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Wade n Fade
06-29-2018, 01:41 AM
Miami has its notable "Heat Culture." Does Miami need to reshape their philosophies and rebuild?

The Heat Culture may be the major reason Miami decided to sign some mediocre or decent players to shoddy contracts. Before his 4-year contract, Hassan Whiteside could've been a Boston problem if the team traded him for a pick. Tyler Johnson will make over $19 mill this year. James Johnson makes above $14 mill. Dion Waiters should've been allowed to walk to NYK. The Magic wanted Goran Dragic before. The Heat could've gotten assets back since a rebuild is necessary to compete with younger and more talented squads.

What did Danny Ainge do after seeing his Celtics "Big 4" fail against the Big 3 Heat squads? He traded away older pieces and revamped his squad. Yes, the Nets provided a plethora of high quality picks thanks to Billy King's horrendous blunders. Could Miami learn from this example and strip down its mediocre team?

Miami had an opportunity to tank for a good 2017 draft pick as well. However, the team went on a nice run to finish 41-41. The record gave Miami the #9 seed and no-man's land territory. Just outside of receiving an opportunity to take Donovan Mitchell.

People say Miami is in the mix for LeBron. I just do not see the Spurs taking back an underwhelming package for Leonard. I do not see Miami doing a sign/trade with Cleveland for LeBron or Miami having the resources needed to trade bad contracts to assemble a new "Big 3."

Note for Heat fans: I do not mean to disparage the team. It's just the league's dynamics are shifting and Miami just doesn't have enough for an arms race to build another contender so quickly. It's hard to reload when a rebuild might be more suitable. Riley is one of the best FO Execs of all time. I think he can figure it out pretty quick too. However, I do not think he wants to do it because it would test his patience and he rather do one final hoorah.

FlashBolt
06-29-2018, 02:21 AM
Do any Heat fan realistically think LeBron is interested in going back to Miami to play with what is probably just slightly better than the Cavs roster? Don't get me wrong, you guys made the playoffs and all but him leaving Cleveland to go to a slightly better team in Miami just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The problem with Miami is they got desperate and tried to rush the process by signing players to silly contracts. If I am reading correctly, Tyler Johnson will get paid over $19 million next season. Why is he even worth half of that? Dion Waiters thinks he's Kobe but performs on way worse efficiency. He'll get $11 million next season. You have six players making a total of $100-104 million for each of the next two seasons. None of those players are all-NBA type players and one is only an All-Star because of injuries to the other All-Star players. James Johnson is getting paid $15 million. I don't think it's that bad but you need superstars to win in today's game. Whiteside is getting paid over $25 million. Your coach doesn't even trust putting him on the court. Honestly, if Miami had the cap space this season, you could very well have been the best free agency destination this season but sadly, you guys have none and a trade is the only thing you guys can offer but I'm not sure anyone wants those players at all. You already know none of them are opting out. They are taking that money.

Let's just be honest here: Miami (Pat Riley) screwed up the past few years trying to keep Miami relevant and it has only hurt them. The injury to Bosh is obviously a bump to their original plan but outside of that, Pat Riley has done a very bad job. Might be time to think about replacing Pat Riley and go full rebuild in two years.

Lakers + Giants
06-29-2018, 05:08 AM
^ This

HandsOnTheWheel
06-29-2018, 07:21 AM
Can't begin to rebuild till 2021 bc of the pick situation. The Bosh blood clots and Lebron leaving were huge curveballs for Pat to endure. Not that I was surprised Lebron left, but clearly Pat was still building the team with him staying in mind. If Bosh blood clots happens before we trade for Dragic, I doubt we trade the future unprotected picks. Tyler Johnson was definitely a mistake but I think it was Micky Arison or someone in that tree that wanted to match the Nets poison pill contract for him. He's not horrible but his contract for the next two years will look foolish for sure. Another mistake was definitely re-signing Whiteside and not trading him while his value was sky high. All the Heat fans kinda knew he was a headcase from the start, but never knew he was going to go full-on mental against his team. James Johnson and Waitors were definitely overpaid, though I will say they were paid after putting up really inflated stats and was the year Miami had that huge turnaraound and won 13 in a row with a bunch of nobodies. As a franchise that values loyalty, they've done a good job retaining their players and even getting guys to take less than their value on the open market, but just the wrong players. Seems like the old school mentality that made franchises successful in the past has done a complete 180 as you see high class organizations like Miami and San Antonio both on the brink of a possible rebuild.

More-Than-Most
06-29-2018, 07:38 AM
Do any Heat fan realistically think LeBron is interested in going back to Miami to play with what is probably just slightly better than the Cavs roster? Don't get me wrong, you guys made the playoffs and all but him leaving Cleveland to go to a slightly better team in Miami just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The problem with Miami is they got desperate and tried to rush the process by signing players to silly contracts. If I am reading correctly, Tyler Johnson will get paid over $19 million next season. Why is he even worth half of that? Dion Waiters thinks he's Kobe but performs on way worse efficiency. He'll get $11 million next season. You have six players making a total of $100-104 million for each of the next two seasons. None of those players are all-NBA type players and one is only an All-Star because of injuries to the other All-Star players. James Johnson is getting paid $15 million. I don't think it's that bad but you need superstars to win in today's game. Whiteside is getting paid over $25 million. Your coach doesn't even trust putting him on the court. Honestly, if Miami had the cap space this season, you could very well have been the best free agency destination this season but sadly, you guys have none and a trade is the only thing you guys can offer but I'm not sure anyone wants those players at all. You already know none of them are opting out. They are taking that money.

Let's just be honest here: Miami (Pat Riley) screwed up the past few years trying to keep Miami relevant and it has only hurt them. The injury to Bosh is obviously a bump to their original plan but outside of that, Pat Riley has done a very bad job. Might be time to think about replacing Pat Riley and go full rebuild in two years.

this times 10. On top of this the wade fiasco from start to finish only to bring that trash back and now have to probably deal with the retirement drama. Pat is hella overrated.

mightybosstone
06-29-2018, 07:54 AM
If they strike out with all the marquee free agents (which they almost certainly will), they really should blow it up and go in full tank mode. The worst possible place you can be in the NBA is the middle, and the Heat are quite literally stuck in that spot right now.

The only possible reason I can see for keeping this squad together is in the event that Riley knew he had a star coming this year or next, but I can't imagine that's the case at this point.

warfelg
06-29-2018, 08:10 AM
There's been a lot of good points already mead, but again the one I'm gonna put out there:

In the East, GM's often operate out of fear of losing a player than thinking ahead as to what it means. Miami didn't want to lose Whiteside because they didn't know how to replace him that year. Well, I say so what. I rather have a hole for 1 year at the 5 as opposed to having a guy you might not 100% believe in locked into a max.

I could say the same thing about Tyler Johnson. He had a decent year, and the Nets threw in the poison pill contract. Miami didn't need to operate out of fear of "how do we replace his production" and they really needed to say "is what he brings worth $20mil". I think the easy answer there is no, but again the fear of what do we do for the next year struck.

Same exact thing for Dion Waiters.

I don't think this is a uniquely Miami issue, as to me this ties into my reason that the West is much better than the East.

Scoots
06-29-2018, 09:02 AM
Like the Oakland Raiders were stuck for years waiting for Al Davis to retire (or die), so too are the Heat stuck waiting for Pat to retire.

