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LaVar Ball
12-23-2018, 04:33 PM
Jonathan Feigen

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Rockets reach agreement to sign guard Austin Rivers, source said.

Heediot
12-23-2018, 04:38 PM
Y'all would honestly rather have Austin over Melo?

More-Than-Most
12-23-2018, 04:40 PM
Y'all would honestly rather have Austin over Melo?

um is this a serious question?

Heediot
12-23-2018, 04:43 PM
um is this a serious question?

yeah it is.

they both suck, i think austin sucks more.

Cal827
12-23-2018, 04:43 PM
Wait, wasn't one of the supposed main reasons that Paul left LA was that Rivers refused to ship his son out for another player who might've helped them out a lot more?

I know it's unrelated at this point, but :laugh2:

ewing
12-23-2018, 05:02 PM
Wait, wasn't one of the supposed main reasons that Paul left LA was that Rivers refused to ship his son out for another player who might've helped them out a lot more?

I know it's unrelated at this point, but :laugh2:

Yep. Melo has a it him or its me moment with Dantoni too.


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GREATNESS ONE
12-23-2018, 05:06 PM
Championship!

Saddletramp
12-23-2018, 05:13 PM
The rich get richer! Be jelly!



:facepalm: I get it but meh. Gross.

tredigs
12-23-2018, 06:48 PM
Morey is throwing darts at this point.

IndyRealist
12-23-2018, 07:34 PM
yeah it is.

they both suck, i think austin sucks more.

While they both suck, Austin is just there to eat minutes. Melo was taking minutes from better players.

Heediot
12-23-2018, 07:39 PM
While they both suck, Austin is just there to eat minutes. Melo was taking minutes from better players.

i can see the argument for chemistry and fit. but those g league and fringe nba players are not better vs. melo. melo is just a chemistry killer. i don't think austin is a type that builds chemistry either, but he probably won't kill it on the level on melo. i'd still take melo over rivers thoug.

c.c.
12-23-2018, 08:09 PM
I have 5 things to say in regards to this thread


1. I donít think Rivers a good player, his father keep him in the league this long. Rivers being on the Clippers for the past years kept him employed.

2. For all you guys saying Melo is better, start a petition or some kind of awareness to get him on your favorite team. I see a lot people take up for him but I donít see nobody awaiting his arrival.

3. I fear the chemistry between him and CP3. I hope the Rockets consult with CP3 about the acquisition before. I know when CP3 comes back, Rivers minutes will decrease.

4. Brandon Knight and MCW has not been impressive in my opinion so I see the desperation move but itís Austin Rivers.

5. I donít know the effect this will have on the Rockets cap but I would wait for more players to become available. Just in case this move is another ďMelo moveĒ.

IndyRealist
12-23-2018, 08:25 PM
i can see the argument for chemistry and fit. but those g league and fringe nba players are not better vs. melo. melo is just a chemistry killer. i don't think austin is a type that builds chemistry either, but he probably won't kill it on the level on melo. i'd still take melo over rivers thoug.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. There may not be a player less deserving of his reputation or money than Melo, but again Rivers has spent time as the actual worst player in the league. Melo is the better of the two, but only because it's impossible not to be. The only reason Rivers is on the Rockets and Melo isn't, is because Melo can't play point guard.

Scoots
12-23-2018, 08:40 PM
Never would have thought the inefficient Rivers would be picked up by Morey. Sometimes I think Morey sees a player play their best game and figures he can get that out of them every game ... Rivers' best game has him playing hard on D, pushing the ball, and hitting 3s at a high rate.

tredigs
12-23-2018, 08:54 PM
6 of one, half dozen of the other. There may not be a player less deserving of his reputation or money than Melo, but again Rivers has spent time as the actual worst player in the league. Melo is the better of the two, but only because it's impossible not to be. The only reason Rivers is on the Rockets and Melo isn't, is because Melo can't play point guard.

To be fair you thought PG was an overrated player despite him being a consistent playoff star and is arguably the MVP of the league this season. So.

