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BSF101
04-27-2018, 08:46 PM
I apologize if this as been asked before but do you believe the 76ers are looking
to become the next GS Warriors of the East? There's been rumors that LBJ might sign
and now Paul George is thinking of signing with them next season and lets not forget
Kawhi Lenoard so if they get one or all three of these guys rather its via a trade or free agency
will they become a Super team? Or is this just a pipe dream for Philly Fans.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-27-2018, 09:13 PM
Nah, I don't think Lebron will go there.

They should build with what they have. Embiid/Simmons is a hell of a duo. Fultz might still be a good player. Have some solid guys to fill roles like Covington and Saric. They have a draft pick in the lottery this year I believe in what is looking like a deep draft.

COOLbeans
04-27-2018, 09:30 PM
Leonard is the only one id bring in if it didnít cost me Simmons or Embiid. That would make them extremely hard to beat in the playoffs regardless of opponent.

More-Than-Most
04-27-2018, 09:34 PM
Leonard is the only one id bring in if it didnít cost me Simmons or Embiid. That would make them extremely hard to beat in the playoffs regardless of opponent.

If we sign PG13 id offer up a package around saric or fultz for KL

saric/Lakers top 10 pick/Our first round pick and one of our euro guys should be enough to get it done. I am not a fan of giving up fultz or saric but for a KL why not ya know. PG13 is the best current fit over lebron though.

Cal827
04-27-2018, 09:45 PM
I think that George would be a perfect fit for that team over Lebron. George can play just fine without the ball in his hands all the time.

They get George, it's basically between them and Boston for the top of the east over the next few years (and possibly championship).

Raps18-19 Champ
04-27-2018, 09:45 PM
If we sign PG13 id offer up a package around saric or fultz for KL

saric/Lakers top 10 pick/Our first round pick and one of our euro guys should be enough to get it done. I am not a fan of giving up fultz or saric but for a KL why not ya know. PG13 is the best current fit over lebron though.

That's not enough to get it done IMO. Spurs probably would ride it out.

JasonJohnHorn
04-28-2018, 02:11 PM
Regardless as to who they bring in, this team ha enough young talent to content for years. A couple of differences between them and GSW are important to consider.

GSW built their roster predominantly through the draft with smart scouting. They never had a top-five pick, and never 'bottomed' out. I feel like this gets lost. People see how OKC drafted 3 MVP and a couple of solid role players in the draft, and then see GSW build a contend in the draft, and they think, "Hinkie's process": let's lose for five year and contend with the resulting draft picks.

That's not what happened with GSW. It was smart scouting, good drafting. Not bottoming out to get top five picsk every year. We've seen enough teams who lose repeatedly and have nothing to show for it even after decades.


The other thing is that there is an injury bug in Philly. Embid. Noel. Simmons. Fultz. Nobody's fault. However, this team has to stay healthy to contend, and that is a huge question mark. It's clear that they have the potential to contend but they need to stay healthy to do that.


Let's hope they stay healthy. I want to see what this team can do.

mrblisterdundee
04-28-2018, 05:26 PM
They need way more shooting to become like the Warriors. I think they'll go after an elite three-and-D wing like Kawhi, George or maybe Thompson next summer. Bradley would be a great fit too as someone a bit cheaper.

COOLbeans
04-28-2018, 05:39 PM
FAs will be looking to go there now. Thatís a great basketball town and from all accounts not a bad place to live.

bagwell368
04-28-2018, 05:57 PM
Nah, I don't think Lebron will go there.

They should build with what they have. Embiid/Simmons is a hell of a duo. Fultz might still be a good player. Have some solid guys to fill roles like Covington and Saric. They have a draft pick in the lottery this year I believe in what is looking like a deep draft.

LBJ should consider signing here. He went to Miami to win, he went back to Cle to win at home. If he goes to the West, he'll be much closer to a JAG than in the East. He might go to the Finals twice in five years from the West, but he could go four out of five if he was on the the 76'ers.

He wants those rings to cement his place.

still a fan
04-28-2018, 07:52 PM
Philly has the Lakers pick, Fultz basically didn't play and on top of everything they have cap space.

So why trade young talent when you can sign PG13 in FA?

I actually don't think Lebron fits with Simmons, and with the combination of Covington and PG13 they can both play the wing, that would be a real tall order for teams to handle/

Simmons at 6'10 PG
Covington, PG13, Saric and Embiid, ouch!!

question is where Reddick fits if anywhere and for how much.

ewing
04-28-2018, 08:07 PM
Philly has the Lakers pick, Fultz basically didn't play and on top of everything they have cap space.

So why trade young talent when you can sign PG13 in FA?

I actually don't think Lebron fits with Simmons, and with the combination of Covington and PG13 they can both play the wing, that would be a real tall order for teams to handle/

Simmons at 6'10 PG
Covington, PG13, Saric and Embiid, ouch!!

question is where Reddick fits if anywhere and for how much.

I think JJ is still your best look at the two, you lose some length and D but he is just so heady without the ball and a different breed of shooter then Cov IMO. He could be a causality though and the length and skill of the unit you just put out there is scary as ****

Scoots
05-01-2018, 09:31 AM
Doesn't every team want to be a top winner/multi-time champion?

Sixers are doing it very differently than the Warriors.

FlashBolt
05-03-2018, 01:32 PM
The problem with PG is so obvious. Can you rely on him to show up for every game? Because LeBron can do that. In the NBA Finals, one bad game is enough to lose the entire series. Is PG ready to take on Durant? No. Sorry, and he will never be. LeBron can do that. So yes, PG is a better fit because you can turn him into an elite 3 and D defender but what else can he do on an elite level? He doesn't rebound the way Bron can, doesn't playmake the way LeBron can (and yes, two elite playmakers on a team is something no team wants to play against), and he can't score the way LeBron can consistently and efficiently. You guys talk about defense but who's willing to bet here that PG plays better defense than Bron if you give them the same responsibilities? I don't. I was very wrong about PG's defense to the point where I said Roberson being absent wouldn't hurt us as much as people think. I couldn't have been more wrong. PG is an elite defender but when asked to carry the offense in a way that LeBron has to, he'll never generate elite defense. I saw Donovan get past PG like a freaking turnstile. Should you want PG as a Sixers fan? Heck yeah. But you should want LeBron first.

WestCoastSportz
05-04-2018, 01:09 PM
The Sixers have something good going now with Simmons and Embiid. I don't think they need to sign a big time free agent to come in and ruin that chemistry, especially some ball dominant player like Lebron. They have a ton of money they can use to build some depth on that roster. They really don't have a consistent player off the bench and possibly a shooting guard. Redick has played well, but his defense leaves something to be desired and I wouldn't bring him back at $23M a year.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2018, 01:49 PM
LBJ should consider signing here. He went to Miami to win, he went back to Cle to win at home. If he goes to the West, he'll be much closer to a JAG than in the East. He might go to the Finals twice in five years from the West, but he could go four out of five if he was on the the 76'ers.

He wants those rings to cement his place.

Lebron will be in Philly for sure if they are planning on bringing in two stars. Kawaii and Lebron is all there is to think about. If itís possible, without giving Embiid/Simmons, you do it and you win for the next 10 years.

RCarlson85
05-04-2018, 02:13 PM
Lebron will be in Philly for sure if they are planning on bringing in two stars. Kawaii and Lebron is all there is to think about. If itís possible, without giving Embiid/Simmons, you do it and you win for the next 10 years.

I'm looking forward to seeing Lebron at 43.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2018, 02:20 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Lebron at 43.

18/8/8 on 50% from the field at that age watch😂

WestCoastSportz
05-04-2018, 02:41 PM
Putting someone like Lebron on this team takes away from what has gotten them this far and thats Simmons and Embiid. We saw what Lebron did to Kevin Love's career. He went from a 25 point and 10 rebound player in Minnesota to a 16 and 8 player in Cleveland. The Sixers can't afford to have less production out of their two main players along with Covington. If anything, they need more and the only way thats going to happen is for them to continue to be on the floor together to build that chemistry.

So many people focus so much on stock piling talent that they overlook chemistry. The Warriors are a great example of that. Is Draymond Green or Klay Thompson a top 10 player in the league? I don't think so. Are they a top 20? Its cutting it close. Some would say I'm crazy for not putting them in the top 20 but its debatable. But, they have a championship, even without Durant.

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-04-2018, 03:08 PM
People have to remember about the Warriors... the won 73 games BEFORE signing Durant.

The Sixers have a long ways to go to catch up to that level even with Lebron. And then you have to talk about the fit. Could Lebron and Simmons maximize each other the way the Warriors players do. Probably not because the Warriors are a team of unselfish players who can all shoot lights out and play defense.

IKnowHoops
05-04-2018, 04:42 PM
Putting someone like Lebron on this team takes away from what has gotten them this far and thats Simmons and Embiid. We saw what Lebron did to Kevin Love's career. He went from a 25 point and 10 rebound player in Minnesota to a 16 and 8 player in Cleveland. The Sixers can't afford to have less production out of their two main players along with Covington. If anything, they need more and the only way thats going to happen is for them to continue to be on the floor together to build that chemistry.

So many people focus so much on stock piling talent that they overlook chemistry. The Warriors are a great example of that. Is Draymond Green or Klay Thompson a top 10 player in the league? I don't think so. Are they a top 20? Its cutting it close. Some would say I'm crazy for not putting them in the top 20 but its debatable. But, they have a championship, even without Durant.

Your right Kevin went from never making the playoffs to becoming a champion. Stop!

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 05:18 PM
That's not enough to get it done IMO. Spurs probably would ride it out.

we saw how it turned out for the Spurs 'riding' it out this year

Spurs will probably move him and wont get nothing more than that outside of Irving straight up, that Philly deal will look more lovely by the day unless they hose a Phoenix for Booker type and really stick it to Leonard, unless he has a no trade clause I am not hip to they will be happy to get a PG13 type bring back, I would trade Saric / Fultz for him and call it a day, I would just look at I got Leonard / MVP caliber for a player who will be good but I don't think quite mvp candidate but that's not taking nothing away from Fultz, just levels to this and Leonard is clearly on that level

The Spurs lost a lot of leverage once these Leonard leaks started coming out about wanting out, just how it goes, and the Spurs aren't any diff., they may be more patient about it but the more they wait the more leverage they lose, I would already have a deal in place if I were Spurs and announce it once the Finals close out

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 05:28 PM
18/8/8 on 50% from the field at that age watch��

at that age playing nba live or watching his son put up that stat line from the crowd / couch

don't believe me jus watch

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 05:31 PM
Lebron will be in Philly for sure if they are planning on bringing in two stars. Kawaii and Lebron is all there is to think about. If itís possible, without giving Embiid/Simmons, you do it and you win for the next 10 years.

I would trade Simmons for Klay if Bron / Leonard signed with Sixers, and there is no way Embiid could endure 10yrs of winning deep playoff runs with his brittle body and Bron on back end of apex, as I said 4-5 yrs for sure of Finals in a row in a 10yr span is pretty much all you can ask for

c.c.
05-04-2018, 05:50 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Lebron at 43.

If Bron was to play to 43, he would own almost every single NBA player record

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 06:33 PM
PER
1. Bron 35.4
2. Harden 27.3
3. Capela 26.8
4. Giannis 26.5
5. AD 25.7


At age 33 its unbelievable how much better he is than everyone, but at the same time not really. Ive always thought the gap between him and the rest of the league was something like this.

JordansBulls
05-11-2018, 06:53 PM
Harden's is just as good when you consider competition. I mean had to deal with Jimmy Butler in round 1 (Jimmy has held Lebron in series to 40% FG and 44% FG) and then had to deal with an elite big in Rudy Gobert in the paint in the next series. This isn't to say Harden would have had the same numbers if playing Indy or Toronto, just saying there is a big difference thus far in who they played and the defensive guys that Harden has had to deal with.

Heediot
05-11-2018, 07:02 PM
easy with the bron stroking threads. we all know he's godly already.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 07:17 PM
easy with the bron stroking threads. we all know he's godly already.

When have you seen a gap like this in the playoffs. If you can't, then stop hating, its 100% worthy. Easy on the jealousy of an NBA player.

PER
1. Bron 35.4
2. Harden 27.3
3. Capela 26.8
4. Giannis 26.5
5. AD 25.7

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 07:21 PM
Harden's is just as good when you consider competition. I mean had to deal with Jimmy Butler in round 1 (Jimmy has held Lebron in series to 40% FG and 44% FG) and then had to deal with an elite big in Rudy Gobert in the paint in the next series. This isn't to say Harden would have had the same numbers if playing Indy or Toronto, just saying there is a big difference thus far in who they played and the defensive guys that Harden has had to deal with.


When you factor in all the help Harden has Cappella is number #3 in PER and remember how bad Cleveland help has playing, it all evens out and Lebron is actually this much better.

JordansBulls
05-11-2018, 07:28 PM
When you factor in all the help Harden has Cappella is number #3 in PER and remember how bad Cleveland help has playing, it all evens out and Lebron is actually this much better.

Lebron has plenty of help, let's not spin this narrative. Kevin Love a star before ever playing with Lebron, Kyle Korver a star before ever playing with Lebron, JR Smith was a #2 option on a #2 seed team in the NBA. Now we are going to Clint Capela who wasn't thought of. It would be one thing if this was Dwight Howard on this Rockets team.

Heediot
05-11-2018, 07:34 PM
When have you seen a gap like this in the playoffs. If you can't, then stop hating, its 100% worthy. Easy on the jealousy of an NBA player.

