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Jeffy25
06-26-2018, 12:42 PM
Our current draft

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19. Tiny Archibald - Royals/Kings - 1970
20. Larry Nance - Suns - 1981
21. Michael Finley - Suns - 1995
22. Norm Nixon - Lakers - 1977
23. Alex English - Bucks - 1976
24. Sam Cassell - Rockets - 1993
25. Mark Price - Mavs (traded to Cavs) - 1986
26. Vlade Divac - Lakers - 1989
27. Dennis Rodman - Pistons - 1986
28. Tony Parker - Spurs - 2001
29. Dennis Johnson - Sonics - 1976
30. Jimmy Butler - Bulls - 2011

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/draft_finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=&year_max=&round_min=&round_max=&pick_overall_min=18&pick_overall_max=18&franch_id=&college_id=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&is_active=&is_hof=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=ws

some notable picks

Mark Jackson
Joe Dumars
David West
Calvin Murphy
Ricky Pierce
Vern Fleming
James Posey
Theo Ratliff
J.R. Smith
B.J. Armstrong
Ty Lawson
Quentin Richardson
Marco Belinelli
Jason Collins
JaVale McGee
Gerald Green

Jeffy25
06-26-2018, 12:45 PM
Those first four all have good arguments I think

Mark Jackson, Joe Dumars, David West, and Calvin Murphy (toss Pierce in I guess) and J.R. Smith and Eric Bledsoe have carved out nice careers as well.

YAALREADYKNO
06-26-2018, 12:47 PM
Dumars

Rivera
06-26-2018, 12:52 PM
i really think this is a 2 person debate between Dumars and Murphy. Murphy had the better peak but didnt rack up the all star nods that Dumars did. Dumars also has a Finals MVP to his name that carries weight.

Gonna go with Dumars on this one

Jeffy25
06-26-2018, 01:52 PM
I haven't been doing this so far, but I'll put those 5 guys I mentioned in a comp

Mark Jackson - 91.8 WS - .113 WS/48 - .477/.332/.770, .522 TS% - 39,121 minutes - 16.0 PER - 9.6/3.8/8.0 career
0 rings, 1 finals appearance, 3776 playoff minutes - 9.0/3.6/6.9 per game
1 All-Star selection
Rookie of the Year
4th all time in total assists

Joe Dumars - 86.2 Win Shares - .118 WS/48 - .460/.382/.843, .554 TS% - 35,139 minutes - 14.4 PER - 16.1/2.2/4.5
2 rings, 6 all-star selections, Finals MVP, all Rookie first team, all defensive first team 4 times (second team once) all NBA 2nd team once, all NBA 3rd team twice.
Hall of Fame

David West - 85.9 WS - .141 WS/48 - .495/.265/.817, .544 TS% - 29,144 minutes - 18.6 PER - 13.6/6.4/2.2
2 rings, 2 all-star selections

Calvin Murphy - 84.1 WS - .132 WS/48 - .482/.139/.892 - .536 TS% - 30,607 minutes - 18.0 PER - 17.9/2.1/4.4
Rookie of the Year, 1 all-star selection
Hall of Fame

I'm not going to bother posting Ricky

Dumars had the best reputation, and the Finals MVP might push him over the top here. I want to vote for Jackson because I love a point guard like him. But Dumars was really important to those Pistons chips. West was the most efficient of the group, but his impact was far less than Jackson and Dumars and even Murphy.

I'm leaning toward Dumars at the moment.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 02:01 PM
Not even a debate.. It's Dumars.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 02:03 PM
Jackson/Dumars for sure. I am leaning Jackson however. Dumars was an excellent player, but peel him away from those loaded Pistons rosters, what was he? His defensive reputation was also a bit overrated.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 02:05 PM
Jackson/Dumars for sure. I am leaning Jackson however. Dumars was an excellent player, but peel him away from those loaded Pistons rosters, what was he? His defensive reputation was also a bit overrated.

He destroyed the Lakers in the Finals. He's every bit as good as his reputation.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 02:51 PM
He destroyed the Lakers in the Finals. He's every bit as good as his reputation.

that was one year. Dumars was an good defender, but nothing lock down individually like his rep suggests. He was also fairly limited offensively throughout his career.

valade16
06-26-2018, 02:56 PM
that was one year. Dumars was an good defender, but nothing lock down individually like his rep suggests. He was also fairly limited offensively throughout his career.