Heediot
12-23-2018, 08:57 PM
6 of one, half dozen of the other. There may not be a player less deserving of his reputation or money than Melo, but again Rivers has spent time as the actual worst player in the league. Melo is the better of the two, but only because it's impossible not to be. The only reason Rivers is on the Rockets and Melo isn't, is because Melo can't play point guard.

Melo just doesn't fit the new nba and he doesn't play well of dominant ball handlers in the new era. I think his talent is still top 1/3. His mentality is to score and dominate the ball, which isn 't a good recipe in this newer era. He isn't as zoned in and engaged playing a complementary roll as much as he tries to, his habits are too ingrained. His defense is just icing on the cake of why he is a negative in today's nba where its harder and harder to hide guys with the perimeter oriented game. These d league calls ups and finge nba guys aren't necessarily better, at least offensively, but they can play the role better and not **** up what needs to be done as much. I am not just saying rivers its that Clark and House guys I'm more referring to as well.

IndyRealist
12-23-2018, 10:50 PM
To be fair you thought PG was an overrated player despite him being a consistent playoff star and is arguably the MVP of the league this season. So.
1) if you acknowledge that PG is having the best season of his career, that also means he's never played at this level before.
2) how is a previous evaluation of PG invalidated by how he is currently playing? I've said nothing about his play this year.
3) he's only arguably MVP if everyone else is bad at arguing. He might be top 10, but there is a HUGE drop off after guys like AD and Giannis. PG is not in that stratosphere.

PG was, and at least by you still is, overrated.

smith&wesson
12-24-2018, 04:33 PM
1) if you acknowledge that PG is having the best season of his career, that also means he's never played at this level before.
2) how is a previous evaluation of PG invalidated by how he is currently playing? I've said nothing about his play this year.
3) he's only arguably MVP if everyone else is bad at arguing. He might be top 10, but there is a HUGE drop off after guys like AD and Giannis. PG is not in that stratosphere.

PG was, and at least by you still is, overrated.

I disagree heís always been a killer in the playoffs. Indy never had enough talent around him and even now on the thunder they still donít have enough to truly be a contender in the west.

But I take PG over a lot of players in the post season and ultimately to me thatís what counts. A lot of ďstarsĒ shrink in the playoffs and I know that first hand as a raptor fan.

Georgeís numbers have fluctuated through out his career but mostly due to team circumstances. He was never really in a position to win vs the Cleveland, Miami, and Golden state super teams that have dominated the league since heís been drafted. Which is why a lot of these players are teaming up imo. Giannis as good as he is isnít winning a title in Milwaukee unless they get some stars there and thereís a lot of players that are stuck in that position.

The numbers donít always tell the whole story. Iíve seen PG push LeBron to his limits in the post season with a bunch of scrubs around him when LeBron had Irving Love etc ... PG is a beast!

mightybosstone
12-25-2018, 07:30 PM
Hated it at the time when I first saw it just because of the history between he and the Rockets. I've genuinely loathed the guy throughout this career. But, honestly, the Rockets are desperate for playmaking guards and defensive-minded guys, and all of the concerns I had about him pretty much melted away after one game. He's no MCW. Dude can play, and I like his chances to stick in the rotation even after Paul gets healthy.

Scoots
12-25-2018, 08:55 PM
Hated it at the time when I first saw it just because of the history between he and the Rockets. I've genuinely loathed the guy throughout this career. But, honestly, the Rockets are desperate for playmaking guards and defensive-minded guys, and all of the concerns I had about him pretty much melted away after one game. He's no MCW. Dude can play, and I like his chances to stick in the rotation even after Paul gets healthy.

Give him more than 1 game to disappoint you.

