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View Full Version : What Could BOS Get for Kyrie In a Trade?



hugepatsfan
05-13-2018, 09:39 PM
A lot of the Celtics conversations have turned to this and it's an interesting topic so thought I'd make a thread. I'll start by saying I don't think Ainge does it but if he did explore moving Kyrie in anticipation of not wanting to pay him after next season, what could BOS get for him?

People have talked about the SA/Kawhi situation but would they go for it?

PHX, DEN, MIN, NYK, MIA, LAC all had varying degrees of rumored interest last year... would they still have interest this year with only one year left on his deal now?

Could Kyrie be a guy that draws PG13 to LAL and set up a FA pursuit of Leonard next year to complete the rebuild?

Could MIL want him as the long-term partner for Giannis atop the roster?

Does IND like the fit next to Oladipo for a dynamic backcourt pairing?

Ainge has always liked Drummond in DET and he's been in trade talks before.

I know Kyrie is a guy a lot of people would like to see in NO as the outside scorer to compliment AD thought they lack tradable pieces unless Ainge likes Cousins (reports were that he didn't think he's a winning player at the time of the SAC/NO trade).

IDK. Like I said, I don't think BOS will trade KI and I think he's going to be a huge addition to get him back. But it seems like an interesting enough discussion to hold.

Scoots
05-13-2018, 09:53 PM
Or trade Rozier.

hugepatsfan
05-13-2018, 10:01 PM
Or trade Rozier.

Definitely a possibility. If they do keep Kyrie with intention I wonder if they'd trade Rozier to cash in or keep him as an insurance for a year in case of Kyrie injury or bad fit issues. It's not like Rozier can't play off guard too so keeping them both could be a possibility, though that'd be a big payroll strain.

Regardless, I just think Kyrie trade proposals will make for a fun discussion here.

tredigs
05-13-2018, 10:05 PM
The Celtics are living that blessed EC playoff life right now, but trust me when the real post-season begins (IE When you play a Western Conference Team), you WILL understand the worth of Kyrie. A fearless/efficient/dominant ISO scorer is invaluable late in a tight series when everything grinds to a halt. He won Lebron a ring in Cleveland because of it.

More-Than-Most
05-13-2018, 10:06 PM
would john wall be a more ideal fit? Washington needs to do something and wall is a better defender/passer but he is a far worse shooter/chucker.

KL is the prize.

Cavs honestly should have offered Kyrie up for porz when they had the chance. It would probably have taken more but who knows.

More-Than-Most
05-13-2018, 10:08 PM
A lot of the Celtics conversations have turned to this and it's an interesting topic so thought I'd make a thread. I'll start by saying I don't think Ainge does it but if he did explore moving Kyrie in anticipation of not wanting to pay him after next season, what could BOS get for him?

People have talked about the SA/Kawhi situation but would they go for it?

PHX, DEN, MIN, NYK, MIA, LAC all had varying degrees of rumored interest last year... would they still have interest this year with only one year left on his deal now?

Could Kyrie be a guy that draws PG13 to LAL and set up a FA pursuit of Leonard next year to complete the rebuild?

Could MIL want him as the long-term partner for Giannis atop the roster?

Does IND like the fit next to Oladipo for a dynamic backcourt pairing?

Ainge has always liked Drummond in DET and he's been in trade talks before.

I know Kyrie is a guy a lot of people would like to see in NO as the outside scorer to compliment AD thought they lack tradable pieces unless Ainge likes Cousins (reports were that he didn't think he's a winning player at the time of the SAC/NO trade).

IDK. Like I said, I don't think BOS will trade KI and I think he's going to be a huge addition to get him back. But it seems like an interesting enough discussion to hold.

cousins/washington/celtics 3 team trade : )


Some type of package of Kyrie going to the pelicans and cousins going to washing and the celtics getting either Wall or BB... Thinking about this honestly hurts my head

PAOboston
05-13-2018, 10:22 PM
would john wall be a more ideal fit? Washington needs to do something and wall is a better defender/passer but he is a far worse shooter/chucker.

KL is the prize.

Cavs honestly should have offered Kyrie up for porz when they had the chance. It would probably have taken more but who knows.Wall is a loser and basically anti everything the C's stand for.

Irving isn't getting traded. And barring his knee really falling off, he's going to get an extension and be on Boston through his prime years.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

JordansBulls
05-13-2018, 10:23 PM
The Celtics are living that blessed EC playoff life right now, but trust me when the real post-season begins (IE When you play a Western Conference Team), you WILL understand the worth of Kyrie. A fearless/efficient/dominant ISO scorer is invaluable late in a tight series when everything grinds to a halt. He won Lebron a ring in Cleveland because of it.
Agreed he carried the Cavs and outplayed Steph in that series in 2016. It was the reason they won including the Draymond suspension.

flea
05-13-2018, 10:25 PM
If you have a player like Irving and he wants to be there you don't trade him period.

tredigs
05-13-2018, 10:29 PM
Agreed he carried the Cavs and outplayed Steph in that series in 2016. It was the reason they won including the Draymond suspension.