PER
1. Bron 35.4
2. Harden 27.3
3. Capela 26.8
4. Giannis 26.5
5. AD 25.7

how many fat heads of bron do you rub against in the house? lol.

HandsOnTheWheel
05-11-2018, 07:51 PM
We needed this thread

burtgummer
05-11-2018, 07:54 PM
What difference does it make when Bron-Bron will just choke again just like he usually does
The op has a sick obsession with LBJ and prob needs to seek professional help

Heediot
05-11-2018, 07:56 PM
site is a joke. too many mj and bron threads.

More-Than-Most
05-11-2018, 08:06 PM
Lebron has plenty of help, let's not spin this narrative. Kevin Love a star before ever playing with Lebron, Kyle Korver a star before ever playing with Lebron, JR Smith was a #2 option on a #2 seed team in the NBA. Now we are going to Clint Capela who wasn't thought of. It would be one thing if this was Dwight Howard on this Rockets team.

:laugh:

my god.

Scoots
05-11-2018, 08:46 PM
easy with the bron stroking threads. we all know he's godly already.

What, this is only the ... 9th? Bron related thread on the front page. How many is too many?

numba1CHANGsta
05-11-2018, 08:56 PM
they dont call him LeBlowJob for nothing

MJNetsIsles
05-11-2018, 09:18 PM
Lebron has plenty of help, let's not spin this narrative. Kevin Love a star before ever playing with Lebron, Kyle Korver a star before ever playing with Lebron, JR Smith was a #2 option on a #2 seed team in the NBA. Now we are going to Clint Capela who wasn't thought of. It would be one thing if this was Dwight Howard on this Rockets team.

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on these forums. Face it Lebron hater. He is the GOAT. Numbers donít lie! And donít argue about rings. Those are team accomplishments!

ewing
05-11-2018, 09:36 PM
When you factor in all the help Harden has Cappella is number #3 in PER and remember how bad Cleveland help has playing, it all evens out and Lebron is actually this much better.

LeBron has been by far the best player this post season no need to act like if he had Clint Cappella he be even better. Thatís just silly


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bklynny67
05-11-2018, 09:37 PM
Everyone knows he's the best player in the league and has been for a while, so a new thread every week about how great he is, is not necessary.

ewing
05-11-2018, 09:38 PM
One of the dumbest things I have ever read on these forums. Face it Lebron hater. He is the GOAT. Numbers donít lie! And donít argue about rings. Those are team accomplishments!

Wonker


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IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:41 PM
Lebron has plenty of help, let's not spin this narrative. Kevin Love a star before ever playing with Lebron, Kyle Korver a star before ever playing with Lebron, JR Smith was a #2 option on a #2 seed team in the NBA. Now we are going to Clint Capela who wasn't thought of. It would be one thing if this was Dwight Howard on this Rockets team.

JB, Capela is 3rd in PER in the playoffs!! I donít care what his name is, heís ballin. CP3 just threw up 40/10. Harden has waaaaaaaay more help and itís not close.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:42 PM
how many fat heads of bron do you rub against in the house? lol.

Exactly😭

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:43 PM
One of the dumbest things I have ever read on these forums. Face it Lebron hater. He is the GOAT. Numbers donít lie! And donít argue about rings. Those are team accomplishments!

He was a Mod

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:44 PM
LeBron has been by far the best player this post season no need to act like if he had Clint Cappella he be even better. Thatís just silly


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I didnít. Read post I quoted.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:46 PM
This will always be the strangest thing to me on PSD, and also the sign of a rat.

I love the poster who thinks a thread is worthless, and then comes into said thread, post 8 times about how thread is worthless.

What kind of person jumps into a pile of só- just so he can tell you how bad it stinks? A sain person would walk the other way no?

ewing
05-11-2018, 09:54 PM
This guy is so folky and wise


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IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 09:57 PM
This guy is so folky and wise


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Donít take it personal. Just do better.

JordansBulls
05-11-2018, 11:51 PM
One of the dumbest things I have ever read on these forums. Face it Lebron hater. He is the GOAT. Numbers donít lie! And donít argue about rings. Those are team accomplishments!

If that good he wouldn't have been down in a series every year of his career at least 3-2 and wouldn't have never been down 3-2 with HCA 5 years in a row with it. He also led America to a bronze medal in the olympics. Something that never happened with other legends.

numba1CHANGsta
05-12-2018, 01:01 AM
3-5 Finals record (soon to be 3-6)

the only stat that matters, everything else is individual accomplishments and does not benefit the fans, only thing us fans should worry about is winning a championship. A player can have all the stats in the world and i do not care, all we fans should care about is the city the team represents winning it all. This is a team sport, the city names is on their jerseys, they play for the city to achieve one goal.

IKnowHoops
05-12-2018, 07:33 AM
If that good he wouldn't have been down in a series every year of his career at least 3-2 and wouldn't have never been down 3-2 with HCA 5 years in a row with it. He also led America to a bronze medal in the olympics. Something that never happened with other legends.

Lol this guy was a mod

SteBO
05-12-2018, 10:04 AM
3-5 Finals record (soon to be 3-6)

the only stat that matters, everything else is individual accomplishments and does not benefit the fans, only thing us fans should worry about is winning a championship. A player can have all the stats in the world and i do not care, all we fans should care about is the city the team represents winning it all. This is a team sport, the city names is on their jerseys, they play for the city to achieve one goal.
Only matters to you, and thatís okay. Youíre entitled to that. Just know that your analysis will always be incomplete and lacking in substance if you ignore the stats and circumstances that surround winning/losing.

Chronz
05-12-2018, 10:25 AM
Lol this guy was a mod I feel likethe real jb died in real life, before he died however, he created a spam bot to give us the standard jokes he's beloved for

prodigy
05-12-2018, 10:32 AM
Lebron has plenty of help, let's not spin this narrative. Kevin Love a star before ever playing with Lebron, Kyle Korver a star before ever playing with Lebron, JR Smith was a #2 option on a #2 seed team in the NBA. Now we are going to Clint Capela who wasn't thought of. It would be one thing if this was Dwight Howard on this Rockets team.

JR was a #2 option? lol explain. Korver is a very good 3pt shooter, i wouldn't say hes a star def not now. What Love did with Timber-wolves means nothing today. But lebron does have more help then people give credit. Thats one of the bad things about playing with Lebron. the other guys get no respect.

Harden does have more consistent help though, also a much better defensive team which allows harden to hide and not look at bad and rest. Lebron likes to rest on defense but with the lack of defenders hes been forced to play more defense then he would like.

I'm rooting for the Rockets. I believe cavs have a much better chance to beat them than the warriors. I just want these teams to beat the crap out of each other lol. Should be a great series! warriors will win though in my opinion.

Vinylman
05-12-2018, 10:32 AM
10 of the first 27 posts by the self fellater

FlashBolt
05-12-2018, 11:11 AM
JB said LeBron had prime Shaq. Think about that. This guy genuinely goes out of his way to troll so why are you guys even surprised? I think the fact he has to make such a lie up to convince himself and others that LeBron had prime Shaq is quite some evidence that he is worried LeBron may be inching closer to MJ. I mean, why else would anyone lie about such a thing?

ewing
05-12-2018, 11:57 AM
JR was a #2 option? lol explain. Korver is a very good 3pt shooter, i wouldn't say hes a star def not now. What Love did with Timber-wolves means nothing today. But lebron does have more help then people give credit. Thats one of the bad things about playing with Lebron. the other guys get no respect.

Harden does have more consistent help though, also a much better defensive team which allows harden to hide and not look at bad and rest. Lebron likes to rest on defense but with the lack of defenders hes been forced to play more defense then he would like.

I'm rooting for the Rockets. I believe cavs have a much better chance to beat them than the warriors. I just want these teams to beat the crap out of each other lol. Should be a great series! warriors will win though in my opinion.

LeBron is a good defender, Hill is a good defender, JR when engaged is actually a very good defender imo, TT is a very good defender. I donít think the Cavs lack defenders I think they often play non defensive lineups to max out LeBron on offense. You cant play K Love at center more then anyone else when you have much better defensive options and tell me you are not punting defense.


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IKnowHoops
05-12-2018, 12:37 PM
I feel likethe real jb died in real life, before he died however, he created a spam bot to give us the standard jokes he's beloved for

Well just Incase that is true, I will refer to this maybe imposter at Bot.

IKnowHoops
05-12-2018, 12:39 PM
10 of the first 27 posts by the self fellater

You took the time to count after you entered a thread you hate. Some people are gluttons for punishment and they donít even know it. And not sain.

tredigs
05-12-2018, 12:45 PM
High quality analysis and discussion going on here. Keep it up boys.

ewing
05-12-2018, 12:57 PM
High quality analysis and discussion going on here. Keep it up boys.

Thanks

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Vee-Rex
05-12-2018, 12:58 PM
I feel likethe real jb died in real life, before he died however, he created a spam bot to give us the standard jokes he's beloved for

:laugh2: spot on

Vinylman
05-12-2018, 01:24 PM
High quality analysis and discussion going on here. Keep it up boys.

its the losers bracket of discussions...

LBJ is always the champ in that regard

FlashBolt
05-12-2018, 01:53 PM
its the losers bracket of discussions...

LBJ is always the champ in that regard

"Superior = good" boy go to school and stop spending your time on PSD.

prodigy
05-12-2018, 02:11 PM
LeBron is a good defender, Hill is a good defender, JR when engaged is actually a very good defender imo, TT is a very good defender. I donít think the Cavs lack defenders I think they often play non defensive lineups to max out LeBron on offense. You cant play K Love at center more then anyone else when you have much better defensive options and tell me you are not punting defense.


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Cavs were ranked like 29th in defense, im not sure where rockets were but guessing its better lol.

Lebron is a very good defender BUT he saves his energy for offense so hes usually on below avg players. Everyone knows that lol, he get ripped for it a lot. JR can be a great defender. we saw that in 2016. even this post-season hes 100times better then regular season. TT is a below avg defender i don't understand why people think hes good lol. He's a good hustle rebounder mainly on offense. Hill's been hurt a lot but yes he can good.

ewing
05-12-2018, 02:35 PM
Cavs were ranked like 29th in defense, im not sure where rockets were but guessing its better lol.

Lebron is a very good defender BUT he saves his energy for offense so hes usually on below avg players. Everyone knows that lol, he get ripped for it a lot. JR can be a great defender. we saw that in 2016. even this post-season hes 100times better then regular season. TT is a below avg defender i don't understand why people think hes good lol. He's a good hustle rebounder mainly on offense. Hill's been hurt a lot but yes he can good.

Your point was that the team does not have good defenders. I disagree by staying they do, they just play bad defensive line ups so they will be better on offense. Saying they ranked poorly defensively doesnít counter that. I definitely disagree about Thompson. I think he is a very good defender. Houston would probably have ranked worse if they chained there best defensive bigs to the bench to stretch the floor during the regular season as well.


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Chronz
05-12-2018, 02:37 PM
Well just Incase that is true, I will refer to this maybe imposter at Bot.
Good ol JBot

IKnowHoops
05-12-2018, 03:14 PM
High quality analysis and discussion going on here. Keep it up boys.

Thanks for keeping the status quo

IKnowHoops
05-12-2018, 03:16 PM
Good ol JBot

😭 Yes Jbot it is

Bostonjorge
05-13-2018, 05:47 PM
So James is dominating the league in PER and only guys like Capela can even come close to this dominance? At the same time his +/- is saying he was the worst player in a playoff game?

These advances stats are to advanced for me.

KobeOwnSU
05-13-2018, 06:54 PM
Worst plus/minus of his playoff career today.

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europagnpilgrim
05-13-2018, 07:29 PM
PER
1. Bron 35.4
2. Harden 27.3
3. Capela 26.8
4. Giannis 26.5
5. AD 25.7


At age 33 its unbelievable how much better he is than everyone, but at the same time not really. Ive always thought the gap between him and the rest of the league was something like this.


Why would PER define who is the more dominant player? are your eyes watching something else for the past 15yrs? and it shows that PER is a joke to rank dominant players

see number 3 for proof because we all know Capela is a developing player who may someday make a all star team or two just as well as he may not, AD is top 5 at worst player in the entire league but is behind Capela out of a 10 game sample, good for Capela

this is what I mean by a fanatic gone wild, I have watched Bron dominant for a 12yr stretch of reg. season plus postseason play so this game 10 PER sample will not sway my view of Bron, just like it wont allow me to place Capela as a top 10 player in the nba after this playoffs, unless he goes full Dream 93 - 94 postseason mode from here on out and sustain it for the next 7yrs, if that happens then you and PER got something going

PER is for those who cant break down talent / game with their own 2 god divine given eyes, shame on those

tredigs
05-13-2018, 07:34 PM
Thanks for keeping the status quo

PER bra

Chronz
05-14-2018, 09:35 PM
PER bra
Per? As if there's ANY formula that wouldn't grade his performance as SOUNDLY above and beyond any other

Jeffy25
05-14-2018, 09:38 PM
Why would PER define who is the more dominant player? are your eyes watching something else for the past 15yrs? and it shows that PER is a joke to rank dominant players

see number 3 for proof because we all know Capela is a developing player who may someday make a all star team or two just as well as he may not, AD is top 5 at worst player in the entire league but is behind Capela out of a 10 game sample, good for Capela

this is what I mean by a fanatic gone wild, I have watched Bron dominant for a 12yr stretch of reg. season plus postseason play so this game 10 PER sample will not sway my view of Bron, just like it wont allow me to place Capela as a top 10 player in the nba after this playoffs, unless he goes full Dream 93 - 94 postseason mode from here on out and sustain it for the next 7yrs, if that happens then you and PER got something going

PER is for those who cant break down talent / game with their own 2 god divine given eyes, shame on those

And if you are only using your eyes, you have automatically completely failed at being able to analyze anything, much less a sport.

