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View Full Version : Cavs Extend Love Another 4 Years



Jeffy25
07-24-2018, 12:04 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24182860/kevin-love-signs-4-year-120m-extension-cleveland-cavaliers

In total, he is under control another 6 years.

Sofnr
07-24-2018, 12:12 PM
His team now. I expect he'll be a much better player without Lebron there. But they're gonna suck.

redsox12
07-24-2018, 12:16 PM
I'm surprised they did this, but it does make him easier to trade if they are bad in the next two years. I could see them spinning him out to somewhere else for a good haul of young players after this year.

Vinylman
07-24-2018, 12:20 PM
they will regret this deal... dude misses a bunch of games and is now locked in until his age 34 year.

This might be the sign that they are trading the team though...

Anyway, I can't see this making it EASIER to move him as some have posted

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2018, 12:26 PM
:laugh2: Wow!!!!

redsox12
07-24-2018, 12:29 PM
they will regret this deal... dude misses a bunch of games and is now locked in until his age 34 year.

This might be the sign that they are trading the team though...

Anyway, I can't see this making it EASIER to move him as some have posted

If he starts the year hot being the go to guy in CLE now, your now trading for multiple years of Love instead of him leaving after this year. CLE can now ask for a big load of young players provided that Love does well.

CLE should now stop trying to trade Krover and go with what they got.

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2018, 12:33 PM
Sorry but this deal is horrible. They should have went full re-build mode, add picks, clear cap space etc. Giving KL 30m a year annually is a bonehead move/ big mistake. Don't they have a 1-10 pick protection this year or it goes to ATL? yea, I think this is a panic move to save some sort of face. Huge Mistake.

redsox12
07-24-2018, 12:42 PM
It could be a huge mistake or it can be a great trade chip, if a East team gets desperate, they can ask Boston, Philly, Bucks, or Toronto for a nice package of young players.

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2018, 12:56 PM
It could be a huge mistake or it can be a great trade chip, if a East team gets desperate, they can ask Boston, Philly, Bucks, or Toronto for a nice package of young players.

for Kevin Love? lmao, they would've been lucky to trade him before for picks etc, now it's practically impossible to trade for a shell of himself player at near a max slot.This is a panic move, Kevin Love is nowhere near the player he was but good for him to get paid. Feel sorry for Cleveland fans, this would piss me off.

TakeYourL
07-24-2018, 01:30 PM
Holy crap, after all the years they had him, they still didn't get the point that he's not good and never was.

I wouldn't want him on my team at any price.

RCarlson85
07-24-2018, 01:49 PM
A non-super star on a $30 mil/yr long-term deal is not easy to trade. He'll be 30 when the season starts and this deal will take him into his mid-30s where he will only be on the decline. He also has a long injury history. This really makes no sense because they should be trying to get draft picks not signing someone like this to a contract like this.

RCarlson85
07-24-2018, 01:52 PM
It could be a huge mistake or it can be a great trade chip, if a East team gets desperate, they can ask Boston, Philly, Bucks, or Toronto for a nice package of young players.

A 30 yr old Kevin Love with a 5/$145 mil contract is by no means a great trade chip. No one is taking that contract on for a guy in his low-mid 30s with his injury history and non-super star status.

MannyWood
07-24-2018, 01:55 PM
This might be where Houston gets out of that Ryan Anderson contract and upgrades the team, maybe in a year when the Cavs find out what they just did.

Anderson, and some other expiring, and a pick or 2.

bleedprple&gold
07-24-2018, 02:12 PM
They will regret this contract in a couple years when they are mired in mediocrity, will try to trade him and fine no takers. Some teams will never learn...

ewing
07-24-2018, 02:19 PM
This guy has gotten them to the finals every year he has been there. Glad he got rewarded


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-24-2018, 02:34 PM
He’s a great player who will probably be a hall of famer. Good deal.

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 02:38 PM
Yeah, I'm with most everyone else on this. I hate this deal for Cleveland. At best, you'll be around .500 the next few years, and the easiest way to ensure you'll never win a championship is to race toward mediocrity and lock in a team long-term that ensures you'll never be good enough to be a serious contender and never be bad enough to get a decent lottery pick.

However, I could be wrong. It's possible that Cleveland will be worse next season than I think. Love's Timberwolves teams were always pretty bad and still managed to get decent picks despite him putting up great numbers. But I don't think they'll be better than a 6-8 seed in the East anytime soon, and if you're the Cavs, that's what you're signing him for: to keep you relevant in the playoff hunt.

I'm curious to get Vee-Rex's thoughts on this. I know the last time he talked about it, he wanted the Cavs to completely blow it up. This is definitely the opposite of that...

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 02:43 PM
He’s a great player who will probably be a hall of famer. Good deal.

C'mon man. If I asked you to list the best players in the NBA, how far down would you go before you got to Kevin Love's name? 25 names? 30? 40? He hasn't been a top 20 guy in this league for years. At best, he's a solid No. 2 on a contender, but even then, he proved last season that he couldn't really be counted on as a reliable No. 2 in a postseason situation.

Love is a classic "good stats, bad team" guy. You're right in that he'll probably be a Hall of Famer some day based on his insane production in Minnesota and being a key contributor on the Cavs' first title team. But how is this a good deal for a team like Cleveland that is already in cap hell and isn't remotely close to contention?

treeleaf
07-24-2018, 02:49 PM
This guy has gotten them to the finals every year he has been there. Glad he got rewarded


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, Love was the reason they were such a good team. In no way shape or form did playing with Lebron make him look better than he actually is.

RowBTrice
07-24-2018, 02:54 PM
This guy has gotten them to the finals every year he has been there. Glad he got rewarded


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FTW!! This was great! lol

WaDe03
07-24-2018, 02:55 PM
C'mon man. If I asked you to list the best players in the NBA, how far down would you go before you got to Kevin Love's name? 25 names? 30? 40? He hasn't been a top 20 guy in this league for years. At best, he's a solid No. 2 on a contender, but even then, he proved last season that he couldn't really be counted on as a reliable No. 2 in a postseason situation.

Love is a classic "good stats, bad team" guy. You're right in that he'll probably be a Hall of Famer some day based on his insane production in Minnesota and being a key contributor on the Cavs' first title team. But how is this a good deal for a team like Cleveland that is already in cap hell and isn't remotely close to contention?

Fits what they want, they didn’t want to be a bad team is what the reports are saying. Apparently tbey still want to be competitive and with Love and the rest they should be solid. This deal gives them what they want.

To be fair, when has Loves strongest point of his game ever been catch and shoot 3s? His usage should be much higher now and maybe they’ll actually put him where he’s most effective now.

Scoots
07-24-2018, 03:17 PM
This guy has gotten them to the finals every year he has been there. Glad he got rewarded

Winner!

treeleaf
07-24-2018, 03:23 PM
Winner!

It was so good I took it seriously. Lmao

Burkey3472
07-24-2018, 03:40 PM
They probably should have gone full rebuild but I don't really trust them making high picks anyway and would probably end up like Orlando or the Kings if they went that route. At least now All Star caliber player (in the East) that can put fans in the seats and they will still be bad enough to get decent draft picks.

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 04:08 PM
Fits what they want, they didn’t want to be a bad team is what the reports are saying. Apparently tbey still want to be competitive and with Love and the rest they should be solid. This deal gives them what they want.

