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View Full Version : Is New York City headed for basketball relevancy in 2019?



mrblisterdundee
07-20-2018, 11:38 PM
Mark Schanowski, a sportscaster for NBC Sports Chicago, was recently talking about Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving potentially teaming up on the Knicks or Nets. Bulls reporter Vincent Goodwill added that a third, unnamed superstar could join them.
New York City's obviously a huge market with two underperforming teams led by comically bad owners. But could 2019 be the summer one (or both) of them gains relevancy? Could someone like Kawhi Leonard or Kevin Durant be that third guy interested in being someone who makes the Big Apple a good basketball city again?

MannyWood
07-21-2018, 02:42 AM
Yup. Knicks and Lakeshow finals coming up in a few years

TrustJoseph
07-21-2018, 04:13 AM
I don't know, the Knicks shoulda did what the Sixers did for 4 years or so.

hugepatsfan
07-21-2018, 07:20 AM
Looks like it. Hard to imagine they wonít land someone notable next year. Key for them IMO is to just spend smart if they donít get the Kyrie/KD/Butlers of the world. Donít blow it on a guy like Kemba Walker who wonít get them where theyíre trying to go. Be patient.

IndyRealist
07-21-2018, 09:01 AM
It's good for everyone if the Knicks/Nets/Lakers/Clippers/Bulls are relevant. Some of those front offices can't be trusted not to eff it up though.

hugepatsfan
07-21-2018, 09:14 AM
I don't know, the Knicks shoulda did what the Sixers did for 4 years or so.

Thatís very difficult to do. Not everyone is fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to draft players who get hurt but then are still great picks. If instead of being hurt for 3 years Embiid was a hot from the start like KP has been for the Knicks the 76ers would have never been in position for Simmons. And if Simmons didnít then miss a year then they wouldnít have been in position to get Fultzí upside onbthe roster. PHIs strategy wasnít really unique at all - they just embraced marketing that theyíve tanking instead of denying it. What made their ďprocessĒ special and unique was those weird injuries that let them draft great players but still suck and not improve by drafting them.

PAOboston
07-21-2018, 09:59 AM
Still a believe the teams that meander the wheel mediocrity are usual suspects in this league. Zero faith in neither of NYK or CHI management.

There's a better chance Brooklyn becomes relevant via FA than the Knicks. Bad ownerships/bad management teams.

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mike_noodles
07-21-2018, 10:51 AM
Looks like it. Hard to imagine they wonít land someone notable next year. Key for them IMO is to just spend smart if they donít get the Kyrie/KD/Butlers of the world. Donít blow it on a guy like Kemba Walker who wonít get them where theyíre trying to go. Be patient.

I dunno. It's very hard for me to imagine them landing anyone of note.

R. Johnson#3
07-21-2018, 11:20 AM
It's going to be really funny when nobody goes to the Knicks.

Silent
07-21-2018, 11:52 AM
nah i doubt it

hugepatsfan
07-21-2018, 12:50 PM
Thatís very difficult to do. Not everyone is fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to draft players who get hurt but then are still great picks. If instead of being hurt for 3 years Embiid was a hot from the start like KP has been for the Knicks the 76ers would have never been in position for Simmons. And if Simmons didnít then miss a year then they wouldnít have been in position to get Fultzí upside onbthe roster. PHIs strategy wasnít really unique at all - they just embraced marketing that theyíve tanking instead of denying it. What made their ďprocessĒ special and unique was those weird injuries that let them draft great players but still suck and not improve by drafting them.

I should correct myself here... because of the great trade PHI made with sAC they would still have been able to get Fultz. But the larger point stands. Unless Embiid was a zero for 2 years they wouldnít have been in position to also land Simmons. And if they didnít have Simmons right now, would anyone look at PHI the same. Itís silly for people to suggest every team should just ďdo what PHI didĒ to land young stars. They did an outstanding job building their team back up, but the high ceiling they have now took some amazing strokes of luck no team should count on replicating.

ZH721
07-21-2018, 01:20 PM
It's going to be really funny when nobody goes to the Knicks.

Their fans think they already have Kyrie + Butler with a 50% chance at KD too lol.

Scoots
07-21-2018, 01:31 PM
It always comes down to ownership and until the Knicks ownership changes (not likely any time soon it seems) free agents will be suspicious.

KnicksorBust
07-21-2018, 02:36 PM
Feels like 2009 all over again

MygirlhatesCod
07-21-2018, 02:56 PM
It's good for everyone if the Knicks/Nets/Lakers/Clippers/Bulls are relevant. Some of those front offices can't be trusted not to eff it up though.

Why? Who cares besides their fan base......which is not the most loyal anyway. Basketball doesnít automatically become better when these teams are good. This logic Is rediculous.

IndyRealist
07-21-2018, 04:26 PM
Why? Who cares besides their fan base......which is not the most loyal anyway. Basketball doesnít automatically become better when these teams are good. This logic Is rediculous.

Because viewership is up when the major markets have good teams. When San Antonio was a virutal lock for the Finals, the NBA suffered financially. They were talking contraction. I'm a fan of a flyover state team, and I understand the value of having the major markets not suck. You can see how much more active this board is in the offseason just because the Lakers got Lebron. Now translate that to jersey sales, League Pass subscriptions, and playoff viewership.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

crewfan13
07-21-2018, 05:27 PM
But the league as a whole has become almost entirely about the players and not near as much about the teams or markets. I agree the lakers and probably the Celtics and maybe the Knicks have that appeal, but teams like the clippers, nets and bulls donít matter as much in my mind.

Go to a city like Chicago letís say. Take the first 100 football jerseys you see, and my guess would be the majority of them will be bears jerseys. Youíll see some packers or other local teams with transplants or kids who like to root against their parents, but Iíd say most jerseys will be bears. Same for baseball. In Chicago, it will be ahair different, because youíll have two teams, but most jerseys will be cubs, followed by White Sox with maybe a few cardinals and other mixed in. But if you take the first 100 basketball jerseys you see in Chicago, especially if itís kids, I bet thereís as many Durant, curry or Lebron jerseys as bulls players.

People still prefer to root for the local team in basketball, but itís much less than the other sports. I donít think the nba needs the major media markets as much. Those major markets will still watch guys like Lebron, curry, Durant ect regardless of whether they play in Phoenix or Brooklyn.

Scoots
07-21-2018, 05:28 PM
Why? Who cares besides their fan base......which is not the most loyal anyway. Basketball doesnít automatically become better when these teams are good. This logic Is rediculous.

Logical or not it's true. The largest fan bases being happy means more activity around the game.

IndyRealist
07-21-2018, 08:59 PM
But the league as a whole has become almost entirely about the players and not near as much about the teams or markets. I agree the lakers and probably the Celtics and maybe the Knicks have that appeal, but teams like the clippers, nets and bulls donít matter as much in my mind.

