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Vee-Rex
05-11-2018, 11:33 AM
994961105809235968

http://i.imgur.com/TTs3XoZ.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/tG0INzJZ20eY/giphy.gif

warfelg
05-11-2018, 11:33 AM
994961105809235968

Cal827
05-11-2018, 11:43 AM
:dance:

Cal827
05-11-2018, 11:44 AM
I know there's two threads open, but seeing that Rex posted this, I came here for the Gifs:

:dance:

Cal827
05-11-2018, 11:47 AM
Casey should be recognized for what he's done with the franchise when he first came here (we had just lost 60 games) and where the team is now (a consistent playoff team), but the inability to deliver in the playoffs, mainly, the regression in competitiveness in the 3 Cavs eliminations, spell his end in Toronto. Didn't help that his mistakes in this series were more exposed than ever (that's probably due to Cleveland's roster not being as talented as Toronto's as a whole (minus Lebron of course who's miles better :laugh2: ) but still able to be potent against them.

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 11:56 AM
whoa. color me stunned. pretty big set of balls on Masai. hopefully he goes for Stackhouse, i like his swagger for this swagger-less bunch.

tp13baby
05-11-2018, 11:58 AM
whoa. color me stunned. pretty big set of balls on Masai. hopefully he goes for Stackhouse, i like his swagger for this swagger-less bunch.

Masai is loyal but he is a good GM that realizes they needed to go a different direction.

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 12:01 PM
i also sort of wonder if any of this has to do with what happened in game 3 with Demar. should be a total non-issue, but the media has made a big deal of it and maybe it created some serious hurt on Demar's side.

Tg11
05-11-2018, 12:04 PM
Raptors are idiots for firing Casey

FlashBolt
05-11-2018, 12:13 PM
Toronto needed a coaching change. Not necessarily that Casey did a poor job but it was time to change everything. However, I still think DeRozan has to go. I don't see any upside to him with that contract.

Cal827
05-11-2018, 12:15 PM
i also sort of wonder if any of this has to do with what happened in game 3 with Demar. should be a total non-issue, but the media has made a big deal of it and maybe it created some serious hurt on Demar's side.

:laugh2: Agreed on the non issue...

Media is wondering why Derozan isn't out there. It's a do or die game and we're down 20 as he's having a pretty bad game overall. We're making a comeback, so lets put him out there to miss some shots, and get blown by on the opposing plays to put our team in the grave.

Maybe, he'll start working harder on his defense in the offseason. The past couple years, he was trying to add the 3 ball to his game, now's time to add something on the other side other than the occasional steals.

GREATNESS ONE
05-11-2018, 12:18 PM
What a joke

Cal827
05-11-2018, 12:19 PM
Toronto needed a coaching change. Not necessarily that Casey did a poor job but it was time to change everything. However, I still think DeRozan has to go. I don't see any upside to him with that contract.

:laugh2: CJ Miles was defending Love in the post. That's all I'm gonna say about Casey in the Cavs series. If you consider all his years here, he's done a very good job, but he's peaked as a coach (at least for this team).

On Demar: It's gonna be a wait and see though. As you said, he has a big contract, and there are some obvious flaws to his game. Maybe wait for a team desperate to add a star (E.g. Maybe Philly, New York) before they start the talks. Should get really interesting during Draft time though, as Toronto apparently wants to trade back intot he draft this season (they send their pick to Brooklyn to take Carrolls contract off)

tp13baby
05-11-2018, 12:21 PM
Toronto should be pleased. Masai always finds a team to **** over in a trade. He is the opposite of Ainge where he is a willing dealer and always wins the trade.

Cal827
05-11-2018, 12:22 PM
Maybe we'll hire Lebron, since he was teaching our guys our playbook in the playoffs a couple years back.

Tg11
05-11-2018, 12:24 PM
How are you gonna replace Casey? The man won you almost 60 games won you guys your first Eastern Conference title and yet you guys fire him...just stupid

Cal827
05-11-2018, 12:29 PM
Also, Vanvleet reinjured his shoulder in the first game of the series, yet Casey went with him for the potential game winning shot (regulation), and kept him in the game in OT when we needed a point to tie the game (Derozan should've shot it, but he kicked it out to him too).

This is gonna sound bad, but if we weren't as lucky as we were this season concerning injuries, then there's a good chance that we aren't even close to the win total posted up. As clearly Dwayne wasn't able to handle the injuries around playoff time.

lakerfan85
05-11-2018, 12:32 PM
They should fire the 2 stars on that team..

SteBO
05-11-2018, 12:45 PM
As long as Lowry and DeRozan are the best players on the team, championships are beyond reach so firing Casey is just the easiest/laziest move they believed they could make. Casey will find himself a job once offseason hits....so no skin off his back.

Dade County
05-11-2018, 12:48 PM
Masai is loyal but he is a good GM that realizes they needed to go a different direction.

No matter who they bring in, they won't get pass Lbj. And I believe Lbj isn't leaving the East, so they are just going to have to deal with it until Lbj falls off.

Dade County
05-11-2018, 12:49 PM
They should fire the 2 stars on that team..


As long as Lowry and DeRozan are the best players on the team, championships are beyond reach so firing Casey is just the easiest/laziest move they believed they could make. Casey will find himself a job once offseason hits....so no skin off his back.


Agreed

Cal827
05-11-2018, 12:54 PM
I'm gonna be mad if this is all they do.. Also, if Drake interferes with potential trades, so help me GOD :mad:

Firefistus
05-11-2018, 12:54 PM
I think Casey would be a GREAT coach for the OKC Thunder.

smith&wesson
05-11-2018, 01:18 PM
As long as Lowry and DeRozan are the best players on the team, championships are beyond reach so firing Casey is just the easiest/laziest move they believed they could make. Casey will find himself a job once offseason hits....so no skin off his back.

Exactly this

smith&wesson
05-11-2018, 01:19 PM
They should fire the 2 stars on that team..

Or add a better star to the equation.. they need a 3rd piece pretty badly.

