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View Full Version : Suns buyout Tyson Chandler. Lakers are Frontrunners



LaVar Ball
11-03-2018, 05:44 PM
Marc Stein

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@TheSteinLine
3m3 minutes ago
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The Lakers are expected to be at the front of the line to sign Tyson Chandler once he clears waivers, league sources say

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Marc Stein

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The Suns are in the process of buying out veteran center Tyson Chandler to make Chandler a free agent, league sources tell @NYTSports

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More-Than-Most
11-03-2018, 05:54 PM
this would legit be a huge signing for the lakers. They need him so very very badly.

HunterNRoss
11-03-2018, 05:55 PM
1058838146488557568

ewing
11-03-2018, 06:03 PM
I hate all the tanking teams buying out vets in season all the time. I think the league has to do something about it


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Swift Game
11-03-2018, 06:08 PM
Now we need to swap kcp and a 2nd for Ariza

warfelg
11-03-2018, 06:12 PM
That's a strange thing to hate.

YAALREADYKNO
11-03-2018, 06:52 PM
Solid pickup

bleedprple&gold
11-03-2018, 07:29 PM
I hate all the tanking teams buying out vets in season all the time. I think the league has to do something about it


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What are they going to do? Prevent buyouts?

ewing
11-03-2018, 08:10 PM
What are they going to do? Prevent buyouts?

Sounds good to me. Maybe if you get brought out in season you canít sign with another team that year


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Scoots
11-03-2018, 08:23 PM
That's a strange thing to hate.

I think it's that they can then go to a contender that bothers people.

FlashBolt
11-03-2018, 08:29 PM
can anyone attest to Chandler's defense? He's still capable of the lobs but with over 3 fouls per game with just 12 minutes per game, it leads me to believe he's no longer capable of playing solid defense. Maybe Suns sucked so bad that he had to play more defense than required but still seems like a foul machine. guess it can't hurt considering Lakers tried to play Kuzma at C and it failed.

Swift Game
11-03-2018, 08:51 PM
can anyone attest to Chandler's defense? He's still capable of the lobs but with over 3 fouls per game with just 12 minutes per game, it leads me to believe he's no longer capable of playing solid defense. Maybe Suns sucked so bad that he had to play more defense than required but still seems like a foul machine. guess it can't hurt considering Lakers tried to play Kuzma at C and it failed.If you watched any Lakers games consistently this season you can see when Javale sits we go from a defensive rating of 101 to like 118 when he sits.

We get killed on the offensive boards against certain teams. While I would like to say he can still play great defense I cant. But he will help us limit opponents to 1 shot which is key to our fast break.
Kuzma is not a good fit at the 5 whatsoever unless we play offense only.

We can now give Javale a solid break and not these little in between 3..4 minute breaks. He can also still grab offensive rebounds which will also help us.

I think Magic isn't done. We may look at Ariza or Korver next. I prefer Ariza, but kcp cant be traded until mid December.

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Scoots
11-03-2018, 08:52 PM
What are they going to do? Prevent buyouts?

They could require the player get more than the vet minimum to play for another team after the buyout ... that would eliminate all capped out teams.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-03-2018, 09:02 PM
Sounds good to me. Maybe if you get brought out in season you canít sign with another team that year


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Chandler probably requested the buyout and the Suns honoured it.

ewing
11-03-2018, 09:06 PM
Chandler probably requested the buyout and the Suns honoured it.

So?


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Raps08-09 Champ
11-03-2018, 09:31 PM
So?


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Well why are you hating on teams buying out players who requested it?

Saddletramp
11-03-2018, 09:54 PM
They could require the player get more than the vet minimum to play for another team after the buyout ... that would eliminate all capped out teams.

I like this.

SteBO
11-03-2018, 10:11 PM
Lakers needed a backup C...I think this will serve a solid early remedy to that. He can catch lobs rolling to the rim too.

ewing
11-03-2018, 10:13 PM
Well why are you hating on teams buying out players who requested it?

b/c he then goes and signs with a contender for the min. Scoots idea is a good one. If he signs somewhere it shouldn't be for the min. You wind up with all these capped teams contenders signing guys worth more then the min and bottom feeders paying guys to go away so they can get more ping pong balls. Its not exactly good for competition

Raps08-09 Champ
11-03-2018, 11:10 PM
b/c he then goes and signs with a contender for the min. Scoots idea is a good one. If he signs somewhere it shouldn't be for the min. You wind up with all these capped teams contenders signing guys worth more then the min and bottom feeders paying guys to go away so they can get more ping pong balls. Its not exactly good for competition

That's not something those previous team can control.

If a player who doesn't play much and doesn't want to be there says he wants to be bought out and is willing to take less money for it, why the hell wouldn't a team take that?

LaVar Ball
11-04-2018, 01:15 AM
Lol Lakers arenít even a contender yet. Itís a newly assembled team who is 4-5 thru the first 9 games. Chandler joining this team in November versus March. Heís joining the Lakers based on Ďpotential to be a contenderí.