Sadly this is (somewhat shortsighted but...) correct.

Jeffy25
05-13-2018, 10:48 PM
Agreed he carried the Cavs and outplayed Steph in that series in 2016. It was the reason they won including the Draymond suspension.

It's kind of incredible that the Finals MVP who posted a 29.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 8.9 APG with 2.6 steals and 2.3 blocks is ignored in your post. All in your continued attempts to protect Jordan.

JordansBulls
05-13-2018, 11:01 PM
It's kind of incredible that the Finals MVP who posted a 29.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 8.9 APG with 2.6 steals and 2.3 blocks is ignored in your post. All in your continued attempts to protect Jordan.

Oh so now the individual award matters to you. So now you recogize winning bronze medal in the olympics is a big deal with peak Tim Duncan on the team. Or how about joining forces with Shaq the allstar game mvp winner the year before they joined forces. Or Ben Wallace the only allstar on a team that won the title. Or Deron Williams. Also had Derrick Rose as well. Cavs getting Derrick Rose was like the Warriors getting Kevin Durant, both teams getting a league mvp winner under 30 years of age.

BTW I don't have to protect Jordan. He chose his own number, Lebron copied numbers of other greats because he didn't have a mind of his own.

Why didn't he pick number 27 for instance?

IndyRealist
05-13-2018, 11:07 PM
Indiana has one of the best value starting PGs in Darren Collison who doesn't detract from Oladipo. We also have MANY other areas we need to shore up before we start thinking about replacing good players.

mrblisterdundee
05-13-2018, 11:10 PM
I doubt Ainge will make the same mistake as Cleveland, and I don't see a trade in which Boston can get better.
Theoretically, if Boston thought they could go with Rozier at point guard, I could see Kyrie for Butler being OK for both sides. Butler's not the scorer Kyrie is, but he's way better on defense. Put him out there with Horford, Smart, Tatum and Brown, and the Celtics have the most wicked defensive lineup in the league.

hugepatsfan
05-13-2018, 11:18 PM
Indiana has one of the best value starting PGs in Darren Collison who doesn't detract from Oladipo. We also have MANY other areas we need to shore up before we start thinking about replacing good players.

If IND wants to seriously push for a title their big picture need is more all stars. If youíre talking about which position to use their $10M or so of cap space on than yeah, they should have other priorities. But if an all star like Kyrie is available that goes out the window because at the end of the day you need multiple of those players. Even if it isnít an ideal fit for the current roster you just get the star and make the supporting pieces work with other moves.

The Oladipo/Irving potential clash of styles is a legit reason to pass because your multiple stars have to mesh. But ďwe have a cost effective Darren CollisonĒ should NEVER be a reason youíd pass on an all star.

Thatís why Ainge wonít deal Kyrie unless another all star is coming back IMO. But enough people brought it up that I thought itíd be a fun discussion.

Jeffy25
05-13-2018, 11:20 PM
Oh so now the individual award matters to you. So now you recogize winning bronze medal in the olympics is a big deal with peak Tim Duncan on the team.
You just credited Duncan in your earlier post, now he's not good enough to carry 19 year old LeBron James, averaging 8 minutes a game?



Or how about joining forces with Shaq the allstar game mvp winner the year before they joined forces.

Hahah


Or Ben Wallace the only allstar on a team that won the title. Or Deron Williams. Also had Derrick Rose as well. Cavs getting Derrick Rose was like the Warriors getting Kevin Durant, both teams getting a league mvp winner under 30 years of age.

BTW I don't have to protect Jordan. He chose his own number, Lebron copied numbers of other greats because he didn't have a mind of his own.

Why didn't he pick number 27 for instance?
I don't think you actually believe your trolling attempts.

hugepatsfan
05-13-2018, 11:24 PM
Oh so now the individual award matters to you. So now you recogize winning bronze medal in the olympics is a big deal with peak Tim Duncan on the team. Or how about joining forces with Shaq the allstar game mvp winner the year before they joined forces. Or Ben Wallace the only allstar on a team that won the title. Or Deron Williams. Also had Derrick Rose as well. Cavs getting Derrick Rose was like the Warriors getting Kevin Durant, both teams getting a league mvp winner under 30 years of age.

BTW I don't have to protect Jordan. He chose his own number, Lebron copied numbers of other greats because he didn't have a mind of his own.

Why didn't he pick number 27 for instance?

How ****ing dare you come into my thread comparing this years D Rose to Durant. Iíve never felt so disrespected in my life.

