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View Full Version : Best foreigners all time vs. Current American NBA Stars



Heediot
08-26-2018, 09:24 AM
Arvydas-Marc Gasol-Embiid
Dirk-Pau Gasol
Giannis-Peja-AK
Manu-Petrovic
Nash-TParker

Vs.

A. Davis-Cousins-D. Jordan
James-DRay
Durant-K. Leonard
Harden-Klay
Curry-Cp-RW

Who wins?

First team all in their primes, 2nd team players as they are currently.

warfelg
08-26-2018, 09:40 AM
Are your foreign players just born or drafted from?

Because if itís just born....thereís a good number of guys on that world team left off.

Heediot
08-26-2018, 09:44 AM
Are your foreign players just born or drafted from?

Because if itís just born....thereís a good number of guys on that world team left off.

No real strict standard. Just creating a team to compete vs. the current crop of american nbaers.

JAZZNC
08-26-2018, 09:49 AM
Yeah, putting Hakeem on the foreign squad probably helps considerably.

Heediot
08-26-2018, 09:54 AM
Yeah, putting Hakeem on the foreign squad probably helps considerably.

Yeah Hakeem for sure would help.

Timmy would also be immense.

Those guys rapped usa in international play so I was personally iffy to add them.

warfelg
08-26-2018, 10:01 AM
Because if itís just not born in the US:
Nash - Parker - Irving (Australia)
Ginobili - Petrovic - Blackman
Wilkins (France) - Antetokounmpo - Kukoc
Nowitzki - Horford (Dominican Republic) - Shrempf
Olajuwon- Duncan (US Virgin Islands) - Ewing (Jamaica)

Heediot
08-26-2018, 10:22 AM
Because if itís just not born in the US:
Nash - Parker - Irving (Australia)
Ginobili - Petrovic - Blackman
Wilkins (France) - Antetokounmpo - Kukoc
Nowitzki - Horford (Dominican Republic) - Shrempf
Olajuwon- Duncan (US Virgin Islands) - Ewing (Jamaica)

Nice players you found.

Including your criteria my squad would be.

Nash-tp-kyrie (for close out situations and pure scoring)
Manu-drazen
Giannis (for length and defense)-peja for shooting.
Dirk-pau
Hakeem-duncan-arvydas

If it's 15 man roster ak (for defense and length). NIQUE for another scorer. Doncic Lol. Had to leave out pat as I like those other bigs better for international play. There is enough defense without Ewing.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-26-2018, 06:53 PM
Lol at having Embiid instead of Yao.

warfelg
08-26-2018, 06:55 PM
Lol at having Embiid instead of Yao.

As much as I loooooove Embiid.....+1

Raps08-09 Champ
08-26-2018, 07:06 PM
JFC you don't even have Dikembe either...

IKnowHoops
08-26-2018, 11:27 PM
Because if itís just not born in the US:
Nash - Parker - Irving (Australia)
Ginobili - Petrovic - Blackman
Wilkins (France) - Antetokounmpo - Kukoc
Nowitzki - Horford (Dominican Republic) - Shrempf
Olajuwon- Duncan (US Virgin Islands) - Ewing (Jamaica)

Now thatís a very good game, and I may side with the foreigners

IKnowHoops
08-26-2018, 11:35 PM
Nash
Giannis
Dirk
Duncan
Dream

That would be my starting 5 and they would be met by

Lebron
Kawaii
KD
Giannis
AD

Thats a great game

Best of seven, at first glance Iíd go with the foreigners, but itís tough.

I like Bron/KL/KD > Nash/Giannis/Dirk
But I like Dirk/Duncan/Dream > KD/Giannis/AD

Ahriman
08-27-2018, 04:23 AM
I don't see how you can add Tim Duncan since he represented Team USA. He can't be considered a foreigner

Vinylman
08-27-2018, 08:13 AM
I don't see how you can add Tim Duncan since he represented Team USA. He can't be considered a foreigner

sure he can... the whole point of the thread is delusion...


I heard LBJ went to Mexico on vacation once so he should be on the international team

tredigs
08-27-2018, 11:30 AM
Technically the Virgin Islands (at least his home St. Croix) is a US territory, so Duncan is not a foreigner. Nique is also an American. My team would be....

PG: Nash / Parker / Simmons
SG: Manu / Drazen
SF: Giannis / Schrempf / Peja
PF: Dirk / Pau
C: Hakeem / Yao / Mutombo

kdspurman
08-27-2018, 12:05 PM
Technically the Virgin Islands (at least his home St. Croix) is a US territory, so Duncan is not a foreigner. Nique is also an American. My team would be....

