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kdspurman
12-13-2018, 11:36 AM
http://i68.tinypic.com/2jg5ezt.jpg



*Bulls/Magic game is being played in Mexico City

kdspurman
12-13-2018, 11:36 AM
Last Nights Results:

L+G 9-2
tredigs 7-4
kdspur 7-4
ewing 6-5
Riv 6-5
bucketss 6-5
saddletramp 6-5
veerex 5-6
tg11 4-7


This Weeks Results:

L+G 21-3
ewing 18-6
Riv 17-7
Tre 17-7
Saddletramp 17-7
KDSpur 17-7
tg11 16-8
bucketss 16-8
JazzNC 10-2
Coolbeans 9-1
MtM 8-2

^^^

Giannis94
12-13-2018, 11:54 AM
My thread asking if the warriors should sell got deleted. Such a soft fan base. Any other team and it stays up

tredigs
12-13-2018, 12:04 PM
My thread asking if the warriors should sell got deleted. Such a soft fan base. Any other team and it stays up

Lol I'm guessing the "Warrior fanbase" don't delete your stupid threads Giannis. Just a hunch. But yes, clearly they should blow it up.

tredigs
12-13-2018, 12:05 PM
http://i68.tinypic.com/2jg5ezt.jpg



*Bulls/Magic game is being played in Mexico City

Rockets
Clippers
Magic
Mavs

Giannis94
12-13-2018, 12:11 PM
Lol I'm guessing the "Warrior fanbase" don't delete your stupid threads Giannis. Just a hunch. But yes, clearly they should blow it up.

Expiring contracts and team chemistry that is disinigrating. If I'm playing on NBA 2k I'm trading all these rentals for long term value to the idiots that will give the house for a rental and a run at the title. Same goes for the NBA. We seem GM's give the house in the NBA as is for rentals and make bad deals. Why not trade rentals for the house?

Rivera
12-13-2018, 12:39 PM
Lakers
Spurs
Magic
Mavs

Lakers + Giants
12-13-2018, 01:01 PM
Rockets
Spurs
Magic
Mavs

ewing
12-13-2018, 01:11 PM
http://i68.tinypic.com/2jg5ezt.jpg



*Bulls/Magic game is being played in Mexico City


Rockets
Clippers
Magic
Mavs

Tg11
12-13-2018, 03:29 PM
http://i68.tinypic.com/2jg5ezt.jpg



*Bulls/Magic game is being played in Mexico City

Lakers
Spurs
Magic
Mavs

bucketss
12-13-2018, 03:56 PM
rockets,spurs,magic,mavs

Saddletramp
12-13-2018, 04:16 PM
LAL
LAC
Magic
Mavs

kdspurman
12-13-2018, 06:22 PM
Lakers
Spurs
Magic
Mavs

JAZZNC
12-13-2018, 08:15 PM
Lakers
Clippers
Magic
Mavs

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 09:21 PM
lakers should and need to win this as a statement... this is a terrible rockets team that dont defend... lakers need to make a statement here and show that they are contenders.

tredigs
12-13-2018, 09:42 PM
lakers should and need to win this as a statement... this is a terrible rockets team that dont defend... lakers need to make a statement here and show that they are contenders.

Would a win over a struggling sub .500 Rockets squad really be that "statement"? I still like the Rockets tonight though. And in a series. Also, they're not contenders. They're just not.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 09:43 PM
for the life of me i dont understand it... why is it so hard for non massive guys to make free throws? Watching ben simmons last game and lonzo tonight... there is no ****ing excuse for both guys to be around 50 percent from the line... Its annoying

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 09:44 PM
Would a win over a struggling sub .500 Rockets squad really be that "statement"? I still like the Rockets tonight though. And in a series. Also, they're not contenders. They're just not.

any team with lebron is a contender but the thing that will kill them in the playoffs is the shooting from the line... has a playoff team been this bad recently from the line? Theya re giving away so many free points

JAZZNC
12-13-2018, 09:46 PM
Expiring contracts and team chemistry that is disinigrating. If I'm playing on NBA 2k I'm trading all these rentals for long term value to the idiots that will give the house for a rental and a run at the title. Same goes for the NBA. We seem GM's give the house in the NBA as is for rentals and make bad deals. Why not trade rentals for the house?

I absolutely love when people talk about what they do in a video game like it has any bearing on real life. I wonder if you actually believe the ridiculousness you spew on here....sadly I think you do.

tredigs
12-13-2018, 09:52 PM
any team with lebron is a contender but the thing that will kill them in the playoffs is the shooting from the line... has a playoff team been this bad recently from the line? Theya re giving away so many free points

Nah man, he's not in the East anymore and his teams don't automatically get the "contender" label just because they make the Finals. It's not as if that Cavs team was a contender last year. They just happened to play in the East and were the sacrificial lamb. I do not expect to see the Lakers in the WCF either.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 09:59 PM
Nah man, he's not in the East anymore and his teams don't automatically get the "contender" label just because they make the Finals. It's not as if that Cavs team was a contender last year. They just happened to play in the East and were the sacrificial lamb. I do not expect to see the Lakers in the WCF either.

it really depends on your definition... Personally I dont think anyone beats the raptors/warriors.... but anyone else in the west or East i think the lakers could beat.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 10:01 PM
i really wish lebron got the same calls harden gets

JAZZNC
12-13-2018, 10:01 PM
Nah man, he's not in the East anymore and his teams don't automatically get the "contender" label just because they make the Finals. It's not as if that Cavs team was a contender last year. They just happened to play in the East and were the sacrificial lamb. I do not expect to see the Lakers in the WCF either.

I mean outside of your boys I don't see a team in the West that is an automatic favorite over the Lakers. Maybe OKC because for some reason PG goes ham against LeBron teams in the playoffs. But I have no faith in a team like Portland or Denver beating the Lakers with with playoff mode LBJ. No they aren't technically contenders because there's a 0% chance they beat the Warriors but if they avoid them I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the WCF.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 10:03 PM
you gotta understand Tre... Lebron bust his cheeks so though he is right sometimes the hate for lebron overshadows everything else : )

tredigs
12-13-2018, 10:05 PM
it really depends on your definition... Personally I dont think anyone beats the raptors/warriors.... but anyone else in the west or East i think the lakers could beat.

I can't see them beating the Celtics if they're gelling in a few months, which I think they will. In the West I think the Nuggets, Rockets, Warriors and Thunder would/will beat them. Pelicans possibly depending on how they regroup. For once we finally get to see though! But too bad Kawhi is in the East : /

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 10:06 PM
I just dont get it... How can houston be this bad.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 10:10 PM
the harden flop lololololol... refs didnt give him that ********

More-Than-Most
12-13-2018, 10:10 PM
actually that wasnt a flop... that was an offensive foul by kuzma lol

JAZZNC
12-13-2018, 10:16 PM
I just dont get it... How can houston be this bad.
Have there been bigger chokes in the last decade and a half than Paul/Harden/Mike D? Given they have all 3 been phenomenal regular season guys.

Everybody got their money and they let their glue/dirty work guys go for softer players.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-13-2018, 11:08 PM
Lakers from the line

Kuzma 7-7
Rest of the team 8-20

tredigs
12-13-2018, 11:10 PM
Lance Stephenson set-shot heaving an awkward 60 footer when he had 2.5 seconds to take a couple dribbles and get a 40 foot shot in motion really says it all about him. He's NOT a guy you want on the floor when anything matters.

zn23
12-13-2018, 11:25 PM
The Spurs have flipped the script the last 4 games. Playing like a playoff team again.

FlashBolt
12-13-2018, 11:30 PM
Must be nice being a Rockets fan knowing Harden will always get the benefit of a doubt from the refs.

tredigs
12-13-2018, 11:31 PM
Bron went ice cold in the 2nd half. Rox take it.

FlashBolt
12-13-2018, 11:32 PM
Lakers players too afraid of guarding Harden. Problem isn't that most calls are deserved. It's the fact Harden always gets them.

Lakers + Giants
12-13-2018, 11:34 PM
Blouses.

tredigs
12-13-2018, 11:37 PM
50 point triple-double for Harden. Honestly didn't feel like he was THAT good though???? haha.

That said he embarrassed Lebron and the Lakers and that's what counts.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-13-2018, 11:39 PM
Some of these calls Harden gets are out of this world, so ridicilous

FlashBolt
12-13-2018, 11:41 PM
Some of these calls Harden gets are out of this world, so ridicilous

It completely changed how Lakers tried to guard him. Refs need to figure out what to call vs who gets the call. Players who do what Harden does aren't getting that kind of call most of the time.

zn23
12-13-2018, 11:45 PM
6 FTs for LeBron and 19 Fts for James Harden lol, yea that's a joke.

LeBron could play a disgraceful style of basketball like Harden and snap his back every time he gets touched but he's got too much integrity and will get criticized relentlessly for flopping.

zn23
12-13-2018, 11:51 PM
It completely changed how Lakers tried to guard him. Refs need to figure out what to call vs who gets the call. Players who do what Harden does aren't getting that kind of call most of the time.

