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Scoots
06-09-2018, 11:13 AM
Any draft speculation here

Heediot
06-09-2018, 11:18 AM
If there is a betting line for Luka going number 1 (should be some juicy odds), I'll take it. Its just a gut feeling with the new coach (his relationship/coached) with luka, and the gm on the hot seat (that needs to win now). Although the owner is a AZ Wildcat fan (booster?), so he has that against him.

I'm not saying Luka is the going to be the better player, just looking at it through context and circumstantial speculation.

Bostonjorge
06-09-2018, 11:25 AM
Looking like Boston wants Mo Mamba.

Rozier, Kings pick 2019(#1 portected), Memphis 2019 pick, it has protection but becomes unprotected in 2021 and Bostonís 1st round pick this year.

How high of a pick can that get them to get a C in this draft?

hugepatsfan
06-09-2018, 12:54 PM
Looking like Boston wants Mo Mamba.

Rozier, Kings pick 2019(#1 portected), Memphis 2019 pick, it has protection but becomes unprotected in 2021 and Bostonís 1st round pick this year.

How high of a pick can that get them to get a C in this draft?

I donít think that package gets you into the top half of the lottery. Too much protection on the picks.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-09-2018, 01:11 PM
Mike Sotto is a horrible source but he mentioned that the Nets wanna move up in this draft and use Carroll,Dinwiddie as assets. But they don't want to take on dead weight deals. Not sure they mean long term or what. Carroll be a $15M expiring contract. They be probably taking 2 years or so in return.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/08/brooklyn-nets-nba-draft-trade-rumors-milwaukee-bucks/

Tg11
06-09-2018, 01:22 PM
If they were smart the Suns they would take Ayton at #1

Scoots
06-09-2018, 03:25 PM
Bamba would be a nightmare with the Celtics, but I don't think they can trade high enough to get him.

This draft has top blue chip talent, but the middle/top of the first isn't as strong as last year, then 20-40 it's VERY strong.

Bostonjorge
06-09-2018, 07:56 PM
Duke C Wendell Carter is looking available at #10. Great solid player. Carter will beef up the front court. Is Rozier enough to get that pick? Rozier will fit in perfect with Philly and give them another ďpotentialĒ big time scorer.

Or is Rozier a over pay for #10?

FlashBolt
06-09-2018, 10:48 PM
Duke C Wendell Carter is looking available at #10. Great solid player. Carter will beef up the front court. Is Rozier enough to get that pick? Rozier will fit in perfect with Philly and give them another ďpotentialĒ big time scorer.

Or is Rozier a over pay for #10?

I like Rozier but it's likely an underpay. How much of his success can be credited to the system of Brad? I mean, we can take a look at Crowder and IT as two examples. Even though IT was injured, the system in Boston really helped him take his game to another level. Crowder, same thing. Is there anyone on the Celtics roster more important than Brad Stevens? Because he truly might be the most valuable factor in that franchise in terms of having a hands-on impact in the court. Rosier's value is sky high right now. We likely know Celtics won't offer him a large amount and he'll be a free agent. Might be best to wait for his value to drop (less time on the court) and then make an offer later on.

Mr.B
06-10-2018, 12:14 AM
Looking like Boston wants Mo Mamba.

Rozier, Kings pick 2019(#1 portected), Memphis 2019 pick, it has protection but becomes unprotected in 2021 and Bostonís 1st round pick this year.

How high of a pick can that get them to get a C in this draft?

You havenít heard the rumored talk about Boston and Dallas? Dallas wants Tatum and the Kings 2019 pick (which is #1 overall protected). Obviously the Celtics are not giving up Tatum, and they shouldnít. Jaylen Brown and that Kings 2019 pick (and Bostonís pick this year) would likely get it done. Donít know if Boston would be willing to trade Jaylen either though.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-10-2018, 12:23 AM
Duke C Wendell Carter is looking available at #10. Great solid player. Carter will beef up the front court. Is Rozier enough to get that pick? Rozier will fit in perfect with Philly and give them another ďpotentialĒ big time scorer.

Or is Rozier a over pay for #10?

Terry Rozier is so overrated. He's ended but being a serviceable player but a team would be nuts to trade a lottery pick for him.

Scoots
06-10-2018, 12:43 AM
Terry Rozier is so overrated. He's ended but being a serviceable player but a team would be nuts to trade a lottery pick for him.

He is ... but he's also been underrated until late this year. A lottery pick for him ... no.

hugepatsfan
06-10-2018, 01:24 PM
You havenít heard the rumored talk about Boston and Dallas? Dallas wants Tatum and the Kings 2019 pick (which is #1 overall protected). Obviously the Celtics are not giving up Tatum, and they shouldnít. Jaylen Brown and that Kings 2019 pick (and Bostonís pick this year) would likely get it done. Donít know if Boston would be willing to trade Jaylen either though.

Boston and Dallas don't match on a deal for #5 because they're in different phases. DAL needs young franchise building blocks - guys that can be 1 or 1A players on title teams. Jaylen Brown for as much potential as he has shown hasn't given reason to believe he's that guy. So while the odds are whoever Dallas gets at #5 ends up a worse player than Brown already is it makes sense for them to gamble on that upside because of where they are.

Boston on the other hand has a shot at seriously pushing for a title next year. And while Brown doesn't look like a future 1 or 1A player he's already very good and looks to be an all star caliber player. So for them to move him for a pick that odds say won't be as good would be insanely dumb. Never mind actually throwing more picks in with him, which Dallas would demand because of above.

There just isn't a match with Boston and Dallas. The talks are silly.

Silent
06-10-2018, 03:24 PM
Bamba would be a nightmare with the Celtics, but I don't think they can trade high enough to get him.

This draft has top blue chip talent, but the middle/top of the first isn't as strong as last year, then 20-40 it's VERY strong.

Did you get that from Espn lol

Scoots
06-10-2018, 05:46 PM
Did you get that from Espn lol

No, did they say that? Cool. I just look down there all the time because I love the draft and follow the Warriors so year after year I've been looking at players mocked in that range and I notice this year there are so many guys who, while not likely to be stars sure look like they can be legit NBA players.

Scoots
06-10-2018, 06:18 PM
I think Trae Young has gone from over-rated to under-rated. And Mo Bamba the opposite.

Giannis94
06-11-2018, 10:41 AM
This year's class is far better than next years, no?

Scoots
06-11-2018, 10:45 AM
This year's class is far better than next years, no?

Can't tell yet.

Giannis94
06-11-2018, 10:53 AM
Can't tell yet.

From what I saw online people thought it was a lock. Didn't see much good things about the 2019 class

TheDish87
06-11-2018, 10:57 AM
Duke C Wendell Carter is looking available at #10. Great solid player. Carter will beef up the front court. Is Rozier enough to get that pick? Rozier will fit in perfect with Philly and give them another ďpotentialĒ big time scorer.

Or is Rozier a over pay for #10?

Why would the Sixers do it?

tp13baby
06-11-2018, 12:17 PM
Mike Sotto is a horrible source but he mentioned that the Nets wanna move up in this draft and use Carroll,Dinwiddie as assets. But they don't want to take on dead weight deals. Not sure they mean long term or what. Carroll be a $15M expiring contract. They be probably taking 2 years or so in return.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/08/brooklyn-nets-nba-draft-trade-rumors-milwaukee-bucks/

Dinwiddie for Denverís 14th and Faried.

Silent
06-11-2018, 12:39 PM
No, did they say that? Cool. I just look down there all the time because I love the draft and follow the Warriors so year after year I've been looking at players mocked in that range and I notice this year there are so many guys who, while not likely to be stars sure look like they can be legit NBA players.

But you are right, 15-40 range is Crazy Talent

Scoots
06-11-2018, 01:41 PM
But you are right, 15-40 range is Crazy Talent

I really like Elie Okobo, Chandler Hutchison, Aaron Holiday, Donte Divencenzo, Mo Wagner, Grayson Allen, Jared Vanderbilt ... and several others.

tp13baby
06-11-2018, 04:30 PM
I really like Elie Okobo, Chandler Hutchison, Aaron Holiday, Donte Divencenzo, Mo Wagner, Grayson Allen, Jared Vanderbilt ... and several others.

I think Chandler Hutchinson will be an all star

AntiG
06-11-2018, 04:39 PM
This year's class is far better than next years, no?

i think it is in terms of depth and also up top, especially when it comes to big men. however, it might not be as good at the 1-2 positions.

Giannis94
06-11-2018, 04:44 PM
i think it is in terms of depth and also up top, especially when it comes to big men. however, it might not be as good at the 1-2 positions.
So probably better the Bucks kept the pick then, when? (Would have lost it if lost the conversation n flip for top 16 protected and finished 17)

hugepatsfan
06-11-2018, 10:11 PM
Why would the Sixers do it?

Well the reasons they wouldn't are obvious... Rozier is an RFA after the year compared to a 4 year rookie scale deal. Then there's the obvious upside that the #10 pick will be a better player.

The reasons for a deal are that with the crapshoot nature of the draft, chances are Rozier will end up better than the #10 pick. Not that Rozier is anything special but he looks like he can be a solid starting PG or 6th man of the year contender. It's unlikely that there are 10 players better than him in most draft classes because just by nature most NBA picks flame out or underperform compared to their talent.

I think #10 is too high a pick to settle for Rozier so I wouldn't do it if I were Philly. I've compared Rozier's trade value to George Hill when he got dealt from SA in the same situation (last year before RFA, stuck behind an all star PG) for the #15 pick. PHI at #10 I'd take my chances on the pick - it's high enough that I'd feel good about it.

I think PHX at #16 is a good match from a value perspective and team fit. However, I think BOS will keep Rozier over a "fair" trade offer just because we already have a crowded roster and a ton of future picks. A mid 1st might pan out for us but again, most likely that player will flame out just by nature of the draft. And Rozier is a really valuable bench piece and long-term Kyrie insurance policy. For a team with legit title aspirations going into next year I think they'll favor the now over moving a piece for value. If they end up re-signing Kyrie and having to let Rozier walk for nothing because of luxury tax implications I doubt they'll look back and rue the day they didn't salvage value by a getting a mid 1st.

Bostonjorge
06-12-2018, 01:17 AM
Rozier getting no love.

As for Boston trading Brown? I donít think they should trade their leading playoff scorer. Tatums Super Star awaking talent is the only reason to ďmaybeĒ consider trading Brown for a elite big. In the draft only 2 bigs make sense to lose Brown. Ayton and Bagley. Bagley only weakness is defense but Stevens can change that. Heís already the best inside scorer in the draft.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 08:39 AM
Why would the Sixers do it?

I don't think they'd do it straight up but if it was Rozier, Morris and #27 I would think that's an offer PHI would consider. Maybe another small piece coming back to BOS because I think that's a lopsided deal in PHI's favor.

Dropping 17 spots in the draft. Rozier has proven he can play off the ball so fitting in with Simmons and potentially Fultz shouldn't be an issue. Morris would be a nice rotational player for you guys. Honestly, I'd had to play against him in a PHI uniform.

I'm not as familiar with the PHI organization but after last year if I was the GM I'd be looking to add more playoff proven vets to a young team than more draft picks. But that's just me.

TheDish87
06-12-2018, 08:48 AM
adding Morris and Rozier kills off a chance at a max FA and then forced overpay for Rozier or lose him and basically end up with nothing. We have Fultz so we really dont have use for Rozier. We had 3 key vets contribute to last season and then Amir Johnson, we dont exactly need to 10 vets. We kept a very nice balance. and they produced.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 08:48 AM
Eh. At 10 we have the chance to bring in and work on a major issue with a longer athletic wing that can be a part on the bench as a 6th man.

Rozier is not that. Morris is a tweener non-floor spreading forward. And the talent at 27 (we also have 23) isnít really going to fit with our need.

Between not really helping needs and adding to our cap on a year we have the space for a max contract it would be something we could easily pass up.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 08:55 AM
adding Morris and Rozier kills off a chance at a max FA and then forced overpay for Rozier or lose him and basically end up with nothing. We have Fultz so we really dont have use for Rozier. We had 3 key vets contribute to last season and then Amir Johnson, we dont exactly need to 10 vets. We kept a very nice balance. and they produced.

Hate to break it but LeBrons going to LALA Land. I'm sure PG13 will follow. What player are you giving a max this offseason.

And Redick, Ily and Beli are all Free Agents. I imagine those are the 3 key vets your talking about. They should be replaced or brought back...Either way, you're biting into that cap space to retain them. Outside of Redick - Morris and Rozier are better than the latter 2.

TheDish87
06-12-2018, 08:59 AM
Rozier and Morris maybe better overall players but they dont offer the same fit or shooting that was so crucial to this season. No one knows where James is going but i dont care, i never wanted him. PG3 is still more likely to stay in OKC but the season just ended and no one has a clue right now.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 08:59 AM
Hate to break it but LeBrons going to LALA Land. I'm sure PG13 will follow. What player are you giving a max this offseason.

I wouldnít bank on that so hard that we take away our chance of signing him before FA opens.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 09:06 AM
I wouldnít bank on that so hard that we take away our chance of signing him before FA opens.

You'd be taking on $8M in salaries in my proposed trade. Nothing that would take away the chance for a MAX.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 09:06 AM
You'd be taking on $8M in salaries in my proposed trade. Nothing that would take away the chance for a MAX.

Yes it would because to create space for LeBron we have to dump the $8.7 owed to Jerryís Bayless.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 10:17 AM
Yes it would because to create space for LeBron we have to dump the $8.7 owed to Jerryís Bayless.

By my calculations this roster fits in the cap

PG Simmons/Rozier/Fultz/McConnell

Wings PG13/Covington/Morris

Bigs Embiid/Saric/Holmes

+MLE and vet minimum contracts to fill the holes

warfelg
06-12-2018, 10:25 AM
But it doesnít. Your calculations are wrong because you likely left out holds, and you forgot about a few players too in TLC, Korkmaz, Anderson. Thatís going to need to be taken into account too.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 10:36 AM
But it doesnít.

But actually, it does. Because... Math

1 30,300,000 - George
2 25,250,000 - Embiid
3 10,464,092 -Covington
4 8,339,880 - Fultz
5 6,434,520 - Simmons
6 5,375,000 - Morris
7 3,050,390 - Rozier
8 2,526,840 - Saric
9 1,600,520 - McConnell
10 1,600,520 - Holmes
11 831,927
12 831,927

Totals $96,605,616 on a $101M cap

Leaving $4,394,384 in cap space + MLE

Giannis94
06-12-2018, 10:42 AM
If the Celtics were to trade up, I think it's gonna be into the top 5 to get Bambo or Jackson. Hell, Donic would be fun if he falls.