This move is not the same as past years when vets would get waived in February and March and then sign with contenders last month of regular season heading into the playoffs.

IKnowHoops
11-04-2018, 02:13 AM
b/c he then goes and signs with a contender for the min. Scoots idea is a good one. If he signs somewhere it shouldn't be for the min. You wind up with all these capped teams contenders signing guys worth more then the min and bottom feeders paying guys to go away so they can get more ping pong balls. Its not exactly good for competition

Itís great for competition

IKnowHoops
11-04-2018, 02:13 AM
I hate all the tanking teams buying out vets in season all the time. I think the league has to do something about it


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Love it

FlashBolt
11-04-2018, 02:34 AM
If you watched any Lakers games consistently this season you can see when Javale sits we go from a defensive rating of 101 to like 118 when he sits.

We get killed on the offensive boards against certain teams. While I would like to say he can still play great defense I cant. But he will help us limit opponents to 1 shot which is key to our fast break.
Kuzma is not a good fit at the 5 whatsoever unless we play offense only.

We can now give Javale a solid break and not these little in between 3..4 minute breaks. He can also still grab offensive rebounds which will also help us.

I think Magic isn't done. We may look at Ariza or Korver next. I prefer Ariza, but kcp cant be traded until mid December.

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That's not my point. Chandler draws three fouls per game playing only twelve minutes. You only foul that often if you can't keep up with the opposing player. Either his defense isn't as good as people would say (let's be honest, no one is watching the Suns so any evaluation of Chandler thus far has been about reputation) or the Suns just sucked so much on defense that Chandler was left having to cover their mistakes. Either way, three fouls per 12 minutes is bad.

Swift Game
11-04-2018, 04:04 AM
That's not my point. Chandler draws three fouls per game playing only twelve minutes. You only foul that often if you can't keep up with the opposing player. Either his defense isn't as good as people would say (let's be honest, no one is watching the Suns so any evaluation of Chandler thus far has been about reputation) or the Suns just sucked so much on defense that Chandler was left having to cover their mistakes. Either way, three fouls per 12 minutes is bad.I wouldn't read to much into that. Most of the time you see guys get fouls like that when they are rookies or new to a team.

Chandler is a vet and doubt he would get an abundance of silly fouls. Phoenix is almost last in Defense..offense and turnovers. That should tell you something.

Like I said we dont need Chandler go come in and do a lot. We needed a big to rebound and avoid 2nd chance points. I think he can help given 12 to 15 minutes.

Better yet just watch. The Lakers draw a lot of attention lately and have a ton of national games.

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MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-04-2018, 08:23 AM
Well that's one less nice expiring contract other teams can trade for. Shocked Suns didn't hang onto him. Also Chandler does have a ton of miles on him. No way he can keep up with running with fast paced teams.

ewing
11-04-2018, 08:39 AM
That's not something those previous team can control.

If a player who doesn't play much and doesn't want to be there says he wants to be bought out and is willing to take less money for it, why the hell wouldn't a team take that?

I donít I hate all those teams. I said I hate when they do it an explained why.


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warfelg
11-04-2018, 09:04 AM
So the options here then are:
1) Force the player to stay in a situation he doesn't want to be in.
OR
2) Force a team to have to match contracts on a bad player to trade for him.

:shrug:

I don't see a problem with this. It's in the CBA and both sides like it. Players still get paid, owners get a chance to get rid of bad players at a lower rate.

If you want to change this system the better option is to limit the number of bought out players that a team can sign. Maybe 2 a season.

Scoots
11-04-2018, 09:24 AM
That's not something those previous team can control.

If a player who doesn't play much and doesn't want to be there says he wants to be bought out and is willing to take less money for it, why the hell wouldn't a team take that?

The issue is that teams often buy out players to facilitate losing, and some people think tanking is an issue. Likewise the vets with some value go to a contender for cheap and the strong get stronger. Then there is the possible handshake deals that give teams a way to work together to do a trade without trading a player for future considerations ... The Lakers may have not said anything to the Suns, but it wouldn't be the first time.

The league needs to fix it, not the teams or the players.

warfelg
11-04-2018, 09:31 AM
The issue is that teams often buy out players to facilitate losing, and some people think tanking is an issue. Likewise the vets with some value go to a contender for cheap and the strong get stronger. Then there is the possible handshake deals that give teams a way to work together to do a trade without trading a player for future considerations ... The Lakers may have not said anything to the Suns, but it wouldn't be the first time.

The league needs to fix it, not the teams or the players.

Make buyout players subject to waivers at the difference of Salary-Buyout amount.

Dude had a salary of $16 mil, was bought out for $12 mil? Now heís on the waivers for $4 mil.

Right now I think they either arenít subject to waiver or are at their full salary.

IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 09:59 AM
Theoretically a team under the cap can claim him off waivers, and he has to honor that contract or retire. The problem is the waiver system doesn't work like it's supposed to. Chauncey Billups showed how broken it was by threatening to retire if he was picked up by any team he didn't want to go to. That's what they have to fix.

warfelg
11-04-2018, 10:02 AM
Theoretically a team under the cap can claim him off waivers, and he has to honor that contract or retire. The problem is the waiver system doesn't work like it's supposed to. Chauncey Billups showed how broken it was by threatening to retire if he was picked up by any team he didn't want to go to. That's what they have to fix.

I think it's NFL or MLB but one of the two has a 'minimum time' if you officially retire before you can come back.

So to me this one is easy. If you file retirement papers, you cannot come back for 18 months, and the team that had your rights when you retired retains you when you come back.

hugepatsfan
11-04-2018, 11:10 AM
I like the buy outs. Letís be honest, weíre nkt talking all stars here. I want parity to a degree but playoff teams being able to make marginal improvements in the lower half of their rotation is worth it. Doesnít hurt big picture parity but can help make the playoffs a little more entertaining.

What annoys me is when someone who can help letís say a 4 seed signs with a 1 seed to be the 13th man and not play.

IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 11:34 AM
I think it's NFL or MLB but one of the two has a 'minimum time' if you officially retire before you can come back.

So to me this one is easy. If you file retirement papers, you cannot come back for 18 months, and the team that had your rights when you retired retains you when you come back.

I was leaning toward "if you are claimed off waivers and retire, you lose your buyout" but that works better. The NBAPA will probably never let you take away actual money

warfelg
11-04-2018, 11:37 AM
I was leaning toward "if you are claimed off waivers and retire, you lose your buyout" but that works better. The NBAPA will probably never let you take away actual money

Yea, let them keep the money. Just lose future potential earning from it.

Scoots
11-04-2018, 12:30 PM
Make buyout players subject to waivers at the difference of Salary-Buyout amount.

Dude had a salary of $16 mil, was bought out for $12 mil? Now heís on the waivers for $4 mil.

Right now I think they either arenít subject to waiver or are at their full salary.

I think it's at full salary.

If you just make mid-season buyout players minimum of $1 over their veteran minimum it will cost the player no money, but would eliminate teams massively over the cap adding another player who is perceived as expensive mid-season.

If we take it to the extreme, imagine you are a billionaire and own, through whatever machinations needed, two teams. Team A is the designated contender team and is always over the cap, Team B signs a prized free agent to a large contract, they cut them early in the season and that player immediately signs with Team A (as was understood to be the case BEFORE they were bought out), and now Team A has added a player they could never afford, and taken their talents away from all of the other teams that could have afforded their larger salary in the offseason.

Of all the exceptions the NBA has for the cap, this one seems like it's maybe the most broken.

That said, I'd be fine with a hard cap and no exceptions for any reason. That would certainly make things simpler and would prevent this from happening too.

Scoots
11-04-2018, 12:38 PM
I think it's NFL or MLB but one of the two has a 'minimum time' if you officially retire before you can come back.

So to me this one is easy. If you file retirement papers, you cannot come back for 18 months, and the team that had your rights when you retired retains you when you come back.

This.

Swift Game
11-04-2018, 01:42 PM
I think it's NFL or MLB but one of the two has a 'minimum time' if you officially retire before you can come back.

So to me this one is easy. If you file retirement papers, you cannot come back for 18 months, and the team that had your rights when you retired retains you when you come back.We missed a lot from a guy named Barry Sanders unfortunately. Would have loved to see more him even outside of Detroit.

Shame we didnt more of him in his prime...

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Raps08-09 Champ
11-04-2018, 01:48 PM
The issue is that teams often buy out players to facilitate losing, and some people think tanking is an issue. Likewise the vets with some value go to a contender for cheap and the strong get stronger. Then there is the possible handshake deals that give teams a way to work together to do a trade without trading a player for future considerations ... The Lakers may have not said anything to the Suns, but it wouldn't be the first time.

The league needs to fix it, not the teams or the players.

Majority of buyout candidates (mainly aging vets) don't affect the wins/loss column for losing teams. The impact if a guy like Chandler being bought out is minimal to the Suns.

It does have a massive impact to the contending teams that is going to get him but I fail to see why the tanking teams should be held responsible for that as Ewing wants them to be.

Redrum187
11-04-2018, 03:09 PM
I mean, if both parties were happy with it, I don't see why there needs to be further intervention from the NBA. This type of mentality reminds me of the typical American who thinks government is suppose to fix/solve problems when in reality they are the ones who create them.

IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 04:00 PM
I mean, if both parties were happy with it, I don't see why there needs to be further intervention from the NBA. This type of mentality reminds me of the typical American who thinks government is suppose to fix/solve problems when in reality they are the ones who create them.

Because there are more than two parties? There's Chandler, there's the Suns, there's the Lakers, there's every other NBA team, there's the fans. Reducing it down to a false dichotomy like "big government bad, small government good" is great for memes but bears little resemblance to reality.

warfelg
11-04-2018, 04:11 PM
Because there are more than two parties? There's Chandler, there's the Suns, there's the Lakers, there's every other NBA team, there's the fans. Reducing it down to a false dichotomy like "big government bad, small government good" is great for memes but bears little resemblance to reality.