Our eyes are giant fail factors. A stat can be imperfect or not tell you what you want/need, and I'm not defending PER. But to throw out data for the eye test is literally the worst way to evaluate anything.

Jeffy25
05-14-2018, 09:41 PM
Per? As if there's ANY formula that wouldn't grade his performance as SOUNDLY above and beyond any other

He is leading in:

Minutes
Field Goalts
FGA
2's
2 attempts
free throws
points
win shares
+/-
CORP
PER


He is second in D rebounds
He is second in assists
5th in steals

ODB13
05-15-2018, 07:23 PM
And if you are only using your eyes, you have automatically completely failed at being able to analyze anything, much less a sport.

Our eyes are giant fail factors. A stat can be imperfect or not tell you what you want/need, and I'm not defending PER. But to throw out data for the eye test is literally the worst way to evaluate anything.

In a sport like baseball where we can isolate individual production, yes, but not in sports like basketball, football, and hockey, where there are too many moving pieces, which leads to too many unquantifiable factors at play. The statistics just aren't reliable on their own. You have to understand the intricacies of the sport in order to put them in a context.

If you don't understand this, you have failed, and aren't ready to analyze anything about this sport.

basketfan4life
05-16-2018, 06:15 AM
Is LeBron better than MJ in advanced stats? peak and prime ? Honest question.

Oakmont_4
05-16-2018, 08:02 AM
He is leading in:

Minutes
Field Goalts
FGA
2's
2 attempts
free throws
points
win shares
+/-
CORP
PER


He is second in D rebounds
He is second in assists
5th in steals

He's also played the Pacers and Raptors...How's he look vs the #1 defensive team in the NBA?

IndyRealist
05-16-2018, 09:21 AM
So James is dominating the league in PER and only guys like Capela can even come close to this dominance? At the same time his +/- is saying he was the worst player in a playoff game?

These advances stats are to advanced for me.

PER is not advanced. It's trash data that's been debunked soundly, but keeps popping back up because ESPN pushed it for so long. There's a reason Hollinger abandoned it when he left.

ODB13
05-16-2018, 07:27 PM
PER is not advanced. It's trash data that's been debunked soundly, but keeps popping back up because ESPN pushed it for so long. There's a reason Hollinger abandoned it when he left.

It attempts to do what our minds demand, but what can't be done: quantify everything that happens on a basketball court.

Laker Legend42
05-16-2018, 07:36 PM
He is leading in:

Minutes
Field Goalts
FGA
2's
2 attempts
free throws
points
win shares
+/-
CORP
PER


He is second in D rebounds
He is second in assists
5th in steals

The only issue is he has to do sooo much. He had help against Toronto by Toronto. They are deathly afraid of him. When your best player says ďI guess they have our numberĒ No. Lebron has your number. He out scored,out rebounded and out assisted Torontoís best two players alone. All of that is bound to catch up with him and I think it just did. I also have to say itís kinda his fault. He wanted to stick it to dan Gilbert so bad he wouldnít sign until all those dump trucks got paid. Now heís stuck with Tristan Kardashian and jr Smith. Until the end of this round.

prodigy
05-19-2018, 12:42 PM
Your point was that the team does not have good defenders. I disagree by staying they do, they just play bad defensive line ups so they will be better on offense. Saying they ranked poorly defensively doesnít counter that. I definitely disagree about Thompson. I think he is a very good defender. Houston would probably have ranked worse if they chained there best defensive bigs to the bench to stretch the floor during the regular season as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've watched much more cavs basketball then you and know my team better. i respect ur opinion. But TT is a butt defender. even more so last and this season. Even in 2016 he was nothing special. He's very soft and gets bullied. He has quicker feet so he can step out on a guard if a switch happens which is prob the strongest part of his game right now but thats still nothing. What keeps him off the floor too is he's horrible on offense lol. He was also hurt quite a bit.

ewing
05-19-2018, 05:04 PM
I've watched much more cavs basketball then you and know my team better. i respect ur opinion. But TT is a butt defender. even more so last and this season. Even in 2016 he was nothing special. He's very soft and gets bullied. He has quicker feet so he can step out on a guard if a switch happens which is prob the strongest part of his game right now but thats still nothing. What keeps him off the floor too is he's horrible on offense lol. He was also hurt quite a bit.

You certainly watch more so Iíll concede. Iíll watch him a little closer tonight as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
05-19-2018, 10:40 PM
Per? As if there's ANY formula that wouldn't grade his performance as SOUNDLY above and beyond any other

Exactly

IKnowHoops
05-19-2018, 10:43 PM
PER is not advanced. It's trash data that's been debunked soundly, but keeps popping back up because ESPN pushed it for so long. There's a reason Hollinger abandoned it when he left.

Itís not trash. It canít be. Itís all relative. And it definitely depicts the best seasons and players pretty well. The best Per seasons are also the best seasons.

Jeffy25
05-19-2018, 10:49 PM
He's also played the Pacers and Raptors...How's he look vs the #1 defensive team in the NBA?

5 minutes to go in Game 3 right now when I'm typing this, but
28.0 PPG
.508 FG%
19 FGA per game
11.0 APG
7.33 RPG
8/19 on 3's - .421 on 3's

I think he's looked fine.

He wasn't very good in Game 1, and he kind of took his foot off the pedal in game 2. I think he's looked fine overall.

Jeffy25
05-19-2018, 10:58 PM
In a sport like baseball where we can isolate individual production, yes, but not in sports like basketball, football, and hockey, where there are too many moving pieces, which leads to too many unquantifiable factors at play. The statistics just aren't reliable on their own. You have to understand the intricacies of the sport in order to put them in a context.

If you don't understand this, you have failed, and aren't ready to analyze anything about this sport.

Of course I understand this.

Spacing and other players affect plays. One defender can cost his entire teams defense. I realize all of that. They have data for things like this.

If it can be measured, it can be quantified. If it can be quantified, it can be evaluated.

Basketball doesn't have the advanced data out to the public like the other sports do. But the sport has the ability to easily do it. And I'm positive front offices have this data.

For the lack of a better way to describe it, but it's not a sport that exactly attracts the brightest sports minds in the world. There are plenty of very intelligent people in front offices, but it's a steep drop off when it gets to the fans. Unlike a sport like baseball, where bloggers know and understand data very closely to what the front offices know. It's because of the type of people the sports attract.


Basketball should, and easily could have a win probability driven stat. It would compile a teams win probability based on point disparity, lineups, and time left. It's shocking it doesn't exist, baseball has had it for over a decade, and it would be incredibly useful in basketball at determining late game strategy.
I imagine front offices and coaches have some sort of a metric like this though. But fans are clueless to it, and it's value. I'm yet to see a site with such a formula.


Basketball is very easy to define statistically. Every industry in the world uses advanced data to make decisions, evaluate, and improve. Basketball isn't excluded from that because it has moving parts, it's easily capable of being independently evaluated. Fans just don't have access to the data that the front offices know and understand. It hasn't crossed over to the fan universe yet. In baseball, it did 15+ years ago because of the types of fans the sport attracts. It will happen eventually to basketball.


That said, PER isn't that great/perfect. It has it's holes and flaws. But let's not throw out data because the sport has 9 other guys on the court at once. That's an easy issue to isolate and move through.

GREATNESS ONE
05-20-2018, 12:42 AM
Spend some 1 million + a year on keeping his body in world class shape, and it shows. Lebron has 2-3 more year of being a top 3 player.

IndyRealist
05-20-2018, 09:13 AM
Itís not trash. It canít be. Itís all relative. And it definitely depicts the best seasons and players pretty well. The best Per seasons are also the best seasons.

100% trash. The formula is fundamentally flawed. The break even on 2s is 30.4% and the break even on 3s is 21.4%. That makes zero sense to anyone who actually breaks down what the unnecessarily complicated formula is saying.

You don't like PER because it "depicts the best seasons and players pretty well". You like PER because it agrees with you. That's what it's designed to do, agree with public perception. It's not designed to be right.

ODB13
05-20-2018, 01:36 PM
Of course I understand this.

Spacing and other players affect plays. One defender can cost his entire teams defense. I realize all of that. They have data for things like this.

If it can be measured, it can be quantified. If it can be quantified, it can be evaluated.

Basketball doesn't have the advanced data out to the public like the other sports do. But the sport has the ability to easily do it. And I'm positive front offices have this data.

For the lack of a better way to describe it, but it's not a sport that exactly attracts the brightest sports minds in the world. There are plenty of very intelligent people in front offices, but it's a steep drop off when it gets to the fans. Unlike a sport like baseball, where bloggers know and understand data very closely to what the front offices know. It's because of the type of people the sports attract.


Basketball should, and easily could have a win probability driven stat. It would compile a teams win probability based on point disparity, lineups, and time left. It's shocking it doesn't exist, baseball has had it for over a decade, and it would be incredibly useful in basketball at determining late game strategy.
I imagine front offices and coaches have some sort of a metric like this though. But fans are clueless to it, and it's value. I'm yet to see a site with such a formula.


Basketball is very easy to define statistically. Every industry in the world uses advanced data to make decisions, evaluate, and improve. Basketball isn't excluded from that because it has moving parts, it's easily capable of being independently evaluated. Fans just don't have access to the data that the front offices know and understand. It hasn't crossed over to the fan universe yet. In baseball, it did 15+ years ago because of the types of fans the sport attracts. It will happen eventually to basketball.


That said, PER isn't that great/perfect. It has it's holes and flaws. But let's not throw out data because the sport has 9 other guys on the court at once. That's an easy issue to isolate and move through.

That's a whole lot of subjective conjecture wrapped in a blanket of assumptions from someone who prides himself on objectivity (which often, as in this case, is inapplicable, as it doesn't exist).

Basketball is very easy to define statistically. According to who? You? I wonder how many coaching legends would see a quote like that from some yuppie on the internet and spit out their cereal, bowling over in laughter.

Too often, this lazy way of defining the terms is nothing but an excuse for not understanding the intricacies of the sport. Labelling Scottie Pippen a "3 and D" player (who can't shoot 3's) and comparing the Riley Knicks to this year's Pacers is a far greater indicator of one's hoops acumen than knowing an obscure win probability stat.

Jeffy25
05-20-2018, 08:47 PM
That's a whole lot of subjective conjecture wrapped in a blanket of assumptions from someone who prides himself on objectivity (which often, as in this case, is inapplicable, as it doesn't exist).

Basketball is very easy to define statistically. According to who? You? I wonder how many coaching legends would see a quote like that from some yuppie on the internet and spit out their cereal, bowling over in laughter.

Too often, this lazy way of defining the terms is nothing but an excuse for not understanding the intricacies of the sport. Labelling Scottie Pippen a "3 and D" player (who can't shoot 3's) and comparing the Riley Knicks to this year's Pacers is a far greater indicator of one's hoops acumen than knowing an obscure win probability stat.

Your behavior makes it obvious that you are a troll, I have no idea why I attempted to provide civility to you.

You duck others when they talk to you

What would you refer to them as? There's always been those kinds of player archetype. Its not a perfect description but back in the 60s they were mostly known as corner men, tho I admit it's more of a tweener marker but the concept was kind of the same, go smaller and faster depending on where you slid the cornerman. I'm a big believer that the first successful small ball team in nba history were the Sixers once they lost Wilt, they played spread out more than any team for their era. Reds Knicks get a shout out, debuschere was kind of their version of 3 n d. More recently the Sixers with Bobby Jones when he played some 4 . Not perfect translations but are you arguing they never existed before Bruce Bowen or something


And just lamblast anything you think could be funny, take it out of context, run with it, and ignore all objectivity along the way.

You are clearly a troll.

IKnowHoops
05-20-2018, 10:11 PM
100% trash. The formula is fundamentally flawed. The break even on 2s is 30.4% and the break even on 3s is 21.4%. That makes zero sense to anyone who actually breaks down what the unnecessarily complicated formula is saying.

You don't like PER because it "depicts the best seasons and players pretty well". You like PER because it agrees with you. That's what it's designed to do, agree with public perception. It's not designed to be right.

Lol, you are forgetting one key point. It doesnít matter where the break even point is for 2ís or 3ís. If everyone is being judged by the same exact rules, u can change the break even point and guess what...everyone stays in the same order.

I love how Math works.

Sorry guy, your wrong, I like the stat only because when I look at best seasons in history, it might re accurately than any other stat mirrors those seasons.

IKnowHoops
05-20-2018, 10:14 PM
100% trash. The formula is fundamentally flawed. The break even on 2s is 30.4% and the break even on 3s is 21.4%. That makes zero sense to anyone who actually breaks down what the unnecessarily complicated formula is saying.

You don't like PER because it "depicts the best seasons and players pretty well". You like PER because it agrees with you. That's what it's designed to do, agree with public perception. It's not designed to be right.

Smart guy, Change the break even point to whatever you want it. What happens? Does Lebron, Mike, Wilt, Shaq still not sit at the top? What changes when your big problem with the stat changes...Iíll wait

IndyRealist
05-20-2018, 10:33 PM
Lol, you are forgetting one key point. It doesnít matter where the break even point is for 2ís or 3ís. If everyone is being judged by the same exact rules, u can change the break even point and guess what...everyone stays in the same order.