To be fair, when has Loves strongest point of his game ever been catch and shoot 3s? His usage should be much higher now and maybe they’ll actually put him where he’s most effective now.

But forget about what "they want" for a second and ask yourself "What actually makes sense for the franchise?" Owners are notoriously bad at making decisions for the benefit of the team long-term, and Gilbert is probably among the worst owners in the league. The team is obviously a dumpster fire without Lebron, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that.

Even if Love turns back into the guy he was at his peak in Minnesota, you can't tell me that you'd be afraid to face this team in the playoffs as currently constructed.

MannyWood
07-24-2018, 04:11 PM
But forget about what "they want" for a second and ask yourself "What actually makes sense for the franchise?" Owners are notoriously bad at making decisions for the benefit of the team long-term, and Gilbert is probably among the worst owners in the league. The team is obviously a dumpster fire without Lebron, and it doesn't take a rockets scientist to recognize that.

Even if Love turns back into the guy he was at his peak in Minnesota, you can't tell me that you'd be afraid to face this team in the playoffs as currently constructed.

If they make the playoffs for a few years, it is financially worth it.

beasted86
07-24-2018, 04:13 PM
I feel like guys in his similar mold have fallen of a cliff with a boulder strapped on their back past 30 years old.

David Lee, Troy Murphy, etc... the guys who you said are an automatic double-double and have the outside shooting that should let them age well have all mostly done the opposite. They turn in to straight garbage overnight following an injury.

This is easily one of the top 3 least attractive contacts in the NBA for that fact.

WaDe03
07-24-2018, 05:01 PM
But forget about what "they want" for a second and ask yourself "What actually makes sense for the franchise?" Owners are notoriously bad at making decisions for the benefit of the team long-term, and Gilbert is probably among the worst owners in the league. The team is obviously a dumpster fire without Lebron, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that.

Even if Love turns back into the guy he was at his peak in Minnesota, you can't tell me that you'd be afraid to face this team in the playoffs as currently constructed.

Yea I would’ve absolutely traded him and began a rebuild but I guess Gilbert wants to be as competitive as possible for awhile.

Vee-Rex
07-24-2018, 05:16 PM
Yeah, I'm with most everyone else on this. I hate this deal for Cleveland. At best, you'll be around .500 the next few years, and the easiest way to ensure you'll never win a championship is to race toward mediocrity and lock in a team long-term that ensures you'll never be good enough to be a serious contender and never be bad enough to get a decent lottery pick.

However, I could be wrong. It's possible that Cleveland will be worse next season than I think. Love's Timberwolves teams were always pretty bad and still managed to get decent picks despite him putting up great numbers. But I don't think they'll be better than a 6-8 seed in the East anytime soon, and if you're the Cavs, that's what you're signing him for: to keep you relevant in the playoff hunt.

I'm curious to get Vee-Rex's thoughts on this. I know the last time he talked about it, he wanted the Cavs to completely blow it up. This is definitely the opposite of that...

I wanted a blow up but only if it meant getting back assets in return.

Jason Lloyd of the athletic said that the Cavs couldn't get pennies for Kevin Love. His trade value is shot. He's very one-dimensional and was only there for one more year - meaning he could/would bolt from his new team after being a rental. This drastically lowered his value.

Instead of dealing him for a late 20's pick or a pair of 2nd round picks, the Cavs decided that they might as well keep a guy who WANTS to stay, who is a 5-time all star that can probably still put up 24ppg as a primary option.

The kicker is that his value may increase at the trade deadline as some playoff/good team might get really desperate, and they'd rather have a 30 year old on 4 years than a 30 year old half-year rental.

Lastly, Gilbert and company wanted to avoid the catastrophe of another LeBron James decision. Jason Lloyd said that the Cavs organization in 2010 following LeBron's decision was imploding. They lost like 26 games straight, and 36 of 37 games, and he says the team was at the lowest he could ever remember. It was no fun for anyone. With Love, Sexton, Nance, Osman, and some of the other vets, the Cavs shouldn't be bottom of the barrel.

I'd PREFER a blow-up, but that's assuming we can get SOME kind of value for Love (and according to Lloyd we couldn't). I can feel it and I'm okay with this direction.

Leftcoast_yg
07-24-2018, 06:21 PM
C'mon man. If I asked you to list the best players in the NBA, how far down would you go before you got to Kevin Love's name? 25 names? 30? 40? He hasn't been a top 20 guy in this league for years. At best, he's a solid No. 2 on a contender, but even then, he proved last season that he couldn't really be counted on as a reliable No. 2 in a postseason situation.

Love is a classic "good stats, bad team" guy. You're right in that he'll probably be a Hall of Famer some day based on his insane production in Minnesota and being a key contributor on the Cavs' first title team. But how is this a good deal for a team like Cleveland that is already in cap hell and isn't remotely close to contention?

Don't worry the nba will bail them out by giving them 3 1st overall for 2 straight years and in case they phook that up, another 1st after the next draft.

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 06:34 PM
I wanted a blow up but only if it meant getting back assets in return.

Jason Lloyd of the athletic said that the Cavs couldn't get pennies for Kevin Love. His trade value is shot. He's very one-dimensional and was only there for one more year - meaning he could/would bolt from his new team after being a rental. This drastically lowered his value.

Instead of dealing him for a late 20's pick or a pair of 2nd round picks, the Cavs decided that they might as well keep a guy who WANTS to stay, who is a 5-time all star that can probably still put up 24ppg as a primary option.

The kicker is that his value may increase at the trade deadline as some playoff/good team might get really desperate, and they'd rather have a 30 year old on 4 years than a 30 year old half-year rental.

Lastly, Gilbert and company wanted to avoid the catastrophe of another LeBron James decision. Jason Lloyd said that the Cavs organization in 2010 following LeBron's decision was imploding. They lost like 26 games straight, and 36 of 37 games, and he says the team was at the lowest he could ever remember. It was no fun for anyone. With Love, Sexton, Nance, Osman, and some of the other vets, the Cavs shouldn't be bottom of the barrel.

I'd PREFER a blow-up, but that's assuming we can get SOME kind of value for Love (and according to Lloyd we couldn't). I can feel it and I'm okay with this direction.

That's fair. But I'm curious about what your expectations are for the team moving forward. Do you see them as still being in that playoff conversation as a competitive team? Or will they be a .500-ish team struggling to crack the top 8? And would you be surprised if they won 30 games next year and went into full tank mode by mid-season?

Vee-Rex
07-24-2018, 06:46 PM
That's fair. But I'm curious about what your expectations are for the team moving forward. Do you see them as still being in that playoff conversation as a competitive team? Or will they be a .500-ish team struggling to crack the top 8? And would you be surprised if they won 30 games next year and went into full tank mode by mid-season?

I don't see us being a competitive playoff team at all, not with Lue as coach.

I think we'll win somewhere in the mid 30's. Maybe 36-46. While I do think Love had an underrated year last year (it was pretty good - ~18ppg on only 12FGA per game, 46%FG and 41%3PT, 9 RBpg all while only playing 28mpg), he's still trash on defense and injury prone. He missed 23 games last year, 22 games the year before that.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if we tanked or was even fighting on the outskirts for the 8th seed (I think Cedi is gonna have a good year).