Go to a city like Chicago letís say. Take the first 100 football jerseys you see, and my guess would be the majority of them will be bears jerseys. Youíll see some packers or other local teams with transplants or kids who like to root against their parents, but Iíd say most jerseys will be bears. Same for baseball. In Chicago, it will be ahair different, because youíll have two teams, but most jerseys will be cubs, followed by White Sox with maybe a few cardinals and other mixed in. But if you take the first 100 basketball jerseys you see in Chicago, especially if itís kids, I bet thereís as many Durant, curry or Lebron jerseys as bulls players.

People still prefer to root for the local team in basketball, but itís much less than the other sports. I donít think the nba needs the major media markets as much. Those major markets will still watch guys like Lebron, curry, Durant ect regardless of whether they play in Phoenix or Brooklyn.

Not for casual fans. The NBA can count on our money, one way or another. We're in it no matter what. But if the Lakers are good that's 12 million people that don't otherwise care about basketball that suddenly do. That's 12 million for the Knicks or Nets. 4 million for the Bulls. That's people who would maybe watch 2 or 3 games a season, maybe go to 1, that are watching 50 or 60 games and going to a dozen. That's millions of extra jerseys sold, millions of League Pass subscriptions.

TakeYourL
07-21-2018, 09:10 PM
If porzingis comes back healthy and looks like his old self Knicks have a shot to turn it around pretty quick, if not I dunno.

MygirlhatesCod
07-21-2018, 09:26 PM
Because viewership is up when the major markets have good teams. When San Antonio was a virutal lock for the Finals, the NBA suffered financially. They were talking contraction. I'm a fan of a flyover state team, and I understand the value of having the major markets not suck. You can see how much more active this board is in the offseason just because the Lakers got Lebron. Now translate that to jersey sales, League Pass subscriptions, and playoff viewership.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

Thatís just your opinion. Viewership and sales have been at a high since Jordan...Iím pretty sure the lakers were winning between that time. So make me believe.

CityofTreez
07-21-2018, 11:58 PM
Letís make the Mecca great again for 2019!

TrustJoseph
07-22-2018, 12:14 AM
Thatís very difficult to do. Not everyone is fortunate (unfortunate?) enough to draft players who get hurt but then are still great picks. If instead of being hurt for 3 years Embiid was a hot from the start like KP has been for the Knicks the 76ers would have never been in position for Simmons. And if Simmons didnít then miss a year then they wouldnít have been in position to get Fultzí upside onbthe roster. PHIs strategy wasnít really unique at all - they just embraced marketing that theyíve tanking instead of denying it. What made their ďprocessĒ special and unique was those weird injuries that let them draft great players but still suck and not improve by drafting them.

Maybe your right man. It's still worth a shot tanking for two year's, our roster would have remained depleted whether embid played his rookie year or not, then bringing in Simmons I think the roster is still depleted to the point they still wouldn't have won any game's and thqt woulda led to us still heijg a lottery team and having to trade up for Fultz.

But qgain maybe your right and we are just fortunate to draft injured guys that pan out.....

mrblisterdundee
07-22-2018, 12:35 AM
If porzingis comes back healthy and looks like his old self Knicks have a shot to turn it around pretty quick, if not I dunno.

I think he'll get maxed regardless of how long he plays next season. It's the Knicks, and he's their most promising star since Ewing.

ciaban
07-22-2018, 02:38 AM
But the league as a whole has become almost entirely about the players and not near as much about the teams or markets. I agree the lakers and probably the Celtics and maybe the Knicks have that appeal, but teams like the clippers, nets and bulls donít matter as much in my mind.

Go to a city like Chicago letís say. Take the first 100 football jerseys you see, and my guess would be the majority of them will be bears jerseys. Youíll see some packers or other local teams with transplants or kids who like to root against their parents, but Iíd say most jerseys will be bears. Same for baseball. In Chicago, it will be ahair different, because youíll have two teams, but most jerseys will be cubs, followed by White Sox with maybe a few cardinals and other mixed in. But if you take the first 100 basketball jerseys you see in Chicago, especially if itís kids, I bet thereís as many Durant, curry or Lebron jerseys as bulls players.

People still prefer to root for the local team in basketball, but itís much less than the other sports. I donít think the nba needs the major media markets as much. Those major markets will still watch guys like Lebron, curry, Durant ect regardless of whether they play in Phoenix or Brooklyn.
I was watching Cowherd talk about this, and he brought up the point that the Celtics being a big TV draw is a myth.
The point he made was that a Celtics vs Toronto game last season which aired right before a Clips vs Spurs games got significantly lower ratings.
While the Knicks are still a big draw (somehow) people don't really care about the Celtics.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-22-2018, 07:50 AM
Knicks? With KP out with injury. This just another tank season. Even if they got cap in 2019 not so sure they land anyone.

KnicksorBust
07-22-2018, 08:20 AM
It is very easy to see a path to relevancy for the Knicks. If Porzingis is healthy and if Knox, who led summer league in scoring, has a mitchell or tatum like rookie season then no matter who they max out in FA on they will be around a top 4-5 team in the conference. Don't sleep on Mitchell Robinson either. Set 10 year highs and records for pts/fg%, offensive rebounds, and blocks per game. Other scenario, if KP is healthy and we get Kyrie then we are relevant no matter what.If a combination of scenario 1 and scenario 2 happens then throw out relevant we could actually compete for the east title. The key to both is Porzingis. It could easily play out that he is not 100%, Knox is just a role player and we overpay for Kemba. I am just glad there is a path again. Will be fun watching Fizdale coach up our young players.

Scoots
07-22-2018, 09:38 AM
I think no matter how the health goes they struggle to make the playoffs this year.

KnicksorBust
07-22-2018, 10:12 AM
I think no matter how the health goes they struggle to make the playoffs this year.

Obviously that is why the OP is about the summer of 2019 not this season lol

Scoots
07-22-2018, 10:46 AM
Obviously that is why the OP is about the summer of 2019 not this season lol

So when you said "if Knox, who led summer league in scoring, has a mitchell or tatum like rookie season" you were talking about the 2019-2020 season?

KnicksorBust
07-22-2018, 01:12 PM
Obviously that is why the OP is about the summer of 2019 not this season lol

So when you said "if Knox, who led summer league in scoring, has a mitchell or tatum like rookie season" you were talking about the 2019-2020 season?

Yes. Read it again. The whole premise of the OP is if they will they be relevant in the summer of 2019. I am saying if in the summer of 2019 Porzingis is fully healthy and Knox has had a mitchell or tatum like rookie season then no matter who we use our max cap space on we will then become a top 4-5 team in the conference and be relevant.

