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View Full Version : Brons Plan...Thoughts? GOAT now?



IKnowHoops
05-06-2018, 01:57 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVHNVzju_g

KobeOwnSU
05-06-2018, 02:18 PM
He is the Goat but I'd still rather have Jordan or Kobe if I was picking teams. Just my opinion.

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Jamiecballer
05-06-2018, 02:37 PM
Has my vote. Jordan was incredible when he had the ball in his hands but you would not be best served having it there all game. Lebron is dominating the entire game from tipoff to final buzzer. He has finally reached peak Jordan and peak Magic simultaneously. Amazing.

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Vinylman
05-06-2018, 02:39 PM
haha... lebrons legacy furthered during games against the most inferior competition he has ever faced...

only on PSD

Bruno
05-06-2018, 03:29 PM
Hes been amazing. I'm in awe watching him. these fade aways, the game winners. he's not at his all time peak from a production point of view but ive never been more entertained by how hes balling. "two points is not two points". heart and eyes thinks hes never looked better.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 03:50 PM
haha... lebrons legacy furthered during games against the most inferior competition he has ever faced...

only on PSD

This current Pacers and Raptors teams are very good teams. And they would be ECF contenders and threats in Jordan's day no problem.


I'd argue that you are either not watching the full Cavs games and what Bron is doing, or you have completely ignored the box scores and stats, or you have your head in your *** and aren't aware that basketball is being played.

What he is doing on both ends of the court with very little help is incredible. In an era where no individual can do what he's doing. And Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc wouldn't have been able to.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 03:55 PM
I was at dinner last night with bro-in law. He's from Chicago, 40 years old. Biggest Jordan fan you've ever met (literally was wearing a Jordan number 45 and a new pair of Jordan's).

Exact words, he'd pick Bron over Jordan at his peak to start a team. Never thought I'd hear the words.

He's just objective, and objectively, it's the right answer.

Jordan was a killer, hyper competitive, knew how to put a game away. But he also had a perfect team for him, did it during the leagues expansion era with watered down opponents, in an era where superstars didn't team up, and you didn't have 3's raining from centers or anyone.

The Bulls were still title contenders without him. He is what put them over the edge. The Cavs are awful without Bron. A lottery team at best.

The game and era are completely different, and Bron is the guy you build your franchise around. Jordan is the guy you put the right magic around him, and he'll win it. Bron doesn't need the right team, he just needs...well 4 guys wearing the same jersey.

Bruno
05-06-2018, 04:02 PM
haha... lebrons legacy furthered during games against the most inferior competition he has ever faced...

only on PSD

this has applied for the past decade but this year things are shifting, imo. this year this stuff is pretty amazing. toronto is regular season fools gold, sure. but can't take away from these ridiculous shots hes hitting.

Bruno
05-06-2018, 04:06 PM
The game and era are completely different, and Bron is the guy you build your franchise around. Jordan is the guy you put the right magic around him, and he'll win it. Bron doesn't need the right team, he just needs...well 4 guys wearing the same jersey.
until golden state walks through the door! he needs peak Kyrie to compete with that level of talent. no kyrie no title. but yea- he's on a level where he can pick a team like toronto in devastating fashion. hard to take a fair look at what tornoto is. built well and for a long stable regular season but when rotations tighten and teams lock in on what they do theyre just not a serious threat to win best of sevens against teams that have top 5-10 players. they had their hands full with Washington.

Chronz
05-06-2018, 04:10 PM
until golden state walks through the door! he needs peak Kyrie to compete with that level of talent. no kyrie no title. but yea- he's on a level where he can pick a team like toronto in devastating fashion.
He did the same to the 60 win hawks all on his lonesome. Raptors aren't historically weak tho, plenty were worse

Bruno
05-06-2018, 04:28 PM
he did the same to the 60 win hawks all on his lonesome. Raptors aren't historically weak tho, plenty were worse

wow youre right. i forgot that Love and Kyrie were out.

these well rounded 1 seed teams seem to do worse and against LeBron than teams with explosive guards or wings who can challenge LeBron. Indy 18, Indy with George and Butler Bulls teams. even last years Boston right- top seed, get destroyed.

in my gut, I just don't see them as your classically average 1 seed. but by the numbers, of course they are. something about those teams that's beyond the numbers. its almost like they don't believe they can beat lebron, so i dont either. these close games, the blown tip ins from game one. I dont think they believe they can win. too much fear. makes them come off as a weaker opponent then they are on paper. but yea, plenty were worse.

Bruno
05-06-2018, 04:30 PM
atlanta, toronto- no swagger. no inflated self confidence that could allow them to actually win some games. memories are too long. Lance magic.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 04:35 PM
He's just objective, and objectively, it's the right answer.



lol, sorry but no

nastynice
05-06-2018, 04:38 PM
This current Pacers and Raptors teams are very good teams. And they would be ECF contenders and threats in Jordan's day no problem.


.

Cmon man, since playoff tipoff the east look like the same jv garbage we're all used to

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 04:42 PM
until golden state walks through the door! he needs peak Kyrie to compete with that level of talent. no kyrie no title. but yea- he's on a level where he can pick a team like toronto in devastating fashion. hard to take a fair look at what tornoto is. built well and for a long stable regular season but when rotations tighten and teams lock in on what they do theyre just not a serious threat to win best of sevens against teams that have top 5-10 players. they had their hands full with Washington.

Fully agree.

Warriors, and probably Rockets are the two teams (and a healthy Celtics) that can and probably will beat him. And 76ers have the potential and talent.

What's crazy is that each of those are full squads. Not great individuals leading a team.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 04:44 PM
Cmon man, since playoff tipoff the east look like the same jv garbage we're all used to

It's the same it was in the 90's for Jordan

IKnowHoops
05-06-2018, 04:56 PM
lol, sorry but no

Dude you hadnít been shot out yet, how would you know.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 04:57 PM
It's the same it was in the 90's for Jordan

the hell? Knicks, pacers, magic, heat. It was still weaker than the west, yes, but not like today

nastynice
05-06-2018, 04:58 PM
Dude you hadnít been shot out yet, how would you know.

Chill sonny, I don't roll like you, constantly having opinions about things you don't know Jack **** about

IKnowHoops
05-06-2018, 05:02 PM
Chill sonny, I don't roll like you, constantly having opinions about things you don't know Jack **** about

What? You hadnít been conceived yet? So you absolutely love to talk about things you donít know about. Leaving home at 15 proves you really didnít know. Coming back home proved you didnít know what you were doing when u left. If your willing to throw ur life away, then i know youíll throw Away some sentences.

KingstonHawke
05-06-2018, 05:11 PM
haha... lebrons legacy furthered during games against the most inferior competition he has ever faced...

only on PSD

This Raptors team beats the Jazz that gave Michael so much trouble. Stockton isn't much better than Lowry, and while I love Malone he'd have to deal with one of the better defenders in the history of the league. Derozan and Val would look unstoppble in their matchups.

This Raptors team compares favorably to pretty much any team Michael beat. You subtract the top two players from most teams in the 90s and they are trash. Ironically, I credit Jordan with this. He made the league so much more popular than it was that 20 years later you're seeing the difference between his time and when I grew up (I'm 31 now).

If I grew up in the 60s I'd of ended up being obsessed with boxing as a child, but in the 80s it was all about that round ball. Jordan fans should take it as a compliment that LeBron has CLEARLY surpassed him. And that the NBA is the premiere league for elite athletes in the world.

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 05:18 PM
This Raptors team beats the Jazz that gave Michael so much trouble. Stockton isn't much better than Lowry, and while I love Malone he'd have to deal with one of the better defenders in the history of the league. Derozan and Val would look unstoppble in their matchups.

This Raptors team compares favorably to pretty much any team Michael beat. You subtract the top two players from most teams in the 90s and they are trash. Ironically, I credit Jordan with this. He made the league so much more popular than it was that 20 years later you're seeing the difference between his time and when I grew up (I'm 31 now).

If I grew up in the 60s I'd of ended up being obsessed with boxing as a child, but in the 80s it was all about that round ball. Jordan fans should take it as a compliment that LeBron has CLEARLY surpassed him. And that the NBA is the premiere league for elite athletes in the world.

You can't be serious. Stockton is MUCH better then Lowry and malone is MUCH better than DeRozan. Malone would destroy jval and ibaka. The jazz would sweep this raptors team.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 05:30 PM
This Raptors team beats the Jazz that gave Michael so much trouble. Stockton isn't much better than Lowry, and while I love Malone he'd have to deal with one of the better defenders in the history of the league. Derozan and Val would look unstoppble in their matchups.



Wow that's extreme

What would happen if today's Sacramento kings played in the 90's? Three peat?

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 05:35 PM
Not going to entertain this bron vs Jordan debate. Bron can't win. He's going to carry some scrub team to the finals against supbar competition as he usually does. And then likely get swept by GS. The debate will stop with that...as it usually does.

ODB13
05-06-2018, 05:43 PM
I was at dinner last night with bro-in law. He's from Chicago, 40 years old. Biggest Jordan fan you've ever met (literally was wearing a Jordan number 45 and a new pair of Jordan's).

Exact words, he'd pick Bron over Jordan at his peak to start a team. Never thought I'd hear the words.

He's just objective, and objectively, it's the right answer.

Jordan was a killer, hyper competitive, knew how to put a game away. But he also had a perfect team for him, did it during the leagues expansion era with watered down opponents, in an era where superstars didn't team up, and you didn't have 3's raining from centers or anyone.

The Bulls were still title contenders without him. He is what put them over the edge. The Cavs are awful without Bron. A lottery team at best.

The game and era are completely different, and Bron is the guy you build your franchise around. Jordan is the guy you put the right magic around him, and he'll win it. Bron doesn't need the right team, he just needs...well 4 guys wearing the same jersey.

For someone who prides himself on "objectivity" this is a bunch of conjecture from someone obviously new to this sport.

Stick to baseball and golf, sports where individual performance can be quantified reliably. You actually have to understand how this sport is played to remark on it.

ODB13
05-06-2018, 05:44 PM
Cmon man, since playoff tipoff the east look like the same jv garbage we're all used to

If you didn't watch basketball till recently, you would be as deluded as Jeffy is over his precious "Bron."

