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View Full Version : Bucks fan, a bad deal on Whiteside that would allow immediate Heat rebuilt?



buckalis
08-04-2018, 09:32 AM
There is this a widely spread rumor all over the web, that the Heat FO is planning to move on a rebuilt with Whitside's contract being the obstacle that prohibits the move...

The proposed (bad for this season) trade is based on the following:
1. That Dragic is too old as to base a future rebuilt upon,
2. That the Heat would want in return ending by this season contracts that would provide at least 20M of additional cap space for next season.
3. That there is hardly any customer out there as to take Hassan's contract after the Blazers resigned Nurkic on a 4/48M deal.

Proposed deal is Dragic + Hassan + Winslow for Bledsoe + D.J. Wilson + Zeller + Henson + Dellavedova + 2020 1st & 2nd.

Henson and Dellavedova are on contract for next season too at 19M worth (for both), but they can be useful as to back up Tyler Johnson & Adebayo in the mean time as to keep the Heat going until a 2-year rebuilt is complete.

Please suggest.

EDIT: Of course the Bucks will play to the finals (with good chances) against GSW next by only doing some minor changes, with three all-stars in the team on Giannis, Dragic & (this year's favorite) Middleton, but this means that we owe you one (which we promise to pay back) and we can keep the East flag high... :hi5:

buckalis
08-04-2018, 01:25 PM
Dragic & Brogdon pick and roll with Giannis, with Middleton scoring at will, Hassan rebounding and rim protection next to Giannis and all periphery capable of shooting 40% 3pts... it sounds scary... no?

beasted86
08-05-2018, 12:16 PM
How about Tyler Johnson and Rodney McGruder for Giannis so that the Bucks can finally rebuild?


I mean since drafting Giannis the best they could do is miss the playoffs once and finish 6th, 6th, and 7th the other years. With my trade you could immediately rebuild. Sounds like a fair trade, right?

lavilevi23
08-05-2018, 12:37 PM
Lol at this bucks fan

buckalis
08-05-2018, 12:57 PM
I said before... it's not meant to be a balanced trade, it is rather a proposal that would allow the Heat to start a rebuild right now, instead of waiting for Hassan's contract to expire and start it.

With the proposed trade, the Heat can re-trade (60 days later) Bledsoe to the Lakers (Lebron wants him) instead of releasing him at the end of the season and get some talented youth + picks in return as to start a rebuild immediately.

buckalis
08-05-2018, 01:03 PM
I mean everybody knows that Dragic & Whiteside are the best players the Heat have, but the circumstances are such, that there is no other team as to shop Hassan's contract with...

buckalis
08-05-2018, 01:14 PM
How about Tyler Johnson and Rodney McGruder for Giannis so that the Bucks can finally rebuild?


I mean since drafting Giannis the best they could do is miss the playoffs once and finish 6th, 6th, and 7th the other years. With my trade you could immediately rebuild. Sounds like a fair trade, right?

What you (ironically) say, is that Giannis should be traded as to build around Giannis!

I don't deny that the Bucks FO has blown a lot of opportunities as to have a more complete roster around Giannis... They've left him without centers able to create space for him and they never landed a PG (like Dragic is) that his game would maximize Giannis abilities. Having Bad contracts on Dellavedova and Henson also added to the situation... but one can't deny that the Bucks where hit with excessive bad luck with injuries on top.

buckalis
08-05-2018, 02:59 PM
Actually I just came across this... https://clutchpoints.com/heat-rumor-hassan-whiteside-tyler-johnson-dion-waiters-all-available-in-trade-talks/ which is not a rumor as it comes from GMs, it is rather a fact.

I'm not sure though that any out of, Tyler or Dion can be traded on a deal that won't include a bad contract in return unless they are sweetened up with talented young assets. Hassan's contract though, should be way more difficult to move, because other than its value, it has the additional problem that coaches tend to undervalue the importance of the Center position in the roster.

Dade County
08-05-2018, 10:29 PM
Dragic & Brogdon pick and roll with Giannis, with Middleton scoring at will, Hassan rebounding and rim protection next to Giannis and all periphery capable of shooting 40% 3pts... it sounds scary... no?

Pat Riley doesn't rebuild like this. His rebuild happens organically. Pat Wants a star player, so Pat would give up a lot for Giannis lol

Miami isn't gong to rebuild to hit rock bottom, even though most fans would welcome this.

Dade County
08-05-2018, 10:31 PM
Trade I can think about that gives each team what they want.

HEAT: (Get rid of Whiteside contract, and bring in better shooting and play making)
Kemba, Khris Middleton, (player with a bad contract from the Hornets or Bucks)

Kemba/ Ty J
JRich/ Ellington
Middleton/ Winslow/ McGruder
JJ/ KO
Bam/ KO

Hornets (Get Younger and more Athletic)
Brogdon, Waiters,Thon Maker

Brogdon/ Parker
Monk
Waiters/ Kidd-Gilchrist
Biyombo/ Kaminsky
Thon Maker/ Zeller


Bucks: (Playoff vets and a defensive center to join Giannis)
Dragic, Batum, Whiteside

Dragic/ Bledsoe/ Dellavedoa
Batum/ Bledsoe
Giannis/ Snell/ Brown
Ilyasova/ Zeller
Whiteside/ Lopez

buckalis
08-06-2018, 05:29 AM
Trade I can think about that gives each team what they want.