In that case I wonder if they would be able to deal Rozier, their pick this year, and the Kings pick next year.

Maybe they'd need to add more. And I might be tempted to take Memphis's pick next year instead of the pick this year. In this situation, it allows a team to go full tank-mode. So my gut would tell me the Magic would be a fit- if this is even fair. Which I have no idea.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 11:32 AM
But actually, it does. Because... Math

130,300,000 - George
225,250,000 - Embiid
310,464,092 -Covington
48,339,880 - Fultz
56,434,520 - Simmons
65,375,000 - Morris
73,050,390 - Rozier
82,526,840 - Saric
91,600,520 - McConnell
101,600,520 - Holmes
11831,927
12831,927

Totals $96,605,616 on a $101M cap

Leaving $4,394,384 in cap space + MLE

Edit: I see there should be spaces there. You still left off a bunch of guys though in Anderson ($2,516,048); TLC ($1,446,360); Korkmaz ($1,740,000)

That also means that we would have to renounce rights to Redick, Johnson, Belinelli, Ilyasova.

Right now with total Taxable Salaries were at $70,494,696. Swapping out Bayless for Rozier/Morris on the salary table does little to change that.

You also just breezed past the point where 2 people have told you itís not really a fit anyways. The issue isnít needing a guy like Rozier or a tweener like Morris. Itís needing an athletic wing player. I rather just take either of the Bridges of Walker at 10 than have a one year rental on Rozier and Morris, and need to commit bit money to one of them to keep them. The deal makes no sense from our side.

Scoots
06-12-2018, 11:54 AM
I dunno what kinda numbers you are using there but Paul Georgeís max is higher than Embiids.

$30M is more than $25M.

TheDish87
06-12-2018, 11:59 AM
id rather keep Reddick then trade an asset for Rozier anyway. Miles Bridges + Reddick is a lot more valuable to us than Rozier.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 12:14 PM
$30M is more than $25M.

It came through with strange formatting on mobile anyways. Doesnít matter since he still forgot about 3 players.

Scoots
06-12-2018, 12:50 PM
It came through with strange formatting on mobile anyways. Doesnít matter since he still forgot about 3 players.

Yeah ... but once over the cap you can sign an infinite number of players on vet minimum deals. Not saying I agree with the idea/plan, just that it's not unworkable.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-12-2018, 01:00 PM
The Ringer mentioned #2 Kings and #5 Mavs wanna move down in this draft. Kings want more young players. Mavs want win now pieces for a playoff push. Clippers wanna package both #12 and #13 and move up.

Scoots
06-12-2018, 01:08 PM
The Ringer mentioned #2 Kings and #5 Mavs wanna move down in this draft. Kings want more young players. Mavs want win now pieces for a playoff push. Clippers wanna package both #12 and #13 and move up.

The Kings can get a possible (likely?) superstar at 2 ... it would be totally Kings-like to trade out of that spot.

Luka is underrated now.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 01:10 PM
Yeah ... but once over the cap you can sign an infinite number of players on vet minimum deals. Not saying I agree with the idea/plan, just that it's not unworkable.

Well I think that pushes it to needing to not pick up an option of salary dump a small salary to make the max space.

Thatís still besides the fact of it doesnít really help us based on the needs.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
06-12-2018, 01:15 PM
The Kings can get a possible (likely?) superstar at 2 ... it would be totally Kings-like to trade out of that spot.

Luka is underrated now.

Ainge could whip up a nice package for #2 or #5. If Kings front office is gullible if I was the Bucks i'd cough up Brogdon,Maker,Wilson,#17 for #2 easily. Still not enough. But Kings been ran poorly for so long hard to say what they do. Ainge could offer up Rozier and Kings own pick or Grizzlies or a couple of their own. Hard to say what Ainge has up his sleeves.

Giannis94
06-12-2018, 01:16 PM
The Kings can get a possible (likely?) superstar at 2 ... it would be totally Kings-like to trade out of that spot.

Luka is underrated now.

And they don't have their pick next year so they need a high-impact guy and improve to mid/late lottery otherwise they will get the Nets treatment

Scoots
06-12-2018, 01:35 PM
Well I think that pushes it to needing to not pick up an option of salary dump a small salary to make the max space.

Thatís still besides the fact of it doesnít really help us based on the needs.

Yeah ... frankly at this point what the Sixers need most is a quality GM.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-12-2018, 01:37 PM
Is Doncic gonna be a superstar? That's the question. I'm not sure he will be.

With that said, he's still the guy I'd pick at #2. All of these prospects have their questions and their flaws.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 01:37 PM
Yeah ... frankly at this point what the Sixers need most is a quality GM.

We had that. In Hinkie.

We donít really need a quality one. We need a smart one that can get one of those guys, then find high value on certain fitting skill set players to get on a good deal. I guess thatís quality, but I tend to associate that with retread.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-12-2018, 01:40 PM
Ainge could whip up a nice package for #2 or #5. If Kings front office is gullible if I was the Bucks i'd cough up Brogdon,Maker,Wilson,#17 for #2 easily. Still not enough. But Kings been ran poorly for so long hard to say what they do. Ainge could offer up Rozier and Kings own pick or Grizzlies or a couple of their own. Hard to say what Ainge has up his sleeves.

If Celtics are serious about wanting the #2 pick, they'll offer Brown. I don't think Rozier is gonna move the needle even with the Kings 2019 pick included.

Brown and the Kings 2019 pick for the #2 pick. IDK why the Celtics would feel the need to make this sort of trade, but from the Kings perspective, this is what it would cost probably.

Giannis94
06-12-2018, 02:01 PM
If Celtics are serious about wanting the #2 pick, they'll offer Brown. I don't think Rozier is gonna move the needle even with the Kings 2019 pick included.

Brown and the Kings 2019 pick for the #2 pick. IDK why the Celtics would feel the need to make this sort of trade, but from the Kings perspective, this is what it would cost probably.

That would be really interesting. And also give the Kinds motivation to suck next year

Scoots
06-12-2018, 02:55 PM
Is Doncic gonna be a superstar? That's the question. I'm not sure he will be.

With that said, he's still the guy I'd pick at #2. All of these prospects have their questions and their flaws.

I think he has the best chance of anyone in this draft to be.

Silent
06-12-2018, 03:34 PM
I really like Elie Okobo, Chandler Hutchison, Aaron Holiday, Donte Divencenzo, Mo Wagner, Grayson Allen, Jared Vanderbilt ... and several others.

Hutch, Brunson, Wagner, And Spellmen i really like.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:04 PM
Edit: I see there should be spaces there. You still left off a bunch of guys though in Anderson ($2,516,048); TLC ($1,446,360); Korkmaz ($1,740,000)

Yes I did. They're project players who have little impact. Easy guys to move and you can likely get a pick in return for them in the future.


That also means that we would have to renounce rights to Redick, Johnson, Belinelli, Ilyasova.

Which you'd have to do anyways to sign a max so that's of no consequence in this scenario. If Redick wants to stay he could re-sign for the MIN. You'd also have the $4M in cap space (assuming you trade your first rounders for future picks) and could likely bring them all back.


Right now with total Taxable Salaries were at $70,494,696. Swapping out Bayless for Rozier/Morris on the salary table does little to change that.

Right, but the original point is that it doesn't take away the ability to sign a max guy. Which was my point and you incorrectly stated that wasn't true. It is true.


You also just breezed past the point where 2 people have told you itís not really a fit anyways. The issue isnít needing a guy like Rozier or a tweener like Morris. Itís needing an athletic wing player. I rather just take either of the Bridges of Walker at 10 than have a one year rental on Rozier and Morris, and need to commit bit money to one of them to keep them. The deal makes no sense from our side.

PG13 isn't an athletic wing player? Cov isn't an athletic wing player? I don't see how it doesn't make sense...It makes you a better team in 2018/19 and in the future. Morris isn't going to command huge dollars going forward. He's a mid level guy, $10-15M max for him to be re-signed. Rozier is still up for debate on what kind of a contract he would get. You'd be over the cap at that point anyways so the money doesn't really hurt you.

Bridges is a nice player, he's never going to be a stud though either. Rozier and Morris will give you more in 2018/19 than Bridges would. Probably more in year 2 as well (if they were retained). Bridges may overtake their production in year 3...He may not.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:07 PM
It came through with strange formatting on mobile anyways. Doesnít matter since he still forgot about 3 players.

I didn't forget about the 3 players. If you're signing a max, you have to renounce their rights. Period. That's what we're talking about. If you want them back by keeping their rights...You're not getting a MAX. It's that simple.

In either scenario you have the MLE and minimum contracts which you can likely Beli and Ily back on minimums anyways should they want to return. And I don't think it's out of the question for Redick to return on a MLE.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:09 PM
id rather keep Reddick then trade an asset for Rozier anyway. Miles Bridges + Reddick is a lot more valuable to us than Rozier.

Redick+Rozier+Morris is better than Redick + Bridges. At least for 1 year...Probably 2. If Bridges pans out he's likely better in year 3.

To draft at 10 and sign a MAX Redick is gone anyways unless comes back for the MLE. Which is he does, you can come back on an MLE in my scenario as well.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 06:09 PM
Only if we take that deal you are proposing. Otherwise we can keep nice depth/end of bench guys on cheap rookie contracts and get a max contract.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:11 PM
Only if we take that deal you are proposing. Otherwise we can keep nice depth/end of bench guys on cheap rookie contracts and get a max contract.

I prefer better players. But if you're preference is nice depth/end of bench guys who have proved nothing for cheap...Then so be it.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:20 PM
You're essentially stating that you'd rather have option A or B over option C

Option A

MAX player (Let's say PG13)
Embiid
Simmons
Saric
Covington

Redick (MLE)
Holmes
#10 player (Let's say Bridges)
Belinelli (vet min)
Fultz

Anderson
McConnell
#22 player
Korkmaz
TLC


Option B

Embiid
Simmons
Saric
Covington
Redick

Holmes
#10 player (Let's say Bridges)
Illyasova
Belinelli
Fultz

Anderson
McConnell
#22 player
Korkmaz
TLC

+ cap space (not enough for a MAX - because Reddick isn't going to take an MLE if you can offer more)

Option C

MAX player (Let's say PG13)
Embiid
Simmons
Saric
Covington

Redick (MLE)
Rozier
Morris
Holmes
Belinelli (vet min)

Illyasova (vet min)
Fultz
Anderson
McConnell
vet min/2nd round pick player

+ Future picks for trading away #22, #27, TLC and Korkmaz

warfelg
06-12-2018, 06:36 PM
Yes because in A and B we can have max cap space in 2019 as well, we aren't trading away 8 years of team control for 2 years, and we aren't adding depth at 2 places where we are actually ok at.

Oakmont_4
06-12-2018, 06:54 PM
Yes because in A and B we can have max cap space in 2019 as well, we aren't trading away 8 years of team control for 2 years, and we aren't adding depth at 2 places where we are actually ok at.

How are you going to have MAX cap space in 2019 with option A? George/Embiid/Simmons/Fultz alone accounts for $75M on a $108M cap. When you put roster holds on the other 8 spots the max amount of money you can clear out if you let EVERYONE else go (included your 2 rookies from the previous year) is $26M.

Yeah option B you can clear the MAX space that you didn't spend this year.

In either scenario I don't see how it's better short or long term vs. scenario C


Option A. You get a MAX which you also have in option C but with a worse bench. You're literally not going to take Rozier and Morris cause you want to keep TLC and Korkmaz. That's insane. I'll also repeat, Option A you cannot clear enough cap for another MAX in 2019.

Option B. You have the same team as last year + 2 rookies. Doubt your season unfolds any better than this years. And can try the Free Agent market 1 more time.

warfelg
06-12-2018, 07:11 PM
Of course you don't see because what you are suggesting is far more beneficial to you than us.

Pick #10 and 4/5 years of rookie deal and 4/5 years off RFA

OR

Rozier on a 1 year with RFA and Morris with a 1 year at $5mil then URFA

Most, almost all teams take the pick. Team control, maintain our max space availability for the next 2 years, don't trade away 8-10 years of a player for 1 year of 2 players.

The reason you are so hot on it is this is a far better deal for the Celtics than it is for the Sixers overall. We would be insane to do that deal. And we're highly unlikely to pull an in division deal like that ever again.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 05:43 AM
Of course you don't see because what you are suggesting is far more beneficial to you than us.

Pick #10 and 4/5 years of rookie deal and 4/5 years off RFA

OR

Rozier on a 1 year with RFA and Morris with a 1 year at $5mil then URFA

Most, almost all teams take the pick. Team control, maintain our max space availability for the next 2 years, don't trade away 8-10 years of a player for 1 year of 2 players.

The reason you are so hot on it is this is a far better deal for the Celtics than it is for the Sixers overall. We would be insane to do that deal. And we're highly unlikely to pull an in division deal like that ever again.

I'm not hot on it at all. I just find it comical at this point. You're choosing Bridges/Korkmaz/TLC over Rozier/Morris and 2-3 future firsts. Control isn't an issue...If you want to be a successful playoff team, you need proven guys. Look at GS bench and tell me what you see. Look at CLE bench. You're not rebuilding anymore.

You're just upset because I've disproved your notions of your own teams cap on multiple occasions now. You keep making claims that are just factually inaccurate.

And you want to talk about controllable rookie contracts....I got those for you too. Because trading #22, #27 TLC and Korkmaz likely has you 2-3 first round picks moving forward to backfill your roster with your coveted controllable rookie contracts.

In reality, I hope PHI shares your mindset. It'll make Boston's run the next 4-5 years much easier. You keep your rookie contracts, we'll go after the better players.

warfelg
06-13-2018, 07:38 AM
I'm not hot on it at all. I just find it comical at this point. You're choosing Bridges/Korkmaz/TLC over Rozier/Morris and 2-3 future firsts. Control isn't an issue...If you want to be a successful playoff team, you need proven guys. Look at GS bench and tell me what you see. Look at CLE bench. You're not rebuilding anymore.

No I'm favoring flexibility for 1. Yes control is an issue. Trading a top 10 pick for a guy that's a RFA in 1 season and likely in the way to a $10-15mil a year contract (which would put us in the tax at that point) and 1 season of a URFA (who would likely get $10-15mil and put us in the tax) is silly. What it does is gives up flexibility for 2 players that we would either have to (1) let walk and get nothing back for while being unable to replace them due to being over the cap OR (2) put ourselves in the tax, loading up on the contracts, and being locked into a roster for 3-5 years. And if that roster isn't good enough, we're stuck.


