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View Full Version : G-League opens “professional path” as a way around 1-and-done



warfelg
10-18-2018, 12:51 PM
1052952496115658753

GREATNESS ONE
10-18-2018, 12:56 PM
finally

warfelg
10-18-2018, 01:02 PM
Jbl doa

HunterNRoss
10-18-2018, 01:12 PM
It will be interesting to see how it does. The G-League is hard work, small gyms, long bus rides, often not top tier coaches, but you can earn 125k and allowing you to do endorsements. College can still have private planes, top coaches, top tier gyms, and if you count under the table money some could still make more in college.

Will be interesting on how this works out.

WaDe03
10-18-2018, 01:18 PM
I made **** money in the d-league the year I played, I’m jealous.

TheDish87
10-18-2018, 01:38 PM
just got done reading all of Wojs thoughts on this. Its a good idea and will benefit some players but like he says most are better off going to college as long as they are eligible. the facilities, treatment, spotlight, under the table cash, etc is worth much more. G League is a legit grind filled with a lot of hasbeens who wont care about your development while you come in at 18 making double what they do.

GREATNESS ONE
10-18-2018, 01:51 PM
I made **** money in the d-league the year I played, I’m jealous.

On NBA2k? Lmao jk

GREATNESS ONE
10-18-2018, 01:52 PM
Jbl doa

What? Did you mean the JBA? Because I agree with you, that’s toast with this new rule.

WaDe03
10-18-2018, 02:01 PM
On NBA2k? Lmao jk

Nba street vol.3

warfelg
10-18-2018, 02:07 PM
What? Did you mean the JBA? Because I agree with you, that’s toast with this new rule.

Yea whatever Lavars leagues name is.

GREATNESS ONE
10-18-2018, 02:12 PM
Yea whatever Lavars leagues name is.

Yea, you're right it's a wrap. Good move by the NBA.

dhopisthename
10-18-2018, 02:23 PM
It will be interesting to see how it does. The G-League is hard work, small gyms, long bus rides, often not top tier coaches, but you can earn 125k and allowing you to do endorsements. College can still have private planes, top coaches, top tier gyms, and if you count under the table money some could still make more in college.

Will be interesting on how this works out.

yeah that is what I have no clue on. how much are these guys really making at college excluding the worthless college education that these guys get. I do wonder how much playing time they would even get though on these teams.

Scoots
10-18-2018, 02:29 PM
Yea whatever Lavars leagues name is.

It doesn't matter, it was going to die regardless :)

Scoots
10-18-2018, 02:36 PM
I will be interested in the specifics because I see a LOT of conflict of interest issues here.

A kid comes in, ends up on a g-league team, the owning team realizes he's got great potential, they decide to hamper his development and limit his exposure to other teams, then sign him to a sweetheart deal for the NBA team the next year.

They are going to have to come up with some interesting system to make it work even close to as good as the college system.

Hawkeye15
10-18-2018, 02:36 PM
is $125k more than Calipari already pays them?

Heediot
10-18-2018, 02:43 PM
It will be interesting to see how it does. The G-League is hard work, small gyms, long bus rides, often not top tier coaches, but you can earn 125k and allowing you to do endorsements. College can still have private planes, top coaches, top tier gyms, and if you count under the table money some could still make more in college.

Will be interesting on how this works out.

One step at a time possibly.

If the g league grows in popularity and revenue, other facets like transportation and facility might change.

Heediot
10-18-2018, 02:50 PM
I wonder how the system will work in regards to signing these touted prospects?

Is it a free market?

How many prospects can you sign?

Lets say Raptors 905 signs a kid, do the Raptors hold he rights, or does he get re-drafted? Is there a d-league draft and then a nba draft?

IndyRealist
10-18-2018, 03:01 PM
I wonder how the system will work in regards to signing these touted prospects?

Is it a free market?

How many prospects can you sign?

Lets say Raptors 905 signs a kid, do the Raptors hold he rights, or does he get re-drafted? Is there a d-league draft and then a nba draft?

Likely he goes to the g league for one year, then enters the draft the next year, same as someone playing overseas. The raptors will have no rights to him.

IndyRealist
10-18-2018, 03:03 PM
I generally don't say I told you so, but you know who you are.

HunterNRoss
10-18-2018, 03:41 PM
yeah that is what I have no clue on. how much are these guys really making at college excluding the worthless college education that these guys get. I do wonder how much playing time they would even get though on these teams.

Well the one thing though that is nice is the 125K although taxable would be able to be used without worry of fraud. Getting paid 125K under the table without paying taxes on it is tax fraud and limits their purchases to small things paid with cash really. Through the NBA they would have full control over their money.

Playing time is another story. Just because you are a top prospect wouldnt guarantee you playing time when all players are potential NBA caliber players. They would have to work something out to make sure these guys get to show off in my opinion.


One step at a time possibly.

If the g league grows in popularity and revenue, other facets like transportation and facility might change.

Yes one step at a time is important. As more top prospects join the league it will bring more money and the need for better facilities and transportation as you mentioned.

TheDish87
10-18-2018, 03:58 PM
i doubt anyone of significance goes this route short of becoming ineligible but even then why not just go overseas and make 10x more? There is too much risk of being exposed, can you imagine if someone like Wiggins went right to the G league? no shot he would go top 5 and maybe not even lotto.

