draymond, Cousins, Devin Booker, CP3, Lonzo, Jimmy Butler, Vince, Dwade, anyone on the Wizards, Lavine, anyone on the Pistons.


The biggest snub on West is obv. Goebert. But the front court is the West is going to be loaded. Jokic is a shoe in this year, and Davis is guaranteed, so is KD and LeBron. But he's certainly more deserving that Steven Adams (who's been great).

Biggest snub on the East is obviously Vucevic. He's been the 2nd best Center in the East behind Embiid and easily top this year.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2019, 03:53 PM
Rose haha

valade16
01-03-2019, 04:01 PM
Derrick Rose, Dwayne Wade and Vince Carter? Is this the 2019 All-Star game or the 2009 All-Star game lol?

The best is definitely DeMarcus Cousins being in the top 10 Frontcourt vote getters without playing a single minute.

Rivera
01-03-2019, 04:05 PM
idk why but i love all of it. love it all haha

I love that Luka is 2nd
I love that Rose is getting all this love again. I really hope the fans vote him as a starter
I love that Wade is getting the farwell nod. I hope he gets voted as a starter

we need to start a campaign to get Vince Carter and Dirk as starters as well with Wade and Rose

FlashBolt
01-03-2019, 04:26 PM
Does anyone know if the captains for the previous All-Star (Lebron/Curry) are still allowed to be captains for this upcoming All-Star game? I thought there can't be consecutive captains.

mightybosstone
01-03-2019, 06:24 PM
I wouldn't hate Rose or Doncic getting in. They've both had solid seasons, but they have no business starting over superior players like Harden, Durant, Davis and George.

In the East, Wade simply should not be in the All-Star game, period. I get that it's his last season, so it's more of a lifetime achievement award, but I'm not a fan of that kind of thinking because it takes spots away from other deserving players. If the NBA wants to honor and recognize guys like Wade and Carter on All-Star weekend, find another way to accomplish that which doesn't take All-Star spots away from clearly superior players.

FlashBolt
01-03-2019, 06:53 PM
I wouldn't hate Rose or Doncic getting in. They've both had solid seasons, but they have no business starting over superior players like Harden, Durant, Davis and George.

In the East, Wade simply should not be in the All-Star game, period. I get that it's his last season, so it's more of a lifetime achievement award, but I'm not a fan of that kind of thinking because it takes spots away from other deserving players. If the NBA wants to honor and recognize guys like Wade and Carter on All-Star weekend, find another way to accomplish that which doesn't take All-Star spots away from clearly superior players.

I actually think Doncic deserves to be an All-Star. He's been sensational in being able to lead that team. But fan votes only account for 50% of total votes so it's very unlikely he will get enough votes from the other 50% who do vote.

Rose simply has a lot of fans. Dude has some of the most loyal fans in NBA who stuck by him.

As for Wade, we are complete opposites on this. It's unfair for the player who gets bumped out of the spot but as a fan, I absolutely enjoyed Kobe being in that 2016 All-Star game. Vince Carter gave up his spot to MJ and that was totally awesome to see MJ there hitting that clutch shot. Wade has meant a lot to the game and it's great for fans to see legendary players such as them one last time in an environment where the best players are all in the game. Besides, who usually gets bumped out? Remember last season when even Dragic got into the All-Star game (due to injuries but still, he got in). No offense but no one wants to see Dragic lol.

cmellofan15
01-03-2019, 06:53 PM
Shows how many people are still sleeping on Jokic. Best player on the best team in the WC and isn't even top 5 in front court for the west.

More-Than-Most
01-03-2019, 07:53 PM
I actually think Doncic deserves to be an All-Star. He's been sensational in being able to lead that team. But fan votes only account for 50% of total votes so it's very unlikely he will get enough votes from the other 50% who do vote.

Rose simply has a lot of fans. Dude has some of the most loyal fans in NBA who stuck by him.