Scoots
07-22-2018, 01:46 PM
Yes. Read it again. The whole premise of the OP is if they will they be relevant in the summer of 2019. I am saying if in the summer of 2019 Porzingis is fully healthy and Knox has had a mitchell or tatum like rookie season then no matter who we use our max cap space on we will then become a top 4-5 team in the conference and be relevant.

I was just responding to you talking about this year, that regardless of how Knox performs I'd be surprised if the Knicks make this playoffs this year. I know the OP was about next year.

I like Knox, Hezonja, Ntilikina, KP, and some of the other Knicks and am looking forward to watching them this year. Next year I think they have to be fairly lucky to make it up to the 4 seed.

Hustla23
07-22-2018, 01:50 PM
The Knicks are back (forreal this time though.)

Scoots
07-22-2018, 01:51 PM
Warriors fans when they win are bad enough, but good lord the nightmare we may be seeing with the Celtics, Lakers, Knicks, Sixers, and Rockets all being relevant at the same time in a few years. :)

If the Bulls start winning again we are all doomed.

Vinylman
07-22-2018, 01:58 PM
Dolan will **** it up

Scoots
07-22-2018, 02:03 PM
Dolan will **** it up

Always a possibility. I hate seeing great fanbases held hostage by bad owners.

Vinylman
07-22-2018, 02:05 PM
Always a possibility. I hate seeing great fanbases held hostage by bad owners.

we lived through the "idiot son" in LA... at least it didn't last long

KnicksorBust
07-22-2018, 03:27 PM
Yes. Read it again. The whole premise of the OP is if they will they be relevant in the summer of 2019. I am saying if in the summer of 2019 Porzingis is fully healthy and Knox has had a mitchell or tatum like rookie season then no matter who we use our max cap space on we will then become a top 4-5 team in the conference and be relevant.

I was just responding to you talking about this year, that regardless of how Knox performs I'd be surprised if the Knicks make this playoffs this year. I know the OP was about next year.

Who was saying the Knicks would make the playoffs this year?

GREATNESS ONE
07-22-2018, 04:07 PM
Why? Who cares besides their fan base......which is not the most loyal anyway. Basketball doesnít automatically become better when these teams are good. This logic Is rediculous.

Lol

GREATNESS ONE
07-22-2018, 04:08 PM
Because viewership is up when the major markets have good teams. When San Antonio was a virutal lock for the Finals, the NBA suffered financially. They were talking contraction. I'm a fan of a flyover state team, and I understand the value of having the major markets not suck. You can see how much more active this board is in the offseason just because the Lakers got Lebron. Now translate that to jersey sales, League Pass subscriptions, and playoff viewership.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

*rediculous

colinskik
07-22-2018, 04:19 PM
As another poster mentioned, I believe the Knicksí future as a relevant teams rests on KPís shoulders ... or knee, as it were. If he returns to form then I think thereís a good chance we land a notable FA.

Brooklyn has a **** ton of cap space tho and could make some noise in free agency. The fact remains, however, if a guy wants to be in NYC, then heís not looking to play for the little brother team. Except maybe Kawhi, cause he would enjoy the obscurity. Even when the Nets were in the Finals, the Knicks still dominated the back cover of the tabloids.

s3antana5757
07-22-2018, 04:25 PM
I feel like it's nice in theory that the Knicks can get these guys, but how? You still have Noah's salary, Hardaway and Courtney Lee locked in for next year. Plus KP is a RFA. His hold isn't bad, but the could get one max contract in.

If you told me 2020 was their year, I could believe that a little.

cheetos185
07-22-2018, 05:11 PM
Star players want to team up with one another and if KP is healthy then obviously they will choose Knicks over Nets any day. I haven't paid attention to what the nets are doing lately but pretty sure a core of KP/Knox/Frank/Mitchell beats anything they have.

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ewing
07-22-2018, 08:04 PM
I was just responding to you talking about this year, that regardless of how Knox performs I'd be surprised if the Knicks make this playoffs this year. I know the OP was about next year.

I like Knox, Hezonja, Ntilikina, KP, and some of the other Knicks and am looking forward to watching them this year. Next year I think they have to be fairly lucky to make it up to the 4 seed.

We arenít making the playoffs this year


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Scoots
07-22-2018, 08:30 PM
We arenít making the playoffs this year

hehe ... thanks.

sharqstealth
07-22-2018, 10:32 PM
Still a believe the teams that meander the wheel mediocrity are usual suspects in this league. Zero faith in neither of NYK or CHI management.

There's a better chance Brooklyn becomes relevant via FA than the Knicks. Bad ownerships/bad management teams.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Oh yeah the BK Nets. The irony of it is your boston celtics might lose Kyrie to either NY teams. lol

steamroller
07-23-2018, 12:07 AM
Mark Schanowski, a sportscaster for NBC Sports Chicago, was recently talking about Jimmy Butler and Kyrie Irving potentially teaming up on the Knicks or Nets. Bulls reporter Vincent Goodwill added that a third, unnamed superstar could join them.
New York City's obviously a huge market with two underperforming teams led by comically bad owners. But could 2019 be the summer one (or both) of them gains relevancy? Could someone like Kawhi Leonard or Kevin Durant be that third guy interested in being someone who makes the Big Apple a good basketball city again?

Idiotic clickbait.

R. Johnson#3
07-23-2018, 08:54 AM
Oh yeah the BK Nets. The irony of it is your boston celtics might lose Kyrie to either NY teams. lol

Itís funny because if an Orlando Magic fan said this about Kyrie then theyíd be called an idiot yet NY fans legitimately think this could happen.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 09:50 AM
Considering the Knicks have had arguably the greatest advantage in the sport since inception (city, money, etc), and have still sucked for my entire lifetime, I am going with the statistics, and say they will eff up whatever they attempt to do. So no, they won't be relevant, if by that we mean a contender.

Scoots
07-23-2018, 10:11 AM
Considering the Knicks have had arguably the greatest advantage in the sport since inception (city, money, etc), and have still sucked for my entire lifetime, I am going with the statistics, and say they will eff up whatever they attempt to do. So no, they won't be relevant, if by that we mean a contender.