BKLYNpigeon
07-24-2018, 07:00 PM
Stupid signing.

Cavs will lose their top 10 protected pick they traded to Atlanta for Korver.

Vee-Rex
07-24-2018, 07:03 PM
Stupid signing.

Cavs will lose their top 10 protected pick they traded to Atlanta for Korver.

Word is the 2019 draft is gonna be weak, and the 2020 draft is gonna be HUGE.

If we keep our 2019 pick, Atlanta will have the exact same dibs on the 2020 pick and we gotta do this rodeo all over again. But if we lose the 2019 pick, then the 2020 pick is ours.

Those are some mental gymnastics for sure, but I imagine the Cavs brass will have options at the trade deadline after Love's value is brought up (due to better numbers and a longer contract). We'll see how it goes.

steamroller
07-24-2018, 07:05 PM
I don't see us being a competitive playoff team at all, not with Lue as coach.

I think we'll win somewhere in the mid 30's. Maybe 36-46. While I do think Love had an underrated year last year (it was pretty good - ~18ppg on only 12FGA per game, 46%FG and 41%3PT, 9 RBpg all while only playing 28mpg), he's still trash on defense and injury prone. He missed 23 games last year, 22 games the year before that.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if we tanked or was even fighting on the outskirts for the 8th seed (I think Cedi is gonna have a good year).

That's the cavs' REAL problem. Lue's not even bright enough to be a ballboy, much less an nba head coach.

As of right now, sans any further moves, the cave are a 35-38 win team. If Love can play closer to a full season he can move the needle closer to a .500 season.

But yeah, Lue's only function is as a tank commander and as Lebrun front/yes man.

More-Than-Most
07-24-2018, 07:35 PM
i get why they did it but its still stupid. He literally wont help win many games

redsox12
07-24-2018, 07:38 PM
I wanted a blow up but only if it meant getting back assets in return.

Jason Lloyd of the athletic said that the Cavs couldn't get pennies for Kevin Love. His trade value is shot. He's very one-dimensional and was only there for one more year - meaning he could/would bolt from his new team after being a rental. This drastically lowered his value.

Instead of dealing him for a late 20's pick or a pair of 2nd round picks, the Cavs decided that they might as well keep a guy who WANTS to stay, who is a 5-time all star that can probably still put up 24ppg as a primary option.

The kicker is that his value may increase at the trade deadline as some playoff/good team might get really desperate, and they'd rather have a 30 year old on 4 years than a 30 year old half-year rental.

Lastly, Gilbert and company wanted to avoid the catastrophe of another LeBron James decision. Jason Lloyd said that the Cavs organization in 2010 following LeBron's decision was imploding. They lost like 26 games straight, and 36 of 37 games, and he says the team was at the lowest he could ever remember. It was no fun for anyone. With Love, Sexton, Nance, Osman, and some of the other vets, the Cavs shouldn't be bottom of the barrel.

I'd PREFER a blow-up, but that's assuming we can get SOME kind of value for Love (and according to Lloyd we couldn't). I can feel it and I'm okay with this direction.

See that's what I've been saying, if he performs well, he could be a really nice trade piece. It's better than letting him go for nothing.

Vee-Rex
07-24-2018, 07:43 PM
See that's what I've been saying, if he performs well, he could be a really nice trade piece. It's better than letting him go for nothing.

Yep. Big picture stuff.

I get both sides, I just think we'll have to wait and see how it goes before making any concrete conclusions.

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2018, 08:08 PM
Word is the 2019 draft is gonna be weak, and the 2020 draft is gonna be HUGE.

If we keep our 2019 pick, Atlanta will have the exact same dibs on the 2020 pick and we gotta do this rodeo all over again. But if we lose the 2019 pick, then the 2020 pick is ours.

Those are some mental gymnastics for sure, but I imagine the Cavs brass will have options at the trade deadline after Love's value is brought up (due to better numbers and a longer contract). We'll see how it goes.

I'll tell you one thing, we had to endure something similar as Lakers fans recently and it drives you crazy rooting for your team to lose lmfao

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 08:16 PM
ESPN ranked Love #26 in the last offseason ranking and it's likely he'll rank at about the same this offseason.

per 36: 23 ppg, 12 rpg, PER of 22.4, TS% of 61%.

Those are elite/near elite numbers. He's easily an Allstar in the east, borderline all star in the west.

The notion that he isn't even a top 40 player just shows how dumb you are. And yet you believe Carmelo Anthony can help the rockets win a championship! LMAO!

I never said he wasn't a top 40 player, chief. I was asking someone else's opinion of him. And you can't use per 36 numbers as if they're the player's actual per game stats. That's a little absurd.

As for the other stuff, I'm not going to respond to it. You're going to have to troll with a little more subtlety than that. Also, didn't you just criticize me yesterday for posting too much? For someone who criticizes others for having too much time on their hands for posting in a sports forum, you certainly go out of your way to troll me an awful lot. Don't you have anything better to do?

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 08:18 PM
See that's what I've been saying, if he performs well, he could be a really nice trade piece. It's better than letting him go for nothing.

I'm not saying he can't be a decent trade chip if he performs well, but he's got to perform a lot better and more consistently to justify that contract.

GREATNESS ONE
07-24-2018, 08:19 PM
lmao "melo"

steamroller
07-24-2018, 08:38 PM
I never said he wasn't a top 40 player, chief. I was asking someone else's opinion of him. And you can't use per 36 numbers as if they're the player's actual per game stats. That's a little absurd.

As for the other stuff, I'm not going to respond to it. You're going to have to troll with a little more subtlety than that. Also, didn't you just criticize me yesterday for posting too much? For someone who criticizes others for having too much time on their hands for posting in a sports forum, you certainly go out of your way to troll me an awful lot. Don't you have anything better to do?

This type of backtracking is such a ****** move. You question whether he's a top 40 player then claim you never said he wasn't a top 40 player. As in "is she the ugliest girl you've ever seen?" then backtracking to "I never said she was ugly!"

Love was an 18/9 player with limited minutes coming back from injuries. Yet he still managed a 61% ts%, 88% from the line, and 42% from 3's. Those are phenomenal numbers especially considering how few minutes he played and how few touches he actually got playing alongside Lebrun. Not to mention his difficulties coming back from injuries.

He's a legit top 30 player, even considering his injuries, and limited defensive game.

And no one's trolling you. You yourself admit that you don't know anything about basketball. That's why you honestly don't know if Love is top 20 or outside of the top 40. I just stated the obvious which is that you don't actually know anything about the game of basketball.

mightybosstone
07-24-2018, 08:48 PM
This type of backtracking is such a ****** move. You question whether he's a top 40 player then claim you never said he wasn't a top 40 player. As in "is she the ugliest girl you've ever seen?" then backtracking to "I never said she was ugly!"
Work on your reading comprehension skills, dude. I asked the guy where he ranked Love. In no way does that indicate where I would personally rank him. Would I rank him in my top 40? Probably, but it's certainly a question at this point. There was a "rank the best players in the league" thread a few months back, and I listed out my top 25-30 guys, and Love was not on that list. He's probably somewhere in that 30-35 range for me, but given the sharp increase in young talent we've seen over the last two seasons, it's hardly a foregone conclusion that any player is safely in that top 25 conversation anymore just because they typically have been previously.