FlashBolt
05-06-2018, 05:45 PM
Toronto was top five in offense/defense and the third best team in the regular season. They're only trash because LeBron beats them, I guess. And these kids think LeBron is playing with NBA legends on his squad. It's hilarious. Curry can go to sleep for an entire season and rounds 1/2 in the playoffs and his team will still be favorites to win the ring but this clown NastyNice wants to convince us that LeBron is the one playing vs trash. Lol.

kobe4thewinbang
05-06-2018, 05:47 PM
I don't know how I feel about LeBron going HAM now as opposed to going HAM later in the ECF and primarily the Finals. We might wind up saying "LeBron scraped by the Pacers, obliterated the Raptors, beat out the Celtics (most likely at this point) but finally collapsed against the Warriors." I think the Cavs can beat the Rockets, and technically they have beaten the Warriors in the past, but the magic touch has to end at some point. He's front loading it by far!

FlashBolt
05-06-2018, 05:49 PM
I don't know how I feel about LeBron going HAM now as opposed to going HAM later in the ECF and primarily the Finals. We might wind up saying "LeBron scraped by the Pacers, obliterated the Raptors, beat out the Celtics (most likely at this point) but finally collapsed against the Warriors." I think the Cavs can beat the Rockets, and technically they have beaten the Warriors in the past, but the magic touch has to end at some point. He's front loading it by far!

If leBron wins one game vs the Warriors with this roster, it'll be an accomplishment in-itself. With Kyrie, they still only managed one win. This roster doesn't seem capable of winning more than 1 game.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 05:50 PM
Toronto was top five in offense/defense and the third best team in the regular season. They're only trash because LeBron beats them, I guess. And these kids think LeBron is playing with NBA legends on his squad. It's hilarious. Curry can go to sleep for an entire season and rounds 1/2 in the playoffs and his team will still be favorites to win the ring but this clown NastyNice wants to convince us that LeBron is the one playing vs trash. Lol.

You're right bro, the 9 seed in the west could legitimately beat out the one seed in the east in a series, but oh my God, everyone look out for that eastern conference competition!!

Philly and Boston will soon become legit squads. As for right now, COOKIES!!

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 05:51 PM
the hell? Knicks, pacers, magic, heat. It was still weaker than the west, yes, but not like today

Weren't that good in the 90's lol

Magic had a shot, but the team wasn't together long enough. Nobody else was a true threat or issue, and Bron would be going to the Finals every year without issue in the 90's East.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 05:54 PM
If leBron wins one game vs the Warriors with this roster, it'll be an accomplishment in-itself. e.

Hella lebron mentality right there

As long as he averages his triple double he's happy

But out here in Cali we want rings baby :cool:

FlashBolt
05-06-2018, 05:54 PM
Funny this kid mentions the Knicks. They were total chokes and Pippen got robbed of a call that let the Knicks win the series.. you're telling me Pippen can lead his team to beat the Knicks but LeBron can't punish them? Pacers? Lmao, Reggie Miller was the best on that squad. He's an anorexic trash-talking Klay Thompson. Magic were the only competent team and at that point, Shaq was baby-Shaq who still did not figure out how to truly dominate the game. This clown doesn't know what he's talking about.

FlashBolt
05-06-2018, 05:56 PM
Hella lebron mentality right there

As long as he averages his triple double he's happy

But out here in Cali we want rings baby :cool:

It's the truth. I'm sorry truth and facts are not your expertise and you resort to lies and opinions. Nothing you say is credible. I walk away from any engagement with you wondering how dummies are created and then I realize I've found the answer.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 05:56 PM
Weren't that good in the 90's lol

Magic had a shot, but the team wasn't together long enough. Nobody else was a true threat or issue, and Bron would be going to the Finals every year without issue in the 90's East.

You're trippin. Replace the cavs with any of those 4 mentioned teams today and that team is going to the finals, without much competition in most cases

nastynice
05-06-2018, 05:59 PM
Funny this kid mentions the Knicks. They were total chokes and Pippen got robbed of a call that let the Knicks win the series.. you're telling me Pippen can lead his team to beat the Knicks but LeBron can't punish them? Pacers? Lmao, Reggie Miller was the best on that squad. He's an anorexic trash-talking Klay Thompson. Magic were the only competent team and at that point, Shaq was baby-Shaq who still did not figure out how to truly dominate the game. This clown doesn't know what he's talking about.

Tell me, who was on that pacers squad? If Reggie Miller is the only thing that comes to mind then you may not know what the hell you're talking about

That was a squad right there

I love how you downplay miller's pacers and simultaneously pump up today's oladipo pacers, lol

nastynice
05-06-2018, 06:01 PM
It's the truth. I'm sorry truth and facts are not your expertise and you resort to lies and opinions. Nothing you say is credible. I walk away from any engagement with you wondering how dummies are created and then I realize I've found the answer.

lmao, if talking basketball gets this personal for you, this forum might not be the healthiest thing for you. Your bud IKnowHoops too

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 06:06 PM
Jordan is untouchable stop trying. 6-6 and 6 finals MVPs. You can't touch Jordan unless you match that combined with dominant individual stats. No matter how many scrub rosters you carry to the finals and then proceed to lose with.

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:09 PM
This current Pacers and Raptors teams are very good teams. And they would be ECF contenders and threats in Jordan's day no problem.


I'd argue that you are either not watching the full Cavs games and what Bron is doing, or you have completely ignored the box scores and stats, or you have your head in your *** and aren't aware that basketball is being played.

What he is doing on both ends of the court with very little help is incredible. In an era where no individual can do what he's doing. And Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc wouldn't have been able to.

I don't know about the Pacers. That team is a borderline lotto team that overachieved this year. They were a bad matchup for the Cavs. NBA playoffs is all about matchups both Bos and Cle had to take it to 7 in round one, and now might be able to sweep round two.

We don't know if Jordan could or can't do in this era, he played and grew up in a different era. Looking at his tool box - work ethic, will to win, basketball iq, and feel there is a possibility he would adjust fairly well.

SteBO
05-06-2018, 06:12 PM
Jordan is untouchable stop trying. 6-6 and 6 finals MVPs. You can't touch Jordan unless you match that combined with dominant individual stats. No matter how many scrub rosters you carry to the finals and then proceed to lose with.
Ahh, so nuance & circumstances cease to matter to you since itís so much easier and lazier to just ring count. Additionally, LBJ has MJ beat in the statistical category. Jordanís the GOAT, but thatís largely because of 2011 imo. What ĎBron is going up against is the mythology of Jordan.

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:14 PM
Has my vote. Jordan was incredible when he had the ball in his hands but you would not be best served having it there all game. Lebron is dominating the entire game from tipoff to final buzzer. He has finally reached peak Jordan and peak Magic simultaneously. Amazing.

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I think physically and skill wise right now he has a case. Only because he has shown it, and Jordan didn't get a chance at this era.

Mentally and intangibles wise, I'm taking Jordan. More ruthless, fearless, more naturally skilled. Can be argued to b e more athletic in certain aspects.

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 06:16 PM
Ahh, so nuance & circumstances cease to matter to you since itís just so much easier and lazier to just ring count. Additionally, LBJ has MJ beat in the statistical category. Jordanís the GOAT, but thatís largely because of 2011 imo. What ĎBron is going up against is the mythology of Jordan.

What he's going up against is the lack of failure from MJ. That's fact, not myth.

Stats don't tell the whole story. See wilt chamberlain. Hell see rusell westbrook haha

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:17 PM
I was at dinner last night with bro-in law. He's from Chicago, 40 years old. Biggest Jordan fan you've ever met (literally was wearing a Jordan number 45 and a new pair of Jordan's).

Exact words, he'd pick Bron over Jordan at his peak to start a team. Never thought I'd hear the words.

He's just objective, and objectively, it's the right answer.

Jordan was a killer, hyper competitive, knew how to put a game away. But he also had a perfect team for him, did it during the leagues expansion era with watered down opponents, in an era where superstars didn't team up, and you didn't have 3's raining from centers or anyone.

The Bulls were still title contenders without him. He is what put them over the edge. The Cavs are awful without Bron. A lottery team at best.

The game and era are completely different, and Bron is the guy you build your franchise around. Jordan is the guy you put the right magic around him, and he'll win it. Bron doesn't need the right team, he just needs...well 4 guys wearing the same jersey.

Bulls were not title contenders without MJ. They were a well oiled machine that could hold their own. That's like saying the curry warriors pre-durant were title contenders without Curry. Warriors were/are a well oiled machine but they weren't title contenders pre 2017 without curry.

Chronz
05-06-2018, 06:20 PM
Music sucks. This is equally ******

Chronz
05-06-2018, 06:21 PM
Bulls were not title contenders without MJ. They were a well oiled machine that could hold their own. That's like saying the curry warriors pre-durant were title contenders without Curry. Warriors were/are a well oiled machine but they weren't title contenders pre 2017 without curry.

I don't get it. Without curry they lose more games than 2 don't they?

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:22 PM
Funny this kid mentions the Knicks. They were total chokes and Pippen got robbed of a call that let the Knicks win the series.. you're telling me Pippen can lead his team to beat the Knicks but LeBron can't punish them? Pacers? Lmao, Reggie Miller was the best on that squad. He's an anorexic trash-talking Klay Thompson. Magic were the only competent team and at that point, Shaq was baby-Shaq who still did not figure out how to truly dominate the game. This clown doesn't know what he's talking about.

Knicks were legit team back then. Playoffs is also about matchups, they probably matchup badly vs. the Bulls, as the Cavs vs. the Pacers this year. I don't think they were championship caliber but they were CF threats in the early and mid 90's. Finals threats if MJ wasn't playing.

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:25 PM
Tell me, who was on that pacers squad? If Reggie Miller is the only thing that comes to mind then you may not know what the hell you're talking about

That was a squad right there

I love how you downplay miller's pacers and simultaneously pump up today's oladipo pacers, lol

Yeah Pacers had bruisers in the Davis boys. A soild offensive Center in Smits. Some solid role players and specialists.

I just think it was a different game/era so it's hard to compare. But I'm not one to automatically qualify any current playoff team now as being CF contenders (if played back then) just because they play a more evolved game.

Chronz
05-06-2018, 06:28 PM
I don't think a Klay-Dray-Iggy-Bogut-Livingston team are title contenders, that's just me. They probably put up nice regular season advanced stats (Being well coached and running a nice system) and make the stat geeks over-rate them. The deeper they get into the playoffs the more exposed they'd be, just my take. Kind of like ATL a few years back with Bud, and the Raps this year.
I sees

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:28 PM
I don't get it. Without curry they lose more games than 2 don't they?