I just don't like that it can be that locked in that he's not even bought out yet and it's basically a done deal.

Bostonjorge
11-04-2018, 04:17 PM
I saw this coming

ewing
11-04-2018, 04:46 PM
Majority of buyout candidates (mainly aging vets) don't affect the wins/loss column for losing teams. The impact if a guy like Chandler being bought out is minimal to the Suns.

It does have a massive impact to the contending teams that is going to get him but I fail to see why the tanking teams should be held responsible for that as Ewing wants them to be.

And severely punished donít forget how I said they should be severely punished


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FlashBolt
11-04-2018, 04:48 PM
Watched a few minutes of Tyson Chandler when he's on the court.. Dude can't play much defense anymore. He's got like cement feet or something.

warfelg
11-04-2018, 04:50 PM
Watched a few minutes of Tyson Chandler when he's on the court.. Dude can't play much defense anymore. He's got like cement feet or something.

He skipped leg day at the gym.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-04-2018, 04:53 PM
And severely punished donít forget how I said they should be severely punished


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I think you took the L on this.

Redrum187
11-04-2018, 04:59 PM
Because there are more than two parties? There's Chandler, there's the Suns, there's the Lakers, there's every other NBA team, there's the fans. Reducing it down to a false dichotomy like "big government bad, small government good" is great for memes but bears little resemblance to reality.

What does having two parties have to do with anything? Theoretically, do all other teams have an opportunity to acquire a bought out player? Yes. The goal should be to make everyone have an equal OPPORTUNITY, not to make every team EQUAL. Yes, this is a problem with modern society...

Not everyone is born with NBA level skillsets, so that "isn't fair". That's really silly... Equal opportunity, not "everyone is equal".

Do you remember when they were discussing if the NBA should reward bad free throw shooters by changing the rule? Had they went through, it would have been terrible for the game. Sometimes rule changes (or legislation in politics) actually is needed and beneficial, but usually when someone says "there should be a rule (law) that...", there really DOESN'T need to be.

ewing
11-04-2018, 05:24 PM
I think you took the L on this.

Or you just keep saying I said something I didnít.


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ewing
11-04-2018, 05:30 PM
What does having two parties have to do with anything? Theoretically, do all other teams have an opportunity to acquire a bought out player? Yes. The goal should be to make everyone have an equal OPPORTUNITY, not to make every team EQUAL. Yes, this is a problem with modern society...

Not everyone is born with NBA level skillsets, so that "isn't fair". That's really silly... Equal opportunity, not "everyone is equal".

Do you remember when they were discussing if the NBA should reward bad free throw shooters by changing the rule? Had they went through, it would have been terrible for the game. Sometimes rule changes (or legislation in politics) actually is needed and beneficial, but usually when someone says "there should be a rule (law) that...", there really DOESN'T need to be.

the NBA decides how teams sign players. Having a rule regarding brought out players would not be any different then having a salary cap or exceptions. Itís something they regulate. I think when a player accepts a min deal well below market value after being paid out for season by another team it is not good for the game and creates a situation that is not in line with why the nba allows capped teams to add players at the min.


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IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 05:33 PM
What does having two parties have to do with anything? Theoretically, do all other teams have an opportunity to acquire a bought out player? Yes. The goal should be to make everyone have an equal OPPORTUNITY, not to make every team EQUAL. Yes, this is a problem with modern society...

Not everyone is born with NBA level skillsets, so that "isn't fair". That's really silly... Equal opportunity, not "everyone is equal".

Do you remember when they were discussing if the NBA should reward bad free throw shooters by changing the rule? Had they went through, it would have been terrible for the game. Sometimes rule changes (or legislation in politics) actually is needed and beneficial, but usually when someone says "there should be a rule (law) that...", there really DOESN'T need to be.

You said "if both parties were happy with it, I don't see why there needs to be further intervention from the NBA." There are many more parties that are affected by this than just two. Your model of the situation is overly simplistic.

Bostonjorge
11-04-2018, 06:07 PM
Tyson plays great with a great passer. Paul and Kidd. Now he has Lebron.

Another tough player who will protect the rim for the lakers and move everyone to thier right positions. Chandlers rebounding is the biggest need for the lakers. James leads the team in rebounding with McGee right behind him. Chandler will fit in perfectly.

Scoots
11-04-2018, 06:20 PM
And severely punished donít forget how I said they should be severely punished

Yeah, that's completely irresponsible of you!

Redrum187
11-04-2018, 07:03 PM
You said "if both parties were happy with it, I don't see why there needs to be further intervention from the NBA." There are many more parties that are affected by this than just two. Your model of the situation is overly simplistic.

Okay... 29 other parties disliked Kevin Durant joining the GSW. Should the NBA have intervened and stopped him from joining? Should we remove the 2 ships and 2 FMVP from Durants resume?