Heediot
10-18-2018, 04:24 PM
i doubt anyone of significance goes this route short of becoming ineligible but even then why not just go overseas and make 10x more? There is too much risk of being exposed, can you imagine if someone like Wiggins went right to the G league? no shot he would go top 5 and maybe not even lotto.

I think Wiggins would of still been top 5. College at Kansas exposed him ore vs. nba and g league rules. Dude had a hard time breaking down zone defenses with a big always camping in the paint. Euroleague defense isn't the easiest to beat as the rules are similar to college with even more liberties with hand checking. It's a very team oriented game in Europe and College (for the most part) too. I think nba defenses will make wings and ball handlers look better in the g-league. China would make prospects look nice, just like Mudiay. I think China is a solid route making 3-4 times more then the 125k g league, not as confident for some prospects for Euro and College though.

TheDish87
10-18-2018, 04:28 PM
Physically and mentally i think Wiggins would have been abused. He came with so much hype he prob still could have done enough to go top 10 but being 17-19 y/o and going right to the G league vs guys who are fighting for their careers doesnt sound like best route. If youre that high level prospect go get treated like a god on a big campus and play on TV 25 times, big tourney games, travel country and world, etc.

IndyRealist
10-18-2018, 05:26 PM
i doubt anyone of significance goes this route short of becoming ineligible but even then why not just go overseas and make 10x more? There is too much risk of being exposed, can you imagine if someone like Wiggins went right to the G league? no shot he would go top 5 and maybe not even lotto.

The big barrier to going overseas is going overseas. You're an 18yr old who's probably never been out of the country before, don't speak anything but English and maybe a bit of Spanish, and never held a job because you're always on the AAU circuit. If you go overseas, you are away from all your friends and family, the coaches don't care to develop you because you're a publicity stunt, and NBA scouts might catch ONE of your games all year.

In the g league you are guaranteed money, having NBA personnel direct your development, having NBA scouts look at you ALL the time, while you basically get to live at home. And unlike college, you can sign endorsement deals.

Scoots
10-18-2018, 05:37 PM
is $125k more than Calipari already pays them?

It's not just what he's paying them, he's also telling them he can guarantee they will be a top 10 pick.

IndyRealist
10-18-2018, 05:41 PM
It's not just what he's paying them, he's also telling them he can guarantee they will be a top 10 pick.

I doubt it'll be blue chip, 5 star guys bypassing college, but rather guys who need training to get drafted. Blue chip players get all the personalized training they want in college.

WaDe03
10-18-2018, 05:47 PM
I generally don't say I told you so, but you know who you are.

Call them out and bury them brother don’t be scared! I’m going to be doing it a lot this season.

Bostonjorge
10-18-2018, 06:01 PM
So “top tier” kids can talk to NIKE about singing a multi million dollar contract and be in commercials all before they play in the NBA. Be in video games and make $ off of YouTube. Moms can sell shirts and many other items to make $ off thier son likeness. Top prospects going to make more then $125K and it will all be legal and not seen as shameful.

Some of these kids go viral and now they can profit when they’re stock is sky high. Just like college profit when their players stock is sky high.

Heediot
10-18-2018, 06:21 PM
I doubt it'll be blue chip, 5 star guys bypassing college, but rather guys who need training to get drafted. Blue chip players get all the personalized training they want in college.

I think the ones that really need the money will go to the g league.

IndyRealist
10-18-2018, 06:58 PM
I think the ones that really need the money will go to the g league.

That's a definite possibility, but I think the average "bypass one and done" kid will be the fringe NBA level guys for at least half a decade.

More-Than-Most
10-18-2018, 08:02 PM
1052952496115658753

i am on the fence... 125k is nice but these dudes are young... i feel like the mid tier players will lose out on a scholarship and rush for the money and regret it later on.

Scoots
10-18-2018, 10:15 PM
One step at a time possibly.

If the g league grows in popularity and revenue, other facets like transportation and facility might change.

Yeah, because the minor leagues in baseball are renowned for their luxury :)

Scoots
10-18-2018, 10:16 PM
Likely he goes to the g league for one year, then enters the draft the next year, same as someone playing overseas. The raptors will have no rights to him.

And thus the conflict of interest issues.

Scoots
10-18-2018, 10:19 PM
I doubt it'll be blue chip, 5 star guys bypassing college, but rather guys who need training to get drafted. Blue chip players get all the personalized training they want in college.

It was a joke.

Heediot
10-19-2018, 10:20 AM
Yeah, because the minor leagues in baseball are renowned for their luxury :)

You never know scoots.

Baseball and Hockey have minor leagues, but they also have College games. Ratings not too strong for those sports on the collegiate level. College Basketball OTOH gets really profitable ratings. Even the Basketball Tournament in the off-season garners more ratings then college baseball and hockey. It might not be so unrealistic for G-League basketball to get something going. With the proper marketing and stuff it might be feasible.

WaDe03
10-19-2018, 10:41 AM
Best thing about this is WNBA players wanting to play in the g league because this is around their max salary. They would get destroyed.

warfelg
10-19-2018, 10:46 AM
I really like this but I would tweak some things:
-I would require GL teams to be much closer to the NBA team.
-Try to “overlap” schedules when you can. Oh the Sixers are going to Cali for a week? Well the Blue Coats will as well; and the NBA souls require them to share a plane.
-I would have rather seen a lower salary and housing included.

