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GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 01:19 PM
kinda like Karma, when you think youíre a good person ďportrayingĒ but yet, you go around insulting people and calling them names?


Lmfao I canít with you today, Iíve got too much work to do today. Not all of us live on welfare, some of us have to work professional jobs for a living. Take care little buddy :)

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 01:19 PM
Lmfao! Iím 6í3/6í4 220lb ;) back to work son.


Lebron has been getting better every year, just because you donít ďthinkĒ so doesnít mean it isnít true.


Heís a much better shooter, smarter and much more poised than heís ever been. The way he carried that trash to the Finals last year showed heís still the best player in the game by a good margin.

You have literally no evidence to back your claims in this post, in fact, you never do. Yes LeBron is still the best player today, show me where I said he wasnít.

6í3 220 pounds of lil puppy dog in you little guy.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 01:24 PM
kinda like Karma, when you think youíre a good person ďportrayingĒ but yet, you go around insulting people and calling them names?


Lmfao I canít with you today, Iíve got too much work to do today. Not all of us live on welfare, some of us have to work professional jobs for a living. Take care little buddy :)

Hey little guy, must I praise the lord in every post? It was offending a few atheist in here so I stopped. I hope me calling you itty bitty obviously messing around didnít hurt your feelings, if so then Iím sorry but that wasnít my intention. Praying for you.

As for my job, Iím an investor kid. I do with my days as I want, if I want to work Iíll look at some proprieties or other investment opportunities or Iíll read a book and learn more etc. Iíve put myself in a position that my investments pay any bills I have plus give me a lot of money to play with/save for other investments. No welfare needed here. Speak in such disrespect towards the GOAT that is Wade again and I may have to buy out your restaurant and fire you, be careful.

valade16
09-27-2018, 01:47 PM
I'm sure LeBron would say he's better no than he was earlier in his career and I'm sure he's a more savvy knowledgeable player. But didn't MJ also think he was better post comeback because he was more knowledgeable as well? I'm sure their knowledge helps them, but LeBron (and MJ) were unquestionably better in their younger years when their athleticism more than compensated for not knowing all the veteran tricks.

LeBron in Miami was an elite defender, elite playmaker, and became a quality shooter while having elite athleticism. That was probably his absolute peak.

IKnowHoops
09-27-2018, 02:15 PM
Thereís no point arguing with him. He would be striking Lebronís dick if washed up Wade was on the roster. I hope Dwayne Wade goes down with a season ending injury next year :laugh2:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍😂😂😂😂mfao @ ďstrikingĒ

So so true. Wadeís switch hitter demeanor towards Bron now is terrible.

Wade didnít take 8 straight teams to the eastern conference finals. Bron stil is that guy.

IKnowHoops
09-27-2018, 02:18 PM
Smh your last part of your post is ****ed up, especially with it being his last year. Karma will come back on you kid. LeBron is my 2nd favorite player ever. You take any kind of criticism as meaning I hate whoever the player is, itís not my fault youíre a weenie! Itís like me saying Wade isnít as good as he was so now I obviously hate the guy. Would I stroke LeBrons dick? It depends but I wouldnít be scared of it.

😂😂

IKnowHoops
09-27-2018, 02:21 PM
Ok letís say heís slightly better offensively because IF he is (he isnít) then itís a very small margin. His defense in 12-13 is light years ahead of what it currently is.

No, he just tried more on d with less overall responsibilities.

The thing is he is totally unstoppable now with zero weaknesses....which means he is much better than Wade Wade.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 02:40 PM
No, he just tried more on d with less overall responsibilities.

The thing is he is totally unstoppable now with zero weaknesses....which means he is much better than Wade Wade.

So now he doesnít play hard lol? Stop with the sorry excuses, the results are what they are. Heís far worse defensively.

Wade was unstoppable, how soon they forget!

Jamiecballer
09-27-2018, 02:40 PM
Ahhh I care about team basketball and the NBA game (and his impact there) not an assessment of raw talent/skill/1v1 ability or anything so we just see the game much differently I guess. Can't just ignore how impactful some players are and how it affects the defenses etc. imo so we will just agree to disagree on what matters.

i'm not saying it doesn't matter, because personally i am viewing things the exact same way as you - except when talking about a players all-time rank. i appreciate Lowry much more than certain ex-teammates who got all the accolades because he was good at making high degree of difficulty 2 point shots look pretty, for example. but i prefer to look more at skills with all-time ranking because you can't place these other guys in historical context without knowing who they would be playing with. Steve Nash with Iverson's cast, for example, goes nowhere.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 02:41 PM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍😂😂😂😂mfao @ ďstrikingĒ

So so true. Wadeís switch hitter demeanor towards Bron now is terrible.

Wade didnít take 8 straight teams to the eastern conference finals. Bron stil is that guy.

Heís my second favorite player ever lol Iím just tired of people talking out of their *** saying heís never been better because he has.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 02:43 PM
I'm sure LeBron would say he's better no than he was earlier in his career and I'm sure he's a more savvy knowledgeable player. But didn't MJ also think he was better post comeback because he was more knowledgeable as well? I'm sure their knowledge helps them, but LeBron (and MJ) were unquestionably better in their younger years when their athleticism more than compensated for not knowing all the veteran tricks.

LeBron in Miami was an elite defender, elite playmaker, and became a quality shooter while having elite athleticism. That was probably his absolute peak.

I donít see why this is so hard for people to understand. Itís like, as long as youíre great offensively weíll just forget about 50% of the game on the defensive side (Curry also gets this special treatment).

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 02:44 PM
Wade and LeBron were going at each otherís necks when they were both in their primes and played both sides of the ball, not crazy to think a peak Wade would be better than a LeBron who plays one side of the ball now.

Wade's prime was in 08-09. I'm sorry to tell you but LeBron, presently, is a much better player than he was in 08-09. And despite Wade's prime years, they rather short samples. LeBron's sustained prime years and being elite is a mountain of evidence that he's in his own league.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 02:52 PM
Have you even re-read the question? Because it's 2 questions:

Who is currently greater all-time? And who will finish their careers higher ranked?

You guys are saying there's 0 argument that Curry could be ranked as high or could ever be ranked as high. Please actually read the things you talk about, please.

Maybe if you read through posts, you would see that I have already stated that unless Durant massively fails in the foreseeable future and doesn't continue winning Finals MVP's/rings and Curry does, there is NOTHING Curry can do to surpass Durant because Durant's already got a huge advantage in career accolades. In terms of current ranking, this isn't and hasn't been a discussion since Durant joined the Warriors. He's benefited the most from joining the Warriors in a way that Curry hasn't primarily because Curry has now been pushed aside and his "gravitational" impact isn't as tangible as Durant's impact, in my honest opinion. Curry has won three rings, true. And how many of those would you say he was even close to being the best player? None. Durant has countered LeBron in every single NBA Finals they have played against each other because he creates a matchup nightmare in a way Curry really can't. You love to throw out that Cavs focused on Curry. Yes, that's what I do in the park with my team as well. If someone can't dribble on the other team, we trap him and force a bad pass. It's called an informed decision in which they knew Curry was prone to making mistakes. Is it possible for Curry to surpass and rank higher than Durant? Yeah. But he'd have to hope Durant slows down and by the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be happening soon. Curry is also older than Durant and has had his fair share of injury issues so his longevity isn't as guaranteed just because he can shoot the ball. But I can't wait for you to get emotional and bring up me being a "Durant defender" because he was a former OKC player who trashed OKC verbally. Is that the Valade way?

valade16
09-27-2018, 02:53 PM
I donít see why this is so hard for people to understand. Itís like, as long as youíre great offensively weíll just forget about 50% of the game on the defensive side (Curry also gets this special treatment).

As for LeBron's defense I think it's a little of both. I think LeBron coasts during the regular season (and even some playoff series) and plays bad D but he is able to play good D when he tries. But with that being said, LeBron trying his hardest at D nowadays is still not as good as he was at defense during his actual peak. I don't think he is the DPOY caliber player he was back in his Miami days.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 02:55 PM
I donít see why this is so hard for people to understand. Itís like, as long as youíre great offensively weíll just forget about 50% of the game on the defensive side (Curry also gets this special treatment).

No player in the NBA has had more of an offensive load to carry than LeBron did last year so if you're going to penalize him for not playing defense in the regular season while also playing top three in NBA minutes last season, you're just being unreasonable. Wade hasn't been playing defense for ages but I see you always talking highly of him as if he is the second-coming of Jordan.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 02:56 PM
Hey little guy, must I praise the lord in every post? It was offending a few atheist in here so I stopped. I hope me calling you itty bitty obviously messing around didnít hurt your feelings, if so then Iím sorry but that wasnít my intention. Praying for you.

As for my job, Iím an investor kid. I do with my days as I want, if I want to work Iíll look at some proprieties or other investment opportunities or Iíll read a book and learn more etc. Iíve put myself in a position that my investments pay any bills I have plus give me a lot of money to play with/save for other investments. No welfare needed here. Speak in such disrespect towards the GOAT that is Wade again and I may have to buy out your restaurant and fire you, be careful.

Lmfao buying a ounce of weed and selling it on the block isnít investing and please do buy out all 5 restaurants. :laugh2:

Wade is going to limp out this season and itís going to be hilarious! He will wish he can drop 60 like Kobe did his final game.

Kobe > Wade

valade16
09-27-2018, 02:57 PM
Maybe if you read through posts, you would see that I have already stated that unless Durant massively fails in the foreseeable future and doesn't continue winning Finals MVP's/rings and Curry does, there is NOTHING Curry can do to surpass Durant because Durant's already got a huge advantage in career accolades. In terms of current ranking, this isn't and hasn't been a discussion since Durant joined the Warriors. He's benefited the most from joining the Warriors in a way that Curry hasn't primarily because Curry has now been pushed aside and his "gravitational" impact isn't as tangible as Durant's impact, in my honest opinion. Curry has won three rings, true. And how many of those would you say he was even close to being the best player? None. Durant has countered LeBron in every single NBA Finals they have played against each other because he creates a matchup nightmare in a way Curry really can't. You love to throw out that Cavs focused on Curry. Yes, that's what I do in the park with my team as well. If someone can't dribble on the other team, we trap him and force a bad pass. It's called an informed decision in which they knew Curry was prone to making mistakes. Is it possible for Curry to surpass and rank higher than Durant? Yeah. But he'd have to hope Durant slows down and by the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be happening soon. Curry is also older than Durant and has had his fair share of injury issues so his longevity isn't as guaranteed just because he can shoot the ball. But I can't wait for you to get emotional and bring up me being a "Durant defender" because he was a former OKC player who trashed OKC verbally. Is that the Valade way?

First Bolded: So I was correct in my characterization of your belief?

Second Bolded: Do you mean in the Finals, or do you not think Curry was the best player on the Warriors during their first Title (and if so, who was)?

Third Bolded: Certainly not, the Valade way is to provide facts and evidence to back up what I say. The Flashbolt way is to not present any tangible evidence and dismiss anything that counters his opinion.

Glad to see you have at least stopped spamming the thread with 15 posts about me. Unless you'd care to continue? Is that the Flashbolt way?

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 02:57 PM
As for LeBron's defense I think it's a little of both. I think LeBron coasts during the regular season (and even some playoff series) and plays bad D but he is able to play good D when he tries. But with that being said, LeBron trying his hardest at D nowadays is still not as good as he was at defense during his actual peak. I don't think he is the DPOY caliber player he was back in his Miami days.

Best defender in the 2016 NBA Finals. When he has to be, he is an elite defender. The guy knows when to turn it up. He's been too good for too long to care about playing defense in a meaningless regular season.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 02:59 PM
Wade's prime was in 08-09. I'm sorry to tell you but LeBron, presently, is a much better player than he was in 08-09. And despite Wade's prime years, they rather short samples. LeBron's sustained prime years and being elite is a mountain of evidence that he's in his own league.

:laugh2: Got Em!

valade16
09-27-2018, 02:59 PM
Best defender in the 2016 NBA Finals. When he has to be, he is an elite defender. The guy knows when to turn it up. He's been too good for too long to care about playing defense in a meaningless regular season.

Ok, I agree with all of this (NO WAY, I'm not supposed to be able to agree with you or anyone else!). Still think LeBron was a better defender in his Miami days, even when dialed in today.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 02:59 PM
First Bolded: So I was correct in my characterization of your belief?

Second Bolded: Do you mean in the Finals, or do you not think Curry was the best player on the Warriors during their first Title (and if so, who was)?

Third Bolded: Certainly not, the Valade way is to provide facts and evidence to back up what I say. The Flashbolt way is to not present any tangible evidence and dismiss anything that counters his opinion.

Glad to see you have at least stopped spamming the thread with 15 posts about me. Unless you'd care to continue? Is that the Flashbolt way?

1) Can you read?

2) Can you read?

3) No, the Valade way unfortunately, has become one where he gets too emotional and becomes much too stubborn to admit that other people have conflicting views but because he is Valade and his way is the right way, he thinks his opinion is a fact. And before you think it is just "me" having this view, do yourself a favor and read how demeaning your posts are. It's disgusting.

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:02 PM
1) Can you read?

2) Can you read?

3) No, the Valade way unfortunately, has become one where he gets too emotional and becomes much too stubborn to admit that other people have conflicting views but because he is Valade and his way is the right way, he thinks his opinion is a fact. And before you think it is just "me" having this view, do yourself a favor and read how demeaning your posts are. It's disgusting.

:laugh2: Yeah, my posts are demeaning in a post where your first two points are:

1) Do you read

2) Do you read

Seriously, at this point you're a bad caricature of a troll. Yesterday was way better than the day before in this thread, and the main reason why is because you weren't here.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 03:08 PM
:laugh2: Yeah, my posts are demeaning in a post where your first two points are:

1) Do you read

2) Do you read

Seriously, at this point you're a bad caricature of a troll. Yesterday was way better than the day before in this thread, and the main reason why is because you weren't here.

"Hey, if I call him a troll, maybe I can convince myself that he is a troll and ignore everything he says because they are obviously trollish responses."

Unfortunately, Valade, you aren't very bright nor witty. I can read through you like a book because well, your personality is one that is far too common in the online world. Let's clear things up: Things got out of hand because you began implying that because I am an OKC fan and Durant was a former OKC player, I must be biased in picking Durant over Curry. This, despite the fact that many likely have Durant above Curry. You're the one who was being unreasonable and demeaning to begin with. I'm just returning the favor. If you don't like it, maybe you should change the way you portray yourself. I know you've gone back to re-read your comments so please, ask yourself, would you like it if your family member read how you type? It's disgusting. This is a forum site where people are allowed to have opinions, y'know?

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:23 PM
"Hey, if I call him a troll, maybe I can convince myself that he is a troll and ignore everything he says because they are obviously trollish responses."

Unfortunately, Valade, you aren't very bright nor witty. I can read through you like a book because well, your personality is one that is far too common in the online world. Let's clear things up: Things got out of hand because you began implying that because I am an OKC fan and Durant was a former OKC player, I must be biased in picking Durant over Curry. This, despite the fact that many likely have Durant above Curry. You're the one who was being unreasonable and demeaning to begin with. I'm just returning the favor. If you don't like it, maybe you should change the way you portray yourself. I know you've gone back to re-read your comments so please, ask yourself, would you like it if your family member read how you type? It's disgusting. This is a forum site where people are allowed to have opinions, y'know?

I was not being unreasonable, here was my take in the beginning:

I don't think you're crazy saying either one, but both certainly have a leg to stand on.

Here was your take:

There is no debate to be had here. "Debatable." No, not really anymore. Durant's a better player by most measures.


I wasn't being unreasonable there. As for your whole Holier Than Thou church act, sorry I hurt your eyes so much. But it's hard to claim any sort of moral high ground and talk about how family members would like responses on here when you freely admit to being terrible too by "returning the favor". Moral arbiter indeed.


People are allowed to have opinions, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinions. At least I wouldn't say "there is no argument and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot with no leg to stand on". Wonder who engaged in that sort of behavior? (hint: not me).


But please, by all means continue to post numerous posts making fun of me or saying I'm stupid or not bright or witty while claiming that my behavior is disgusting. It's always funny seeing people who wallow in the mud try to play the moral high ground card.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 03:24 PM
My entire judgement of KD has been in OKC and now GS yes, that is where he has played lol. Like I have said you just want to give him credit for things he hasn't proven while I am judging him for what he has done/proven.

Sure Klay is a solid scorer because Curry is the main playmaker, again they fit. KD was the scorer, Westy the creator in the same way. KD hasn't proven to be capable of being that main guy that a team runs through, defenses focus in on, send most attention towards regularly etc. which I am pointing out. Even when it was Westbrook you hint at KD not liking it but OKC and other teams did realize Westy was the one the team relied on to create we agree (saw pop try switching Kawhi on Westy for that reason despite KD obviously being a better player).

Some want to pretend we know he can do all this at an elite level because we see him taking advantage in his scoring roles but that doesn't make it necessarily true. To me you have to prove you are capable of something not just get credit for things because you jumped to a team loaded far above others so you don't have to show it (and he never stepped it up in OKC enough to prove that, blame Westy all u want but he failed at times too). It's just excuse after excuse despite continuously being in excellent situations next star level talent. I am not lying to you, just pointing out the reality of his career so far. If you love accolades and watching one team stomp the league without much resistance then sure he has been very impressive. I am judging him off of everything I have seen from him and it is that he loves to rely on others to create while playing his role and when he has needed to really step up and carry a heavy load against similar talent he hasn't really gotten it done (again not just that year and his drop off RS to PS being incredibly bad but even 2014 outplayed by westy vs SA arguably then the GS series when they blew the 3-1 and he left). It's everything combined that tells me so far in his career he hasn't proven to be that guy you say. He can definitely kick it up when he doesn't need to be the main offensive creator or defensive anchor but that isn't a role most get at an all time level (and is directly related to him running from said challenge).

I think you pointing out you lacked playmaking/creation after Harden left only helps my point haha. KD isn't the type to fill in that role even when it was needed and apparently it left a hole after Harden. Sure they can look at each other more as rivals as they will matchup more and go at it given positions/size. Iggy and Draymond matchup with him more too but I still think Curry is obviously better, again that just seemed irrelevant.

Overall to say either one is clearly better than the other is just off base imo and I am explaining why with the Curry/Durant stuff people seem to be ignoring in this thread. They are very different and before joining up it seemed like Curry was the better overall player and creator for his team while KD was the better scorer and more well rounded. The key difference is that on the same team it seems quite obvious who has maintained that creator/gravity player while together, who the focal point of other defenses has been, and who has benefited based on the answer to the first two. It was likely to happen from the start and many pointed out it likely would, now that it happened I am just arguing against that being a sign one clearly became better than the other or anything. He benefits much more than Curry in this situation and it shows in him going from clearly 3 and beyond before his jump to the clearly better player than Curry now (consensus wise).