I don't think a Klay-Dray-Iggy-Bogut-Livingston team are title contenders, that's just me. They probably put up nice regular season advanced stats (Being well coached and running a nice system) and make the stat geeks over-rate them. The deeper they get into the playoffs the more exposed they'd be, just my take. Kind of like ATL a few years back with Bud, and the Raps this year.

nastynice
05-06-2018, 06:28 PM
Knicks were legit team back then. Playoffs is also about matchups, they probably matchup badly vs. the Bulls, as the Cavs vs. the Pacers this year. I don't think they were championship caliber but they were CF threats in the early and mid 90's. Finals threats if MJ wasn't playing.

I consider them chip caliber, damn near took out the rockets.

I can't say this for sure, but according my brother's constant *****ing (huge ewing fan), would have beat the rockets in game 6 if not for a bogus offensive foul called on ewing, moving screen or something

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 06:29 PM
Bulls were not title contenders without MJ. They were a well oiled machine that could hold their own. That's like saying the curry warriors pre-durant were title contenders without Curry. Warriors were/are a well oiled machine but they weren't title contenders pre 2017 without curry.

And LeBron ran his best teammate out of town. Annddd played GM and overpaid his role players. But your going to give him a pass for that?

Chronz
05-06-2018, 06:32 PM
I consider them chip caliber, damn near took out the rockets.

I can't say this for sure, but according my brother's constant *****ing (huge ewing fan), would have beat the rockets in game 6 if not for a bogus offensive foul called on ewing, moving screen or something

But Ewing sucked that series. He did help limit Hakeem better than most

nastynice
05-06-2018, 06:32 PM
Yeah Pacers had bruisers in the Davis boys. A soild offensive Center in Smits. Some solid role players and specialists.

I just think it was a different game/era so it's hard to compare. But I'm not one to automatically qualify any current playoff team now as being CF contenders (if played back then) just because they play a more evolved game.

Def hard to compare, I agree.

But let's be honest, since big 3 celtics, d rose bulls, and d12 magic, any team outside of lebron's has been pretty weak

Don't forget Mark Jackson and Derrik Mckey

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:37 PM
And LeBron ran his best teammate out of town. Annddd played GM and overpaid his role players. But your going to give him a pass for that?

Your trolling the wrong guy. I am a MJ homer :laugh:

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 06:38 PM
Your trolling the wrong guy. I am a MJ homer :laugh:

Haha my apologies

Heediot
05-06-2018, 06:40 PM
Def hard to compare, I agree.

But let's be honest, since big 3 celtics, d rose bulls, and d12 magic, any team outside of lebron's has been pretty weak

Don't forget Mark Jackson and Derrik Mckey

Yeah they also had the ref Haywood Workman off the Bench. Older Byron Scott.

Mr.ATLHawks
05-06-2018, 07:25 PM
And LeBron ran his best teammate out of town. Annddd played GM and overpaid his role players. But your going to give him a pass for that?

Kyrie ran himself out of town. He averaged more shot attempts then Bron and Bron let him close games. What more did he want? He wanted to be an alpha and he isnt one, period. Rozier is leading Boston just as well as Kyrie and Boston is on the verge of the ECF without Kyrie or Heyward.

In fact people are even mumbling Kyrie for Leonard trade (not that they'd actually do it) but still. Just shows you how little Boston needs Kyrie at this point.

Jayb587
05-06-2018, 07:32 PM
Kyrie ran himself out of town. He averaged more shot attempts then Bron and Bron let him close games. What more did he want? He wanted to be an alpha and he isnt one, period. Rozier is leading Boston just as well as Kyrie and Boston is on the verge of the ECF without Kyrie or Heyward.

In fact people are even mumbling Kyrie for Leonard trade (not that they'd actually do it) but still. Just shows you how little Boston needs Kyrie at this point.

Yea. Bron belittling him and making him feel like trash had nothing to do with it.

lakerfan85
05-06-2018, 07:41 PM
Haha.. This years Pacers and Raptors teams would be ECF contenders in the Jordan era?? WTF?!!

ewing
05-06-2018, 08:07 PM
Haha.. This years Pacers and Raptors teams would be ECF contenders in the Jordan era?? WTF?!!

Donít forget Horace Grant was much better then Chris Bosh


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ewing
05-06-2018, 08:10 PM
But Ewing sucked that series. He did help limit Hakeem better than most

He averaged 17, 14, and 4 in a series where no one scored more then 90. You are dumb


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FlashBolt
05-06-2018, 08:36 PM
Knicks were legit team back then. Playoffs is also about matchups, they probably matchup badly vs. the Bulls, as the Cavs vs. the Pacers this year. I don't think they were championship caliber but they were CF threats in the early and mid 90's. Finals threats if MJ wasn't playing.

They were a legit team who wouldn't get past leBron because LeBron is LeBron. End of story. You guys act like MJ would tear down every team. Remind me what he was doing before Pippen got there again. Thanks.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 08:37 PM
You're trippin. Replace the cavs with any of those 4 mentioned teams today and that team is going to the finals, without much competition in most cases

What?

What did Jordan face in the East when he won his chips?

Knicks had Ewing and Starks. That's worse than the current Pacers. He lined up opposite of Trent Tucker for a series, come on man.
The 76ers with Barkely and Hawkins. That's about the equivalent of the current Raptors
Bad Boy Pistons don't have an equivalency, but that's not because of talent, I just mean there aren't teams like that today just like there weren't teams like the Warriors then. I'd say in terms of being a good team, it's like the current Celtics. Can find a way to win, despite not having the best talent. If they had Kyrie and Heyward, they would be significantly better than those Pistons
Miami? A young Glen Rice? Bron hasn't faced anyone that bad in a long time
Cleveland had a decent team with Nance and Daughterty, but that's a worse team than the current Raptors
The Hawks with Wilkins and nobody? Way worse than the current Pacers
The Heat later with Mourning and Hardaway? The Wizards are better than them
The Pacers? That's Reggie Miller, aka a worse version of Klay Thompson, and nobody else.

The Magic had the best chance, but Shaq was a baby still, and the team didn't get to stay together with healthy Shaq and Penny with Anderson and Grant and others. That would have been the team to beat Jordan (and they did)


The East was quite bad in the 90's, and it was during an expansion era. Jordan may have faced some Hall of Fame players, but none of them were paired up together and none of them had the talent around them like Jordan did.


The Bulls were title contenders without Jordan. The Cavs are a 25 win team without Bron.

It should be pretty telling what these guys teams were like before they showed up and after they left each time.

Rookie year:
Bulls - 27-55 before Jordan, 38-44 after they drafted him (11 game swing)
Cavs - 17-65 before Bron, 35-47 after they drafted him (18 game swing)


First year after leaving:
Bulls - 57-25, then Jordan retires and they go 55-27 (2 game swing) and should have been in the ECF
Cavs - 61-21, then Bron went to Miami, they then went 19-63 (42 game swing)

When they came back
Bulls - 47-35, though Jordan was a part of some of those years a bit - 72-10 when he returned (with others) - 25 game swing
Cavs - 33-49, Bron then came back (with others) - 53-29 (20 game swing)


Additionally, the Heat:
47-35 then to 58-24 (11 game swing)
Then 54-28 then to 34-45 (20 game swing)


Not counting Heat - Jordan's teams improved a combined 38 games over those three seasons vs Bron's teams saw an 80 game swing over those three seasons (an additional 15.5 game average including Miami)

Jordan had an insane team, built perfectly for him. Outside of some great individuals, Bron has never had a great team to go to war with. Wade and Kyrie are great individual talents. But more isolation ball handlers isn't really a team for him.


The East was trash when Jordan played, it's trash today (in comp)

ewing
05-06-2018, 08:37 PM
Bulls were not title contenders without MJ. They were a well oiled machine that could hold their own. That's like saying the curry warriors pre-durant were title contenders without Curry. Warriors were/are a well oiled machine but they weren't title contenders pre 2017 without curry.

they won 50 games and almost won a game 5 in a 2 to 2 series in the second round, then followed it up by being a .500 team for 2/3s if a season until MJ came back. Facts donít matter to this crew. Decent team not a title contender

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nastynice
05-06-2018, 08:40 PM
What?

What did Jordan face in the East when he won his chips?

Knicks had Ewing and Starks. That's worse than the current Pacers. )

lol, oh. my. god.

Is this real life?

Things started off with a slight disagreement, and look at where we are now. We have people legitimately saying the ewing knicks are on par with the oladipo pacers

This is way too extreme. I get it, we have different opinions on things, but what in the hell???

ewing
05-06-2018, 08:53 PM
lol, oh. my. god.

Is this real life?

Things started off with a slight disagreement, and look at where we are now. We have people legitimately saying the ewing knicks are on par with the oladipo pacers

This is way too extreme. I get it, we have different opinions on things, but what in the hell???

Donít forget Reggie Miller is a worse version of Klay Thompson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 08:55 PM
Tell me, who was on that pacers squad? If Reggie Miller is the only thing that comes to mind then you may not know what the hell you're talking about

That was a squad right there

I love how you downplay miller's pacers and simultaneously pump up today's oladipo pacers, lol

Mark Jackson and Dale Davis? Derrick McKey?

That's a squad?

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 09:05 PM
Bulls were not title contenders without MJ. They were a well oiled machine that could hold their own. That's like saying the curry warriors pre-durant were title contenders without Curry. Warriors were/are a well oiled machine but they weren't title contenders pre 2017 without curry.

Well we never got to see what the Warriors would look like without Curry like we did with Jordan.

Curry's big hurt year, was before the team started competing.

Thompson and Green, and role players would at least be a solid team.

I'd love to see what the Warriors point differential is this year when Thompson and Green are on the court with Durant and Curry out. I promise it's at the same rate of a playoff team.


We know how good the Bulls were without Jordan. They won 55 games and should have been in the ECF and were the 3 seed. They were legit title contenders when Jordan was playing baseball. You absolutely can not say the Cavs would be without Bron right now.

And this was before he got Rodman and Harper, who in my opinion, were more ideal players for him to play next to.


Playing with Rodman and Pippen would be like Bron playing with Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green right now.

No team could beat Bron, Leonard, and Green. Just like no team was going to beat Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. It's the matchup that makes them unbeatable.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 09:09 PM
I don't think a Klay-Dray-Iggy-Bogut-Livingston team are title contenders, that's just me. They probably put up nice regular season advanced stats (Being well coached and running a nice system) and make the stat geeks over-rate them. The deeper they get into the playoffs the more exposed they'd be, just my take. Kind of like ATL a few years back with Bud, and the Raps this year.