As for Wade, we are complete opposites on this. It's unfair for the player who gets bumped out of the spot but as a fan, I absolutely enjoyed Kobe being in that 2016 All-Star game. Vince Carter gave up his spot to MJ and that was totally awesome to see MJ there hitting that clutch shot. Wade has meant a lot to the game and it's great for fans to see legendary players such as them one last time in an environment where the best players are all in the game. Besides, who usually gets bumped out? Remember last season when even Dragic got into the All-Star game (due to injuries but still, he got in). No offense but no one wants to see Dragic lol.

um but ben simmons didnt deserve to get in because he was a roy even though he was having a better year last year than duncic is this year... a dude from the heat made it lolol

More-Than-Most
01-03-2019, 07:54 PM
Shows how many people are still sleeping on Jokic. Best player on the best team in the WC and isn't even top 5 in front court for the west.

Best center in basketball as well.

More-Than-Most
01-03-2019, 07:55 PM
To be clear i dont know a better voting method... fans as a fanbase are stupid and bias but players are just as ******** as are coaches. Remember just last year per the players melo was like a top 15 player.

FlashBolt
01-03-2019, 07:58 PM
um but ben simmons didnt deserve to get in because he was a roy even though he was having a better year last year than duncic is this year... a dude from the heat made it lolol

I think Luka has had a better season than Ben's rookie season thus far. Ben might be a better rebounder and defender (I won't give you passing because I think Ben passes more because he has to due to him not being able to score as well as Luka), but Mavs were expected to be a bottom feeder team and yet, they are near playoff contention while having a rather subpar roster. Ben had Embiid as well so it definitely helps when you're a guy who is essentially looking to pass the ball.

Heediot
01-03-2019, 08:00 PM
Shows how many people are still sleeping on Jokic. Best player on the best team in the WC and isn't even top 5 in front court for the west.

Maybe if he chills out on the flopping lol.

GREATNESS ONE
01-03-2019, 08:32 PM
Lebron > Giannis confirmed

More-Than-Most
01-03-2019, 08:43 PM
Lebron > Giannis confirmed

its not even close. Giannis will never be as good as lebron is right now and lebrons in his 90th year

zookman65
01-03-2019, 10:31 PM
um but ben simmons didnt deserve to get in because he was a roy even though he was having a better year last year than duncic is this year... a dude from the heat made it lolol

Ya I dont think so if you dig a little deeper than just the top line numbers. Their scoring is diverging to the point that Doncic will score the equivalent of one extra Ben scoring season every 3.5 seasons. More efficient scorer also in terms of total points per shot. Luka is already showing the ability to draw fouls at a high rate for rookie. That combined with an effective +50 fg rate from 3 makes him a dangerously efficient scorer for a kid barely out of HS if he were American.

Saddletramp
01-04-2019, 07:04 AM
Why is Doncic listed as a front court player?

More-Than-Most
01-04-2019, 07:15 AM
Ya I dont think so if you dig a little deeper than just the top line numbers. Their scoring is diverging to the point that Doncic will score the equivalent of one extra Ben scoring season every 3.5 seasons. More efficient scorer also in terms of total points per shot. Luka is already showing the ability to draw fouls at a high rate for rookie. That combined with an effective +50 fg rate from 3 makes him a dangerously efficient scorer for a kid barely out of HS if he were American.

If you dig a little deeper you will see ben and duncic are averaging the same amount of turnovers even though ben touches the ball a **** to more of the time... If you dig deeper you would realize ben is averaging more total points scored when you factor in points/assists and the fact he takes less shots while averaging more assists and the same amount of turnovers and on top of all of this bens defense is far far better... He is literally top 3 at his position in defense where duncic isnt remotely in the same stratosphere on defense compared with ben simmons..... My bad I forgot he has a 3 point shot but is worse everywhere else... MY BAD.