I love how Math works.

Sorry guy, your wrong, I like the stat only because when I look at best seasons in history, it might re accurately than any other stat mirrors those seasons.

Except it's not, because it's weighted improperly compared to the other statistics in PER, like rebounds, assists, etc. Because that's how math works. It gives WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for poor shooting. It is fundamentally flawed, which is why Hollinger abandoned it when he left ESPN. You know who doesn't make any moves even remotely approved by PER? Hollinger and the Grizzlies.

It's obvious you have no idea how PER works, and just look at the rankings and say "it says roughly what I think, so it must be fine."

IndyRealist
05-20-2018, 10:47 PM
Smart guy, Change the break even point to whatever you want it. What happens? Does Lebron, Mike, Wilt, Shaq still not sit at the top? What changes when your big problem with the stat changes...Iíll wait

Let's do it this way. Why do you think PER is effective, other than that you agree with it? How do you justify the FG vs FGA coefficients? How about it's poor correlation to team wins? What about the inherent bias in additive box score metrics? Why do you think countless man-hours and millions of dollars have been spent to create OTHER metrics, when PER was freely available for everyone to use? WHY DID ESPN CREATE RPM IF PER WAS FINE?

ODB13
05-21-2018, 01:05 AM
Your behavior makes it obvious that you are a troll, I have no idea why I attempted to provide civility to you.

You duck others when they talk to you



And just lamblast anything you think could be funny, take it out of context, run with it, and ignore all objectivity along the way.

You are clearly a troll.

Nice response to my three paragraph post calling out your nonsense.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 12:40 PM
Except it's not, because it's weighted improperly compared to the other statistics in PER, like rebounds, assists, etc. Because that's how math works. It gives WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for poor shooting. It is fundamentally flawed, which is why Hollinger abandoned it when he left ESPN. You know who doesn't make any moves even remotely approved by PER? Hollinger and the Grizzlies.

It's obvious you have no idea how PER works, and just look at the rankings and say "it says roughly what I think, so it must be fine."

Your so wrong about the poor shooting part of it. Because itís all relative. When itís all relative to everyone else, it doesnít matter. If we changed the threshold, nothing changes. And if poor shooting was rewarded, then guys like Bron, Shaw, Wilt , Jordan would be replaced by Iverson and Kobe, but they arenít are they. Law of relativity son.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 12:42 PM
Let's do it this way. Why do you think PER is effective, other than that you agree with it? How do you justify the FG vs FGA coefficients? How about it's poor correlation to team wins? What about the inherent bias in additive box score metrics? Why do you think countless man-hours and millions of dollars have been spent to create OTHER metrics, when PER was freely available for everyone to use? WHY DID ESPN CREATE RPM IF PER WAS FINE?

PER is good because of its results. Other stats suck because of there results. Like I said, the best seasons in history absolutely correlate with PER. Prove me wrong please with an example.

And team wins really? If you want an individual stat to correlate to team wins, when there are 4 other moving parts to that team, then you donít want to know an individuals impact. You want to know how much help, that individual is getting. Two diff things. Unless you want to go to winshares48 which I also like. Iíd use both in conjunction with a few others and eye test. But your kidding yourself if Brons Per gap doesnít reflect what his dominance has been like in these playioffs. It absolutely reflects it. Prove otherwise.

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 01:54 PM
PER is good because of its results. Other stats suck because of there results. Like I said, the best seasons in history absolutely correlate with PER. Prove me wrong please with an example.

And team wins really? If you want an individual stat to correlate to team wins, when there are 4 other moving parts to that team, then you donít want to know an individuals impact. You want to know how much help, that individual is getting. Two diff things. Unless you want to go to winshares48 which I also like. Iíd use both in conjunction with a few others and eye test. But your kidding yourself if Brons Per gap doesnít reflect what his dominance has been like in these playioffs. It absolutely reflects it. Prove otherwise.

^ This, friends, is the definition of cognitive bias.

I don't have to prove sh**. You made the claim that PER is relevant, you can provide evidence as to why. But you can't because you don't actually understand how it works. So I'll give a detailed explanation as to why it doesn't work, then you'll say some nonsense like "because math" and pretend like you're a debate captain. That's the same nonsense flat earthers and anti-vaxxers try to pull.

You don't have to know how PER works. It's not required to understand basketball. But don't pretend like you did the research and then come at people who actually do.

I literally only came into this thread to say "don't judge advanced stats by PER, it's like 20 years old and not particularly advanced". Even ESPN is pushing RPM instead, and they own PER. You are the guy rocking a Nokia brick in the age of Iphones, and thinks it's perfectly comparable.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:01 PM
^ This, friends, is the definition of cognitive bias.

I don't have to prove sh**. You made the claim that PER is relevant, you can provide evidence as to why. But you can't because you don't actually understand how it works. So I'll give a detailed explanation as to why it doesn't work, then you'll say some nonsense like "because math" and pretend like you're a debate captain. That's the same nonsense flat earthers and anti-vaxxers try to pull.

You don't have to know how PER works. It's not required to understand basketball. But don't pretend like you did the research and then come at people who actually do.

I literally only came into this thread to say "don't judge advanced stats by PER, it's like 20 years old and not particularly advanced". Even ESPN is pushing RPM instead, and they own PER. You are the guy rocking a Nokia brick in the age of Iphones, and thinks it's perfectly comparable.

Math is absolute sir. Sorry, your wrong. Iíve done the math on the equation. Your gripe changes absolutely nothing and u are not understanding relativity. If you did, u would understand ur argument has zero legs and changes nothing.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:14 PM
^ This, friends, is the definition of cognitive bias.

I don't have to prove sh**. You made the claim that PER is relevant, you can provide evidence as to why. But you can't because you don't actually understand how it works. So I'll give a detailed explanation as to why it doesn't work, then you'll say some nonsense like "because math" and pretend like you're a debate captain. That's the same nonsense flat earthers and anti-vaxxers try to pull.

You don't have to know how PER works. It's not required to understand basketball. But don't pretend like you did the research and then come at people who actually do.

I literally only came into this thread to say "don't judge advanced stats by PER, it's like 20 years old and not particularly advanced". Even ESPN is pushing RPM instead, and they own PER. You are the guy rocking a Nokia brick in the age of Iphones, and thinks it's perfectly comparable.

Sorry that my strong bias recognizes Jordan, Lebron, Shaq, Wilt, and Kareem as the most dominant players. My bad

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 03:14 PM
Math is absolute sir. Sorry, your wrong. Iíve done the math on the equation. Your gripe changes absolutely nothing and u are not understanding relativity. If you did, u would understand ur argument has zero legs and changes nothing.

Did you just say "I've done my research"? Lol. Just stop.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=mxkDW5KLA5DaswXS1byoAQ&q=i%27ve+done+my+research+meme&oq=i%27ve+done+my+resear&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.1.2.0l3j0i30j0i24.4007.11727..13043...1....227 .1704.15j2j2......0....1.......3..35i39.GO05%2FOQr 2Bo%3D#imgrc=_

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:15 PM
Did you just say "I've done my research"? Lol. Just stop.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=mxkDW5KLA5DaswXS1byoAQ&q=i%27ve+done+my+research+meme&oq=i%27ve+done+my+resear&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.1.2.0l3j0i30j0i24.4007.11727..13043...1....227 .1704.15j2j2......0....1.......3..35i39.GO05%2FOQr 2Bo%3D#imgrc=_

Uh no I didnít say that. Can you read or nah? I think ur showing bias by changing words to fit your rebuttal lololol. Since you canít refute math...lmfao

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:21 PM
Did you just say "I've done my research"? Lol. Just stop.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=mxkDW5KLA5DaswXS1byoAQ&q=i%27ve+done+my+research+meme&oq=i%27ve+done+my+resear&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.1.2.0l3j0i30j0i24.4007.11727..13043...1....227 .1704.15j2j2......0....1.......3..35i39.GO05%2FOQr 2Bo%3D#imgrc=_

Didnít know u were this pathetic and worthless. Finding memes to go at words u put into someoneís mouth. Wow. Your a tool. Congrats boi.

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 03:26 PM
Let me give a brief explanation of why you are wrong. PER is a cumulative, additive box score metric of the form aX+bY+c. You are saying b doesn't matter, because every player uses the same b. Say b is 0.05, and we change it to 5.0. By your logic as long as the same formula is used for every player it's fine, because it's all relative. But what you're missing is that b is now 100 times more valuable than a or c, relative to what it actually is supposed to be. That's skews the results in favor of players who do Y, as opposed to players who do X.

That's why coefficients matter.

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 03:28 PM
Didnít know u were this pathetic and worthless. Finding memes to go at words u put into someoneís mouth. Wow. Your a tool. Congrats boi.

If you've "done the math" why can't you talk about the math?

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:38 PM
Let me give a brief explanation of why you are wrong. PER is a cumulative, additive box score metric of the form aX+bY+c. You are saying b doesn't matter, because every player uses the same b. Say b is 0.05, and we change it to 5.0. By your logic as long as the same formula is used for every player it's fine, because it's all relative. But what you're missing is that b is now 100 times more valuable than a or c, relative to what it actually is supposed to be. That's skews the results in favor of players who do Y, as opposed to players who do X.

That's why coefficients matter.

True, but your change would be a .3 to a .5 or .6 which would change nothing. Stick to this scenario, not some fictitious ďwell if this happenedĒ. Yes we know there exceptions to every rule, but for PER, ur gripe, would make zero difference and if anything make Bron, Jordan, and Shaq Stan up even more b cause as is, they are the most efficient volume scorers in history so if ur upset with the way efficiency is shown in PER, your change would make Bron even more dominant so I donít know why ur mad when the result is giving more props to better efficiency because....wait for it...itís all relative.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 03:51 PM
If you've "done the math" why can't you talk about the math?

If u donít understand relativity...

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 04:01 PM
True, but your change would be a .3 to a .5 or .6 which would change nothing. Stick to this scenario, not some fictitious ďwell if this happenedĒ. Yes we know there exceptions to every rule, but for PER, ur gripe, would make zero difference and if anything make Bron, Jordan, and Shaq Stan up even more b cause as is, they are the most efficient volume scorers in history so if ur upset with the way efficiency is shown in PER, your change would make Bron even more dominant so I donít know why ur mad when the result is giving more props to better efficiency because....wait for it...itís all relative.

Changing a 0.3 to a 0.6 DOUBLES THE EFFECT of Y, ranking players who do Y much higher than players who do X. 0.3 and 0.6 are VASTLY different. If it doesn't matter, then why even go through the laborous process to determine coefficients for PER? Why not just make all the coefficients 1?

This is 6th grade pre-algebra, man.

ewing
05-21-2018, 04:05 PM
Changing a 0.3 to a 0.6 DOUBLES THE EFFECT of Y, ranking players who do Y much higher than players who do X. 0.3 and 0.6 are VASTLY different. If it doesn't matter, then why even go through the laborous process to determine coefficients for PER? Why not just make all the coefficients 1?

This is 6th grade pre-algebra, man.

Hey this thread is about sucking up to LeBron

Jamiecballer
05-21-2018, 04:06 PM
I am way too old to waste an hour of my life dissecting this conversation but Indy is right as usual.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
05-21-2018, 04:19 PM
Using one stat to justify an argument is a recipe for ignorance. A stat is not a ranking and it seems IKH is confusing that in reference to PER = ranking as most of the players with the highest PER tend to lead the GOAT-list. It's a coincidence for sure and there is likely some truth to it but without using numerous statistical arguments and facts, you're just relying on a mathematical formula that was never designed to rank a player. IKH likely loves PER because it has David Robinson as a top five ever in PER ranking. That same PER ranking has Bob Pettit, Chris Paul, and numerous other players that are ranked highly but clearly don't belong in X spot. Is it a good statistic? Sure. It's a statistic that seems to have some truth to it but it's a meaningless one if you're using it for a completely opposite purpose of what it was intended for. Simply put, one stat = not an argument. I can manipulate stats to boost X player and denegrate Y player and vice-versa.

Chronz
05-21-2018, 04:34 PM
PER is useful in a pinch, you just have to be cognitive of what it values. I think you guys are losing sight of the fact that there is no barometer that values anyone else greater these playoffs. PER the highest of anyone with a significant sample. Highest ws/48 despite playing on a **** defensive team AND carrying the greatest minutes load. BPM same. Even that cookie WP prolly has him as the best given his offensive efficiency is also tops among those guys outside of Horford who I'm sure WP is undercutting heavily for his lack of rebounds given his position, might overrate capella and Gobert but bron has the best combination of every stat so regardless of your preference, he's tops.

And subjectively , we shouldn't discount the sniff test on this one

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 04:41 PM
PER is useful in a pinch, you just have to be cognitive of what it values. I think you guys are losing sight of the fact that there is no barometer that values anyone else greater these playoffs. PER the highest of anyone with a significant sample. Highest ws/48 despite playing on a **** defensive team AND carrying the greatest minutes load. BPM same. Even that cookie WP prolly has him as the best given his offensive efficiency is also tops among those guys outside of Horford who I'm sure WP is undercutting heavily for his lack of rebounds given his position, might overrate capella and Gobert but bron has the best combination of every stat so regardless of your preference, he's tops.