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 01:38 PM
i'm not trying to bring levity to a sad situation... but in many ways you could say that was casey's employment the Raps were playing hot potato with to end game one. in fact, someone should make an animated gif replacing casey's head with the ball. ok now i'm trying to be funny but i wasn't at first.

FlashBolt
05-11-2018, 01:56 PM
LeBron's getting near 60 win teams to fire their HC. Greatness.

bucketss
05-11-2018, 02:05 PM
i believe casey asked for an extension and masai was like gtfoh!

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 02:45 PM
LeBron's getting near 60 win teams to fire their HC. Greatness.Sure says something don't it. Hope LeBron hooks him up with like a Google play card or something

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aman_13
05-11-2018, 02:52 PM
i believe casey asked for an extension and masai was like gtfoh!

Nope, that did not happen. Masai just cleared that up.

FlashBolt
05-11-2018, 02:59 PM
Brings me to the argument I make when people say East is weak.. It's a possible residual effect of what LeBron James can and has done to the East. Detroit was an elite team until they realized LeBron will be wrecking them for the forseeable future and disbanded. Celtics and Bulls came along and they were ultimately, disbanded because of LeBron. Teams are now throwing out bad contracts and trading picks trying to catch up or beat LeBron. No lone NBA superstar wants to come to the East because they see these teams are not competitive enough to stop LeBron/or don't have the accumulated talent. I bet if LeBron leaves the East, you will see more and more players come to the East. I mean, Raptors aren't a terrible team but LeBron is the reason they are treated as a joke. Remember how good the Pacers were with Roy, David, PG, George Hill, and others? They were a damn great team with the best defense in the league. Yet, after just a few years, they decided to go a different route. You don't see that happen in the West at all where teams are disbanded after just a few years.

TrueFan420
05-11-2018, 03:01 PM
A year too late

HandsOnTheWheel
05-11-2018, 03:33 PM
Needed a change after the latest disaster. They should hire Bud

still1ballin
05-11-2018, 04:01 PM
Has the coach of the year ever been fired before? Lulz


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aman_13
05-11-2018, 04:17 PM
Has the coach of the year ever been fired before? Lulz


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George Karl.

IKnowHoops
05-11-2018, 04:39 PM
Anyone seen knicksorbust around? Is he still a member?

aman_13
05-11-2018, 04:44 PM
Lol at Richard Jefferson talking out of his *** on national TV. He said that this is the second time Masai has fired a coach who has won coach of the year and even when he was corrected on it, he had the nerve to make up **** and state that Masai was part of the process.

Chronz
05-11-2018, 06:20 PM
Brings me to the argument I make when people say East is weak.. It's a possible residual effect of what LeBron James can and has done to the East. Detroit was an elite team until they realized LeBron will be wrecking them for the forseeable future and disbanded. Celtics and Bulls came along and they were ultimately, disbanded because of LeBron. Teams are now throwing out bad contracts and trading picks trying to catch up or beat LeBron. No lone NBA superstar wants to come to the East because they see these teams are not competitive enough to stop LeBron/or don't have the accumulated talent. I bet if LeBron leaves the East, you will see more and more players come to the East. I mean, Raptors aren't a terrible team but LeBron is the reason they are treated as a joke. Remember how good the Pacers were with Roy, David, PG, George Hill, and others? They were a damn great team with the best defense in the league. Yet, after just a few years, they decided to go a different route. You don't see that happen in the West at all where teams are disbanded after just a few years.
It's been damn near decades, players avoid the east, if it were so easy, we wouldn't have so many ******* out west

Chronz
05-11-2018, 06:21 PM
Has the coach of the year ever been fired before? Lulz


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It's actually a cursed award

warfelg
05-11-2018, 06:43 PM
George Karl.

My the same GM too....

Looks like you covered it. I heard Doug Gotlieb say it on The Elf Faced Douchebag's show (Colin Cowherd). Speaking of doucheface, I crack up at the fact that to him it was "no one wants to go to LA because of all the stars and not being an attraction" and now that FS has taken him there it's "no one wants to go anywhere else because everything is here".

zn23
05-11-2018, 07:10 PM
It had to be done...

warfelg
05-11-2018, 07:10 PM
Brings me to the argument I make when people say East is weak.. It's a possible residual effect of what LeBron James can and has done to the East. Detroit was an elite team until they realized LeBron will be wrecking them for the forseeable future and disbanded. Celtics and Bulls came along and they were ultimately, disbanded because of LeBron. Teams are now throwing out bad contracts and trading picks trying to catch up or beat LeBron. No lone NBA superstar wants to come to the East because they see these teams are not competitive enough to stop LeBron/or don't have the accumulated talent. I bet if LeBron leaves the East, you will see more and more players come to the East. I mean, Raptors aren't a terrible team but LeBron is the reason they are treated as a joke. Remember how good the Pacers were with Roy, David, PG, George Hill, and others? They were a damn great team with the best defense in the league. Yet, after just a few years, they decided to go a different route. You don't see that happen in the West at all where teams are disbanded after just a few years.

I think there's a big part of it that relates to that.

I think part of it has to do with the geography. And here me out about this. In the West you got two "close" teams in LAL/LAC and GSW. They are 6 hours apart, 383 miles. String 3 teams together in one division with San Antonio, Houston, New Orleans. 8 hour drive of about 550 miles. It's possible that you don't hear a lot in depth when it comes to other teams because your local stations don't pick them up, or local news doesn't really show much of them.

Boston to Washington, covering 5 teams, is 390 miles. Toronto to Milwaukee, covering 5 teams is about 590 miles. In the east teams are closer together and you get more coverage.

Now how does that play into the East/West dynamic you are talking about?

Proximity, from a geographers standpoint, is what creates a reactionary system.

Example;
Your neighbor get's a new pool, and it's something so expensive you can't afford to match it. They build a bar by it to host parties. Add some nice palm trees. Get some nice furniture. Yea they may be charging all of it, but they can afford to do that. You let your yard fall by the wayside some. Maybe part of that is spite. Part is 'what's the point'. Some is financial.

