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View Full Version : Charania: Magic, Bulls will match max offers on Gordon, LaVine



mrblisterdundee
06-13-2018, 11:58 PM
Shams Charania of Yahoo Sports recently said on Chris Mannix's podcast that the Magic would likely match maximum offers on restricted free agents Aaron Gordon and Zach LaVine:

I think both teams are aware that they need to go to max number for them. But the question will be are they going to make them go get a sheet? Are they going to match? They’re going to match. I think the sentiment I’ve gotten from both teams is “Listen, if Zach LaVine goes and gets a max, we have too much invested in him.” “If Aaron Gordon…” That’s kind of the template. That’s the range.
- Yahoo Sports, via Dan Feldman, NBC Sports (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/06/12/report-magic-aaron-gordon-and-bulls-zach-lavine-would-match-max-offer-sheets-for-restricted-free-agents/)

TrueFan420
06-14-2018, 12:17 AM
And this is why both teams will continue to struggle. Neither player is worth a max.

More-Than-Most
06-14-2018, 12:18 AM
Id Max Gordon but not levine... i get why the bulls must but **** that.

More-Than-Most
06-14-2018, 12:19 AM
And this is why both teams will continue to struggle. Neither player is worth a max.

agreed but you dont want to lose a 22 year old putting up 16/7/6 on great shooting... id let levine walk for a max though or trade him now.

TrueFan420
06-14-2018, 12:33 AM
agreed but you dont want to lose a 22 year old putting up 16/7/6 on great shooting... id let levine walk for a max though or trade him now.
Neither of them are doing that.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-14-2018, 12:35 AM
Magic are stupid if true. He's basically a worse Blake Griffin

^MTM, he's putting up inflated stats on a horrible team. Don't buy into his hype, his game is the opposite of what teams should be looking for in today's nba

mrblisterdundee
06-14-2018, 12:50 AM
Magic are stupid if true. He's basically a worse Blake Griffin

^MTM, he's putting up inflated stats on a horrible team. Don't buy into his hype, his game is the opposite of what teams should be looking for in today's nba

It's hard to tell whether Gordon is winning material unless he's put in a winning situation. Physically, he could become a lockdown defender who you can throw at Durant or LeBron. He's improved in scoring and rebounding most years. I'd like to see what he can do playing third fiddle next to a couple stars.

Scoots
06-14-2018, 01:03 AM
The downside of the max contract is that everybody thinks they "deserve" a max contract and it only takes one team to buy in.

Dade County
06-14-2018, 02:14 AM
Um...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmWP99NPN9g

Saddletramp
06-14-2018, 02:24 AM
Some of these guys are better off as assets to sell right before you can’t anymore (not sure if they’re Restricted this year or not-and I don’t care to look it up).

True fan is right. Give big money to meh guys and you’ll never compete.

mngopher35
06-14-2018, 02:44 AM
I wonder if the teams with cap will make this happen? Who can even do it given cap space, like Lakers/Philly/Dallas?

Saddletramp
06-14-2018, 03:12 AM
I wonder if the teams with cap will make this happen? Who can even do it given cap space, like Lakers/Philly/Dallas?

No way the Sixers go after one of them and I doubt the Lakers blow their load on one of them. Cuban might bite because, well, that’d be a Cuban thing to do.

Here’s a quick reference:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Ahriman
06-14-2018, 04:01 AM
Both teams could also say that to deter teams from making a max offer and try to sign them at a lower value

It does not mean they'd match a max though. I'd let other teams tie big money to these guys.

Although I think that LaVine will be much better than Wiggins in the long run. I wish Minny did trade Wiggins to Chicago instead...

Scoots
06-14-2018, 09:04 AM
I LaVine's recent injury history a concern? He's still young but he has definitely shown flashes of potentially being worth a max at some point in the future ... not now, but he could earn it later.

warfelg
06-14-2018, 09:13 AM
And this is why the nbas salary structure is broken. Neither guy should come close to the max, but both will get offered because is screws with the Magic/Bulls future cap.

TheDish87
06-14-2018, 09:21 AM
Id Max Gordon but not levine... i get why the bulls must but **** that.

other way around for me. neither is a max player but Lavine is better then Gordon and fits well with what the Bulls have. They dont have any serious money tied up anyway so it wont hurt. The Magic have gone nowhere fast, at least the Bulls youth showed some promise and if they hit on this draft they are in good shape

Scoots
06-14-2018, 09:53 AM
And this is why the nbas salary structure is broken. Neither guy should come close to the max, but both will get offered because is screws with the Magic/Bulls future cap.

I think it comes from the power of agents in the NBA of the past. The "max" contract was immediately a ploy agents used to get more money for lesser players, and once one GM/owner folded then every free agent could point at that first deal and say "I'm as good as that guy who got the max, so I deserve it too!". And here we are.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
It's hard to tell whether Gordon is winning material unless he's put in a winning situation. Physically, he could become a lockdown defender who you can throw at Durant or LeBron. He's improved in scoring and rebounding most years. I'd like to see what he can do playing third fiddle next to a couple stars.

