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View Full Version : The legacy of the Lakers and LeBron's place in it



redsox12
07-01-2018, 10:51 PM
The Lakers have a legacy of Hall of fame players who have brought championships to LA. Wilt, Magic, KAJ, Shaq and of course Kobe have all won titles and are on the all time top ten list. LeBron now joins this list but if he does not bring a title to LA, will he be as fondly remembered as the other five?

Where do you value LeBron on this Laker great list and if he does not win a title where does he fall just being in LA and adding to the history?

If he brings a title, where would that place him?

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 10:59 PM
He's already #2-3 in my GOAT list and that will never change unless he gets caught for PED's and what-not. If he gets a title? Damn, a title for three different teams.. I would say he's still #2 but two rings and he's my GOAT, end of story.

Bruno
07-01-2018, 11:03 PM
think its a brilliant move by LeBron.

Laker fans are the last faction of NBA fans who haven't bent the knee yet. the last group of fans who still aren't certain that he's top five all time. the final frontier. a title in Los Angeles and all bets are off the table.

the Lakers are like Dorne. Unbent, unbroken. He had to marry in.

Repost.

Wilt joined the Lakers as a 32 year old. Only needed 5 years with the Lakers to get his number retired. LeBron is a year and a half ahead of him in age but half a decade and a couple of legit stabs at the title might be enough to get him in the rafters. after all, he's LeBron James.

bklynny67
07-01-2018, 11:08 PM
Sweet. Another lebron thread. The entire first page is almost all lebron threads now.

Hurry, someone create another one. Almost there.

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 11:09 PM
Sweet. Another lebron thread. The entire first page is almost all lebron threads now.

Hurry, someone create another one. Almost there.

-upset no one cares about the Warriors.

bklynny67
07-01-2018, 11:13 PM
Sweet. Another lebron thread. The entire first page is almost all lebron threads now.

Hurry, someone create another one. Almost there.

-upset no one cares about the Warriors.
LOL do u think I'm a Warriors fan? Why would I give a **** about no one caring about them? One things for sure though, the Lakers will care... However, they may not even face them this year as they are nowhere near competing with the Warriors or Rockets. As it stands now, they might not even make it to the WCF, even if they do get Kawai.

tredigs
07-01-2018, 11:43 PM
The Lakers have a legacy of Hall of fame players who have brought championships to LA. Wilt, Magic, KAJ, Shaq and of course Kobe have all won titles and are on the all time top ten list. LeBron now joins this list but if he does not bring a title to LA, will he be as fondly remembered as the other five?

Where do you value LeBron on this Laker great list and if he does not win a title where does he fall just being in LA and adding to the history?

If he brings a title, where would that place him?
Let's let it begin first?

Kevj77
07-01-2018, 11:57 PM
He's already #2-3 in my GOAT list and that will never change unless he gets caught for PED's and what-not. If he gets a title? Damn, a title for three different teams.. I would say he's still #2 but two rings and he's my GOAT, end of story.I think the question was where can he land on the Lakers all time list not the NBA all time list. I doubt he can ever rank higher than Magic, Kobe, KAJ, It may be tough to get above West. He'd have to do something crazy like win 4-5 rings and finish his career in LA. Win a title or two and help the Lakers tie or beat the Celtics in championships and he will get in the rafters.

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:00 AM
I think the question was where can he land on the Lakers all time list not the NBA all time list. I doubt he can ever rank higher than Magic, Kobe, KAJ, It may be tough to get above West. He'd have to do something crazy like win 4-5 rings and finish his career in LA. Win a title or two and help the Lakers tie or beat the Celtics in championships and he will get in the rafters.

Too late in his career at this point. He'll never be on those other guy's recognition in LA. That's just the facts.

LA_Raiders
07-02-2018, 02:46 AM
Way to soon to tell; he will have to win 2 ships to have his jersey retired. he has 3+1 year to prove himself.

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 03:47 AM
Way to soon to tell; he will have to win 2 ships to have his jersey retired. he has 3+1 year to prove himself.