Someone on the other side of the neighborhood does the same thing. You aren't as worried about it. They are too far away.

How does that play into the NBA? Teams in the west are far enough away from each other that, while they are all certainly competing with each other, they worry about what's best for their franchise. In the east teams are close enough together (especially in the NE) that everything is done out of a reaction. Teams gave up because there was LeBron. Take a division like the Atlantic. Because NYK, PHI, BOS decided to rebuild, TOR/NETS (failed though) decided to make a run instead of doing what was best for them.

I also covered it when PG13 was traded, GM's in the east are very vindictive because they are mostly part of the 'good ole boy's club'. If this guy doesn't want to be on my team I'm sending him to a place I never have to see him. The West doesn't really have that. They got GM's that think forward and just go with what's best for them. Look at that Harden trade. Could OKC have just sent him east so they never had to deal with him? Sure. But they felt the best package they could get came from Houston. Cousins could have easily been shipped east so SAC didn't have to see him and be reminded it was silly to do that; but NO has something they really wanted and they made it happen.

Space and pace is just starting to hit the east, meanwhile the west has been playing that for years now.

It's hard to say why these things are the way they are, but when you just look around you notice that it's what's happening. The Kyrie trade is the first time you saw a star move within the east in a loooong time. And because it's looking like Cleveland got ripped off it will likely be a while until we see another one of those.

More-Than-Most
05-11-2018, 07:45 PM
Its a shame.. I am all for couches being fired but he is being used as a scapegoat for his Inept GM/2 star players and its disgusting. We live in a world where this just happened to this dude while the clippers are about to extend doc rivers. I am not even a casey guy or a brett brown guy for example but you cant blame the coach when your star players dont show up.


FML now I will have to hear about how if he were white he wouldnt be fired from Steven A

TO Rapz
05-11-2018, 07:56 PM
Its a shame.. I am all for couches being fired but he is being used as a scapegoat for his Inept GM/2 star players and its disgusting. We live in a world where this just happened to this dude while the clippers are about to extend doc rivers. I am not even a casey guy or a brett brown guy for example but you cant blame the coach when your star players dont show up.


FML now I will have to hear about how if he were white he wouldnt be fired from Steven A

Dude its more than just that man, you guys are so ignorant with this nonsense. Lowry and Derozan are B level stars or whatever you want to call them, theyre not elite talent and are both flawed players. Lowrys made the most of his limited skill set and has absolutely no explosiveness and relies on drawing contact. Hes a more finished product than Derozan due to his ability to shoot the 3 and his IQ. Derozan is an idiot. Youre right on these things... but Casey himself is the same as a coach.

He has the ultimate values of a human being. He treats everyone with immense respect, from the media to his players to the fans. He has a lot of integrity. He has everything you want in a human being. But his in game adjustments and his lack of adjustments to the Cavs offense is flat out stupid. Hes very stubborn with his schemes and lacks the sharpness to pick up something quickly in game.


His definition of adjustments is literally using the same schemes - defensive and offensive.. but just changing the rotations. Trying new players with different groups is the most you can get out of the guy. Dwayne Casey literally is the resemblance of Kyle Lowry and Demar Derozan as a coach. Hes given everything he has to offer and reached his peak, but that level is not enough, its very good.

He cant even create a gameplan where he takes away SOME of the Cavs role players and lets Lebron be Lebron. Hes a great man and I have immense respect for him but a lot of you guys have NO idea what youre talking about with Casey.

For 10, count them, TEN straight playoff games now.. all the Cavs have to do is run a simple pick and roll with Lebron and they'll get a favourable matchup because the Raptors switch on literally EVERYTHING. The scramble defense on the perimeter is literally begging for trouble against a Lebron james team.

Even the ****ing ball movement offense implemented this year seemed forced upon him. I'm giving him credit for doing it, but after last years embarrassment, the Raptors almost said.. we don't want to fire Casey yet, so were going to modernize ourselves and our offense first. Masai told Casey to change his scheme because he was so stubborn and not innovative to do it himself. Now that change hasn't worked and theres no more excuses.

GiantsSwaGG
05-11-2018, 08:50 PM
masai Maxed Derozen and resigned Lowry, why isnít he fired?

TO Rapz
05-11-2018, 09:16 PM
Hes done a lot more good than hes done bad. ^

Hes resigned Lowry on a short term deal, its not gona cripple us. Derozan is atleast though his prime. Ibaka is bad. Theres far worse contracts, Kanter and Otto just to name 2. Theyre not the best deals - but any player that's not a top 10 player in the league and is maxed out isn't a good deal really.

aman_13
05-11-2018, 09:30 PM
My the same GM too....

Looks like you covered it. I heard Doug Gotlieb say it on The Elf Faced Douchebag's show (Colin Cowherd). Speaking of doucheface, I crack up at the fact that to him it was "no one wants to go to LA because of all the stars and not being an attraction" and now that FS has taken him there it's "no one wants to go anywhere else because everything is here".

The narrative always conveniently changes.

aman_13
05-11-2018, 09:38 PM
Hes done a lot more good than hes done bad. ^

Hes resigned Lowry on a short term deal, its not gona cripple us. Derozan is atleast though his prime. Ibaka is bad. Theres far worse contracts, Kanter and Otto just to name 2. Theyre not the best deals - but any player that's not a top 10 player in the league and is maxed out isn't a good deal really.

They would be crazy to fire Masai. He's one of the best executives in the league.

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 10:10 PM
I've had the day to think this one through and maybe it's listening to all the media guys slam this move but I'm starting to feel like we might regret this move. Once you get away from the emotion of the moment (and by moment I mean the pain of getting swept so quickly under the rug by the Cavs), I'm left with the simple fact that we have 2 stars who are B level stars, and ones who shrink under pressure at that. He led this team to 59 frickin wins.