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 09:21 AM
this times 10. On top of this the wade fiasco from start to finish only to bring that trash back and now have to probably deal with the retirement drama. Pat is hella overrated.

Another terrible post by you MTM

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 09:22 AM
Funny how Riley started making terrible decisions when Wade (the real GM) left

mightybosstone
06-29-2018, 09:28 AM
Funny how Riley started making terrible decisions when Wade (the real GM) left

I've always said Riley's "recruiting" job to get Lebron and Bosh to Miami was overrated and that he got way, way too much credit for the creation of that team. I'm sure that having him running things didn't hurt, but I always got the sense that it didn't matter who the GM was—those three guys were going to join forces in Miami regardless.

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 09:29 AM
Do any Heat fan realistically think LeBron is interested in going back to Miami to play with what is probably just slightly better than the Cavs roster? Don't get me wrong, you guys made the playoffs and all but him leaving Cleveland to go to a slightly better team in Miami just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The problem with Miami is they got desperate and tried to rush the process by signing players to silly contracts. If I am reading correctly, Tyler Johnson will get paid over $19 million next season. Why is he even worth half of that? Dion Waiters thinks he's Kobe but performs on way worse efficiency. He'll get $11 million next season. You have six players making a total of $100-104 million for each of the next two seasons. None of those players are all-NBA type players and one is only an All-Star because of injuries to the other All-Star players. James Johnson is getting paid $15 million. I don't think it's that bad but you need superstars to win in today's game. Whiteside is getting paid over $25 million. Your coach doesn't even trust putting him on the court. Honestly, if Miami had the cap space this season, you could very well have been the best free agency destination this season but sadly, you guys have none and a trade is the only thing you guys can offer but I'm not sure anyone wants those players at all. You already know none of them are opting out. They are taking that money.

Let's just be honest here: Miami (Pat Riley) screwed up the past few years trying to keep Miami relevant and it has only hurt them. The injury to Bosh is obviously a bump to their original plan but outside of that, Pat Riley has done a very bad job. Might be time to think about replacing Pat Riley and go full rebuild in two years.

Didn’t read the full post so you may have mentioned but, IF LeBron has a change Of heart about LA and the Heat were to get LeBron I would be very surprised if they didn’t have other moves up their sleeve to improve the roster. Not to mention the guys who will want to play for the team for the minimum. According to Sheridan don’t count Miami out in the Kawhi sweepstakes and since the spurs want to remain competitive and not rebuild after the trade the Heat may actually be a good option for them. If they land Kawhi do you think LeBron would say no to joining that?

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 09:34 AM
I've always said Riley's "recruiting" job to get Lebron and Bosh to Miami was overrated and that he got way, way too much credit for the creation of that team. I'm sure that having him running things didn't hurt, but I always got the sense that it didn't matter who the GM was—those three guys were going to join forces in Miami regardless.

Exactly and that doesn’t happen without Wade, who was a guy riley didn’t want to draft. Riley wanted chris kaman and then Randy Embry a former scout for Miami made him change his mind. Randy told me it was the best decision and scouting job of his career lol

prodigy
06-29-2018, 09:53 AM
I've always said Riley's "recruiting" job to get Lebron and Bosh to Miami was overrated and that he got way, way too much credit for the creation of that team. I'm sure that having him running things didn't hurt, but I always got the sense that it didn't matter who the GM was—those three guys were going to join forces in Miami regardless.

I've been saying the same. I honestly believe the big 3 going there had NOTHING to do with Riley. Bosh, wade and Bron are great friends. They made that decision together.

Wade n Fade
06-29-2018, 10:51 AM
Do any Heat fan realistically think LeBron is interested in going back to Miami to play with what is probably just slightly better than the Cavs roster? Don't get me wrong, you guys made the playoffs and all but him leaving Cleveland to go to a slightly better team in Miami just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The problem with Miami is they got desperate and tried to rush the process by signing players to silly contracts. If I am reading correctly, Tyler Johnson will get paid over $19 million next season. Why is he even worth half of that? Dion Waiters thinks he's Kobe but performs on way worse efficiency. He'll get $11 million next season. You have six players making a total of $100-104 million for each of the next two seasons. None of those players are all-NBA type players and one is only an All-Star because of injuries to the other All-Star players. James Johnson is getting paid $15 million. I don't think it's that bad but you need superstars to win in today's game. Whiteside is getting paid over $25 million. Your coach doesn't even trust putting him on the court. Honestly, if Miami had the cap space this season, you could very well have been the best free agency destination this season but sadly, you guys have none and a trade is the only thing you guys can offer but I'm not sure anyone wants those players at all. You already know none of them are opting out. They are taking that money.

Let's just be honest here: Miami (Pat Riley) screwed up the past few years trying to keep Miami relevant and it has only hurt them. The injury to Bosh is obviously a bump to their original plan but outside of that, Pat Riley has done a very bad job. Might be time to think about replacing Pat Riley and go full rebuild in two years.

I don't think LeBron comes here. I thought Houston offered the best possible option. Houston since he can go play with one Banana Boat friend and the league MVP (one game away from the NBA Finals). Throw in the no state taxes to maximize his potential salary.

But how will Miami rebuild though? The best Miami can do is send these overpaid guys to a team that can send trash back and compensate Miami with prospects and picks? Or the Heat can help facilitate deals and get compensated like the Nets?

Back in the 16/17 season, I was one of the few Heat fans that wanted to fully embrace the tank to go after Fultz/Ball. Looking how good Tatum is right now? Boston set themselves up beautifully without even having Hayward due to injury.

Wade n Fade
06-29-2018, 10:54 AM
I've been saying the same. I honestly believe the big 3 going there had NOTHING to do with Riley. Bosh, wade and Bron are great friends. They made that decision together.

It had something to do with Riley though. Riley drafted Caron Butler. Lamar Odom had a huge bounce back in Miami. If he didn't make the move for a disgruntled Shaq? The Lakers got back Butler and Odom as major pieces in that trade. Next, he relived SVG of his duties and coached the Heat to a 2006 NBA Championship. Without the title, there are less reasons to come down to Miami.

TakeYourL
06-29-2018, 11:31 AM
I def did a Weebay reaction after reading Tyler Johnson is getting 19 mill this year.

RowBTrice
06-29-2018, 12:30 PM
The real questions is, should a mod shift this thread to the Miami forum?

prodigy
06-29-2018, 01:31 PM
It had something to do with Riley though. Riley drafted Caron Butler. Lamar Odom had a huge bounce back in Miami. If he didn't make the move for a disgruntled Shaq? The Lakers got back Butler and Odom as major pieces in that trade. Next, he relived SVG of his duties and coached the Heat to a 2006 NBA Championship. Without the title, there are less reasons to come down to Miami.

none of that has anything to do with it lol. first off Miami beach is not a hard sell. also thats where Wade was, cavs did not have the means to get both and neither lebron or Wade wanted the raptors.

cmellofan15
06-29-2018, 01:46 PM
who


[Spoiler Tag]cares[/Spoiler Tag]

D-Leethal
06-29-2018, 02:11 PM
There's been a lot of good points already mead, but again the one I'm gonna put out there:

In the East, GM's often operate out of fear of losing a player than thinking ahead as to what it means. Miami didn't want to lose Whiteside because they didn't know how to replace him that year. Well, I say so what. I rather have a hole for 1 year at the 5 as opposed to having a guy you might not 100% believe in locked into a max.