More-Than-Most
05-13-2018, 11:33 PM
How ****ing dare you come into my thread comparing this years D Rose to Durant. Iíve never felt so disrespected in my life.

:laugh:

he has become so bad man

AntiG
05-13-2018, 11:39 PM
cousins/washington/celtics 3 team trade : )


Some type of package of Kyrie going to the pelicans and cousins going to washing and the celtics getting either Wall or BB... Thinking about this honestly hurts my head

that makes no sense whatsoever for the C's though. The whole point of trading Kyrie is that Rozier is ready to take over as the full-time starter for the team, and that Kyrie could potentially get you a top 5 draft pick OR young stud big man in return (AD, Cousins, Drummond, Griffin, Porzingis, etc), so it obviously won't be for Wall of all players.

missionh1llpart
05-13-2018, 11:55 PM
Celtics shouldn't trade Kyrie or Rozier. Marcus Smart is a free agent after the playoffs and I think he could get some nice offers, offers for more than he's worth. While he's awesome on defense, I wince everytime I see him spot up for 3. He's just not a very good shooter overall, and it would make sense to give Rozier the minutes Smart would usually have if a team gives Marcus too high of an offer. Having Brown, Kyrie and Rozier split minutes in the back court would make a lot of sense. It will be contract years for both Kyrie and Rozier, so it will be better to evaluate then who's actually worth paying the big bucks to.

More-Than-Most
05-14-2018, 12:17 AM
that makes no sense whatsoever for the C's though. The whole point of trading Kyrie is that Rozier is ready to take over as the full-time starter for the team, and that Kyrie could potentially get you a top 5 draft pick OR young stud big man in return (AD, Cousins, Drummond, Griffin, Porzingis, etc), so it obviously won't be for Wall of all players.

getting a defensive PG that is a better everything except shooter on a team that loves defense/ball movement and has shooters makes no sense?

Saddletramp
05-14-2018, 02:51 AM
It's kind of incredible that the Finals MVP who posted a 29.7 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 8.9 APG with 2.6 steals and 2.3 blocks is ignored in your post. All in your continued attempts to protect Jordan.

And he was agreeing with the guy that got shook from that series so he takes every jab possible (unwarranted or not). Not sure which is more pathetic.*



Whoís kiddiní who? Of course I do.

Cal827
05-14-2018, 03:08 AM
If they do choose to try to move Irving, I'm sure they can screw over Phoenix for the next decade when it comes to draft pick acquisition from them.

I mean if Sarver will accept money for top 10 picks, I'm sure they can get picks/pick swaps with Phoenix for the next decade for Irving's one year there.

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 07:51 AM
They wouldn't get fair value back. Dealing top 15-20 NBA players never yields a fair return. Just ask CLE. Pop said something similar to Aldridge last season when he wanted to get traded. Essentially telling him "Listen, I'd love to trade you and make you happy and if you bring back a player of equal value I'll drive you to the airport, but that's not going to happen". It's exactly why SAS won't trade Kawhi this offseason. They'll work it out however they need to.

The only thing here is the knee. If Danny doesn't feel like KI can return 100% he may explore dealing him and take whatever value he can get. I think this is unlikely. Many are speculating that KI's injury could be career threatening, but at this point I think that's a very premature judgment.

IndyRealist
05-14-2018, 08:46 AM
If IND wants to seriously push for a title their big picture need is more all stars. If youíre talking about which position to use their $10M or so of cap space on than yeah, they should have other priorities. But if an all star like Kyrie is available that goes out the window because at the end of the day you need multiple of those players. Even if it isnít an ideal fit for the current roster you just get the star and make the supporting pieces work with other moves.

The Oladipo/Irving potential clash of styles is a legit reason to pass because your multiple stars have to mesh. But ďwe have a cost effective Darren CollisonĒ should NEVER be a reason youíd pass on an all star.

Thatís why Ainge wonít deal Kyrie unless another all star is coming back IMO. But enough people brought it up that I thought itíd be a fun discussion.
There are two ways you can improve. You can replace mediocre players with good players, or good players with great players. We have several mediocre players in the rotation, so the most improvement can be seen quickest by replacing them with good players. The marginal value of Irving over Collison is not worth the salary difference for a small market, former ABA team that loses a percentage of it's TV revenue in perpetuity. And it's not like it'll be a 1 for 1 trade. Indy would be losing multiple rotation players and picks to land Irving. Yes you need 2 all-stars minimum. Irving is not the one I'd get.

R. Johnson#3
05-14-2018, 08:55 AM
Kyrie bought into Stevens system and played great basketball up until he got hurt. Yes, Rozier has been great but you donít trade Kyrie because of that. That would be ********.

warfelg
05-14-2018, 09:06 AM
I think your talking a very uphill battle to move Kyrie for anything than pennies on the dollar at this point.

