PDA

View Full Version : Where does the Cavs go after losing LeBron?



redsox12
07-01-2018, 08:23 PM
Now that it's official that LeBron goes to the Lakers, where should they move as an organization? Should they fire sell out and trade Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, and JR Smith or should they try to still compete in the East and try to sign a big free agent in 2019 like Towns, Irving reunion?

Ty Fast
07-01-2018, 08:27 PM
I dont see anyone taking TT or JR Smith. They might be able to get something for Love tho.

Vee-Rex
07-01-2018, 08:30 PM
I hope we have a fire sale and tank.

Trade anything of value except Sexton, Cedi, Nance, and Zizic, take on back contracts for future picks, and go with a 4-5 year rebuild plan.

Scoots
07-01-2018, 08:30 PM
They want to "win without LeBron" which, as far as I can tell, means a full tear down as soon as possible.

Vee-Rex
07-01-2018, 08:31 PM
If we finish with a top 10 pick we will retain it instead of giving it to the Hawks - which means we need to tear it down.

TakeYourL
07-01-2018, 08:33 PM
None of those players are worth anything. Love has been nothing but exposed since joining the cavs as the fake stat stuffing star he always was. JR Smith is self explanatory.

And after Thompson took 99% of the season off, no team would think of trading for him either.

Scoots
07-01-2018, 08:36 PM
If we finish with a top 10 pick we will retain it instead of giving it to the Hawks - which means we need to tear it down.

My guess is they end up having to buyout/stretch a few of them.

Love, TT, Hill, JR, and Korver all have 2 years remaining and all of them are being paid WAY above their production. And that 2 years remaining is a killer since even the teams looking to sell their cap space only want 1 year deals.

Scoots
07-01-2018, 08:38 PM
None of those players are worth anything. Love has been nothing but exposed since joining the cavs as the fake stat stuffing star he always was. JR Smith is self explanatory.

And after Thompson took 99% of the season off, no team would think of trading for him either.

It's not that they are worthless ... there are several teams that would give them playing time ... it's just that no other teams want to pay them what they are signed for.

Vee-Rex
07-01-2018, 08:39 PM
Oh yeah, and for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE FIRE LUE. If I were Gilbert I'd be calling him right now to fire him. :laugh2:

Heediot
07-01-2018, 08:40 PM
Oh yeah, and for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE FIRE LUE. If I were Gilbert I'd be calling him right now to fire him. :laugh2:

better to keep him if they want to tank and rebuild.

hugepatsfan
07-01-2018, 08:41 PM
My hot take is that CLE is in ok position. All of their money is off the books after the next 2 seasons. They have a ton of useful but overpaid players. They should trade them for useless players on comparable deals and get picks in the process. Just tear it down for lottery picks and try to rebuild it back up in a few years.

Vee-Rex
07-01-2018, 08:48 PM
better to keep him if they want to tank and rebuild.

True. He'd make a great tank commander.

Maybe we can hire Hinkie as president of basketball operations.

TrustJoseph
07-01-2018, 08:50 PM
I really don't understand lebron making this move other than too cash in from the market one last time. Lakers have zero chance at being a factor for the next few years. Lebron will be missing the playoffs for sure.

AllBall
07-01-2018, 08:50 PM
Obviously to Seattle

corky831
07-01-2018, 08:53 PM
Honestly, they're going to have to strike gold in the draft because Cleveland won't be a free agency destination without Lebron

Wade n Fade
07-01-2018, 08:55 PM
Rebuild time. Gilbert should've sold the team after the Cavs won their first title. Could've possibly maximized his ROI and LeBron could've played with the Cavs until retirement. Oh well. Some Cavs fans may burn LeBron jerseys regardless.

carlessyen
07-01-2018, 08:59 PM
Hoping lebron wants TT in LA and makes a trade, Hoping we can move Hill, and JR as well. Im actually looking forward to a new Cavs team. I think Sexton going to surprise a lot of people. I think Love, Hood, Sexton, Nance, and Cedi still grab the 8 seed. Korver will prob be a six man award winner coming off this bench, cause scoring will be needed.

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 09:00 PM
Hoping lebron wants TT in LA and makes a trade, Hoping we can move Hill, and JR as well. Im actually looking forward to a new Cavs team. I think Sexton going to surprise a lot of people. I think Love, Hood, Sexton, Nance, and Cedi still grab the 8 seed. Korver will prob be a six man award winner coming off this bench, cause scoring will be needed.

Lmao, he doesn't want those bums anymore.

carlessyen
07-01-2018, 09:01 PM
I said TT not the rest, moving them doesnt mean to LA.