Need a new owner. The current one is only 63 so there's a long wait for them still.

mightybosstone
07-23-2018, 10:15 AM
A big part of me really hope this ends up happening. The league is just far more interesting when the Knicks are relevant. And with Boston and Philly already poised to be great for the next decade, it would be amazing if we had that third team in the East to challenge them and for the conference to legitimately feel competitive with the West again.

trueknickfan
07-23-2018, 10:45 AM
The Knicks still need to make some moves to there roster to be able to be players in 2019. They have to trade Lee, THJ, and Baker, then renouce all cap holds and don't sign KP to his extension until all the ducks are in a row. They can then go over the cap to sign KP and anyone else they have rights to at that time. Everyone esle can go on the roster, but I would try to keep some of our youth like Frank, Knox, Robinson, and Trier. For a really big name in a trade I would include of those guys except Knox, because I believe that Knox has All Star potential and the rest don't. In any deal I would try not to include our 2019 pick because it's gonna be in the top 5 lottery, but I would include a 2021 pick because it will be much lower.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-23-2018, 10:59 AM
Even if Irving and Butler plan on teaming up in 2019 free agency somewhere. Where do they pick? Ainge didn't cough up Tatum or Brown or Hayward for Kawhi. Doubt he does for Butler either. So Irving could just walk and team up with Butler elsewhere I guess. Us Bucks fans were already trying to come up with ideas to trade for Butler. Middleton and another sweetener should be close for a Butler trade.

Bucks were main team showing interests when Irving got dealt last year. But Ainge swooped in with better offer. Bucks also have big expiring Bledsoe yet. Then if we used Brogdon and or Maker to dump any two of Delly,Snell,Henson for expiring's now would give us wiggle room to sign the third max player while trading for the other hopefully. Giannis, Irving, Butler in the east would be sweet.

Bucks already have a max cap slot in 2019 cause Bledsoe expires and Middleton has a player option which he will opt out of for more money most likely. Besides RFA Brogdon. Only downside is Butler is a down grade for three point shooting versus Middleton. Butler also played for Marquette.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 11:06 AM
Need a new owner. The current one is only 63 so there's a long wait for them still.

Wolves in the same boat, but Taylor is older than dirt, so it won't be too long.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 11:06 AM
A big part of me really hope this ends up happening. The league is just far more interesting when the Knicks are relevant. And with Boston and Philly already poised to be great for the next decade, it would be amazing if we had that third team in the East to challenge them and for the conference to legitimately feel competitive with the West again.

I mean, I would love for my Wolves to be able to keep Butler, but at this point, I don't trust the team to do anything right regardless, so whatever.

Hustla23
07-23-2018, 11:15 AM
Considering the Knicks have had arguably the greatest advantage in the sport since inception (city, money, etc), and have still sucked for my entire lifetime, I am going with the statistics, and say they will eff up whatever they attempt to do. So no, they won't be relevant, if by that we mean a contender.

This is basketball, not baseball. The salary cap sort of neutralizes the wealth advantage I would say.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 11:27 AM
This is basketball, not baseball. The salary cap sort of neutralizes the wealth advantage I would say.

Until recently, endorsements were exponentially more in a large market. It never made sense that the Knicks were as bad as they are. Nobody is spurning them due to being Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Minnesota. That is my point. They have had all the advantages possible, but have had piss poor management. So no, I don't think they will be a contender anytime soon.

IndyRealist
07-23-2018, 11:34 AM
This is basketball, not baseball. The salary cap sort of neutralizes the wealth advantage I would say.

Except it doesn't. The way the luxury tax is structurwd only the wealthiest teams can afford to pay it, so it gives a huge advantage not available to small market teams.

mightybosstone
07-23-2018, 12:05 PM
I mean, I would love for my Wolves to be able to keep Butler, but at this point, I don't trust the team to do anything right regardless, so whatever.

I feel for Minnesota fans. Watching that team last year, it's so apparent how much talent they have on that roster. But I just get the sense that they're not gelling on or off the court, and they haven't connected in a way that you'd hope a core of young star players would.

It's hard to think about who deserves blame, though. Is it the players' fault for not getting along and (in the case of Wiggins and KAT) not wanting to play defense? Is it the front office's fault for not finding the pieces to get the team to gel properly? Or is it Thibodeau's fault for not figuring out a way to maximize their potential on the floor and for running them into the ground by playing them too much?

Maybe everyone deserves a little blame all around, but I definitely think Butler is thinking about bolting after this season. And I'm not sure the Wolves can do anything to change his mind at this point.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 12:15 PM
I feel for Minnesota fans. Watching that team last year, it's so apparent how much talent they have on that roster. But I just get the sense that they're not gelling on or off the court, and they haven't connected in a way that you'd hope a core of young star players would.

It's hard to think about who deserves blame, though. Is it the players' fault for not getting along and (in the case of Wiggins and KAT) not wanting to play defense? Is it the front office's fault for not finding the pieces to get the team to gel properly? Or is it Thibodeau's fault for not figuring out a way to maximize their potential on the floor and for running them into the ground by playing them too much?

Maybe everyone deserves a little blame all around, but I definitely think Butler is thinking about bolting after this season. And I'm not sure the Wolves can do anything to change his mind at this point.

The common theme over the years is Glen Taylor. He is at the front of every failure we have had.

TakeYourL
07-23-2018, 12:22 PM
If KP comes back healthy I think Knicks have a legit shot at a quick turn around. And I say that without it being dependent on getting Kyrie or butler.

But there is always a legit shot they ruin it by giving someone like butler a max deal, just to see him be completely washed up upon putting on a Knicks jersey.

TakeYourL
07-23-2018, 12:26 PM
Wolves in the same boat, but Taylor is older than dirt, so it won't be too long.

I think minny did good job of building their current roster. Most of the moves made sense at the time. Team looked amazing on paper and had the right coach to pull it together.

It just didn't work, these things happen. Still not too late for that team though. This is what makes building a team so ridiculously hard.

Vinylman
07-23-2018, 12:35 PM
Except it doesn't. The way the luxury tax is structurwd only the wealthiest teams can afford to pay it, so it gives a huge advantage not available to small market teams.

yep... everybody doesn't understand this....

all the current cap and revenue sharing did was assure teams that usually lost money now make a profit...

it has nothing to do with competitiveness

TakeYourL
07-23-2018, 12:41 PM
yep... everybody doesn't understand this....

all the current cap and revenue sharing did was assure teams that usually lost money now make a profit...

it has nothing to do with competitiveness

Small market teams dominate the highest team salaries this year, so how is not competitive, lol.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 01:51 PM
I think minny did good job of building their current roster. Most of the moves made sense at the time. Team looked amazing on paper and had the right coach to pull it together.

It just didn't work, these things happen. Still not too late for that team though. This is what makes building a team so ridiculously hard.

no doubt man. And in all reality, Thib's deserves a little more time. Maybe he can salvage the team and turn it into a positive. I guess a lifelong Wolves fan such as myself is just eternally preparing for the worst.

PAOboston
07-23-2018, 01:56 PM
Oh yeah the BK Nets. The irony of it is your boston celtics might lose Kyrie to either NY teams. lolI don't really buy the Kyrie to the Knicks talk. Kyrie seems like he goes to the beat of his own drum so i wouldnt be totally shocked if he did something out of left field, but it doesn't really make much sense to me that he would leave Cs.

