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View Full Version : NBA All-Time Redraft Playoffs 1st Round (Team Dhop v Monaco Money)



valade16
06-04-2018, 09:21 AM
Every year Members of PSD participate in a draft of all players all-time in an attempt to make the best team possible and win in a playoff determined by fellow members of PSD.

This years rules included being able to only start 2 players from the 00's and 1 from the 70's and earlier.

Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 game series. The top team has home-court advantage for this series.

Team Dhop - Homecourt Advantage

C-Moses Malone/Rudy Gobert
PF-Draymond Green/Al Horford
SF-Kahwi Leonard/Adrain Dantley
SG-Michael Cooper/ Chett Walker
PG-Tiny Archibald/Derrick Rose

v

Monaco Money

NBA 2k rating in parenthesis:
C Bill Walton (95)
PF Charles Barkley (95)
G/F Shane Battier (86)
G/F Chris Mullin (94)
PG Russell Westbrook (94)

F Detlef Schrempf (87)
G Victor Oladipo (88)
F/C Serge Ibaka (86)
G Steve Kerr (81)
C Caldwell Jones (NA)

Rivera
06-04-2018, 10:17 AM
dhop has the D to lock up everyone in this field, im basically ready to give my vote to dhop but ill give Moracco a chance

Quinnsanity
06-04-2018, 11:47 AM
I like Dhop's team more and more every time I see it.

mightybosstone
06-04-2018, 01:52 PM
I love the front court matchups in this series. Moses and Green vs. Walton and Barkley is just fascinating to me. And then the defensive assignments of the guards and wings will be interesting. Do you put Kawhi on Mullin and Cooper on Westbrook and just let Battier shoot open 3s over Archibald all series long?

I think Dhop's team is a little better put together, but his squad can't really take advantage of Monaco's weaknesses because of the issues his team has offensively. If you had a huge threat offensively at the 4 or multiple offensive threats on the wings, you could really use that to your advantage against them. But if this playoffs have taught us anything, it's that you can pretty much leave Draymond wide open from the 3-point line, and he won't be able to punish you for it. And you can hide Mullin defensively on Cooper, who was essentially useless on that end of the floor.

Defensively, Dhop's team is obviously superior, but offensively, I think Monaco has a significant edge. I want to see some debate before voting. It's close to a coin flip series for me.

Lakers + Giants
06-04-2018, 02:00 PM
Barkley vs Green is pretty ****in epic :laugh2:

KnicksorBust
06-04-2018, 06:09 PM
Are we sure dhop's team is that good? Green and Cooper are minuses offensively in an all-time game. Barkley and Mullin can hide on them. Moses will get his and Kawhi will get theirs but will be guarded by great defenders and then they need Tiny to be a strong 3rd option. He is a scorer but I just don't see how that offense flows. I am not as sold as everybody else.

dhopisthename
06-04-2018, 06:20 PM
I hate mile long writeups and I don't think anyone except a certain few really read them, but some points in my favor.


Tiny will be covering battier. Battier, whose career high in his prime is 10.1 ppg. Sure he has a height advantage over tiny, but we aren't talking about a guy who should ever do anything but stand on the 3pt line and shoot the basketball.
This team is built on everyone touching the basketball and playing hard on defense. I have 3 guys who have a dpoy, and Moses even was on some defensive teams. It also has good passing. It starts with tiny and his 10 apg, then cooper and his 5 apg, we have kahwi and his 3 apg, and finishes with Draymond and his 6 apg. Every single player on this team has a ts% over 54% and every single player on my bench brings something unique. when I need scoring I can bring in a guy who nearly averaged 30 on a 63.2 ts% in Adrian Dantley. I also have Derrick Rose who can bring in more offense and explosiveness. When needed I can have 4 dpoys with Rudy Gobert coming in or bring in Al Horford who can stretch a defense. Chett walker brings a little bit of everything.