Scoots
10-20-2018, 09:59 AM
I really like this but I would tweak some things:
-I would require GL teams to be much closer to the NBA team.
-Try to “overlap” schedules when you can. Oh the Sixers are going to Cali for a week? Well the Blue Coats will as well; and the NBA souls require them to share a plane.
-I would have rather seen a lower salary and housing included.

IIRC there are still 3 teams holding out on even having G-league teams.

I understand the appeal of having the teams close (and I think most are within an hour), but the g-league also gives a chance for teams to expand their fan base by being further from the big team.

TrueFan420
10-20-2018, 01:21 PM
i am on the fence... 125k is nice but these dudes are young... i feel like the mid tier players will lose out on a scholarship and rush for the money and regret it later on.

I doubt those mid tier guys get those offers from the g league teams tho

warfelg
10-20-2018, 01:37 PM
IIRC there are still 3 teams holding out on even having G-league teams.

There are.


I understand the appeal of having the teams close (and I think most are within an hour), but the g-league also gives a chance for teams to expand their fan base by being further from the big team.

How is the Atlanta Hawks GLeague team being in Erie PA helping them expand? I can understand something like Charleston SC. Or what about Miami's team being in Sioux Falls SD? Tampa Florida would make amazing sense. Like the distances I'm suggesting aren't bad. A few hours tops. Not halfway across the country.

Looking at the map, teams without one that would make a ton of sense:
NO Pelicans - Baton Rouge Fighting Frenchmen?
Portland Blazers - Uhhh, this is easy - Seattle Sonics (Hey how about Sub-Sonics? Get it?)
Denver Nuggets - Colorado Springs Pikes (after Pikes Peak)

Scoots
10-20-2018, 04:43 PM
You never know scoots.

Baseball and Hockey have minor leagues, but they also have College games. Ratings not too strong for those sports on the collegiate level. College Basketball OTOH gets really profitable ratings. Even the Basketball Tournament in the off-season garners more ratings then college baseball and hockey. It might not be so unrealistic for G-League basketball to get something going. With the proper marketing and stuff it might be feasible.

Sure I think it's reasonable that it will get better, but I doubt it ever comes close to making enough money to compete with the top college programs.

Scoots
10-20-2018, 04:45 PM
There are.



How is the Atlanta Hawks GLeague team being in Erie PA helping them expand? I can understand something like Charleston SC. Or what about Miami's team being in Sioux Falls SD? Tampa Florida would make amazing sense. Like the distances I'm suggesting aren't bad. A few hours tops. Not halfway across the country.

Looking at the map, teams without one that would make a ton of sense:
NO Pelicans - Baton Rouge Fighting Frenchmen?
Portland Blazers - Uhhh, this is easy - Seattle Sonics (Hey how about Sub-Sonics? Get it?)
Denver Nuggets - Colorado Springs Pikes (after Pikes Peak)

Yeah, that's silly. I didn't know the Hawks team was in PA.

Scoots
10-20-2018, 04:51 PM
NBA has supposedly set two conditions on reducing the age limit for the draft:

1. Full medical information must be available to all teams to be eligible for draft.

2. Player must participate in combine to be eligible for draft.

Vinylman
10-20-2018, 06:06 PM
another token move by the league to dupe the ignorant fanboys into thinking something actually changed.

good to see the sheep in here lapped it up

warfelg
10-20-2018, 06:46 PM
NBA has supposedly set two conditions on reducing the age limit for the draft:

1. Full medical information must be available to all teams to be eligible for draft.

2. Player must participate in combine to be eligible for draft.

Very interesting.

warfelg
10-20-2018, 06:47 PM
another token move by the league to dupe the ignorant fanboys into thinking something actually changed.

good to see the sheep in here lapped it up

Great insight. Care to share how this is a token move and how people think something has actually changed? I think for the most part people are laughing at the fact that most top players were getting $125K under the table along with better living, travel, and training in college. What this will change are the non-top players that would end up at a second rate school with no under the table money.

Scoots
10-20-2018, 07:56 PM
Great insight. Care to share how this is a token move and how people think something has actually changed? I think for the most part people are laughing at the fact that most top players were getting $125K under the table along with better living, travel, and training in college. What this will change are the non-top players that would end up at a second rate school with no under the table money.

Analysts I like have said things similar to what I was saying when this was first talked about months ago. It was going to be very hard to make this be a viable alternative. For this money it doesn't make much sense. Top one and done prospects will probably do better just not playing for a year than going to the g-league and playing short minutes against 25 year old pros. With the team's having a disincentive to develop the players for other teams I doubt agents will suggest playing in the g-league as a money making prospect.

GREATNESS ONE
10-20-2018, 08:43 PM
another token move by the league to dupe the ignorant fanboys into thinking something actually changed.

good to see the sheep in here lapped it up

Lol you’re awesome

Vinylman
10-21-2018, 09:47 AM
Great insight. Care to share how this is a token move and how people think something has actually changed? I think for the most part people are laughing at the fact that most top players were getting $125K under the table along with better living, travel, and training in college. What this will change are the non-top players that would end up at a second rate school with no under the table money.

my comments were directed at specific posters... they know who they are...

anyway … this is a joke since the whole point of eliminating the one and done is to help the top players not the riff raff.

on a side note... if you don't think anyone who is a NBA talent isn't getting paid under the table in college no matter where they go you are naïve.