You're just upset because I've disproved your notions of your own teams cap on multiple occasions now. You keep making claims that are just factually inaccurate.

No you haven't because you keep skipping and leaving stuff out.

Our Current situation with cap holds looks like this:
Embiid - $25,250,000
Covington - $10,464,092
Bayless - $8,575,916
Fultz - $8339,880
Simmons - $6,434,520
Saric - $2,526,840
Anderson - $2,516,048
Korkmaz - $1,740,000
Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option)
McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option)
Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360
ACTIVE ROSTER CAP - $70,494,696
Redick - $27,600,000
Johnson - $13,200,000
Belinelli - $1,544,951
Ilyasova - $1,544,951
Roster Charge (1 spot) - $831,927
CAP HOLDS - $44,721,829
TOTAL CAP ALLOCATION - $115,216,525

So right away we have to renounce everyone for the practical cap space of $30,505,304.

So if we do this deal, we would have to first renounce JJ Redick; Johnson, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are likely going to be renounced anyways but they don't take us low enough to take on the deal.

So if we take on this deal you are suggesting of Rozier/Morris/27 for 10, that means our active cap number becomes $78,920,086, and add in the 3 roster holds at $831,927 and we're at $81,415,867. Let's say we manage to find someone to take Bayless+23 for the rights to a player so we don't have money tied to anyone. Active cap + holds would become $73,671,878. That's still almost $4mil short of Paul Georges max contract. Accounting for holds that would mean trading out Anderson, Korkmaz, TLC without bringing a single dollar back in, to take us to $70,465,251. We would still be short.

So at that point we have 0 chance at LeBron because without a dramatic salary cutting move (trading Covington/Fultz without bringing back a single contract). We also massively depleted our roster for PG13 because we would have to not pick up the options on Holmes and McConnell walk.

And what hurts even more is if you do all that work and you don't get one of those max contracts. Because if you do all that work and neither come (I get you would wait to know one of them is coming before doing one of those deals) would leave us with:
Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
???
Covington
Saric - Morris
Embiid

And that's it. Nothing else.

Even if we don't do a bunch of the subsequent moves it's:
Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
JJ (??) - TLC - Forkmaz
Covington - Anderson
Saric - Morris
Embiid

And best case you are likely looking at:
Simmons - Rozier - ???
Fultz (if good with the shoulder) - ??? - ???
George - ??? - ????
Saric - Morris - ???
Embiid - ??? - Boldin

Eh. That's not getting much further than we did this year TBH.

On the flip, we could be talking about doing the following:
Keep pick 10. Trade 27 and Bayless for no contracts at all on draft night. Turn down the option to Holmes. Turn down cap holds other than JJ Redick. Gives us an effective cap space of about $38million. I would be ok if we did the same with TLC TBH, giving us close to $40mil in effective cap space.

Not renouncing the cap holds for JJ? Well this is where an order of operations really helps out. If we have about $40mil in contract space, if we bring in PG13 and his $30mil max we could sign JJ Redick to a 3 year $30mil deal and Paul George to his max, and have our 10th pick. Then we still got the MLE and Non-Tax Payer Mini to bring back Marco and Ersan. In that case you could have:
Simmons - Fultz - TJ
JJ - Belinelli - TLC - Korkmaz
Geroge - Covington - Anderson
Saric - Bridges - Ilyasova
Embiid - Min FA - Boldin

Compare that roster to above. Unless you are homering it up for what's best for you, that second roster is much much better. Covington, Fultz, Bridges on the bench give us the length and athleticism that we were missing before. Redick, George, Belinelli, Ilyasova give us that playoff vet presence that you would be claiming that we get with Rozier and Morris. We aren't looking at putting ourselves into the tax right away. If you sign Beli, Illy, and an Embiid Backup to only 1 year deals, you are keeping flexibility there. Because in 2 years we got Simmons and Saric coming up for deals. We take on Rozier and Morris, and we kept both after 1 year that means that we would be paying an absurd tax to keep both of those guys and Simmons and Saric.


And you want to talk about controllable rookie contracts....I got those for you too. Because trading #22, #27 TLC and Korkmaz likely has you 2-3 first round picks moving forward to backfill your roster with your coveted controllable rookie contracts.

That's assuming you can use a late 1st and a salary dump to bring back 1st round contracts.


In reality, I hope PHI shares your mindset. It'll make Boston's run the next 4-5 years much easier. You keep your rookie contracts, we'll go after the better players.

It's funny that you say that because we're the team with the flat out max space and a top 10 pick this year and you.....aren't.

Yes we will keep those contracts because it's what's put us in this place and giving us the flexibility to make these moves. And the fact that they have 2-4 years to having to makes these big decisions is huge. Giving that up for potential 1 year rental players is flat out stupid. Especially with the type of offseason that we have on the line.

hugepatsfan
06-13-2018, 07:57 AM
You canít sign a player with cap space and still have a MLE and bi-annual exception. You use cap space andnyou get just a room exception.

hugepatsfan
06-13-2018, 08:02 AM
I think

Simmons / Rozier
Redick / Fultz
PG or LBJ / RoCo
Saric / Morris
Embiid / Holmes

Is a SENSATATIONAL rotation. The extra ball ya fling of Rozier and even Morris make you guys tougher to defend than just Simmons surrounded by shooters. I love the defensive versatility too.

However, the trade would have to happen before FA and if PG/LBJ both go elsewhere this deal makes it hard to try for a max again next year. It also has luxury tax implication.

Like I said, I think Rozier is worth a mid 1st based on past comparable. #10 is a bit too high but not a ton. And adding Morris / #27 helps recoup some value. I think itís a fair proposal though itís nkt something Iíd do on either side. PHI is better off the flexibility, Boston is better off with the depth and insurance policies.

warfelg
06-13-2018, 08:03 AM
You canít sign a player with cap space and still have a MLE and bi-annual exception. You use cap space andnyou get just a room exception.

Then we at least keep one of those guys. Still better than gutting the roster.

warfelg
06-13-2018, 08:11 AM
I think

Simmons / Rozier
Redick / Fultz
PG or LBJ / RoCo
Saric / Morris
Embiid / Holmes

Is a SENSATATIONAL rotation. The extra ball ya fling of Rozier and even Morris make you guys tougher to defend than just Simmons surrounded by shooters. I love the defensive versatility too.

However, the trade would have to happen before FA and if PG/LBJ both go elsewhere this deal makes it hard to try for a max again next year. It also has luxury tax implication.

Like I said, I think Rozier is worth a mid 1st based on past comparable. #10 is a bit too high but not a ton. And adding Morris / #27 helps recoup some value. I think itís a fair proposal though itís nkt something Iíd do on either side. PHI is better off the flexibility, Boston is better off with the depth and insurance policies.

Definitely don't think it's unfair, but your hitting right on my argument. If we miss, this takes us out of max space in 2019 and has luxury tax implications. It's one of those deals what quickly makes sense, but the deeper you look into it, both teams are better off staying put.

The better draft rumor(s) to talk about is 2 and 5 are on the table; Boston is interest in Mo Bamba to a high level and are looking to make a deal from whats reported.

Sacramento at 2 wants young players, Dallas at 5 wants playoff ready players.

Brown/Tatum; Oje/Yabu; Top 5 protect their own 2019 pick or becomes Bostons own; 27 for 2 work?
Morris; Brown; 27 for 5?

TheDish87
06-13-2018, 09:15 AM
Redick+Rozier+Morris is better than Redick + Bridges. At least for 1 year...Probably 2. If Bridges pans out he's likely better in year 3.

To draft at 10 and sign a MAX Redick is gone anyways unless comes back for the MLE. Which is he does, you can come back on an MLE in my scenario as well.

i think you are missing the fact that we dont believe Rozier or Morris are good fits, its really as simple as we dont need them. Like I said its more imporatnt to keep 2 of our free aent shooters between Reddick, Belli, and Illy while Fultz steps into a much larger role and we get a rookie scale deal with whoever we take at 10. Why rent Rozier and Morris when they wont make much impact overall?

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-13-2018, 11:32 AM
I think he has the best chance of anyone in this draft to be.

I'd say Ayton has the best chance. His defense is a question mark to some degree, but his size, athleticism and offensive skill is pretty air tight for a scoring big. Plus he can rebound. He might not fit the modern NBA as well as Doncic because quite frankly I don't know if any scoring center truly fits into the modern NBA especially when compared to a playmaking wing.

With that said, even if he's not a perfectly ideal fit in today's NBA superstar, that doesn't mean he won't be a superstar. I'd still characterize Towns and Cousins as superstars and I think Ayton has a very good chance to be that type of player.

More upside with Doncic just because of his style of play and how valuable it is in the league right now, but a better chance to become a superstar? I'll say Ayton is more likely to be that kind of talent. If you mean who has a better chance to being beyond a superstar and can be an all timer who makes everyone around him better and can lead a team on his back to championship contention... then I'll agree with you. But I think the odds are still low on that. They are extremely low for that criteria for any prospect. I'll say this though, even if Doncic just turns out to be a Gordon Heyward type, that still might be just as valuable as if Ayton because a superstar center because of versatility and style of play because unless Ayton shows he can be a defensive stud (his biggest question/flaw) then he'll always run into matchup problems against the better teams.

So basically, I prefer Doncic even though I think Ayton has a better chance to become a superstar because if Doncic does actually become a superstar or even a semi-superstar, it'll probably be easier to build a winning team around him.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 11:33 AM
No I'm favoring flexibility for 1. Yes control is an issue. Trading a top 10 pick for a guy that's a RFA in 1 season and likely in the way to a $10-15mil a year contract (which would put us in the tax at that point) and 1 season of a URFA (who would likely get $10-15mil and put us in the tax) is silly. What it does is gives up flexibility for 2 players that we would either have to (1) let walk and get nothing back for while being unable to replace them due to being over the cap OR (2) put ourselves in the tax, loading up on the contracts, and being locked into a roster for 3-5 years. And if that roster isn't good enough, we're stuck.



No you haven't because you keep skipping and leaving stuff out.

Our Current situation with cap holds looks like this:
Embiid - $25,250,000
Covington - $10,464,092
Bayless - $8,575,916
Fultz - $8339,880
Simmons - $6,434,520
Saric - $2,526,840
Anderson - $2,516,048
Korkmaz - $1,740,000
Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option)
McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option)
Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360
ACTIVE ROSTER CAP - $70,494,696
Redick - $27,600,000
Johnson - $13,200,000
Belinelli - $1,544,951
Ilyasova - $1,544,951
Roster Charge (1 spot) - $831,927
CAP HOLDS - $44,721,829
TOTAL CAP ALLOCATION - $115,216,525

So right away we have to renounce everyone for the practical cap space of $30,505,304.

So if we do this deal, we would have to first renounce JJ Redick; Johnson, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are likely going to be renounced anyways but they don't take us low enough to take on the deal.

So if we take on this deal you are suggesting of Rozier/Morris/27 for 10, that means our active cap number becomes $78,920,086, and add in the 3 roster holds at $831,927 and we're at $81,415,867. Let's say we manage to find someone to take Bayless+23 for the rights to a player so we don't have money tied to anyone. Active cap + holds would become $73,671,878. That's still almost $4mil short of Paul Georges max contract. Accounting for holds that would mean trading out Anderson, Korkmaz, TLC without bringing a single dollar back in, to take us to $70,465,251. We would still be short.

So at that point we have 0 chance at LeBron because without a dramatic salary cutting move (trading Covington/Fultz without bringing back a single contract). We also massively depleted our roster for PG13 because we would have to not pick up the options on Holmes and McConnell walk.

And what hurts even more is if you do all that work and you don't get one of those max contracts. Because if you do all that work and neither come (I get you would wait to know one of them is coming before doing one of those deals) would leave us with:
Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
???
Covington
Saric - Morris
Embiid

And that's it. Nothing else.

Even if we don't do a bunch of the subsequent moves it's:
Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
JJ (??) - TLC - Forkmaz
Covington - Anderson
Saric - Morris
Embiid

And best case you are likely looking at:
Simmons - Rozier - ???
Fultz (if good with the shoulder) - ??? - ???
George - ??? - ????
Saric - Morris - ???
Embiid - ??? - Boldin

Eh. That's not getting much further than we did this year TBH.

On the flip, we could be talking about doing the following:
Keep pick 10. Trade 27 and Bayless for no contracts at all on draft night. Turn down the option to Holmes. Turn down cap holds other than JJ Redick. Gives us an effective cap space of about $38million. I would be ok if we did the same with TLC TBH, giving us close to $40mil in effective cap space.

Not renouncing the cap holds for JJ? Well this is where an order of operations really helps out. If we have about $40mil in contract space, if we bring in PG13 and his $30mil max we could sign JJ Redick to a 3 year $30mil deal and Paul George to his max, and have our 10th pick. Then we still got the MLE and Non-Tax Payer Mini to bring back Marco and Ersan. In that case you could have:
Simmons - Fultz - TJ
JJ - Belinelli - TLC - Korkmaz
Geroge - Covington - Anderson
Saric - Bridges - Ilyasova
Embiid - Min FA - Boldin

Compare that roster to above. Unless you are homering it up for what's best for you, that second roster is much much better. Covington, Fultz, Bridges on the bench give us the length and athleticism that we were missing before. Redick, George, Belinelli, Ilyasova give us that playoff vet presence that you would be claiming that we get with Rozier and Morris. We aren't looking at putting ourselves into the tax right away. If you sign Beli, Illy, and an Embiid Backup to only 1 year deals, you are keeping flexibility there. Because in 2 years we got Simmons and Saric coming up for deals. We take on Rozier and Morris, and we kept both after 1 year that means that we would be paying an absurd tax to keep both of those guys and Simmons and Saric.



That's assuming you can use a late 1st and a salary dump to bring back 1st round contracts.



It's funny that you say that because we're the team with the flat out max space and a top 10 pick this year and you.....aren't.

Yes we will keep those contracts because it's what's put us in this place and giving us the flexibility to make these moves. And the fact that they have 2-4 years to having to makes these big decisions is huge. Giving that up for potential 1 year rental players is flat out stupid. Especially with the type of offseason that we have on the line.

You need to read up on how the cap works. That is all...

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 11:35 AM
i think you are missing the fact that we dont believe Rozier or Morris are good fits, its really as simple as we dont need them. Like I said its more imporatnt to keep 2 of our free aent shooters between Reddick, Belli, and Illy while Fultz steps into a much larger role and we get a rookie scale deal with whoever we take at 10. Why rent Rozier and Morris when they wont make much impact overall?