Chronz
12-25-2018, 09:05 PM
Hated it at the time when I first saw it just because of the history between he and the Rockets. I've genuinely loathed the guy throughout this career. But, honestly, the Rockets are desperate for playmaking guards and defensive-minded guys, and all of the concerns I had about him pretty much melted away after one game. He's no MCW. Dude can play, and I like his chances to stick in the rotation even after Paul gets healthy.
Hes definitely not mcw
He's definitely no playmaker

mightybosstone
12-25-2018, 11:21 PM
Hes definitely not mcw
He's definitely no playmaker

Maybe not for others, but by "playmaker" I really just mean someone who can generate offense, period. Aside from Harden, Paul and Gordon, the Rockets lack guys who can get their own shot, much less create for others. Tucker, House and Green are nice role players, but you can't expect them to create for themselves.

Scoots
12-26-2018, 12:25 AM
Maybe not for others, but by "playmaker" I really just mean someone who can generate offense, period. Aside from Harden, Paul and Gordon, the Rockets lack guys who can get their own shot, much less create for others. Tucker, House and Green are nice role players, but you can't expect them to create for themselves.

Rivers is VERY frustrating to watch. He'll play 1 good game, 1 average game, and 8 bad games in every 10.

IndyRealist
12-26-2018, 09:39 AM
Rivers is VERY frustrating to watch. He'll play 1 good game, 1 average game, and 8 bad games in every 10.

This is the problem with evaluating specifically scoring perimeter players. They have a game where they go off for like 30 or something, and people think they have "potential" to do that all the time, while ignoring the 15 other games they were terrible. If they can't do it consistently, it doesn't matter that they did it once.

More of these guys end up being Brandon Jennings or Adam Morrison than they do Steph or Klay.

mightybosstone
12-26-2018, 10:17 AM
Rivers is VERY frustrating to watch. He'll play 1 good game, 1 average game, and 8 bad games in every 10.


This is the problem with evaluating specifically scoring perimeter players. They have a game where they go off for like 30 or something, and people think they have "potential" to do that all the time, while ignoring the 15 other games they were terrible. If they can't do it consistently, it doesn't matter that they did it once.

More of these guys end up being Brandon Jennings or Adam Morrison than they do Steph or Klay.

I think you guys are seriously overestimating what the Rockets need him to be. Honestly, if he's a 10/2/2 guy who can shoot 36 percent from the 3-point line and help put the ball in the basket when Harden sits down, that's really all they need. Right now their offense is completely inept when he sits; I think they might be dead last or near that in bench points per game. It's essentially Gordon dribbling all over the place or Gerald Green jacking up contested shots.

Having another guy who can create for himself was a huge need even before Paul was out; with him gone for a while, it was an absolute necessity. Honestly, though, watching the game last yesterday, his greatest asset might be his defense. And they could definitely use that, too. If he's garbage offensively on any given night, but he's locking down his man, I'll take it.

Just adding more competent rotational guys is a step in the right direction for the team, though. When Paul gets back, it'd be nice for them to be able to run a nine-man rotation and have nights where Harden and Paul don't have to play 35+ minutes.

IndyRealist
12-26-2018, 12:10 PM
I think you guys are seriously overestimating what the Rockets need him to be. Honestly, if he's a 10/2/2 guy who can shoot 36 percent from the 3-point line and help put the ball in the basket when Harden sits down, that's really all they need. Right now their offense is completely inept when he sits; I think they might be dead last or near that in bench points per game. It's essentially Gordon dribbling all over the place or Gerald Green jacking up contested shots.

Having another guy who can create for himself was a huge need even before Paul was out; with him gone for a while, it was an absolute necessity. Honestly, though, watching the game last yesterday, his greatest asset might be his defense. And they could definitely use that, too. If he's garbage offensively on any given night, but he's locking down his man, I'll take it.

Just adding more competent rotational guys is a step in the right direction for the team, though. When Paul gets back, it'd be nice for them to be able to run a nine-man rotation and have nights where Harden and Paul don't have to play 35+ minutes.