I mean, personally I wouldn't cry if they did that... but putting my hate for Durant aside and putting on my objective hat, all 29 other teams had an EQUAL opportunity to sign Durant. Just because people ***** and moan about it (myself included), doesn't mean we have to start making rules so that the other teams are "equal".

So yes... no intervention needed when a player is bought out and agrees to sign with another team. The other teams had an opportunity but regardless of the reason, they weren't picked.

Lastly, yes... it really is very simple. It only becomes complicated when we act on our negative sentiments and make excuses for why we need rules we don't really need.

IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 07:06 PM
Okay... 29 other parties disagreed with Kevin Durant joining the GSW. Should the NBA have intervened and stopped him from joining? Should we remove the 2 ships and 2 FMVP from Durants resume?

I mean, personally I wouldn't cry if they did that... but putting my hate for Durant aside and putting on my objective hat, all 29 other teams had an EQUAL opportunity to sign Durant. Just because people ***** and moan about it (myself included), doesn't mean we have to start making rules so that the other teams are "equal".

So yes... no intervention needed when a player is bought out and agrees to sign with another team. The other teams had an opportunity but regardless of the reason, they weren't picked.

Lastly, yes... it really is very simple. It only becomes complicated when we act on our negative sentiments and make excuses for why we need rules we don't really need.
No, because the system is being subverted. Teams under the cap are supposed to be able to claim players on waivers, but they can't because the player threatens to retire. SO THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK AS INTENDED.

Redrum187
11-04-2018, 07:16 PM
No, because the system is being subverted. Teams under the cap are supposed to be able to claim players on waivers, but they can't because the player will just retire. SO THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK AS INTENDED.

To my knowledge, only one player has threatened it. If it's every single veteran who does this including Tyson Chandler, then I would concede maybe a minor tweak/amendment should be made. My information may also be wrong, but Sacramento is the only team with cap space to claim anyone off a waiver.

In this specific case with Tyson Chandler, I'd be interested to know if he threatened retirement if the Kings picked him up. I'd doubt it very seriously. Their number 2 overall draft pick is currently riding the bench as it is. With the current system, he becomes free game for everyone else.

IndyRealist
11-04-2018, 07:32 PM
To my knowledge, only one player has threatened it. If it's every single veteran who does this including Tyson Chandler, then I would concede maybe a minor tweak/amendment should be made. My information may also be wrong, but Sacramento is the only team with cap space to claim anyone off a waiver.

In this specific case with Tyson Chandler, I'd be interested to know if he threatened retirement if the Kings picked him up. I'd doubt it very seriously. Their number 2 overall draft pick is currently riding the bench as it is. With the current system, he becomes free game for everyone else.

No one claims any player of significance on waivers, exactly BECAUSE of what Chauncey did. It's not worth tying up their own assets, which is what it boils down to. The system does not work.

Scoots
11-04-2018, 08:32 PM
Just set the minimum contract for mid-season releases to be $1 over the off-season veteran minimum. Problem solved.

Saddletramp
11-04-2018, 10:59 PM
Just set the minimum contract for mid-season releases to be $1 over the off-season veteran minimum. Problem solved.

Or the vet minimum can only be used on players that havenít played this season.

Or, if youíre in the luxury tax (not just over the cap), then you canít claim a player thatís been bought out.

Or, you canít play a bought out player in the playoffs when depth isnít a huge deal.

Or, bought out players must be put on a waiver wire with the rest of the money they gave up as the pickup price.

Or, make bought out players ineligible for the playoffs earlier. Like before the trade deadline.

Saddletramp
11-04-2018, 11:01 PM
The Rockets still have one of their exceptions to use on a bought out player just to entice them over a different contender. I think they still have their tax payer mid level exception so $5.3 million might sway someone over the vet minimum of $1 millionish. Iíd still bet theyíd rather go with the Warriors and a free ring, though.


And does any team over the cap that much really need to get another exception? Itís a joke.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-04-2018, 11:22 PM
Or you just keep saying I said something I didnít.


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You might need to read what you posted again

Raps08-09 Champ
11-04-2018, 11:24 PM
Just set the minimum contract for mid-season releases to be $1 over the off-season veteran minimum. Problem solved.

Terrible suggestion. Theres only 1 team who has cap space to sign Chandler. The cut player is essentially out of a job if that case since the kings dont want chnadler.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-04-2018, 11:35 PM
I donít I hate all those teams. I said I hate when they do it an explained why.

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Youre hating a teamís decisions when they should in fact be making those decisions. There shouldnt be any complaints about what the suns did.

I feel like your hate is severely misplaced here.

ewing
11-04-2018, 11:54 PM
Youre hating a teamís decisions when they should in fact be making those decisions. There shouldnt be any complaints about what the suns did.

I feel like your hate is severely misplaced here.

Ok ok you are right. Sorry [emoji106]

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IndyRealist
11-05-2018, 09:12 AM
Terrible suggestion. Theres only 1 team who has cap space to sign Chandler. The cut player is essentially out of a job if that case since the kings dont want chnadler.

