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View Full Version : Wiggins says Minny fans are "s***y"



Scoots
12-30-2018, 10:48 PM
He misses 4 of 6 free throws in a very close overtime game and his response to fans not being happy is to call them "s***y". Gee, I can't imagine why coaches, teammates, and fans have been critical of him.

He's in his 5th year, got his big money deal, and is having arguably the worst season of his career. He's the poster child teams really need to find a way to evaluate better and sooner so they can move them before they break their future for them.

TakeYourL
12-30-2018, 11:29 PM
Been saying this forever, the NBA can help itself so much if it gives teams a way out of these contracts, at least as far as salary cap goes.

One bad signing like this holds a team back too much.

It ruins team, and ruins the NBA, it's So stupid because it's in place to help small market teams be more competitive, but they gey hurt by these contracts the most, because the big market teams will sell tickets no matter what.

Scoots
12-30-2018, 11:49 PM
I'd rather find a way to give teams a better chance to evaluate players rather than give them a way out of what turn out to be bad contracts. If the NBA is going to start signing players straight from high school again it's only going to get worse.

TakeYourL
12-31-2018, 12:07 AM
I'd rather find a way to give teams a better chance to evaluate players rather than give them a way out of what turn out to be bad contracts. If the NBA is going to start signing players straight from high school again it's only going to get worse.

You can't predict which players will just stop caring once they get a contract, and teams are desperate enough to risk it anyway.

It's not like Wiggins fooled anyone with his genius iq.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2018, 12:16 AM
I'm sorry, but this is a clear slap in the face to Hawkeye if you ask me. In fact, I think Wiggins is speaking directly to Hawkeye.

You have a top 3 scorer in the NBA on your young team in Andrew Wiggins who will undoubtedly go down as a hall of famer, yet you trash him every chance you get. Unappreciative fans, man.

Tg11
12-31-2018, 07:09 AM
No way is Wiggins a top 3 scorer in the NBA. He's not even in the top 10 or 20 and that is how **** he is. Been sayin this and he's 5 years in the league. One of the biggest busts I've ever seen.

Cal827
12-31-2018, 10:07 AM
Meh, I'm more of the latter towards teams drafting guys like this. They should be allowed to declare after high school, but if your scouts get caught in the hype and don't do a thorough review of the guy you're going to draft really high, then it's your problem.

Now to Wiggins; it's been a while since we've seen such a disappointment drafted 1st overall. Yes, we've seen Bennett drafted (and possibly Fultz), but those two guys didn't really surprise anyone. Most people thought that Bennett could bust (at that level is quite surprising) and Fultz might be impacted by that nerve injury. Wiggins played decent enough for 3 seasons, got his huge contract, then seemingly stopped trying to improve. Most 1st overall picks have the factor to keep moving to improve, but it seems like he's content after he received his money and stopped trying. It's a little sad seeing all the talent that he actually has. That's why they're booing him, but his ego won't let him accept that. Must frustrate Wolves fans when even with the Butler trade, he's still looking like maybe the 3rd best player on the team.

Heediot
12-31-2018, 10:31 AM
I'll take him on team Canada at the World Cup. If the guy doesn't accept duty for his country, tat's the last straw for me with him.

Joseph-Murray-Gilgous Alexander-Barrett-Wiggins-Ejim-Lyles-Olynyk-Witjer-Birch-Thompson

Birch is a stud fiba/euro paint/rim defender, Ejim is a nice energy/defensive guy, might need a pure shooter on the perimeter though. Canada still has enough talent to medal.

If he doesn't show up for is country, this will show how self-absorbed and me first this guy really is,

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 10:31 AM
well Andrew, when you get a $148,000,000 contract after proving nothing, fans tend to expect you to be, ya know, good. When you suck, you get booed. Just collect your check and continue to not care about anything but your video games you waste of talent.

Scoots
12-31-2018, 10:32 AM
Meh, I'm more of the latter towards teams drafting guys like this. They should be allowed to declare after high school, but if your scouts get caught in the hype and don't do a thorough review of the guy you're going to draft really high, then it's your problem.

The problem there is that player change a LOT between their senior year in high school and 4 years later. It's far from predictable how a personality will change as ball gets more important and central in their life and as the money they have goes up. But I'm sure more time will make the guesses more accurate.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 10:49 AM
The problem there is that player change a LOT between their senior year in high school and 4 years later. It's far from predictable how a personality will change as ball gets more important and central in their life and as the money they have goes up. But I'm sure more time will make the guesses more accurate.

I mean, here is his scouting report "negative" portion from prior to the draft. It reads EXACTLY how he is today.


Weaknesses: The biggest issue is whether or not Wiggins has the mental make up to maximize his immense physical gifts. While some scouts are extremely high on him, there are just as many that question his focus and passion for the game ... Often plays too upright on offense, which can get him off his base and lead to turnovers Ö Needs to work on moving without the ball, has a reputation of sometimes standing, ball watching Ö Defensive awareness is something he must work on, along with always running out to his spot and not relying completely on length, athleticism to challenge a player Ö Still needs to add upper body strength, had issues finishing around the basket and getting knocked off of his spot when defensive rebounding Ö Long range shot is still not overly consistent, sometimes turns his hand outward on follow through Ö Often loose with dribble, sometimes has the ball too high and gets exploited when double teamed Ö Some question his lack of assertiveness offensively, which calls into question his ability to be a primary option on a high level team Ö Battled inconsistency and struggled against physical defense, which could point to strength as well as a sign of shaky confidence Ö Should look to become a more vocal leader ... Too often settled for long range shots and did not venture out of his comfort zone enough, still has many things to learn in terms of creating mid range shots and counter moves Ö Had a difficult time establishing post position, something that could be a crucial next step to utilize his quickness and size as a wing at the next level ... Has been compared to Kobe Bryant, but the biggest difference appears to be the attention to detail. So far, granted Kobe's is extremely rare, Wiggins has been lacking in this area. Will he develop this critical aspect in order to polish his all around game to achieve greatness?

Somehow, Wiggins has managed to get worse each year he has been in the league. How is that even possible?

tp13baby
12-31-2018, 11:01 AM
I'm sorry, but this is a clear slap in the face to Hawkeye if you ask me. In fact, I think Wiggins is speaking directly to Hawkeye.

You have a top 3 scorer in the NBA on your young team in Andrew Wiggins who will undoubtedly go down as a hall of famer, yet you trash him every chance you get. Unappreciative fans, man.

What Wiggins do you watch? **** he jacks shots up, doesnít play defense, and is no way a top 3 scorer in the NBA, let alone on a ton of NBA teams.

Heediot
12-31-2018, 11:31 AM
Y'all realize vee is just clowning (sarcastic) right?

FlashBolt
12-31-2018, 11:31 AM
What Wiggins do you watch? **** he jacks shots up, doesnít play defense, and is no way a top 3 scorer in the NBA, let alone on a ton of NBA teams.

He's being sarcastic, man. I don't think anyone here likes or wants Wiggins. Dude is a massive waste of talent. Was supposed to be a great perimeter defender out of college and turned out to be the opposite. Supposed to be the "next" top wing player and hasn't even sniffed being anything close to it. His contract was a joke. Wiggins doesn't really care about basketball. He just wants to make money. That's fine but he'll get the criticism for it when he's expected to win.

TheDish87
12-31-2018, 11:55 AM
I'll take him on team Canada at the World Cup. If the guy doesn't accept duty for his country, tat's the last straw for me with him.

Joseph-Murray-Gilgous Alexander-Barrett-Wiggins-Ejim-Lyles-Olynyk-Witjer-Birch-Thompson

Birch is a stud fiba/euro paint/rim defender, Ejim is a nice energy/defensive guy, might need a pure shooter on the perimeter though. Canada still has enough talent to medal.

If he doesn't show up for is country, this will show how self-absorbed and me first this guy really is,

this is a weird take

ewing
12-31-2018, 11:56 AM
The problem there is that player change a LOT between their senior year in high school and 4 years later. It's far from predictable how a personality will change as ball gets more important and central in their life and as the money they have goes up. But I'm sure more time will make the guesses more accurate.

More important? Iíll bet anything ball has gotten less important to this guy. After HS he probably discovered all the things ball could give him and the game became secondary.


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IndyRealist
12-31-2018, 12:18 PM
I'm sure there was someone on here defending Wiggins even this summer....IKH maybe?

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 12:21 PM
I'm sure there was someone on here defending Wiggins even this summer....IKH maybe?

correct. The Last Man Standing when it comes to Wiggins. Outside Thib's and Taylor that is.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 12:25 PM
More important? Iíll bet anything ball has gotten less important to this guy. After HS he probably discovered all the things ball could give him and the game became secondary.


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seriously how much time do we need? Or Wiggins that is? We are 359 games into his career, he started every single one, has led our team in FGA for over 3 years now, gets NBA league leading minutes, role, usage, etc.

Like what else do we need to show us he doesn't care? If anything, giving him that $$ hurt his progress. What does maxing a guy out who has done literally nothing show him?

I am so disgusted by Wiggins dude.

GREATNESS ONE
12-31-2018, 12:36 PM
Lmfao Wiggins.... unbelievable what they pay these guys..

GREATNESS ONE
12-31-2018, 12:37 PM
I'm sure there was someone on here defending Wiggins even this summer....IKH maybe?

Wade03 :laugh2:

IKnowHoops
12-31-2018, 12:59 PM
I'm sure there was someone on here defending Wiggins even this summer....IKH maybe?


correct. The Last Man Standing when it comes to Wiggins. Outside Thib's and Taylor that is.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 01:02 PM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

and I still you you're right. But I know you're not :(

Cal827
12-31-2018, 02:27 PM
I'll take him on team Canada at the World Cup. If the guy doesn't accept duty for his country, tat's the last straw for me with him.

Joseph-Murray-Gilgous Alexander-Barrett-Wiggins-Ejim-Lyles-Olynyk-Witjer-Birch-Thompson

Birch is a stud fiba/euro paint/rim defender, Ejim is a nice energy/defensive guy, might need a pure shooter on the perimeter though. Canada still has enough talent to medal.

If he doesn't show up for is country, this will show how self-absorbed and me first this guy really is,

I know when Minnesota was in Toronto, it was reported that he wanted team Canad to pay him to represent the country, for what it's worth. I also remember hearing that there was an apparent rift between him and Triano but I guess we'll see.

Mini article:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/andrew-wiggins-reportedly-asked-canadas-national-team-pay-play-191953873.html

Cal827
12-31-2018, 02:28 PM
Wade03 :laugh2:

Nah, Wade reps two guys: Wade and Giannis94

Heediot
12-31-2018, 02:48 PM
I know when Minnesota was in Toronto, it was reported that he wanted team Canad to pay him to represent the country, for what it's worth. I also remember hearing that there was an apparent rift between him and Triano but I guess we'll see.

Mini article:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/andrew-wiggins-reportedly-asked-canadas-national-team-pay-play-191953873.html

I'm not a big fan of Triano either.

Asking for money to rep your country is pretty low. I can see asking for money as a naturalized player for another country like some guys do for european teams.

Scoots
12-31-2018, 03:22 PM
I mean, here is his scouting report "negative" portion from prior to the draft. It reads EXACTLY how he is today.



Somehow, Wiggins has managed to get worse each year he has been in the league. How is that even possible?

And this is why I don't think teams should be let out of bad contracts. When it's obvious to fans watching on TV it should REALLY be obvious to teams.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 03:25 PM
And this is why I don't think teams she be let out of bad contracts. When it's obvious to fans watching on TV it should REALLY be obvious to teams.

oh absolutely. My Wolves made their bed, they can lie in it for 4.6 more years. It's why I HATED the amnesty clause when it came out. Why on earth would you reward teams for incompetence?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-31-2018, 04:04 PM
I could see the Knicks trading for Wiggins and Parker. :speechless: Moody Kanter for Parker gets it done maybe. Not sure what crap Knicks dump on Wolves for lousy contract of Wiggins. Probably Lee and Thomas and another turd gets it close.

ewing
12-31-2018, 04:24 PM
seriously how much time do we need? Or Wiggins that is? We are 359 games into his career, he started every single one, has led our team in FGA for over 3 years now, gets NBA league leading minutes, role, usage, etc.

Like what else do we need to show us he doesn't care? If anything, giving him that $$ hurt his progress. What does maxing a guy out who has done literally nothing show him?

I am so disgusted by Wiggins dude.


Iím agreeing


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mngopher35
12-31-2018, 04:52 PM
I looked it up and it appears he actually said something like there are some ****** fans and some good fans. Which pretty much describes every fan base and I myself have issues with our fanbases at times too...