The one that's really egregious, and ruins the game, is the one where a defender goes over the screen and Harden stops and the defender collides with him and then he throws the ball up and it's a shooting foul. That is very clearly baiting and should be treated as a flop by the refs.

That's the one that should be regulated for next season. Because then it makes it impossible to guard him unless you go under the screen.

tredigs
12-14-2018, 12:02 AM
6 FTs for LeBron and 19 Fts for James Harden lol, yea that's a joke.

LeBron could play a disgraceful style of basketball like Harden and snap his back every time he gets touched but he's got too much integrity and will get criticized relentlessly for flopping.

:laugh:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw

kdspurman
12-14-2018, 12:08 AM
The Spurs have flipped the script the last 4 games. Playing like a playoff team again.

I'd like to see them get some quality wins on the road next, but yeah. Pop is figuring out what lineups work best, and guys are playing much better defensively. I knew it'd be a process (and injuries came at a bad time) but they're starting to figure it out.

Also, who would've thought Rudy Gay would turn into an elite 3 point shooter and really solid defender. He's been great this season

More-Than-Most
12-14-2018, 12:41 AM
It completely changed how Lakers tried to guard him. Refs need to figure out what to call vs who gets the call. Players who do what Harden does aren't getting that kind of call most of the time.

that is why i hate him as a basketball player.. the league has made me hate him because of it. I have never seen anyone get as much help from the refs ever... its insanity and when he is playing your team its the most annoying **** in the world.

More-Than-Most
12-14-2018, 12:43 AM
kuz played well... lebron went cold in the 2nd half but the lakers need rondo back badly.... lonzo ball is a bad bad basketball player... he cant hit free throws and he cant shoot.... he is now shooting 37/30/56 on 8/5/5 for the year... really understand how horrid that is for a player playing 30 minutes a night and is a starter.

mightybosstone
12-14-2018, 12:56 AM
Must be nice being a Rockets fan knowing Harden will always get the benefit of a doubt from the refs.

:violin:

zn23
12-14-2018, 01:00 AM
:laugh:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw

Yes LeBron has flopped before, but he doesn't flop at the rate that Harden flops. Maybe once in a while, LeBron will exaggerate a call, take a fall, but flopping is not an essential part of his game like it is Harden's.

mightybosstone
12-14-2018, 01:03 AM
Yes LeBron has flopped before, but he doesn't flop at the rate that Harden flops. Maybe once in a while, LeBron will exaggerate a call, take a fall, but flopping is not an essential part of his game like it is Harden's.
:violin::violin:

Htownballa1622
12-14-2018, 01:06 AM
I was at the game. LeBron uses his off arm and drops his shoulder quite often. LeBron is also my favorite player.

There's just never been someone who hunts contact at the rate harden does. Does he flop? Sometimes but not at the rate everyone here is making it. Harden iced the game with his late 3s and drives but u won't hear anything about that. Recognize greatness.

Also, teach young guys not to reach or try to stay in front of harden, then he won't get put on line. You have to hope his 3 isn't falling(tonight it was).

More-Than-Most
12-14-2018, 01:25 AM
Lets be clear of course I hate harden and I hate how he plays basketball and I Def hate when my team plays against him and think he is the biggest flop artist this sport has seen in sometime but guess what? It works... Id want my players doing it that often if it works... Its not his fault it works lol... Everyone here that complains about it hates it because it works... Anything to win people.. It sucks but i respect it haha

zn23
12-14-2018, 02:01 AM
Dennis Smith Jr. is a net negative on the Mavs. I don't see him lasting in Dallas.

The Mavs are the most dangerous when Barea is playing with Doncic.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 03:48 AM
1-3.



The one that's really egregious, and ruins the game, is the one where a defender goes over the screen and Harden stops and the defender collides with him and then he throws the ball up and it's a shooting foul. That is very clearly baiting and should be treated as a flop by the refs.

That's the one that should be regulated for next season. Because then it makes it impossible to guard him unless you go under the screen.

Don’t go over the screen if there’s no room? Jesus, you cry all the time.



I was at the game. LeBron uses his off arm and drops his shoulder quite often. LeBron is also my favorite player.

There's just never been someone who hunts contact at the rate harden does. Does he flop? Sometimes but not at the rate everyone here is making it. Harden iced the game with his late 3s and drives but u won't hear anything about that. Recognize greatness.

Also, teach young guys not to reach or try to stay in front of harden, then he won't get put on line. You have to hope his 3 isn't falling(tonight it was).

Yeah. Harden does some trickery but some of these guys think he’s just flopping every play and going to the line for all of his points.



Must be nice being a Rockets fan knowing Harden will always get the benefit of a doubt from the refs.

No he doesn’t.



Have there been bigger chokes in the last decade and a half than Paul/Harden/Mike D? Given they have all 3 been phenomenal regular season guys.

Everybody got their money and they let their glue/dirty work guys go for softer players.

You mean when Paul got hurt for the final two games and they couldn’t beat what some people have said is the all time GOAT team without him? How is that a choke? Also, Ariza gave them a “match that $15 million or I’m out” kinda how JJ did the Clips when he left for Philly. That $15 million turns into god knows what after the luxury hit. Not everyone has Silicon Money.



I swear, some of you people just ooze that hate for no reason.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 04:01 AM
Really dig Kuzma. I was hoping when Lebron signed in LA that Fertitta would decide against re-signing Paul for the max and give Morey the chance to flip him for Kuzma/Hart/Ball and Deng (puke) for salary purposes. Knew it had no chance but I was hoping. Didn’t know Paul would fall off this early. EDIT: Jeez, that still woulda been $35M to about $25M. Yeah, pipe dream. But I was hopin’!

More-Than-Most
12-14-2018, 04:34 AM
Dennis Smith Jr. is a net negative on the Mavs. I don't see him lasting in Dallas.

The Mavs are the most dangerous when Barea is playing with Doncic.

13/4/3 on 44/35/67 isnt nearly that bad... Its def not great but he is young. That is basically better than Ball/fultz who are the top 2 picks in the draft lol

More-Than-Most
12-14-2018, 04:59 AM
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/bulls-to-pull-jabari-parker-from-rotation-544527.html


I love it... just furthers show my basketball knowledge... I said he was trash and now the ****ing bulls are sitting him BECAUSE wait for it....... BECAUSE HE DOESNT ****ING DEFEND. :bow:

why the hell do you think the bucks are so good now???? They let the dead weight walk like I told Giannis he was and put players that actually defend.

tredigs
12-14-2018, 09:10 AM
Yes LeBron has flopped before, but he doesn't flop at the rate that Harden flops. Maybe once in a while, LeBron will exaggerate a call, take a fall, but flopping is not an essential part of his game like it is Harden's.

I'm just messing around, he's actually better about it these days.

Tg11
12-14-2018, 10:12 AM
Lakers
Spurs
Magic
Mavs

2-2 on my picks last night...could have been worse

Rivera
12-14-2018, 10:15 AM
Last Nights Results

L+G 3-1
Bucketss 3-1
TG11 2-2
Tre 2-2
Riv 2-2
Ewing 2-2
KDSpur 2-2
Saddletramp 1-3
JazzNC 1-3


This Weeks Results:

L+G 24-4
ewing 20-8
Riv 19-9
Tre 19-9
KDSpur 19-9
bucketss 19-9
tg11 18-10
Saddletramp 18-10
JazzNC 11-5
Coolbeans 9-1
MtM 8-2

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 11:32 AM
How anyone can be a fan of Harden, I will never understand. He is the biggest ***** in NBA history. Flopping around like a dead ****ing fish all the time. It seriously takes away from how good he is.

So glad he ends up choking on a dick every year come playoffs.

tredigs
12-14-2018, 11:33 AM
Today's games real quick:

Celtics
Hornets
Nets
Bucks
Sixers
Griz
Nuggets
Raptors
Warriors

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 11:33 AM
I'm just messing around, he's actually better about it these days.

I mean, pointing out LeBron's flops vs Harden is like pointing out Drew Barrymore had s short run of being attractive and comparing her to Kate Upton.

mightybosstone
12-14-2018, 01:42 PM
How anyone can be a fan of Harden, I will never understand. He is the biggest ***** in NBA history. Flopping around like a dead ****ing fish all the time. It seriously takes away from how good he is.

So glad he ends up choking on a dick every year come playoffs.

:violin::violin::violin:

zn23
12-14-2018, 02:09 PM
1-3.

Don’t go over the screen if there’s no room? Jesus, you cry all the time.



Lol there's no room because he stops when the defender is trailing so that the defender can run into him an draw a foul. That's ref baiting/ flopping.

I'm not even going to get started with snapping his head back every time he gets into the lane.

If every player in the league started doing that, particularly players like LeBron, fans would be outraged.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 03:26 PM
Lol there's no room because he stops when the defender is trailing so that the defender can run into him an draw a foul. That's ref baiting/ flopping.

I'm not even going to get started with snapping his head back every time he gets into the lane.

If every player in the league started doing that, particularly players like LeBron, fans would be outraged.