He's got nothing to prove. He joined the Lakers. Up to Magic and the rest of the management team to get him enough help because as it is, it's not even close to enough. Lakers aren't even a top five team in the West and the conference is getting better. LeBron is going to do his thing but he'll need Kawhi or another top tier player.

_Supreme_
07-02-2018, 05:31 AM
He's got nothing to prove. He joined the Lakers. Up to Magic and the rest of the management team to get him enough help because as it is, it's not even close to enough. Lakers aren't even a top five team in the West and the conference is getting better. LeBron is going to do his thing but he'll need Kawhi or another top tier player.

I agree with you that he has nothing to prove, but you know that is not how it will be looked upon.

If he does win in LA it will absolutely cement his legacy and propel him to the #1 all time spot for those who care about that ish, especially with the Los Angeles hype machine behind it, but if he doesn't win he will get blamed and receive major shade for it.

ewing
07-02-2018, 06:04 AM
Like Wilt he will be remember as an Uber talented self-centered mercenary. Respected but never loved like Magic or Kobe


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Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 11:05 AM
Like Wilt he will be remember as an Uber talented self-centered mercenary. Respected but never loved like Magic or Kobe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like Wilt he wasn't drafted to a franchise already in place to win titles and give help.

That being said, I really am not sure what LeBron can do to his legacy now. He is already on Jordan's level, but likely can't pass him. He is just adding to his resume at this point. Winning a title against this GS team as the clear cut dog might help? But really, not much he can do to hurt himself either..

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 11:05 AM
Way to soon to tell; he will have to win 2 ships to have his jersey retired. he has 3+1 year to prove himself.

LeBron doesn't have to prove anything at this point of his career.

valade16
07-02-2018, 11:59 AM
Considering it's LA, I think if Bron can bring a championship to LA he may finally get to the point where everyone thinks he's as good or better than MJ legacy wise. Who else has led 3 different franchises to titles?

One thing is for sure, this firmly shuts the door on any other team's all-time starting 5 being anywhere near the Lakers lol.

Magic - Kobe - Bron - Kareem - Shaq. That's 5 Top 10 ish level players ever lol

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 12:04 PM
Considering it's LA, I think if Bron can bring a championship to LA he may finally get to the point where everyone thinks he's as good or better than MJ legacy wise. Who else has led 3 different franchises to titles?

One thing is for sure, this firmly shuts the door on any other team's all-time starting 5 being anywhere near the Lakers lol.

Magic - Kobe - Bron - Kareem - Shaq. That's 5 Top 10 ish level players ever lol

ugh

RowBTrice
07-02-2018, 12:32 PM
I'll always remember bron for being a *****

Lakers + Giants
07-02-2018, 12:33 PM
With Wilt off the bench!

ewing
07-02-2018, 12:54 PM
Like Wilt he wasn't drafted to a franchise already in place to win titles and give help.

That being said, I really am not sure what LeBron can do to his legacy now. He is already on Jordan's level, but likely can't pass him. He is just adding to his resume at this point. Winning a title against this GS team as the clear cut dog might help? But really, not much he can do to hurt himself either..

How many times has an all time great left a team immediately after a finals appearance? Twice as far as I know. Lets not act like this guy is Ernie Banks

HandsOnTheWheel
07-02-2018, 01:01 PM
Bron's tryna retire GOAT bro!If he wins 2 chips with LA past GS he's got it

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:03 PM
Bron's tryna retire GOAT bro!If he wins 2 chips with LA past GS he's got it

Yeah.. and if I win the jackpot lotto I'm rich.

HandsOnTheWheel
07-02-2018, 01:07 PM
Yeah.. and if I win the jackpot lotto I'm rich.

Don't be salty bro. Team's not even close to being built!

Vee-Rex
07-02-2018, 01:10 PM
Don't be salty bro. Team's not even close to being built!

I thought you were a HEAT fan?

