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warfelg
05-23-2018, 02:43 PM
999352220448587776

WaDe03
05-23-2018, 02:43 PM
Jrich snubbed

FlashBolt
05-23-2018, 02:56 PM
Not a fan of RoCo there, honestly.

AntiG
05-23-2018, 03:14 PM
Marcus Smart shafted again.

TheDish87
05-23-2018, 03:28 PM
Cov has no business being on the first team. really didnt expect to see Dipo or Jrue on there either

c.c.
05-23-2018, 05:42 PM
Capela got snubbed

mrblisterdundee
05-23-2018, 05:46 PM
It's too bad about Roberson. He's obviously better than most of the defenders on this list.
I'm also with other people that Covington is being overrated. I'd rather have George. He was second in the NBA in deflections (306), third in loose balls recovered (140) and second in steals per game (2).

Oakmont_4
05-23-2018, 05:46 PM
Marcus Smart shafted again.

Coming off the bench works against him. He's a terrific defender, but I don't know that I'd have a valid argument as to why he should be on the team over these other players.

numba1CHANGsta
05-23-2018, 06:00 PM
You know what all those players have in common? they all made the playoffs, so I guess they got it right.

beasted86
05-23-2018, 06:24 PM
Paul George, Giannis, more than a couple forwards I'd easily take over Covington.

Chronz
05-24-2018, 01:14 AM
I like the rock nod, the real question is dafuq is Murray doing ther?

Lakers + Giants
05-24-2018, 01:49 AM
This is one of the most questionable one's I've seen. Usually It was based on reputation, which was bad (Kobe). This one is even worse imo.

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 07:50 AM
Paul George, Giannis, more than a couple forwards I'd easily take over Covington.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

you can take them all you want but neither guy was a better defender than Cov. I am covs biggest critic right now and lately but he deserve this.

In fact of all the people that won the award the only ones that have an argument over cov are Gobert

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 07:53 AM
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Rudy Gobert, C UTAH 56 32.4 -1.38 5.13 3.75 7.94
2 Andre Roberson, SG OKC 39 26.6 -2.57 4.45 1.88 3.23
3 Robert Covington, SF PHI 80 31.6 1.25 4.31 5.56 14.50
4 Jusuf Nurkic, C POR 79 26.4 -2.31 4.18 1.87 6.62
5 David West, PF GS 73 13.7 -1.42 4.02 2.60 3.65
6 Anthony Davis, PF NO 75 36.4 1.75 3.80 5.55 15.56
7 Aron Baynes, C BOS 81 18.3 -3.08 3.71 0.63 3.45
8 Hassan Whiteside, C MIA 54 25.3 -2.99 3.60 0.61 3.28
9 Joel Embiid, C PHI 63 30.3 1.42 3.60 5.02 10.03
10 Dejounte Murray, PG SA 81 21.5 -1.93 3.60 1.67 5.26
11 Nene Hilario, C HOU 52 14.6 -0.66 3.53 2.87 2.98
12 Salah Mejri, C DAL 61 12.0 -1.55 3.48 1.93 2.30
13 Ekpe Udoh, C UTAH 63 12.9 -1.38 3.34 1.96 2.60
14 Victor Oladipo, SG IND 75 34.0 2.75 3.25 6.00 14.91
15 Eric Moreland, PF DET 67 12.0 -3.00 3.24 0.24 1.68
16 Kyle Anderson, SF SA 74 26.7 -0.15 3.21 3.06 7.71
17 Amir Johnson, C PHI 74 15.8 -1.21 3.14 1.93 3.97
18 Larry Nance Jr., PF CLE/LAL 66 21.5 -0.34 3.04 2.70 5.45
19 Clint Capela, C HOU 74 27.5 -0.60 3.02 2.42 7.18
20 Draymond Green, PF GS 70 32.7 0.84 2.94 3.78 10.58



Now of course the guys on this list that played under like 28 minutes or so can just be left out but cov not only deserved the first team defense but the only one that really has an argument over him is Gobert... Cov is a top 5 defender in basketball.

TheDish87
05-24-2018, 08:41 AM
lol no Cov is not a top 5 defender in basketball let alone on the wing

IndyRealist
05-24-2018, 08:50 AM
The Pacers were not that good of a defensive team, and Oladipo certainly wasn't our stopper. He got a lot of steals, that's it.

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 08:59 AM
lol no Cov is not a top 5 defender in basketball let alone on the wing

literally all the defensive metrics say he is. i guess we ignore them because he isnt a top name or because he isnt a top player?

