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View Full Version : Who was the better passer...Ricky Rubio vs White Chochlate



IKnowHoops
10-20-2018, 08:41 PM
Who ya got?

Both are Wizards with the ball but who was a better passer?

GREATNESS ONE
10-20-2018, 08:49 PM
You’re right both amazing passers and very fun to watch but this....

https://youtu.be/S3X6Fn37Prg


White Chocolate was so dope. Rubio has the better stats and more stable career.

Bostonjorge
10-20-2018, 08:50 PM
Jason Williams.

Street ball run and gun with Webber is his Prime.

2006 got him a ring. He could knock down 3’s and played more off of Shaq passing out of the post.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-20-2018, 10:06 PM
Rubio's passes meant more IMO.

R. Johnson#3
10-20-2018, 10:13 PM
Rubio is a great passer but Jason Williams is on another level. He was tricky as hell but was able to just whip passes off the dribble while he was breaking guys down and was lethal on the run.

IKnowHoops
10-20-2018, 10:22 PM
You’re right both amazing passers and very fun to watch but this....

https://youtu.be/S3X6Fn37Prg


White Chocolate was so dope. Rubio has the better stats and more stable career.

I think this is my favorite pass of all time. What’s crazy is just how on point that pass was. Didn’t look like the dude was ready or expecting it but it just landed perfectly in his chest

Scoots
10-20-2018, 10:24 PM
Rubio is a better player, Williams the far superior passer.

zn23
10-20-2018, 10:27 PM
C'mon man... nothing can beat that elbow pass. That alone places JWill at the top.

ewing
10-21-2018, 07:44 AM
Jay Will

ewing
10-21-2018, 07:45 AM
Rubio's passes meant more IMO.

what does that mean?

NYKalltheway
10-21-2018, 08:07 AM
Jason Williams for sure. Rubio is nowhere near his class.

Heediot
10-21-2018, 10:48 AM
White chocolate the most SKILLED/Visual/Artistic passer in nba history probably, never seen enough of the geezers liker Magic in his Prime or Pistol Pete. Like others have said Rubio is the more effective/efficient passer.

Rubio, Kidd, Nash, the boys that were scrapping yesterday, Stockton are a few guys who I put up as elite effective passers.

ewing
10-21-2018, 10:59 AM
White chocolate the most SKILLED/Visual/Artistic passer in nba history probably, never seen enough of the geezers liker Magic in his Prime or Pistol Pete. Like others have said Rubio is the more effective/efficient passer.

Rubio, Kidd, Nash, the boys that were scrapping yesterday, Stockton are a few guys who I put up as elite effective passers.

What makes Rubio more effective/efficient?

Heediot
10-21-2018, 11:09 AM
What makes Rubio more effective/efficient?

Volume and efficiency. Assist to turnover ratio, and assists percentage. Jason Williams was pretty nice assists to turnover ratio for all those disgusting playground style passes though. I think if he was as limited as Rubio in scoring and just focused on passing on offense he had the potential to be more efficient and effective vs. Ricky. Both guys have/had elite court vision though.

ewing
10-21-2018, 12:51 PM
Volume and efficiency. Assist to turnover ratio, and assists percentage. Jason Williams was pretty nice assists to turnover ratio for all those disgusting playground style passes though. I think if he was as limited as Rubio in scoring and just focused on passing on offense he had the potential to be more efficient and effective vs. Ricky. Both guys have/had elite court vision though.

i don't take assist % seriously. If you can tell why I should care about it other then it supports my current take i'll listen. assist/to ratio does have some meaning. I look at it more in terms of can you to be the engine of an offensive as passer/distributor. I don't think Ricky has shown that he fills that role better then Jason did. J Kidd was the best since Magic. Put 4 guys that can score at all on the floor with him and you were going to score. Ricky is a much much better defender, that where his case lies IMO

Heediot
10-21-2018, 01:31 PM
i don't take assist % seriously. If you can tell why I should care about it other then it supports my current take i'll listen. assist/to ratio does have some meaning. I look at it more in terms of can you to be the engine of an offensive as passer/distributor. I don't think Ricky has shown that he fills that role better then Jason did. J Kidd was the best since Magic. Put 4 guys that can score at all on the floor with him and you were going to score. Ricky is a much much better defender, that where his case lies IMO

Minnesota's offensive rating was a lot better with Rubio on vs. off the floor, even with his poor offense. So he does make his mates better.

It's close and I can see the argument for Jason. At the end of the day and without advanced stats, I think both guys get mad respect for their creativity and play-making from coaches and the opposition.

ewing
10-21-2018, 02:37 PM
Minnesota's offensive rating was a lot better with Rubio on vs. off the floor, even with his poor offense. So he does make his mates better.