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:11 PM
I thought you were a HEAT fan?

me too lmao

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:13 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhECI4rUYAAaC2c.jpg

Lakers "fans" should all fill this out

Lakers + Giants
07-02-2018, 01:25 PM
^

LMFAO. I agree

BKLYNpigeon
07-02-2018, 01:27 PM
Lebron is 34, they won't be in contention for another 2 years. can he keep it up?

HandsOnTheWheel
07-02-2018, 01:28 PM
Lmfao I'm from LA mofos!

Lakers + Giants
07-02-2018, 01:32 PM
Welcome HandsOnTheWheel!

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 01:43 PM
How many times has an all time great left a team immediately after a finals appearance? Twice as far as I know. Lets not act like this guy is Ernie Banks

FA is a far cry from what it was in the NBA. I can't even possibly compare guys today to even 30 years ago when it comes to that subject.

The only reason that team was in the finals was him, and he knows it. I mean, I have always understood that you despise LeBron, never agreed to why, but we can hate a player for any reason under the sun.

ewing
07-02-2018, 01:55 PM
FA is a far cry from what it was in the NBA. I can't even possibly compare guys today to even 30 years ago when it comes to that subject.

The only reason that team was in the finals was him, and he knows it. I mean, I have always understood that you despise LeBron, never agreed to why, but we can hate a player for any reason under the sun.

So twice?

_Supreme_
07-02-2018, 02:11 PM
Lebron is 34, they won't be in contention for another 2 years. can he keep it up?

Exactly. The third year of his contract will be do or die if nothing has been won by then, otherwise the townsfolk would definitely get restless. Fourth year would be pure desperation.

Of course there is still the unknown factor that could change the entire outlook. Something similar to the absurdly shady Pau Gasol "trade" could happen, significant injuries, or another superteam could arise in the meantime. We'll have to wait and see.

valade16
07-02-2018, 02:16 PM
So twice?

And neither team he left is going to win a championship after he left despite them winning one when he was there. Coincidence?

HandsOnTheWheel
07-02-2018, 02:39 PM
Welcome HandsOnTheWheel!

Lol thanks bro!! :cheers:

Jamiecballer
07-02-2018, 02:48 PM
The Lakers have a legacy of Hall of fame players who have brought championships to LA. Wilt, Magic, KAJ, Shaq and of course Kobe have all won titles and are on the all time top ten list. LeBron now joins this list but if he does not bring a title to LA, will he be as fondly remembered as the other five?

Where do you value LeBron on this Laker great list and if he does not win a title where does he fall just being in LA and adding to the history?

If he brings a title, where would that place him?he's immediately the best player ever to wear the uniform. what happens after won't change that

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ewing
07-02-2018, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=valade16;32433638]And neither team he left is going to win a championship after he left despite them winning one when he was there. Coincidence?[/QUOTE

all time great leaves and team isn't has good, great insight

valade16
07-02-2018, 03:54 PM
all time great leaves and team isn't as good, great insight

Isn't as good is a very polite way of saying "team sucks ***"

Silent
07-02-2018, 04:08 PM
nba2k19 gonna be a ***** for people if some one picks the all time lakers lol

Chronz
07-02-2018, 04:29 PM
Like Wilt he will be remember as an Uber talented self-centered mercenary. Respected but never loved like Magic or Kobe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kobe got to la precisely because he was a mercenary, calling shots before ever drafted. Magic was similar, couldn't take it to kobe's extreme due to the era but he did threaten to go back to college if anyone but the team with the mvp got to draft him.

Wilt is a great comp given their dominance but he actually left a better team to go to LA, dude later regretted the decision but it speaks to his values at the time. Wilt valued respect over winning that's for sure.

On that note, how many wins these Cavs getting?

ewing
07-02-2018, 04:34 PM
Isn't as good is a very polite way of saying "team sucks ***"

Poor LeBron, had to play with Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love, Irving.... how much can one man take.

Chronz
07-02-2018, 04:36 PM
[QUOTE=valade16;32433638]And neither team he left is going to win a championship after he left despite them winning one when he was there. Coincidence?[/QUOTE

all time great leaves and team isn't has good, great insight

Ive seen other teams do much better without their all time great

valade16
07-02-2018, 04:38 PM
Poor LeBron, had to play with Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love, Irving.... how much and one man take.