I feel like my team has a few advantages. One is the bench where I think he is just frankly subpar. I also think that Russel Westbrook is an issue for this team. with great options like Barkley and Walton I think that Westbrook would torpedo them with his career 51.6 ts% and 34.1 career usage percentage in the playoffs. For perspective Lebron this playoffs has a 35.7 usage.

dhopisthename
06-04-2018, 06:36 PM
I love the front court matchups in this series. Moses and Green vs. Walton and Barkley is just fascinating to me. And then the defensive assignments of the guards and wings will be interesting. Do you put Kawhi on Mullin and Cooper on Westbrook and just let Battier shoot open 3s over Archibald all series long?

I think Dhop's team is a little better put together, but his squad can't really take advantage of Monaco's weaknesses because of the issues his team has offensively. If you had a huge threat offensively at the 4 or multiple offensive threats on the wings, you could really use that to your advantage against them. But if this playoffs have taught us anything, it's that you can pretty much leave Draymond wide open from the 3-point line, and he won't be able to punish you for it. And you can hide Mullin defensively on Cooper, who was essentially useless on that end of the floor.

Defensively, Dhop's team is obviously superior, but offensively, I think Monaco has a significant edge. I want to see some debate before voting. It's close to a coin flip series for me.

he isn't hitting his 3's this year, but last year he shot 41% from 3 on more attempts and 36% the year before on even more attempts. sure he isn't curry, but you can't leave a guy open who shoots 34% from 3. plus he is a tremendous passer.

you know thats not how basketball works. you set screens for guys who open things up by getting the matchups you want. Yes I know that Tiny by the same logic is going to have to cover other guys, but I have 4 plus defenders. He has 2. Also, Cooper averaged 5 assists per game and shot 36% from 3 in a time people weren't regularly shooting the 3. you can't talk about how great battier would be on offense and dis cooper like that.

murphturph
06-04-2018, 06:44 PM
Dhop

dhopisthename
06-04-2018, 06:53 PM
Are we sure dhop's team is that good? Green and Cooper are minuses offensively in an all-time game. Barkley and Mullin can hide on them. Moses will get his and Kawhi will get theirs but will be guarded by great defenders and then they need Tiny to be a strong 3rd option. He is a scorer but I just don't see how that offense flows. I am not as sold as everybody else.

Yes because my defense is incredibly good and you don't need 5 guys who score on the floor at once. Plus those minuses are both great passers and capable shooters. Is Tiny everyone's favorite 3rd option? no, but we are talking about a guy who put up 28/10 over a 3 year prime on a respectable 56%ts especially considering his era. I also have an Dantley coming off my bench. 29 ppg on 63.2 ts%.

ChiSox219
06-04-2018, 08:20 PM
Im just curious who Tiny gonna guard

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2018, 09:05 PM
Shane probably.

ChiSox219
06-04-2018, 10:33 PM
Shane probably.

Ya that's what I'm thinking. I like that Battier is a great screen setter so shouldnt be tough to get mismatches by putting Tiny into screens. If Dhop doesnt switch, you've got Battier rolling to the rim with a 7" height and 70lb advantage over Tiny. I also like the idea of running high post action (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5O1x13cig&t=7s) through Battier with the added benefit of being able to clear out and post Shane on Tiny.

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 11:03 PM
I love Micheal Cooper but he's not guarding Westbrook. Dhop has a great defensive team but gotta agrree with a previous post, lacks the offensive firepower in his starting lineup. His top scorers barely averaged 20ppg, and no noone is believing Tiny is scoring 28ppg on a pissed off motivated Westbrook. Kawhi would probably be his #1 option but he only did that consistently for 1 year... Just think about Tiny Archibald walking it up the court and having Cooper/Kawhi as the wing options...


who wins the rebound battle? Barkley/Walton or Malone/Draymond? I see 3 fantastic rebounders and Draymond.

ChiSox219
06-04-2018, 11:21 PM
I hate mile long writeups and I don't think anyone except a certain few really read them, but some points in my favor.


