PDA

View Full Version : Is Ariza the missing ingredient for the Rockets ??



smith&wesson
12-05-2018, 04:57 PM
Looking at the Rockets they pretty much have the same team as last year minus Ariza who is the most notable player that is no longer there.

With Ariza being made available possibly should the Rockets try and get him back ? They miss his defence and he was a good glue player for their chemistry imo.

Heediot
12-05-2018, 04:59 PM
Looking at the Rockets they pretty much have the same team as last year minus Ariza who is the most notable player that is no longer there.

With Ariza being made available possibly should the Rockets try and get him back ? They miss his defence and he was a good glue player for their chemistry imo.

Definitely. Losing Luc hurts too. If one stayed (and healthy) they might of been able to overcome.

smith&wesson
12-05-2018, 05:01 PM
Yeah they miss luc to but I feel like Ariza had the bigger impact obviously and Tucker kinda replaces Luc but not really Ariza

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-05-2018, 05:06 PM
Rockets are capped out. Only other way is if Ariza is bought out. But I think Suns can get value for a big expiring contract.

Rivera
12-05-2018, 05:40 PM
yes and no

let me try to explain

would a player like Ariza help out the Rockets today? Absoultley. A player who doesnt need the ball, a good 3pt shooter, a good defender that can switch at almost any position would help out the Rockets starting 5. They thought Ennis could replace that, but Ariza is slightly a better player with more exprience who wont make as many mistakes as Ennis.

They have 0 depth and been littered with injuries is the more concerning thing for me than Ariza. Last year, Rockets were 10/11 players with quality depth in the regular season (Harden/Cp3/Tucker/Capella/Ariza/Gordon/Green/NeNe/Ryno/Luc)

This season? Littered with injuries and no depth. NeNe is working himself back, House shouldnt be playing as many minutes as he does and he got cut, because he just isnt that good. Criss isnt as good as Ryno, Brandon Knight who can give them a scoring punch, hasnt played due to injury, thats the real problem with the Rockets. This year their Harden/CP3/Tucker/Caplla/Ennis/Gordon/Green and a cast of misfits/rejects off the bench

They just dont have the (quality) depth for the regular season that they did last year

ewing
12-05-2018, 06:11 PM
yes and no

let me try to explain

would a player like Ariza help out the Rockets today? Absoultley. A player who doesnt need the ball, a good 3pt shooter, a good defender that can switch at almost any position would help out the Rockets starting 5. They thought Ennis could replace that, but Ariza is slightly a better player with more exprience who wont make as many mistakes as Ennis.

They have 0 depth and been littered with injuries is the more concerning thing for me than Ariza. Last year, Rockets were 10/11 players with quality depth in the regular season (Harden/Cp3/Tucker/Capella/Ariza/Gordon/Green/NeNe/Ryno/Luc)

This season? Littered with injuries and no depth. NeNe is working himself back, House shouldnt be playing as many minutes as he does and he got cut, because he just isnt that good. Criss isnt as good as Ryno, Brandon Knight who can give them a scoring punch, hasnt played due to injury, thats the real problem with the Rockets. This year their Harden/CP3/Tucker/Caplla/Ennis/Gordon/Green and a cast of misfits/rejects off the bench

They just dont have the (quality) depth for the regular season that they did last year

Things are worse then I thought. Eddie House is on the Rockets?

IndyRealist
12-05-2018, 06:21 PM
This has happened with every CP3 team. Your top 3 is so stacked that you think the rest doesn't matter. Trevor Ariza is not where you try to save money.

Rivera
12-05-2018, 06:22 PM
Things are worse then I thought. Eddie House is on the Rockets?

eddie house might be an upgrade :laugh2:

it was that danuel house jr kid they had for a week or 2

Hawkeye15
12-05-2018, 06:26 PM
yeah Paul is not the same player this year (especially defensively), the Rockets defense in general has been terrible, and yes, losing Muc, and Ariza hurts, as does Ryan Anderson.

They played over their heads last year, and they are playing under this year. I was shocked last years team won 65 games honestly. And I will be shocked when this years wins 45.

