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FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 08:35 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-durant-charges-ruined-nba-making-money-thats-164105770.html

How stupid is this guy?

ďI feel like itís easy to be the best player when you donít have good players around you. I feel like itís harder to stand out when you have great players around you,Ē Durant told Yahoo Sports. ďI pride myself on standing out wherever I am. I pride myself on working hard wherever I go. And I feel like these guys embraced me and I feel like Iím a Warrior.Ē

My God, this guy just makes things worse for himself. Constantly trying to validate his lame move to the Warriors. What a frickin baby. I can't defend this punk anymore. I can congratulate his win but he's a frickin idiot. From fake twitter accounts to trashing his old team, this guy is a huge joke.

flea
06-09-2018, 08:40 PM
Meh, no worse than any number of baffling things Lebron has said. Durant's a great player but clearly a priss.

CHANGO
06-09-2018, 08:43 PM
LMFAO... I said this one time and I'll say it again. KD to me looks like a really insecure kid. Since his comments after finishing 2nd behind Lebron in the MVP race I have thought the same. It's easier to "appear" great while being surrounded with scrubs, we have seen that already with guys like Love, etc... But if that's a shot at Lebron his logic is flawed and he's just looking for an excuse to not being "great" as everyone expected with the Warriors.

He should be scoring better in that team and those Finals. No question.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 08:48 PM
LMFAO... I said this one time and I'll say it again. KD to me looks like a really insecure kid. Since his comments after finishing 2nd behind Lebron in the MVP race I have thought the same. It's easier to "appear" great while being surrounded with scrubs, we have seen that already with guys like Love, etc... But if that's a shot at Lebron his logic is flawed and he's just looking for an excuse to not being "great" as everyone expected with the Warriors.

He should be scoring better in that team and those Finals. No question.

And it's funny because in OKC, he had very good players around him so he makes it seem as if he just got to a great team.. Impossible to like this dude. Warriors fans like him for the rings but even they have to see how much of a punk he is. I don't know if he took a shot at LeBron or not but I can bet he would never trade his spot to be in Cleveland carrying that load..

Vinylman
06-09-2018, 08:56 PM
please use the proper pronouns when discussing KD...

the options are

Her, hers she and so forth

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 08:58 PM
Just keep digging that hole, you arrogant, spoiled millennial.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-09-2018, 09:01 PM
All these "stars" feel a need to be primadonnas nowadays. Entitled babies and the worst of it all is it's like that in each major sport.

Scoots
06-09-2018, 09:11 PM
I don't really get it ... doesn't everyone know it's easier to be the best player on a bad team than being the best player on a great team? People complain about this group of people called "LeBron haters" who look for every opportunity even going to the lengths of making things up if needed just to point blame at LeBron. I guess KD has arrived at that level now.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:12 PM
I don't really get it ... doesn't everyone know it's easier to be the best player on a bad team than being the best player on a great team? People complain about this group of people called "LeBron haters" who look for every opportunity even going to the lengths of making things up if needed just to point blame at LeBron. I guess KD has arrived at that level now.

You're such a homer. I wouldn't expect you to understand. Move along, mod.

tredigs
06-09-2018, 09:13 PM
Just keep digging that hole, you arrogant, spoiled millennial.
You seem like the millennial. Taking bite quotes and making over-arching and spiteful takes on people you don't know because the theme of the take agrees with you. You are Trump's America; Where Twitter is King.

papipapsmanny
06-09-2018, 09:16 PM
What is illogical about that statement though? Would a skilled 8th grader not stand out, playing with a bunch of 5th graders?

That isn't a reference to anyone.... just displaying the logic of what he said

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:20 PM
What is illogical about that statement though? Would a skilled 8th grader not stand out, playing with a bunch of 5th graders?

That isn't a reference to anyone.... just displaying the logic of what he said

There is no logic that makes sense from his perspective that is seen as anything but a pathetic comment. And your analogy is incorrect. You stand out on your team but KD is basically creating an excuse as to why he may not be seen as the best player. He's turning himself into the victim again. "It's harder because I have to now compete against my own stacked teammates to stand out." That's essentially his logic.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:23 PM
Here is KD saying he doesn't want to be the leader.

ďSteph Curry is the face of the franchise, and that helps me out, because I donít have to,Ē he said. ďI donít want to have to be the leader. Iím not a leader. Iím bad at saying, ĎStand behind me and follow me.í No. Iím one of those guys thatís just like, ĎLetís do this **** together. Letís just work everybody together. I donít mind being on the front line with you, but letís come and do it together.í Thatís my way of leadership. Iím leading by example.Ē


https://uproxx.com/dimemag/kevin-durant-steph-curry-leader-golden-state-warriors/2/


And compare that statement with the one I posted in the first post. That's not in any way contradictory of what he said? Dude is just trying to be the victim to validate his move to the Warriors. He won the ring, just shut up at this point.

ďI feel like itís easy to be the best player when you donít have good players around you. I feel like itís harder to stand out when you have great players around you,Ē Durant told Yahoo Sports. ďI pride myself on standing out wherever I am. I pride myself on working hard wherever I go. And I feel like these guys embraced me and I feel like Iím a Warrior.Ē

Scoots
06-09-2018, 09:23 PM
What is illogical about that statement though? Would a skilled 8th grader not stand out, playing with a bunch of 5th graders?

That isn't a reference to anyone.... just displaying the logic of what he said

Flash is blinded by his hate. He knows that good players look great surrounded by scrubs. He's just trolling.

tredigs
06-09-2018, 09:28 PM
Here is KD saying he doesn't want to be the leader.

ďSteph Curry is the face of the franchise, and that helps me out, because I donít have to,Ē he said. ďI donít want to have to be the leader. Iím not a leader. Iím bad at saying, ĎStand behind me and follow me.í No. Iím one of those guys thatís just like, ĎLetís do this **** together. Letís just work everybody together. I donít mind being on the front line with you, but letís come and do it together.í Thatís my way of leadership. Iím leading by example.Ē


https://uproxx.com/dimemag/kevin-durant-steph-curry-leader-golden-state-warriors/2/


And compare that statement with the one I posted in the first post. That's not in any way contradictory of what he said? Dude is just trying to be the victim to validate his move to the Warriors. He won the ring, just shut up at this point.

ďI feel like itís easy to be the best player when you donít have good players around you. I feel like itís harder to stand out when you have great players around you,Ē Durant told Yahoo Sports. ďI pride myself on standing out wherever I am. I pride myself on working hard wherever I go. And I feel like these guys embraced me and I feel like Iím a Warrior.Ē

His only fault is buying into the hype that everyone has bestowed him. The list of players who don't succomb to this is 100X smaller than the list of players that do.

Ultimately, you're hurt and searching for reasons to hate. We get it.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:32 PM
His only fault is buying into the hype that everyone has bestowed him. The list of players who don't succomb to this is 100X smaller than the list of players that do.

Ultimately, you're hurt and searching for reasons to hate. We get it.

Yes. 29 other NBA fans of other teams are hating on KD because he left OKC. Can't possibly be that they dislike KD because he's a total pansy. But you can keep using that same sentence for the millionth time. I'm sure you'll convince someone eventually.

tredigs
06-09-2018, 09:32 PM
I will say this, he needs to start showing a particular appreciation for Curry if he does not want to ruffle feathers. And I am waiting for those quotes.

cmellofan15
06-09-2018, 09:34 PM
Kd's a ***** we get it...still getting them rings tho lmao

tredigs
06-09-2018, 09:35 PM
Yes. 29 other NBA fans of other teams are hating on KD because he left OKC. Can't possibly be that they dislike KD because he's a total pansy. But you can keep using that same sentence for the millionth time. I'm sure you'll convince someone eventually.
Lol no, I very much understand that all other teams feel that pain. Sucks. As a Warriors fan, I know how much it sucks to be the one getting **** on for decades. As a young OKC fan, you don't understand **** about that. Don't worry, you'll get there kid.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:36 PM
I will say this, he needs to start showing a particular appreciation for Curry if he does not want to ruffle feathers. And I am waiting for those quotes.

No one cares about Curry. Curry should be on the floors thanking KD for coming to the Warriors because LeBron was about to smack Curry's booty and rename Ayesha to Ayesha James. There's a reason Curry went dialing KD's number. So Curry needs to thank KD. Don't get it twisted, homer.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 09:37 PM
Lol no, I very much understand that all other teams feel that pain. Sucks. As a Warriors fan, I know how much it sucks to be the one getting **** on for decades. As a young OKC fan, you don't understand **** about that.

Yeah. Cause the Supersonics were rolling the league just a decade ago. How little you know.. Keep dreaming, my child. (Or should I say, senior citizen since you like to bring up age to validate your terrible insight).

tredigs
06-09-2018, 09:38 PM
Edit:

LOL OK I gotta stop.

Giannis94
06-09-2018, 09:45 PM
Edit:

LOL OK I gotta stop.
I remember my first beer. Tre - u r so bad ***. Teach m3.. Plz.

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 10:04 PM
You seem like the millennial. Taking bite quotes and making over-arching and spiteful takes on people you don't know because the theme of the take agrees with you. You are Trump's America; Where Twitter is King.

He said something stupid. Iíd it wasnít for him, you precious Steph wouldnít have 1 or maybe 2 rings. So of course youíre going to come to his aid when in this past youíve **** on Lebron for saying dumb things.

As long as thereís been sports, thereís been guyís saying dumb things in sports and thereís been people that call out those people that say the dumb things. Itís not a millennial thing; not even close. And all of us might not know Durant personally, but we all know him. Guys like him and Lebron have been in the spotlight for so long with a mic perpetually in their faces that we know them. And Durant has said some asinine things over the years and this is no different.


At least he didnít use his burner account and say this in the third person, another millennial trick heís pulled.

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 10:07 PM
Edit:

LOL OK I gotta stop.

And another thing, youíre calling ME millennial when you used the term ďratchetĒ to say something was bad in the Finals thread? Get the **** out of here.

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 10:09 PM
I will say this, he needs to start showing a particular appreciation for Curry if he does not want to ruffle feathers. And I am waiting for those quotes.

So you mean he has to proverbially blow him as much as you do?

Scoots
06-09-2018, 10:12 PM
Scoots became a mod because no one cares enough to mod in this site. His relevance comes from being a mod because it definitely is not from his basketball intellect. Blinded by hate? Lmao. So I guess everyone on this forum who is not a Warriors fan is blinded by hate. More like you're blinded by being a homer.

Take the troll hat off for a minute. Do YOU honestly believe that good players on bad teams put up better stats and look better because of it?

People were talking about Kevin Love as a top 5 player in the NBA on bad TWolves teams. What happened when he had more talent to play with? Did he look better or worse?

tredigs
06-09-2018, 10:13 PM
He said something stupid. Iíd it wasnít for him, you precious Steph wouldnít have 1 or maybe 2 rings. So of course youíre going to come to his aid when in this past youíve **** on Lebron for saying dumb things.

As long as thereís been sports, thereís been guyís saying dumb things in sports and thereís been people that call out those people that say the dumb things. Itís not a millennial thing; not even close. And all of us might not know Durant personally, but we all know him. Guys like him and Lebron have been in the spotlight for so long with a mic perpetually in their faces that we know them. And Durant has said some asinine things over the years and this is no different.


At least he didnít use his burner account and say this in the third person, another millennial trick heís pulled.

Out tonight but read your 1st sentence. Curry, Draymond and China Klay already had a ring. You really ****ing suck at this. Pay it no mind though. I love your stupidity little buddy!

GREATNESS ONE
06-09-2018, 10:20 PM
Lmfao!!!! This thread should be fun

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 10:31 PM
Out tonight but read your 1st sentence. Curry, Draymond and China Klay already had a ring. You really ****ing suck at this. Pay it no mind though. I love your stupidity little buddy!

You know what I mean. Then again, seeing your posts lately, maybe you donít.

Giannis94
06-09-2018, 10:32 PM
Lmfao!!!! This thread should be fun

Bucks sign kd.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 10:33 PM
Take the troll hat off for a minute. Do YOU honestly believe that good players on bad teams put up better stats and look better because of it?

People were talking about Kevin Love as a top 5 player in the NBA on bad TWolves teams. What happened when he had more talent to play with? Did he look better or worse?

1) The game has changed a lot since Love was once regarded as a top player. He's also changed his physique. The masses also never regarded Love as a top five player before joining Cleveland. He was a top PF and therefore, a top ten NBA player but I also remember Blake Griffin being a top five player to some. The league changes very quick in terms of the top 5-15 players but the top of the top are usually there for years through a proven track record.

2) Best player is a more unique position and ranking. Much more goes into it such as what have they done recently. We all know what Bron has done recently and that is why he is regarded as the best player. Not because he is on a bad team putting up insane numbers and basically carrying them. But because he's been the best player for over a decade and has played like one. There's a large majority that have LeBron as the best player. It's not because they don't "notice" Kevin Durant or Curry. Who can't notice them? They are #2/#3 in terms of endorsements in the NBA. But we've seen Curry underperform when he was expected to take over the league from LeBron and LeBron was having none of that. We've seen Kevin Durant underperform, lose a 3-1 lead over the Warriors, and then proceeded to join them. Neither of those two are not regarded as the best NBA player because they had the opportunity to prove to be when they weren't teammates and they failed.

What I grabbed from that interview was KD was once again, being KD. What have we known about KD so far? He likes to be the victim and makes excuses for himself publicly and privately. This is another excuse. He's trying to convince us that he might not be regarded as the best player because it's "harder" for him to do so since he's on such a great team. That's a pathetic comment from someone who took the "easier" road to winning a title. He could have been the best player in the NBA. How? Beat the Warriors in 2016 and then beat LeBron James and the Cavs in the Finals. And he didn't. That is why he isn't the best player in the NBA - because he didn't do anything to deserve it.

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 10:38 PM
Also, Scoots, let me help you understand why KD's comments become even more pathetic than it originally stood for.

A year ago, he said he didn't want to be a leader on a team because he didn't want the pressure of it.

Yesterday, he said he wants to stand out in any situation he is in.

Do you catch how silly and contradictory his comments come? He's managed to convince himself that he is a victim so he can self-validate his status in the NBA because the media hasn't done it for him.

But I really don't want to discuss anything with you as it seems you've been so upset about those who hate the Warriors and have been such a homer very recently that it has been almost pointless. You can keep calling me a troll but when 29 fans of other teams also find the same things I am saying to be true, it doesn't make me a troll, it makes you the homer. Keep calling me a troll, though. It lets me know that you're thinking bout me, baby.

Scoots
06-09-2018, 10:46 PM
1) The game has changed a lot since Love was once regarded as a top player. He's also changed his physique. The masses also never regarded Love as a top five player before joining Cleveland. He was a top PF and therefore, a top ten NBA player but I also remember Blake Griffin being a top five player to some. The league changes very quick in terms of the top 5-15 players but the top of the top are usually there for years through a proven track record.

2) Best player is a more unique position and ranking. Much more goes into it such as what have they done recently. We all know what Bron has done recently and that is why he is regarded as the best player. Not because he is on a bad team putting up insane numbers and basically carrying them. But because he's been the best player for over a decade and has played like one. There's a large majority that have LeBron as the best player. It's not because they don't "notice" Kevin Durant or Curry. Who can't notice them? They are #2/#3 in terms of endorsements in the NBA. But we've seen Curry underperform when he was expected to take over the league from LeBron and LeBron was having none of that. We've seen Kevin Durant underperform, lose a 3-1 lead over the Warriors, and then proceeded to join them. Neither of those two are not regarded as the best NBA player because they had the opportunity to prove to be when they weren't teammates and they failed.

What I grabbed from that interview was KD was once again, being KD. What have we known about KD so far? He likes to be the victim and makes excuses for himself publicly and privately. This is another excuse. He's trying to convince us that he might not be regarded as the best player because it's "harder" for him to do so since he's on such a great team. That's a pathetic comment from someone who took the "easier" road to winning a title. He could have been the best player in the NBA. How? Beat the Warriors in 2016 and then beat LeBron James and the Cavs in the Finals. And he didn't. That is why he isn't the best player in the NBA - because he didn't do anything to deserve it.

I think you are being intentionally obtuse as part of your trolling, but forgive me if I'm wrong.

We all know Kevin Love was the best player on those TWolves teams. It's easier to be the best player on a team full of scrubs. Everybody, but apparently you, agree on this.

Let's flip it around ... if you are on a team with MJ, Magic, Bird, and Wilt it's going to be WAAAAAAAAAY harder for you the be the best player on that team. If you are on a team with Tinky-Winky, Laa-Laa, Dipsy, and Po it's going to be MUCH easier for you to be the best player. See?

Scoots
06-09-2018, 10:50 PM
Also, Scoots, let me help you understand why KD's comments become even more pathetic than it originally stood for.

A year ago, he said he didn't want to be a leader on a team because he didn't want the pressure of it.

Yesterday, he said he wants to stand out in any situation he is in.

Do you catch how silly and contradictory his comments come? He's managed to convince himself that he is a victim so he can self-validate his status in the NBA because the media hasn't done it for him.

But I really don't want to discuss anything with you as it seems you've been so upset about those who hate the Warriors and have been such a homer very recently that it has been almost pointless. You can keep calling me a troll but when 29 fans of other teams also find the same things I am saying to be true, it doesn't make me a troll, it makes you the homer. Keep calling me a troll, though. It lets me know that you're thinking bout me, baby.

I'm not upset at all. You are either a troll or you are totally missing it. If it's just that you are missing it, let me know and I'll apologize for thinking you are trolling.

Vee-Rex
06-09-2018, 11:09 PM
I think you are being intentionally obtuse as part of your trolling, but forgive me if I'm wrong.

We all know Kevin Love was the best player on those TWolves teams. It's easier to be the best player on a team full of scrubs. Everybody, but apparently you, agree on this.

Let's flip it around ... if you are on a team with MJ, Magic, Bird, and Wilt it's going to be WAAAAAAAAAY harder for you the be the best player on that team. If you are on a team with Tinky-Winky, Laa-Laa, Dipsy, and Po it's going to be MUCH easier for you to be the best player. See?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but KD was talking about being the best player -in the world-. So I'd say you're wrong, because if you're on a bad team, defenses will key in on you faaaar more than they can if you're surrounded by all-stars.

You don't have to defend KD every chance you get. He's kind of ******** on Curry and the rest of the Warriors by putting himself above them the way he is.

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 11:12 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but KD was talking about being the best player -in the world-. So I'd say you're wrong, because if you're on a bad team, defenses will key in on you faaaar more than they can if you're surrounded by all-stars.

You don't have to defend KD every chance you get. He's kind of ******** on Curry and the rest of the Warriors by putting himself above them the way he is.

Exactly. He probably heard chatter about how Curry shoulda won the mvp and he has to make himself look better then his teammates like he deserved it more. He IS the best player on that team and he wants everyone to know that he saved them.

Scoots
06-09-2018, 11:14 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but KD was talking about being the best player -in the world-. So I'd say you're wrong, because if you're on a bad team, defenses will key in on you faaaar more than they can if you're surrounded by all-stars.

You don't have to defend KD every chance you get. He's kind of ******** on Curry and the rest of the Warriors by putting himself above them the way he is.

Honestly I think he's talking about trying to be the best player on the team. He's not saying he is the best, just that he enjoys trying.

I don't feel any need to defend KD ... he's done too many really stupid things for me to want to defend him by default, I just think in this case he's being misunderstood.

LOb0
06-09-2018, 11:17 PM
Meh his legacy won't be remembered well. Every top 10 argument will end with "He didn't do it without 3 other all stars on a 73 win team"

I think at some point he'll get tired of hearing it.

Saddletramp
06-09-2018, 11:22 PM
Meh his legacy won't be remembered well. Every top 10 argument will end with "He didn't do it without 3 other all stars on a 73 win team"

I think at some point he'll get tired of hearing it.

Heís already tired of hearing it. Remember, he didnít leave his room in the Hamptons for a week because even he knew it it was the biggest puss move of all time.

Vee-Rex
06-09-2018, 11:34 PM
Honestly I think he's talking about trying to be the best player on the team. He's not saying he is the best, just that he enjoys trying.


If that's the case then yeah I agree and see his point.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-09-2018, 11:53 PM
The counting stats won't be as good but shouldn't it be easier to be more efficient with better players?

More-Than-Most
06-09-2018, 11:58 PM
Meh, no worse than any number of baffling things Lebron has said. Durant's a great player but clearly a priss.

actually its the dumbest thing I have heard... Jordan had great players around him as did lebron and kobe and they were all considered the top players at one point or another.