Vinylman
10-21-2018, 09:48 AM
Analysts I like have said things similar to what I was saying when this was first talked about months ago. It was going to be very hard to make this be a viable alternative. For this money it doesn't make much sense. Top one and done prospects will probably do better just not playing for a year than going to the g-league and playing short minutes against 25 year old pros. With the team's having a disincentive to develop the players for other teams I doubt agents will suggest playing in the g-league as a money making prospect.

and we have a winner

Scoots
10-21-2018, 09:52 AM
my comments were directed at specific posters... they know who they are...

anyway … this is a joke since the whole point of eliminating the one and done is to help the top players not the riff raff.

on a side note... if you don't think anyone who is a NBA talent isn't getting paid under the table in college no matter where they go you are naïve.

I'm certain some NBA talents are not paid in college under the table.

warfelg
10-21-2018, 10:03 AM
I'm certain some NBA talents are not paid in college under the table.

Yea. And there’s guys who molded themselves into one that likely weren’t paid. I do think the “under the table” stuff isn’t as wide spread to that high of payments as some think.

Like I would guess some kid picking between VCU and this new route would be giving up $115,000 in under the table money.

Scoots
10-21-2018, 10:24 AM
Yea. And there’s guys who molded themselves into one that likely weren’t paid. I do think the “under the table” stuff isn’t as wide spread to that high of payments as some think.

I think it was the NY Times that ripped Coach K apart for saying something like that.

I'm certain there are some players who go from college to the NBA without getting paid significant money under the table, Sons of NBA players, like for example Steph Curry at Davidson ... I'm sure Davidson set aside hundreds of thousands to secure him. I hope the number of players getting large money is small, I also assume a lot of the players get a little something here or there ... "you can have the sandwich without paying" and that sort of thing.

xxplayerxx23
10-21-2018, 12:24 PM
i doubt anyone of significance goes this route short of becoming ineligible but even then why not just go overseas and make 10x more? There is too much risk of being exposed, can you imagine if someone like Wiggins went right to the G league? no shot he would go top 5 and maybe not even lotto.

You think Wiggins wouldn’t of domanited the dleague? Lol come on

Vinylman
10-22-2018, 10:24 AM
I'm certain some NBA talents are not paid in college under the table.

lololololol

yes... lets base it on AFTER they leave college not GOING INTO college

There isn't a Rivals 100 guy going into college who isn't getting paid... Period end of discussion.

you guys sure love some conflation.


Do you think a guy outside the Rivals 100 is gonna get a D league contract?


LMFAO

TheDish87
10-22-2018, 10:57 AM
You think Wiggins wouldn’t of domanited the dleague? Lol come on

no, no i dont. he didnt even dominate college.

IndyRealist
10-22-2018, 11:09 AM
https://www-m.cnn.com/2014/04/07/us/ncaa-basketball-finals-shabazz-napier-hungry/index.html

Heediot
10-22-2018, 11:48 AM
lololololol

yes... lets base it on AFTER they leave college not GOING INTO college

There isn't a Rivals 100 guy going into college who isn't getting paid... Period end of discussion.

you guys sure love some conflation.


Do you think a guy outside the Rivals 100 is gonna get a D league contract?


LMFAO

Interesting, any hard evidence or some type of links with interesting circumstantial evidence? I'm not ruling any possibilities, but instinctively I do believe there are top recruits getting money and there are some that aren't. Not every prospect is corrupt and or poor.

Heediot
10-22-2018, 11:50 AM
no, no i dont. he didnt even dominate college.

I think he would of looked nicer in the g league vs. college even against some older guys. With his handles being his weakness, I think the rules of the nba favour him. Lanes are less clogged and the game is more free flowing and fast paced.

TheDish87
10-22-2018, 12:06 PM
i agree with that part but i said last time i jsut dnot think he would have been able to handle mentally or physically. He doesnt come off as someone who really likes to be challenged.

Scoots
10-22-2018, 12:45 PM
lololololol

yes... lets base it on AFTER they leave college not GOING INTO college

There isn't a Rivals 100 guy going into college who isn't getting paid... Period end of discussion.

you guys sure love some conflation.


Do you think a guy outside the Rivals 100 is gonna get a D league contract?


LMFAO

I am fairly sure a number of Rivals 100 players go to college without getting significant money.

I have no idea who is going to get offered the new g-league contract. It seems like a PR stunt more than an effort to fix a broken system.

Scoots
10-22-2018, 12:51 PM
https://www-m.cnn.com/2014/04/07/us/ncaa-basketball-finals-shabazz-napier-hungry/index.html

I think the NCAA can reasonably significantly increase the money they give to student athletes that would make a significant difference in their lives without paying them much. Just a little more would make a big difference. Also they should be allowed to get a job, but that would have to be carefully managed to keep the NCAA rules enforced.