More-Than-Most
07-01-2018, 09:14 PM
we finally get to see how good the cavs are with love and without lebron... Lets see for all the lebron haters if this is still a playoff team like all you said.

DC22
07-01-2018, 09:14 PM
I really don't understand lebron making this move other than too cash in from the market one last time. Lakers have zero chance at being a factor for the next few years. Lebron will be missing the playoffs for sure.

You're joking, right? Just having LeBron puts them in the playoffs the next few years.

If they don't trade for Kawhi this year, he signs there next year. Solid vets will be signing for the minimum just to increase their value for next year and for a shot at a ring. The current Lakers roster will look a lot different by the time the season begins.

redsox12
07-01-2018, 09:14 PM
There was talk a few years ago about Thompson to TOR, maybe replace Jonas? K-Love to MIL if MIL loses Parker?

hugepatsfan
07-01-2018, 09:50 PM
Ainge has always liked Kevin Love. Wonder if he gets creative and tries to make a play for him. Would take a series of moves...

BOS gives: F Marcus Morris, F Semi Ojeleye, G/F Adbel Nader
DEN gives: F Wilson Chandler

Then after that...

BOS gives: F Wilson Chandler, G Terry Rozier, F/C Guershon Yabusele, F/C Robert Williams
CLE gives: F/C Kevin Love

BOS would then commit to being a tax team and re-sign Smart and maybe bring back Larkin with the bi-annual or partial MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Hayward / Smart
Tatum / Brown
Love / Theis
Horford / Baynes

I don't think BOS can pay Love long-term but Morris is like 99% gone next year for more money/bigger role and Rozier won't be kept if Kyrie re-ups. So those guys are one year "rentals" just like Love, except they aren't an all star caliber player like Love is. Rob Williams and Semi Ojeleye are talented but hardly key parts of Boston's future.

goingfor28
07-01-2018, 09:50 PM
Back to the bottom of the eastern conference

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Scoots
07-01-2018, 09:58 PM
better to keep him if they want to tank and rebuild.

Tanking is best done with a developmental coach who can build up the young guy's confidence. Is that Lue?

redsox12
07-01-2018, 10:09 PM
Ainge has always liked Kevin Love. Wonder if he gets creative and tries to make a play for him. Would take a series of moves...

BOS gives: F Marcus Morris, F Semi Ojeleye, G/F Adbel Nader
DEN gives: F Wilson Chandler

Then after that...

BOS gives: F Wilson Chandler, G Terry Rozier, F/C Guershon Yabusele, F/C Robert Williams
CLE gives: F/C Kevin Love

BOS would then commit to being a tax team and re-sign Smart and maybe bring back Larkin with the bi-annual or partial MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Hayward / Smart
Tatum / Brown
Love / Theis
Horford / Baynes

I don't think BOS can pay Love long-term but Morris is like 99% gone next year for more money/bigger role and Rozier won't be kept if Kyrie re-ups. So those guys are one year "rentals" just like Love, except they aren't an all star caliber player like Love is. Rob Williams and Semi Ojeleye are talented but hardly key parts of Boston's future.

I think Stevens would love a guy like Love, but I'm not sure how we afford Love, Kyrie, Hayward and Horford. Since Horford can opt out after next year, we could send Horford off to afford Love. For what it's worth I believe from past interviews and his inclusion in the Pepsi "Uncle Drew" series, Love and Kyrie has a good relationship.

tp13baby
07-01-2018, 10:12 PM
Hoping lebron wants TT in LA and makes a trade, Hoping we can move Hill, and JR as well. Im actually looking forward to a new Cavs team. I think Sexton going to surprise a lot of people. I think Love, Hood, Sexton, Nance, and Cedi still grab the 8 seed. Korver will prob be a six man award winner coming off this bench, cause scoring will be needed.

I believe none of this.

tp13baby
07-01-2018, 10:20 PM
Ainge has always liked Kevin Love. Wonder if he gets creative and tries to make a play for him. Would take a series of moves...

BOS gives: F Marcus Morris, F Semi Ojeleye, G/F Adbel Nader
DEN gives: F Wilson Chandler

Then after that...

BOS gives: F Wilson Chandler, G Terry Rozier, F/C Guershon Yabusele, F/C Robert Williams
CLE gives: F/C Kevin Love

BOS would then commit to being a tax team and re-sign Smart and maybe bring back Larkin with the bi-annual or partial MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Hayward / Smart
Tatum / Brown
Love / Theis
Horford / Baynes

I don't think BOS can pay Love long-term but Morris is like 99% gone next year for more money/bigger role and Rozier won't be kept if Kyrie re-ups. So those guys are one year "rentals" just like Love, except they aren't an all star caliber player like Love is. Rob Williams and Semi Ojeleye are talented but hardly key parts of Boston's future.