“Every time” lol. As someone who has watched 85% of Rockets plays this year, it’s dumb to say anything near “every time”. As for the screens, that’s a legal play. You don’t know how to defend it? Work on it in practice or continue to foul. Seriously, quit crying.

Also, I think that screen play where he stopped to shoot happened once last night. Calm your ****. Oh yeah, you think Harden snaps his head hack “every time he gets in the lane.”

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 03:32 PM
Hold on a sec, zn23.......who’s that guy in your av?

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 03:45 PM
:violin::violin::violin:

always liked you dude. But I still don't get how you support that vagina at all. Like at all. I would be completely embarrassed of him if he were on my team.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 03:47 PM
“Every time” lol. As someone who has watched 85% of Rockets plays this year, it’s dumb to say anything near “every time”. As for the screens, that’s a legal play. You don’t know how to defend it? Work on it in practice or continue to foul. Seriously, quit crying.

Also, I think that screen play where he stopped to shoot happened once last night. Calm your ****. Oh yeah, you think Harden snaps his head hack “every time he gets in the lane.”

why do you protect Harden so much? He attempts to sell fouls literally the entire game. All night. Every night. Sometimes its obviously more theatrical than others, but he is ALWAYS trying to sell a foul.

He makes me miss one portion of the old NBA. If he pulled this **** 20 years ago, the players then would show James what a real foul is. You wanna act? Here, you don't need to act you ****ing vag

tredigs
12-14-2018, 04:12 PM
Just saw a hilarious stat about the discrepancy of field goals to FT's for some of the GOAT scoring wings (all had varying amounts of thousands more field goals). Then Harden at the bottom who literally has more Free Throws than field goals. That is an issue. And at the very least is why we all hate watching that part of his game. Which is in fact the crux of his game.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 04:42 PM
why do you protect Harden so much? He attempts to sell fouls literally the entire game. All night. Every night. Sometimes its obviously more theatrical than others, but he is ALWAYS trying to sell a foul.

He makes me miss one portion of the old NBA. If he pulled this **** 20 years ago, the players then would show James what a real foul is. You wanna act? Here, you don't need to act you ****ing vag

I wasn’t a Lebron fan until everyone overreacted on his decision to go to Miami. When people start overreacting to the main guy on the team I’ve rooted for before he even got there? Yeah, I take exception.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 04:43 PM
I wasn’t a Lebron fan until everyone overreacted on his decision to go to Miami. When people start overreacting to the main guy on the team I’ve rooted for before he even got there? Yeah, I take exception.

ahh, didn't realize you were a Rockets fan. Makes sense.

Yo boy is a puss dude.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 04:44 PM
Just saw a hilarious stat about the discrepancy of field goals to FT's for some of the GOAT scoring wings (all had varying amounts of thousands more field goals). Then Harden at the bottom who literally has more Free Throws than field goals. That is an issue. And at the very least is why we all hate watching that part of his game. Which is in fact the crux of his game.

add to it the theatrics he uses, and it's unwatchable to me. Not even basketball.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 04:59 PM
ahh, didn't realize you were a Rockets fan. Makes sense.

Yo boy is a puss dude.

I didn’t know about the Lebron thread until after I posted what you’re quoting. But this is so apropos of this conversation, too:


........homers haha. I didn't even give a **** about the guy until the hate started. Haven't given a **** about him since he shut most of you up after winning in Cleveland. meh

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 05:16 PM
I didn’t know about the Lebron thread until after I posted what you’re quoting. But this is so apropos of this conversation, too:

Except the hate for LeBron made no sense. None. The hate Harden gets is well deserved.

Dude, his theatrics aren't even basketball. Factor in the years that he played literally hilarious defense, and it's no wonder he has very few fans. From your side, you have zero understanding of how ****ing annoying it is to watch your team be the victim of his b.s. It's not even basketball.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 05:27 PM
Except the hate for LeBron made no sense. None. The hate Harden gets is well deserved.

Dude, his theatrics aren't even basketball. Factor in the years that he played literally hilarious defense, and it's no wonder he has very few fans. From your side, you have zero understanding of how ****ing annoying it is to watch your team be the victim of his b.s. It's not even basketball.

That’s why I brought up defending Lebron (who I didn’t care for either way) and that Harden was “my guy”. Harden tricks players and sometimes refs. But he doesn’t do it at the rate everyone is *****ing about. And the players are so mad at his trickery that they voted him as the players mvp years ago and generally seem to like the guy.


I don’t like flopping either and sometimes I think he’s gone too far. But you guys think it’s the only reason he’s successful and that’s just silly. Getting this butthurt and pussyraw over him gets old.

Hawkeye15
12-14-2018, 05:28 PM
That’s why I brought up defending Lebron (who I didn’t care for either way) and that Harden was “my guy”. Harden tricks players and sometimes refs. But he doesn’t do it at the rate everyone is *****ing about. And the players are so mad at his trickery that they voted him as the players mvp years ago and generally seem to like the guy.


I don’t like flopping either and sometimes I think he’s gone too far. But you guys think it’s the only reason he’s successful and that’s just silly. Getting this butthurt and pussyraw over him gets old.

Almost as old as his tricks continuing to work. Trust me, you would have a far different perspective if he wasn't on your team.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 05:42 PM
Almost as old as his tricks continuing to work. Trust me, you would have a far different perspective if he wasn't on your team.

We’ll leave it at that, then, I guess.

FlashBolt
12-14-2018, 06:24 PM
I agree. If every player in the NBA did what Harden did, the NBA would be unwatchable. That's just a fact. I'm not sure if the refs just focus so much attention on Harden that they feel he deserves the call or if they are just incompetent in reffing how he plays but the calls he gets, I don't see Curry, LeBron, Kyrie, or other players get as frequently. It's impossible to guard him. What got Harden cooking was the fact he got to the FT line so many times and got a flow going. You're not going to beat the Rockets when Harden shoots 20 FT's and is knocking down his shots. Look, I get it. The guy is a master at drawing fouls and manipulating the refs. My dig isn't on Harden. It's that if they give Harden that call, they need to give it to the other team as well. This is the second time vs the Lakers that the Lakers literally gave up because the fouls were being called almost every possession when Harden had the ball. You know why I am upset? Because last night wasn't a game of who is the better team. It was who got the calls and when that becomes the reason, the refs ruined the game for the fans. Simply bad reffing, period.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 06:37 PM
^Harden wasn’t drawing any fouls when he was hitting those late threes and he only did the screen test once. Hart fell for it and it didn’t happen again. It was a close game until then. So again, the *****ing is unwarranted.

FlashBolt
12-14-2018, 06:48 PM
^Harden wasn’t drawing any fouls when he was hitting those late threes and he only did the screen test once. Hart fell for it and it didn’t happen again. It was a close game until then. So again, the *****ing is unwarranted.

None of what you said disputes any of what I said. Sounds like you're trying to ignore the fact that every single fan of any other team sees what they see and dislike it. It's not even Harden's fault as I've stated. Refs are making Harden's job much easier than it has to be when they give him foul calls that other players aren't getting when they do the same. "Close game until then." Again, what's the significance of this? They weren't allowed to play physical with Harden at all. Refs need to sit down together more often and figure out which calls they should enforce. Teams shouldn't be allowed to play physical vs the Grizzlies and then show up playing the Rockets and they can't play any defense. Why should an NBA team have to worry about which ref shows up and they should change their game to fit the needs of that ref? It's absurd.

JAZZNC
12-14-2018, 06:50 PM
1-3.




Don’t go over the screen if there’s no room? Jesus, you cry all the time.




Yeah. Harden does some trickery but some of these guys think he’s just flopping every play and going to the line for all of his points.




No he doesn’t.




You mean when Paul got hurt for the final two games and they couldn’t beat what some people have said is the all time GOAT team without him? How is that a choke? Also, Ariza gave them a “match that $15 million or I’m out” kinda how JJ did the Clips when he left for Philly. That $15 million turns into god knows what after the luxury hit. Not everyone has Silicon Money.



I swear, some of you people just ooze that hate for no reason.

They have all 3 EARNED their choker label through years and years of doing it. And maybe they dont lose that series if Harden doesn't have a complete abomination in Game 7. Really, the MVP goes 2-11 with how many turnovers??? That's choking. You're the MVP, you have to go down fighting but we all know (with the exception of you homers) that when you need Harden the most that's what you're gonna get.

Also, it doesn't matter the reason they let Ariza/Luc go. They did and they were replaced with softer players and it is VERY apparent. I'm not saying they could have done anything differently but that's what happened.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 07:01 PM
None of what you said disputes any of what I said. Sounds like you're trying to ignore the fact that every single fan of any other team sees what they see and dislike it. It's not even Harden's fault as I've stated. Refs are making Harden's job much easier than it has to be when they give him foul calls that other players aren't getting when they do the same. "Close game until then." Again, what's the significance of this? They weren't allowed to play physical with Harden at all. Refs need to sit down together more often and figure out which calls they should enforce. Teams shouldn't be allowed to play physical vs the Grizzlies and then show up playing the Rockets and they can't play any defense. Why should an NBA team have to worry about which ref shows up and they should change their game to fit the needs of that ref? It's absurd.

