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Rivera
08-15-2018, 09:41 AM
To generate more discussion, I thought it could be fun to debate and have a pre season NBA rankings before anyone hits the floor. We can look back and laugh at how wrong we were or boast about how right we were

To put some structure behind this, I want to rank the best teams in terms of title contenders. Most of PSD feels GSW will sleep walk to another title this season with the addition of DMC so I will rank them as the defacto #1 with no voting.

Who would you rank as the 2nd best team? I will leave the poll open for the weekend, and continue this every other day (minus weekends) - (M/W/F)

Who are you ranking as the 2nd best team in the NBA

(Poll: If I left out a team you feel deserves to be in the poll, please add the team below in this thread)


Lets Debate!

PSD Power Rankings:

1) Golden State Warriors
2) Houston Rockets
3) Boston Celtics
4) Toronto Raptors
5) OKC Thunder
6) Utah Jazz

Rivera
08-15-2018, 09:44 AM
We are at 7. This seems to be Phillys spot but I feel the Lakers and the Spurs have an argument

Denver seems like the darlings of the offseason, a lot of people like them

We have 3 new teams in the poll (Minny/Bucks/Wiz)

If you feel I left out a team, feel free to post who and I will add to the poll

mightybosstone
08-15-2018, 10:30 AM
Mark my words: OKC and Utah will not finish with better records or go further in the playoffs than Philly. The 76ers finished fifth in both overall win-loss record and SRS last season, and yet despite them being a young team that should continue to improve, we're looking at them for 7th? I just don't understand the logic in that unless you think Embiid is going to miss 40+ games this year.

Rivera
08-15-2018, 10:54 AM
Mark my words: OKC and Utah will not finish with better records or go further in the playoffs than Philly. The 76ers finished fifth in both overall win-loss record and SRS last season, and yet despite them being a young team that should continue to improve, we're looking at them for 7th? I just don't understand the logic in that unless you think Embiid is going to miss 40+ games this year.

I get what your saying. I dont think OKC or Utah will finish further in the playoffs than Philly. But I dont think Philly will finish further than Utah either. OKC has potential to get bounced in the first round again. Early, I have both Utah and Philly as 2nd round exits with a WCF of Houston/GSW Bos/Toronto. which to me is a wash.

I expect them to be better, they won 52 games last season, I could see 55. My biggest issue with Philly is Ben Simmons. Not that he isnt spectacular, because he is, he has superstar written all over him. But Boston proved it was easy to game plan for Philly come playoff time because Ben in a game will not shoot a jump shot. I dont get it. Toronto defensively has serious potential as well as Boston and both teams can scheme around the non shooting Ben. I hope he improves that jumper and actually takes them in the game, but like Fultz, like Zo, im waiting and seeing before I believe it.

I could see both Utah and Philly finishing with 55 wins but 2nd round exits.

Rivera
08-15-2018, 10:58 AM
The Lakers are the most fascinating. If I did these rankings last season, I bet Cleveland would have finished no worse than 5th because of Lebron and the east. I know LeBron is out west, but hes still Lebron and the Lakers core is better than Clevelands core to me. They are going to have some length on that team and they will need growth from Kuz/Zo/BI/Hart to take that next step. I really like the Lakers and think they can compete with anyone. They arent good enough yet to beat GSW but with LeBron, I could see them beating any other team in the west in 7 games. They are so difficult to place

warfelg
08-15-2018, 11:44 AM
Mark my words: OKC and Utah will not finish with better records or go further in the playoffs than Philly. The 76ers finished fifth in both overall win-loss record and SRS last season, and yet despite them being a young team that should continue to improve, we're looking at them for 7th? I just don't understand the logic in that unless you think Embiid is going to miss 40+ games this year.

Itís also two teams in a row that finished below Philly, and didnít add anything of significance; but somehow thatís good for them and a reason Philly wonít improve.

And another young team that people blindly said would improve, while they come up with excuses as to why Philly wonít.