More teams might be under the cap if they thought they actually had a chance of picking up ok players off waivers.

warfelg
11-05-2018, 09:18 AM
More teams might be under the cap if they thought they actually had a chance of picking up ok players off waivers.

Ehhhh. I donít buy that. Itís rare to see a good team with space.

IndyRealist
11-05-2018, 09:37 AM
Ehhhh. I donít buy that. Itís rare to see a good team with space.

I didn't say good teams. Even just a few years ago it wasn't uncommon for 5-6 teams to start the season under the cap. Now there's no incentive to, since your chances of picking someone up on waivers is virtually nil, and teams aren't dumping contracts with picks nearly as much.

warfelg
11-05-2018, 09:51 AM
I didn't say good teams. Even just a few years ago it wasn't uncommon for 5-6 teams to start the season under the cap. Now there's no incentive to, since your chances of picking someone up on waivers is virtually nil, and teams aren't dumping contracts with picks nearly as much.

Contract dumping in season isnít as common. And bad teams arenít really looking for these guys either. The issue really that Iím getting at is the economics of the NBA is broken. And I know weíve been through this so much. But it makes more sense to be at or over the cap than it does to be under it.

buckalis
11-05-2018, 10:07 AM
Youre hating a teamís decisions when they should in fact be making those decisions. There shouldnt be any complaints about what the suns did.

I feel like your hate is severely misplaced here.

The Suns did the right thing and are big winners out of this... They were keeping Chandler under the hope to trade him for a PG + a pick while helping another team to get rid of a problematic contract they may had...

But... the Grizzlies waived young PG A. Harrison due to them having alternatives and the Suns wisely decided to empty a roster spot, save some money out of Chandler's remaining contract, so that they can add a PG they were so desperate looking for, while avoid "eating" a bad contract at the same time...

Now if old grandpa Chandler can be of use for the Lakers, that's for them to decide...

They have the money... Paying some charity to an old man, won't do them much harm, but it can be very useful for the grandpa's grandchildren...

Chronz
11-05-2018, 12:58 PM
No one claims any player of significance on waivers, exactly BECAUSE of what Chauncey did. It's not worth tying up their own assets, which is what it boils down to. The system does not work.

The system works fine, remove the waiver wire if that's all you want but in my experience this is good for the league.

cmellofan15
11-05-2018, 05:46 PM
Watched a few minutes of Tyson Chandler when he's on the court.. Dude can't play much defense anymore. He's got like cement feet or something.

He'll fit right in on this Lakers team.

Scoots
11-05-2018, 08:58 PM
Terrible suggestion. Theres only 1 team who has cap space to sign Chandler. The cut player is essentially out of a job if that case since the kings dont want chnadler.

He gets his money, I'm okay with that.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-05-2018, 10:16 PM
More teams might be under the cap if they thought they actually had a chance of picking up ok players off waivers.

BUt the ability to pick up players off waivers has always existed and no one ever took advantage of it. Not to mention its difficult to plan for teams to have cap space now, let aline plan it during reg season. You basically need to give tons of teams dueovers with amnesties to do that.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-05-2018, 10:17 PM
He gets his money, I'm okay with that.

NEver would even be considered by the NBPA

Scoots
11-05-2018, 10:33 PM
NEver would even be considered by the NBPA

Sure it would. The players getting their money is job one of the NBAPA.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-05-2018, 11:10 PM
Sure it would. The players getting their money is job one of the NBAPA.

Lol not even close.

The NBPA would never agree to the idea that the players couldn't sign with teams for the league minimum when they are nothing more than a FA.

beasted86
11-05-2018, 11:31 PM
What contracts are there in real life that once broken have stipulations on new contracts being signed? Not many if any.

I get this is sports, but the NBA already did enough with the "Ilgauskas Rule". A contract was fairly negotiated to be broken by both sides. It's done. Let the guy sign wherever he wants.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:39 AM
Lol not even close.

The NBPA would never agree to the idea that the players couldn't sign with teams for the league minimum when they are nothing more than a FA.

But signing for another team doesn't get them a penny more money. The NBAPA cares MOST about the money. If you believe the NBAPA would NEVER accept that players can't be signed by teams over the cap, then there is no chance the NBA could ever get rid of any exception, but they've done it in the past without the NBAPA saying anything about it. The NBAPA cares that their people get the maximum money possible and very little else.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:40 AM
What contracts are there in real life that once broken have stipulations on new contracts being signed? Not many if any.

I get this is sports, but the NBA already did enough with the "Ilgauskas Rule". A contract was fairly negotiated to be broken by both sides. It's done. Let the guy sign wherever he wants.