I could say the same thing about Tyler Johnson. He had a decent year, and the Nets threw in the poison pill contract. Miami didn't need to operate out of fear of "how do we replace his production" and they really needed to say "is what he brings worth $20mil". I think the easy answer there is no, but again the fear of what do we do for the next year struck.

Same exact thing for Dion Waiters.

I don't think this is a uniquely Miami issue, as to me this ties into my reason that the West is much better than the East.

Yea, I give the Bulls and the Pacers to an extent props for seeing the writing on the wall with their stars and using them as assets to afford themselves a pretty quick retooling. Pacers a little further ahead of schedule because of Oladipo's emergence but both teams in a nice position going forward.

If you trade your star early enough and get some assets, you can swing it back around pretty quickly. Knicks ****ed that up with Melo and should have traded him years ago. Riley didn't really get anything for his guys and tried too hard to remain competitive.

Vee-Rex
06-29-2018, 02:33 PM
I remember the uproar from HEAT fans when I suggested they should blow it up when LeBron came back to Cleveland.

"Pat is the best ever!"
"We don't rebuild we re-tool!"
"Pat will take care of us!"

Overrated GM better figure out a way to give themselves a chance to actually compete for a title.

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 02:36 PM
I remember the uproar from HEAT fans when I suggested they should blow it up when LeBron came back to Cleveland.

"Pat is the best ever!"
"We don't rebuild we re-tool!"
"Pat will take care of us!"

Overrated GM better figure out a way to give themselves a chance to actually compete for a title.

To be fair the Bosh clots ****ed up everything. 2016 ECF would’ve been one for the ages.

Now that the real GM is back we’ll see what they can do but it may not be much because Riley cap strapped them while he was gone. Riley is washed, I hope he proves me wrong.

R. Johnson#3
06-29-2018, 02:44 PM
Didn’t read the full post so you may have mentioned but, IF LeBron has a change Of heart about LA and the Heat were to get LeBron I would be very surprised if they didn’t have other moves up their sleeve to improve the roster. Not to mention the guys who will want to play for the team for the minimum. According to Sheridan don’t count Miami out in the Kawhi sweepstakes and since the spurs want to remain competitive and not rebuild after the trade the Heat may actually be a good option for them. If they land Kawhi do you think LeBron would say no to joining that?

Please construct a trade package that would make the Spurs want to trade Kawhi to the Heat. I'm sure the Spurs are salivating over getting to take back one of Miami's overpriced players. The only player that holds ANY sort of value on the Heat is Dragic and that's not nearly enough to trade Kawhi for. The best package the Heat could probably come up with is Dragic, Bam and picks. I think it's safe to say that nobody wants TJ's, Whiteside's or JJ's deals and Dion Waiters thinks he's Michael Jordan.

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 02:47 PM
Please construct a trade package that would make the Spurs want to trade Kawhi to the Heat. I'm sure the Spurs are salivating over getting to take back one of Miami's overpriced players. The only player that holds ANY sort of value on the Heat is Dragic and that's not nearly enough to trade Kawhi for. The best package the Heat could probably come up with is Dragic, Bam and picks. I think it's safe to say that nobody wants TJ's, Whiteside's or JJ's deals and Dion Waiters thinks he's Michael Jordan.

You forgot JRich who is an all nba level defender and arguably he best shot blocking guard in the league right now who can shoot as well.

The Spurs said they want to remain competitive not rebuild with the deal.

Dragic JRich Winslow Bam and a 1st would do that. I would start with Dragic Window Bama and 2019 1st.

R. Johnson#3
06-29-2018, 02:52 PM
You forgot JRich who is an all nba level defender and arguably he best shot blocking guard in the league right now who can shoot as well.

The Spurs said they want to remain competitive not rebuild with the deal.

Dragic JRich Winslow Bam and a 1st would do that. I would start with Dragic Window Bama and 2019 1st.

JRich is a FA and Justise didn't show much improvement this year. Kawhi is top level talent who makes just about the same as Dragic. Your supporting pieces need to be WAY better and under contract.

WaDe03
06-29-2018, 02:58 PM
JRich is a FA and Justise didn't show much improvement this year. Kawhi is top level talent who makes just about the same as Dragic. Your supporting pieces need to be WAY better and under contract.

Winslow is a great defender and has improved his 3. He missed his entire 2nd season in the league basically due to injury, he’s still very young and has shown flashes of getting there. JRich is under contract through 2022 in what is arguably one of the best contracts in the league if he continues to improve at this rate. Bam his a ton of potential, Dragic was an all star, and here’s a 1st round pick for the hell of it.

That fits all the spurs wants and needs, good try though.

Dade County
06-29-2018, 09:47 PM
I remember the uproar from HEAT fans when I suggested they should blow it up when LeBron came back to Cleveland.

"Pat is the best ever!"
"We don't rebuild we re-tool!"
"Pat will take care of us!"

Overrated GM better figure out a way to give themselves a chance to actually compete for a title.

Win big or go home ... lol

Lbj made a horrible mistake going back to Cleveland, his 1-3 record in the Finals is proof of this (even though the media & most Cavs fans will try to spin it). I know he regrets it but it would be horrible for his image if that ever got out (horrible PR disaster).

So when he left, Pat should have just took care of Wade (gave him a better contract offer), and begin to covertly tank. Even though this is not the HEAT way.

So all in all, if Le-Con would have stayed with Pat, Miami/Lbj would have 2-3 more championships and all would have been good. This should be a listen to future NBA stars.

Don't leave a front office thats wants to win even more then you. Kawhi might be making a mistake if he doesn't end up with the Lakers this season. He did the right thing by letting the Spurs know, but he could have handled it differently.

FlashBolt
06-29-2018, 10:46 PM
Win big or go home ... lol

Lbj made a horrible mistake going back to Cleveland, his 1-3 record in the Finals is proof of this (even though the media & most Cavs fans will try to spin it). I know he regrets it but it would be horrible for his image if that ever got out (horrible PR disaster).

So when he left, Pat should have just took care of Wade (gave him a better contract offer), and begin to covertly tank. Even though this is not the HEAT way.

So all in all, if Le-Con would have stayed with Pat, Miami/Lbj would have 2-3 more championships and all would have been good. This should be a listen to future NBA stars.

Don't leave a front office thats wants to win even more then you. Kawhi might be making a mistake if he doesn't end up with the Lakers this season. He did the right thing by letting the Spurs know, but he could have handled it differently.

Horrible mistake how? Your Heat team won 2/4 and wasn't exactly getting any better. He won a ring for Cleveland in dramatic fashion and that ring meant more than any other ring(s) on a different team.

Dade County
06-29-2018, 11:15 PM
Horrible mistake how? Your Heat team won 2/4 and wasn't exactly getting any better. He won a ring for Cleveland in dramatic fashion and that ring meant more than any other ring(s) on a different team.

It still counts as one ring. When someone asked, how many titles Lbj has, they don't say 1. They say 3. But I get the whole beating GS, 73 win team.

You can easily see behind close doors they wanted Lbj to leave Miami. It wasn't a good look for the League at that time. So it goes with out saying the ground work was laid out so he can return back to the Cavs.