Love was an 18/9 player with limited minutes coming back from injuries. Yet he still managed a 61% ts%, 88% from the line, and 42% from 3's. Those are phenomenal numbers especially considering how few minutes he played and how few touches he actually got playing alongside Lebrun. Not to mention his difficulties coming back from injuries.
He also missed a quarter of the season, only averaged 28 minutes a night and completely no-showed in the playoffs, posting only 15/10 on 39 percent shooting with a 51.1 percent TS%, a 15.5 PER and a .073 WS/48. So it's safe to say you're leaving out quite a bit of Love's season to justify your argument here.


He's a legit top 30 player, even considering his injuries, and limited defensive game.

Could he be? Sure. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion anymore. If he was in the West, he almost certainly wouldn't have cracked the All-Star team, he's had four pretty underwhelming postseason performances the last four seasons and he's missed a quarter of the season in back-to-back years. Lists like that are subjective, but I can certainly find 30 guys in the league I'd rather have on my team right now than Kevin Love, regardless of age or contract.

Scoots
07-24-2018, 09:17 PM
I never said he wasn't a top 40 player, chief. I was asking someone else's opinion of him. And you can't use per 36 numbers as if they're the player's actual per game stats. That's a little absurd.

As for the other stuff, I'm not going to respond to it. You're going to have to troll with a little more subtlety than that. Also, didn't you just criticize me yesterday for posting too much? For someone who criticizes others for having too much time on their hands for posting in a sports forum, you certainly go out of your way to troll me an awful lot. Don't you have anything better to do?

*whispers* you can't say anything bad about Love, he went to UCLA and all LA things are protected by LABron's magical aura.

GiantsSwaGG
07-24-2018, 10:26 PM
Atrocious contract

c.c.
07-24-2018, 11:50 PM
I wanted a blow up but only if it meant getting back assets in return.

Jason Lloyd of the athletic said that the Cavs couldn't get pennies for Kevin Love. His trade value is shot. He's very one-dimensional and was only there for one more year - meaning he could/would bolt from his new team after being a rental. This drastically lowered his value.

Instead of dealing him for a late 20's pick or a pair of 2nd round picks, the Cavs decided that they might as well keep a guy who WANTS to stay, who is a 5-time all star that can probably still put up 24ppg as a primary option.

The kicker is that his value may increase at the trade deadline as some playoff/good team might get really desperate, and they'd rather have a 30 year old on 4 years than a 30 year old half-year rental.

Lastly, Gilbert and company wanted to avoid the catastrophe of another LeBron James decision. Jason Lloyd said that the Cavs organization in 2010 following LeBron's decision was imploding. They lost like 26 games straight, and 36 of 37 games, and he says the team was at the lowest he could ever remember. It was no fun for anyone. With Love, Sexton, Nance, Osman, and some of the other vets, the Cavs shouldn't be bottom of the barrel.

I'd PREFER a blow-up, but that's assuming we can get SOME kind of value for Love (and according to Lloyd we couldn't). I can feel it and I'm okay with this direction.

That’s how you treat a guy who “wants” to be there? Tell him how important and much he means to the franchise to create a chip on his shoulder then ship him off to the highest bidder after he feels accomplished and settled in town.

If that is Dan Gilbert plans then I hope it blows up in his face.

MannyWood
07-25-2018, 12:01 AM
That’s how you treat a guy who “wants” to be there? Tell him how important and much he means to the franchise to create a chip on his shoulder then ship him off to the highest bidder after he feels accomplished and settled in town.

If that is Dan Gilbert plans then I hope it blows up in his face.

Why? Love should be happy even if traded. Gilbert just gave him a contract that he wasn't going to get anywhere else.

cmellofan15
07-25-2018, 12:20 AM
Lmao classic Cavs move

c.c.
07-25-2018, 12:50 AM
Why? Love should be happy even if traded. Gilbert just gave him a contract that he wasn't going to get anywhere else.

I can see teams with not so appealing markets but need another player to boost contention throw a deal like this to him.

Kinda like Denver and Millsap

steamroller
07-25-2018, 01:00 AM
Nah, you already *****ed out: "Is he actually a top 40 player?!?" to "I didn't say he wasn't in the top 40!" Stop backtracking like a *****. You were obviously implying he was not a top 40 player.

Also, citing playoff stats when Love was playing with a broken hand isn't lending you any more credibility than you already have, which is none.

Posting 18/9 on 61ts% on limited minutes, recovering from injuries and/or playing injured is not an easy feat.

Not to mention he had to change his game completely, going from a 1st option to a catch and shoot stretch 4, i.e. a "go stand in the corner" role player.

He was overrated in Minny. He's been underrated in Cleveland.

He's an overpay but he gives them continuity with a championship roster, a mature veteran presence, and he counter balances the knuckleheads like jr who are still around, encouraging the kids to get into trouble and smoke weed and basically give no effort whatsoever.


Work on your reading comprehension skills, dude. I asked the guy where he ranked Love. In no way does that indicate where I would personally rank him. Would I rank him in my top 40? Probably, but it's certainly a question at this point. There was a "rank the best players in the league" thread a few months back, and I listed out my top 25-30 guys, and Love was not on that list. He's probably somewhere in that 30-35 range for me, but given the sharp increase in young talent we've seen over the last two seasons, it's hardly a foregone conclusion that any player is safely in that top 25 conversation anymore just because they typically have been previously.


He also missed a quarter of the season, only averaged 28 minutes a night and completely no-showed in the playoffs, posting only 15/10 on 39 percent shooting with a 51.1 percent TS%, a 15.5 PER and a .073 WS/48. So it's safe to say you're leaving out quite a bit of Love's season to justify your argument here.


Could he be? Sure. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion anymore. If he was in the West, he almost certainly wouldn't have cracked the All-Star team, he's had four pretty underwhelming postseason performances the last four seasons and he's missed a quarter of the season in back-to-back years. Lists like that are subjective, but I can certainly find 30 guys in the league I'd rather have on my team right now than Kevin Love, regardless of age or contract.

steamroller
07-25-2018, 01:06 AM
tl, dr: GM Lebron gave Love a limited role with limited minutes and limited touches and Love did the most that anyone could do when placed in that situation.

Lebron and Kyrie are two of the most ball dominant players in the game today. There was no possibility of Love putting up Minny type numbers with Lebron and Kyrie dribbling out the clock in just about every last possession.

Let's see if the Cavs can sign a 2nd star. Tanking doesn't work for everyone. The lakers got pretty much nowhere with it whereas the Sixers are thriving. Some teams like the Spurs get amazing players in the 2nd round.

Cleveland is taking a middle road approach, so let's see if it works out for them.

ewing
07-25-2018, 06:12 AM
Yes, Love was the reason they were such a good team. In no way shape or form did playing with Lebron make him look better than he actually is.

Other way around. Love is the one who sacrificed his stats and adapted his game so LeBron would look better


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-25-2018, 07:37 AM
It could be a huge mistake or it can be a great trade chip, if a East team gets desperate, they can ask Boston, Philly, Bucks, or Toronto for a nice package of young players.