There is no doubt in my mind, under the current Warriors system, had you taken out Curry and subbed Durant in the entire time, he would have achieved far more. Like I said, many OKC fans hated Westbrook before Durant made his decision. Really, it irritates me when Durant felt he was hated in OKC when most of that hatred was towards Westbrook. Presti did a great job gathering players but post-Harden, we've made some costly mistakes in not only selecting players but via trade and also, creating a team that supplements the best player on our team, Kevin Durant. The underlying problem was that Westbrook's personality took over Durant's and that led our management into thinking Durant could be the scorer and Westbrook the "mini-LeBron." As I've stated, rumors of Durant being frustrated with OKC wasn't just because of the teammates they had but because management never took a step forward to figure out who should lead the franchise.

In the positionless-state of basketball currently, I believe Durant can be a much better playmaker and visibly so for the Warriors than on OKC. It's got to do with many factors but primarily, Warriors having the supporting players that a guy who dominates the ball would benefit heavily from because the 2nd/3rd best player on the Warriors don't NEED the ball at all to have an impact. Draymond and Klay can go five plays straight without touching the ball and still be elite players. Who in the OKC had any type of impact such as that? It played into Curry's favor a lot. Curry didn't create the Warriors system alone. If you had stuck Monta Ellis on the Warriors still, he'd have ruined any chance of the Warriors progressing. The supporting cast of the Warriors led by Curry are what made this thing a beautiful juggernaut to behold. I wasn't shocked when Durant left. I could see how problematic it was for him as I've watched numerous OKC games where Russell Westbrook would brush Durant aside, force a terrible play, and Durant couldn't do anything but watch. I was shocked he joined the Warriors when there were many teams that would have instantly became title contenders had he joined. Instead, joining the Warriors created one contender: The Warriors. And that is why I dislike Durant.

ewing
09-27-2018, 03:27 PM
That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm not taking credit away from KD scoring one on one, he's amazing at it. I'm saying for a superstar who is great at one on one scoring opportunities, actually getting to see a lot of those opportunities makes it far easier on him to be able to do so.

I'm saying that if the defenses game plan was to trap and double KD to get the ball out of his hands I'd expect his numbers to not look as good and I'd certainly expect Curry's to increase if he were getting open looks as a result of doubling KD.

I don't think that Curry would have as easy a time with one on one's as KD because he's not as good a one on one player as KD, but I also don't think if the Cavs strategy was to get the ball out of KD's hands as soon as possible whenever he touched it that GS's plan would be for him to pass to Curry and have Curry go one on one.

There has never been a strategy to double Curry the second he touches the ball regardless of circumstance. if GS wanted to get clear outs for Curry using the same type of sets they use for KD they would get them. The only reason he would get doubled more is b/c he would have to dribble into defense b/c he can't catch it standing still then turn and shoot the ball in your face like KD. Also, your implying KD scoring in isolation is an example of him getting open looks b/c Curry gets trapped- its not.

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:33 PM
There has never been a strategy to double Curry the second he touches the ball regardless of circumstance. if GS wanted to get clear outs for Curry using the same type of sets they use for KD they would get them. The only reason he would get doubled more is b/c he would have to dribble into defense b/c he can't catch it standing still then turn and shoot the ball in your face like KD. Also, you implying KD scoring in isolation is an example of him getting open looks b/c Curry gets trapped- its not.

If you want to get incredibly literal and detailed, yes, there has never been a strategy that simply said "no matter the circumstance or context, immediately double Curry. If it's 2 on 2 fast break and Curry gets the ball, both defenders immediately break away from whoever they were guarding and go to Curry leaving everyone else wide open." But I've already shown, the Cavs strategy was to get the ball out of Curry's hands whenever possible (obviously, there are situations where it would have been inadvisable to double Curry or trap him). So your argument is "they didn't do it 100% of the time", OK they still did it a lot.

Yes, KD isn't getting open looks when he's in one on one, but he's still one on one, which is the matchup GS wants. If the Cavs tried to trap KD to get the ball out of his hands, instead of simply passing to Curry for a one on one, the Warriors would do their hockey assist passing to find the open 3 point shooter (which ya know, Curry perennially leads the league in). How GS handles the trap of either player would be different, but the end result would be the same, the player constantly trapped and forced to give up the ball would not have as great stats and the others who benefitted from the attention on them would.

So if you're point is they don't do it 100% of the time, congratulations, we're in agreement. But they still did it, a lot. More than you make it sound (which is that they didn't do it at all).

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 03:33 PM
I was not being unreasonable, here was my take in the beginning:

I don't think you're crazy saying either one, but both certainly have a leg to stand on.

Here was your take:

There is no debate to be had here. "Debatable." No, not really anymore. Durant's a better player by most measures.


I wasn't being unreasonable there. As for your whole Holier Than Thou church act, sorry I hurt your eyes so much. But it's hard to claim any sort of moral high ground and talk about how family members would like responses on here when you freely admit to being terrible too by "returning the favor". Moral arbiter indeed.


People are allowed to have opinions, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinions. At least I wouldn't say "there is no argument and anyone saying otherwise is an idiot with no leg to stand on". Wonder who engaged in that sort of behavior? (hint: not me).


But please, by all means continue to post numerous posts making fun of me or saying I'm stupid or not bright or witty while claiming that my behavior is disgusting. It's always funny seeing people who wallow in the mud try to play the moral high ground card.

Making fun of you? You clearly love to play the victim card, don't you? I said what I said. I stand by what I said. What I say is my opinion. Just like I said there is no debate to be had, that is my opinion on this. I think because of Curry's size, he's been manipulated and has played poorly against the Cavs - who have done a great job playing against him. Curry's a much better shooter than Durant but Durant can rebound and also defend much better than Curry. You can't trap Durant nor can you bully him because he's got insane length and height. If Curry was Durant's size, we wouldn't be having a discussion about any of this: He would be the GOAT in terms of skillset. Unfortunately, that is not the case. So this is why I said there is no debate and that Durant is the better player.

You replied with this:

First Bolded: Still more touted than KD's 0 before the Dubs...

Second Bolded: Since joining the Warriors yes... which was my point. Curry achieved more before KD joined the Dubs.

But I get it, you still have a hard on for your franchise piece KD (and likely hate Curry for doing him and the Thunder dirty in the WCF) so there's not really much point talking to you about this.


I never disrespected you nor brought emotion to this; you did. You're the one who became unreasonable, not me. But hey, continue playing the victim card. If you want a serious discussion, don't start being a d-bag and you'll get one.

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:38 PM
Making fun of you? You clearly love to play the victim card, don't you? I said what I said. I stand by what I said. What I say is my opinion. Just like I said there is no debate to be had, that is my opinion on this. I think because of Curry's size, he's been manipulated and has played poorly against the Cavs - who have done a great job playing against him. Curry's a much better shooter than Durant but Durant can rebound and also defend much better than Curry. You can't trap Durant nor can you bully him because he's got insane length and height. If Curry was Durant's size, we wouldn't be having a discussion about any of this: He would be the GOAT in terms of skillset. Unfortunately, that is not the case. So this is why I said there is no debate and that Durant is the better player.

You replied with this:

First Bolded: Still more touted than KD's 0 before the Dubs...

Second Bolded: Since joining the Warriors yes... which was my point. Curry achieved more before KD joined the Dubs.

But I get it, you still have a hard on for your franchise piece KD (and likely hate Curry for doing him and the Thunder dirty in the WCF) so there's not really much point talking to you about this.

I never disrespected you nor brought emotion to this; you did. You're the one who became unreasonable, not me. But hey, continue playing the victim card. If you want a serious discussion, don't start being a d-bag and you'll get one.

I'm not playing the victim card, and it's funny to hear you accuse me of that coming from someone who a moment ago was going "My eyes! The insults are so disgusting! Imagine saying that to your mother!" lol

But hey, I said what I said. I stand by what I said. What I say is my opinion. And I was right when I said "so there's really no point in talking to you about this" wasn't I when you've already said there is no discussion to be had.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I will try to be more gentle from now on.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 03:41 PM
I'm not playing the victim card, and it's funny to hear you accuse me of that coming from someone who a moment ago was going "My eyes! The insults are so disgusting! Imagine saying that to your mother!" lol

But hey, I said what I said. I stand by what I said. What I say is my opinion. And I was right when I said "so there's really no point in talking to you about this" wasn't I when you've already said there is no discussion to be had.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. I did not realize you were so sensitive, and I apologize for making you emotional. I will try to be more gentle from now on.

You didn't hurt my feelings, pal. You've just disappointed me. I expect more from you as a poster and you've simply been incapable of understanding quite simple indifferences and become emotional. But hey, whichever way you slice it, I'm not the only one who feels this way so I hope you can walk away from this somewhat improved. If not, so be it. There's better discussions to be had elsewhere than simply going back-and-forth with you.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 03:44 PM
For my own sake, I tried to put you on ignore so we can avoid getting off-topic. It's obvious you and I never get anywhere when we have a discussion. Valade, at least be respectful enough to not quote me so I don't get any notifications from you. Can't ignore a mod but it should be your duty to clean the forums up and I believe this is a fair proposal.

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:45 PM
You didn't hurt my feelings, pal. You've just disappointed me. I expect more from you as a poster and you've simply been incapable of understanding quite simple indifferences and become emotional. But hey, whichever way you slice it, I'm not the only one who feels this way so I hope you can walk away from this somewhat improved. If not, so be it. There's better discussions to be had elsewhere than simply going back-and-forth with you.

I agree, there's better discussion to be had elsewhere. I think it's best if we just ignore each other.

tredigs
09-27-2018, 03:45 PM
Flash has completely lost it.

ewing
09-27-2018, 03:48 PM
If you want to get incredibly literal and detailed, yes, there has never been a strategy that simply said "no matter the circumstance or context, immediately double Curry. If it's 2 on 2 fast break and Curry gets the ball, both defenders immediately break away from whoever they were guarding and go to Curry leaving everyone else wide open." But I've already shown, the Cavs strategy was to get the ball out of Curry's hands whenever possible (obviously, there are situations where it would have been inadvisable to double Curry or trap him). So your argument is "they didn't do it 100% of the time", OK they still did it a lot.

Yes, KD isn't getting open looks when he's in one on one, but he's still one on one, which is the matchup GS wants. If the Cavs tried to trap KD to get the ball out of his hands, instead of simply passing to Curry for a one on one, the Warriors would do their hockey assist passing to find the open 3 point shooter (which ya know, Curry perennially leads the league in). How GS handles the trap of either player would be different, but the end result would be the same, the player constantly trapped and forced to give up the ball would not have as great stats and the others who benefitted from the attention on them would.

So if you're point is they don't do it 100% of the time, congratulations, we're in agreement. But they still did it, a lot. More than you make it sound (which is that they didn't do it at all).

they did it a lot b/c you can do it a lot to a great scorer that plays in screen roll and runs off screens all the time. I am sure other players got buckets b/c they did it but it that's not why KD got isolation opportunities. it was there strategy "whenever possible" like you said. it possible a lot less often when you are clearing out for KD then when you are running Curry off screens. The Cavs did not say we are going to trap Curry b/c he is such a threat but we will let KD go one on one b/c he isn't as big a threat. They play differently and present defensives with different choices. Are you trying to waste peoples time?

mngopher35
09-27-2018, 03:48 PM
i'm not saying it doesn't matter, because personally i am viewing things the exact same way as you - except when talking about a players all-time rank. i appreciate Lowry much more than certain ex-teammates who got all the accolades because he was good at making high degree of difficulty 2 point shots look pretty, for example. but i prefer to look more at skills with all-time ranking because you can't place these other guys in historical context without knowing who they would be playing with. Steve Nash with Iverson's cast, for example, goes nowhere.

Steve Nash and other PG's might be more skilled than big men like Shaq though with that thought process. That doesn't mean their impact was higher at all so if that is what you are saying I think you are more off base.

I dunno it seems like you prefer to pick and choose what skills matter instead of talking about their actual on court impacts then? Like taking a high difficulty shot is not the same as having an entire defense shift, that is a ridiculous comparison I just can't get behind. I have no idea how you rank but if it ignores the players actual impact through their careers I just think you are off base.

valade16
09-27-2018, 03:55 PM
they did it a lot b/c you can do it a lot to a great scorer that plays in screen roll and runs off screens all the time. I am sure other players got buckets b/c they did it but it that's not why KD got isolation opportunities. it was there strategy "whenever possible" like you said. it possible a lot less often when you are clearing out for KD then when you are running Curry off screens. The Cavs did not say we are going to trap Curry b/c he is such a threat but we will let KD go one on one b/c he isn't as big a threat. They play differently and present defensives with different choices. Are you trying to waste peoples time?

They did it because they wanted the ball out of his hands because they felt the Warriors were most dangerous with Curry having the ball initiating the offense off screens. That is not my opinion by the way, it's what the Cavs actually said (and I posted the article on it). As for them allowing KD to go one on one, that was because they felt him one on one was a lesser threat than doubling him and leaving Curry or Klay open on the 3pt line.

No, I'm not trying to waste anyone's time, but I am wasting my own by constantly posting evidence only for people to ignore it.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:00 PM
Durant is the better player probably. But it isn't a mystery that Durant's best playoff numbers came when he went to a team so ****ing loaded, it allowed him way more freedom than any scorer of his caliber has ever had. If people want to deny the fact that Cleveland basically lived with him being able to go 1-1, instead game planning to try and make Curry's life harder knowing GS's offense is more difficult to handle if you let Curry start forcing switches of PnR, I don't know what to tell you. Curry was amazing in his 2015 playoff run, long before Durant ever showed up. Curry was better in that run than anything Durant did previous to joining GS.

Not sure why the argument in here. Both are great, Curry proved he can be greatER without needing Durant. Durant has not proven that, nor will he get the chance to likely. KD put forth incredible finals runs. But the freedom he had has never been given to players of his caliber.

I shudder to think what kind of numbers Jordan or LeBron has if they see the defensive attention, or lack there of, Durant has seen the past 2 playoff runs. Must be nice being Kevin Durant...

mngopher35
09-27-2018, 04:00 PM
There is no doubt in my mind, under the current Warriors system, had you taken out Curry and subbed Durant in the entire time, he would have achieved far more. Like I said, many OKC fans hated Westbrook before Durant made his decision. Really, it irritates me when Durant felt he was hated in OKC when most of that hatred was towards Westbrook. Presti did a great job gathering players but post-Harden, we've made some costly mistakes in not only selecting players but via trade and also, creating a team that supplements the best player on our team, Kevin Durant. The underlying problem was that Westbrook's personality took over Durant's and that led our management into thinking Durant could be the scorer and Westbrook the "mini-LeBron." As I've stated, rumors of Durant being frustrated with OKC wasn't just because of the teammates they had but because management never took a step forward to figure out who should lead the franchise.

In the positionless-state of basketball currently, I believe Durant can be a much better playmaker and visibly so for the Warriors than on OKC. It's got to do with many factors but primarily, Warriors having the supporting players that a guy who dominates the ball would benefit heavily from because the 2nd/3rd best player on the Warriors don't NEED the ball at all to have an impact. Draymond and Klay can go five plays straight without touching the ball and still be elite players. Who in the OKC had any type of impact such as that? It played into Curry's favor a lot. Curry didn't create the Warriors system alone. If you had stuck Monta Ellis on the Warriors still, he'd have ruined any chance of the Warriors progressing. The supporting cast of the Warriors led by Curry are what made this thing a beautiful juggernaut to behold. I wasn't shocked when Durant left. I could see how problematic it was for him as I've watched numerous OKC games where Russell Westbrook would brush Durant aside, force a terrible play, and Durant couldn't do anything but watch. I was shocked he joined the Warriors when there were many teams that would have instantly became title contenders had he joined. Instead, joining the Warriors created one contender: The Warriors. And that is why I dislike Durant.

I think KD could have looked better on GS than on OKC but I don't think GS with KD is better than it was with Curry if they swapped. Ok opinions given on each side. Ya you guys have made mistakes but he still had a decent amount of help/talent on OKC and we saw him being the one to falter in the playoffs multiple times as well. Westy can be the biggest issue in the end but that doesn't negate any sort of responsibility from Durant if he is this all time top 10 or even 20 player. He just wasn't stepping up when needed and after Harden left their wasn't enough playmaking and it just isn't who Durant is.

Durant could be a better playmaker in different situations but he will never truly be the playmaker that a Curry or Lebron or Magic or even Westy are that teams can fully rely on. If he can he hasn't shown that ability at all, even on the Warriors you mention I have shown their numbers without Curry and even KD falls off. Tre has covered some too with the stats he brought up and Currys impact. We agree on why we dislike Durant but don't you see part of the reason why he did that? He didn't want to have that responsibility of leading/carrying (on either end! lol) and instead prefered that perfect role as a beneficiary scorer off the best system in the league even without him (and one designed/based off Curry, they change without him both before and after). Some people may want to assume he can do all of these things but it would appear he did not have that same confidence/faith in himself you guys seemed to given that choice, another reason I think it is ridiculous to just claim he can without evidence when even he won't try.

Most of the evidence points one way statistically, based on their careers/whats actually happened, based on their skill sets they have shown, based on their teams production next to each etc. and I won't just ignore all the evidence saying he isn't that type of playmaker/creator because a few people have the opinion he could do it.

ewing
09-27-2018, 04:10 PM
They did it because they wanted the ball out of his hands because they felt the Warriors were most dangerous with Curry having the ball initiating the offense off screens. That is not my opinion by the way, it's what the Cavs actually said (and I posted the article on it). As for them allowing KD to go one on one, that was because they felt him one on one was a lesser threat than doubling him and leaving Curry or Klay open on the 3pt line.

No, I'm not trying to waste anyone's time, but I am wasting my own by constantly posting evidence only for people to ignore it.

you are trying to waste people time. Curry is a better option to double b/c the spacing is less when a player needs screens. Its easier to force the ball out of his hands. That's not a compliment. On the other hand while KD is harder to double relaying on a guy to hit contested shot after contested shot while everyone else just watches typically is not an optimum offense. Like I said they are different players that present defenses with different options. You seem to be trying to make a comparison but we are dealing with apples and oranges

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 04:14 PM
Durant is the better player probably. But it isn't a mystery that Durant's best playoff numbers came when he went to a team so ****ing loaded, it allowed him way more freedom than any scorer of his caliber has ever had. If people want to deny the fact that Cleveland basically lived with him being able to go 1-1, instead game planning to try and make Curry's life harder knowing GS's offense is more difficult to handle if you let Curry start forcing switches of PnR, I don't know what to tell you. Curry was amazing in his 2015 playoff run, long before Durant ever showed up. Curry was better in that run than anything Durant did previous to joining GS.

Not sure why the argument in here. Both are great, Curry proved he can be greatER without needing Durant. Durant has not proven that, nor will he get the chance to likely. KD put forth incredible finals runs. But the freedom he had has never been given to players of his caliber.

I shudder to think what kind of numbers Jordan or LeBron has if they see the defensive attention, or lack there of, Durant has seen the past 2 playoff runs. Must be nice being Kevin Durant...