KingstonHawke
06-10-2018, 12:00 AM
Flash is blinded by his hate. He knows that good players look great surrounded by scrubs. He's just trolling.

I'm starting to be less into sports discussion. Between sports and politics I'm noticing that the majority of people are just a lot dumber than I can tolerate.

What KD said makes perfect sense. It's not even debatable. Think about Michael Carter Williams winning rookie of the year because his team was so bad he got to dominate the ball. But as soon as he was asked to be the 2nd option he dissapeared. Same thing with Lonzo Ball this year and so many others. Even Hall of Famers have looked lesser than they once did when asked to take a supplemental role. Iversion and Wade just to name a few.

People are so mad at KD and LeBron for making the best business decision possible for themselves and their families that they become their Hillary Clinton. Even when what they say is perfectly reasonable they will just lie if it gives them an oppurtunity to bash them.

How do some of y'all wake up and look in the mirror knowing you have so little intergrity. I seriously couldn't do it.

Rain City
06-10-2018, 12:00 AM
i am annoyed to no end by KD. insecure, prima donna, unhappy, fake all describe him. as a sports fan i admire the heck out of his ability but so disappointing how he has upped the ante of superstar championship cherry picking in this era.

on the other end i can get it, we KILL a superstar doesn't win a championship, and now KD gets the hate treatment for ensuring he isn't on that dreaded list.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-10-2018, 12:28 AM
Flash is blinded by his hate. He knows that good players look great surrounded by scrubs. He's just trolling.

This is true. It's just a terrible point to make though so not sure why he said it.

Jamiecballer
06-10-2018, 12:44 AM
nothing to see here, he's right. just look at how some remember Iverson if you've forgotten. or james at this exact moment.

blams
06-10-2018, 02:01 AM
What is illogical about that statement though? Would a skilled 8th grader not stand out, playing with a bunch of 5th graders?

That isn't a reference to anyone.... just displaying the logic of what he saidThe problem is he's implying that the Thunder weren't great. He played alongside an MVP and a lot more.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

More-Than-Most
06-10-2018, 02:04 AM
The problem is he's implying that the Thunder weren't great. He played alongside an MVP and a lot more.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Also when has Durant been on any of the horrid cavs teams that Bron has been? Ya know that type of team that when you go in the other team sends 9 guys at you everytime you touch the ball... Durant couldnt deal with that kind of game.

nastynice
06-10-2018, 02:35 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-durant-charges-ruined-nba-making-money-thats-164105770.html

How stupid is this guy?

ďI feel like itís easy to be the best player when you donít have good players around you. I feel like itís harder to stand out when you have great players around you,Ē Durant told Yahoo Sports. ďI pride myself on standing out wherever I am. I pride myself on working hard wherever I go. And I feel like these guys embraced me and I feel like Iím a Warrior.Ē

.

KD, dropping that knowledge, give em that creme de la creme baby! :nod:

nastynice
06-10-2018, 02:37 AM
Relax guys, he's not taking shots at anyone, he just mentioning how him and his teammates go at it and expect one another to be great

LA_Raiders
06-10-2018, 02:59 AM
A Jab at LeSweep and Wesbrick.

aman_13
06-10-2018, 03:38 AM
The writer did a poor job setting up that quote. Or maybe the writer did a great job knowing how cynical the world is.

More-Than-Most
06-10-2018, 03:39 AM
A Jab at LeSweep and Wesbrick.

not shocking... Kevin Denutless talking trash after a 73 win team got him another championship.

LaVar Ball
06-10-2018, 03:40 AM
He no Jordan, Bryant or James. He never will be on that stratosphere. So it don't matter what he say. He can suck on deeeeeeeeez nuts!

mngopher35
06-10-2018, 05:20 AM
Ya from that perspective the reason why kd chose them could easily be seen as that's what he needed personally right? Curry already had a title and the year before some were arguing as better than lebron. I think back to back MVP with one unanimous. With that team he likely wins at least one more IMO.

He seemed clearly on the better track

IKnowHoops
06-10-2018, 11:18 AM
I will say this, he needs to start showing a particular appreciation for Curry if he does not want to ruffle feathers. And I am waiting for those quotes.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Another mvp miss by the selfless one who doesnít care about the award. Common Steph doesnít need more appreciation, heíd give his left nut just to make his teammates happy. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

IKnowHoops
06-10-2018, 11:22 AM
So you mean he has to proverbially blow him as much as you do?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Yes! Thatís exactly what he means😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

IKnowHoops
06-10-2018, 11:27 AM
I think you are being intentionally obtuse as part of your trolling, but forgive me if I'm wrong.

We all know Kevin Love was the best player on those TWolves teams. It's easier to be the best player on a team full of scrubs. Everybody, but apparently you, agree on this.

Let's flip it around ... if you are on a team with MJ, Magic, Bird, and Wilt it's going to be WAAAAAAAAAY harder for you the be the best player on that team. If you are on a team with Tinky-Winky, Laa-Laa, Dipsy, and Po it's going to be MUCH easier for you to be the best player. See?

Bron would have zero problem standing out as any teams best player. Even on the dubs

IKnowHoops
06-10-2018, 11:34 AM
nothing to see here, he's right. just look at how some remember Iverson if you've forgotten. or james at this exact moment.

Yeah I agree. Remember when we couldnít tell that Lebron was by far the best player on the Heat...oh wait

IKnowHoops
06-10-2018, 11:37 AM
Relax guys, he's not taking shots at anyone, he just mentioning how him and his teammates go at it and expect one another to be great

Lololol. This was an ďIĒ statement, not a ďweĒ statement. Noticed how he said, ď I pride myself on sticking out wherever Iím atĒ. Stop trying to twist every warriors comment into this perfect loveable team joint statement. We donít need your decipher. Heís not speaking in tongues

Chronz
06-10-2018, 01:17 PM
I love how kd and curry are complete opposites with regards to brons teammates. Curry elevates them andkd puts them down. I wonder who I should take seriously

cmellofan15
06-10-2018, 01:54 PM
draymond. always take draymond seriously

Giannis94
06-10-2018, 02:50 PM
Kd is a whore. And he was part of the softest team in nba history.

hugepatsfan
06-10-2018, 03:12 PM
Grass is green, water is wet, the sky is blue, Durant is soft

nastynice
06-10-2018, 03:14 PM
Lololol. This was an ďIĒ statement, not a ďweĒ statement. Noticed how he said, ď I pride myself on sticking out wherever Iím atĒ. Stop trying to twist every warriors comment into this perfect loveable team joint statement. We donít need your decipher. Heís not speaking in tongues

lol, he's not making a loveabke statement, he's doing exactly what you said, making an "I" statement, not a "he" statement

Apparently you do need me to decipher, cuz apparently anything that could be taken anyway negative against lebron renders your logic obsolete

nastynice
06-10-2018, 03:16 PM
Kd is a whore. And he was part of the softest team in nba history.

Bent over 31 other teams, and according to most would do it to any past team too.

What a soft sport :hi5:

jason
06-10-2018, 05:04 PM
Kd is a whore. And he was part of the softest team in nba history.What does that make the Bucks?

BDawk4Prez
06-10-2018, 05:52 PM
What Durant said is right, sadly, people are too blinded by hate to view it objectively.

Giannis94
06-10-2018, 06:21 PM
What does that make the Bucks?

Roadkill. But at least we tried to cross the road ; kd and his crew of softies didn't even attempt to cross it.

CHANGO
06-10-2018, 06:43 PM
People might be forgetting the part where KD says to be THE BEST. He's not talking about looking good in a bad team. ďI feel like itís easy to be the best player when you donít have good players around you." I'm not seeing the context of "being the best version of yourself" or the obvious "best player in the team" (if he meant that that might be dumber lol) the only context I see is to be the BEST PLAYER in the NBA. And therefore that's a clear shot at Lebron and a WRONG take. He then follows with ďI pride myself on standing out wherever I am..." implying that even with great teammates he still stands out and he works hard to stand out.

He knows everyone still calls Lebron the best in the NBA. He has TW he had/has a burner account, he have been dealing with that since he came to the league. So to me it's a shot at Lebron or just a loud cry for us "to see" that Lebron is only the best because he is forced to be.

But the best player in the NBA has nothing to do with your teammates. If you are the best you'll make things happen with bad teammates or great teammates of course that will not always translate to winning the ring. Lebron would still be Lebron in the Warriors or in the Nets. And that to me is where KD is wrong. It's way easier to be the best when you are surrounded by great players, the game should come easier and you won't get double-triple teamed in the Finals. (Oh hey KD you member? That's how you have 2 FMVP member that KD? Oh I member!)

hugepatsfan
06-10-2018, 10:22 PM
He's right that being the best player on a team with other great players is by definition harder than being the best player on a team with not great players. That's a nothing, no value statement. It's just a fancy way to phrase the obvious. Like he was doing with his burner accounts he's just trying to twist and turn things to minimize the fact that he tucked his tail between his legs and cowered away from shouldering the load that other players as talented as him usually have to shoulder by joining a team with another transcendent talent in Curry. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. When he signed with the Warriors he said that it wasn't about chasing legacy or proving he can carry guys but as time has gone on you can tell it's actually bothering him in ways he thought it wouldn't so he's constantly pulling stints like this to try and hype himself up.

KG2TB
06-11-2018, 01:03 AM
These athletes are pampered since forever, glorified, praised, paid more than doctors and educators of the youth of America, televised and talked about on 24 hour sports stations, and people are surprised when they say dumb ****? These guys are so out of touch with reality and are so quick to play the victim when criticism comes their way itís really just predictable. Theyíre the product of worshipping a profession that really in the end, isnít very important. But if you were in their shoes, youíd probably have a hard time not feeling like youíre a gift to the world either. I actually love the crazy, dumbass comments athletes make. Itís amusing.

Oakland
06-11-2018, 01:47 AM
I love how kd and curry are complete opposites with regards to brons teammates. Curry elevates them andkd puts them down. I wonder who I should take seriously

That is a hilarious signature picture! :laugh:

basketfan4life
06-11-2018, 02:47 AM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.

More-Than-Most
06-11-2018, 03:01 AM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.

Bron carried one of the worst teams ever for years to the finals where is Durant came in force fed talent around him at every turn...Durant couldnt do **** with talent around him where lebron couldnt win with nothing... Durant tucked his tail and went to the GOAT team where is lebron formed a team and was still that teams best player. Logic my man. Logic.

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 04:06 AM
The Celtics were past their prime? They won a title. And Ray Allen didnít come until later when Wade was in decline. Weíve been over all of this before but ooook, buddy.

nastynice
06-11-2018, 04:24 AM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.

lmao, yup.

I get people hate Durant and the warriors, and I'm OK with that, but the fact that people simultaneously defend one move while bashing the other is both ironic and hilarious. What's even funnier is when they start trying to differentiate the moves as tho that somehow explains why one would support one while hating the other. It's funny because we all know the real reason... :nod: :pity: :cool:

tredigs
06-11-2018, 05:37 AM
Bron carried one of the worst teams ever for years to the finals where is Durant came in force fed talent around him at every turn...Durant couldnt do **** with talent around him where lebron couldnt win with nothing... Durant tucked his tail and went to the GOAT team where is lebron formed a team and was still that teams best player. Logic my man. Logic.

LBJ has zero titles without multiple All Stars alongside him, don't get it twisted. And it's "where as" fyi.

Chronz
06-11-2018, 05:53 AM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.
How can you be at your peak when you're declining before ever playing with bron and haven't come close to contention form since shaq. They were top heavy as well.

Its very simple logic man, you just can't lie about the facts

nastynice
06-11-2018, 06:59 AM
How can you be at your peak when you're declining before ever playing with bron and haven't come close to contention form since shaq. They were top heavy as well.

Its very simple logic man, you just can't lie about the facts

Wade was easily the third best player in the league at the time they joined

He fell off planet earth two years later

nastynice
06-11-2018, 06:59 AM
LBJ has zero titles without multiple All Stars alongside him, don't get it twisted. And it's "where as" fyi.

Apparently him losing in the finals is more impressive than his rings

Awesome

Ahriman
06-11-2018, 07:05 AM
How can you be at your peak when you're declining before ever playing with bron and haven't come close to contention form since shaq. They were top heavy as well.

Its very simple logic man, you just can't lie about the facts

Lol let's ignore the fact Wade poured 26.5 / 7.0 / 5.2 in the 2011 finals while shooting 54%
Even the next year he was still pouring 22.6 / 6.0 / 5.2

Stop spreading the false narrative that LeBron always had to carry a bunch of scrubs to finals / title. He had plenty of help (except in 2007)
The fact that he is the best player on the court does not have to mean that his teammates are trash

basketfan4life
06-11-2018, 09:11 AM
Bron carried one of the worst teams ever for years to the finals where is Durant came in force fed talent around him at every turn...Durant couldnt do **** with talent around him where lebron couldnt win with nothing... Durant tucked his tail and went to the GOAT team where is lebron formed a team and was still that teams best player. Logic my man. Logic.

I can't believe how blinded you can be. I'm not arguing who is the better player or who could do what whit or without talent. I always say LBJ is on Jordons level and one of the top two players in the history of the game. But that doesn't change the fact that he started this superteam ****.

Then when that team declined, he again started a team with Kyrie and Love(who at the time was a 26/12 player). He won against GS with that team. GS followed the same path and got Durant and formed their superteam. LBJ is playing against a monster he created.

The point is, you can't bash Durant for what he did and pull excuses for LBJ out of your *** for what he did.

And Durant is the best player on Golden State, so LBJ was the best player on Heat argument proves nothing. Actually he hasn't choked in the finals, if you know what i mean.

warfelg
06-11-2018, 09:24 AM
On the surface KD is right. Overall though itís a stupid comment to like and it goes back to his need for validation.

Scoots
06-11-2018, 10:06 AM
lmao, yup.

I get people hate Durant and the warriors, and I'm OK with that, but the fact that people simultaneously defend one move while bashing the other is both ironic and hilarious. What's even funnier is when they start trying to differentiate the moves as tho that somehow explains why one would support one while hating the other. It's funny because we all know the real reason... :nod: :pity: :cool:

Yeah, and it's okay to point to LeBron's self bruised hand as a "reason", but Warriors injuries are "excuses". This is the way of things. LeBron haters, LeBron lovers, KD haters, Warriors fans, Warriors haters. Same people same stuff, rinse and repeat.

Chronz
06-11-2018, 11:35 AM
Wade was easily the third best player in the league at the time they joined

He fell off planet earth two years later

Maybe idk I'd have to look at the list but it wouldn't change **** of what I said. I mean its not like wade was fresh off mvps and championships+history setting success. Dude needed the help too and they United to take down the powers that be, if wade and bron both joined those same powers and simply hopped on the trolly then yeah, even Stevens, unfortunately kd didn't have the courage to beat the greatest and become the greatest in the league. It's good tho, as long as he's happy giving all that up, maybe he won't need a burner account this offseason

Chronz
06-11-2018, 11:37 AM
Lol let's ignore the fact Wade poured 26.5 / 7.0 / 5.2 in the 2011 finals while shooting 54%
Even the next year he was still pouring 22.6 / 6.0 / 5.2

Stop spreading the false narrative that LeBron always had to carry a bunch of scrubs to finals / title. He had plenty of help (except in 2007)
The fact that he is the best player on the court does not have to mean that his teammates are trash

I'm not ignoring it, I'm referencing it. Check the post you quoted.

I'm spreading no false narrative, spare me these straws and learn how to really debate, you know, by actually tackling my literal words

CHANGO
06-11-2018, 11:41 AM
lmao, yup.

I get people hate Durant and the warriors, and I'm OK with that, but the fact that people simultaneously defend one move while bashing the other is both ironic and hilarious. What's even funnier is when they start trying to differentiate the moves as tho that somehow explains why one would support one while hating the other. It's funny because we all know the real reason... :nod: :pity: :cool:

You really gotta be a dumb mother****er to not see the differences between one move and the other. Either that or a blind homer. I choose the 2nd.

Chronz
06-11-2018, 11:45 AM
You really gotta be a dumb mother****er to not see the differences between one move and the other. Either that or a blind homer. I choose the 2nd.

I'd just want to know this from those who somehow deluded themselves into thinking they're the same.

Are ALL moves/ defections/ trades exactly the same no matter what?

mngopher35
06-11-2018, 12:25 PM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.

Oh look the good old LBJ started this stuff don't talk about Boston because...

Guess what, don't talk about Lebron/Heat because... Works in the exact same way when it comes to GS.

There were clear cut differences for both sets of situations. The haters/homers are the ones that take this type of illogical approach of making "excuses" why one is different while ignoring that there are obviously also reasons/differences in the other situation. If you wanna talk details/differences to say two of these aren't the same you also have to be willing to do it for all the comparisons or else it isn't being consistent.


lmao, yup.

I get people hate Durant and the warriors, and I'm OK with that, but the fact that people simultaneously defend one move while bashing the other is both ironic and hilarious. What's even funnier is when they start trying to differentiate the moves as tho that somehow explains why one would support one while hating the other. It's funny because we all know the real reason... :nod: :pity: :cool:

Shocking that you would agree with him!

As to your bold see the bold of his above. He tried to differentiate moves and you agreed in the end! It's only bad to differentiate moves when it comes to KD apparently.

So long as you see Boston to Heat to GS all the same it would be all good. Thing is people like you guys don't bring up Boston as starting this etc. and the reason is SOOOO obvious. The homers/haters are the ones that can't be consistent with their logic, I do agree we know why that gets ignored so often in these convos though.


I'd just want to know this from those who somehow deluded themselves into thinking they're the same.

Are ALL moves/ defections/ trades exactly the same no matter what?

Even in the first couple posts on this above you can see it. No Boston isn't the same because...

If you say Miami isn't the same because... THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THOUGH AND YOU MUST BE A HATER

Obviously you are spot on in where you are going with this but it has been pointed out to these same people hundreds of times by now lol. They are choosing to ignore the obvious context at this point.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-11-2018, 12:41 PM
Durant winning Finals MVP is basically the equivalent of him holding serve. He is supposed to win Finals MVP. He's the best player on a stacked team. If he didn't win Finals MVP, his stock goes down. But the bottom line is there's no way for his stock to go up... not on this team.

IMO, Durant was always pretty much locked in to being considered a top 15 player all time by the time his career is finished. His production at his age is undeniable. But he'll never be considered the G.O.A.T. He'll never have a chance to enter that conversation so long as he's on this team. At best, he'll be considered fringe top 10.

The point is, you have to lose respect for a player of his caliber who chooses to take the easy way out rather than step up to the competition and be a true leader. On the merits of his talent alone, he had a legitimate case of being a top 5 player all time, but he denied himself the chance to prove it and destroyed the competitive balance of the league in the process. But what is truly sickening is when Durant tries to imply that he didn't take the easy way out. At least own up to it. Don't try to say that the path you took is actually the harder path. Seriously, I'd have more respect for him if he just embraced his role as the villain. If he came out and said, "yeah, this was the easy path and now we are gonna win 6 championships in a row and have success like no other team has had since Russell's Celtics"... I'd be like, ok at least you're telling it like it is. Game on.

But no, he acts like he took the hard path and tries to justify it. What a *****.

FOXHOUND
06-11-2018, 01:26 PM
Durant says and does dumb stuff sometimes but this much salt is really bad for your blood pressure.

nastynice
06-11-2018, 04:17 PM
Maybe idk I'd have to look at the list but it wouldn't change **** of what I said. I mean its not like wade was fresh off mvps and championships+history setting success. Dude needed the help too and they United to take down the powers that be, if wade and bron both joined those same powers and simply hopped on the trolly then yeah, even Stevens, unfortunately kd didn't have the courage to beat the greatest and become the greatest in the league. It's good tho, as long as he's happy giving all that up, maybe he won't need a burner account this offseason

lol

nastynice
06-11-2018, 04:19 PM
You really gotta be a dumb mother****er to not see the differences between one move and the other. Either that or a blind homer. I choose the 2nd.

Oh I se the differences, what I'm pointing out is what a dumb mother****er you are for thinking it actually means anything...both guys stacked the deck, one thought he was gonna win 8 rings because of how heavy he stacked it, same ****.. . you gotta be one dumb *** mother****er to not see that..

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 04:35 PM
Maybe idk I'd have to look at the list but it wouldn't change **** of what I said. I mean its not like wade was fresh off mvps and championships+history setting success. Dude needed the help too and they United to take down the powers that be, if wade and bron both joined those same powers and simply hopped on the trolly then yeah, even Stevens, unfortunately kd didn't have the courage to beat the greatest and become the greatest in the league. It's good tho, as long as he's happy giving all that up, maybe he won't need a burner account this offseason

Exactly. Three guys from three different teams joined up together to try to take down a few super teams (Celtics, Lakers) because the Raptors couldnít get anybody, the Cavs front office sucked for the 7 straight years Lebron was with them and the ship had sailed in Miami.