TheDish87
10-22-2018, 02:21 PM
i never understood how they cant work on the D1 level. Workstudy should be offered too. Im not in favor of paying players bcuz its just too complicated but the NCAA has tons and tons of issues they could resolve to make the life of a student athlete much easier. I remember a few years back there was a female tennis player who washed her car on campus and she was required to reimburse the school for the water used, i **** you not. they never named the school though just that it was out west.

warfelg
10-22-2018, 02:51 PM
I think the NCAA can reasonably significantly increase the money they give to student athletes that would make a significant difference in their lives without paying them much. Just a little more would make a big difference. Also they should be allowed to get a job, but that would have to be carefully managed to keep the NCAA rules enforced.

Cap on pay, cap on hours. $12/hour cap; 20 hours a week. If you need more than $240/week in college for food outside of your meal plan, you got issues. You can get housing on campus with your scholarship or get Room&Board covered in a loan.

warfelg
10-22-2018, 02:53 PM
i never understood how they cant work on the D1 level. Workstudy should be offered too. Im not in favor of paying players bcuz its just too complicated but the NCAA has tons and tons of issues they could resolve to make the life of a student athlete much easier. I remember a few years back there was a female tennis player who washed her car on campus and she was required to reimburse the school for the water used, i **** you not. they never named the school though just that it was out west.

I remember taking a recruitment tour. Apple Juice and Bagel were covered. I also wanted milk and cream cheese and **** you not, had to pay the $1.75 for the milk and cream cheese.

Scoots
10-22-2018, 03:02 PM
Cap on pay, cap on hours. $12/hour cap; 20 hours a week. If you need more than $240/week in college for food outside of your meal plan, you got issues. You can get housing on campus with your scholarship or get Room&Board covered in a loan.

Actually, I'd be fine just having the NCAA pay that to the players. $1k a month, then not have to deal with administering the job stuff.

Vinylman
10-23-2018, 09:52 AM
I am fairly sure a number of Rivals 100 players go to college without getting significant money.

I have no idea who is going to get offered the new g-league contract. It seems like a PR stunt more than an effort to fix a broken system.

nope... there isn't a guy in the rivals 100 that isn't offered money to play at a school. do the math. If you just take the the top 25 teams in the country each is signing 4 freshman at least...

this isn't rocket science.

You guys always want to point out the exceptions like a curry... believe me... it goes beyond top 100.

Vinylman
10-23-2018, 09:55 AM
I think the NCAA can reasonably significantly increase the money they give to student athletes that would make a significant difference in their lives without paying them much. Just a little more would make a big difference. Also they should be allowed to get a job, but that would have to be carefully managed to keep the NCAA rules enforced.

Nope... Title IX baby... you have to give it to EVERYONE... not just the revenue producing sports …. Title IX is why football and basketball don't get paid much right now... all that money has to go to the girls field hockey teams.


Unless there is an opportunity for increased revenue streams it won't happen.

Scoots
10-23-2018, 10:03 AM
nope... there isn't a guy in the rivals 100 that isn't offered money to play at a school. do the math. If you just take the the top 25 teams in the country each is signing 4 freshman at least...

this isn't rocket science.

You guys always want to point out the exceptions like a curry... believe me... it goes beyond top 100.

I didn't say offered I said getting. You implied 100% of the rivals 100 were paid significant money in college. Are you changing your story now?

Scoots
10-23-2018, 10:15 AM
Nope... Title IX baby... you have to give it to EVERYONE... not just the revenue producing sports …. Title IX is why football and basketball don't get paid much right now... all that money has to go to the girls field hockey teams.

Unless there is an opportunity for increased revenue streams it won't happen.

And I think the NCAA and schools could afford to increase the stipend to every full scholarship athlete by $500. It would be expensive and they may have to cut back on some of their other expenses or collect more from the schools or increase the price of tickets or merch, but it IS possible.

IndyRealist
10-23-2018, 11:34 AM
The simple solution is to stop pretending there's something distinct and unique about amateur athletes and call it what it is: a job. Pay athletes for the work they already do and permit them to sign endorsement deals. Amateurism had been dead a long time now. It's just a facade to justify underpaying the labor force.

Scoots
10-23-2018, 12:27 PM
The simple solution is to stop pretending there's something distinct and unique about amateur athletes and call it what it is: a job. Pay athletes for the work they already do and permit them to sign endorsement deals. Amateurism had been dead a long time now. It's just a facade to justify underpaying the labor force.

So, just shut down college athletics? They don't make enough money supposedly to pay big money to ALL the athletes and they can't just pay some of them by law.

That would be fine with me, but I don't think it's at all likely.

IndyRealist
10-23-2018, 01:35 PM
So, just shut down college athletics? They don't make enough money supposedly to pay big money to ALL the athletes and they can't just pay some of them by law.

That would be fine with me, but I don't think it's at all likely.

If it's a job, you don't have to abide by title IX and you don't have to pay them equally. Big schools will pay their players more, but have a finite number of positions, so smaller schools will still get players. Not everyone works at Google, but people still do fine working at smaller companies.

The problem is that college athletics wants to hang onto amateurism because it's basically free money.

TheDish87
10-23-2018, 01:49 PM
its not a job

IndyRealist
10-23-2018, 01:59 PM
its not a job
How is it not a job? It has all the requirements of a job except one, that the labor isn't being compensated. Athletes put in like 40hr/wk between training, practicing, travel and actually competing. Pay them as employees as all the issues with title IX go away.