But you can keep your shooters and add them. The argument that having good, playoff experienced veterans is not going to help is laughable.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 11:37 AM
Definitely don't think it's unfair, but your hitting right on my argument. If we miss, this takes us out of max space in 2019 and has luxury tax implications. It's one of those deals what quickly makes sense, but the deeper you look into it, both teams are better off staying put.

The better draft rumor(s) to talk about is 2 and 5 are on the table; Boston is interest in Mo Bamba to a high level and are looking to make a deal from whats reported.

Sacramento at 2 wants young players, Dallas at 5 wants playoff ready players.

Brown/Tatum; Oje/Yabu; Top 5 protect their own 2019 pick or becomes Bostons own; 27 for 2 work?
Morris; Brown; 27 for 5?

We don't need to get to 2, there's no need to spend the extra assets to get that pick.

#5 is interesting, but I'd pretty much only be willing to offer Brown - nothing else.

warfelg
06-13-2018, 11:39 AM
You need to read up on how the cap works. That is all...

There;s literally been dozens of Philly writers talking about this and laying out almost the exact same thing.

All I'm getting from you is you thing gutting the roster and adding two rental players that overacheived is a great move. Even another Celtics fan disagreed with you.

Rivera
06-13-2018, 11:50 AM
i personally love Luka Doncic I love this kids moxy, his competitiveness and his overall game. Dude is great. My biggest question mark for him is his lateral quickness. He doesnt seem like the fastest or quickest guy, at times he looks slow footed. Idk if thats just his game, idk if its the international game but thats my biggest worry with Luka

warfelg
06-13-2018, 11:54 AM
And last time letís rehash too:

Celtics benefit: clear $6+ mil in contracts, create space for keeping Marcus Smart/Baynes, add a good bench player, and clear up room that next offseason to retain Irving and extend Brown.

Sixers benefit: add cap, potentially prevent a max contract, need to gut roster for a max contract, donít have cap flexibility in 2019, trade away 8 years of player control for 1. Because vets.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 12:01 PM
No you haven't because you keep skipping and leaving stuff out.

Sorry, didn't think I had to spell out every move. Logic pretty much explains it when you use it.


Our Current situation with cap holds looks like this:
Embiid - $25,250,000
Covington - $10,464,092
Bayless - $8,575,916
Fultz - $8339,880
Simmons - $6,434,520
Saric - $2,526,840
Anderson - $2,516,048
Korkmaz - $1,740,000
Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option)
McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option)
Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360
ACTIVE ROSTER CAP - $70,494,696
Redick - $27,600,000
Johnson - $13,200,000
Belinelli - $1,544,951
Ilyasova - $1,544,951
Roster Charge (1 spot) - $831,927
CAP HOLDS - $44,721,829
TOTAL CAP ALLOCATION - $115,216,525

Yup


So right away we have to renounce everyone for the practical cap space of $30,505,304.

So if we do this deal, we would have to first renounce JJ Redick; Johnson, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are likely going to be renounced anyways but they don't take us low enough to take on the deal.

Yes, which you'd have to do all of the above to chase a MAX anyways whether this deal is completed or not. So I don't understand why it's even part of the discussion.


So if we take on this deal you are suggesting of Rozier/Morris/27 for 10, that means our active cap number becomes $78,920,086, and add in the 3 roster holds at $831,927 and we're at $81,415,867. Let's say we manage to find someone to take Bayless+23 for the rights to a player so we don't have money tied to anyone. Active cap + holds would become $73,671,878. That's still almost $4mil short of Paul Georges max contract. Accounting for holds that would mean trading out Anderson, Korkmaz, TLC without bringing a single dollar back in, to take us to $70,465,251. We would still be short.

Yes. It would be fairly easy to trade sophomore first round picks for at worst a 2nd round pick and take no salary. Trading those 3 is simple...But you can actually keep Anderson (as long as the target isn't Bron). These deals don't need to be completed until a commitment is made by the Free Agent - see Hayward signing and then C's trading Bradley after the fact to make the cap space. So up to this point you don't need to trade anyone until you have a commitment. If you get one - these 3 will be traded easily.


So at that point we have 0 chance at LeBron because without a dramatic salary cutting move (trading Covington/Fultz without bringing back a single contract). We also massively depleted our roster for PG13 because we would have to not pick up the options on Holmes and McConnell walk.

Untrue. You can have a comittment from a Free Agent and then clear the space. No dramatic moves needed.

Let's say George commits. He's willing to become a Sixer. His number is $30.3M on a 4year max

Numbers assume #22 and Bayless traded draft night in salary dump (smart move either way IMO)

Embiid - $25,250,000
Covington - $10,464,092
Fultz - $8339,880
Simmons - $6,434,520
Morris - $5,250,000
Rozier - $3,050,390
Saric - $2,526,840
Holmes - $1,600,520 (team option pick up)
McConnell - $1,600,520 (team option pick up)

+ 2 roster holds = $96,605,616


Trade for 2nd round picks
Anderson - $2,516,048
Korkmaz - $1,740,000
Luwawu-Cabarrot - $1,446,360


And what hurts even more is if you do all that work and you don't get one of those max contracts. Because if you do all that work and neither come (I get you would wait to know one of them is coming before doing one of those deals) would leave us with:

The only work done to that point would be trading #10, #22 and Bayless and getting Rozier and Morris.


Simmons - Rozier - Fultz
???
Covington
Saric - Morris
Embiid

And that's it. Nothing else.

Add in Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, TLC, Anderson cause you don't have to move any of them until you have a commitment.



And best case you are likely looking at:
Simmons - Rozier - ???
Fultz (if good with the shoulder) - ??? - ???
George - ??? - ????
Saric - Morris - ???
Embiid - ??? - Boldin

Add in Holmes, McConnell, JJ can be re-signed. Ily and Beli could even be signed to minimum contracts.


Eh. That's not getting much further than we did this year TBH.

Simmons - Rozier - McConnell
Redick/Fultz (if good with the shoulder)/Belinelli
George - Morris- ????
Saric - Ilyasova- ???
Embiid - Holmes- Boldin

That's an ECF finals team with LeBron out west. Without a doubt. Clearly better than last years team. How can you even argue otherwise?


On the flip, we could be talking about doing the following:

Simmons - Fultz - TJ
JJ - Belinelli - TLC - Korkmaz
Geroge - Covington - Anderson
Saric - Bridges - Ilyasova
Embiid - Min FA - Boldin

Above roster has a much better bench. Roster above will go further than this one.




That's assuming you can use a late 1st and a salary dump to bring back 1st round contracts.

Why wouldn't first rounders now and Sophmore former first rounders with upside not bring in a first?


It's funny that you say that because we're the team with the flat out max space and a top 10 pick this year and you.....aren't.

Great. We're still the better team with multiple first next year and plenty of assets.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 12:03 PM
There;s literally been dozens of Philly writers talking about this and laying out almost the exact same thing.

All I'm getting from you is you thing gutting the roster and adding two rental players that overacheived is a great move. Even another Celtics fan disagreed with you.

Losing Korkmaz and TLC is gutting the roster? Can you even read?

Me an HPF disagree quite often. We're both adept at how the cap works...He pointed out flaws in your mock as well. Me and HPF see things differently, there's nothing wrong with that. He also said it was a fair trade - something you've done nothing but scoff at and make ridiculous and false remarks like the second sentence of this post.

Oakmont_4
06-13-2018, 12:07 PM
And last time letís rehash too:

Celtics benefit: clear $6+ mil in contracts, create space for keeping Marcus Smart/Baynes, add a good bench player, and clear up room that next offseason to retain Irving and extend Brown.

The benefit to the C's is more in breaking up a log jam of roster minutes we currently have if Smart is brought back. I have no fears about going into the luxury tax and neither does this ownership group. To compete with GS it's going to be a requirement. So might want to get on that. We can retain all of the said player (Rozier, Baynes, Smart and Irving) without doing this trade. We can't however make NBA games longer to carve out enough minute for everyone.


Sixers benefit: add cap, potentially prevent a max contract, need to gut roster for a max contract, donít have cap flexibility in 2019, trade away 8 years of player control for 1. Because vets.

1. Not adding any cap that can't be fixed (hence doesn't make it impossible to sign a max)
2. No gutting of roster unless losing TLC and Korkmaz is gutting a roster - 2 players you even said didn't mind seeing go.
3. Still have cap flex in 2019 because Morris and Rozier are both Free Agents
4. Yes. Experience in playoffs is huge. It's why PHI lost in 5 games. It's why BOS couldn't topple CLE.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-13-2018, 12:40 PM
i personally love Luka Doncic I love this kids moxy, his competitiveness and his overall game. Dude is great. My biggest question mark for him is his lateral quickness. He doesnt seem like the fastest or quickest guy, at times he looks slow footed. Idk if thats just his game, idk if its the international game but thats my biggest worry with Luka

That's everyone's biggest concern. Although his shot selection is another one. I suppose he can fix this but for a guy who shoots close to 60% from 2pt and close to 30% from 3pt, half his FG attempts probably shouldn't be 3pt. He also might be a bit turnover prone as well.

But overall, he was basically just as impressive as Ayton and Bagley if you adjust for minutes per game and he did it in a tougher league, so he has that going for him. He was less efficient, but we are comparing him to bigs and as I mentioned, he shot way too many threes which brought down his efficiency. He also fits today's NBA of a playmaking wing with above average size so he has that going for him as well.

I won't blame Phoenix for taking Ayton first overall, but the upside of Doncic is higher IMO. Probably a bit riskier though due to the lateral quickness. Fits into the stereotype too of European prospects who have success in Europe. Doncic with those lateral quickness concerns will be defended against the best athletes in the world who have quickness and length which will be a hurdle for him whereas Ayton doesn't face those questions nearly as much since he'll be bigger and quicker than most guys who will be guarding him.

Scoots
06-13-2018, 12:47 PM
Oak, War ... I think it's not working. You are talking in circles and are not going to agree.

TheDish87
06-13-2018, 01:58 PM
But you can keep your shooters and add them. The argument that having good, playoff experienced veterans is not going to help is laughable.

we have good playoff experienced vets though and again why should we give up the 10th pick to rent 2 players we likely have no interest in retaining?

HunterNRoss
06-14-2018, 11:52 AM
Shams Charania@ShamsCharania
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouriís Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.

JLynn943
06-14-2018, 12:16 PM
Shams Charania@ShamsCharania
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouriís Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.

Comes out right after a report about the Kings being interested in taking him at #2. Can't imagine this bodes well for that, but who knows.

Bostonjorge
06-14-2018, 12:20 PM
Comes out right after a report about the Kings being interested in taking him at #2. Can't imagine this bodes well for that, but who knows.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2781065-michael-porter-jr-reportedly-could-be-taken-no-2-in-2018-nba-draft-by-kings.amp.html

Mr.B
06-14-2018, 05:54 PM
We don't need to get to 2, there's no need to spend the extra assets to get that pick.

#5 is interesting, but I'd pretty much only be willing to offer Brown - nothing else.

I donít see Dallas doing that. I also wouldnít believe the rumor that Dallas is willing to trade 5 for playoffs ready players. There is tons of smoke being blown this time of year. Iíd be shocked if Dallas traded that pick for anything that wasnít a clear win for them.

Iíve seen people kicking around the idea of Mavs trading #5/Wes Matthews for #8/Love. Dallas is rumored to like Wendell Carter who they could easily get at 8.

Another one Iíve read is #5/Wes for #7/#22 from the Bulls.

Scoots
06-14-2018, 06:21 PM
Saw a draft preview and under needs 24 teams had "shooting" ... well gee thanks for that incisive analysis. :)

TrueFan420
06-15-2018, 01:20 AM
Comes out right after a report about the Kings being interested in taking him at #2. Can't imagine this bodes well for that, but who knows.
**** I were him I'd opt for surgery over the Kings too

Oakmont_4
06-15-2018, 06:24 AM
I donít see Dallas doing that. I also wouldnít believe the rumor that Dallas is willing to trade 5 for playoffs ready players. There is tons of smoke being blown this time of year. Iíd be shocked if Dallas traded that pick for anything that wasnít a clear win for them.

Iíve seen people kicking around the idea of Mavs trading #5/Wes Matthews for #8/Love. Dallas is rumored to like Wendell Carter who they could easily get at 8.

Another one Iíve read is #5/Wes for #7/#22 from the Bulls.


I'm not even so sure the C's should trade Brown for #5. It's just interesting when considering roster construction and contracts for us. I think it would actually be a clear win for DAL. Brown would be a top 3 pick in this draft.

warfelg
06-15-2018, 08:18 AM
I'm not even so sure the C's should trade Brown for #5. It's just interesting when considering roster construction and contracts for us. I think it would actually be a clear win for DAL. Brown would be a top 3 pick in this draft.

Talking Brown as he is now, or as he was coming out? Because as he was coming out I think he would be behind a few guys.

I think that the trade depends on the value and construction of what they want moving forward. When Horford is playing the 5 you guys could struggle a bit. But when he was at the 4 it opened things up some more. Does Ainge look at Tatum and think that if he brings back Smart that the need for Brown isn't as great because with that because with Irving and Hayward coming back that someone in the wing rotation would step back? Could mean that to him a sacrifice of Brown to add a 4-8 year solution at the 5 might be worth it.

Oakmont_4
06-15-2018, 09:40 AM
Talking Brown as he is now, or as he was coming out? Because as he was coming out I think he would be behind a few guys.

I think both. As he is right now, he's likely #1. As he was coming out probably #3 behind Ayton and maybe Jackson. I think he's ahead of Doncic, who I don't think is great. He'd be ahead of Porter due to his injury history and Browns superior D and athleticism. I think he's about equal to Bamba, hard to compare because of position but an elite wing is a more highly sought after position than an elite C. So yeah I think he's a top 3 pick in this years draft no matter how you look at it.


I think that the trade depends on the value and construction of what they want moving forward. When Horford is playing the 5 you guys could struggle a bit. But when he was at the 4 it opened things up some more. Does Ainge look at Tatum and think that if he brings back Smart that the need for Brown isn't as great because with that because with Irving and Hayward coming back that someone in the wing rotation would step back? Could mean that to him a sacrifice of Brown to add a 4-8 year solution at the 5 might be worth it.

Yes, absolutely. We only struggled with Horford at the 5 against certain teams/players...Others we were better with Horford at the 5. Against PHI and a big like Embiid, we want Horford at the 4. Even CLE with a tough/big/gritty defender like Thompson gave us problems. Against a team like GS though, we'd play Horford at the 5 and be better off.

