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View Full Version : Where does the 2017 Draft Class rank?



More-Than-Most
11-20-2018, 04:02 AM
Right now... Of course guys could turn things around but in all honesty Ball/Tatum/Fultz have been actually horrible and the list could go on... Fultz has confidence issues and ball looks like his shot is killing him... Tatum is actually a big negative offensively per RPM... Ball/Fultz/Tatum have all been better per RPM ON defense by quite a bit then they are on offense... How did the rest of the draft fair and how does this draft compare with other drafts so far?

JAZZNC
11-20-2018, 09:21 AM
Dont know that there is a true superstar from that draft. The top 2 picks look really bad right now though. It's not going to be looked at horribly because I think that there are some really solid pieces from that draft, just not any real #1 type players.

warfelg
11-20-2018, 09:55 AM
Give it to the end of year 4. Always give it to the end of 4 years.

We said the same thing about the 2013 draft. The one with Victor Olandipo, CJ McCollum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Steven Adams. And solid players like Robert Covington, Dewayne Dedmon, Daniel Theis, Otto Porter, Nerlens Noel, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Trey Burke, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schroder, Tony Snell, Andre Roberson, Allen Crabbe, Mike Muscala.

But 2 years in this draft looked really ****** too.

IndyRealist
11-20-2018, 10:03 AM
Give it to the end of year 4. Always give it to the end of 4 years.

We said the same thing about the 2013 draft. The one with Victor Olandipo, CJ McCollum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Steven Adams. And solid players like Robert Covington, Dewayne Dedmon, Daniel Theis, Otto Porter, Nerlens Noel, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Trey Burke, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schroder, Tony Snell, Andre Roberson, Allen Crabbe, Mike Muscala.

But 2 years in this draft looked really ****** too.

This. There is a reason rookie contracts are 4 years. That's why it's funny when people think college kids are going to come in and dominate the league.

Hawkeye15
11-20-2018, 10:15 AM
Give it to the end of year 4. Always give it to the end of 4 years.

We said the same thing about the 2013 draft. The one with Victor Olandipo, CJ McCollum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Steven Adams. And solid players like Robert Covington, Dewayne Dedmon, Daniel Theis, Otto Porter, Nerlens Noel, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Trey Burke, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schroder, Tony Snell, Andre Roberson, Allen Crabbe, Mike Muscala.

But 2 years in this draft looked really ****** too.

bingo. We can't really evaluate a draft until a handful of years after it's over.

TheDish87
11-20-2018, 10:30 AM
its been ~100 games how can you judge it?

Wrigheyes4MVP
11-20-2018, 12:31 PM
Tatum has not been terrible. He just got off to a slow start. He's a really good two way player and will improve moving forward.

Lumping him in with Ball and Fultz is pretty ridiculous.

R. Johnson#3
11-20-2018, 01:09 PM
It's not even a year and a half after the draft? How can you judge this early?

ZH721
11-20-2018, 01:10 PM
Tatum hasnít been terrible. What the ****? Lol.

mightybosstone
11-20-2018, 02:19 PM
Give it to the end of year 4. Always give it to the end of 4 years.

We said the same thing about the 2013 draft. The one with Victor Olandipo, CJ McCollum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Rudy Gobert, Steven Adams. And solid players like Robert Covington, Dewayne Dedmon, Daniel Theis, Otto Porter, Nerlens Noel, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Trey Burke, Kelly Olynyk, Dennis Schroder, Tony Snell, Andre Roberson, Allen Crabbe, Mike Muscala.

But 2 years in this draft looked really ****** too.

I was literally about to say the same thing before I saw this post. That 2013 draft class looked like hot garbage 1-2 years in, but looking at it today, we've got arguably two of the five best players in the East (Giannis, Oladipo), a couple of other All-Star/borderline All-Star guys (McCollum, Gobert) and several above average starters (Adams, Covington, Porter, Schroder, Roberson).

I still think that 2017 class has crazy potential. Tatum and Mitchell have shown star potential, Fultz and Ball are still only 20 and 21, and we've seen some really good stuff from some guys further down the draft board, like Fox, Markkanen, DSJ, Bam, Allen, Kuzma, Hart and Bell. And there will inevitably be some other guys from that draft class who's been completely invisible who are still super young who end up becoming starters.

All in all, I think we'll end up getting at least 4-5 All-Star caliber players from this draft class and another 8-10 plus starters. It may not end up meeting its potential after all the hype around Ball and Fultz, but there's still a ton to like about this class.

mightybosstone
11-20-2018, 02:23 PM
Also, OP, calling Tatum "horrible" is one hell of a stretch at this point. The kid is only 20 years old, and he's averaging a pretty efficient 16/7/2/1 only a few months removed from averaging 19 points a game in his first postseason. If that's "horrible," I would LOVE to have more horrible guys like that on the Rockets on rookie contracts.

Silent
11-20-2018, 02:56 PM
Don't ever put Tatum with Fultz or Ball that's not right smh....