I agree.

I don't think title contenders, but very good 50-57 win teams with second round exits.

ewing
05-06-2018, 09:10 PM
Mark Jackson and Dale Davis? Derrick McKey?

That's a squad?

Yes especially when you add a Hof 2 guard and 7í4 elite post scorer. They were good


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valade16
05-06-2018, 09:34 PM
Do we need anymore proof that PSD lives in the moment lol.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 09:36 PM
lol, oh. my. god.

Is this real life?

Things started off with a slight disagreement, and look at where we are now. We have people legitimately saying the ewing knicks are on par with the oladipo pacers

This is way too extreme. I get it, we have different opinions on things, but what in the hell???

Be annoyed or shocked all you want. I don't/didn't think of those Knicks as being worth a whole lot.

Ewing was obviously a very good center, and there were some good players around him. But they are a second round exit today against Bron, just like they were against Jordan.

Jeffy25
05-06-2018, 09:40 PM
Do we need anymore proof that PSD lives in the moment lol.

I definitely don't in life, but I do think Bron deserves Goat conversations with Kareem and Jordan

ODB13
05-06-2018, 11:05 PM
lol, oh. my. god.

Is this real life?

Things started off with a slight disagreement, and look at where we are now. We have people legitimately saying the ewing knicks are on par with the oladipo pacers

This is way too extreme. I get it, we have different opinions on things, but what in the hell???

That comment about today's Pacers and yesterday's Knicks is disqualifying for all future basketball commentary. Don't even bother anymore.

AllBall
05-07-2018, 12:17 AM
WTF thread did I just walk into?

lol just lol if you think the Eastern conference basketball in the 90s was an easier path than today.

You could practically close line someone and it was just a common foul.

Pacers, Knicks, Heat, Bulls...are you kidding me? Top 5 East teams in 50+ wins territory.

Oh, and they got those points the hard way. Driving to the lane with mammoths beating down on you. Not shooting form half court with a defender 20 ft away.

D Blue987
05-07-2018, 12:26 AM
Lebron is going to carry the Cavs to the finals again and in all likelihood they will get spanked AGAIN by one of the greatest teams ever assembled in GS. He has little choice but to leave the Cavs and try to team up with someone else again to try to win another ring.

nastynice
05-07-2018, 12:35 AM
Donít forget Reggie Miller is a worse version of Klay Thompson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol, I'm sure the stats back that up, lmao!!

AllBall
05-07-2018, 12:37 AM
Lebron is going to carry the Cavs to the finals again and in all likelihood they will get spanked AGAIN by one of the greatest teams ever assembled in GS. He has little choice but to leave the Cavs and try to team up with someone else again to try to win another ring.

Lebron was the reason that team was even assembled.

nastynice
05-07-2018, 12:40 AM
That comment about today's Pacers and yesterday's Knicks is disqualifying for all future basketball commentary. Don't even bother anymore.

That had to honestly be the most ridiculous comparison I've heard on this forum, no joke.

I wonder what stats this guy looked up to come to the conclusion that today's oladipo pacers are on par with those knicks?

ODB13
05-07-2018, 01:18 AM
That had to honestly be the most ridiculous comparison I've heard on this forum, no joke.

I wonder what stats this guy looked up to come to the conclusion that today's oladipo pacers are on par with those knicks?

Some obscure and out-of-context stat and lots of "Bron" love.

nastynice
05-07-2018, 01:34 AM
I definitely don't in life, but I do think Bron deserves Goat conversations with Kareem and Jordan

He's a consensus tier 1 all timer. What else do you want?

Its like you do anything short of verbally sucking the guy off and people go bananas...

sorry, I'm watching Bill Burr, I'm typing in his voice, lol!

Mr.ATLHawks
05-07-2018, 01:50 AM
Im not ready to put Lebron over Jordan. If he manages to beat GS with this team, id say it would go a long way into the conversation. Now Kobe....Im comfortable putting Lebron over him.

BKLYNpigeon
05-07-2018, 01:53 AM
So if the Cavs get swept by the Warriors or Rockets in the Finals is the Narrative still the same?

Or do we have the same excuses, Lebron doesn't have enough help?

nastynice
05-07-2018, 02:29 AM
So if the Cavs get swept by the Warriors or Rockets in the Finals is the Narrative still the same?

Or do we have the same excuses, Lebron doesn't have enough help?

Never has. Never will.

When they lose, its cuz all his teammates are crappy. When they win, its because he carried them. There's no doubting his greatness as an individual player, cream of the crop, but its a strange phenomena with him. No matter who's around him, its like 5 on 1

NYKalltheway
05-07-2018, 05:15 AM
Lol, why are people trying so hard to make Lebron seem enormously better than he is?

FlashBolt
05-07-2018, 10:45 AM
Lol, why are people trying so hard to make Lebron seem enormously better than he is?

Maybe ewing would get more respect if he wasn't getting beat down by Hakeem like a bloody pulp

ewing
05-07-2018, 10:48 AM
Maybe ewing would get more respect if he wasn't getting beat down by Hakeem like a bloody pulp

It amazing how far guys like you an Jeffy will go to try and prove a point. Both of you outright lie to fight the idea that LeBron being #2 all time is a valid opinion.

WaDe03
05-07-2018, 11:25 AM
haha... lebrons legacy furthered during games against the most inferior competition he has ever faced...

only on PSD

Honest question, do you think Kobe is better than LeBron?

Jeffy25
05-07-2018, 11:46 AM
It amazing how far guys like you an Jeffy will go to try and prove a point. Both of you outright lie to fight the idea that LeBron being #2 all time is a valid opinion.

I think he is still slightly behind Jordan, next to Kareem in that next tier.

But this fantasy you guys have about the 90's East is comical.

I realize you guys are all fans of the game and era and teams in that conference, but it's overly romanticized and completely irrational.

Of course, that's my opinion.

Yes, the 90's East Knicks are a second round exit team in this era. Maybe a CF here and there depending on matchups.

But you guys are acting like they are title contenders or something. They weren't.

Vee-Rex
05-07-2018, 11:51 AM
Lebron was the reason that team was even assembled.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/give-this-man-lckl1s.jpg

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 12:00 PM
Fully agree.

Warriors, and probably Rockets are the two teams (and a healthy Celtics) that can and probably will beat him. And 76ers have the potential and talent.

What's crazy is that each of those are full squads. Not great individuals leading a team.


This is what I mean by homerism fanatic being incompetent

Warriors have a 2x MVP(great individual player) and only unanimous mvp ever in history and some experts on here have him 11th all time on rankings list and they added the 2nd best 'individual' player of his time after Bron, Rockets were Harden(great individual player) or bust past few yrs until CP3 addition, and he finished top 3 mvp race in each of those seasons so if that isn't a great individual leading a team then I don't know what is, and many picked Rockets in those seasons to win 45 games, when last time a Lebron led team was picked to win 45 games max in a season? i'll wait a long time for that answer

a healthy Celtics team would wipe the floor with this current Cavs squad, too much team defense / heart / execution / coaching adjustments, and Irving is about as good a individual player you can get, dropped 28ppg or so against Golden St with Bron, don't get no more big time than that

but I fully agree that Bron is also a 'great' individual leading his team, I would pick him over those players to start a team from scratch, it is what it be

Lebron has had a all star sidekick rather aged or still in apex since Jamison got there and Shaq, they were just aged and not at highest apex as previous seasons but some on here(jasonlittlejohn) feel age doesn't matter that's why I mentioned it just to show that it absolutely does matter as far as production / minutes played are concerned

Bron went to Wade / Bosh / Riley and back to Love / Irving / Gilbert bank account, so how is this not great individuals thing working out for you once you flip both sides of the coin? you are looking at if from a pure homer fanatic POV, cut it out

K Love and his injuries has hindered him somewhat but before he joined Cavs he was putting up 25 and 14, that is serious production to hand gift to Lebron for a 1yr unproven commodity who still hasn't lived up to his supposed 'natural talent / gifts', and on top of that got a max extension for not showing potential but still might someday

Bron is such a genius he left a older broken down version in Wade for a younger version in Irving and that younger version is back on the injured shelf less than a year later, so Bron made a genius call and traded a injured player for injured player and got rid of both for a healthy player(s) in Clarkson / Nance, hey its not a knock out the park trade but last I checked availability is the most valuable attribute a player / performer can have, and those guys are available rather they get clock or not is a coaches decision

Bron is GM / MVP of the league every year since 11', well co - GM with Riley, Riley still owed veto power because of seniority with org., so Bron went to college for 4yrs there,graduated and went back home after realizing he had not only a younger version of Wade and a similar player to Bosh in Love waiting there in the wings since he was behind the scenes orchestrating that K Love deal for that 1 year NCAA unproven nba over rated Kansas supposed superstar, Wilt Chamb, I mean Andrew Wiggins

that sounds to me like a all time dominant player getting with others who are / were perennial all star / nba caliber players

ODB13
05-07-2018, 12:14 PM
"Bron" fanboy logic:

Knicks team that took Olajuwan's Rockets to seven < The Oladipo Pacers

How can you have a rational discussion with people who will go this irrational to make "Bron Bron" look good?

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:33 PM
This current Pacers and Raptors teams are very good teams. And they would be ECF contenders and threats in Jordan's day no problem.


I'd argue that you are either not watching the full Cavs games and what Bron is doing, or you have completely ignored the box scores and stats, or you have your head in your *** and aren't aware that basketball is being played.

What he is doing on both ends of the court with very little help is incredible. In an era where no individual can do what he's doing. And Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc wouldn't have been able to.

what I expected... people that don't get it

LBJ's legacy is already secured... other than chips nothing he does now adds to it except for those wanting to argue he is better than MJ...

I rarely argue who is GOAT because it is a wasted exercise as the players played in different era's

There will always be 5-7 players in the GOAT discussion so to create a false narrative like the OP did here is absurd...

LBJ is already clearly the GOAT in his era and is in that group of 5-7 players since the leagues inception..

so pardon me if I won't be indulging in the intended dick sucking that is suppose to accompany this thread

Heediot
05-07-2018, 12:34 PM
They were a legit team who wouldn't get past leBron because LeBron is LeBron. End of story. You guys act like MJ would tear down every team. Remind me what he was doing before Pippen got there again. Thanks.