BUT

No. Just stop Andrew. Booing you is legit at this point with your inconsistent effort. Our fans might have issues but not liking you/that salary is... well... common sense? Smart based on your impact both eye test and statistically? This is just a really bad look even if he probably didn't mean it how it came off or how the thread was titled.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 05:13 PM
I looked it up and it appears he actually said something like there are some ****** fans and some good fans. Which pretty much describes every fan base and I myself have issues with our fanbases at times too...

BUT

No. Just stop Andrew. Booing you is legit at this point with your inconsistent effort. Our fans might have issues but not liking you/that salary is... well... common sense? Smart based on your impact both eye test and statistically? This is just a really bad look even if he probably didn't mean it how it came off or how the thread was titled.

that is what he said, but you don't even say that after you just missed 4/6 FTs down the stretch of a tight game you just lost. Take some fkin ownership Andrew, my god.

Unfortunately, athletes have a mic in their face, and millions of people watch them. So if they have a bad day, they get pasted. Such is life when you make $8,500 per minute, and you just made $42,500 to go 1-4 from the line in OT. Sorry people expect max contract guys to actually be a good player now and then Andrew...

btw, we agree with each other, just following up your point with a bash

TakeYourL
12-31-2018, 05:46 PM
Wiggins is Anthony Randolph level dumb, you can tell as soon as they speak they are going to waste your time at the NBA level.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 05:54 PM
Wiggins is Anthony Randolph level dumb, you can tell as soon as they speak they are going to waste your time at the NBA level.

well, did you ever hear KG speak as a youngster? half of what he said didn't even make sense, he was so stupid educationally speaking. But Wiggins on court IQ is terrible, yes. And he is just straight up lazy. It's beyond obvious he plays basketball because it makes him a bunch of money. He could care less about winning or losing.

ewing
12-31-2018, 06:29 PM
well, did you ever hear KG speak as a youngster? half of what he said didn't even make sense, he was so stupid educationally speaking. But Wiggins on court IQ is terrible, yes. And he is just straight up lazy. It's beyond obvious he plays basketball because it makes him a bunch of money. He could care less about winning or losing.

Moses Malone was a terrible speaker, pretty good basketball player


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Heediot
12-31-2018, 06:36 PM
this is a weird take

As a fellow Canadian and Torontonian, I've lost hope on his nba potential after the massive hype. The only way I can cheer for him is through the national team. Hopefully he helps elevate the growing program. Only caring about playing for money is one thing, but playing for the love of your country is also another thing. It will reveal more about who he is.

Iron24th
12-31-2018, 06:45 PM
Been saying this forever, the NBA can help itself so much if it gives teams a way out of these contracts, at least as far as salary cap goes.

One bad signing like this holds a team back too much.

It ruins team, and ruins the NBA, it's So stupid because it's in place to help small market teams be more competitive, but they gey hurt by these contracts the most, because the big market teams will sell tickets no matter what.

So the NBA has to solve it for teams like that who chose to sign players to dumbs contracts?

mngopher35
12-31-2018, 06:55 PM
that is what he said, but you don't even say that after you just missed 4/6 FTs down the stretch of a tight game you just lost. Take some fkin ownership Andrew, my god.

Unfortunately, athletes have a mic in their face, and millions of people watch them. So if they have a bad day, they get pasted. Such is life when you make $8,500 per minute, and you just made $42,500 to go 1-4 from the line in OT. Sorry people expect max contract guys to actually be a good player now and then Andrew...

btw, we agree with each other, just following up your point with a bash

Yup it isn't too uncommon to say something wrong given the situation you mention of bad beats then mic in your face. Plenty of athletes have been douches before in similar situations.

Point is like you say don't get mad at the fans for your own failures/faults and whine about it in this fashion. It will never be a good look.

FlashBolt
12-31-2018, 08:40 PM
Cavs fans were upset about the Love for Wiggins trade a few months into the season. Man, in hindsight, that was the best trade they could have made.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2018, 10:10 PM
Moses Malone was a terrible speaker, pretty good basketball player


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn straight

TylerSL
01-01-2019, 01:28 AM
that is what he said, but you don't even say that after you just missed 4/6 FTs down the stretch of a tight game you just lost. Take some fkin ownership Andrew, my god.

Unfortunately, athletes have a mic in their face, and millions of people watch them. So if they have a bad day, they get pasted. Such is life when you make $8,500 per minute, and you just made $42,500 to go 1-4 from the line in OT. Sorry people expect max contract guys to actually be a good player now and then Andrew...

btw, we agree with each other, just following up your point with a bash

Legit Question: Would it make sense for the Timberwolves to trade Wiggins for John Wall? As a fan would you do that? Both are under contract for 4 more years after this one, but Wall has over $47 million more owed to him. A fresh start for both players might be good and it would probably be the only way either team could get out of those contracts. Towns/Wall might play better together than Towns/Wiggins and neither player has played well in their current environment. Seems like something that both teams could broach after the season :shrug:

TakeYourL
01-01-2019, 08:09 PM
well, did you ever hear KG speak as a youngster? half of what he said didn't even make sense, he was so stupid educationally speaking. But Wiggins on court IQ is terrible, yes. And he is just straight up lazy. It's beyond obvious he plays basketball because it makes him a bunch of money. He could care less about winning or losing.

I don't remember kg, but you can be dumb and still love basketball, be competitive, and demand the best from yourself.

Or you can be the dumb type, that just kind of goes with whatever is easy which is what Wiggins is.

Different kinds of dumb.

Like JR Smith is a immature knucklehead type of dumb, but when he really wanted to, he had the ability to focus and play good basketball.

Wiggins is just lazy and dumb.


So the NBA has to solve it for teams like that who chose to sign players to dumbs contracts?

I'm a Knicks fan so yes this is exactly what I support.

But in all honesty, imo it has to happen. Rebuilding, tanking, drafting, signing free agents is a 4 year process most of the time.

Who the hell wants to wait that long, it's insane, in the NFL teams rebuild in one off season, and it's a 10x more competitive league because of that.

1 bad signing can destroy any hopes of a championship for years, it's idioitc that the NBA allows this to continue.

Punishing teams and their fans for years, for trying to win is the absolute dumbest thing the NBA has ever done, and I mostly support what nba execs do.

kobe4thewinbang
01-02-2019, 03:44 AM
Been saying this forever, the NBA can help itself so much if it gives teams a way out of these contracts, at least as far as salary cap goes.

One bad signing like this holds a team back too much.

It ruins team, and ruins the NBA, it's So stupid because it's in place to help small market teams be more competitive, but they gey hurt by these contracts the most, because the big market teams will sell tickets no matter what.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Maybe make the "amnesty" rule not just a one time usage, but maybe every two seasons or at least able to be used again?

kobe4thewinbang
01-02-2019, 03:45 AM
Legit Question: Would it make sense for the Timberwolves to trade Wiggins for John Wall? As a fan would you do that? Both are under contract for 4 more years after this one, but Wall has over $47 million more owed to him. A fresh start for both players might be good and it would probably be the only way either team could get out of those contracts. Towns/Wall might play better together than Towns/Wiggins and neither player has played well in their current environment. Seems like something that both teams could broach after the season :shrug:Yeah, Wall > Wiggins. Wall seems to be going the way of Rose unfortunately, but it's possible he'll recuperate and stay healthy. Not likely, though. Same story with Lowry. I'd do it, though, at least it's more exciting and promising than Wiggins in general, lol.

Saddletramp
01-02-2019, 05:13 AM
I don't remember kg, but you can be dumb and still love basketball, be competitive, and demand the best from yourself.

Or you can be the dumb type, that just kind of goes with whatever is easy which is what Wiggins is.

Different kinds of dumb.

Like JR Smith is a immature knucklehead type of dumb, but when he really wanted to, he had the ability to focus and play good basketball.

Wiggins is just lazy and dumb.



I'm a Knicks fan so yes this is exactly what I support.

But in all honesty, imo it has to happen. Rebuilding, tanking, drafting, signing free agents is a 4 year process most of the time.

Who the hell wants to wait that long, it's insane, in the NFL teams rebuild in one off season, and it's a 10x more competitive league because of that.

1 bad signing can destroy any hopes of a championship for years, it's idioitc that the NBA allows this to continue.

Punishing teams and their fans for years, for trying to win is the absolute dumbest thing the NBA has ever done, and I mostly support what nba execs do.

The NFL has non guaranteed contracts and 22 different starters with 11 on offense and 11 on defense. Signing one guy to a bad contract usually doesnít make or break a team like it does in the NBA. Plus, with 7 draft rounds and virtually no foreign competition, the best of the best come out of college and the sinkers sink real quick. Itís like comparing apples and toothpicks.

I agree that teams should be smarter and maybe thereís a way the league can help them but everyone knew Wiggins wasnít worth it when they signed him. Didnít they not wait for RFA and just maxed him as early as they could with no offer sheets from other teams to match? Or am I thinking of someone else?

And if all of the owners got together to collude with each other, A) itíd be illegal and B) those second tier players would just all sign with already good/great teams and not think twice about staying in the small markets. If the Wiz wouldíve said John Wall wasnít worth the max only the Wiz could offer, heíd sign anywhere else for the league max. And I bet he wouldnít consider the Orlandos and the Indianas of the league.

Honestly, teams need to let their coaching/managerial staff go if they canít get **** done. Bad owners shouldnít be rewarded for their dumb hires. And bad owners should just get out, but as long as they make a lot of money, things wonít change. Maybe divvy up the profits at the end of the year and the worst teams get the least profit sharing.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 12:19 PM
Legit Question: Would it make sense for the Timberwolves to trade Wiggins for John Wall? As a fan would you do that? Both are under contract for 4 more years after this one, but Wall has over $47 million more owed to him. A fresh start for both players might be good and it would probably be the only way either team could get out of those contracts. Towns/Wall might play better together than Towns/Wiggins and neither player has played well in their current environment. Seems like something that both teams could broach after the season :shrug:

I would not do that trade. Wall's entire game is predicated on his straight line speed. When he declines, it will be rapid. And he makes a TON of money starting next year, well into his 30's. His impact numbers suggest all star at best.

So as bad as Wiggins is, and as much as he makes, in 2-3 years, I doubt Wall has anymore impact than Wiggins, and he will be making $10+ million more per year.

I would trade Wiggins for Beal. For sure.

Tg11
01-02-2019, 12:27 PM
Wiggins is ****...Wiggins is a ***** like how Draymond would call KD...Andrew Wiggins you's a *****!!! ***** *** N***a

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-02-2019, 12:45 PM
I would not do that trade. Wall's entire game is predicated on his straight line speed. When he declines, it will be rapid. And he makes a TON of money starting next year, well into his 30's. His impact numbers suggest all star at best.

So as bad as Wiggins is, and as much as he makes, in 2-3 years, I doubt Wall has anymore impact than Wiggins, and he will be making $10+ million more per year.

I would trade Wiggins for Beal. For sure.

For Beal I bet you would. Wiggins has no value at this point. You pretty much need a gullible front office to eat him like the Knicks. That's your only hope.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 12:51 PM
For Beal I bet you would. Wiggins has no value at this point. You pretty much need a gullible front office to eat him like the Knicks. That's your only hope.

GM's surprise me yearly regarding stupidity. My only hope is if our own team realizes they have Josh Okogie sitting on the ****ing bench while Wiggins steals his minutes.

Tg11
01-02-2019, 12:51 PM
Wiggins is a scrub plain and simple always been and always will be...I can't stand Andrew Wiggins

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 12:51 PM
Wiggins is a scrub plain and simple always been and always will be...I can't stand Andrew Wiggins

get in line bro. Starts at the Target Center in Minneapolis and it's about down to Iowa now.

Tg11
01-02-2019, 12:56 PM
get in line bro. Starts at the Target Center in Minneapolis and it's about down to Iowa now.

Like I still don't understand why they don't trade him like why y'all keep him around for? I just don't get it

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 01:14 PM
Like I still don't understand why they don't trade him like why y'all keep him around for? I just don't get it

Cause our owner is an idiot. He hires idiots. I don't even mind keeping Wiggins so much, it's that he is paid like a star, played like a star, given a star role, and how on earth can everyone BUT our FO/Coach not see he is galaxies from being a star?

Tg11
01-02-2019, 01:26 PM
Which is why y'all should trade him and he can be someone else's problem

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 01:27 PM
Which is why y'all should trade him and he can be someone else's problem

I have sent an e-mail to Scott Layden. Just waiting on a response.