If Durant wouldíve left a team like this past years Suns or if he wouldíve joined with two new guys (Iíve mentioned before Butler and Horford as an example) then it would be similar. But he left one of the ďsuper teamsĒ in the league (Cle because of Lebron, GS and the Spurs being the others) for another one. That was the difference. How the **** people canít figure this out is beyond me. Just totally asinine.

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 04:37 PM
And it's "where as" fyi.

Yeah, what a ratchet mistake.

CHANGO
06-11-2018, 04:46 PM
Oh I se the differences, what I'm pointing out is what a dumb mother****er you are for thinking it actually means anything...both guys stacked the deck, one thought he was gonna win 8 rings because of how heavy he stacked it, same ****.. . you gotta be one dumb *** mother****er to not see that..

I thought it was the 2nd one, a blind homer. But now I definitely see it's a dumb mother****er.

CHANGO
06-11-2018, 04:48 PM
I love how people ignore mngopher35's posts and stick to trolling. Not only his posts but also mine and other posters that bring logic into conversations. You can't be logical here, you are either a fanboy or a hater. No in-between and no reality.

nastynice
06-11-2018, 04:59 PM
I thought it was the 2nd one, a blind homer. But now I definitely see it's a dumb mother****er.

No, you were right, don't be a dumb mother****er, you're a blind homer :)

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 05:04 PM
Oh I se the differences, what I'm pointing out is what a dumb mother****er you are for thinking it actually means anything...both guys stacked the deck, one thought he was gonna win 8 rings because of how heavy he stacked it, same ****.. . you gotta be one dumb *** mother****er to not see that..



It was a pep rally. You ever been to a pep rally? Itís what you do at one of those.

And I remember you lol-ing at Draymond when he said that the ďCavs suckĒ after 2015. So talking **** before the journey isnít cool but talking **** after is ok? Just another terrible nastynice take.

Scoots
06-11-2018, 06:57 PM
I love how people ignore mngopher35's posts and stick to trolling. Not only his posts but also mine and other posters that bring logic into conversations. You can't be logical here, you are either a fanboy or a hater. No in-between and no reality.

Indeed, and the people in between are driven away.

papipapsmanny
06-11-2018, 07:27 PM
Exactly. Three guys from three different teams joined up together to try to take down a few super teams (Celtics, Lakers) because the Raptors couldnít get anybody, the Cavs front office sucked for the 7 straight years Lebron was with them and the ship had sailed in Miami.

If Durant wouldíve left a team like this past years Suns or if he wouldíve joined with two new guys (Iíve mentioned before Butler and Horford as an example) then it would be similar. But he left one of the ďsuper teamsĒ in the league (Cle because of Lebron, GS and the Spurs being the others) for another one. That was the difference. How the **** people canít figure this out is beyond me. Just totally asinine.

The only point here is joined an already good team. Don't act like Wade/Bosh were the equivalent Butler/Horford.

Lebron joined (At the time) Wade who was a lock for top 5 best player in the game, and Bosh certainly within the top 15 (at worst) coming off a 24/11 Campaign in toronto. Let's not act like he took some hard path here. His main competition in the East was a old Celtics team.... which is still the best team he has face since 2011 in the east...

What Lebron did would be the equivalent of Durant Joining Thompson and Curry.

More-Than-Most
06-11-2018, 07:30 PM
The only point here is joined an already good team. Don't act line Wade/Bosh were the equivalent Butler/Horford.

Lebron joined (At the time) Wade who was a lock for top 5 best player in the game, and Bosh certainly within the top 15 (at worst) coming off a 24/11 Campaign in toronto. Let's not act like he took some hard path here. His main competition in the East was a old Celtics team.... which is still the best team he has face since 2011 in the east...

What Lebron did would be the equivalent of Durant Joining Thompson and Curry.

its like you are intentionally ignoring the factors... its not even closely similar... Durant joined a TEAM... The team he joined as the player he was fit in like a perfect puzzle piece and that is completely different from grabbing 2 other top players and forcing things to work.

papipapsmanny
06-11-2018, 07:34 PM
its like you are intentionally ignoring the factors... its not even closely similar... Durant joined a TEAM... The team he joined as the player he was fit in like a perfect puzzle piece and that is completely different from grabbing 2 other top players and forcing things to work.

Each way is an extremely easy path....

More-Than-Most
06-11-2018, 07:37 PM
Each way is an extremely easy path....

No its not... Lebron didnt join the already best team in basketball by far while weakening the 2nd best team that was the closest team because he choked against the best team. Lebron formed a team after leaving the worst team without him and forced guys that never played together to come together quickly... There was quite a bit of people on here that understood the sport and said the heat wouldnt just come right out of the gate and win it all because of fit.... Everyone said the warriors broke the league and would win titles except warrior fans who tried to play the underdog so they cant hear the choke arguments. Again facts/logic/understanding of basketball.


Again for christ sakes... Lebron forming their big 3 was not anything similar to what durant did... Lebron Joining the celtics would be the equivalent except the celtics arent close to what the warriors are with curry/klay/green in their primes.

More-Than-Most
06-11-2018, 07:43 PM
Oh yea lets not forgot about the warriors bench which is so far ahead of what the heat had... Iggy would be the 4th best player on that heat team and maybe even arguably as important in the playoffs as bosh because of iggy defense.

A team together during a championship adding the perfect fit which is the 2nd best player in basketball is nowhere close to throwing a team together in one season.

papipapsmanny
06-11-2018, 07:43 PM
No its not... Lebron didnt join the already best team in basketball by far while weakening the 2nd best team that was the closest team because he choked against the best team. Lebron formed a team after leaving the worst team without him and forced guys that never played together to come together quickly... There was quite a bit of people on here that understood the sport and said the heat wouldnt just come right out of the gate and win it all because of fit.... Everyone said the warriors broke the league and would win titles except warrior fans who tried to play the underdog so they cant hear the choke arguments. Again facts/logic/understanding of basketball.

No clearly you are trying to manufacture a narrative here.

The difference of joining the best team and creating one are not that much different. Both were the easy path to the finals....


If Jordan called Dominque Wilkins and Patrick Ewing and decided to all sign in Atlanta, that team would have been expected to win the finals. They would have been castrated if the didn't win the finals.

I don't care which one is easier... both are easy, both are *******. Lebron/Durant backers cannot attack each other claiming said player took the easy way, without being a hypocrite. Most they can argue, is which was easier... that is about it

More-Than-Most
06-11-2018, 07:46 PM
No clearly you are trying to manufacture a narrative here.

The difference of joining the best team and creating one are not that much different. Both were the easy path to the finals....


If Jordan called Dominque Wilkins and Patrick Ewing and decided to all sign in Atlanta, that team would have been expected to win the finals. They would have been castrated if the didn't win the finals.

I don't care which one is easier... both are easy, both are *******. Lebron/Durant backers cannot attack each other claiming said player took the easy way, without being a hypocrite. Most they can argue, is which was easier... that is about it

I stopped reading right there... No point in going forward. You should be ashamed.

Chronz
06-11-2018, 09:23 PM
No clearly you are trying to manufacture a narrative here.

The difference of joining the best team and creating one are not that much different. Both were the easy path to the finals....


If Jordan called Dominque Wilkins and Patrick Ewing and decided to all sign in Atlanta, that team would have been expected to win the finals. They would have been castrated if the didn't win the finals.

I don't care which one is easier... both are easy, both are *******. Lebron/Durant backers cannot attack each other claiming said player took the easy way, without being a hypocrite. Most they can argue, is which was easier... that is about it

Not when that team can accomplish so much without you.

Mj didn't have to call those guys, he already had the squad, remember how good they were without mj

nastynice
06-11-2018, 09:26 PM
It was a pep rally. You ever been to a pep rally? Itís what you do at one of those.

And I remember you lol-ing at Draymond when he said that the ďCavs suckĒ after 2015. So talking **** before the journey isnít cool but talking **** after is ok? Just another terrible nastynice take.

lol, pep rally

We shoulda had one too

nastynice
06-11-2018, 09:42 PM
. Lebron/Durant backers cannot attack each other claiming said player took the easy way, without being a hypocrite.

This

I be laughing when people are talking about how Lebrons super team move bit him in the ***, poor guy, it really did. I almost feel guilty that a player as great as lebron is dealing with finals sweeps

mngopher35
06-11-2018, 09:59 PM
I love how people ignore mngopher35's posts and stick to trolling. Not only his posts but also mine and other posters that bring logic into conversations. You can't be logical here, you are either a fanboy or a hater. No in-between and no reality.

I'm glad someone else noticed haha. It amazes me because those same people whine all the time about haters/homers when they are literally the problem. See the post below yours as an example haha.


Indeed, and the people in between are driven away.

Ya even I tend to post in spurts, it can be hard seeing the same old same old. Bring up obvious points with actual logic they get completely ignored for the same back and forth convos where they just go off on whatever.

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 10:15 PM
The only point here is joined an already good team. Don't act like Wade/Bosh were the equivalent Butler/Horford.

Lebron joined (At the time) Wade who was a lock for top 5 best player in the game, and Bosh certainly within the top 15 (at worst) coming off a 24/11 Campaign in toronto. Let's not act like he took some hard path here. His main competition in the East was a old Celtics team.... which is still the best team he has face since 2011 in the east...

What Lebron did would be the equivalent of Durant Joining Thompson and Curry.

Nope. Joining is easier than forming. Riding coattails is easier than trying to all commingle.

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 10:16 PM
No its not... Lebron didnt join the already best team in basketball by far while weakening the 2nd best team that was the closest team because he choked against the best team. Lebron formed a team after leaving the worst team without him and forced guys that never played together to come together quickly... There was quite a bit of people on here that understood the sport and said the heat wouldnt just come right out of the gate and win it all because of fit.... Everyone said the warriors broke the league and would win titles except warrior fans who tried to play the underdog so they cant hear the choke arguments. Again facts/logic/understanding of basketball.


Again for christ sakes... Lebron forming their big 3 was not anything similar to what durant did... Lebron Joining the celtics would be the equivalent except the celtics arent close to what the warriors are with curry/klay/green in their primes.

Perfectly said. Some people just arenít bright enough to get it.

Saddletramp
06-11-2018, 10:18 PM
lol, pep rally

We shoulda had one too

KD wouldnít allow it. He was still hiding in his bedroom embarrassed by his unprecedented pussifacation.

papipapsmanny
06-11-2018, 10:21 PM
Not when that team can accomplish so much without you.

Mj didn't have to call those guys, he already had the squad, remember how good they were without mj

I mean I remember them not winning or going to the finals for two years without him.

I also know 94 was when Grant/Pippen were in the absolute Prime of their careers, and acknowledge that they added Kukoc, Kerr and Longley, so it wasn't the 93 team minus MJ.

I also know for Comparison's sake, Wade and Bosh were better than Pippen and Grant, and MJ didn't call them after knowing they were good players to team up.

I guess for comparison's sake everything is a double standard for for Lebron vs MJ or Durant now I guess. Lebron guys will say the Lakers were old in 91, when the Reality is Magic was 31 and the oldest of their top 7 players, and Magic certainly had not declined.

Throw it out there the the 2011 Celtics were old, when Pierce was 33, Garnett 34, and Allen 35.... no they weren't old......

MJ had a great team (especially because he was on it), Lebron and Durant were *****es about it. Facts right... what is left to debate.... who was the bigger ***** between Lebron and Durant? Go for it

nastynice
06-11-2018, 10:23 PM
KD wouldnít allow it. He was still hiding in his bedroom embarrassed by his unprecedented pussifacation.

Coulda live streamed it tho..

papipapsmanny
06-11-2018, 10:30 PM
Perfectly said. Some people just arenít bright enough to get it.

This is so unbelievably stupid.

So you are that impressed that the Heat replacing Michael Beasley and Jermaine O'Neal with Lebron and Bosh, amounted to 11 more wins? Or was a washed up Quentin Richardson a big loss in your eyes from he 2010 Heat?

Scoots
06-11-2018, 10:51 PM
I'm glad someone else noticed haha. It amazes me because those same people whine all the time about haters/homers when they are literally the problem. See the post below yours as an example haha.



Ya even I tend to post in spurts, it can be hard seeing the same old same old. Bring up obvious points with actual logic they get completely ignored for the same back and forth convos where they just go off on whatever.

Even this conversation is being ignored for more of the same old s all around it.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-11-2018, 11:28 PM
No its not... Lebron didnt join the already best team in basketball by far while weakening the 2nd best team that was the closest team because he choked against the best team. Lebron formed a team after leaving the worst team without him and forced guys that never played together to come together quickly... There was quite a bit of people on here that understood the sport and said the heat wouldnt just come right out of the gate and win it all because of fit.... Everyone said the warriors broke the league and would win titles except warrior fans who tried to play the underdog so they cant hear the choke arguments. Again facts/logic/understanding of basketball.


Again for christ sakes... Lebron forming their big 3 was not anything similar to what durant did... Lebron Joining the celtics would be the equivalent except the celtics arent close to what the warriors are with curry/klay/green in their primes.

I don't think there is anything worse Lebron could do than what Durant did... with the lone exception being if Lebron actually joined Golden State.

Also about him potentially signing with Boston, it's not just that the Celtics aren't close to what the Warriors were. There is another huge factor to consider and this is the fact that unlike Durant who signed with the team he couldn't beat, Lebron would be signing with the team he literally just beat. Lebron has nothing to prove in the East. He can join any of those teams and it wouldn't be anything close to what Durant did.

Even if he joins Houston, it's not as bad. It would suck because it would create a two team league, but on the other hand it might create the only situation where we actually see a team that could beat Golden State. So as much as I don't want to see the NBA become a 2 team league, it might be better than it being a 1 team league which you could say is the case right now.

Jeffy25
06-11-2018, 11:35 PM
Wade was easily the third best player in the league at the time they joined

He fell off planet earth two years later

He wasn't third in league leaders in anything that prior year except for usage.

nastynice
06-12-2018, 01:15 AM
He wasn't third in league leaders in anything that prior year except for usage.

Makes no difference, if you are arguing he wasn't the far away consensus third best player in the league then you simply don't remember that off-season. The only argument against that was that he was actually the 2nd best player, ahead of kobe, but kobe just got his 5th ring and prob had more to do with kobe haters than anything

More-Than-Most
06-12-2018, 02:17 AM
Makes no difference, if you are arguing he wasn't the far away consensus third best player in the league then you simply don't remember that off-season. The only argument against that was that he was actually the 2nd best player, ahead of kobe, but kobe just got his 5th ring and prob had more to do with kobe haters than anything

Dwight/CP3/Dirk/KB/DRose/Blake... Without looking a ton of these guys probably have arguments. Nobody has an argument over Durant outside of Lebron and maybe AD.


Dwight gets a ton of **** but he was putting up 23/14 all while being DPOY that year and the 2 years before.... He was better than wade.

DRose/Dwight/Lebron/Durant were all better... Then you got Dirk/CP3/Williams/Wade/Kobe in no order for these 4. So yea wade wasnt the far and away consensus for top 3 player.

Jeffy25
06-12-2018, 02:22 AM
Makes no difference, if you are arguing he wasn't the far away consensus third best player in the league then you simply don't remember that off-season. The only argument against that was that he was actually the 2nd best player, ahead of kobe, but kobe just got his 5th ring and prob had more to do with kobe haters than anything

I would rank the players that off-season as this

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Dwight
4. Kobe
5. Dirk
6. Wade
7. Duncan
8. Rose
9. Paul
10. Gasol/Manu

25. Bosh


When Durant went to the Warriors, I'd argue it was

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. AD
4. Curry
12. Thompson
25. Green

That's insane

2, 4, 12, and 25 are on the same roster, and you are comparing that to 1, 6, and 25?


It's the equivalent of Tim Duncan joining Shaq and Kobe during their 3 peat or if Magic joined the Celtics during the 80's. It's an insanely lopsided jump.

More-Than-Most
06-12-2018, 02:23 AM
I would rank the players that off-season as this

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Dwight
4. Kobe
5. Dirk
6. Wade
7. Duncan
8. Horford
9. Manu
10. Gasol

25. Bosh


When Durant went to the Warriors, I'd argue it was

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. AD
4. Curry
12. Thompson
25. Green

That's insane

2, 4, 12, and 25 are on the same roster, and you are comparing that to 1, 6, and 25?


It's the equivalent of Tim Duncan joining Shaq and Kobe during their 3 peat or if Magic joined the Celtics during the 80's. It's an insanely lopsided jump.

whats shocking is we forget it but westy was also pretty great in 11.

More-Than-Most
06-12-2018, 02:24 AM
I would rank the players that off-season as this

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Dwight
4. Kobe
5. Dirk
6. Wade
7. Duncan
8. Rose
9. Paul
10. Gasol/Manu

25. Bosh


When Durant went to the Warriors, I'd argue it was

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. AD
4. Curry
12. Thompson
25. Green

That's insane

2, 4, 12, and 25 are on the same roster, and you are comparing that to 1, 6, and 25?


It's the equivalent of Tim Duncan joining Shaq and Kobe during their 3 peat or if Magic joined the Celtics during the 80's. It's an insanely lopsided jump.

welp this wraps it up. Great post.

basketfan4life
06-12-2018, 02:27 AM
ok i get it. Lebron joining wade and bosh in the weak east is perfectly ok. KD joining Curry and Thompson in the wild west is a ***** move.

In reality they are both ***** moves. How hard is it to accept ?

LeBron > Kob, i agree
Lbj=MJ, i agree
LBJ is the best in the leage, i agree
LBJ to Miami wasn't a a ***** move, I DON'T AGREE.

People do ****ed up things, even Lebron.

nastynice
06-12-2018, 03:45 AM
Dwight/CP3/Dirk/KB/DRose/Blake... Without looking a ton of these guys probably have arguments. Nobody has an argument over Durant outside of Lebron and maybe AD.


Dwight gets a ton of **** but he was putting up 23/14 all while being DPOY that year and the 2 years before.... He was better than wade.

DRose/Dwight/Lebron/Durant were all better... Then you got Dirk/CP3/Williams/Wade/Kobe in no order for these 4. So yea wade wasnt the far and away consensus for top 3 player.

Yes, arguments for many, no doubt, doesn't change the heavy consensus of d Wade having that spot locked up.

nastynice
06-12-2018, 03:47 AM
I would rank the players that off-season as this

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Dwight
4. Kobe
5. Dirk
6. Wade
7. Duncan
8. Rose
9. Paul
10. Gasol/Manu

25. Bosh


When Durant went to the Warriors, I'd argue it was

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. AD
4. Curry
12. Thompson
25. Green

That's insane

2, 4, 12, and 25 are on the same roster, and you are comparing that to 1, 6, and 25?


It's the equivalent of Tim Duncan joining Shaq and Kobe during their 3 peat or if Magic joined the Celtics during the 80's. It's an insanely lopsided jump.

I'm sorry, this is complete bs, I already know you don't remember that off season, what stat you're basing this off of, I have no clue.

I'm not arguing Wade as the consensus #3 because of anything to do with Lebron and Durant, I'm doing it because before the big 3 formed that's what most people were saying. It's simply what it was. Approach it like that, don't approach it with some end goal in mind in this stupid lebron Durant debate

Saddletramp
06-12-2018, 03:50 AM
This is so unbelievably stupid.

So you are that impressed that the Heat replacing Michael Beasley and Jermaine O'Neal with Lebron and Bosh, amounted to 11 more wins? Or was a washed up Quentin Richardson a big loss in your eyes from he 2010 Heat?

Why would I keep talking about this to you? Like I said, some people just wonít get it.

tredigs
06-12-2018, 04:13 AM
He wasn't third in league leaders in anything that prior year except for usage.
Lol you don't know a damn thing about the NBA dude. You need to sit back. Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA and IMO better than prime Kobe. As an incumbent All NBA 1st Teamer, Stats wise Wade in 09/10 was 2nd in BPM, 2nd in VORP, 3rd in WS/48 and 2nd in PER. He was 28 years old and peaking.

Ahriman
06-12-2018, 04:42 AM
I'm not ignoring it, I'm referencing it. Check the post you quoted.

I'm spreading no false narrative, spare me these straws and learn how to really debate, you know, by actually tackling my literal words

Your literal words were


How can you be at your peak when you're declining before ever playing with bron and haven't come close to contention form since shaq. They were top heavy as well.