We're deep at the wing. With Hayward here for another 3 years and Tatum probably life long and on track to be a top 5 wing in the NBA (IMO of course) Brown is more of a luxury. I do believe Smart factors in as well...He's a defensive specialist who can guard 1-4 who I hope is back. None of this diminishes Brown as a player but it does kind of make him the most expendable at a position that is flush with talent. Our bigs behind Horford are barren and Horford isn't getting any younger. It'd be a wise move to draft someone now to groom behind Horford that can eventually be our long term solution.

Also by moving Brown for a top pick makes sense financially. It delays us 2 years off Browns inevitable max contract. Which will help when we transition from Hayward/Horford to Tatum/Rookie C contract wise.

Of course all this only makes sense if we're bringing in a big that is close to or at the talent level of Brown. To trade Brown for a C that won't be as good obviously doesn't make sense. But If you get a guy who can have the same impact and ceiling as Brown at a position of need just makes sense. It's a gamble no doubt, but if they hit on the pick it's a huge win.

warfelg
06-15-2018, 11:06 AM
I think both. As he is right now, he's likely #1. As he was coming out probably #3 behind Ayton and maybe Jackson. I think he's ahead of Doncic, who I don't think is great. He'd be ahead of Porter due to his injury history and Browns superior D and athleticism. I think he's about equal to Bamba, hard to compare because of position but an elite wing is a more highly sought after position than an elite C. So yeah I think he's a top 3 pick in this years draft no matter how you look at it.

I disagree there but more because bigs always hold more value than wings.


Yes, absolutely. We only struggled with Horford at the 5 against certain teams/players...Others we were better with Horford at the 5. Against PHI and a big like Embiid, we want Horford at the 4. Even CLE with a tough/big/gritty defender like Thompson gave us problems. Against a team like GS though, we'd play Horford at the 5 and be better off.

Don't disagree at all, but a mobile 5 can really help out. And GS played far less of that small ball as teams are going big again.


We're deep at the wing. With Hayward here for another 3 years and Tatum probably life long and on track to be a top 5 wing in the NBA (IMO of course) Brown is more of a luxury. I do believe Smart factors in as well...He's a defensive specialist who can guard 1-4 who I hope is back. None of this diminishes Brown as a player but it does kind of make him the most expendable at a position that is flush with talent. Our bigs behind Horford are barren and Horford isn't getting any younger. It'd be a wise move to draft someone now to groom behind Horford that can eventually be our long term solution.

Agreed....not a knock on Brown to say that for your team construction a 4/5 will be more valuable than a 3.


Also by moving Brown for a top pick makes sense financially. It delays us 2 years off Browns inevitable max contract. Which will help when we transition from Hayward/Horford to Tatum/Rookie C contract wise.

Yea there's that too.


Of course all this only makes sense if we're bringing in a big that is close to or at the talent level of Brown. To trade Brown for a C that won't be as good obviously doesn't make sense. But If you get a guy who can have the same impact and ceiling as Brown at a position of need just makes sense. It's a gamble no doubt, but if they hit on the pick it's a huge win.

I would say more that even if the talent level is a little dip, a starting level 5 is of bigger value than a bench 2/3/4. So a little less talent for a far better fit for a team in your position would be a great trade off IMO.

Mr.B
06-15-2018, 06:18 PM
I'm not even so sure the C's should trade Brown for #5. It's just interesting when considering roster construction and contracts for us. I think it would actually be a clear win for DAL. Brown would be a top 3 pick in this draft.

Yea I donít see Ainge trading Brown unless the guy coming back was named Kawhi. If Iím the Mavs that is who I would want though. With several teams rumored to be willing to trade down and several other teams wanting to trade up itís going to be really interesting to see what trades actually happen. I wouldnít be surprised at all if the Mavs just end up keeping the 5th pick and taking the best of Bamba, Jackson, Bagley (whoever is left). Although they have been rumored to really like Wendell Carter too so there is an outside chance heís the pick at 5 if Bamba, Bagley and Jackson are gone.

Atlanta could really throw teams for a loop if they like Trae Young as much as they are rumored to and end up taking him at 3.

IKnowHoops
06-15-2018, 07:25 PM
Tatum reminds me of Micheal B Jordan.

zn23
06-16-2018, 12:10 AM
If Doncic goes to Sacramento, his career is officially over before it begins.

That's probably the only place in the top 5 where he can't succeed because they'd have way too many guards and him and Fox both need the ball. He's not physically big enough to just play at SF he has to be a point guard or SG. Most ideal spot imo would be on ATL or on Memphis.

GoferKing_
06-16-2018, 06:58 AM
If Doncic goes to Sacramento, his career is officially over before it begins.

That's probably the only place in the top 5 where he can't succeed because they'd have way too many guards and him and Fox both need the ball. He's not physically big enough to just play at SF he has to be a point guard or SG. Most ideal spot imo would be on ATL or on Memphis.

Quit pretending that you watched the Kings. Fox plays very good off the ball. Which was evident when Bogs was the creator. Luka will fit there fine.

IKnowHoops
06-16-2018, 03:21 PM
Quit pretending that you watched the Kings. Fox plays very good off the ball. Which was evident when Bogs was the creator. Luka will fit there fine.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZUz4C6kqk

Oakmont_4
06-18-2018, 06:18 AM
Yea I donít see Ainge trading Brown unless the guy coming back was named Kawhi. If Iím the Mavs that is who I would want though. With several teams rumored to be willing to trade down and several other teams wanting to trade up itís going to be really interesting to see what trades actually happen. I wouldnít be surprised at all if the Mavs just end up keeping the 5th pick and taking the best of Bamba, Jackson, Bagley (whoever is left). Although they have been rumored to really like Wendell Carter too so there is an outside chance heís the pick at 5 if Bamba, Bagley and Jackson are gone.

Atlanta could really throw teams for a loop if they like Trae Young as much as they are rumored to and end up taking him at 3.

I would love a 3 team trade between DAL, BOS and SAS

Boston gets
Kawhi
DSJ
#5

Dallas gets
Kyrie
Morris
#27

SA gets
Brown
Yabusele
Nader
SAC pick
MEM pick
2 future firsts from BOS

Scoots
06-18-2018, 09:49 AM
I would love a 3 team trade between DAL, BOS and SAS

Boston gets
Kawhi
DSJ
#5

Dallas gets
Kyrie
Morris
#27

SA gets
Brown
Yabusele
Nader
SAC pick
MEM pick
2 future firsts from BOS

A rich imagination is, some say, a key to happiness.

warfelg
06-18-2018, 10:12 AM
A rich imagination is, some say, a key to happiness.

Lol.

Oakmont_4
06-18-2018, 12:17 PM
A rich imagination is, some say, a key to happiness.

I guess? I mean just going off rumors here. IF DAL wants win now players - they get them in this scenario. If SAS doesn't want to trade Kawhi to the West and he's demanding a trade that's a great return when you don't have much leverage.

Rivera
06-18-2018, 12:44 PM
cant wait for the draft, looks like a lot of good players too and lots of nba contributors in this draft. Sacto holds the keys at #2 as far as the rest of the draft goes. Ive seen 3 names in most mocks for #2. Luka/Bagley/Bamba

FlashBolt
06-18-2018, 03:28 PM
Mohamed Bamba is 7 ft tall and has an 8-foot wingspan. The center position is making a slow recovery.

Rivera
06-18-2018, 04:56 PM
Mohamed Bamba is 7 ft tall and has an 8-foot wingspan. The center position is making a slow recovery.

its weird because i feel your right but at the same time. it has evolved. you cannot have a slow footed C on your team at all, no matter how good he is around the basket, it will cripple your team.

Cs now a days have to be able to have good foot speed and have the ability to guard guards.

Bamba intrigues me because what I saw in college doesnt match the player I see scouted. Not saying scouts are wrong but its crazy how quick these guys develop or college coaches have the ability to shrink a players talent.

What I mean is, I never saw Mo with an outside touch. When I watched, I saw a defensive wizard. A disuptor.

What I see in the scouts is, good handle good touch on his shot and the ability to extend the 3 point line. Things I did NOT see when he was playing in Texas

its crazy to me, how coaches can shrink a players ability (maybe im saying the wrong thing). But what I mean is, if you watched AD in Kentucky you saw someone who was a selfless team first defensive player with handle and quicks. In the pros, theres nothing AD cant do and he is a fearless leader. Never saw that in college.

FlashBolt
06-18-2018, 05:15 PM
its weird because i feel your right but at the same time. it has evolved. you cannot have a slow footed C on your team at all, no matter how good he is around the basket, it will cripple your team.

Cs now a days have to be able to have good foot speed and have the ability to guard guards.

Bamba intrigues me because what I saw in college doesnt match the player I see scouted. Not saying scouts are wrong but its crazy how quick these guys develop or college coaches have the ability to shrink a players talent.

What I mean is, I never saw Mo with an outside touch. When I watched, I saw a defensive wizard. A disuptor.

What I see in the scouts is, good handle good touch on his shot and the ability to extend the 3 point line. Things I did NOT see when he was playing in Texas

its crazy to me, how coaches can shrink a players ability (maybe im saying the wrong thing). But what I mean is, if you watched AD in Kentucky you saw someone who was a selfless team first defensive player with handle and quicks. In the pros, theres nothing AD cant do and he is a fearless leader. Never saw that in college.

I don't think college basketball really helps these kids anymore. They're all growing up playing organized basketball with other elite level talent of their age for much of their lives. College prep has been pointless for many of these athletes. It used to be that you had to get to college to get that recognition/experience on a national level but any single one of these players could do that without college. LaVar Ball started a JBA league and though I hate the dude from a mentorship aspect, I think those type of leagues that prepare you up until you're ready for the NBA eligibility are the best way to prep a player in today's game.

Regarding the centers recovering into the league, I think the younger breed of centers have adapted to the more modern NBA game and there was a separation of years (06-14) where we didn't really see any elite level centers because it took time for this new breed to develop into who they are now. The 06-14 period of basketball was tricky for centers because no one knew what to get. You get Dwight who was a force from the interior but had nothing to resemble a modern NBA center that most are looking for and then just low quality centers. But it's not just centers. You have KP, Giannis, Ben Simmons, AD, Jokic, Embiid, Cousins, KAT, Gobert. Just a lot of quality big men right now who can do a lot of things for you. I don't think having an elite NBA guard is what you need to win anymore. It'll be who has one of those guys above and can build around them.

Rivera
06-18-2018, 05:29 PM
I don't think college basketball really helps these kids anymore. They're all growing up playing organized basketball with other elite level talent of their age for much of their lives. College prep has been pointless for many of these athletes. It used to be that you had to get to college to get that recognition/experience on a national level but any single one of these players could do that without college. LaVar Ball started a JBA league and though I hate the dude from a mentorship aspect, I think those type of leagues that prepare you up until you're ready for the NBA eligibility are the best way to prep a player in today's game.




I will admit, im not to familiar with the G league rules. I know theres 2 way contracts now but what I mean is. Lets say the Kings draft Bamba straight out of high school. Kings determine, he isnt ready yet to jump to the NBA, that he needs to mature, he needs to develop his game and the Kings dont want to waste a roster spot on Bamba. Could they send him to the G League (like MLB Minor leagues) to get coaches to work with him more extensively, and call him up when hes ready?

MJNetsIsles
06-18-2018, 06:09 PM
Mike Sotto is a horrible source but he mentioned that the Nets wanna move up in this draft and use Carroll,Dinwiddie as assets. But they don't want to take on dead weight deals. Not sure they mean long term or what. Carroll be a $15M expiring contract. They be probably taking 2 years or so in return.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/08/brooklyn-nets-nba-draft-trade-rumors-milwaukee-bucks/

I really really like Spencer Dinwiddie and it would suck to see him go because heís a leader on the court, but if he can be used as a trade asset to get a 1st round pick then you have to pull the trigger.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-18-2018, 06:29 PM
Mohamed Bamba is 7 ft tall and has an 8-foot wingspan. The center position is making a slow recovery.

A lot of the analytics suggest that it's not. This is mainly to do with the fact that the value of the replacement level player at C is the highest among all 5 positions. Therefore, it's harder to separate from the pack and create value at that position.

There is a good argument for not taking a big guy at the top of a draft. It would be like using a high draft pick for a 1B/DH in baseball or a RB in football. Of course, if the guy is special enough, there's an argument for that too.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-18-2018, 06:33 PM
cant wait for the draft, looks like a lot of good players too and lots of nba contributors in this draft. Sacto holds the keys at #2 as far as the rest of the draft goes. Ive seen 3 names in most mocks for #2. Luka/Bagley/Bamba

I think they're taking Doncic. I think the reports that they might pass on him are smokescreens. There is no way Vlade is passing on the top Euro prospect maybe ever. It just doesn't add up, especially since they probably need a good winger with size more than anything.

FlashBolt
06-18-2018, 07:28 PM
A lot of the analytics suggest that it's not. This is mainly to do with the fact that the value of the replacement level player at C is the highest among all 5 positions. Therefore, it's harder to separate from the pack and create value at that position.

There is a good argument for not taking a big guy at the top of a draft. It would be like using a high draft pick for a 1B/DH in baseball or a RB in football. Of course, if the guy is special enough, there's an argument for that too.

What I'm thinking is that there are centers who you need to take a chance on to counter other centers who can dominate your weaker center. There's no need to rush for elite guards. Those guys are an abundance around the league. It's much more difficult to find a center and if the draft has a few, you take the chance and grab the elite capable center.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-18-2018, 08:29 PM
Wings are the most prized commodity right now. Wings with above average size (at least 6'7").

tp13baby
06-18-2018, 09:37 PM
Kroenke willing to just sit on Farieds contract and hit the lux tax. Woj says Denver is finding ways to move up. Iím not big on that...

hugepatsfan
06-18-2018, 09:45 PM
I wouldnít move Jaylen Brown for any player other than Ayton in this draft. Thatís not to say others might not have higher upside. Thatís not to say that might not help more from a roster construction and balance standpoint. But the key with any of them is that weíre talking potential. They could bust. And even if they do pan out youíd expect it to take some progression. I doubt any player - even Ayton - is as good next year as Jaylen Brown. And while Boston seems to have a long window, Horford is aging, Hayward could be allowed to walk in 2 or 3 years rather than extended through his 30s and thereís talk of Kyrie wanting out even if it seems more like gossip than substantiated reporting. Even though Boston is posied to compete for a while their best and cleanest path to win is on the next couple of years where I think Brown is better than any draft pick. And only Ayton Iím so confident and sure enough in the long term upside that itíd be worth a trade.

