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View Full Version : NBA All-Time Redraft Playoffs 1st Round (Saskatchatoon Snozzberries v Team PSK/MBT)



valade16
06-04-2018, 09:14 AM
Every year Members of PSD participate in a draft of all players all-time in an attempt to make the best team possible and win in a playoff determined by fellow members of PSD.

This years rules included being able to only start 2 players from the 00's and 1 from the 70's and earlier.

Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 game series. The top team has home-court advantage for this series.

Saskatchatoon Snozzberries - Homecourt Advantage

PG: Chauncey Billups
SG: Sam Jones
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Shawn Kemp
C: Dikembe Mutombo

Bench:
PG Dave Bing
SG DeMar Derozan
SF Lamar Odom
PF Elvin Hayes
C DeAndre Jordan

v

Team PSK/MBT

PG: Walt Frazier (36) / Gilbert Arenas (12)
SG: Mitch Richmond (32) / "Thunder" Dan Majerle (16) / Don Buse
SF: Paul Pierce (36) / Dan Majerle (8) / Toni Kukoc (4)
PF: Kevin Garnett (40) / Toni Kukoc (8)
C: Vlade Divac (32) / Nikola Jokic (16)

NYKalltheway
06-04-2018, 09:56 AM
This is the toughest match up out there. Want to see what the GMs say, though I'm leaning towards one of them.

Rivera
06-04-2018, 10:17 AM
yea this is the toughest matchup im interested to read the writeups

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 10:59 AM
great series this would be!

Quinnsanity
06-04-2018, 11:48 AM
PSK and MBT just have a team that's better constructed.

Shammyguy3
06-04-2018, 01:16 PM
PSK and MBT just have a team that's better constructed.

How exactly?

mightybosstone
06-04-2018, 01:32 PM
Ugh... 8:15 on a Monday morning is kind of a rough time to be expected to come up with a writeup.

I'll try to come up with some kind of a quick writeup this evening when I get home from work...

Raps18-19 Champ
06-04-2018, 07:59 PM
PSK/MBT got a good matchup. Divac isn't going to be exposed in this matchup.

GREATNESS ONE
06-04-2018, 10:31 PM
PSK/MBT got a good matchup. Divac isn't going to be exposed in this matchup.

Dikembe Mutombo is a 4x DPOY.Bird a 3x Champion 3x MVP, Sam Jones who helped beat the Jerry West/Bayor/Wilt Lakers MULTIPLE X and a legit PG in Billups... IDK where, AI is but he has a good argument/case to make here


MBT has a great team too and I am really curious to see which team, Boston fans like better.

mightybosstone
06-05-2018, 06:28 PM
Some quick points here...

1. As Raps said, this matchup is perfect for us as the Snozzberries don't have any real offensive weapons at center capable of exploiting Divac (who was a solid defensive center in his own right).

2. Also, it's going to be hard for the Snozzberries to really take advantage of Mutombo's interior presence defensively as every single big on our team is capable of shooting jumpers out to 18 feet. We're going to play KG, Divac and Jokic in a lot of sets 18-20 feet from the basket to pull Mutombo and Jordan from the rim and give our penetrators more room to work inside. Having quality shooting big men with elite passing skills—KG (5-6 AST per game), Divac (3-4 AST per game) and Jokic (5-6 AST per game)—will space the floor and gives us a ton of flexibility offensively. The high pick and roll is a weapon we plan to use a lot in this series with pretty much every big man on the roster, and I don't see how the Snozzberries plan to counter that.

3. I think the Snozzberries' perimeter defense is going to get exposed in this one. Having the slow-footed Bird on Pierce and a guard who peaked in the early 60s in Jones on an elite scorer and shooter like Richmond is a recipe for disaster. And they didn't really address this with their bench guys as DeRozan is probably their best perimeter defender off the bench. I'm not remotely worried about Dave Bing trying to keep up with Arenas or Frazier or a 6'10" Odom (who would be better suited at the 4) guarding much quicker, more athletic wings like Majerle and Pierce.

4. Offensively, I think the Snozzberries are outmatched in this series. We have excellent passers and shooters across the board as well as guys who can score in bunches. Our starting five features four guys who consistently averaged an efficient 20+ points a game with a TS% over 54% and all five averaged 4+ AST per game at their peak. Outside of Bird, who is their No. 2 scorer? Kemp and Billups were 17-19 PPG guys, Jones topped 22-23 a night (albeit in the 60s) and Deke is a total liability on that end.