HEAT: (Get rid of Whiteside contract, and bring in better shooting and play making)
Kemba, Khris Middleton, (player with a bad contract from the Hornets or Bucks)

Kemba/ Ty J
JRich/ Ellington
Middleton/ Winslow/ McGruder
JJ/ KO
Bam/ KO

Hornets (Get Younger and more Athletic)
Brogdon, Waiters,Thon Maker

Brogdon/ Parker
Monk
Waiters/ Kidd-Gilchrist
Biyombo/ Kaminsky
Thon Maker/ Zeller


Bucks: (Playoff vets and a defensive center to join Giannis)
Dragic, Batum, Whiteside

Dragic/ Bledsoe/ Dellavedoa
Batum/ Bledsoe
Giannis/ Snell/ Brown
Ilyasova/ Zeller
Whiteside/ Lopez

I think the Bucks would pass...

If the Bucks would part from Middleton, it will be for an All-star wing (Butler?). The FO has a ton of offers for him.

Also, there is no way the Bucks would trade for Whiteside without including Henson & Dellavedova in the deal.

Brogdon OTOH, everybody wants him, he either goes packed with Middleton for an all-star, or he stays for ever. His game fits well with Giannis.

I think for you wanting to trade Hassan for only a half price bad contract in return and add 2 assets that there is a cue line asking for them, is extremely optimistic. You are asking for almost as much as Carl Antony Towns would cost. IMO, Hassan will require sweetening to move, his contract is massive and he is rather the traditional type of Center rather than the bigs that can move like wings which seem to be what most coaches prefer these days. If you look to this year's drafts, four out of the first six picks were this kind of bigs, it looks like everybody is looking to find the next Giannis or Karl Antony Towns and settle there as to build around.

Bledsoe OTOH, Lebron wants him next to him and I believe he will sign an extension for less than he makes now in his next contract. We can trade him to the Lakers for Ball + another asset... With Bledsoe the problem is that his game doesn't align well with Giannis (like Brogdon is). IMO, a PG like Dragic or Teodosic is perfect to have next to Giannis. There other teams that Bledsoe's game would fit perfect on with.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
08-06-2018, 09:14 AM
As a Bucks fan I wouldn't want Whiteside. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago. His stock dropped last season or two. Bucks were linked to have interests in Dragic and Whiteside like 2 or 3 years ago. But I guess Pat's counter offer was he wanted Middleton and Parker back then. Then talks died. Also highly doubt Pat goes for a rebuild. Also doubt Pat eats any of our junk contracts of Delly or Henson or Snell.

buckalis
08-06-2018, 09:59 AM
As a Bucks fan I wouldn't want Whiteside. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago. His stock dropped last season or two. Bucks were linked to have interests in Dragic and Whiteside like 2 or 3 years ago. But I guess Pat's counter offer was he wanted Middleton and Parker back then. Then talks died. Also highly doubt Pat goes for a rebuild. Also doubt Pat eats any of our junk contracts of Delly or Henson or Snell.

Well... If Whiteside is sweetened with Winslow and the deal includes Henson & Dellavedova, then why not? He in combination with Lopez being more physical than Henson can create some space for Giannis to take advantage off ... It would certainly be more effective for the Bucks than Henson.

OTOH, Henson's stats aren't much inferior than Hassan's latest ones and Henson would be easier for the Heat to move him being at 2/5ths of the price.

Dade County
08-06-2018, 12:57 PM
I think the Bucks would pass...

If the Bucks would part from Middleton, it will be for an All-star wing (Butler?). The FO has a ton of offers for him.

Depending on what position your front office is looking for, but Dragic is an All Star. And Whiteside has All Star talent, it's just that him and Spo was letting their emotions get the better of them.




Also, there is no way the Bucks would trade for Whiteside without including Henson & Dellavedova in the deal.

I did state that Miami would take on 1 bad contract either from the Hornets or Bucks.



Brogdon OTOH, everybody wants him, he either goes packed with Middleton for an all-star, or he stays for ever. His game fits well with Giannis.

A if you wan to up grand at certain positions, assets have to go in return. This isn't a dream land where you get all your wishes; Pat is the villain in the story and he's going to take what you value the most, if you want to make a deal.


You want Miami to tank and the Bucks get all of are main assets... Where they do that at? Not in Miami.



I think for you wanting to trade Hassan for only a half price bad contract in return and add 2 assets that there is a cue line asking for them, is extremely optimistic.

I stated that Miami will take on 1 bad contract from either the Hornets or Bucks. They would have too, because Dragic and Whiteside contracts are up there.

And for the record, I like Whiteside game, he just let Spo affect him mentally. I rather Whiteside stay in Maimi if he can play hard every play and stop not showing effort because he isn't being featured.



You are asking for almost as much as Carl Antony Towns would cost.