Whether they can beat LeBron or Jordan doesn't really matter to me. They were a respected and we'll coached team. They were a defensive bruising type of team.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 12:37 PM
"Bron" fanboy logic:

Knicks team that took Olajuwan's Rockets to seven < The Oladipo Pacers

How can you have a rational discussion with people who will go this irrational to make "Bron Bron" look good?

and to piggyback off what you are saying, the fanatics / fanboy are the worst on tv / radio

I just happen to catch this incompetent fanatic who goes by C Cowherd, and he just made pretty much a equal dumb statement to the one you mentioned

C Cowherd: if you take KD off Golden St they can still win 15 out of 20 games but if you take Bron off Cavs they would be basically winless with a probable chance of I guess winning 5 games max out of same span

now this is strictly C Cowherd being a supreme fanatic / fanboy and not flipping the coin as usual and also stating that:

if you switch KD to Cavs and Bron to Warriors then the same scenario is used to boost up KD, take Bron off for 20 games and the Warriors win same amount and take KD off this current Cavs team and they are in the **** hole just as equally from a challenging perspective

that's why I mean by incompetent fanatics / fanboys, media is the worst since they brainwash the masses to ''appeal to their authority''

Heediot
05-07-2018, 12:39 PM
I think both Jordan and LeBron have the world class work ethic, athleticism, ball iq, and feel to adjust to either era.

Arguing about competition to me is futile. Different era, Different teams/styles etc. Different level of opponents both to and at the finals. I'm not one to argue about rings and competition.

I think both guys can adjust and get what they want with their respective tool boxes. I personally take Jordan based in his mental makeup and intangibles.

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:40 PM
wow youre right. i forgot that Love and Kyrie were out.

these well rounded 1 seed teams seem to do worse and against LeBron than teams with explosive guards or wings who can challenge LeBron. Indy 18, Indy with George and Butler Bulls teams. even last years Boston right- top seed, get destroyed.

in my gut, I just don't see them as your classically average 1 seed. but by the numbers, of course they are. something about those teams that's beyond the numbers. its almost like they don't believe they can beat lebron, so i dont either. these close games, the blown tip ins from game one. I dont think they believe they can win. too much fear. makes them come off as a weaker opponent then they are on paper. but yea, plenty were worse.

That's because the regular season is meaningless when it comes to the playoffs especially when your "stars"
like Derozan and Lowry shrink in the moment like the *****es they are.

LBJ is playing great and basically carrying the team like he did before he went to Miami... none of this should surprise anyone

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:43 PM
This Raptors team beats the Jazz that gave Michael so much trouble. Stockton isn't much better than Lowry, and while I love Malone he'd have to deal with one of the better defenders in the history of the league. Derozan and Val would look unstoppble in their matchups.

This Raptors team compares favorably to pretty much any team Michael beat. You subtract the top two players from most teams in the 90s and they are trash. Ironically, I credit Jordan with this. He made the league so much more popular than it was that 20 years later you're seeing the difference between his time and when I grew up (I'm 31 now).

If I grew up in the 60s I'd of ended up being obsessed with boxing as a child, but in the 80s it was all about that round ball. Jordan fans should take it as a compliment that LeBron has CLEARLY surpassed him. And that the NBA is the premiere league for elite athletes in the world.

LMFAO

PSD is always good for some laughs

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 12:44 PM
what I expected... people that don't get it

LBJ's legacy is already secured... other than chips nothing he does now adds to it except for those wanting to argue he is better than MJ...

I rarely argue who is GOAT because it is a wasted exercise as the players played in different era's

There will always be 5-7 players in the GOAT discussion so to create a false narrative like the OP did here is absurd...

LBJ is already clearly the GOAT in his era and is in that group of 5-7 players since the leagues inception..

so pardon me if I won't be indulging in the intended dick sucking that is suppose to accompany this thread


Take'em to chuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch

this is what I said when I posted Bron is in my circle of 25 most dominant / best players ever, they were crying behind the keyboards for me to post his number / ranking and I was like for what? I would draft him anywhere between 1 -25

I take the 60's - current era and get 5 players from each era I would draft over all others, that's how I decipher who is the best, not PER / TS / Raw - advanced numbers or any other alphabet letter gang that doesn't have the game film / full roster attached

these fanatics are on here trying to prop up Bron when he was already to me one of the best most dominant players after his ROY season in 2003 - 04 season, this is year 2018 so I see it took a long while for everyone to catch up, so how am I supposed to react today when I had him in my circle 15yrs ago? hell I had in when I watched him on tv pre - NBA

But now I am supposed to figure out something already self explanatory years ago, shame on those false fanatics who know nothing of basketball outside of advanced stats

eye test / game film is absolute supreme, you cant watch supreme talent on paper / box score, and if stats don't come attached with game film its not truly validated

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:44 PM
For someone who prides himself on "objectivity" this is a bunch of conjecture from someone obviously new to this sport.

Stick to baseball and golf, sports where individual performance can be quantified reliably. You actually have to understand how this sport is played to remark on it.

LMFAO

I tried not to be as scathing but +1

ewing
05-07-2018, 12:45 PM
I think he is still slightly behind Jordan, next to Kareem in that next tier.

But this fantasy you guys have about the 90's East is comical.

I realize you guys are all fans of the game and era and teams in that conference, but it's overly romanticized and completely irrational.

Of course, that's my opinion.

Yes, the 90's East Knicks are a second round exit team in this era. Maybe a CF here and there depending on matchups.

But you guys are acting like they are title contenders or something. They weren't.

They lost in game 7 of the NBA finals and in a game 7 of the ECFs with a chance to win at the buzzer the next year. They certainly were a title contender and shouldn't be compared to the 2017 Pacers. Weather they would be a contender in the current era where with different rules, norms, etc is irreverent. They were on a totally different level then 2017 Pacers.

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:46 PM
Toronto was top five in offense/defense and the third best team in the regular season. They're only trash because LeBron beats them, I guess. And these kids think LeBron is playing with NBA legends on his squad. It's hilarious. Curry can go to sleep for an entire season and rounds 1/2 in the playoffs and his team will still be favorites to win the ring but this clown NastyNice wants to convince us that LeBron is the one playing vs trash. Lol.

The mighty Raptors...

taken to 7 games by the Wizards...

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:47 PM
You're right bro, the 9 seed in the west could legitimately beat out the one seed in the east in a series, but oh my God, everyone look out for that eastern conference competition!!

Philly and Boston will soon become legit squads. As for right now, COOKIES!!

scary but true

nastynice
05-07-2018, 12:47 PM
I think he is still slightly behind Jordan, next to Kareem in that next tier.

But this fantasy you guys have about the 90's East is comical.

I realize you guys are all fans of the game and era and teams in that conference, but it's overly romanticized and completely irrational.

Of course, that's my opinion.

Yes, the 90's East Knicks are a second round exit team in this era. Maybe a CF here and there depending on matchups.

But you guys are acting like they are title contenders or something. They weren't.

The knicks were a three pointer away from beating the rockets in 6. How is that not a title contender?

There's nothing to romantacize about the 90's east, there was nothing special about it, the west at the time was still better and deeper

What I AM saying is the east wasn't the dumpster fire it is today. Right now if you take lebron out of the east, non playoff teams in the west are arguably better than one seeds in the east. You can say that for a number of years the 9, 10 seeds out west were on par with the 3, 4 seeds in the east. The eastern conference is a legitimate joke. It sure as hell wasn't in the mid 90's.

Again, not saying it was a juggernaut, but it wasn't a joke like today. They had actual legit squads back then.

WaDe03
05-07-2018, 12:49 PM
what I expected... people that don't get it

LBJ's legacy is already secured... other than chips nothing he does now adds to it except for those wanting to argue he is better than MJ...

I rarely argue who is GOAT because it is a wasted exercise as the players played in different era's

There will always be 5-7 players in the GOAT discussion so to create a false narrative like the OP did here is absurd...

LBJ is already clearly the GOAT in his era and is in that group of 5-7 players since the leagues inception..

so pardon me if I won't be indulging in the intended dick sucking that is suppose to accompany this thread

What do you have against sucking dick?

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:53 PM
Do we need anymore proof that PSD lives in the moment lol.

nope... but it is good for some laughs at least

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 12:56 PM
They lost in game 7 of the NBA finals and in a game 7 of the ECFs with a chance to win at the buzzer the next year. They certainly were a title contender and shouldn't be compared to the 2017 Pacers. Weather they would be a contender in the current era where with different rules, norms, etc is irreverent. They were on a totally different level then 2017 Pacers.

Those Pacers teams from like 1995 - 2000 were better than this Pacers crop as well, for anyone to even mention this Pacers vs those 90's Knicks must don't value Finals / conf. trips at all, those Knicks even blew a 2 - 0 lead against Jordan in I think 1993 series, it was more rugby style but that was the era they were in, just as in the 60's when Wilt got his teethed knocked out from the rough shed style of play due to his supreme dominance

this is why Bron and possibly others can easily play until 40 because of the lack of physicality / rim resistance and I sware 20x per game they look at the weakest fouls for wasted minutes every game trying to figure out if a poke on the nose accidentally while trying to block a shot is a 'flagrant foul'

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 12:57 PM
Honest question, do you think Kobe is better than LeBron?

what does better mean?

but generally no... LBJ has the numbers and because of his physical characeristics should be considered the better player.

If the question is who did more with his gifts its a much closer conversation

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 01:01 PM
what does better mean?

but generally no... LBJ has the numbers and because of his physical characeristics should be considered the better player.

If the question is who did more with his gifts its a much closer conversation

he is basically asking you who would you draft first to start your team

and the simple answer is Bron, not taking nothing away from Kobe but it is what it be

I would take Wilt overall 1st in any era

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 01:03 PM
Take'em to chuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch

this is what I said when I posted Bron is in my circle of 25 most dominant / best players ever, they were crying behind the keyboards for me to post his number / ranking and I was like for what? I would draft him anywhere between 1 -25

I take the 60's - current era and get 5 players from each era I would draft over all others, that's how I decipher who is the best, not PER / TS / Raw - advanced numbers or any other alphabet letter gang that doesn't have the game film / full roster attached

these fanatics are on here trying to prop up Bron when he was already to me one of the best most dominant players after his ROY season in 2003 - 04 season, this is year 2018 so I see it took a long while for everyone to catch up, so how am I supposed to react today when I had him in my circle 15yrs ago? hell I had in when I watched him on tv pre - NBA

But now I am supposed to figure out something already self explanatory years ago, shame on those false fanatics who know nothing of basketball outside of advanced stats

eye test / game film is absolute supreme, you cant watch supreme talent on paper / box score, and if stats don't come attached with game film its not truly validated

yep...

its kind of funny for men on a public forum wanting to suck off another dude ... but whatever works for them

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 01:04 PM
he is basically asking you who would you draft first to start your team

and the simple answer is Bron, not taking nothing away from Kobe but it is what it be

I would take Wilt overall 1st in any era

Oh... if that was the question .... then of course Lebron. All he had to do was ask directly

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 01:06 PM
What do you have against sucking dick?

nothing if that is your thing but judging from the posters on here it doesn't seem to be their thing unless LBJ is involved...