I think it's mostly conjecture from NY media in the same way they though Lebron/Wade/etc were all going to team up in NYC years back. To be determined I guess.

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Scoots
07-23-2018, 04:43 PM
no doubt man. And in all reality, Thib's deserves a little more time. Maybe he can salvage the team and turn it into a positive. I guess a lifelong Wolves fan such as myself is just eternally preparing for the worst.

I really like Thibs, he's got a good basketball mind, unfortunately I think Thibs is one of those great coaches who would be better served to stay an assistant to a head coach who manages personalities. Some coaches figure it out and some don't. Tex Winter and Ron Adams learned that and had long respected careers.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 04:46 PM
I really like Thibs, he's got a good basketball mind, unfortunately I think Thibs is one of those great coaches who would be better served to stay an assistant to a head coach who manages personalities. Some coaches figure it out and some don't. Tex Winter and Ron Adams learned that and had long respected careers.

I have echoed this many times. Thib's is an ideal defensive asst coach. Head coach? Eh, not sure his hard mentality works.

FOXHOUND
07-23-2018, 04:49 PM
I really like Thibs, he's got a good basketball mind, unfortunately I think Thibs is one of those great coaches who would be better served to stay an assistant to a head coach who manages personalities. Some coaches figure it out and some don't. Tex Winter and Ron Adams learned that and had long respected careers.

But Thibs has won 60% of his 558 games as head coach. I think it's more that he set a very high standard for himself by winning 60 games in year 1, so now people look at a 47-win season and 1st round exit with his best player recovering from injury as a "failure".

That was Minnesota's first postseason berth in 15-years and first winning season in 14-years.

Hawkeye15
07-23-2018, 05:08 PM
But Thibs has won 60% of his 558 games as head coach. I think it's more that he set a very high standard for himself by winning 60 games in year 1, so now people look at a 47-win season and 1st round exit with his best player recovering from injury as a "failure".

That was Minnesota's first postseason berth in 15-years and first winning season in 14-years.

Wolves fans should be excited to be relevant again. but there is just a feeling that his old school mentality won't fly anymore. It worked in Chicago because he was able to get a lot of guys that play his way. I am not sure if Towns can, and we know for a fact Wiggins can't, despite now making superstar money. Butler may stay, who knows. But a Thib's coached team that sucks balls on defense, isn't getting far, and that is what the Wolves are.

TakeYourL
07-23-2018, 05:47 PM
no doubt man. And in all reality, Thib's deserves a little more time. Maybe he can salvage the team and turn it into a positive. I guess a lifelong Wolves fan such as myself is just eternally preparing for the worst.

Gotta believe towns and Wiggins with a year under their belt of real playoff basketball will now understand what is at stake and what it takes, and will make that leap.

Wiggins worries me because he seems pretty dumb , Towns lack of competitiveness was surprising though, but I think he will make that turn this year. I think Wiggins makes the turn also, but he really may be too dumb to get it.

The laziness of the NBA's long pointlessly drawn out season is extremely detrimental to NBA's young players. They don't understand how different playoffs is, and don't know how to turn it up.

It's why it's the same vet teams and players always at the top.

Hustla23
07-23-2018, 05:52 PM
Except it doesn't. The way the luxury tax is structurwd only the wealthiest teams can afford to pay it, so it gives a huge advantage not available to small market teams.

Okay, sure. But that really only allows us to keep players without having to worry about the financial penalty so much. There isn't the flexibility to go out and steal other team's players by outbidding like you see in baseball, for example. Any team with cap space can make a limited pitch to a player with no team being able to bid more. I don't think that's some sort of massive financial advantage.

Scoots
07-23-2018, 06:33 PM
But Thibs has won 60% of his 558 games as head coach. I think it's more that he set a very high standard for himself by winning 60 games in year 1, so now people look at a 47-win season and 1st round exit with his best player recovering from injury as a "failure".

That was Minnesota's first postseason berth in 15-years and first winning season in 14-years.

Because he's a really good coach ... but there is a lot of info out there that he should maybe not be the top coach on a team. Today's coaches need to be able to work with other coaches, agents, players, training staffs, the media, and the front office better than they did in the past, and I think Thibs just doesn't care about anything other than the next game.

Scoots
07-23-2018, 06:39 PM
yep... everybody doesn't understand this....

all the current cap and revenue sharing did was assure teams that usually lost money now make a profit...

it has nothing to do with competitiveness

And I don't think it has much to do with market either. It has to do with the owner. The Warriors market hasn't changed significantly in the last 5 years. What changed was they went from an owner who wanted an NBA team was a toy he could show off with to an owner who was desperate to WIN. The tax is a result of winning to some extent, so it actually discourages teams being competitive at the game ... but maybe you meant it had nothing to do with encouraging parity, and that it does do in a secondary way in that teams that are not winning are going to avoid the tax and will form a middle tier that is fairly level with each other.

That said, I'd be fine with a hard cap and 100% revenue sharing and balancing the COL and other advantages between all of the markets of NBA teams. I still think the better owners will continue to win at a MUCH higher rate than the other owners.

FOXHOUND
07-23-2018, 07:21 PM
Wolves fans should be excited to be relevant again. but there is just a feeling that his old school mentality won't fly anymore. It worked in Chicago because he was able to get a lot of guys that play his way. I am not sure if Towns can, and we know for a fact Wiggins can't, despite now making superstar money. Butler may stay, who knows. But a Thib's coached team that sucks balls on defense, isn't getting far, and that is what the Wolves are.

That's fair. How are you feeling about KAT? I'm starting to worry that he's too soft/maybe doesn't care enough about winning and is content with just being really good with the stats. Agree on Wiggins too.

FOXHOUND
07-23-2018, 07:23 PM
Because he's a really good coach ... but there is a lot of info out there that he should maybe not be the top coach on a team. Today's coaches need to be able to work with other coaches, agents, players, training staffs, the media, and the front office better than they did in the past, and I think Thibs just doesn't care about anything other than the next game.

That's also fair. I would compare it more to Doc Rivers though. I don't think there's anything wrong with Thibs the coach, with the exception that he needs to manage minutes better. But like Doc, I don't think him doubling as President is good and so far Thibs the President is definitely questionable.

IndyRealist
07-23-2018, 07:38 PM
Okay, sure. But that really only allows us to keep players without having to worry about the financial penalty so much. There isn't the flexibility to go out and steal other team's players by outbidding like you see in baseball, for example. Any team with cap space can make a limited pitch to a player with no team being able to bid more. I don't think that's some sort of massive financial advantage.

Not just keeping your own player, but blowing up your payroll and then using that payroll to trade for other players you otherwise wouldn't be able to afford under the cap.