Lil Rhody
11-20-2018, 03:34 PM
It's just him justifying the trade in his head

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More-Than-Most
11-20-2018, 08:05 PM
It has 0 to do with the trade... Tatum is scoring for his team and doing it on a good PCT but the celtics are actually better offensively when he isnt on the floor... He is a negative offensive player in RPM. He is going to be a 20/10 guy and damn good but this season he has been **** on offense.


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/5

Overall he is barely a positive player so far... Fultz of course has been way worse as is ball but ball has actually been better offensively for his team.... Tatum came in NBA ready and was expected to excel where fultz/ball were not NBA ready... Tatum is not having a good year... Ball is having a bad year and fultz is having a horrid horrid year.

FlashBolt
11-20-2018, 08:14 PM
It has 0 to do with the trade... Tatum is scoring for his team and doing it on a good PCT but the celtics are actually better offensively when he isnt on the floor... He is a negative offensive player in RPM. He is going to be a 20/10 guy and damn good but this season he has been **** on offense.


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/5

Overall he is barely a positive player so far... Fultz of course has been way worse as is ball but ball has actually been better offensively for his team.... Tatum came in NBA ready and was expected to excel where fultz/ball were not NBA ready... Tatum is not having a good year... Ball is having a bad year and fultz is having a horrid horrid year.

One stat can't be used to define a player or how well they are playing. Tatum isn't having a good year based on what? I'd love to have a second year playing playing the way he is. He had a really good first year (especially in the playoffs) so it's unfair to now compare him and expect things to improve when the team naturally was stacked on the same position to where the scheme is much different. Fultz is the only one who is having a tremendously bad year. Ball is just up-and-down. We'd have to wait a bit longer but many of these players being drafted are put in a position to try and win instead of being developed. If you're on a bad team, you're going to put up better numbers and "develop" quicker than someone who is forced to try and win games. Boston is expected to reach the Finals. Philly was expected to be a contender in the East. Lakers are expected, because of Bron, of winning lots of games and maybe reaching the WCF. These guys simply aren't getting the time they need to develop at their own pace.

Wrigheyes4MVP
11-21-2018, 12:11 PM
If RPM is causing you to believe that Fultz or Ball are anywhere near as good as Tatum, then you probably need to stop looking at RPM.

mightybosstone
11-21-2018, 01:39 PM
It has 0 to do with the trade... Tatum is scoring for his team and doing it on a good PCT but the celtics are actually better offensively when he isnt on the floor... He is a negative offensive player in RPM. He is going to be a 20/10 guy and damn good but this season he has been **** on offense.


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/ORPM/position/5

Overall he is barely a positive player so far... Fultz of course has been way worse as is ball but ball has actually been better offensively for his team.... Tatum came in NBA ready and was expected to excel where fultz/ball were not NBA ready... Tatum is not having a good year... Ball is having a bad year and fultz is having a horrid horrid year.

Yeah, you know what they say: You should always judge players based on a super small sample size of a single statistic... Except nobody says that. Seriously man, you're basing your entire analysis of the guy's game on one number that suggests Tatum is the 32nd best offensive player at his position. That should be your first red flag suggesting to look at other numbers to make your case, not the final stat you look at and go "Clearly this guy is garbage!"

ZH721
11-21-2018, 02:09 PM
This is the same guy who said Robert Covington was a top 25 player last year, right?

Rivera
11-21-2018, 02:16 PM
the top 10 players in the NBA according to RPM because RPM is the tell all stat

LBJ
PG13
Kris Middleton
KD
Covington
Gallinari
Rudy Gay
Joe Ingles
Joe Harris
Tobias Harris

damn AD, Giannis, Kawhi are scrubs this year, they arent even top 10 in the league!

Rivera
11-21-2018, 02:17 PM
and as much as MtM likes to bash Tatum using RPM. Using the same stat, Jayson Tatum ranks 16th in RPM.

Hes that high because of DEFENSE. You know, defense is half the game? So they should bench Tatum because according to RPM hes terrible on offense. Who cares about defense?

Thats higher than Anthony Davis, Giannis, Steph Curry, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Jayson Tatum is clearly better than all those players because RPM said so.

ZH721
11-21-2018, 02:45 PM
and as much as MtM likes to bash Tatum using RPM. Using the same stat, Jayson Tatum ranks 16th in RPM.

Hes that high because of DEFENSE. You know, defense is half the game? So they should bench Tatum because according to RPM hes terrible on offense. Who cares about defense?

Thats higher than Anthony Davis, Giannis, Steph Curry, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Jayson Tatum is clearly better than all those players because RPM said so.

Lmaooo :burn:

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 08:04 PM
and as much as MtM likes to bash Tatum using RPM. Using the same stat, Jayson Tatum ranks 16th in RPM.

Hes that high because of DEFENSE. You know, defense is half the game? So they should bench Tatum because according to RPM hes terrible on offense. Who cares about defense?

Thats higher than Anthony Davis, Giannis, Steph Curry, James Harden, Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.