$30M per? Nah no thanks. Wont be all good players. More like lots of junk salaries in return with maybe a late first round pick or a so so player on rookie contract yet.

mightybosstone
07-25-2018, 08:31 AM
Nah, you already *****ed out: "Is he actually a top 40 player?!?" to "I didn't say he wasn't in the top 40!" Stop backtracking like a *****. You were obviously implying he was not a top 40 player.

Also, citing playoff stats when Love was playing with a broken hand isn't lending you any more credibility than you already have, which is none.

Posting 18/9 on 61ts% on limited minutes, recovering from injuries and/or playing injured is not an easy feat.

Not to mention he had to change his game completely, going from a 1st option to a catch and shoot stretch 4, i.e. a "go stand in the corner" role player.

He was overrated in Minny. He's been underrated in Cleveland.

He's an overpay but he gives them continuity with a championship roster, a mature veteran presence, and he counter balances the knuckleheads like jr who are still around, encouraging the kids to get into trouble and smoke weed and basically give no effort whatsoever.

I know what I wrote, and the intention of my words. You're allowed to interpret them however you want, but I can assure you that you're not interpreting them the same way I did when I wrote them. I'm not "backtracking." Also, you didn't quote me correctly, so you shouldn't be using quotation marks. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

As for Love, why do you keep making excuses for the guy? He's missed a huge chunk of the last two seasons, his minutes keep getting reduced and his playoff numbers have been bad pretty much since he's been in Cleveland with the exception of those first few games that first year before he got hurt.

You can make all the excuses in the world for the guy, but even you just admitted he's overpaid. And it's certainly not a lock that he's a top 30 player in the league anymore.

On your point about "continuity with a championship roster," that's not true at all. It was a championship roster with Lebron and Kyrie. Without them, that roster is mediocre at best. They're a borderline playoff team at this point.

Vinylman
07-25-2018, 12:35 PM
I can see teams with not so appealing markets but need another player to boost contention throw a deal like this to him.

Kinda like Denver and Millsap

lol milsaps deal was 3 years … not an extension covering 5 total years

This is a net negative deal … it isn't even a question... they will be happy to unload this deal after the next 3 years.

I am willing to bet his 3 point % is back down to around 36% next year... no LBJ open 3's coming his way

prodigy
07-25-2018, 12:39 PM
Sorry but this deal is horrible. They should have went full re-build mode

He's easier to trade now and get a good haul in return. If they want but the return value is still in question.

But The cavs can't just rebuild forever. The chances of Trading Love for really good young players isn't that likely. Love honestly will prob play much better without lebron. Wouldn't be shocked to see numbers closer to Wolves Era. Cavs are hoping Sexton shows great talent, But still try to be in the lottery to snag a good young player.

Love, Sexton, High draft pick, Try to land a Good FA.

If things pan out Cavs could be a good team again in a couple years. Just blowing up the team guarantees nothing.

steamroller
07-25-2018, 01:38 PM
Making excuses? Was he injured or not? Did he have a broken hand or not? To you, all facts are irrelevant. Citing objective injury history is "making excuses" lol. You're so delusional, it's laughable.

So Lebron has no "championship pedigree" or a "championship" at all. As a matter of fact, the only time we can talk about Jordan's championships is when we talk about Luc Longley's contributions and Ron Harper's as well, so, you know, they don't feel excluded.

It's interesting to read your posts. You're so disconnected from reality you actually believe what you're writing lol.

Let's not mention James Harden's MVP either. What is it based on, really? In large part it's due to charging head on into the lane, throwing his ball and body into his opponent, and drawing fouls. On the perimeter, he hooks his opponent's arm while he shoots, using the opposite arm from the ref's side, in order to draw fouls. He has the cheapest mvp in league history.

Notice in the playoffs, once these phantom foul calls start to disappear, his efficiency drops to the league average, from 62% to 55%. And his slightly above average 3pt% dropped to under 25% against Golden State. In other words, against GSW, without his histrionics benefitting him, he was posting sub Dante Exum efficiency numbers.

At least Love was injured. Hardon had no such excuse.

This is a league where true accomplishments mean nothing when clowns like TravelBrook and whoremongers like Hardon are voted league MVP's.

Anyway, keep on passively aggressively *****ing out in the future. It's your MO.


I know what I wrote, and the intention of my words. You're allowed to interpret them however you want, but I can assure you that you're not interpreting them the same way I did when I wrote them. I'm not "backtracking." Also, you didn't quote me correctly, so you shouldn't be using quotation marks. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

As for Love, why do you keep making excuses for the guy? He's missed a huge chunk of the last two seasons, his minutes keep getting reduced and his playoff numbers have been bad pretty much since he's been in Cleveland with the exception of those first few games that first year before he got hurt.

You can make all the excuses in the world for the guy, but even you just admitted he's overpaid. And it's certainly not a lock that he's a top 30 player in the league anymore.

On your point about "continuity with a championship roster," that's not true at all. It was a championship roster with Lebron and Kyrie. Without them, that roster is mediocre at best. They're a borderline playoff team at this point.

mightybosstone
07-25-2018, 01:45 PM
Making excuses? Was he injured or not? Did he have a broken hand or not? To you, all facts are irrelevant. Citing objective injury history is "making excuses" lol. You're so delusional, it's laughable.

So Lebron has no "championship pedigree" or a "championship" at all. As a matter of fact, the only time we can talk about Jordan's championships is when we talk about Luc Longley's contributions and Ron Harper's as well, so, you know, they don't feel excluded.

It's interesting to read your posts. You're so disconnected from reality you actually believe what you're writing lol.

Let's not mention James Harden's MVP either. What is it based on, really? In large part it's due to charging head on into the lane, throwing his ball and body into his opponent, and drawing fouls. On the perimeter, he hooks his opponent's arm while he shoots, using the opposite arm from the ref's side, in order to draw fouls. He has the cheapest mvp in league history.

Notice in the playoffs, once these phantom foul calls start to disappear, his efficiency drops to the league average, from 62% to 55%. And his slightly above average 3pt% dropped to under 25% against Golden State. In other words, against GSW, without his histrionics benefitting him, he was posting sub Dante Exum efficiency numbers.

At least Love was injured. Hardon had no such excuse.

This is a league where true accomplishments mean nothing when clowns like TravelBrook and whoremongers like Hardon are voted league MVP's.

Anyway, keep on passively aggressively *****ing out in the future. It's your MO.

Yeah... you're just going so off the rails here, it's not worth my time to debate with you anymore. You're officially on the ignore list. But you keep doing you, man. Don't let my complete disinterest in anything you write prevent you from trolling. It's clearly something you're very passionate about, and I don't want to take that away from you.

Jeffy25
07-25-2018, 02:04 PM
I don't hate the extension as much as everyone else.

I think Love is a typical stat padding rebounding stretch.

But he is the kind of guy a team can consistently throw out there.

He wasn't going to produce next to LeBron, because really no stars ever can or could. I do think Love is going to go back to 22/12 games or so with minutes and shots going up.

I'd like to see him with a good play making point guard and a good defensive team though.

Cavs are a 30 win team though, and one could argue they should just rebuild. If you could trade Love for a top 5 pick, you do it in a heart beat.

steamroller
07-25-2018, 02:21 PM
I don't hate the extension as much as everyone else.

I think Love is a typical stat padding rebounding stretch.

But he is the kind of guy a team can consistently throw out there.