Scoots
07-23-2018, 08:44 PM
That's also fair. I would compare it more to Doc Rivers though. I don't think there's anything wrong with Thibs the coach, with the exception that he needs to manage minutes better. But like Doc, I don't think him doubling as President is good and so far Thibs the President is definitely questionable.

I don't think any coach should be the GM and the coach ... the priorities oppose each other. The GM wants to build a team to win ongoing and the coach wants to win now.

And I don't think Doc is a good coach, I think he's good at PR.

metswon69
07-24-2018, 01:33 AM
I tend to believe there are star players who want to come here because they want to be the guys to resurrect this storied franchise. If you win here, you're immortalized and what's a better story than potentially giving the Knicks their first championship since 1973? Not saying that will happen if Butler and Irving come here but the idea of doing so has to be very appealing.

JOSKOMANG4
07-24-2018, 06:48 AM
In order for NYK to get both Kyrie and Jimmy Butler, they would need to trade for Butler before the Feb Ď19 deadline. Suggestion? 3 way dance with Orlando & Minnesota

- magic acquire J.Teague
- magic trade Vucevic & DJ Augustine

L; Bamba/Gordon/Isaac/Fournier/Teague

- wolves acquire Tim Hardaway Jr, Vucevic(expiring), R.Baker(expiring), L.Thomas(expiring), Augustine, C.Lee, and Knicks 2019 1st unprotected.
- Wolves trade Butler, Teague, Dieng, Gibson

L: Vucevic/Towns/Wiggins/THjr/T.Jones

- Knicks get Dieng, Butler, Taj Gibson
- Knicks trade Lee, Hardaway, thomas, Baker, 2019 unprotected 1st.

Potential 2019: Dieng/KP/Knox/Butler/Kyrie

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 07:13 AM
I really like Thibs, he's got a good basketball mind, unfortunately I think Thibs is one of those great coaches who would be better served to stay an assistant to a head coach who manages personalities. Some coaches figure it out and some don't. Tex Winter and Ron Adams learned that and had long respected careers.

But Thibs has won 60% of his 558 games as head coach. I think it's more that he set a very high standard for himself by winning 60 games in year 1, so now people look at a 47-win season and 1st round exit with his best player recovering from injury as a "failure".

That was Minnesota's first postseason berth in 15-years and first winning season in 14-years.

Yeah I think he is an amazing head coach. I used to read about him all the time when he was in Chicago. I don't get the complaints. What more were you expecting your 1st year with Butler and a young core? 50 wins? Did he fall 3 wins short of your dream scenario?

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 07:15 AM
null

I hate trading the 2019 first but I am down if the Wolves are. Hawk? Lol

Also knicks fans will tell u that dream lineup has MITCHELL ROBINSON at center. :)

Hustla23
07-24-2018, 07:53 AM
Not just keeping your own player, but blowing up your payroll and then using that payroll to trade for other players you otherwise wouldn't be able to afford under the cap.

Lol again, this is all so limited. First of all, if you're above the salary cap, you can't sign anyone else of significance to begin with. Secondly, this presupposes that the rich team has other assets that they have to part with to trade for other players and that other players are available to trade for to begin with. When the Knicks had a 100+ million dollar payroll with the likes of Marbury and Randolph, they were stuck and literally had no means of getting better. Their blown up payroll didn't do anything for them.

IndyRealist
07-24-2018, 08:44 AM
Eh.I just don't care that much.

Hustla23
07-24-2018, 09:31 AM
I hate trading the 2019 first but I am down if the Wolves are. Hawk? Lol

Also knicks fans will tell u that dream lineup has MITCHELL ROBINSON at center. :)

Is an unprotected first round pick fair compared to what the Wolves paid to get him?

The Wolves only switched picks to get Butler but they also included Dunn and Lavine so that balances out I guess. But then again, we would be trading for an older Butler with more miles on him.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2018, 09:45 AM
Gotta believe towns and Wiggins with a year under their belt of real playoff basketball will now understand what is at stake and what it takes, and will make that leap.

Wiggins worries me because he seems pretty dumb , Towns lack of competitiveness was surprising though, but I think he will make that turn this year. I think Wiggins makes the turn also, but he really may be too dumb to get it.

The laziness of the NBA's long pointlessly drawn out season is extremely detrimental to NBA's young players. They don't understand how different playoffs is, and don't know how to turn it up.

It's why it's the same vet teams and players always at the top.

Wiggins isn't making a leap. he is a pile of waste that makes way too much money. I am hoping he can at least become an average level NBA player at some point. Towns, until he makes a real sacrifice and commits to defense, is what he was last year. A good offensive player who doesn't add much if not scoring. But, he does have plenty of promise left.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2018, 09:46 AM
That's fair. How are you feeling about KAT? I'm starting to worry that he's too soft/maybe doesn't care enough about winning and is content with just being really good with the stats. Agree on Wiggins too.

This season will define Towns moving forward I think. He made 3rd team all NBA. He made the all star game. He made the playoffs. Does he have it in him now to make the leap to a real star? We will see. I have my doubts. But, even if he doesn't improve, he is a valuable player to have.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2018, 09:49 AM
Yeah I think he is an amazing head coach. I used to read about him all the time when he was in Chicago. I don't get the complaints. What more were you expecting your 1st year with Butler and a young core? 50 wins? Did he fall 3 wins short of your dream scenario?

to maybe have a better defense than 27th? Our offense, was so archaic. I get it was efficient, because we don't turn it over and everyone but Wiggins hits FT's, but it wasn't a great offense.

I don't think he IS the problem, but he is part of it. May be as simple as guys like Thib's/Butler don't mesh with younger guys now.

WaDe03
07-24-2018, 09:56 AM
No because giantswagg wont play Kyrie over Frank.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2018, 10:16 AM
I hate trading the 2019 first but I am down if the Wolves are. Hawk? Lol

Also knicks fans will tell u that dream lineup has MITCHELL ROBINSON at center. :)

I don't even care honestly. The Wolves screw everything up, I am used to it. Be good, be bad, whatever.

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 10:36 AM
I really don't see them trading him during the season but if they underperform in the postseason such as another 4-5 game exit in the 1st round. Then maybe they bite on Courtney Lee, Hardaway Jr and a lottery pick for a sign and trade in the offseason. I just like the idea of unloading Lee and Timmys contracts and getting Butler. That means we would have Frank-Butler-Knox-Porzingis-Robinson lineup and still money for a max like Kyrie, Durant, Kawhi, etc. That is an attractive core of players to a max FA.

R. Johnson#3
07-24-2018, 12:26 PM
Remember when hiring David Fizdale meant Lebron was going to the Knicks?

ZH721
07-24-2018, 01:32 PM
I really don't see them trading him during the season but if they underperform in the postseason such as another 4-5 game exit in the 1st round. Then maybe they bite on Courtney Lee, Hardaway Jr and a lottery pick for a sign and trade in the offseason. I just like the idea of unloading Lee and Timmys contracts and getting Butler. That means we would have Frank-Butler-Knox-Porzingis-Robinson lineup and still money for a max like Kyrie, Durant, Kawhi, etc. That is an attractive core of players to a max FA.