Chandler is only getting traded in a salary dump. Denver has no room to take back contracts. And if the did we arenít taking forwards back that canít play both the 2/3. We have a serious log jam at PF.

mightybosstone
07-01-2018, 10:32 PM
If you're Cleveland, you need to just maximize whatever assets you can while you still have those assets. Love needs to net them some quality young talent and/or good first round picks. And they need to just eat all of those bad salaries and tank until they're off the books, because nobody is going to want JR, Tristan or Hill at those numbers.

I really feel for Cleveland fans (not the front office), because the team so badly botched the Kyrie Irving situation. They had to know that Lebron was probably gone after this year, but rather than keeping their one young building block and ensuring him that he would be the future of the franchise after Lebron, they traded him to the highest bidder for the best short-term assets they could acquire.

And I understand why that decision was made. But only one year later, and they're just left with nothing. It's just going to be a lot of dark years for the Cavs and their fans. And they'll have that one title and the Lebron memories to keep them warm, but winter is definitely here, and things are looking pretty bleak...

hugepatsfan
07-01-2018, 10:32 PM
Chandler is only getting traded in a salary dump. Denver has no room to take back contracts. And if the did we arenít taking forwards back that canít play both the 2/3. We have a serious log jam at PF.

With so little cap space around the NBAi donít think you guys can dump Chandlers entire salary... this saves about 1/3 of it off ($4M) and saves the related tax on that incremental amount too.

Morris/Semi are both 3s and Morris in particular is a real asset in the rotation. I get that it isnít a perfect fit but you guys improve your rotation and save money. So I think itíd be a no brainer deal for you guys TBH.

Honestly though you guys are an insignificant part. Just plyg in some other teams expiring contract.

CELTICS4LYFE
07-01-2018, 10:33 PM
Trade for Kemba?

Scoots
07-01-2018, 10:49 PM
we finally get to see how good the cavs are with love and without lebron... Lets see for all the lebron haters if this is still a playoff team like all you said.

Did someone actually say that?!?

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 10:52 PM
Did someone actually say that?!?

Yes. Many (such as prodigy) said Love was ruined by playing with Bron. Kept repeating 26-14 (Love's stats). We'll see. Love will put up numbers but his value doesn't generate wins. It's just the goddamn truth. I'd take prime Love over Draymond Green. But championship team? Give me Draymond any day.

redsox12
07-01-2018, 10:54 PM
It's been brought up Love to the Celtics but Love to Philly could be a possibility as well.

SG Redick
PG Fultz
SF Simmons
PF Love
C Embiid

hugepatsfan
07-01-2018, 11:00 PM
Yes. Many (such as prodigy) said Love was ruined by playing with Bron. Kept repeating 26-14 (Love's stats). We'll see. Love will put up numbers but his value doesn't generate wins. It's just the goddamn truth. I'd take prime Love over Draymond Green. But championship team? Give me Draymond any day.

I mean, I think itís quite clear that Lebron hurts Loves game. But thatís for the better of the team. Love needs to be down the pecking order if heís on a team that can win.

Ideally for him though heíd be on a team that involves him more. I think he could thrive in a BOS/SA/GS system. Heíd still have to be down the pecking order but in those systems he can individually thrive in that role.

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 11:07 PM
I mean, I think itís quite clear that Lebron hurts Loves game. But thatís for the better of the team. Love needs to be down the pecking order if heís on a team that can win.

Ideally for him though heíd be on a team that involves him more. I think he could thrive in a BOS/SA/GS system. Heíd still have to be down the pecking order but in those systems he can individually thrive in that role.

I get it, really. I do. But there is no excuse for Love to average 15/10 in the playoffs on 40% shooting when the entire time, he was the 2nd option. Those stats are with Love playing well in the Finals. Before that, it was like 12 points and 8 rebounds on 37% shooting. That's not LeBron's fault. There is no excuse for a player of Love's caliber to play that bad. Check all his playoffs series for the Cavs. He's been terrible. I get getting loss opportunities, etc., but LeBron is not the reason Love has fallen off. Not at all.