Tiny will be covering battier. Battier, whose career high in his prime is 10.1 ppg. Sure he has a height advantage over tiny, but we aren't talking about a guy who should ever do anything but stand on the 3pt line and shoot the basketball.
This team is built on everyone touching the basketball and playing hard on defense. I have 3 guys who have a dpoy, and Moses even was on some defensive teams. It also has good passing. It starts with tiny and his 10 apg, then cooper and his 5 apg, we have kahwi and his 3 apg, and finishes with Draymond and his 6 apg. Every single player on this team has a ts% over 54% and every single player on my bench brings something unique. when I need scoring I can bring in a guy who nearly averaged 30 on a 63.2 ts% in Adrian Dantley. I also have Derrick Rose who can bring in more offense and explosiveness. When needed I can have 4 dpoys with Rudy Gobert coming in or bring in Al Horford who can stretch a defense. Chett walker brings a little bit of everything.

I feel like my team has a few advantages. One is the bench where I think he is just frankly subpar. I also think that Russel Westbrook is an issue for this team. with great options like Barkley and Walton I think that Westbrook would torpedo them with his career 51.6 ts% and 34.1 career usage percentage in the playoffs. For perspective Lebron this playoffs has a 35.7 usage.

Totally missed this post, my bad. I love the Battier/Tiny matchup, if Battier is able to break down the defense thatís such a huge advantage because he doesnt even need to score, only make the right pass once the help comes.

More to come tomorrow

dhopisthename
06-05-2018, 12:15 AM
I love Micheal Cooper but he's not guarding Westbrook. Dhop has a great defensive team but gotta agrree with a previous post, lacks the offensive firepower in his starting lineup. His top scorers barely averaged 20ppg, and no noone is believing Tiny is scoring 28ppg on a pissed off motivated Westbrook. Kawhi would probably be his #1 option but he only did that consistently for 1 year... Just think about Tiny Archibald walking it up the court and having Cooper/Kawhi as the wing options...


who wins the rebound battle? Barkley/Walton or Malone/Draymond? I see 3 fantastic rebounders and Draymond.
you really think a dpoy who made 8 all defensive teams can't cover westbrook?

you do realize that moses averaged 31 ppg one year right and his 3 year peak is 28 ppg.

you mean like a rookie averaging 28 ppg on westbrook or ricky rubio dropping 20 points on him twice or westbrook getting 4 fouls in a half as a mad and motivated defender and losing his team a game?

Mile High Champ
06-05-2018, 11:15 AM
Mullin is incredibly underrated by younger generations and I love his game opposite Wesbtrbook. Have some concerns about the scoring ability of DHop but that defense is capable of locking down anyone. This is a bad match up for the number one seed and would take them to lose this one.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 01:38 PM
Tiny has nobody to guard. I don't think they'll have much problem forcing switches given how small Tiny is and how unable to fight through screens he is. Which to me limits how useful Cooper and Leonard's defense will be. Dhop has so much firepower on his bench, its a shame he can't use it more at pg.

Between Cooper and Green its pretty obvious where Dhop's offense will need to go, right into the best defenders money has.


Barkley's production on Draymond vs Moses' production on Walton is probably the most fun set of match ups to contemplate lol. I do think Walton will be able to make up more of a difference than Draymond will, simply because Walton is just better overall.

Tough call.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 10:05 PM
you really think a dpoy who made 8 all defensive teams can't cover westbrook?


I think it's a valid concern. Not only does Westbrook have 30 lbs on Cooper but the difference in explosiveness is huge. Westbrook had no problem scoring against 9 time all-defensive Chris Paul in their playoff series and CP3 has a whole 5 lbs on Cooper.



you do realize that moses averaged 31 ppg one year right and his 3 year peak is 28 ppg.


That one year Moses scored 31ppg he also averaged an eye popping 7 offensive rebounds a game. He's not going to have as many of those opportunities against Walton with Barkley cheating off Draymond. Moses' playoff TS% was a rather average .547, not what you want from your primary scoring option.



you mean like a rookie averaging 28 ppg on westbrook or ricky rubio dropping 20 points on him twice or westbrook getting 4 fouls in a half as a mad and motivated defender and losing his team a game?