ThePhBroker
06-18-2018, 10:28 PM
Who is your top 3 picks in the coming NBA draft?

tp13baby
06-19-2018, 12:20 AM
Who is your top 3 picks in the coming NBA draft?

Ayton- floor is Drummond, ceiling is Embiid. I think going to the Suns is a perfect fit with the talent around him.

Doncic- offensively is as good as it gets. Defensively I hate that he is likely to go to Sacramento cause it doesnít fit.

Jackson- I think If Porter didnít have injury questions it would be him. But Jackson can be dominant on both ends of the floor.

Bostonjorge
06-19-2018, 01:12 AM
Who is your top 3 picks in the coming NBA draft?

Bagley - is the most ready scorer in this draft. Heís super athletic so he just needs a coach to bring out his defense potential.

Porter Jr. - heís been climbing up draft boards lately. I donít see him as a reach even at #1.

Ayton - his size and build is why heís going #1. Basically a healthy Embiid who can play 82 games a year.

warfelg
06-19-2018, 07:57 AM
Who is your top 3 picks in the coming NBA draft?

Ayton
Doncic
Bamba

Mr.B
06-19-2018, 09:43 AM
I would love a 3 team trade between DAL, BOS and SAS

Boston gets
Kawhi
DSJ
#5

Dallas gets
Kyrie
Morris
#27

SA gets
Brown
Yabusele
Nader
SAC pick
MEM pick
2 future firsts from BOS

As a Mavs fan I wouldnít love that at all. You want the Mavs to give up their best young player and a top 5 pick? Brown would have to also be coming to the Mavs with Kyrie for that to work for me.

Mr.B
06-19-2018, 09:54 AM
I wouldnít move Jaylen Brown for any player other than Ayton in this draft. Thatís not to say others might not have higher upside. Thatís not to say that might not help more from a roster construction and balance standpoint. But the key with any of them is that weíre talking potential. They could bust. And even if they do pan out youíd expect it to take some progression. I doubt any player - even Ayton - is as good next year as Jaylen Brown. And while Boston seems to have a long window, Horford is aging, Hayward could be allowed to walk in 2 or 3 years rather than extended through his 30s and thereís talk of Kyrie wanting out even if it seems more like gossip than substantiated reporting. Even though Boston is posied to compete for a while their best and cleanest path to win is on the next couple of years where I think Brown is better than any draft pick. And only Ayton Iím so confident and sure enough in the long term upside that itíd be worth a trade.

No one in the top 5 may not be better than Brown in their rookie year but what about 2-3 years down the road? Do you think Brown will be better than every player in this draft for the rest of his career?

tp13baby
06-19-2018, 10:30 AM
The Jaylen Brown hate has come full circle. Imagine Dunn 🤷*♂️

warfelg
06-19-2018, 10:38 AM
1009079836210581504

tp13baby
06-19-2018, 10:52 AM
1009079836210581504

I think Covington is overrated but trading Saric and Roco is asinine. This doesnít make them better.

warfelg
06-19-2018, 11:00 AM
I think Covington is overrated but trading Saric and Roco is asinine. This doesnít make them better.

The tweet is saying teams are asking for them in a move up and Philly is saying no.

Oakmont_4
06-19-2018, 12:13 PM
No one in the top 5 may not be better than Brown in their rookie year but what about 2-3 years down the road? Do you think Brown will be better than every player in this draft for the rest of his career?

Hard to say right now. Not sure if I see any truly elite players in this draft (top 10 NBA players). I think Brown can be as good as any player in this draft the rest of his career. He still has a ways to go though. Year 3 is huge for his development. We'll see if he continues the progression he made from year 1 to 2 or if he flatlines.

Oakmont_4
06-19-2018, 12:14 PM
As a Mavs fan I wouldnít love that at all. You want the Mavs to give up their best young player and a top 5 pick? Brown would have to also be coming to the Mavs with Kyrie for that to work for me.

We would not add Brown to that. A top 10 NBA player when healthy who's 26 and Brown (who's better than DSJ right now) for #5 and DSJ...No way.

Oakmont_4
06-19-2018, 12:17 PM
Who is your top 3 picks in the coming NBA draft?

Ayton
Bagley
JJJ

Scoots
06-19-2018, 01:08 PM
Ayton
Doncic
Bamba

Too high for Bamba. Ayton and Doncic have game video that shows they are worth it. Bamba has made up a lot of ground after the season which is usually a sign of someone getting over-drafted. Not saying he's a bad prospect, just that 3 is probably high for him.

I feel like this draft has 4 can't miss guys (Ayton, Doncic, Jackson, Bagley), and Bamba comes just after them with Porter and Young, then there is another drop off to Bridges.

warfelg
06-19-2018, 01:13 PM
Too high for Bamba. Ayton and Doncic have game video that shows they are worth it. Bamba has made up a lot of ground after the season which is usually a sign of someone getting over-drafted. Not saying he's a bad prospect, just that 3 is probably high for him.

I feel like this draft has 4 can't miss guys (Ayton, Doncic, Jackson, Bagley), and Bamba comes just after them with Porter and Young, then there is another drop off to Bridges.

Iíve been higher than most on Bamba for a while. If he has any bit of a shot heíll be a top 5 center.

Rivera
06-19-2018, 01:35 PM
im becoming more convinced that the Kings are going to take Bagley #2. Which means I believe the top 3 picks selected on Thursday would be, Ayton/Bagley/JJ

my favorite prospects who I think will be the best player in the draft is Doncic / Porter Jr (if he can stay healthy) and Trae Young. I love the ceilings of those players

if Philly can get Mikal Bridges they may win the draft. Hes fantastic and he just plugs right into what they need. He can start from day 1 play great D, shoot the 3 while he works on the rest of his game.

Scoots
06-19-2018, 02:10 PM
Iíve been higher than most on Bamba for a while. If he has any bit of a shot heíll be a top 5 center.

I like Bamba, I'm just naturally suspicious of players who climb this time of year without the film to back it up because it's from him being good in interviews and measuring well and things like that. His potential is incredible ... It's just not enough for me to put him in the top 4 group yet. I may be wrong too.

I think Young is being under-rated at this point too ... but we'll see if the NBA agrees soon enough :)

There are several teams that have suspect decision making (including your Sixers) in the lottery this year so it's mighty hard to predict what IS going to happen.

mgomrjsurf
06-19-2018, 05:35 PM
Ayon with First Pick.
Trading Starts with second pick Kings get 8th pick,Love,Cavs get Leonard,Spurs pick in First round,Spurs get 2nd pick-Parker's replacement,Smith.

WaDe03
06-19-2018, 05:36 PM
I just saw thereís 10,000/1 odds on Liangeli Ball getting drafted. I might have to take a gamble on that one.

HunterNRoss
06-19-2018, 06:10 PM
Ayon with First Pick.
Trading Starts with second pick Kings get 8th pick,Love,Cavs get Leonard,Spurs pick in First round,Spurs get 2nd pick-Parker's replacement,Smith.

Why would Kings make that trade though. They have WCS and Randolph for PF and C. Sure Love is better then Randolph but not worth trading from 2 to 8 for as well as taking on the 20M plus contract. Plus at number 2 they can chose one of several very talented F/C's. If Kings had a roster that was competing for a ring this year then maybe but honestly dont feel losing pick 2 is worth Love/8.

bklynny67
06-19-2018, 06:19 PM
Ayon with First Pick.
Trading Starts with second pick Kings get 8th pick,Love,Cavs get Leonard,Spurs pick in First round,Spurs get 2nd pick-Parker's replacement,Smith.
Are u familiar with where the space bar is and how to put a space after a comma?

mgomrjsurf
06-19-2018, 09:13 PM
But that Trade might keep James in Cleveland if Love doesn't have to be in it but Kings don't need Hill back or even Clarkson but Spurs could use Hill or Clarkson if Parker doesn't resign and don't want Mills as Starter if not Traded.

Hawks Trade a Veteran to get an extra pick. Lots of Trades happen in both rounds. Magic get a local guy from state of Florida.

hugepatsfan
06-19-2018, 10:36 PM
Iím hoping for something quirky where some teams decide they want guards and wings over bigs so one of Carter/Bamba/JJJ fall where the Celtics could move up for one with a packaged of Rozier/SAC pick/MEM pick/#27.

mgomrjsurf
06-19-2018, 10:47 PM
Only way they Trade Rozier is if they keep Smart or think Larkin can backup Irving.
Parsons,Bazemore,JR. Smith,Clarkson or Hill,Mills,Leonard and so on get moved for Picks and so on. A couple guys fall out of top 10 because fills need with a Trade

More-Than-Most
06-19-2018, 11:53 PM
Per NBC10 news tonight here in philly teams want Saric or covington and the 10th pick for the sixers to move into the top 5... if we do that ima be pissed.

Bostonjorge
06-20-2018, 02:06 AM
Per NBC10 news tonight here in philly teams want Saric or covington and the 10th pick for the sixers to move into the top 5... if we do that ima be pissed.

Sixers draft Porter Jr and they become even more scary.

Saddletramp
06-20-2018, 02:23 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-mo-bamba-tells-grizzlies-not-to-draft-him/ar-AAyT0AY?li=BBnba9I

Bamba is telling the Grizzlies not to draft him.


Disappointing if true. I hate how these new guys are trying to dictate where they want to go these days. Then again, I guess itís been going around for some time with certain guys.

More-Than-Most
06-20-2018, 02:34 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-mo-bamba-tells-grizzlies-not-to-draft-him/ar-AAyT0AY?li=BBnba9I

Bamba is telling the Grizzlies not to draft him.


Disappointing if true. I hate how these new guys are trying to dictate where they want to go these days. Then again, I guess itís been going around for some time with certain guys.

It isnt fair... I wish the league would do something about this ****. No player should be able to dictate where they can go until they hit free agency.

corky831
06-20-2018, 06:55 AM
It isnt fair... I wish the league would do something about this ****. No player should be able to dictate where they can go until they hit free agency.

Ehhh **** him then. I wouldn't wanna pick a player that didn't wanna play for my team. It turned out good for the Celtics last year when Ball and Jackson basically said they didn't wanna play for the C's. We gladly took Tatum which I'm extremely happy about. If Jackson was willing to come to Boston though, I have a feeling he would have been the pick because of his defense and athletic ability. Let him rot in PHX lol

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 07:43 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
Also Players get to decided if they want to hire a Agent. Not all underclass men get to declare for Draft. They also don't rotate the Drsft so every year different NBA Arena can host it like they do in NHL and know NFL. Also NBATV can't also show it live with their own crew to

JLynn943
06-20-2018, 08:33 AM
It isnt fair... I wish the league would do something about this ****. No player should be able to dictate where they can go until they hit free agency.

According to Givony and Lowe from ESPN, players (Doncic, Bamba, and JJJ) are pulling the same sort of BS with the Kings. It's extremely frustrating if it's true. The media loves to stir things up and pick on the Kings for being bad for so long though that I question the validity of the story (especially considering Bogdanovic and Doncic are friends).

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-top-nba-draft-prospects-openly-trying-avoid-kings-marvin-bagley-iii-wants-draft-225419368.html

warfelg
06-20-2018, 08:39 AM
According to Givony and Lowe from ESPN, players (Doncic, Bamba, and JJJ) are pulling the same sort of BS with the Kings. It's extremely frustrating if it's true. The media loves to stir things up and pick on the Kings for being bad for so long though that I question the validity of the story (especially considering Bogdanovic and Doncic are friends).

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-top-nba-draft-prospects-openly-trying-avoid-kings-marvin-bagley-iii-wants-draft-225419368.html

I think there's got to be someone in the front office rubbing players or agents the wrong way.

The other think is with Heild and Boggy, Doncic feels like he would be pressed out of time. Could say the same with Bamba and JJJ with WCS, Kufos, Skal, Giles.

Scoots
06-20-2018, 09:00 AM
I think there's got to be someone in the front office rubbing players or agents the wrong way.

The other think is with Heild and Boggy, Doncic feels like he would be pressed out of time. Could say the same with Bamba and JJJ with WCS, Kufos, Skal, Giles.

Steph Curry wanted to be a Knick, he told the Warriors that. They took him anyway. If GMs took the player anyhow the players would maybe stop trying to control things so much.

Scoots
06-20-2018, 09:02 AM
It isnt fair... I wish the league would do something about this ****. No player should be able to dictate where they can go until they hit free agency.

What isn't "fair" about it? The players are free agents until they are drafted and they are not breaking any rules in trying to influence where they are drafted.

tp13baby
06-20-2018, 09:16 AM
Sixers draft Porter Jr and they become even more scary.

And the curse of their first rounder not playing the first season continues... lol I kid I kid

warfelg
06-20-2018, 09:21 AM
Put me in the camp of not being a fan of players being able to do crap like that to avoid a team.

I would say that there should be a panel of NBA approved doctors, and any player looking to get drafted needs to be given a physical by 3 of them and let the NBA distribute those. If you want info past that, then it's up to the team to get that.

Rivera
06-20-2018, 09:36 AM
im all for players controlling there own destiny. And I relate it to my career. When I chose the job I am at now, I had to pick between 5 different jobs that I interviewed for and offered me the position. I didnt jump at the first offer to stay locked in because they showed me loyalty. Recently I put in over 15-20 applications over the past week because I want more $$$$. Nothing to do with organizational loyalty. If my current orginaztion wants me, they will pay me more $$$ and I made it clear to my current employer of this, that im looking for other work because i want to do more. Its up to the organization to decide if they want to pay me more and keep me or for me to find something new.

These players have value and these players are good enough to play in the NBA. If they could, they would interview and apply for teams they would only want to play for, like im applying to companies who could pay me more $$$$.

no big deal. find happiness, get paid

because of how the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL system works players dont get to chose where they want to play, so influence as much as possible to where you want to go


as fans, I understand the anger. If I was a Kings or Grizzlies fan, yes I would be upset that some players wouldnt want to play for my team. But the players arent doing anything wrong.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 10:07 AM
Canít compare our own experiences with it to athletes and being drafted. Because there is no comparison.

Jeffy25
06-20-2018, 10:30 AM
what I want to know is who is gonna trade up? If anyone.