KnickNyKnick
07-01-2018, 11:10 PM
Replace Bron with Beasley and they back in the finals

nastynice
07-01-2018, 11:13 PM
Now the kyrie trade is gonna haunt this organization. If they had love and kyrie on the roster they could still contend in the east, but now they have basically nothing. They should hold love for now, trade value should increase as time goes on

nastynice
07-01-2018, 11:29 PM
And I understand why that decision was made. ...

Why? Made NO sense to me..

Prob were betting the Brooklyn pick would be higher

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 11:31 PM
Now the kyrie trade is gonna haunt this organization. If they had love and kyrie on the roster they could still contend in the east, but now they have basically nothing. They should hold love for now, trade value should increase as time goes on

No they won't. Think about it: LeBron barely got past the Pacers and Celtics. What makes you think Kyrie gets them a contender status?

Scoots
07-01-2018, 11:44 PM
Yes. Many (such as prodigy) said Love was ruined by playing with Bron. Kept repeating 26-14 (Love's stats). We'll see. Love will put up numbers but his value doesn't generate wins. It's just the goddamn truth. I'd take prime Love over Draymond Green. But championship team? Give me Draymond any day.

But Prodigy actually literally said in print that the Cavs last year without LeBron make the playoffs?

nastynice
07-01-2018, 11:45 PM
No they won't. Think about it: LeBron barely got past the Pacers and Celtics. What makes you think Kyrie gets them a contender status?

Because kyrie and love are two all stars, that's enough talent to contend in the east, especially if all this cap space available from Lebron leaving

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 11:47 PM
Because kyrie and love are two all stars, that's enough talent to contend in the east, especially if all this cap space available from Lebron leaving

So you're telling me Kyrie minus LeBron turns the Cavs into a contender? Lol. Hahahaha.

nastynice
07-01-2018, 11:55 PM
So you're telling me Kyrie minus LeBron turns the Cavs into a contender? Lol. Hahahaha.

I'm telling you kyrie and love are good enough to make your team contend in the east, prob one step down from Philly and Boston. That's why the trade made no sense

FlashBolt
07-01-2018, 11:59 PM
I'm telling you kyrie and love are good enough to make your team contend in the east, prob one step down from Philly and Boston. That's why the trade made no sense

Do they even make the playoffs? Be real, dude.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 12:08 AM
Do they even make the playoffs? Be real, dude.

I'm sitting here telling you they'd be a contender, you're asking me this?

After Philly and Boston, you got Wall Beal, you got oladipo, you got giannis, derozan Lowry, etc... Love kyrie isn't on par with this??

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:11 AM
I'm sitting here telling you they'd be a contender, you're asking me this?

Cavs, with LeBron, barely beat the Pacers and the Celtics (without Kyrie/Hayward). Now you're telling me they can be a contender on the East with a much inferior player in Kyrie. Does your brain operate at any degree of frequency?

Vinylman
07-02-2018, 12:18 AM
My guess is they end up having to buyout/stretch a few of them.

Love, TT, Hill, JR, and Korver all have 2 years remaining and all of them are being paid WAY above their production. And that 2 years remaining is a killer since even the teams looking to sell their cap space only want 1 year deals.

hill jr and Korver are all basically on one year deals with very little guaranteed next year... TT is the only pseudo bad deal and it really isn't that bad. They will be players at the deadline if they want but are a playoff team if they stand pat... tough decision

carlessyen
07-02-2018, 12:18 AM
Hell No I dont want Kyrie back hes horrible. Third worst defender in the league now Trae is here.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 12:20 AM
Cavs, with LeBron, barely beat the Pacers and the Celtics (without Kyrie/Hayward). Now you're telling me they can be a contender on the East with a much inferior player in Kyrie. Does your brain operate at any degree of frequency?

The thing you have to do here is understand that you don't just take lebron out of the lineup and then subtract his ppg to see how many points per game this team would score. Two all star talents, plus room to make moves from Lebrons salary off the books, yes, this team can clearly become something in the east a step below Boston and Philly

You remove lebron from that team and you open up a lot of things for other guys. Again, two all stars and flexibility to focus on them, yes, clearly in the runnijg to become a tier 2 team in the east

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:21 AM
The thing you have to do here is understand that you don't just take lebron out of the lineup and then subtract his ppg to see how many points per game this team would score. Two all star talents, plus room to make moves from Lebrons salary off the books, yes, this team can clearly become something in the east a step below Boston and Philly

You remove lebron from that team and you open up a lot of things for other guys. Again, two all stars and flexibility to focus on them, yes, clearly in the runnijg to become a tier 2 team in the east

Lol. You are trying to tell me Kyrie can replicate LeBron's impact. You never had an argument to be made. Cavs fan know Love+Kyrie aren't contending anything. Tier 2 team in the East is not contending. Idk if you know what the word contending means but it seems you don't.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 12:28 AM
Lol. You are trying to tell me Kyrie can replicate LeBron's impact. You never had an argument to be made. Cavs fan know Love+Kyrie aren't contending anything. Tier 2 team in the East is not contending. Idk if you know what the word contending means but it seems you don't.