Every game is officiated differently. You haven’t noticed this? Sometimes they don’t call blatant fouls against Harden and sometimes they call everything. And why should teams have to play physical against the Grizz all the time? I NEVER hear people *****ing about that.


And also, “what got Harden cooking” was he had a 4th quarter break, which he never asks for and came back roaring to go while Lebron didn’t do much at all in the 4th and the youngins are still youngins...... They were still contesting Harden’s shots, he was just playing on an MVP level.


But whatever. The Rockets will choke it all away again and everyone will have some laughs and the Warriors will sleep walk thru the Finals again and it’ll be boring. Yay. Last night’s game was really good and one player pulled away at the end. Stop making ****ing excuses as to why it was him and no one else. Goddamn.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 07:29 PM
They have all 3 EARNED their choker label through years and years of doing it. And maybe they dont lose that series if Harden doesn't have a complete abomination in Game 7. Really, the MVP goes 2-11 with how many turnovers??? That's choking. You're the MVP, you have to go down fighting but we all know (with the exception of you homers) that when you need Harden the most that's what you're gonna get.

Again, Curry/Klay/Dray/KD should’ve never let it get that far. Harden versus that? And that’s a choke? And Ariza and Luc were so awesome in that game, right? But you skip over that. How convenient.


Also, it doesn't matter the reason they let Ariza/Luc go. They did and they were replaced with softer players and it is VERY apparent. I'm not saying they could have done anything differently but that's what happened.

And the Jazz could be the second best team in the league if they would have resigned Hayward but they screwed up but not doing so.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 07:43 PM
Could you imagine how sick the Thunder would be right now if they did not let Durant leave? Pfffft..,.They really screwed up in not re-signing him. JesusChrist.

JAZZNC
12-14-2018, 08:56 PM
Again, Curry/Klay/Dray/KD should’ve never let it get that far. Harden versus that? And that’s a choke? And Ariza and Luc were so awesome in that game, right? But you skip over that. How convenient.



And the Jazz could be the second best team in the league if they would have resigned Hayward but they screwed up but not doing so.

Jesus Christ people like you are insufferable. I never said they screwed up, I literally said they couldn't have done much different just that Ariza and Luc leaving and bringing softer guys is just what happened.

And yes Harden choked big time in Game 7. I realize that Luc wasn't playing and Ariza played like crap but were they the MVP? Nope, that was ya boy Harden who made 2 ****ing shots in a closeout game Haha! With the glory comes the blame. Just how it is. I in no way would fault him for losing but losing like he did (and has so often in the past) is the issue. Harden always comes up the smallest when the stage is the biggest. He just does and you trying to deflect that onto role players is hilarious but hey, that's what you homers do.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 09:30 PM
Jesus Christ people like you are insufferable. I never said they screwed up, I literally said they couldn't have done much different just that Ariza and Luc leaving and bringing softer guys is just what happened.

You said “Everybody got their money and they let their glue/dirty work guys go for softer players.” Sorry if I took that as you thinking they screwed up. It just sounds like you’re saying that they screwed up.



And yes Harden choked big time in Game 7. I realize that Luc wasn't playing and Ariza played like crap but were they the MVP? Nope, that was ya boy Harden who made 2 ****ing shots in a closeout game Haha! With the glory comes the blame. Just how it is. I in no way would fault him for losing but losing like he did (and has so often in the past) is the issue. Harden always comes up the smallest when the stage is the biggest. He just does and you trying to deflect that onto role players is hilarious but hey, that's what you homers do.

So Luc and Paul didn’t play, Ariza was awful and Harden gets **** on because he went 2-11 against that gangster defense? You can hang some of his shortcomings on him but not that one. I know you’re accustomed to great regular season players choking in the playoffs but this would’ve been like *****ing/whining if Malone and Stockton fell to the Bulls.....who also had Hakeem and Gary Payton.

mightybosstone
12-14-2018, 09:41 PM
always liked you dude. But I still don't get how you support that vagina at all. Like at all. I would be completely embarrassed of him if he were on my team.

I'll give you two answers to this question, one that's easier, a second that's a little more complex:

1. The answer should be pretty ****ing obvious. I'm a Rockets fan. I'm from the Houston area; I've lived here pretty much my whole life, and I've adored the Rockets since I was seven. And as long as that player is wearing a Rockets jersey and he isn't committing a ton of crimes or acting like a complete ******* off the court, I'm going to root for him. Harden isn't perfect, but he's a first-ballot Hall of Famer who's stayed out of jail and done a lot for the city of Houston. He's one of the greatest players in franchise history, and if you were a Rockets fan, you'd root for him too.

2. I respect the man's intelligence, and he's willing to do what it takes to score points.

You and everyone else on PSD blames Harden for getting the calls, but he's only taking advantage of a system that allows him to get to the free throw line and get easy baskets. He's crafty, he knows how to get to the rim and he knows how to draw contact in a way that manufactures easy points. People can ***** about how Harden is crapping on the integrity of the game, but he's not the one blowing the whistles.

And if he was on a team you rooted for, you wouldn't give a damn how he was scoring points. People just don't like it because it violates some completely ****ing absurd image of what they think the game of basketball ought to be.

Somewhat related, but I've been reading/listening to a lot of Malcom Gladwell lately. I read "Outliers" and "Tipping Point" and that turned me on to his podcast "Revisionist History." I just finished listening to an amazing podcast on his first season yesterday talking about underhanded free throws. Over 40 minutes, Gladwell breaks down the absurdity of how much better Wilt Chamberlain was the season he shot underhanded free throws and how ridiculous it is that people don't shoot that way despite it being a much easier way to shoot free throws.

Why? Because they think it looks silly. How many great NBA players could have shot 20-30 percent better from the free throw line if they had just sucked up their pride and shot under-handed? Gladwell spends a good chunk of time breaking down Rick Barry, how he shot them under-handed his entire career and how he didn't give a damn about what other people thought of him, because shooting them that way made him a better player.

Ultimately, I don't care if it's shooting free throws under-handed or initiating contact to get to the free-throw line in the first place. This is a ****ing game, and the object of that game is to score ****ing points. The second you start to question the integrity of the sport because of some pedestal you sit on that states the game ought to be played a certain way, you're already overthinking it. It's a game. You put a ball in a basket to earn points on a scoreboard. Harden does that well, he doesn't seem to give a damn what people think of how he scores those points, and neither do I.

Saddletramp
12-14-2018, 10:27 PM
^^^^^Good stuff. Some, including Flashbolt have said they don’t blame Harden and it’s more on the refs. Harden clearly flops sometimes to trick the refs, but most of the time, he’s tricking the defense into fouling him. Big difference but most seem to think they’re the same. They’re not. Offensive players and coaches have tried to trick defenses as soon as Naismith explained the rules. Everyone either adapted or melted away.

Earlier on ESPN, SVG was asked about this and he said teams should play Harden more like the Spurs did-just don’t reach into him on the perimeter and don’t slap for the ball on his drives. Kerr has said the same thing and the two hardest opponents over the years for Harden has been the Spurs and Warriors. Just gotta play him smart.






Not sure your hatred for LeBron allows you to understand what you are watching. I generally respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it much of the time. Your clearly a long time fan who has seen it all. But you have your preferences that seem to dictate how you look at a player. We all do to some degree.

You posted this in the Lebron thread but it could just as easily go here. You’ve stated on many occasions that you used to watch Rockets games with your Rocket fan roommates when you lived in Houston and it got on your nerves and you’d argue with them. Old habits die hard and you’re taking Harden’s play personal because you dealt with it first hand. Just let it go, man. You’re sounding like Ewing or some of the Kobephiles when they talk about Lebron. It’s personal for you so you’re overvaluing his flopping over his tricks.

kdspurman
12-14-2018, 11:31 PM
^^^^^Good stuff. Some, including Flashbolt have said they don’t blame Harden and it’s more on the refs. Harden clearly flops sometimes to trick the refs, but most of the time, he’s tricking the defense into fouling him. Big difference but most seem to think they’re the same. They’re not. Offensive players and coaches have tried to trick defenses as soon as Naismith explained the rules. Everyone either adapted or melted away.

Earlier on ESPN, SVG was asked about this and he said teams should play Harden more like the Spurs did-just don’t reach into him on the perimeter and don’t slap for the ball on his drives. Kerr has said the same thing and the two hardest opponents over the years for Harden has been the Spurs and Warriors. Just gotta play him smart.


They emphasize the **** out of that. If you see Pop near a defender guarding Harden, you can see him animated (sometimes jumping up and down) with his arms out and in defensive position reminding the defender how to defend him.

Pop actually said: "We're pretty used to keeping our hands away from him. It's like he's got the plague and we don't want to touch him."