1- Iíve been saying it all year, Kyries injuries puts him on the clock. Youíve got a limited window with him. Knee injuries like his donít suddenly reverse course.

2- You would be trading him coming off the injury. Thatís an added layer of difficulty in getting anything in return.

3- The Cís have played great without him. Yea Cleveland took a step back, but there will be some GMs that question his level of importance with that.

4- Possible contract matching if you trade with a team without cap space.

In the end I file this under the easier said than done.

warfelg
05-14-2018, 09:07 AM
Kyrie bought into Stevens system and played great basketball up until he got hurt. Yes, Rozier has been great but you donít trade Kyrie because of that. That would be ********.

We said the same thing with IT and playing hurt and after his sister died. Ainge doesnít care.

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 09:12 AM
We said the same thing with IT and playing hurt and after his sister died. Ainge doesnít care.

Different scenarios. IT was hurt. IT didn't shut up all season long about wanting a max despite being a player that shouldn't get a max. Ainge was able to trade IT for a huge upgrade.

Kyrie is also hurt but the situation is completely different. I have serious doubts Ainge would even entertain the idea of trading Kyrie unless someone like SAS came to him and was talking about Kawhi (or a similar type player)

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 09:17 AM
I think your talking a very uphill battle to move Kyrie for anything than pennies on the dollar at this point.

True but this has less to do with KI and more to do with how Super Star trades work. Teams never get full value for Super Stars.


1- Iíve been saying it all year, Kyries injuries puts him on the clock. Youíve got a limited window with him. Knee injuries like his donít suddenly reverse course.

It's certainly not ideal. But I think it's premature to think KI doesn't have at least 5 more good years in him.


2- You would be trading him coming off the injury. Thatís an added layer of difficulty in getting anything in return.

It does, but it's not insurmountable. IT was traded coming of injury and got a great return. Only takes 1 desperate team to make the deal.



In the end I file this under the easier said than done.

In the end, it really just comes down to...You don't trade super stars when you're on the brink of contending. You just don't. You trade players like KI when you're in a situation similar to Toronto where you're good but no avenue to get to great as currently constructed. Then you tear down and collect assets.

Ainge will wait a year. See how KI comes back. See if Rozier can maintain his level of improvement. And in 2019 make a decision.

warfelg
05-14-2018, 09:36 AM
Different scenarios. IT was hurt. IT didn't shut up all season long about wanting a max despite being a player that shouldn't get a max. Ainge was able to trade IT for a huge upgrade.

Kyrie is also hurt but the situation is completely different. I have serious doubts Ainge would even entertain the idea of trading Kyrie unless someone like SAS came to him and was talking about Kawhi (or a similar type player)

I mean thatís not really what Iím talking about :shrug: He asked would Ainge really try to trade an injured player...heís done it before. Whatís to stop him from doing it again.

warfelg
05-14-2018, 09:42 AM
True but this has less to do with KI and more to do with how Super Star trades work. Teams never get full value for Super Stars.



It's certainly not ideal. But I think it's premature to think KI doesn't have at least 5 more good years in him.



It does, but it's not insurmountable. IT was traded coming of injury and got a great return. Only takes 1 desperate team to make the deal.



In the end, it really just comes down to...You don't trade super stars when you're on the brink of contending. You just don't. You trade players like KI when you're in a situation similar to Toronto where you're good but no avenue to get to great as currently constructed. Then you tear down and collect assets.

Ainge will wait a year. See how KI comes back. See if Rozier can maintain his level of improvement. And in 2019 make a decision.

Not really. Because then Rozier hits RFA and Kyrie has his player option.

I think your downplaying how hard it is to move him. Remove the superstar part from the equation. 26 year old PG with consistent knee issues whoís missed time due to injury 6 different times to the same knee. Especially when two of those times are knee tendinitis, a fractured knee cap, and now surgery to correct issues from that fracture. Tends to miss time and parts of games with the knee tightening up and becoming sore. Thatís a hard sell. Even harder when itís a guy you could be staking your franchise on.

warfelg
05-14-2018, 09:46 AM
Thereís an article on Boston.com (https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/03/26/kyrie-irving-knee-injury-surgery-update) that highlights the history of Kyries knee problems. It started with some unidentified trigger moment the lead to the knee cap breaking. Thatís a problem.

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 09:48 AM
I mean thatís not really what Iím talking about :shrug: He asked would Ainge really try to trade an injured player...heís done it before. Whatís to stop him from doing it again.

Right but all players aren't created equally. Would he trade an injured player? Yeah, anyone would. Would he trade an injured Super Star...Not so fast.

R. Johnson#3
05-14-2018, 09:49 AM
We said the same thing with IT and playing hurt and after his sister died. Ainge doesnít care.