This is a lighter load for Westbrook and a better fit than the roster currently around him in real life. Having a dominant vocal figure like Chuck combined with easy going, unselfish, high iq players like Battier, Mullin, and Walton would do wonders for Westbrook. If we want to talk about guys getting mad and losing their team games, can I assume Draymond will be suspended for game 5? Cuz Barkely is going to be in his head way worse than Lebron ever was.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 10:07 PM
Mullin is incredibly underrated by younger generations and I love his game opposite Wesbtrbook. Have some concerns about the scoring ability of DHop but that defense is capable of locking down anyone. This is a bad match up for the number one seed and would take them to lose this one.

Amen brother, Mullin averaged 25ppg or better 5 consecutive years and was the 4th leading scorer on the Dream Team. There's a reason he needs to be guarded by Kawhi.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 10:33 PM
Are we sure dhop's team is that good? Green and Cooper are minuses offensively in an all-time game. Barkley and Mullin can hide on them. Moses will get his and Kawhi will get theirs but will be guarded by great defenders and then they need Tiny to be a strong 3rd option. He is a scorer but I just don't see how that offense flows. I am not as sold as everybody else.

I'm not so sure Kawhi will get his, at least efficiently. Here's the Battier vs Kobe head to head matchups (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Shane+Battier&player_id1_select=Shane+Battier&player_id1=battish01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kobe+Bryant&player_id2_select=Kobe+Bryant&player_id2=bryanko01&idx=players), take note of how many times Kobe was held below 40% from the field. During their 7 game playoff battle, Kobe was held to a .535 TS%. While Kawhi has more length than Kobe, he doesn't have Kobe's arsenal or athletic ability so I like Battier to contain him for most of the series and outright shut Kawhi down a couple games.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 10:44 PM
It also has good passing. It starts with tiny and his 10 apg, then cooper and his 5 apg, we have kahwi and his 3 apg, and finishes with Draymond and his 6 apg.

Big fan of passing myself, my team is Westbrook 10 apg, Mullin 5 apg, Barkley 5apg, Walton 5apg and then you have Battier who never posted huge assist totals but anyone that saw him play knows he made the right passes and was a hockey assist master.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 11:07 PM
.

I feel like my team has a few advantages. One is the bench where I think he is just frankly subpar.

Glad you mentioned the bench. As we are required to play our starters a minimum of 30 minutes and all 5 of my starters have proven capable of playing 40mpg or more in the playoffs, I specifically drafted my bench to fill complementary roles. Minutes will be staggered among the starters so Westbrook can get stretches where we want him to dominate the ball so i can rest Barkley and Walton and run a lineup with 4 shooters around Westbrook. Steve Kerr gets to play this series with the ability to guard Cooper. Caldwell Jones is an old school 1st team all-defense center to help bang with Moses. Big athletic PGs like DRose are who I had in mind when I drafted Oladipo to come off the bench and slow the ball at the point of attack while emulated Westbrook's role on the offensive end. Just remember there is no need for my bench to play heavy minutes, 50-60 minutes a night tops.

Westbrook and shooters:

PG Westbrook
SG Mullin/Kerr
SF Battier
PF Schrempf
C Serge Ibaka

dhopisthename
06-05-2018, 11:09 PM
I think it's a valid concern. Not only does Westbrook have 30 lbs on Cooper but the difference in explosiveness is huge. Westbrook had no problem scoring against 9 time all-defensive Chris Paul in their playoff series and CP3 has a whole 5 lbs on Cooper.

cp3 has held westbrook to 21 ppg 7 apg and 5 rpg on 41% shooting and 28% from 3. I don't buy that a guy who won a dpoy can't slow westbrook down. He won't stop him cause westy is an all time great, but he certainly make him work for his buckets.