Well, no duh. That's what makes the Warriors system gel so well. Any player can come in and be significantly more efficient than their previous teams. I don't know about LeBron since he's a very selective player about his shots and that's why his effficiency might stay consistent on any team but for 95% of the players in the NBA, they likely have their best playoff season under the Warriors as well. That really doesn't prove anything about Durant. He showed up in 2012 vs the Heat in the Finals and has done so in many playoffs series for us as well (when Westbrook was injured, he averaged 33/8/6 vs the Rockets). Ultimately, we ran into a better team in the Grizzlies who commanded the best defense in the league at that time. I'm not seeing where he massively failed in the playoffs that warrants any scrutiny other than the 2016 chokejob vs the Warriors. But at the same time, was that worse than LeBron's meltdown in 2011? Hardly. I would say you're quite unfair with your position and it pains me to say that because Durant was a dick after he left OKC.

valade16
09-27-2018, 04:16 PM
Durant is the better player probably. But it isn't a mystery that Durant's best playoff numbers came when he went to a team so ****ing loaded, it allowed him way more freedom than any scorer of his caliber has ever had. If people want to deny the fact that Cleveland basically lived with him being able to go 1-1, instead game planning to try and make Curry's life harder knowing GS's offense is more difficult to handle if you let Curry start forcing switches of PnR, I don't know what to tell you. Curry was amazing in his 2015 playoff run, long before Durant ever showed up. Curry was better in that run than anything Durant did previous to joining GS.

Not sure why the argument in here. Both are great, Curry proved he can be greatER without needing Durant. Durant has not proven that, nor will he get the chance to likely. KD put forth incredible finals runs. But the freedom he had has never been given to players of his caliber.

I shudder to think what kind of numbers Jordan or LeBron has if they see the defensive attention, or lack there of, Durant has seen the past 2 playoff runs. Must be nice being Kevin Durant...

Here are KD's career playoff stats, 2 years prior to Dubs and with the Dubs:

Career: 28.8 PPG | 32.9 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .575 TS% | .177 WS/48 | 4.8 BPM
Before: 29.0 PPG | 31.5 3PT% | 21.5 PER | .556 TS% | .138 WS/48 | 3.1 BPM
After: 28.8 PPG | 37.9 3PT% | 26.0 PER | .635 TS% | .254 WS/48 | 7.3 BPM

Conclusion? KD didn't have an easier time on the Warriors lol

Here is the same for Curry:

Career: 25.7 PPG | 40.8 3PT% | 22.3 PER | .595 TS% | .179 WS/48 | 6.6 BPM
Before: 26.8 PPG | 41.4 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .605 TS% | .196 WS/48 | 7.7 BPM
After: 26.9 PPG | 40.7 3PT% | 24.8 PER | .626 TS% | .229 WS/48 | 9.0 BPM



Curry's numbers get better with KD, but not by much, KD's numbers skyrocket with the Warriors though. So I'm not sure how people can say that KD didn't have an easier time with the Warriors lol

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:16 PM
you are trying to waste people time. Curry is a better option to double b/c the spacing is less when a player needs screens. Its easier to force the ball out of his hands. That's not a compliment. On the other hand while KD is harder to double relaying on a guy to hit contested shot after contested shot while everyone else just watches typically is not an optimum offense. Like I said they are different players that present defenses with different options.

but it's easier for a defense to try and remove the ball from the best floor spacer ever, the one who initiates the offense for his team, and is the best creator in the group. If you get to pick between that, and the guy who will destroy you in iso, you take the latter option every time. You stand a better chance stopping an offense based off a 1-1 matchup versus letting Curry come off a screen and start the offense with the defense already in scramble mode. After Curry passes the ball, you simply have a man clutch him at all times, and now your defense is still set, working together. GS is so loaded you probably still get killed, but at least you upped your chances by removing their most important offensive player from the play. At least that is the intent...

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:17 PM
Here are KD's career playoff stats, 2 years prior to Dubs and with the Dubs:

Career: 28.8 PPG | 32.9 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .575 TS% | .177 WS/48 | 4.8 BPM
Before: 29.0 PPG | 31.5 3PT% | 21.5 PER | .556 TS% | .138 WS/48 | 3.1 BPM
After: 28.8 PPG | 37.9 3PT% | 26.0 PER | .635 TS% | .254 WS/48 | 7.3 BPM

Conclusion? KD didn't have an easier time on the Warriors lol

Here is the same for Curry:

Career: 25.7 PPG | 40.8 3PT% | 22.3 PER | .595 TS% | .179 WS/48 | 6.6 BPM
Before: 26.8 PPG | 41.4 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .605 TS% | .196 WS/48 | 7.7 BPM
After: 26.9 PPG | 40.7 3PT% | 24.8 PER | .626 TS% | .229 WS/48 | 9.0 BPM



Curry's numbers get better with KD, but not by much, KD's numbers skyrocket with the Warriors though. So I'm not sure how people can say that KD didn't have an easier time with the Warriors lol

it blows my mind. Durant's life became so easy once he joined the Warriors. Giving him credit for upping his game when he had a 71 win team behind his back is ridiculous.

ewing
09-27-2018, 04:18 PM
Here are KD's career playoff stats, 2 years prior to Dubs and with the Dubs:

Career: 28.8 PPG | 32.9 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .575 TS% | .177 WS/48 | 4.8 BPM
Before: 29.0 PPG | 31.5 3PT% | 21.5 PER | .556 TS% | .138 WS/48 | 3.1 BPM
After: 28.8 PPG | 37.9 3PT% | 26.0 PER | .635 TS% | .254 WS/48 | 7.3 BPM

Conclusion? KD didn't have an easier time on the Warriors lol

Here is the same for Curry:

Career: 25.7 PPG | 40.8 3PT% | 22.3 PER | .595 TS% | .179 WS/48 | 6.6 BPM
Before: 26.8 PPG | 41.4 3PT% | 23.6 PER | .605 TS% | .196 WS/48 | 7.7 BPM
After: 26.9 PPG | 40.7 3PT% | 24.8 PER | .626 TS% | .229 WS/48 | 9.0 BPM



Curry's numbers get better with KD, but not by much, KD's numbers skyrocket with the Warriors though. So I'm not sure how people can say that KD didn't have an easier time with the Warriors lol

Who is saying that? Curry would have a harder time if he shared the floor with West, Steven Adams, and Anthony Roberson to.

valade16
09-27-2018, 04:18 PM
you are trying to waste people time. Curry is a better option to double b/c the spacing is less when a player needs screens. Its easier to force the ball out of his hands. That's not a compliment. On the other hand while KD is harder to double relaying on a guy to hit contested shot after contested shot while everyone else just watches typically is not an optimum offense. Like I said they are different players that present defenses with different options. You seem to be trying to make a comparison but we are dealing with apples and oranges

I'm certainly wasting my own time when you ignore anything anyone says.

And I know ISO offense isn't optimum, that's why the Cavs forced the ball out of Curry's hands to give the ball to KD. They'd rather see KD go ISO one on one than have the Warriors offense run through Curry. I'm not comparing at all, I'm telling you what happened (and what the Cavs said happened) and you're going "nuh uh!"

valade16
09-27-2018, 04:19 PM
Who is saying that? Curry would have a harder time if he shared the floor with West, Steven Adams, and Anthony Roberson to.

You are...

And why would KD have a harder time playing with West, Adams and Roberson (not to mention Westy)? Did he face more double teams or something?... (see where I'm going with this)

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:19 PM
No player in the NBA has had more of an offensive load to carry than LeBron did last year so if you're going to penalize him for not playing defense in the regular season while also playing top three in NBA minutes last season, you're just being unreasonable. Wade hasn't been playing defense for ages but I see you always talking highly of him as if he is the second-coming of Jordan.

So what about the year before when he was just about as bad defensively?

I know wade isnít what he used to be, just like LeBron isnít all he used to be either.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:22 PM
Lmfao buying a ounce of weed and selling it on the block isnít investing and please do buy out all 5 restaurants. :laugh2:

Wade is going to limp out this season and itís going to be hilarious! He will wish he can drop 60 like Kobe did his final game.

Kobe > Wade

i guess you would know since you went to jail for it.

Like he limped out of last season right?

Wade wonít score 60 because his last game will be a competitive game in the playoffs that actually means something in terms of the teams season success. Heís not going to be in a game and go out there and jack 50 shots but if he wanted to he could, we all know heís always been the more efficient player.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:27 PM
Well, no duh. That's what makes the Warriors system gel so well. Any player can come in and be significantly more efficient than their previous teams. I don't know about LeBron since he's a very selective player about his shots and that's why his effficiency might stay consistent on any team but for 95% of the players in the NBA, they likely have their best playoff season under the Warriors as well. That really doesn't prove anything about Durant. He showed up in 2012 vs the Heat in the Finals and has done so in many playoffs series for us as well (when Westbrook was injured, he averaged 33/8/6 vs the Rockets). Ultimately, we ran into a better team in the Grizzlies who commanded the best defense in the league at that time. I'm not seeing where he massively failed in the playoffs that warrants any scrutiny other than the 2016 chokejob vs the Warriors. But at the same time, was that worse than LeBron's meltdown in 2011? Hardly. I would say you're quite unfair with your position and it pains me to say that because Durant was a dick after he left OKC.

I am more so addressing those stating Durant's numbers have been superior to Curry's since joining GS. There is a reason for that, and we can't give credit to Durant for simply taking advantage of having defenses shift focus away from him as the primary game plan. Sorry

Durants numbers went way up after he joined the Warriors. There is a reason for that. And it isn't because he became some unstoppable force when he switched teams.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:27 PM
You are...

And why would KD have a harder time playing with West, Adams and Roberson (not to mention Westy)? Did he face more double teams or something?... (see where I'm going with this)

because teams were focused on Durant as the primary defensive game plan.

dun dun dun............

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 04:29 PM
So what about the year before when he was just about as bad defensively?

I know wade isnít what he used to be, just like LeBron isnít all he used to be either.

Outside of Kyrie, yes, he still had to carry a large offensive load. Check the PG's coming off the bench. None were qualified enough to generate the output LeBron could or near it so it made more sense for LeBron to dictate the offense. He played the most MPG that season, FYI. Really, you're being illogical if you think a player in his 14-15th NBA season has anything to prove by playing defense in the regular season. The point is, he doesn't care about the regular season because he's been through enough regular seasons to realize it means nothing for him. Maybe to a guy who's young and unproven but LeBron is a proven NBA player. When you need him to, as we saw in 2016 Finals, he can play elite defense. It's just a matter of whether it makes sense for him to do so.

Wade hasn't played defense for ages. I don't say that to trigger you. I say that because you constantly brag about Wade over the years but I never once hear you say he can't play defense.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:30 PM
G1 was arguably to biggest LeBron hater on this forum but now that heís there he canít stop 2 handing LeBrons meat and may lose his custodian job at 5 restaurants because of it. Itís a shame.

ewing
09-27-2018, 04:31 PM
but it's easier for a defense to try and remove the ball from the best floor spacer ever, the one who initiates the offense for his team, and is the best creator in the group. If you get to pick between that, and the guy who will destroy you in iso, you take the latter option every time. You stand a better chance stopping an offense based off a 1-1 matchup versus letting Curry come off a screen and start the offense with the defense already in scramble mode. After Curry passes the ball, you simply have a man clutch him at all times, and now your defense is still set, working together. GS is so loaded you probably still get killed, but at least you upped your chances by removing their most important offensive player from the play. At least that is the intent...

I agree, my issue with that they are being presented like the Cavs had the same options defensively vs KD in a clear out situation. they didn't

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 04:31 PM
G1 was arguably to biggest LeBron hater on this forum but now that heís there he canít stop 2 handing LeBrons meat and may lose his custodian job at 5 restaurants because of it. Itís a shame.

I believe you do the same. Any player associated in a positive light regarding Wade, you inflate their impact. Any player who is negatively associated with Wade, you downgrade. You're not exactly free of error in that regard. It's like with this Jimmy Butler thing where you tried to argue that he's better than Giannis and don't tell me that has nothing to do with the report stating, "Jimmy Butler prefers Miami."

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:33 PM
Outside of Kyrie, yes, he still had to carry a large offensive load. Check the PG's coming off the bench. None were qualified enough to generate the output LeBron could or near it so it made more sense for LeBron to dictate the offense. He played the most MPG that season, FYI. Really, you're being illogical if you think a player in his 14-15th NBA season has anything to prove by playing defense in the regular season. The point is, he doesn't care about the regular season because he's been through enough regular seasons to realize it means nothing for him. Maybe to a guy who's young and unproven but LeBron is a proven NBA player. When you need him to, as we saw in 2016 Finals, he can play elite defense. It's just a matter of whether it makes sense for him to do so.

Wade hasn't played defense for ages. I don't say that to trigger you. I say that because you constantly brag about Wade over the years but I never once hear you say he can't play defense.

These are bad excuses Flash, he had enough talent around him. Much more than his earlier days in Cleveland and just about as much as he had in Miami due to Wade aging/fighting injuries.

I literally just said Wade isnít the player he used to be but just like LeBrkn he turns up defensively when needed. Doesnít mean heís a great defender still.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:35 PM
I believe you do the same. Any player associated in a positive light regarding Wade, you inflate their impact. Any player who is negatively associated with Wade, you downgrade. You're not exactly free of error in that regard. It's like with this Jimmy Butler thing where you tried to argue that he's better than Giannis and don't tell me that has nothing to do with the report stating, "Jimmy Butler prefers Miami."

Iíve been saying heís top 10 anywhere from 8-10 for awhile now, that didnít just start.

ewing
09-27-2018, 04:36 PM
You are...

And why would KD have a harder time playing with West, Adams and Roberson (not to mention Westy)? Did he face more double teams or something?... (see where I'm going with this)

No. GS has better spacing then OKC did. So what? Curry still got doubled more verse the Cavs b/c it a lot easier to double him the way he is used and is used that way based on his skill set.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 04:36 PM
I agree, my issue with that they are being presented like the Cavs had the same options defensively vs KD in a clear out situation. they don't

Of course not. I think the Cavs thought they knew a way to frustrate Curry, and he was easier to 'remove" from the offense. The Cavs were way outmatched, they needed to try and find a way to disrupt the offense. They choose wrong, obviously. Durant flourished as a result.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 04:40 PM
These are bad excuses Flash, he had enough talent around him. Much more than his earlier days in Cleveland and just about as much as he had in Miami due to Wade aging/fighting injuries.

I literally just said Wade isnít the player he used to be but just like LeBrkn he turns up defensively when needed. Doesnít mean heís a great defender still.

1) NBA has changed a lot since the 08-09 days, buddy. It's an entirely different game. If they are bad excuses, okay, which excuse was bad? Name the players who were supposed to come off the bench and produce offensively for the team.

Here is the list:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2017.html

Their backup PG and third best playmaker was Deron Williams. Deron Williams has not been in an NBA team since that season. So if it's an excuse, you should have no problem supporting your argument, right? I assume you will have a response, soon.

And don't worry, I get that Wade can "turn it on" when needed but if you're going to start saying his defense is bad now, why was it never mentioned when it had to do with Wade? Because I can assure you, you've had more than enough opportunities to mention Wade's poor defense.


Iíve been saying heís top 10 anywhere from 8-10 for awhile now, that didnít just start.

You said he was better than Giannis. That's just a really bad take likely influenced by your induced positivity from finding out Butler is considering the Heat.

IKnowHoops
09-27-2018, 04:42 PM
So now he doesnít play hard lol? Stop with the sorry excuses, the results are what they are. Heís far worse defensively.

Wade was unstoppable, how soon they forget!

When you carry a team completely offensively...

valade16
09-27-2018, 04:43 PM
No. GS has better spacing then OKC did. So what? Curry still got doubled more verse the Cavs b/c it a lot easier to double him the way he is used and is used that way based on his skill set.

You're right, KD wasn't doubled in OKC, silly me :rolleyes:

I'm sure that's part of it, but another part is the Cavs chose to focus on mitigating Steph because they felt he was the more dangerous one by virtue of him initiating the offense, which is what they said.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:51 PM
1) NBA has changed a lot since the 08-09 days, buddy. It's an entirely different game. If they are bad excuses, okay, which excuse was bad? Name the players who were supposed to come off the bench and produce offensively for the team.

Here is the list:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2017.html

Their backup PG and third best playmaker was Deron Williams. Deron Williams has not been in an NBA team since that season. So if it's an excuse, you should have no problem supporting your argument, right? I assume you will have a response, soon.

And don't worry, I get that Wade can "turn it on" when needed but if you're going to start saying his defense is bad now, why was it never mentioned when it had to do with Wade? Because I can assure you, you've had more than enough opportunities to mention Wade's poor defense.



You said he was better than Giannis. That's just a really bad take likely influenced by your induced positivity from finding out Butler is considering the Heat.

Buddy, the facts are the facts. He either plays elite defense or he doesnít. Itís no ďwell he doesnít try anymore because why would heĒ. He doesnít have it in him like he used to to get after it on both ends.

Kyrie took tons of pressure off LeBron offensively, he couldíve used that energy in defense if thatís the only thing holding him back. Was his playmaking help so much better the last 2 years in Miami with an injured Wade for the gap in his defense compared to now to be so huge?

When have I had the opportunity to knock Wades defense? You all are acting like I still claim Wade is the best player in the league, I say all the time he can help a contender and thatís true. I say all the time heís not what he used to be and thatís also true. I mean am I just supposed to go down a list and nitpick every single thing he isnít as good at anymore every time I talk about him?

Iíve been saying Butler is better. His impact is much higher, prove me wrong.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 04:51 PM
G1 was arguably to biggest LeBron hater on this forum but now that heís there he canít stop 2 handing LeBrons meat and may lose his custodian job at 5 restaurants because of it. Itís a shame.

Yes Iím a custodian at 5 restaurants 2 in California and 3 in AZ. Lmfao donít you have a stolen TV to invest in? You could flip it for 200$


I hate most players that arenít Lakers ;) ALWAYS will be Lakers first for me.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:51 PM
When you carry a team completely offensively...

His defense was just about the same when he had Kyrie and Love too, stop the sorry excuses.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:52 PM
Yes Iím a custodian at 5 restaurants 2 in California and 3 in AZ. Lmfao donít you have a stolen TV to invest in? You could flip it for 200$


I hate most players that arenít Lakers ;) ALWAYS will be Lakers first for me.

Does your old plug from your past life have any work for me? Looking for a nice come up here!

valade16
09-27-2018, 04:53 PM
Here's another good article on how the Cavs played the Warriors in the Finals:

https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/09/20/whos-more-valuable-stephen-curry-or-kevin-durant/

Game 1. This is because the Cavaliersí defense (particularly in transition) was a disaster and they memorably allowed Durant dunks on a couple of fast breaks to prevent a Curry 3.

In Game 2, Cleveland cleaned up the very worst of the transition errors, but still had trouble keeping up with the Warriors motion offense. Notably, the Cavs double teamed Curry when Durant set a screen for him, allowing Durant to attack a rotating defender.

Game 3 was a different story. Desperate and on their home court, the Cavs played much tighter, physical defense, which gummed up the Warriorsí flow offense. The Warriors did NOT counter with a tight rotation and a heavy dose of Curry-Durant pick and roll, choosing instead to rely on a deep bench to wear down the Cavaliers. This resulted in Durant having to create much more of the offense through individual excellence, which he did in the crucial last part of the fourth quarter, making up for a so-so rest of game (KD ended up +0 for Game 3 with three turnovers, Curry was +11 with one turnover).