It's close and I can see the argument for Jason. At the end of the day and without advanced stats, I think both guys get mad respect for their creativity and play-making from coaches and the opposition.

They did have some decently performing offensive units. His teams where never very good and weren’t bad offensively. This is actually good for his case. On/off is another stat I think people use when it suits there purpose then admit is trash otherwise. I see Rubio as an excellent passer but I don’t think he ever had the scoring ability or ability to create pace to really maximize it. I like him in his current role better then as a true lead guard.


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Raps08-09 Champ
10-21-2018, 07:54 PM
what does that mean?

Things like elbow passes, spin passes, no look passes and nice and flashy but it doesn't make it more effective than a bounce pass to the open man.

It's like getting e-points for his elbow pass until you realize passing to to Dirk would have been a better decision that giving it to Raef.

ewing
10-21-2018, 10:43 PM
Things like elbow passes, spin passes, no look passes and nice and flashy but it doesn't make it more effective than a bounce pass to the open man.

It's like getting e-points for his elbow pass until you realize passing to to Dirk would have been a better decision that giving it to Raef.

There was a defender dropping into the passing lane bt him and Dirk which is probably way he improved that pass. Both guys used creativey to create passing lanes so they could get t
It to an open man more


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Raps08-09 Champ
10-22-2018, 01:20 AM
There was a defender dropping into the passing lane bt him and Dirk which is probably way he improved that pass. Both guys used creativey to create passing lanes so they could get t
It to an open man more


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Dirk had tons of daylight when they were passig just Between half court and 3 point line and would have been a better option with the ball that Lafrentz. The fact that Odom was getting into the lane between williams and dirk within the 3 point line would indicate dirk would have been able to get past odom (who would be late) had he got the ball earlier.

YAALREADYKNO
10-22-2018, 08:22 AM
White Chocolate

ewing
10-22-2018, 08:33 AM
Dirk had tons of daylight when they were passig just Between half court and 3 point line and would have been a better option with the ball that Lafrentz. The fact that Odom was getting into the lane between williams and dirk within the 3 point line would indicate dirk would have been able to get past odom (who would be late) had he got the ball earlier.

Dirk's not o the floor and i didn't see much room. He was running the break with a 2 non ball handling bigs. He got the ball to the middle to create lanes and pushed it too the basket forcing the defense to commit. When Odom did he pulled the old fake at the ball handler and drop into the passing lane to try and fool Jason into throwing a pass he could pick. J saw it and hit the trailer. Textbook homie

valade16
10-22-2018, 12:02 PM
i don't take assist % seriously. If you can tell why I should care about it other then it supports my current take i'll listen. assist/to ratio does have some meaning. I look at it more in terms of can you to be the engine of an offensive as passer/distributor. I don't think Ricky has shown that he fills that role better then Jason did. J Kidd was the best since Magic. Put 4 guys that can score at all on the floor with him and you were going to score. Ricky is a much much better defender, that where his case lies IMO

The Kings offense got better when Williams was traded for Bibby. The 3 years he was there they were 13th, 11th and 9th in Ortg, the years after he left they were 3rd, 6th and 2nd. Jason Williams was an incredibly flashy passer, probably has the best passing in that sense I've ever seen, but there's a reason the Kings did better when they traded for the far less flashy Bibby.

IKnowHoops
10-22-2018, 12:04 PM
The Kings offense got better when Williams was traded for Bibby. The 3 years he was there they were 13th, 11th and 9th in Ortg, the years after he left they were 3rd, 6th and 2nd. Jason Williams was an incredibly flashy passer, probably has the best passing in that sense I've ever seen, but there's a reason the Kings did better when they traded for the far less flashy Bibby.

To be fair Bibby is a hell of a lot better than Rubio so

valade16
10-22-2018, 12:15 PM
To be fair Bibby is a hell of a lot better than Rubio so

Bibby was incredible. I remember the WCF where he and C-Webb did the Pick and Roll and Bibby hit like a dozen shots in a row from midrange. I couldn't believe how automatic he was.

IKnowHoops
10-22-2018, 12:19 PM
Bibby was incredible. I remember the WCF where he and C-Webb did the Pick and Roll and Bibby hit like a dozen shots in a row from midrange. I couldn't believe how automatic he was.

Yeah he was unstoppable at one point. His J was stupid. I was shocked at how awesome he was too.

IKnowHoops
10-22-2018, 12:21 PM
Bibby was incredible. I remember the WCF where he and C-Webb did the Pick and Roll and Bibby hit like a dozen shots in a row from midrange. I couldn't believe how automatic he was.