A team that finished high in the conference, didnít see much change, saw team in their conference get weaker and somehow they will slide back despite guys that are on an upward trajectory.

BTW:
Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova are officially overrated. Their hot play came on the Sixers easiest part of the schedule, and as soon as we played good teams again they were invisible.

Heediot
08-15-2018, 11:54 AM
Itís also two teams in a row that finished below Philly, and didnít add anything of significance; but somehow thatís good for them and a reason Philly wonít improve.

And another young team that people blindly said would improve, while they come up with excuses as to why Philly wonít.

A team that finished high in the conference, didnít see much change, saw team in their conference get weaker and somehow they will slide back despite guys that are on an upward trajectory.

BTW:
Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova are officially overrated. Their hot play came on the Sixers easiest part of the schedule, and as soon as we played good teams again they were invisible.

I like the Sixers more vs. others in here. The internal improvement is being slept on. Sure the inexperience showed in the playoffs, and a little bit of out-coaching, but I think they are better then Utah and OKC. That taste of may will pay dividends. I would take the Lakers over Utah and OKC in a playoff series too.
I think Lakers should have been 5, Phi 6.....

Rivera
08-15-2018, 12:41 PM
Itís also two teams in a row that finished below Philly, and didnít add anything of significance; but somehow thatís good for them and a reason Philly wonít improve.

And another young team that people blindly said would improve, while they come up with excuses as to why Philly wonít.

A team that finished high in the conference, didnít see much change, saw team in their conference get weaker and somehow they will slide back despite guys that are on an upward trajectory.

BTW:
Marco Belinelli and Ersan Ilyasova are officially overrated. Their hot play came on the Sixers easiest part of the schedule, and as soon as we played good teams again they were invisible.

me personally its nothing what you said. its not hating. its me looking at the rosters, and saying Utah overall is better than Philly. If they ever played in a 7 game series, I would pick Utah. Its not slighting Philly in the slightest. They are going to be better, im pegging them at 55 wins. Its I feel Utah is more well rounded and has less liabilities. Boston proved how you can game plan against Philly and that wont change until Ben shoots past 10 feet. Im not saying he wont eventually, I just havent seen a player since early Rondo flat out refuse to shoot an open jump shot. The minute Ben unlocks that jumper, Philly is going to sky rocket to title contenders. I have them fringe because I believe both Toronto and Boston are better than Philly and more well rounded. Both (and Philly) have potential to be defensive power houses. But until Ben shoots, its just easier to gameplan.

its no offense, and you seem to take big offense and a slight against your team, when its not.

I completely disagree with PSD about OKC, i feel OKC overrated them like crazy. I would have Philly at 6 overall

warfelg
08-15-2018, 01:00 PM
Iím not taking it as an offense but raising the question of the double standard of why you (and others) have certain things happening for some teams but not others.

Take the Utah roster vs Philly.

I saw arguments the Mitchell will become more efficient (not a given) but suggesting the Ben or Fultz will improve is met with ďI need to see itĒ.

You say Utahís roster is better. Their #1 player isnít as good as Embiid. Even number two could be a toss up.

My stance is less offended what people are saying and more questioning how overrated Utah has been.

Rivera
08-15-2018, 01:13 PM
i hate going piece by piece but i have to rebuttal to each point


Iím not taking it as an offense but raising the question of the double standard of why you (and others) have certain things happening for some teams but not others.

Take the Utah roster vs Philly.

I saw arguments the Mitchell will become more efficient (not a given) but suggesting the Ben or Fultz will improve is met with ďI need to see itĒ.