He definitely benefitted from IT's ability to create for himself and others, although Dumars' shooting was ahead of his time. I think he'd look better statistically if he played in a more modern era.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 03:08 PM
He definitely benefitted from IT's ability to create for himself and others, although Dumars' shooting was ahead of his time. I think he'd look better statistically if he played in a more modern era.

He also benefited from the rules, and what was behind him though (the Pistons liked to pass of guards to the battering bigs behind them). I do agree, he was already a good spot up shooter, with decent high post skills, he likely would have been a little better in the spacing era.

I chose Jackson, because he just had a natural ability to get guys the ball at the right time/spot, he was very savvy, consistent, smart, and played a few different styles at a good level. Plus I ****ing hated the Pistons and think they are all overrated..

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 03:12 PM
He also benefited from the rules, and what was behind him though (the Pistons liked to pass of guards to the battering bigs behind them). I do agree, he was already a good spot up shooter, with decent high post skills, he likely would have been a little better in the spacing era.

I chose Jackson, because he just had a natural ability to get guys the ball at the right time/spot, he was very savvy, consistent, smart, and played a few different styles at a good level. Plus I ****ing hated the Pistons and think they are all overrated..

You hate their style of play and I get that but it shouldn't deny the fact that Dumars was a better player, period.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 03:17 PM
You hate their style of play and I get that but it shouldn't deny the fact that Dumars was a better player, period.

I don't know if I agree though. I think his offensive limitations were completely covered up during those years, and his defensive reputation was overrated. Now, that doesn't mean he wasn't a good player.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 03:22 PM
I don't know if I agree though. I think his offensive limitations were completely covered up during those years, and his defensive reputation was overrated. Now, that doesn't mean he wasn't a good player.

Well, his reputation comes from Jordan also saying that Dumars played him better than any other player. The Pistons were stacked and their defense wasn't basketball defense but downright MMA style but Dumars did his part. And Mark wasn't exactly Steve Nash, you know? He was terrible offensively as well and couldn't get his own shot. Great passer but that was pretty much what he did that was at a high level.

Jeffy25
06-26-2018, 04:33 PM
I get Hawk's argument, but I'm going to go ahead and vote for Dumars.

Even though, I still highly covet a guy like Mark Jackson in any era.

ewing
06-26-2018, 05:07 PM
Jackson/Dumars for sure. I am leaning Jackson however. Dumars was an excellent player, but peel him away from those loaded Pistons rosters, what was he? His defensive reputation was also a bit overrated.

I think he is an all star regardless. Jeffy talk about him not being the most efficient. Its hard to be efficient when the team you play for turns the game into a bar fight every night. Joe was a very good offensive player on top of being a top defender. I wish I could say its Jackson, b/c I grew up watching him and he was great to watch but its Dumars unless its Murphy and I never saw Murphy play

ewing
06-26-2018, 05:11 PM
Lot of guys that were fun to watch on this list- Vern Fleming, Q, Ricky Pierce, James Posey.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 05:39 PM
Lot of guys that were fun to watch on this list- Vern Fleming, Q, Ricky Pierce, James Posey.

Pierce was awesome for a while.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2018, 05:40 PM
I think he is an all star regardless. Jeffy talk about him not being the most efficient. Its hard to be efficient when the team you play for turns the game into a bar fight every night. Joe was a very good offensive player on top of being a top defender. I wish I could say its Jackson, b/c I grew up watching him and he was great to watch but its Dumars unless its Murphy and I never saw Murphy play

I just don't think Dumars was as good as advertised for all that long. Where as Mark had a very consistent career.

I voted. I am not going to argue this to death, neither one is a franchise player.

jaydubb
06-27-2018, 10:33 AM
Joe dumars over Marky mark jackson

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ewing
06-28-2018, 09:37 PM
I just don't think Dumars was as good as advertised for all that long. Where as Mark had a very consistent career.

I voted. I am not going to argue this to death, neither one is a franchise player.

Mark was the man


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ewing
06-28-2018, 09:38 PM
Mark Jackson was my first love


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Heediot
06-30-2018, 07:07 PM
Lot of guys that were fun to watch on this list- Vern Fleming, Q, Ricky Pierce, James Posey.

A lot of these guys went to the pacers later in their careers. That's where I remember some of the names.

basch152
06-30-2018, 09:19 PM
i remember james posey well because one of the 2k games had a glitch where he pretty much never missed and one of my friends always abused it.

ewing
06-30-2018, 09:57 PM
i remember james posey well because one of the 2k games had a glitch where he pretty much never missed and one of my friends always abused it.

Posey was a beast defender. Honestly might have been the best defender on those Boston teams


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