PG: Nash / Parker / Simmons
SG: Manu / Drazen
SF: Giannis / Schrempf / Peja
PF: Dirk / Pau
C: Hakeem / Yao / Mutombo

Exactly

IKnowHoops
08-27-2018, 12:43 PM
Exactly

Nice Sig

Heediot
08-27-2018, 12:45 PM
JFC you don't even have Dikembe either...


Lol at having Embiid instead of Yao.

Very good finds. Yeah I had a more Euro bias, so some africans and especially Yao slipped my mind.

AntiG
08-27-2018, 02:55 PM
Because if itís just not born in the US:
Nash - Parker - Irving (Australia)
Ginobili - Petrovic - Blackman
Wilkins (France) - Antetokounmpo - Kukoc
Nowitzki - Horford (Dominican Republic) - Shrempf
Olajuwon- Duncan (US Virgin Islands) - Ewing (Jamaica)

US Virgin Islands = Born in the US...

AntiG
08-27-2018, 02:58 PM
I don't see how you can add Tim Duncan since he represented Team USA. He can't be considered a foreigner

Hakeem repped Team USA as well after he got citizenship, so that wouldn't be the reason... Duncan was born in the US, so by birthright he's American. Wilkins was born in Paris, but he's American by birthright as well due to his father being stationed overseas when he was born.

kdspurman
08-27-2018, 02:59 PM
Nice Sig

Thanks :hi5:

warfelg
08-27-2018, 04:57 PM
Some of yíall need a geography lesson on what it means to be an unincorporated United States Territory.

tredigs
08-27-2018, 08:43 PM
Some of yíall need a geography lesson on what it means to be an unincorporated United States Territory.

Considering you think he's a foreigner, you're the dumb one here. His passport is that of a United States Citizen, and always has been. The distinction is that territories can not vote. The United States Virgin Islands is not a foreign country, in case that needs to be fully spelled out for you.

warfelg
08-27-2018, 09:13 PM
Considering you think he's a foreigner, you're the dumb one here. His passport is that of a United States Citizen, and always has been. The distinction is that territories can not vote. The United States Virgin Islands is not a foreign country, in case that needs to be fully spelled out for you.

They arenít a country at all. Much like Puerto Rico they are independent that come under USAís protection. They arenít their own country they arenít part of the USA.

You are showing a complete lack of understanding of what it means to be an unincorporated territory.

Heediot
08-28-2018, 05:39 AM
the Virgin Islands have their own national team FWIW. They are currently participating in the World Cup Qualifying group stages.

buckalis
08-28-2018, 07:09 AM
Are your foreign players just born or drafted from?

Because if itís just born....thereís a good number of guys on that world team left off.

Tony Kuckoc, Raja, Danillovic, Arlauskas, Oscar Schmitt to say at least...

warfelg
08-28-2018, 07:20 AM
Tony Kuckoc, Raja, Danillovic, Arlauskas, Oscar Schmitt to say at least...

Agreed. Man....Team USA; Team Americas (Born N.A./S.A. but not in the USA); Team Europe; Team Africa

basch152
08-28-2018, 07:42 AM
I mean, you don't need a passport to go there, they don't need a passport to come here, and you have lines like this -

"The inhabitants of the ceded territory ... shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States;"

it's a huge stretch to say they aren't US citizens.

warfelg
08-28-2018, 07:59 AM
Under United States law, an unincorporated territory is an area controlled by the United States government which is not part of (i.e., "incorporated" in) the United States. In unincorporated territories, the U.S. Constitution applies only partially. In the absence of an organic law, a territory is classified as unorganized. In unincorporated territories, "fundamental rights apply as a matter of law, but other constitutional rights are not available".[1] Selected constitutional provisions apply depending on congressional acts and judicial rulings according to U.S. constitutional practice, local tradition and law.

They aren't part of the US, only parts of the constitution apply.

Lastly.....look at almost any foreign born player list....Tim Duncan is on it.

buckalis
08-28-2018, 09:22 AM
Agreed. Man....Team USA; Team Americas (Born N.A./S.A. but not in the USA); Team Europe; Team Africa

Perhaps it would be best if one could have a game with today's players:

Irving, Parker, Giannis, Porzingis & Embid (with Simmons, Dragic, Galinari, Mirotic & Valanciounas for back up) vs. Curry, Kawhi, Lebron, Durant & Davis... That would be fan to watch...

basch152
08-28-2018, 09:53 AM
They aren't part of the US, only parts of the constitution apply.

Lastly.....look at almost any foreign born player list....Tim Duncan is on it.

yet they're still considered US citizens.

it's a stretch at best.

warfelg
08-28-2018, 10:20 AM
yet they're still considered US citizens.

it's a stretch at best.