And IT was moved for a player who is better than he. We got people on here saying trade Kyrie for a lottery pick ffs!

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 09:50 AM
Not really. Because then Rozier hits RFA and Kyrie has his player option.

I think your downplaying how hard it is to move him. Remove the superstar part from the equation. 26 year old PG with consistent knee issues whoís missed time due to injury 6 different times to the same knee. Especially when two of those times are knee tendinitis, a fractured knee cap, and now surgery to correct issues from that fracture. Tends to miss time and parts of games with the knee tightening up and becoming sore. Thatís a hard sell. Even harder when itís a guy you could be staking your franchise on.

Even if they're both Free Agents, Danny has options.

Rozier is an RFA so he can match any offer and keep him. Or S&T. He could S&T Kyrie. He could re-sign both. He could S&T both. Options are still on the table. There's no need to rush this situation and sell low on Kyrie. Wait and see how he comes back and how Rozier continues to progress. Trading either this offseason would be premature...Unless like I said, someone comes in and blows Danny away with an offer.

Danny isn't going to sell for pennies on the dollar to resolve the issue a year early. He'll wait. If someone wants to give him fair value...He'd absolutely consider it.

Chronz
05-14-2018, 11:19 AM
Keep kyrie far away from the clippers

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 12:07 PM
Thereís an article on Boston.com (https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/03/26/kyrie-irving-knee-injury-surgery-update) that highlights the history of Kyries knee problems. It started with some unidentified trigger moment the lead to the knee cap breaking. Thatís a problem.

It could be a problem. It could not be. It's premature to say anything right now as I've stated. Danny isn't going to rush to judgment. He will see how Irving returns before selling low on him.

ďThe wire was originally placed as part of the surgical repair of a fractured patella sustained during the 2015 NBA Finals. While removal of the wire should relieve irritation it was causing in Irvingís patellar tendon, the fractured patella has fully healed and Irvingís knee has been found to be completely structurally sound.íí
- From the article

warfelg
05-14-2018, 12:21 PM
Thatís not the part that will worry teams. Itís the tendinitis. Almost every time this topic comes up you post a similar quote and donít make a comment on tendinitis, which has very very rarely ended well for basketball players.

AntiG
05-14-2018, 12:24 PM
getting a defensive PG that is a better everything except shooter on a team that loves defense/ball movement and has shooters makes no sense?

no, because the whole point of trading Kyrie is that the C's are ready to have Rozier step up as the full-time starter and they want to take advantage of the fact that Kyrie is a star PG that could net them a star big man that fits in the system or assets that can help them acquire a star big man.

Oakmont_4
05-14-2018, 12:31 PM
Thatís not the part that will worry teams. Itís the tendinitis. Almost every time this topic comes up you post a similar quote and donít make a comment on tendinitis, which has very very rarely ended well for basketball players.

My quote was from the article you posted. Haha

Tendinitis it a concern but more long term concern than short term. It will end a players career early. I've never though Kyrie would be one to play into his mid 30's at a high level. But he's still a long ways away from there age wise.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
05-14-2018, 04:51 PM
Bucks had Middleton,Brogdon, and a first for Irving before Ainge swooped in and completed the deal. Bucks were front runners till Ainge dangled the Nets pick. Even though like I said then and now #8 is meh. As for now i'd pass on Irving. His bad knee. Meh.

WestCoastSportz
05-14-2018, 05:48 PM
I don't think they should trade Kyrie. Kyrie and Rozier are similar players. Kyrie is just better so he does make this team better. The big question is, what should they do with Hayward. Tatum has played his way into near stardom and it would be ridiculous to put him on the bench next season. Its just as ridiculous to have your highest paid player come off the bench in Hayward. Or do you move Tatum to the PF and have Gordon in as the SF with Morris off the bench?

warfelg
05-14-2018, 06:36 PM
I don't think they should trade Kyrie. Kyrie and Rozier are similar players. Kyrie is just better so he does make this team better. The big question is, what should they do with Hayward. Tatum has played his way into near stardom and it would be ridiculous to put him on the bench next season. Its just as ridiculous to have your highest paid player come off the bench in Hayward. Or do you move Tatum to the PF and have Gordon in as the SF with Morris off the bench?

Yes thatís what you do.

Irving
Brown
Heyward
Tatum
Horford

If you need the extra beef to start a game Tatum becomes the 6th man and let him feast on bench players.

hugepatsfan
05-14-2018, 08:47 PM
There are two ways you can improve. You can replace mediocre players with good players, or good players with great players. We have several mediocre players in the rotation, so the most improvement can be seen quickest by replacing them with good players. The marginal value of Irving over Collison is not worth the salary difference for a small market, former ABA team that loses a percentage of it's TV revenue in perpetuity. And it's not like it'll be a 1 for 1 trade. Indy would be losing multiple rotation players and picks to land Irving. Yes you need 2 all-stars minimum. Irving is not the one I'd get.