Swift Game
12-05-2018, 06:43 PM
Quick question for everyone.

Is Ariza a better option than kcp ( pope for the Lakers) at this point?



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

JAZZNC
12-05-2018, 06:44 PM
I know they had to do it but that Paul contract just looks worse by the day.

aman_13
12-05-2018, 07:16 PM
Not sure how this thread made it here but he would be a nice add for the Raptors.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

smith&wesson
12-05-2018, 07:41 PM
Not sure how this thread made it here but he would be a nice add for the Raptors.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

I moved it. Posted it in the raps forum by mistake

smith&wesson
12-05-2018, 07:42 PM
This has happened with every CP3 team. Your top 3 is so stacked that you think the rest doesn't matter. Trevor Ariza is not where you try to save money.

Maybe every team Carmelo has touched as well

c.c.
12-05-2018, 07:51 PM
Just here to read you guys posts and replies, I’m speechless

THE MTL
12-05-2018, 09:50 PM
Chris Paul should have given money back on his new contract. He strapped the Rockets by commanding 40mil per season. He could have easily taken 25 mil per season and left the 15 mil for Trevor Ariza.

Rockets needed to build on what they had last year. Not subtract

More-Than-Most
12-05-2018, 09:58 PM
Losing him hurts but it wouldnt have mattered... This is what the Mike D system does and why you cant win with it... the first year you surprise people and then the wheels start coming off... He maintained it a bit with the suns only because at the time the run and gun offense was more rare... Now everybody runs and guns and his system wont have the sustainability it did have at one point.


The shot clock thing probably also kills them because before they werent a good defensive team to begin with and now the teams are basically running with them as well and is gassing the rockets on both ends which hurts their overall bread and butter style.

smith&wesson
12-05-2018, 10:12 PM
Just here to read you guys posts and replies, I’m speechless

Interested in getting rockets fans opinions on this

Heediot
12-06-2018, 05:18 AM
Chris Paul should have given money back on his new contract. He strapped the Rockets by commanding 40mil per season. He could have easily taken 25 mil per season and left the 15 mil for Trevor Ariza.

Rockets needed to build on what they had last year. Not subtract

One thing I don't like about the banana boat boys and some of these hollywoodish stars (even Kobe), these guys care about the dollars first, make no mistake about it. everyone wants to win, but most guys want the money first. not everyone is dirk and timmy. it's understandable when your in your prime but once you hit near mid 30's I think guys should look hard into sacrificing.

Heediot
12-06-2018, 05:21 AM
another thing, the system is built so these clowns can demand a max and if the situation call for it manipulate their way to a trade to a contender lol.

Hawkeye15
12-06-2018, 10:50 AM
One thing I don't like about the banana boat boys and some of these hollywoodish stars (even Kobe), these guys care about the dollars first, make no mistake about it. everyone wants to win, but most guys want the money first. not everyone is dirk and timmy. it's understandable when your in your prime but once you hit near mid 30's I think guys should look hard into sacrificing.

yeah but most don't, nor should they. It's literally their last chance to make money they will NEVER see again. Sports is funny. Every major sport has guys on the back end of their careers being paid for what they did prior, so they are hurting teams. Paul is a great player still, but his contract is a negative, and will only get worse.

MygirlhatesCod
12-06-2018, 11:31 AM
I really love how the rockets are playing right now. Makes me happy AF!

Chronz
12-06-2018, 04:02 PM
F no. Lol dafuq

Heediot
12-06-2018, 06:10 PM
yeah but most don't, nor should they. It's literally their last chance to make money they will NEVER see again. Sports is funny. Every major sport has guys on the back end of their careers being paid for what they did prior, so they are hurting teams. Paul is a great player still, but his contract is a negative, and will only get worse.

They can do what they do in a sense. I just don't like guys not walking the walk about winning is everything. Some guys show more walk then others. Timmy, Dirk, Pau. Other guys guys are more about legacy and fortune vs. winning compared to the select few. Just be real about it, no one will judge them from the reasons you state. But if you talk ish, you get back criticism from guys like me.

kobe4thewinbang
12-06-2018, 07:04 PM
Ariza can't shoot. They're making a move most def, but not for Ariza.