I don't know how rare the 59+ win club is but I'm guessing the number of times it's been done is not that high. And this was during a season everyone expected us to struggle when they decided to firce such a paradigm shift towards ball movement and 3's. I guess that's why I am starting to feel Casey, one of the most likeable human beings i think I can ever remember, got a bit of a shaft here. This feels like the first time Masai let his emotions dictate his actions. Because your best players are just not near good enough as the James, Durants, Hardens, Pauls, Currys, Simmons or Embiids. You are not supposed to beat those guys, we know this from decades of watching this league. And on top of that you gave the man 1 year to implement such radical change and decided it's success or failure already? Hmm.

Casey lost his job basically because of 4 games. I have a crappy feeling we are going to go through a couple coaches the next 5 years looking for someone to take this team to a level they simply cannot hit.

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CityofTreez
05-11-2018, 10:31 PM
And Coach of the Year goes to........FIRED!!!!

Jamiecballer
05-11-2018, 10:43 PM
Im curious, if he were to win the official award would it say

Dwayne Casey, Free Agent
Brad Stevens, Boston Celtics
Quinn Snyder, Utah Jazz

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aman_13
05-11-2018, 10:58 PM
Im curious, if he were to win the official award would it say

Dwayne Casey, Free Agent
Brad Stevens, Boston Celtics
Quinn Snyder, Utah Jazz

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At this point, I think Casey is a lock to get it. Not that he doesn't deserve it, but you know the media will have a field day with that potential story.

Scoots
05-11-2018, 11:24 PM
Dude its more than just that man, you guys are so ignorant with this nonsense. Lowry and Derozan are B level stars or whatever you want to call them, theyre not elite talent and are both flawed players. Lowrys made the most of his limited skill set and has absolutely no explosiveness and relies on drawing contact. Hes a more finished product than Derozan due to his ability to shoot the 3 and his IQ. Derozan is an idiot. Youre right on these things... but Casey himself is the same as a coach.

He has the ultimate values of a human being. He treats everyone with immense respect, from the media to his players to the fans. He has a lot of integrity. He has everything you want in a human being. But his in game adjustments and his lack of adjustments to the Cavs offense is flat out stupid. Hes very stubborn with his schemes and lacks the sharpness to pick up something quickly in game.


His definition of adjustments is literally using the same schemes - defensive and offensive.. but just changing the rotations. Trying new players with different groups is the most you can get out of the guy. Dwayne Casey literally is the resemblance of Kyle Lowry and Demar Derozan as a coach. Hes given everything he has to offer and reached his peak, but that level is not enough, its very good.

He cant even create a gameplan where he takes away SOME of the Cavs role players and lets Lebron be Lebron. Hes a great man and I have immense respect for him but a lot of you guys have NO idea what youre talking about with Casey.

For 10, count them, TEN straight playoff games now.. all the Cavs have to do is run a simple pick and roll with Lebron and they'll get a favourable matchup because the Raptors switch on literally EVERYTHING. The scramble defense on the perimeter is literally begging for trouble against a Lebron james team.

Even the ****ing ball movement offense implemented this year seemed forced upon him. I'm giving him credit for doing it, but after last years embarrassment, the Raptors almost said.. we don't want to fire Casey yet, so were going to modernize ourselves and our offense first. Masai told Casey to change his scheme because he was so stubborn and not innovative to do it himself. Now that change hasn't worked and theres no more excuses.

There are still people on this site defending Mark Jackson and who say he should still be coaching the Warriors ... because firing him didn't make a difference ... oh wait. I've learned that fans are often blind to some issues.

Cal827
05-12-2018, 12:15 AM
I've had the day to think this one through and maybe it's listening to all the media guys slam this move but I'm starting to feel like we might regret this move. Once you get away from the emotion of the moment (and by moment I mean the pain of getting swept so quickly under the rug by the Cavs), I'm left with the simple fact that we have 2 stars who are B level stars, and ones who shrink under pressure at that. He led this team to 59 frickin wins.

I don't know how rare the 59+ win club is but I'm guessing the number of times it's been done is not that high. And this was during a season everyone expected us to struggle when they decided to firce such a paradigm shift towards ball movement and 3's. I guess that's why I am starting to feel Casey, one of the most likeable human beings i think I can ever remember, got a bit of a shaft here. This feels like the first time Masai let his emotions dictate his actions. Because your best players are just not near good enough as the James, Durants, Hardens, Pauls, Currys, Simmons or Embiids. You are not supposed to beat those guys, we know this from decades of watching this league. And on top of that you gave the man 1 year to implement such radical change and decided it's success or failure already? Hmm.

Casey lost his job basically because of 4 games. I have a crappy feeling we are going to go through a couple coaches the next 5 years looking for someone to take this team to a level they simply cannot hit.

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To be fair, they'd be the same media guys slamming the Raptors for keeping Casey after all the playoff failures during the season (assuming we wouldn't repeat the win total). You have to do what is best for your team.

I'm not sure how well you know the NFL, but for the one's who do, I'll bring up 2 names: Marty Shottenheimer and Marvin Lewis. Marty was one of the best regular season coaches of all time, posting a winning percentage over .600 and coming up with some very strong teams in Cleveland, Kansas City, and San Diego. But you know what he's remembered for? His abysmal playoff record. His winning percentage in the playoffs was less than .300, with the team going one and done 85% of the time.

Marvin Lewis is the current coach of the Bengals, and while he's had some very good teams over the years (not as strong as Marty, but some were still pretty good nontheless), he's still yet to advance in the playoffs (a streak that includes 5 straight playoff births, and 5 straight one and dones).

Dwayne Casey has posted a .573 winning percentage as the Raptors head coach, which is great, but his postesason record: 21-31. We can go through the past 5 years as well and further review:

2014: Raptors lose in 7 to the veteran Nets team. It's their first go in the playoffs, so despite that they were the higher seed, it's not that bad for a team that was constantly crap until he took over in the previous years.

2015: Raptors are swept by the lower seeded Wizards. The Raptors had more overall talent (Beal was still developing at this point) , but the team got nervous around Paul Pierce, amd Casey got totally outcoached in the series. There's no way that that series should've ended in a sweep; especially that embarrassing game 4 loss by like 30 points.