Chronz
01-02-2019, 02:02 PM
Must be fun being a twolves fan

Scoots
01-02-2019, 02:55 PM
Which is why y'all should trade him and he can be someone else's problem

That was his point ... the owner likes him, if the owner likes him how are you going to trade him?

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 03:33 PM
Must be fun being a twolves fan

nearly as fun as being a Clips fan :)

I mean, dude, it sucks. But outside something wiping my memory clean, what the eff am I going to do?

Hey at least all the other MN mens teams are good, right? (sarcasm-we suck at everything except chick sports)

TakeYourL
01-02-2019, 04:12 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Maybe make the "amnesty" rule not just a one time usage, but maybe every two seasons or at least able to be used again?

Let teams cut whoever the hell they want when they want tbh.

There is 0 benefit to the league, except to owners profit by not allowing this.

Forcing teams to keep players and effectively destroy their salary cap for a player they don't want or is injured is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.



The NFL has non guaranteed contracts and 22 different starters with 11 on offense and 11 on defense. Signing one guy to a bad contract usually doesnít make or break a team like it does in the NBA. Plus, with 7 draft rounds and virtually no foreign competition, the best of the best come out of college and the sinkers sink real quick. Itís like comparing apples and toothpicks.

I agree that teams should be smarter and maybe thereís a way the league can help them but everyone knew Wiggins wasnít worth it when they signed him. Didnít they not wait for RFA and just maxed him as early as they could with no offer sheets from other teams to match? Or am I thinking of someone else?

And if all of the owners got together to collude with each other, A) itíd be illegal and B) those second tier players would just all sign with already good/great teams and not think twice about staying in the small markets. If the Wiz wouldíve said John Wall wasnít worth the max only the Wiz could offer, heíd sign anywhere else for the league max. And I bet he wouldnít consider the Orlandos and the Indianas of the league.

Honestly, teams need to let their coaching/managerial staff go if they canít get **** done. Bad owners shouldnít be rewarded for their dumb hires. And bad owners should just get out, but as long as they make a lot of money, things wonít change. Maybe divvy up the profits at the end of the year and the worst teams get the least profit sharing.

That's my whole point, NFL has the ability to rebuild teams quick, because they have more flexibility.

NBA has completely taken that ability away.

Let's take Gordon for instance. It's no one's fault his foot died. But it happened in his first game.

Now let's be serious, the Celtics have the talent, youth, coach, and assets to make a real run a ship against the GSW.

What's holding them back? Gordon and his dead foot. Wouldn't the NBA be better if they could just dump him and add someone else?

Wouldn't the NBA be better without bum franchises like the sun's and phily doing a 5 year God damn tank job?

We have a league where teams are tanking for 5 freaking years! This is insane that the NBA allows this. This is easily the dumbest thing going on in sports right now.

Scoots
01-02-2019, 04:19 PM
nearly as fun as being a Clips fan :)

I mean, dude, it sucks. But outside something wiping my memory clean, what the eff am I going to do?

Hey at least all the other MN mens teams are good, right? (sarcasm-we suck at everything except chick sports)

You are part of a fan base that is in a place many other fan bases have been in. Waiting for a bad owner to sell or die.

Bad owners might occasionally win, but it's not the way to bet.

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 04:20 PM
You are part of a fan base that is in a place many other fan bases have been in. Waiting for a bad owner to sell or die.

Bad owners might occasionally win, but it's not the way to bet.

yep, pretty much. Bad owners in small markets stand nearly 0 chance though.

Scoots
01-02-2019, 04:28 PM
Let teams cut whoever the hell they want when they want tbh.

There is 0 benefit to the league, except to owners profit by not allowing this.

Forcing teams to keep players and effectively destroy their salary cap for a player they don't want or is injured is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.

Blame the players. They negotiated for guaranteed contracts.

Scoots
01-02-2019, 04:30 PM
yep, pretty much. Bad owners in small markets stand nearly 0 chance though.

Honestly I don't think it has to do with the size of the market. There are issues with small markets, but great owners seem to win regardless of market and bad owners don't win even with the best markets (Lakers, Knicks, Clippers, etc.).

Hawkeye15
01-02-2019, 04:31 PM
Honestly I don't think it has to do with the size of the market. There are issues with small markets, but great owners seem to win regardless of market and bad owners don't win even with the best markets (Lakers, Knicks, Clippers, etc.).

I mean it makes it harder being a small market when you have a ****** owner. It's nearly impossible to win it all with a bad owner in a big market, and i think that shifts to totally impossible in a small market.

Saddletramp
01-02-2019, 05:09 PM
Let teams cut whoever the hell they want when they want tbh.

There is 0 benefit to the league, except to owners profit by not allowing this.

Forcing teams to keep players and effectively destroy their salary cap for a player they don't want or is injured is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.




That's my whole point, NFL has the ability to rebuild teams quick, because they have more flexibility.

NBA has completely taken that ability away.

Let's take Gordon for instance. It's no one's fault his foot died. But it happened in his first game.

Now let's be serious, the Celtics have the talent, youth, coach, and assets to make a real run a ship against the GSW.

What's holding them back? Gordon and his dead foot. Wouldn't the NBA be better if they could just dump him and add someone else?

Wouldn't the NBA be better without bum franchises like the sun's and phily doing a 5 year God damn tank job?

We have a league where teams are tanking for 5 freaking years! This is insane that the NBA allows this. This is easily the dumbest thing going on in sports right now.

The only reason the NFL has non guaranteed contracts is because of how physical the sport is. Guaranteed contracts will never go away in the NBA. Get over it.

valade16
01-02-2019, 05:13 PM
Let teams cut whoever the hell they want when they want tbh.

There is 0 benefit to the league, except to owners profit by not allowing this.

Forcing teams to keep players and effectively destroy their salary cap for a player they don't want or is injured is the dumbest ish I've ever seen.




That's my whole point, NFL has the ability to rebuild teams quick, because they have more flexibility.

NBA has completely taken that ability away.

Let's take Gordon for instance. It's no one's fault his foot died. But it happened in his first game.

Now let's be serious, the Celtics have the talent, youth, coach, and assets to make a real run a ship against the GSW.

What's holding them back? Gordon and his dead foot. Wouldn't the NBA be better if they could just dump him and add someone else?

Wouldn't the NBA be better without bum franchises like the sun's and phily doing a 5 year God damn tank job?

We have a league where teams are tanking for 5 freaking years! This is insane that the NBA allows this. This is easily the dumbest thing going on in sports right now.

The league might be better off, but the players wouldn't be. The only way this would happen is if teams were allowed to cut the player's salary off their cap but they still had to pay the player their salary. But if teams are this stupid with spending already, they would quickly incur massive debts paying cut players $20 mil to get them off their cap and sign a different player for $20 million. Meaning they now have to pay $40 million.

Iron24th
01-02-2019, 05:21 PM
I'm a Knicks fan so yes this is exactly what I support.

But in all honesty, imo it has to happen. Rebuilding, tanking, drafting, signing free agents is a 4 year process most of the time.

Who the hell wants to wait that long, it's insane, in the NFL teams rebuild in one off season, and it's a 10x more competitive league because of that.

1 bad signing can destroy any hopes of a championship for years, it's idioitc that the NBA allows this to continue.

Punishing teams and their fans for years, for trying to win is the absolute dumbest thing the NBA has ever done, and I mostly support what nba execs do.

I'm a Lalers fan and just come from a 5 years rebuilding process, but I can't blame the NBA for the stupidity of mitch kupchak and jim buss, they almost threw max money to freakin mozgov and deng?!?!?!?!?!

How is it the NBA's fault to be that dumb?!
They're supposed to be professionals and act like it, the NBA should not be allowed to fix stupid mistakes like that.

Go get a better FO just like us, it took magic and pelinka less than 2 years to fix all past FO's mistakes.

Dolan has to go, and only then things will get better but thr NBA has nothing to do with it.

IndyRealist
01-02-2019, 06:10 PM
The only reason the NFL has non guaranteed contracts is because of how physical the sport is. Guaranteed contracts will never go away in the NBA. Get over it.

That and the NFL union is crap.

Saddletramp
01-02-2019, 06:20 PM
That and the NFL union is crap.

Yeah, but I think the physicality would be an instant ďHell nah!Ē from the owners if the NFLPA ever seriously asked for guaranteed contracts, regardless of how good their leadership was.

Scoots
01-02-2019, 06:28 PM
I mean it makes it harder being a small market when you have a ****** owner. It's nearly impossible to win it all with a bad owner in a big market, and i think that shifts to totally impossible in a small market.

San Antonio was 1.1M when they won their first title. It's not impossible, just really hard (they tanked AND got lucky).

smith&wesson
01-02-2019, 11:52 PM
Wiggins needs to be on a team with strong leadership.

Guys like Teague, Rose, Gibson are solid vets but not leaders. I think if Wiggens was traded to a team that has vets who are strong leaders and a players coach that can motivate, he would be better off.

The Twolves really should have kept Levine and traded Wiggins but hindsight is a *****

Hawkeye15
01-03-2019, 12:01 AM
San Antonio was 1.1M when they won their first title. It's not impossible, just really hard (they tanked AND got lucky).

Yeah but they have a very competent owner. I thought that was the point here

Scoots
01-03-2019, 01:59 AM
Yeah but they have a very competent owner. I thought that was the point here

It is, but you said it was all but impossible in a small market, and I was just saying that it's just harder, but not impossible or near impossible.

Bad owners always suck. Great owners usually win.

Tg11
01-03-2019, 07:45 AM
Wiggins had a great game last night against my Celtics but Wiggins to me is still a scrub...KAT is the true star of the team plain and simple KAT more or less dominated scoring over 20 in a single quarter but KAT defensively is much more sound than Wiggins is

Now teams Wiggins can go to that he would be much better off with leaders and a great player-coach that can motivate this scrub...would have to be the San Antonio Spurs for Wiggins

Hawkeye15
01-03-2019, 01:07 PM
It is, but you said it was all but impossible in a small market, and I was just saying that it's just harder, but not impossible or near impossible.

Bad owners always suck. Great owners usually win.

Well, I followed up on the bad owner odds. Meaning, when you have a bad owner, you have zero chance in a small market.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2019, 01:09 PM
Wiggins had a great game last night against my Celtics but Wiggins to me is still a scrub...KAT is the true star of the team plain and simple KAT more or less dominated scoring over 20 in a single quarter but KAT defensively is much more sound than Wiggins is

Now teams Wiggins can go to that he would be much better off with leaders and a great player-coach that can motivate this scrub...would have to be the San Antonio Spurs for Wiggins

he played well offensively, which he does for small streaks then fades for 20 games. But he didn't guard anyone last night. He continually allows opponents to blow by him, and his close outs are as lazy as it gets.

I know we were short 2 perimeter players in Rose/Cov, but his overall game just sucks. That being said, I would take that Wiggins from last night all year and live with his money. Problem is, we only see that Wiggins about 10-15 times a year.

TakeYourL
01-03-2019, 01:44 PM
Blame the players. They negotiated for guaranteed contracts.


The only reason the NFL has non guaranteed contracts is because of how physical the sport is. Guaranteed contracts will never go away in the NBA. Get over it.


The league might be better off, but the players wouldn't be. The only way this would happen is if teams were allowed to cut the player's salary off their cap but they still had to pay the player their salary. But if teams are this stupid with spending already, they would quickly incur massive debts paying cut players $20 mil to get them off their cap and sign a different player for $20 million. Meaning they now have to pay $40 million.

You guys are missing the point, I'm not advocating taking money away from players at all.

I'm just saying if a team wants to get the contract off it's salary cap, there should be a way to do that whenever and to whoever they want.

The NBA allowing a single player to hold an entire franchise and it's fans, and the league hostage is the dumbest system in sports history.

There are WAY to many bad teams in the NBA because of this. Basically 1/3 of the NBA is in tank mode, it's a joke, good teams don't even take the regular season serious until after all star break.

You could fully rebuild a team in 2-3 years easy if you got rid of this ridiculously strict salary cap system.

Hawkeye15
01-03-2019, 03:47 PM
You guys are missing the point, I'm not advocating taking money away from players at all.

I'm just saying if a team wants to get the contract off it's salary cap, there should be a way to do that whenever and to whoever they want.

The NBA allowing a single player to hold an entire franchise and it's fans, and the league hostage is the dumbest system in sports history.

There are WAY to many bad teams in the NBA because of this. Basically 1/3 of the NBA is in tank mode, it's a joke, good teams don't even take the regular season serious until after all star break.