TheDish87
10-23-2018, 02:48 PM
the second they are recognized as employees you have the instant issue of who is worth what in terms of player and school, there just is no simple way to do it without over paying lesser players/schools or creating an unfair recruiting surface. as an employees they likely dont get their scholarship and are on the hook to cover all over their own expenses and pay taxes on them. but im all for letting them profit of themselves to some degree.

IndyRealist
10-23-2018, 03:39 PM
the second they are recognized as employees you have the instant issue of who is worth what in terms of player and school, there just is no simple way to do it without over paying lesser players/schools or creating an unfair recruiting surface. as an employees they likely dont get their scholarship and are on the hook to cover all over their own expenses and pay taxes on them. but im all for letting them profit of themselves to some degree.

Recruiting isn't fair now.

The NCAA can set guidelines for how much athletes can be paid, just like a professional league, because it WOULD be a professional league. Why couldn't a scholarship be a part of the benefits package? Yes, they'd have to pay taxes, and their salaries would reflect that.

Scoots
10-23-2018, 03:55 PM
How is it not a job? It has all the requirements of a job except one, that the labor isn't being compensated. Athletes put in like 40hr/wk between training, practicing, travel and actually competing. Pay them as employees as all the issues with title IX go away.

I see some issues with that. Right now as "student athletes" they are protected from having their coaches take up too much of their time. If it was a job their employer could demand huge time and the large number who don't make the NBA would be screwed out of their scholarship's supposed advantage.

Scoots
10-23-2018, 03:56 PM
the second they are recognized as employees you have the instant issue of who is worth what in terms of player and school, there just is no simple way to do it without over paying lesser players/schools or creating an unfair recruiting surface. as an employees they likely dont get their scholarship and are on the hook to cover all over their own expenses and pay taxes on them. but im all for letting them profit of themselves to some degree.

"Fair" is a fiction. Recruiting isn't close to equal now, nor should it be.

TheDish87
10-23-2018, 04:09 PM
for the big programs its relatively fair. even if you come up with some kind of tiered system what happens when someone comes out of nowhere to become the best player on the team making less then a top guy? things like that are just too complicated to deal with. how does it impact transfer rules? if youre now getting paid can you be released for poor play or injury?

IndyRealist
10-23-2018, 05:48 PM
for the big programs its relatively fair. even if you come up with some kind of tiered system what happens when someone comes out of nowhere to become the best player on the team making less then a top guy? things like that are just too complicated to deal with. how does it impact transfer rules? if youre now getting paid can you be released for poor play or injury?

I, in fact, know someone who lost an athletic scholarship because she got injured. It already happens

TheDish87
10-24-2018, 08:47 AM
i imagine it was a serious one. i do believe once you are awarded one you should be entitled to it no matter what. i think the NCAA has changed that rule from a year by year basis to all 4.

warfelg
10-24-2018, 08:51 AM
i imagine it was a serious one. i do believe once you are awarded one you should be entitled to it no matter what. i think the NCAA has changed that rule from a year by year basis to all 4.

No. It's always been year by year.

warfelg
10-24-2018, 08:52 AM
I, in fact, know someone who lost an athletic scholarship because she got injured. It already happens

Happens all the time. I had one pulled from me. Twice actually.

TheDish87
10-24-2018, 09:50 AM
No. It's always been year by year.

im pretty sure they changed it or might be in the process. i remember it coming up last year, ill see what i can find. maybe im just thinking of a proposal rather than actual change.

Vinylman
10-24-2018, 11:02 AM
I didn't say offered I said getting. You implied 100% of the rivals 100 were paid significant money in college. Are you changing your story now?

I said they were getting paid (you said significant money.. whatever that nebulous construct means). I will stand by that til the end of time...

Again, you are ****ing delusional if you don't think every recruited freshman at a top 25 school isn't getting compensated beyond the legal ways for attending the school.

Vinylman
10-24-2018, 11:05 AM
And I think the NCAA and schools could afford to increase the stipend to every full scholarship athlete by $500. It would be expensive and they may have to cut back on some of their other expenses or collect more from the schools or increase the price of tickets or merch, but it IS possible.

wow... $500 … oh boy... would that matter for peripheral athletes... I guess

any top athlete gets that handed to him in an envelope every Friday.

Vinylman
10-24-2018, 11:08 AM
If it's a job, you don't have to abide by title IX and you don't have to pay them equally. Big schools will pay their players more, but have a finite number of positions, so smaller schools will still get players. Not everyone works at Google, but people still do fine working at smaller companies.

The problem is that college athletics wants to hang onto amateurism because it's basically free money.

so you want to disband all women's sports at the University level just so mens basketball and football can get paid… interesting

IndyRealist
10-24-2018, 11:17 AM
so you want to disband all women's sports at the University level just so mens basketball and football can get paid… interesting

Not what I said. At all. Didn't you get on Scoots for doing exactly what you just did?

warfelg
10-24-2018, 11:22 AM
im pretty sure they changed it or might be in the process. i remember it coming up last year, ill see what i can find. maybe im just thinking of a proposal rather than actual change.