We hardly see a draft without a fresh trade up

TheDish87
06-20-2018, 10:32 AM
im all for players controlling there own destiny. And I relate it to my career. When I chose the job I am at now, I had to pick between 5 different jobs that I interviewed for and offered me the position. I didnt jump at the first offer to stay locked in because they showed me loyalty. Recently I put in over 15-20 applications over the past week because I want more $$$$. Nothing to do with organizational loyalty. If my current orginaztion wants me, they will pay me more $$$ and I made it clear to my current employer of this, that im looking for other work because i want to do more. Its up to the organization to decide if they want to pay me more and keep me or for me to find something new.

These players have value and these players are good enough to play in the NBA. If they could, they would interview and apply for teams they would only want to play for, like im applying to companies who could pay me more $$$$.

no big deal. find happiness, get paid

because of how the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL system works players dont get to chose where they want to play, so influence as much as possible to where you want to go


as fans, I understand the anger. If I was a Kings or Grizzlies fan, yes I would be upset that some players wouldnt want to play for my team. But the players arent doing anything wrong.

this is not the same thing.

Rivera
06-20-2018, 10:44 AM
Canít compare our own experiences with it to athletes and being drafted. Because there is no comparison.


this is not the same thing.

im all for players controlling their own destinies. you guys say it isnt the same thing because of $$$ involved. When you go to a job fair, you dont always choose the job you want, sometimes the recruiter places you where they want you for #s purposes. Its up to me to accept or deny. No one is forcing these guys to stay if they dont want to. They can use their influence to try and go somewhere else or not chose to go to the team that was drafted, make money for a year somewhere else and be placed back in the draft next year if their desire is strong enough not to go to a certain team

Scoots
06-20-2018, 10:47 AM
Put me in the camp of not being a fan of players being able to do crap like that to avoid a team.

I would say that there should be a panel of NBA approved doctors, and any player looking to get drafted needs to be given a physical by 3 of them and let the NBA distribute those. If you want info past that, then it's up to the team to get that.

But avoiding the teams isn't just medical. They avoid doing work outs they control who they work out with they refuse to meet with teams. I wonder if they would need a new CBA to change the pre-draft rules?

warfelg
06-20-2018, 10:51 AM
But avoiding the teams isn't just medical. They avoid doing work outs they control who they work out with they refuse to meet with teams. I wonder if they would need a new CBA to change the pre-draft rules?

I think so. Even if itís a school run workout (like the NFL having pro-days) itís fine. But to basically no show the combine then refuse to workout leaves me with a sour taste. Teams need some level of access.

hugepatsfan
06-20-2018, 10:54 AM
Put me in the camp of not being a fan of players being able to do crap like that to avoid a team.

I would say that there should be a panel of NBA approved doctors, and any player looking to get drafted needs to be given a physical by 3 of them and let the NBA distribute those. If you want info past that, then it's up to the team to get that.

I love this idea on the medicals. I think it should stay the players choice whether to work out or not though and that's just something teams will have to deal with.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 10:56 AM
im all for players controlling their own destinies. you guys say it isnt the same thing because of $$$ involved. When you go to a job fair, you dont always choose the job you want, sometimes the recruiter places you where they want you for #s purposes. Its up to me to accept or deny. No one is forcing these guys to stay if they dont want to. They can use their influence to try and go somewhere else or not chose to go to the team that was drafted, make money for a year somewhere else and be placed back in the draft next year if their desire is strong enough not to go to a certain team

Except like you said, you can apply to multiple places. And the CBA is set up in a way to allow poor performing employers a chance to become better. Real world unions do not work like that.

Scoots
06-20-2018, 10:57 AM
I think so. Even if itís a school run workout (like the NFL having pro-days) itís fine. But to basically no show the combine then refuse to workout leaves me with a sour taste. Teams need some level of access.

Teams have a choice of drafting them or not. What they do pre-draft is the last control the players have essentially until the end of their rookie deals.

Scoots
06-20-2018, 10:58 AM
I love this idea on the medicals. I think it should stay the players choice whether to work out or not though and that's just something teams will have to deal with.

It's called the combine ... but right now the NBA doesn't invite all the players to the combine, nor are those players required to attend.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 11:00 AM
It's called the combine ... but right now the NBA doesn't invite all the players to the combine, nor are those players required to attend.

Or they choose to not do any workouts.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 11:01 AM
Teams have a choice of drafting them or not. What they do pre-draft is the last control the players have essentially until the end of their rookie deals.

Iím cool if they say they donít want to go to the teams facility to workout. But there should be a way for teams to at least see these guys doing drills.

Like in the nfl a player can turn down a team run workout, but if the team shows up to their pro day, thereís not much they can do but workout in front of them. I would like to see at least that happen.

Rivera
06-20-2018, 11:02 AM
Except like you said, you can apply to multiple places. And the CBA is set up in a way to allow poor performing employers a chance to become better. Real world unions do not work like that.

That doesnt mean that the players cant try and control their destiny before they get drafted. This is the only time a rookie would have leverage before they are locked into a contract. If they do not want to go there, they dont have to if they REALLY dont want to. Try to influence where you want to go. If the player is serious about not going to a team (for example Sacto) they have the ability to say im not going, play overseas and get back in the draft next season, thats how a player can dictate where he wants to go if the player is serious about it


just like i would have the ability to deny a job that I dont want as long as I dont sign a contract.


alot of this is smoke, most players wont take that chance at guaranteed money like a regular person down the street

Scoots
06-20-2018, 11:17 AM
Iím cool if they say they donít want to go to the teams facility to workout. But there should be a way for teams to at least see these guys doing drills.

Like in the nfl a player can turn down a team run workout, but if the team shows up to their pro day, thereís not much they can do but workout in front of them. I would like to see at least that happen.

In the NFL the players can choose not to workout at their schools pro-day. The NBA is more star driven and more agent controlled so it's more evident, but it's the exact same system. In the NFL the teams just don't draft them.

TheDish87
06-20-2018, 12:32 PM
im all for players controlling their own destinies. you guys say it isnt the same thing because of $$$ involved. When you go to a job fair, you dont always choose the job you want, sometimes the recruiter places you where they want you for #s purposes. Its up to me to accept or deny. No one is forcing these guys to stay if they dont want to. They can use their influence to try and go somewhere else or not chose to go to the team that was drafted, make money for a year somewhere else and be placed back in the draft next year if their desire is strong enough not to go to a certain team

this isnt the same thing. i dont know how many times im gonna need to say it. this isnt a regular job.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 02:15 PM
In the NFL the players can choose not to workout at their schools pro-day. The NBA is more star driven and more agent controlled so it's more evident, but it's the exact same system. In the NFL the teams just don't draft them.

They can chose not to is correct. But you are giving multiple chances for teams to see that guy face to face.

Itís cool if you think itís fine the way it is. I would like it so that all teams can get a look at someone and they canít dodge teams if they choose.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 02:40 PM
Some Trades won't be announced intill pick is made like maybe Howard Trade because it involes 2nd round picks. Yes some guys want to be closer to where they went to College or a Team close to NBA Finals. Another all guys available to.be Drafted should be in Green Room and Teams should come up and announce picks.

TheDish87
06-20-2018, 03:10 PM
Some Trades won't be announced intill pick is made like maybe Howard Trade because it involes 2nd round picks. Yes some guys want to be closer to where they went to College or a Team close to NBA Finals. Another all guys available to.be Drafted should be in Green Room and Teams should come up and announce picks.

thats not how it works

Scoots
06-20-2018, 03:15 PM
They can chose not to is correct. But you are giving multiple chances for teams to see that guy face to face.

Itís cool if you think itís fine the way it is. I would like it so that all teams can get a look at someone and they canít dodge teams if they choose.

The teams have multiple chances to see players now, but like the NFL the players can choose to avoid it.

Are you suggesting making the combine mandatory to being drafted? Or having multiple allowed events and every player has to show up at at least one of them?

Scoots
06-20-2018, 03:19 PM
thats not how it works

There are trades that can be fully agreed upon that don't go into effect until the pick is made. I know of one trade that had as part of it's terms that a player the team trading for the pick wanted be available to be selected so the soonest the trade could possibly completed was when the trading team was on the clock. There was another where there was a term in the trade that a certain player was NOT available to be selected.

I have absolutely no idea what the post you responded to means, I just wanted to point out that some trades are necessarily on hold until the draft.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 03:45 PM
The teams have multiple chances to see players now, but like the NFL the players can choose to avoid it.

Are you suggesting making the combine mandatory to being drafted? Or having multiple allowed events and every player has to show up at at least one of them?

The latter. Multiple events, must be available for one of them.

And at the nfl combine you canít turn down requested interviews. Granted they are only 15 minutes long so not that much, but itís enough time.

Itís where I think the other poster got the analogy wrong. What those players are doing is like having 10 employers wanting to talk to you, and saying no to some without knowing what they are offering just because you think you know what itís like there.

TheDish87
06-20-2018, 04:20 PM
There are trades that can be fully agreed upon that don't go into effect until the pick is made. I know of one trade that had as part of it's terms that a player the team trading for the pick wanted be available to be selected so the soonest the trade could possibly completed was when the trading team was on the clock. There was another where there was a term in the trade that a certain player was NOT available to be selected.

I have absolutely no idea what the post you responded to means, I just wanted to point out that some trades are necessarily on hold until the draft.

oh no i know what you are seeing. But those type of deals are agreed on draft night or at least not announced til then. maybe the other guy worded his post weird, he seems to think trades with picks arent official til those picks are used. Thats how i took it.

Bostonjorge
06-20-2018, 04:58 PM
I would love to see Philly trade up in this draft.

TheDish87
06-20-2018, 05:00 PM
why? its not worth the cost.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 05:09 PM
Some Trades can't happen intill like July 1st like Celtics/Nets one couldn't. If GM's were on the floor more Trades would happen and if theirs more rounds to. It woould be good if like Mark Cubin said with like the 5th Pick the Mavs pick. In some of the past Drafts theirs been some proposed Trades when pick comes up and might be announced later in Draft.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/knicks-looking-to-trade-up-for-mohamed-bamba.html#comments Lee,so on and 9th pick for 2nd pick and so on maybe?

Scoots
06-20-2018, 06:42 PM
The latter. Multiple events, must be available for one of them.

And at the nfl combine you canít turn down requested interviews. Granted they are only 15 minutes long so not that much, but itís enough time.

Itís where I think the other poster got the analogy wrong. What those players are doing is like having 10 employers wanting to talk to you, and saying no to some without knowing what they are offering just because you think you know what itís like there.

AFAIK players don't have to participate in any part of the combine for the NFL, including interviews.

They could probably do it with something like 5 combine days in various parts of the country and one in europe I guess. I doubt the players will go for it though.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 07:37 PM
AFAIK players don't have to participate in any part of the combine for the NFL, including interviews.

They could probably do it with something like 5 combine days in various parts of the country and one in europe I guess. I doubt the players will go for it though.

They donít have to do on field but they have to do everything else.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 09:11 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaxtn4rm But 76ers say they won't give up Saric but still gives the Kings a young PF and 76ers get an extra pick and also Knicks might not do it because trying to move up but get a young PG if they don't like what they have or a guy in the Draft.

tp13baby
06-20-2018, 09:18 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaxtn4rm But 76ers say they won't give up Saric but still gives the Kings a young PF and 76ers get an extra pick and also Knicks might not do it because trying to move up but get a young PG if they don't like what they have or a guy in the Draft.

I wish we would ban trade machine in here cause 99.9999% are terrible.

HunterNRoss
06-20-2018, 09:30 PM
Chris Mannix@ChrisMannixYS
Atlanta has explored moving back in the draft, with an eye on OUís Trae Young, league sources told @YahooSports. Hawks have fielded numerous calls for the No. 3 pick.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 09:31 PM
But can't add Draft Picks in Trades on Trade Machine and Knicks looking to move up to get C. Magic also looking to move up.

Then Billups bold prediction of Hawks getting Young still can happen. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yddfz888 Hawks move back on spot but Parsons and Fultz -11wins and no way Draft Young at 4 Hawks. 76ers better with Schroder and who would they want at 3 pick without giving up Covington or Saric. Memphis also better with Bayless and other guy they get but might not want to take on Salary.

HunterNRoss
06-20-2018, 10:38 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
The Lakers have acquired the 39th pick in Thursdayís Draft from the 76ers, league source tells ESPN. Lakers will send Philly its 2019 second round pick via Bulls and cash.

Scoots
06-20-2018, 10:50 PM
They donít have to do on field but they have to do everything else.

First, not all NFL draft eligible players are allowed to attend the combine, and if they are invited they don't have to attend to be draft eligible. Players can opt out of any of the physical tests, and I'm certain players don't have to meet with every team that requests a meeting though I couldn't find the full rule book to confirm exactly what choices they don't have.

But since we are talking about what you want for the NBA none of that really matters.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 10:54 PM
But won't be official intill July 1st but if put Bayless in deal could be official tomorrow.

KobeOwnSU
06-20-2018, 10:57 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
The Lakers have acquired the 39th pick in Thursdayís Draft from the 76ers, league source tells ESPN. Lakers will send Philly its 2019 second round pick via Bulls and cash.

Send all three picks to anyone willing to take on Deng's contract.

KobeOwnSU
06-20-2018, 10:58 PM
I wouldn't be mad if the Lakers traded their first for a couple more 2nds. It would free up another million in cap space.

HunterNRoss
06-20-2018, 10:59 PM
Send all three picks to anyone willing to take on Deng's contract.

That could possibly work. Though a first this year and next year is probably a better options. We may need those 2 seconds to fill out depth if we sign the big 3.

KobeOwnSU
06-20-2018, 11:02 PM
That could possibly work. Though a first this year and next year is probably a better options. We may need those 2 seconds to fill out depth if we sign the big 3.

Possibly. Or if they trade the first for two seconds and stretch Deng, they could open up about 14 million in cap space. Theoretically, they could then max out LeBron and PG while keeping the rights to Randle and still have the 5 second round picks to fill out the roster.

warfelg
06-20-2018, 11:12 PM
First, not all NFL draft eligible players are allowed to attend the combine, and if they are invited they don't have to attend to be draft eligible. Players can opt out of any of the physical tests, and I'm certain players don't have to meet with every team that requests a meeting though I couldn't find the full rule book to confirm exactly what choices they don't have.

But since we are talking about what you want for the NBA none of that really matters.

What I want to see for the NBA through the draft process:
~NBA approved physical.
~At least 1 workout for NCAA/non-Euro players in open format
~Agents must provide reasons to teams as to why a player won't workout for them.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 11:18 PM
Leonard deal would have to include a top pick Lakers don't have one this year,Ingram not giving him up and so on. 76ers will move other picks,Bayless to.