And subjectively , we shouldn't discount the sniff test on this one

I deliberately haven't said anything about Lebron's playoff performance. I wasn't even replying to IKH. My comment was not to judge analytics by PER, because PER is 20 years old from before anyone knew what they were doing. There's infinitely better data out there.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 05:12 PM
Using one stat to justify an argument is a recipe for ignorance. A stat is not a ranking and it seems IKH is confusing that in reference to PER = ranking as most of the players with the highest PER tend to lead the GOAT-list. It's a coincidence for sure and there is likely some truth to it but without using numerous statistical arguments and facts, you're just relying on a mathematical formula that was never designed to rank a player. IKH likely loves PER because it has David Robinson as a top five ever in PER ranking. That same PER ranking has Bob Pettit, Chris Paul, and numerous other players that are ranked highly but clearly don't belong in X spot. Is it a good statistic? Sure. It's a statistic that seems to have some truth to it but it's a meaningless one if you're using it for a completely opposite purpose of what it was intended for. Simply put, one stat = not an argument. I can manipulate stats to boost X player and denegrate Y player and vice-versa.

This is all Iím saying as opposed to it being complete worthless trash as Indy stated

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 05:15 PM
2 points that Iím making.

PER is not worthless
PER is accurately depicting the gap between Bron and everyone else.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 05:25 PM
Changing a 0.3 to a 0.6 DOUBLES THE EFFECT of Y, ranking players who do Y much higher than players who do X. 0.3 and 0.6 are VASTLY different. If it doesn't matter, then why even go through the laborous process to determine coefficients for PER? Why not just make all the coefficients 1?

This is 6th grade pre-algebra, man.

Yes itís 6th grade. All these ifs. Letís be real. Any change u make, isnít going to be big. And the order wonít change. All the guys at the top score a lot as scoring is done more than anything else. Any change you make to scoring wonít matter at all. Now if you made huge changes to assts and or rebounds yeah, but making a point change will not matter at all and that is what we are talking about. That is why u are being as vague as possible when speaking about xyz instead of focusing on what we are talking about. Changing the scoring will not matter so your point holds no weight at all.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 05:30 PM
Using one stat to justify an argument is a recipe for ignorance. A stat is not a ranking and it seems IKH is confusing that in reference to PER = ranking as most of the players with the highest PER tend to lead the GOAT-list. It's a coincidence for sure and there is likely some truth to it but without using numerous statistical arguments and facts, you're just relying on a mathematical formula that was never designed to rank a player. IKH likely loves PER because it has David Robinson as a top five ever in PER ranking. That same PER ranking has Bob Pettit, Chris Paul, and numerous other players that are ranked highly but clearly don't belong in X spot. Is it a good statistic? Sure. It's a statistic that seems to have some truth to it but it's a meaningless one if you're using it for a completely opposite purpose of what it was intended for. Simply put, one stat = not an argument. I can manipulate stats to boost X player and denegrate Y player and vice-versa.

Oh and Flash, every advanced Stat has Drob at top 5 elite level. You donít have to look hard. I could completely do gnome PER and destroy anything with any stats you want to use concerning Drob

FlashBolt
05-21-2018, 05:42 PM
Oh and Flash, every advanced Stat has Drob at top 5 elite level. You donít have to look hard. I could completely do gnome PER and destroy anything with any stats you want to use concerning Drob

There's a fairly easy explanation as to why that happened but let's get to the truth.

1) David Robinson was a piss-poor playoff player so simply barfing out his regular season advanced numbers don't compensate for how HISTORICALLY GREAT he would be if he showed up in the playoffs. Avery Johnson, one of D.Rob's good friends stated how terrified D.Rob was playing against Hakeem. Sorry, but there is no excuse. If he's every bit as deserving of his regular season advanced metrics, then please explain to me why it did not come close to being duplicated in the playoffs.

2) Lol. I can care less about PER. I already told you, players who play X way will always have a higher PER than another player who plays Y way. That's not to say those two players are comparable but different system and styles will affect PER more than any other form - which proves that it's not a stat that measures actual impact. As assurance of that, Draymond is consistently low in PER compared to his counterparts but his value on the court is far more impressive than anything PER will try to tell you.

3) D-Rob had a low amount of prime and peak seasons. His injuries and the arrival of Timmy D aligned perfectly to where his overall PER didn't take a hit as his career slowed down. If not for Timmy D, it is very unlikely we'd see D-Rob win a ring, play at a semi-high level being the 2nd/3rd option on the Spurs, and maintain his PER. That's the truth, dude. D-Rob was a great NBA center but he could have been a historic one. Why he didn't is due to a lack of individual playoff success, a short career of being elite of the elite, being in the same decade as Shaq, Ewing, and Hakeem, and the noticeable difference in performance in the playoffs. You can blame his teammates all you want but again, his regular season PER (which you tend to value so much), puts him as a top five NBA player ever based on PER. If that's the standard you put forth, there is no excuse to underperform that badly in the playoffs. NONE.

IndyRealist
05-21-2018, 06:13 PM
Yes itís 6th grade. All these ifs. Letís be real. Any change u make, isnít going to be big. And the order wonít change. All the guys at the top score a lot as scoring is done more than anything else. Any change you make to scoring wonít matter at all. Now if you made huge changes to assts and or rebounds yeah, but making a point change will not matter at all and that is what we are talking about. That is why u are being as vague as possible when speaking about xyz instead of focusing on what we are talking about. Changing the scoring will not matter so your point holds no weight at all.

The whole point is by disproportionately weighting one stat over the other, you skew the results. If you're talking about rankings, that could bump someone over someone else, or even drop someone like Dennis Rodman down from a HoF career to just average (career 14.6 PER). Does ANYONE think Rodman was just an average player? Does anyone think Jamal "I never saw a shot I didn't like" Crawford is a BETTER player than Rodman (15.2 PER)? Is Crawford destined for the Hall of Fame?

And I'm genuinely curious....what do you think Y is in the example? Because from your comments it doesn't sound like you have the slightest idea how PER is calculated. But you did the math.

IKnowHoops
05-21-2018, 10:45 PM
There's a fairly easy explanation as to why that happened but let's get to the truth.

1) David Robinson was a piss-poor playoff player so simply barfing out his regular season advanced numbers don't compensate for how HISTORICALLY GREAT he would be if he showed up in the playoffs. Avery Johnson, one of D.Rob's good friends stated how terrified D.Rob was playing against Hakeem. Sorry, but there is no excuse. If he's every bit as deserving of his regular season advanced metrics, then please explain to me why it did not come close to being duplicated in the playoffs.

2) Lol. I can care less about PER. I already told you, players who play X way will always have a higher PER than another player who plays Y way. That's not to say those two players are comparable but different system and styles will affect PER more than any other form - which proves that it's not a stat that measures actual impact. As assurance of that, Draymond is consistently low in PER compared to his counterparts but his value on the court is far more impressive than anything PER will try to tell you.

3) D-Rob had a low amount of prime and peak seasons. His injuries and the arrival of Timmy D aligned perfectly to where his overall PER didn't take a hit as his career slowed down. If not for Timmy D, it is very unlikely we'd see D-Rob win a ring, play at a semi-high level being the 2nd/3rd option on the Spurs, and maintain his PER. That's the truth, dude. D-Rob was a great NBA center but he could have been a historic one. Why he didn't is due to a lack of individual playoff success, a short career of being elite of the elite, being in the same decade as Shaq, Ewing, and Hakeem, and the noticeable difference in performance in the playoffs. You can blame his teammates all you want but again, his regular season PER (which you tend to value so much), puts him as a top five NBA player ever based on PER. If that's the standard you put forth, there is no excuse to underperform that badly in the playoffs. NONE.

No the reason he has a low amount of peak seasons is because he did his time in the Navy before instantly becoming the best center in the game as a Rookie, but Flash you didnít see David live ever so we donít need to do this again.

You wouldnít know but in his Prime he 1st team on all star team over Hakeem 4/6 years. Abusing Dream/Shaq/Ewing multiple times is why he is all time.

Chronz
05-21-2018, 11:03 PM
I deliberately haven't said anything about Lebron's playoff performance. I wasn't even replying to IKH. My comment was not to judge analytics by PER, because PER is 20 years old from before anyone knew what they were doing. There's infinitely better data out there.
Well sorta (we all have our pets) but I think you overstate it's antiquity. All these linear weights are just other ways of viewing the game and its held up just fine over the years. Anything PER tells you is usually not far off from the rest, at least at the top and definitely when it's depicting such a drastic gap. We got fancier stats but they have their own set of flaws. Idk, I can spot when people misuse PER in a comparison or debate but this idea of *****ing about PER simply for being referenced in favor of superior metrics (especially if they'll basically all unanimously agree here) is sorta like complaining that you dated the wrong Kardashian .

More-Than-Most
05-21-2018, 11:15 PM
year 15 with just another insane playoff performance... he is goat

FlashBolt
05-21-2018, 11:42 PM
No the reason he has a low amount of peak seasons is because he did his time in the Navy before instantly becoming the best center in the game as a Rookie, but Flash you didnít see David live ever so we donít need to do this again.

You wouldnít know but in his Prime he 1st team on all star team over Hakeem 4/6 years. Abusing Dream/Shaq/Ewing multiple times is why he is all time.

This shows why you DON'T KNOW HOOPS. I never said he missed peak seasons due to injuries. I said he's had a low amount of them in general - which is simply a fact. Then injuries and the arrival of Timmy D aligned to where his PER wasn't that affected since he's playing less games and still having an "impact" playing second fiddle to Timmy D. As he got older, his PER would have affected his averages because they would naturally be lower. You don't even know how the stat works. No one respects David Robinson as a player in the same category of tier 1 or tier 2 players because he disappears in the playoffs. I don't even know WTF you're saying about abusing people multiple times. Can you explain why his own teammate said he was shaking at the thought of Hakeem? And calling for help to guard Hakeem? Lmao, the only hoops you know is Nerf basketball hoops. Sit down and learn something.

IndyRealist
05-22-2018, 12:25 AM
Well sorta (we all have our pets) but I think you overstate it's antiquity. All these linear weights are just other ways of viewing the game and its held up just fine over the years. Anything PER tells you is usually not far off from the rest, at least at the top and definitely when it's depicting such a drastic gap. We got fancier stats but they have their own set of flaws. Idk, I can spot when people misuse PER in a comparison or debate but this idea of *****ing about PER simply for being referenced in favor of superior metrics (especially if they'll basically all unanimously agree here) is sorta like complaining that you dated the wrong Kardashian .

None of them are ranked very differently at the top, because the top players are in a different stratosphere than the rest. It's obvious no matter what. Sure, the top 5 looks fine in PER. But it also probably looks roughly the same in EFF, TENDEX, etc. I can't look those up because no one uses them anymore, because they're crap. PER is no more statistically valid than just adding the box score numbers together and adding in a roll of the dice, because the coefficients have no merit. They're literally just made up numbers because they sounded good.

RPM is built on APM and is better in every way. Why would you still use APM? Everything that came after PER does it better, because they said "This is what PER does wrong, let's not do that."

IKnowHoops
05-22-2018, 03:20 AM
This shows why you DON'T KNOW HOOPS. I never said he missed peak seasons due to injuries. I said he's had a low amount of them in general - which is simply a fact. Then injuries and the arrival of Timmy D aligned to where his PER wasn't that affected since he's playing less games and still having an "impact" playing second fiddle to Timmy D. As he got older, his PER would have affected his averages because they would naturally be lower. You don't even know how the stat works. No one respects David Robinson as a player in the same category of tier 1 or tier 2 players because he disappears in the playoffs. I don't even know WTF you're saying about abusing people multiple times. Can you explain why his own teammate said he was shaking at the thought of Hakeem? And calling for help to guard Hakeem? Lmao, the only hoops you know is Nerf basketball hoops. Sit down and learn something.

How many games did you watch Drob play in his Prime?

What donít you understand about Drob abusing the greatest centers of all time?

Who cares about his career PER? Iím talking peak, which destroys the peak of everyone not named Shaq/Bron/Wilt/ Kareem/Jordan

Dude you got nerve talking about someone you never saw play live in his Prime.

Sigh, imagine Anthony Davis 3 inches taller. That was The Admiral. You and your playoff bs. You never watched a single playoff game when Drob was in his Prime yet you reference it like you know.

Flash, you have not a clue as to what you are talking about. Talking Drob with some little boy who never saw him play is tough. Man dude you just live to run ur mouth, regardless of what you know. Itís sad and a bad habit.

IKnowHoops
05-22-2018, 03:23 AM
Itís funny to me that the only guys that talk bad about Drob, are the ones who didnít see him play.

ewing
05-22-2018, 08:32 AM
Itís funny to me that the only guys that talk bad about Drob, are the ones who didnít see him play.

he was soft

IKnowHoops
05-22-2018, 10:59 AM
he was soft

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA

Soft Drob gives Patrick Ewing and the rest of the Knicks 45/16 and whoops there aóóó-

ewing
05-22-2018, 11:47 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA

Soft Drob gives Patrick Ewing and the rest of the Knicks 45/16 and whoops there aóóó-

So

kdspurman
05-22-2018, 12:13 PM
No the reason he has a low amount of peak seasons is because he did his time in the Navy before instantly becoming the best center in the game as a Rookie, but Flash you didnít see David live ever so we donít need to do this again.

You wouldnít know but in his Prime he 1st team on all star team over Hakeem 4/6 years. Abusing Dream/Shaq/Ewing multiple times is why he is all time.