2016: Raptors did what they needed to do and got to the ECF. Though there were points in both the Indiana series and the Miami series where they've could've ended the series sooner (particular game 4 in Miami where the offensive playcalls were dreadful to end that game), but regardless. They basically countered that by surprising everyone in forcing the series vs the Cavs to be a long one.

2017: Given the acquisitions that he wanted to try to stop Lebron and Cleveland, it doesn't end well. Lue Outcoached Casey quite frequently, killing the defensive schemes he made up, leading to Frye and others getting open shots, and then Lowry went down for the rest of the year. They also spent a lot more time fighting the Bucks than they had to.

2018: Team changes their game around, there's more chemistry from within the team, the Raptors win a team record 59 games, they get the 1 seed. They get the Wizards and take them down in 6 games (a game longer than it had to be, if the playcalling/players didn't **** the bed to close game 4) and get Lebron James and that broken down team.... and they get swept again. He was utterly outcoached in games 1 (4th quarter on),2 (Miles on Love), and 4.

What he's done for the Raptor franchise should definitely be recognized by the team, BUT maybe he's not a playoff coach? I mean, if the comments are constantly that Demar and Kyle aren't great playoff players, then it should be noted that some coaches collapse under the playoff pressure too. The Raptors had HCA and were the better team (season) than all but the 2016 and 2017 series vs the Cavs during Casey's tenure here. Despite that, they've had to fight hard to win every series they've played (Either ending in 6 or 7 games), and they've been sent home by sweeps 3 times.

This combination of coach/players can't win come playoff time, so if they're going to change the team, there's no way that they should remain together. Not just him; they need to follow up with tuning the core of the roster. They have to listen in on calls over pretty much everybody and need to bring someone big here, trade one or a few of the core 3, or both. If they go into the season with essentially the same roster, then it should be considered an absolute failure, and Ujiri should be on the hot seat. 1st round playoff defeat is NOT a direction, and turning the franchise into a boys club (Consisting of Ujiri, Lowry, Demar, and Drake), is going to piss off the legitimate (loyal) fanbase, and once they get knocked out of playoff positioning, the fairweather fanbase that's making them money will abandon the team and go root for someone else, or the Leafs.


I absolutely think it was appalling that Ujiri apparently went into the Raptors locker room after game 3, and berated Casey for not double teaming Lebron on that last play. The man finally made a proper coaching move by taking Derozan off the court as he was just hurting the team, and he was able to get the team to a tie game after looking like they were going to be blown TF out. Lebron hit an unbelievable shot over OG (who did lose a step early, but caught up to him and defended him quite well). I think a double team and he'd still hit that shot :laugh2:

Dade County
05-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Brings me to the argument I make when people say East is weak.. It's a possible residual effect of what LeBron James can and has done to the East. Detroit was an elite team until they realized LeBron will be wrecking them for the forseeable future and disbanded. Celtics and Bulls came along and they were ultimately, disbanded because of LeBron. Teams are now throwing out bad contracts and trading picks trying to catch up or beat LeBron. No lone NBA superstar wants to come to the East because they see these teams are not competitive enough to stop LeBron/or don't have the accumulated talent. I bet if LeBron leaves the East, you will see more and more players come to the East. I mean, Raptors aren't a terrible team but LeBron is the reason they are treated as a joke. Remember how good the Pacers were with Roy, David, PG, George Hill, and others? They were a damn great team with the best defense in the league. Yet, after just a few years, they decided to go a different route. You don't see that happen in the West at all where teams are disbanded after just a few years.

IT sums up your entire post.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib7YcAUWBBM

Jamiecballer
05-12-2018, 05:40 AM
To be fair, they'd be the same media guys slamming the Raptors for keeping Casey after all the playoff failures during the season (assuming we wouldn't repeat the win total). You have to do what is best for your team.

I'm going to stop you right here, not because I didn't read everything you wrote (I did) but because this is genuinely not true. I've been watching just about every Raptors take I can find since we died and most players/media/coaches were emphatically against the idea that Casey would be fired after this season that just ended. So much so that even though there was lots of fan talk on this issue in our area I never gave it a single thought as something that would be likely to happen. I know the media can be flippety flop but there was little support for that notion as of the day before he was fired.



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Mell413
05-12-2018, 05:44 AM
On the whole I think he did a solid job. That said I think he had some role in the teams failures vs Cleveland. I think it makes sense to try another coach and give it another shot. The outcome could be the same as this year, but I think you have to try another coach before blowing it up.

Tg11
05-12-2018, 07:51 AM
Don't expect Dwane Casey to be unemployed for too long because before you know it I can see another NBA team hiring him on to be their new coach. I hear Milwaukee has a new opening for a new coach don't be surprised if he lands there or Casey could go to the following teams and become its new coach such as: Bucks, Hornets, Bulls, Mavericks, Hawks, Lakers, Clippers, etc.

Heediot
05-12-2018, 08:40 AM
Team reached its peak with Casey. Might as well take a swing with a different voice/mind. What's the risk really?

Vee-Rex
05-12-2018, 08:44 AM
To be fair, they'd be the same media guys slamming the Raptors for keeping Casey after all the playoff failures during the season (assuming we wouldn't repeat the win total). You have to do what is best for your team.

I'm not sure how well you know the NFL, but for the one's who do, I'll bring up 2 names: Marty Shottenheimer and Marvin Lewis. Marty was one of the best regular season coaches of all time, posting a winning percentage over .600 and coming up with some very strong teams in Cleveland, Kansas City, and San Diego. But you know what he's remembered for? His abysmal playoff record. His winning percentage in the playoffs was less than .300, with the team going one and done 85% of the time.

Marvin Lewis is the current coach of the Bengals, and while he's had some very good teams over the years (not as strong as Marty, but some were still pretty good nontheless), he's still yet to advance in the playoffs (a streak that includes 5 straight playoff births, and 5 straight one and dones).