It doesn't always work, but it helps limit his ability to draw certain types of fouls

JAZZNC
12-15-2018, 12:35 AM
Lol

JAZZNC
12-15-2018, 12:54 AM
You said “Everybody got their money and they let their glue/dirty work guys go for softer players.” Sorry if I took that as you thinking they screwed up. It just sounds like you’re saying that they screwed up.




So Luc and Paul didn’t play, Ariza was awful and Harden gets **** on because he went 2-11 against that gangster defense? You can hang some of his shortcomings on him but not that one. I know you’re accustomed to great regular season players choking in the playoffs but this would’ve been like *****ing/whining if Malone and Stockton fell to the Bulls.....who also had Hakeem and Gary Payton.

I was actually waiting on one of you Houston guys to bring this up. I knew it was gonna happen. Can't admit he's a choker so deflect. Malone choked in the biggest moments of his career, period end of story. So has Harden, period end of story. Spin it however you want. It's not that he lost that game 7 it's how he went down. In absolutely pathetic fashion.

It's also not a coincidence that they both relied heavily on getting to the line for their success and come playoff time that's not going to work as well and hence you get similar results. But homers gonna homer. Carry on.

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 02:15 AM
I was actually waiting on one of you Houston guys to bring this up. I knew it was gonna happen. Can't admit he's a choker so deflect. Malone choked in the biggest moments of his career, period end of story.

And I’m sure at the time you’d defend him if he was without Stockton going up against the Bulls and not playing well. Vice versa with Stockton.


So has Harden, period end of story. Spin it however you want. It's not that he lost that game 7 it's how he went down. In absolutely pathetic fashion.

Yeah, it was bad. But again, it was him, and a bunch of non all stars versus that All World team over there. Gtfohwtwas. And yes, Harden has choked before, not denying that. Just your flippant “Three chokers” ******** caught my eye last night. Added to it was your equally obtuse “they let everyone go and filled those spots with soft players” weak *** stance.


It's also not a coincidence that they both relied heavily on getting to the line for their success and come playoff time that's not going to work as well and hence you get similar results. But homers gonna homer. Carry on.

Yeah, Harden’s got some things to work on. No question.

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 02:21 AM
They emphasize the **** out of that. If you see Pop near a defender guarding Harden, you can see him animated (sometimes jumping up and down) with his arms out and in defensive position reminding the defender how to defend him.

Pop actually said: "We're pretty used to keeping our hands away from him. It's like he's got the plague and we don't want to touch him."

It doesn't always work, but it helps limit his ability to draw certain types of fouls

Yeah, I have no idea why other coaches aren’t as adamant. You’d think that they’d catch on by now but with few exceptions, Harden does whatever he wants on most nights.

FlashBolt
12-15-2018, 03:01 AM
Every game is officiated differently. You haven’t noticed this? Sometimes they don’t call blatant fouls against Harden and sometimes they call everything. And why should teams have to play physical against the Grizz all the time? I NEVER hear people *****ing about that.


And also, “what got Harden cooking” was he had a 4th quarter break, which he never asks for and came back roaring to go while Lebron didn’t do much at all in the 4th and the youngins are still youngins...... They were still contesting Harden’s shots, he was just playing on an MVP level.


But whatever. The Rockets will choke it all away again and everyone will have some laughs and the Warriors will sleep walk thru the Finals again and it’ll be boring. Yay. Last night’s game was really good and one player pulled away at the end. Stop making ****ing excuses as to why it was him and no one else. Goddamn.

You're so grump all the time. I'm sorry you feel that way but most fans (regardless of team association) walk away annoyed watching Harden almost every game. I never said he wasn't playing at a high level but the calls were clearly favored towards Harden. In regards to playing aggressive vs the Grizzlies, yeah, that's why they called them the "grind house." Refs need to be consistent is all I am saying. Harden can't be getting those calls and then when some other player does it, whistle is silent. Have you noticed almost every fan of every team says this? Take off your homer glasses, buddy. Every team has a fan here who brings it up. When there is that much consensus, it's because it's damn true.

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 04:39 AM
You're so grump all the time. I'm sorry you feel that way but most fans (regardless of team association) walk away annoyed watching Harden almost every game. I never said he wasn't playing at a high level but the calls were clearly favored towards Harden. In regards to playing aggressive vs the Grizzlies, yeah, that's why they called them the "grind house." Refs need to be consistent is all I am saying. Harden can't be getting those calls and then when some other player does it, whistle is silent. Have you noticed almost every fan of every team says this? Take off your homer glasses, buddy. Every team has a fan here who brings it up. When there is that much consensus, it's because it's damn true.

Others aren’t doing the same things Harden is doing (drawing fouls and coaxing defenders into mistakes) and at the rate Harden is doing them. There’s plenty of plays where Harden doesn’t get the call but the way you guys make it sound, every play is just a flop and he gets every call. That’s ****ing stupid.

But yes, refs need to be consistent. They need to add an extra ref like Scoots has said and either make the fouls easier to detect or lax some rules. And I’d be ticked, too, if a guy consistently fooled “my” players into consistently committing dumb fouls. They just gotta learn. And yes, I’ve said on many occasions that Harden gets away with stuff. But at the rate you guys are saying? Pffffft.


Also, saying I’m grump all the time is another pot/kettle situation. Hope you understand that more than Chronz did because I’m not explaining it again.

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 05:22 AM
I was actually waiting on one of you Houston guys to bring this up. I knew it was gonna happen. Can't admit he's a choker so deflect. Malone choked in the biggest moments of his career, period end of story. So has Harden, period end of story. Spin it however you want. It's not that he lost that game 7 it's how he went down. In absolutely pathetic fashion.

It's also not a coincidence that they both relied heavily on getting to the line for their success and come playoff time that's not going to work as well and hence you get similar results. But homers gonna homer. Carry on.

They both choked. Harden still has a chance to redeem himself, but he's absolutely choked in big games in the past. But this is a ****ing regular season game. Why is that even part of the discussion? The guy puts up a 50-point triple-double and beasts in the final minutes of a game they really needed to win, and we're talking about playoff choke jobs from years ago? Why is that relevant right now?

But haters gonna hate. Carry on.

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 06:01 AM
You're so grump all the time. I'm sorry you feel that way but most fans (regardless of team association) walk away annoyed watching Harden almost every game. I never said he wasn't playing at a high level but the calls were clearly favored towards Harden. In regards to playing aggressive vs the Grizzlies, yeah, that's why they called them the "grind house." Refs need to be consistent is all I am saying. Harden can't be getting those calls and then when some other player does it, whistle is silent. Have you noticed almost every fan of every team says this? Take off your homer glasses, buddy. Every team has a fan here who brings it up. When there is that much consensus, it's because it's damn true.

How is this supposed lack of consistency Harden's fault? It's his job to score points; it's not his job to score points in a manner you personally agree with and a way in which the referees consistently call equally across every player. He knows he can initiate contact, and the refs are going to call it from time to time.

As for what fans of other teams think, the elephant in the room in these conversations that nobody wants to accept is that everybody is annoyed by the way Harden plays and rants about it ad nauseam, but they would ****ing love it if he was on their team and would accept him in a heartbeat. Everybody *****es and can't believe that any Rockets fan would ever support a guy who plays the game "that way," but if Houston dealt them to [Insert their team here] tomorrow, they would be absolutely ecstatic.

The hypocrisy of that in sports is just nauseating, and I'll admit I'm probably guilty of it, too. When Kobe was at his peak, I would have leaped for joy if I had woken up one morning and found out he had been traded to Houston. We hate until that player is wearing a jersey we associate ourselves with, and that hate turns to admiration pretty much instantaneously. (Lakers fans, I'm looking at you here. Don't even act like you haven't been guilty of this in the last year.)

Also, forget the generalizing comments here on how everyone seems to think Harden gets the benefit of these calls and how useless he would apparently be without them. Did anyone actually watch the rest of the ****ing game the other night? If you took away every single free throw he took that game, he still would have had a 31-point triple double and shot 50+ percent from the floor in a game they desperately needed to win. He still would have scored 12 points in the 4th, including 4-6 shots in the final four minutes, two of which were monster back-to-back 30-footers (the one falling down in Lebron's face was a thing of beauty) to ice the game. And I don't see anyone mentioning that absolutely disgusting dunk he had on McGee in the first few minutes that set the tone for the whole game.

It's almost become blasphemy on PSD to appreciate Harden's game. Like if you say something positive about the guy, you're swarmed by five people ready to point out how invalid every single performance is. But everyone seems completely blind to anything remotely positive he does on the floor because of the 2-3 calls that send him to the free throw line every night that they didn't agree with.

It's mind-boggling...

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 06:04 AM
Kid keeping you up, MBT?

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 06:10 AM
And (god forbid I continue to defend my guy at all here, right?) has anyone actually gone back and watched the fouls on Harden from the game? I have. Here's a link if it helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=33&v=YZ0XRTOOOx0

Of the nine fouls that sent him to the free throw line, I'm not sure how you could complain about six of them. Three times he clearly had guys close late on jump shots and not give him space to land (Hart twice and Kuzma once). The other three, Lonzo clearly gave him a shoulder bump on a fast freak, Chandler throws his hands up but never sets his feet on a drive and Stephenson clearly reaches in on another drive.