5. The Snozzberries' will really struggle if we opt to play uptempo with KG at the 5 in certain rotations. We can run out lineups with KG at center, Kukoc at the 4 with any number of athletic wings and guards at the 1-3. What lineup do they have to matchup with that? Our lineup flexibility is a huge plus with multiple guys who can play 2-3 positions.

6. Hack-a-Jordan. I hope Mutombo likes playing 40+ minutes every game, because if Jordan is on the floor, there's a strong possibility we're using that strategy, especially once they get into any kind of offensive rhythm.

mightybosstone
06-05-2018, 06:34 PM
People who voted for AI, care to justify your vote? I'd love to have some debate...

GREATNESS ONE
06-05-2018, 07:11 PM
Where you at AI? Hard to not vote for MBT when he’s the only one making an argument for his team.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-05-2018, 08:38 PM
Dikembe Mutombo is a 4x DPOY.Bird a 3x Champion 3x MVP, Sam Jones who helped beat the Jerry West/Bayor/Wilt Lakers MULTIPLE X and a legit PG in Billups... IDK where, AI is but he has a good argument/case to make here


MBT has a great team too and I am really curious to see which team, Boston fans like better.

I think PG-SF is favoured for AI but was just pointing out that Vlade is the obvious weak point and they can't really exploit it. If AI had a more competent offensive C, even if KG is guarding them, I would probably have picked AI rather easily.

Lakers + Giants
06-05-2018, 10:12 PM
I legitimately can't decide who to vote on.

In my ballot I had AI 4th and PSK/MBT 5th.... ughhhh. basically we're right back at the same situation.

dhopisthename
06-06-2018, 12:09 AM
I legitimately can't decide who to vote on.

In my ballot I had AI 4th and PSK/MBT 5th.... ughhhh. basically we're right back at the same situation.

its pretty easy for me if AI can't even get on to defend his team.

Lakers + Giants
06-06-2018, 12:44 AM
its pretty easy for me if AI can't even get on to defend his team.

that will definitely make my vote easy. I'm not asking for a a write up. Just some key points like MBT would suffice. Just need to see each other's game plan.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 12:50 AM
pretty much. Tomorrow night during the Finals , I'll make my vote on this one but so far definitely leaning MBT.

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 04:50 AM
Basically trying to wait for write ups as long as possible. I love that ****. Lol.

Dunkapolooza
06-06-2018, 04:54 AM
But I don't know... Is it just me or does it seem like bird doesn't have a real second option next to him. Billups, Jones, or Kemp? Are any of them going to average twenty in this league?

Idk man. Having McHale, parish, and dj as all guys who could lead a team in scoring. How many times did those guys do that? Is Sam Jones "the shooter" a realistic second option here?

NYKalltheway
06-06-2018, 09:07 AM
People who voted for AI, care to justify your vote? I'd love to have some debate...

Well, I didn't want to waste time trying to promote my matchup as it seemed like a lost cause and I can't really preach against the best offense when my defence is below average, but I'll give a brief explanation of my vote here as I 'rushed' to make it before hearing the GMs after all.

I actually think overall your team is better, at least on paper, but this is not really a which team is better game but which team will win in a 7 game series.

Where team PSK/MBT wins:
- It has the highest team chemistry in the game (imo, my team was in the top 3 and the other top 3 team was Shammy's, but it feels like this team wins that category).
- Slightly better depth. Neither team has a good enough bench and neither team has a complete roster where all possible roles can be addressed.

Where AI wins:
- It offers much more flexibility on offense.
- It has much more flexibility on defence.
- Its players have been slightly better at their peak.
- It's the most clutch team of the game. This is the playoffs. Though the other team is also very strong with the clutch attribute, it cannot be taken away from the Snozzberries that they're the most clutch team and should get extra points in the matchup.
Whilst Team PSK/MBT may get a higher seed on paper, in the playoffs, playoffs things count the most. And the Snozzberries are more playoff material than the other team, even if that's just a slight advantage.

Now aside from the composition of the teams, looking at their players, they are both great. Buth both rely on their starting lineups for their game. The bench is just there to exist, it doesn't add value to the team. And PSK/MBT has bigger problems due to this. But at the same time, it's not like the opposing bench can tear them apart or can challenge their starters with much effect.