Yeah, I understand that Kyrie would be an imperfect add for IND. But all stars are really tough to find. IND is in the spot where the core is solid. Big picture what's stopping them from competing isn't replacing mediocre players with good or solid ones. The lack of great players is their real detriment. So I think you guys should be in on any all star that comes available regardless of position. You can shuffle the mediocre/good players around. Just like this past offseason where you moved Miles for Joseph. You can always make that type of trade later.

Even an imperfect fit... man, it's just tough to land all stars. Beggers can't be choosers sometimes, ya know. I don't think Ainge will move Kyrie so it's kind of a moot point here but just in general I think IND needs to turn over all the stones trying to get another all star or two.

Chronz
05-14-2018, 09:53 PM
Both teams made the conference finals without him. He's not as good as many pretend

ewing
05-14-2018, 10:16 PM
Both teams made the conference finals without him. He's not as good as many pretend

Thatís bc Al Hartford is better then Chris Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ishkabibble
05-15-2018, 12:24 AM
Thatís not the part that will worry teams. Itís the tendinitis. Almost every time this topic comes up you post a similar quote and donít make a comment on tendinitis, which has very very rarely ended well for basketball players.

You're literally starting to sound like you're rooting for Irving's career to have a premature end. If the patella is fully healed then you move on to tendinitis. We get it; his leg is falling off.
And he'll come back next year and ball out like he does every season.

Chronz
05-15-2018, 12:37 AM
Thatís bc Al Hartford is better then Chris Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Said no one ever but the small contingency of fans dumb enough to cheer for ewing

IndyRealist
05-15-2018, 08:21 AM
You're literally starting to sound like you're rooting for Irving's career to have a premature end. If the patella is fully healed then you move on to tendinitis. We get it; his leg is falling off.
And he'll come back next year and ball out like he does every season.

Not really. Acknowledging the risk is not same as rooting against him. Value assessments are brutal, and you can bet that any team trading for Irving is going to use his injuries to get a better deal.

warfelg
05-15-2018, 08:29 AM
Not really. Acknowledging the risk is not same as rooting against him. Value assessments are brutal, and you can bet that any team trading for Irving is going to use his injuries to get a better deal.

This. LOL. I can't believe that needed explaining.

****, I would say the same thing about if the Sixers tried to trade Embiid. Memphis tries to trade Parsons. Why do people think LAC got a bad return for Griffin? Has little to do with the contract, and more to do with the fact the Griffin can't stay healthy.

When you have health issues, there's always a risk in having that player on your team.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2018, 09:01 AM
This. LOL. I can't believe that needed explaining.

****, I would say the same thing about if the Sixers tried to trade Embiid. Memphis tries to trade Parsons. Why do people think LAC got a bad return for Griffin? Has little to do with the contract, and more to do with the fact the Griffin can't stay healthy.

When you have health issues, there's always a risk in having that player on your team.

Right, but nobodies arguing the risk part. There's always risk when handing out a MAX and generally that risk is some sort of injury. Most players on a MAX have some sort of injury history.

The point is you don't trade these guys because of that risk unless you're rebuilding. So to your point and examples. Blake was traded to enter a rebuild. Once CP3 left and the team had failed in what? 3-4 consecutive seasons to really advance in the playoffs the LAC decided to rebuild - thus trading Blake.

The 76ers aren't rebuilding hence they won't trade Embiid. Just as the Celtics won't trade Kyrie.

The risk/reward of what these players can bring to a contender far outweighs the pennies they'd receive in a trade.

Heediot
05-15-2018, 09:17 AM
Kyrie might get you less then what the Cavs got, relatively (Cavs funked up that trade) when people thought Cleveland got a good deal. Teams will be wondering why is this guy bei ng traded? He also has a year less on his contract. His knees are a question mark, and will he commit long term? I think you'll get something close a cousins trade. A prospect and a lotto pick with Salary Filler/Expirings.

tp13baby
05-15-2018, 09:23 AM
The Celtics are living that blessed EC playoff life right now, but trust me when the real post-season begins (IE When you play a Western Conference Team), you WILL understand the worth of Kyrie. A fearless/efficient/dominant ISO scorer is invaluable late in a tight series when everything grinds to a halt. He won Lebron a ring in Cleveland because of it.

This. Why not build the best team to win a ship. Itís great and all to get assets but you need Kyrie you need Gordon to have a chance. The championship is being played right now in the WCF.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2018, 09:54 AM
Kyrie might get you less then what the Cavs got, relatively (Cavs funked up that trade) when people thought Cleveland got a good deal. Teams will be wondering why is this guy bei ng traded? He also has a year less on his contract. His knees are a question mark, and will he commit long term? I think you'll get something close a cousins trade. A prospect and a lotto pick with Salary Filler/Expirings.