How so? Miami is only getting Middleton from the bucks and a bad contract.

If you are talking about what the Hornets would get, the Bucks need a 3rd team in the deal. Hornets would love to get rid of Batum contract and Miami would like Kemba.

If the Bucks are targeting players like Dragic and Whiteside, they would also love a player like Batum. They want to build a playoff team around Giannis from what you brought up in a trade.



IMO, Hassan will require sweetening to move, his contract is massive and he is rather the traditional type of Center rather than the bigs that can move like wings which seem to be what most coaches prefer these days.

No sir.... You want Whiteside, don't try to flip this around.

If YOU want an assets that means you have need for him. So Pat will force you to give up an asset that he would like.

Or Pat can just do, what he is doing now, by holding on to Whiteside. And I agree with him. (I am one of the only HEAT fans on here, that doesn't want to dump Whiteside for trash.... And Pat feels the same way).



If you look to this year's drafts, four out of the first six picks were this kind of bigs, it looks like everybody is looking to find the next Giannis or Karl Antony Towns and settle there as to build around.

Bledsoe OTOH, Lebron wants him next to him and I believe he will sign an extension for less than he makes now in his next contract. We can trade him to the Lakers for Ball + another asset... With Bledsoe the problem is that his game doesn't align well with Giannis (like Brogdon is). IMO, a PG like Dragic or Teodosic is perfect to have next to Giannis. There other teams that Bledsoe's game would fit perfect on with.

Lakers will not trade Ball for Not Respecting Another NBA Player Name Bledsoe (burn)lol

Dragic is an All Star on a very good contract, so we both know Pat will what something back in return.

buckalis
08-06-2018, 01:29 PM
Alternatives is the answer... Teodosic is 90% of Dragic, 2yrs younger and much cheaper... He is surely available because the Clippers are loaded with talented guards which they can't rotate all. They didn't expect Teodosic to accept his QO (neither did I) and they even invested on Shai G. Alexander on the highest pick they had...

So lets let Dragic out of this, since I can understand that Pat would want to get payed back for him. We can get Teodosic without having to sacrifice Middleton or Brogdon...

Yes, Hassan would improve significantly on Henson, but we aren't prepared to have even more capital than our bad contracts locked.

You are wrong on Bledsoe and the Lakers, Magic consults on Lebron on who to land and who isn't needed and Lebron wants Bledsoe and doesn't want Ball (for other reasons than his game). After Lebron left the Heat, he has changed his policies with the teams he is... Every move requires his approval.

EDIT: Important look at this that Shams Charania tweeted (the addition is my comment on our forum...)
Shams Charania: "Washington’s Markieff Morris and Boston’s Marcus Morris have signed with agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports Group. Both will enter free agency next summer." – via Twitter ShamsCharania

If one links this with Lebron's will, he is right in doing so (same reason why Charania bothered to tweet this)... Bledsoe is there too and Lebron got mad against the CAVs for letting the Bucks land him instead (he was asking for him).
If we propose a deal trading Bledsoe to the Lakers for L. Ball + another asset, it is sure to happen...

Dade County
08-06-2018, 06:50 PM
If we propose a deal trading Bledsoe to the Lakers for L. Ball + another asset, it is sure to happen...

Not happening. You just want Ball as a fan of the Bucks.

Lakers front office isn't the Cavs pushover front office.

Just think about it. Ball 2nd yr in the league, still on rookie contract for a couple of years.

But you want them to add, Not Respecting Another NBA Player Name Bledsoe; onto their roster, when we all know they want to save cap, for a max player, next off season.

buckalis
08-06-2018, 07:45 PM
Not happening. You just want Ball as a fan of the Bucks.

Lakers front office isn't the Cavs pushover front office.

Just think about it. Ball 2nd yr in the league, still on rookie contract for a couple of years.

But you want them to add, Not Respecting Another NBA Player Name Bledsoe; onto their roster, when we all know they want to save cap, for a max player, next off season.

Check this (after 7:00 mins) https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=zIHaquWY4Qk

and then check this: Shams Charania:

"Washington’s Markieff Morris and Boston’s Marcus Morris have signed with agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports Group. Both will enter free agency next summer." – via Twitter ShamsCharania

If one links this tweet with Lebron's will, he is right in doing so (same reason behind Charania bothered to tweet this)... Bledsoe is with Cluch too and Lebron got mad against the CAVs for letting the Bucks land him instead (he was asking for him).

you may then conclude that is sure to happen.

EDIT: Here is the link for Lebron getting mad against the CAVs front office: https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2018/01/24/report-lebron-james-upset-cavs-didnt-land-george-or-bledsoe/ Lebron (share holder at Cluch) follows a different policy with the teams he works after he left the Heat, he takes insurances that he approves on the moves made on the roster as to ensure that it will be the right moves for him to perform better.

EDIT-2: Ball we aren't keeping next, we'll re-trade him 60 days later for a big rookie that resembles Giannis in his game, so that we can play with 2 bigs that can space the floor like wings do and no traditional center, it's either Dragic or Teodosic that fits well behind Giannis to have for PG.