So many people who think of D-Rob associate him with that series vs Houston. Def unfair, but it is what it is. He got outplayed, but he was definitely more than that series.

kdspurman
05-22-2018, 12:25 PM
This shows why you DON'T KNOW HOOPS. I never said he missed peak seasons due to injuries. I said he's had a low amount of them in general - which is simply a fact. Then injuries and the arrival of Timmy D aligned to where his PER wasn't that affected since he's playing less games and still having an "impact" playing second fiddle to Timmy D. As he got older, his PER would have affected his averages because they would naturally be lower. You don't even know how the stat works. No one respects David Robinson as a player in the same category of tier 1 or tier 2 players because he disappears in the playoffs. I don't even know WTF you're saying about abusing people multiple times. Can you explain why his own teammate said he was shaking at the thought of Hakeem? And calling for help to guard Hakeem? Lmao, the only hoops you know is Nerf basketball hoops. Sit down and learn something.

Yea cause Rodman is such a credible source :laugh2:

It's no secret he wasn't on the best of terms with the Spurs, hence him getting dealt for Will Perdue. You really think a guy like him wouldn't say some outlandish **** after the fact? I mean, you don't have to do a ton of research to hear some of the things he's said that are a bit head scratch worthy.

Pierzynski4Prez
05-22-2018, 12:25 PM
Robinson was a beast. I love how we have to talk down an absolutely elite player like him to boost our own agenda, whatever that may be.

Rivera
05-22-2018, 01:48 PM
No the reason he has a low amount of peak seasons is because he did his time in the Navy before instantly becoming the best center in the game as a Rookie, but Flash you didnít see David live ever so we donít need to do this again.

You wouldnít know but in his Prime he 1st team on all star team over Hakeem 4/6 years. Abusing Dream/Shaq/Ewing multiple times is why he is all time.

Bro what are you talking about. Your memory isnt good on this one. Your love for DRob is clouding everything else


in 42 career regular season matchups. DRob outscored Hakeem 12 times. 12/42, thats it. If thats your definition of abusing, sheesh

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=David+Robinson&player_id1_select=David+Robinson&player_id1=robinda01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id2_select=Hakeem+Olajuwon&player_id2=olajuha01&idx=players

Drob got the best of Orlando Shaq but Shaq still averaged 25 ppg and 13 rpg, mind you when Shaq was in LAL (starting in 97) the stats dont even compare between Shaq v Drob

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=David+Robinson&player_id1_select=David+Robinson&player_id1=robinda01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2_select=Shaquille+O%27Neal&player_id2=onealsh01&idx=players

Ewing was the only one Drob "abused"


Love D Rob easily one of the best. Yes DRob was a beast. But you're overrating him to make a point about PER

prodigy
05-22-2018, 02:54 PM
You certainly watch more so Iíll concede. Iíll watch him a little closer tonight as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TT has been playing the best defense ive seen him play in 3 years I'll def give him that. He always owns Horford for some reason. But I just don't see consistent enough defense from him to consider him good at it. unless its against Horford.

BKLYNpigeon
05-22-2018, 03:15 PM
Lebron 35.4 PER against 3 Mediocre East Teams.

SteBO
05-22-2018, 04:43 PM
Lebron 35.4 PER against 3 Mediocre East Teams.
Yet ĎBron is the one with the 35.4 PER. Dismiss it all you want, but weíre witnessing all-time great stuff here, and itís been going on for over a decade, which is part of the problem. LBJ is so dominant that we get numb to it, and cease to be impressed. Ho-hum.....

Jeffy25
05-22-2018, 04:51 PM
Lebron 35.4 PER against 3 Mediocre East Teams.

Kind of crazy than that Jordan never topped a 32.0 playoff PER despite getting to play sub .500 teams in the playoffs.


He averaged a 28.4 PER throughout his 6 peat

Bron has had a 29.4 PER since 09 in the playoffs (including that Dallas series).


Of course, that's just PER.

Chronz
05-22-2018, 04:56 PM
Lebron 35.4 PER against 3 Mediocre East Teams.
The entire nba is mediocre in that case. PER accounts for that tho.

Its still epic domination no matter how you slice it.

Tg11
05-22-2018, 06:42 PM
We all know Bron is a free agent this summer and after the season is over LeBron has a huge decision to make. Stay in Cleveland and try to make another run for a title. Or does LeBron high tail it out of Cleveland again?

I think we all know this about LeBron that he will weigh his options. LeBron is a business man first and he will want to be afforded the best chance to win a title. However, he will want to also be in a situation where his family will thrive too.

Furthermore, it begs the question of where LeBron goes July 1st headed into next season

I mean if the #8 pick is not enough to entice LeBron to stay then the only way to do that is to get another game changing signing in Cleveland to try to play with LeBron and Love

However, if Dan Gilbert and company fail and LeBron definitely leaves which teams can you see The King going to?

Realistically, the only markets I can see LeBron in or going to are:

LA to go play for the Lakers or Clippers since both teams are in Los Angeles and LeBron does have a home out in LA. LeBron also has businesses in LA as well and if he wants an acting career no better place than Showtime playing for either LA team if he goes out West

New York...another big name market that rivals that out of LA. New York is also bright lights big city and LeBron playing in MSG would enough to attract all big names in New York like Spike Lee, etc. Plus LeBron stays in the East and gives the Knicks a chance to be a contender especially if he teams up with Porzingis.

Philly to join up with Embiid and Simmons...another East option and the Sixers would be even more dangerous with LeBron in that lineup with all those youngins that they already have they can be instant favorites in the East.

Houston to team up with CP3 and Harden if he goes out West

R. Johnson#3
05-22-2018, 06:45 PM
He's going to go to the Raptors because he hates Trump and feels bad about bullying DeMar and Kyle. Masai will hire a puppet as HC while Lebron calls all the shots. We'll win a championship and Lebron will be mayor of Toronto.

AntiG
05-22-2018, 06:45 PM
he's going to pull a Durant and sign with the C's because he misses Kyrie

Tg11
05-22-2018, 06:49 PM
No way LeBron would ever go to Toronto...he would honestly not be caught dead in a Raptors jersey much less playing for a team that he continues to dominate and beat up on. If LeBron ever did jump ship to Toronto they would be instant favorites to win it all but that is even a far stretch.

LeBron believe it or not I could even see him going to Milwaukee to join forces with Giannis, Middleton, Parker, Maker, etc.

LeBron as a Buck makes the most sense

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 06:51 PM
New York. Iím calling it. Knicks and Lebron are a match made in Heaven. David Fizdale was hired to bring Lebron to NYC. The best player in the biggest market, one starved for an NBA championship since the 1970s. Lebron to Knicks is my strongest guess.

R. Johnson#3
05-22-2018, 06:59 PM
New York. Iím calling it. Knicks and Lebron are a match made in Heaven. David Fizdale was hired to bring Lebron to NYC. The best player in the biggest market, one starved for an NBA championship since the 1970s. Lebron to Knicks is my strongest guess.

The funny thing is I was joking about my Raptors post and you're actually serious.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 07:06 PM
The funny thing is I was joking about my Raptors post and you're actually serious.

Because itís the truth.

Tg11
05-22-2018, 07:07 PM
LeBron going to New York makes the most sense financially think about it. New York is just as big a market as Los Angeles is. New York is a city filled with bright lights and stars just like LA. Not to mention New York has much more opportunities for LeBron business wise as far as expanding his global empire and not to mention New York is just as rich a city as Los Angeles is

So many private schools his children could go to in the New York area. Not to mention his wife I think she would probably like living out in New York more than she would LA.

Not to mention the Fizdale connection as well. Think about the amount of revenue LeBron could garner by becoming a Knick. Ticket sales at all time high and the amount of big name guys you could attract too to come to New York as well.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 07:08 PM
Read the OPs post regarding New York. Thatís exactly why he would come here.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 07:09 PM
.

Tg11
05-22-2018, 07:10 PM
Plus LeBron playing every night to a packed house in MSG...match made in heaven not to mention LeBron being an icon playing in the NBA's most iconic arena in New York is an even better reason for him to go to New York as well

LOb0
05-22-2018, 07:36 PM
There is no chance in hell Bron goes to NY. It's laughable.

TrueFan420
05-22-2018, 08:02 PM
he's going to pull a Durant and sign with the C's because he misses Kyrie

They had the cap space to sign him they'd certainly be a team on his list

Westbrook36
05-22-2018, 08:21 PM
I honestly don't think market factors all that much into the equation..he is at the point where he's his own market. The driving force behind his decision will be leaving his hometown again or joining a contender where he can try to take down the Warriors.

europagnpilgrim
05-22-2018, 08:41 PM
Whatever team gives him the satisfaction of taking out the Warriors or being right there with them for the next 3 - 4 yrs

he could go the comfy route and stay put, or he could go on one last challenge and win a title with a 3rd franchise, which is more impressive to me than a player like Duncan who won 5 with one team, not saying Duncan couldn't have done it but he didn't and Bron may do it

Bostonjorge
05-22-2018, 08:52 PM
I feel like heís going to LA. Heís not going if George donít go and if Lakers are not willing to make another move that James feels like is the right move to make to win now. Meaning moving young players. If James stays in Cleveland heís admitting he canít beat GS. They donít really have any room to make a big splash to challenge the West elite and the new east elite next year. The advantage of staying in Cleveland is not winning but getting the biggest pay day in Basketball history.

When James does go to LA it will be because he feels they have enough to not only challenge GS but beat GS. Beating GS will be and should be the only reason James leaves Cleveland.

Tg11
05-22-2018, 09:09 PM
Why would he go to the Lakers when they are not even a contender? They are nowhere close to that right now and the Lakers have a future already in place. Why sacrifice that to try to take a gamble to get Bron? Bron by himself is not enough of a bargain for the Lakers to even compete in the West and not to mention the problems between IT and LeBron is another factor as to why Bron would probably not want to play in LA. You also add in the LaVar Ball baggage too that comes with playing with his son Lonzo.

lavell12
05-22-2018, 09:25 PM
I think he stays in Cleveland. His legacy would be hurt much more if he joined a super team and lost to GSW than if he won

Tg11
05-22-2018, 09:34 PM
If LeBron stays in Cleveland they wouldn't have the necessary cap space to go after a big name in the summer to pair up with LeBron and Love...not unless they do sign and trades or 3 or 4 team deals

ewing
05-22-2018, 09:38 PM
Iím sure he will make his decesion quickly as he hates all the attention


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lakers + Giants
05-22-2018, 09:41 PM
LeBron going to New York makes the most sense financially think about it. New York is just as big a market as Los Angeles is. New York is a city filled with bright lights and stars just like LA. Not to mention New York has much more opportunities for LeBron business wise as far as expanding his global empire and not to mention New York is just as rich a city as Los Angeles is

So many private schools his children could go to in the New York area. Not to mention his wife I think she would probably like living out in New York more than she would LA.

Not to mention the Fizdale connection as well. Think about the amount of revenue LeBron could garner by becoming a Knick. Ticket sales at all time high and the amount of big name guys you could attract too to come to New York as well.

He already has all of that in LA.

It's either stay with cavs or:

1. Philly
2. Houston
3. Lakers

imo.

TrueFan420
05-22-2018, 09:47 PM
Iím sure he will make his decesion quickly as he hates all the attention


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol this had me dying

KG2TB
05-22-2018, 10:39 PM
Lakers. Magic Johnson is there. Itís LA. Storied franchise that hasnít been on top for a while. If he brings a title there it would be huge and he might trust Magic to get the pieces there. A lot of players would want to play in LA with LeBron and Magic running the show. Iíd be pretty surprised if he stayed in Cleveland. Theyíre a mess and are a horribly run franchise. He is that franchise and without him they probably donít even make the playoffs in the East.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 10:44 PM
Lebronís staying in the East. I donít see him playing in LA. He doesnít want to be compared to Kobe Bryant. He wants to be thought of as greater. Heíll come to New York and win a title with the Knicks he becomes a legend. Going to LA is nice but going to NYC is a whole nother animal.

Jeffy25
05-22-2018, 10:49 PM
I can't see him going to a non-playoff team unless he was teaming up with George

KG2TB
05-22-2018, 10:52 PM
Lebronís staying in the East. I donít see him playing in LA. He doesnít want to be compared to Kobe Bryant. He wants to be thought of as greater. Heíll come to New York and win a title with the Knicks he becomes a legend. Going to LA is nice but going to NYC is a whole nother animal.

Lol heís already better than Kobe. I donít think that weighs in his decision. The Knicks have been a train wreck for over a decade. Heís not going there.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 11:45 PM
Lol heís already better than Kobe. I donít think that weighs in his decision. The Knicks have been a train wreck for over a decade. Heís not going there.

In terms of rings. Heís 2 behind Kobe and 3 behind Jordan. Heíll go to the market and team that gives him the best chance to match/surpass the aforementioned names. Think before you post lousy content. Lebron and Porzingis can turn the Knicks around. You just sound foolish.

MJNetsIsles
05-22-2018, 11:52 PM
You guys are also just jealous that youíre not from NY and the best player in the world has a chance to play in the best city in the world at the best basketball arena in the world. Iím jealous too being a Brooklyn Nets fan but I love Lebron and welcome him to NYC with open arms. A winning player in a winning city, the greatest city in the world (54 sports banner seasons for NY, the most all time.) itís a match made in heaven. King James.

FlashBolt
05-23-2018, 12:29 AM
In terms of rings. Heís 2 behind Kobe and 3 behind Jordan. Heíll go to the market and team that gives him the best chance to match/surpass the aforementioned names. Think before you post lousy content. Lebron and Porzingis can turn the Knicks around. You just sound foolish.