Exactly why keeping him makes the most sense. If he's healthy you're getting an All Star. Tendinitis isn't going to keep him from returning to form next year or the year after...It's one of those problematic injuries that cut careers short. Kyrie still has a way to go before he reaches that point.

What he gives you on the court right now far outweighs a prospect, pick and filler contract.

warfelg
05-15-2018, 10:01 AM
Right, but nobodies arguing the risk part. There's always risk when handing out a MAX and generally that risk is some sort of injury. Most players on a MAX have some sort of injury history.

The point is you don't trade these guys because of that risk unless you're rebuilding. So to your point and examples. Blake was traded to enter a rebuild. Once CP3 left and the team had failed in what? 3-4 consecutive seasons to really advance in the playoffs the LAC decided to rebuild - thus trading Blake.

The 76ers aren't rebuilding hence they won't trade Embiid. Just as the Celtics won't trade Kyrie.

The risk/reward of what these players can bring to a contender far outweighs the pennies they'd receive in a trade.

You keep missing my point to keep saying they wonít trade him. So pay attention:

What other teams would be willing to give up for Kyrie, coming off this surgery knowing the knee is a highly likely long term issue, would not be that big.

Itís not a matter of if or if not Ainge wants to trade him. Itís a matter of how much would a team be willing to give up for him.

And my guess is not enough to make it worth it to that other team.

Ishkabibble
05-15-2018, 12:14 PM
You keep missing my point to keep saying they wonít trade him. So pay attention:

What other teams would be willing to give up for Kyrie, coming off this surgery knowing the knee is a highly likely long term issue, would not be that big.

Itís not a matter of if or if not Ainge wants to trade him. Itís a matter of how much would a team be willing to give up for him.

And my guess is not enough to make it worth it to that other team.

Fair enough.
As it was, Blake Griffin (and a couple stiffs) still brought back Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley and a 2018 #1 from Detroit. So he wasn't exactly dealt for nothing. And he's also due $140M thru 2022 which Pistons owner Tom Gores was still willing to pick up. Point is dealing for high profile players means something to a fan base as well. And Irving definitely has a ring, a name and plays some damn entertaining basketball. Will teams likely nit pick over Irving's value? Sure but that's to be expected. And when dealing with Ainge, likely even more so.
The tendinitis concerns are valid and could be an issue down the road but his patella appears to be fully healed and fine. And let's face it, he turned 26 a month ago and still could have plenty of quality ball ahead of him. First let's see if Kyrie struggles next season. If he's playing like he did in 2017-18 season he'll...uh...likely be worth more than a back-up Center and a 2nd round pick.

Oakmont_4
05-15-2018, 01:56 PM
You keep missing my point to keep saying they wonít trade him. So pay attention:

What other teams would be willing to give up for Kyrie, coming off this surgery knowing the knee is a highly likely long term issue, would not be that big.

Itís not a matter of if or if not Ainge wants to trade him. Itís a matter of how much would a team be willing to give up for him.

And my guess is not enough to make it worth it to that other team.

Right and I never argued against that. I've actually agreed with it on multiple occasions.

This all started with YOUR comment of


I mean thatís not really what Iím talking about He asked would Ainge really try to trade an injured player...heís done it before. Whatís to stop him from doing it again.

So to make that statement and now say


Itís not a matter of if or if not Ainge wants to trade him. Itís a matter of how much would a team be willing to give up for him.

suggests your changing your argument. Or just arguing just to argue. Or you forgot your original point.

Either way, I pay attention just fine.

My point still stands. Danny WONT trade him because he WONT get fair return. Therefore it's a pointless discussion. As we both agreed, he's devalued right now. Any good GM Sells high and buys low. Not sell low and buy high. Which trading Kyrie right now would be doing.

Danny traded IT in the past who was injured but he yielded an even higher return. So it was a good move. And again, my original point, the only way Danny would trade an injured Kyrie is if a similar situation came up. If a team was willing to trade a better or equal player in return. Which, again, we both agree is highly unlikely.

Jamiecballer
05-16-2018, 05:34 PM
I think Ainge will trade kyrie, but he's a smart guy he's going to wait for more favorable circumstances. By more favorable I mean he will be playing, producing and people will have forgotten that Boston looks at their best without him.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

WestCoastSportz
05-16-2018, 06:13 PM
I'm no Kyrie fan, but lets not overlook what he did. I'm not sure Boston would have even been the #1 seed if they didn't have Irving. There was a point when Kyrie helped lead this team to 10 straight wins. He then missed two games and came back to help them to another winning streak of 5, including a win against the Warriors. He's also still only 26 years old, so I think there would be a team willing to give up quite a bit to have him. Rozier has played well, but I don't think he played well enough to replace Kyrie. If I were the Celtics, I would keep Kyrie and look to move Hayward, who probably won't bring them back much. There is a chance they may lose Marcus Smart. If a team comes in and offers him more than $15M a year, there's no way the Celtics can match that. Greg Monroe will also be gone too along with Baynes. This team needs some depth.