You could fully rebuild a team in 2-3 years easy if you got rid of this ridiculously strict salary cap system.

disagree. What will happen, is smaller market teams will be forced to "guarantee" that money in order to get players to sign or stay. Allowing fiscal irresponsibility is never a good thing. The NFL has massive amounts of injuries, so teams NEED that ability to cut ties. The NBA players union would strike until we forgot about basketball before they allow contracts to go unsecured.

There are way too many bad teams because of 2 things:

1- terrible management
2- there are only so many difference makers and they are starting to load up on a handful of teams

16 of the last 16 years, an NFL team has gone worst to first in their division. In the NBA, it's the same ****ing teams every year. The season is basically written before it even starts. THAT is why teams tank if they aren't contending, because it's literally the only way to get better.

I would be way happier with a strict hardcap, and get rid of contract structure, ie, pay LeBron the entire cap if you want, but here is how much you have to build a team, get at it.

Scoots
01-03-2019, 06:32 PM
You guys are missing the point, I'm not advocating taking money away from players at all.

I'm just saying if a team wants to get the contract off it's salary cap, there should be a way to do that whenever and to whoever they want.

The NBA allowing a single player to hold an entire franchise and it's fans, and the league hostage is the dumbest system in sports history.

There are WAY to many bad teams in the NBA because of this. Basically 1/3 of the NBA is in tank mode, it's a joke, good teams don't even take the regular season serious until after all star break.

You could fully rebuild a team in 2-3 years easy if you got rid of this ridiculously strict salary cap system.

We get it, but teams without extra money can't keep paying players for years who are not on the team, so if they are going to pay them anyhow they will keep them on the roster and make them work. It doesn't work to pay them and cut them when there is ANY potential there. It's just a non-starter for most owners.

Most people think the cap is not strict enough, not "ridiculously strict". Most fans seem to want a hard cap with little to no exceptions.

Scoots
01-03-2019, 06:35 PM
disagree. What will happen, is smaller market teams will be forced to "guarantee" that money in order to get players to sign or stay. Allowing fiscal irresponsibility is never a good thing. The NFL has massive amounts of injuries, so teams NEED that ability to cut ties. The NBA players union would strike until we forgot about basketball before they allow contracts to go unsecured.

There are way too many bad teams because of 2 things:

1- terrible management
2- there are only so many difference makers and they are starting to load up on a handful of teams

16 of the last 16 years, an NFL team has gone worst to first in their division. In the NBA, it's the same ****ing teams every year. The season is basically written before it even starts. THAT is why teams tank if they aren't contending, because it's literally the only way to get better.

I would be way happier with a strict hardcap, and get rid of contract structure, ie, pay LeBron the entire cap if you want, but here is how much you have to build a team, get at it.

I think the NFL does a much much better job developing talent than the NBA does, and the nature of the games themselves minimizes the value of any one player in the NFL. In the NBA great teams have succeeded despite "lesser talent" it's just that the teams are too impatient and the opportunities to develop talent are so limited the windows are much smaller and opportunities to develop real teams too few.

IndyRealist
01-03-2019, 07:16 PM
You guys are missing the point, I'm not advocating taking money away from players at all.

I'm just saying if a team wants to get the contract off it's salary cap, there should be a way to do that whenever and to whoever they want.

The NBA allowing a single player to hold an entire franchise and it's fans, and the league hostage is the dumbest system in sports history.

There are WAY to many bad teams in the NBA because of this. Basically 1/3 of the NBA is in tank mode, it's a joke, good teams don't even take the regular season serious until after all star break.

You could fully rebuild a team in 2-3 years easy if you got rid of this ridiculously strict salary cap system.

The only team that could afford to do that are the big markets. Paying out a big contract without even having that player will cause small markets to cut payroll to save money regardless.

FlashBolt
01-03-2019, 07:27 PM
NBA already gives some options such as stretching the contract. I mean, you can't really blame a team for investing in a player when they clearly don't deserve it. And yes, the majority of overpaid contracts are obvious bad ones. Chandler Parsons? Check. Joakim Noah? Check. But what you're ultimately doing is disincentivizing the importance of great management. Owning an NBA team is a business. No owner purchases with the hope or expectation of losing money. It's their job to make sure they hire the right people to manage the team. If you're going to allow teams to simply eliminate a bad contract, you're allowing for more risks to be made (which means more bad contracts) and also, you're incentivizing the teams that can afford to pay off bad contracts to have more leverage because now they can simply pay those contracts off and move on to the next big thing whereas now, NYC might be an attractive market but Noah's contract before he was waived was an absolute black eye. Teams like the Lakers would have been able to get rid of bad contracts and be a prime contender for free agents to sign in since all it would take would be for the Lakers to make those bad contracts disappear instead of being in a gridlock waiting for contracts to trade or expire. It simply would cause more problems than it would solve.

Saddletramp
01-04-2019, 04:50 AM
You guys are missing the point, I'm not advocating taking money away from players at all.


You want the NBA to mirror the NFL, which has non guaranteed contracts. Thatís taking money away from the players.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 10:34 AM
I think the NFL does a much much better job developing talent than the NBA does, and the nature of the games themselves minimizes the value of any one player in the NFL. In the NBA great teams have succeeded despite "lesser talent" it's just that the teams are too impatient and the opportunities to develop talent are so limited the windows are much smaller and opportunities to develop real teams too few.

well, 11 players on the field at a time, and a massive field help negate the impact of 1 guy.

I also think the reason development is slowed in the NBA, is the contracts are guaranteed, ie, they are WAY less jobs available.

TakeYourL
01-04-2019, 11:17 AM
disagree. What will happen, is smaller market teams will be forced to "guarantee" that money in order to get players to sign or stay. Allowing fiscal irresponsibility is never a good thing. The NFL has massive amounts of injuries, so teams NEED that ability to cut ties. The NBA players union would strike until we forgot about basketball before they allow contracts to go unsecured.

There are way too many bad teams because of 2 things:

1- terrible management
2- there are only so many difference makers and they are starting to load up on a handful of teams

16 of the last 16 years, an NFL team has gone worst to first in their division. In the NBA, it's the same ****ing teams every year. The season is basically written before it even starts. THAT is why teams tank if they aren't contending, because it's literally the only way to get better.

I would be way happier with a strict hardcap, and get rid of contract structure, ie, pay LeBron the entire cap if you want, but here is how much you have to build a team, get at it.

As I stated earlier i still support all contracts being guaranteed still.

You guys act like the nba has never allowed teams to do this before, they have, and it was just fine.

And yes I know the NFL operates differently, but the fact is they have flexibility which is why teams can go from worst to first in one off season.

NBA has 0 flexibility, you build your roster, and than you make a free agent splash signing or 2, and if it doesn't work out, your on the 5 year plan.

Any who tries to argue this is a good system is delusional.

Who the heck wants to wait 5 years, 5 years, just for some salary cap space, lol, this shouldn't not be considered acceptable to anyone.

For fck sake, that's longer than a presidential term LOL.


We get it, but teams without extra money can't keep paying players for years who are not on the team, so if they are going to pay them anyhow they will keep them on the roster and make them work. It doesn't work to pay them and cut them when there is ANY potential there. It's just a non-starter for most owners.

Most people think the cap is not strict enough, not "ridiculously strict". Most fans seem to want a hard cap with little to no exceptions.

Lmao who the heck thinks the cap isn't strict enough? The amount of hoops teams have to go through just to sign a single player is a joke.

Even for a cheap player teams have to rework their entire roster and salary cap space, wait for a specific date to sign them, just for some random bench dude.



And stop with the small market teams are victims nonsense already. This has been proven nonsense.

The nba has revenue sharing. Without it they wouldn't be able to tank for 5 freaking years because they would be operating in the red.

Small market teams are literally surviving and thriving off big market teams. They wouldn't exist without revenue sharing.


The only team that could afford to do that are the big markets. Paying out a big contract without even having that player will cause small markets to cut payroll to save money regardless.

The big market teams would have the advantage to do it more often, yes, but this doesn't hurt the smallmarket teams in any way.

5 year rebuilds hurt small market teams, and the NBA in general FAR more than this does.


You want the NBA to mirror the NFL, which has non guaranteed contracts. Thatís taking money away from the players.

No I don't, the NBA has allowed teams to do this in the past, and it was a massive success.

The NBA owners just don't want to be in a position where they have to spend more money.

They have the money though, don't let them fool you. They forced this rule on themselves for profit, that's it.

The NBA union would applaud the change and so would many NBA owners.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 11:42 AM
As I stated earlier i still support all contracts being guaranteed still.

You guys act like the nba has never allowed teams to do this before, they have, and it was just fine.

And yes I know the NFL operates differently, but the fact is they have flexibility which is why teams can go from worst to first in one off season.

NBA has 0 flexibility, you build your roster, and than you make a free agent splash signing or 2, and if it doesn't work out, your on the 5 year plan.

Any who tries to argue this is a good system is delusional.

Who the heck wants to wait 5 years, 5 years, just for some salary cap space, lol, this shouldn't not be considered acceptable to anyone.

For fck sake, that's longer than a presidential term LOL.



Lmao who the heck thinks the cap isn't strict enough? The amount of hoops teams have to go through just to sign a single player is a joke.

Even for a cheap player teams have to rework their entire roster and salary cap space, wait for a specific date to sign them, just for some random bench dude.



And stop with the small market teams are victims nonsense already. This has been proven nonsense.

The nba has revenue sharing. Without it they wouldn't be able to tank for 5 freaking years because they would be operating in the red.

Small market teams are literally surviving and thriving off big market teams. They wouldn't exist without revenue sharing.



The big market teams would have the advantage to do it more often, yes, but this doesn't hurt the smallmarket teams in any way.

5 year rebuilds hurt small market teams, and the NBA in general FAR more than this does.



No I don't, the NBA has allowed teams to do this in the past, and it was a massive success.

The NBA owners just don't want to be in a position where they have to spend more money.

They have the money though, don't let them fool you. They forced this rule on themselves for profit, that's it.

The NBA union would applaud the change and so would many NBA owners.

And I was absolutely, 10000000000000% against the amnesty clause. I do not feel we should reward teams that spend irrationally, and it straight up hurt my team, and helped some large market teams.

Under no circumstance in non-real life impacting scenarios can I be onboard with rewarding fiscal irresponsibility. None.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 11:44 AM
if anything large markets should have advantages against them, and vice versa for small markets. If we actually want competitive balance, there are ways. Or better balance that is.

IndyRealist
01-04-2019, 12:30 PM
It hurts small markets by giving large markets more tools to acquire star players. Small market teams cannot AFFORD to amnesty any big contracts that matter. So small markets are still stuck on payroll, while large markets can cut and open cap space whenever they want. That hurts small markets by improving their competition's chances to poach marquee players.

TakeYourL
01-04-2019, 02:22 PM
And I was absolutely, 10000000000000% against the amnesty clause. I do not feel we should reward teams that spend irrationally, and it straight up hurt my team, and helped some large market teams.

Under no circumstance in non-real life impacting scenarios can I be onboard with rewarding fiscal irresponsibility. None.

Haha "fiscally irresponsible", this isn't the national debt it's a freaking pro sport team. Lmao at worrying about billionaires making a little less profit.

Fiscally irresponsible is revenue sharing and allowing teams like Minnesota, etc to be garbage for 10 years, sell no tickets, and survive in the NBA by simply leeching from Revenue sharing.

Small market teams couldn't tank without revenue sharing, those teams would be out of the NBA which quite frankly would be a good thing too, more talent to go around.

The amnesty clause worked. Teams should be allowed to use it more often.

Look at Minnesota for instance they did everything on paper the right way,it didn't work out, but wanted to win, they tried to win, they spent the $, and got the kond of players they wanted, on paper everything looked tk be going the right way, it just didn't work out, so now they should be punished for trying to win?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You a Minnesota fan would rather suffer for years with Wiggins contract, than amnesty is dumb ***.

Thats so stupid and pointless.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 02:52 PM
Haha "fiscally irresponsible", this isn't the national debt it's a freaking pro sport team. Lmao at worrying about billionaires making a little less profit.

Fiscally irresponsible is revenue sharing and allowing teams like Minnesota, etc to be garbage for 10 years, sell no tickets, and survive in the NBA by simply leeching from Revenue sharing.

Small market teams couldn't tank without revenue sharing, those teams would be out of the NBA which quite frankly would be a good thing too, more talent to go around.

The amnesty clause worked. Teams should be allowed to use it more often.