No way anyone would trade Bibby for Rubio...but they did make the trade foe Whit Chochlate.

ewing
10-22-2018, 12:27 PM
The Kings offense got better when Williams was traded for Bibby. The 3 years he was there they were 13th, 11th and 9th in Ortg, the years after he left they were 3rd, 6th and 2nd. Jason Williams was an incredibly flashy passer, probably has the best passing in that sense I've ever seen, but there's a reason the Kings did better when they traded for the far less flashy Bibby.

that's true. That team had great passers all over the floor. they were better off with a better off with Bibby who much less ball dominate ball handler and a much better shooter. Bibby arrival also consided with Peja becoming a star which definitely helped.

ewing
10-22-2018, 12:27 PM
To be fair Bibby is a hell of a lot better than Rubio so

true that

Raps08-09 Champ
10-22-2018, 01:12 PM
Dirk's not o the floor and i didn't see much room. He was running the break with a 2 non ball handling bigs. He got the ball to the middle to create lanes and pushed it too the basket forcing the defense to commit. When Odom did he pulled the old fake at the ball handler and drop into the passing lane to try and fool Jason into throwing a pass he could pick. J saw it and hit the trailer. Textbook homie

Are we watchig the same play?

1. Dirk’s on the floor. Theres only 1 number 41 on the sophomore team and theres 3 white guys (all leading that break). He had plenty of space considering he was ahead of williams on the right side
2. Jason held the ball until he was at the ftline, which closes the open space other players have as odom is now closer to the basket and his momentum slows down (bad).
3. Odom moved out the way when jason faked the behind the back, opening the lane for the middle near the ft line (good). Problem is its Lafrentz (bad) trailing and theres a defender waiting at the rim (double bad)
4. It created contact (good) but dirk was open on the right side with opportunity for open shot , drive past odom or play give and go had he got the ball early enough but williams held the ball longer than he needed to (bad x3)

Hawkeye15
10-22-2018, 02:07 PM
Rubio. He is the best pure passer the game has seen since Magic.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2018, 02:08 PM
Minnesota's offensive rating was a lot better with Rubio on vs. off the floor, even with his poor offense. So he does make his mates better.

It's close and I can see the argument for Jason. At the end of the day and without advanced stats, I think both guys get mad respect for their creativity and play-making from coaches and the opposition.

wonder what Rubio's numbers, and even passing lanes, look like with Webber, Peja, Miller, Vlade, etc, versus the crap he played with. Adelman's offense, with capable cutters/shot makers? Rubio would have led the league in assists yearly, by a nice margin. Adelman tried to run his offense with the Wolves, and by that time he was checked out and had nearly 0 players to run his system correctly. K-Mart was the only one who got it.

Hawkeye15
10-22-2018, 02:10 PM
Things like elbow passes, spin passes, no look passes and nice and flashy but it doesn't make it more effective than a bounce pass to the open man.

It's like getting e-points for his elbow pass until you realize passing to to Dirk would have been a better decision that giving it to Raef.

White Chocolate was fancy, but nowhere near as technically sound as Rubio when it came to passing the ball.

I honestly am surprised this is even a question.

ewing
10-22-2018, 02:11 PM
Are we watchig the same play?

1. Dirk’s on the floor. Theres only 1 number 41 on the sophomore team and theres 3 white guys (all leading that break). He had plenty of space considering he was ahead of williams on the right side
2. Jason held the ball until he was at the ftline, which closes the open space other players have as odom is now closer to the basket and his momentum slows down (bad).
3. Odom moved out the way when jason faked the behind the back, opening the lane for the middle near the ft line (good). Problem is its Lafrentz (bad) trailing and theres a defender waiting at the rim (double bad)
4. It created contact (good) but dirk was open on the right side with opportunity for open shot , drive past odom or play give and go had he got the ball early enough but williams held the ball longer than he needed to (bad x3)

Its was an example of basketball at its purest level


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IKnowHoops
10-22-2018, 03:29 PM
Are we watchig the same play?

1. Dirk’s on the floor. Theres only 1 number 41 on the sophomore team and theres 3 white guys (all leading that break). He had plenty of space considering he was ahead of williams on the right side
2. Jason held the ball until he was at the ftline, which closes the open space other players have as odom is now closer to the basket and his momentum slows down (bad).
3. Odom moved out the way when jason faked the behind the back, opening the lane for the middle near the ft line (good). Problem is its Lafrentz (bad) trailing and theres a defender waiting at the rim (double bad)
4. It created contact (good) but dirk was open on the right side with opportunity for open shot , drive past odom or play give and go had he got the ball early enough but williams held the ball longer than he needed to (bad x3)

Jay mad an awesome play that would of been finished with a two handed yam by any real starting center. Great play and misdirection.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-22-2018, 07:52 PM
Jay mad an awesome play that would of been finished with a two handed yam by any real starting center. Great play and misdirection.

