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valade16
06-04-2018, 09:18 AM
Every year Members of PSD participate in a draft of all players all-time in an attempt to make the best team possible and win in a playoff determined by fellow members of PSD.

This years rules included being able to only start 2 players from the 00's and 1 from the 70's and earlier.

Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 game series. The top team has home-court advantage for this series.

Team Dunkapalooza - Homecourt Advantage

PG: Mookie Blaylock 30 // James Harden 10 // Michael Ray Richardson 8
SG: James Harden 26 // Vince Carter 19 // Michael Ray Richardson 3
SF: Vince Carter 17 // Doug Christie 16 // Clifford 11 // Larry Johnson 4
PF: Bobby Jones 29 // Larry Johnson 13 // Clifford Robinson 6
C: Wilt Chamberlain 41 // Brad Miller 6 // Clifford Robinson 1

v

Nonameland

PG- Mark Price [32] / Rod Strickland [10] Dwyane Wade [6]
SG- Dwyane Wade [32] / Byron Scott [16]
SF- Glen Rice [30] / Latrell Sprewell [18]
PF- Maurice Lucas [32] / Spencer Haywood [8] / Ralph Sampson [8]
C- Patrick Ewing [38] / Ralph Sampson [10]

Rivera
06-04-2018, 10:15 AM
i like dunkapaloozas fire power more but ill give nonameland a chance

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 10:58 AM
watching Harden disappear .. again in the playoffs.... and we're supposed to believe Wade wouldn't go off on him? Ewing would be able to bang with Wilt as he's not a 6'10 C, Wilt loved to dominate in his day. I also love the chemistry on NoNameland, I can't see Harden playing ISO ball with Wilt lmao u/ he's playing the Capela role... sure you can say Wilt is the #1 option but then what? we're taking the ball out of Harden hand which makes him much less effective.

Dunkapolooza
06-04-2018, 02:19 PM
By your analysis g one must wonder how two great players ever played together lol. Maybe that's why you only have one when most teams here have two or three?

Dunkapolooza
06-04-2018, 03:09 PM
Key Match Ups.

It begins with Wilt vs Ewing. Wilt was a better scorer, with a variety of post moves including hooks, fadeaways, finger roles, and he was a physical dunker. In the post, as great a defender as Ewing was, will have his hands full. Here are Wiltís numbers against Nate Thurmond near Wiltís prime 65-67 (23.4 pts 25.27 reb 55fg%) and bill Russell career (29.9 pts 28.2 trb) the best defensive center of his time.

Wilt is bigger. 7í2Ē 275-300lbs. Here are videos where his unequaled strength is described (https://youtu.be/iwvdsi6gLl8) Reportedly benching 500 lbs. Triceps extensions of 170 lbs. Ewing will not be able to push Wilt around. The only person Ewing played near the size of Wilt was Shaq, who had way less stamina and was a less committed defender and rebounder than Wilt. In that match-up Ewing shot .44% from the field.

Using this size Wilt will be able to play stout defense and keep Ewing off the boards. Where Ewing was a subpar rebounder compared to the other great centers Wilt is arguably the best. Ewing has less than half the reb per game as Wilt Peak to peak (24.1 trb vs 11.5 trb). His front court combined does not average as many rebounds as Wilt. Against Bill Russell Wilt recorded 55 rebounds in a single game.

Wilt is a better athlete as well, as amazing as Ewing was, Wilt is quite simply the most athletic 7 footer of all time. Wilt beat HOF running back Jim Brown in a foot race. Heís rumored to have clocked a 4.7 40yrd dash. Wilt notoriously beat all his teammates including Al Attles in a race. Thatís a 170lb guard. (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2e6shs/compilation_of_wilt_chamberlain_stories/)
The video linked above demonstrates his triple jump, high jump, and sprinting speed up the court. Wilt will be quicker up and down the floor, stronger in the post, and heís a better rebounder.

On the other end of the court Wilt can guard Ewing anywhere. Wilt can close out and contest any shot with his length and leaping ability. Heís too strong to be backed down. And Wilt has the stamina and speed to blanket Ewing in transition defensively. Wilt will win that match up in all three phases of the game.

When it comes to rim protection Ewing is an all-time great, to match that Wilt was an awesome shot blocker too. Reportedly recording 26 in one game. He made two defensive first-teams Ewing never made one. Video of his defense. (https://youtu.be/uJGCySdvlPo) Look how clean those all are.