Gotta be some other dude out there that is similar but can score better.

I could see them going after Otto Porter, KCP...maybe even Patty Mills.

FlashBolt
12-06-2018, 07:16 PM
I remember MBT got so excited the Rockets were on a winning streak and implied that I was wrong about the Rockets.. No, I am not. They aren't a very good overall team. They may get by with Cp3 and Harden both playing well in a random game but the overall outlook from many people is that this team is very different from the previous season. And it's not just the fact that the Rockets have gotten worse but also, teams have gotten better. The West is wide open (outside of the Warriors) and so deep where a few games separate making the 1st seed or 12th seed. Remember when I said CP3's contract will hurt the Rockets? The decline is already evident. His defensive reputation is simply just that: reputation. He's not nearly as quick and his BBIQ doesn't make up for his smaller stature and father time kicking in. If you thought CP3's contract is bad today, wait until 3-4 years later when you're paying him above $40 million. This is going to be one of those contracts that are "untradeable." James Harden is the only consistent player on this team outside of Capela (who really, is a complimentary role player than anything else). Rockets missed their best shot last year. They resigned CP3 out of despiration and the owner tightened his wallet. CP3 isn't worth that money. I get that you had to sign someone and you had a lot of success with him but he simply isn't worth it. He's getting older (33 for a PG in this league is ridiculous since they are asked to do so much), constantly gets injured, and his small stature already puts him at a disadvantage. I'm sorry to inform Rockets fans but really, last year was your best shot and I just don't see how you guys can climb back into contention being as salary strapped as you are for now and the next few years.

Saddletramp
12-07-2018, 02:19 AM
I remember MBT got so excited the Rockets were on a winning streak and implied that I was wrong about the Rockets.. No, I am not. They aren't a very good overall team. They may get by with Cp3 and Harden both playing well in a random game but the overall outlook from many people is that this team is very different from the previous season. And it's not just the fact that the Rockets have gotten worse but also, teams have gotten better. The West is wide open (outside of the Warriors) and so deep where a few games separate making the 1st seed or 12th seed. Remember when I said CP3's contract will hurt the Rockets? The decline is already evident. His defensive reputation is simply just that: reputation. He's not nearly as quick and his BBIQ doesn't make up for his smaller stature and father time kicking in. If you thought CP3's contract is bad today, wait until 3-4 years later when you're paying him above $40 million. This is going to be one of those contracts that are "untradeable." James Harden is the only consistent player on this team outside of Capela (who really, is a complimentary role player than anything else). Rockets missed their best shot last year. They resigned CP3 out of despiration and the owner tightened his wallet. CP3 isn't worth that money. I get that you had to sign someone and you had a lot of success with him but he simply isn't worth it. He's getting older (33 for a PG in this league is ridiculous since they are asked to do so much), constantly gets injured, and his small stature already puts him at a disadvantage. I'm sorry to inform Rockets fans but really, last year was your best shot and I just don't see how you guys can climb back into contention being as salary strapped as you are for now and the next few years.

Can’t really argue any of this. I thought they’d at least get another year or two out of Paul before he started his descent, They can still salvage this season but they need to get it going.

And no, OP, Ariza isn’t the reason. One of many, but not exclusive.

Vinylman
12-07-2018, 12:36 PM
Can’t really argue any of this. I thought they’d at least get another year or two out of Paul before he started his descent, They can still salvage this season but they need to get it going.

And no, OP, Ariza isn’t the reason. One of many, but not exclusive.

The speed of their decline is surprising but I also think it is the rest of the league is starting to catch up... They still probably win around 48-50 games and make the playoffs if everyone stays healthy.

JAZZNC
12-07-2018, 12:54 PM
The speed of their decline is surprising but I also think it is the rest of the league is starting to catch up... They still probably win around 48-50 games and make the playoffs if everyone stays healthy.

I honestly don't know that they can get to 50 wins. And when is the inevitable Paul injury gonna hit? I mean statistically it's a matter of when not if. And when it does they are really in trouble.