I can't deny the facts the Heat were top heavy as most super teams are. The Celts were also top heavy (+ Rondo which they drafted and at the time was pretty darn good) and actually much older than the Heat

What I am arguing against is the "declining before every playing with LeBron" which is absolutely wrong. The team blew it up in 07/08 when D.Wade hurt himself and then he led a trash team in the playoffs every year. But the 10/11 (and arguably 11/12) D.Wade was still an elite player (easily top 5)
Then he fell of the cliff in 12/13 & 13/14

If debates for you equals to "Agree with me or your post is invalid" then I'm happy to leave it here.

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 05:34 AM
Dwight/CP3/Dirk/KB/DRose/Blake... Without looking a ton of these guys probably have arguments. Nobody has an argument over Durant outside of Lebron and maybe AD.


Dwight gets a ton of **** but he was putting up 23/14 all while being DPOY that year and the 2 years before.... He was better than wade.

DRose/Dwight/Lebron/Durant were all better... Then you got Dirk/CP3/Williams/Wade/Kobe in no order for these 4. So yea wade wasnt the far and away consensus for top 3 player.

:laugh2:

Jesus, the narrative game BS here has gotten so bad.

That Stephen Curry guy was pretty decent too, if I remember correctly...

In 2008-09 Wade finished top 3 in both MVP and DPOY. In 2009-10 he led a team where his 2nd and 3rd best players were an old Jermaine O'Neal and and young Michael Beasley to 47-wins. Against the exact same Boston team that LeBron choked/quit against that postseason because they were "too tough and he needed more help", Wade put up 33 PTS, 6.8 AST, 5.6 REB, 1.6 STL and 1.6 BLK while shooting .564 from the field and going an insane 15-37 from 3 in just 5 games.

You don't remember 2010 at all. Remove LeBron from you anus.

Chronz
06-12-2018, 05:36 AM
ok i get it. Lebron joining wade and bosh in the weak east is perfectly ok. KD joining Curry and Thompson in the wild west is a ***** move.

In reality they are both ***** moves. How hard is it to accept ?

LeBron > Kob, i agree
Lbj=MJ, i agree
LBJ is the best in the leage, i agree
LBJ to Miami wasn't a a ***** move, I DON'T AGREE.

People do ****ed up things, even Lebron.

Would it be the same if Bron legit joined Kobe while he was winning chips back then? What if he joined the warriors today

Chronz
06-12-2018, 05:40 AM
Your literal words were



I can't deny the facts the Heat were top heavy as most super teams are. The Celts were also top heavy (+ Rondo which they drafted and at the time was pretty darn good) and actually much older than the Heat

What I am arguing against is the "declining before every playing with LeBron" which is absolutely wrong. The team blew it up in 07/08 when D.Wade hurt himself and then he led a trash team in the playoffs every year. But the 10/11 (and arguably 11/12) D.Wade was still an elite player (easily top 5)
Then he fell of the cliff in 12/13 & 13/14

If debates for you equals to "Agree with me or your post is invalid" then I'm happy to leave it here.

How can it be absolutely wrong when it's quite literally, empirically true? I never said wade was a grandpa lol

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 05:43 AM
I mean I remember them not winning or going to the finals for two years without him.

I also know 94 was when Grant/Pippen were in the absolute Prime of their careers, and acknowledge that they added Kukoc, Kerr and Longley, so it wasn't the 93 team minus MJ.

I also know for Comparison's sake, Wade and Bosh were better than Pippen and Grant, and MJ didn't call them after knowing they were good players to team up.

I guess for comparison's sake everything is a double standard for for Lebron vs MJ or Durant now I guess. Lebron guys will say the Lakers were old in 91, when the Reality is Magic was 31 and the oldest of their top 7 players, and Magic certainly had not declined.

Throw it out there the the 2011 Celtics were old, when Pierce was 33, Garnett 34, and Allen 35.... no they weren't old......

MJ had a great team (especially because he was on it), Lebron and Durant were *****es about it. Facts right... what is left to debate.... who was the bigger ***** between Lebron and Durant? Go for it

:laugh2:

Exactly.

When you've got people defending comments from the pep rally because it was a pep rally, ignoring that nobody had ever done that kind of WWE bullsh/t before "The Heatles", you know that the bias is way past the point of no return.

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 05:48 AM
Would it be the same if Bron legit joined Kobe while he was winning chips back then? What if he joined the warriors today

What's funny is people thinking LeBron wouldn't do something like that if the option was available, when Miami formed a team that completely trumped them in talent to the point that they came out and said they were going to easily win 7+ rings.

:laugh2:

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 05:50 AM
How can it be absolutely wrong when it's quite literally, empirically true? I never said wade was a grandpa lol

In 2009-10 vs Boston Wade had one of the best postseason series' of his career. Same for the 2010-11 Finals.

If that's what "declining" looks like at the ripe old age of 28/29 then everyone is declining in the same sense that we are all dying.

KnicksorBust
06-12-2018, 05:50 AM
null

This. Forget about wasting time trolling Durant for being soft, I just disagree. Empty stats on bad teams never elevate a player to be MVP. He is wrong on merit.

Saddletramp
06-12-2018, 06:18 AM
What's funny is people thinking LeBron wouldn't do something like that if the option was available, when Miami formed a team that completely trumped them in talent to the point that they came out and said they were going to easily win 7+ rings.

:laugh2:

It was a pep rally. How the **** is that hard to comprehend? I think it was announced the same day that it happened to welcome Bosh and Lebron in. Never understood why people are such *******s about it.

I almost explained what a pep rally was. If that needs to be explained to you then

Ahriman
06-12-2018, 06:35 AM
In 2009-10 vs Boston Wade had one of the best postseason series' of his career. Same for the 2010-11 Finals.

If that's what "declining" looks like at the ripe old age of 28/29 then everyone is declining in the same sense that we are all dying.

This

2005/06 Wade was 27.2 / 5.7 / 6.7 on .495 shooting (.239 WS/48)
2009/10 Wade was 26.6 / 4.8 / 6.5 on .476 shooting (.218 WS/48)

That is a pretty steep decline ! And that is without factoring the overall level of the team he had around him. I see a lot of people arguing that it is easier to put up great numbers with great teammates (which Shaq was in 05/06) :)

It is just semantics. If Chronz wants to be right because 28 yr old Wade had 0.6 ppg less than 24 yr old Wade then I'm happy to give him that

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 06:56 AM
It was a pep rally. How the **** is that hard to comprehend? I think it was announced the same day that it happened to welcome Bosh and Lebron in. Never understood why people are such *******s about it.

I almost explained what a pep rally was. If that needs to be explained to you then

It's not hard to comprehend the mindset of people who would even think to have something like a FA pep rally in a professional sports league. Or do you think that someone who decided to make his own FA decision a TV spectacle, only adding the charity aspect in the 11th hour because they were getting killed on PR, had nothing to do with the pep rally idea?

You think they were following a script in Miami when they said that stuff? No, they were just boasting on an insane level the league had never seen before. Wade and Bosh were also filming when they were going on their FA meetings but it just never saw the light of day, to my knowledge. The three of them were orchestrating from 2008 and did some really pathetic and petty stuff in the process, beyond basketball reasons.

What you're saying would be like saying ignore what Durant said in his burner account tweets because they were burner accounts tweets. That's what people say on burner account tweets, he was just stirring the pot duuuuh. :laugh2:

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 07:02 AM
This

2005/06 Wade was 27.2 / 5.7 / 6.7 on .495 shooting (.239 WS/48)
2009/10 Wade was 26.6 / 4.8 / 6.5 on .476 shooting (.218 WS/48)

That is a pretty steep decline ! And that is without factoring the overall level of the team he had around him. I see a lot of people arguing that it is easier to put up great numbers with great teammates (which Shaq was in 05/06) :)

It is just semantics. If Chronz wants to be right because 28 yr old Wade had 0.6 ppg less than 24 yr old Wade then I'm happy to give him that

Yeah, saying that Wade was declining before LeBron even got there is certainly a new take. How ridiculous.

Even in 2012 when he was banged up from injuries all year he was still good enough to do things like dropping 41 on 17-25 vs the Pacers top defense in the deciding game 6. In fact, in the last 3 games of that series he averaged 33 PPG on .615 shooting after they went down 2-1.

Most players would love to "decline" that well.

basketfan4life
06-12-2018, 08:04 AM
Would it be the same if Bron legit joined Kobe while he was winning chips back then? What if he joined the warriors today

I don't know if i understand you correctly, forgive me if not.

I tried to say prime/peak LBJ = MJ and > Kobe. Who he played with doesn't change that for me.

If you are referencing this to the ***** move part, joining those two teams would be ***** moves too.

Chronz
06-12-2018, 08:40 AM
What's funny is people thinking LeBron wouldn't do something like that if the option was available, when Miami formed a team that completely trumped them in talent to the point that they came out and said they were going to easily win 7+ rings.

:laugh2:
Then why didn't he do it? I don't think he would precisely because of Miami

Chronz
06-12-2018, 08:42 AM
In 2009-10 vs Boston Wade had one of the best postseason series' of his career. Same for the 2010-11 Finals.

If that's what "declining" looks like at the ripe old age of 28/29 then everyone is declining in the same sense that we are all dying.

Look up the definition of peak. I disagree with your statement on Boston , they didn't take the heat seriously ay all back then

Chronz
06-12-2018, 08:42 AM
I don't know if i understand you correctly, forgive me if not.

I tried to say prime/peak LBJ = MJ and > Kobe. Who he played with doesn't change that for me.

If you are referencing this to the ***** move part, joining those two teams would be ***** moves too.
So the moves would be the same despite the massive difference in support? Just what kind of move would be ok if that's thecase

Chronz
06-12-2018, 08:43 AM
This

2005/06 Wade was 27.2 / 5.7 / 6.7 on .495 shooting (.239 WS/48)
2009/10 Wade was 26.6 / 4.8 / 6.5 on .476 shooting (.218 WS/48)

That is a pretty steep decline ! And that is without factoring the overall level of the team he had around him. I see a lot of people arguing that it is easier to put up great numbers with great teammates (which Shaq was in 05/06) :)

It is just semantics. If Chronz wants to be right because 28 yr old Wade had 0.6 ppg less than 24 yr old Wade then I'm happy to give him that

Check the all year stats with the same level of support. I'l get into this later

MarkieMark48
06-12-2018, 08:46 AM
Lebron teamed up with freaking Dwayne Wade when he was at his peak. Some people in PSD were calling lbj the best and Wade the second best player in the NBA. They also got another all star top 15 player in C.Bosh at the time. They had a lot of good role players, they even got Ray Allen from their only rival in the east.

Now all the people ******** on Durant are LBJ lovers. This is really insane. I **** on both LBJ and Durant. Actually LBJ has started this ****. Don't tell me Boston cause those guys were past their prime.

Ray Allen was coming off his highest PPG season average of his career, Garnett was basically a 22/13 guy leading the NBA in rebounding, and Pierce was 25/4/5. I hate this narrative that these guys were like 40 when they came together. They all were between 29-31. When Lebron went to Miami those guys were starting to fall of 3 years later when they were in their mid 30's, but not when they first came together in Boston.

nastynice
06-12-2018, 08:51 AM
Ray Allen was coming off his highest PPG season average of his career, Garnett was basically a 22/13 guy leading the NBA in rebounding, and Pierce was 25/4/5. I hate this narrative that these guys were like 40 when they came together. They all were between 29-31. When Lebron went to Miami those guys were starting to fall of 3 years later when they were in their mid 30's, but not when they first came together in Boston.

Ray Allen had kinda fallen off compared to what he was in Seattle, where dude was getting to the rack at will. He did remain an elite shooter tho. Garnett was mvp caliber when he first got to Boston

basketfan4life
06-12-2018, 09:25 AM
So the moves would be the same despite the massive difference in support? Just what kind of move would be ok if that's thecase

Teaming up with 2 other superstars to form a team that is above the rest of the league is a ***** move in my eyes. The team Durant went should be better, the point is they are both ***** moves.

For example if Durant went to washington to play with wall and beal and build a team around that to compete against Kyrie/Lbj/ love, and Golden State i would be perfectly fine.

For me to give an example for 2010 lbj i should look at the rosters at that time, which i won't but i am sure there are other good options out there.

MarkieMark48
06-12-2018, 09:28 AM
Ray Allen had kinda fallen off compared to what he was in Seattle, where dude was getting to the rack at will. He did remain an elite shooter tho. Garnett was mvp caliber when he first got to Boston

Right, but I mean when 3 guys like that come together production will come down, one could argue Ray Allen was coming off his best season statistically that last year in Seattle... Obviously athleticism wasn't what it was when he was at 20, but the production was still there.

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 09:31 AM
Then why didn't he do it? I don't think he would precisely because of Miami

Are you asking why LeBron didn't take a vet minimum deal to sign in LA or Boston? I think your second part is right, as they were clearly colluding to join each other long before that offseason, but the argument "competitive balance" and LeBron don't exist together lol. He's likely going to prove that for the third time this offseason, although now it's a continuing trend that is unavoidable if he wants to win another title.


Look up the definition of peak. I disagree with your statement on Boston , they didn't take the heat seriously ay all back then

Wade was at his best over a full season in 2008-09. So you think he was notably worse one year later? How fortunate to wipe away a great performance by Wade because Boston "didn't take them seriously". How about the entire 2010-11 season? Did Dallas and Boston take him seriously?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-celtics-vs-heat.html

This is "declining" Wade?

Is Curry declining right now?

FOXHOUND
06-12-2018, 09:49 AM
So the moves would be the same despite the massive difference in support? Just what kind of move would be ok if that's thecase

It's all completely circumstantial, you're never going to find two different offseason moves that are 1:1.

mngopher35
06-12-2018, 11:03 AM
1. Wade was probably the third best player in the nba around 2010. Consensus wise or whatever at least and my opinion as well. You can argue a spot maybe cause I love CP3 and am not 100% off memory but he was right there playing at an elite level. Now you could argue there were signs his game would decline quicker etc. but I doubt that's overly factored in. Bosh was considered top 15 I would say.

2. Boston wasn't ancient when they joined up and Rondo developing made them look tough still, 2010 finals was that 7 game Bos/LA series. Any mention of Heat forcing GS would start with Boston starting it etc. if you wanna ignore the details. They are all different moves but it was a chain reaction in a sense, it didn't start with the Heat though and they weren't even around anymore to compete with like Boston this was after the fact by years.

3. LA at the time had Kobe (top 2), Gasol (top 10), Bynum (up and coming top 5 or so Center) and Ron Artest (declining a bit but likely a top 10 SF). This was a team that wasn't drastically far off from talent in anything like GS to others. Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Gasol/Bosh/Bynum/Artest gives Miami the edge talent wise but LA has the star/depth over them.

4. Many pointed it out at the time but lack of depth on Miami as they started Anthony and washed up Bibby or young chalmers to go along with fit issues in general. This was a team being created not something in place already proven/capable etc. and outside of just those 3 they lacked elsewhere to start. This is why even though they did have the advantage with their top 3 and stuff the odds I have brought up plenty showed something closer to GS pre Durant in dominance. There were other great teams AND this Miami team had some flaws/was unproven.

5. What Lebron did was weak. I have said it plenty as have many many others who criticize KD. The thing is it wasn't to a level that would simply allow him to step back and let those around him carry if needed. We saw defer mode Lebron when he choked the 2011 finals away, they didn't win because he didn't dominate. We hadn't already literally see this core win a title/73 RS wins before dominating and being compared to all time great teams. It made it so that they weren't just matching up in the same way I showed with Miami/Lakers. They were blowing the talent out with two top 3-5 players and two all stars, FMVP as depth and already proven system/coach around them while being at the top of the league over the last 2 years (outside 3 finals games). That initial GS team was far closer to the heat with the lack of depth and more issues with their fit. GS to start each season is favorite over every other team combined and by a decent amount too (maybe that will finally change), Miami was right by other teams in a similar sense we have always seen. Thats the key to many and what most want to completely ignore. Lebron was weak because he gave himself an advantage many all time greats have had of joining with talent and taking on solid competition etc. his how of using FA was the biggest difference. Durant jumped onto a team that was already at the top/winning titles/setting records over the last 2 season which is not something we have ever seen before and there are more context issues that make the perception much worse too (blowing 3-1 lead). The level to which he stacked things is the biggest difference and that's what most long time NBA fans get.

6. As much as it wasn't part of the initial plan part of what got Lebron so much credit is that Wade did start to have health issues and fell off a bit. He was a great 2nd option still but not 3rd best player in the league or anything. The Thunder coming with Westy/Harden/KD/Ibaka also was huge as they had 3 stars competition type thing (think they were underdogs heading in). Spurs playoff runs and further falling off as well made the competition seem great and there were tons of memorable moments in this span. Think Boston game 6 at the garden. The end of game 6, Ray Allen shot and his game 7. All of this with him clearly dominating the league as MVP, FMVP, clear cut best player on his team and in the league etc. All of this also plays into why the Heat ended up a little bit more alright in people minds is he faced far more adversity along the way than many initially thought he would. That is part of what let his greatness shine through is overcoming those tough obstacles along the way individually when his team wasn't quite as good as expected. If Lebron chooses to go to Houston or something and really challenge GS in a great way it could actually start to turn things around but right now many just see exactly what was expected and a very boring two years of NBA title runs. Houston series had injuries, GS looking lazy throughout, and a very confusing end to game 4 and even play into game 5 where they just looked like crap and not playing their offense. It was almost like they were bored mid series, some even said scared. I think clearly as we saw in 2nd half's etc they knew when they turned it on they were gonna win (so long as they don't "choke" like that 4th quarter game 4). Either way CP3 being out and them winning is the most impressive thing on their resume since KD which just isn't the same as the above.

Jeffy25
06-12-2018, 11:17 AM
I'm sorry, this is complete bs, I already know you don't remember that off season, what stat you're basing this off of, I have no clue.

I'm not arguing Wade as the consensus #3 because of anything to do with Lebron and Durant, I'm doing it because before the big 3 formed that's what most people were saying. It's simply what it was. Approach it like that, don't approach it with some end goal in mind in this stupid lebron Durant debate

So I can't possibly remember that off-season, but you can remember what people were talking about at that time?

And not a stat, singular or otherwise.


2K11, not always perfect, did have LeBron, Kobe, and Wade as 97's as the top players in the game
Then Paul at 95, then Melo at 93, D. Williams at 92, Durant at 91 etc.

But I don't know how you can keep Durant out of the top 3, and I don't see the argument for Wade over Kobe (who you know I dislike). CP3, Dwight, Duncan, and plenty of others were right there in the top 5 mix as well, and no way would Wade just have that spot locked up. If we pull this back to top 5, I'd consent, there is plenty of argument there for that.

mngopher35
06-12-2018, 11:37 AM
So I can't possibly remember that off-season, but you can remember what people were talking about at that time?

And not a stat, singular or otherwise.


2K11, not always perfect, did have LeBron, Kobe, and Wade as 97's as the top players in the game
Then Paul at 95, then Melo at 93, D. Williams at 92, Durant at 91 etc.

But I don't know how you can keep Durant out of the top 3, and I don't see the argument for Wade over Kobe (who you know I dislike). CP3, Dwight, Duncan, and plenty of others were right there in the top 5 mix as well, and no way would Wade just have that spot locked up. If we pull this back to top 5, I'd consent, there is plenty of argument there for that.

PER/BPM would have had Wade as top 3 in certain stats from the season before they teamed up pretty sure

Ahriman
06-12-2018, 11:40 AM
1. Wade [...] 6.

Great post from 1. to 6.. Should wrap this thread up tbqh

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 12:37 PM
I'm glad someone else noticed haha. It amazes me because those same people whine all the time about haters/homers when they are literally the problem. See the post below yours as an example haha.



Ya even I tend to post in spurts, it can be hard seeing the same old same old. Bring up obvious points with actual logic they get completely ignored for the same back and forth convos where they just go off on whatever.

Yeah man, it's funny. I think trolls/homers are good for the community to balance things out but we need logical/rational people in here that can bring good debates. I tried to analyze Durant's comments but it quickly turned about Durant easy way out and then Durant fanboys or W's fans turned it into a Lebron easy way out.

Bottom-line is I'm so tired of saying the same **** over and over again that at this point I just call it dumb mother****ers. :laugh:

One phrase or just 3 numbers and a "-" is enough to see that both moves aren't even comparable. And that's just the beginning of the huge differences.

73-9

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 12:41 PM
HELLO PEOPLE ANYONE CAN READ ME 73 ****ING 9 ANYONE CAN SEE THIS? Seriously are you guys debating this? There's no point in debating the obvious. Those who can't see it are just... Wait for it... BLIND! MOTHER****ERS!