Where Ewing must defend from Vince Carter, Harden, Clifford Robinson, Larry Johnson, and Bobby Jones attacking the rim Wilt has less to worry about in wade and Sprewell. Because Wilt was so quick and long Wilt let shots go up only to block them out of mid-air. Often just catching them. This resulted in a few goaltending calls, but it also resulted in an extraordinarily low foul numbers (1.8 pf in peak). Compared to contemporaries like Russell (2.7 pf) or Thurmond (2.7 pf). Therefore, I believe in their efforts to protect the rim, Wilt is far less likely to be fouled out of the game. Plus, Wilt drew a lot of fouls himself (8.5 fta peak). Along with Harden (10.4 fta). Its more likely he loses his rim protection than I do.

In terms of legacy Wilt was the leader of a title team that beat arguably the greatest team of all time. A feat Ewing couldnít match. Where Ewing never made a defensive All NBA 1st team, Wilt accomplished that feat twice. And there wasn't even an all nba defensive team for most of his career lol. Ewing never finished higher than 4th in MVP voting, Wilt won 4 MVPs. Three in a row. Wilt finished outside the top four in MVP voting twice his entire career. The best Ewing could do in that regard was the worst Wilt ever did. He has two rings vs 0. Overall I expect Wilt to win on every front, athleticism, rebounding, and his defensive impact.

The second most important match up to me is Wade vs Harden. Harden is a better scorer, if slightly. (.610 TS%, 29.5 pts) Heís a better distributer, if slightly (9.1 ast, 43.5 ast%) and heís roughly an equal rebounder (9.9 trb%). Wade (.572 ts%, 27.5 pts, 5.4 trb, 8.6 trb%, 6.3 ast, 33.6 ast%) Numerically his best player and my second-best player are near equal. Wade is a better defender. but overall Hardenís numbers suggest a slight advantage on every front. (.243 ws/48, 9.1 bpm, 24.2 vorp) vs (.225 ws/48, 8.7 bpm, 23.3 vorp). So even if Wade can play better defense on Harden the numbers suggest theyíd end up being near equal. Wade has that championship and amazing playoff run but he didnít have to go through Golden State. I donít think Wade can win that match up consistently as much as Wilt will win against Ewing. Or to make up for the rest of the team.

Vince Carter is a vastly superior athlete to Glen Rice. Which means heíll beat him up and down the court and with blow byes in half-court. While not being an elite defender Carter can at least check Rice all over the floor better than Rice can guard Carter. (Carter: -.6 dbpm, 7.7 dws vs Rice: -2.1 dbpm, 4.3 dws)

Bobby Jones is too fast agile and quick for Maurice to keep up too. If Lucas wants to use his size Bobby Jones is a 9x all defensive first team player. He will not be able to get easy buckets consistently as easily as Bobby will be able to get easy buckets. Be it in transition or cutting or rolling off screens. We know Bobby can finish (.603 ts%) His front court will not be able to keep up with my front courtís athleticism. Rebounding wise, anything bobby gets is gravy since Wilt averaged more rebounds a game than Lucas and Ewing combined.

Overall Strategy.

Transition:

My team will be up and down the floor much faster. Mookie (2.6 stl) and Ray Richardson (2.9 stl) are master pick pockets which will create fast break opportunities for my athletes. Wiltís shot blocking and superior rebounding will create transition too. Bobby Jones (https://youtu.be/0NxCr-3L8J4), Larry Johnson, and Clifford Robinson (https://youtu.be/MfIb1jrH8mU) are too fast for Maurice to keep up with. Plus, Bobby Jones (1.4 blk) , Clifford (1.1 blk ), Wilt, and even Vince Carter (1 blk) can protect the rim from behind on the fast break. Going both ways, I will dominate the transition battle. This should force Spencer Haywood to play more minutes which I think is a less efficient version of my transition players and still wonít give him a chance to keep up.

Half Court:

Ideally, Iíd play at a very high pace to take advantage of Harden and Wiltís offense. But, if I am slowed down or want to slow him down, I believe I have a half court advantage as well. Since Wilt can do better against his bigs than the other way around, I believe I will be able to get more consistent buckets dropping it inside. As far as rim attackers I believe I have more elite options that can blow by and dunk in traffic. (https://youtu.be/-yYgcV0iOmw) (https://youtu.be/gT6bV7rSdC0) and (https://youtu.be/MR9O36teYG0). Therefore, I should be able to get more shots right at his rim even without fast breaks.

Spacing:

While he has great shooters through his roster to space the floor, so do I. Carter (40 3pt%, 4.4 3pa) Harden (.357 3pt%, 9.1 3pa), Mookie (.365 3pt% 7.5 3pa), Clifford (.367 3pt% 3.9 3pa), Christie (.372 3pt% 2.9 3pa). And even Larry Johnson (.353 3pa) and Brad Miller (.802 ft%) could shoot too. I will always have at least three 3-pt shooters on the floor. And I can have as many as five shooters on the floor utilizing multiple personnel with Clifford or Brad Miller at C. I will have equal if not better spacing to make use of Wilt, Harden, Carter, and my PF athleticism. As good a defensive player as Lucas or Sampson was they were not equipped to guard shooters and slashers in space like I have.