I hear what your saying, but max contract? Geez Louis.

Guys basically a tweener with no consistent jump shot. Magic have been a disaster for a better part of he last decade since Dwight left and its because of stupid moves like this.

warfelg
06-14-2018, 10:08 AM
I think it comes from the power of agents in the NBA of the past. The "max" contract was immediately a ploy agents used to get more money for lesser players, and once one GM/owner folded then every free agent could point at that first deal and say "I'm as good as that guy who got the max, so I deserve it too!". And here we are.

Which is the broken part of the system. I know it’s collusion but GMs/Owners need to just be strong and let that guy sit there unsigned.

Scoots
06-14-2018, 11:32 AM
Which is the broken part of the system. I know it’s collusion but GMs/Owners need to just be strong and let that guy sit there unsigned.

There will always be some idiot who is jumping to over-pay.

Rivera
06-14-2018, 11:32 AM
AG has gotten better, his shot selection can be questionable, and too many times, he tries to act like a superstar vs putting in the work if that makes sense. not that he hasnt put in the work, his ball handling is better, his shooting has improved, his defense comes and goes but when he plays, he thinks hes better than he is; thats what i mean with he tries to act like a superstar vs putting in the work

if someone got a hold of Gordon, taught him how to play the right way and how to play winning basketball, he could thrive as a good piece on a great team and be valuable. With Orlando, there has been too much turnover and not enough alphas to put him in his place, no real locker room leader

IndyRealist
06-14-2018, 11:39 AM
I think the sentiment I’ve gotten from both teams is “Listen, if Zach LaVine goes and gets a max, we have too much invested in him.” “If Aaron Gordon…”

That's a classic sunk cost fallacy. What you've already invested is irrelevant. That time and money is gone. What matters is how much they will cost, and how much they will provide.

The Pacers did the same thing with Roy Hibbert. He's not even in the league now.

TrueFan420
06-14-2018, 11:47 AM
And this is why the nbas salary structure is broken. Neither guy should come close to the max, but both will get offered because is screws with the Magic/Bulls future cap.

Here's the thing tho, the magic and bulls need to call the other teams bluff. Yes they'll lose talent but those players will also hamper the teams foolish enough to give them a max making it easier for the bulls and magic to build their side properly. The GM really just needs to have the owners support and understanding.

FlashBolt
06-14-2018, 11:53 AM
Everyone is getting paid... even scrubs.

Giannis94
06-14-2018, 12:17 PM
I like! Means less $$ to be thrown at Jabari

mrblisterdundee
06-14-2018, 04:03 PM
other way around for me. neither is a max player but Lavine is better then Gordon and fits well with what the Bulls have. They dont have any serious money tied up anyway so it wont hurt. The Magic have gone nowhere fast, at least the Bulls youth showed some promise and if they hit on this draft they are in good shape

LaVine better than Gordon? He wasn't even better than Dunn, who has show just as much promise. Gordon and LaVine are inextricably linked because of that dunk duel, but Gordon has a more promising body. If he could get the right instruction on the defensive end, I could see him guarding all five positions. LaVine has nowhere near that level of versatility.


I hear what your saying, but max contract? Geez Louis.
Guys basically a tweener with no consistent jump shot. Magic have been a disaster for a better part of he last decade since Dwight left and its because of stupid moves like this.

He's only 22 and just improved his three-point shooting by 5 percent while taking twice as many. Imagine what he could do on a team where he's playing next to someone better than Fournier and Vucevic. Maybe it's a mistake for Orlando to max him, because all they know how to do is screw up. But in the right situation, I think he could be more than worth that contract. I see a little Shawn Marion potential in him.

Chronz
06-14-2018, 04:50 PM
Here's the thing tho, the magic and bulls need to call the other teams bluff. Yes they'll lose talent but those players will also hamper the teams foolish enough to give them a max making it easier for the bulls and magic to build their side properly. The GM really just needs to have the owners support and understanding.
I thought this way too except these contracts don't last long enough to truly cripple certain squads. Least not like before

mngopher35
06-14-2018, 05:05 PM
No way the Sixers go after one of them and I doubt the Lakers blow their load on one of them. Cuban might bite because, well, that’d be a Cuban thing to do.

Here’s a quick reference:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

I used hoopshype quick but not too far off from what I saw so must have been an ok guide. On this one Lakers/76ers/Bulls are the 3 clearly with cap space and Atlanta might still be around max after their 1st round pick still.

My basic point was there are limited teams with 25 mil to make these offers so it will be interesting to see how these RFA play out. Usually I think the assumption is they get paid but it could be a bit tougher for those guys this time around (I believe other have mentioned Parker in this group too).