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 12:48 PM
1. Wade was probably the third best player in the nba around 2010. Consensus wise or whatever at least and my opinion as well. You can argue a spot maybe cause I love CP3 and am not 100% off memory but he was right there playing at an elite level. Now you could argue there were signs his game would decline quicker etc. but I doubt that's overly factored in. Bosh was considered top 15 I would say.

2. Boston wasn't ancient when they joined up and Rondo developing made them look tough still, 2010 finals was that 7 game Bos/LA series. Any mention of Heat forcing GS would start with Boston starting it etc. if you wanna ignore the details. They are all different moves but it was a chain reaction in a sense, it didn't start with the Heat though and they weren't even around anymore to compete with like Boston this was after the fact by years.

3. LA at the time had Kobe (top 2), Gasol (top 10), Bynum (up and coming top 5 or so Center) and Ron Artest (declining a bit but likely a top 10 SF). This was a team that wasn't drastically far off from talent in anything like GS to others. Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Gasol/Bosh/Bynum/Artest gives Miami the edge talent wise but LA has the star/depth over them.

4. Many pointed it out at the time but lack of depth on Miami as they started Anthony and washed up Bibby or young chalmers to go along with fit issues in general. This was a team being created not something in place already proven/capable etc. and outside of just those 3 they lacked elsewhere to start. This is why even though they did have the advantage with their top 3 and stuff the odds I have brought up plenty showed something closer to GS pre Durant in dominance. There were other great teams AND this Miami team had some flaws/was unproven.

5. What Lebron did was weak. I have said it plenty as have many many others who criticize KD. The thing is it wasn't to a level that would simply allow him to step back and let those around him carry if needed. We saw defer mode Lebron when he choked the 2011 finals away, they didn't win because he didn't dominate. We hadn't already literally see this core win a title/73 RS wins before dominating and being compared to all time great teams. It made it so that they weren't just matching up in the same way I showed with Miami/Lakers. They were blowing the talent out with two top 3-5 players and two all stars, FMVP as depth and already proven system/coach around them while being at the top of the league over the last 2 years (outside 3 finals games). That initial GS team was far closer to the heat with the lack of depth and more issues with their fit. GS to start each season is favorite over every other team combined and by a decent amount too (maybe that will finally change), Miami was right by other teams in a similar sense we have always seen. Thats the key to many and what most want to completely ignore. Lebron was weak because he gave himself an advantage many all time greats have had of joining with talent and taking on solid competition etc. his how of using FA was the biggest difference. Durant jumped onto a team that was already at the top/winning titles/setting records over the last 2 season which is not something we have ever seen before and there are more context issues that make the perception much worse too (blowing 3-1 lead). The level to which he stacked things is the biggest difference and that's what most long time NBA fans get.

6. As much as it wasn't part of the initial plan part of what got Lebron so much credit is that Wade did start to have health issues and fell off a bit. He was a great 2nd option still but not 3rd best player in the league or anything. The Thunder coming with Westy/Harden/KD/Ibaka also was huge as they had 3 stars competition type thing (think they were underdogs heading in). Spurs playoff runs and further falling off as well made the competition seem great and there were tons of memorable moments in this span. Think Boston game 6 at the garden. The end of game 6, Ray Allen shot and his game 7. All of this with him clearly dominating the league as MVP, FMVP, clear cut best player on his team and in the league etc. All of this also plays into why the Heat ended up a little bit more alright in people minds is he faced far more adversity along the way than many initially thought he would. That is part of what let his greatness shine through is overcoming those tough obstacles along the way individually when his team wasn't quite as good as expected. If Lebron chooses to go to Houston or something and really challenge GS in a great way it could actually start to turn things around but right now many just see exactly what was expected and a very boring two years of NBA title runs. Houston series had injuries, GS looking lazy throughout, and a very confusing end to game 4 and even play into game 5 where they just looked like crap and not playing their offense. It was almost like they were bored mid series, some even said scared. I think clearly as we saw in 2nd half's etc they knew when they turned it on they were gonna win (so long as they don't "choke" like that 4th quarter game 4). Either way CP3 being out and them winning is the most impressive thing on their resume since KD which just isn't the same as the above.

Dude we had ****ing Big Z starting at center, ****ing Erick Dampier started some time and the Warden and HEAT favorite *laugh* Joel Anthony. At point guard we had ****ing Arroyo, I'm from PR and he was my dude but come on... He was bad, same with Bibby and young Chalmers that wasn't that confortable with his role yet. Also Haslem was hurt early, etc... Once again this shouldn't be a discussion. Both moves are totally different. WAY WAY different.

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 12:53 PM
Kinda off topic but I was waiting for someone to post Kobe comments on Lebron "he has to figure out a way to win Finals" or something like that. I just cracked while reading it. That and the "killer mentality" myth is why we have so many idiots arguing that Lebron or other players don't have IT. But that's another convo.

Scoots
06-12-2018, 12:53 PM
Yeah man, it's funny. I think trolls/homers are good for the community to balance things out but we need logical/rational people in here that can bring good debates. I tried to analyze Durant's comments but it quickly turned about Durant easy way out and then Durant fanboys or W's fans turned it into a Lebron easy way out.

Bottom-line is I'm so tired of saying the same **** over and over again that at this point I just call it dumb mother****ers. :laugh:

One phrase or just 3 numbers and a "-" is enough to see that both moves aren't even comparable. And that's just the beginning of the huge differences.

73-9

You realize you just joined in the same debate that some of us (including apparently you) are tired of right?

The only real solution is to not join in. I know it's not always easy, I fail to not respond often too ... but I think it's the way to do it. Just don't join in the same old same old.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-12-2018, 01:18 PM
It's a joke that anyone tries to justify Durant's move. He joined the team he could not beat. He joined a team that just won 73 games and had made the finals in back to back years.

Arguing that Lebron did anything remotely as bad is ridiculous. What Lebron did wasn't actually that bad. It's how he did it that was the bad part with the whole Decision special on ESPN and then the pep rally. But leaving Cleveland at that time to go play with another superstar for the first time in his career was an understandable move.

I've said this before about Durant... he could have gone anywhere but where he went or Cleveland and nobody would have had any problem with it.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-12-2018, 01:23 PM
Kinda off topic but I was waiting for someone to post Kobe comments on Lebron "he has to figure out a way to win Finals" or something like that. I just cracked while reading it. That and the "killer mentality" myth is why we have so many idiots arguing that Lebron or other players don't have IT. But that's another convo.

How anyone can possible blame Lebron for losing to Golden State is laughable. Do these people even watch basketball? They had a chance to win a couple of tight games and just fell short, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. There was no way they were winning 4 games against that team.

I truly commend the Rockets for actually pushing Golden State to the brink, but IDK if that team is built to do it again. The Warriors destroyed the competitive balance of the league. How do you put any stock into their championships? It's not impressive unless they win at least 4 or 5 in a row, but we also have to see a team that actually can stack up to them in order to place an value in their championships.

FlashBolt
06-12-2018, 01:25 PM
It's a joke that anyone tries to justify Durant's move. He joined the team he could not beat. He joined a team that just won 73 games and had made the finals in back to back years.

Arguing that Lebron did anything remotely as bad is ridiculous. What Lebron did wasn't actually that bad. It's how he did it that was the bad part with the whole Decision special on ESPN and then the pep rally. But leaving Cleveland at that time to go play with another superstar for the first time in his career was an understandable move.

I've said this before about Durant... he could have gone anywhere but where he went or Cleveland and nobody would have had any problem with it.

You have to think about the person KD is to understand his decision.

1) Created a fake Twitter account to bash his former team.

2) Constantly tries to find validation.

3) Constantly makes himself a victim.

4) Doesn't want to be the leader of a team.

When you add four of those up, it would make sense as to why he joined the Warriors. He's a highly emotional individual who was not confident enough to lead a team to win a championship and he wanted to validate that he could win a championship by turning himself into a victim and blaming his former team as to why he needed to join the Warriors as the Warriors "moved" the ball. How KD thinks is relatateable to a serial killer.

FlashBolt
06-12-2018, 01:29 PM
Kobe has been taking shots at LeBron every chance he gets. Quite honestly, very pathetic from him. LeBron has nothing but respect for Kobe. Kobe was never better than prime LeBron and would be the 3rd best player in this series.. the hell is he talking about?

WestCoastSportz
06-12-2018, 01:33 PM
What he says makes sense, but I think people are taking it in the wrong context. When you have a bunch of scrubs on your team and you're a pretty good player, you're going to be look even better than you are. The Warriors saw that with Monta Ellis. People were talking about him being this superstar player, yet the Warriors traded him and he hasn't done much since and the Warriors have made the playoffs ever since and have three rings. Greatness isn't just the ability to put up gaudy numbers, but its about doing things that helps your team win. Jason Kidd will probably be in the Hall of Fame and he wasn't a great scorer. Michael Jordan not only scored, but was an underrated passer and a great defender. He allowed other people to shine like a Dennis Rodman or a Pippen.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-12-2018, 01:33 PM
Lol yeah I remember before the finals Kobe posted a tweet about the Lebron vs MJ debate and at the end Kobe added a hashtag insinuating that he is in that conversation too.

Saddletramp
06-12-2018, 02:15 PM
It's not hard to comprehend the mindset of people who would even think to have something like a FA pep rally in a professional sports league. Or do you think that someone who decided to make his own FA decision a TV spectacle, only adding the charity aspect in the 11th hour because they were getting killed on PR, had nothing to do with the pep rally idea?

You think they were following a script in Miami when they said that stuff? No, they were just boasting on an insane level the league had never seen before. Wade and Bosh were also filming when they were going on their FA meetings but it just never saw the light of day, to my knowledge. The three of them were orchestrating from 2008 and did some really pathetic and petty stuff in the process, beyond basketball reasons.

What you're saying would be like saying ignore what Durant said in his burner account tweets because they were burner accounts tweets. That's what people say on burner account tweets, he was just stirring the pot duuuuh. :laugh2:

The **** are you talking about? If a pep rally isnít scripted then itís ďboasting on an insane level the league had never seen beforeĒ? Of course. THATíS WHAT YOU DO AT A GOD DAMN PEP RALLY.


And comparing any of that to the burner accounts is ****ing stupid. This whole crying a river about a pep rally is ****ing stupid.

Saddletramp
06-12-2018, 02:25 PM
1. Wade was probably the third best player in the nba around 2010. Consensus wise or whatever at least and my opinion as well. You can argue a spot maybe cause I love CP3 and am not 100% off memory but he was right there playing at an elite level. Now you could argue there were signs his game would decline quicker etc. but I doubt that's overly factored in. Bosh was considered top 15 I would say.

2. Boston wasn't ancient when they joined up and Rondo developing made them look tough still, 2010 finals was that 7 game Bos/LA series. Any mention of Heat forcing GS would start with Boston starting it etc. if you wanna ignore the details. They are all different moves but it was a chain reaction in a sense, it didn't start with the Heat though and they weren't even around anymore to compete with like Boston this was after the fact by years.

3. LA at the time had Kobe (top 2), Gasol (top 10), Bynum (up and coming top 5 or so Center) and Ron Artest (declining a bit but likely a top 10 SF). This was a team that wasn't drastically far off from talent in anything like GS to others. Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Gasol/Bosh/Bynum/Artest gives Miami the edge talent wise but LA has the star/depth over them.

4. Many pointed it out at the time but lack of depth on Miami as they started Anthony and washed up Bibby or young chalmers to go along with fit issues in general. This was a team being created not something in place already proven/capable etc. and outside of just those 3 they lacked elsewhere to start. This is why even though they did have the advantage with their top 3 and stuff the odds I have brought up plenty showed something closer to GS pre Durant in dominance. There were other great teams AND this Miami team had some flaws/was unproven.

5. What Lebron did was weak. I have said it plenty as have many many others who criticize KD. The thing is it wasn't to a level that would simply allow him to step back and let those around him carry if needed. We saw defer mode Lebron when he choked the 2011 finals away, they didn't win because he didn't dominate. We hadn't already literally see this core win a title/73 RS wins before dominating and being compared to all time great teams. It made it so that they weren't just matching up in the same way I showed with Miami/Lakers. They were blowing the talent out with two top 3-5 players and two all stars, FMVP as depth and already proven system/coach around them while being at the top of the league over the last 2 years (outside 3 finals games). That initial GS team was far closer to the heat with the lack of depth and more issues with their fit. GS to start each season is favorite over every other team combined and by a decent amount too (maybe that will finally change), Miami was right by other teams in a similar sense we have always seen. Thats the key to many and what most want to completely ignore. Lebron was weak because he gave himself an advantage many all time greats have had of joining with talent and taking on solid competition etc. his how of using FA was the biggest difference. Durant jumped onto a team that was already at the top/winning titles/setting records over the last 2 season which is not something we have ever seen before and there are more context issues that make the perception much worse too (blowing 3-1 lead). The level to which he stacked things is the biggest difference and that's what most long time NBA fans get.

6. As much as it wasn't part of the initial plan part of what got Lebron so much credit is that Wade did start to have health issues and fell off a bit. He was a great 2nd option still but not 3rd best player in the league or anything. The Thunder coming with Westy/Harden/KD/Ibaka also was huge as they had 3 stars competition type thing (think they were underdogs heading in). Spurs playoff runs and further falling off as well made the competition seem great and there were tons of memorable moments in this span. Think Boston game 6 at the garden. The end of game 6, Ray Allen shot and his game 7. All of this with him clearly dominating the league as MVP, FMVP, clear cut best player on his team and in the league etc. All of this also plays into why the Heat ended up a little bit more alright in people minds is he faced far more adversity along the way than many initially thought he would. That is part of what let his greatness shine through is overcoming those tough obstacles along the way individually when his team wasn't quite as good as expected. If Lebron chooses to go to Houston or something and really challenge GS in a great way it could actually start to turn things around but right now many just see exactly what was expected and a very boring two years of NBA title runs. Houston series had injuries, GS looking lazy throughout, and a very confusing end to game 4 and even play into game 5 where they just looked like crap and not playing their offense. It was almost like they were bored mid series, some even said scared. I think clearly as we saw in 2nd half's etc they knew when they turned it on they were gonna win (so long as they don't "choke" like that 4th quarter game 4). Either way CP3 being out and them winning is the most impressive thing on their resume since KD which just isn't the same as the above.

Great post.

Saddletramp
06-12-2018, 02:29 PM
It's a joke that anyone tries to justify Durant's move. He joined the team he could not beat. He joined a team that just won 73 games and had made the finals in back to back years.

Arguing that Lebron did anything remotely as bad is ridiculous. What Lebron did wasn't actually that bad. It's how he did it that was the bad part with the whole Decision special on ESPN and then the pep rally. But leaving Cleveland at that time to go play with another superstar for the first time in his career was an understandable move.

I've said this before about Durant... he could have gone anywhere but where he went or Cleveland and nobody would have had any problem with it.

Iíve said the same thing.

Jeffy25
06-12-2018, 03:32 PM
I wanted Durant to go to Boston that summer.


It would have cost them Horford probably

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 04:16 PM
You realize you just joined in the same debate that some of us (including apparently you) are tired of right?

The only real solution is to not join in. I know it's not always easy, I fail to not respond often too ... but I think it's the way to do it. Just don't join in the same old same old.

You are right, but I'm here to debate. Obviously there's no logic to debate so what I meant is that I'm tired of giving reasons and well thought logical posts that take some time to make. Writing that response to mngop and then the other posts wasn't really hard so I'm ok with that. But you won't catch me trying to explain nasty or others what's the difference because clearly others have done it and I'm not wasting my time there.

FlashBolt
06-12-2018, 04:23 PM
I wanted Durant to go to Boston that summer.


It would have cost them Horford probably

Many teams were open for KD that season. He would have made many teams a top three contender but he chose to eliminate all competition by joining the Warriors. OKC fans weren't mad he left our team.. we were upset he chose the Warriors - who many fans felt we should have won. Had he went to Miami, Washington, or any other team not named Warriors or Cleveland, I felt most OKC fans would have made a tribute video for him and thanking his contributions to our team. Sadly, that was not the case.

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 04:34 PM
How anyone can possible blame Lebron for losing to Golden State is laughable. Do these people even watch basketball? They had a chance to win a couple of tight games and just fell short, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. There was no way they were winning 4 games against that team.

I truly commend the Rockets for actually pushing Golden State to the brink, but IDK if that team is built to do it again. The Warriors destroyed the competitive balance of the league. How do you put any stock into their championships? It's not impressive unless they win at least 4 or 5 in a row, but we also have to see a team that actually can stack up to them in order to place an value in their championships.

Yeah man, I can search the whole topic I saw it on Twitter and was actually trending haha. Apparently it was a video or a program that had some pros discussing the Finals and they talked about Lebron, everyone including Billups, IT (the OG) and some others said "you have to see who he has played against, he wasn't the favorite in the majority of the Finals he lost, blah blah blah" and then comes Kobe with his usual egomaniac self. "He has to figure out a way to win" ummmm yeah, that will work in a perfect world Kobe. In a world where you try hard and all your dreams come true, but in this world you are trying hard and the other 4 all-stars are also trying hard to win and have way more talent. His comments were just stupid haha.

Here it is;
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780523-kobe-bryant-nba-greats-get-lathered-about-lebrons-legacy


Q: B/R: LeBron has three rings. He's been to more Finals than any player in modern times. But he's 3-6 after this series. Does that matter to his legacy?

A's: Paul Pierce: When you're talking about being the greatest, yes. You're already in the top five. But we're talking about being at the top of the throne, the top of the mountain; yes, that number does matter when you're talking that.

Isiah Thomas: I think it all matters. You also have to take into account again the teams that he's lost to. He's been to nine Finals, and in seven of the Finals his team has been the underdog.

Chauncey Billups: I'm not charging LeBron for some of those losses in the Finals. He wasn't the favorite every time. He's rarely the favorite in the Finals. So how can you expect him to really win? It's the NBA Finals. It's the two best teams in the world.

Dennis Scott: The 3-6 [record], I don't buy into it, because Jerry West is the logo. And he was 1-8 in the Finals. And we still revere him as Mr. Clutch, right? I want to let LeBron finish doing what he's doing.

Jon Barry: I think it's very unfair to put it solely on LeBron James, six Finals losses. In 2011, I think he had a lot to do with that [loss]. But all the other ones, he got a lot of inferior teams to the NBA Finals. It's not his fault that the Eastern Conference was as weak as it was.

Vince Carter: At the end of the day, he's given himself an opportunity to win nine times. Everybody can't say that. I salute him. That's an unbelievable feat.

Kobe Bryant: All I thought about as a kid personally was winning championships. Thatís all I cared about. That's how I valued Michael. That's how I valued [Larry] Bird. That's how I valued Magic [Johnson]. It was just winning championships. Now, everybody's going to value things differently, which is fine. I'm just telling you how I value mine.

If I'm Bron, you got to figure out a way to win. It's not about narrative. You want to win championships, you just gotta figure it out.

Q: B/R: How should we weigh a star's supporting cast? Does LeBron get credit for carrying Jordan Clarkson and JR Smith this far, or penalized for losing with them? We saw how the role players blew Game 1 of the series.

A's: Carter: That's the unfortunate situations and arguments that go against him. He got teams there that...they shouldn't be here. And they are.

Pierce: Kevin Love is supposed to be a second All-Star, hasn't really played like an All-Star in the playoffs. He has spot games here and there. But then after that, it's like, 'Who can you depend on?'

Barry: He can't be penalized for having a team overachieve and then playing as great as he's playing.

Pierce: When you're aiming for greatness, there's gonna be some nitpicking going on.

Bryant: Michael gave me some really good advice after the '08 Finals: 'You got all the tools. You gotta figure out how to get these guys to that next level to win that championship.' Going into the 2010 series, I said, 'Listen, Boston, they got Ray Allen, they got Paul Pierce, they got [Kevin] Garnett, they got Sheed [Wallace], the talent is there. They're stacked.' That was the first superteam. [Michael] kind of heard me lament about it, and he just goes, 'Yeah, well, it is what it is; you gotta figure it out. There's no other alternative.' And that's the challenge LeBron has. You have pieces that you have to try to figure out how to work with. Excuses don't work right now. Ö

It has everything to do with how you build the team, from an emotional level. How do you motivate them? Ö Leadership is not making guys better by just throwing them the ball. That's not what it is. It's about the influence that you have on them to reach their full potential. And some of it's not pretty. Some of it's challenging, some of it's confrontational. Some of it's pat on the back. But it's finding that balance, so now when you show up to play a Golden State or a Boston, your guys feel like you have the confidence to take on more.