Saddletramp
06-20-2018, 11:32 PM
im all for players controlling there own destiny. And I relate it to my career. When I chose the job I am at now, I had to pick between 5 different jobs that I interviewed for and offered me the position. I didnt jump at the first offer to stay locked in because they showed me loyalty. Recently I put in over 15-20 applications over the past week because I want more $$$$. Nothing to do with organizational loyalty. If my current orginaztion wants me, they will pay me more $$$ and I made it clear to my current employer of this, that im looking for other work because i want to do more. Its up to the organization to decide if they want to pay me more and keep me or for me to find something new.

These players have value and these players are good enough to play in the NBA. If they could, they would interview and apply for teams they would only want to play for, like im applying to companies who could pay me more $$$$.

no big deal. find happiness, get paid

because of how the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL system works players dont get to chose where they want to play, so influence as much as possible to where you want to go


as fans, I understand the anger. If I was a Kings or Grizzlies fan, yes I would be upset that some players wouldnt want to play for my team. But the players arent doing anything wrong.

Comparing us normal people to athletes is dumb. Two separate things.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 11:41 PM
At MLB/NHL Drafts no pre Draft combined but both have Minors. Because NHL Draft is at American Airlines Center on June 22-23 so tomorrow NBA Draft can be their tomorrow then on Friday can get it ready for NHL Draft. The MLB/WNBA/MLS should have been in Dallas this year to. Next year Vancouver because that's where NHL Draft is held or Sprint Center or Amway Center NBA Draft. Also USA needs more USA Basketball Leagues that are Affliated with NBA.

Hawks could move back to 10 and still take maybe Young but maybe like Schroder,Bayless and so on in deal or even a Third team. To make tomorrow interesting a couple of Blockbusters,almost every pick in Second round Traded.

zn23
06-20-2018, 11:47 PM
Heard some great news that Ayton and Bagley are projected 1-2, the Hawks are going to take Doncic with the 3rd. This would be best for any of the top 3 teams involved.

I just hope Vlade's Adriatic bias doesn't kick in. Remember when he drafted that unknown player from Greece two years ago?

zn23
06-20-2018, 11:53 PM
It isnt fair... I wish the league would do something about this ****. No player should be able to dictate where they can go until they hit free agency.

I'm not so sure I agree with that....

The players should have some choice, it's their future as well. I like the idea of a player telling a specific team not to draft him. Why would anyone want to go to a dysfunctional franchise? Sure, they can pay you more early on, but they'll shorten your career as well.

Also, by doing this, it could act as a wake up call to dysfunctional franchises to get their **** together.

mgomrjsurf
06-20-2018, 11:55 PM
Where have you heard that News and Shelley Smith said on Sportscenter tonight that 2nd Pick still a secret and Hawks still taking offers for 3rd pick but still might want Young.

Mr.B
06-21-2018, 12:54 AM
Hard to say right now. Not sure if I see any truly elite players in this draft (top 10 NBA players). I think Brown can be as good as any player in this draft the rest of his career. He still has a ways to go though. Year 3 is huge for his development. We'll see if he continues the progression he made from year 1 to 2 or if he flatlines.

I also think any team asking for Brown has to factor in the success (or lack there of) of the other players that have left Boston. None have really had any success. Is Brown just a product of the system?

Mr.B
06-21-2018, 12:55 AM
We would not add Brown to that. A top 10 NBA player when healthy who's 26 and Brown (who's better than DSJ right now) for #5 and DSJ...No way.

So then, you donít want Bamba?

Mr.B
06-21-2018, 01:01 AM
Some Trades can't happen intill like July 1st like Celtics/Nets one couldn't. If GM's were on the floor more Trades would happen and if theirs more rounds to. It woould be good if like Mark Cubin said with like the 5th Pick the Mavs pick. In some of the past Drafts theirs been some proposed Trades when pick comes up and might be announced later in Draft.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/knicks-looking-to-trade-up-for-mohamed-bamba.html#comments Lee,so on and 9th pick for 2nd pick and so on maybe?

From my understanding the Mavs are one of just a couple teams that have the cap space to pull off trades prior to July 1st. They wonít have to wait until July 1st to take on salary, where most teams that will have cap space canít until that date. Iíd say that gives them a slight advantage in potential trade.

Bostonjorge
06-21-2018, 01:22 AM
I also think any team asking for Brown has to factor in the success (or lack there of) of the other players that have left Boston. None have really had any success. Is Brown just a product of the system?

Then teams with systems should want Brown. The right system can carry Brown one game away form the NBA finals. It took Lebron James and a injury to Brown to stop him or stop the system Brown was running.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 02:18 AM
I'm not so sure I agree with that....

The players should have some choice, it's their future as well. I like the idea of a player telling a specific team not to draft him. Why would anyone want to go to a dysfunctional franchise? Sure, they can pay you more early on, but they'll shorten your career as well.

Also, by doing this, it could act as a wake up call to dysfunctional franchises to get their **** together.

Doesnt matter... If makes it really unfair when teams need to build through the draft. I would rather newly drafted players become free agents sooner than later than be able to pull crap like this.

Oakmont_4
06-21-2018, 06:08 AM
So then, you donít want Bamba?

Not for that price. And I actually prefer Carter Jr. over Bamba

Oakmont_4
06-21-2018, 06:15 AM
I also think any team asking for Brown has to factor in the success (or lack there of) of the other players that have left Boston. None have really had any success. Is Brown just a product of the system?

System and team are always a factor in a player success unless you have a very rare talent like LeBron James or KD. Even then so, a player like LeBron or KD would be better in a better system, on a better team. Not sure I like that argument.

What former Boston players are we talking about here? IT who was hurt? Bradley who got hurt? Crowder sucked in CLE but who didn't at that time? He recovered pretty well to what he was in Utah. Honestly, Crowder just got overrated because he was playing on a team that didn't have top end talent. They had 6-8 guys all about the same talent level and Crowder was a starter on that team so his value got oversold.

When it comes to Brown, his athleticism is clear. He's obviously improved his 3 point shot immensely. We knew he was going to be a great defender coming out of the draft. No I don't think it's because of the system. I think he's supremely talented and has a good work ethic. He was in a place that focuses on developing players which has helped. His success can carry on outside of Boston.

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 07:35 AM
Then a Mavs Hawks or Grizzles Trades works with Magic in it to with Magic getting Parsons and Mavs a Center from Magic.

bagwell368
06-21-2018, 07:52 AM
Brown is a supreme athlete. He is a developing player. His ceiling is top 20, but he may never be better than #80. He's got a great coach, he's got to repair the two issues in his FT shooting.

Given his cost/control, if DA is looking at a huge move I'd much rather deal Hayward or KI who are better players now, but cost more, are older, and have health concerns - might also yield more in trade.

If Brown doesn't make the max grade path in a year and a half, he'll make a fine deadline trade piece.

TheDish87
06-21-2018, 08:49 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaxtn4rm But 76ers say they won't give up Saric but still gives the Kings a young PF and 76ers get an extra pick and also Knicks might not do it because trying to move up but get a young PG if they don't like what they have or a guy in the Draft.

no thanks

warfelg
06-21-2018, 09:06 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaxtn4rm But 76ers say they won't give up Saric but still gives the Kings a young PF and 76ers get an extra pick and also Knicks might not do it because trying to move up but get a young PG if they don't like what they have or a guy in the Draft.

Dear mother of god that is terrible.

Rivera
06-21-2018, 09:18 AM
im going

1 Deandre Ayton - PHX
2 Marvin Bagley - SAC
3 Luka Doncic - ATL
4 Jarren Jackson Jr - MEM
5 Mo Bamba - DAL
6 Collin Sexton - ORL
7 Wendell Carter Jr - CHI
8 Michael Porter Jr - CLE
9 Trae Young - NYK
10 Mikal Bridges - PHI

thats how im going for my personal mock top 10

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 10:08 AM
Yes but no Trades in yours and their will be some in top 10.

CityofTreez
06-21-2018, 10:57 AM
Heard some great news that Ayton and Bagley are projected 1-2, the Hawks are going to take Doncic with the 3rd. This would be best for any of the top 3 teams involved.

I just hope Vlade's Adriatic bias doesn't kick in. Remember when he drafted that unknown player from Greece two years ago?

Lol youíre really getting worked up over Doncic coming to Sac....

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 12:43 PM
Latest story on hoopsrumors.com about Mavs and Cousins lots of Trade Rumors.

eternalslumber
06-21-2018, 02:21 PM
Rockets getting calls for Eric Gordon for a mid first round pick. Morey did try to have some workouts the past few days for players within that range.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/1009510513217294337

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/draft-rumors-rockets-spurs-knicks-bridges.html

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 02:42 PM
Howard expecting buyout after new year by Nets. Teams lining up for number 3 if Kings pass on Dukocic. Also Spurs listing on Leonard.

Vee-Rex
06-21-2018, 02:45 PM
1009868927952924673

WaDe03
06-21-2018, 02:59 PM
1009868927952924673

8th pick and Hill for Parsons and 4th pick, just wait on it.

Flip the pick for Kawhi and sign Howard find someone to fill in at PG.

Oakmont_4
06-21-2018, 03:32 PM
8th pick and Hill for Parsons and 4th pick, just wait on it.

Flip the pick for Kawhi and sign Howard find someone to fill in at PG.

Going to have to send some bad contracts to make the money work for Kahwi. Not sure why SAS would be willing to take back bad contracts in a Kahwi deal.

Wade n Fade
06-21-2018, 03:58 PM
Cleveland should draft to get better; not draft to entice LeBron to stay and have him inevitably walk to another squad this July. Learn from the Shabazz Napier pick Miami made.

Scoots
06-21-2018, 04:21 PM
Cleveland should draft to get better; not draft to entice LeBron to stay and have him inevitably walk to another squad this July. Learn from the Shabazz Napier pick Miami made.

The Cavs should just sell the team to LeBron now and be done with it.

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 05:00 PM
Gortat available. Smith,Kover,Hill,Clarkson and 8th pick for Leonard and Mills?

Mr.B
06-21-2018, 05:24 PM
https://twitter.com/sportsnaut/status/1009908041272225792?s=21

FlashBolt
06-21-2018, 05:28 PM
Gortat available. Smith,Kover,Hill,Clarkson and 8th pick for Leonard and Mills?

And the Spurs will do that because....?

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 05:38 PM
What would Dallas give up besides Draft Pick?

warfelg
06-21-2018, 06:08 PM
Rumor has it Justice Winslow is on the block as Miami looks for a 1st round pick.

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 06:58 PM
Looks like Hawks/Mavs Trade has lost steam.

HandsOnTheWheel
06-21-2018, 07:04 PM
How long are ESPN going to drag this pre draft for & make us wait?

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:11 PM
Id be fine with bridges at 10 though i think the knicks take him... If we move up i know he had surgery but depending on where he falls MPJ could be the steal of the draft esp if he falls from 10-15 range.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:11 PM
i wouldnt give up fultz/10/28 just to move up though but we might.

MJNetsIsles
06-21-2018, 07:12 PM
Gortat available. Smith,Kover,Hill,Clarkson and 8th pick for Leonard and Mills?

Never from the Spurs end. That's one of the worst suggestions I've ever heard.

Garbage for Leonard. Nope, not happening. You are awarded no points.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:13 PM
How long are ESPN going to drag this pre draft for & make us wait?

man in a few years the draft will be an all day event... Its sad how much hype these drafts get. This is a fine draft... I dont agree that its top heavy... I think it is a deep draft but the talent at the top are hella overrated. Example.. The knicks could easily get the best player from this draft at 8.

warfelg
06-21-2018, 07:13 PM
How long are ESPN going to drag this pre draft for & make us wait?

Til 7:30 since that's when the NBA set the start time. ESPN isn't dragging it out.

Scoots
06-21-2018, 07:17 PM
Players worked out by team

https://hoopshype.com/2018/05/19/2018-nba-pre-draft-workouts-whos-going-where/

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 07:19 PM
Hawks/Mavs could still happen. A Veteran move be moved tonight.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:25 PM
Til 7:30 since that's when the NBA set the start time. ESPN isn't dragging it out.

lol they are bringing them out like the wwe does... they are really going overboard

warfelg
06-21-2018, 07:27 PM
1009938301678182401

See this is what I hate. No way should a drafting team have to sell themselves to a player. At all. It should be the other way. Players having to sell themselves to a team. The fact the Grzz had to sell themselves to a 19 year old kid is pathetic.

Scoots
06-21-2018, 07:28 PM
1009938301678182401

See this is what I hate. No way should a drafting team have to sell themselves to a player. At all. It should be the other way. Players having to sell themselves to a team. The fact the Grzz had to sell themselves to a 19 year old kid is pathetic.

Meh. The game tape is what matters ... they will draft him if they want him.

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 07:28 PM
Only last one day. Also if NBATV televised Draft to would you watch David Aldridge or WOJ for Breaking Trade News?

Vee-Rex
06-21-2018, 07:35 PM
Lol at the draft booing the Warriors.

Scoots
06-21-2018, 07:37 PM
Lol at the draft booing the Warriors.

So sorry. Is a team going to sell a pick to the Warriors again?

Vee-Rex
06-21-2018, 07:39 PM
So sorry. Is a team going to sell a pick to the Warriors again?

People are tired of the Warriors and Silver was just trying to market them. It's sorta nauseating.

zn23
06-21-2018, 07:40 PM
Ayton no.1, now lets hope Vlade doesn't screw this up.

Vee-Rex
06-21-2018, 07:42 PM
Ayton is like a faster version of Embiid. Doesn't have the post-up and scoring skills, but it's sufficient. He's gonna be an all-star within a few years.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:44 PM
The ****... Kings

zn23
06-21-2018, 07:44 PM
Yes, well done Vlade!

Scoots
06-21-2018, 07:44 PM
People are tired of the Warriors and Silver was just trying to market them. It's sorta nauseating.

"People" are not tired of the Warriors ... the sort of nuts around here and who go to the NBA draft are tired of the Warriors. Big difference. But yeah, Silver could have passed that one by.

More-Than-Most
06-21-2018, 07:44 PM
i dont like bagley but whatever. I get it

mgomrjsurf
06-21-2018, 07:45 PM
They shouldn't of frozen Draft order at 2pm.

HunterNRoss
06-21-2018, 07:45 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
Atlanta and Dallas have agreed to a deal, league sources tell ESPN. They'll trade Nos. 3 and 5 picks, sending Luka Doncic to Dallas and Trae Young to Atlanta, sources said. Dallas will send Atlanta a future first.