Oakmont_4
05-16-2018, 06:28 PM
I'm no Kyrie fan, but lets not overlook what he did. I'm not sure Boston would have even been the #1 seed if they didn't have Irving. There was a point when Kyrie helped lead this team to 10 straight wins. He then missed two games and came back to help them to another winning streak of 5, including a win against the Warriors. He's also still only 26 years old, so I think there would be a team willing to give up quite a bit to have him. Rozier has played well, but I don't think he played well enough to replace Kyrie. If I were the Celtics, I would keep Kyrie and look to move Hayward, who probably won't bring them back much. There is a chance they may lose Marcus Smart. If a team comes in and offers him more than $15M a year, there's no way the Celtics can match that. Greg Monroe will also be gone too along with Baynes. This team needs some depth.

Monroe is likely gone, he's not a great fit here. He just can't play defense to the level needed to get consistent minutes. He's not a big loss, he's hardly played for us.

Baynes in all likelihood will be back. Can't see why they would let him walk unless a team is offering him $10mil. We'll be over the cap and can use an exception to bring him back at 120% of his current deal. He's making $5M so we can pay him over $6M next year to retain him. That's a good paycheck for Baynes and he's a great fit here. I'd honestly be shocked if he wasn't back.

Smart is less likely to return than anyone else, but I do think he comes back. He's a RFA so we can match any contract he's offered and I think we would match any offer up to $15-16M. Anything over that would just be crazy. But again, we're over the cap and have his bird rights so we can pay him whatever it takes to bring him back. Letting him walk for nothing doesn't seem wise. We can conceivably re-sign Smart, Baynes and Larkin, let Monroe walk and trade Morris and stay under the luxury tax next year.

Luxury tax is $123M. I ran the numbers and we can essentially role out the following for $122M

PG Irving/Smart/Rozier/Larken
SG Hayward/Brown
SF Brown/Ojeleye
PF Tatum/Theis
C Horford/Baynes

Plus our first round pick (#27) and 2 rookie minimum contracts.

In all likelihood this is the direction we go. No need to shake up a team that's in the ECF, possibly the finals and returning 2 All Stars to that roster.

WestCoastSportz
05-17-2018, 12:44 PM
Luxury tax is $123M. I ran the numbers and we can essentially role out the following for $122M

PG Irving/Smart/Rozier/Larken
SG Hayward/Brown
SF Brown/Ojeleye
PF Tatum/Theis
C Horford/Baynes

Plus our first round pick (#27) and 2 rookie minimum contracts.

In all likelihood this is the direction we go. No need to shake up a team that's in the ECF, possibly the finals and returning 2 All Stars to that roster.

If they happen to bring back all their players, I can see them running a small ball line up. Morris has been at the 4 so moving Tatum into that spot makes sense. Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford is a pretty good line up.

Super.
05-17-2018, 01:56 PM
How ****ing dare you come into my thread comparing this years D Rose to Durant. Iíve never felt so disrespected in my life.

Its JordansBulls what do you expect

CELTICS4LYFE
05-19-2018, 05:05 PM
Monroe is likely gone, he's not a great fit here. He just can't play defense to the level needed to get consistent minutes. He's not a big loss, he's hardly played for us.

Baynes in all likelihood will be back. Can't see why they would let him walk unless a team is offering him $10mil. We'll be over the cap and can use an exception to bring him back at 120% of his current deal. He's making $5M so we can pay him over $6M next year to retain him. That's a good paycheck for Baynes and he's a great fit here. I'd honestly be shocked if he wasn't back.

Smart is less likely to return than anyone else, but I do think he comes back. He's a RFA so we can match any contract he's offered and I think we would match any offer up to $15-16M. Anything over that would just be crazy. But again, we're over the cap and have his bird rights so we can pay him whatever it takes to bring him back. Letting him walk for nothing doesn't seem wise. We can conceivably re-sign Smart, Baynes and Larkin, let Monroe walk and trade Morris and stay under the luxury tax next year.

Luxury tax is $123M. I ran the numbers and we can essentially role out the following for $122M

PG Irving/Smart/Rozier/Larken
SG Hayward/Brown
SF Brown/Ojeleye
PF Tatum/Theis
C Horford/Baynes

Plus our first round pick (#27) and 2 rookie minimum contracts.

In all likelihood this is the direction we go. No need to shake up a team that's in the ECF, possibly the finals and returning 2 All Stars to that roster.

Rather keep Morris and get rid of Larkin and Semi