In Game 4, the Cavaliers not only had the greatest playoff shooting game in history, but they started to double team both Curry and Durant on pick and roll actions. Lost in the historic offensive bombing, was the growing pattern of Curry creating easy baskets for Durant when double teamed. Also notable is Curryís bad results in Game 4 came from a dip in his individual shot creation/making.

In Game 5, this led, the Warriors to emphasize the Curry-Durant pick and roll, as we analyzed carefully earlier, forcing the Cavaliers to double team only one of them. The Cavs chose to trap Curry, opening the floor to Durant for nine points and a number of assists.


I Don't know how many people need to say this, how many stats need to show this, or how many times it's analyzed where people conclude the Cavs focused on doubling Curry which opened up easy scoring opportunities for KD before people believe it.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 04:55 PM
Wade will forever be a 17-23 top player ever, and thereís nothing wrong with that.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 04:58 PM
Wade will forever be a 17-23 top player ever, and thereís nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially when you factor in what all heís been able to accomplish and how high heís viewed even with all the costly injuries Over the years.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 04:59 PM
Does your old plug from your past life have any work for me? Looking for a nice come up here!

Hahaah I live in California, thereís dispensaries everywhere. You can have it delivered to your house.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:00 PM
I am more so addressing those stating Durant's numbers have been superior to Curry's since joining GS. There is a reason for that, and we can't give credit to Durant for simply taking advantage of having defenses shift focus away from him as the primary game plan. Sorry

Durants numbers went way up after he joined the Warriors. There is a reason for that. And it isn't because he became some unstoppable force when he switched teams.

Is there a player who wouldn't benefit, though? I mean, it was a guarantee KD would be more efficient playing under the Warriors. That in-itself is just evidence of how great the Warriors are. It also has to do with which team he's coming from. Don't get me wrong, Westbrook is an elite player but outside of him, we couldn't find any legitimate offense we could depend on outside of KD+Westbrook. If Paul George goes to the Warriors, he'd see a significant improvement as well. That's just how it goes. It doesn't have to be singular with KD only.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:01 PM
These are bad excuses Flash, he had enough talent around him. Much more than his earlier days in Cleveland and just about as much as he had in Miami due to Wade aging/fighting injuries.

I literally just said Wade isnít the player he used to be but just like LeBrkn he turns up defensively when needed. Doesnít mean heís a great defender still.


Buddy, the facts are the facts. He either plays elite defense or he doesnít. Itís no ďwell he doesnít try anymore because why would heĒ. He doesnít have it in him like he used to to get after it on both ends.

Kyrie took tons of pressure off LeBron offensively, he couldíve used that energy in defense if thatís the only thing holding him back. Was his playmaking help so much better the last 2 years in Miami with an injured Wade for the gap in his defense compared to now to be so huge?

When have I had the opportunity to knock Wades defense? You all are acting like I still claim Wade is the best player in the league, I say all the time he can help a contender and thatís true. I say all the time heís not what he used to be and thatís also true. I mean am I just supposed to go down a list and nitpick every single thing he isnít as good at anymore every time I talk about him?

Iíve been saying Butler is better. His impact is much higher, prove me wrong.

Lol, and what if Kyrie isn't on the court at the same time or Kyrie is having an off game? If your sole argument is that two players is enough to carry a team offensively, you've essentially proved my point. You said he had enough talent around him. I asked you to name them and you backtrack and simply say, "Kyrie is enough." No, it isn't. Not when the league has tranitioned into an offense-generated league where you need to push the pace and get up quality shots.

I provided context as to why the defense isn't there. That's all. You're trying to make it seem as if LeBron can't play defense. Can't and won't are two different things.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:04 PM
Lol, and what if Kyrie isn't on the court at the same time or Kyrie is having an off game? If your sole argument is that two players is enough to carry a team offensively, you've essentially proved my point. You said he had enough talent around him. I asked you to name them and you backtrack and simply say, "Kyrie is enough." No, it isn't. Not when the league has tranitioned into an offense-generated league where you need to push the pace and get up quality shots.

I provided context as to why the defense isn't there. That's all. You're trying to make it seem as if LeBron can't play defense. Can't and won't are two different things.

He had one of the best offensive players in the game and then a perfect stretch 4 in Love, both all stars. He had the exact team he wanted around him.

He canít play defense like he used to, he can turn it on when needed. Maybe not as good as he used to be when he turns it on but he canít play defense over the course of a season like he used to.

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 05:04 PM
Is there a player who wouldn't benefit, though? I mean, it was a guarantee KD would be more efficient playing under the Warriors. That in-itself is just evidence of how great the Warriors are. It also has to do with which team he's coming from. Don't get me wrong, Westbrook is an elite player but outside of him, we couldn't find any legitimate offense we could depend on outside of KD+Westbrook. If Paul George goes to the Warriors, he'd see a significant improvement as well. That's just how it goes. It doesn't have to be singular with KD only.

oh I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. I am pointing out to the people that are just tossing Curry and Durant's stats on GS out there, with the attempt to show Durant has been the better of the 2. No, he hasn't really. He is simply enjoying the freedom provided by playing with that roster, while Curry is the one other teams are attempting to mitigate.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:05 PM
Hahaah I live in California, thereís dispensaries everywhere. You can have it delivered to your house.

I want co-custodial duties with you and Iíll move there right now.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:06 PM
Buddy, the facts are the facts. He either plays elite defense or he doesnít. Itís no ďwell he doesnít try anymore because why would heĒ. He doesnít have it in him like he used to to get after it on both ends.

Kyrie took tons of pressure off LeBron offensively, he couldíve used that energy in defense if thatís the only thing holding him back. Was his playmaking help so much better the last 2 years in Miami with an injured Wade for the gap in his defense compared to now to be so huge?

When have I had the opportunity to knock Wades defense? You all are acting like I still claim Wade is the best player in the league, I say all the time he can help a contender and thatís true. I say all the time heís not what he used to be and thatís also true. I mean am I just supposed to go down a list and nitpick every single thing he isnít as good at anymore every time I talk about him?

Iíve been saying Butler is better. His impact is much higher, prove me wrong.

Giannis is simply a better player. Difficult to measure impact when Butler has been on better teams (could you imagine Giannis and Towns on the same team?). But Giannis is a better rebounder, scorer, creates more mismatches, far more efficient player, and doesn't get injured. Butler's a slightly better defender (he's regressed a bit from his Chicago days) and shooter. I'd bet the majority here would take Giannis today and definitely, 100% would take Giannis for the upcoming future.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:08 PM
He had one of the best offensive players in the game and then a perfect stretch 4 in Love, both all stars. He had the exact team he wanted around him.

He canít play defense like he used to, he can turn it on when needed. Maybe not as good as he used to be when he turns it on but he canít play defense over the course of a season like he used to.

Love doesn't and can't get anyone else shots. You think J.R., Korver, Jefferson, Frye, etc., were pulling up in front of defenders and knocking down threes? C'mon man, LeBron generated that offense because outside of Kyrie, no one was capable of pushing that offense on an elite level that is required for a championship contender. It remains to be seen if Love can still be an elite offensive player but I doubt it. Dude has lost too much weight so he's not getting the easy baskets below the rim anymore.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:10 PM
Giannis is simply a better player. Difficult to measure impact when Butler has been on better teams (could you imagine Giannis and Towns on the same team?). But Giannis is a better rebounder, scorer, creates more mismatches, far more efficient player, and doesn't get injured. Butler's a slightly better defender (he's regressed a bit from his Chicago days) and shooter. I'd bet the majority here would take Giannis today and definitely, 100% would take Giannis for the upcoming future.

Duh they would take him for the future, I would too. That Bulls team he took to the 8th seed had more talent than Milwaukee who missed the playoffs that year?

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:12 PM
Love doesn't and can't get anyone else shots. You think J.R., Korver, Jefferson, Frye, etc., were pulling up in front of defenders and knocking down threes? C'mon man, LeBron generated that offense because outside of Kyrie, no one was capable of pushing that offense on an elite level that is required for a championship contender. It remains to be seen if Love can still be an elite offensive player but I doubt it. Dude has lost too much weight so he's not getting the easy baskets below the rim anymore.

Whatís the excuse going to be this year for LeBron? Just go ahead and tell me now so I know what to expect. Still not enough help even though for some crazy reason some of you think they can beat the Celtics?

Hawkeye15
09-27-2018, 05:12 PM
Whatís the excuse going to be this year for LeBron? Just go ahead and tell me now so I know what to expect. Still not enough help even though for some crazy reason some of you think they can beat the Celtics?

excuse for what?

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:14 PM
excuse for what?

LeBron not being as good defensively now as he was when he was arguably the DPOY in Miami.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:14 PM
Whatís the excuse going to be this year for LeBron? Just go ahead and tell me now so I know what to expect. Still not enough help even though for some crazy reason some of you think they can beat the Celtics?

What excuse? Lmao, you just said they can't beat the Celtics so why would there be an excuse? We already know LeBron won't be playing defense until the game requires it and we damn sure know this Lakers team likely gets bounced in the 2nd round. There is no excuse needed when expectations are quite low for them.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 05:15 PM
I want co-custodial duties with you and Iíll move there right now.

Lmfao if you want you can be my driver, those 5h drives from the restaurants each month are tiring. Even if I get to listen to Sports Radio the whole way.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:17 PM
Duh they would take him for the future, I would too. That Bulls team he took to the 8th seed had more talent than Milwaukee who missed the playoffs that year?

What are you talking about, bro? You admit that the Bulls had more talent than Milwaukee when Butler took them to the 8th seed? Also, no duh, Giannis only became a superstar this season. I'm talking about this season and you're going off about some random season a few years ago in which Butler hit his physical prime and Giannis was still blooming. Not sure where you're going with this. Do you have anything to support Butler being more impactful this season or is that just something you thought sounded good.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:18 PM
What excuse? Lmao, you just said they can't beat the Celtics so why would there be an excuse? We already know LeBron won't be playing defense until the game requires it and we damn sure know this Lakers team likely gets bounced in the 2nd round. There is no excuse needed when expectations are quite low for them.

Werenít you one of the guys claiming they could be better than the Celtics? Iím talking about the excuse for LeBron defense this year. If he didnít have enough talent 2 years ago to play defense but now all of a sudden he has enough talent around him to beat the 2nd best team in the league then surely heíll play much better defense.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:21 PM
Werenít you one of the guys claiming they could be better than the Celtics? Iím talking about the excuse for LeBron defense this year. If he didnít have enough talent 2 years ago to play defense but now all of a sudden he has enough talent around him to beat the 2nd best team in the league then surely heíll play much better defense.

I mean, you can check the vote history and clearly see my name voting for the Celtics so I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:22 PM
What are you talking about, bro? You admit that the Bulls had more talent than Milwaukee when Butler took them to the 8th seed? Also, no duh, Giannis only became a superstar this season. I'm talking about this season and you're going off about some random season a few years ago in which Butler hit his physical prime and Giannis was still blooming. Not sure where you're going with this. Do you have anything to support Butler being more impactful this season or is that just something you thought sounded good.

8.3 net rating compared to 3.7

I expect his numbers to go back up to his last year in Chicago days once he gets out of this bad situation in Minny so his impact will be even greater.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:22 PM
I mean, you can check the vote history and clearly see my name voting for the Celtics so I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

You voted Celtics but weíre talking otherwise in your post to make I seem like they could.

nastynice
09-27-2018, 05:22 PM
I don't disagree anything you said but that doesn't change my point. I'm not debating impact. I have more respect for talent and skill as a total package when I view how good players are historically. Gravity, as you call it, just has no place in a discussion of who is the best IMO.



Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

That's part of Curry's game tho. It's like how putting randy moss being on the field automatically opens up the middle of the field, there's always gonna be a safety cheating that way. How much weight you wanna put on gravity, I guess we can have all our opinions, but I don't see how you can just disregard it.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:24 PM
8.3 net rating compared to 3.7

I expect his numbers to go back up to his last year in Chicago days once he gets out of this bad situation in Minny so his impact will be even greater.

:D

I knew you were gonna use that. I mean, if that is your only indication of impact (net rating is simply a measurement so there's definitely a ton of variables and it's not used to measure impact entirely), can you explain Dwyane Wade's -5.2 impact for the Heat last season?

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:25 PM
You voted Celtics but weíre talking otherwise in your post to make I seem like they could.

But I voted for the Celtics so there's your answer.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:34 PM
8.3 net rating compared to 3.7

I expect his numbers to go back up to his last year in Chicago days once he gets out of this bad situation in Minny so his impact will be even greater.

Upon further research, last season was Butler's second highest net rating. His highest was his first NBA season (in which he barely played). So really, this was Butler's best season in terms of net rating. Bruh, did you look at someone else's net rating?

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:42 PM
:D

I knew you were gonna use that. I mean, if that is your only indication of impact (net rating is simply a measurement so there's definitely a ton of variables and it's not used to measure impact entirely), can you explain Dwyane Wade's -5.2 impact for the Heat last season?

Yea tough turnaround being traded mid-season but should be better this season now that heís going through training camp with the group and has a full season. His net rating led the Cavs when he was there when it came to players consistently in the rotation.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:44 PM
But I voted for the Celtics so there's your answer.

Then speak on it in the comments donít sugar coat things as if the Lakers are better if theyíre not. Itís like me saying to you LeBron is a better defender than Kawhi and then turning to G1 and saying Kawhi is a better defender than LeBron.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:45 PM
Upon further research, last season was Butler's second highest net rating. His highest was his first NBA season (in which he barely played). So really, this was Butler's best season in terms of net rating. Bruh, did you look at someone else's net rating?

I looked at more numbers than just net rating, bruh. I think his numbers and impact both go up next season. All I know is the impact is clearly higher than Giannis.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:53 PM
Then speak on it in the comments donít sugar coat things as if the Lakers are better if theyíre not. Itís like me saying to you LeBron is a better defender than Kawhi and then turning to G1 and saying Kawhi is a better defender than LeBron.

I already did. Did you even bother reading?

"Looks like Celtics but way too early to tell."

I can't predict the future but what I can do is offer my opinion and though Celtics are clearly the better team thus far, it would not surprise me if Lakers become the better team by season's end. That doesn't mean I would put my money on it. Anything can happen and it wouldn't be abnormal at all if Lakers ended up being a top team in the NBA. It's like if there was a boxing match and I said, "I think Tyson would win but I would not be surprised if Buster Douglas won." It doesn't have to be an absolute decision because it's impossible to predict.


I looked at more numbers than just net rating, bruh. I think his numbers and impact both go up next season. All I know is the impact is clearly higher than Giannis.

I asked you what made you say Butler had a higher impact than Giannis and all you did was say his net rating was higher. You then said you expect his impact to improve to his days in Chicago when his net rating (which is the sole argument you used) last year was the highest of his career by far. So I'm just confused on what correlation you find with the two and if the net rating isn't sufficient, please offer other evidence of "impact" you are attributing to.

FlashBolt
09-27-2018, 05:54 PM
I looked at more numbers than just net rating, bruh. I think his numbers and impact both go up next season. All I know is the impact is clearly higher than Giannis.

Lol. Okay. I like the fake positive Wade03 better, tbh. Any chance he can show up later?

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:58 PM
Lol. Okay. I like the fake positive Wade03 better, tbh. Any chance he can show up later?

Great evening sir how are thou on this great day the good lord has blessed you with?

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 05:59 PM
When thou Jimmy Butler who will be dubbed Biscayne Buckets when he gets to Miami is actually on the Heat we are coming for necks!!! God bless!!!

ewing
09-27-2018, 06:14 PM
Here's another good article on how the Cavs played the Warriors in the Finals:

https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/09/20/whos-more-valuable-stephen-curry-or-kevin-durant/

Game 1. This is because the Cavaliersí defense (particularly in transition) was a disaster and they memorably allowed Durant dunks on a couple of fast breaks to prevent a Curry 3.

In Game 2, Cleveland cleaned up the very worst of the transition errors, but still had trouble keeping up with the Warriors motion offense. Notably, the Cavs double teamed Curry when Durant set a screen for him, allowing Durant to attack a rotating defender.

Game 3 was a different story. Desperate and on their home court, the Cavs played much tighter, physical defense, which gummed up the Warriorsí flow offense. The Warriors did NOT counter with a tight rotation and a heavy dose of Curry-Durant pick and roll, choosing instead to rely on a deep bench to wear down the Cavaliers. This resulted in Durant having to create much more of the offense through individual excellence, which he did in the crucial last part of the fourth quarter, making up for a so-so rest of game (KD ended up +0 for Game 3 with three turnovers, Curry was +11 with one turnover).

In Game 4, the Cavaliers not only had the greatest playoff shooting game in history, but they started to double team both Curry and Durant on pick and roll actions. Lost in the historic offensive bombing, was the growing pattern of Curry creating easy baskets for Durant when double teamed. Also notable is Curryís bad results in Game 4 came from a dip in his individual shot creation/making.

In Game 5, this led, the Warriors to emphasize the Curry-Durant pick and roll, as we analyzed carefully earlier, forcing the Cavaliers to double team only one of them. The Cavs chose to trap Curry, opening the floor to Durant for nine points and a number of assists.


I Don't know how many people need to say this, how many stats need to show this, or how many times it's analyzed where people conclude the Cavs focused on doubling Curry which opened up easy scoring opportunities for KD before people believe it.

I honestly don't think you know what you are saying. You have repeatedly made it sound like KD either didn't get doubled in isolation spots b/c he was respected less or it was Curry was getting doubled which opened up these opportunities. Neither is true. Most of the quotes here are about screen roll play.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:15 PM
Then speak on it in the comments donít sugar coat things as if the Lakers are better if theyíre not. Itís like me saying to you LeBron is a better defender than Kawhi and then turning to G1 and saying Kawhi is a better defender than LeBron.

Lmao you just canít get enough of me coming in and around your mouth ;)


I voted for Celtics too soooooo :p

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:19 PM
Lol. Okay. I like the fake positive Wade03 better, tbh. Any chance he can show up later?

Yea, me too, even if itís fake and insincere, better than douche bag Wade lol

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 06:24 PM
Yea, me too, even if itís fake and insincere, better than douche bag Wade lol

Name calling is not what the lord brought you here for, look in the mirror.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 06:25 PM
Lmao you just canít get enough of me coming in and around your mouth ;)


I voted for Celtics too soooooo :p

If you did then you literally just did it so you could say that, the good lord doesnít condone this behavior. Learn from this and better yourself. God bless you!

valade16
09-27-2018, 06:34 PM
I honestly don't think you know what you are saying. You have repeatedly made it sound like KD either didn't get doubled in isolation opportunities b/c he was respected less as a scorer or Curry was getting doubled which opened up these opportunities. Neither is true. The quotes here are about screen roll play.

I know exactly what I'm saying, you seem to be constantly mischaracterizing what I'm trying to say. I am not saying that KD wasn't doubled because he was respected less as a scorer than Curry, I'm saying he wasn't doubled because the Cavs were more afraid of the Warriors offense being initiated by a Curry pick and roll than a KD ISO. So they got the ball out of Curry's hands and lived with the results of KD one on one. I believe it because the Cavs flat out said so.

I believe that Curry was far more often doubled in the Finals than KD. I believe that because the video and statistics say so.