Yeah, you like the idea of it. The Timberwolves donít lol. That pick better be super high for them to take on two contracts and deal away Butler.

ZH721
07-24-2018, 01:35 PM
Remember when hiring David Fizdale meant Lebron was going to the Knicks?

Itís the same thing every year. The media and fanbase throw around unrealistic signings/trades and the fans keep getting disappointed. They need to take things in stride.

R. Johnson#3
07-24-2018, 01:52 PM
I really don't see them trading him during the season but if they underperform in the postseason such as another 4-5 game exit in the 1st round. Then maybe they bite on Courtney Lee, Hardaway Jr and a lottery pick for a sign and trade in the offseason. I just like the idea of unloading Lee and Timmys contracts and getting Butler. That means we would have Frank-Butler-Knox-Porzingis-Robinson lineup and still money for a max like Kyrie, Durant, Kawhi, etc. That is an attractive core of players to a max FA.

Jimmy Butler was traded for Zach Lavine, Kris Dunn and the 7th overall pick. Even if heís a rental, youíre delusional if you think the T-Wolves want any part of that deal aside from the pick. Do you think any GM actually wants to pay Hardaway what heís being paid?

R. Johnson#3
07-24-2018, 01:54 PM
Itís the same thing every year. The media and fanbase throw around unrealistic signings/trades and the fans keep getting disappointed. They need to take things in stride.

I donít get disappointed. Itís one of the funniest occurrences I get to experience every year.

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 02:47 PM
null

True. I guess I am envisioning a disappointing season and Butler deciding he wants to leave in FA and the Wolves don't want to lose him for nothing. I agree though it doesn't seem likely.

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 02:54 PM
null

Look I agree and would take Lavine but...

Hardaway jr career 13.5 PER and 54.4 ts%
Lavine career 13.5 PER and 54.0 ts%

Both negative defensive players. I don't buy into Dunn. Lee is a solid starter who can shoot and defend. And the Knicks lottery pick could fall anywhere. Plus in this hypothetical world Butler is 2 years older and about to get an absurd contract after turning 30. I don't think that Butler gets as big a return.

Butler is not the dream though. That is Kyrie.

MannyWood
07-24-2018, 02:57 PM
Look I agree and would take Lavine but...

Hardaway jr career 13.5 PER and 54.4 ts%
Lavine career 13.5 PER and 54.0 ts%

Both negative defensive players. I don't buy into Dunn. Lee is a solid starter who can shoot and defend. And the Knicks lottery pick could fall anywhere. Plus in this hypothetical world Butler is 2 years older and about to get an absurd contract after turning 30. I don't think that Butler gets as big a return.

Butler is not the dream though. That is Kyrie.
Cant the Knicks free up enough money to sign 2 max? Something like trading Lee's and Thomas expiring who are easier to move than Noha and then stretching Noah and not giving Mudiay a qualifying offer?

R. Johnson#3
07-24-2018, 03:38 PM
Look I agree and would take Lavine but...

Hardaway jr career 13.5 PER and 54.4 ts%
Lavine career 13.5 PER and 54.0 ts%

Both negative defensive players. I don't buy into Dunn. Lee is a solid starter who can shoot and defend. And the Knicks lottery pick could fall anywhere. Plus in this hypothetical world Butler is 2 years older and about to get an absurd contract after turning 30. I don't think that Butler gets as big a return.

Butler is not the dream though. That is Kyrie.

Hardaway took on a much larger role this past season and he performed to a lesser degree. More minutes and more shots with a dip in percentages. Granted Lavine didn't play well this year but he's coming off ACL surgery. It's going to take a while for him to get back to who he really is, if he even can. With that being said, just the off-chance that Lavine can regain his form I'd say he's a better player than Tim Hardaway Jr. Aside from all that, neither player is worth the money they're currently being paid which is the main reason why I can't see the Wolves wanting Hardaway Jr.

I like Dunn. Still need to see more from him but we just have to agree to disagree there. Courtney Lee is a solid 3&D player. It's hard to compare the two because one is heavily relying on potential while the other is really good at what he does. When I made my initial post I was under the assumption that Jamal Crawford was still on the Wolves. They're pretty loaded at guard though most of them are 1 guards so he could have some value to them. All in all, I think the Hardaway contract is what hurts this deal the most. I can't imagine the Wolves would be rebuilding with the roster they'd have and Hardaway's contract doesn't help them.

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 05:45 PM
Look I agree and would take Lavine but...

Hardaway jr career 13.5 PER and 54.4 ts%
Lavine career 13.5 PER and 54.0 ts%

Both negative defensive players. I don't buy into Dunn. Lee is a solid starter who can shoot and defend. And the Knicks lottery pick could fall anywhere. Plus in this hypothetical world Butler is 2 years older and about to get an absurd contract after turning 30. I don't think that Butler gets as big a return.

Butler is not the dream though. That is Kyrie.
Cant the Knicks free up enough money to sign 2 max? Something like trading Lee's and Thomas expiring who are easier to move than Noha and then stretching Noah and not giving Mudiay a qualifying offer?

Yeah but I don't think teams are gonna take on those deals. I think we would have to dump Tim Hardaway Jr. Lee/Noah might be enough. It will be interesting to see if Perry (knicks gm) is aggressive trying to move those deals. Do we want enough for 1 max and a lottery pick or no lottery pick but enough $ for 2 max?

KnicksorBust
07-24-2018, 05:48 PM
Look I agree and would take Lavine but...

Hardaway jr career 13.5 PER and 54.4 ts%
Lavine career 13.5 PER and 54.0 ts%

Both negative defensive players. I don't buy into Dunn. Lee is a solid starter who can shoot and defend. And the Knicks lottery pick could fall anywhere. Plus in this hypothetical world Butler is 2 years older and about to get an absurd contract after turning 30. I don't think that Butler gets as big a return.

Butler is not the dream though. That is Kyrie.

Hardaway took on a much larger role this past season and he performed to a lesser degree. More minutes and more shots with a dip in percentages. Granted Lavine didn't play well this year but he's coming off ACL surgery. It's going to take a while for him to get back to who he really is, if he even can. With that being said, just the off-chance that Lavine can regain his form I'd say he's a better player than Tim Hardaway Jr. Aside from all that, neither player is worth the money they're currently being paid which is the main reason why I can't see the Wolves wanting Hardaway Jr.