Ball Movement:

I think having Wilt in the post gives me an extra passer besides my guards. This third option, like a poor manís Draymond, makes my half-court offense that much more dynamic than his starting unit. Wiltís outlet passing off rebounds will lead to quicker fast breaks. I also like my chances to rebound better up and down my roster. But if I start to get pushed around I have Larry Johnson who can bang with the best of them. I can speed the game up with Clifford and Ray Richardson or play nasty if it slows down with Larry Johnson. Who is still a good enough athlete that I can always play fast no matter how big I go.

Defense:

Wade can get his 30 and I donít think it will matter unless he can get his shooters involved or get Ewing going. Since I can limit his post-game with Wilt, Wade and his pgís will have to control most of the offense. Price and Strickland will have all nba 1st team defense Mookie or Ray Richardson on them ideally the entire game, so they donít scare me. Which limits Riceís ability to get involved even if he gets away from Carter, All D Christie, or All D Clifford. If he forces me to switch, Bobby Jones and Wilt will both be better against guards than Lucas or Ewing. I think I have a good chance of disrupting everything around Wade. Who I donít think can beat me by himself, given my offensive firepower.

If I must, Harden can also hide against spot up shooters like Price or Rice if I need Doug Christie, Ray Richardson, Cliffordís length, or Mookieís quickness to slow Wade down. Harden is at least big enough to continue to disrupt his smaller guards while my plethora of elite defenders make things harder on Wade. If I must.

On his entire team Maurice Lucas is the only player to make 1st team All defense and he only did it once. Thatís 1 1st all D team vs 14. My defense will be much better than his.

Most of all Wade being forced to guard Harden almost the entire game means he must expel a lot of energy on defense, combined with the load he must carry on offense, I think I can take advantage of Wadeís durability issues. (Never played 82 games. 70 games only 6 times in his career). If Wade doesnít focus on D he really wonít be able to keep up with my offense. The rest of his perimeter players are very bad defenders. So that leaves just Sprewell to realistically guard Harden outside Wade. And nobody to check Carter. So no matter what Wade will have to guard a very dangerous offensive player while carrying a huge load offensively. That puts a lot of pressure on his best player that none of my top three will face.

Overall I will always have at least three All Defensive 1st team players on the court. One at every level. Since he has only a couple elite shot creators Iíll always have a defender for them. I have the defenders to focus on wade. Or focus on everyone else. I can even put an all-nba 1st team guy at all five positions at a time. I even have solid rim protection. I think his offense will have a difficult time keeping up with my offense, getting easy buckets in transition, or maintaining any kind of rhythm.

Summation

I believe Iím better in transition. Better in the half court. Better in the post. Iíll have better ball movement with my three starting passers vs his two. Three guys who can create their own shot at an elite level vs two. More elite rim attackers. Equal or better spacing. I have more elite defenders. I can be more dynamic with my defensive strategy and more dynamic with my offensive approach. Inside-out or outside-in. Slow or fast. And I believe I will end up with more possessions thanks to my pick pockets and rebounders. By the end of the game, because of wiltís stamina and wadeís durability issues, considering the load each will have to carry, I think I can outlast him too.

I donít see where he has a clear advantage he can consistently rely on.

Rivera
06-04-2018, 04:04 PM
nice write up, I do believe your offense is better. But I do have one question

With Carter and Harden as your primary wings, how are you going to be able to defend any wing that is a playmaker/star?

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 04:46 PM
By your analysis g one must wonder how two great players ever played together lol. Maybe that's why you only have one when most teams here have two or three?

https://youtu.be/4PuX5V9B7jE

Pau was extremely valuable to Back2Back Champion Lakers. Heís the perfect 2punch on MJís Alpha

valade16
06-04-2018, 04:47 PM
I REALLY hope G and Dunka face off at some point lol

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 05:07 PM
I REALLY hope G and Dunka face off at some point lol

LMAo been debating for weeks now.

Dunkapolooza
06-04-2018, 05:42 PM
G1 Pau is a really good player. He is not a great player in this league. He is not, never was, nor ever could have been a serious MVP candidate. Many of these teams, like mine, have two players who in their peak always finished in the top five MVP voting.


Rivera -


With Harden and Carter I will rely on being over all more effective. Carter can guard any of his wings (except wade) better than that player can guard him. Is Sprewell going to win a match up against Carter or Harden? is Rice going to be able to guard Carter at all?