TheDish87
05-24-2018, 09:13 AM
no ignore them bcuz i watched 99% of games. you are telling me there arent 5 better defenders in the NBA let alone at just the wing? No ****ing shot. He probably had a 2nd team season at best.

Driven
05-24-2018, 09:16 AM
RK NAME TEAM GP MPG ORPM DRPM RPM WINS
1 Rudy Gobert, C UTAH 56 32.4 -1.38 5.13 3.75 7.94
2 Andre Roberson, SG OKC 39 26.6 -2.57 4.45 1.88 3.23
3 Robert Covington, SF PHI 80 31.6 1.25 4.31 5.56 14.50
4 Jusuf Nurkic, C POR 79 26.4 -2.31 4.18 1.87 6.62
5 David West, PF GS 73 13.7 -1.42 4.02 2.60 3.65
6 Anthony Davis, PF NO 75 36.4 1.75 3.80 5.55 15.56
7 Aron Baynes, C BOS 81 18.3 -3.08 3.71 0.63 3.45
8 Hassan Whiteside, C MIA 54 25.3 -2.99 3.60 0.61 3.28
9 Joel Embiid, C PHI 63 30.3 1.42 3.60 5.02 10.03
10 Dejounte Murray, PG SA 81 21.5 -1.93 3.60 1.67 5.26
11 Nene Hilario, C HOU 52 14.6 -0.66 3.53 2.87 2.98
12 Salah Mejri, C DAL 61 12.0 -1.55 3.48 1.93 2.30
13 Ekpe Udoh, C UTAH 63 12.9 -1.38 3.34 1.96 2.60
14 Victor Oladipo, SG IND 75 34.0 2.75 3.25 6.00 14.91
15 Eric Moreland, PF DET 67 12.0 -3.00 3.24 0.24 1.68
16 Kyle Anderson, SF SA 74 26.7 -0.15 3.21 3.06 7.71
17 Amir Johnson, C PHI 74 15.8 -1.21 3.14 1.93 3.97
18 Larry Nance Jr., PF CLE/LAL 66 21.5 -0.34 3.04 2.70 5.45
19 Clint Capela, C HOU 74 27.5 -0.60 3.02 2.42 7.18
20 Draymond Green, PF GS 70 32.7 0.84 2.94 3.78 10.58



Now of course the guys on this list that played under like 28 minutes or so can just be left out but cov not only deserved the first team defense but the only one that really has an argument over him is Gobert... Cov is a top 5 defender in basketball.

So you post a list of 20 players but we're only allowed to use 6 of them?

THE MTL
05-24-2018, 10:10 AM
I think Covington deserved it. The numbers dont lie

warfelg
05-24-2018, 10:21 AM
I think Covington deserved it. The numbers dont lie

Amen.

warfelg
05-24-2018, 10:23 AM
The Pacers were not that good of a defensive team, and Oladipo certainly wasn't our stopper. He got a lot of steals, that's it.

I would agree with this. There always tends to be that one guy that shines defensively in one metric that gets onto the team but was average elsewhere.

warfelg
05-24-2018, 10:25 AM
Coming off the bench works against him. He's a terrific defender, but I don't know that I'd have a valid argument as to why he should be on the team over these other players.

IIRC in the extended votes he missed second team by about 5 points. I actually think what hurt him was missing time and the Cís still being good defensively, two guys seen as potential defensive liabilities coming in and playing well, and Al Horford being great this year.

tredigs
05-24-2018, 10:33 AM
MTM over here using RPM now is ****ing amazing/hilarious. Totally random that it's because in this particular scenario it helps your Sixer I presume.

Ahriman
05-24-2018, 10:46 AM
I don't get how Oladipo got over Butler when Minny was god freaking awful without him

I also never watch NO, is Holiday really a good defender? Seemed to me like he never got that reputation

IndyRealist
05-24-2018, 11:13 AM
I don't get how Oladipo got over Butler when Minny was god freaking awful without him

I also never watch NO, is Holiday really a good defender? Seemed to me like he never got that reputation

Dipo led the league in steals, and had 10% more than #2 (Paul George). I understand how he got it, I just don't agree with it.

mightybosstone
05-24-2018, 11:15 AM
I realize that everyone wants to look for their guys when these lists come out, but I'm obviously disappointed at the lack of Rockets representation for a team who went from a middle of the pack team defensively to one of the top 5-10 squads on defense in the league this season. Capela and Tucker were both deserving, IMO.