I never said Mitchell will become more efficient. This is exactly what I said:

Mitchell - you see a potential superstar. His turnover rate was high, decision making needs to improve, shot has to be more consistent, and he has to learn how to lean on his teammates because at times, he can go "westbrook" meaning try so hard to win the game for his team. Hes got to work on his defense to get to that next level. What we dont know is the same as Kuz. How bad he wants it and how hard he works, like Kuz he seems to have both but we dont really know that because we arent with them or seeing what they really do on a daily basis

so that part is incorrect. I never said Mitchell will become more efficient. I actually gave fair criticism to his game. We all need to see Fultz, yourself included. We have no idea what Fultz is because of his injury. Ill lean to what I said before. His video work outs look great, but you know who elses video work outs looked great last year? Carmelo Anthony when they gave him the hoodie Melo moniker. Because he was out all last season and we got a small glimpse of what Fultz can be, can we see it for a whole season ? At least we got full seasons of Ben/Mitchell so we have a better idea as to who these players are vs Fultz.

Ben just doesnt shoot. He will improve. Im sure the game will slow down for him, he will make smarter decisions, be at the right place on the court more often, but me saying I need to see him shoot is a criticism based off how he played last season and in college. In college, Ben didnt shoot past 10 feet either. Im 100% sure hes working on it but until he has the confidence to take a jumper consistently 15-20 feet thats a fair criticism because Ben hasnt shown us that aspect of his game yet. I also said, when Ben does this, Philly will take a huge step into real title contention and leap Toronto. I gave Philly the props but also fair criticism, its not like im saying Utah is far and away better. But to me they are better right now, deeper right now, and I could see them finishing with a top 3 seed out west, just like I see Philly finishing with a top 3 seed out east.


You say Utahís roster is better. Their #1 player isnít as good as Embiid. Even number two could be a toss up.

0 debate here. You are 100% correct on that aspect. But if we are talking best players, we all know Lebron is the best player in the league, and PSD hasnt ranked his team in the top 5 despite how we have seen LeBron carry less than mediocre rosters to the finals. I rate teams, when it comes to team power rankings, not who has the best player. [/QUOTE]


My stance is less offended what people are saying and more questioning how overrated Utah has been.


understandable, I will say, I dont see anyone on PSD proclaiming Utah as title contenders, I have seen them ranked as high as 2 even on different sites, but I think Philly and Utah are pretty even in terms of roster, I just like Utahs depth a little bit more and due to Bens lack of confidence shooting, Philly is easier to game plan for in a 7 game series. Those 2 reasons is why I have Utah slightly ahead of Philly and its by the slightest of margins

warfelg
08-15-2018, 01:35 PM
So yes thatís your personal feelings, and you didnít need to rehash, because I said ďin generalĒ. You just went very defensive when you didnít have to.

Jamiecballer
08-15-2018, 01:38 PM
Mark my words: OKC and Utah will not finish with better records or go further in the playoffs than Philly. The 76ers finished fifth in both overall win-loss record and SRS last season, and yet despite them being a young team that should continue to improve, we're looking at them for 7th? I just don't understand the logic in that unless you think Embiid is going to miss 40+ games this year.I think people are probably playing it cautious with a team that was 25-25 after 50 games. There is also the narrative (true or false I dont know) that a big part of their late season success were two buyout guys who are gone.

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Jamiecballer
08-15-2018, 01:42 PM
Iím not taking it as an offense but raising the question of the double standard of why you (and others) have certain things happening for some teams but not others.

Take the Utah roster vs Philly.

I saw arguments the Mitchell will become more efficient (not a given) but suggesting the Ben or Fultz will improve is met with ďI need to see itĒ.

You say Utahís roster is better. Their #1 player isnít as good as Embiid. Even number two could be a toss up.

My stance is less offended what people are saying and more questioning how overrated Utah has been.The fultz thing is totally understandable. After the debacle of last year he is broken until proven otherwise. In the eyes of many.

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Rivera
08-15-2018, 01:42 PM
So yes thatís your personal feelings, and you didnít need to rehash, because I said ďin generalĒ. You just went very defensive when you didnít have to.

wasnt defensive, i guess on PSD we arent allowed to have conversations and debates :shrug:

warfelg
08-15-2018, 01:58 PM
The fultz thing is totally understandable. After the debacle of last year he is broken until proven otherwise. In the eyes of many.