I can bring in one of my elite defenders into my starting line up and move mookie to my bench without giving up three point shooting if I need to need to crack down on elite wings. Carter/wilt can take over as my secondary ball handler if Clifford comes in. Or Richardson can handle the ball who is big enough to check wings if he starts.


Other than that I have Richardson, Christie, and Clifford Robinson coming off my bench who are all elite defenders. They are in fact more decorated than any defender he has.

Rivera
06-04-2018, 05:53 PM
G1 Pau is a really good player. He is not a great player in this league. He is not, never was, nor ever could have been a serious MVP candidate. Many of these teams, like mine, have two players who in their peak always finished in the top five MVP voting.


Rivera -


With Harden and Carter I will rely on being over all more effective. Carter can guard any of his wings (except wade) better than that player can guard him. Is Sprewell going to win a match up against Carter or Harden? is Rice going to be able to guard Carter at all?


I can bring in one of my elite defenders into my starting line up and move mookie to my bench without giving up three point shooting if I need to need to crack down on elite wings. Carter/wilt can take over as my secondary ball handler if Clifford comes in. Or Richardson can handle the ball who is big enough to check wings if he starts.


Other than that I have Richardson, Christie, and Clifford Robinson coming off my bench who are all elite defenders. They are in fact more decorated than any defender he has.

I like your odds in this matchup. in the future matchups, I think this is going to be your biggest problem. Your overall defense. Wilt gets in foul trouble, you have 0 rim protection out side of that. Christie is a solid defender but barely is playing, same for Richardson. Carter isnt a defensive stopper in any strech and we all know Hardens reputation.

Chronz
06-04-2018, 05:57 PM
Every year Members of PSD participate in a draft of all players all-time in an attempt to make the best team possible and win in a playoff determined by fellow members of PSD.

This years rules included being able to only start 2 players from the 00's and 1 from the 70's and earlier.

Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 game series. The top team has home-court advantage for this series.

Team Dunkapalooza - Homecourt Advantage

PG: Mookie Blaylock 30 // James Harden 10 // Michael Ray Richardson 8
SG: James Harden 26 // Vince Carter 19 // Michael Ray Richardson 3
SF: Vince Carter 17 // Doug Christie 16 // Clifford 11 // Larry Johnson 4
PF: Bobby Jones 29 // Larry Johnson 13 // Clifford Robinson 6
C: Wilt Chamberlain 41 // Brad Miller 6 // Clifford Robinson 1

v

Nonameland

PG- Mark Price [32] / Rod Strickland [10] Dwyane Wade [6]
SG- Dwyane Wade [32] / Byron Scott [16]
SF- Glen Rice [30] / Latrell Sprewell [18]
PF- Maurice Lucas [32] / Spencer Haywood [8] / Ralph Sampson [8]
C- Patrick Ewing [38] / Ralph Sampson [10]
Gimme no name in 6

Dunkapolooza
06-04-2018, 06:05 PM
I think Christie's skills set makes him an ideal role player in this. So he can play 18-22 minutes. Richardson can play nearly that many too. So I can give 30-40 minutes of elite defense on any perimeter player. add in Clifford and I can cover 1-5 with 40 minutes all NBA defense.

Wilt never fouled out of a game. Literally. He was ejected from a couple but he never actually fouled out. In his peak he averaged just 1.8 fouls a game. I don't think he gets enough credit for being as smart about that as he was so i'd trust him if he got in a little foul trouble.

So it's possible he fouls out but it is extremely unlikely.

If he does Carter, Clifford, bobby Jones and Brad miller were not afraid to contest shots. Not elite rim protection yeah but it will only have to stand up for a couple minutes most likely.

KnicksorBust
06-04-2018, 06:10 PM
I hate Wilt and Harden and I love Wade but I am still leaning Dunka just bc their system is so obvious and VC-Bobby-LJ all fit perfectly with Harden.

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 06:13 PM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1_hint=Pau+Gasol&player_id1_select=Pau+Gasol&player_id1=gasolpa01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Garnett&player_id2_select=Kevin+Garnett&player_id2=garneke01&idx=players

Pau vs KG

valade16
06-04-2018, 06:40 PM
I like your odds in this matchup. in the future matchups, I think this is going to be your biggest problem. Your overall defense. Wilt gets in foul trouble, you have 0 rim protection out side of that. Christie is a solid defender but barely is playing, same for Richardson. Carter isnt a defensive stopper in any strech and we all know Hardens reputation.

Really? He averaged 2 fouls per game his career and never once fouled out of a regular season game.