But he wasnt.

Being a good passer is understanding who to pass it to and when. Which is why I said you can be fancy but lack the effectiveness.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-22-2018, 07:53 PM
Its was an example of basketball at its purest level


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You probably need to refresh on basketball

Raps08-09 Champ
10-22-2018, 07:55 PM
White Chocolate was fancy, but nowhere near as technically sound as Rubio when it came to passing the ball.

I honestly am surprised this is even a question.

Thats because people are looking at who can get the ball from point A to B in the most difficult way lol. When passing is about creating easy opportunities for your teammates.

ewing
10-22-2018, 08:26 PM
Rubio. He is the best pure passer the game has seen since Magic.

Better then Magic


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Hawkeye15
10-22-2018, 11:25 PM
Better then Magic


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I think Rubio has the same vision Magic did but not the physical tools. You appreciate how easy he gives you 2-3 layups a game off a perfect pass that nobody else makes right now.

IKnowHoops
10-23-2018, 11:13 AM
But he wasnt.

Being a good passer is understanding who to pass it to and when. Which is why I said you can be fancy but lack the effectiveness.

It was a rookie game homie! Dirk was sh—- then too. Dirk was a garbage rookie.

ewing
10-23-2018, 11:23 AM
It was a rookie game homie! Dirk was sh—- then too. Dirk was a garbage rookie.

5 two handed chest passes without the ball touching ground or to the bench with ya

IKnowHoops
10-23-2018, 02:15 PM
5 two handed chest passes without the ball touching ground or to the bench with ya

His argument is trash. You give a 7 foot NBA center an open lane to the hoop 3 steps from the rim...

Anything negative about that pass is ignorant hate

IKnowHoops
10-23-2018, 02:20 PM
I think Jay Will can make any pass Rubio can. I don’t think it goes both ways. They both have the best vision money can buy.

Rubio can’t shoot at all and Jay had a solid shot, so I think Rubio passes more because he has less options otherwise.

valade16
10-23-2018, 02:36 PM
I think Jay Will can make any pass Rubio can. I don’t think it goes both ways. They both have the best vision money can buy.

Rubio can’t shoot at all and Jay had a solid shot, so I think Rubio passes more because he has less options otherwise.

I think Jay Will can make all the passes, though perhaps not as consistently. I always felt the problem with J-Will was he looked to make the flashy pass and it sometimes resulted in unnecessary turnovers or did not benefit the team.

He is the anti-John Stockton.

IKnowHoops
10-23-2018, 02:47 PM
I think Jay Will can make all the passes, though perhaps not as consistently. I always felt the problem with J-Will was he looked to make the flashy pass and it sometimes resulted in unnecessary turnovers or did not benefit the team.

He is the anti-John Stockton.

I’d agree, but when you’ve been given the nickname “White Chochlate” you do what you gotta do to keep that nickname.

IKnowHoops
10-23-2018, 02:49 PM
At the end of the day, who is gonna get more love from fans and fellow players for how he played the game?...Accept in MN it’s gonna be White Chochlate

Hawkeye15
10-23-2018, 02:56 PM
I really wish Rubio was on national tv more. People clearly underestimate his passing. The dude is the best passer I have ever personally watched. I was a child when Magic played, so it's all highlights and re-watches. But Magic is the only guy I have seen with Rubio's ability.

I mean, I was at a game, when Pek/Love were with the Wolves, in Houston, great seats. Pek gets an offensive rebound, tosses it back to Rubio, who starts to dribble out. Rubio looks up at the huge TV on the alternate side of the arena, sees Love cutting, and throws the ball behind his back, without ever looking at Love, result is an uncontested layup. Rubio used a tv monitor 1000 feet away to make a pass. Cmon

Those aren't even the impressive ones. His ability to lull a defense and just hit an open man on the roll or cut or around a screen is incredible, timing wise. He just gift wraps baskets for guys. Imagine if he was a scoring threat at all, how many more assists he would have?

Raps08-09 Champ
10-23-2018, 03:47 PM
It was a rookie game homie! Dirk was sh—- then too. Dirk was a garbage rookie.

Dirk average 18 and 7 that year

Raps08-09 Champ
10-23-2018, 05:44 PM
I think Jay Will can make all the passes, though perhaps not as consistently. I always felt the problem with J-Will was he looked to make the flashy pass and it sometimes resulted in unnecessary turnovers or did not benefit the team.

He is the anti-John Stockton.
Exactly. Like when he passed to lafrentz instead of dirk