Dwayne Casey has posted a .573 winning percentage as the Raptors head coach, which is great, but his postesason record: 21-31. We can go through the past 5 years as well and further review:

2014: Raptors lose in 7 to the veteran Nets team. It's their first go in the playoffs, so despite that they were the higher seed, it's not that bad for a team that was constantly crap until he took over in the previous years.

2015: Raptors are swept by the lower seeded Wizards. The Raptors had more overall talent (Beal was still developing at this point) , but the team got nervous around Paul Pierce, amd Casey got totally outcoached in the series. There's no way that that series should've ended in a sweep; especially that embarrassing game 4 loss by like 30 points.

2016: Raptors did what they needed to do and got to the ECF. Though there were points in both the Indiana series and the Miami series where they've could've ended the series sooner (particular game 4 in Miami where the offensive playcalls were dreadful to end that game), but regardless. They basically countered that by surprising everyone in forcing the series vs the Cavs to be a long one.

2017: Given the acquisitions that he wanted to try to stop Lebron and Cleveland, it doesn't end well. Lue Outcoached Casey quite frequently, killing the defensive schemes he made up, leading to Frye and others getting open shots, and then Lowry went down for the rest of the year. They also spent a lot more time fighting the Bucks than they had to.

2018: Team changes their game around, there's more chemistry from within the team, the Raptors win a team record 59 games, they get the 1 seed. They get the Wizards and take them down in 6 games (a game longer than it had to be, if the playcalling/players didn't **** the bed to close game 4) and get Lebron James and that broken down team.... and they get swept again. He was utterly outcoached in games 1 (4th quarter on),2 (Miles on Love), and 4.

What he's done for the Raptor franchise should definitely be recognized by the team, BUT maybe he's not a playoff coach? I mean, if the comments are constantly that Demar and Kyle aren't great playoff players, then it should be noted that some coaches collapse under the playoff pressure too. The Raptors had HCA and were the better team (season) than all but the 2016 and 2017 series vs the Cavs during Casey's tenure here. Despite that, they've had to fight hard to win every series they've played (Either ending in 6 or 7 games), and they've been sent home by sweeps 3 times.

This combination of coach/players can't win come playoff time, so if they're going to change the team, there's no way that they should remain together. Not just him; they need to follow up with tuning the core of the roster. They have to listen in on calls over pretty much everybody and need to bring someone big here, trade one or a few of the core 3, or both. If they go into the season with essentially the same roster, then it should be considered an absolute failure, and Ujiri should be on the hot seat. 1st round playoff defeat is NOT a direction, and turning the franchise into a boys club (Consisting of Ujiri, Lowry, Demar, and Drake), is going to piss off the legitimate (loyal) fanbase, and once they get knocked out of playoff positioning, the fairweather fanbase that's making them money will abandon the team and go root for someone else, or the Leafs.


I absolutely think it was appalling that Ujiri apparently went into the Raptors locker room after game 3, and berated Casey for not double teaming Lebron on that last play. The man finally made a proper coaching move by taking Derozan off the court as he was just hurting the team, and he was able to get the team to a tie game after looking like they were going to be blown TF out. Lebron hit an unbelievable shot over OG (who did lose a step early, but caught up to him and defended him quite well). I think a double team and he'd still hit that shot :laugh2:

I think this is very well put. Marty gained a really bad reputation for that and it's a primary reason he hasn't been hired since the firing with the Chargers. Not sure how Marvin Lewis still has a job but as a Browns fan I'm happy with it.

Sometimes a team just needs a brand new voice, you know? Casey did a lot of good things in his tenure, but 3 straight playoff losses to the same team (2 being sweeps, and the other still having a large margin of victory) has an impact on the team.

What happens if the Raptors face a LeBron-led Cavs team next year? Or a fully healthy Celtics team that has more talent? Or a stronger Philly team with more talent and experience? What sort of things would Casey preach, and how would he get the Raps players to buy in after so many disappointments already?

Sometimes having that new voice is just important to move on and take it to the next level. Hopefully Raps fans don't panic and just wait to see what the rest of the offseason has in store.

AllBall
05-12-2018, 09:16 AM
I'm going to stop you right here, not because I didn't read everything you wrote (I did) but because this is genuinely not true. I've been watching just about every Raptors take I can find since we died and most players/media/coaches were emphatically against the idea that Casey would be fired after this season that just ended. So much so that even though there was lots of fan talk on this issue in our area I never gave it a single thought as something that would be likely to happen. I know the media can be flippety flop but there was little support for that notion as of the day before he was fired.



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I think it's like any job, no matter how good of an employee you are, there is one metric that if you bomb, you will get fired. You may be a great sales man the first 3 quarters of the year, but if you sold 0 items during the Holiday quarter, the most important quarter for selling, then you will be fired January 1st. The NBA's most important time is the playoffs. Casey got a pass last season when he got swept. But he can't expect the same thing a second time in a row.

Jamiecballer
05-12-2018, 11:44 AM
I think it's like any job, no matter how good of an employee you are, there is one metric that if you bomb, you will get fired. You may be a great sales man the first 3 quarters of the year, but if you sold 0 items during the Holiday quarter, the most important quarter for selling, then you will be fired January 1st. The NBA's most important time is the playoffs. Casey got a pass last season when he got swept. But he can't expect the same thing a second time in a row.

Yeah, there are a lot of things I would like to address but I don't want to dissect it that much tbh. I don't know if you agree with this take but I will 100% disregard game 4 - the team laid down and I don't think the coach had any bearing on this. So you've got 3 games left to look at, and the Raptors had an honest shot in 2 of them to win in the final minute.

Moving on. It's overly simplistic to say that he got zero sales - in fact the analogy is all wrong. If winning the second most games in the NBA is equivalent to doing great sales for 3 months, then it's important to remember that Casey is a manager - the players as a group are the producers, or the salespeople. So why did the players stop making sales? If you have reason to believe that the manager can no longer continue to get production than you have a valid case to make the move. If that's not the case than it is the people who can't make sales any more that would be on the chopping block. That's the players.