Shammyguy3
06-04-2018, 10:40 PM
Really? He averaged 2 fouls per game his career and never once fouled out of a regular season game.

Thats because of his "ohh-lay" defense

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 11:05 PM
Thats because of his "ohh-lay" defense

lmao!

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 11:36 PM
I guess, I'm in the minority of thinking Dunks team has horrible chemistry, just the thought of Harden playing ISO ball with Wilt waiting around playing the Wilnt Capela role is horrible.

Wilt
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html#1960-1966-sum:per_game
31FGA

Harden
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html#2016-2018-sum:per_game
20FGA

Carter
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html#2000-2005-sum:per_game
20.5FGA

Mookie shooting 15FGA and Bobby Jones shooting 10FGA

shooting over 96FGA a game.. and the bench will be effective? the GSW only shoot 85 FGA in this fast paced era.

So we're expected to believe Grandmama 15FGA and the rest of his bench will be effective?

There's zero "Elite Wing Defenders" -0 DPOY lmao not to mention Mookie, MRR, Wilt, Cliff Robinson parties after games.

this team is full of failure and only 3 NBA Championships total for the entire team (Wade alone has 3).. This team would quit so fast in the face of adversity, history has shown it for his entire team and yet we're supposed to believe this team full of non-champions can win? no sir.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 01:37 AM
Shammy what are you talking about ooh lay defense? Lol what...

He got 55 rebounds in a single game against the best rebounding team in the league. 26 blocks in a game lol. Watch those videos. The reason he didn't foul much is because he did not need to contest shots at the release point like every other shot blocker. Which means there is little to not chance of fouling Look at the video. When he did contest at the release point he got it clean.

Everyone in his time thought he was among the most imposing defenders in the league. Now you're going to contradict the people who played him?

Wilt is a more decorated defender than Ewing btw. By accolades if wilt is a bad defender than Ewing is trash lol. Which simply doesn't make any sense.

Wilt will block more shots than Ewing. Foul less. He'll easily out rebound Ewing. He's going to guard Ewing better than Ewing can guard wilt. There is no aspect of Ewing's defensive game that is equal to wilt. None.

And g your arguments are getting more ridiculous lol. I sure as hell hope your players have proven they can carry a bigger load than what will be asked of them in this league lol. I mean look at the Olympic teams, by your argument LeBron and melo couldn't play together. Magic and Jordan would have sucked. It's just a nonsense argument.

Also my team has multiple people who lead a team as an alpha who went on to win playoff series. Who then also proved they could play next to an alpha.

Outside Jordan nobody on your team ever led a team to a playoff win. Lol Not one game. Lol. So yeah talk about rings all you want but artest and Pau are not leading any teams anywhere. At least pippen managed to lead the bulls to playoff wins. Artest or Pau couldn't have.

I mean your team isn't even as good as the core Jordan actually played with lol. Pippen / rodman > artest / pau. Meanwhile everyone on my roster is playing with guys they never dreamed of getting a chance to play with.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 01:43 AM
Btw all my so called not elite defenders have more accolades than any defender he's got. Wilt > Ewing. Bobby Jones >> Maurice lucas. Bobby Jones >> Ewing. Mookie > Wade. Mookie > ewing. Christie > sprewell. Christie > Wade. Christie > Ewing. Clifford = Ewing. Clifford > sprewell. Clifford = Wade. Ray Richardson > sprewell. Richardson > Wade. Richardson > Ewing.

I mean the list goes on. My defense will be better all game long. My offense is clearly better.

I have five mvp trophies. He has 0. Come on man.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 01:48 AM
Wilt could dunk with one step from the free throw line. The video I linked showed wilt catching a really deep two from the free throw line. That's how you get 26 blocks and don't foul out. You certainly don't get two 1st team all NBA defensive teams for ooh-lay. lol. I mean that's like saying Wade played ooh lay defense. Since wilt is more decorated than anyone on his team.

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 02:50 AM
Lmao ďoutside of JordanĒ sounds like you missed the 90ís. Micheal Jordan was thee most driven, hungry, GOAT, the man simply carried his team to 6x NBA Championships. 5x MVP, 10x Scoring Champ, 9x All-Defense, DPOY, 6x Finals MVP.thats what 3 more than your entire team... what more else do I need other than two DPOY (only 7 wings all-time) and a legit #2 punch in Pau who would flourish/embrace that role as he did for Kobe.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 03:02 AM
You obviously don't remember watching the bulls games in much detail, or haven't watched them recently. Check Hardwood classics. Especially as the offseason starts. They usually have Jordan games. Or you tube.

But quite frankly pippen didn't score 20+ points a game and 7+ asst by catching passes from Jordan. Jordan didn't have the ball on every play. Not even most plays. Something like 30+%. You'll need large parts of the game controlled by other players. Especially in this league.