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 01:25 PM
Your trolling the wrong guy. I am a MJ homer :laugh:


Haha my apologies

(In my Steve Irwin voice)
Now here we see two haters in a mating ritual. Confusion has occurred and they will sprinkle each other with kind remarks in order to re-fortify, there unique bond. Krieky...beautiful ainít it.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 01:27 PM
Donít forget Reggie Miller is a worse version of Klay Thompson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never seen Reggie throw up 35 in a quarter or be limited by playing with 2 top 5 scorers in NBA history.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 01:34 PM
Maybe ewing would get more respect if he wasn't getting beat down by Hakeem like a bloody pulp

Drob dumps 45/16 on Pat here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 01:54 PM
I think both Jordan and LeBron have the world class work ethic, athleticism, ball iq, and feel to adjust to either era.

Arguing about competition to me is futile. Different era, Different teams/styles etc. Different level of opponents both to and at the finals. I'm not one to argue about rings and competition.

I think both guys can adjust and get what they want with their respective tool boxes. I personally take Jordan based in his mental makeup and intangibles.

Well put

mngopher35
05-07-2018, 01:59 PM
His plan should be to beat the Warriors if he wants to be labeled the goat. It won't happen but that could get some people on board IMO

ewing
05-07-2018, 02:01 PM
Never seen Reggie throw up 35 in a quarter or be limited by playing with 2 top 5 scorers in NBA history.

was a fun quarter.

ewing
05-07-2018, 02:03 PM
What do you have against sucking dick?

that guy is selfish

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 02:10 PM
Never seen Reggie throw up 35 in a quarter or be limited by playing with 2 top 5 scorers in NBA history.

never saw KT get 8 points in 9 seconds in a playoff game to win the game...

ODB13
05-07-2018, 02:23 PM
Never seen Reggie throw up 35 in a quarter or be limited by playing with 2 top 5 scorers in NBA history.

Is this real? Holy cow...

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 02:26 PM
Is this real? Holy cow...

The regular season... where "certain" fans think legends are made

Wrigheyes4MVP
05-07-2018, 02:33 PM
Lebron will be #2 all time by the time he retires.

MJ had a better supporting cast in his later years, but let's not act like Lebron didn't have a great supporting cast for several years up until this season. And no one can deny the level of competition for Lebron in the East has been sub par.

I don't blame Lebron for losing to the Warriors though. I don't think MJ would have beaten this team either. This Warriors team is one of the all time great teams and they're unfair. It's because Durant is a POS who has no balls. The truth is, it's hard to compare Lebron and MJ because Lebron has either been facing weaker Eastern Conference teams or an impossible Warriors team. If we had a larger sample for Lebron against some of the top teams in the West not named Golden State, then I think it would make this question easier to answer. With that said, Lebron did lose a couple of finals against such teams during his prime (Mavs, Spurs). MJ probably doesn't lose to teams like that during his prime. Those teams were like the equivalent of the top Western teams MJ faced and beat in the finals. I'm sorry, but Lebron beating the Raptors year after year doesn't prove much in a debate for GOAT against MJ.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 02:35 PM
never saw KT get 8 points in 9 seconds in a playoff game to win the game...

My sample size Is 80x larger thus 80x more meaningful, so whatever thatís worth in terms of scoring, x mine by 80.

However I did see Rodney Rodgers do it. So... I donít know, what Klay did is a record they keep so...

I think Rodney scored 9 though so...

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 02:38 PM
My sample size Is 80x larger thus 80x more meaningful, so whatever thatís worth in terms of scoring, x mine by 80.

However I did see Rodney Rodgers do it. So... I donít know, what Klay did is a record they keep so...

I think Rodney scored 9 though so...

yep... a meaningless game against the Kings is the same as a playoff game...

ewing
05-07-2018, 02:39 PM
My sample size Is 80x larger thus 80x more meaningful, so whatever thatís worth in terms of scoring, x mine by 80.

However I did see Rodney Rodgers do it. So... I donít know, what Klay did is a record they keep so...

Rodney Rocking Rogers is the real goat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 02:42 PM
yep... a meaningless game against the Kings is the same as a playoff game...

They were both equally challenging though lol. Iím talking about who is better, not who made you wetter?

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 02:44 PM
They were both equally challenging though lol. Iím talking about who is better, not who made you wetter?

see that's the thing... I like Klay and can't stand Reggie... I don't let my feelings bias my analysis

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 02:59 PM
see that's the thing... I like Klay and can't stand Reggie... I don't let my feelings bias my analysis

But thatís exactly what you are doing letting the moment get you hot and bothered, making you think it was harder. Rodneyís was arguably harder, Klay was arguably harder.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 03:01 PM
see that's the thing... I like Klay and can't stand Reggie... I don't let my feelings bias my analysis

Furthermore, your dismissing my quarter and holding dear to 9 seconds which also shows itís ďjust one of them days.Ē That is wifey logic...men am I lying? I do think u are a man though, but you just thinking like wifey right now.

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 03:04 PM
But thatís exactly what you are doing letting the moment get you hot and bothered, making you think it was harder. Rodneyís was arguably harder, Klay was arguably harder.

context matters... to think otherwise is absurd

not to mention your whole take down of Miller is to somehow prop up your boy...

I have no vested interest... like I said ... I like klay and cant stand reggie

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 03:14 PM
context matters... to think otherwise is absurd

not to mention your whole take down of Miller is to somehow prop up your boy...

I have no vested interest... like I said ... I like klay and cant stand reggie

Iím not taking down Miller, but Klay may be better. But context matters little during a 9 second high level of difficulty blurb in time. 9 sec matters less than anything ever brought up so youíve already lost. Especially when it comes to scoring. Especially when the man who did it better is Rodney Rogers. 9 seconds bro...really...9 seconds....well hey, this is the only way Rodney Rogers could find relevancy on here so bravo for that

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 03:20 PM
Iím not taking down Miller, but Klay may be better. But context matters little during a 9 second high level of difficulty blurb in time. 9 sec matters less than anything ever brought up so youíve already lost. Especially when it comes to scoring. Especially when the man who did it better is Rodney Rogers. 9 seconds bro...really...9 seconds....well hey, this is the only way Rodney Rogers could find relevancy on here so bravo for that

RR ... lol

might want to check who ended up winning that game ... not to mention that RR had his **** swatted when they needed him to make a bucket...

but yeah... you seem a little lost on context

burtgummer
05-07-2018, 03:31 PM
Michael Jordan is 6-0 in the championships with 6 mvp's
LBJ is 2-4 I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it to the finals again this year but again he'll choke it away just like he usually does
If he wins 4 more rings before he hangs it up then yeah he is the GOAT but until then I wish the OP would stop his LBJ lovefest

ewing
05-07-2018, 03:34 PM
Iím not taking down Miller, but Klay may be better. But context matters little during a 9 second high level of difficulty blurb in time. 9 sec matters less than anything ever brought up so youíve already lost. Especially when it comes to scoring. Especially when the man who did it better is Rodney Rogers. 9 seconds bro...really...9 seconds....well hey, this is the only way Rodney Rogers could find relevancy on here so bravo for that

Klay is not better. Reggie was a legit #1 option on a winning team for a long time. He was also a guy that did his best work when needed most- weather it be 4th quarter or playoffs. He also did it playing on a team that made it hard to efficient. That sword cuts both way when you plod and bully like that. Reggie was just a better basketball player.

Heediot
05-07-2018, 03:58 PM
Klay is not better. Reggie was a legit #1 option on a winning team for a long time. He was also a guy that did his best work when needed most- weather it be 4th quarter or playoffs. He also did it playing on a team that made it hard to efficient. That sword cuts both way when you plod and bully like that. Reggie was just a better basketball player.

Scoring back then was more creative. Nowadays things are more systematic, shoot a 3 or drive to the hole, sprinkle in a few mid range shots once in a while. Perimeter players back then needed more tools in their arsenal to be a highly effective scorer. Both these guys aren't the greatest ball handlers, but Reggie is way more crafty. Klay the way better defender. I think Reggie is the better offensive player based on skill and would thrive in both eras, not too sure Klay's game translate in Reggie's era.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:09 PM
Klay is not better. Reggie was a legit #1 option on a winning team for a long time. He was also a guy that did his best work when needed most- weather it be 4th quarter or playoffs. He also did it playing on a team that made it hard to efficient. That sword cuts both way when you plod and bully like that. Reggie was just a better basketball player.

And he won nothing for his troubles. I watched his hole career. Without screens and relentless running around in circles, heíd be hard pressed to keep those numbers. He has the worst handle of a wing. His range and leg kick out helped him create it but Klay has more talent. Reggie was mentally tougher, but Klay can get there.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:12 PM
RR ... lol

might want to check who ended up winning that game ... not to mention that RR had his **** swatted when they needed him to make a bucket...

but yeah... you seem a little lost on context

You have failed to counter a single point in 3 replies. Yet ur still replying. Yuk

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:13 PM
Michael Jordan is 6-0 in the championships with 6 mvp's
LBJ is 2-4 I wouldn't be surprised if he makes it to the finals again this year but again he'll choke it away just like he usually does
If he wins 4 more rings before he hangs it up then yeah he is the GOAT but until then I wish the OP would stop his LBJ lovefest

Kid, ur a hating idiot. I feel sad for you.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:17 PM
Scoring back then was more creative. Nowadays things are more systematic, shoot a 3 or drive to the hole, sprinkle in a few mid range shots once in a while. Perimeter players back then needed more tools in their arsenal to be a highly effective scorer. Both these guys aren't the greatest ball handlers, but Reggie is way more crafty. Klay the way better defender. I think Reggie is the better offensive player based on skill and would thrive in both eras, not too sure Klay's game translate in Reggie's era.