Many many many contracts have clauses that extend past the end of the contract. Non-disclosure clauses, and non-compete clauses are the first ones that come to mind. But regardless the NBA is not the real world, they have a CBA so regular rules do not apply.

zn23
11-06-2018, 12:43 AM
I've seen one game of his this year against the Nuggets, and he's pretty much cooked. It'll be like having another Javale McGee except he's not as athletic.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:48 AM
all this said, I don't really care one way or the other, I just think the complaint that teams can kind of skirt the cap limitations by using these kinds of moves can be stopped by making teams use cap space to sign the player. The Rockets could sign a couple players $1 over the vet minimum because they have their MLE available, but teams that have no cap space and no exception room available can't. The simple solution of $1 extra would just mean teams would be more likely to save a little exception room.

The one particularly nasty bit of this is the collusion aspect ... say the Warriors call the Suns last off-season and ask them to sign Ariza for $15M for the year, with a handshake deal with Ariza in advance that if he's cut mid-season they will sign him, and at some point in the future the Warriors will make it up to the Suns, like say the Warriors buy the Suns last 2nd round pick for $6M (or whatever the max is) for the next couple years and the Warriors "lose" on a few meaningless trades with the Suns over the years. Now Ariza got more money than he could likely get from anyone else AND the Warriors get a 3-D wing for cheap to bolster their roster.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:48 AM
I've seen one game of his this year against the Nuggets, and he's pretty much cooked. It'll be like having another Javale McGee except he's not as athletic.

Chandler's brain in McGee's body would be good.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-06-2018, 01:00 AM
But signing for another team doesn't get them a penny more money. The NBAPA cares MOST about the money. If you believe the NBAPA would NEVER accept that players can't be signed by teams over the cap, then there is no chance the NBA could ever get rid of any exception, but they've done it in the past without the NBAPA saying anything about it. The NBAPA cares that their people get the maximum money possible and very little else.

Youre going about this the wrong way.

Youre 100% right that NBPA cares about money. Too bad this isnt going to be somethinng owners are going to use as negotiating tactic.

If NPBA wants money, owners want to save money. Increasing a FAís salary doesnt benefit them any more than it may not benefit the player (as you claim). And the NBPA association isnt going to agree to the idea that a buyout candidate essentially cant play jn the NBA. Why would players agree to the idea of nt being able to play if they want to be bought out lol.

Not to mention it completely changes the dynamics if teams stop giving FA money in the summer just so they have capsapce for vets in the season.

There isnt really an issue here. Especially when teams play just as much games as players when it comes to buyouts.

Chronz
11-06-2018, 06:54 AM
Chandler's brain in McGee's body would be good.

Maybe peak mcgee

IndyRealist
11-06-2018, 09:46 AM
What contracts are there in real life that once broken have stipulations on new contracts being signed? Not many if any.

I get this is sports, but the NBA already did enough with the "Ilgauskas Rule". A contract was fairly negotiated to be broken by both sides. It's done. Let the guy sign wherever he wants.

You mean like restricted free agency? Or Bird rights? Or the traded player rule? This IS sports, and there are plenty of examples in the NBA where free agents are restricted in what they can do.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:50 PM
Youre going about this the wrong way.

Youre 100% right that NBPA cares about money. Too bad this isnt going to be somethinng owners are going to use as negotiating tactic.

If NPBA wants money, owners want to save money. Increasing a FAís salary doesnt benefit them any more than it may not benefit the player (as you claim). And the NBPA association isnt going to agree to the idea that a buyout candidate essentially cant play jn the NBA. Why would players agree to the idea of nt being able to play if they want to be bought out lol.

Not to mention it completely changes the dynamics if teams stop giving FA money in the summer just so they have capsapce for vets in the season.

There isnt really an issue here. Especially when teams play just as much games as players when it comes to buyouts.

Several teams have cap or exception space to sign players. The NBAPA has already accepted restrictions on players signing for teams in some conditions.

Scoots
11-06-2018, 12:51 PM
Maybe peak mcgee

Even in his current body would be better than Chandler now or McGee now.

Vinylman
11-06-2018, 12:57 PM
you guys blasting on McGee might want to go look at his numbers through 10 games...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html

Chronz
11-06-2018, 01:05 PM
you guys blasting on McGee might want to go look at his numbers through 10 games...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html

Dudes always been productive af

Vinylman
11-06-2018, 01:16 PM
Dudes always been productive af

yep... but he is doing it playing way more minutes this year which is astonishing

Scoots
11-06-2018, 03:32 PM
yep... but he is doing it playing way more minutes this year which is astonishing

I would be concerned that his body doesn't break down, and his defensive IQ has been exploitable in the playoffs. But certainly without him the Lakers would be far worse off.

FlashBolt
11-06-2018, 05:00 PM
yep... but he is doing it playing way more minutes this year which is astonishing

it's the perfect system for him, though. don't forget, Lakers are looking to get those lobs and fast paced easy baskets so a guy like McGee with long length and height benefits hugely. with that being said, he's been a complete stud. With what he's getting paid, he's earned a hefty bump next season.