You act like being rubbish and unable to be a #1 punch on a play off team makes you a better #2 here. When it really means that's the best that player could ever do here. You know who would make a better second option than Pau? Hakeem. But that kind of talent is unlikely on one of these teams hu? Yet your arguments suggest they couldn't play together because they take too many shots. They both are too good of iso players. Blah blah blah.

The point being that if all you could be is a number two option on a real nba team you're probably more like a three or four in this league. If you were a number one, unless you're a top twenty player all time, you're probably gonna have to be number 2 option. Like Ewing. Or Harden.

Being more talented than your role requires doesn't mean your team is bad. It means its insanely good. Hence the warriors, where almost all their players are better than the role that is asked of them.


Carter could never realistically be a number one option on here. Yet he was the number one option on multiple teams that went deep in the playoffs. Yet he couldn't lead an offense in this league. So for the parts of the game my stars are resting he can take over at a deep play off run level kind of offense.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 03:07 AM
Btw, basically all of my players did exactly the same thing that Pau did. No different than what Carter has done multiple times. Or Wilt, first to philly where he became the best passing big man of all time up to that point. Then he went to play with West in LA and took Russell's place as the most dominate defensive force in the league.

The man completely changed his game, and his numbers changing drastically proves it...twice. Every bit the same as Pau.

Every time Wilt went to a new team he changed his game to fit that team.

And every role he took he was the best at it in the league.

Or in the case of passing and scoring at the time, the best ever. Do not discount Wilts talent lol.

Even Harden accepted a lesser role and excelled. Bringing in another alpha dog and ball handler made Harden better. And before that he excelled so much at taking on a lesser role he was sixth man of the year

valade16
06-05-2018, 09:10 AM
Thats because of his "ohh-lay" defense

Possibly, except that Wilt is widely considered among the best defenders ever.

valade16
06-05-2018, 09:12 AM
Lmao ďoutside of JordanĒ sounds like you missed the 90ís. Micheal Jordan was thee most driven, hungry, GOAT, the man simply carried his team to 6x NBA Championships. 5x MVP, 10x Scoring Champ, 9x All-Defense, DPOY, 6x Finals MVP.thats what 3 more than your entire team... what more else do I need other than two DPOY (only 7 wings all-time) and a legit #2 punch in Pau who would flourish/embrace that role as he did for Kobe.

Pau was a legit #2 punch in real life, meaning in an All-Time Game full of All-Time Greats he is not a good #2 punch...

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 09:56 AM
Pau was a legit #2 punch in real life, meaning in an All-Time Game full of All-Time Greats he is not a good #2 punch...

Neither is Karl (get shut down by Rodman) Malone

valade16
06-05-2018, 10:17 AM
Neither is Karl (get shut down by Rodman) Malone

Luckily for me he can be my #3 option then behind Curry/Clyde.

JAZZNC
06-05-2018, 10:57 AM
Neither is Karl (get shut down by Rodman) Malone

Yeah I would love to have a guy getting shut down still getting me 24/11/3/1.5.....

Mile High Champ
06-05-2018, 11:11 AM
Perimeter defense is a concern for me when evaluating Dunk but their scoring is just far to difficult to stop with the likes of VC, Harden and Wilt.

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 11:13 AM
Luckily for me he can be my #3 option then behind Curry/Clyde.

Clyde ďdissapearĒ Drexler vs MJ? Glad you finally showed up in these debates/votes just in time for your brothers matchup ;)

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 11:25 AM
Yeah I would love to have a guy getting shut down still getting me 24/11/3/1.5.....

https://youtu.be/OdUT3GPlGwU

Man, I miss old NBA.

Guys like Lambieer, Rodman, Oakley, Mahorn, Artest are just absolute dogs, I donít think weíll be getting another in awhile.

Mile High Champ
06-05-2018, 11:29 AM
https://youtu.be/OdUT3GPlGwU

Man, I miss old NBA.

Guys like Lambieer, Rodman, Oakley, Mahorn, Artest are just absolute dogs, I donít think weíll be getting another in awhile.

That NBA is long gone. Hand checking and physical play are no longer a staple of the NBA and those kinds of players are a dead breed. All about finesse and length now, not about brute strength and toughness. It is sad.