Vinylman
12-07-2018, 01:11 PM
I honestly don't know that they can get to 50 wins. And when is the inevitable Paul injury gonna hit? I mean statistically it's a matter of when not if. And when it does they are really in trouble.

yeah.. I hear ya... which is why I said if they stay healthy... they still have some moves they can make at the deadline if they want to mortgage the future.

Saddletramp
12-07-2018, 03:36 PM
yeah.. I hear ya... which is why I said if they stay healthy... they still have some moves they can make at the deadline if they want to mortgage the future.

I think they might have to. Then if they don’t win now, they can blame the Warriors dominance and give a “We tried, guys!” Then they’d be terrible going forward and Fertitta will just get to make money off of a bad team. He wants to win, but he wants to make money even more while making it look like he’s trying to win.

Vinylman
12-07-2018, 03:54 PM
I think they might have to. Then if they don’t win now, they can blame the Warriors dominance and give a “We tried, guys!” Then they’d be terrible going forward and Fertitta will just get to make money off of a bad team. He wants to win, but he wants to make money even more while making it look like he’s trying to win.

yeah … with roughly $90 million tied up between 3 guys starting next year it will be tough. Go get something this year or use those picks to get someone to absorb CP3 into their cap after next year while getting a massive TPE (I could see morey actually doing it)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-07-2018, 04:28 PM
1071113432898961408

Rockets looking to trade for a wing or guard and offering up picks and Knight. But so far no teams want Knight.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-10-2018, 09:04 AM
1071929656318877697

Hawkeye15
12-10-2018, 10:52 AM
They can do what they do in a sense. I just don't like guys not walking the walk about winning is everything. Some guys show more walk then others. Timmy, Dirk, Pau. Other guys guys are more about legacy and fortune vs. winning compared to the select few. Just be real about it, no one will judge them from the reasons you state. But if you talk ish, you get back criticism from guys like me.

well, some guys are willing to take less money but most aren't. Especially guys not around winning cultures. Winning culture breeds sacrifice. In Duncan/Dirk's case, living in TX absolutely helps absorb the blow of taking less money.

tredigs
12-10-2018, 11:57 AM
The main difference is clearly that they had a superstar impact player in Chris Paul whose role is now being filled by an effectively average starting point guard.

It's unlikely that his decline has come THIS fast, even with this being the age that it happens for many point guards. He should see some progression to the mean, but if he can't get back to his prime self, they are no longer a threat, and are also screwed going forward with that contract.

tredigs
12-10-2018, 12:50 PM
Also, Ariza appears washed himself. So he would not be offering them much.

Rivera
12-10-2018, 01:02 PM
Also, Ariza appears washed himself. So he would not be offering them much.

hard to tell tbh. idk if hes washed, or if he just doesnt care and was going after one more big pay day

i could see him playing better if he gets moved to a contender

Scoots
12-10-2018, 05:35 PM
yeah Paul is not the same player this year (especially defensively), the Rockets defense in general has been terrible, and yes, losing Muc, and Ariza hurts, as does Ryan Anderson.

They played over their heads last year, and they are playing under this year. I was shocked last years team won 65 games honestly. And I will be shocked when this years wins 45.

At least a part of CP3s fall defensively is that he'd been relying more and more on grabbing and this year with the refs calling it more this year his lost lateral explosion is really showing.

I think you are right though, almost to a man the team played great last year, this year they are all down at least a little and some a lot and that's all it takes to have it fall apart.

More-Than-Most
12-10-2018, 05:51 PM
The main difference is clearly that they had a superstar impact player in Chris Paul whose role is now being filled by an effectively average starting point guard.

It's unlikely that his decline has come THIS fast, even with this being the age that it happens for many point guards. He should see some progression to the mean, but if he can't get back to his prime self, they are no longer a threat, and are also screwed going forward with that contract.

Or they were never actually good to begin with... They caught lightning in a bottle much like most teams that first run with Mike D.... They were a fluke like I stated all along... Harden was never going to maintain being a 2 way player and cp3 is being asked to defend on a team that has 0 team defense.