Anyway you slice it box stats/traditional stats/advanced stats ben ***** on doncic this season... You want the Vorp/WS/Per/RPM????????????????? I will wait.

warfelg
01-04-2019, 09:46 AM
On the Rose/Wade/Carter stuff:
#1 remember that this is just the first returns. It's not uncommon to see the first returns have a bunch of old vets get random love.
#2 the new voting, fan voting is only 50% of the vote.

valade16
01-04-2019, 01:11 PM
If you dig a little deeper you will see ben and duncic are averaging the same amount of turnovers even though ben touches the ball a **** to more of the time... If you dig deeper you would realize ben is averaging more total points scored when you factor in points/assists and the fact he takes less shots while averaging more assists and the same amount of turnovers and on top of all of this bens defense is far far better... He is literally top 3 at his position in defense where duncic isnt remotely in the same stratosphere on defense compared with ben simmons..... My bad I forgot he has a 3 point shot but is worse everywhere else... MY BAD.

Anyway you slice it box stats/traditional stats/advanced stats ben ***** on doncic this season... You want the Vorp/WS/Per/RPM????????????????? I will wait.

Luka Doncic actually has a higher OBPM than Ben Simmons. He has the Dallas Mavericks 16th in Offensive efficiency while Ben Simmons has the 76ers at 12th, despite having Embiid and Butler.

One could argue that Ben Simmons is a better overall player because of his defense, but flat out Luka is the better offensive player.

warfelg
01-04-2019, 01:34 PM
Luka Doncic actually has a higher OBPM than Ben Simmons. He has the Dallas Mavericks 16th in Offensive efficiency while Ben Simmons has the 76ers at 12th, despite having Embiid and Butler.

One could argue that Ben Simmons is a better overall player because of his defense, but flat out Luka is the better offensive player.

Eh that offensive efficiency ignores a lot. Ben, Biid, Butler only share the floor for about a total of 20 minutes a night.

Our common starting unit: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Chandler, Embiid; sits at 2nd in the NBA behind the Warriors starters.

valade16
01-04-2019, 01:43 PM
Eh that offensive efficiency ignores a lot. Ben, Biid, Butler only share the floor for about a total of 20 minutes a night.

Our common starting unit: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Chandler, Embiid; sits at 2nd in the NBA behind the Warriors starters.

Then your coach is an idiot for only playing the #2 offense in the league 20 minutes a night. I wonder though, how the 76ers offense does when it's Simmons on the floor without either of Butler or Embiid?

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:18 PM
Then your coach is an idiot for only playing the #2 offense in the league 20 minutes a night. I wonder though, how the 76ers offense does when it's Simmons on the floor without either of Butler or Embiid?

53 points net differential.

But mind you thatís a lineup of:
Simmons
Shamet
Chandler
Muscala
Johnson


But FG is +.600; 3pt is a +.500; eFG is a +.700

So without either of them they can score really well, but defensively is absolute ****.

valade16
01-04-2019, 02:25 PM
53 points net differential.

But mind you thatís a lineup of:
Simmons
Shamet
Chandler
Muscala
Johnson


But FG is +.600; 3pt is a +.500; eFG is a +.700

So without either of them they can score really well, but defensively is absolute ****.

I guess the 15 minutes that Simmons is off the floor the 76ers offense goes from juggernaught to terrible...

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:25 PM
I want to add:
That lineup has only played 9 minutes together.

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:27 PM
I guess the 15 minutes that Simmons is off the floor the 76ers offense goes from juggernaught to terrible...

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Thatís not what I said at all.

The 15 minutes Simmons is off the floor, TJ McConnell is the primary PG. You donít thing thereís a big drop off on both sides of the floor? What about when Muscala replaces Embiid? Or Furkan Korkmaz/Landry Shamet replace Butler?

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:28 PM
I see the MASSIVE difference between the starting lineup and any other as a sign of the quality of our bench. Just in the suns game our bench was out scored like 72-20.

valade16
01-04-2019, 02:30 PM
I see the MASSIVE difference between the starting lineup and any other as a sign of the quality of our bench. Just in the suns game our bench was out scored like 72-20.