It was a proposal but it will never go through. How do you handle transfers, drop outs, leaving school early, career ending injuries, etc.?

Vinylman
10-24-2018, 11:23 AM
Not what I said. At all. Didn't you get on Scoots for doing exactly what you just did?

Once basketball and football revenues are no longer subject to title IX rules there would be no funding for womens athletics. You didn't need to say it... I was pointing out your ignorance on the subject matter as usual

Scoots
10-24-2018, 11:29 AM
I said they were getting paid (you said significant money.. whatever that nebulous construct means). I will stand by that til the end of time...

Again, you are ****ing delusional if you don't think every recruited freshman at a top 25 school isn't getting compensated beyond the legal ways for attending the school.

The implication was that the $125k wouldn't make a difference to what they were already getting paid to play in college.

And again, I'm certain there are recruited freshmen who are getting no under the table compensation.

Scoots
10-24-2018, 11:31 AM
wow... $500 … oh boy... would that matter for peripheral athletes... I guess

any top athlete gets that handed to him in an envelope every Friday.

Yes $500 would make a significant difference to many student athletes. I'd like it to be more, but that $500 probably costs the NCAA/Schools over $200M a year, so it's a significant change in expense and loss in profit.

IndyRealist
10-24-2018, 11:31 AM
Once basketball and football revenues are no longer subject to title IX rules there would be no funding for womens athletics. You didn't need to say it... I was pointing out your ignorance on the subject matter as usual

Sigh, that all depends on how the NCAA would restructure. Just like the issue with scholarships, there's no reason the NCAA couldn't require member universities to maintain women's programs. But you're so anxious to push your agenda you can't see it objectively. Just because they wouldn't be required to spend equally doesn't automatically kill women's programs.

Scoots
10-24-2018, 11:32 AM
Not what I said. At all. Didn't you get on Scoots for doing exactly what you just did?

I think the implication was that if you made the major men's sports into professions then title IX wouldn't apply and the other sports would lose their funding and thus go away.

Scoots
10-24-2018, 11:35 AM
Sigh, that all depends on how the NCAA would restructure. Just like the issue with scholarships, there's no reason the NCAA couldn't require member universities to maintain women's programs. But you're so anxious to push your agenda you can't see it objectively. Just because they wouldn't be required to spend equally doesn't automatically kill women's programs.

True, but that would be a MAJOR restructuring of the NCAA, and if the money being made by mens sports just went to the people involved in those sports, which is not an unreasonable assumption, where are the universities going to get the money to keep the other sports operating? And if the NCAA keeps funding them from mens sports the the players in those sports are not going to get much more money than they get now and we are right back where we started.

IndyRealist
10-24-2018, 11:41 AM
True, but that would be a MAJOR restructuring of the NCAA, and if the money being made by mens sports just went to the people involved in those sports, which is not an unreasonable assumption, where are the universities going to get the money to keep the other sports operating? And if the NCAA keeps funding them from mens sports the the players in those sports are not going to get much more money than they get now and we are right back where we started.

Why is that the assumption? Most of these schools are non profit public institutions, revenue generating programs are used to pay for non-revenue generating programs already.

Scoots
10-24-2018, 12:57 PM
Why is that the assumption? Most of these schools are non profit public institutions, revenue generating programs are used to pay for non-revenue generating programs already.

Yes, and if the popular men's sports were made professional they would likely not bring in more money to the bottom line, but considerably less. If the money from men's sports largely goes away where is the money to support the other sports at the same level going to come from?

Vinylman
10-25-2018, 08:45 AM
The implication was that the $125k wouldn't make a difference to what they were already getting paid to play in college.

And again, I'm certain there are recruited freshmen who are getting no under the table compensation.


The bolded... you continue to move the goal posts... I am talking about Rivals 100 guys not recruited freshman... honestly there is probably no one outside of the top 30 that G League teams would even consider.

As for the $125k offered by the G league... it is peanuts... it gets taxed, the player has to pay for housing, he has to pay for food, etc... Effectively it is no more than around $40k in under the table payments which is nothing.

Vinylman
10-25-2018, 08:57 AM
Yes $500 would make a significant difference to many student athletes. I'd like it to be more, but that $500 probably costs the NCAA/Schools over $200M a year, so it's a significant change in expense and loss in profit.

what profit? You think the NCAA and the schools are making a ton of money on sports programs? They aren't because the money makers are used to subsidize other sports teams and fund stadiums and facilities. The idea that there are profits in aggregate is laughable.

One can argue that Coachs make to much and that more of that should go to student athletes but the idea that it will make a difference is off.

Vinylman
10-25-2018, 09:04 AM
Sigh, that all depends on how the NCAA would restructure. Just like the issue with scholarships, there's no reason the NCAA couldn't require member universities to maintain women's programs. But you're so anxious to push your agenda you can't see it objectively. Just because they wouldn't be required to spend equally doesn't automatically kill women's programs.

LOL

where does the money come from? You do understand that the ACTUAL NCAA generates less than 10% of the total Revenues roughly $ 1 Billion out of $12 Billion

http://moneynation.com/how-much-money-does-the-ncaa-make/


The coaches make around 17% of Revenue... what should the players make under the new system?