Ummm, no...the level of ball handling in this era destroys that era. There has never been a guy close to Steph when it comes to creatively and unbelievably getting his shot off, or near effective at doing so. All Reggie and a Ray did was run off screens. Curry is pulling up from 40 like ďgood lookĒ

ewing
05-07-2018, 04:18 PM
And he won nothing for his troubles. I watched his hole career. Without screens and relentless running around in circles, heíd be hard pressed to keep those numbers. He has the worst handle of a wing. His range and leg kick out helped him create it but Klay has more talent. Reggie was mentally tougher, but Klay can get there.

He won a lot and your description describes Klay more accurately then Reggie. Reggie had a much better post and mid range game then Klay

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:20 PM
He won a lot and your description describes Klay more accurately then Reggie. Reggie had a much better post and mid range game then Klay

Klay won more, and has hardware. Reggie has none.

valade16
05-07-2018, 04:39 PM
Klay won more, and has hardware. Reggie has none.

Klay has won more... as the 3rd/4th best player on a team. If Klay was the best player on a team ala Reggie, he wouldn't have won anything.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 04:41 PM
Klay has won more... as the 3rd/4th best player on a team. If Klay was the best player on a team ala Reggie, he wouldn't have won anything.

True, but he may average 27 a game, he may lead the league in scoring. He can easily drop 60 when he gets hot, and if he was getting fed to get hot every game of his career as a #1, Iím confident heíd blow Reggieís stats away.

tredigs
05-07-2018, 04:52 PM
True, but he may average 27 a game, he may lead the league in scoring. He can easily drop 60 when he gets hot, and if he was getting fed to get hot every game of his career as a #1, Iím confident heíd blow Reggieís stats away.

You're out of your element. Reggie was a cutthroat scorer who always went up against the teams best perimeter defender. As is, Klay gets more shots up than Reggie ever did. He'd have to average almost 9 more attempts a game then prime Reggie to put up 27. We've seen more than enough from Klay when asked to be a #1 option to realize he's not that guy. Miller is very clearly the better player.

Jeffy25
05-07-2018, 05:01 PM
You're out of your element. Reggie was a cutthroat scorer who always went up against the teams best perimeter defender. As is, Klay gets more shots up than Reggie ever did. He'd have to average almost 9 more attempts a game then prime Reggie to put up 27. We've seen more than enough from Klay when asked to be a #1 option to realize he's not that guy. Miller is very clearly the better player.

Let's call Reggie's prime 90-98 (9 seasons)

He scored 21.2 PPG on 14.2 FGA

Klay has been in his prime the last four years. In that time, he has scored 21.6 PPG on 17 attempts per night.

Even if we drop him 10%, he likely isn't as efficient as a scorer as Reggie, but if a team let him shoot 20 shots per night, he's probably averaging 25-26 per night.

Reggie was the leading scorer for his teams, but he still didn't shoot as much as people probably remember him shooting.
He was only taking 13-15 shots per night during his prime.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 05:24 PM
You're out of your element. Reggie was a cutthroat scorer who always went up against the teams best perimeter defender. As is, Klay gets more shots up than Reggie ever did. He'd have to average almost 9 more attempts a game then prime Reggie to put up 27. We've seen more than enough from Klay when asked to be a #1 option to realize he's not that guy. Miller is very clearly the better player.

Sprewell and Mitch were better scorers in there prime. They better than Klay too?

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 05:33 PM
You have failed to counter a single point in 3 replies. Yet ur still replying. Yuk

and you have effectively turned a GOAT discussion into a reggie vs klay thread so you don't have to talk about your boy Lebron


well done.. .the spinning and misdirection is awe inspiring

Heediot
05-07-2018, 05:33 PM
Ummm, no...the level of ball handling in this era destroys that era. There has never been a guy close to Steph when it comes to creatively and unbelievably getting his shot off, or near effective at doing so. All Reggie and a Ray did was run off screens. Curry is pulling up from 40 like ďgood lookĒ

Sure there a few creative players now, but not as much the past due to the rules and the way they are coached up. With the lack of hand check and no touch perimeter rules, it's a lot easier create your own space and get to your spots in this era. Back then players mixed up their games a lot more. Guys had mid range games, driving to the hole, more post ups, three ball also. They mixed it up more and had to be more skillful and creative in setting up the defender. Yeah Curry is creative, his off the ball game is creative and crafty like Reggie's. On the ball he's one the better guys that knows how to use the threat of his three ball to set up his defender. His release off the dribble is too quick. For PG's him and Kyrie are creative. Lillard to a smaller extent. RWB, Giannis, and Simmons are examples of guys that thrive with simple offenses. Even Derozan and his mid range game is pretty simple and not that creative. That's why the Raptors get exposed in the playoffs, Him and Lowry lack the creativity . Geezers, Wade and Manu have their moments cuz they are creative and crafty IMO. In their prime these guys are top playoff performers.

TBH, even the playoffs the last couple of years is lacking in defense. Offenses are getting better and better at taking advantage of the rules. The league likes it this way, I don't expect them to tinker it much to help the defense. What I expect is if the defense somehow catches up, the league wil probably find a way to help the offense counter and get ahead again by tinkering in the O's favour.

tredigs
05-07-2018, 05:37 PM
Sprewell and Mitch were better scorers in there prime. They better than Klay too?

Not sure what you're trying to prove by complete shifting the argument. Reggie was very obviously better than Klay.

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 05:40 PM
Let's call Reggie's prime 90-98 (9 seasons)

He scored 21.2 PPG on 14.2 FGA

Klay has been in his prime the last four years. In that time, he has scored 21.6 PPG on 17 attempts per night.

Even if we drop him 10%, he likely isn't as efficient as a scorer as Reggie, but if a team let him shoot 20 shots per night, he's probably averaging 25-26 per night.

Reggie was the leading scorer for his teams, but he still didn't shoot as much as people probably remember him shooting.
He was only taking 13-15 shots per night during his prime.

wow ... lots of meaningless numbers and data since there is no discussion of pace

I know how you like you some numbers and data though...

Reggies teams averaged around 90 possessions per game while GS averages around 102.8 this year (regular season)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/possessions-per-game?date=2018-05-07

Jeffy25
05-07-2018, 05:45 PM
wow ... lots of meaningless numbers and data since there is no discussion of pace

I know how you like you some numbers and data though...

Reggies teams averaged around 90 possessions per game while GS averages around 102.8 this year (regular season)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/possessions-per-game?date=2018-05-07

You can stop getting so upset so easily.

I didn't dismiss Reggie. His shots per night were about 14 per game. With that, he scored an average of about 1.25 points per possession. Thompson just a tick below that same rate. If given 20 shots per night on this hypothetical team that he is the leading scorer on, he should be expected to get around 25 per night.

You guys get awfully upset and critical about arguments/assertions and don't even know the argument being presented before you shout off.

It would be reasonable to expect Thompson to score around that number if he was allowed to shoot 20 per night, even if he was less efficient and had less space and the number per possession dropped a little due to drawing less talent around him.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 05:45 PM
and you have effectively turned a GOAT discussion into a reggie vs klay thread so you don't have to talk about your boy Lebron


well done.. .the spinning and misdirection is awe inspiring

You won the spin battle easily...and as far as not have to be talking about Bron...money speaks for itself.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 05:54 PM
Not sure what you're trying to prove by complete shifting the argument. Reggie was very obviously better than Klay.

The heat level of Klay is thus far unmatched. I watched Reggieís whole career. Great player. Klay may be better.

Look at the diff between Bosh and Love as 1st and 3rd options from a productivity and especially a CONSISTENCY standpoint. Letís look at there 5 best games

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 05:54 PM
You can stop getting so upset so easily.

I didn't dismiss Reggie. His shots per night were about 14 per game. With that, he scored an average of about 1.25 points per possession. Thompson just a tick below that same rate. If given 20 shots per night on this hypothetical team that he is the leading scorer on, he should be expected to get around 25 per night.

You guys get awfully upset and critical about arguments/assertions and don't even know the argument being presented before you shout off.

It would be reasonable to expect Thompson to score around that number if he was allowed to shoot 20 per night, even if he was less efficient and had less space and the number per possession dropped a little due to drawing less talent around him.

lololololol

the pts per game are a function of possessions

I guess even though you like numbers and data you really don't understand much about them

As for Klay... I really like Klay.... As for Reggie... I can't stand him... although I give him the respect he deserves...

give me a call in Klays age 34 season to see how he is doing ... that would be the year Reggie played the Lakers in the finals

Jeffy25
05-07-2018, 05:55 PM
lololololol

the pts per game are a function of possessions

I guess even though you like numbers and data you really don't understand much about them

As for Klay... I really like Klay.... As for Reggie... I can't stand him... although I give him the respect he deserves...

give me a call in Klays age 34 season to see how he is doing ... that would be the year Reggie played the Lakers in the finals

Dude, obviously.

I have no idea how you aren't understanding this, but in order to argue, you keep shifting the argument and goal posts. It's pointless.

tredigs
05-07-2018, 06:07 PM
The heat level of Klay is thus far unmatched. I watched Reggieís whole career. Great player. Klay may be better.

Look at the diff between Bosh and Love as 1st and 3rd options from a productivity and especially a CONSISTENCY standpoint. Letís look at there 5 best games
The heat level that occurs once every few weeks? One that is far more likely to occur on a team like GS than the suffocating Bron ball style? Your points are crap here brother.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 06:24 PM
Dude, obviously.

I have no idea how you aren't understanding this, but in order to argue, you keep shifting the argument and goal posts. It's pointless.

Thatís his meat and potatoís...zero substance. I literally checked him for the exact same thing about 10 posts back. Itís 100% real and not a game...well to him itís a game, but itís annoying for me when you prove someone wrong and they eject aka type bs...oh well...Iíll just continue to knowhoops.

IKnowHoops
05-07-2018, 06:26 PM
The heat level that occurs once every few weeks? One that is far more likely to occur on a team like GS than the suffocating Bron ball style? Your points are crap here brother.

Iím not saying heíd be better with Bron, Iím saying he may be better than Reggie Miller given the chance as a full fledged #1. Thatís it

R. Johnson#3
05-07-2018, 06:34 PM
I'm a firm believer that MJ is currently the GOAT. Having said that, if Lebron wins the title this year then he will be the new GOAT. 6/6 with 6 MVPs is amazing but if Lebron beats the best team ever assembled with this Cavs roster then he's the GOAT. Hands down.