That last one is the stupidest of them all. LMAO. He's just all about himself, he compares Boston Big Three in 2010 to the Warriors. And he acts like if he didn't had Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Metta, Jackson and other great veterans around him. In fact Gasol and Artest saved him a couple of times. He's almost taking all the credit "oh yeah I motivated them, I made them better emotionally" I'm sure JR would have defended better with Kobe motivating him and Green would become a better 3 point shooter.

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 04:40 PM
Also another interesting topic I saw was KD saying that he would likely retire at 35 years old. Five seasons from now.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23761997/warriors-kevin-durant-picture-retiring-35

And while there's nothing wrong with doing the intelligent thing and get your money I do see something wrong with the whole GOAT convo, he clearly doesn't care about that. He won a ring, won some FMVP and is happy with that. Maybe he wins some more rings and FMVP before 35yo and he'll be happy and ready to retire. Meanwhile Lebron wants to keep playing maybe until his son reaches the NBA. :laugh:

FlashBolt
06-12-2018, 05:08 PM
Yeah man, I can search the whole topic I saw it on Twitter and was actually trending haha. Apparently it was a video or a program that had some pros discussing the Finals and they talked about Lebron, everyone including Billups, IT (the OG) and some others said "you have to see who he has played against, he wasn't the favorite in the majority of the Finals he lost, blah blah blah" and then comes Kobe with his usual egomaniac self. "He has to figure out a way to win" ummmm yeah, that will work in a perfect world Kobe. In a world where you try hard and all your dreams come true, but in this world you are trying hard and the other 4 all-stars are also trying hard to win and have way more talent. His comments were just stupid haha.

Here it is;
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780523-kobe-bryant-nba-greats-get-lathered-about-lebrons-legacy



That last one is the stupidest of them all. LMAO. He's just all about himself, he compares Boston Big Three in 2010 to the Warriors. And he acts like if he didn't had Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Metta, Jackson and other great veterans around him. In fact Gasol and Artest saved him a couple of times. He's almost taking all the credit "oh yeah I motivated them, I made them better emotionally" I'm sure JR would have defended better with Kobe motivating him and Green would become a better 3 point shooter.

He won't retire without trying to convince everyone he's still ahead of LeBron because let's face it, LeBron - not Jordan, is Kobe's greatest competitor. For LeBron, though, that isn't the case. LeBron's greatest foe has been many different players and that's simply because Kobe isn't the best player he's played against. And I'm sorry but if Kobe Bryant truly thinks LeBron giving the ball more to Jordan Clarkson, J.R. Smith, Rodney Hood, and Jeff Green would lead to better basketball, he's simply just biased. We've seen what happens when LeBron is on the bench and these guys are asked to step up - they don't step up. Cavs lose a lead or the lead increases and LeBron has to come in and clean the mess. Kobe Bryant, in short, is simply upset the NBA world has brushed him aside. He's going to have to get used to it because he's not relevant anymore. I don't see ESPN, FOX, or any sports media ever mentioning Kobe close to the amount of times they mention LeBron so I'm sure Kobe is somewhat jealous.


Also another interesting topic I saw was KD saying that he would likely retire at 35 years old. Five seasons from now.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23761997/warriors-kevin-durant-picture-retiring-35

And while there's nothing wrong with doing the intelligent thing and get your money I do see something wrong with the whole GOAT convo, he clearly doesn't care about that. He won a ring, won some FMVP and is happy with that. Maybe he wins some more rings and FMVP before 35yo and he'll be happy and ready to retire. Meanwhile Lebron wants to keep playing maybe until his son reaches the NBA. :laugh:

Nothing wrong with retiring at age 35. You know what the problem is? I don't think the rings were as fulfilling as he initially believed. I really hope the guy takes his talents to his own team to create/join another team to put them over because he can win six rings but I will never put him in the top five discussion because I know every single one of the top five players would destroy if they had half the amount of help KD has had in the Warriors and heck, even OKC.

CHANGO
06-12-2018, 05:20 PM
He won't retire without trying to convince everyone he's still ahead of LeBron because let's face it, LeBron - not Jordan, is Kobe's greatest competitor. For LeBron, though, that isn't the case. LeBron's greatest foe has been many different players and that's simply because Kobe isn't the best player he's played against. And I'm sorry but if Kobe Bryant truly thinks LeBron giving the ball more to Jordan Clarkson, J.R. Smith, Rodney Hood, and Jeff Green would lead to better basketball, he's simply just biased. We've seen what happens when LeBron is on the bench and these guys are asked to step up - they don't step up. Cavs lose a lead or the lead increases and LeBron has to come in and clean the mess. Kobe Bryant, in short, is simply upset the NBA world has brushed him aside. He's going to have to get used to it because he's not relevant anymore. I don't see ESPN, FOX, or any sports media ever mentioning Kobe close to the amount of times they mention LeBron so I'm sure Kobe is somewhat jealous.



Nothing wrong with retiring at age 35. You know what the problem is? I don't think the rings were as fulfilling as he initially believed. I really hope the guy takes his talents to his own team to create/join another team to put them over because he can win six rings but I will never put him in the top five discussion because I know every single one of the top five players would destroy if they had half the amount of help KD has had in the Warriors and heck, even OKC.

I agree, that's why I said it's the smart thing to do. But for him if he wants to be in the GOAT convo I don't think 5 more years of NBA and 16 season played will do it. Forget the move, the team he joined, how he won the rings. 5 more years of NBA scoring 2,000 points in each season (that is being generous and assuming he plays close to 75 games) he will have 31k points his biggest competition will always be Lebron due to eras and times facing each other and Lebron right now at 31k is still going strong (he scored the most points he scored in a season this year since 2010 or so) so he can finish easily at 37k, 40k depending on how many more seasons he plays.

To me he doesn't care about that, he already said it and while that might be a lie and he can't sleep at nights because of the decision he made; if he does retire at 35 it will be easier to negate his GOAT resume or Top 5-10 resume.

FlashBolt
06-12-2018, 05:30 PM
I agree, that's why I said it's the smart thing to do. But for him if he wants to be in the GOAT convo I don't think 5 more years of NBA and 16 season played will do it. Forget the move, the team he joined, how he won the rings. 5 more years of NBA scoring 2,000 points in each season (that is being generous and assuming he plays close to 75 games) he will have 31k points his biggest competition will always be Lebron due to eras and times facing each other and Lebron right now at 31k is still going strong (he scored the most points he scored in a season this year since 2010 or so) so he can finish easily at 37k, 40k depending on how many more seasons he plays.

To me he doesn't care about that, he already said it and while that might be a lie and he can't sleep at nights because of the decision he made; if he does retire at 35 it will be easier to negate his GOAT resume or Top 5-10 resume.

I want to see KD and LeBron create something special in the Lakers. I can see them winning at least three rings and putting themselves as the #1/#3 GOAT's in NBA history. Then add the fact that both players likely can past KAJ's scoring record, no doubt I would put KD at #3 and leBron at #1.

Chronz
06-12-2018, 06:27 PM
Teaming up with 2 other superstars to form a team that is above the rest of the league is a ***** move in my eyes. The team Durant went should be better, the point is they are both ***** moves.

For example if Durant went to washington to play with wall and beal and build a team around that to compete against Kyrie/Lbj/ love, and Golden State i would be perfectly fine.

For me to give an example for 2010 lbj i should look at the rosters at that time, which i won't but i am sure there are other good options out there.
Which teams, if he joins Dallas, do they not win the title?

Chronz
06-12-2018, 06:30 PM
It's all completely circumstantial, you're never going to find two different offseason moves that are 1:1.

Yes, the circumstantial aspects are what I'm seeking . If we can never find the 1:1 then it should be beyond obvious why joining a ready made champ +history setter is far different than what came about in Miami

nastynice
06-12-2018, 06:44 PM
lmao, this same **** is still going on..?

Do people view Kevin love in Cleveland as highly as they did in Minny? As far as kd's original comment, there's your answer right there..

Chronz
06-12-2018, 06:50 PM
Are you asking why LeBron didn't take a vet minimum deal to sign in LA or Boston?
No, I'm saying if he found his way there, be it by any means necessary, i'l leave that to you but this is my hypothetical considering the cap explosion changing the game for a coincidental blip. Joining those two elite contenders is FAR different than creating a NEW contender to take them down. It's really that simple.




I think your second part is right, as they were clearly colluding to join each other long before that offseason
That's a non differentiating factor considering collusion has been a part of the game since forever. There are rumors that the Dubs were wooing KD amidst his choke job against them ffs. KG himself wasn't a free agent but he went from saying no to being traded to the celtics, then 1 ray Allen trade later being there himself.



but the argument "competitive balance" and LeBron don't exist together lol. He's likely going to prove that for the third time this offseason, although now it's a continuing trend that is unavoidable if he wants to win another title.

You've contradicted yourself here. Bron joining a team with a reasonable shot at beating the warriors HELPS competitive balance. It's this nuance in context that you guys miss out on. Bron JOINING the Dubs would be far closer in proximity to your point.



Wade was at his best over a full season in 2008-09. So you think he was notably worse one year later?
He was factually less productive, especially given the team context. Focus on facts instead of straws and you'll understand the difference between peak and prime.



How fortunate to wipe away a great performance by Wade because Boston "didn't take them seriously".

Nah, just a result of endless research on the matter.



How about the entire 2010-11 season? Did Dallas and Boston take him seriously?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-celtics-vs-heat.html

The season where the decline continued for a 30 year old with an athletically dependent style who's already suffered numerous franchise altering injuries. Yeah, I'd say that it's safe to say his "peak'(because " " quotations and literal words matter) was behind him and it was proven true by all objective barometers.



This is "declining" Wade?
Yes



Is Curry declining right now?
Show me the similarities between someone who hasn't won and was statistically declining before the eventual union vs a 2 time mvp (once unanimous) champion and record setting team. Really because if those 2 defections are the same, I'd love to see an example where you actually approve.

Chronz
06-12-2018, 06:53 PM
Ray Allen had kinda fallen off compared to what he was in Seattle, where dude was getting to the rack at will. He did remain an elite shooter tho. Garnett was mvp caliber when he first got to Boston

It's about role too tho, there's a reason he clashed with rondo. Same reason why he looked better with bron in Miami compared to his final celtics days

Chronz
06-12-2018, 07:06 PM
1. Wade was probably the third best player in the nba around 2010. Consensus wise or whatever at least and my opinion as well. You can argue a spot maybe cause I love CP3 and am not 100% off memory but he was right there playing at an elite level. Now you could argue there were signs his game would decline quicker etc. but I doubt that's overly factored in. Bosh was considered top 15 I would say.

2. Boston wasn't ancient when they joined up and Rondo developing made them look tough still, 2010 finals was that 7 game Bos/LA series. Any mention of Heat forcing GS would start with Boston starting it etc. if you wanna ignore the details. They are all different moves but it was a chain reaction in a sense, it didn't start with the Heat though and they weren't even around anymore to compete with like Boston this was after the fact by years.

3. LA at the time had Kobe (top 2), Gasol (top 10), Bynum (up and coming top 5 or so Center) and Ron Artest (declining a bit but likely a top 10 SF). This was a team that wasn't drastically far off from talent in anything like GS to others. Lebron/Kobe/Wade/Gasol/Bosh/Bynum/Artest gives Miami the edge talent wise but LA has the star/depth over them.

4. Many pointed it out at the time but lack of depth on Miami as they started Anthony and washed up Bibby or young chalmers to go along with fit issues in general. This was a team being created not something in place already proven/capable etc. and outside of just those 3 they lacked elsewhere to start. This is why even though they did have the advantage with their top 3 and stuff the odds I have brought up plenty showed something closer to GS pre Durant in dominance. There were other great teams AND this Miami team had some flaws/was unproven.

5. What Lebron did was weak. I have said it plenty as have many many others who criticize KD. The thing is it wasn't to a level that would simply allow him to step back and let those around him carry if needed. We saw defer mode Lebron when he choked the 2011 finals away, they didn't win because he didn't dominate. We hadn't already literally see this core win a title/73 RS wins before dominating and being compared to all time great teams. It made it so that they weren't just matching up in the same way I showed with Miami/Lakers. They were blowing the talent out with two top 3-5 players and two all stars, FMVP as depth and already proven system/coach around them while being at the top of the league over the last 2 years (outside 3 finals games). That initial GS team was far closer to the heat with the lack of depth and more issues with their fit. GS to start each season is favorite over every other team combined and by a decent amount too (maybe that will finally change), Miami was right by other teams in a similar sense we have always seen. Thats the key to many and what most want to completely ignore. Lebron was weak because he gave himself an advantage many all time greats have had of joining with talent and taking on solid competition etc. his how of using FA was the biggest difference. Durant jumped onto a team that was already at the top/winning titles/setting records over the last 2 season which is not something we have ever seen before and there are more context issues that make the perception much worse too (blowing 3-1 lead). The level to which he stacked things is the biggest difference and that's what most long time NBA fans get.

6. As much as it wasn't part of the initial plan part of what got Lebron so much credit is that Wade did start to have health issues and fell off a bit. He was a great 2nd option still but not 3rd best player in the league or anything. The Thunder coming with Westy/Harden/KD/Ibaka also was huge as they had 3 stars competition type thing (think they were underdogs heading in). Spurs playoff runs and further falling off as well made the competition seem great and there were tons of memorable moments in this span. Think Boston game 6 at the garden. The end of game 6, Ray Allen shot and his game 7. All of this with him clearly dominating the league as MVP, FMVP, clear cut best player on his team and in the league etc. All of this also plays into why the Heat ended up a little bit more alright in people minds is he faced far more adversity along the way than many initially thought he would. That is part of what let his greatness shine through is overcoming those tough obstacles along the way individually when his team wasn't quite as good as expected. If Lebron chooses to go to Houston or something and really challenge GS in a great way it could actually start to turn things around but right now many just see exactly what was expected and a very boring two years of NBA title runs. Houston series had injuries, GS looking lazy throughout, and a very confusing end to game 4 and even play into game 5 where they just looked like crap and not playing their offense. It was almost like they were bored mid series, some even said scared. I think clearly as we saw in 2nd half's etc they knew when they turned it on they were gonna win (so long as they don't "choke" like that 4th quarter game 4). Either way CP3 being out and them winning is the most impressive thing on their resume since KD which just isn't the same as the above.

1 beyond obvious wade was not going to sustain his already declining production given his style and age. Haven't looked at the list but idc where you rank him, he's just one player.

2. Replace Rondo with bron, then you have a team on par talent wise


3. Kobe had the best frontcourt in the league and a 3nD pg with the 6moy +Phil. Boston had 3 or 4 hofers.

4. You forgot Erick dampier. It's this simple, you take kd or bron off either team, there's a DRASTIC difference in success.


Where could have bron gone that was fair?

Dunkapolooza
06-12-2018, 11:14 PM
Seriously there are people who think that there have been teams with equal talent to these warriors? Lol for real? Lol

FlashBolt
06-13-2018, 12:27 AM
Seriously there are people who think that there have been teams with equal talent to these warriors? Lol for real? Lol

Magic's Lakers came close but really, not in the modern era.

Kareem
Magic
Worthy
Scott
A.C. Green

That was very talented but they also dealt with a tonful in Bird's Celtics as well.

Dunkapolooza
06-13-2018, 01:45 AM
Yeah and I mean that's a great three but green and Scott vs igu and Draymond? Naw.

TO Rapz
06-13-2018, 02:13 AM
KD a boss man

Dunkapolooza
06-13-2018, 02:31 AM
He ain't magic or probably even Kareem by the show time days but he's way too good to be joining a 70 win squad. Mentally he's weak and the reason he never won without the super warriors was because of the same reason he joined that team in the first place. Mental toughness and belief in what he's doing.

To me it's like if Jordan quit the bulls to join the Pistons.

LOb0
06-13-2018, 03:20 AM
He ain't magic or probably even Kareem by the show time days but he's way too good to be joining a 70 win squad. Mentally he's weak and the reason he never won without the super warriors was because of the same reason he joined that team in the first place. Mental toughness and belief in what he's doing.

To me it's like if Jordan quit the bulls to join the Pistons.



I think we're all just holding him too high as a player. Comparing him to Jordan is laughable. He had chances to win, he's simply not wired that way, or good enough to do it without 70+ win help.

The rage needs to stop. History will always remember him as the guy that won on a team where he wasn't really needed. That money spent else where would've got GS more than enough to win the last 2 titles.

My only gripe at this point is how predictable the league is currently.

basketfan4life
06-13-2018, 09:15 AM
May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron. LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.

CHANGO
06-13-2018, 08:18 PM
May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron. LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.

I don't know, the Warriors were great before Durant joined. Forget the 73-9 record, they were great and one of the things people forget is how good their bench was. Iggy, Barbosa, Livingston (still killing it with them), Mo Buckets, that bench combined with one of the "Big Three" was pretty good. And with KD that's one of the things they gave up.

CHANGO
06-13-2018, 08:21 PM
I want to see KD and LeBron create something special in the Lakers. I can see them winning at least three rings and putting themselves as the #1/#3 GOAT's in NBA history. Then add the fact that both players likely can past KAJ's scoring record, no doubt I would put KD at #3 and leBron at #1.

I don't see Durant ever being Top 5. He had a chance with the Thunder but this move just takes away some of his accolades. The only way I can see his legacy take a good turn is if he goes to the Thunder or another team with a smaller superstar compared to him and wins while being the man and leader of the team. I never saw him as a leader in OKC and now in GSW he is less of that. In OKC he also choked a couple of times while being surrounded with good talent.

I would say Top 7-15.

FOXHOUND
06-13-2018, 10:42 PM
Yes, the circumstantial aspects are what I'm seeking . If we can never find the 1:1 then it should be beyond obvious why joining a ready made champ +history setter is far different than what came about in Miami

And there are easy ways to quantify that, like the fact that Miami only won 2 rings in 4 years where as the Warriors with Durant have already matched that in 2. Rings are a team achievement, not an individual. If we can accept the fact and praise players with only 1 or zero rings due to team cirumstance then we should be able to understand that players who end up with 3+ rings only do so from being on incredibly talented teams for many years. That goes for every single one of them, including LeBron who put himself in that position through FA twice.

The mindset is the key to the comparison, and neither of them remotely went for the "hard" route. Miami completely trumped the Lakers, the Celtics and the rest of the NBA in talent and they thought they were easily going to win 7+ rings, words from their own mouths. There was no where Durant could have went where they would have trumped Golden State and Cleveland in talent and create that kind of advantage, other than Golden State itself, where as LeBron had at least one other option to do that not involving Wade in Chicago. Of course, then Wade, Bosh and Joe Johnson could have formed in Miami and could have possibly beaten LeBron's Bulls. We couldn't have that, right?

It's that simple, from a circumstantial standpoint.

FOXHOUND
06-13-2018, 11:10 PM
No, I'm saying if he found his way there, be it by any means necessary, i'l leave that to you but this is my hypothetical considering the cap explosion changing the game for a coincidental blip. Joining those two elite contenders is FAR different than creating a NEW contender to take them down. It's really that simple.

Again, completely circumstantial scenarios. I basically responded to this already in my previous post.



That's a non differentiating factor considering collusion has been a part of the game since forever. There are rumors that the Dubs were wooing KD amidst his choke job against them ffs. KG himself wasn't a free agent but he went from saying no to being traded to the celtics, then 1 ray Allen trade later being there himself.

That's not remotely the same thing as it's been well documented that they started planning from at least the 2008 Olympics, years before their FA. Part of the reason why Miami lacked talented around Wade those years is because Riley was focused on cap space for 2010 instead of building a contender. Kind of a risky play to waste years of Wade's prime, but not so much when you have the ole wink wink deal, eh? Oh, how they "broke" the NBA with their scheming lol.


You've contradicted yourself here. Bron joining a team with a reasonable shot at beating the warriors HELPS competitive balance. It's this nuance in context that you guys miss out on. Bron JOINING the Dubs would be far closer in proximity to your point.

No, I acknowledged that him doing it this time would be much different than 2010 and 2014, while still highlighting that this trend is something he started. Houston took them to 7, there is already a team that had a reasonable shot at beating the Warriors. Just because it wasn't a team with LeBron on it doesn't mean they don't exist.


He was factually less productive, especially given the team context. Focus on facts instead of straws and you'll understand the difference between peak and prime.

You're really going to try and continue this nonsense? You really don't understand that statistical anomalies throughout a players career are a thing? Has LeBron been declining as a scorer since he was 25 because he averaged 29.7 PPG that season and hasn't even touched 28 PPG since? Was LeBron in full decline his first two years in Cleveland due to his statistical drops and clear shooting drop, and now is no longer in decline the last two years?