As to your final point... who is going to fund the women's programs? student fees in form of higher tuition? Are you saying that all students should in effect subsidize NCAA football and basketball players?


I would take you more seriously if you made the argument that college athletics should just be done away with and let the free market dictate which sports succeed and which fail vis a vis a minor league system.


Simply put there is no fix for college athletics that get players paid what they want... if there was it would already be done.

Vinylman
10-25-2018, 09:12 AM
True, but that would be a MAJOR restructuring of the NCAA, and if the money being made by mens sports just went to the people involved in those sports, which is not an unreasonable assumption, where are the universities going to get the money to keep the other sports operating? And if the NCAA keeps funding them from mens sports the the players in those sports are not going to get much more money than they get now and we are right back where we started.

come on dude we are just going to raise tuition rates for students who can't afford college now so West Virginia University can have a women's field hockey team. Aren't you aware of the social significance of such an endeavor

Scoots
10-25-2018, 09:38 AM
The bolded... you continue to move the goal posts... I am talking about Rivals 100 guys not recruited freshman... honestly there is probably no one outside of the top 30 that G League teams would even consider.

As for the $125k offered by the G league... it is peanuts... it gets taxed, the player has to pay for housing, he has to pay for food, etc... Effectively it is no more than around $40k in under the table payments which is nothing.

Sorry, no. You moved the goal posts and I responded you your quote "you are ****ing delusional if you don't think every recruited freshman at a top 25 school isn't getting compensated beyond the legal ways".

Do you have any evidence that every full scholarship freshman is getting compensation outside of the rules?

Vinylman
10-25-2018, 09:41 AM
Sorry, no. You moved the goal posts and I responded you your quote "you are ****ing delusional if you don't think every recruited freshman at a top 25 school isn't getting compensated beyond the legal ways".

Do you have any evidence that every full scholarship freshman is getting compensation outside of the rules?

you are right... I am wrong


the top 25 teams don't pay their recruits... it is a myth I created in my own mind


thanks for setting me straight

Scoots
10-25-2018, 09:44 AM
what profit? You think the NCAA and the schools are making a ton of money on sports programs? They aren't because the money makers are used to subsidize other sports teams and fund stadiums and facilities. The idea that there are profits in aggregate is laughable.

One can argue that Coachs make to much and that more of that should go to student athletes but the idea that it will make a difference is off.

So is it your contention that the NCAA and the schools have no profit to lose? How can you possibly believe the NCAA schools don't make money? They are not all non-profit, far from it. Add to that that even a non-profit that uses the money they have left over to do upgrades to their facilities or give out additional compensation, that is essentially the money I'm talking about.

If you don't think $500 a month would make a difference to the lives of student athletes you are mistaken.

Scoots
10-25-2018, 09:45 AM
you are right... I am wrong


the top 25 teams don't pay their recruits... it is a myth I created in my own mind


thanks for setting me straight

I never said that no recruits were paid. I have just maintained that not every one is. But nice try.

Scoots
10-25-2018, 09:47 AM
Simply put there is no fix for college athletics that get players paid what they want... if there was it would already be done.

This I agree with. There is no way to make everybody happy. But I also think it's possible to improve the current system with some relatively minor tweaks.

Scoots
10-25-2018, 09:53 AM
come on dude we are just going to raise tuition rates for students who can't afford college now so West Virginia University can have a women's field hockey team. Aren't you aware of the social significance of such an endeavor

Colleges spend huge money to recruit students who can pay, you don't think those freshmen engineering students want to pay an extra $10k for the ability to cheer for Women's Squash?

IndyRealist
10-25-2018, 10:39 AM
LOL

where does the money come from? You do understand that the ACTUAL NCAA generates less than 10% of the total Revenues roughly $ 1 Billion out of $12 Billion

http://moneynation.com/how-much-money-does-the-ncaa-make/


The coaches make around 17% of Revenue... what should the players make under the new system?


As to your final point... who is going to fund the women's programs? student fees in form of higher tuition? Are you saying that all students should in effect subsidize NCAA football and basketball players?


I would take you more seriously if you made the argument that college athletics should just be done away with and let the free market dictate which sports succeed and which fail vis a vis a minor league system.


Simply put there is no fix for college athletics that get players paid what they want... if there was it would already be done.

I'm all for doing away with the NCAA and amateurism. You'd know that if you didn't jump in the conversation at the halfway point and actually bothered to grasp what the arguments are instead of making assumptions. I was responding to a hypothetical fix to the NCAA, that was not my position.

You also need to have a better grasp of how non profits work. They spend their revenue in the form of salaries and upgrades in order to not show PROFIT. The NCAA makes tons of REVENUE. If you restructured the NCAA into a nonprofit professional league, you could pay players tuition plus a salary AND fund non-revenue generating sports and still have money left over. Major universities fund professional level facilities without taxpayer money like the NBA and NFL needs. How do you think that happens if universities are just breaking even? They take loans that are paid from revenue in future years to show a net zero profit.

tl;dr UNIVERSITIES MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ON SPORTS.

Heediot
10-25-2018, 11:15 AM
no one is forcing schools to have so many varieties of sports teams?

pay the players, and screw the sports that can't sustain themselves.

WaDe03
10-25-2018, 11:19 AM
Women’s sports shouldn’t be funded in any way.