Look at Minnesota for instance they did everything on paper the right way,it didn't work out, but wanted to win, they tried to win, they spent the $, and got the kond of players they wanted, on paper everything looked tk be going the right way, it just didn't work out, so now they should be punished for trying to win?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You a Minnesota fan would rather suffer for years with Wiggins contract, than amnesty is dumb ***.

Thats so stupid and pointless.

Yes, I would rather suffer with Wiggins contract, than allow large market teams to give them away like candy and then let them off the hook. Make Taylor suffer. Yes.

valade16
01-04-2019, 03:02 PM
The worst part about the bad contracts is that for the most part, every fan knows they're a bad contract the moment they're signed. If all of us plebs can see a disastrous decision a mile away, why can't the GM getting paid to make those calls?

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 03:05 PM
The worst part about the bad contracts is that for the most part, every fan knows they're a bad contract the moment they're signed. If all of us plebs can see a disastrous decision a mile away, why can't the GM getting paid to make those calls?

to be fair, what is MN doing with that cap space if they don't sign Wiggins? let him walk, they don't just all of a sudden create $28 million a year in capspace. Too much tied up elsewhere.

It's easy for us to see an individual deal is terrible. But we don't know everything that goes into it. I tend to judge front offices on bigger timelines. Now that being said, the Wolves FO has been awful for 30 years, but I just don't think we can judge each deal entirely without knowing everything that went into it.

valade16
01-04-2019, 03:13 PM
to be fair, what is MN doing with that cap space if they don't sign Wiggins? let him walk, they don't just all of a sudden create $28 million a year in capspace. Too much tied up elsewhere.

It's easy for us to see an individual deal is terrible. But we don't know everything that goes into it. I tend to judge front offices on bigger timelines. Now that being said, the Wolves FO has been awful for 30 years, but I just don't think we can judge each deal entirely without knowing everything that went into it.

I wasn't so much speaking to the Wiggins contract as there was at least the possibility of improvement. I'm talking about the deals like the one to Mozgov. Or the one to Joakim Noah. or Ryan Anderson. Or Evan Turner.

There was no way those players were ever going to live up to the value of those contracts, and even accounting for the state of each teams cap space it was horrible.

For the Evan Turner one, the justification was the cap had spiked and they had to use that money anyway or else it would essentially have been wasted and they couldn't have signed anyone the next year since they'd be over the cap. But the problem is all those deals with that idea in mind (Crabbe, Turner, Meyers Leonard, Harkless), have become so toxic to the cap they are worse than had they simply not done those contracts and had more flexibility.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 03:22 PM
I wasn't so much speaking to the Wiggins contract as there was at least the possibility of improvement. I'm talking about the deals like the one to Mozgov. Or the one to Joakim Noah. or Ryan Anderson. Or Evan Turner.

There was no way those players were ever going to live up to the value of those contracts, and even accounting for the state of each teams cap space it was horrible.

For the Evan Turner one, the justification was the cap had spiked and they had to use that money anyway or else it would essentially have been wasted and they couldn't have signed anyone the next year since they'd be over the cap. But the problem is all those deals with that idea in mind (Crabbe, Turner, Meyers Leonard, Harkless), have become so toxic to the cap they are worse than had they simply not done those contracts and had more flexibility.

no doubt there are some deals that just make you wonder why some of these GM's have a job. I am more so talking overall about contracts, my reply wasn't at you specifically, I know you are plenty smart enough to realize not everything done contractually will be understood by us fans.

IndyRealist
01-04-2019, 04:52 PM
Haha "fiscally irresponsible", this isn't the national debt it's a freaking pro sport team. Lmao at worrying about billionaires making a little less profit.

Fiscally irresponsible is revenue sharing and allowing teams like Minnesota, etc to be garbage for 10 years, sell no tickets, and survive in the NBA by simply leeching from Revenue sharing.

Small market teams couldn't tank without revenue sharing, those teams would be out of the NBA which quite frankly would be a good thing too, more talent to go around.

The amnesty clause worked. Teams should be allowed to use it more often.

Look at Minnesota for instance they did everything on paper the right way,it didn't work out, but wanted to win, they tried to win, they spent the $, and got the kond of players they wanted, on paper everything looked tk be going the right way, it just didn't work out, so now they should be punished for trying to win?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You a Minnesota fan would rather suffer for years with Wiggins contract, than amnesty is dumb ***.

Thats so stupid and pointless.

It's a business. They didn't get to be billionaires by following advice like yours.

Saddletramp
01-04-2019, 05:07 PM
I wasn't so much speaking to the Wiggins contract as there was at least the possibility of improvement. I'm talking about the deals like the one to Mozgov. Or the one to Joakim Noah. or Ryan Anderson. Or Evan Turner.

There was no way those players were ever going to live up to the value of those contracts, and even accounting for the state of each teams cap space it was horrible.

For the Evan Turner one, the justification was the cap had spiked and they had to use that money anyway or else it would essentially have been wasted and they couldn't have signed anyone the next year since they'd be over the cap. But the problem is all those deals with that idea in mind (Crabbe, Turner, Meyers Leonard, Harkless), have become so toxic to the cap they are worse than had they simply not done those contracts and had more flexibility.

That Evan Turner scenario mirrors why the Rockets signed Ryan Anderson to that deal. There wasnít a whole lot of great players available that year for the money that was available. Thatís why Iíd be pissed if I was already under contract when they announced that cap spike 18 months prior.

Saddletramp
01-04-2019, 05:21 PM
Haha "fiscally irresponsible", this isn't the national debt it's a freaking pro sport team. Lmao at worrying about billionaires making a little less profit.

Fiscally irresponsible is revenue sharing and allowing teams like Minnesota, etc to be garbage for 10 years, sell no tickets, and survive in the NBA by simply leeching from Revenue sharing.

Small market teams couldn't tank without revenue sharing, those teams would be out of the NBA which quite frankly would be a good thing too, more talent to go around.

The amnesty clause worked. Teams should be allowed to use it more often.

Look at Minnesota for instance they did everything on paper the right way,it didn't work out, but wanted to win, they tried to win, they spent the $, and got the kond of players they wanted, on paper everything looked tk be going the right way, it just didn't work out, so now they should be punished for trying to win?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You a Minnesota fan would rather suffer for years with Wiggins contract, than amnesty is dumb ***.

Thats so stupid and pointless.

You have no clue as to what youíre talking about. You want the NFL way yet donít want what the NFL offers. You say who cares about billionaires making less money. Guess who cares? They do. And they write the rules.


Take your screen name advice and take the L, bro.

valade16
01-04-2019, 05:35 PM
That Evan Turner scenario mirrors why the Rockets signed Ryan Anderson to that deal. There wasnít a whole lot of great players available that year for the money that was available. Thatís why Iíd be pissed if I was already under contract when they announced that cap spike 18 months prior.

The thinking is that "well we may overpay now but if it doesn't work out at least we have an asset to trade later" and then it turns out they're not an asset at all.

TakeYourL
01-04-2019, 06:10 PM
Yes, I would rather suffer with Wiggins contract, than allow large market teams to give them away like candy and then let them off the hook. Make Taylor suffer. Yes.

Give what away like candy lol, what are they giving away?

You cut a player, other teams bid on that player, winning team pays his salary while you pay the rest. But it comes off your salary cap.

Everyone gets what they want. Let teams do this once a year,and bad teams will be rebuilding overnight. We'll have a competitive NBA again, with lots of player movement which fans love.



Lol at defending that it's ok for fans to wait 5 freaking years for a team to rebuild.

That's why minny has no fans, spent the last 18/20 years rebuilding.

You can get a god damn masters degree in the time it takes to rebuild. This is completely pointless.

Lmao at small market teams still playing the victim roll. Minny got damn near EVERYONE they wanted and still sucked.

Can't blame the owner or gm for that, and cant play the, "but we're a small market team" either.

These things happen, no point punishing the entire NBA because you actually tried to win.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 06:14 PM
Give what away like candy lol, what are they giving away?

You cut a player, other teams bid on that player, winning team pays his salary while you pay the rest. But it comes off your salary cap.

Everyone gets what they want. Let teams do this once a year,and bad teams will be rebuilding overnight. We'll have a competitive NBA again, with lots of player movement which fans love.



Lol at defending that it's ok for fans to wait 5 freaking years for a team to rebuild.

That's why minny has no fans, spent the last 18/20 years rebuilding.

You can get a god damn masters degree in the time it takes to rebuild. This is completely pointless.

Lmao at small market teams still playing the victim roll. Minny got damn near EVERYONE they wanted and still sucked.

Can't blame the owner or gm for that, and cant play the, "but we're a small market team" either.

These things happen, no point punishing the entire NBA because you actually tried to win.

Type a million words, it doesn't matter to me. I am not for rewarding fiscal irresponsibility. And my mind doesn't change when it would help my team or hurt it.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2019, 06:16 PM
who exactly do you think gets amnestied TYL? Hint-it aint good players. So scooping up crappy players doesn't make you better. Scooping up 36 year old Michael Finley doesn't make you better.

Anyways, my position has never changed. You sign a guy to a deal, it's your problem if it doesn't work out.

TakeYourL
01-04-2019, 06:26 PM
Type a million words, it doesn't matter to me. I am not for rewarding fiscal irresponsibility. And my mind doesn't change when it would help my team or hurt it.

That's a weak copout.

If fiscally responsibility mattered to you, you would of told Minny to pack their bags and close their doors a long time ago.

Because they have been on the revenue sharing welfare program longer than anyone in the NBA.

TakeYourL
01-04-2019, 06:37 PM
who exactly do you think gets amnestied TYL? Hint-it aint good players. So scooping up crappy players doesn't make you better. Scooping up 36 year old Michael Finley doesn't make you better.

Anyways, my position has never changed. You sign a guy to a deal, it's your problem if it doesn't work out.

Lets say you decided to amnesty Wiggins and persue a top tier free agent at the end of the season.

You don't think there are multiple teams that would jump in to sign him and bid for him? They won't pay what Minny is, but they'll take a huge chunk of that contract off minnys hands for sure.

He's not worth what he makes but he still has value. His agent could still tell other teams that it was the coaches fault, etc, and convince other teams it will work out for them.

Wiggins gets a new start, but still gets his $, Minny has their cap space back, and can get back to trying to win while they have a prime Towns, and a free agent has another option for teams he can sign with.

I can't believe you would think it's a good system to allow towns prime go down the drain in Minny the same way that happened to Garnett.

It's so completely pointless.

valade16
01-04-2019, 06:43 PM
Lets say you decided to amnesty Wiggins and persue a top tier free agent at the end of the season.

You don't think there are multiple teams that would jump in to sign him and bid for him? They won't pay what Minny is, but they'll take a huge chunk of that contract off minnys hands for sure.

He's not worth what he makes but he still has value. His agent could still tell other teams that it was the coaches fault, etc, and convince other teams it will work out for them.

Wiggins gets a new start, but still gets his $, Minny has their cap space back, and can get back to trying to win while they have a prime Towns, and a free agent has another option for teams he can sign with.

I can't believe you would think it's a good system to allow towns prime go down the drain in Minny the same way that happened to Garnett.

It's so completely pointless.

You don't seem to foresee that wealthy teams will be able to sign, amnesty, then sign other players far more than the smaller market teams.

Minnesota has a finite amount of money. They are currently spending $120 million on their cap. If they amnesty Wiggins $25 million off their cap and could hypothetically bid on another Free Agent they'd still have to pay that money, it just wouldn't count towards the cap.

So now they're paying $145 million and if they sign a Free Agent for say Wiggins amount, now they're paying $170 million in salary (of which only $145 million would be on the cap). The Timberwolves cannot afford to pay that much money on player salary.

But you know who could afford it? Large market teams. So New York could be paying $120 million right now, Amnesty $40 million of it and then use that $40 million to get another $40 million player. They could afford to pay the $200 million in total salary to make that worth it.

Small market teams could not.

All your plan does is give more opportunity for large market teams to get more good players.

Saddletramp
01-04-2019, 06:58 PM
The thinking is that "well we may overpay now but if it doesn't work out at least we have an asset to trade later" and then it turns out they're not an asset at all.

Oh, I got you but it was either use it or lose it and Anderson was a great fit at the 4. Just not at that price. The cap spike year raised all boats. For a year. Those contracts are anomalies. But if this was a year earlier, a player like him wouldíve gotten less. Same for Mozgov. But wasnít Noahís the next year? And he was already broken unlike the other guys.

IKnowHoops
01-04-2019, 10:31 PM
Even though he has been underwhelming...his take is spot on.