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TheDish87
05-14-2018, 02:59 PM
How many chances should Casey get? The Cavs were primed to be taken out this year and he couldn't even get a competitive series out of his team with HCA. Making the playoffs in the NBA isnt hard to do especially in the east. The window is closed on this version of the Raps and its time they re-tool or re-build bcuz they dont have enough to keep up with the Sixers, Celtics, or any team out East James plays for going forward.

Jamiecballer
05-14-2018, 03:30 PM
How many chances should Casey get? The Cavs were primed to be taken out this year and he couldn't even get a competitive series out of his team with HCA. Making the playoffs in the NBA isnt hard to do especially in the east. The window is closed on this version of the Raps and its time they re-tool or re-build bcuz they dont have enough to keep up with the Sixers, Celtics, or any team out East James plays for going forward.
there never was a window unless you are of the impression that Derozan or Lowry belong in the same sentence as some of the leagues premier talents.

GiantsSwaGG
05-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Raps better hire Coach Bud to justify this firing

Cal827
05-14-2018, 04:39 PM
I'm going to stop you right here, not because I didn't read everything you wrote (I did) but because this is genuinely not true. I've been watching just about every Raptors take I can find since we died and most players/media/coaches were emphatically against the idea that Casey would be fired after this season that just ended. So much so that even though there was lots of fan talk on this issue in our area I never gave it a single thought as something that would be likely to happen. I know the media can be flippety flop but there was little support for that notion as of the day before he was fired.



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Since this thread came back up :laugh2:

Players aren't really going to openly say that the a coach deserved to be fired. The backlash would be crazy. Imagine someone like Durant coming out and saying, "good riddance" when the Cavs fired Blatt.

Coaches are all represented from the same union (even the one's not coaching), so again it's unlikely one will come out and lambast a fellow member.

The strongest comment that most of these guys would say (In agreement) would be something to the tune of "I understand their decision".

I know Patterson recently came out saying the Raptors made a mistake. That's his opinion as he played here, that's fine, but with what Griffin came out and said what Lebron was doing in last years playoffs speaks volumes. I'm sorry, I love Patterson, but if he's wasn't able to properly follow schemes, to the extent that an opposing player has to tell him where to go, then he SHOULDN'T be on the court. A coach should be strong enough to make that move EVERY TIME. (Like Casey did with Derozan this year when he was absolutely terrible in game 3).

Also, I'm shocked by how much the fanbase has been impacted by the media now.
The same media that so many of us said didn't exactly pay attention to the Raptors and wrote them off until towards the end of the season when the standings were becoming more solid?
I mean, nobody was talking about how the Raptors seemed to lose a bit of their mojo on both the offensive and defensive end after losing to the Thunder in March, or how asinine it was to go for 60 wins in a meaningless game (Which basically costed us a key cog in our machine from being healthy for the playoffs). Imagine if Lowry or Derozan had gotten injured playing extended minutes in that game. Where was the criticism for the latter, especially seeing that the Raptors nearly had to go 7 games with the Wizards, a team that was struggling mightily going into the playoffs and their best player was injured.

For the Cleveland series, Casey just made too many mistakes early on in the first 2 games, that they built a hole they couldn't get out of. Don't get me wrong, he did much better with his coaching decisions in game 3 and the first half of game 4, but it was too late. Also, in retrospect, I also agree with you, the end of game 4 wasn't really on him, the players basically gave up after Cleveland went on that run. But if the players are giving up on the coach, that's usually a good indication that it's over for the coach. Mind you, he shouldn't be the only one gone; as I said before, the Raptors better not stand pat then this place turns into a boys club with Casey being the scapegoat who falls on the axe. They need to openly shop/listen to offers for Demar/Lowry, and see if they can somehow fool a team to take Ibaka (E.g. Denver needs some cap to resign Jokic, maybe they'll trade Milsap for the slightly cheaper Ibaka contract + ?).

Casey deserves all of the credit for where the Raptors are today (though Masai gets a fair bit, though kinda undeserved). Casey been at the helm of the best Toronto team, with the best Toronto players. He's saw the development of Derozan/Lowry/Valanciunas. And I would say overachieved with the trash teams he had in the first few years when he started. Ujiri tried to trade guys away to rebuild, but with the guys they got back (and Dolan's hesitance on giving Toronto another first), Casey was able to build the culture here to more of a competitive/winning one. I'm feel that if he goes to a young team that's a little disorganized (E.g. Milwaukee, Brooklyn), He'll be able to help them advance in their respective paths.

Also out of curiosity, how do you feel about them possibly replacing from within with Nurse or Stackhouse? I personally hate it because I feel the team would need a more NBA playoff hardened coach, not from within (Though Stackhouse has NBDL playoff experience :laugh2: )

Jamiecballer
05-14-2018, 07:43 PM
Raps better hire Coach Bud to justify this firingI am of the exact opposite position. Find the next brilliant mind or hire someone who has won something.

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Jamiecballer
05-14-2018, 07:54 PM
Since this thread came back up :laugh2:

Players aren't really going to openly say that the a coach deserved to be fired. The backlash would be crazy. Imagine someone like Durant coming out and saying, "good riddance" when the Cavs fired Blatt.

Coaches are all represented from the same union (even the one's not coaching), so again it's unlikely one will come out and lambast a fellow member.

The strongest comment that most of these guys would say (In agreement) would be something to the tune of "I understand their decision".

I know Patterson recently came out saying the Raptors made a mistake. That's his opinion as he played here, that's fine, but with what Griffin came out and said what Lebron was doing in last years playoffs speaks volumes. I'm sorry, I love Patterson, but if he's wasn't able to properly follow schemes, to the extent that an opposing player has to tell him where to go, then he SHOULDN'T be on the court. A coach should be strong enough to make that move EVERY TIME. (Like Casey did with Derozan this year when he was absolutely terrible in game 3).