A seventh (at about the 0:40 mark), Kuzma clearly is about to get blown by and sticks out his knee to slow Harden down. Did Harden have to fall to sell the foul there? Maybe not, but that's clearly a foul in my book.

The other two I can understand the frustration of. The first one is Harden initiating and selling the contact on a drive (the first foul in the video). The second is at about the 2:00 mark, where Hart fights through the Capela screen and Harden times it perfectly to get up the jump shot right as Hart makes contact with him. Stupid on Hart's part. Smart on Harden's part. But not the sexiest way to get three points.

As an outsider, would those piss me off if I was playing against him? Absolutely. But you're talking about five points out of 50, two admittedly frustrating fouls in an otherwise outstanding performance. And for the guys who committed so many of these fouls, they should know better. Hart fouled Harden on three separate occasions on jump shots, two of which were 3-pointers. If I was his coach, I would have been livid with him. Kuzma guarded him aggressively on drives and got burned. Guys reached in or didn't set their feet or clearly gave bumps on drives.

This isn't rocket science. This isn't some evil genius taking advantage of a system that no other player in the NBA takes advantage of or benefits from. This is a smart, crafty basketball player being aggressive and occasionally taking advantage of overly anxious defenders who made poor split-second decisions he was able to exploit. Period.

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 06:12 AM
Kid keeping you up, MBT?

lol. Not yet. Still have two more months. But it's related. My wife has to get up to pee a lot during the night right now, and I'm really awful at being able to go back to sleep. So of course I made the mistake of checking PSD, and I had to get up to comment.

More-Than-Most
12-15-2018, 06:58 AM
You're so grump all the time. I'm sorry you feel that way but most fans (regardless of team association) walk away annoyed watching Harden almost every game. I never said he wasn't playing at a high level but the calls were clearly favored towards Harden. In regards to playing aggressive vs the Grizzlies, yeah, that's why they called them the "grind house." Refs need to be consistent is all I am saying. Harden can't be getting those calls and then when some other player does it, whistle is silent. Have you noticed almost every fan of every team says this? Take off your homer glasses, buddy. Every team has a fan here who brings it up. When there is that much consensus, it's because it's damn true.

the thing is we throw stones but everybody here would be just as happy if their dude got the calls harden does but yes you are correct i cant think of anyone that likes the way he plays basketball... Everyone flops at one point or another but he literally draws contact so much and a ton of the times its him forcing the contact just for the foul and that is where I wish refs would understand and not give credit for it... Embiid for example has basically gotten down the swim move and draws free throws a good bit because of it... It makes me happy but at the same time it feels dirty when guys do something specifically for the contact and not for an actual basketball play... Others do it too but nobody has it down like harden and kudos to him because he is beating the system i just personally wish Lebron/Shaq etc got the calls he gets throughout their career and werent hated on because of their size.

He works the system... every fan of the game hates it and hates his basketball but if that POS was on my team id be all for it... Much like i hate the patriots and brady for the cheating but it got them superbowls... Whatever gives you a competitive advantage is fine by me as long as they can deal with the consequences around the league... Players hate hardens game and he gives no ****s... It is what it is.

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 06:59 AM
lol. Not yet. Still have two more months. But it's related. My wife has to get up to pee a lot during the night right now, and I'm really awful at being able to go back to sleep. So of course I made the mistake of checking PSD, and I had to get up to comment.

Keep ‘em coming. You’re way better at schoolin’ these guys then I am.

More-Than-Most
12-15-2018, 07:00 AM
lol i dont know why rockets fans defend it... accept it and laugh at the people complaining... Your dude has it down and there is skill is that. Who gives a ****?

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 07:12 AM
And (god forbid I continue to defend my guy at all here, right?) has anyone actually gone back and watched the foul's on Harden from the game? I have. Here's a link if it helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=33&v=YZ0XRTOOOx0

Of the nine fouls that sent him to the free throw line, I'm not sure how you could complain about six of them. Three times he clearly had guys close late on jump shots and not give him space to land (Hart twice and Kuzma once). The other three, Lonzo clearly gave him a shoulder bump on a fast freak, Chandler throws his hands up but never sets his feet on a drive and Stephenson clearly reaches in on another drive.

A seventh (at about the 0:40 mark), Kuzma clearly is about to get blown by and sticks out his knee to slow Harden down. Did Harden have to fall to sell the foul there? Maybe not, but that's clearly a foul in my book.

The other two I can understand the frustration of. The first one is Harden initiating and selling the contact on a drive (the first foul in the video). The second is at about the 2:00 mark, where Hart fights through the Capela screen and Harden times it perfectly to get up the jump shot right as Hart makes contact with him. Stupid on Hart's part. Smart on Harden's part. But not the sexiest way to get three points.

As an outsider, would those piss me off if I was playing against him? Absolutely. But you're talking about five points out of 50, two admittedly frustrating fouls in an otherwise outstanding performance. And for the guys who committed so many of these fouls, they should know better. Hart fouled Harden on three separate occasions on jump shots, two of which were 3-pointers. If I was his coach, I would have been livid with him. Kuzma guarded him aggressively on drives and got burned. Guys reached in or didn't set their feet or clearly gave bumps on drives.

This isn't rocket science. This isn't some evil genius taking advantage of a system that no other player in the NBA takes advantage of or benefits from. This is a smart, crafty basketball player being aggressive and occasionally taking advantage of overly anxious defenders who made poor split-second decisions he was able to exploit. Period.

Exactly. A few of those calls were iffy but for the overwhelming majority, they were clear as day fouls. And even that screen foul that zn23 was crying about.....it’s not trickery. If my center is standing in a spot not moving and I go to just the other side of him and you bump into me, it’s a foul. All day, every day.

BAll turns his back and bumps Harden and Weber doesn’t think it’s a foul? Harden goes past Kuzma, who has his leg out to trip Harden up and Weber doesn’t think that’s a foul? Is that what these guys want to see? As soon as an offensive player makes his move the defensive player can turn to make his move but thrust his knee out? If Harden did that he’d be crucified.



1/10 of his points were possibly iffy and these ****ing fools are crying in their beer that Harden is just gift wrapped everything he’s given. And I’m the grump? ****outtahere

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 09:45 AM
lol i dont know why rockets fans defend it... accept it and laugh at the people complaining... Your dude has it down and there is skill is that. Who gives a ****?

I'm sorry, so over the course of your 96,000 posts in 10 years, you never once defended a player on your team who was being constantly criticized? If I were to go back and find posts of things said about Embiid, Simmons and Fultz, do you think you did an especially good job of "accepting it?" I'm pretty sure you didn't...

JAZZNC
12-15-2018, 01:07 PM
And I’m sure at the time you’d defend him if he was without Stockton going up against the Bulls and not playing well. Vice versa with Stockton.



Yeah, it was bad. But again, it was him, and a bunch of non all stars versus that All World team over there. Gtfohwtwas. And yes, Harden has choked before, not denying that. Just your flippant “Three chokers” ******** caught my eye last night. Added to it was your equally obtuse “they let everyone go and filled those spots with soft players” weak *** stance.



Yeah, Harden’s got some things to work on. No question.

I get it. Pretty sure we agree on this more than we both realize and you're more upset with how I said what I said than what was said.

Saddletramp
12-15-2018, 03:32 PM
I get it. Pretty sure we agree on this more than we both realize and you're more upset with how I said what I said than what was said.

This appears to be a possibility.

FlashBolt
12-15-2018, 09:20 PM
Others aren’t doing the same things Harden is doing (drawing fouls and coaxing defenders into mistakes) and at the rate Harden is doing them. There’s plenty of plays where Harden doesn’t get the call but the way you guys make it sound, every play is just a flop and he gets every call. That’s ****ing stupid.

But yes, refs need to be consistent. They need to add an extra ref like Scoots has said and either make the fouls easier to detect or lax some rules. And I’d be ticked, too, if a guy consistently fooled “my” players into consistently committing dumb fouls. They just gotta learn. And yes, I’ve said on many occasions that Harden gets away with stuff. But at the rate you guys are saying? Pffffft.


Also, saying I’m grump all the time is another pot/kettle situation. Hope you understand that more than Chronz did because I’m not explaining it again.

You are grumpy, dude. You expect your opinion to manifest as factual when it's simply your opinion. The fact is, the majority find Harden to be painful to watch because the calls he gets are seemingly always there for him when other players aren't getting the same. And it's funny you won't ever call me out for saying this because you know every other fan of every other team will say the same as I have. The game was going very well until I just had to quit watching when every play ended up being a foul and I saw the Lakers visibly quit trying to even guard the dude. The momentum shifted every time due to the fouls. Yes, LeBron didn't play well in the 4th and Harden made tough shots but it no longer was a basketball game but a "who got the calls" from the refs and when, as I've stated before, that becomes the deal, fans will tune out.

mightybosstone
12-15-2018, 10:16 PM
You are grumpy, dude. You expect your opinion to manifest as factual when it's simply your opinion. The fact is, the majority find Harden to be painful to watch because the calls he gets are seemingly always there for him when other players aren't getting the same. And it's funny you won't ever call me out for saying this because you know every other fan of every other team will say the same as I have. The game was going very well until I just had to quit watching when every play ended up being a foul and I saw the Lakers visibly quit trying to even guard the dude. The momentum shifted every time due to the fouls. Yes, LeBron didn't play well in the 4th and Harden made tough shots but it no longer was a basketball game but a "who got the calls" from the refs and when, as I've stated before, that becomes the deal, fans will tune out.