IKnowHoops
01-04-2019, 10:43 PM
That's a weak copout.

If fiscally responsibility mattered to you, you would of told Minny to pack their bags and close their doors a long time ago.

Because they have been on the revenue sharing welfare program longer than anyone in the NBA.

The only diff between MN and the Lakers is Lebron James. If Minn had beaches instead of -50 windchill factor, they would all of a sudden be fiscally responsible. If all you get is draft picks and no free agents, you gotta just get extremely lucky...itís not all about the front office at that point.

Chronz
01-05-2019, 02:29 PM
nearly as fun as being a Clips fan :)

I mean, dude, it sucks. But outside something wiping my memory clean, what the eff am I going to do?

Hey at least all the other MN mens teams are good, right? (sarcasm-we suck at everything except chick sports)

Yeah but we're the butt of the joke because we reside in the place of your states former team. Its one thing to be a second fiddle clippers fan in la, quite another to be a fan of a team that lost that same team and still struggles to make footing. Its how I know people who want the clippers to relocate don't get the picture.

Hawkeye15
01-05-2019, 02:38 PM
Yeah but we're the butt of the joke because we reside in the place of your states former team. Its one thing to be a second fiddle clippers fan in la, quite another to be a fan of a team that lost that same team and still struggles to make footing. Its how I know people who want the clippers to relocate don't get the picture.

Well I am not 75 years old so the MN history isn't important. If we want to rank teams on how ****** it is to be a fan of, be my guest. I don't evsn care enough about the NBA anymore to get involved in that one. MN sports are a joke unless the athletes have a vagina. Is what it is.

TakeYourL
01-05-2019, 02:59 PM
You don't seem to foresee that wealthy teams will be able to sign, amnesty, then sign other players far more than the smaller market teams.

Minnesota has a finite amount of money. They are currently spending $120 million on their cap. If they amnesty Wiggins $25 million off their cap and could hypothetically bid on another Free Agent they'd still have to pay that money, it just wouldn't count towards the cap.

So now they're paying $145 million and if they sign a Free Agent for say Wiggins amount, now they're paying $170 million in salary (of which only $145 million would be on the cap). The Timberwolves cannot afford to pay that much money on player salary.

But you know who could afford it? Large market teams. So New York could be paying $120 million right now, Amnesty $40 million of it and then use that $40 million to get another $40 million player. They could afford to pay the $200 million in total salary to make that worth it.

Small market teams could not.

All your plan does is give more opportunity for large market teams to get more good players.

I do understand all of that, but larger market teams will always have an advantage no matter what.

It has nothing to do with larger markets or money or salary cap space, it has to do with the fact no one wants to live in dumpy crap hole boring cities.

Nothing is ever going to change that, you are never going to build a system where players are willingly going to live in Cleveland or Memphis, it's not happening.




Making the entire NBA, the most popular teams, most popular players, the fans, general managers, coaches, and tv networks bend over backwards to help never ending failing small market teams has been a complete failure and it needs to be scrapped.

The current system demands that NBA teams tank, and operate at a loss for years, to even have a slight chance at any success in the future.

If you knew this was going to happen before you created the salary cap system, you would NEVER agree to this, no one would, it's a complete failure.

TakeYourL
01-05-2019, 04:46 PM
The only diff between MN and the Lakers is Lebron James. If Minn had beaches instead of -50 windchill factor, they would all of a sudden be fiscally responsible. If all you get is draft picks and no free agents, you gotta just get extremely lucky...itís not all about the front office at that point.

Agreed, that's kind of my point, why the hell is the entire league bending over backwards to help teams that are located in failing markets.

Pretty much 90% of what's wrong with the NBA is the fact they try to prop up franchises that operate in the red.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2019, 11:37 AM
You don't seem to foresee that wealthy teams will be able to sign, amnesty, then sign other players far more than the smaller market teams.

Minnesota has a finite amount of money. They are currently spending $120 million on their cap. If they amnesty Wiggins $25 million off their cap and could hypothetically bid on another Free Agent they'd still have to pay that money, it just wouldn't count towards the cap.

So now they're paying $145 million and if they sign a Free Agent for say Wiggins amount, now they're paying $170 million in salary (of which only $145 million would be on the cap). The Timberwolves cannot afford to pay that much money on player salary.

But you know who could afford it? Large market teams. So New York could be paying $120 million right now, Amnesty $40 million of it and then use that $40 million to get another $40 million player. They could afford to pay the $200 million in total salary to make that worth it.

Small market teams could not.

All your plan does is give more opportunity for large market teams to get more good players.

I mean, I am not really sure how he doesn't understand this. The Knicks or Lakers could amnesty a player a year and fill that spot, and continue to make money hand over fist while paying luxury tax out their eyeballs.

His plan give large markets advantages. Period. So damn straight I am not for it.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2019, 11:38 AM
I do understand all of that, but larger market teams will always have an advantage no matter what.

It has nothing to do with larger markets or money or salary cap space, it has to do with the fact no one wants to live in dumpy crap hole boring cities.

Nothing is ever going to change that, you are never going to build a system where players are willingly going to live in Cleveland or Memphis, it's not happening.




Making the entire NBA, the most popular teams, most popular players, the fans, general managers, coaches, and tv networks bend over backwards to help never ending failing small market teams has been a complete failure and it needs to be scrapped.

The current system demands that NBA teams tank, and operate at a loss for years, to even have a slight chance at any success in the future.

If you knew this was going to happen before you created the salary cap system, you would NEVER agree to this, no one would, it's a complete failure.

and now you want to give them a much larger one. No thanks.

If you want to fix it, cool. But the suggestions you are making don't do that. At all.

You do realize the NBA is a business, correct? Getting rid of teams because of the way you are laying it out (this would happen) isn't helping the NBA.

I mean the Lakers made money hand over fist while tanking. The business model itself is working and then some, the NBA makes more money by the year.

TakeYourL
01-07-2019, 12:38 PM
and now you want to give them a much larger one. No thanks.

If you want to fix it, cool. But the suggestions you are making don't do that. At all.

You do realize the NBA is a business, correct? Getting rid of teams because of the way you are laying it out (this would happen) isn't helping the NBA.

I mean the Lakers made money hand over fist while tanking. The business model itself is working and then some, the NBA makes more money by the year.

This is all nonsense, the NBA model is completely broken, small market teams are now demanding MORE money because they can't even pull a profit.

A few years ago, half the NBA teams lost money, after revenue sharing 9 teams still remained unprofitable.

Small market teams still crying about being victims of large market teams is a joke, we could cut those teams out of the NBA and profits, entertainment value, competitiveness, would all go up.

The NBA has completely castrated their product to help small market teams and the effect is obvious.

-Lack of talent to go around
-Coaches players and fans know NBA regular season is pointless
-top heavy league
-5 year rebuilds

All of this for what? To help Minnesota? I remember you could buy tickets to wolves games for 5$ and the arena was still empty.

You know what you do when a business performs bad, in a bad market? You shut down shop.

But not in the NBA. In the NBA you make the entire league bending over backwards to help a franchise that hasn't been relevant or profitable barely in the last 20 years.

What benefit does the NBA get out of this again.

valade16
01-07-2019, 12:42 PM
I do understand all of that, but larger market teams will always have an advantage no matter what.

It has nothing to do with larger markets or money or salary cap space, it has to do with the fact no one wants to live in dumpy crap hole boring cities.

Nothing is ever going to change that, you are never going to build a system where players are willingly going to live in Cleveland or Memphis, it's not happening.




Making the entire NBA, the most popular teams, most popular players, the fans, general managers, coaches, and tv networks bend over backwards to help never ending failing small market teams has been a complete failure and it needs to be scrapped.

The current system demands that NBA teams tank, and operate at a loss for years, to even have a slight chance at any success in the future.

If you knew this was going to happen before you created the salary cap system, you would NEVER agree to this, no one would, it's a complete failure.

First you admit that no NBA stars want to play for small market teams and then call the small market teams failures. But they are not failing because of their bad decisions, they're failing because of circumstances.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2019, 12:48 PM
This is all nonsense, the NBA model is completely broken, small market teams are now demanding MORE money because they can't even pull a profit.

A few years ago, half the NBA teams lost money, after revenue sharing 9 teams still remained unprofitable.

Small market teams still crying about being victims of large market teams is a joke, we could cut those teams out of the NBA and profits, entertainment value, competitiveness, would all go up.

The NBA has completely castrated their product to help small market teams and the effect is obvious.

-Lack of talent to go around
-Coaches players and fans know NBA regular season is pointless
-top heavy league
-5 year rebuilds

All of this for what? To help Minnesota? I remember you could buy tickets to wolves games for 5$ and the arena was still empty.

You know what you do when a business performs bad, in a bad market? You shut down shop.

But not in the NBA. In the NBA you make the entire league bending over backwards to help a franchise that hasn't been relevant or profitable barely in the last 20 years.

What benefit does the NBA get out of this again.

so you prefer to downsize a business plan that has kicked out increasing profits over the last decade like the sport has never seen before.

Got it. Well, I hope you don't run your own business. It won't work out if so.

TakeYourL
01-07-2019, 06:10 PM
First you admit that no NBA stars want to play for small market teams and then call the small market teams failures. But they are not failing because of their bad decisions, they're failing because of circumstances.

They are failing because of both.

If you put a McDonald's in the middle of no where, and no one wants to work there or eat there, you wouldn't use that as proof as to why McDonald's is profitable, you would say that is a bad market holding down the entire business.

A bad market is a bad market. A good business plan won't change that.

Players don't want to go to these markets and the fans in these towns barely support them. Hence why they need revenue sharing to exist.

The problem is small market teams have taken way too much advantage of the system, revenue sharing was never intended to be a free revenue stream for teams tanking for 5 years.

The NBA has basically created an endless bailout program for NBA teams trying to purposely lose, this is ********.


so you prefer to downsize a business plan that has kicked out increasing profits over the last decade like the sport has never seen before.

Got it. Well, I hope you don't run your own business. It won't work out if so.

Lol I do run my own my business.

And it's common sense to focus on profitable markets instead of allowing a few bad markets to drag down the entire business.

Show me one shred of proof the newer insanely strict salary cap has helped anyone in the nba. Please, show me this evidence, when reports show almost half the league is unprofitable even after revenue sharing. Where's your proof?

I can easily argue that the lesser strict salary cap not long ago benefited small market teams WAY more because teams with cap space had no hesitation of trading for players who were overpaid, because they had cap flexibility and the option to eventually buy the player out.

This allowed smaller and large market teams to rebuild quicker, it also allowed them to take chances on over paid players.

That is completely dead now. And where has this benefited anyone?

Trading overpriced players happened all the time before this abomination of a salary cap system.

With stricter cap space and an inability to buyout contracts, NO ONE will trade for these contracts anymore, which has lead to the 5 year rebuilding process we see today.

The pointless salary cap system we have today caused this, I never in my entire life remember a team taking 5 years to rebuild before the current cap system went into play.

valade16
01-07-2019, 06:29 PM
They are failing because of both.

If you put a McDonald's in the middle of no where, and no one wants to work there or eat there, you wouldn't use that as proof as to why McDonald's is profitable, you would say that is a bad market holding down the entire business.

A bad market is a bad market. A good business plan won't change that.

Players don't want to go to these markets and the fans in these towns barely support them. Hence why they need revenue sharing to exist.

The problem is small market teams have taken way too much advantage of the system, revenue sharing was never intended to be a free revenue stream for teams tanking for 5 years.

The NBA has basically created an endless bailout program for NBA teams trying to purposely lose, this is ********.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20747413/a-confidential-report-shows-nearly-half-nba-lost-money-last-season-now-what

14 NBA teams lost revenue before Revenue sharing. If your solution is these bad teams in bad markets should fold you're talking about a 16 team league. That is bad for the NBA. Contrary to the belief of the large market earners, having less teams to share the revenue with would be a bad thing because there'd be less revenue overall.

A 16 team league would not be nearly as profitable as a 30 team league. So the Lakers could get to keep all of their $250 million in revenue in a 16 team league or keep $300 million of part of their revenue and give the rest to revenue sharing.


Not to mention you still haven't addressed the inherent problem of bad teams in good markets. The most profitable team was the New York Knicks. They are terrible and have been terrible for some time.

TakeYourL
01-07-2019, 06:41 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20747413/a-confidential-report-shows-nearly-half-nba-lost-money-last-season-now-what

14 NBA teams lost revenue before Revenue sharing. If your solution is these bad teams in bad markets should fold you're talking about a 16 team league. That is bad for the NBA. Contrary to the belief of the large market earners, having less teams to share the revenue with would be a bad thing because there'd be less revenue overall.