How is it possible for your bench to be so bad and get outscored so much when your best 3 players only share the floor 20 minutes together? How often is your bench on the floor without Simmons, Butler or Embiid?

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:40 PM
How is it possible for your bench to be so bad and get outscored so much when your best 3 players only share the floor 20 minutes together? How often is your bench on the floor without Simmons, Butler or Embiid?

Lol what? Our Bench players get massively out scored by opposing benches. Doesnít have to be only bench units on the floor to understand that. I think your trying really hard to shoulder the massive difference on Simmons.

valade16
01-04-2019, 02:49 PM
Lol what? Our Bench players get massively out scored by opposing benches. Doesnít have to be only bench units on the floor to understand that. I think your trying really hard to shoulder the massive difference on Simmons.

And I'm asking how your bench could even be on the court long enough to get massively outscored. Or is it your bench plus one of Simmons, Butler and Embiid? Because you just said your starting lineup with your big 3 only play 20 minutes together. But Simmons plays 33 MPG, Embiid 34 and Butler 32. So if they're all only on the court together 20 minutes, how many minutes of the game is it just your bench without any of those 3? The math isn't adding up.


I think you're just trying really hard to make it seem like Simmons makes your offense elite. I'm not buying it. Your contention that in the 20 minutes together their offense goes to #2 is because we haven't done the math for every other team's optimal lineups. If you took the top 20 MPG lineup from all teams, I doubt very highly the 76ers stay the 2nd best offense, so it'd likely go right back down to about where it's at, which is good but not great for having 2 players the caliber of Butler and Embiid in them.


And even beyond that, I very much highly doubt that Simmons would have Dallas at #2 offensive efficiency, conversely I think it's highly probable that Phillies offense is even better with Luka.

warfelg
01-04-2019, 02:59 PM
And I'm asking how your bench could even be on the court long enough to get massively outscored. Or is it your bench plus one of Simmons, Butler and Embiid? Because you just said your starting lineup with your big 3 only play 20 minutes together. But Simmons plays 33 MPG, Embiid 34 and Butler 32. So if they're all only on the court together 20 minutes, how many minutes of the game is it just your bench without any of those 3? The math isn't adding up.

Itís bench with any of those three. Thereís almost no time without any of those three on the floor. We donít even have a lineup in the top 20 that doesnít include a starter. So Brown is basically ensuring one of those three are always on the floor at any given time. So they see so little time together because Brown needs to make sure at least 1 of them is always ready to go.

Which shows me that the drop off has more to do in the quality of player coming in off the bench.

And it doesnít have anything to do with trying to make Simmons seem elite at all. Itís got everything to do with the fact that the drop off from starter to bench is so great that I donít think any of our guys would hit high levels of efficiency offensively right now.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-05-2019, 10:25 AM
53 points net differential.

But mind you thatís a lineup of:
Simmons
Shamet
Chandler
Muscala
Johnson


But FG is +.600; 3pt is a +.500; eFG is a +.700

So without either of them they can score really well, but defensively is absolute ****.

Beyond the main 76ers guys the rest of the roster looks more like Gleague. 76ers almost have to hope a ton of buyouts happened again kinda like how ya got Ersan and Belinelli last year. That's when 76ers took off.

Tg11
01-05-2019, 10:37 AM
So what is the cutoff because on an All Star team isn't it 6 frontcourt and 6 guards on the East and West teams? Each team has 12 players so if that is the case off of the first returns then that means for the East for frontcourt players they would have: Giannis, Kawhi, Embiid, Butler, Tatum and Griffin and for the East guards it would be Irving, Wade, Kemba, Simmons, Oladipo and Lowry

Then for the West the 6 frontcourt players would be: LeBron, Doncic (rookie), Durant, AD, PG13 and Steven Adams and for the 6 guards it would be: Curry, D-Rose, Harden, Westbrook, Klay and Dame Lillard


Which would make for a damn interesting All Star game in Charlotte

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-05-2019, 10:46 AM
1080906978141048833