I was making a relatively general statement, but if I'm going to talk about Rivers in particular "competent" is not a word I'd ever use to describe him.

tredigs
12-26-2018, 04:48 PM
1) if you acknowledge that PG is having the best season of his career, that also means he's never played at this level before.
2) how is a previous evaluation of PG invalidated by how he is currently playing? I've said nothing about his play this year.
3) he's only arguably MVP if everyone else is bad at arguing. He might be top 10, but there is a HUGE drop off after guys like AD and Giannis. PG is not in that stratosphere.

PG was, and at least by you still is, overrated.

He has always been an elite player, just an underperforming regular season guy. It is the better alternative of the two. If you don't think he is an MVP candidate, you are simply blinded concerning the player. A highly efficient 26/8/4 along with arguably the top wing D in the NBA. Leading a top team in the West while leading the NBA in D Win Shares and leading the NBA in overall RPM. Yes, that is MVP production and not significantly behind anyone.

mightybosstone
12-26-2018, 05:49 PM
I was making a relatively general statement, but if I'm going to talk about Rivers in particular "competent" is not a word I'd ever use to describe him.

Dude has been terrible at times in his career, but I also think part of the conversation around him is how many minutes he was getting and how much he was being paid. At $11 million-$12 million a season, it's absurd for him to make that kind of money for the level of production and efficiency he provides. But at the veteran minimum, would you take him for 15-20 minutes a night? I think many teams could use a guy like that as their 7th or 8th best guy, especially at that cost.

Chronz
12-26-2018, 08:38 PM
He has always been an elite player, just an underperforming regular season guy. It is the better alternative of the two. If you don't think he is an MVP candidate, you are simply blinded concerning the player. A highly efficient 26/8/4 along with arguably the top wing D in the NBA. Leading a top team in the West while leading the NBA in D Win Shares and leading the NBA in overall RPM. Yes, that is MVP production and not significantly behind anyone.

So this is the year pg significantly underwhelms in the postseason

Chronz
12-26-2018, 08:40 PM
Dude has been terrible at times in his career, but I also think part of the conversation around him is how many minutes he was getting and how much he was being paid. At $11 million-$12 million a season, it's absurd for him to make that kind of money for the level of production and efficiency he provides. But at the veteran minimum, would you take him for 15-20 minutes a night? I think many teams could use a guy like that as their 7th or 8th best guy, especially at that cost.
He was terrible, the worst ever at one point. What makes people hate him is that his development was forced due to nepotism. Sure he improved but plenty would have if force fed minutes

mightybosstone
12-26-2018, 08:50 PM
He was terrible, the worst ever at one point. What makes people hate him is that his development was forced due to nepotism. Sure he improved but plenty would have if force fed minutes

I get the whole "Doc played his son way too much" thing. I do, and I was absolutely on that bandwagon while everyone was yelling for him to get fewer minutes. That being said, the guy is hardly the worst player in the NBA. I think that moniker is a little unfair. Was he possibly the worst player making $10 million+ a year? Probably. But there have been a lot of guys posting numbers far worse than Rivers over the last few years and/or playing a hell of a lot worse on defense.

Chronz
12-26-2018, 08:58 PM
Let's revisit this in 45 days

IndyRealist
12-27-2018, 11:35 AM
He has always been an elite player, just an underperforming regular season guy. It is the better alternative of the two. If you don't think he is an MVP candidate, you are simply blinded concerning the player. A highly efficient 26/8/4 along with arguably the top wing D in the NBA. Leading a top team in the West while leading the NBA in D Win Shares and leading the NBA in overall RPM. Yes, that is MVP production and not significantly behind anyone.

He has flashes, but he can't sustain. This is his longest run of good play since....well, ever. He has problems maintaining just for a 7 game series. Maybe having Westbrook and Adams takes the pressure off, I don't know.

But have you seen this guy Giannis? I hear he's pretty good.

tredigs
12-27-2018, 11:52 AM
He has flashes, but he can't sustain. This is his longest run of good play since....well, ever. He has problems maintaining just for a 7 game series. Maybe having Westbrook and Adams takes the pressure off, I don't know.

But have you seen this guy Giannis? I hear he's pretty good.
Yes, he is another MVP candidate, along with PG. Not your best rebuttal. A player yet to lead his team out of the first round mind you.