Rivera
06-05-2018, 12:05 PM
Really? He averaged 2 fouls per game his career and never once fouled out of a regular season game.

thats the tricky thing about this game, and comparing bball in general, is the eras they played in. in this matchup, noname lands main driver is Wade, rice can do it in spurts, spree is coming off the bench, which wont cause to much of a foul problem for wilt.

but go against the Harden and VC team that has more drivers and people who can cause more fouls, thats where Wilt can get in trouble. In the era Wilt played in, its just different

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 01:49 PM
Right I hear ya Rivera. The problem with the idea here is that Wilt was insanely good at not fouling. It had nothing to do with era. He was just very disciplined in that way. Its not like big men didn't foul in Wilt's time. Russell and Thurmond both averaged nearly three fouls a game. Compare that to wilt's 1.8 in prime. Wilt was simply much better than his peers in this regard. (Really in almost every regard)

I mean Era has nothing to do with never fouling out of a game lol. Besides that the era was extremely post centric, meaning Wilt was used to crowded space down low and every team trying to get to the rim. Now days with so much three point shooting its highly possible he fouled less. Simply because there are less people attacking the rim now and instead pulling up for long jumpers.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 02:04 PM
Besides Rivera, I'm definitely going to foul out any big man before wilt fouls out. Lol Harden and Wilt averaged 20 fta attempts a game. Oh and there's Carter.

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 03:29 PM
Yea Rivera, donít you know harden/Wilt/Carter will be shooting 90FGA and 50+FTA

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 03:32 PM
https://youtu.be/YnayIPA0Yfk

Lmao

valade16
06-05-2018, 03:51 PM
Yea Rivera, donít you know harden/Wilt/Carter will be shooting 90FGA and 50+FTA

Well if you look at when they actually played with other superstars, Wilt/Vince/Harden (Wilt on LA, Vince in NJ, etc.) would actually be shooting 43 shots and 28 FTs. That actually seems very reasonable IMO.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 04:19 PM
https://youtu.be/YnayIPA0Yfk

Lmao

Please try and fight my team. Lol. Wilt and L J will knock artest's tiny ***** *** out lol.

Rivera
06-05-2018, 04:45 PM
Right I hear ya Rivera. The problem with the idea here is that Wilt was insanely good at not fouling. It had nothing to do with era. He was just very disciplined in that way. Its not like big men didn't foul in Wilt's time. Russell and Thurmond both averaged nearly three fouls a game. Compare that to wilt's 1.8 in prime. Wilt was simply much better than his peers in this regard. (Really in almost every regard)

I mean Era has nothing to do with never fouling out of a game lol. Besides that the era was extremely post centric, meaning Wilt was used to crowded space down low and every team trying to get to the rim. Now days with so much three point shooting its highly possible he fouled less. Simply because there are less people attacking the rim now and instead pulling up for long jumpers.


Besides Rivera, I'm definitely going to foul out any big man before wilt fouls out. Lol Harden and Wilt averaged 20 fta attempts a game. Oh and there's Carter.

i totally combined your team to use it against you, can you tell its already been a long work week? when i looked over i forgot you had harden and VC and I was saying if you went against those 2, that would cause trouble for Wilt lol and you have both smh on me and my eyes. Ill take the L on that one


the one thing i will say, is era's dont dictate fouling out of the game, its just the way how the game is played now to vs Wilts time. Theres more people in todays NBA thats more aggressive and goes to the hole off the dribble vs Wilts era which would cause fouling out of a game, you dont have much post presence after Wilt so if he ever did foul out your poor overall defense would be even worse is what I wanted to say

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 05:42 PM
Lol it happens man. I get your point though. This match up there aren't a lot of rim rockers to pressure Wilt. Other teams will have more dangerous drivers.

To that, my argument is that no team is going to put foul pressure on their opponent as much as my team. So even if they do have more depth in that regard, they'll have to rely on it more than I'll have to rely on my depth.

As far as people attacking rims in the sixty, there wasn't as many shooters, so naturally there were a lot of people driving. And more of a scrum inside when they did. And scrums create foul calls. Which highlights Wilt's discipline not to foul. So maybe he fouls more like 2.5 fouls a game? That's still incredibly low.

Dunkapolooza
06-05-2018, 06:11 PM
Crazy stats here... In wilts nba career 112 games recorded blocks. He averaged 8.8 BLK. Small sample size yeah, but wow.

In all 302 NCAA games he averaged 6.3 BLK.

That's the volume of shot blocking wilt was doing. While averaging less than 2 fouls. So even with a high volume of contests he simply didn't foul.

Wilt is quite simply the best at not fouling out in the history of the NBA. And there isn't even a second.

Had there been all NBA d teams for most of his career we might be talking about 8 or something all d accolades instead.

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 06:58 PM
Please try and fight my team. Lol. Wilt and L J will knock artest's tiny ***** *** out lol.