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-05-2019, 10:48 AM
So what is the cutoff because on an All Star team isn't it 6 frontcourt and 6 guards on the East and West teams? Each team has 12 players so if that is the case off of the first returns then that means for the East for frontcourt players they would have: Giannis, Kawhi, Embiid, Butler, Tatum and Griffin and for the East guards it would be Irving, Wade, Kemba, Simmons, Oladipo and Lowry

Then for the West the 6 frontcourt players would be: LeBron, Doncic (rookie), Durant, AD, PG13 and Steven Adams and for the 6 guards it would be: Curry, D-Rose, Harden, Westbrook, Klay and Dame Lillard


Which would make for a damn interesting All Star game in Charlotte

Many years prior it was 7 front court and 5 backcourt. But with a captain for each side probably 6 and 5 depends what position the captain is. Might even be able to be lopsided. I'd have to check last years teams.

Tg11
01-05-2019, 12:02 PM
Many years prior it was 7 front court and 5 backcourt. But with a captain for each side probably 6 and 5 depends what position the captain is. Might even be able to be lopsided. I'd have to check last years teams.

Okay thanks I appreciate it

Heediot
01-05-2019, 12:29 PM
its not even close. Giannis will never be as good as lebron is right now and lebrons in his 90th year

Not offensively, but his 2 way impact will negate Brons offense now when Giannis is in his prime. Too bad Bron wasn't as well rounded offensively in his prime.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-12-2019, 12:16 PM
NBA ALL-STAR VOTING 2019 PRESENTED BY GOOGLE

Eastern Conference

Frontcourt

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL), 2,670,816 votes

2. Kawhi Leonard (TOR), 2,092,806 votes

3. Joel Embiid (PHI), 1,710,229 votes

4. Jayson Tatum (BOS), 599,289 votes

5. Jimmy Butler (PHI), 569,354 votes

6. Blake Griffin (DET), 500,072 votes

7. Vince Carter (ATL), 273,719 votes

8. Gordon Hayward (BOS), 237,813 votes

9. Pascal Siakam (TOR), 206,290 votes

10. Al Horford (BOS), 199,474 votes

Guards

1. Kyrie Irving (BOS), 2,381,901 votes

2. Dwyane Wade (MIA), 1,199,789 votes

3. Kemba Walker (CHA), 858,798 votes

4. Ben Simmons (PHI), 695,032 votes

5. Victor Oladipo (IND), 567,893 votes

6. Kyle Lowry (TOR), 488,825 votes

7. Zach LaVine (CHI), 330,504 votes

8. Jeremy Lin (ATL), 200,648 votes

9. Goran Dragić (MIA), 191,541 votes

10. Bradley Beal (WAS), 168,137 votes

Western Conference

Frontcourt

1. LeBron James (LAL), 2,779,812 votes

2. Luka Dončić (DAL), 2,220,077 votes

3. Paul George (OKC), 1,859,216 votes

4. Kevin Durant (GSW), 1,717,968 votes

5. Anthony Davis (NOP), 1,564,347 votes

6. Steven Adams (OKC), 1,034,014 votes

7. Nikola Jokić (DEN), 740,918 votes

8. Kyle Kuzma (LAL), 584,842 votes

9. Draymond Green (GSW), 411,131 votes

10. DeMarcus Cousins (GSW), 276,849 votes

Guards

1. Stephen Curry (GSW), 2,094,158 votes

2. Derrick Rose (MIN), 1,986,840 votes

3. James Harden (HOU), 1,674,660 votes

4. Russell Westbrook (OKC), 1,494,382 votes

5. Klay Thompson (GSW), 706,960 votes

6. Damian Lillard (POR), 610,839 votes

7. DeMar DeRozan (SAS), 594,012 votes

8. Lonzo Ball (LAL), 529,164 votes

9. Devin Booker (PHO), 310,944 votes

10. Chris Paul (HOU), 306,808 votes

Saddletramp
01-12-2019, 07:09 PM
Iíll ask again, why is Doncic a front court player?