Had he left a team that had all of them on it, I'd agree. But seeing as how the only person you listed that was on his team is Love I'm not sure what you're implying.

Because he played on stacked teams in the past somehow meant that the current Cavs are stacked because Wade was on Bron's team 5 years ago?

ewing
07-02-2018, 04:49 PM
Had he left a team that had all of them on it, I'd agree. But seeing as how the only person you listed that was on his team is Love I'm not sure what you're implying.

Because he played on stacked teams in the past somehow meant that the current Cavs are stacked because Wade was on Bron's team 5 years ago?

when you get paid, treated well, make/influence personal decisions, and the team is successful you shouldn't jump ship the first time something looks like it might be better. He will be remembered as one of the greatest basketball players ever and a self centered drama queen

valade16
07-02-2018, 04:54 PM
when you get paid, treated well, make/influence personal decisions, and the team is successful you shouldn't jump ship the first time something looks like it might be better. He will be remembered as one of the greatest basketball players ever and a self centered drama queen

While I agree fundamentally with what you're saying, this is the only distinction I want to make. It's phrased that way because saying 'and the team is good' was probably too facetious even for you to say.

The Cavs were successful both times because of Bron. They are terrible teams without him. You know this, I know this, we all know this.

I get you think what he is doing is cowardly, I don't necessarily disagree. But let's not act like he's walking away from anything other than hot garbage.

mngopher35
07-02-2018, 05:12 PM
Lebron's legacy is already set for the most part but ya I do think his biggest critics are now on his side type thing. If he did win a title here it might be the last step towards being 1B/actual Jordan discussions. I definitely don't think he will be as fondly remembered though by LA because they may not win with GS around (although we have to see about Kawhi and other moves until we know).

2010 with Lebron Cavs: 61-21
2011 Cavs no Lebron: 19-63

We know Heat added tons of talent so they jumped and it might not be just Lebron so won't cover their jump from 2010/2011

2014 Miami Heat with Lebron: 54-28 Finals loss
2015 Miami Heat: 37-45 no playoffs (19-25 with Bosh, should note due to his issues after that, still losing record)

2014 Cavs no Lebron: 33-49 no playoffs (hadn't been since Lebron left, were not drawing other high level FA in)
2015 with Lebron: 53-29 finals run even with Klove injury

We will get another chance now to see what happens to a team Lebron joins and leaves. People can say well obviously a great player will make that major difference but what happened when Jordan left to play baseball?

57-25 finals win
55-27 lose in eastern semis without him

This is what it looks like to have a very great cast/stacked team. Even without you they will be winning at a high level and even winning a playoff series etc. (and this wasn't talked about as a weak east in the same ways as today either so it should have been tougher for those Bulls to even make playoffs). I am not saying the numbers above mean he didn't have help, I am just saying it's nothing like a team capable of doing work without you which many greats including the GOAT have had.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 05:16 PM
While I agree fundamentally with what you're saying, this is the only distinction I want to make. It's phrased that way because saying 'and the team is good' was probably too facetious even for you to say.

The Cavs were successful both times because of Bron. They are terrible teams without him. You know this, I know this, we all know this.

I get you think what he is doing is cowardly, I don't necessarily disagree. But let's not act like he's walking away from anything other than hot garbage.

every time he left a team this was a common fact. Bosh/Wade were great for him, Wade broke down fast, Bosh was the most willing 1st to 3rd option I have ever seen. Irving/Love (when actually healthy) were enough to win a title with LeBron leading them. But they couldn't stay healthy or around enough when it mattered to sustain. The rest of his role players were crap, but that is expected when you use so much FA additions to improve, versus draft picks/retention.

LeBron is self centered. He is arrogant. He is a "poor me" guy. But he has done more with what he has had than any other player I think could have.

ewing
07-02-2018, 05:41 PM
While I agree fundamentally with what you're saying, this is the only distinction I want to make. It's phrased that way because saying 'and the team is good' was probably too facetious even for you to say.