But the mistake was leaving a proven organization led by a championship driven GM (Pat), and thinking you can build your own team and have the same success or better. Pat would have kept on getting discounted vets, and making other moves for star players.

There is no way in hell, Pat would not have targeting KD when he was a free agent. GS just beat OKC, so you don't think Pat would have been their with open arms?

Unlike the Cav's since they had Lbj calling the shots, they didn't have the foresight and proper planning needed to make the team better, when a new challenge came up. You can't let a player run your damn front office. Lbj wanted more power and he got it. And what does he have to show for playing GM, 1-3 and ready to move on. Not bad, not hating, but it could have turned out differently for him.

The man look hurt as hell in game 4, near the end of the forth sitting on the bench. looking over at GS bench as they were all happy. Then he left as quick as possible. Lbj felt it, he knew he f'ed up big time.

So this is why when I see people even mentioning that he might stay with the Cavs, i am like they are totally not in touch with reality. And they haven't taken time to notice Lbj behavior patterns.

It was the worst mistake of his professional career going back to Dan gilbert. But I can admit, he did a very cool thing for Cleveland, and those fans are very grateful.

R. Johnson#3
06-30-2018, 12:06 AM
Winslow is a great defender and has improved his 3. He missed his entire 2nd season in the league basically due to injury, he’s still very young and has shown flashes of getting there. JRich is under contract through 2022 in what is arguably one of the best contracts in the league if he continues to improve at this rate. Bam his a ton of potential, Dragic was an all star, and here’s a 1st round pick for the hell of it.

That fits all the spurs wants and needs, good try though.

My bad on the JRich thing. The site I used had him listed as a FA. Honest mistake. Winslow didn't do much this year and I was comparing it to his rookie season, not last year. Maybe he needs another year but I wouldn't be valuing him that much from an outside perspective. You don't have a 1st this year or in 2021 according to rotoworld so the only 1st you could offer would be for 2020. Dragic is a good piece as I mentioned before but the Spurs have Dejounte Murray and Patty Mills at the 1.

In comparison the Raps could offer this. Ibaka+Delon+OG+2019 1st for Kawhi straight up. Aldridge is probably on his way out so Ibaka would fill that hole. OG would essentially take Kawhi's role and Delon, also being a 1 would have to spend time at the 2.

Neither offer is great but arguably the Raps could come up with a better offer than the Heat. They could replace Ibaka with JV if need be.

Quinnsanity
06-30-2018, 01:19 AM
The problem isn't Miami's culture. Miami's cultured should be revered on the level of any great organization in the NBA. The problem is that they made a number of bad decisions (T. Johnson, Waiters, Olynyk and J. Johnson contracts, passing on Boston's monster offer for the Winslow pick, the Dragic trade), and they had a string of bad luck (losing LeBron, losing Bosh, even winning one too many games in 2017 because if they'd picked one slot higher they could have had Donovan Mitchell instead of Bam Adebayo). These aren't cultural problems. They are just bad decisions. Even the best front offices make them. San Antonio shouldn't have extended Pau or Mills. Boston wanted to trade four first round picks for Justise Winslow. Teams can have a great culture without always making the right decision.

LaVar Ball
06-30-2018, 03:33 AM
Riley needs to retire

FlashBolt
06-30-2018, 04:03 AM
The league is changing so fast. I'm not sure you can simply sit down with someone, show them rings, and expect them to want to play for your team. Those days are likely over. You're going to need a much more modern approach.

ewing
06-30-2018, 04:53 PM
Pat Riley is old so he must be dumb too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

prodigy
07-05-2018, 09:59 AM
Lbj made a horrible mistake going back to Cleveland, his 1-3 record in the Finals is proof of this (even though the media & most Cavs fans will try to spin it). I know he regrets it but it would be horrible for his image if that ever got out (horrible PR disaster).

The dumbest post I've ever seen on PSD.

Scoots
07-05-2018, 10:13 AM
Pat Riley is old so he must be dumb too

It's possible to be smart and still be bad at your job. In Riley's case I think it's that he may be making decisions looking at too short a term for what's best for the team.

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 10:26 AM
My bad on the JRich thing. The site I used had him listed as a FA. Honest mistake. Winslow didn't do much this year and I was comparing it to his rookie season, not last year. Maybe he needs another year but I wouldn't be valuing him that much from an outside perspective. You don't have a 1st this year or in 2021 according to rotoworld so the only 1st you could offer would be for 2020. Dragic is a good piece as I mentioned before but the Spurs have Dejounte Murray and Patty Mills at the 1.

In comparison the Raps could offer this. Ibaka+Delon+OG+2019 1st for Kawhi straight up. Aldridge is probably on his way out so Ibaka would fill that hole. OG would essentially take Kawhi's role and Delon, also being a 1 would have to spend time at the 2.

Neither offer is great but arguably the Raps could come up with a better offer than the Heat. They could replace Ibaka with JV if need be.

Heat have their 1st in 2019 and 6 of the next 7 years.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 11:51 AM
Miami's culture of accountability, tough defense, and unselfish basketball is not a problem.

Sure I too criticise it for putting a bit too tight of reigns on rookie contact players. But that's not why we are where we are.

You can't plan for your perennial all-star to go down with blood clots and be forced to retire. Let's be honest, with a healthy Bosh, Miami is a regular 4-5 seed no problem at all.

There is nothing at all wrong with that.

Many of the fans are spoiled into thinking if you aren't contending every year you're garbage and should blow it up which is foolish and flawed logic.

Riley took the approach of remaining competitive and a playoff team. The flaws came in matching Tyler Johnson and overpaying JJ. Those are the only 2 contacts I think were overpays. Olynk, Richardson, even Dragic are all considered value contacts per their production. Waiters the jury is out on, but I still feel it could be an easily moveable deal once he resumes his normal 14-15 PPG production, $11-12M is not an overpay and he becomes tradeable if needed.

TheDish87
07-05-2018, 12:29 PM
what identity? i guess Wade is the identity but thats not saying much in 2018. probably an 8 seed or no playoffs this year

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 12:34 PM
what identity? i guess Wade is the identity but thats not saying much in 2018. probably an 8 seed or no playoffs this year

So with the Cavs losing LeBron, Waiters coming back, improvement from young guys and no team out east improving much KD anything right now they fall 2 spots or out of the playoffs?

TheDish87
07-05-2018, 01:27 PM
Sixers, Celtics, Raps, Wiz, Pacers, Bucks are all much better. Then they will battle it out with Charlotte, Detroit, Orlando and Chicago and get bounced easily in the first again. A team filled with a bunch of joes and an aging Dragic.

prodigy
07-05-2018, 01:53 PM
Sixers, Celtics, Raps, Wiz, Pacers, Bucks are all much better. Then they will battle it out with Charlotte, Detroit, Orlando and Chicago and get bounced easily in the first again. A team filled with a bunch of joes and an aging Dragic.

agreed. Unless the heat make some moves they will be in a lot of trouble. maybe 7th or 8th seed. but early exit.

Winning the east is the worse thing a team can do. I mean just gonna get rolled by that "team" out west anyway, then you get a crappy pick lol.

Man basketball is in trouble...

SteBO
07-05-2018, 01:56 PM
agreed. Unless the heat make some moves they will be in a lot of trouble. maybe 7th or 8th seed. but early exit.