Vinylman
06-14-2018, 06:03 PM
People are going to be surprised the next 2 years how poorly the RFA's do because no one has cap. Additionally, teams have gotten a lot smarter in the last couple of years and aren't extending these kind of players early...

it is easier to let them go RFA and match because it is one less guaranteed year...

like Chronz said... these deals are shorter now and a 4 year deal really isn't that long...

the overspending year will be the summer of 2020 when all those **** deals signed during the cap explosion year (2016 summer) begin expiring

Giannis94
06-14-2018, 08:16 PM
People are going to be surprised the next 2 years how poorly the RFA's do because no one has cap. Additionally, teams have gotten a lot smarter in the last couple of years and aren't extending these kind of players early...

it is easier to let them go RFA and match because it is one less guaranteed year...

like Chronz said... these deals are shorter now and a 4 year deal really isn't that long...

the overspending year will be the summer of 2020 when all those **** deals signed during the cap explosion year (2016 summer) begin expiring
4 years is hella long. Just ask Lakers fans.

Vinylman
06-15-2018, 08:54 AM
4 years is hella long. Just ask Lakers fans.

Apples and Oranges

It is for guys like Deng and Mozgov.... However, Gordon and Lavine are more than serviceable and even on 4 year deals could be moved pretty easily.

TheDish87
06-15-2018, 08:56 AM
LaVine better than Gordon? He wasn't even better than Dunn, who has show just as much promise. Gordon and LaVine are inextricably linked because of that dunk duel, but Gordon has a more promising body. If he could get the right instruction on the defensive end, I could see him guarding all five positions. LaVine has nowhere near that level of versatility.



He's only 22 and just improved his three-point shooting by 5 percent while taking twice as many. Imagine what he could do on a team where he's playing next to someone better than Fournier and Vucevic. Maybe it's a mistake for Orlando to max him, because all they know how to do is screw up. But in the right situation, I think he could be more than worth that contract. I see a little Shawn Marion potential in him.

are you judging Lavine in a season he came off a major injury? i hope not.

tp13baby
06-15-2018, 09:44 AM
Terrible move for both teams.

zn23
06-15-2018, 11:22 PM
You have the poor mans Derrick Rose and the poor mans Blake Griffin. Gordon is avg. at best. 4 years into the league is enough time to evaluate someone. He has marginally improved from last year. Unfortunately the Magic and the Bulls have no choice but to resign them. They have nothing else.

KG2TB
06-16-2018, 09:02 AM
You have the poor mans Derrick Rose and the poor mans Blake Griffin. Gordon is avg. at best. 4 years into the league is enough time to evaluate someone. He has marginally improved from last year. Unfortunately the Magic and the Bulls have no choice but to resign them. They have nothing else.

Poor mans derrick rose? LaVine?? Lmao...their games aren’t similar at all wtf are you talking about?

Anyways, LaVine was coming off a major injury and actually looked really good at times. He’s still super young and has loads of potential still. He should be better this season than he was last. He’s just too talented to let go for nothing considering the Bulls are undergoing a 2-4 year rebuild anyways. As others pointed out, he shouldn’t be too difficult to trade down the line.

But lose a young, talented, developing player for nothing during a rebuild? Not smart. What’s really dumb is the whole max contract thing. The NBA needs to do what it can to try to adopt a system as close as possible to the NFL.

JOSKOMANG4
06-18-2018, 02:20 PM
For the magic, Johnathon Isaac can slide into the 4-spot, while Jonathon Simmons can move to the 3. With such a deep draft class, the Magic could, IMO, trade down to gain additional picks.

TRADE: B.Biyombo, Dj Augustine, and 6th overall pick for D.Shroeder, 19th and 30th overall pick.

With the 19th overall pick, they could replace Augustine with homegrown talent A.Simons from IMG. With the 30th pick, they could replace Gordon with NCAA-Tourney darling Moritz Wagner, from Michigan.

L: Vucevic/Isaac/Simmons/Fournier/Shroeder
B: Wagner, Ross, Simons, Mack

You're going to see a team offering Gordon the max. Magic don't have to waste their money.

As for the Bulls, they luck out b/c, IMO, no1 will offer Lavine a max deal. I see, at most, a Jordan Clarkson-type deal; 4yr 50million, which I believe the Bulls should in fact match. With the 7th and 22nd overall pick in this draft, they could rebuild their roster to build upon Markannen, Lavine, and Dunn.

I can also see the Bulls working out a S&T to acquire hometown guy Jabari Parker from Milwaukee. Possibly a R.Lopez & 7th overall pick for Jabari Parker & 17th overall pick???

KG2TB
06-18-2018, 03:07 PM
No way I’m giving up the #7 for Jabari and a mid 1st.

Vinylman
06-18-2018, 07:01 PM
People are going to be surprised how few of these guys get max offers... it just isn't happening because the money isn't there....

kobe4thewinbang
06-18-2018, 10:38 PM
Always a toss-up, honestly. Unless you’re the Wizards matching that insane Otto Porter deal. I forget which player it was a few summers back whose team said “Oh, we’re gonna match it!” and then they didn’t, cuz it was not smart. Clearly a scare tactic, and basically a bluff. It knocks eager teams back and makes them think if it’s worth making the offer, as the original team has that time period to declare a match or let ‘em go.