More-Than-Most
11-06-2018, 08:46 PM
you guys blasting on McGee might want to go look at his numbers through 10 games...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html

he has been fantastic but team wide the lakers statistical output is way over inflated with their lack of defense... it seems like everyone on the team is having a career offensive year... its why I love RPM. You dont get credit for offensive inflation because of poor defense. Mcgee/ball and rondo are the only players playing 2 way basketball.. their defense is that good.

Raps08-09 Champ
11-06-2018, 11:09 PM
Several teams have cap or exception space to sign players. The NBAPA has already accepted restrictions on players signing for teams in some conditions.

I think only 1 team has cap space this year and most teams generally use their exceptions in the offseason.

NBPA would be accepting very restrictive terms to deny players signing for the minimum.

If they made rules that gives teams another exceptions (ie another exception that can only be used in the middle of the season every 3 years) as opposed to having to need to save their MLE or BAE in the regular season, it might help alleviate it. Would owners accept those type of terms if it costs them more money?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-07-2018, 08:24 AM
Chandler isn't the same guy that won a ring with the Mavs. Shadow of himself at this point in time.

FlashBolt
11-07-2018, 03:41 PM
Chandler isn't the same guy that won a ring with the Mavs. Shadow of himself at this point in time.

The way I see it is they played Williams and Kuzma at the center and that clearly wasn't working. It wouldn't get worse with Chandler. At least he's an actual 7 footer with size.

Scoots
11-11-2018, 12:02 PM
My outlandish hypothetical earlier turns out to supposedly apply in this case. LeBron supposedly called in a favor to get Chandler released so he could join the Lakers.

I think people would be a lot more upset if Draymond called Pat Riley and got Dragic released so he could play for the Warriors for the minimum.

ewing
11-11-2018, 02:06 PM
My outlandish hypothetical earlier turns out to supposedly apply in this case. LeBron supposedly called in a favor to get Chandler released so he could join the Lakers.

I think people would be a lot more upset if Draymond called Pat Riley and got Dragic released so he could play for the Warriors for the minimum.

Could of happened. I think it definitely did a couple years ago with Deron Williams


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Vinylman
11-11-2018, 02:08 PM
My outlandish hypothetical earlier turns out to supposedly apply in this case. LeBron supposedly called in a favor to get Chandler released so he could join the Lakers.

I think people would be a lot more upset if Draymond called Pat Riley and got Dragic released so he could play for the Warriors for the minimum.

yeah... because dragic and chandler are the same level of player... get real

Scoots
11-11-2018, 02:59 PM
yeah... because dragic and chandler are the same level of player... get real

It was a hypothetical.

The point was to illustrate that it is now a genuine tactic for a capped out team to add a vet from a rebooting team without paying their contract. I guess Ariza is next.

ewing
11-11-2018, 03:09 PM
It was a hypothetical.

The point was to illustrate that it is now a genuine tactic for a capped out team to add a vet from a rebooting team without paying their contract. I guess Ariza is next.

In another thread a Sixers fan just said that they would prefer to wait and see who gets brought out then address shooting needs via a trade.


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warfelg
11-11-2018, 03:15 PM
It was a hypothetical.

The point was to illustrate that it is now a genuine tactic for a capped out team to add a vet from a rebooting team without paying their contract. I guess Ariza is next.

I think Ariza is more likely to be traded than to be bought out. It's a 1 year deal.

Vinylman
11-11-2018, 06:02 PM
It was a hypothetical.

The point was to illustrate that it is now a genuine tactic for a capped out team to add a vet from a rebooting team without paying their contract. I guess Ariza is next.

This is nothing new Ö the only thing different is that guys are getting bought out earlier... it has been happening at the deadline for years. And again... who of Dragic's caliber has been bought out?

Scoots
11-11-2018, 07:17 PM
I think Ariza is more likely to be traded than to be bought out. It's a 1 year deal.

The Suns are bad enough if he's showing a bad attitude they could just decide to move on from him ... unless there is a conspiracy :)

Scoots
11-11-2018, 07:19 PM
This is nothing new Ö the only thing different is that guys are getting bought out earlier... it has been happening at the deadline for years. And again... who of Dragic's caliber has been bought out?

I'm not talking about players being bought out, but a possible conspiracy issue with the practice.

It was a hypothetical.

GREATNESS ONE
11-11-2018, 07:52 PM
Would love Ariza on the Lakers

IKnowHoops
11-11-2018, 09:16 PM
The issue is that teams often buy out players to facilitate losing, and some people think tanking is an issue. Likewise the vets with some value go to a contender for cheap and the strong get stronger. Then there is the possible handshake deals that give teams a way to work together to do a trade without trading a player for future considerations ... The Lakers may have not said anything to the Suns, but it wouldn't be the first time.

The league needs to fix it, not the teams or the players.

I think because itís Bron getting help...people have a problem...also u donít want anyone catching ur team

Scoots
11-12-2018, 01:27 AM
I think because itís Bron getting help...people have a problem...also u donít want anyone catching ur team

The problem people have with it has nothing to do with LeBron or the Warriors. It's that it's yet another tactic to skirt the cap.