Winning the east is the worse thing a team can do. I mean just gonna get rolled by that "team" out west anyway, then you get a crappy pick lol.

Man basketball is in trouble...
The only moves I wanna see us making are salary dumps at this point and accumulate some picks. If not possible, keep what we have, compete, and wait out the long term deals we foolishly doled out a year ago

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 02:49 PM
Sixers, Celtics, Raps, Wiz, Pacers, Bucks are all much better. Then they will battle it out with Charlotte, Detroit, Orlando and Chicago and get bounced easily in the first again. A team filled with a bunch of joes and an aging Dragic.

Bucks and wizards finished below them last year

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 03:01 PM
Honestly, not trying to be a hater, Miami has done nothing this offseason and so if I am a Heat fan, I would be ashamed with how this team is being managed. Sad that Wade will have to finish his career playing on a subpar team with Pat Riley not really doing much. Years ago, I said Whiteside is overrated because teams didn't care enough to gameplan for him. He's too raw and there was a Jeremy Lin type feel to his game where his game was eventually going to get exposed when teams cared enough to do so. Whiteside is overpaid and a baby. Tyler Johnson is overpaid 2x what he's worth. Dion Waiters, James Johnson... why are they getting paid over $26 million combined? Heat had zero All-Stars last season (Goran didn't count since he was an injury replacement). Heat have the highest team payroll this upcoming season and have no one to show for it. Justise Winslow has not progressed much the past three seasons. And the sad part is, Wade is probably their 2nd best player next season and he will be paid like the 9th best.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 03:15 PM
Honestly, not trying to be a hater, Miami has done nothing this offseason and so if I am a Heat fan, I would be ashamed with how this team is being managed. Sad that Wade will have to finish his career playing on a subpar team with Pat Riley not really doing much. Years ago, I said Whiteside is overrated because teams didn't care enough to gameplan for him. He's too raw and there was a Jeremy Lin type feel to his game where his game was eventually going to get exposed when teams cared enough to do so. Whiteside is overpaid and a baby. Tyler Johnson is overpaid 2x what he's worth. Dion Waiters, James Johnson... why are they getting paid over $26 million combined? Heat had zero All-Stars last season (Goran didn't count since he was an injury replacement). Heat have the highest team payroll this upcoming season and have no one to show for it. Justise Winslow has not progressed much the past three seasons. And the sad part is, Wade is probably their 2nd best player next season and he will be paid like the 9th best.

You're probably looking at a site that is still considering Bosh as part of the payroll. Nowhere close.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 03:20 PM
You're probably looking at a site that is still considering Bosh as part of the payroll. Nowhere close.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

Pretty sure $147 million for a team that is barely a top 20 team is not a good use of money.

More-Than-Most
07-05-2018, 03:20 PM
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/kyle-kuzma-fuels-dwyane-wade-to-lakers-rumors-with-sincedeleted-tweet-520488.html


Wade is going to be remembered as lebrons luggage at this rate.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 03:21 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/

Pretty sure $147 million for a team that is barely a top 20 team is not a good use of money.

That includes Bosh. Miami is a little under $118 without him.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 03:22 PM
That includes Bosh. Miami is a little under $118 without him.

Do you know what payroll means? Bosh is still getting paid, period. Heat are spending $147 million next season and have nothing to show for it.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 03:29 PM
Do you know what payroll means? Bosh is still getting paid, period. Heat are spending $147 million next season and have nothing to show for it.

No I think you missed the concept of how a medical retirement works.


The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association, or by a Fitness to Play panel (see question number 62). The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary immediately.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

His contract is paid by insurance.

_Supreme_
07-05-2018, 03:35 PM
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/kyle-kuzma-fuels-dwyane-wade-to-lakers-rumors-with-sincedeleted-tweet-520488.html


Wade is going to be remembered as lebrons luggage at this rate.

PSD should be ashamed of itself for putting garbage like that on their front page.

Am I supposed to believe Wade will piss off his entire fanbase so close to retirement for one meaningless year in Los Angeles because freaking Kyle Kuzma dent some vague tweet?

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 03:35 PM
No I think you missed the concept of how a medical retirement works.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

His contract is paid by insurance.

According to calculations from former NBA executive Bobby Marks, who now works for Yahoo, and NBA salary-cap expert Albert Nahmad, of the HeatHoops blog, the Heat are position to recoup through insurance $41 million of the remaining $76 million on Bosh's contract.

Your team has one of the highest payrolls (correction) and still suck. You guys have nothing going for you this season and your management has done a poor job at trying to be competitive to where they handed out contracts to anyone who could dribble a ball. If we take Bosh's complete salary out (you're still paying him so I can care less if it counts or not. It shows how desperate your organization was in resigning Bosh when he wasn't worth that $ anyways), you're still one of the highest and again, what is there to show for it when your team has zero All-Stars

beasted86
07-05-2018, 03:51 PM
According to calculations from former NBA executive Bobby Marks, who now works for Yahoo, and NBA salary-cap expert Albert Nahmad, of the HeatHoops blog, the Heat are position to recoup through insurance $41 million of the remaining $76 million on Bosh's contract.

Your team has one of the highest payrolls (correction) and still suck. You guys have nothing going for you this season and your management has done a poor job at trying to be competitive to where they handed out contracts to anyone who could dribble a ball. If we take Bosh's complete salary out (you're still paying him so I can care less if it counts or not. It shows how desperate your organization was in resigning Bosh when he wasn't worth that $ anyways), you're still one of the highest and again, what is there to show for it when your team has zero All-Stars
What does all-stars have to do with anything? I could care less about that. Its sad that you're still so salty at the HEAT for 2012, LOL.

Anyway, what matters is does a team get to the playoffs and do they have any shot at the Finals and most importantly winning a championship.

GSW pretty much has the championship locked, so that's a no-go for 29 teams. Miami has maybe a 0.1% chance of making the Finals, but I feel has like a 80% chance of still making the playoffs. So if you want to knock them for those chances that's a different story. Off-season isn't over and they can shed salaries, while still being below other East teams like Washington, Toronto, and Detroit.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 03:58 PM
What does all-stars have to do with anything? I could care less about that. Its sad that you're still so salty at the HEAT for 2012, LOL.

Anyway, what matters is does a team get to the playoffs and do they have any shot at the Finals and most importantly winning a championship.

GSW pretty much has the championship locked, so that's a no-go for 29 teams. Miami has maybe a 0.1% chance of making the Finals, but I feel has like a 80% chance of still making the playoffs. So if you want to knock them for those chances that's a different story. Off-season isn't over and they can shed salaries, while still being below other East teams like Washington, Toronto, and Detroit.

So because of a loss five years ago, I can't speak objectively about the Heat because I am still salty? I never want to hear you talk about the Mavericks again in that case.

Your team is doodoo. Sorry, it's the truth. You have no young assets and no one cares to trade with you guys and your overpaid players. Dragic is the only decent contract out there but he's not a gamechanger on a team so there is no point in giving him guard duties. Your highest paid player gets benched because the coach doesn't trust him. Which part of what I said was wrong? Oh, I must be salty because of five years ago.. lol, get real. All-Stars have a lot to do with it. You're in the weak East where DeRozan is an instant All-Star starter and have one of the highest paid teams but can't even get one All-Star.. That's embarrassing efforts by your management.