Not to mention, the idea that the Cavs decided to double Curry because KD is so good against doubles he'd just beat them anyway is pretty much malarkey:

https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/06/16/why-the-curry-durant-pick-and-roll-is-overrated/

Kevin Durant Is Not Good At Beating Double Teams

In Game 4, The Cavaliers introduced a new strategy to double-team blitz Curry and Durant when they were the ball-handler in pick and roll. And they continued this strategy in Game 5, and it continued to throw off Kevin Durant.

Itís a dirty little secret that Durant has trouble with double teams. The Warriors exploited this famously in the improbable comeback in 2016 WCF Game 6 versus Oklahoma City:

So, in this context, Curry is annihilating the Cavaliers blitz with everyone who even fakes a screen with him. Would Durant be good on the short roll? Of course, heíll be even better. So itís a very good play, but it makes particular sense in this context, where Durant canít beat the blitz as the handler, so let Curry beat the blitz and Durant can roll. Two guys are getting blitzed, so in the same play, the Cavaliers canít blitz both of them!

Golden States beat all kinds of defensive coverage with the play: blitz, hard hedge, going over, under.


Here's an article from 2016 and the OKC/Warriors series where KD talks about getting double (or in this case triple teamed) and his turnover problems as a result of so much defensive attention:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/breakdown-kevin-durant-must-limit-turnovers-in-order-for-thunder-to-upset-warriors/

Durant's five turnovers led to eight Warriors points in Game 1 and the Thunder survived. His eight turnovers in Game 2 led to 12 points and the Thunder perished. The majority of these turnovers have come from Durant rushing through his progressions like a quarterback hearing footsteps in the pocket. He knows the Warriors are going to send multiple defenders at him.

"They were sending three guys," Durant said after the Game 2 loss when asked why his shots were so limited in the second half. "I was trying to make the right pass. I was turning the ball over playing the crowd. So maybe I just got to shoot over three people."

The Warriors have been consistently swarming Durant when he's in playmaking situations and it's worked out for them. These turnovers off his passes through the first two games look like the work of someone uncomfortable on the court.



Both of those articles (along with the other one I posted earlier) have multiple videos showing all of this.


I've been saying the same thing the entire time, you just don't believe it. Which fine, certainly you're right. But I have actual proof in the form of video and stats to back me up. You have nothing but you're own opinion. I'll take the former over the latter.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:40 PM
Name calling is not what the lord brought you here for, look in the mirror.

I do every morning, I just like fake positive Wade more lol

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:42 PM
If you did then you literally just did it so you could say that, the good lord doesnít condone this behavior. Learn from this and better yourself. God bless you!

:laugh2:

I do enough good things every year to balance it all out. I work as a Regional Manager but Iím an Executive Chef CCE ACF and every year on thanksgiving I make 100 full on Thanksgiving dinners and pass them out to the homeless. If youíre around, Iíll save you a dinner my good friend :)

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 06:43 PM
I do every morning, I just like fake positive Wade more lol

May the good lord be with you as you are coming in and around my mouth my friend!

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 06:44 PM
:laugh2:

I do enough good things every year to balance it all out. I work as a Regional Manager but Iím an Executive Chef CCE ACF and everybody a thanksgiving I make 100 full on Thx Giving Dinners and pass them out to the homeless. If youíre around, Iíll save you a dinner my good friend :)

Neighbor, may I get in on this charity? I make enough money in a month to pay for your entire states thankgivings and Christmas and mortgages.

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:53 PM
Neighbor, may I get in on this charity? I make enough money in a month to pay for your entire states thankgivings and Christmas and mortgages.

-_-

Sure you totally can!

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 06:54 PM
May the good lord be with you as you are coming in and around my mouth my friend!

Youíre a dirty whore.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 07:02 PM
Youíre a dirty whore.

Lord we have a sinner!!!

Saddletramp
09-27-2018, 10:12 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. You guys need to **** off already.

WaDe03
09-27-2018, 10:16 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. You guys need to **** off already.

Sending prayers your way neighbor!!!

Redrum187
09-27-2018, 10:22 PM
Durant won't ever pass Dirk Nowitzki. Curry has a chance to. Curry > Durant

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 10:26 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. You guys need to **** off already.

:laugh2:

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 10:26 PM
Durant won't ever pass Dirk Nowitzki. Curry has a chance to. Curry > Durant

No

Redrum187
09-27-2018, 10:29 PM
No

I'll say Curry's peak is easily more superior, but Durant was good for a longer period of time. The fact Durant is a vagina solidifies himself out of the Dirk/Malone/Barkley/Garnett tier. Curry had an insane 3-4 years and a good handful of years with the possibility of being the best player on a stacked Warriors team. I'm not sure Curry gets on Dirk's level, but I don't think it's impossible. What do you disagree with bro? :P

GREATNESS ONE
09-27-2018, 11:07 PM
Welcome back brother!

ewing
09-28-2018, 02:07 AM
:laugh2:

I do enough good things every year to balance it all out. I work as a Regional Manager but Iím an Executive Chef CCE ACF and every year on thanksgiving I make 100 full on Thanksgiving dinners and pass them out to the homeless. If youíre around, Iíll save you a dinner my good friend :)

I heard you were assistant to the regional manager

IKnowHoops
09-28-2018, 02:29 AM
For my own sake, I tried to put you on ignore so we can avoid getting off-topic. It's obvious you and I never get anywhere when we have a discussion. Valade, at least be respectful enough to not quote me so I don't get any notifications from you. Can't ignore a mod but it should be your duty to clean the forums up and I believe this is a fair proposal.

😂

IKnowHoops
09-28-2018, 02:31 AM
Durant won't ever pass Dirk Nowitzki. Curry has a chance to. Curry > Durant

Durant passed Dirk in year 6

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 02:34 AM
I heard you were assistant to the regional manager

Assistant to the assistant :)

Jamiecballer
09-28-2018, 07:41 AM
Steve Nash and other PG's might be more skilled than big men like Shaq though with that thought process. That doesn't mean their impact was higher at all so if that is what you are saying I think you are more off base.

I dunno it seems like you prefer to pick and choose what skills matter instead of talking about their actual on court impacts then? Like taking a high difficulty shot is not the same as having an entire defense shift, that is a ridiculous comparison I just can't get behind. I have no idea how you rank but if it ignores the players actual impact through their careers I just think you are off base.We are not on the same page. It's all good.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Chronz
09-28-2018, 11:28 AM
Durant won't ever pass Dirk Nowitzki. Curry has a chance to. Curry > Durant

Agreed

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 12:42 PM
Agreed

Wonít ever pass Dirk? Lol címon

valade16
09-28-2018, 01:02 PM
For reference, here's a couple lists from 2018 (all I could quickly find):

SLAM:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/23623/2018/05/slam-top-100-nba-players-all-time-full-list/

Has KD at #13 (up from 22 in 2016), Curry at #19 (up from 23 in 2016), and Dirk at 27 (down from #17 in 2016).

This one from Hoops Habit:

https://hoopshabit.com/2018/09/21/nba-50-greatest-players-time/26/

Has Curry at #19, KD at #24 and Dirk at #26.

Here's one from a Sports Retriever that lists the 20 best NBA players ever:

http://www.sportsretriever.com/basketball/ranking-20-greatest-players-nba-history/2/

Which has Curry listed at #19 but no KD or Dirk.

However I've never heard of that website nor do I particularly trust the list since both Pippen and Stockton made Top 20.

Here's one from 2017 from CBS Sports:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/

It has KD #24, Curry #19 and Dirk #17.


Bottom line: For there supposedly being NO ARGUMENT that Curry is higher ranked now or will ever be higher ranked, it seems a remarkable amount of lists have Curry ranked higher.

WaDe03
09-28-2018, 02:15 PM
For reference, here's a couple lists from 2018 (all I could quickly find):

SLAM:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/23623/2018/05/slam-top-100-nba-players-all-time-full-list/

Has KD at #13 (up from 22 in 2016), Curry at #19 (up from 23 in 2016), and Dirk at 27 (down from #17 in 2016).

This one from Hoops Habit:

https://hoopshabit.com/2018/09/21/nba-50-greatest-players-time/26/

Has Curry at #19, KD at #24 and Dirk at #26.

Here's one from a Sports Retriever that lists the 20 best NBA players ever:

http://www.sportsretriever.com/basketball/ranking-20-greatest-players-nba-history/2/

Which has Curry listed at #19 but no KD or Dirk.

However I've never heard of that website nor do I particularly trust the list since both Pippen and Stockton made Top 20.

Here's one from 2017 from CBS Sports:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/

It has KD #24, Curry #19 and Dirk #17.


Bottom line: For there supposedly being NO ARGUMENT that Curry is higher ranked now or will ever be higher ranked, it seems a remarkable amount of lists have Curry ranked higher.

All those lists are garbage.

FlashBolt
09-28-2018, 03:28 PM
All those lists are garbage.

Yeah, my impression as well. As soon as I saw Zeke over Dirk, Wade, Durant, Garnett, you just have to know it's just some idiot writing something because he's getting paid a salary to not sit around his desk.

nastynice
09-28-2018, 04:02 PM
Yeah, my impression as well. As soon as I saw Zeke over Dirk, Wade, Durant, Garnett, you just have to know it's just some idiot writing something because he's getting paid a salary to not sit around his desk.

Isiah Thomas?

Dude was legit, they won 2 back to back.

valade16
09-28-2018, 04:04 PM
Of course Zeke is overrated on all-time lists, but this is about all-time lists, not best player. You don't get to have it both ways. You don't get to say "everyone will have KD higher than Curry" and then say "lists are stupid for having X player so high" when that player is routinely listed too high.

valade16
09-28-2018, 04:06 PM
All those lists are garbage.

http://www.interbasket.net/news/19115/2016/02/the-full-list-of-espns-100-nbas-greatest-players-of-all-time-nbarank/

ESPN had KD #22 and Curry #23 in 2016.

https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Ranker.com (where people can vote on list positions) has KD at #31 and Steph at #34.


I think you may want to revise your statement to "all lists are garbage", which is generally how people view any list but their own.

valade16
09-28-2018, 04:12 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/09/michael-jordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest

Here's the Sports Illustrated list from 2016, which is perhaps the worst of all. KD is #43 and Steph Curry is #31.


So that's SLAM, ESPN, SI, and CBS. So my question is, if we shouldn't use those lists because they're garbage, what list should we be using when talking about where people will rank all-time?

And if the answer is none because they all suck, then what does the question even matter where they end up all-time (or where they are now) if you don't care about the lists because they suck?

Hawkeye15
09-28-2018, 04:30 PM
https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/09/michael-jordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest

Here's the Sports Illustrated list from 2016, which is perhaps the worst of all. KD is #43 and Steph Curry is #31.


So that's SLAM, ESPN, SI, and CBS. So my question is, if we shouldn't use those lists because they're garbage, what list should we be using when talking about where people will rank all-time?

And if the answer is none because they all suck, then what does the question even matter where they end up all-time (or where they are now) if you don't care about the lists because they suck?

we should use my list. It's the right one.

Redrum187
09-28-2018, 05:54 PM
Wonít ever pass Dirk? Lol címon

I mean, Dirk has an incredible playoff resume though. He's had no all star in their prime to play with (Nash was pre-prime, Kidd was post-prime) but has been able to beat players higher on the all time list than he is.

LeBron James - Dwyane Wade - Chris Bosh
Kobe Bryant - Pau Gasol - Lamar Odom - Andrew Bynum
Russell Westbrook - James Harden - Kevin Durant - Serge Ibaka
Tim Duncan - Manu Ginobili - Tony Parker

Dirk took out 3 of those squads in his 2011 championship run and beat my man Timmy previously. The most prestigious thing Durant has done postseason is lose a 3-1 lead over a team he later joined and "earned" finals MVP. I don't think that puts him in the same league as Dirk's post resume.

Stephen Curry proved he could lead his team and win it all WITH or WITHOUT Kevin Durant... Kevin Durant hasn't proven he can do it without an unprecedented stacked squad.

Curry is easily better for me when we put things into context.

FlashBolt
09-28-2018, 06:04 PM
I mean, Dirk has an incredible playoff resume though. He's had no all star in their prime to play with (Nash was pre-prime, Kidd was post-prime) but has been able to beat players higher on the all time list than he is.

LeBron James - Dwyane Wade - Chris Bosh
Kobe Bryant - Pau Gasol - Lamar Odom - Andrew Bynum
Russell Westbrook - James Harden - Kevin Durant - Serge Ibaka
Tim Duncan - Manu Ginobili - Tony Parker

Dirk took out 3 of those squads in his 2011 championship run and beat my man Timmy previously. The most prestigious thing Durant has done postseason is lose a 3-1 lead over a team he later joined and "earned" finals MVP. I don't think that puts him in the same league as Dirk's post resume.

Stephen Curry proved he could lead his team and win it all WITH or WITHOUT Kevin Durant... Kevin Durant hasn't proven he can do it without an unprecedented stacked squad.

Curry is easily better for me when we put things into context.

Not the best example considering Steph has a pedestrian NBA Finals and lost the Finals MVP to Andre Iguodala.

nastynice
09-28-2018, 07:42 PM
Not the best example considering Steph has a pedestrian NBA Finals and lost the Finals MVP to Andre Iguodala.

He was the clear leader and best player on our team that finals. Do you disagree?

valade16
09-28-2018, 08:10 PM
He was the clear leader and best player on our team that finals. Do you disagree?

It is interesting that when you bring up MVPs people dismiss them because of how unreliable it is as a measure of who was truly the best in a given year but apparently FMVP are the gospel truth.

Redrum187
09-28-2018, 08:13 PM
Not the best example considering Steph has a pedestrian NBA Finals and lost the Finals MVP to Andre Iguodala.

His "pedestrian" NBA Finals stats clearly distinguished himself from the rest of the warriors who had worse than "pedestrian" stats in comparison. Iggy played great D, he was a great glue guy, and being 100% honest... I was glad Curry didn't win FMVP. But I recognize my not wanting Curry to win FMVP was more to do with being a hater than it is being an objective basketball fan who genuinely thought Iggy was more valuable than Curry. I mean, I can be a hater provided I put down my hater hat and be objective when the time warrants it. I don't care who the media made FMVP, we all know it should have either been Curry or LeBron.

FlashBolt
09-28-2018, 10:27 PM
His "pedestrian" NBA Finals stats clearly distinguished himself from the rest of the warriors who had worse than "pedestrian" stats in comparison. Iggy played great D, he was a great glue guy, and being 100% honest... I was glad Curry didn't win FMVP. But I recognize my not wanting Curry to win FMVP was more to do with being a hater than it is being an objective basketball fan who genuinely thought Iggy was more valuable than Curry. I mean, I can be a hater provided I put down my hater hat and be objective when the time warrants it. I don't care who the media made FMVP, we all know it should have either been Curry or LeBron.

No, it should have gone to the best performer in the winning team and that was Iguodala. He was the one guarding LeBron and the only one who could do so. Iguodala deserved it. Timely shots were made by Iguodala every time. There is no doubt in my mind, and those who voted, that at that time, no one was saying Curry deserved it.

tredigs
09-28-2018, 10:33 PM
His "pedestrian" NBA Finals stats clearly distinguished himself from the rest of the warriors who had worse than "pedestrian" stats in comparison. Iggy played great D, he was a great glue guy, and being 100% honest... I was glad Curry didn't win FMVP. But I recognize my not wanting Curry to win FMVP was more to do with being a hater than it is being an objective basketball fan who genuinely thought Iggy was more valuable than Curry. I mean, I can be a hater provided I put down my hater hat and be objective when the time warrants it. I don't care who the media made FMVP, we all know it should have either been Curry or LeBron.
Curry tied the record for most points scored in a Finals 4th quarter in that series (Jordan at 17), twice. But there's still a dull narrative from the dunces that he struggles in high octane situations without a bevy of help. Again, that was his first Finals. It has been made abundantly clear to me that very few people understand just how dominant he is. They all get he's great, they just don't understand that he's why the Warriors are who they are. I'm good with that.

IKnowHoops
09-28-2018, 10:39 PM
Curry tied the record for most points scored in a Finals 4th quarter in that series (Jordan at 17), twice. But there's still a dull narrative from the dunces that he struggles in high octane situations without a bevy of help. Again, that was his first Finals. It has been made abundantly clear to me that very few people understand just how dominant he is. They all get he's great, they just don't understand that he's why the Warriors are who they are. I'm good with that.

He and Durant need to split after this season for real.

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 10:40 PM
He and Durant need to split after this season for real.

Pretty much, Durant come to LA.

tredigs
09-28-2018, 10:44 PM
He and Durant need to split after this season for real.

Yeah KD is gone I think/hope. Loving his time here but time for a new look

IKnowHoops
09-28-2018, 10:54 PM
Pretty much, Durant come to LA.

Iíd rather get AD at this point and See KD go elsewhere to form his superteam...like in Philly. Then get KL in the offseason still and roll with that.

AD/McGee
Kuzma/Beasley
Bron/SVI
KL/Hart
Rondo/Lonzo

Ring

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 10:56 PM
Yeah KD is gone I think/hope. Loving his time here but time for a new look

Yea like ďNewĒ Champions because you wouldnít be Back2Back without KD

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 10:57 PM
Iíd rather get AD at this point and See KD go elsewhere to form his superteam...like in Philly. Then get KL in the offseason still and roll with that.

AD/McGee
Kuzma/Beasley
Bron/SVI
KL/Hart
Rondo/Lonzo

Ring

AD will be traded for, KD will be signed. :)

tredigs
09-28-2018, 11:01 PM
For reference, here's a couple lists from 2018 (all I could quickly find):

SLAM:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/23623/2018/05/slam-top-100-nba-players-all-time-full-list/

Has KD at #13 (up from 22 in 2016), Curry at #19 (up from 23 in 2016), and Dirk at 27 (down from #17 in 2016).

This one from Hoops Habit:

https://hoopshabit.com/2018/09/21/nba-50-greatest-players-time/26/

Has Curry at #19, KD at #24 and Dirk at #26.

Here's one from a Sports Retriever that lists the 20 best NBA players ever:

http://www.sportsretriever.com/basketball/ranking-20-greatest-players-nba-history/2/

Which has Curry listed at #19 but no KD or Dirk.

However I've never heard of that website nor do I particularly trust the list since both Pippen and Stockton made Top 20.

Here's one from 2017 from CBS Sports:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/

It has KD #24, Curry #19 and Dirk #17.


Bottom line: For there supposedly being NO ARGUMENT that Curry is higher ranked now or will ever be higher ranked, it seems a remarkable amount of lists have Curry ranked higher.

Interesting. I'd have KD 18-23 and Curry 20-25. Ranges for me.

tredigs
09-28-2018, 11:04 PM
Yea like ďNewĒ Champions because you wouldnít be Back2Back without KD

Whatever you say Laker fanboy. Crying about star talent? Very cute my guy.

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 11:24 PM
Whatever you say Laker fanboy. Crying about star talent? Very cute my guy.