Lol. Porzingis has not improved as an NBA player the past year. With the amount of new talent coming in, KP is not one LeBron can trust right now to be his 2nd option. And regardless of the rings situation, he's past Kobe and has been for years.


You guys are also just jealous that youíre not from NY and the best player in the world has a chance to play in the best city in the world at the best basketball arena in the world. Iím jealous too being a Brooklyn Nets fan but I love Lebron and welcome him to NYC with open arms. A winning player in a winning city, the greatest city in the world (54 sports banner seasons for NY, the most all time.) itís a match made in heaven. King James.

I live in NY and I'd love for LeBron to come to the Knicks but there is zero chance. Knicks need to unload some salary and grab some cap space.

JordansBulls
05-23-2018, 12:46 AM
Coward part II.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:05 AM
Iím sure he will make his decesion quickly as he hates all the attention


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:06 AM
He already has all of that in LA.

It's either stay with cavs or:

1. Philly
2. Houston
3. Lakers

imo.

This, Iím hoping Philly though.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:07 AM
In terms of rings. Heís 2 behind Kobe and 3 behind Jordan. Heíll go to the market and team that gives him the best chance to match/surpass the aforementioned names. Think before you post lousy content. Lebron and Porzingis can turn the Knicks around. You just sound foolish.

He doesnít want to turn anything around. He wants to win it all in dominating fashion.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:10 AM
You guys are also just jealous that youíre not from NY and the best player in the world has a chance to play in the best city in the world at the best basketball arena in the world. Iím jealous too being a Brooklyn Nets fan but I love Lebron and welcome him to NYC with open arms. A winning player in a winning city, the greatest city in the world (54 sports banner seasons for NY, the most all time.) itís a match made in heaven. King James.

NY is an amazing city to visit. I could not live in that sess pool. Iíll visit and party it up, but I canít live in a night club either.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:12 AM
Coward part II.

No that was Jordan when he quit the second time.

redsox12
05-23-2018, 01:46 AM
Houston or Cleveland

Houston to team up with his friend Paul or to stay and Cleveland and stay GM. It's entirely possible to get Paul George to CLE if they trade Love. They could send Love to OKC and place George with LeBron.

kyubi256
05-23-2018, 01:48 AM
I think he goes to Houston if they lose to GS. If they win then he will go to Philly.

basketfan4life
05-23-2018, 06:32 AM
I think he goes to Houston if they lose to GS. If they win then he will go to Philly.

I think there is a truth to this. If hou and cle meet in finals, there is zero chance to lbj to go to the rockets.

Win: why go to a team you just dethroned.
Lose: Coward situation, we all know how that went with Durant.

Tg11
05-23-2018, 07:35 AM
LeBron I can't see him pulling a KD and going to a team that beats him...and LeBron is staying in the East period. Why go to a conference, the West where you probably won't make it to the Finals every year? Whereas if he stays in the East he has a clear path to the Finals every year. Plus the East is the weaker conference whereas the West is the more stronger conference. Not to mention he would run the risk of running into Steph and the crew in the playoffs early whether it be 2nd round or WCF if he were to go out West whereas if he stays in the East he would run into them in the Finals.

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 08:58 AM
Read the OPs post regarding New York. Thatís exactly why he would come here.

you keep saying NY but you mean the nets, right?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-23-2018, 09:12 AM
No way LeBron would ever go to Toronto...he would honestly not be caught dead in a Raptors jersey much less playing for a team that he continues to dominate and beat up on. If LeBron ever did jump ship to Toronto they would be instant favorites to win it all but that is even a far stretch.

LeBron believe it or not I could even see him going to Milwaukee to join forces with Giannis, Middleton, Parker, Maker, etc.

LeBron as a Buck makes the most sense

Bucks have no capspace. Also Parker is a RFA. But his stock is low now. Also doubt Cavs accepts a sign and trade of LeBron to Milwaukee either.

Htownballa1622
05-23-2018, 10:32 AM
;)

smith&wesson
05-23-2018, 11:29 AM
Shoot he could join Boston if he really wanted to

Irving - Rozier
Hayward - Smart
Lebron - Tatum
Morris - Brown
Horford - Baynes

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 11:44 AM
Philly makes the most sense. Embiid and Simmons will each be much better than last year. But because they got smoked, Bron can lead what will be a better team to the finals. If they can add PG13 or Leonard then they can smash

Vinylman
05-23-2018, 11:45 AM
LeBron going to New York makes the most sense financially think about it. New York is just as big a market as Los Angeles is. New York is a city filled with bright lights and stars just like LA. Not to mention New York has much more opportunities for LeBron business wise as far as expanding his global empire and not to mention New York is just as rich a city as Los Angeles is

So many private schools his children could go to in the New York area. Not to mention his wife I think she would probably like living out in New York more than she would LA.

Not to mention the Fizdale connection as well. Think about the amount of revenue LeBron could garner by becoming a Knick. Ticket sales at all time high and the amount of big name guys you could attract too to come to New York as well.

not to mention...

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 11:57 AM
Shoot he could join Boston if he really wanted to

Irving - Rozier
Hayward - Smart
Lebron - Tatum
Morris - Brown
Horford - Baynes

how do you supposed they pay all those players?

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 11:59 AM
Philly makes the most sense. Embiid and Simmons will each be much better than last year. But because they got smoked, Bron can lead what will be a better team to the finals. If they can add PG13 or Leonard then they can smash

no. stop.

BDawk4Prez
05-23-2018, 12:01 PM
I think he stays in Cleveland. His legacy would be hurt much more if he joined a super team and lost to GSW than if he won

Being too scared to go out West is what will hurt his legacy more than anything.

Vinylman
05-23-2018, 12:01 PM
Houston or Cleveland

Houston to team up with his friend Paul or to stay and Cleveland and stay GM. It's entirely possible to get Paul George to CLE if they trade Love. They could send Love to OKC and place George with LeBron.

Cleveland could get George to opt in and trade JR/Hill and the 8th pick to OKC for George and Roberson

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 12:06 PM
Being too scared to go out West is what will hurt his legacy more than anything.

thats not gonna have any impact. you dont have to play in the west to be an all time great.

BDawk4Prez
05-23-2018, 12:09 PM
thats not gonna have any impact. you dont have to play in the west to be an all time great.

No, but he knows he can't get a cake walk to the finals each year if he does.

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 12:13 PM
sure but that doesnt mean much or make him scared. im the last person to back up Jams for anything too.

AntiG
05-23-2018, 01:02 PM
how do you supposed they pay all those players?

only Smart and Baynes are FA, and Boston has Bird rights to Smart. Baynes can be signed to the Bi-annual, and James who in this scenario would be valuing multiple championships for the most legendary NBA franchise over money, especially since he's worth something like half a billion already, takes the MLE. :D

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:06 PM
no. stop.

Itís happening. Get ready for team success.

R. Johnson#3
05-23-2018, 01:19 PM
You guys are also just jealous that youíre not from NY and the best player in the world has a chance to play in the best city in the world at the best basketball arena in the world. Iím jealous too being a Brooklyn Nets fan but I love Lebron and welcome him to NYC with open arms. A winning player in a winning city, the greatest city in the world (54 sports banner seasons for NY, the most all time.) itís a match made in heaven. King James.

Winning city? New York? Hahahahaha

Thatís like me saying the Maple Leafs are a winning team because of all their cups from 50+ years ago.

Iím sure Lebron is salivating at the opportunity to revive Joakim Noahís career and to talk to Proz while he recovers from surgery for a year. Iíd honestly give the Suns a better shot at landing Lebron than the Knicks.

MarkieMark48
05-23-2018, 01:20 PM
only Smart and Baynes are FA, and Boston has Bird rights to Smart. Baynes can be signed to the Bi-annual, and James who in this scenario would be valuing multiple championships for the most legendary NBA franchise over money, especially since he's worth something like half a billion already, takes the MLE. :D

I understand close to nothing about the NBA salary cap. As soon as I think I understand it, someone tells me about a clause of an exemption of a rule that allows a team to go 3 billion over the cap in a season if a team plays more than 6 games when the temperature is below 0 degrees outside.

I feel like Danny Ainge could work some type of magic to land Lebron.

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 01:23 PM
Itís happening. Get ready for team success.

no its not.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 01:45 PM
no its not.

Yes it is

AntiG
05-23-2018, 01:45 PM
I understand close to nothing about the NBA salary cap. As soon as I think I understand it, someone tells me about a clause of an exemption of a rule that allows a team to go 3 billion over the cap in a season if a team plays more than 6 games when the temperature is below 0 degrees outside.

I feel like Danny Ainge could work some type of magic to land Lebron.

well I was being facetious, but it could potentially happen (the Lebron MLE part) if Lebron decided that he made enough money in his career and just wanted to win and go head to head with Durant in the process in the Finals annually. The MLE allows a team over the cap to sign a player for 8.4M or 5.2M depending on whether the team is over the tax apron. Bi-Annual is for 3.45M if the team is over the cap but under the tax apron and did not use it the previous year, which the Celtics did not since they were under the cap going into 2017.

MJNetsIsles
05-23-2018, 02:14 PM
you keep saying NY but you mean the nets, right?

No I clearly mean the Knicks.
If I meant the Nets Iíd say Brooklyn.

MarkieMark48
05-23-2018, 02:27 PM
well I was being facetious, but it could potentially happen (the Lebron MLE part) if Lebron decided that he made enough money in his career and just wanted to win and go head to head with Durant in the process in the Finals annually. The MLE allows a team over the cap to sign a player for 8.4M or 5.2M depending on whether the team is over the tax apron. Bi-Annual is for 3.45M if the team is over the cap but under the tax apron and did not use it the previous year, which the Celtics did not since they were under the cap going into 2017.

Lebron will get his max dollars, maybe he would come off a few mil in order to make himself work for a certain team. I don't know what the C's cap is like, and who gets paid what, but there is no way youd be able to keep the same basic team and just add Lebron. Some pieces would have to go, but I think Ainge could make it happen if he wanted, dude is a genius.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 02:40 PM
So

Thereís your answer

ewing
05-23-2018, 02:47 PM
Thereís your answer


I'm going to have to move you below Flashbolt, though I have always suspected you are the same person

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 02:49 PM
Drob
MVP
Quad Double
71pts
DPOY

Played on dirt teams his entire prime because like Bron his impact was so huge, he could get any team 50 wins.

Prime David is 2nd best player in the league today. Replace any GS player with him and they are better.

FlashBolt
05-23-2018, 02:58 PM
Yea cause Rodman is such a credible source :laugh2:

It's no secret he wasn't on the best of terms with the Spurs, hence him getting dealt for Will Perdue. You really think a guy like him wouldn't say some outlandish **** after the fact? I mean, you don't have to do a ton of research to hear some of the things he's said that are a bit head scratch worthy.

Avery Johnson said the exact same thing. David Robinson asked him for help and Avery Johnson told him to basically suck it up and play. And you're using a fallacy here. Because someone says controversial things constantly does not mean they aren't spitting the truth in another case.

AntiG
05-23-2018, 02:59 PM
^ hence why I was being facetious

FlashBolt
05-23-2018, 02:59 PM
Drob
MVP
Quad Double
71pts
DPOY

Played on dirt teams his entire prime because like Bron his impact was so huge, he could get any team 50 wins.

Prime David is 2nd best player in the league today. Replace any GS player with him and they are better.

Lmao. Sure he is. Can you give me his memorable playoff games?

IndyRealist
05-23-2018, 03:09 PM
A 59 win team with 82 games of Robinson was a 20 win team without him. Yes not all of that was him, but the majority was. That's the kind of impact only hall of famers have. Where he ranks all time is debateable, but the fact that he is an all time great is not.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 03:30 PM
I'm going to have to move you below Flashbolt, though I have always suspected you are the same person

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂...wow

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 03:39 PM
Lmao. Sure he is. Can you give me his memorable playoff games?

1991 G1 vs GS warriors

9/10 30pts/14reb/8blks

That stat line prob wouldnít help anyone though huh?

De what you wouldnít know flash since u watched none of Prime Drob, is that he had a diff coach every year, and most of them were terrible. He was also sourrounded by trash. How do you only get your center 10 shots when he is this dominant=answer, horrible coaching, no one can even inbound him the ball. His career was this. But you wouldnít know because you never watched him. You only talk like you do which is very very sad.

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 03:43 PM
A 59 win team with 82 games of Robinson was a 20 win team without him. Yes not all of that was him, but the majority was. That's the kind of impact only hall of famers have. Where he ranks all time is debateable, but the fact that he is an all time great is not.

This man knows wtf he is talking about.

IndyRealist
05-23-2018, 03:57 PM
This man knows wtf he is talking about.

PER is trash :-P

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 04:53 PM
PER is trash :-P

I have to agree

Leftcoast_yg
05-23-2018, 05:14 PM
Isnt this part 3 or 4 lmao

kdspurman
05-23-2018, 05:26 PM
Avery Johnson said the exact same thing. David Robinson asked him for help and Avery Johnson told him to basically suck it up and play. And you're using a fallacy here. Because someone says controversial things constantly does not mean they aren't spitting the truth in another case.