Rivera
12-10-2018, 05:56 PM
they had really good team defense last year tho. they were switching everything and they surrounded Harden with 4 good defenders (CP3/Ariza/Tucker/Capella)

they found some success in the playoffs with Harden guarding 4s, he was really efficient guarding 4s in the playoffs

i know there depth sucks this year, but im surprised by switching ennis/ariza they cant get back to that switching houston rockets defense they had last season

More-Than-Most
12-10-2018, 05:58 PM
they had really good team defense last year tho. they were switching everything and they surrounded Harden with 4 good defenders (CP3/Ariza/Tucker/Capella)

they found some success in the playoffs with Harden guarding 4s, he was really efficient guarding 4s in the playoffs

i know there depth sucks this year, but im surprised by switching ennis/ariza they cant get back to that switching houston rockets defense they had last season

I still think alot to do with it is mike D system the first year... Their offense last year really helped their defense and they relied a ton on the other team just missing shots and fast breaking into the offense... they werent bad by any means but no way Harden was gonna keep playing 2 ways... he has gone right back to his lazy all offensive attitude and when you are paying a dude that much its just sad.

Rivera
12-10-2018, 06:17 PM
I still think alot to do with it is mike D system the first year... Their offense last year really helped their defense and they relied a ton on the other team just missing shots and fast breaking into the offense... they werent bad by any means but no way Harden was gonna keep playing 2 ways... he has gone right back to his lazy all offensive attitude and when you are paying a dude that much its just sad.

Mike D had nothing to do with the defense. It was Bzdelik (sorry for misspelling). The system hasnt changed last year to this year. Its still cp3 and Harden work wonders and create your own shot and create a shot for everyone else. They just dont have the depth they had last season on top of CP3 being another year hurt and bouncing back from another injury. There starting 5is literally only 1 player missing, its the depth behind that where last year you had Ryno, Luc, NeNe, Gerald Green, Eric Gordon all producing off the bench, this year its only Gordon

lack of quality depth + the west getting better

Saddletramp
12-10-2018, 06:28 PM
I still think alot to do with it is mike D system the first year... Their offense last year really helped their defense and they relied a ton on the other team just missing shots and fast breaking into the offense... they werent bad by any means but no way Harden was gonna keep playing 2 ways... he has gone right back to his lazy all offensive attitude and when you are paying a dude that much its just sad.

There’s a lot of reasons they’ve fallen off. Can’t just point to Harden’s defense or D’Antoni’s system. Losing Moute and Ariza hurt but they’re exactly lighting it up this year; Bzdelik leaving and has only been back a few weeks to get the new guys better implemented; CP3 falling a bit after the new contract security; injuries to CP3, Harden, Nene, Gordon; the new rules; Gordon has mentioned that this year is miles apart from last year...favorite year playing to least favorite year and I’m not sure why, apart from the losing and trade banter. To just nitpick your preconceived notions is off base.


Maybe things get fixed, maybe they don’t. Even at their peak, they were still just a bit short.

tredigs
12-10-2018, 09:40 PM
Or they were never actually good to begin with... They caught lightning in a bottle much like most teams that first run with Mike D.... They were a fluke like I stated all along... Harden was never going to maintain being a 2 way player and cp3 is being asked to defend on a team that has 0 team defense.

LOL this is just dumb MTM. They were an incredibly good team and proved it all year. They would have taken down most champions of the past.

MygirlhatesCod
12-10-2018, 10:17 PM
LOL this is just dumb MTM. They were an incredibly good team and proved it all year. They would have taken down most champions of the past.

Could shoulda woulda.....harden is a flop donkey that is horrible to watch and cp3 is done. 40 mil for a guy that is a proven loser!

No worries rocket fans 2029 is right around the corner....hahaha

Chronz
12-11-2018, 06:32 AM
At least a part of CP3s fall defensively is that he'd been relying more and more on grabbing and this year with the refs calling it more this year his lost lateral explosion is really showing.

I think you are right though, almost to a man the team played great last year, this year they are all down at least a little and some a lot and that's all it takes to have it fall apart.

Lol heavens no. He's still getting away with what little that mattered. He's actually not as active on switches and has lost some explosion on both ends. He'll have 1 last playoff run tho, I hope.