But then when I look at the list, I wonder who you take out to add them and it becomes difficult. Is it ridiculous to suggest that we might need an All-Defense 3rd team? We have it for All-NBA already, and the All-Defense teams tend to be a popularity contest more than a fair representation of the league's best defenders sometimes. Adding a third team might actually give credit to guys who are well deserving but get snubbed ever year for superstar players.

warfelg
05-24-2018, 11:33 AM
I realize that everyone wants to look for their guys when these lists come out, but I'm obviously disappointed at the lack of Rockets representation for a team who went from a middle of the pack team defensively to one of the top 5-10 squads on defense in the league this season. Capela and Tucker were both deserving, IMO.

But then when I look at the list, I wonder who you take out to add them and it becomes difficult. Is it ridiculous to suggest that we might need an All-Defense 3rd team? We have it for All-NBA already, and the All-Defense teams tend to be a popularity contest more than a fair representation of the league's best defenders sometimes. Adding a third team might actually give credit to guys who are well deserving but get snubbed ever year for superstar players.

Iím with you on needing a 3rd team All Defense.

Chronz
05-24-2018, 04:25 PM
MTM over here using RPM now is ****ing amazing/hilarious. Totally random that it's because in this particular scenario it helps your Sixer I presume.
True. He never stops ******** on +/-

Chronz
05-24-2018, 04:25 PM
I realize that everyone wants to look for their guys when these lists come out, but I'm obviously disappointed at the lack of Rockets representation for a team who went from a middle of the pack team defensively to one of the top 5-10 squads on defense in the league this season. Capela and Tucker were both deserving, IMO.

But then when I look at the list, I wonder who you take out to add them and it becomes difficult. Is it ridiculous to suggest that we might need an All-Defense 3rd team? We have it for All-NBA already, and the All-Defense teams tend to be a popularity contest more than a fair representation of the league's best defenders sometimes. Adding a third team might actually give credit to guys who are well deserving but get snubbed ever year for superstar players.
So much yes

WestCoastSportz
05-24-2018, 06:12 PM
Its strange how people talk about Klay Thompson being this great defender but he's never on this list. Not even on the second team. I, personally, don't think he's that great of a defender. He gets blown by quite often because of his lack of lateral speed, but he's a good defender on a team that plays a lot of help defense.

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 07:05 PM
MTM over here using RPM now is ****ing amazing/hilarious. Totally random that it's because in this particular scenario it helps your Sixer I presume.


True. He never stops ******** on +/-

A couple of things... I have used DRPM all season and linked it about 900 times in the NBA area when discussing defense and flash and others can back me up on this because i linked it to them when we were engaging in discussion... I am in no way like you Tre that just uses something that fits when its convienent for your argument...

Chronz there is a major major difference in DRPM and plus/minus from an individual game... Tre likes to use OMG lebron is -10 etc... A games Plus/minus is the equivalent of a pitchers wins in baseball.. Its the worst NBA statistic to use by a large margin.

Plus/Minus doesnt factor in how good a player actually is but deludes a players impact depending on the team they have around them and going by that during a game is hilariously awful. DRPM is by far the better approach. Plus/Minus shows that a **** player is great if they are playing with a Durant/Lebron etc just because those guys are balling which is an awful way of evaluating

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 07:16 PM
no ignore them bcuz i watched 99% of games. you are telling me there arent 5 better defenders in the NBA let alone at just the wing? No ****ing shot. He probably had a 2nd team season at best.

Did you watch 99 percent of every other game that took place in basketball to justify your so called eye test? How can you determine that a guy like Cov isn't as great as a guy like PG13 if you haven't watched every game that PG13 was in as well? You watching 99 percent of cov just means you judge his defensive mistakes harsher than a bigger named guy like a PG13 because you watched cov not to mention the bias for when he has bad offensive games where you likely negate the defensive impact. Watching 1 guy much much more than everyone else hurts ones arguments... I have watched embiid all season and gobert just some... By the Eye test i think Embiid does more and plays better defense but with the metrics it isn't even close... My bias of watching a huge block on lowry that wins us the game carries more weight in the eye test than anything gobert has done and its wrong. The eye test is stupid.. Always has been and always will be because unless you watch every single other player just as much what I said above will always reign supreme.

tredigs
05-24-2018, 08:58 PM
A couple of things... I have used DRPM all season and linked it about 900 times in the NBA area when discussing defense and flash and others can back me up on this because i linked it to them when we were engaging in discussion... I am in no way like you Tre that just uses something that fits when its convienent for your argument...