Kyrie can't replicate Lebrons impact, but that's a whole diff team if you take lebron off of it. All of a sudden, kyrie and Rodney hood is a damn good looking back court. Alot of roles would change in order to go through kyrie and love

Bro, I don't know if you get what I'm saying, you don't just subtract a player and assume everything else stays the same. Your take makes no actual sense

Contending means they can realistically get to the ECF, not favored to, but it's a real possibility to upset someone in round 2

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:34 AM
Kyrie can't replicate Lebrons impact, but that's a whole diff team if you take lebron off of it. All of a sudden, kyrie and Rodney hood is a damn good looking back court. Alot of roles would change in order to go through kyrie and love

Bro, I don't know if you get what I'm saying, you don't just subtract a player and assume everything else stays the same. Your take makes no actual sense

Contending means they can realistically get to the ECF, not favored to, but it's a real possibility to upset someone in round 2

Your logic makes no sense.

LeBron made the Cavs a contender.
LeBron barely got them past the Pacers and Sixers.
LeBron is infinitely better than Irving.

Irving does NOTHING better than LeBron other than FT's, shooting, and dribbling the ball.

Now you're telling me Kyrie will somehow change this Cavs team enough to be contenders (just like LeBron made them) because of what exactly? What do you think Kyrie changes to help the Cavs the way LeBron did? I bet you won't know because you have no clue what you're talking about, as usual. I'll wait for your answer, though. Please tell me how Kyrie would help the Cavs contend because the #2-#3 GOAT player in the NBA at his prime barely got them past the Pacers/hobbled Boston Celtics with players with 21 year olds.

Your logic is terrible. I do get your point. I'm way past that simpleton thinking. It's not even worth debating for me because I know for a fact Kyrie will never generate the impact LeBron can on any team. Not even close.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 12:49 AM
Your logic makes no sense.

LeBron made the Cavs a contender.
LeBron barely got them past the Pacers and Sixers.
LeBron is infinitely better than Irving.

Irving does NOTHING better than LeBron other than FT's, shooting, and dribbling the ball.

Now you're telling me Kyrie will somehow change this Cavs team enough to be contenders (just like LeBron made them) because of what exactly? What do you think Kyrie changes to help the Cavs the way LeBron did? I bet you won't know because you have no clue what you're talking about, as usual. I'll wait for your answer, though. Please tell me how Kyrie would help the Cavs contend because the #2-#3 GOAT player in the NBA at his prime barely got them past the Pacers/hobbled Boston Celtics with players with 21 year olds.

Your logic is terrible. I do get your point. I'm way past that simpleton thinking. It's not even worth debating for me because I know for a fact Kyrie will never generate the impact LeBron can on any team. Not even close.

Bro, I didn't wanna take shots, but your thinking is what's simple here.

Watch, just follow me. How much did hood contribute these playoffs? Take lebron off and replace him with kyrie, what happens to hoods production and minutes? You get what I'm saying here? This is the problem with stats, you don't just add and subtract players like stat numbers, but this whole stat frenzy has people stuck on it

If kyrie replaces lebron, a lot more players get a lot more touches, especially hood, and also the offense changes and now love can play a little more from the mid range or with back to basket

So again, you have two all stars plus flexibility which allow some tailoring of the roster to the new philosophy moving forward

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:57 AM
Bro, I didn't wanna take shots, but your thinking is what's simple here.

Watch, just follow me. How much did hood contribute these playoffs? Take lebron off and replace him with kyrie, what happens to hoods production and minutes? You get what I'm saying here? This is the problem with stats, you don't just add and subtract players like stat numbers, but this whole stat frenzy has people stuck on it

If kyrie replaces lebron, a lot more players get a lot more touches, especially hood, and also the offense changes and now love can play a little more from the mid range or with back to basket

So again, you have two all stars plus flexibility which allow some tailoring of the roster to the new philosophy moving forward