Can you just be respectful to a grown *** man for 5minutes? I mean, not sure what your deal is... but carry on little man

GREATNESS ONE
09-28-2018, 11:26 PM
Never Mind, just do you big boy, make yourself big by belittling people on a online sport forum, you will never meet.

nastynice
09-28-2018, 11:42 PM
No, it should have gone to the best performer in the winning team and that was Iguodala. He was the one guarding LeBron and the only one who could do so. Iguodala deserved it. Timely shots were made by Iguodala every time. There is no doubt in my mind, and those who voted, that at that time, no one was saying Curry deserved it.

That's cuz everyone was saying lebron deserved it, but no one was saying iggy over curry, lol, that was just cuz he was the one having any success slowing lebron down, and people wanted to give it to lebron, so it was some weird reconciliation thing or something, lmao, who knows!

nastynice
09-28-2018, 11:45 PM
Yeah KD is gone I think/hope. Loving his time here but time for a new look

Lol, bro you've lost it!

Curry and KD are priority 1 and 2. Everything else comes after.

FlashBolt
09-28-2018, 11:47 PM
That's cuz everyone was saying lebron deserved it, but no one was saying iggy over curry, lol, that was just cuz he was the one having any success slowing lebron down, and people wanted to give it to lebron, so it was some weird reconciliation thing or something, lmao, who knows!

Is that why not a single qualified voter voted for Curry and gave it to Iguodala? Hindsight, yes, Curry's stats look better but the impact in the game? No question, Iguodala was the better performer. He made the timely shots and covered LeBron for 37 minutes a game. It's funny that LeBron's defense gets hammered down like it's an anvil but when Iguodala plays great defense, people want to all of a sudden ignore how valuable it is. Of all the voters, every single one of them knows Curry is the better player. Yet, none voted for Curry and 7/11 voted for Iguodala. Did they hate Curry or have an agenda against him? No. And I vividly remembre most fans (of basketball) acknowledging that Iguodala deserved it. I guess it hurts Curry's rep for you guys so you gotta defend him but sorry, man, it's the truth. And you guys should THANK Iguodala because I'm not sure you win without him. Who's guarding Bron if not Iguodala? Barnes? Klay? I mean, let's be honest here.

tredigs
09-28-2018, 11:59 PM
Lol, bro you've lost it!

Curry and KD are priority 1 and 2. Everything else comes after.

Huh? It's Curry Green Klay brother, always has been. #2 is Green not KD. For many reasons.

Redrum187
09-29-2018, 12:00 AM
Is that why not a single qualified voter voted for Curry and gave it to Iguodala? Hindsight, yes, Curry's stats look better but the impact in the game? No question, Iguodala was the better performer. He made the timely shots and covered LeBron for 37 minutes a game. It's funny that LeBron's defense gets hammered down like it's an anvil but when Iguodala plays great defense, people want to all of a sudden ignore how valuable it is. Of all the voters, every single one of them knows Curry is the better player. Yet, none voted for Curry and 7/11 voted for Iguodala. Did they hate Curry or have an agenda against him? No. And I vividly remembre most fans (of basketball) acknowledging that Iguodala deserved it. I guess it hurts Curry's rep for you guys so you gotta defend him but sorry, man, it's the truth. And you guys should THANK Iguodala because I'm not sure you win without him. Who's guarding Bron if not Iguodala? Barnes? Klay? I mean, let's be honest here.

Indeed, lets be honest... Is it more plausible that the Warriors win without Iggy or is it more plausible they win without Curry?

I understand Iggy was a great defender, but in that series, Curry was still the main engine. I am no GSW fan, but I am a fan of the game. Without Iggy, the Warriors probably would have still won (though it would have been a closer series). Without Curry, I don't think they have a chance in hell.

FlashBolt
09-29-2018, 12:05 AM
Indeed, lets be honest... Is it more plausible that the Warriors win without Iggy or is it more plausible they win without Curry?

I understand Iggy was a great defender, but in that series, Curry was still the main engine. I am no GSW fan, but I am a fan of the game. Without Iggy, the Warriors probably would have still won (though it would have been a closer series). Without Curry, I don't think they have a chance in hell.

I've stated Curry is the better player. There's no need to debate that. I'd take Curry over Iguodala. But that doesn't change the fact that Iguodala simply contributed more than his fair share and in many's eyes, more than Curry. It's entirely possible that Iguodala simply played much better than he is capable of under normal circumstances. 7/11 voted for Iguodala and 4/11 voted for LeBron. That's a pretty wide consensus of voting there. And the only reason Iguodala won was because they didn't want to break away from the tradition of winning FMVP in a winning team or else it would be a landslide unanimous decision for LeBron. So 11/11 and none voted for Curry. Is that a conspiracy, agenda, or dislike for Curry? I doubt it. The media loves Curry.

Redrum187
09-29-2018, 12:29 AM
I've stated Curry is the better player. There's no need to debate that. I'd take Curry over Iguodala. But that doesn't change the fact that Iguodala simply contributed more than his fair share and in many's eyes, more than Curry. It's entirely possible that Iguodala simply played much better than he is capable of under normal circumstances. 7/11 voted for Iguodala and 4/11 voted for LeBron. That's a pretty wide consensus of voting there. And the only reason Iguodala won was because they didn't want to break away from the tradition of winning FMVP in a winning team or else it would be a landslide unanimous decision for LeBron. So 11/11 and none voted for Curry. Is that a conspiracy, agenda, or dislike for Curry? I doubt it. The media loves Curry.

If the cavs won and 11 out of 11 gave the award to Matthew Dellavedova instead of LeBron, it still doesn't really mean Delly was the "most valuable player". You would put all your stock into what those 11 people said, and that's your right... but people who love/understand basketball will know he would be undeserving of the award.

I also wasn't trying to say "Curry is the more superior player" in comparison to Iggy... that SHOULD be a given. I'm saying, considering their impact and statistics, the Warriors could more easily overcome the loss of Iggy than they could have without Curry. Or let me put it another way... The Warriors needed Curry's "pedestrian" stats more than they needed Iggy's defense and timely shots in the finals series.

Saddletramp
09-29-2018, 12:30 AM
They almost lost to the Rockets this past season because Iguadala went down. If CP3 wouldnít have been injured, it looked like a Rockets win. Curryís better no doubt, but that was really telling of their team synergy.

Redrum187
09-29-2018, 12:38 AM
Humor this crazy hypothetical scenario for me please:

Lets say there is a time machine right now and someone is going to use it to go into time to assassinate either Curry or Iggy before game 1 of the Finals. If the Warriors win, you will win $500 billion dollars and you will guarantee no starving child will ever go hungry ever again. Hell, the US national debt is completely balanced if the Warriors win as well.

Knowing the stats/impact both players contributed at this present time, would you hope they assassinate Curry or Iggy? Those arguing that while Curry is the superior player, Iggy was truly the most valuable player that series should EASILY hope Curry is the one assassinated (Iggy's impact was more than Curry's supposedly). Which choice gives you the greatest opportunity to win? Explain.

GREATNESS ONE
09-29-2018, 12:57 AM
Huh? It's Curry Green Klay brother, always has been. #2 is Green not KD. For many reasons.

Yikes. And you think you know what youíre talking about...

tredigs
09-29-2018, 02:33 AM
Yikes. And you think you know what youíre talking about...

70+ win Championship winning team buddy. KD? Nothing to do with it. WAKE UP IDIOTS>

More-Than-Most
09-29-2018, 06:09 AM
70+ win Championship winning team buddy. KD? Nothing to do with it. WAKE UP IDIOTS>

70 win team up 3-1 with 2 games at home and got smashed had to run to the 2nd best player in the league to beat the best player in the league so curry wouldnt get the choke label every finals going forward : )

FlashBolt
09-29-2018, 09:46 AM
If the cavs won and 11 out of 11 gave the award to Matthew Dellavedova instead of LeBron, it still doesn't really mean Delly was the "most valuable player". You would put all your stock into what those 11 people said, and that's your right... but people who love/understand basketball will know he would be undeserving of the award.

I also wasn't trying to say "Curry is the more superior player" in comparison to Iggy... that SHOULD be a given. I'm saying, considering their impact and statistics, the Warriors could more easily overcome the loss of Iggy than they could have without Curry. Or let me put it another way... The Warriors needed Curry's "pedestrian" stats more than they needed Iggy's defense and timely shots in the finals series.

If Matthew Delly won 11/11 votes, then he clearly did something right. let me ask you something, do you think the media voters hate Curry? Because there is no other logical explanation. They saw what everyone else saw. 11/11 can't be wrong unless you are implying they rigged it. Which is it? Are they liars or are 11/11 of them watching something else? check social media or other forum sites. I can guarantee you the sentiment was Andre Iguodala deserved that Finals MVP and Curry did not. It's easy years later to forget that and simply look at Curry's stats to say he was better but watching the games, Andre Iguodala was clearly the most valuable player.

cmellofan15
09-29-2018, 10:00 AM
70 win team up 3-1 with 2 games at home and got smashed had to run to the 2nd best player in the league to beat the best player in the league so curry wouldnt get the choke label every finals going forward : )

I mean youíre literally just proving his point with this because we all know whoís suspension allowed the Cavs to win that series......

Jamiecballer
09-29-2018, 10:13 AM
70+ win Championship winning team buddy. KD? Nothing to do with it. WAKE UP IDIOTS>I'm going to have to double check the record books but I'm pretty sure that is not true.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

nastynice
09-29-2018, 12:59 PM
Is that why not a single qualified voter voted for Curry and gave it to Iguodala? Hindsight, yes, Curry's stats look better but the impact in the game? No question, Iguodala was the better performer. He made the timely shots and covered LeBron for 37 minutes a game. It's funny that LeBron's defense gets hammered down like it's an anvil but when Iguodala plays great defense, people want to all of a sudden ignore how valuable it is. Of all the voters, every single one of them knows Curry is the better player. Yet, none voted for Curry and 7/11 voted for Iguodala. Did they hate Curry or have an agenda against him? No. And I vividly remembre most fans (of basketball) acknowledging that Iguodala deserved it. I guess it hurts Curry's rep for you guys so you gotta defend him but sorry, man, it's the truth. And you guys should THANK Iguodala because I'm not sure you win without him. Who's guarding Bron if not Iguodala? Barnes? Klay? I mean, let's be honest here.

Haha, iggy wasn't the better performer,curry was, rather easily.

It doesn't hurt Curry's rep at all. All the accolade obsessed lebron fan boys still don't get, lol, this one right here, he built diff. That's why he is the most irreplaceable on our team

nastynice
09-29-2018, 01:02 PM
I've stated Curry is the better player. There's no need to debate that. I'd take Curry over Iguodala. But that doesn't change the fact that Iguodala simply contributed more than his fair share and in many's eyes, more than Curry. It's entirely possible that Iguodala simply played much better than he is capable of under normal circumstances. 7/11 voted for Iguodala and 4/11 voted for LeBron. That's a pretty wide consensus of voting there. And the only reason Iguodala won was because they didn't want to break away from the tradition of winning FMVP in a winning team or else it would be a landslide unanimous decision for LeBron. So 11/11 and none voted for Curry. Is that a conspiracy, agenda, or dislike for Curry? I doubt it. The media loves Curry.

You just hammered curry for not getting fmvp, then just explained why he didn't, even tho he was the best warrior that series

Awesome! :cool:

nastynice
09-29-2018, 01:05 PM
If Matthew Delly won 11/11 votes, then he clearly did something right. let me ask you something, do you think the media voters hate Curry? Because there is no other logical explanation. They saw what everyone else saw. 11/11 can't be wrong unless you are implying they rigged it. Which is it? Are they liars or are 11/11 of them watching something else? check social media or other forum sites. I can guarantee you the sentiment was Andre Iguodala deserved that Finals MVP and Curry did not. It's easy years later to forget that and simply look at Curry's stats to say he was better but watching the games, Andre Iguodala was clearly the most valuable player.

They were just on the LeBron pity parade like you 😏

nastynice
09-29-2018, 01:06 PM
70+ win Championship winning team buddy. KD? Nothing to do with it. WAKE UP IDIOTS>

To me, 16-1 trumps everything

73 is kinda meaningless tbh

GREATNESS ONE
09-29-2018, 01:09 PM
I'm going to have to double check the record books but I'm pretty sure that is not true.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Lol got em

Chronz
09-29-2018, 01:22 PM
Wonít ever pass Dirk? Lol címon
Stop hating

Chronz
09-29-2018, 01:53 PM
Yea like ďNewĒ Champions because you wouldnít be Back2Back without KD

Why wouldn't they?

GREATNESS ONE
09-29-2018, 03:13 PM
Stop hating

wait what? lmao who's hating? I am just calling it like I see it, and KD will pass Dirk when it's all said and done.

GREATNESS ONE
09-29-2018, 03:14 PM
Why wouldn't they?

maybe or maybe not but they wouldn't have wiped the floor with everyone. KD is still a top 3 player in the world, no matter how much you hate him lol

Saddletramp
09-29-2018, 04:09 PM
I mean youíre literally just proving his point with this because we all know whoís suspension allowed the Cavs to win that series......

He has suspended for one game. What about the other two?

GREATNESS ONE
09-29-2018, 04:30 PM
He has suspended for one game. What about the other two?

Lol

Chronz
09-29-2018, 04:59 PM
wait what? lmao who's hating? I am just calling it like I see it, and KD will pass Dirk when it's all said and done.
Only if he re grows his balls. Do you have any idea how hard that sounds?

Chronz
09-29-2018, 05:00 PM
maybe or maybe not but they wouldn't have wiped the floor with everyone. KD is still a top 3 player in the world, no matter how much you hate him lol
That's different. They definitely don't sleep walk to titles without kd

More-Than-Most
09-29-2018, 08:45 PM
That's different. They definitely don't sleep walk to titles without kd

They didnt? If curry didnt get exposed and pin pointed on because of his defense along with green not being suspended they win that series 4-1 or 4-2. People look at Durant as a ***** which he is because he took the easy road but ignore the fact that the 3 guys for the warriors were begging this dude to join them because they wanted an even easier road and knew they got exposed that year because of currys defense. That is just as bad as what durant did... You cant be that sick of a team and run out out of fear and not only get a top 2 player in the world to stop the best player in the world but take that top 2 player from the 2nd best team in the west to further make your road easier.

2 players that are top 3 players couldnt deal with being constantly exposed in big moments so they partnered up.

nastynice
09-29-2018, 08:56 PM
They didnt? If curry didnt get exposed and pin pointed on because of his defense along with green not being suspended they win that series 4-1 or 4-2. People look at Durant as a ***** which he is because he took the easy road but ignore the fact that the 3 guys for the warriors were begging this dude to join them because they wanted an even easier road and knew they got exposed that year because of currys defense. That is just as bad as what durant did... You cant be that sick of a team and run out out of fear and not only get a top 2 player in the world to stop the best player in the world but take that top 2 player from the 2nd best team in the west to further make your road easier.

2 players that are top 3 players couldnt deal with being constantly exposed in big moments so they partnered up.

Well it's more than just partnering up, LeBron partnered up with the 3rd best player in the league and they only got 2 of 4. We got 2 of 2 here, and the river of tears is only getting deeper, it's really about the way both sides complement one another in the curry kd situation. Thing is, I got this funny feeling that year 3 is when it truly clicks

More-Than-Most
09-29-2018, 09:08 PM
Well it's more than just partnering up, LeBron partnered up with the 3rd best player in the league and they only got 2 of 4. We got 2 of 2 here, and the river of tears is only getting deeper, it's really about the way both sides complement one another in the curry kd situation. Thing is, I got this funny feeling that year 3 is when it truly clicks

throwing 3 guys together with no depth and 1 guy fitting perfectly into a team with 3 other players that fit what he does perfectly is not nearly the same and lebron didnt destroy his only real competition at the time he actually went head to head against it... Understand the situations because they are far far different.

Chronz
09-29-2018, 11:30 PM
They didnt? If curry didnt get exposed and pin pointed on because of his defense along with green not being suspended they win that series 4-1 or 4-2. People look at Durant as a ***** which he is because he took the easy road but ignore the fact that the 3 guys for the warriors were begging this dude to join them because they wanted an even easier road and knew they got exposed that year because of currys defense. That is just as bad as what durant did... You cant be that sick of a team and run out out of fear and not only get a top 2 player in the world to stop the best player in the world but take that top 2 player from the 2nd best team in the west to further make your road easier.

2 players that are top 3 players couldnt deal with being constantly exposed in big moments so they partnered up.
True. Kd was surprised by how they accepted him with open arms.

nastynice
09-30-2018, 12:14 AM
throwing 3 guys together with no depth and 1 guy fitting perfectly into a team with 3 other players that fit what he does perfectly is not nearly the same and lebron didnt destroy his only real competition at the time he actually went head to head against it... Understand the situations because they are far far different.

Yea, didn't I just say they were different..? What lebron did was partner up. What we did in golden state is much different

More-Than-Most
09-30-2018, 01:30 AM
Me personally i think people need to let go of the durant stuff when it comes to individual rankings on the all time list... He is better than curry and will go down as a top 5 player... he made a ***** move but in this sport because of the stupid media and dumbass nba opinions from players rings is the end all be all so if i am a great player like durant and I see there is an easy championship out there id do just what he did knowing 20 years from now people will only see his stats and his 5 plus rings and ignore all the downsides he ever had like they did kobe/Jordan/etc etc etc... Very few know jordan had issues in the playoffs before pippen... very few realize how inefficient kobe was throughout some year... because Rings. Durant and Curry are ******* but they went the smart route....


Let logic dictate like it should...Ask yourself 2 questions

If you put curry on the worst team in basketball does he make that team a playoff team? No

If you put Durant on the worst team in basketball does he make that team a playoff team? Yes

Curry was focused in on and exposed because of his defense and it hurt his offense... If he is on a team without these great players the teams would do the same thing to him...Durant you cant do that too because of his size and overall skill.

Curry is a great player and he will be an all time great but we should be more worried about if he is better all time than CP3 because that would actually be a discussion and it should be if people look at longevity and ignore the stupid ring ********.

More-Than-Most
09-30-2018, 01:38 AM
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_chris_paul.htm


Curry vs CP3.... funny how close their playoff performances are and how 1 is shamed for 0 rings.



http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_kevin_durant.htm

curry vs durant... Isnt even close.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_kevin_durant.htm

nastynice
09-30-2018, 05:38 AM
Me personally i think people need to let go of the durant stuff when it comes to individual rankings on the all time list... He is better than curry and will go down as a top 5 player... .

Haha, you're all over the place. Dude got a LONG way to go before being in a top 5 convo. A long way to go.

He is a scorer unlike we've ever seen, but top 5? There are some big names on that list..

Heediot
09-30-2018, 05:45 AM
Me personally i think people need to let go of the durant stuff when it comes to individual rankings on the all time list... He is better than curry and will go down as a top 5 player...

No way in hell is he going to be a top 5 goat.

Top 5 goats are guys that have memorable title runs as the lead guy. This GS team is too stacked for any one to get credit IMO.

and or Top 5 goat are focal points of dominant playoff/historic regular season offenses.

and or they are elite 2 way players. Durant is good two way player but never made an all defense team.

He could be argued to be a top 3-4 wing of all time in terms of Individual talent. Top 3-5 pure scorer.