Heediot
01-12-2019, 07:50 PM
Iíll ask again, why is Doncic a front court player?

You could make the same argument with Bron then no?

smith&wesson
01-12-2019, 08:42 PM
Rose haha

And carter in the east lol

Saddletramp
01-12-2019, 09:00 PM
You could make the same argument with Bron then no?

Oneís a point guard and oneís a forward? So......no?

Sanjay
01-13-2019, 01:51 AM
Not offensively, but his 2 way impact will negate Brons offense now when Giannis is in his prime. Too bad Bron wasn't as well rounded offensively in his prime.

Arguably LeBron is in his prime, he had the Lakers at fourth in the West by himself. It is possible he could take them to the Western Conference Finals and the Warriors have had their trouble with injuries. If Durant and Green go down who knows...

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-13-2019, 11:09 AM
1084267595346444292

zn23
01-14-2019, 05:43 PM
The West front court is pretty much set imo.

Jokic, LeBron, KD, AD, Paul George are shoe-ins.

The last spot will either go to Doncic, Steven Adams or Gobert. Gobert is having a career year across the board. Same can be said about Steven Adams although Gobert is playing better. Doncic, I'd love to see him make it, but I don't think he's done enough to take a spot from Adams or Gobert. I wouldn't object to any of those 3 making it.

Doncic IMO would have a better shot if he was placed as a guard.

To me, there are only 4 guarantees for Guard in the West: Curry, Westbrook, Harden and Lillard. De'Aaron Fox is getting shafted here, but he also deserves to make it. You have Derozan, Rose and Klay Thompson for the other 3. I'm not sure about any of them. Klay definitely shouldn't be in this year. Derozan's been too inconsistent.

For the East it's a little less clear.

Front court: Giannis, Embiid and Kawhi obviously. Vucevic deserves to make it as well since he's been a top 3 center this year. I can't make a good case for anyone else after those 4. No one on the Celtics deserves to make it.

Guards: Kyrie, Kemba, Simmons, and Bradley Beal. You need a player from Indiana so probably Oladipo. I can't make a strong case for anyone after that.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-18-2019, 09:56 AM
1085990968233521153

warfelg
01-18-2019, 10:23 AM
Front court: Giannis, Embiid and Kawhi obviously. Vucevic deserves to make it as well since he's been a top 3 center this year. I can't make a good case for anyone else after those 4. No one on the Celtics deserves to make it.

Guards: Kyrie, Kemba, Simmons, and Bradley Beal. You need a player from Indiana so probably Oladipo. I can't make a strong case for anyone after that.

So all you could come up with in the east was 7 guys?

Pascal Siakam will make it. Jimmy Butler too. Likely Blake Griffin. Vuc should make it.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-22-2019, 09:20 AM
http://www.nba.com/video/2019/01/11/20190110-inside-nba-all-star-returns

Barkley say Nuggets should have two all stars since the best team in the west. If they weren't he'd say only one. Says Joker and Murray should be the two guys. But then they ask well does Milwaukee get two since they're the best in east. Barkley says no. He's spot on though.

Middleton been **** most of the year also Bledsoe and Brogdon not scoring enough. Scoring like 15 each only. Middleton hasn't had hardly any monster games. Then they talk about the bottom feeders like Blake or Drummond. Barkley says no. Then they ask what about Vucevic. Then they talk about 76ers. Barkley only said Embiid. Other guys said Embiid,Simmons and Butler but they sitting at #4 spot.

Then they ask about Beal, Barkley said no as well. But he said Middleton is his guy but hasn't played well this year. Barkley spot on pretty much. Brogdon is shooting at a high percentage across the board though like that odd year Korver weaseled in as the fourth Hawk to make it that one year.

Then back to the West he says Luka does deserve to be in even though a bottom team. He picks them over any front court Spurs.

Weird how each year is different. Some years people go by PPG then some years stats don't matter. Then it goes back to wins.