LMFAO. Did you watch Hood play? They benched him for a reason. So you're telling me Kyrie would help Rodney Hood's game more than LeBron? Bro, just stop. Rodney Hood? LMFAO. Think about this: If Rodney Hood was so good, why did Utah give him up for Crowder - who is garbage? A lot more players get a lot more touches.. Thanks for proving my point.. No one on the Cavs deserved to have the ball. Do me a favor and watch Jordan Clarkson play with the Cavs. He was terrible with/without Bron on the court. But wait, Rodney Hood is supposed to be a gamechanger now. Stop it, please. You clearly haven't watched many games outside the Warriors to have an opinion on things. It's funny you think you are trying to teach me a concept that I have taken into consideration when I made my original comment. LeBron pummeled the ball because he was the best option almost every single play.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:05 AM
LMFAO. Did you watch Hood play? They benched him for a reason. So you're telling me Kyrie would help Rodney Hood's game more than LeBron? Bro, just stop. Rodney Hood? LMFAO. Think about this: If Rodney Hood was so good, why did Utah give him up for Crowder - who is garbage? A lot more players get a lot more touches.. Thanks for proving my point.. No one on the Cavs deserved to have the ball. Do me a favor and watch Jordan Clarkson play with the Cavs. He was terrible with/without Bron on the court. But wait, Rodney Hood is supposed to be a gamechanger now. Stop it, please. You clearly haven't watched many games outside the Warriors to have an opinion on things. It's funny you think you are trying to teach me a concept that I have taken into consideration when I made my original comment. LeBron pummeled the ball because he was the best option almost every single play.

Exactly. If he's not the best option then hoods getting a lot of touches. He's not a game changer, but he's a good player, straight up. Clarkson is bad. So yes, of course kyrie would help hoods game, with Lebron hoods game is an after thought. How do you not get this?

Yea bro, I only watch the warriors. That's why I been telling yall d mitch a stud, no one said nothing, then playoffs come and everyone comes around. I learned that by watching the warriors

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:07 AM
You just said Kyrie can help Rodney Hood. Bro, stop!!!! You clearly have never seen Rodney Hood play other than game 3 vs Warriors when he made like 16 points.

Scoots
07-02-2018, 01:13 AM
nasty, I think Flash fundamentally doesn't agree with the sentiment that LeBron's strict adherence to playing LeBron-ball ever has a negative effect on his teammates. Let me try a different version of it ... the Warriors with essentially similar talent in a ISO heavy, frankly bad offensive system were an above average team ... the next year they went to a motion, pace and space offense that would flow from one set to another quickly and everyone got to touch and act on the ball and they had the best record in the NBA and won a title. The difference was the system those players played it. If you take these Cavs, replace LeBron with Kyrie AND replace LeBron-ball with something like the pace and space offensive system spreading across the league then the team may well all play significantly better and make the playoffs and maybe even have a better record.

I think I get the point, but it's all just mental masturbation, and people who are Lebron-philes will never accept it any more than the similar arguments around Kobe and MJ will ever get through to the fans of those players.

mrblisterdundee
07-02-2018, 01:16 AM
I'd like to see Utah make a run at Kevin Love. He'd fit great next to Gobert in the front court, while providing Utah a second go-to scorer beyond Mitchell.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:18 AM
You just said Kyrie can help Rodney Hood. Bro, stop!!!! You clearly have never seen Rodney Hood play other than game 3 vs Warriors when he made like 16 points.

You understood what I said right? Kyrie helps more automatically because off the bat he's now allowed to find his game, something that's harder for him to do next to someone like lebron

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:19 AM
nasty, I think Flash fundamentally doesn't agree with the sentiment that LeBron's strict adherence to playing LeBron-ball ever has a negative effect on his teammates. Let me try a different version of it ... the Warriors with essentially similar talent in a ISO heavy, frankly bad offensive system were an above average team ... the next year they went to a motion, pace and space offense that would flow from one set to another quickly and everyone got to touch and act on the ball and they had the best record in the NBA and won a title. The difference was the system those players played it. If you take these Cavs, replace LeBron with Kyrie AND replace LeBron-ball with something like the pace and space offensive system spreading across the league then the team may well all play significantly better and make the playoffs and maybe even have a better record.

I think I get the point, but it's all just mental masturbation, and people who are Lebron-philes will never accept it any more than the similar arguments around Kobe and MJ will ever get through to the fans of those players.