He wasn't going to produce next to LeBron, because really no stars ever can or could. I do think Love is going to go back to 22/12 games or so with minutes and shots going up.

I'd like to see him with a good play making point guard and a good defensive team though.

Cavs are a 30 win team though, and one could argue they should just rebuild. If you could trade Love for a top 5 pick, you do it in a heart beat.

That's ridiculous. Lebrun's probably good for about 14 wins. That would put the Cavs in the high 30's. It could be a bit more though if Love can stay healthy and produce like a no. 1 option. This is the EC after all.

Mid 40's is a bit too optimistic. 30 with a healthy roster is just silly. 35-40 is realistic. Maybe they can make a move or two and bump it up to low 40's.

I wouldn't have a problem betting on a 38 win season. I hope they win more though. Lebron literally attempted to loot and rob the team by signing all of his friends to ridiculous deals and I hope the team, franchise and city come out the other end with good prospects.

Lebron left town like a deadbeat dad after using up his hoe and robbing her of all her jewelry, but Dan Gilbert handled his cheap tricks with class.

c.c.
07-25-2018, 04:22 PM
lol milsaps deal was 3 years … not an extension covering 5 total years

This is a net negative deal … it isn't even a question... they will be happy to unload this deal after the next 3 years.

I am willing to bet his 3 point % is back down to around 36% next year... no LBJ open 3's coming his way

Didn’t compare deals, I compared situations. Basically saying one mans trash is another mans treasure.

Atlanta didn’t offer Millsap nothing then he got 30 million from Denver.

Cleveland could of let him walk next year (or whenever his contracts up) or offer him a low number but I’m almost certain he could get a big contract elsewhere.

Millsap being older, undersized, etc. made him easy to compare

Vinylman
07-25-2018, 05:16 PM
Didn’t compare deals, I compared situations. Basically saying one mans trash is another mans treasure.

Atlanta didn’t offer Millsap nothing then he got 30 million from Denver.

Cleveland could of let him walk next year (or whenever his contracts up) or offer him a low number but I’m almost certain he could get a big contract elsewhere.

Millsap being older, undersized, etc. made him easy to compare

I guess you missed the point and made my point all in one post lol

Milsap is trash also and should never have been given the deal Denver did... ATL dodged a bullet...


that's the point... just because someone else might offer a deal doesn't mean you need to

Chronz
07-25-2018, 09:20 PM
That's ridiculous. Lebrun's probably good for about 14 wins. That would put the Cavs in the high 30's. It could be a bit more though if Love can stay healthy and produce like a no. 1 option. This is the EC after all.

Mid 40's is a bit too optimistic. 30 with a healthy roster is just silly. 35-40 is realistic. Maybe they can make a move or two and bump it up to low 40's.

I wouldn't have a problem betting on a 38 win season. I hope they win more though. Lebron literally attempted to loot and rob the team by signing all of his friends to ridiculous deals and I hope the team, franchise and city come out the other end with good prospects.

Lebron left town like a deadbeat dad after using up his hoe and robbing her of all her jewelry, but Dan Gilbert handled his cheap tricks with class.

Incorrect, it was either sign them or not win a chip. It's more like bron found a hooker, turned her into a classy broad for awhile until realizing you can't take the ho outta hoodrat

TrustJoseph
07-26-2018, 12:12 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24182860/kevin-love-signs-4-year-120m-extension-cleveland-cavaliers

In total, he is under control another 6 years.
This is love favorite role being on a bottom team, he'll surely average 30-10 the next few years now.

beasted86
07-26-2018, 12:47 AM
Cavs can't win high 30s next season. They not only lost their best offensive player, but also defensive player.

Love will put up 22/10 but their defense prohibits them from finishing any higher than 10th or later. I agree they are about a 30 win team.

cmellofan15
07-26-2018, 01:58 AM
Cavs can't win high 30s next season. They not only lost their best offensive player, but also defensive player.

Love will put up 22/10 but their defense prohibits them from finishing any higher than 10th or later. I agree they are about a 30 win team.

Who were you saying was their best defensive player? Pretty much everyone on that defense looked atrocious last year

GREATNESS ONE
07-26-2018, 02:10 AM
Who were you saying was their best defensive player? Pretty much everyone on that defense looked atrocious last year

Larry Nance Jr

steamroller
07-26-2018, 02:15 AM
Cavs can't win high 30s next season. They not only lost their best offensive player, but also defensive player.

Love will put up 22/10 but their defense prohibits them from finishing any higher than 10th or later. I agree they are about a 30 win team.

Man, I see we have the cream of the crop posters on this forum.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-26-2018, 08:08 AM
I don't hate the extension as much as everyone else.

I think Love is a typical stat padding rebounding stretch.

But he is the kind of guy a team can consistently throw out there.

He wasn't going to produce next to LeBron, because really no stars ever can or could. I do think Love is going to go back to 22/12 games or so with minutes and shots going up.

I'd like to see him with a good play making point guard and a good defensive team though.

Cavs are a 30 win team though, and one could argue they should just rebuild. If you could trade Love for a top 5 pick, you do it in a heart beat.

Doubt any win now playoff teams have a top 5 pick. Maybe a lottery team that wants to turn it around fast like Suns maybe could trade for him. They were linked to have interests in him previously. Blazers maybe want him. But they have no top 5 pick.

TheDish87
07-26-2018, 08:45 AM
i was watching, i think at least, PTI the other day and they made some good points about this move for the Cavs. Mainly focused on how they are trying to help Sexton succeed by having some quality talent around him and i believe the Cavs will be freeing up a ton of space by the time Loves deal ends. I think the hardest thing in Philly for guys like MCW and Okafor was being asked to carry the load on such poor teams as rookies, thats a lot to ask players who arent nearly ready for that role and have no one to help them out whose worthwhile. They each obviously had and still have their own issues for their lack of success but I always thought it was such a hard situation to be in. Not so much the losing just the sheer lack of talent to play with to resolve some pressure.

prodigy
07-26-2018, 10:25 AM
Incorrect, it was either sign them or not win a chip. It's more like bron found a hooker, turned her into a classy broad for awhile until realizing you can't take the ho outta hoodrat

no reason to bring up Lebrons mom. smh... be respectful

prodigy
07-26-2018, 10:30 AM
The number of cavs wins depends on these things...

1. Love
2. Sextons development
3. Do the cavs wanna win? They lose their draft pick if its not in the lottery.
4. other young guys improvements like Nance, Osman, Zizic

My post earlier mentioned what i see happening. Love will play well but cavs will prob find ways to sit him. Hope sexton improves but still be a lottery team so they can get another high pick. Use Love, Sexton and high pick to help convince a good FA to come over next off-season.

GiantsSwaGG
07-26-2018, 10:44 AM
Love - SEX ton is a nice duo

mrblisterdundee
07-26-2018, 12:28 PM
I'm excited to see Love be more of a point forward. People seem to forget what an awesome passer he is. If Cleveland can get him into somewhat of a Jokic role, they'll be able to trade his contract for some more assets.

c.c.
07-26-2018, 06:20 PM
Love - SEX ton is a nice duo

Plus I heard they trying to trade for Rudy Gay

beasted86
07-26-2018, 07:15 PM
Who were you saying was their best defensive player? Pretty much everyone on that defense looked atrocious last year

LeBron was their best defensive player.

ewing
07-27-2018, 08:33 AM
LeBron was their best defensive player.