A 16 team league would not be nearly as profitable as a 30 team league. So the Lakers could get to keep all of their $250 million in revenue in a 16 team league or keep $300 million of part of their revenue and give the rest to revenue sharing.


Not to mention you still haven't addressed the inherent problem of bad teams in good markets. The most profitable team was the New York Knicks. They are terrible and have been terrible for some time.

I'm not saying we should absolutely cut bad small market teams, I'm saying we need to end the nonsense of trying to create the most complicated strict salary cap system in sports history, with the only goal of helping small market teams.

Because it's not working and it's hurting the entire league.

Not only has the system been a complete failire but it's hurting all teams, small and large markets alike.

Smaller less desirable markets had WAY MORE success under the older less strict caps, because they had more cap flexibility.

Do you remember how often overpriced players were traded back in the day? How often teams traded away their draft picks?

The new cap system has killed that. No one even gave a crap about draft picks back than. They preferred established players because the cap allowed that.

Yes smaller market teams had to be smarter than larger market teams to achieve success, but that hasn't changed under the new system at all.

Now it's even harder for small market teams because you have taken away cap flexibility from the entire NBA.

valade16
01-07-2019, 06:47 PM
I'm not saying we should absolutely cut bad small market teams, I'm saying we need to end the nonsense of trying to create the most complicated strict salary cap system in sports history, with the only goal of helping small market teams.

Because it's not working and it's hurting the entire league.

Not only has the system been a complete failire but it's hurting all teams, small and large markets alike.

Smaller less desirable markets had WAY MORE success under the older less strict caps, because they had more cap flexibility.

Do you remember how often overpriced players were traded back in the day? How often teams traded away their draft picks?

The new cap system has killed that. No one even gave a crap about draft picks back than. They preferred established players because the cap allowed that.

Yes smaller market teams had to be smarter than larger market teams to achieve success, but that hasn't changed under the new system at all.

Now it's even harder for small market teams because you have taken away cap flexibility from the entire NBA.

What less strict caps are you talking about that smaller market teams had more success under? I don't see how allowing large market teams the ability to spend even more money on players will help small market teams?

TakeYourL
01-07-2019, 07:06 PM
What less strict caps are you talking about that smaller market teams had more success under? I don't see how allowing large market teams the ability to spend even more money on players will help small market teams?

I've already explained this.

More cap flexibility helped everyone, not just larger market teams. Smaller market teams easily dumped their overpriced players under the old system, they can't anymore, so now they refuse to take chances, and hoard draft picks instead.

Trading bad contracts was easy to do before, hoarding drafting picks wasnt even a thing under the old cap system. Now even the big markets are hoarding draft picks, because cap flexibility is non existent.

Oefarmy2005
01-07-2019, 07:11 PM
All of this "nobody wants to play in Minnesota, Cleveland, Memphis" blah nonsense. Basketball is the only sport where players have an issue playing in Minnesota. Hell, in hockey, many players want to play in Ottawa and Toronto, where it is colder than in Minny. Hell, plenty of NFL players want to play in Minnesota, in Green Bay(talk about small market), etc. Baseball has no salary cap, and we all know how that is working out for the league "competitiveness". So it's very and I mean very specific to the NBA players and their overblown egos.

Oefarmy2005
01-07-2019, 07:16 PM
I've already explained this.

More cap flexibility helped everyone, not just larger market teams. Smaller market teams easily dumped their overpriced players under the old system, they can't anymore, so now they refuse to take chances, and hoard draft picks instead.

Trading bad contracts was easy to do before, hoarding drafting picks wasnt even a thing under the old cap system. Now even the big markets are hoarding draft picks, because cap flexibility is non existent.

With no CAP you will literally go to a league where you have the Warriors, the Lakers, the Clippers, whoever ends up in Vegas, the Knicks, the Celtics, the Heat and maybe the Bulls and the Nets. No other teams are going to matter or be able to afford to fill a competitive team. You will have 7-9 teams with all of the stars and nobody but Jeff Greens on the other teams. That is literally what you are proposing. If I can get the same money anywhere, why would I go to anywhere other then West/East coasts? If you really want no cap in the NBA, then you may as well switch the season from winter to summer, so that at least that is not a deterrent for players to go to the Midwest/Canadian teams.

valade16
01-07-2019, 08:40 PM
I've already explained this.

More cap flexibility helped everyone, not just larger market teams. Smaller market teams easily dumped their overpriced players under the old system, they can't anymore, so now they refuse to take chances, and hoard draft picks instead.

Trading bad contracts was easy to do before, hoarding drafting picks wasnt even a thing under the old cap system. Now even the big markets are hoarding draft picks, because cap flexibility is non existent.

I understood, I'm asking what old system? The system from when in the NBA? What years?

TakeYourL
01-09-2019, 01:52 AM
With no CAP you will literally go to a league where you have the Warriors, the Lakers, the Clippers, whoever ends up in Vegas, the Knicks, the Celtics, the Heat and maybe the Bulls and the Nets. No other teams are going to matter or be able to afford to fill a competitive team. You will have 7-9 teams with all of the stars and nobody but Jeff Greens on the other teams. That is literally what you are proposing. If I can get the same money anywhere, why would I go to anywhere other then West/East coasts? If you really want no cap in the NBA, then you may as well switch the season from winter to summer, so that at least that is not a deterrent for players to go to the Midwest/Canadian teams.

I'm not advocating zero cap, I'm not for that at all.

I'm advocating for a much more flexible cap like we had before.

Under the older caps smaller market teams had more success, and the NBA was way more competitive.

The NBA created the most ridiculous strict complicated cap in sports history, and turned this league uncompetitive, and for what? What has anyone gained from it? Show me one positive change from the strict cap era....

You can be terrible and tank in today's league and still not be a top 10 pick, that's how bad tanking has gotten.

The reason for this is the cap is way too strict.

Leaving draft picks with too much value. Put it this way, there is more competition for draft picks than for the championship.

Anyone who pretends this isn't a terrible direction for the nba is delusional.


I understood, I'm asking what old system? The system from when in the NBA? What years?

None specifically, but in general anything with less insane rules.

Look at it this way.

When Rasheed Wallace was considered completely undesirable, and too much of a pain in the butt, the idea that he was untradable was never even a thing.

Besides guys who were inured like Alan houston or fat like Eddy curry, the idea that a player was untradable was not a thing under those systems. If you wanted a player gone, it happened.

Portland traded sheed to Detroit.

Portland went a new direction with Zack Randolph, who they eventually easily traded despite a huge contract.

Detroit went on in win a championship and become one of the best teams in the NBA.

Sheed rebuit his career and thrived with detroit. Small market teams got rid of contracts, small market teams added talent and won a championship.

Everyone wins.

Now keep in mind.
This trade wouldn't be possible in the new nba salary system.

Less flexibility to large markets under the new system, hurt small markets even more, because small markets need flexibility more than large market teams.

Saddletramp
01-09-2019, 04:32 AM
^There is so much wrong with this itís pointless to start. Part of me wants to waste some time and argue this point by point but the other part of me knows it wonít matter so **** it.

How can a team be terrible and tank and not get a top ten pick?

How could that Rasheed Wallace contract not be traded today (adjusted for inflation I assume)?

Isnít their more flexibility with all of these stupid exceptions?

I think youíre more ticked off at max contracts. And players teaming up. And probably analytics, too; you just havenít connected that dot yet.

One positive change from the strict cap era is more money. Waaaaay more.

And your last sentence is pretty, just......odd. Iím not sure you know what youíre saying.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 11:52 AM
And then my Wiggins shows up and drops 40/10 outplaying PG and Russ for the win over OKC. Weíll see how he does without Thibs

Hawkeye15
01-09-2019, 11:58 AM
And then my Wiggins shows up and drops 40/10 outplaying PG and Russ for the win over OKC. Weíll see how he does without Thibs

he has 6-8 game stretches a few times a year where you go, "I wish you always played like this", then he hibernates for 20 games. Why his recent play would give you any hope I don't understand. He will go into hiding again, don't worry.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 12:02 PM
he has 6-8 game stretches a few times a year where you go, "I wish you always played like this", then he hibernates for 20 games. Why his recent play would give you any hope I don't understand. He will go into hiding again, don't worry.

Thibs leaving gives me some ď letís seeĒ

Hawkeye15
01-09-2019, 12:06 PM
Thibs leaving gives me some ď letís seeĒ

Flip, Sam, Tom. So he has had 3 coaches already, and since the midpoint of year 2, and gotten worse each year.

Dude Wiggins can shut us all up himself. No need to fight over such a pedestrian player...that has always been the problem. Us fans care way more about Andrew Wiggins success, than Andrew Wiggins himself.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 12:32 PM
Flip, Sam, Tom. So he has had 3 coaches already, and since the midpoint of year 2, and gotten worse each year.

Dude Wiggins can shut us all up himself. No need to fight over such a pedestrian player...that has always been the problem. Us fans care way more about Andrew Wiggins success, than Andrew Wiggins himself.

Kobe sucked his rookie year too.

Olidipo sucked his first 5

Wigg has that Olidipo persona

And itís not a big deal to me...I just believe he will be good.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 12:34 PM
Kobe sucked his rookie year too.

Olidipo sucked his first 5

Wigg has that Olidipo persona

And itís not a big deal to me...I just believe he will be good

Rivera
01-09-2019, 12:35 PM
Wiggins has one good game all season and IKH shows up :laugh2:

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 12:36 PM
Wiggins has one good game all season and IKH shows up :laugh2:

😂. Itís in him

Hawkeye15
01-09-2019, 12:45 PM
Kobe sucked his rookie year too.

Olidipo sucked his first 5

Wigg has that Olidipo persona

And itís not a big deal to me...I just believe he will be good.

we have covered this. 330+ games starting every one, usage out his ***, primary role, and he gets worse by the year. Pointing out like one of the single outliers ever in Oladipo does nothing to combat the overwhemling list of players that continued to suck after never living up to expectations. At this point, Wolves fans would be happy with just having him be a consistently decent starter. But, he has a long way to go before he is even that, yet he is paid to fight for a spot on the all NBA teams. Hence the Wolves fans absolute frustration with him.

IndyRealist
01-09-2019, 01:05 PM
Kobe sucked his rookie year too.

Olidipo sucked his first 5

Wigg has that Olidipo persona

And itís not a big deal to me...I just believe he will be good.

Oladipo and Wiggins are nothing alike. Dipo put in the work to get better. Wiggins thinks it should just be handed to him. He complained about his shot attempts when there were two CLEARLY better players on the roster. As far as I know, Oladipo never complained even when he had reason to.

One worked to improve, the other coasts on raw athleticism. One plays defense, the other does not. One bought into a ball-sharing system, the other complains about his number of touches.

PLEASE explain how they have the same persona.

Hawkeye15
01-09-2019, 03:09 PM
Oladipo and Wiggins are nothing alike. Dipo put in the work to get better. Wiggins thinks it should just be handed to him. He complained about his shot attempts when there were two CLEARLY better players on the roster. As far as I know, Oladipo never complained even when he had reason to.

One worked to improve, the other coasts on raw athleticism. One plays defense, the other does not. One bought into a ball-sharing system, the other complains about his number of touches.

PLEASE explain how they have the same persona.

he is looking for any example of a late bloomer he can find, while ignoring the obvious-Wiggins just doesn't care about winning or being great.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 03:44 PM
we have covered this. 330+ games starting every one, usage out his ***, primary role, and he gets worse by the year. Pointing out like one of the single outliers ever in Oladipo does nothing to combat the overwhemling list of players that continued to suck after never living up to expectations. At this point, Wolves fans would be happy with just having him be a consistently decent starter. But, he has a long way to go before he is even that, yet he is paid to fight for a spot on the all NBA teams. Hence the Wolves fans absolute frustration with him.

The thing is, guys that suck donít usually have lots of games where they also drop 40pts or spats where they end up breaking team scoring records. How many scoring records does Dipo have? If Wigg never showed he could dominate Iíd be with you, but heís shown at his best to be unstoppable on multiple occasions. Enough so that Iím willing to bet that itís just a mental hurdle and those eventually are overcome.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 03:47 PM
Oladipo and Wiggins are nothing alike. Dipo put in the work to get better. Wiggins thinks it should just be handed to him. He complained about his shot attempts when there were two CLEARLY better players on the roster. As far as I know, Oladipo never complained even when he had reason to.