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Eh. Iím one of those that for the offseason either hold everyone to the ďhe can improveĒ standard or judge based on what they were last year.

GREATNESS ONE
08-15-2018, 02:08 PM
Lakers > OKC, Utah, Philly, Toronto

Jamiecballer
08-15-2018, 03:12 PM
Eh. Iím one of those that for the offseason either hold everyone to the ďhe can improveĒ standard or judge based on what they were last year.There is a difference, for many the circumstances around him are so troubling that we dont know if hes broken or not. I'm not sure why he should be looked at like everyone else when his situation is unlike anyone else that I can recall at least.

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AntiG
08-16-2018, 02:54 PM
the Lakers have Lebron. That should already say it all.

GREATNESS ONE
08-16-2018, 04:02 PM
the Lakers have Lebron. That should already say it all.

Na, not on PSD and these so called ďexpertsĒ, who will looks foolish at season end..

Chronz
08-16-2018, 07:58 PM
If Roberson is back, thunder reach their potential

Sadds The Gr8
08-16-2018, 11:44 PM
I get what your saying. I dont think OKC or Utah will finish further in the playoffs than Philly. But I dont think Philly will finish further than Utah either. OKC has potential to get bounced in the first round again. Early, I have both Utah and Philly as 2nd round exits with a WCF of Houston/GSW Bos/Toronto. which to me is a wash.

I expect them to be better, they won 52 games last season, I could see 55. My biggest issue with Philly is Ben Simmons. Not that he isnt spectacular, because he is, he has superstar written all over him. But Boston proved it was easy to game plan for Philly come playoff time because Ben in a game will not shoot a jump shot. I dont get it. Toronto defensively has serious potential as well as Boston and both teams can scheme around the non shooting Ben. I hope he improves that jumper and actually takes them in the game, but like Fultz, like Zo, im waiting and seeing before I believe it.

I could see both Utah and Philly finishing with 55 wins but 2nd round exits.

I doubt Utah gets to 55. West has too many good teams.

JAZZNC
08-17-2018, 02:15 AM
I feel like Philly/Utah are really close. The one big advantage Utah has is coaching. They are one of the better coached teams in the league and the players just play well together. Philly relies on their big guns and rightfully so, those 2 guys are phenomenal. I also think that people ranking Utah higher are banking on a full season of Gobert, not him missing 1/3 of the season (I unfortunately believe that is wishful thinking).

I think if Philly fans are counting on Fultz making a big comeback why can't the Jazz expect Exum to finally realize half his potential? We also get Thabo back which is a decent addition to the bench.

I have no problem with somebody saying Philly is going to be the better team this year (they will almost certainly have a better record) and I feel that both teams are better than OKC. But I don't think there is a huge difference between Utah and Philly. There is going to be some serious growth from within on both sides IMO. Looking forward to it!

warfelg
08-17-2018, 08:30 AM
I feel like Philly/Utah are really close. The one big advantage Utah has is coaching. They are one of the better coached teams in the league and the players just play well together. Philly relies on their big guns and rightfully so, those 2 guys are phenomenal. I also think that people ranking Utah higher are banking on a full season of Gobert, not him missing 1/3 of the season (I unfortunately believe that is wishful thinking).

I think if Philly fans are counting on Fultz making a big comeback why can't the Jazz expect Exum to finally realize half his potential? We also get Thabo back which is a decent addition to the bench.

I have no problem with somebody saying Philly is going to be the better team this year (they will almost certainly have a better record) and I feel that both teams are better than OKC. But I don't think there is a huge difference between Utah and Philly. There is going to be some serious growth from within on both sides IMO. Looking forward to it!

Fair enough stance.

TBH Iím not expecting a big comeback from Fultz the way some want to make it out to be. Iím just hoping heís going to be a contributing part that shows flashes of more.

I know thereís some expecting him to be a stud day omg (thanks a lot Drew Hanlen); but Iím not there. I think the starting lineup stays the same all year and next year they hope heís the starter.