That one year Moses scored 31ppg he also averaged an eye popping 7 offensive rebounds a game. He's not going to have as many of those opportunities against Walton with Barkley cheating off Draymond. Moses' playoff TS% was a rather average .547, not what you want from your primary scoring option.

he might not average 7 a game, but we are talking about the greatest offensive rebounder in nba history by offensive rebound %. Russell and wilt don't count since they were too early. its not great, but its better then westbrooks 51.6 ts%



This is a lighter load for Westbrook and a better fit than the roster currently around him in real life. Having a dominant vocal figure like Chuck combined with easy going, unselfish, high iq players like Battier, Mullin, and Walton would do wonders for Westbrook. If we want to talk about guys getting mad and losing their team games, can I assume Draymond will be suspended for game 5? Cuz Barkely is going to be in his head way worse than Lebron ever was.

he has it a little bit easier, but the team he is playing is way better then the Utah Jazz this year. he wouldn't need to put up the eye popping numbers he did last year, but he would still westbrook it up.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 11:29 PM
cp3 has held westbrook to 21 ppg 7 apg and 5 rpg on 41% shooting and 28% from 3. I don't buy that a guy who won a dpoy can't slow westbrook down. He won't stop him cause westy is an all time great, but he certainly make him work for his buckets.

I gotcha, my comment was specifically about RW's playoff series against CP3 where Westbrook averaged 27.8 ppg on a .618 TS%.



he might not average 7 a game, but we are talking about the greatest offensive rebounder in nba history by offensive rebound %. Russell and wilt don't count since they were too early.


Walton would be #1 Alltime for career DREB% if he qualified at 30.2% and that's even including the years his raggedy old *** was playing in Boston. As good as Moses was on the offensive glass, Walton was at least as good on the defensive glass. And now he has Chuck roaming to help out. Btw, Moses is second to Rodman in OREB%.



its not great, but its better then westbrooks 51.6 ts%

Fair but the difference between Westbrook and Moses is im not relying on Westbrook to be a primary scorer, I have three other guys capable of that role. If Moses isn't scoring at a high and efficient volume you are in trouble.



he has it a little bit easier, but the team he is playing is way better then the Utah Jazz this year. he wouldn't need to put up the eye popping numbers he did last year, but he would still westbrook it up.

I have two other MVPs to give the ball to besides Westbrook, and Mullin is a multiple time efficient 25ppg scorer. Westbrook putting pressure on defense helps everyone but we don't need him to score 30 a game. Btw Rubio is all-defensive caliber player, I've said for years. Things will be very easy when we run the Westbrook/Battier pick n roll and Tiny gets switched on RW.

dhopisthename
06-05-2018, 11:30 PM
Glad you mentioned the bench. As we are required to play our starters a minimum of 30 minutes and all 5 of my starters have proven capable of playing 40mpg or more in the playoffs, I specifically drafted my bench to fill complementary roles. Minutes will be staggered among the starters so Westbrook can get stretches where we want him to dominate the ball so i can rest Barkley and Walton and run a lineup with 4 shooters around Westbrook. Steve Kerr gets to play this series with the ability to guard Cooper. Caldwell Jones is an old school 1st team all-defense center to help bang with Moses. Big athletic PGs like DRose are who I had in mind when I drafted Oladipo to come off the bench and slow the ball at the point of attack while emulated Westbrook's role on the offensive end. Just remember there is no need for my bench to play heavy minutes, 50-60 minutes a night tops.

Westbrook and shooters:

PG Westbrook
SG Mullin/Kerr
SF Battier
PF Schrempf
C Serge Ibaka
playing guys 40 minutes is just asking for them tired in an all time game where westbrook is going to be covering tiny and derrick rose, walton will be covering moses, and barkley will be set on million picks.

the second kerr comes in and I get a switch on him and just bury him with kahwi, Tiny, or Dantley. he wouldn't be able to play this series. Oladipo on a 3 year prime is really subpar for all time game. caldwell jones was only good in the aba and the 2nd he went to the NBA showed that he was a below average starter. Ibaka is ok for 12 minutes and Schrempf is a good backup. However, I think my backups are better at every single position.