You seemed to somehow miss my responses to your post last night. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply repost this for you since you seem to essentially be saying the same thing (feel free to go through and actually respond to my takes if you want to have a legitimate debate on this) ;) :

How is this supposed lack of consistency Harden's fault? It's his job to score points; it's not his job to score points in a manner you personally agree with and a way in which the referees consistently call equally across every player. He knows he can initiate contact, and the refs are going to call it from time to time.

As for what fans of other teams think, the elephant in the room in these conversations that nobody wants to accept is that everybody is annoyed by the way Harden plays and rants about it ad nauseam, but they would ****ing love it if he was on their team and would accept him in a heartbeat. Everybody *****es and can't believe that any Rockets fan would ever support a guy who plays the game "that way," but if Houston dealt them to [Insert their team here] tomorrow, they would be absolutely ecstatic.

The hypocrisy of that in sports is just nauseating, and I'll admit I'm probably guilty of it, too. When Kobe was at his peak, I would have leaped for joy if I had woken up one morning and found out he had been traded to Houston. We hate until that player is wearing a jersey we associate ourselves with, and that hate turns to admiration pretty much instantaneously. (Lakers fans, I'm looking at you here. Don't even act like you haven't been guilty of this in the last year.)

Also, forget the generalizing comments here on how everyone seems to think Harden gets the benefit of these calls and how useless he would apparently be without them. Did anyone actually watch the rest of the ****ing game the other night? If you took away every single free throw he took that game, he still would have had a 31-point triple double and shot 50+ percent from the floor in a game they desperately needed to win. He still would have scored 12 points in the 4th, including 4-6 shots in the final four minutes, two of which were monster back-to-back 30-footers (the one falling down in Lebron's face was a thing of beauty) to ice the game. And I don't see anyone mentioning that absolutely disgusting dunk he had on McGee in the first few minutes that set the tone for the whole game.

It's almost become blasphemy on PSD to appreciate Harden's game. Like if you say something positive about the guy, you're swarmed by five people ready to point out how invalid every single performance is. But everyone seems completely blind to anything remotely positive he does on the floor because of the 2-3 calls that send him to the free throw line every night that they didn't agree with.

It's mind-boggling...

Saddletramp
12-16-2018, 03:31 AM
You are grumpy, dude. You expect your opinion to manifest as factual when it's simply your opinion. The fact is, the majority find Harden to be painful to watch because the calls he gets are seemingly always there for him when other players aren't getting the same. And it's funny you won't ever call me out for saying this because you know every other fan of every other team will say the same as I have. The game was going very well until I just had to quit watching when every play ended up being a foul and I saw the Lakers visibly quit trying to even guard the dude. The momentum shifted every time due to the fouls. Yes, LeBron didn't play well in the 4th and Harden made tough shots but it no longer was a basketball game but a "who got the calls" from the refs and when, as I've stated before, that becomes the deal, fans will tune out.

What a terrible post, especially after you ignore everything Bosstone said. Go watch the video Bosstone provided. And “every other fan of every other team” agrees with you? Hyperbole much? And even if so, doesn’t mean that they’re right.


Just terrible.

Hawkeye15
12-17-2018, 10:53 AM
You seemed to somehow miss my responses to your post last night. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and simply repost this for you since you seem to essentially be saying the same thing (feel free to go through and actually respond to my takes if you want to have a legitimate debate on this) ;) :

How is this supposed lack of consistency Harden's fault? It's his job to score points; it's not his job to score points in a manner you personally agree with and a way in which the referees consistently call equally across every player. He knows he can initiate contact, and the refs are going to call it from time to time.

As for what fans of other teams think, the elephant in the room in these conversations that nobody wants to accept is that everybody is annoyed by the way Harden plays and rants about it ad nauseam, but they would ****ing love it if he was on their team and would accept him in a heartbeat. Everybody *****es and can't believe that any Rockets fan would ever support a guy who plays the game "that way," but if Houston dealt them to [Insert their team here] tomorrow, they would be absolutely ecstatic.

The hypocrisy of that in sports is just nauseating, and I'll admit I'm probably guilty of it, too. When Kobe was at his peak, I would have leaped for joy if I had woken up one morning and found out he had been traded to Houston. We hate until that player is wearing a jersey we associate ourselves with, and that hate turns to admiration pretty much instantaneously. (Lakers fans, I'm looking at you here. Don't even act like you haven't been guilty of this in the last year.)

Also, forget the generalizing comments here on how everyone seems to think Harden gets the benefit of these calls and how useless he would apparently be without them. Did anyone actually watch the rest of the ****ing game the other night? If you took away every single free throw he took that game, he still would have had a 31-point triple double and shot 50+ percent from the floor in a game they desperately needed to win. He still would have scored 12 points in the 4th, including 4-6 shots in the final four minutes, two of which were monster back-to-back 30-footers (the one falling down in Lebron's face was a thing of beauty) to ice the game. And I don't see anyone mentioning that absolutely disgusting dunk he had on McGee in the first few minutes that set the tone for the whole game.

It's almost become blasphemy on PSD to appreciate Harden's game. Like if you say something positive about the guy, you're swarmed by five people ready to point out how invalid every single performance is. But everyone seems completely blind to anything remotely positive he does on the floor because of the 2-3 calls that send him to the free throw line every night that they didn't agree with.

It's mind-boggling...

well, when you are the most unwatchable star by a mile, you don't have a lot of fans dude. Either embrace it, or avoid message boards. Sorry man, but his tactics aren't even borderline weak, they are pure vagina.

Hawkeye15
12-17-2018, 10:59 AM
I'll give you two answers to this question, one that's easier, a second that's a little more complex:

1. The answer should be pretty ****ing obvious. I'm a Rockets fan. I'm from the Houston area; I've lived here pretty much my whole life, and I've adored the Rockets since I was seven. And as long as that player is wearing a Rockets jersey and he isn't committing a ton of crimes or acting like a complete ******* off the court, I'm going to root for him. Harden isn't perfect, but he's a first-ballot Hall of Famer who's stayed out of jail and done a lot for the city of Houston. He's one of the greatest players in franchise history, and if you were a Rockets fan, you'd root for him too.

2. I respect the man's intelligence, and he's willing to do what it takes to score points.

You and everyone else on PSD blames Harden for getting the calls, but he's only taking advantage of a system that allows him to get to the free throw line and get easy baskets. He's crafty, he knows how to get to the rim and he knows how to draw contact in a way that manufactures easy points. People can ***** about how Harden is crapping on the integrity of the game, but he's not the one blowing the whistles.

And if he was on a team you rooted for, you wouldn't give a damn how he was scoring points. People just don't like it because it violates some completely ****ing absurd image of what they think the game of basketball ought to be.

Somewhat related, but I've been reading/listening to a lot of Malcom Gladwell lately. I read "Outliers" and "Tipping Point" and that turned me on to his podcast "Revisionist History." I just finished listening to an amazing podcast on his first season yesterday talking about underhanded free throws. Over 40 minutes, Gladwell breaks down the absurdity of how much better Wilt Chamberlain was the season he shot underhanded free throws and how ridiculous it is that people don't shoot that way despite it being a much easier way to shoot free throws.

Why? Because they think it looks silly. How many great NBA players could have shot 20-30 percent better from the free throw line if they had just sucked up their pride and shot under-handed? Gladwell spends a good chunk of time breaking down Rick Barry, how he shot them under-handed his entire career and how he didn't give a damn about what other people thought of him, because shooting them that way made him a better player.

Ultimately, I don't care if it's shooting free throws under-handed or initiating contact to get to the free-throw line in the first place. This is a ****ing game, and the object of that game is to score ****ing points. The second you start to question the integrity of the sport because of some pedestal you sit on that states the game ought to be played a certain way, you're already overthinking it. It's a game. You put a ball in a basket to earn points on a scoreboard. Harden does that well, he doesn't seem to give a damn what people think of how he scores those points, and neither do I.

Not sure why I have to say this, but Harden IS a terrific offensive player, capable of destroying defenses.

But his tactics make him nearly impossible to like. Notice he has what, like zero fans outside of Houston? There is a reason for that man.

He takes advantage of the rules. Good for him. Seriously. If the NBA won't fix it, then guys like Harden will continue to be called out. But, there aren't others like him. He is so skilled at creating violent reactions to even the smallest amount of contact, and his finishing ability is amazing.

Whether we like it or not, we like our contact sports to be manly. Underhand free throws would probably be fine honestly, but flopping around and acting like you were shot on a reach is unacceptable for men to watch and be a fan of. It just is.