No, clown. The Cavs team just isn't good so my point is Kyrie wouldn't be able to lead that team to a contender status because it would require a generational talent to be able to lead that team. It's not a dig at Kyrie but Kyrie isn't capable of carrying franchises. This is a terrible roster. The coach has said LeBron has to play 48 minutes and handle the ball because that's what the team needs him to do. But go ahead, Scoots. Keep mentioning my name. I know you love me.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:20 AM
nasty, I think Flash fundamentally doesn't agree with the sentiment that LeBron's strict adherence to playing LeBron-ball ever has a negative effect on his teammates. Let me try a different version of it ... the Warriors with essentially similar talent in a ISO heavy, frankly bad offensive system were an above average team ... the next year they went to a motion, pace and space offense that would flow from one set to another quickly and everyone got to touch and act on the ball and they had the best record in the NBA and won a title. The difference was the system those players played it. If you take these Cavs, replace LeBron with Kyrie AND replace LeBron-ball with something like the pace and space offensive system spreading across the league then the team may well all play significantly better and make the playoffs and maybe even have a better record.

I think I get the point, but it's all just mental masturbation, and people who are Lebron-philes will never accept it any more than the similar arguments around Kobe and MJ will ever get through to the fans of those players.

I'm not even saying it as a negative towards lebron, I'm just saying, it is what it is. If Cleveland held kyrie they would right now have two all stars plus a lot of flexibility, how is that not a good situation in the east?

That trade was a bust, especially seeing how IT was injured and the Brooklyn pick wasnt as high as it could have been

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:21 AM
No, clown. The Cavs team just isn't good so my point is Kyrie wouldn't be able to lead that team to a contender status because it would require a generational talent to be able to lead that team. It's not a dig at Kyrie but Kyrie isn't capable of carrying franchises. This is a terrible roster. The coach has said LeBron has to play 48 minutes and handle the ball because that's what the team needs him to do. But go ahead, Scoots. Keep mentioning my name. I know you love me.

Your use of the word clown tells me you are slowly starting to understand the stupidity behind your take! Haha

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:22 AM
"If you replaced Bron and have more spacing, the team may very well play better."

It's not me being a LeBron-phile. It's you borderline being a hater at this point.

LOb0
07-02-2018, 01:23 AM
I'm not even saying it as a negative towards lebron, I'm just saying, it is what it is. If Cleveland held kyrie they would right now have two all stars plus a lot of flexibility, how is that not a good situation in the east?

That trade was a bust, especially seeing how IT was injured and the Brooklyn pick wasnt as high as it could have been

It was. They traded Kyrie for what ended up being: Sexton, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance and Rodney Hood.

That is terrible.

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 01:26 AM
Your use of the word clown tells me you are slowly starting to understand the stupidity behind your take! Haha

Because a Warriors fan (who I know dislikes me) agrees with another Warriors fan (who gets called out for being a clueless poster constantly), you think I'm running away from my take? Lmao. You have no idea. I can't believe I even entertained this discussion. Kyrie leading the Cavs to contender status because he can make Rodney Hood better. Kyrie can make J.R. Smith better too, I guess. All because Kyrie is a better what than LeBron? Is he a better leader, passer, rebounder, defender, efficient scorer, basketball player? None. It's easy for you guys to say, "what ifs" but we've seen the result. We've seen Kyrie lead his own team to nowhere. And we've seen LeBron lead terrible teams to the Finals. Now you're telling me Kyrie can do it because he creates more pace/space for the Cavs than LeBron. Clowns.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:29 AM
"If you replaced Bron and have more spacing, the team may very well play better."

It's not me being a LeBron-phile. It's you borderline being a hater at this point.

Haha, what is there to even hate? Lebrons in friggin LA now!

*is THIS why this convo got so weird so quick? You still on that homer ****?

carlessyen
07-02-2018, 01:48 AM
It was. They traded Kyrie for what ended up being: Sexton, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance and Rodney Hood.
That is terrible.

I'd take those group of young men over Kyrie any day. Kyrie will be out of Boston in no time. They will realize he doesnt fit. Will blow a lot of plays defensively and will hold the ball on offense far to long, will mess up chemistry. Guarantee Kyrie isnt wearing a Celtics jersey in 2020

Dade County
07-02-2018, 02:03 AM
Love to the Spurs or Boston.

Cavs try to be competitive this upcoming season. Then after that, they tank hard.

mightybosstone
07-02-2018, 08:06 AM
If the Cavs try to compete this season, it will go very poorly for them. They'd be lucky to win 40 games as currently constructed, and by not dealing what few valuable veterans they have left for picks and prospects, they're only going to further set back the rebuild process.

The Cavs' front office needs to wake up and recognize their situation. Even in the East, that team has zero chance to be competitive.

JAZZNC
07-02-2018, 08:27 AM
I'd like to see Utah make a run at Kevin Love. He'd fit great next to Gobert in the front court, while providing Utah a second go-to scorer beyond Mitchell.