No he wasn't.

prodigy
07-27-2018, 08:39 AM
LeBron was their best defensive player.

When he tried yes. But he didn't give much effort on defense.

ewing
07-27-2018, 08:52 AM
When he tried yes. But he didn't give much effort on defense.

this is a ridiculous statement. he's the best when he plays well. He a top shooter when he makes his shots. Its the ****ing NBA everything is about consistency. James was a trash defender the last two years who dictated that his team go super small with poor defenders all over the floor b/c they were capable of spreading the floor for him on offense.

prodigy
07-27-2018, 11:41 AM
this is a ridiculous statement. he's the best when he plays well. He a top shooter when he makes his shots. Its the ****ing NBA everything is about consistency. James was a trash defender the last two years who dictated that his team go super small with poor defenders all over the floor b/c they were capable of spreading the floor for him on offense.

ummm what? James is a excellent defender when he goes all in to stop someone. But he saves most of his energy for offense. So he usually hang's around the other teams worse scorer. This a correct statement by me. I do agree with ur second part about wanting mostly shooters out there with him.

mrblisterdundee
07-27-2018, 12:55 PM
No he wasn't.

When he tried yes. But he didn't give much effort on defense.

LeBron was easily their best defensive player. He purposely didn't give as much effort on that end because he had such a workload on offense — dude was 33, so give him a rest. If LeBron wants to, he can play all-NBA first team defense.

MygirlhatesCod
07-27-2018, 01:28 PM
LeBron was easily their best defensive player. He purposely didn't give as much effort on that end because he had such a workload on offense — dude was 33, so give him a rest. If LeBron wants to, he can play all-NBA first team defense.

I heard he could swim faster than a dolphin too

nastynice
07-27-2018, 01:58 PM
Guess they don't wanna strip the team. They're banking on him putting up numbers like in Minny probably

He's a good player, people forget, tho prob a lil overrated in Minny

ewing
07-27-2018, 02:05 PM
ummm what? James is a excellent defender when he goes all in to stop someone. But he saves most of his energy for offense. So he usually hang's around the other teams worse scorer. This a correct statement by me. I do agree with ur second part about wanting mostly shooters out there with him.

If you don't play defense 75% of the time you are **** defender. Marbury was a good defender the first two weeks of the season every year then he he laid off the pedal. If LeBron can't defend regularly he is a **** defender.

ewing
07-27-2018, 02:06 PM
LeBron was easily their best defensive player. He purposely didn't give as much effort on that end because he had such a workload on offense — dude was 33, so give him a rest. If LeBron wants to, he can play all-NBA first team defense.

If he could, he would. You are supposed to play both ends.

IndyRealist
07-27-2018, 02:13 PM
That's ridiculous. Lebrun's probably good for about 14 wins. That would put the Cavs in the high 30's. It could be a bit more though if Love can stay healthy and produce like a no. 1 option. This is the EC after all.

Mid 40's is a bit too optimistic. 30 with a healthy roster is just silly. 35-40 is realistic. Maybe they can make a move or two and bump it up to low 40's.

I wouldn't have a problem betting on a 38 win season. I hope they win more though. Lebron literally attempted to loot and rob the team by signing all of his friends to ridiculous deals and I hope the team, franchise and city come out the other end with good prospects.

Lebron left town like a deadbeat dad after using up his hoe and robbing her of all her jewelry, but Dan Gilbert handled his cheap tricks with class.

Assuming no drop off Lebron is worth around 20 wins. 14 wins is more like Lillard. Still great, but not on Lebron's level. You have to account for the fact that Lebron was the only player to break 3000 minutes last season.

prodigy
07-28-2018, 10:11 AM
LeBron was easily their best defensive player. He purposely didn't give as much effort on that end because he had such a workload on offense — dude was 33, so give him a rest. If LeBron wants to, he can play all-NBA first team defense.

thanks for repeating what i said lol

prodigy
07-28-2018, 10:16 AM
If you don't play defense 75% of the time you are **** defender. Marbury was a good defender the first two weeks of the season every year then he he laid off the pedal. If LeBron can't defend regularly he is a **** defender.

completely disagree with this. When i played baseball I was really good at bunting (laid down 4 bunts got 3 infield singles). But i hated bunting so i would never do it lol. Does that mean i was trash at it? nope.

Most teams hide their Star players on defense if they can. doesn't matter if they can defend or not.

ewing
07-28-2018, 01:44 PM
completely disagree with this. When i played baseball I was really good at bunting (laid down 4 bunts got 3 infield singles). But i hated bunting so i would never do it lol. Does that mean i was trash at it? nope.

Most teams hide their Star players on defense if they can. doesn't matter if they can defend or not.

Good defenders take defense assignments and try on defense. LeBron isn’t one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Joemoes
07-29-2018, 10:14 AM
Doesn't their picks Atlanta has aren't they top 10 protected? If they land 11-30 Atlanta gets it.

Scoots
07-30-2018, 09:24 PM
What's more likely? The Cavs making the playoffs or the Lakers missing the playoffs?

steamroller
07-30-2018, 09:38 PM
It's much more likely the cavs will miss. The lakers have gotten considerably better with a lot of veteran defensive specialists. Ingram, Kuzma and Ball should also be improved.

Luke may be in over his head (who wouldn't though with this crew), but Lebron is a coach on the floor. They'll be alright. 52 wins, maybe more.

The Cavs will struggle. Signing Love is an interesting move. MIA was just fine after losing Lebron and the Cavs will be as well.

mightybosstone
07-30-2018, 09:39 PM
What's more likely? The Cavs making the playoffs or the Lakers missing the playoffs?

At first this seemed like an absurd question, but the more I thought about it, the harder it became to answer. The 8th seed in the East won 43 games last season, while the 8th seed in the West won 47. Assuming the cutoff point is similar next season, the Cavs would have to lose 8 more games to drop out of the playoff hunt in the East, while the Lakers would have to win at least 12 more games in the West.

Assuming Lebron is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 additional/fewer wins to a franchise by himself (which is probably low), the Cavs seem likely to drop out of the postseason in the East, while the Lakers ought to squeak into the playoffs in the West.

If I had to ballpark a figure, I'd put the Lakers chances to make the playoffs at 70-80 percent and the Cavs chances to make the playoffs at 35-40 percent. That would mean the Cavs are more likely to make the playoffs than the Lakers are to miss the playoffs, but not by much.

Scoots
07-30-2018, 10:52 PM
At first this seemed like an absurd question, but the more I thought about it, the harder it became to answer. The 8th seed in the East won 43 games last season, while the 8th seed in the West won 47. Assuming the cutoff point is similar next season, the Cavs would have to lose 8 more games to drop out of the playoff hunt in the East, while the Lakers would have to win at least 12 more games in the West.

Assuming Lebron is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 additional/fewer wins to a franchise by himself (which is probably low), the Cavs seem likely to drop out of the postseason in the East, while the Lakers ought to squeak into the playoffs in the West.

If I had to ballpark a figure, I'd put the Lakers chances to make the playoffs at 70-80 percent and the Cavs chances to make the playoffs at 35-40 percent. That would mean the Cavs are more likely to make the playoffs than the Lakers are to miss the playoffs, but not by much.