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 04:12 PM
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/kyle-kuzma-fuels-dwyane-wade-to-lakers-rumors-with-sincedeleted-tweet-520488.html


Wade is going to be remembered as lebrons luggage at this rate.

Hell be remembered as a player better than anyone you ever watched in a Sixers Jersey.

More-Than-Most
07-05-2018, 04:23 PM
Hell be remembered as a player better than anyone you ever watched in a Sixers Jersey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8


i watch wilt all the time though. Erving/Wilt-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Wade

_Supreme_
07-05-2018, 04:25 PM
Your team is doodoo.

This is so funny because in-conference I view Miami and the Thunder as similar. Exception obviously is that the Thunder does have All Stars but the results are the same: a first round playoff loss while both teams should be able to do better.

About the lack of moves, sometimes the market simply isn't there. Boohoo. It's not like we are going to contend right now anyway so if the assets can not miraculously be turned into impact players might as well keep the group of players together. I don't need my GM to make moves just for the sake of it without actually improving the team like so many other GMs do. That is fooling the fans.

Btw it isn't as doodoo as you make it out to be either. There was only one decisive game loss vs the 76ers. The rest of those games were lost because of lack of killer instinct mainly, despite the superior talent Philadelphia's roster has. Couldn't close out games. The thinking is Miami can still grow as a team so that is another reason to not make a lot of moves. They will get Waiters back and will try to "fix" Whiteside. We'll see if it happens or not.

Also not sure if any teams that finished behind Miami last season gained any ground and Cleveland should drop out of the playoff picture.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 04:35 PM
So because of a loss five years ago, I can't speak objectively about the Heat because I am still salty? I never want to hear you talk about the Mavericks again in that case.

Your team is doodoo. Sorry, it's the truth. You have no young assets and no one cares to trade with you guys and your overpaid players. Dragic is the only decent contract out there but he's not a gamechanger on a team so there is no point in giving him guard duties. Your highest paid player gets benched because the coach doesn't trust him. Which part of what I said was wrong? Oh, I must be salty because of five years ago.. lol, get real. All-Stars have a lot to do with it. You're in the weak East where DeRozan is an instant All-Star starter and have one of the highest paid teams but can't even get one All-Star.. That's embarrassing efforts by your management.

Yeah you're obsessive about posting negatively about the HEAT.

So by your logic I'd rather have the Hornets roster since Kemba is an all-star? I'd also rather have the Cavs right now with Love? Knicks with Porzingis? You're such a bozo clown 🤡 with no logic, ROFL.

_Supreme_
07-05-2018, 04:39 PM
Dragic was an All Star wasn't he, so we did have one last season.

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 04:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvdsi6gLl8


i watch wilt all the time though. Erving/Wilt-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Wade

You were alive whenever wilt played? How many rings did he win you all? Erving isn’t better than Wade.

WaDe03
07-05-2018, 04:41 PM
Let Miami suck for a little, it sucks wade is ending it with a garbage supporting cast but it is what it is. The Heat have more championships in the last 12 years than majority of the franchises in NBA history.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 04:55 PM
Yeah you're obsessive about posting negatively about the HEAT.

So by your logic I'd rather have the Hornets roster since Kemba is an all-star? I'd also rather have the Cavs right now with Love? Knicks with Porzingis? You're such a bozo clown 🤡 with no logic, ROFL.

No, dummy. I said your team is one of the highest paid and is managed by Pat Riley - who was regarded as a top recruiter in the league and yet, your team has no one to show for it. Not even a player who is All-Star caliber. How are you upset by what I am saying? Your team has been poorly managed throughout the years, period. Logic? You make no sense. You're a 30+ year old typing about bozo the clown on a forum site. Don't come at me with logic again. I'm obsessed about posting negatively about the Heat? So I'm supposed to say they did a great job signing Tyler Johnson and Hassan Whiteside? Get real, shmuck. The only clown is you except clowns are funny. You're just a joke.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 04:55 PM
Dragic was an All Star wasn't he, so we did have one last season.

He got the injury All-Star spot because like 3-4 All-Stars were injured. East had no one else good to give it to so Dragic was next in line.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 04:57 PM
Can't wait for beasted86 to reply with: "Haha you are still mad about the Finals five years ago." It's like some people are hardwired to be stupid. I hope it's not genetic. Actually, I do. We need more idiots to spawn more idiots so the smart people can continue profiting off them.

Chronz
07-05-2018, 05:00 PM
Can't wait for beasted86 to reply with: "Haha you are still mad about the Finals five years ago." It's like some people are hardwired to be stupid. I hope it's not genetic. Actually, I do. We need more idiots to spawn more idiots so the smart people can continue profiting off them.

You're not smart for profiteering, you're sadistic. This world was made for the wicked. Do you get off seeing homeless?

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 05:04 PM
You're not smart for profiteering, you're sadistic. This world was made for the wicked. Do you get off seeing homeless?

Thanks Bernie Sanders. I'll take that into consideration for 2020.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 05:19 PM
Can't wait for beasted86 to reply with: "Haha you are still mad about the Finals five years ago." It's like some people are hardwired to be stupid. I hope it's not genetic. Actually, I do. We need more idiots to spawn more idiots so the smart people can continue profiting off them.

Aww... look at him. He thinks his opinions from a random internet nobody affect me. LMAO. :laugh: You're seriously upset which is a problem that typed words from a stranger bother you this much. Really seems psychotic.

For the betterment of society I'm going to just end this here. So don't worry about stealing your grandpa's pistols to do something to yourself or others.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 05:26 PM
Aww... look at him. He thinks his opinions from a random internet nobody affect me. LMAO. :laugh: You're seriously upset which is a problem that typed words from a stranger bother you this much. Really seems psychotic.

For the betterment of society I'm going to just end this here. So don't worry about stealing your grandpa's pistols to do something to yourself or others.

You're the one who began with the personal attacks calling me bozo the clown after my posts were 100% basketball-related. If you can't handle any objectivity about your team, stick to the Miami Heat subthread. I see no reason for you to be here if all you want me to do is praise your team.

beasted86
07-05-2018, 05:41 PM
Okay clown, Lol 😆

_Supreme_
07-05-2018, 06:09 PM
He got the injury All-Star spot because like 3-4 All-Stars were injured. East had no one else good to give it to so Dragic was next in line.

That happens every year. All Star is All Star.

Not that I particularly care about whether someone is or isn't.

FlashBolt
07-05-2018, 06:14 PM
That happens every year. All Star is All Star.

Not that I particularly care about whether someone is or isn't.

It was a "no one else is good enough. You're next in line." East was weak as hell so it's not like him even making it out of pity was spectacular. I mean, they were saying Ben Simmons got robbed of the All-star spot by Dragic. The new All Star format should be revamped this upcoming season or else we will see players who aren't even top 40 make the all star game in the east.

Alayla
07-05-2018, 07:44 PM
He got the injury All-Star spot because like 3-4 All-Stars were injured. East had no one else good to give it to so Dragic was next in line.