No, Dwyane Wade was not declining at age 28/29 and before LeBron even got there, at least not by any traditional sense of how the word is used in sports. He was still very much in his prime.


The season where the decline continued for a 30 year old with an athletically dependent style who's already suffered numerous franchise altering injuries. Yeah, I'd say that it's safe to say his "peak'(because " " quotations and literal words matter) was behind him and it was proven true by all objective barometers.

And he was still one of the top 3 players in the NBA when LeBron got there, so this is completely moot. He had two of the best playoff series of his career in 2010-11. Saying he had "numerous franchise altering injuries" as if it altered his play or anything is ridiculous. He had the clear best season of his career well after those injuries. Try harder.


Show me the similarities between someone who hasn't won and was statistically declining before the eventual union vs a 2 time mvp (once unanimous) champion and record setting team. Really because if those 2 defections are the same, I'd love to see an example where you actually approve.

Wade didn't win? Wade won a Finals with one of the most dominant performances ever before LeBron even got to one. :laugh2:

The best part of all of this nonsense is you guys living in a world where the last two postseasons didn't happen. The Warriors don't beat the Cavs in the 2017 Finals and they don't beat the Rockets in the 2018 WCF without Kevin Durant. They would still only have one ring if he never went there, and if it wasn't for Kyrie and Love being hurt in 2015 then they likely have zero.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201806060CLE.html

This game single handily crushed the debate that Kevin Durant "coasts to Finals victories" and that they can win without him doing much. It's exactly the kind of stuff that we eventually saw from LeBron in Miami that crushed the same exact debate lobbied against him after The Decision. I predicted that this could easily happen here before last years postseason and it's not surprising to see people holding on to that narrative for dear life just as some held onto it for LeBron.

Move on with your lives, or just take a break from the NBA for a bit if Durant dominating is that upsetting for you. :laugh2:

nastynice
06-14-2018, 02:09 AM
May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron. LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.

Pretty much this. Golden state was a great team before kd, no doubt, but not too well built for the playoffs. That team wouldn't be a given to beat numerous other teams in the league, including these rockets. KD is what makes us a super team. Given our 2016 post season, there was clear room for improvement, we picked up the perfect fit, and now have the most dominant super team in the super team era. Of course there is irony in out super teaming the one who started the super team movement.. but that could change this summer...

Saddletramp
06-14-2018, 02:19 AM
They were a super team before (some were saying they were on par with Jordanís Bulls-the 90ís teams not the ****** poster-before Durant got there) and getting Durant just killed the league. Without that Iguodala injury, they wouldnít have lost more than three or four games all postseason and that was with them not playing up to their standard. Something was off about them and without Curry sporadically turning it on at times, they mighta lost a bit more because of their lackadaisical play (or all of this behind the scenes stuff is deeper than we thought).

There was a half dozen contenders.....now thereís one. Some teams can make some moves and I hope Iím wrong, but I think this is what we get for the next few years. Yawn.


Also, even Bob Myers says KD is a coattail rider to his face! HAHAHAHA

nastynice
06-14-2018, 04:06 AM
I don't think you can say we were a super team before. Maybe a regular season super team, but chips are won in the post season. Okc wasn't a super team and they were better than us, they shoulda beat us if kd and westbrook didn't have horrible 4th quarters the last few games. Cavs weren't a super team either yet they beat us

We were definitely stacked tho, def a tier 1 contender already. But not a super team the way Miami was years 1-3 in their experiment, especially year 2 when they ripped off 27 straight

If LeBron wants chips then he' ll go to Houston and nothing will be a given next year. Assuming they drop cp3 and not that phenomenal cast of catch and shoot 3 and lengthy versatile d guys

Saddletramp
06-14-2018, 04:12 AM
I don't think you can say we were a super team before. Maybe a regular season super team, but chips are won in the post season. Okc wasn't a super team and they were better than us, they shoulda beat us if kd and westbrook didn't have horrible 4th quarters the last few games. Cavs weren't a super team either yet they beat us

We were definitely stacked tho, def a tier 1 contender already. But not a super team the way Miami was years 1-3 in their experiment, especially year 2 when they ripped off 27 straight

People here were saying they were better than MJís Bulls. And if the rumors are true that GSís big three were trying to recruit KD all year and then °VIOLA! KD chokes after going up 3-1 then I call shenanigans. If that was a screw job, then KD should be banned forever. Even if true (the tank after up 3-1), itíll never be proven so whatevs. Itíll just give him more ***** points.

nastynice
06-14-2018, 04:31 AM
People here were saying they were better than MJís Bulls. And if the rumors are true that GSís big three were trying to recruit KD all year and then °VIOLA! KD chokes after going up 3-1 then I call shenanigans. If that was a screw job, then KD should be banned forever. Even if true (the tank after up 3-1), itíll never be proven so whatevs. Itíll just give him more ***** points.

Well look, we did a lot of historic things, including the wins record and Curry STATISTICALLY having the best offensive season ever. But this game is about rings, and the last two rounds of the playoffs there was nothing "super" about this team

Why would kd tank for the Warriors? Why not beat them and still join them? That makes no sense.. he and westbrook both just struggled

Chronz
06-14-2018, 07:00 AM
May be it's just me and i'm not saying this to justify Durants ***** move to GSW. It is definetly a ***** move.

But if Durant not joined them, and lets say Barnes signs with GSW again or a player that caliber, i don't think the warriors win another title against LeBron.
Thats a possibility, I would kill to have another series with such great probabilities. KD effectively killed any shot outside those which hold true for all and hes made the sport FAR more predictable (not just at the top but among the left over squads as well) as a result. Its going to take awhile for that to stabilize, if it ever does. Thats what happens when a contender adds an MVP vs an MVP creating a NEW contender. In fact, Zach Lowe (a guy who votes on FMVP) stated in his podcast that the overwhelming majority of them felt these Dubs would shellack the Cavs without KD this year and the last. But man that would have been some incredible basketball instead of the snoozefest of the last 2 years. Plenty already had the Cavs losing vs the Warriors if they got through the actual favorite (It would have been OKC had KD simply returned), so we would have had at the least a 3 headed beast of rivalries, in its place we had 1 team we all knew would not lose and several mid tier contenders completely collapsed.


LeBron completely got under their skin in 2016, and if they've won in 2107 i don't think Kyrie leaves too. This years Houston could eliminate them too.

What if CP3 doesn't leave? Its the butterfly effect so you cant just pick and choose cuz I think Kyrie leaves anyways, hes like the Anti-KD in that he wants to see what he can actually do as more of a leader, whereas KD already failed hard and wanted the easy life.


Even if Durant stayed in OKC they could have a legit chance to beat the warriors. But i'm not going to get angry on KD just because he left cause i don't think anybody should be blamed for not wanting to play with RWB.

Then you do it the manly way and tell management to ship his *** out, maybe KD couldn't because he spent the entire time acting like they were friends, I blame KD for being a snake


That 73 wins made GSW seem a little better than they actually are. Now i am going to hide somewhere, the bashing is coming.

LOL so what were they? A ho hum 70 win team, 67, lol you do realize how low you actually have to go before you make the 2 moves comparable, right? Its not even close brother, its not bashing you to give you facts and question your logic. Trust me, the vast majority of us would have KILLED for KD copying LeBron and creating a new power to battle the powers already in existence. To simply hop on board of the powers, a power like this one specifically, is simply UNPRECEDENTED.

Chronz
06-14-2018, 07:16 AM
And there are easy ways to quantify that, like the fact that Miami only won 2 rings in 4 years where as the Warriors with Durant have already matched that in 2.

You didn't really quantify anything here, the Warriors pre-KD were aready on pace to get at least 2 in 4 as well, now they should get well over that barring the obvious choke job/injuries.


Rings are a team achievement, not an individual. If we can accept the fact and praise players with only 1 or zero rings due to team cirumstance then we should be able to understand that players who end up with 3+ rings only do so from being on incredibly talented teams for many years. That goes for every single one of them, including LeBron who put himself in that position through FA twice.

They are a team achievement, its why nobody ranks players in order of how many championships they've won. What we instead look at is how they won and honestly, its going to take like 3 titles in GS for KD to match even 1 in Miami from Bron. Hell even that might not cut it to be objective about this, theres never been a team that could contend without a player of KD's calibre in history. I put KD's rings in a category with Elvin Hayes, where I didnt need to see Karl Malone or Charles Barkley win a ring to know they were superior players/leaders.


The mindset is the key to the comparison, and neither of them remotely went for the "hard" route. Miami completely trumped the Lakers, the Celtics and the rest of the NBA in talent and they
I disagree completely but even if you were correct, I would GLADLY take a new power coming from the ashes to combat them rather than join LA or Boston. THEN it would be comparable. LeBron left the shittiest situation to finally get some help against vastly more talented squads, KD literally joined the power all while having been surrounded by immense talent his entire career.



thought they were easily going to win 7+ rings, words from their own mouths.
The trolls who usually bring up the hype rally for MIAMI FANS never respond to my simple rebuttal. Why would I put more stock in that hype rally than an ACTUAL serious interview setting projected to the wider fan base of the NBA? Cuz in the many other interviews since that rally he had a far different view, talking about how hard and how much work it will actually take. Its like you've never joked with your boys with street talk and then walked into a business meeting with those same guys and COMPLETELY changed your cadence. Dude, IDGAF about a pep rally, Shaq made that pep rally look like trash when he showed up in a Diesel, now THAT was theater.


There was no where Durant could have went where they would have trumped Golden State and Cleveland in talent and create that kind of advantage, other than Golden State itself,
False, he could have simply stayed in OKC and had more talent than Cleveland, its one of the reasons why many of his teammates in GS felt that OKC was the better team. Not that its gospel but I know that Vegas would have favored them above even GS. It definitely would've been ALOT more competitive than what we were left with before. Personally, I wanted him in DC or Boston, that would've been an epic league. Hell I know of some GS fans who wish KD never joined them because they cant even enjoy the team anymore.


where as LeBron had at least one other option to do that not involving Wade in Chicago. Of course, then Wade, Bosh and Joe Johnson could have formed in Miami and could have possibly beaten LeBron's Bulls. We couldn't have that, right?

LMFAO, Joe Johnson? I'd easily take Chicago (the 1 seed with the best defense in the league) with Bron at the helm over Wade and Bosh+JJ. There is nothing the Heat could have done that would've been better than adding the games best player.



It's that simple, from a circumstantial standpoint.
If only it were rooted in fact. The circumstances are that nobody has ever stooped as low as KD and plenty in the NBA today and of yesteryear know this, the stats definitely support it considering how it destroyed many teams projection systems and even made Vegas put them above the 72 Win Bulls despite never playing a game. Think about all that context and you will see its never happened and will never happen again. KD got lucky his cowardice showed up at the right time.

nastynice
06-14-2018, 07:33 AM
This is just ridiculous, this team, I don't think any other team had people talking about them like this, like it's over before it even began, maybe celtics in the 60's (or whenever that was). Probably 80's Lakers and celtics had people talking like this for their conference. Let's see if LeBron joins a competent squad and we stay going at it like that

nastynice
06-14-2018, 07:55 AM
, the stats definitely support it considering how it destroyed many teams projection systems and even made Vegas put them above the 72 Win Bulls despite never playing a game. Think about all that context and you will see its never happened and will never happen again.

lmao, I never knew that, Lacob and Myers are absolute monster. Gotta keep the core 4 intact, Klay and Draymond in perfect situations, gotta see if they take less, if they do and our core 4 stays, ladies and gents this **** might get crazy.

Curry is the oldest at 30, let's see if he can hit the 3peat by 31, that boy gotta stay healthy tho. Pre all star go into preseason mode, post all star focus and get ready to make a serious run. It's the only way to sustain so many finals trips in a row.

Chronz
06-14-2018, 08:05 AM
Again, completely circumstantial scenarios. I basically responded to this already in my previous post
Its meant to be hpothetical. You kind of have to compare given the unparralled union.


That's not remotely the same thing as it's been well documented that they started planning from at least the 2008 Olympics, years before their FA.
It is the same, by well documented you mean well theorized. Melo was suppose to be a part of that but he didn't follow through so its not concrete either. I fail to see the difference, is it somehow more honorable that KD was being wooed amidst the heat of battle vs the very people hes suppose to be slaying? LOL if anything, the added context only makes it worse for you. I remember when Tmac and Hill started talking about playing together while the dude was sitting on the sidelines with an injury, I dont really give a **** about that. You can try to convince me its somehow different but I think it only makes KD worse for doing it with guys hes suppose to be taking down. Good luck tho.


Part of the reason why Miami lacked talented around Wade those years is because Riley was focused on cap space for 2010 instead of building a contender. Kind of a risky play to waste years of Wade's prime, but not so much when you have the ole wink wink deal, eh? Oh, how they "broke" the NBA with their scheming lol.
Not really, plenty of teams have cleared up cap space with that intention, and you're actually wrong, he tried to land Odom and IIRC Boozer at one point which would have crippled some of that cap space (not that he couldn't later trade Odom but your theory has holes), when he kept getting short term deals Wade was allegedly pissed off and the worry was that he would got to Chicago. None of us know the truth about behind closed doors but thats why Im good focusing on the facts of the acts. What KD did is something no player has ever done.


No, I acknowledged that him doing it this time would be much different than 2010 and 2014, while still highlighting that this trend is something he started. Houston took them to 7, there is already a team that had a reasonable shot at beating the Warriors. Just because it wasn't a team with LeBron on it doesn't mean they don't exist.

LMFAO, the Warriors blew them out in their wins and the Rockets won the obvious G2 on their HC and then squeaked out 2 50/50 games and that was their best shot vs an injured Dubs team. Thats the best we got and might be the best we'll get and it further diluted the league. Lemme put it this way, would you look at the Joe Johnson Hawks and think they had a reasonable talent base simply because they pushed the eventual champion Celtics to 7 (where Kobe and Pau only pushed them to 6?)

You have to look at the entire picture, not just highlight 1 series. I've never suggested that GS is incapable of choking, just that they have to play well beneath their talent base to lose.


You're really going to try and continue this nonsense?
Its not nonsense, its an understanding of projective modeling along with common sense.


You really don't understand that statistical anomalies throughout a players career are a thing? Has LeBron been declining as a scorer since he was 25 because he averaged 29.7 PPG that season and hasn't even touched 28 PPG since?
Was LeBron in full decline his first two years in Cleveland due to his statistical drops and clear shooting drop, and now is no longer in decline the last two years?
If you're focusing solely on scoring (with no context of Efficiency/Pace at that) its not a wonder why you dont understand a players complete statistical profile and how thousands of careers have played out. This is what GM's and advanced scouts use when projecting how a player may age, you get similar profiles based on stats and style of play. Adding additional context helps but you still got statistical comparisons for that too. You're really out of your lane here brother, as your Bron example can display considering his consistent chart. Even when he had his dip his first year in Miami and Cleveland (which tends to happen on new squads, especially given a decline in usage) he still led the league one year and never had the precipitous drop in overall efficiency that Wade suffered as he neared 30. Put that into context, it took Bron joining a new franchise with a different heirarchy and more talent to see the decline Wade had despite being on a team that absolutely needed everything they could muster from that man. So in other words, one was more explainable the other was a disturbing decline.. I actually expect Bron to suffer his Wade drop next year since Im pretty sure he qualifies for the fluke rule (another statistical/projection claim) and should be joining a new situation.

Even if all Im saying is wrong, you know what you cant say? That we had peak Wade and he sure as **** wasn't going to last as long as the reigning MVP. I saw peak Wade live, that wasn't him.




No, Dwyane Wade was not declining at age 28/29 and before LeBron even got there, at least not by any traditional sense of how the word is used in sports. He was still very much in his prime.

I VERY CLEARLY stated theres a difference between peak and Prime. Anyone whos ever taken a glance at player projections knows athletes tend to peak early, especially undersized SG with no range who rely on their quickness and who entered the league with a career altering injury+ suffereed more as the many hits mounted. These were well known issues you want me to ignore simply because Wade didn't drop like a rock? He was still in his prime, Fact. He was no longer at his apex, Fact.


And he was still one of the top 3 players in the NBA when LeBron got there, so this is completely moot.
He was around there but yeah, thats a better point than trying to trick people into thinking joining Wade who was already statistically declining and not even close to winning a thing is the same joining the guy fresh off 2 Finals (1 win), 2MVP's (1 unanimous) and a record breaking season(s). Its hardly the same, one is very clearly at his apex the other is clearly on a downward trajectory and had questionable health as he aged.


He had two of the best playoff series of his career in 2010-11.
I disagree, his clear best series were half a decade earlier when he acutally got more defensive attention IMO.



Saying he had "numerous franchise altering injuries" as if it altered his play or anything is ridiculous. He had the clear best season of his career well after those injuries. Try harder.
I dont have to try harder when I'm literally echoing the thoughts of the player in question. You have nothing but opinion, I have stats + Wade's agreement. He himself would tell you that he should have never had taken the route he did in College, he would have sustained his peak far longer and possible taken it up a level too. And if you want to ignore the realities of the injuries he sustained, you just gotta agree to disagree because I never will.



Wade didn't win? Wade won a Finals with one of the most dominant performances ever before LeBron even got to one. :laugh2:

Yes, and had Bron joined that Wade and that Miami, it would be closer in scope depending on what they did with the rest of the roster, but even that would fall short considering many dont consider that Heat team much of a champion historically. THAT would be PEAK WADE.


The best part of all of this nonsense is you guys living in a world where the last two postseasons didn't happen. The Warriors don't beat the Cavs in the 2017 Finals and they don't beat the Rockets in the 2018 WCF without Kevin Durant. They would still only have one ring if he never went there, and if it wasn't for Kyrie and Love being hurt in 2015 then they likely have zero.

Then how did I win so much money when I called exactly what transpired 2 years ago? I should have had the balls to go for 3 years but I mustve been exposed to whatever KD caught.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201806060CLE.html

This game single handily crushed the debate that Kevin Durant "coasts to Finals victories" and that they can win without him doing much. It's exactly the kind of stuff that we eventually saw from LeBron in Miami that crushed the same exact debate lobbied against him after The Decision. I predicted that this could easily happen here before last years postseason and it's not surprising to see people holding on to that narrative for dear life just as some held onto it for LeBron.

Move on with your lives, or just take a break from the NBA for a bit if Durant dominating is that upsetting for you. :laugh2:
LMFAO, how does that prove a thing? Its ok to cite opinion and maybe what you said would be true of GS, thems are the breaks of injuries sometimes, but you know what, that would be a far more competitive league.
As for your link, I dont get it, what happens if KD plays poorly that game, they're 2 and 1? Oh lord how could we all have missed that. It should have been 2-1 anyways but to even get did you see what it took from LeBron? Yes these things can happen, but because of KD thats basically all we're left with. What you're doing is akin to showing the Sonics win the 1 seed 2 years in a row and thinking because they lost in r.1 both years that they weren't supremely talented just playing beneath their potential in possibly bad matchups. It wasn't surprising when they made the Finals, that was them actually playing to their talent level. These Warriors are much the same way, its been a long time since i remember any team coasting through seasons the way they have. They literally dont have to try hard to win 60ish. They played zero defense all year and simply turn it on when they have to. Im sorry, them being in close games is a fail but so long as they win theyre happy.

Its cute that you think Im not moving on with my life, dont conflate resolute conviction with me being hung up on something, I only come on here to debate and/or **** post and to talk ball with e-buddies/frenemies, it jsut so happens this is one of those topics (much like my stance on Wilt and Tmac) that I will never waiver on when I see someone try to peddle the BS that the 2 were anything close to each other.

EVERY OTHER MOVE IN NBA HISTORY, is more comparable to Bron than KD is to Bron in their defections.


But for the record you had Chicago as a place you would rather Bron have gone to?

Chronz
06-14-2018, 08:17 AM
This is just ridiculous, this team, I don't think any other team had people talking about them like this, like it's over before it even began, maybe celtics in the 60's (or whenever that was). Probably 80's Lakers and celtics had people talking like this for their conference. Let's see if LeBron joins a competent squad and we stay going at it like that
Nah, even in the 60's people felt the C's were closer to the average than what we see today. Seriously, you guys were already on that level of existence with the greatest to ever play, THEN you added KD. You take any other superstar of that caliber off of their teams and they fall out of contention with maybe exception to MJ's Bulls (another team on your level) and even with them its wishy washy, with the Dubs, we already know how they play with and without KD/Steph. Hell, we saw what your squad could do without Steph before KD ever showed up(tho they had Barnes and he was no joke) when they practically won 2 playoff series without him. Lacob was right, you guys are way ahead of the field, hes just wrong for downplaying the amount of good fortune and timing for it to happen.