Also, I'm shocked by how much the fanbase has been impacted by the media now.
The same media that so many of us said didn't exactly pay attention to the Raptors and wrote them off until towards the end of the season when the standings were becoming more solid?
I mean, nobody was talking about how the Raptors seemed to lose a bit of their mojo on both the offensive and defensive end after losing to the Thunder in March, or how asinine it was to go for 60 wins in a meaningless game (Which basically costed us a key cog in our machine from being healthy for the playoffs). Imagine if Lowry or Derozan had gotten injured playing extended minutes in that game. Where was the criticism for the latter, especially seeing that the Raptors nearly had to go 7 games with the Wizards, a team that was struggling mightily going into the playoffs and their best player was injured.

For the Cleveland series, Casey just made too many mistakes early on in the first 2 games, that they built a hole they couldn't get out of. Don't get me wrong, he did much better with his coaching decisions in game 3 and the first half of game 4, but it was too late. Also, in retrospect, I also agree with you, the end of game 4 wasn't really on him, the players basically gave up after Cleveland went on that run. But if the players are giving up on the coach, that's usually a good indication that it's over for the coach. Mind you, he shouldn't be the only one gone; as I said before, the Raptors better not stand pat then this place turns into a boys club with Casey being the scapegoat who falls on the axe. They need to openly shop/listen to offers for Demar/Lowry, and see if they can somehow fool a team to take Ibaka (E.g. Denver needs some cap to resign Jokic, maybe they'll trade Milsap for the slightly cheaper Ibaka contract + ?).

Casey deserves all of the credit for where the Raptors are today (though Masai gets a fair bit, though kinda undeserved). Casey been at the helm of the best Toronto team, with the best Toronto players. He's saw the development of Derozan/Lowry/Valanciunas. And I would say overachieved with the trash teams he had in the first few years when he started. Ujiri tried to trade guys away to rebuild, but with the guys they got back (and Dolan's hesitance on giving Toronto another first), Casey was able to build the culture here to more of a competitive/winning one. I'm feel that if he goes to a young team that's a little disorganized (E.g. Milwaukee, Brooklyn), He'll be able to help them advance in their respective paths.

Also out of curiosity, how do you feel about them possibly replacing from within with Nurse or Stackhouse? I personally hate it because I feel the team would need a more NBA playoff hardened coach, not from within (Though Stackhouse has NBDL playoff experience :laugh2: )I'm good with Nurse or Stackhouse. Really anyone who isn't Budenholzer. If they hire a guy with an identical track record of winning 60 games without a superstar and then getting swept by LeBron than I'll take a break from the NBA for a while

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aman_13
05-14-2018, 08:55 PM
I seriously don't understand the comparison between Bud and Casey. They are very different coaches. Both fell victim to an all time great, that's the only similarity. But for both, it has more to do with the roster than coaching.

aman_13
05-14-2018, 08:56 PM
I'm good with Nurse or Stackhouse. Really anyone who isn't Budenholzer. If they hire a guy with an identical track record of winning 60 games without a superstar and then getting swept by LeBron than I'll take a break from the NBA for a while

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Why Stackhouse? His team was last in pace and ran the same offense the Raptors did. Not to mention, he believes the best players should average 20 plus points even if it means them taking 30 shots.

HandsOnTheWheel
05-14-2018, 09:03 PM
I seriously don't understand the comparison between Bud and Casey. They are very different coaches. Both fell victim to an all time great, that's the only similarity. But for both, it has more to do with the roster than coaching.

This.

AllBall
05-14-2018, 11:30 PM
I am of the exact opposite position. Find the next brilliant mind or hire someone who has won something.

I think finding the next brilliant mind is more in line with what has been successfull lately. Seems that the video/stats guys are where it's at.

Jamiecballer
05-15-2018, 08:54 AM
Why Stackhouse? His team was last in pace and ran the same offense the Raptors did. Not to mention, he believes the best players should average 20 plus points even if it means them taking 30 shots.
the only reservation comes from your last statement, although i'm not sure if you are just projecting his early NBA career onto his coaching beliefs or not. the rest i am not sure about, i do not know how much of how a G-League team is run is up to the head coach and what influence if any the parent NBA club has. having said that, if there is any chance he replicates what casey does well while also rubbing off a little bit of that irrational alpha mindset on Demar, that to me is our best chance going forward. caveat - i am assuming that roster flexibility will not allow us to overhaul the roster when i say this, otherwise i would have a different answer. if i could i would move Demar but i think that is unlikely to happen. if anyone is culpable for the raptors poor showing against the Cavs, and who has consistently shrunk against the good teams it is him, and Lowry.

Jamiecballer
05-15-2018, 08:55 AM
I seriously don't understand the comparison between Bud and Casey. They are very different coaches. Both fell victim to an all time great, that's the only similarity. But for both, it has more to do with the roster than coaching.

absolutely agreed

aman_13
05-15-2018, 12:37 PM
the only reservation comes from your last statement, although i'm not sure if you are just projecting his early NBA career onto his coaching beliefs or not. the rest i am not sure about, i do not know how much of how a G-League team is run is up to the head coach and what influence if any the parent NBA club has. having said that, if there is any chance he replicates what casey does well while also rubbing off a little bit of that irrational alpha mindset on Demar, that to me is our best chance going forward. caveat - i am assuming that roster flexibility will not allow us to overhaul the roster when i say this, otherwise i would have a different answer. if i could i would move Demar but i think that is unlikely to happen. if anyone is culpable for the raptors poor showing against the Cavs, and who has consistently shrunk against the good teams it is him, and Lowry.

He was quoted.

You have a fair point about the offense. Although I'm discouraged by the pace.

Jamiecballer
05-15-2018, 04:52 PM
Casey submitted a thank you letter to the Toronto Star. Whomever gets him will be glad they did.

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AntiG
05-15-2018, 05:16 PM
this is like the firing of Mark Jackson after winning 51 games with the W's except the Raptors don't have a championship level roster.

blahblahyoutoo
05-16-2018, 12:55 AM
this is like the firing of Mark Jackson after winning 51 games with the W's except the Raptors don't have a championship level roster.

Yeah both of the coaches u named suck.

R. Johnson#3
05-16-2018, 05:31 AM
Apparently Casey approached Masai looking for an extension. Back to back sweeps with 1 year left on his deal and he wanted an extension?