Simmons and it was a very ugly snub

Chronz
07-05-2018, 08:22 PM
K

TylerSL
07-05-2018, 11:18 PM
I do not believe that Miami should make wholesale changes to their philosophy or how they go about their business, but they do need a tweak to their mindset. Miami has gotten to this situation through a multitude of factors, many of which wasn't even in their control. To start, Lebron leaving was obviously a huge setback for the franchise back in 2014. In 2015, Bosh's blood clots literally could not have come at a worse time considering we just gave two first rounders (one unprotected) to acquire Goran Dragic. Miami was a really good team in 15-16 even without Bosh and came within one win of the conference finals.

To this day I do not believe the team was in the wrong during the Dwyane Wade negotiations of 2016 (Miami renounced Wade to try to sign Durant and offered him all of their remaining cap, $6 million less than the Chicago offer). I don't even think the team was wrong to give Whiteside his contract considering his upside at the time. We can use hindsight to criticize the decision, but I do not believe that is where they made their mistake. The first critical mistake the team made was the decision to match Tyler Johnson's offer sheet. TJ is a good, and underrated, player. He is also worth the 4 year $50 million he signed, $12.5 million on average, but the poison pill provision made his contract literally toxic. While losing TJ to Brooklyn would have hurt the team, Miami wouldn't be competing for a championship by keeping him either. It should have been obvious that his contract would cripple our long term cap flexibility and make him an immovable contract. We should have let him walk, but not even that was the biggest mistake the team made.

After watching Wade walk and making huge commitments to Whiteside and TJ in the summer of 2016, Miami settled for a makeshift roster in 16-17. After being terrible in the first half of the season, 11-30, Miami went a 30-11 run in the second half to finish 41-41. As stunning and amazing as that second half of the season was, the Heat should not have mortgaged their future flexibility to keep that team intact. Miami probably got Dion Waiters and James Johnson on cheaper deals than they would have received on the open market, but adding their new contracts to those of Whiteside, Dragic, and Tyler Johnson destroyed what any flexibility we could have had.

Miami isn't in this mess because of how they operate, but they have been too loyal and that needs to change moving forward. We are in an era where player loyalty is at an all time low, not that that is a bad thing, but teams need to protect themselves. Miami has done a bad job of that the last several years and they are paying the price for it. There is nothing we can do to make the roster a championship contender in the next several years, we just have to sort of let these contracts expire.

If Winslow can develop a shot, Richardson takes another leap forward, Adebayo continues to improve, and Whiteside comes back motivated then we could be a good team next season. Not even all of that has to happen for us to get to the playoffs. Ultimately, Miami isn't in an ideal situation because they have no cap flexibility for two more seasons and so few future picks, but all isn't lost. We can still be a good (playoff) team for the next two years and then look to strike big in the summer of 2020. If the team cannot land top free agents in 2020, we should consider either 1 year deals and get back in the market in 2021 or a rebuild. But those are decisions for the future, today we just have to ride this out. We won't be winning titles, but we will be good enough to be in the playoffs and keep the fan base happy. I expect the team to look much different in 2020 than it does now, we just need to be a little more reserved in the future.

More-Than-Most
07-06-2018, 12:03 AM
Let Miami suck for a little, it sucks wade is ending it with a garbage supporting cast but it is what it is. The Heat have more championships in the last 12 years than majority of the franchises in NBA history.

Thanks to lebron of course. Heat would have 1 with wade

ewing
07-06-2018, 09:02 AM
I do not believe that Miami should make wholesale changes to their philosophy or how they go about their business, but they do need a tweak to their mindset. Miami has gotten to this situation through a multitude of factors, many of which wasn't even in their control. To start, Lebron leaving was obviously a huge setback for the franchise back in 2014. In 2015, Bosh's blood clots literally could not have come at a worse time considering we just gave two first rounders (one unprotected) to acquire Goran Dragic. Miami was a really good team in 15-16 even without Bosh and came within one win of the conference finals.

To this day I do not believe the team was in the wrong during the Dwyane Wade negotiations of 2016 (Miami renounced Wade to try to sign Durant and offered him all of their remaining cap, $6 million less than the Chicago offer). I don't even think the team was wrong to give Whiteside his contract considering his upside at the time. We can use hindsight to criticize the decision, but I do not believe that is where they made their mistake. The first critical mistake the team made was the decision to match Tyler Johnson's offer sheet. TJ is a good, and underrated, player. He is also worth the 4 year $50 million he signed, $12.5 million on average, but the poison pill provision made his contract literally toxic. While losing TJ to Brooklyn would have hurt the team, Miami wouldn't be competing for a championship by keeping him either. It should have been obvious that his contract would cripple our long term cap flexibility and make him an immovable contract. We should have let him walk, but not even that was the biggest mistake the team made.

After watching Wade walk and making huge commitments to Whiteside and TJ in the summer of 2016, Miami settled for a makeshift roster in 16-17. After being terrible in the first half of the season, 11-30, Miami went a 30-11 run in the second half to finish 41-41. As stunning and amazing as that second half of the season was, the Heat should not have mortgaged their future flexibility to keep that team intact. Miami probably got Dion Waiters and James Johnson on cheaper deals than they would have received on the open market, but adding their new contracts to those of Whiteside, Dragic, and Tyler Johnson destroyed what any flexibility we could have had.

Miami isn't in this mess because of how they operate, but they have been too loyal and that needs to change moving forward. We are in an era where player loyalty is at an all time low, not that that is a bad thing, but teams need to protect themselves. Miami has done a bad job of that the last several years and they are paying the price for it. There is nothing we can do to make the roster a championship contender in the next several years, we just have to sort of let these contracts expire.

If Winslow can develop a shot, Richardson takes another leap forward, Adebayo continues to improve, and Whiteside comes back motivated then we could be a good team next season. Not even all of that has to happen for us to get to the playoffs. Ultimately, Miami isn't in an ideal situation because they have no cap flexibility for two more seasons and so few future picks, but all isn't lost. We can still be a good (playoff) team for the next two years and then look to strike big in the summer of 2020. If the team cannot land top free agents in 2020, we should consider either 1 year deals and get back in the market in 2021 or a rebuild. But those are decisions for the future, today we just have to ride this out. We won't be winning titles, but we will be good enough to be in the playoffs and keep the fan base happy. I expect the team to look much different in 2020 than it does now, we just need to be a little more reserved in the future.

Good post. The Heat had some really bad luck with LeBron and Bosh. They also bet on Whitesise and Winslow. I don’t think it was unreasonable pay Whiteside or project Winslow as an impact player. Yes they have a couple bad contracts but over all I think they have been well managed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WaDe03
07-06-2018, 09:17 AM
Thanks to lebron of course. Heat would have 1 with wade

LeBron doesn’t come without Wade and Wade taught him how to win after he tucked his tail against the Mavs. Still more than the Sixers have had in your lifetime if you just want to count 1.

RowBTrice
07-06-2018, 09:25 AM
LeBron doesn’t come without Wade and Wade taught him how to win after he tucked his tail against the Mavs. Still more than the Sixers have had in your lifetime if you just want to count 1.

LOL omg....HAHAHAHAHA. Delirious.

RowBTrice
07-06-2018, 09:28 AM
LeBron doesn’t come without Wade and Wade taught him how to win after he tucked his tail against the Mavs. Still more than the Sixers have had in your lifetime if you just want to count 1.

I mean, c'mon....bron could have gone to minimum 6 different teams that year and still won 2 ships in 4 years with any of those teams. Saying Wade is some all time great just because he was good friends with bron is silly.