One worked to improve, the other coasts on raw athleticism. One plays defense, the other does not. One bought into a ball-sharing system, the other complains about his number of touches.

PLEASE explain how they have the same persona.

Iím looking at facial expression and body language on the court pre Dipo breakout. His body language and expression are totally diff now that he knows he can be great.

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 03:49 PM
he is looking for any example of a late bloomer he can find, while ignoring the obvious-Wiggins just doesn't care about winning or being great.

Barry Sanders looked like he didnít care also. I donít really believe your judgement of his character. I think heís just ďRicky WilliamsĒ different.

Hawkeye15
01-09-2019, 04:12 PM
Barry Sanders looked like he didnít care also. I donít really believe your judgement of his character. I think heís just ďRicky WilliamsĒ different.

Ricky Williams was a giant waste of talent haha, so not sure your point.

Look, we don't agree. At all. Wiggins is a total waste.

Rivera
01-09-2019, 04:46 PM
Iím looking at facial expression and body language on the court pre Dipo breakout. His body language and expression are totally diff now that he knows he can be great.

lies. as one of the only and very few Orlando Magic fans on this board, this is a post is LIES. when Oladipo was with the Magic he was an extremely hard worker. Too hard of a worker. Dude was a gym rat. He was still learning the game but dude was always working on his game. And that translated in the games with his body language and facial expressions. Oladipo wasnt a debby downer, Oladipo didnt sulk, he was a grinder who tried to grind against you and give it his all. He had limitations early, and our organization for some reason believed in Elfrid Payton more than Oladipo and it costed us big time. Oladipo was great on and off the court and he might have a little more confidence/cockiness to him now but dude was the same guy now that he was back in Orlando

this post is a great example of a false narrative

IndyRealist
01-09-2019, 05:38 PM
Iím looking at facial expression and body language on the court pre Dipo breakout. His body language and expression are totally diff now that he knows he can be great.

So, nothing factual then.

Chronz
01-09-2019, 06:25 PM
Oladipo and Wiggins are nothing alike. Dipo put in the work to get better. Wiggins thinks it should just be handed to him. He complained about his shot attempts when there were two CLEARLY better players on the roster. As far as I know, Oladipo never complained even when he had reason to.

One worked to improve, the other coasts on raw athleticism. One plays defense, the other does not. One bought into a ball-sharing system, the other complains about his number of touches.

PLEASE explain how they have the same persona.

Kobe didn't suck his rookie year is all I would've said

TakeYourL
01-09-2019, 06:26 PM
How can a team be terrible and tank and not get a top ten pick?

How could that Rasheed Wallace contract not be traded today (adjusted for inflation I assume)?

Isnít their more flexibility with all of these stupid exceptions?



Half the league is terrible now, there is no difference between the bottom of league except for which teams start tanking earlier. Those are the teams that get the higher pick.

The current cap wouldn't allow that Wallace trade and in today's NBA no one would trade for an expensive head case, because no one takes chances anymore, they value their future cap space more than winning.

And no there def is not more flexibility in today's NBA. You didn't need those stupid exemptions under the old system.

Chronz
01-09-2019, 06:27 PM
Iím looking at facial expression and body language on the court pre Dipo breakout. His body language and expression are totally diff now that he knows he can be great.

Dipos body changed and even predraft was lauded for his character and intelligence. Wiggins forgets to put on his Jersey before a game and if you've ever worked with them, shares the smiles and eyes of a ****.

Heediot
01-09-2019, 07:11 PM
this dude i used to work with 10 years younger then me said he played/competed with both wiggins and lavine. he said he liked lavines game and personality better. he told me all this before either guy was drafted. he said wiggins was kind of soft and just gets by like he's doing now on athleticism. wiggins could get easily punked and thrown off his game when he was growing up. him and wiggins grew up in the vaughan area. i accused him of being a hater, he told me some ish about his mom on roids while she was pregnant which i don't know the medical ramifications about, thats when i thought my co-worker was something else. he says wiggins loves blazing the grass. when i look back now there seems to be a lot of legit things the guy said, not too sure about the pregnancy thing though.

Saddletramp
01-09-2019, 07:45 PM
Half the league is terrible now, there is no difference between the bottom of league except for which teams start tanking earlier. Those are the teams that get the higher pick.

The current cap wouldn't allow that Wallace trade and in today's NBA no one would trade for an expensive head case, because no one takes chances anymore, they value their future cap space more than winning.

And no there def is not more flexibility in today's NBA. You didn't need those stupid exemptions under the old system.

Thereís not 10+ teams tanking.

That trade could still happen. Teams still take chances.

Even if true on the flexibility (or lack thereof), itís more to do with max contracts and player control. Thatís not going away.

I guess you had no counter for my other questions/statements.

Chronz
01-09-2019, 08:24 PM
this dude i used to work with 10 years younger then me said he played/competed with both wiggins and lavine. he said he liked lavines game and personality better. he told me all this before either guy was drafted. he said wiggins was kind of soft and just gets by like he's doing now on athleticism. wiggins could get easily punked and thrown off his game when he was growing up. him and wiggins grew up in the vaughan area. i accused him of being a hater, he told me some ish about his mom on roids while she was pregnant which i don't know the medical ramifications about, thats when i thought my co-worker was something else. he says wiggins loves blazing the grass. when i look back now there seems to be a lot of legit things the guy said, not too sure about the pregnancy thing though.

Blazing the grass is prolly something he's always held in common with the nba players. Who gives a **** unless you're a lazy slob like Wiggins. I called it year one, the next gerald green. I fell for the trap star many times tho

TakeYourL
01-09-2019, 08:47 PM
Thereís not 10+ teams tanking.

That trade could still happen. Teams still take chances.

Even if true on the flexibility (or lack thereof), itís more to do with max contracts and player control. Thatís not going away.

I guess you had no counter for my other questions/statements.

Yes there is 10 plus teams that tank, just look at the draft a few years ago. Knicks were tank mode and still only landed the 8th pick, that's how bad the nba is.

And the sheed trade would not happen, not only would teams not do the trade, but it's not physically possible under the new system.

I had no comment on your other statements because they aren't even relevant and make no sense. You don't even have a clue what your talking about you just talking to be heard.

Saddletramp
01-09-2019, 10:53 PM
Yes there is 10 plus teams that tank, just look at the draft a few years ago. Knicks were tank mode and still only landed the 8th pick, that's how bad the nba is.

And the sheed trade would not happen, not only would teams not do the trade, but it's not physically possible under the new system.

I had no comment on your other statements because they aren't even relevant and make no sense. You don't even have a clue what your talking about you just talking to be heard.


Name the teams that are tanking this year. Theyíre doing a piss poor job of it. The Suns are just a bad team but theyíve shown flashes here and there. But Iíll give you that one. The Cavs got caught being this bad with Lebron leaving a team that was surrounded by talent that was built for him to succeed plus Love hasnít played hardly at all. But thatís another one. The Knicks donít have KP and the Hawks are just not a friendly destination and are in the middle of a rebuild, as is Chicago but thatís three more. The Wizards are there now that Wall is out. Thatís six teams.

No other team in the West is trying to tank, theyíre just either on the rise and still bad or theyíre still betting on their losing hand that they bet on like Memphis. If they wanted to tank, theyíd trade Gasol and Connelly. Just last draft they tried to trade their Top 4 pick to get rid of Parsons and there was no takers. Doesnít sound like a team trying to tank to me.

The East? Teams like Charlotte, Miami, and Detroit arenít tanking, theyíre just not good. Biding their time hoping to land a star that will propel them (like Miami trying to get Butler and like Detroit trading for Blake). Sometimes these plans work, sometimes they donít.

The Sixers a few years ago tanked. The Cavs (until 2014 and now for the foreseeable future) and the Knicks just have terrible ownership that wonít be good again until their owners sell or die. To say a team canít tank and get a top ten pick is ludicrous.


How is the ĎSheed grade ďnot possibleĒ? You keep saying this and Iím asking now for you to explain how itís ďnot possible.Ē

And itís funny, your last paragraph is exactly what I (and I assume others) have thought about your stance here. Most others have just given up trying to reason with you (Please, tell us more about how you want the NBA to use the NFL as a template but donít want to bring in non guaranteed contracts).

Jamiecballer
01-09-2019, 11:03 PM
More important? Iíll bet anything ball has gotten less important to this guy. After HS he probably discovered all the things ball could give him and the game became secondary.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWiggins agent told my friend that they thought he would get 3 max contracts during his career lmao

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
01-09-2019, 11:48 PM
Ricky Williams was a giant waste of talent haha, so not sure your point.

Look, we don't agree. At all. Wiggins is a total waste.

Lol, Ricky lead the league in rushing.

If Wiggins ever leads the league in scoring, youíd be dead wrong.

Hawkeye15
01-10-2019, 10:57 AM
Lol, Ricky lead the league in rushing.

If Wiggins ever leads the league in scoring, youíd be dead wrong.

I saw some stat that he was the 7th fastest to reach a point total, and just laughed. If this were 1994, maybe we would be blinded by his per game scoring. But, it isn't. NFL is no different. There are volume runners, and guys whose yards don't mean as much as someone else's yards.

The dude is a failure to date. Period.

IKnowHoops
01-10-2019, 01:01 PM
I saw some stat that he was the 7th fastest to reach a point total, and just laughed. If this were 1994, maybe we would be blinded by his per game scoring. But, it isn't. NFL is no different. There are volume runners, and guys whose yards don't mean as much as someone else's yards.

The dude is a failure to date. Period.

Yeah still though, Ricky Williams was a beast...calling him a waste is off the mark. He could of been better, but he was damn good. 1800 yards rushing and a great ypc that year is tough in the NFL where you can get injured in the blink of an eye. Also when o-line dictates what you are able to accomplish...Ricky was no waste. He was a beast who had a decent career with an all time great year included.

Now if you said Lawrence Phillips was a waste of Talent, or maybe a stretch to Tyrone Wheatley, then yes, Iíd agree, but not Ricky. If Wiggins could do what Ricky did heíd be fine.

Ricky ainít Ron Dayne

Hawkeye15
01-10-2019, 03:06 PM
Yeah still though, Ricky Williams was a beast...calling him a waste is off the mark. He could of been better, but he was damn good. 1800 yards rushing and a great ypc that year is tough in the NFL where you can get injured in the blink of an eye. Also when o-line dictates what you are able to accomplish...Ricky was no waste. He was a beast who had a decent career with an all time great year included.

Now if you said Lawrence Phillips was a waste of Talent, or maybe a stretch to Tyrone Wheatley, then yes, Iíd agree, but not Ricky. If Wiggins could do what Ricky did heíd be fine.

Ricky ainít Ron Dayne

Did Ricky Williams get paid like Tomlison did? Or Peterson?

If Wiggins wasn't making the money paid to all NBA caliber talents, perhaps we wouldn't be crushing him so hard.

Dude, he sucks. He is not a positive player, at all. Just because he pops his head out of hibernation 12-15 times a year and balls out then goes back into hiding doesn't mean he "has the potential". **** his age, he has 350 games of massive usage/role, and still sucks.

God why do I keep responding to you over this failure?

IKnowHoops
01-10-2019, 09:05 PM
Did Ricky Williams get paid like Tomlison did? Or Peterson?

If Wiggins wasn't making the money paid to all NBA caliber talents, perhaps we wouldn't be crushing him so hard.

Dude, he sucks. He is not a positive player, at all. Just because he pops his head out of hibernation 12-15 times a year and balls out then goes back into hiding doesn't mean he "has the potential". **** his age, he has 350 games of massive usage/role, and still sucks.

God why do I keep responding to you over this failure?

Lol, the fact that he does ball out, the 45 inch vertical, the team records, freakish ability. Thatís exactly what potential is. It absolutely means he ďhas potentialĒ lol. Doesnít mean heís a lock. I expect him to be a late bloomer. You expect him to suck forever. Cool...time will tell. Cheers

Hawkeye15
01-11-2019, 10:37 AM
Lol, the fact that he does ball out, the 45 inch vertical, the team records, freakish ability. Thatís exactly what potential is. It absolutely means he ďhas potentialĒ lol. Doesnít mean heís a lock. I expect him to be a late bloomer. You expect him to suck forever. Cool...time will tell. Cheers

does "potential" also mean shows the life of a patient in a vegetation state?

Hawkeye15
01-11-2019, 10:38 AM
Weather is shi**y there, that's for sure.

while this winter has been very mild, yeah, winter here sucks. Spring/Summer/Fall are unbeatable though. Doesn't change the fact for 3-4 months it SUCKS haha