He's a good individual talent, over-rated in terms of team play IMO. The guys who create chemistry and teammates feed off them, are guys with good feel/vision and can think the game ahead. This is what holds him back for me a bit from my take.

ewing
09-30-2018, 07:20 AM
How does Curry have more gravity then Oliver Miller?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chronz
09-30-2018, 10:54 AM
How does Curry have more gravity then Oliver Miller?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mass is irrelevant to gravity

cmellofan15
09-30-2018, 12:41 PM
He has suspended for one game. What about the other two?

As a rockets fan you should know exactly how important one game is in an intense playoff series, youíve seen plenty of them.

ewing
10-01-2018, 06:20 AM
Mass is irrelevant to gravity

Junk science

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 11:01 AM
Me personally i think people need to let go of the durant stuff when it comes to individual rankings on the all time list... He is better than curry and will go down as a top 5 player... he made a ***** move but in this sport because of the stupid media and dumbass nba opinions from players rings is the end all be all so if i am a great player like durant and I see there is an easy championship out there id do just what he did knowing 20 years from now people will only see his stats and his 5 plus rings and ignore all the downsides he ever had like they did kobe/Jordan/etc etc etc... Very few know jordan had issues in the playoffs before pippen... very few realize how inefficient kobe was throughout some year... because Rings. Durant and Curry are ******* but they went the smart route....


Let logic dictate like it should...Ask yourself 2 questions

If you put curry on the worst team in basketball does he make that team a playoff team? No

If you put Durant on the worst team in basketball does he make that team a playoff team? Yes

Curry was focused in on and exposed because of his defense and it hurt his offense... If he is on a team without these great players the teams would do the same thing to him...Durant you cant do that too because of his size and overall skill.

Curry is a great player and he will be an all time great but we should be more worried about if he is better all time than CP3 because that would actually be a discussion and it should be if people look at longevity and ignore the stupid ring ********.

uh........no. I never will. His 2 finals MVP's mean nearly nothing to me, nor do his titles. Never before have we seen what he did happen. It absolutely needs to be factored in when talking about all timers.

Now, if Curry/Klay, or some combo goes down or signs elsewhere, and Durant is the best player on a contender and has to carry a team to a finals win, then we can bring this back up. But seeing 1-1 coverage and having zero stress or challenges in his way enroute to an easy finals win does nothing for his legacy to me.

Now, I will agree with you if it becomes the norm for superstar, generational talents, to run to a team with their tail between their legs so they can ride the chip train. Then, when his complete vag move, becomes the norm, I guess we adjust the context. But, I don't see a dynasty being given a max contract slot again ever happening, so.....

FlashBolt
10-01-2018, 11:42 AM
uh........no. I never will. His 2 finals MVP's mean nearly nothing to me, nor do his titles. Never before have we seen what he did happen. It absolutely needs to be factored in when talking about all timers.

Now, if Curry/Klay, or some combo goes down or signs elsewhere, and Durant is the best player on a contender and has to carry a team to a finals win, then we can bring this back up. But seeing 1-1 coverage and having zero stress or challenges in his way enroute to an easy finals win does nothing for his legacy to me.

Now, I will agree with you if it becomes the norm for superstar, generational talents, to run to a team with their tail between their legs so they can ride the chip train. Then, when his complete vag move, becomes the norm, I guess we adjust the context. But, I don't see a dynasty being given a max contract slot again ever happening, so.....

So where does Curry's 2 Finals win with Durant get him?

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 12:06 PM
So where does Curry's 2 Finals win with Durant get him?

not as much as if he had a lesser team, but his finals win, and 2 MVPs prior to Durant being there are huge for his legacy. Look, when we talk about Bill Russell's 11 rings, what comes up?

Playing on a team that is basically unfair to the league WILL hamper your individual legacy. But, I can also guarantee you that Bill Russell wouldn't trade places with Wilt Chamberlain.

Compound that with the context of how Durant was able to get those chips/MVP's, and it just doesn't hold the weight many other chips or finals MVPs do. Not every ring, or MVP, or Finals MVP is the same. Can anyone tell me they weight Leonard's finals MVP the same as Wade's for example?

Trust me, Durant doesn't care about his individual legacy, or at least he never put much thought into it. He clearly cares more about winning and fit. So harping from a soap box, which is what fans do, doesn't matter in the end. However, many just don't respect Durant's decision, his results, or his legacy. Just the way it is, he did it to himself.

valade16
10-01-2018, 12:06 PM
Indeed, lets be honest... Is it more plausible that the Warriors win without Iggy or is it more plausible they win without Curry?

I understand Iggy was a great defender, but in that series, Curry was still the main engine. I am no GSW fan, but I am a fan of the game. Without Iggy, the Warriors probably would have still won (though it would have been a closer series). Without Curry, I don't think they have a chance in hell.

It's funny because people are praising Iggy's defense for being so sensational and yet the guy he guarded did so good he nearly won FMVP despite being on the losing team lol. It's just weird that we have it both ways in that series. LeBron was amazing and did all he could but also Iggy was amazing and shut LeBron down to the point where he deserved FMVP.

Iggy vastly outplayed his expected worth, and that's why he won MVP. They gave the award to him because of narrative. How could they have in good conscience given the award to Curry when LeBron outplayed him?


And people claiming that the voters didn't hate Curry and were being objective. OK, nobody hated Shaq in 2001 and AI won MVP over him. Sometimes people get MVP votes wrong. Nobody hated Shaq or Kobe when Nash won his 2nd (or heck, even his 1st) MVPs either.

FlashBolt
10-01-2018, 12:29 PM
not as much as if he had a lesser team, but his finals win, and 2 MVPs prior to Durant being there are huge for his legacy. Look, when we talk about Bill Russell's 11 rings, what comes up?

Playing on a team that is basically unfair to the league WILL hamper your individual legacy. But, I can also guarantee you that Bill Russell wouldn't trade places with Wilt Chamberlain.

Compound that with the context of how Durant was able to get those chips/MVP's, and it just doesn't hold the weight many other chips or finals MVPs do. Not every ring, or MVP, or Finals MVP is the same. Can anyone tell me they weight Leonard's finals MVP the same as Wade's for example?

Trust me, Durant doesn't care about his individual legacy, or at least he never put much thought into it. He clearly cares more about winning and fit. So harping from a soap box, which is what fans do, doesn't matter in the end. However, many just don't respect Durant's decision, his results, or his legacy. Just the way it is, he did it to himself.

One ring where most people would say he played poorly by his own standard (meaning, if LeBron played that way, he would get crucified even more), and one more MVP than Durant. But Curry didn't really become a household name until 2015 whereas Durant has been for many years even before 2015. Durant's got numerous scoring titles and has simply achieved more at a younger age than Curry did. If you're going to discredit Durant for being on a historically great team, then why does Curry playing below his own standard get so much credit for beating a team that had Matthew Delly as their second best player?

WaDe03
10-01-2018, 01:08 PM
For KD and curry the last 2 rings and the ring they win this year are irrelevant. Curryís first ring is **** too.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 01:19 PM
For KD and curry the last 2 rings and the ring they win this year are irrelevant. Curryís first ring is **** too.

:laugh: Yeah! They're too dominant! Doesn't count!

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 01:51 PM
One ring where most people would say he played poorly by his own standard (meaning, if LeBron played that way, he would get crucified even more), and one more MVP than Durant. But Curry didn't really become a household name until 2015 whereas Durant has been for many years even before 2015. Durant's got numerous scoring titles and has simply achieved more at a younger age than Curry did. If you're going to discredit Durant for being on a historically great team, then why does Curry playing below his own standard get so much credit for beating a team that had Matthew Delly as their second best player?

Curry's legacy was also limited by Durant's decision, make no mistake. But he was already there, on a lesser (albeit incredible) team. And won a chip, and won 2 MVP's. Durant simply jumped on the chip express. That matters....to me. It doesn't need to matter to you. But a lot of people will forever hold Durant's decision against him. Hell people hold LeBron's against him and he had to go yet again be the beast of the NBA for his team to win. Durant didn't need to do ****, they were ready made and proven before he even showed up.

WaDe03
10-01-2018, 02:13 PM
:laugh: Yeah! They're too dominant! Doesn't count!

Pretty much, put LeBron on those teams instead of KD and everyone would be *****ing that theyíre not relevant too.

Curryís 1st counts for a little something but it was ****.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 02:14 PM
Curry's legacy was also limited by Durant's decision, make no mistake. But he was already there, on a lesser (albeit incredible) team. And won a chip, and won 2 MVP's. Durant simply jumped on the chip express. That matters....to me. It doesn't need to matter to you. But a lot of people will forever hold Durant's decision against him. Hell people hold LeBron's against him and he had to go yet again be the beast of the NBA for his team to win. Durant didn't need to do ****, they were ready made and proven before he even showed up.

Actually no, Lebron could have simply played at a respectable level in the 2011 Finals and they would have won. He **** the bed, and that is why they lost.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 02:26 PM
Actually no, Lebron could have simply played at a respectable level in the 2011 Finals and they would have won. He **** the bed, and that is why they lost.

yep. I am referring to the 2 title runs my man. You already know that though. We have allllllllll been down this road before. LeBron left via FA, joined 2 "stars", and those 2 stars after year 1 were far from stars. LeBron carried those rosters to 2 chips. Durant, did nothing of the sort.

2011 holds LeBron back from catching Jordan. Durant's decision, so far, holds him back from being top 15. But, like LeBron, Durant's story isn't fully written yet. I just find it hard to believe he all of a sudden grows his balls back.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 02:32 PM
yep. I am referring to the 2 title runs my man. You already know that though. We have allllllllll been down this road before. LeBron left via FA, joined 2 "stars", and those 2 stars after year 1 were far from stars. LeBron carried those rosters to 2 chips. Durant, did nothing of the sort.

2011 holds LeBron back from catching Jordan. Durant's decision, so far, holds him back from being top 15. But, like LeBron, Durant's story isn't fully written yet. I just find it hard to believe he all of a sudden grows his balls back.

Durant was dominant dude. On both roads. And they got pushed to a game 7 in the Western Conference Finals where they were down double digits on the road in the 2nd half to an incredible team. The Finals was a **** show because the East is a disaster and they fielded a dog **** Finals team. That's not on the Warriors or KD.
Talk about the deck being stacked and the narrative BS all you want, those are the facts. He was absolutely huge for them in taking down the previous title at the very least. And again, he has never given up on his team mid series. That distinction is solely for Lebron. The alpha *****.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 02:38 PM
Durant was dominant dude. On both roads. And they got pushed to a game 7 in the Western Conference Finals where they were down double digits on the road in the 2nd half to an incredible team. The Finals was a **** show because the East is a disaster and they fielded a dog **** Finals team. That's not on the Warriors or KD.
Talk about the deck being stacked and the narrative BS all you want, those are the facts. He was absolutely huge for them in taking down the previous title at the very least. And again, he has never given up on his team mid series. That distinction is solely for Lebron. The alpha *****.

as I have pointed out many times recently, I wonder what MJ/LeBron would look like with mostly 1-1 matchups come playoffs. If we want to compare LeBron and Durant's roads to their chips, LeBron's just kills Durant's. On all fronts.

The worst part of Durant's decision, is we likely got robbed of seeing a top 5 talent to ever play reach the heights we want from superstars.

There is a very big difference in how the 2 decisions played out, never mind the large differences going in.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 02:52 PM
as I have pointed out many times recently, I wonder what MJ/LeBron would look like with mostly 1-1 matchups come playoffs. If we want to compare LeBron and Durant's roads to their chips, LeBron's just kills Durant's. On all fronts.

The worst part of Durant's decision, is we likely got robbed of seeing a top 5 talent to ever play reach the heights we want from superstars.

There is a very big difference in how the 2 decisions played out, never mind the large differences going in.
Lebron 1 v 1? We've seen it dozens of times? Spurs Finals. The first Finals against the Warriors? The entire gameplan was let Lebron shoot and stay home on the perimeter threats. He got his volume on low efficiency (39/31/69 slash against the Warriors in their first Finals meeting... a slash that many said deserved a Finals MVP for him in a 6 game losing effort.... this is the narrative we're dealing with with Lebron stans and the media as a whole), and both teams smashed him.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 03:07 PM
Lebron 1 v 1? We've seen it dozens of times? Spurs Finals. The first Finals against the Warriors? The entire gameplan was let Lebron shoot and stay home on the perimeter threats. He got his volume on low efficiency (39/31/69 slash against the Warriors in their first Finals meeting... a slash that many said deserved a Finals MVP for him in a 6 game losing effort.... this is the narrative we're dealing with with Lebron stans and the media as a whole), and both teams smashed him.

we watched different finals....the moment James puts the ball on the deck, defense collapses. All help going his way. Imagine doing that when Curry/Klay are waiting on the perimeter. I tend to believe LeBron has a lot more rings with those guys the recipients. Or, teams would have loaded up on Curry (like they did the last 2 finals), and LeBron doesn't see help when the ball hits the deck, in which case teams get to watch a dunk display for 4 games and LeBron's numbers reach even higher levels.

You just used a 22 year old LeBron, and a LeBron with JR Smith as his 2nd option, to argue?

tredigs
10-01-2018, 03:25 PM
we watched different finals....the moment James puts the ball on the deck, defense collapses. All help going his way. Imagine doing that when Curry/Klay are waiting on the perimeter. I tend to believe LeBron has a lot more rings with those guys the recipients. Or, teams would have loaded up on Curry (like they did the last 2 finals), and LeBron doesn't see help when the ball hits the deck, in which case teams get to watch a dunk display for 4 games and LeBron's numbers reach even higher levels.

You just used a 22 year old LeBron, and a LeBron with JR Smith as his 2nd option, to argue?

I mean I've watched that Finals in full multiple times (all their Finals actually... can't get a full picture at a sportsbook which is where I tend to watch it live). Lebron is only collapsed when he's literally in the paint and going for a layup. Watch part of the games again on youtube if you have time. It's 90% single coverage. Same gameplan the Spurs famously had on him initially. Give 'Bron all the space in the world and let him shoot. Both worked. He **** the bed. Unfortunately it's less effective now because his shot is more pure, but that wasn't the case at his peak.

valade16
10-01-2018, 03:30 PM
we watched different finals....the moment James puts the ball on the deck, defense collapses. All help going his way. Imagine doing that when Curry/Klay are waiting on the perimeter. I tend to believe LeBron has a lot more rings with those guys the recipients. Or, teams would have loaded up on Curry (like they did the last 2 finals), and LeBron doesn't see help when the ball hits the deck, in which case teams get to watch a dunk display for 4 games and LeBron's numbers reach even higher levels.

You just used a 22 year old LeBron, and a LeBron with JR Smith as his 2nd option, to argue?

This ironically is starting to look like the AI debate about his low efficiency. If you look at LeBron's teammates during the 2015 Finals, who should he have deferred to scoring wise? Here was the 3PT% of his teammates:

Shumpert 32%
J. Jones 30.8%
Smith 29.4%
Delly 23.1%

Here was his team's TS%

Mozgov .631
Thompson .528
J. Jones .482
Bron .477
Smith .424
Shumpert .397
Delly .389


Yeah, Bron had trouble scoring efficiently, as did his entire team minus Mozgov. So what exactly is the complaint here?

tredigs
10-01-2018, 03:37 PM
This ironically is starting to look like the AI debate about his low efficiency. If you look at LeBron's teammates during the 2015 Finals, who should he have deferred to scoring wise? Here was the 3PT% of his teammates:

Shumpert 32%
J. Jones 30.8%
Smith 29.4%
Delly 23.1%

Here was his team's TS%

Mozgov .631
Thompson .528
J. Jones .482
Bron .477
Smith .424
Shumpert .397
Delly .389


Yeah, Bron had trouble scoring efficiently, as did his entire team minus Mozgov. So what exactly is the complaint here?

That they tried to give him Finals MVP in a losing effort when he couldn't hit the side of a barn? This really needs to be spelled out? Nobody's saying he had a bevy of riches, it's beside the point. 477% TS. Dear God is that garbage.

valade16
10-01-2018, 03:43 PM
That they tried to give him Finals MVP in a losing effort when he couldn't hit the side of a barn? This really needs to be spelled out? Nobody's saying he had a bevy of riches, it's beside the point. 477% TS. Dear God is that garbage.

And you don't think one of those possibly affected the other?

mngopher35
10-01-2018, 03:43 PM
This ironically is starting to look like the AI debate about his low efficiency. If you look at LeBron's teammates during the 2015 Finals, who should he have deferred to scoring wise? Here was the 3PT% of his teammates:

Shumpert 32%
J. Jones 30.8%
Smith 29.4%
Delly 23.1%

Here was his team's TS%

Mozgov .631
Thompson .528
J. Jones .482
Bron .477
Smith .424
Shumpert .397
Delly .389


Yeah, Bron had trouble scoring efficiently, as did his entire team minus Mozgov. So what exactly is the complaint here?

I covered this before too but if you wanna look at the % of his FG's that came from Lebron we further see even Mozgoc scoring ability was reliant on his creating because the defense would shift when Lebron hit the paint. He was the only real threat that defense had to worry about and it isn't a coincidence his volume dropped/efficiency went up in 2016 with more help and the defense needing to be more spread.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 03:49 PM
And you don't think one of those possibly affected the other?

Who cares? The fact is he shot abysmal. And, again, this is not a guy who was overloaded on. That would be Curry. He was left entirely single teamed until he drove into the paint.

I'm also not even saying this is a Finals that should be necessarily held against him, I'm pointing out what a complete joke it was that the narrative was to give him Finals MVP for this effort (absolute **** defense to boot, mind you).

valade16
10-01-2018, 03:55 PM
Who cares? The fact is he shot abysmal. And, again, this is not a guy who was overloaded on. That would be Curry. He was left entirely single teamed until he drove into the paint.

I'm also not even saying this is a Finals that should be necessarily held against him, I'm pointing out what a complete joke it was that the narrative was to give him Finals MVP for this effort (absolute **** defense to boot, mind you).

We all should. Applying context to the numbers should be paramount.

As for his performance, you are of course leaving out that he led the entire series in points, rebounds, assists while averaging 36/13/9 and winning 2 games they had no business of winning.

Devoid of context, yes .477 TS% is God awful. Once you realize his two best teammates were gone from the series and he was playing with overmatched teammates that shot a collective 37% from the field, it starts to become a little more understandable why his TS% is so bad.


Consider how frustrated you get at people who dismiss that Curry was hobbled in the 2016 Finals when you try to apply context to the numbers, it is the same here.

Chronz
10-01-2018, 04:09 PM
How'd this become about bron when we already know kd can't carry. Bron has never hadv this level of support so we can never compare his alleged 1v1 situations.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 04:12 PM
How'd this become about bron when we already know kd can't carry. Bron has never hadv this level of support so we can never compare his alleged 1v1 situations.

but Bosh and Wade man...

tredigs
10-01-2018, 04:23 PM
We all should. Applying context to the numbers should be paramount.

As for his performance, you are of course leaving out that he led the entire series in points, rebounds, assists while averaging 36/13/9 and winning 2 games they had no business of winning.

Devoid of context, yes .477 TS% is God awful. Once you realize his two best teammates were gone from the series and he was playing with overmatched teammates that shot a collective 37% from the field, it starts to become a little more understandable why his TS% is so bad.