IndyRealist
12-27-2018, 12:04 PM
Yes, he is another MVP candidate, along with PG. Not your best rebuttal. A player yet to lead his team out of the first round mind you.

Giannis is heads and shoulders above PG with George playing the best ball of his career. He's at Lebron level statistical freakiness. His team has a better record than OKC, and he doesn't have a former MVP on his team. The Bucks are contenders solely because of Giannis.

I just assumed you forgot about him, because the comparison is not even close.

tredigs
12-27-2018, 12:28 PM
Giannis is heads and shoulders above PG with George playing the best ball of his career. He's at Lebron level statistical freakiness. His team has a better record than OKC, and he doesn't have a former MVP on his team. The Bucks are contenders solely because of Giannis.

I just assumed you forgot about him, because the comparison is not even close.
No, he's not. But I won't get too into a back and forth unless you provide a modicum of insight+analysis. Forgive me if I don't exactly fall over for Giannis and his 11% 3pt shooting + 69% from the line. "Former MVP" Westbrook and his 48% TS on 20 ppg aren't exactly doing his team any favors either. There's a reason why PG leads the league in RPM while Giannis is a far distant 13th. George has been more impactful on both sides of the ball.

Chronz
12-27-2018, 01:37 PM
I get the whole "Doc played his son way too much" thing. I do, and I was absolutely on that bandwagon while everyone was yelling for him to get fewer minutes. That being said, the guy is hardly the worst player in the NBA. I think that moniker is a little unfair. Was he possibly the worst player making $10 million+ a year? Probably. But there have been a lot of guys posting numbers far worse than Rivers over the last few years and/or playing a hell of a lot worse on defense.

I meant he was at one point the literal worst, he's gotten developmental time with the clippers to become below average at best.

IndyRealist
12-27-2018, 02:11 PM
No, he's not. But I won't get too into a back and forth unless you provide a modicum of insight+analysis. Forgive me if I don't exactly fall over for Giannis and his 11% 3pt shooting + 69% from the line. "Former MVP" Westbrook and his 48% TS on 20 ppg aren't exactly doing his team any favors either. There's a reason why PG leads the league in RPM while Giannis is a far distant 13th. George has been more impactful on both sides of the ball.

Deliberately obtuse reasoning. eFG% 59.3% vs. 53.6%. TS 63.1 vs. 58.3%. cherry picking will get you nowhere. When someone can stop Giannis inside we'll worry about his 3pt shooting.

mightybosstone
01-04-2019, 03:33 AM
I'm bumping this thread because it deserves to be bumped after this first five-game sample size of Rivers we've had in Houston. I've gotta sayóI love the kid. I was as skeptical when they signed him as anybody, but he's been so critical to the Rockets' success the last five games in CP3's absence and now Gordon missing time.

Through five games, he's averaging 12/3/3 while shooting almost 39% from the 3-point line and consistently providing some of the best perimeter defense on the entire team. He's also eating up huge chunks of minutes for a team in desperate need of that. Since joining with the OKC game and playing 31 minutes, he's played increasingly more minutes every night up to 44 minutes tonight in Oakland. He wasn't especially efficient tonight, but the dude put up 18/4/4 and hit some really big shots on basically Eric Gordon numbers.

That's the thing that impresses me most, though. This kid is a gamer, and he hasn't really let the enormity of the moment overwhelm him at all. He's physical with some of the best perimeter players in the game and he's unafraid to take big shots. Obviously it's still very early in his tenure in Houston, but so far I'd call this a huge win for Morey and the Rockets. The biggest challenge will be how D'Antoni incorporates him into the rotation once Paul and Gordon get back. How do all of those guys get time and get used to their maximum potential?

Chrisclover
01-04-2019, 06:15 AM
He was on fire vs the warriors!

IndyRealist
01-04-2019, 09:29 AM
He was on fire vs the warriors!

To qualify that point, he had 18 points on 18 shots. The bar for being on fire is very low.