Grandmama is 6í7, Ron Artest is 6í7....

https://youtu.be/KRONorKxXI4

LJ doesnít even want any of Alonzo Mourning lmao he canít even connect with his 4 swing and misses lmao Ron Artest would beat the **** out of LJ.

Since youíre bringing Wilt, Guess weíll bring Rick Mahorn. ;)

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 01:34 AM
Lj has about 25 to 30 lbs on artest lol. Your man too small.

You seriously think Rick mahorn is going to do **** to wilt? Ali didn't even want to box wilt. Cause that was actually going to be a thing. That's the kind of athlete wilt was.

If Ali was scared of him, I'll take wilt against any player lol

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 02:17 AM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01.html

6í6/6í7 260 lbs

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsla02.html

6í6/6í7 250lbs

Yea anybody except 6í10, 215 lb Russell who beat Wilt over and over.

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 04:45 AM
Maybe at the very end of his career artest did. At the end of ljs he weighed like 275 lol when moronic artest went to his lone all star game I mean he was not LeBron lol.

Seriously, one all star game lmao. I know, great defense and three point shooting, he checks those boxes for people. But damn. He's got to be among the least decorated players in the league right?

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 11:07 AM
Bro.... youíre trying hard.

2x All Star, ROY, 0x Championships < 1x all Star, All NBA, DPOY (only 7 wings ever all-time), NBA Champion

Artest wouldíve had more accolades too if he didnít rush into the stands to **** everyone up lmfao (that boy is ****in crazy) The NBA took a black eye, and suspended Artest for practically 2years. NBA made sure not to reward that behavior, like denying Kobe accolades because of his rape case.


Also, LJ wasnít 270lbs, his playing weight was always 250 unless youíre taking about the end of his career when he was bulkier, slower, fatter and less productive.

Shammyguy3
06-06-2018, 11:23 AM
Shammy what are you talking about ooh lay defense? Lol what...

Just messing with ya honestly :laugh2:

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 03:16 PM
Lol ah shammy.

My point about l.j. is that he gained weight in his career just like artest did. Durring their peaks lj was bigger and physical enough to play in the post unlike artest.

Oh and you forgot lj made all NBA 2nd team too. So among my worst players is more n decorated than one of your big three lol.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 04:03 PM
What? DPOY > your entire team of no defense players.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 04:06 PM
Your team would score 120 itís a and give up 130 lol

Iíve never seen someone out together a bunch of losing underachievers and talk about how they would be so good lmao.

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 05:33 PM
Give up 130 to who lol? You can't mean you. You couldn't score that much against actual nba teams. I mean can your team even score a hundred? Pau and Artest combined only averaged 20 points four times their entire careers lol. 4 of 34 seasons lol. Goodrich is going to put up the second most shots on your team, easily, and its going to be god awful eff even if he's alone in the gym.


And you act like Bobby Jones didn't win a DPOY when the truth was there was no DPOY to win in his time. By the time it came to be Bobby Jones was nearing retirement. He's a better and more decorated defender than Ron Artest. 2x all d 1st team vs 9x lol. Not even close.

One all star game lmao. At least Bobby's defense was good enough to take him to almost as many all star games as Gasol. My 4th best player is basically as decorated as your second best player.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 07:31 PM
4 of my starters are NBA Champions, All NBA, and scored 19+ppg, then MJ avg 35ppg but against your team and 0 defense he would probably average 40-45ppg. Thatís 116ppg not even including my bench.... 116ppg average on a team where everyone knows their role, everyone knows MJ is Alpha and the second most shots would be coming from the rest of my starters as a whole. Funny, MJ wouldnít kill this league? Lmao maybe you should go back and watch your ďhardwood classics againĒ since only one of us was old enough to actually watch and appreciate him.

Iíll give you Bobby Jones as a above average defender but why do you always spew nonsense and Whitney youíre never right about lmao the DPOY was first handed out in 1982... BJ career was 1975-1986 putting him
In the era that DPOY started... and he still couldnít get one. So again DPOY IS THE elite of the Elite defensively to get that award, you have to be the absolute best defender in the league and only 7 wings ALL-Time have 1 and my team has two of them.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 07:33 PM
**** on Gail Goodrich all you want but w/o him Wilt only has 1 Championship lmao 1/7 tries.... yikes. As he led the 1972 LAkers scoring season/playoffs/& Finals.

Dunkapolooza
06-07-2018, 02:02 AM
Without him meaning that had wilt played with 4 people it might have been tough lol.

Really Gail should be thanking wilt because without him Goodrich isn't even in this game.

72 hu? What a year or two before wilt retired? Awesome... imagine if he had a volume scorer who was actually good... Like harden... Or Carter... Lol

valade16
06-07-2018, 04:22 PM
Team Dunkapalooza wins.