Consider how frustrated you get at people who dismiss that Curry was hobbled in the 2016 Finals when you try to apply context to the numbers, it is the same here.
Lol no, we don't need to make any more excuses for him. We sure don't for any other player in a top player of all time discussion. Again, this is me applying some facts to the player that was nearly awarded Finals MVP for that performance. I'm very aware of his counting stats. Sort of comes with the territory when you have a 41% Usage%. Point is, that game plan did not work, and his abysmal shooting was a factor in it. Had he hit his wide open 3's that they offered him all series at a better than 31% clip, I'd be having a different discussion about who deserved Finals MVP.

Anyways, enough of this sidebar from me. My points have been made.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 04:25 PM
but Bosh and Wade man...

Well, Wade was carrying his *** in their first NBA Finals together. Lebron was bad enough that it did not even work. That's a fact.

OK I said I was done... I'm bad at holding to that.

valade16
10-01-2018, 04:29 PM
Lol no, we don't need to make any more excuses for him. We sure don't for any other player in a top player of all time discussion. Again, this is me applying some facts to the player that was nearly awarded Finals MVP for that performance. I'm very aware of his counting stats. Sort of comes with the territory when you have a 41% Usage%. Point is, that game plan did not work, and his abysmal shooting was a factor in it. Had he hit his wide open 3's that they offered him all series at a better than 31% clip, I'd be having a different discussion about who deserved Finals MVP.

Anyways, enough of this sidebar from me. My points have been made.

It's very hard for me to have any sympathy for you or other Dubs fans when people ignore any context to bash Curry when you do the same thing.

I think it's pretty self evident that having an abysmal team around you makes it less likely for you to play efficiently.

tredigs
10-01-2018, 04:34 PM
It's very hard for me to have any sympathy for you or other Dubs fans when people ignore any context to bash Curry when you do the same thing.

I think it's pretty self evident that having an abysmal team around you makes it less likely for you to play efficiently.
Well, he did have Kyrie in game 1 and still shot 2-8 from 3 in the loss. By far his biggest issue was simply having a broken shot. Go rewatch the games some time if you need. He was given all the space in the world until he entered the paint. He couldn't hit, period. You don't need to make excuses for him. Nobody's blaming him for losing the series. But the BS narrative that he should have been Finals MVP for that **** is one of the bigger NBA jokes of the decade.

Also, nobody wants your sympathy and I'm certainly not asking for it. Just stop making excuses for the guy.

OK. Seriously. Now I'm really done. Logging outta here. Have a good day fellas.

valade16
10-01-2018, 04:38 PM
Well, he did have Kyrie in game 1 and still shot 2-8 from 3 in the loss. By far his biggest issue was simply having a broken shot. Go rewatch the games some time if you need. He was given all the space in the world until he entered the paint. He couldn't hit, period. You don't need to make excuses for him. Nobody's blaming him for losing the series. But the BS narrative that he should have been Finals MVP for that **** is one of the bigger NBA jokes of the decade.

Also, nobody wants your sympathy and I'm certainly not asking for it. Just stop making excuses for the guy.

OK. Seriously. Now I'm really done. Logging outta here. Have a good day fellas.

I know you don't want my sympathy, but it's funny when you say "just stop making excuses for the guy" when talking about Bron when that's all you do for Curry. I guess my post should have said, stop being a hypocrite.

Hawkeye15
10-01-2018, 04:53 PM
Well, Wade was carrying his *** in their first NBA Finals together. Lebron was bad enough that it did not even work. That's a fact.

OK I said I was done... I'm bad at holding to that.

and it's already been covered....2011 is all that holds back James from being #1. After that......yeah. Wade/Bosh were far from all NBA. Hell they were not even all star level for some of it. But I digress

valade16
10-01-2018, 04:55 PM
and it's already been covered....2011 is all that holds back James from being #1. After that......yeah. Wade/Bosh were far from all NBA. Hell they were not even all star level for some of it. But I digress

It's weird being in the middle of the LeBron/Warriors/KD debate because both sides bring up context for different situations and both sides then tell each other to stop using excuses and neither side realizes they're both doing the same thing lol.

WaDe03
10-01-2018, 05:06 PM
Wade was still elite on 2012 so stop sleeping on that season.

nastynice
10-01-2018, 05:21 PM
but Bosh and Wade man...

Yup, people forget the heat were actually more stacked on the top end than the warriors. But since they **** the bed so bad their historical underperformance is just somehow not talked about.

nastynice
10-01-2018, 05:27 PM
It's weird being in the middle of the LeBron/Warriors/KD debate because both sides bring up context for different situations and both sides then tell each other to stop using excuses and neither side realizes they're both doing the same thing lol.

Basically it's best player vs best team

WaDe03
10-01-2018, 05:37 PM
Yup, people forget the heat were actually more stacked on the top end than the warriors. But since they **** the bed so bad their historical underperformance is just somehow not talked about.

Based on when they all joined:

Wade
LeBron
KD
Curry
Bosh
Green
Klay

FlashBolt
10-01-2018, 05:37 PM
Curry's legacy was also limited by Durant's decision, make no mistake. But he was already there, on a lesser (albeit incredible) team. And won a chip, and won 2 MVP's. Durant simply jumped on the chip express. That matters....to me. It doesn't need to matter to you. But a lot of people will forever hold Durant's decision against him. Hell people hold LeBron's against him and he had to go yet again be the beast of the NBA for his team to win. Durant didn't need to do ****, they were ready made and proven before he even showed up.

That's really not the point, though. You're speaking from an emotional rather than logical argument. His ring might be weaker than others we've seen because no rings are the same. Even though KD has two rings, neither will come close to being the lone ring LeBron had won with Cleveland. But Curry was a beneficiary of those two rings as well. Curry got his team to the Finals and then played poorly and beat a Cavs team where Matthew Delly was playing way above his minutes that he had to be rehydrated with IV's and sent to the hospital after a game. Does Curry deserve credit for what happened with GSW? He sure does. But that GSW team did a great job building around Curry just as much as much as Curry had with them. And the facts, at the end of the day, will show that Durant was the two times Finals MVP and Curry, with three rings, was never even close to being one.

aman_13
10-01-2018, 05:52 PM
I don't care what anyone says, LeBron carried those teams but he tried to take the short cut. It just backfired on him.



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

valade16
10-01-2018, 06:04 PM
What if KD stays and him and Curry each win 7+ rings. No modern player has won more than MJ's 6 as a superstar level player. How much weight would that then carry?

More-Than-Most
10-01-2018, 07:18 PM
Actually no, Lebron could have simply played at a respectable level in the 2011 Finals and they would have won. He **** the bed, and that is why they lost.

kinda like when curry couldnt get his team 1 win in 3 games with 2 at home??????

More-Than-Most
10-01-2018, 07:22 PM
Lebron 1 v 1? We've seen it dozens of times? Spurs Finals. The first Finals against the Warriors? The entire gameplan was let Lebron shoot and stay home on the perimeter threats. He got his volume on low efficiency (39/31/69 slash against the Warriors in their first Finals meeting... a slash that many said deserved a Finals MVP for him in a 6 game losing effort.... this is the narrative we're dealing with with Lebron stans and the media as a whole), and both teams smashed him.

yea you totally just focused on curry or something then and maybe fell asleep... the defense just collapsed on lebron and he still put up insane numbers but good try.

valade16
10-01-2018, 07:24 PM
kinda like when curry couldnt get his team 1 win in 3 games with 2 at home??????

I seem to recall KD having this same problem his last year with OKC

More-Than-Most
10-01-2018, 07:33 PM
I seem to recall KD having this same problem his last year with OKC

agreed. Only difference is the team he was going against was arguably best team ever where is the cavs really just had lebron/kyrie. Warriors were the favorites the thunder even if they should have won worried the favorites but its still a choke job by durant.

valade16
10-01-2018, 07:36 PM
agreed. Only difference is the team he was going against was arguably best team ever where is the cavs really just had lebron/kyrie. Warriors were the favorites the thunder even if they should have won worried the favorites but its still a choke job by durant.

Well not anymore, thanks to KD those Warriors are definitely not the best team ever because the current Warriors are lol

Saddletramp
10-01-2018, 08:46 PM
Durant was dominant dude. On both roads. And they got pushed to a game 7 in the Western Conference Finals where they were down double digits on the road in the 2nd half to an incredible team. The Finals was a **** show because the East is a disaster and they fielded a dog **** Finals team. That's not on the Warriors or KD.
Talk about the deck being stacked and the narrative BS all you want, those are the facts. He was absolutely huge for them in taking down the previous title at the very least. And again, he has never given up on his team mid series. That distinction is solely for Lebron. The alpha *****.

Back to calling the Rockets an incredible team and not one that would have lost in 5 if not for Iguadalaís injury. You keep talking out of both ends of your *** so much that Iím beginning to think you have two *******s.

Saddletramp
10-01-2018, 08:56 PM
Lebron 1 v 1? We've seen it dozens of times? Spurs Finals. The first Finals against the Warriors? The entire gameplan was let Lebron shoot and stay home on the perimeter threats. He got his volume on low efficiency (39/31/69 slash against the Warriors in their first Finals meeting... a slash that many said deserved a Finals MVP for him in a 6 game losing effort.... this is the narrative we're dealing with with Lebron stans and the media as a whole), and both teams smashed him.

How do you get ďsmashedĒ in 6 games? That guy averaged 36/13/9 for crying out loud. Youíre just still butthurt from 4 years ago because one guy pushed your beloveds to 6 games and your sweet prince didnít get FMVP. I donít even remember anybody bringing this up now to the point of you freaking out about it.


Consider how frustrated you get at people who dismiss that Curry was hobbled in the 2016 Finals when you try to apply context to the numbers, it is the same here.

As soon as you said this, he had to run. And he never answered. Good olí Tre, picking and choosing, picking and choosing.

WaDe03
10-01-2018, 10:00 PM
What if KD stays and him and Curry each win 7+ rings. No modern player has won more than MJ's 6 as a superstar level player. How much weight would that then carry?

Theyíre the favorites by a wide margin every year. Itís a foregone conclusion before
The season even starts so Iím sorry but itís not impressive.

FlashBolt
10-01-2018, 10:13 PM
How do you get ďsmashedĒ in 6 games? That guy averaged 36/13/9 for crying out loud. Youíre just still butthurt from 4 years ago because one guy pushed your beloveds to 6 games and your sweet prince didnít get FMVP. I donít even remember anybody bringing this up now to the point of you freaking out about it.



As soon as you said this, he had to run. And he never answered. Good olí Tre, picking and choosing, picking and choosing.

Lmao, this is my impression as well. He is clearly upset that Curry isn't getting enough respect around the league and that LeBron is still the face of the NBA while Curry is aged 30 and when Bron's prime is over, Curry will be too old and someone else will take over. Let's be honest: No LeBron in the league and Curry would be the face of the NBA today. Durant never joins the Warriors, Curry has four rings and we'll be talking about the GOAT conversation. Instead, we're talking about a 3X NBA champion who has never won a Finals MVP and who will now be known as Durant's sidekick. He doesn't want Durant gone because it's "too stacked." He wants Durant gone because Curry isn't getting enough attention. I mean, the stuff inserted from his keyboard strokes screams of dung. "LeBron shot bad from the field." Yeah, cause he was playing 40+ minutes with Matthew Delly as the Cavs 2nd best player and an overall roster in which none of them were competent and legitimate starters for a Finals team. Let's see how well Curry does if we reverse the roles. Is this even worth discussing? One team lost two of their All-Stars and wasn't even supposed to win a game after Kyrie's injury. No one talked about LeBron's TS% because he was literally their best option on every play. But Tredigs will push the narrative that LeBron played bad and at the same time say Curry played great.

Saddletramp
10-02-2018, 02:13 AM
^^^^^Yeah, poor Steph. Poor Tre. :(

Tre said: ďNobody's saying he had a bevy of riches, it's beside the point. 477% TS. Dear God is that garbage.Ē


And you don't think one of those possibly affected the other?

To which Tre responds with: ďWho cares?ď



Lol. Iím literally smiling right now because that is the stupidest ****ing thing Iíve seen on this board and Iíve seen plenty of stupid things. HAHAHAHA

nastynice
10-02-2018, 03:58 AM
Back to calling the Rockets an incredible team and not one that would have lost in 5 if not for Iguadalaís injury. You keep talking out of both ends of your *** so much that Iím beginning to think you have two *******s.

I think the rockets are kinda underrated just cuz of how good the warriors are. If the warriors don't exist, people probably talking bout the rockets in all time sense. At least for a season

Hawkeye15
10-02-2018, 09:29 AM
That's really not the point, though. You're speaking from an emotional rather than logical argument. His ring might be weaker than others we've seen because no rings are the same. Even though KD has two rings, neither will come close to being the lone ring LeBron had won with Cleveland. But Curry was a beneficiary of those two rings as well. Curry got his team to the Finals and then played poorly and beat a Cavs team where Matthew Delly was playing way above his minutes that he had to be rehydrated with IV's and sent to the hospital after a game. Does Curry deserve credit for what happened with GSW? He sure does. But that GSW team did a great job building around Curry just as much as much as Curry had with them. And the facts, at the end of the day, will show that Durant was the two times Finals MVP and Curry, with three rings, was never even close to being one.

you seem to agree with half of what people say and talk in circles in the meantime.

Durant, has top 5 ever potential. Well, had. Curry, had top 15 potential. They will both fall short of those positions. Durant, due to context, will not even sniff it.

They both had their legacies hurt, but Curry gets more of a pass for proving dominance and winning awards/chip before KD showed up. KD literally gets no credit from me (and many others), his numbers are just hollow. Nobody should get credit for hitching onto a 71 win team that won a title without you. You aren't needed, it's been proven. Hell KD likely finishes higher in my book without a title, versus the way he has won his 2 so far.

Hawkeye15
10-02-2018, 09:31 AM
I don't care what anyone says, LeBron carried those teams but he tried to take the short cut. It just backfired on him.



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

yes, and that is always the difference between the 2. LeBron wanted what Durant got, which is the easiest possible way to win a title. It backfired, and he had to carry a team on his back to 3 titles anyways. So his legacy is set.

If Durant loses a couple of teammates to injury/FA/trade, and lifts his team on his back to a title while clearly being the teams best player, the one his team can't possibly win without him being the best player on the planet (this is what we expect from James, and got), then we can talk about giving him ultimate credit for it. But simply squeezing your fat *** into the backseat of the chip car isn't getting you credit.

More-Than-Most
10-02-2018, 09:38 AM
you seem to agree with half of what people say and talk in circles in the meantime.

Durant, has top 5 ever potential. Well, had. Curry, had top 15 potential. They will both fall short of those positions. Durant, due to context, will not even sniff it.

They both had their legacies hurt, but Curry gets more of a pass for proving dominance and winning awards/chip before KD showed up. KD literally gets no credit from me (and many others), his numbers are just hollow. Nobody should get credit for hitching onto a 71 win team that won a title without you. You aren't needed, it's been proven. Hell KD likely finishes higher in my book without a title, versus the way he has won his 2 so far.

i get it but at the same time yes durant took the ***** way out but what does that say about the best player from the best team-goat team- running to durant for dinner/etc etc trying to get him to come to that team so he no longer gets exposed by big bad lebron because of a 3-1 choke fest? To me that is equally as bad... That is curry basically screaming please daddy durant please come save me they finally figured me out.

Hawkeye15
10-02-2018, 09:47 AM
i get it but at the same time yes durant took the ***** way out but what does that say about the best player from the best team-goat team- running to durant for dinner/etc etc trying to get him to come to that team so he no longer gets exposed by big bad lebron because of a 3-1 choke fest? To me that is equally as bad... That is curry basically screaming please daddy durant please come save me they finally figured me out.

let me put it this way-I can't stand Kevin Durant. I think what he did was spineless, and damn right I lead this argument with emotions. Unless he is forced to carry a team to a title, nothing he can do will change his stature, with me. But I am only me. Curry, never had top 10 potential to me. So him dropping from at best 13-14, down to 20-25, is whatever to me. But, Curry DID win a title and 2 MVP's as the best player on the best team in 2 decades prior to nancy showing up. So his legacy is safer to me personally.

We can compare LeBron/Durant all day. Their actions similarity starts and stops with they both left in FA. Why, and what happened next, are 2 absolutely different things.

Chronz
10-02-2018, 11:33 AM
Back to calling the Rockets an incredible team and not one that would have lost in 5 if not for Iguadalaís injury. You keep talking out of both ends of your *** so much that Iím beginning to think you have two *******s.

I don't understand what makes a cp3less rockets a great team, more like the dubs played beneath themselves and played with just enough effort to crush a depleted team with a single star who himself struggles in the playoffs. they almost lost game 1 to the ****** Cavs they're so lackadaisical. Must be nice to sleep walk to a dynasty

Hawkeye15
10-02-2018, 11:51 AM
I don't understand what makes a cp3less rockets a great team, more like the dubs played beneath themselves and played with just enough effort to crush a depleted team with a single star who himself struggles in the playoffs. they almost lost game 1 to the ****** Cavs they're so lackadaisical. Must be nice to sleep walk to a dynasty

I have repeated this to death dude. GS is so far and away the best team, they are the only team that can beat them(selves). They looked terrible against houston, and still won. I mean, have we ever seen a team that could lose an all NBA player and likely still mow down the league? Meh

ewing
10-02-2018, 11:56 AM
Both are sissys

nastynice
10-02-2018, 01:09 PM
you seem to agree with half of what people say and talk in circles in the meantime.

Durant, has top 5 ever potential. Well, had. Curry, had top 15 potential. They will both fall short of those positions. Durant, due to context, will not even sniff it.

They both had their legacies hurt, but Curry gets more of a pass for proving dominance and winning awards/chip before KD showed up. KD literally gets no credit from me (and many others), his numbers are just hollow. Nobody should get credit for hitching onto a 71 win team that won a title without you. You aren't needed, it's been proven. Hell KD likely finishes higher in my book without a title, versus the way he has won his 2 so far.

I think it's pretty safe to say he was needed.

Like you said, in theory he should get no credit, but in reality he has repeatedly **** on the best players in the playoffs, including one player who many argue is the best ever, over and over again. Not only **** in that player, but you can visibly see him wanting nothing to do with kd, giving him up on every switch opportunity all game, lmao.

nastynice
10-02-2018, 01:10 PM
I have repeated this to death dude. GS is so far and away the best team, they are the only team that can beat them(selves). They looked terrible against houston, and still won. I mean, have we ever seen a team that could lose an all NBA player and likely still mow down the league? Meh

:clap: :clap: lol, never! Possible greatest ever

nastynice
10-02-2018, 01:15 PM
i get it but at the same time yes durant took the ***** way out but what does that say about the best player from the best team-goat team- running to durant for dinner/etc etc trying to get him to come to that team so he no longer gets exposed by big bad lebron because of a 3-1 choke fest? To me that is equally as bad... That is curry basically screaming please daddy durant please come save me they finally figured me out.

As far as equating a team crying like a little *****, I'd say asking your fan base to pay money to watch you go out and try to lose is way bigger ***** move than ANYTHING that's happened in golden state.

Yet you pat yourself on the back for that one? lolll, hmm...