ChiSox219
06-05-2018, 11:36 PM
playing guys 40 minutes is just asking for them tired in an all time game where westbrook is going to be covering tiny and derrick rose, walton will be covering moses, and barkley will be set on million picks.

the second kerr comes in and I get a switch on him and just bury him with kahwi, Tiny, or Dantley. he wouldn't be able to play this series. Oladipo on a 3 year prime is really subpar for all time game. caldwell jones was only good in the aba and the 2nd he went to the NBA showed that he was a below average starter. Ibaka is ok for 12 minutes and Schrempf is a good backup. However, I think my backups are better at every single position.

Nah some will play 40, Walton will get less. These guys all made deep playoff runs against great teams playing heavy minutes. Small rotations will starters capable of playing most of the game is an advantage.

Kerr doesnt need to play he's not part of the 8 man rotation. If you are going to kill him with switches, imagine what I will do to Tiny for at least 30 minutes a game.

Caldwell was 2 time first team all defense in the nba, so not sure what only good in the aba is about.

Oladipo is fine, there's no written rule as far as I am aware of for 3 year prime, his defense is what I want so if you arguing he wouldnt be productive offensively, that's not an issue.

Not looking for a ton of minutes from Serge 12 feels right, Barkley would be playing 36 minutes if i play Caldwell at all the backup center minutes but I dont mind playing Serge minutes at C vs Gobert

dhopisthename
06-05-2018, 11:57 PM
I gotcha, my comment was specifically about RW's playoff series against CP3 where Westbrook averaged 27.8 ppg on a .618 TS%.

don't care about six game sample sizes espeically since my defense overall would be so far superior to the clippers defense.



Walton would be #1 Alltime for career DREB% if he qualified at 30.2% and that's even including the years his raggedy old *** was playing in Boston. As good as Moses was on the offensive glass, Walton was at least as good on the defensive glass. And now he has Chuck roaming to help out. Btw, Moses is second to Rodman in OREB%.

acutally I looked it up before I said that https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/orb_pct_career_p.html it counts aba so you are correct if you only want nba. unfortunately they didn't play at all or the stats weren't recorded on the years that I picked for peak moses, but if you look at hte stats when Moses played more then 30 minutes its almost 4.5. Don't forget that Moses averaged 10 fta against walton and that includes non prime years.



Fair but the difference between Westbrook and Moses is im not relying on Westbrook to be a primary scorer, I have three other guys capable of that role. If Moses isn't scoring at a high and efficient volume you are in trouble.

Westbrook has never shown that he wouldn't get his shots regardless of team mates. he often shot as much or more then Durant when Durant showed he was the far better scorer.


I have two other MVPs to give the ball to besides Westbrook, and Mullin is a multiple time efficient 25ppg scorer. Westbrook putting pressure on defense helps everyone but we don't need him to score 30 a game. Btw Rubio is all-defensive caliber player, I've said for years. Things will be very easy when we run the Westbrook/Battier pick n roll and Tiny gets switched on RW.

this is a strength vs strength. all your best scorers will have DPOY level defenders on them. Tiny will have to cover westbrook sometimes, just like mullin will have to cover kahwi and Dantley.

dhopisthename
06-06-2018, 12:06 AM
Nah some will play 40, Walton will get less. These guys all made deep playoff runs against great teams playing heavy minutes. Small rotations will starters capable of playing most of the game is an advantage.

Kerr doesnt need to play he's not part of the 8 man rotation. If you are going to kill him with switches, imagine what I will do to Tiny for at least 30 minutes a game.

Caldwell was 2 time first team all defense in the nba, so not sure what only good in the aba is about.

Oladipo is fine, there's no written rule as far as I am aware of for 3 year prime, his defense is what I want so if you arguing he wouldnt be productive offensively, that's not an issue.

Not looking for a ton of minutes from Serge 12 feels right, Barkley would be playing 36 minutes if i play Caldwell at all the backup center minutes but I dont mind playing Serge minutes at C vs Gobert

Tiny is a hall of fame player with good athleticism. Kerr was a backup who wasn't athletic. Huge difference.

if there is no 3 year prime I get kahwi at 25.5 ppg 6 rpg 3.5 apg on a 61% ts%. Tiny's stats get way better as well.

valade16
06-07-2018, 04:24 PM
Team Dhop wins. Congratulations