Where did Avery say "he was shaking at the thought of Hakeem"? Or where did he say D-Rob asked for help and to suck it up? The only thing I've seen on this is, again, Rodman saying Avery said something in the locker room. I'm curious where he said the exact same thing. If you've got a link/quote I'd love to see it

And you're absolutely right, it doesn't mean that he isn't spitting the truth. But to sit here and just take his word for it, when no one else has said anything like that is pretty silly. Especially when you consider he left there on really bad terms. Context is important... You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from him for arguments sake, as I'm sure he's said some things you probably laugh at and dismiss

MJNetsIsles
05-23-2018, 05:49 PM
If Lebron came to Brooklyn, NY he could instantly transform the Nets into a Playoff contender. (I know this wonít happen but...)

PG: Spencer Dinwiddie/Jeremy Lin
SG: DíAngelo Russell/Caris LeVert/Allen Crabbe
SF: Lebron James/DeMarre Carroll
PF: Rondae Hollis Jefferson/Jahlil Okafor
C: Jarrett Allen/Timofey Mozgov

IKnowHoops
05-23-2018, 05:56 PM
Where did Avery say "he was shaking at the thought of Hakeem"? Or where did he say D-Rob asked for help and to suck it up? The only thing I've seen on this is, again, Rodman saying Avery said something in the locker room. I'm curious where he said the exact same thing. If you've got a link/quote I'd love to see it

And you're absolutely right, it doesn't mean that he isn't spitting the truth. But to sit here and just take his word for it, when no one else has said anything like that is pretty silly. Especially when you consider he left there on really bad terms. Context is important... You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from him for arguments sake, as I'm sure he's said some things you probably laugh at and dismiss

Even if this was true, Rudy tomjonavich was hard doubling David the entire series which was smart so Hakeem wouldnít get into foul trouble. One coach was helping his guy, while another coach was like ďDavid go out there one on one every play and win the battleĒ. It was pure trash coaching

Tg11
05-23-2018, 06:17 PM
LeBron is not going out West anyway he will stay in the East like what don't people get by that? LeBron will stay in the easier conference because in the East it is a clear path; a cakewalk to the Finals every year vs going out West where it is harder to get to the Finals. LeBron is a lot of things but stupid is not one of them. He is a thinking man's basketball player. By that it means he is going to weigh his options but he will ultimately stay in a situation where he is afforded the best chance to win and that is in the East.

kdspurman
05-23-2018, 06:24 PM
Even if this was true, Rudy tomjonavich was hard doubling David the entire series which was smart so Hakeem wouldnít get into foul trouble. One coach was helping his guy, while another coach was like ďDavid go out there one on one every play and win the battleĒ. It was pure trash coaching

No doubt.. But I'm just calling out some stuff Flash is spitting as facts which seems to be nothing but Rodman talking junk and using it to somehow downplay how good Robinson was.

People should check out what his team did in some of those games vs that series. Dream played great that series. But he also had several guys step up and play well.

Hill definitely didn't put them in positions to succeed that series

lakerfan85
05-23-2018, 08:46 PM
Wouldnít this be the decision part 3?

Chronz
05-23-2018, 09:09 PM
LeBron is not going out West anyway he will stay in the East like what don't people get by that? LeBron will stay in the easier conference because in the East it is a clear path; a cakewalk to the Finals every year vs going out West where it is harder to get to the Finals. LeBron is a lot of things but stupid is not one of them. He is a thinking man's basketball player. By that it means he is going to weigh his options but he will ultimately stay in a situation where he is afforded the best chance to win and that is in the East.
I don't think he cares about finals births, I think he'll join the team with the better chance to actually win

TrueFan420
05-23-2018, 09:55 PM
Wouldnít this be the decision part 3?

Correct

Bostonjorge
05-23-2018, 11:24 PM
I don't think he cares about finals births, I think he'll join the team with the better chance to actually win

Exactly. This era is no beef in teaming up when your forming a underdog super team.

Basketball fans from all over will ride with James to see someone finally take down GS.

No disrespect to Houston whoís balling right now.

D Blue987
05-24-2018, 12:03 AM
LeBron is not going out West anyway he will stay in the East like what don't people get by that? LeBron will stay in the easier conference because in the East it is a clear path; a cakewalk to the Finals every year vs going out West where it is harder to get to the Finals. LeBron is a lot of things but stupid is not one of them. He is a thinking man's basketball player. By that it means he is going to weigh his options but he will ultimately stay in a situation where he is afforded the best chance to win and that is in the East.

Signing with any team in the East outside of Boston (which is inconceivable given the Kyrie drama) is basically a concession to not winning another championship in his career. Seriously, the guy is 3-5 in the finals. Find it hard to believe that anyone thinks that, just because he will have a cake walk staying in the East just to lose in the finals, that would make it more attractive than going out west. Lakers or Houston are viable destinations for him and I believe are his most likely choices. LA will need to make a couple moves for other stars to secure him but they have that flexibility. Houston will need to work out a sign and trade but I can only see them making that move if they get bounced by the Warriors.

TheDish87
05-24-2018, 08:41 AM
If Lebron came to Brooklyn, NY he could instantly transform the Nets into a Playoff contender. (I know this wonít happen but...)

PG: Spencer Dinwiddie/Jeremy Lin
SG: DíAngelo Russell/Caris LeVert/Allen Crabbe
SF: Lebron James/DeMarre Carroll
PF: Rondae Hollis Jefferson/Jahlil Okafor
C: Jarrett Allen/Timofey Mozgov

lol even Lebron doesnt make that team a finals contender

Lil Rhody
05-24-2018, 11:16 AM
Boom!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180524/b038d5c303c2cef9c412e618030edb38.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Jamiecballer
05-24-2018, 11:41 AM
Iím sure he will make his decesion quickly as he hates all the attention


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSounds a lot like you then. You dont inject one line jokes into every single thread or anything [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

ODB13
05-24-2018, 12:12 PM
Not a chance in hell he has the stones to go out west. He might actually have to try during the regular season.

D-Leethal
05-24-2018, 12:26 PM
I don't think he cares about finals births, I think he'll join the team with the better chance to actually win

I do think he wanted to avoid the Western gauntlet for the last 7-8 years, but it's not as deep as it used to be. It's better to get to the Finals in a cakewalk than it is to face championship caliber teams in the second round. I don't think that is really necessary anymore though. The West isn't as deep and the East has scary young teams at the top now too.

WestCoastSportz
05-24-2018, 12:46 PM
I don't see him coming out West either unless he joins the Rockets or the Warriors and thats not going to happen. He'll know that he won't be playing for a Championship in the West. In the East, he's a lock to be in the conference finals every year, but there aren't many teams that would be able to afford him in a straight up signing. Philadelphia is one and Chicago is another who both have over $30M in cap space to spend. I don't see a team like Philly wanting Lebron. I can't see Lebron on any other team but the Cavs because Lue was a coach that he basically hand picked. He lets Lebron run the plays and the team. Lebron isn't going to get that kind of freedom anywhere else. Remember that he has already had Blatt and Brown fired and also tried to have Spoelstra fired right when he goto to South Beach.

MarkieMark48
05-24-2018, 01:25 PM
Boom!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180524/b038d5c303c2cef9c412e618030edb38.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I think this is a real possibility

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-24-2018, 02:30 PM
If I had to rank the 5 most likely destinations:

1) Cleveland - I have to think making it work with Cleveland is still priority #1. It's his hometown and I think he knows it wouldn't be great for his legacy if he left again. They'd be underdogs to win a championship, maybe even to win the East next year, but I just wonder at this point if Lebron is just content sticking with Cleveland and trying to beat the odds with them. If this scenario happens, I expect a short term deal that will create another summer of Lebron in the near future, thus making this the most likely destination.

2) Houston - Obviously this is contingent upon Houston losing to Golden State this year. If they can't beat Golden State this year, they'll have no choice but to pursue Lebron to put them over the top. It would be tough for Lebron to pass on joining Harden and his good friend CP3 for a chance to actually beat the Warriors and win another championship or two. None of these other scenarios leads to Lebron being the favorite to win a ring.

3) Lakers (with George) - Add Paul George to the mix along with the young talent they already have, and they become one of the top 3 teams in the West over night. It's the big market and the storied franchise he's never played for.

4) Philadelphia - They have a ton of young talent obviously with future draft picks still in their possession. Lebron added to this team instantly makes them favorites to win the East.

5) Knicks - I still think there is value in playing in MSG plus they do have Porzingas so that's not a bad place to build from. Plus he gets to stay in the East away from Houton and Golden State. They'd instantly be contenders if not favorites to win the East.

Honorable mention - An interesting team is New Orleans. I haven't heard any talk about that, but Lebron teaming up with the NBA's best big man is interesting. From a basketball standpoint, it makes a ton of sense.

Tg11
05-24-2018, 02:59 PM
LeBron teaming up with AD, Cousins, Holiday and Rondo in New Orleans...Pelicans would definitely be able to dethrone Golden State especially if you add LeBron into that mix

TheDish87
05-24-2018, 03:50 PM
Cousins wouldnt be back in that case.

Chronz
05-24-2018, 04:48 PM
I do think he wanted to avoid the Western gauntlet for the last 7-8 years, but it's not as deep as it used to be. It's better to get to the Finals in a cakewalk than it is to face championship caliber teams in the second round. I don't think that is really necessary anymore though. The West isn't as deep and the East has scary young teams at the top now too.
Then why have so many stars avoided the east and the few that have come, why have they failed to even make the playoffs in some cases.

The nba is more of a team game than ever before, bron would love an eastern team run as well as their western counterparts but it's never worth it if you're just getting shellacked bythe west

AntiG
05-24-2018, 04:50 PM
^ well there's only one eastern team that is, but he'd have to take the MLE to do it.

Chronz
05-24-2018, 04:51 PM
If I had to rank the 5 most likely destinations:

1) Cleveland - I have to think making it work with Cleveland is still priority #1. It's his hometown and I think he knows it wouldn't be great for his legacy if he left again. They'd be underdogs to win a championship, maybe even to win the East next year, but I just wonder at this point if Lebron is just content sticking with Cleveland and trying to beat the odds with them. If this scenario happens, I expect a short term deal that will create another summer of Lebron in the near future, thus making this the most likely destination.

2) Houston - Obviously this is contingent upon Houston losing to Golden State this year. If they can't beat Golden State this year, they'll have no choice but to pursue Lebron to put them over the top. It would be tough for Lebron to pass on joining Harden and his good friend CP3 for a chance to actually beat the Warriors and win another championship or two. None of these other scenarios leads to Lebron being the favorite to win a ring.

3) Lakers (with George) - Add Paul George to the mix along with the young talent they already have, and they become one of the top 3 teams in the West over night. It's the big market and the storied franchise he's never played for.

4) Philadelphia - They have a ton of young talent obviously with future draft picks still in their possession. Lebron added to this team instantly makes them favorites to win the East.

5) Knicks - I still think there is value in playing in MSG plus they do have Porzingas so that's not a bad place to build from. Plus he gets to stay in the East away from Houton and Golden State. They'd instantly be contenders if not favorites to win the East.

Honorable mention - An interesting team is New Orleans. I haven't heard any talk about that, but Lebron teaming up with the NBA's best big man is interesting. From a basketball standpoint, it makes a ton of sense.
He's given the home town a decade. Nobody outside of lunatics give a **** if he leaves such a poorly managed team.

Knicks have no shot. They should've rebuilt properly ever since they chased bron after year 3

Chronz
05-24-2018, 04:51 PM
^ well there's only one eastern team that is, but he'd have to take the MLE to do it.
They'd have to trade kyrie for sure.

AntiG
05-24-2018, 05:09 PM
They'd have to trade kyrie for sure.

possibly, or they would just figure out a way to coexist lol

if Lebron comes to Boston, it would mean that he's willing to be part of the crew as opposed to his old dynamic of him + sidekicks.

bklynny67
05-24-2018, 05:11 PM
He's not going to NY. It actually doesn't make sense for him because everyone knows all he cares about is joining other elite players and trying to make it as easy as possible to make the finals and win it.

The Knicks suck and are a terrible organization. He would only have an injured KP coming off major surgery. They still wouldn't have a great chance of winning a title if he went there.

bklynny67
05-24-2018, 05:22 PM
He won't go to the West cuz then he has to beat GS and HOU just to get to the finals. Much tougher road.

He always goes for the easiest path, and that's definitely not the Knicks.

IKnowHoops
05-25-2018, 05:34 PM
Philly

ewing
05-26-2018, 12:54 AM
I think he stays


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Jewelz0376
05-26-2018, 01:30 AM
I donít agree with Lebron wonít go to the west sentiment at all...

1) If he joins the rockets, no, lakers (with pg13), spurs (w/ pop and Leonard) he will probably think his addition makes them unstoppable and they will steam roll anyone including the Warriors.

2) Even if Lebron does feel like it will be harder to get to the finals in the West, itís better for him to not make the finals then get there and lose. For example look at Jordan. Part of his mystique is going 6-0 in the finals. When he came back from retirement imagine if they made the finals instead of losing to the magic and lost to the Rockets. That 6-0 would maybe be 6-1 instead.

IKnowHoops
05-26-2018, 02:53 AM
Philly

bklynny67
05-26-2018, 07:38 AM
Philly
The more you say it, the more likely it becomes 😕

IKnowHoops
05-26-2018, 09:04 AM
The more you say it, the more likely it becomes 😕

Philly then

ewing
05-26-2018, 09:13 AM
we know he isn't going to Philly

FlashBolt
05-26-2018, 12:00 PM
East won't be a cakewalk next season. Boston is NO joke and will be a top 5 NBA team at the least. Throw away the Houston/GSW are above everyone because once Boston gets healthy, they can win the chip.