So at the end of the day, the names pretty much seal the win. Having Larry Bird, Billups and Mutombo, a great PF in Kemp and a perennial champion in Sam Jones is and sounds better than a team of Garnett & Pierce plus the great Walt Frazier with guys like Divac and the underrated Mitch Richmond completing the lineup.
While this was not my main criteria as I think the star value of both teams is similar, I think this is the main reason why the Larry Bird team is winning.

mightybosstone
06-06-2018, 09:53 AM
But I don't know... Is it just me or does it seem like bird doesn't have a real second option next to him. Billups, Jones, or Kemp? Are any of them going to average twenty in this league?

Idk man. Having McHale, parish, and dj as all guys who could lead a team in scoring. How many times did those guys do that? Is Sam Jones "the shooter" a realistic second option here?

And on top of that, Billups and Kemp are being defended by two of the all-time great defenders at their respective positions.

mightybosstone
06-06-2018, 10:12 AM
Where AI wins:
- It offers much more flexibility on offense.
I just could not disagree more with this statement. Some of the other things you state here have some validity, but not this one. Our starting five is about as solid an offensive starting five as you'll find in this game. Everyone can shoot. Everyone passes at an above average level for their respective positions. And I've got four exceptional scorers, three of which have championship experience.

On the flip side, AI's team has one elite scoring option and a bunch of guys who would be better suited for No. 3 scorers in this game. His center is an offensive black hole, and three of his five starters are sub-par passers at their respective positions. Throw on top of that that he didn't get any versatility with his bench center in Jordan, who's the same guy as Mutombo minus competent free-throw shooting.

On our end, our bench offers a TON of flexibility. Majerle and Kukoc can each player 2-3 positions and can stretch the floor. Arenas gives us a volume scorer and energy guy to play the traditional sixth man role, and Jokic is one of the most versatile offensive centers in the history of the game. We could feasibly run our offense through him 20 feet from the basket if we want to.

I just don't know how you make the case that their offense is in any way more versatile than ours.


- Its players have been slightly better at their peak.
- It's the most clutch team of the game. This is the playoffs. Though the other team is also very strong with the clutch attribute, it cannot be taken away from the Snozzberries that they're the most clutch team and should get extra points in the matchup.
I see where you're coming from here, although I'd agree to disagree. Statistically, KG was every bit the player Bird was at their peaks. And Frazier and Pierce were better at their peaks than any two players on the Snozzberries. In terms of top-end talent, we have three of the all-time 50 greatest players of all-time. The Snozzberries probably have one.

As far as clutch, I kind of think that point is overplayed here. Yes, Billups and Bird were clutch, but are we going to act like Frazier and Pierce weren't? Frazier had one of the all-time great clutch performances in the history of the NBA in the 1970 finals against the Lakers, putting up 36 and 19 against Wilt with Reed barely playing in the game to bring New York its first championship. Reed won the Finals MVP that year, but it should have gone to Frazier.


Whilst Team PSK/MBT may get a higher seed on paper, in the playoffs, playoffs things count the most. And the Snozzberries are more playoff material than the other team, even if that's just a slight advantage.
Except we're not the higher seed on paper. The Snozzberries have HCA.


Now aside from the composition of the teams, looking at their players, they are both great. Buth both rely on their starting lineups for their game. The bench is just there to exist, it doesn't add value to the team. And PSK/MBT has bigger problems due to this. But at the same time, it's not like the opposing bench can tear them apart or can challenge their starters with much effect.
:confused:

You completely lose me here. How does our bench not add value? Kukoc gives us a stretch 4 to cause matchup problems and allows us to play small. Majerle gives us an athletic two-way guy to come in for stretches defensively to guard Bird, Jones and other scorers. Arenas was an elite scorer at his peak who gives us a spark off the bench. And Jokic is a mismatch for anyone in this game pretty much anytime he's on the floor.


So at the end of the day, the names pretty much seal the win. Having Larry Bird, Billups and Mutombo, a great PF in Kemp and a perennial champion in Sam Jones is and sounds better than a team of Garnett & Pierce plus the great Walt Frazier with guys like Divac and the underrated Mitch Richmond completing the lineup.
While this was not my main criteria as I think the star value of both teams is similar, I think this is the main reason why the Larry Bird team is winning.
Yeah, sorry dude, but I'm not buying it. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I just don't buy that the names alone are justification for picking one team over the other. When you actually look at the players themselves, their production and the matchup, I think you're seriously underrating our squad.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 11:58 AM
Well, I didn't want to waste time trying to promote my matchup as it seemed like a lost cause and I can't really preach against the best offense when my defence is below average, but I'll give a brief explanation of my vote here as I 'rushed' to make it before hearing the GMs after all.