The Cavs were successful both times because of Bron. They are terrible teams without him. You know this, I know this, we all know this.

I get you think what he is doing is cowardly, I don't necessarily disagree. But let's not act like he's walking away from anything other than hot garbage.

If he didn't hold the franchise hostage so he could have this type of flexibility there is a good chance Irving is still on the team. They won a chip with that core.

Chronz
07-03-2018, 01:33 PM
If he didn't hold the franchise hostage so he could have this type of flexibility there is a good chance Irving is still on the team. They won a chip with that core.

If the team would've acted like a good hostage, kyrie would still be in tow or replaced for someone better than bench guys. Lol Cavs get what they deserved, hope they enjoy their rookie who leaves in a few years

BKLYNpigeon
07-03-2018, 01:49 PM
Although none of the Lakers pieces make sense for Lebron. I actually like that Lakers team. Theyre short on shooters, but defensively they got dogs who compete and play hard.

Hawkeye15
07-03-2018, 02:02 PM
If the team would've acted like a good hostage, kyrie would still be in tow or replaced for someone better than bench guys. Lol Cavs get what they deserved, hope they enjoy their rookie who leaves in a few years

there are some teams that are just poorly run. My Wolves are an example (as are your Clips, or his Knicks). Just because we might be lucky enough to draft the next MJ doesn't mean we won't likely **** it up. That is what happened to Cleveland. Some teams are just collective idiots, typically it starts with the owner. Not everyone is as fortunate as Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Russell, Curry, Durant, etc. Some players are drafted by really, really stupid teams. So, you can either leave and get blasted, or stay and never win ****, and be blasted. May as well go win..

Chronz
07-03-2018, 04:28 PM
there are some teams that are just poorly run. My Wolves are an example (as are your Clips, or his Knicks). Just because we might be lucky enough to draft the next MJ doesn't mean we won't likely **** it up. That is what happened to Cleveland. Some teams are just collective idiots, typically it starts with the owner. Not everyone is as fortunate as Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Russell, Curry, Durant, etc. Some players are drafted by really, really stupid teams. So, you can either leave and get blasted, or stay and never win ****, and be blasted. May as well go win..

Some teams are just in Cleveland tho dude. And some guys might not like playing with a hyped youngster.

Look at Michael Redd man, I've brought him up in the main forum more than anyone, both because I thought he was underrated and because he was a hometown product and even he spurned a superior Cleveland team (thx to bron) for the sake of being the man (after waiting for ray to leave) in Milwaukee of all places. Small market lost to small market there, and Cleveland was way better

steamroller
07-04-2018, 04:02 AM
Is 4 years at the tail end of his career enough to create a "legacy?"

Lebron is going to age as gracefully as any player in nba history aside from Kareem if his play in his early 30's is any indication. Karl Malone was also exceptional in his late 30's

The difference is Lebron is essentially a 6'7", 265 lbs ball dominant point guard. A very different role compared to a Karl Malone or a Kareem.

Lebron will post MVP caliber numbers next season and quite possibly in Y2 with the Lakers. After that, it's anyone's guess as to how effective he will be. Based upon his free agent signings: rondo, Stephenson, javale, it looks like Lebron is looking to minimize his defensive effort during the regular season and maximize his offensive output.

I don't know, Lebron's decision this time around is a huge WTF question mark for me.

Hawkeye15
07-04-2018, 02:20 PM
Some teams are just in Cleveland tho dude. And some guys might not like playing with a hyped youngster.

Look at Michael Redd man, I've brought him up in the main forum more than anyone, both because I thought he was underrated and because he was a hometown product and even he spurned a superior Cleveland team (thx to bron) for the sake of being the man (after waiting for ray to leave) in Milwaukee of all places. Small market lost to small market there, and Cleveland was way better

no doubt in order to survive as small market team, you have to have a cool city, and good ownership. Cleveland is just kind of a craphole (no offense to anyone from there), where some cities are nicer. OKC doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but whatever. But bad run teams stay bad. The Knicks have every competitive advantage possible, and have sucked for 40 years for example.