WaDe03
07-06-2018, 09:40 AM
I mean, c'mon....bron could have gone to minimum 6 different teams that year and still won 2 ships in 4 years with any of those teams. Saying Wade is some all time great just because he was good friends with bron is silly.

Huh? Wade is an all time great because of everything he’s accomplished. He’s too 15 imo, top 20 in most, and you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that knows anything about the game having him outside the top 25. That screams all time great to me.

FlashBolt
07-06-2018, 02:27 PM
LeBron doesn’t come without Wade and Wade taught him how to win after he tucked his tail against the Mavs. Still more than the Sixers have had in your lifetime if you just want to count 1.

Wade also tucked his tail vs Mavs. He could have played better as well. And Bosh didn't exactly play great either. Fault could be put on all players. Yes, Miami wins if LeBron didn't just stand there looking scared to dribble the ball but why couldn't Wade take over the game?

Chronz
07-06-2018, 02:31 PM
LeBron doesn’t come without Wade and Wade taught him how to win after he tucked his tail against the Mavs. Still more than the Sixers have had in your lifetime if you just want to count 1.

Bron, do more. We'll win.

Just like when shaq taught wade when he couldn't carry

Chronz
07-06-2018, 02:33 PM
Wade also tucked his tail vs Mavs. He could have played better as well. And Bosh didn't exactly play great either. Fault could be put on all players. Yes, Miami wins if LeBron didn't just stand there looking scared to dribble the ball but why couldn't Wade take over the game?

He got hurt

WaDe03
07-06-2018, 02:34 PM
Wade also tucked his tail vs Mavs. He could have played better as well. And Bosh didn't exactly play great either. Fault could be put on all players. Yes, Miami wins if LeBron didn't just stand there looking scared to dribble the ball but why couldn't Wade take over the game?

Wade was taking over games, check the numbers. He was the best player in that series by a prettt good margin. LeBron was solid until the 4th where he would completely meltdown and was making dumb decisions with the ball to the point Wade went off on him on live tv going back to the huddle.

FlashBolt
07-06-2018, 02:44 PM
Wade was taking over games, check the numbers. He was the best player in that series by a prettt good margin. LeBron was solid until the 4th where he would completely meltdown and was making dumb decisions with the ball to the point Wade went off on him on live tv going back to the huddle.

Wade averaged 27/7/5 on 55% shooting. Great numbers but if he saw LeBron wasn't playing well or refused to play, how do you say, "he taught LeBron how to win" when he didn't take over the game or get LeBron to snap out of whatever he was going through? The best thing Wade did was let LeBron take over the team and become a robin to his batman but if you're going to give credit to Wade for teaching LeBron how to win, you also gotta penalize Wade for not doing so in 2011 because by all accounts. it didn't look like Wade did that.

WaDe03
07-06-2018, 02:52 PM
Wade averaged 27/7/5 on 55% shooting. Great numbers but if he saw LeBron wasn't playing well or refused to play, how do you say, "he taught LeBron how to win" when he didn't take over the game or get LeBron to snap out of whatever he was going through? The best thing Wade did was let LeBron take over the team and become a robin to his batman but if you're going to give credit to Wade for teaching LeBron how to win, you also gotta penalize Wade for not doing so in 2011 because by all accounts. it didn't look like Wade did that.

He can only do so much and LeBron was getting a lot of possessions and screwing them, you can go every single play with Wade attacking over the course of a game or he’ll be dead by the time the 4th came around.

In the end, we can go back and forth about this all day but MTM and Rowbtrice initial posts were dumb as **** as usual.

FlashBolt
07-06-2018, 03:08 PM
He can only do so much and LeBron was getting a lot of possessions and screwing them, you can go every single play with Wade attacking over the course of a game or he’ll be dead by the time the 4th came around.

In the end, we can go back and forth about this all day but MTM and Rowbtrice initial posts were dumb as **** as usual.

Isn't that Wade's fault as well? Like, what do you think Wade "teaching" LeBron was composed of? I don't think he really taught LeBron how to win. I think he just sucked his ego up as a superstar player and told LeBron that the team goes as far as LeBron takes them. Wade could have done more, though considering he was very efficient. It seems like there was a miscommunication on both sides on who should lead the team and it took Wade to clarify that for everyone. I'm just saying.. if we give credit to Wade for teaching LeBron how to win, we gotta ask ourselves what Wade didn't do in 2011 to teach LeBron how to win because they definitely could have all done more.

ewing
07-07-2018, 11:57 AM
When did LeBron learn how to win? His record in finals sucks


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Vee-Rex
07-07-2018, 12:36 PM
When did LeBron learn how to win? His record in finals sucks


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Anyone's record would suck facing that Warriors team. LeBron is the ONLY one to have defeated them in a 7-game series in the last 4 years.

Besides, LeBron has 3 rings. A lot of all-time greats have 0. Put your hate aside - he knows how to win.

ewing
07-07-2018, 01:01 PM
Anyone's record would suck facing that Warriors team. LeBron is the ONLY one to have defeated them in a 7-game series in the last 4 years.

Besides, LeBron has 3 rings. A lot of all-time greats have 0. Put your hate aside - he knows how to win.

He has losing record with out those series and His team was favored to win every year he was on the Heat. LeBron is not a great winner. Truth


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FlashBolt
07-07-2018, 01:26 PM
Anyone's record would suck facing that Warriors team. LeBron is the ONLY one to have defeated them in a 7-game series in the last 4 years.

Besides, LeBron has 3 rings. A lot of all-time greats have 0. Put your hate aside - he knows how to win.

Warning: You are wasting your time with a troll.

Vee-Rex
07-07-2018, 02:02 PM
He has losing record with out those series and His team was favored to win every year he was on the Heat. LeBron is not a great winner. Truth


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I'm pretty sure the Spurs were the favorites in 2014.

Only championship LeBron lost in which he was the favorite was 2011. I'll have to double check when I'm not on my phone.

Edit: I JUST noticed that you conveniently moved the goal posts on your assertion. At first he didn't know how to win, NOW he isn't a great winner. :laugh2:

ewing
07-07-2018, 02:10 PM
I'm pretty sure the Spurs were the favorites in 2014.

Only championship LeBron lost in which he was the favorite was 2011. I'll have to double check when I'm not on my phone.

Edit: I JUST noticed that you conveniently moved the goal posts on your assertion. At first he didn't know how to win, NOW he isn't a great winner. :laugh2:

His team entered the season as the favorite to take the title every year he was on the Heat. He said he was going to lead a destiny and then turned tail and ran when his team got beat down just like this year. The guy stacked the deck in his favor and still has a losing record. He is a loser


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FlashBolt
07-07-2018, 02:33 PM
I'm pretty sure the Spurs were the favorites in 2014.

Only championship LeBron lost in which he was the favorite was 2011. I'll have to double check when I'm not on my phone.

Edit: I JUST noticed that you conveniently moved the goal posts on your assertion. At first he didn't know how to win, NOW he isn't a great winner. :laugh2:

He is just upset Ewing has zero rings and Knicks best move the past two decades was signing KP.

ewing
07-07-2018, 03:59 PM
He is just upset Ewing has zero rings and Knicks best move the past two decades was signing KP.

Im not debating who taught Ewing to be some great winner.


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