I lived in Houston from 2000-2014 (Galveston prior), so I watched a LOT of Rockets games, and went to a lot of them. It drove me insane when Harden started doing what he does, yet of course Rockets fans, like yourself, defend him.

It's ok to admit your guy is a *****. And great. You can be both.

mightybosstone
12-17-2018, 03:19 PM
Not sure why I have to say this, but Harden IS a terrific offensive player, capable of destroying defenses.

But his tactics make him nearly impossible to like. Notice he has what, like zero fans outside of Houston? There is a reason for that man.

He takes advantage of the rules. Good for him. Seriously. If the NBA won't fix it, then guys like Harden will continue to be called out. But, there aren't others like him. He is so skilled at creating violent reactions to even the smallest amount of contact, and his finishing ability is amazing.

Whether we like it or not, we like our contact sports to be manly. Underhand free throws would probably be fine honestly, but flopping around and acting like you were shot on a reach is unacceptable for men to watch and be a fan of. It just is.

I lived in Houston from 2000-2014 (Galveston prior), so I watched a LOT of Rockets games, and went to a lot of them. It drove me insane when Harden started doing what he does, yet of course Rockets fans, like yourself, defend him.

It's ok to admit your guy is a *****. And great. You can be both.

Since when is being liked by fans more important than having individual and team success in the NBA? Did Kobe care that he was liked? Did Duncan, or Oscar, or Barry? No. They did their jobs, and they were respected for doing their jobs well and being phenomenal NBA players. Whether fans outside of Houston like him or not is completely irrelevant to me. I don't give a damn if other fans hate him as long as the guy is scoring points and helping the Rockets win games.

And, frankly, if you're a fan of a team, you SHOULDN'T like a ton of other guys who don't play for your team. That's kind of how fandom works. Outside of Lebron and maybe a handful of other guys, there are very few NBA players who aren't Rockets I can honestly say I like. If you're hated outside of the city you play for, you probably do your job pretty well.

Also, what really bothers me about PSD's opinion of Harden is this notion that he's the only guy initiating contact to get to the free throw line or occasionally flopping to get a call. This has been happening for years. Does he do it more than most? Probably, but if I took five minutes, I could easily find you dozens of examples of flopping or contact initiation from other players. Manu was like the Harden before Harden in so many ways, including drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line. But when he retired, PSD treated him like a god for some reason. The difference between Harden and Manu is Harden is just better than Manu at all of those things.

Finally, do I think it's acceptable "for a grown man to act like he was shot on a reach?" Yes. This is a game. And the ultimate goal is to score points. If the refs are going to call it, then you should absolutely do everything in your power to draw that contact and get those points. I also think the idea that Harden is embellishing every single call to get to the free throw line is bogus. If he drives, a guy reaches in and Harden moves his arms to attempt a layoup, but his arms get hit and the ball goes flying, that's a foul on the defender. Period.

So, no, I don't think he's "a *****." I think he's a smart, crafty NBA player who isn't especially well liked by people outside of Houston, and for good reason. Is his brand of basketball always fun to watch? No. But the man is the MVP for a reason, and it's absurd to me how little respect he gets on PSD sometimes. He put up a 50-point triple double the other night, and all people want to talk about are the 3-4 questionable calls that went his way. That's what's frustrating to me, and why I feel like I have to defend him in the first place.

mightybosstone
12-17-2018, 03:30 PM
well, when you are the most unwatchable star by a mile, you don't have a lot of fans dude.
Don't care if he has fans outside of Houston. But I've covered this already in my previous posts.


Either embrace it, or avoid message boards.
No thanks. Pretty sure I've been posting here for more than a decade and contributed tens of thousands of posts to the discussion of the NBA. I'll continue to post as I see fit. You're welcome to disagree with me, but nobody tells me what opinion I can and cannot express on this forum when it comes to the NBA.


Sorry man, but his tactics aren't even borderline weak, they are pure vagina.
And if the Wolves traded for him tomorrow, you would welcome that vagina with open arms and probably celebrate how much better your team just got.

Hawkeye15
12-17-2018, 04:21 PM
Since when is being liked by fans more important than having individual and team success in the NBA? Did Kobe care that he was liked? Did Duncan, or Oscar, or Barry? No. They did their jobs, and they were respected for doing their jobs well and being phenomenal NBA players. Whether fans outside of Houston like him or not is completely irrelevant to me. I don't give a damn if other fans hate him as long as the guy is scoring points and helping the Rockets win games.

And, frankly, if you're a fan of a team, you SHOULDN'T like a ton of other guys who don't play for your team. That's kind of how fandom works. Outside of Lebron and maybe a handful of other guys, there are very few NBA players who aren't Rockets I can honestly say I like. If you're hated outside of the city you play for, you probably do your job pretty well.

Also, what really bothers me about PSD's opinion of Harden is this notion that he's the only guy initiating contact to get to the free throw line or occasionally flopping to get a call. This has been happening for years. Does he do it more than most? Probably, but if I took five minutes, I could easily find you dozens of examples of flopping or contact initiation from other players. Manu was like the Harden before Harden in so many ways, including drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line. But when he retired, PSD treated him like a god for some reason. The difference between Harden and Manu is Harden is just better than Manu at all of those things.

Finally, do I think it's acceptable "for a grown man to act like he was shot on a reach?" Yes. This is a game. And the ultimate goal is to score points. If the refs are going to call it, then you should absolutely do everything in your power to draw that contact and get those points. I also think the idea that Harden is embellishing every single call to get to the free throw line is bogus. If he drives, a guy reaches in and Harden moves his arms to attempt a layoup, but his arms get hit and the ball goes flying, that's a foul on the defender. Period.

So, no, I don't think he's "a *****." I think he's a smart, crafty NBA player who isn't especially well liked by people outside of Houston, and for good reason. Is his brand of basketball always fun to watch? No. But the man is the MVP for a reason, and it's absurd to me how little respect he gets on PSD sometimes. He put up a 50-point triple double the other night, and all people want to talk about are the 3-4 questionable calls that went his way. That's what's frustrating to me, and why I feel like I have to defend him in the first place.

you don't have to care if he is liked. Just don't act shocked when others despise watching his antics. Are there others that flop? Yes. Are there others that do it on an academy award winning level, or make it a staple to their game? No. There are not. He has scored more FT's than FG's. Think about that. When your game is predicated on finding a body and selling the foul, it gets annoying to watch.

To combine this with my your other post-no, if the Wolves acquired him, I wouldn't watch. I tuned out with Butler, I would do it with Harden. The point of watching sports is to enjoy it. I don't get paid to do it, so I won't suffer through watching guys I don't like. I despise Harden's antics, just like I don't dig Butler's eye bleeding isolation play. My loyalty has boundaries.

mightybosstone
12-17-2018, 05:29 PM
you don't have to care if he is liked. Just don't act shocked when others despise watching his antics.
Never said I was shocked. I learned a long time ago not to be shocked by the stuff I read on PSD. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with it and present my take as to why I disagree with it.


Are there others that flop? Yes. Are there others that do it on an academy award winning level, or make it a staple to their game? No. There are not. He has scored more FT's than FG's. Think about that. When your game is predicated on finding a body and selling the foul, it gets annoying to watch.
Less than one-third of his points this season come from the free throw line. Suppose one-third of that one-third is bogus calls or a result of him selling a foul (an absurd assumption to begin with). Does 10 percent of a player's production being lame negate the "legitimate" 90 percent that isn't?


To combine this with my your other post-no, if the Wolves acquired him, I wouldn't watch. I tuned out with Butler, I would do it with Harden. The point of watching sports is to enjoy it. I don't get paid to do it, so I won't suffer through watching guys I don't like. I despise Harden's antics, just like I don't dig Butler's eye bleeding isolation play. My loyalty has boundaries.
Then you and I have very different approaches to fandom. I love watching the NBA, but my loyalty is to the Rockets first and foremost.

Also, I think the assertion that Harden is "boring" to watch makes zero sense to me. Did you watch that Lakers game? The dude had some amazing plays that night. Dunked on McGee. Four-point play. Thirty-foot three-pointer over Lebron in the final minutes. He has amazing handles, crazy range on his jumper, silky smooth moves around the basket, an ability to finish at the rim... What more could you want out of a player offensively? What makes him so boring to watch?

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on pretty much everything here. But the dude is an MVP and is clearly one of the best players in the league, so I frankly don't really care whether you like him or not. If you choose not respect him, I suppose that's your own prerogative. :shrug:

Rivera
12-18-2018, 12:52 PM
Harden is hard to watch. He should be easier to watch with his ball handling, his step back, his ability to shoot, his total offensive game. Should be a treat and one of the funnest players to watch. But I do agree with the sentiment that hes hard to watch. Dude throws his arms, his legs, flails at every slight hint of contact. Hes frustrating to watch and frustrating watching the officials give in to Hardens antics. Dudes amazing at it.

He is one of those players that if hes on your team. You love him. If he isnt on your team, you cant stand him