I'd like to see this experiment. I don't know what we could give up to get him that Cleveland would want. I know we have Burks expiring but aside from that I don't know. Could work a sign and trade with Favors but I doubt they want him.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-02-2018, 08:30 AM
I wouldn't mind Love on the Bucks as a small ball center.

Scoots
07-02-2018, 09:31 AM
Because a Warriors fan (who I know dislikes me) agrees with another Warriors fan (who gets called out for being a clueless poster constantly), you think I'm running away from my take? Lmao. You have no idea. I can't believe I even entertained this discussion. Kyrie leading the Cavs to contender status because he can make Rodney Hood better. Kyrie can make J.R. Smith better too, I guess. All because Kyrie is a better what than LeBron? Is he a better leader, passer, rebounder, defender, efficient scorer, basketball player? None. It's easy for you guys to say, "what ifs" but we've seen the result. We've seen Kyrie lead his own team to nowhere. And we've seen LeBron lead terrible teams to the Finals. Now you're telling me Kyrie can do it because he creates more pace/space for the Cavs than LeBron. Clowns.

I don't dislike you, and I wasn't agreeing I was trying to explain what I thought nasty's take was.

I do think you've been acting progressively more snarky and think you maybe should examine yourself, because if your online persona is representative of the offline one you are a very unhappy person and I'm sorry you are suffering so.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 10:48 AM
I hope we have a fire sale and tank.

Trade anything of value except Sexton, Cedi, Nance, and Zizic, take on back contracts for future picks, and go with a 4-5 year rebuild plan.

this is the only correct answer. Honestly, like last time, they need to start over entirely. The Cavs will suck now. May as well not suck and have no options..

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 10:49 AM
I'm not even saying it as a negative towards lebron, I'm just saying, it is what it is. If Cleveland held kyrie they would right now have two all stars plus a lot of flexibility, how is that not a good situation in the east?

That trade was a bust, especially seeing how IT was injured and the Brooklyn pick wasnt as high as it could have been

even in a weak east, an Irving/Love led team isn't doing any damage the way Cle is constructed. Irving is one of the more overrated players in the game, Love clearly was as well.

Ty Fast
07-02-2018, 11:22 AM
Oh yeah, and for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE FIRE LUE. If I were Gilbert I'd be calling him right now to fire him. :laugh2:

Ty Lue to LA?

Vinylman
07-02-2018, 11:31 AM
Ty Lue to LA?

nah Ö he already won a chip in LA

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 11:44 AM
nah Ö he already won a chip in LA

and got walked over by the greatest chucker ever

Vinylman
07-02-2018, 11:47 AM
and got walked over by the greatest chucker ever

yeah... that was hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAZvvaT79g8

GREATNESS ONE
07-02-2018, 11:48 AM
Cavs value plummeted...

ManningToTyree
07-02-2018, 11:54 AM
Tank for Lebron Jr.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 12:20 PM
I don't dislike you, and I wasn't agreeing I was trying to explain what I thought nasty's take was.

I do think you've been acting progressively more snarky and think you maybe should examine yourself, because if your online persona is representative of the offline one you are a very unhappy person and I'm sorry you are suffering so.

Nice try but that's you who should take your own advice. My "snarkyness" is due to us agreeing not to comment to each other and you've been mentioning me numerous times. Maybe you should be the grown up and stop taking the temptation to comment on me.

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:47 PM
even in a weak east, an Irving/Love led team isn't doing any damage the way Cle is constructed. Irving is one of the more overrated players in the game, Love clearly was as well.

Sure, well they're constructed to be around lebron, so of course they would make moves, which they could w the cap space

Love wasn't overrated in Cle, he just played next to lebron and his role didn't play to his strengths

nastynice
07-02-2018, 01:57 PM
.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 02:51 PM
They should trade Love back to the Wolves for Wiggins.

Vee-Rex
07-02-2018, 03:13 PM
They should trade Love back to the Wolves for Wiggins.

No thanks. I'd rather have a mid-1st round pick.

Hawkeye15
07-02-2018, 03:16 PM
No thanks. I'd rather have a mid-1st round pick.

Can you give us a washing machine for Wiggins at least?

FlashBolt
07-02-2018, 03:24 PM
Can you give us a washing machine for Wiggins at least?

i think you guys are the ones who should be giving teams extra to take on Wiggins

MILLERHIGHLIFE
07-02-2018, 04:58 PM
I heard conflicting reports about Love. One says he's on the trade block other report he isn't being shopped.