What made betting on you guys such a no brainer wouldn't hold true for any team in history, I know I've never had the courage to take 2 year bets like that before. The game was just that simple since the sex change

Chronz
06-14-2018, 08:21 AM
lmao, I never knew that, Lacob and Myers are absolute monster. Gotta keep the core 4 intact, Klay and Draymond in perfect situations, gotta see if they take less, if they do and our core 4 stays, ladies and gents this **** might get crazy.

Curry is the oldest at 30, let's see if he can hit the 3peat by 31, that boy gotta stay healthy tho. Pre all star go into preseason mode, post all star focus and get ready to make a serious run. It's the only way to sustain so many finals trips in a row.

Yeah, i just hope they stop taking team friendly deals and force ownership to pay up big(Hell even Zaza settled for far less than market value to get to start for a year and a half). The only hope we have is that yall lose so much depth that your core 4 have to carry a greater load, thus reducing their prime window and relying more on health. I just dont think management is that negligent, we need teams stop trading guys like Bell to you thats for sure, the reasoning behind that move was so stupid too.

Chronz
06-14-2018, 08:25 AM
Late add,

Lebron and buddies talking about possibly coming together in free agency years down the line is somehow worse than KD talking to guys hes suppose to be dethroning in the middle of battle. If not during the series its still at least during a time when both sides are in a direct collision course. Its not like KD or the Dubs were toiling away in mediocrity while the other contended.

Someone make sense of that for me because thats one where I really dont care to nitpick much about, but it has to be equal.

nastynice
06-14-2018, 08:37 AM
Yeah, i just hope they stop taking team friendly deals and force ownership to pay up big(Hell even Zaza settled for far less than market value to get to start for a year and a half). The only hope we have is that yall lose so much depth that your core 4 have to carry a greater load, thus reducing their prime window and relying more on health. I just dont think management is that negligent, we need teams stop trading guys like Bell to you thats for sure, the reasoning behind that move was so stupid too.

Well, you're saying that now cuz you seen him play with our team. Would you have guessed McCaw? Bro this post season we dug deep on that bench, as long as we have the correct type of role players, they'll more than likely perform very well.

In this case it may very well make financial sense for them to take friendly deals, they are recognized way more here than they would anywhere else, Klay got 80 mill off a shoe deal, he doing milk too, cmon, where else he gonna make that? He could sign for 50 mill less and already still coming out 30 mill in the plus

nastynice
06-14-2018, 08:40 AM
Late add,

Lebron and buddies talking about possibly coming together in free agency years down the line is somehow worse than KD talking to guys hes suppose to be dethroning in the middle of battle. If not during the series its still at least during a time when both sides are in a direct collision course. Its not like KD or the Dubs were toiling away in mediocrity while the other contended.

Someone make sense of that for me because thats one where I really dont care to nitpick much about, but it has to be equal.

Lmao, what's equal? We out super teamed the super team era. I wish we got to face a prime Miami like this, lol, damn if only this came together a few years sooner. Whatever move lebron makes he still gonna have to dethrone us for us to start saying it's equal

Chronz
06-14-2018, 08:59 AM
Well look, we did a lot of historic things, including the wins record and Curry STATISTICALLY having the best offensive season ever. But this game is about rings, and the last two rounds of the playoffs there was nothing "super" about this team

Why would kd tank for the Warriors? Why not beat them and still join them? That makes no sense.. he and westbrook both just struggled

He was playing 4d chess. He knew he would lose to lebron so he lost earlier to give him more options

nastynice
06-14-2018, 09:11 AM
He was playing 4d chess. He knew he would lose to lebron so he lost earlier to give him more options

Oh yea, same way everyone was running out of the east to go play west, lol :)

Chronz
06-14-2018, 09:57 AM
Well, you're saying that now cuz you seen him play with our team. Would you have guessed McCaw? Bro this post season we dug deep on that bench, as long as we have the correct type of role players, they'll more than likely perform very well.

In this case it may very well make financial sense for them to take friendly deals, they are recognized way more here than they would anywhere else, Klay got 80 mill off a shoe deal, he doing milk too, cmon, where else he gonna make that? He could sign for 50 mill less and already still coming out 30 mill in the plus
Plenty were pissed about that one but yeah, they look better in GS than their original teams but still, to give them an athletic big to generate goodwill is pretty dumb reasoning any way you slice it, much worse when its to a team thats already strapped to the gills.

It might be true but I honestly think Klay could get more shine if he went to Philly. Its a perfect spot and that team is on the rise, he would put up huge scoring numbers there, hell even an old *** Reddick put up a career year iirc. Its just a perfect situation for his skillset IMO.

I think Draymond is going to lose his defensive edge pretty soon, I dont think his lateral ability is sustainable but I could be dead wrong there. Still, hes a guy whos already taken the paycut for KD, with KD now stuck to his hip, I think hes ready to be paid.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2018, 10:44 AM
KD is right. It also demonstrates he is a complete beta. But we all know that.

Saddletramp
06-14-2018, 11:14 AM
Well look, we did a lot of historic things, including the wins record and Curry STATISTICALLY having the best offensive season ever. But this game is about rings, and the last two rounds of the playoffs there was nothing "super" about this team

Why would kd tank for the Warriors? Why not beat them and still join them? That makes no sense.. he and westbrook both just struggled

They were saying at the time that losing to the Cavs ďopened the doorĒ for KD joining. Not sure if that door would be open if KD beat them.

Chronz
06-14-2018, 11:36 AM
They were saying at the time that losing to the Cavs ďopened the doorĒ for KD joining. Not sure if that door would be open if KD beat them.

Imagine if he loses to Bron in the Finals and then signs with the team he barely beat. Would it look more or less desperate? Im not sure but it doesn't matter. You know what I was laughing at the other day, the thought of what it would look like if the core-4 were claiming 3 chips in 4 years, only the core-4 involved Iggy and not KD. KD out there just holding up a 2 in the group photo lmfao. How awkward would he feel if that happened at a live event somewhere lol

nastynice
06-14-2018, 04:53 PM
They were saying at the time that losing to the Cavs ďopened the doorĒ for KD joining. Not sure if that door would be open if KD beat them.

It would

nastynice
06-14-2018, 04:54 PM
Imagine if he loses to Bron in the Finals and then signs with the team he barely beat. Would it look more or less desperate? Im not sure but it doesn't matter. You know what I was laughing at the other day, the thought of what it would look like if the core-4 were claiming 3 chips in 4 years, only the core-4 involved Iggy and not KD. KD out there just holding up a 2 in the group photo lmfao. How awkward would he feel if that happened at a live event somewhere lol

Already happened twice. Didn't seem to bother anyone

Chrisclover
06-15-2018, 09:21 AM
please use the proper pronouns when discussing KD...

the options are

Her, hers she and so forth

haha, got it. KD is such a priss.

Chrisclover
06-15-2018, 09:25 AM
I don't really get it ... doesn't everyone know it's easier to be the best player on a bad team than being the best player on a great team? People complain about this group of people called "LeBron haters" who look for every opportunity even going to the lengths of making things up if needed just to point blame at LeBron. I guess KD has arrived at that level now.

LOL, I think that is over-analysis. KD does not dare to openly satirize LeBron

nastynice
06-15-2018, 10:05 AM
LOL, I think that is over-analysis. KD does not dare to openly satirize LeBron

One of these guys seeks the other on offense and defense. One don't want no parts of the other. I don't know about this "not dare" thing you speak of, really he prob just doesn't care too. He be looking up to lebron anyway

Byronicle
06-15-2018, 10:12 AM
He isn't wrong. When all your team mates are crap, you get the most possessions which usually means more shots, more passes, and more minutes

But this just makes him look like a loser to be honest.

KG2TB
06-16-2018, 09:08 AM
Put LeBron on the Dubs and they probably win 75 games and sweep the playoffs. Put KD on Cleveland and they most likely donít get past the Celtics.

Giannis94
06-16-2018, 11:07 AM
https://brobible.com/sports/article/kevin-durant-burner-account-twitter-user/

nastynice
06-16-2018, 12:51 PM
Put LeBron on the Dubs and they probably win 75 games and sweep the playoffs. Put KD on Cleveland and they most likely donít get past the Celtics.

Yup, Draymond green sitting in the corner splashing 3's all day, while Steph stays strictly catch and shoot :nod:

Seriously tho, hard to predict wether lebron could fit in a motion system. Everywhere he goes he IS the system, and damn sure no way no Dubs fan wanna see our system replaced by the LeBron system

Vee-Rex
06-16-2018, 02:32 PM
Put LeBron on the Dubs and they probably win 75 games and sweep the playoffs. Put KD on Cleveland and they most likely donít get past the Raptors.

Well said.

hpt
06-16-2018, 05:00 PM
Look what Myles Garrett said about Durant:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781113-myles-garrett-rips-kevin-durant-says-warriors-star-rode-somebodys-coattails

KG2TB
06-16-2018, 05:32 PM
Well said.

Lol I see what you did there...and you may be right.

Chronz
06-16-2018, 05:33 PM
Put LeBron on the Dubs and they probably win 75 games and sweep the playoffs. Put KD on Cleveland and they most likely donít get past the Celtics.

Past the celtics? Lol they lose to the Pacers in r1. Hell they prolly lose without HCA

But bron doesn't win that much, maybe only like 68

tredigs
06-16-2018, 08:35 PM
Past the celtics? Lol they lose to the Pacers in r1. Hell they prolly lose without HCA

But bron doesn't win that much, maybe only like 68
There is nothing about LeBron's game that services them better than Durant. Get yourself a **** defender and ball dominant player on a team that relies on movement and catch+shoot athletes? No thanks. More **** posts from you boys concerning the champs.

Saddletramp
06-17-2018, 03:07 AM
There is nothing about LeBron's game that services them better than Durant. Get yourself a **** defender and ball dominant player on a team that relies on movement and catch+shoot athletes? No thanks. More **** posts from you boys concerning the champs.

Yeah, because KD was this good of a defender in OKC. Taking all of that pressure off of Lebron would do wonders for his offense game. Talk about a **** post......

ewing
06-17-2018, 06:15 AM
I can't believe how blinded you can be. I'm not arguing who is the better player or who could do what whit or without talent. I always say LBJ is on Jordons level and one of the top two players in the history of the game. But that doesn't change the fact that he started this superteam ****.

Then when that team declined, he again started a team with Kyrie and Love(who at the time was a 26/12 player). He won against GS with that team. GS followed the same path and got Durant and formed their superteam. LBJ is playing against a monster he created.

The point is, you can't bash Durant for what he did and pull excuses for LBJ out of your *** for what he did.

And Durant is the best player on Golden State, so LBJ was the best player on Heat argument proves nothing. Actually he hasn't choked in the finals, if you know what i mean.

Boom


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ewing
06-17-2018, 06:17 AM
LBJ has zero titles without multiple All Stars alongside him, don't get it twisted. And it's "where as" fyi.

But he beat Victor, Derozen, and Tatum. You think a KD lead team could do that?


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ewing
06-17-2018, 06:29 AM
Ray Allen had kinda fallen off compared to what he was in Seattle, where dude was getting to the rack at will. He did remain an elite shooter tho. Garnett was mvp caliber when he first got to Boston

Ray Allen never got to the rack at will


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Heediot
06-17-2018, 07:08 AM
KLove and George Hill might play better off of KD. Hill would handle the rock more and make more decisions. Love will have more space to operate as KD can function with the bigs grinding down low. There's a argument that the cohesiveness of the unit might be better with KD. The only thing that may hold them back from being better is Lue. George Hill played well off of Hayward, and I think Love getting some work down low and kicking it out to a guy like KD can develop/work some different sets/plays.

Chronz
06-17-2018, 11:23 AM
There is nothing about LeBron's game that services them better than Durant. Get yourself a **** defender and ball dominant player on a team that relies on movement and catch+shoot athletes? No thanks. More **** posts from you boys concerning the champs.
I disagree, his defense would look much better on that team, he's far more durable, incredible vision and his ball dominance has lessened, it's just been called into action more this year . Either way, it's debatable, you know what's not tho, what you both ignored. Lol that's what i really care about, maybe gs doesn't win more. But we all know kd ain't leading ****.
Lmao

Chronz
06-17-2018, 11:29 AM
KLove and George Hill might play better off of KD. Hill would handle the rock more and make more decisions. Love will have more space to operate as KD can function with the bigs grinding down low. There's a argument that the cohesiveness of the unit might be better with KD. The only thing that may hold them back from being better is Lue. George Hill played well off of Hayward, and I think Love getting some work down low and kicking it out to a guy like KD can develop/work some different sets/plays.

Doubtful, kds fake *** never gets Isiah traded first of all. And having the ball more in an inferior play makes hands is exactly what the cavs don't need. Love downlow? Have you seen him in ther post even vs switches? Any sort of increase in usage would not offset the loss of the best player in the game, not to mention they'd lose all the games he missed and would be less durable carrying. Lack of vision and playmaking on a team that just lost kyrie, they don't need a star doing less.

Heediot
06-17-2018, 12:02 PM
Doubtful, kds fake *** never gets Isiah traded first of all. And having the ball more in an inferior play makes hands is exactly what the cavs don't need. Love downlow? Have you seen him in ther post even vs switches? Any sort of increase in usage would not offset the loss of the best player in the game, not to mention they'd lose all the games he missed and would be less durable carrying. Lack of vision and playmaking on a team that just lost kyrie, they don't need a star doing less.

That's true about the play-making. I still think Love will find a better rhythm without Bron, ball watching doesn't keep you as engaged mentally. But ultimately late in the game or against the tightest of defenses, Bron is better then KD and Love. I think KD can have problems if you get in his grill. His rushed shots aren't as effective and I think his handles are great for his height but over-rated for a modern wing/his usg percentage. I still think the Hill and Love play better off of KD, but ultimately like you said it won't matter as some play-making and arguably defense is offset.

nastynice
06-17-2018, 02:46 PM
Ray Allen never got to the rack at will


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I seen him do it in Seattle

At will may be an overstatement, but he was regularly breaking down defenses to run their offense, not just a shooter

tredigs
06-17-2018, 03:42 PM
I disagree, his defense would look much better on that team, he's far more durable, incredible vision and his ball dominance has lessened, it's just been called into action more this year . Either way, it's debatable, you know what's not tho, what you both ignored. Lol that's what i really care about, maybe gs doesn't win more. But we all know kd ain't leading ****.
Lmao
His ball dominance has lessened? Lmfao. Based on what? And why would he be a better fit as a less ball-dominant player than a player who is not only a better catch and shoot player, but a better ISO scorer when the time calls for it? Thinking his D would look better is pure speculation. As is, it is complete **** and as he ages I have no reason to think that would suddenly change simply because he is on a team with better defenders. He is apathetic on that end and has a strange passive-aggressiveness towards his teammates if they miss an assignment. Never ONCE seen him own up to his countless missed assignments throughout every game, up to and including the NBA Finals. He'd make Golden State worse in KD's stead, period.

nastynice
06-17-2018, 04:20 PM
His ball dominance has lessened? Lmfao. Based on what? And why would he be a better fit as a less ball-dominant player than a player who is not only a better catch and shoot player, but a better ISO scorer when the time calls for it? Thinking his D would look better is pure speculation. As is, it is complete **** and as he ages I have no reason to think that would suddenly change simply because he is on a team with better defenders. He is apathetic on that end and has a strange passive-aggressiveness towards his teammates if they miss an assignment. Never ONCE seen him own up to his countless missed assignments throughout every game, up to and including the NBA Finals. He'd make Golden State worse in KD's stead, period.

Yea, fit wise kd is just about perfect. He can be transposed on top of our system to give us a go to one on one guy when we need, which is especially valuable in the playoffs. He can play off the ball and he can dish, allowing us to run our system, then obviously he can also just go get a bucket over anyone

Jamiecballer
06-17-2018, 05:01 PM
I disagree, his defense would look much better on that team, he's far more durable, incredible vision and his ball dominance has lessened, it's just been called into action more this year . Either way, it's debatable, you know what's not tho, what you both ignored. Lol that's what i really care about, maybe gs doesn't win more. But we all know kd ain't leading ****.
Lmaonot sure why we would want to swap Durant with LeBron, you are talking about whether Van Gogh or Leonardo Davinci are better artists. there are points to both views.

what is much more interesting even though it could never happen is imagining a swap of Curry for LeBron. put LeBron at PG with that team could they legitimately go undefeated?

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nastynice
06-17-2018, 05:15 PM
not sure why we would want to swap Durant with LeBron, you are talking about whether Van Gogh or Leonardo Davinci are better artists. there are points to both views.

what is much more interesting even though it could never happen is imagining a swap of Curry for LeBron. put LeBron at PG with that team could they legitimately go undefeated?

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Doubt it. Golden state isn't full of catch and shoot 3 and d guys, Houston is, Houston is Lebrons best fit

LeBron would beast on that warriors team, but as an overall team I tho k they'd take a clear step back without curry. That team has been tailored around his skill set

Jamiecballer
06-17-2018, 06:08 PM
Doubt it. Golden state isn't full of catch and shoot 3 and d guys, Houston is, Houston is Lebrons best fit

LeBron would beast on that warriors team, but as an overall team I tho k they'd take a clear step back without curry. That team has been tailored around his skill set

I think they could win 78 games. you can build the team around Stephs skill set, that's not a problem since there is literally no skill he possesses that LeBron does not. He's a better shooter, absolutely but James is quite capable on his own out there. I don't have the numbers to back this up unfortunately but I'd have to think 3's off the dribble are generally lower % than catch and shoot and I'd be willing to wager an extraordinarily high percentage of James 3 point attempts are off the dribble. this fact probably disguises the fact that he's a pretty nice shooter now in his own right.

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Heediot
06-17-2018, 07:10 PM
I think they could win 78 games. you can build the team around Stephs skill set, that's not a problem since there is literally no skill he possesses that LeBron does not. He's a better shooter, absolutely but James is quite capable on his own out there. I don't have the numbers to back this up unfortunately but I'd have to think 3's off the dribble are generally lower % than catch and shoot and I'd be willing to wager an extraordinarily high percentage of James 3 point attempts are off the dribble. this fact probably disguises the fact that he's a pretty nice shooter now in his own right.

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I don't think Bron can play off the ball as good as Curry. Curry reeks Havoc with the way he finds his spots and the threat of his shot draws defenses a certain way. Bron at this point needs more refinement to be anywhere close to Curry in that regard. Curry's transition three game is also a tonne more deadly.

I think its possible the Warriors could win more games with James if they are given more time, they need time to tinker/adjust and create chemistry. That's also the key can James and or the team blend well together. It's also possible that the chemistry isn' t as good. In the playoffs though I think they are a far better animal with James replacing probably anyone on GS.

nastynice
06-17-2018, 07:15 PM
I think they could win 78 games. you can build the team around Stephs skill set, that's not a problem since there is literally no skill he possesses that LeBron does not. He's a better shooter, absolutely but James is quite capable on his own out there. I don't have the numbers to back this up unfortunately but I'd have to think 3's off the dribble are generally lower % than catch and shoot and I'd be willing to wager an extraordinarily high percentage of James 3 point attempts are off the dribble. this fact probably disguises the fact that he's a pretty nice shooter now in his own right.

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Curry plays off the ball at a level NUMEROUS tiers above lebron, like not even the same ball park, and that's what the entire warriors system is, off ball screens used to open up lanes for slashes or to give enough space for shooters.

Please don't look up the numbers because if they lead you to the conclusion that lebron is anywhere near curry as an off the dribble shooter then those numbers have horribly deceived you. This is the problem with people who hang their hat on stats, they can be twisted in order to try and push the most ridiculous of narratives

Lebrons a great shooter, he has improved that skill and he is a 3pt threat, but don't let that confuse you into thinking he is anything close to curry in that regard

Jamiecballer
06-17-2018, 07:40 PM
Curry plays off the ball at a level NUMEROUS tiers above lebron, like not even the same ball park, and that's what the entire warriors system is, off ball screens used to open up lanes for slashes or to give enough space for shooters.

Please don't look up the numbers because if they lead you to the conclusion that lebron is anywhere near curry as an off the dribble shooter then those numbers have horribly deceived you. This is the problem with people who hang their hat on stats, they can be twisted in order to try and push the most ridiculous of narratives

Lebrons a great shooter, he has improved that skill and he is a 3pt threat, but don't let that confuse you into thinking he is anything close to curry in that regardgreat post. but I didn't say that, I think you misread.

as far as off the ball, I'm not going to suggest he would be just as good but I think for the smartest player in the game you are underestimating how good he could be if he did not have to expend so much of his energy.

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