I actually think overall your team is better, at least on paper, but this is not really a which team is better game but which team will win in a 7 game series.

Where team PSK/MBT wins:
- It has the highest team chemistry in the game (imo, my team was in the top 3 and the other top 3 team was Shammy's, but it feels like this team wins that category).
- Slightly better depth. Neither team has a good enough bench and neither team has a complete roster where all possible roles can be addressed.

Where AI wins:
- It offers much more flexibility on offense.
- It has much more flexibility on defence.
- Its players have been slightly better at their peak.
- It's the most clutch team of the game. This is the playoffs. Though the other team is also very strong with the clutch attribute, it cannot be taken away from the Snozzberries that they're the most clutch team and should get extra points in the matchup.
Whilst Team PSK/MBT may get a higher seed on paper, in the playoffs, playoffs things count the most. And the Snozzberries are more playoff material than the other team, even if that's just a slight advantage.

Now aside from the composition of the teams, looking at their players, they are both great. Buth both rely on their starting lineups for their game. The bench is just there to exist, it doesn't add value to the team. And PSK/MBT has bigger problems due to this. But at the same time, it's not like the opposing bench can tear them apart or can challenge their starters with much effect.

So at the end of the day, the names pretty much seal the win. Having Larry Bird, Billups and Mutombo, a great PF in Kemp and a perennial champion in Sam Jones is and sounds better than a team of Garnett & Pierce plus the great Walt Frazier with guys like Divac and the underrated Mitch Richmond completing the lineup.
While this was not my main criteria as I think the star value of both teams is similar, I think this is the main reason why the Larry Bird team is winning.

This is longer than your posts in your Match!!!

Rivera
06-06-2018, 12:04 PM
i voted for mbt/psk wanted to see a write up but didnt get one

NYKalltheway
06-06-2018, 01:24 PM
I just could not disagree more with this statement. Some of the other things you state here have some validity, but not this one. Our starting five is about as solid an offensive starting five as you'll find in this game. Everyone can shoot. Everyone passes at an above average level for their respective positions. And I've got four exceptional scorers, three of which have championship experience.


You see, we're not really disagreeing here. But I'm talking about the whole team and not just the starting five. It's a 7 game series and the pool is an all time. You need your depth otherwise you may get penalized.

As for your other remarks, I'll just finish off by repeating what I said. Your team is probably a better one, for a Regular Season type of situation. I like it more overall. But this is a matchup between two and there are more things to like about the other team. Especially when it comes to winning playoff games. And I'll repeat another thing. This is the closest matchup I can remember in these games, so anyone can really say anything, it doesn't mean they're wrong though. Most opinions have validity here because it's too tough to call this. Which is why I said that the name value of guys like Bird, Mutombo, Jones and Billups may win it, whilst Frazier should have been remembered as a top 3-5 PG and he's not. Garnett should be considered an equal to Tim Duncan but he's not. Pierce should be considered an elite small forward, probably a top 10 contestant for the spot, but he doesn't get much love. And Richmond should be remembered as the 2nd best SG in the whole of the 90s behind MJ (Drexler retired halfway there) and in front of Reggie, but he's not. So your team is actually underrated due to its composition, not because people don't like it. Just like mine is with Patrick Ewing and Maurice Lucas at the front court.

GREATNESS ONE
06-06-2018, 05:21 PM
Man AI can’t even post. My vote is going my boy MBT.

Lakers + Giants
06-06-2018, 07:43 PM
Man AI can’t even post. My vote is going my boy MBT.

Same. Gave both sides more than enough time to make a case. Didn't need much, but failing to even show up gives the other team my vote when I was undecided on who to vote for.

mightybosstone
06-07-2018, 10:33 AM
God.... So many votes against me and so little explanation for why people are voting that way. At least debate with me! The whole reason I do these games in the first place is to talk NBA, and if you guys are just going to vote without the conversation, what in the hell is the point of them?

GREATNESS ONE
06-07-2018, 11:20 AM
Agreed, kinda lame that AI hasn’t even posted in the thread and his team is winning. People are hilarious, let’s just throw all these guys together and you figure out how they will mesh/chemistry lol

valade16
06-07-2018, 04:20 PM
Saskatchatoon Snozzberries wins.