Jayson Tatum is clearly better than all those players because RPM said so.

Um wtf are you talking about... I feel bad even doing this to you... Tatum does not rank 16th in RPM

Tatum ranks 105th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3


We discussed this in another thread overall between a bunch of us and defense is about 30-40 percent because even if it is half the game offense is more important... The top 10 players according to RPM are

Gasol
Jokic
James
AD
Pg13
harden
curry
lowry
kyrie
middleton

Where are you even getting these numbers from? Right now tatum is way better than fultz and better than ball but tatum is not having a good season by any means currently BECAUSE OF HIS OFFENSE... Defense he is good.

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 08:06 PM
Lmaooo :burn:

lol all of his numbers and everything he said is wrong... so not only did he :burn: himself but you clearly do not understand and caught 2nd degree burns.

Rivera
11-21-2018, 08:08 PM
Um wtf are you talking about... I feel bad even doing this to you... Tatum does not rank 16th in RPM

Tatum ranks 105th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3


We discussed this in another thread overall between a bunch of us and defense is about 35-40 percent because even if it is half the game offense is more important... The top 10 players according to RPM are

Gasol
Jokic
James
AD
Pg13
harden
curry
lowry
kyrie
middleton

Where are you even getting these numbers from?

From the same link you posted I just filtered RPM lol

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

Edit I just noticed I had this filtered for SFs I didnít even realize it lmao I just used the same link and hit filter didnít even look at all players. I thought it was defaulted

Iíll take the L on that one.

See other posters. Itís okay to admit when your wrong and goofed up I thought I read something and I read it wrong. Iíll hold the L on this one

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 08:11 PM
From the same link you posted I just filtered RPM lol

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

Edit I just noticed I had this filtered for SFs I didnít even realize it lmao I just used the same link and hit filter didnít even look at all players. I thought it was defaulted

Iíll take the L on that one.

See other posters. Itís okay to admit when your wrong and goofed up I thought I read something and I read it wrong. Iíll hold the L on this one

oh lol... that is just for small forwards.

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 08:13 PM
From the same link you posted I just filtered RPM lol

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/5

Edit I just noticed I had this filtered for SFs I didnít even realize it lmao I just used the same link and hit filter didnít even look at all players. I thought it was defaulted

Iíll take the L on that one.

See other posters. Itís okay to admit when your wrong and goofed up I thought I read something and I read it wrong. Iíll hold the L on this one

lol i would never use 1 stat or 1 season to justify a stat by the way. I love RPM others dont its fine... Tatum is better than ball and way better than fultz but offensively he should be a ton better overall... defensively he is fine though... Its early so a guy like middleton of course isnt goinna stay in the top and so on... Cov though is : ) Right now he is top 26 per usual.

ZH721
11-21-2018, 08:27 PM
Um wtf are you talking about... I feel bad even doing this to you... Tatum does not rank 16th in RPM

Tatum ranks 105th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3


We discussed this in another thread overall between a bunch of us and defense is about 30-40 percent because even if it is half the game offense is more important... The top 10 players according to RPM are

Gasol
Jokic
James
AD
Pg13
harden
curry
lowry
kyrie
middleton

Where are you even getting these numbers from? Right now tatum is way better than fultz and better than ball but tatum is not having a good season by any means currently BECAUSE OF HIS OFFENSE... Defense he is good.

You are on record as not liking Kyrie and thinking heís bad for the Celtics... top 10 RPM!

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 08:34 PM
You are on record as not liking Kyrie and thinking heís bad for the Celtics... top 10 RPM!

the bias i have against kyrie is well known... My take on Kyrie/Harden should never ever be taken seriously and you may see him as top 10 in RPM but i do not lol.

Heediot
11-21-2018, 09:35 PM
I thought this year was better at the top and last year probably deeper. We will see how it all unfolds.

ZH721
11-21-2018, 09:47 PM
the bias i have against kyrie is well known... My take on Kyrie/Harden should never ever be taken seriously and you may see him as top 10 in RPM but i do not lol.

You need to have some consistency if youíre going to go all in on one stat. Either RPM is amazing and you use it for everyone (with context and many other stats), or stop pushing it lol. You know better.

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 10:39 PM
You need to have some consistency if youíre going to go all in on one stat. Either RPM is amazing and you use it for everyone (with context and many other stats), or stop pushing it lol. You know better.

But Kyrie and Hardens basketball is ugly... RPM is best stat but **** those dudes lol... I was actually surprised about kyrie... My main issue with him is he gets his but he needs to move the ball more because the celtics when they ball move they are amazing.

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 10:46 PM
down 5 to the cavs... they better ****ing win this by 20. Lonzo and bron only ones that showed up wtf. Ingram is killing me... really 4 shots?

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 10:46 PM
knicks gonna blow this : (

More-Than-Most
11-21-2018, 10:47 PM
whoops wrong thread xD

ewing
11-22-2018, 12:08 AM
knicks gonna blow this : (

It ok [emoji3]


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MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-22-2018, 09:02 AM
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