Add to that that the West got tougher in general this year (I think) and the East easier so the gap may be even smaller than that.

prodigy
07-31-2018, 10:40 AM
Good defenders take defense assignments and try on defense. LeBron isn’t one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Once again this comment just isn't correct by you. Just because someone doesn't check the best offensive player on the other team dont mean they can't defend. Thats just dumb. You don't want ur main weapon getting tired on defense when they play 40mins a game. Gotta play smart basketball. Now in crunch time Lebron would usually switch over. 2016 finals comes to mind when he put Curry in a box during certain stretches.

MygirlhatesCod
07-31-2018, 02:10 PM
i really like the love extension. now the cavs just need to replace lue with Blatt and stage one will be complete.

MygirlhatesCod
07-31-2018, 02:30 PM
on another note i feel like Kuzma is a smaller version of Love. very similar offense. the numbers are very similar as well. which brings me to the point that maybe Kuzma will have an issue developing with bron. last year Kuzma averaged about 13.5 shots a game. Love, a more polished and better overall talent averaged 13 shots a game in the four years he played with bron. not to mention Love was bashed continuously for not playing well, even though he was still putting up very good numbers in a system that wasn't about his strengths at all. seems like it will be harder for kuzma considering Love at least had some years of development an maturing before moving to bron ball.

prodigy
07-31-2018, 02:50 PM
on another note i feel like Kuzma is a smaller version of Love. very similar offense. the numbers are very similar as well. which brings me to the point that maybe Kuzma will have an issue developing with bron. last year Kuzma averaged about 13.5 shots a game. Love, a more polished and better overall talent averaged 13 shots a game in the four years he played with bron. not to mention Love was bashed continuously for not playing well, even though he was still putting up very good numbers in a system that wasn't about his strengths at all. seems like it will be harder for kuzma considering Love at least had some years of development an maturing before moving to bron ball.

Kuzma is one of my fav players and this is def a real fear i have. Lebron can hurt players because he pretty much just wants you to stand at the 3pt line.

MygirlhatesCod
07-31-2018, 03:39 PM
Kuzma is one of my fav players and this is def a real fear i have. Lebron can hurt players because he pretty much just wants you to stand at the 3pt line.

kinda makes me wonder why Lebron didn't end up in Houston. that would have been the perfect spot for him.

ewing
07-31-2018, 06:12 PM
Once again this comment just isn't correct by you. Just because someone doesn't check the best offensive player on the other team dont mean they can't defend. Thats just dumb. You don't want ur main weapon getting tired on defense when they play 40mins a game. Gotta play smart basketball. Now in crunch time Lebron would usually switch over. 2016 finals comes to mind when he put Curry in a box during certain stretches.


LeBron hasn't been a good defender for at least two years. your argument is "look 5% of the time he is on the floor he plays good defense". That's a terrible argument

Vee-Rex
07-31-2018, 07:28 PM
LeBron hasn't been a good defender for at least two years. your argument is "look 5% of the time he is on the floor he plays good defense". That's a terrible argument

I know better than to argue with a world-famous, fan-leading, A+ Certified-Award-Ceremony-PHD LeBron Hater on the subject of LeBron... but against my better judgment:

Do you have stats to back that up or no?

I'm guessing no. I'm guessing you've gotten caught up in the REALLY BAD and lazy highlight defensive plays from LeBron during the regular season along with the posts here on PSD misquoting/understanding twitter, and simply ignored the many good defensive plays he's had. He has been good defensively FAAAR more than 5% of the time on the floor.

Sure, he has made poor rotations on defense and was slow to get back in transition at times during the regular season, but his man-to-man defense has been really good. Other than getting scored on by the Durants in the league that will torch most defenders in NBA history, he has severely limited his guys one-on-one. He boxes out and rebounds very well. He has an overall(yes, I know he wasn't good in certain areas, namely rotating and transition) positive impact on team defense. He QB'ed the Cavs defense, regularly coordinating defensive schemes vs. PnRs and getting his guys to communicate more often than they would without him. He literally got his guys in place, and interior defense against bigs wasn't bad at all.

I have stats to back myself up. Man-to-man SportVu tracking, defensive box, even traditional - you name it. I won't bother pulling them out though because I know it won't matter with you.

What do you have? Nothing, just blind hatred.

TrueFan420
07-31-2018, 08:17 PM
Kuzma is one of my fav players and this is def a real fear i have. Lebron can hurt players because he pretty much just wants you to stand at the 3pt line.
1 thing going for Kuzma is he clearly isn't a traditional 4 or stretch 4. He's a 3 and a small ball 4 for stretches. Because of that he won't get thrown into the 5 like Love which was even worse for him.

ewing
07-31-2018, 08:24 PM
I know better than to argue with a world-famous, fan-leading, A+ Certified-Award-Ceremony-PHD LeBron Hater on the subject of LeBron... but against my better judgment:

Do you have stats to back that up or no?

I'm guessing no. I'm guessing you've gotten caught up in the REALLY BAD and lazy highlight defensive plays from LeBron during the regular season along with the posts here on PSD misquoting/understanding twitter, and simply ignored the many good defensive plays he's had. He has been good defensively FAAAR more than 5% of the time on the floor.

Sure, he has made poor rotations on defense and was slow to get back in transition at times during the regular season, but his man-to-man defense has been really good. Other than getting scored on by the Durants in the league that will torch most defenders in NBA history, he has severely limited his guys one-on-one. He boxes out and rebounds very well. He has an overall(yes, I know he wasn't good in certain areas, namely rotating and transition) positive impact on team defense. He QB'ed the Cavs defense, regularly coordinating defensive schemes vs. PnRs and getting his guys to communicate more often than they would without him. He literally got his guys in place, and interior defense against bigs wasn't bad at all.

I have stats to back myself up. Man-to-man SportVu tracking, defensive box, even traditional - you name it. I won't bother pulling them out though because I know it won't matter with you.

What do you have? Nothing, just blind hatred.

Is this an argument for or against him being a good defensive player? I cant tell but I'm leaning against. Anyone who wasn't very good in transition or in rotations and was the QB of the Cavs defensive isn't stellar

Vee-Rex
07-31-2018, 09:52 PM
Is this an argument for or against him being a good defensive player? I cant tell but I'm leaning against. Anyone who wasn't very good in transition or in rotations and was the QB of the Cavs defensive isn't stellar

good

Cavs defense was bad because of guys like JR, Love, Hood, Clarkson, IT/Rose (from early in the year), and having poor interior defense with no rim protection. Playing Love at the 5 is disastrous for defense.

I have stats and a better eye test than you, having seen more Cavs games - what do you have?

ewing
07-31-2018, 10:19 PM
good

Cavs defense was bad because of guys like JR, Love, Hood, Clarkson, IT/Rose (from early in the year), and having poor interior defense with no rim protection. Playing Love at the 5 is disastrous for defense.

I have stats and a better eye test than you, having seen more Cavs games - what do you have?

But, but, but, but, but.....

Maxing LeBron is the reason you played Love at center and doubled down on flat footed jump shooters by playing Kover with him half the time. You got it right LeBron was the QB- of an awful defense. \

Tg11
08-09-2018, 12:36 PM
Why would Love even want to stay there it be beyond me...like he gots to go