Chronz there is a major major difference in DRPM and plus/minus from an individual game... Tre likes to use OMG lebron is -10 etc... A games Plus/minus is the equivalent of a pitchers wins in baseball.. Its the worst NBA statistic to use by a large margin.

Plus/Minus doesnt factor in how good a player actually is but deludes a players impact depending on the team they have around them and going by that during a game is hilariously awful. DRPM is by far the better approach. Plus/Minus shows that a **** player is great if they are playing with a Durant/Lebron etc just because those guys are balling which is an awful way of evaluating

No, you dunce. Stop bringing up my name and quoting me falsely. I never bring up +/- from a game and extrapolate it to a grander message. This is your simple mind trying to paint a simple picture to something you don't understand, I've seen you write this countless times now. Single game +/- is just a snap-shot that I sometimes look at in conjunction with box-score stats when looking at a single game (it's equally stupid to simply look at something like points for a single game and think it is the end-all). You have to either start A) Understanding/reflecting on what people are saying or B) Stop your lying, if you want people to take you even somewhat seriously.

More-Than-Most
05-24-2018, 11:20 PM
No, you dunce. Stop bringing up my name and quoting me falsely. I never bring up +/- from a game and extrapolate it to a grander message. This is your simple mind trying to paint a simple picture to something you don't understand, I've seen you write this countless times now. Single game +/- is just a snap-shot that I sometimes look at in conjunction with box-score stats when looking at a single game (it's equally stupid to simply look at something like points for a single game and think it is the end-all). You have to either start A) Understanding/reflecting on what people are saying or B) Stop your lying, if you want people to take you even somewhat seriously.

Lol keep trying to cover up your sadness. Whats curry plus/minus tonight? 9000000 MILLION.

TheDish87
05-25-2018, 08:37 AM
Did you watch 99 percent of every other game that took place in basketball to justify your so called eye test? How can you determine that a guy like Cov isn't as great as a guy like PG13 if you haven't watched every game that PG13 was in as well? You watching 99 percent of cov just means you judge his defensive mistakes harsher than a bigger named guy like a PG13 because you watched cov not to mention the bias for when he has bad offensive games where you likely negate the defensive impact. Watching 1 guy much much more than everyone else hurts ones arguments... I have watched embiid all season and gobert just some... By the Eye test i think Embiid does more and plays better defense but with the metrics it isn't even close... My bias of watching a huge block on lowry that wins us the game carries more weight in the eye test than anything gobert has done and its wrong. The eye test is stupid.. Always has been and always will be because unless you watch every single other player just as much what I said above will always reign supreme.

did i compare Cov to anyone? no. Did I mention his offense? no. why are you reaching for things that were never said? the eye test isnt stupid when you watch a player consistently, but you like to run around beating your chest around here any chance you get so im not shocked you are running with this.

mightybosstone
05-25-2018, 09:10 AM
Its strange how people talk about Klay Thompson being this great defender but he's never on this list. Not even on the second team. I, personally, don't think he's that great of a defender. He gets blown by quite often because of his lack of lateral speed, but he's a good defender on a team that plays a lot of help defense.

I was thinking this as well. I think Klay is a really solid defender, but I think people naturally give him a lot more credit on that end than he deserves because he's "a 3 and D guy." On that team, though, he's probably their third or fourth top defender at best behind Draymond, Iggy and maybe Durant (who can be elite when he cares to be).

That's no disrespect to Klay, as I respect him as a two-way player. There's a lot of solid defensive two-way players who never made an all-defensive team. Paul Pierce is a guy who always comes to mind to me. But I don't know how Klay gets lumped into the "elite perimeter defender" conversation.

More-Than-Most
05-25-2018, 07:19 PM
did i compare Cov to anyone? no. Did I mention his offense? no. why are you reaching for things that were never said? the eye test isnt stupid when you watch a player consistently, but you like to run around beating your chest around here any chance you get so im not shocked you are running with this.

What in the ****. Its ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM... Meaning defense better than other players across the league... That means if you are going to justify him not deserving this by you watching his games how the hell do you know he doesnt deserve it if you dont watch the competition 99 percent of the time that he is going against????

FlashBolt
05-26-2018, 11:58 AM
Lol keep trying to cover up your sadness. Whats curry plus/minus tonight? 9000000 MILLION.

Lmao, you're wrecking him so hard with his +/- nonsense. You know why Tre likes +/- so much? Because it's the only stat that makes Curry look better than LeBron at. That's literally the only reason. He's pathetic at this point. He never talks bad about Curry, too. He's probably Riley Curry. I mean, has "he" said anything remotely intelligent lately?