Not fully. They donít vote in our elections. They pay taxes. They can freely immigrate here if they chose. Itís not a cut and dry situation with territories.

tredigs
08-28-2018, 10:47 AM
I mean, you don't need a passport to go there, they don't need a passport to come here, and you have lines like this -

"The inhabitants of the ceded territory ... shall be admitted to the enjoyment of all the rights, advantages, and immunities of citizens of the United States;"

it's a huge stretch to say they aren't US citizens.

It's not that it's a "stretch" to say they're not U.S. citizens, it's false. They are U.S. citizens. Literally all they can not do is vote (this has to do with states rights + representation as much as anything else), but they can move to the states freely and once they establish residence here, they can do that too. English is also the standard language and their currency is the U.S. dollar. They definitely can not claim being a foreigner.

FlashBolt
08-28-2018, 03:42 PM
Not fully. They donít vote in our elections. They pay taxes. They can freely immigrate here if they chose. Itís not a cut and dry situation with territories.
Yeah, this is a bad take. They ARE U.S. Citizens. It's in the law. By birth, they are U.S. Citizens so to say they aren't fully because they don't vote in our elections is irrelevant. Regardless of how you wish to categorize it, the United States recognizes them as citizens and that is all that matters.

FlashBolt
08-28-2018, 03:49 PM
If you think about it, the current American NBA stars have a solid argument for being some of the most talented players of all-time. Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Harden, CP, Russ. It's not a knock on the best foreigners of all-time but Kevin Durant can be a top ten, LeBron is a top three, Curry can be a top 15, and Harden+Russ+CP3+Kawhi+AD all have a shot at being top 50.

warfelg
08-28-2018, 06:46 PM
Yeah, this is a bad take. They ARE U.S. Citizens. It's in the law. By birth, they are U.S. Citizens so to say they aren't fully because they don't vote in our elections is irrelevant. Regardless of how you wish to categorize it, the United States recognizes them as citizens and that is all that matters.

Then take it up with the dozens of places that call people from US territories 'foreigners'. Including the lists that include Duncan.

EDIT:
https://viconsortium.com/virgin-islands-2/citizenship-is-not-a-fundamental-right-of-virgin-islanders-obama-administration-says/

A rather interesting read on the topic. In most cases they have to renounce being a US Citizen to be a US Citizen if they move to a state.

http://theconversation.com/are-puerto-ricans-really-american-citizens-73723

This one focuses on Puerto Rica, but they hold the same status as US Virgin Islands

valade16
08-28-2018, 06:54 PM
My wife is from the territory of Saipan near Guam, she was a US Citizen at birth. Had she been born a few years earlier, she would not have been but the US made it so they are all citizens upon birth there now.

FlashBolt
08-28-2018, 06:54 PM
Then take it up with the dozens of places that call people from US territories 'foreigners'. Including the lists that include Duncan.

That's not what I am arguing but they are citizens and I don't think that is up for any discussion.

IKnowHoops
08-28-2018, 09:33 PM
If you think about it, the current American NBA stars have a solid argument for being some of the most talented players of all-time. Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Harden, CP, Russ. It's not a knock on the best foreigners of all-time but Kevin Durant can be a top ten, LeBron is a top three, Curry can be a top 15, and Harden+Russ+CP3+Kawhi+AD all have a shot at being top 50.

Kawhi and AD can be top 20.

FlashBolt
08-28-2018, 11:08 PM
Kawhi and AD can be top 20.
Depends on his trajectory but he's realistically only had one very elite season. AD has been great but his biggest problem is advancing in the playoffs. Granted, he's gone up against the Warriors multiple times so he's somewhat gotten a pass. Easily top 50 but I wanted to be more conservative. A lot of players don't end up the way we expect.

Ahriman
08-29-2018, 04:51 AM
Hakeem repped Team USA as well after he got citizenship, so that wouldn't be the reason... Duncan was born in the US, so by birthright he's American. Wilkins was born in Paris, but he's American by birthright as well due to his father being stationed overseas when he was born.

Well tbh I would not consider Hakeem international anymore since he played for USA but I see where you're coming from.

voyager77
09-06-2018, 02:09 PM
I would go with international.

braidster#1
09-11-2018, 01:46 AM
With all these defaults if this is based on "prime" Kirilenko should also get some props for the International team.

YAALREADYKNO
09-11-2018, 08:46 PM
with all these defaults if this is based on "prime" kirilenko should also get some props for the international team.

ak-47

WhiteShadow42
09-13-2018, 07:36 PM
All I want to say is the name Detlef Schrempf It just sounds cool. Sounds like a German heavy metal band.