I like Dunn. Still need to see more from him but we just have to agree to disagree there. Courtney Lee is a solid 3&D player. It's hard to compare the two because one is heavily relying on potential while the other is really good at what he does. When I made my initial post I was under the assumption that Jamal Crawford was still on the Wolves. They're pretty loaded at guard though most of them are 1 guards so he could have some value to them. All in all, I think the Hardaway contract is what hurts this deal the most. I can't imagine the Wolves would be rebuilding with the roster they'd have and Hardaway's contract doesn't help them.

I definitely think Lavine is a better long term player to have than Hardaway Jr. Dunn we just disagree. I hope I am right though bc I don't want the Bulls getting too good lol. I am already concerned about markkanen/carter frontcourt

MJNetsIsles
07-24-2018, 06:20 PM
Everyone laughed at me when I said years ago that the Nets would be relevant by this time. I was right and I look forward to them reviving New York Basketball.

ZH721
07-24-2018, 06:46 PM
Yeah but I don't think teams are gonna take on those deals. I think we would have to dump Tim Hardaway Jr. Lee/Noah might be enough. It will be interesting to see if Perry (knicks gm) is aggressive trying to move those deals. Do we want enough for 1 max and a lottery pick or no lottery pick but enough $ for 2 max?

Just suck enough this year for one of Barrett/Reddish or someone like that.

Ntilikina
Barrett/Reddish
Knox
Porzingis
Robinson

Add a max to that, let the bad deals expire. Iíd only try to salary dump them if itís for like a 2nd round pick. The Knicks fan base wants to be good right this second and in the past management has tried to do that and ****ed up. Let the team grow, and add to it with signings.

c.c.
07-24-2018, 08:57 PM
Why? Who cares besides their fan base......which is not the most loyal anyway. Basketball doesnít automatically become better when these teams are good. This logic Is rediculous.

Haha I felt the same way when I read that comment. I could careless about any of those teams lol. They can all rot forever!

Unlike most I like for small market teams to prosper.

c.c.
07-24-2018, 09:05 PM
Because viewership is up when the major markets have good teams. When San Antonio was a virutal lock for the Finals, the NBA suffered financially. They were talking contraction. I'm a fan of a flyover state team, and I understand the value of having the major markets not suck. You can see how much more active this board is in the offseason just because the Lakers got Lebron. Now translate that to jersey sales, League Pass subscriptions, and playoff viewership.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it ridiculous.

Itís ridiculous because you donít get a dime from the NBA market rising unless you own stock in their shares lol.

It also seems weird since you root for a small market team yourself.

Houston is considered a large market (not a big as NY, LA, and Boston of course) but I admire small market team building.

Most of the time their front office donít do the work, their cities sell themselves (NY & LA).

Scoots
07-25-2018, 12:46 AM
Itís ridiculous because you donít get a dime from the NBA market rising unless you own stock in their shares lol.

It also seems weird since you root for a small market team yourself.

Houston is considered a large market (not a big as NY, LA, and Boston of course) but I admire small market team building.

Most of the time their front office donít do the work, their cities sell themselves (NY & LA).

How about this ... when the big market teams are good the TV deals offered to the league, the biggest influence on the size of the cap, go up, so all the teams get more money up front and all the teams have a little more money to spend which means that every team has a chance to improve their product too.

c.c.
07-25-2018, 01:08 AM
How about this ... when the big market teams are good the TV deals offered to the league, the biggest influence on the size of the cap, go up, so all the teams get more money up front and all the teams have a little more money to spend which means that every team has a chance to improve their product too.

So you can have more mediocre players demanding more money just because their agent made them aware of the current cap spike which might take a dip in a year or two then leave teams with bad contracts.

Yes I can certainly see a Charlotte Hornet fan saying ďIím glad we have Harrison Barnes on a max deal even though the Knicks, Celtics, Nets, and Bulls are the last four teams left in the East every year.

WaDe03
07-25-2018, 10:09 AM
Everyone laughed at me when I said years ago that the Nets would be relevant by this time. I was right and I look forward to them reviving New York Basketball.

Weíre still laughing. Relevant in what way? Youíre not even a playoff team.

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-25-2018, 10:12 AM
Everyone laughed at me when I said years ago that the Nets would be relevant by this time. I was right and I look forward to them reviving New York Basketball.

You have a low standard for relevancy.

MygirlhatesCod
07-25-2018, 10:45 AM
How about this ... when the big market teams are good the TV deals offered to the league, the biggest influence on the size of the cap, go up, so all the teams get more money up front and all the teams have a little more money to spend which means that every team has a chance to improve their product too.

where is the evidence? the popularity of players influence money....and that's it!!! do you think if LeBron started in NY the league would have more money?...nope. as long as there is a team/player to hate/love people will watch from everywhere. I travel all the time and the hate/love for the Warriors and LeBron make any market tune in at a large volume.

still a fan
07-28-2018, 09:27 PM
Until recently, endorsements were exponentially more in a large market. It never made sense that the Knicks were as bad as they are. Nobody is spurning them due to being Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Minnesota. That is my point. They have had all the advantages possible, but have had piss poor management. So no, I don't think they will be a contender anytime soon.

The reality for non NYer's is the team went south when they traded an expiring Patrick Ewing for a bunch of really bad long contracts, then the Knicks hired coach's that basically wanted to save NY and made the trades, you know, Marbury, Steve Francis, Randolph, Eddy, and most recently Melo.

all these quick fixes were all losers and had nothing to do with endorsements but terrible trades and roster pairings.

I mean how long ago was it the big three went to Miami, no one chose NY, Knicks had to settle for Amare to save face when not one other team would even consider him without an insurance policy he would not agree to.

On top of that NY is one of the highest tax states which kind of makes up for endorsements, but as far as endorsements how long has social media been going on?

Let me add in order to trade for the players named above Knicks had to include draft picks which always slow down a franchise growing when the veterans you traded for don't work and no FA's actually come.

To be honest what shocks me is a guy like Lebron who wants to be clearly the best NBA player ever, no questions asked, I would think making NY relevant when all the above could not would definitely help his case, yes even better than MJ, no questions asked.

So the OP says two FA's and then add Durant as a third?

Knicks will have room for one FA, it will be nearly impossible for two, they will have many things to do which means stretching Noah, trading Timmy, Lee, and renouncing almost everyone else.

Timmy not only has a trade kicker of 15% (2.4m) but also a player option for the 2020 season which makes him a very difficult trade player.


As a Knick fan since 1969, I honestly would love to see the Knicks develop some of these young talented players, many NBA fans are going to be shocked when Mitch Robinson grows as a player in a couple years, and Knox is the real deal at this point, add in KP and a FA joins the mix in 2019 and a lottery pick the Knicks may not be contending for a ring but will be relevant and not be a roll over to play against.

Some facts, some opinions, take it for what it's worth lol