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 06:43 PM
True, but he may average 27 a game, he may lead the league in scoring. He can easily drop 60 when he gets hot, and if he was getting fed to get hot every game of his career as a #1, Iím confident heíd blow Reggieís stats away.

Stop reaching for straws, you just folded by agreeing

and if Klay were on the Kings as number one option the defense scheme he would see would be geared toward a number one option so yea he would get hot but boy would he have those cold days in more abundance as he does being the 3rd option

that's what you guys keep glossing over, the defensive attention as a 1st option, Reggie was just a catch and shoot with an occasional drive to basket but he was strictly coming off screens to shoot which limited his scoring because outside of him kicking his leg out to draw contact he didn't have a killer arsenal of moves but his deadly shooting kept you scrambling all game, and his clutch gene was right there with Jordan, fearless competitor and shotmaker

Klay has a better drive game but he doesn't have opportunity to showcase it so he does what he does like Miller, I already posted in a thread a while ago I felt Klay could get around 25 - 27ppg as number 1 option but his team wouldn't be making no deep postseason runs and he definitely wouldn't be going for a 3rd ring and 4th straight Finals trip

europagnpilgrim
05-07-2018, 06:46 PM
I'm a firm believer that MJ is currently the GOAT. Having said that, if Lebron wins the title this year then he will be the new GOAT. 6/6 with 6 MVPs is amazing but if Lebron beats the best team ever assembled with this Cavs roster then he's the GOAT. Hands down.


Who made the criteria for this 'GOAT'?

When did the 'GOAT' brand take over the ''Best / Most Dominant'' brand?

who would you draft 1st to build your team from scratch

Jordan or Lebron?

that's how you decide and not worry about a media created ''GOAT'' / Baphomet

once you figure out who you would draft you don't ever have to worry about Lebron winning another ring, especially if you chose him over Jordan, you are the GM and cant really go wrong with either player

FlashBolt
05-07-2018, 07:02 PM
Who made the criteria for this 'GOAT'?

When did the 'GOAT' brand take over the ''Best / Most Dominant'' brand?

who would you draft 1st to build your team from scratch

Jordan or Lebron?

that's how you decide and not worry about a media created ''GOAT'' / Baphomet

once you figure out who you would draft you don't ever have to worry about Lebron winning another ring, especially if you chose him over Jordan, you are the GM and cant really go wrong with either player

First post I finally agree with. And with that being said, I'll take Jordan just because I think it's easier to build around him.

ewing
05-07-2018, 07:38 PM
Stop reaching for straws, you just folded by agreeing

and if Klay were on the Kings as number one option the defense scheme he would see would be geared toward a number one option so yea he would get hot but boy would he have those cold days in more abundance as he does being the 3rd option

that's what you guys keep glossing over, the defensive attention as a 1st option, Reggie was just a catch and shoot with an occasional drive to basket but he was strictly coming off screens to shoot which limited his scoring because outside of him kicking his leg out to draw contact he didn't have a killer arsenal of moves but his deadly shooting kept you scrambling all game, and his clutch gene was right there with Jordan, fearless competitor and shotmaker

Klay has a better drive game but he doesn't have opportunity to showcase it so he does what he does like Miller, I already posted in a thread a while ago I felt Klay could get around 25 - 27ppg as number 1 option but his team wouldn't be making no deep postseason runs and he definitely wouldn't be going for a 3rd ring and 4th straight Finals trip

You and hoops are just wrong. Reggie had a great runner and a solid post game. He used escaped dribbles, step backs and had a decent first step. He scored way way more points off the dribble then Klay does. If Klay has anything on Reggie he might be an even better catch and shoot guy. Reggie was better at creating shots though.

here is the first game highlights that came up on youtube. 33 as an old man in the NBA finals. lots of escape dribbles and step in off fakes, so he isn't crossing you up like James Harden but he is beating guys and always did. Reggie being just a catch and shoot guy is a total myth. You don't score that well and consistently in the playoffs if all you do is shoot open shots off screens or ball movement. Reggie was a very good one on one player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaoPTDccWK8

ODB13
05-07-2018, 08:22 PM
You and hoops are just wrong. Reggie had a great runner and a solid post game. He used escaped dribbles, step backs and had a decent first step. He scored way way more points off the dribble then Klay does. If Klay has anything on Reggie he might be an even better catch and shoot guy. Reggie was better at creating shots though.

here is the first game highlights that came up on youtube. 33 as an old man in the NBA finals. lots of escape dribbles and step in off fakes, so he isn't crossing you up like James Harden but he is beating guys and always did. Reggie being just a catch and shoot guy is a total myth. You don't score that well and consistently in the playoffs if all you do is shoot open shots off screens or ball movement. Reggie was a very good one on one player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaoPTDccWK8

You just made a great point by demonstrating real understanding of the game itself beyond the numbers, put it all into context and added video evidence, to boot.

Fine work.

JordansBulls
05-07-2018, 08:51 PM
Lebron is good, but not the GOAT you can't get bronze medals in the olympics in basketball and bring home Team USA's first bronze medal with pro athletes on it. Also lose 3 series with HCA and be down in a series every year of your career at least 3-2 in a series. Every other top 10 legend has won a title and gone thru the playoffs without having had been down in a series 3-2 on the way to the title.

People praise Lebron for getting to the finals but remember had he been out west he would be playing San Antonio or GSW in round 2 and have a battle in round 1 having had to play teams like OKC, Clippers, Memphis.

FlashBolt
05-07-2018, 08:59 PM
Lebron is good, but not the GOAT you can't get bronze medals in the olympics in basketball and bring home Team USA's first bronze medal with pro athletes on it. Also lose 3 series with HCA and be down in a series every year of your career at least 3-2 in a series. Every other top 10 legend has won a title and gone thru the playoffs without having had been down in a series 3-2 on the way to the title.

People praise Lebron for getting to the finals but remember had he been out west he would be playing San Antonio or GSW in round 2 and have a battle in round 1 having had to play teams like OKC, Clippers, Memphis.

Yeah, it's LeBron's fault Larry Brown chose to play him only 8 minutes per game and Allen Iverson jacked up 25+ shots on low efficiency. You're hilarious.

tredigs
05-07-2018, 10:58 PM
Iím not saying heíd be better with Bron, Iím saying he may be better than Reggie Miller given the chance as a full fledged #1. Thatís it

Not a ****ing chance my dude. I like Klay. He's not an alpha. He's not Reggie.

JordansBulls
05-07-2018, 11:15 PM
In the East this will be the comp. Victor Oladipo, Demar Derozan, Al Horford, whereas if in the West would have had to deal with OKC in round 1 with Westbrook, Semifinals in Harden and CP3 and WCF with Curry and Durant. Talking about night and day.

Last year would have had to play the Clippers and then ran into GSW in the Semifinals. In 2016 would have had to play the SAS in the Semifinals (against Kawhi his arch nemesis and Duncan still around) and GSW in the WCF.

Jeffy25
05-07-2018, 11:36 PM
You and hoops are just wrong. Reggie had a great runner and a solid post game. He used escaped dribbles, step backs and had a decent first step. He scored way way more points off the dribble then Klay does. If Klay has anything on Reggie he might be an even better catch and shoot guy. Reggie was better at creating shots though.

here is the first game highlights that came up on youtube. 33 as an old man in the NBA finals. lots of escape dribbles and step in off fakes, so he isn't crossing you up like James Harden but he is beating guys and always did. Reggie being just a catch and shoot guy is a total myth. You don't score that well and consistently in the playoffs if all you do is shoot open shots off screens or ball movement. Reggie was a very good one on one player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaoPTDccWK8

This is how I remember him.

Scratching his way to buckets.

He did find his open looks, and would score. And his archetype would be beaten out of him as a rookie by a front office today. But he was all scrape and grit as an offensive player. And a pest and **** talker on defense.

ewing
05-08-2018, 02:24 AM
Not a ****ing chance my dude. I like Klay. He's not an alpha. He's not Reggie.

Plus Reggie was better at basketball


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vinylman
05-08-2018, 08:41 AM
Dude, obviously.

I have no idea how you aren't understanding this, but in order to argue, you keep shifting the argument and goal posts. It's pointless.

sigh... you are the genius arguing per game stats when they are irrelevant and using PPG and shots per game as metrics without factoring in Pace...

its ok though... I know you like you some numbers and data

not that you use those numbers and data intelligently to argue your point but rest assured intelligent posters see through your bias

IKnowHoops
05-08-2018, 09:54 AM
Stop reaching for straws, you just folded by agreeing

and if Klay were on the Kings as number one option the defense scheme he would see would be geared toward a number one option so yea he would get hot but boy would he have those cold days in more abundance as he does being the 3rd option

that's what you guys keep glossing over, the defensive attention as a 1st option, Reggie was just a catch and shoot with an occasional drive to basket but he was strictly coming off screens to shoot which limited his scoring because outside of him kicking his leg out to draw contact he didn't have a killer arsenal of moves but his deadly shooting kept you scrambling all game, and his clutch gene was right there with Jordan, fearless competitor and shotmaker

Klay has a better drive game but he doesn't have opportunity to showcase it so he does what he does like Miller, I already posted in a thread a while ago I felt Klay could get around 25 - 27ppg as number 1 option but his team wouldn't be making no deep postseason runs and he definitely wouldn't be going for a 3rd ring and 4th straight Finals trip

How come the opposit happened for Kevin Love and Chris Bosh my young padawon learned? Exactly

IKnowHoops
05-08-2018, 09:55 AM
Who made the criteria for this 'GOAT'?

When did the 'GOAT' brand take over the ''Best / Most Dominant'' brand?

who would you draft 1st to build your team from scratch

Jordan or Lebron?

that's how you decide and not worry about a media created ''GOAT'' / Baphomet

once you figure out who you would draft you don't ever have to worry about Lebron winning another ring, especially if you chose him over Jordan, you are the GM and cant really go wrong with either player

Shut up, nobodyís got time for 100 question no answer aó

IKnowHoops
05-08-2018, 09:57 AM
Not a ****ing chance my dude. I like Klay. He's not an alpha. He's not Reggie.

21.8 his best year. Yeah you young guys are remembering things that werenít there. More than a chance bruh. Heís done thing Reggie never did. His best games are better than Reggieís and he doesnít get near the opportunity. When Reggie drop 60 easily?

IKnowHoops
05-08-2018, 10:00 AM
sigh... you are the genius arguing per game stats when they are irrelevant and using PPG and shots per game as metrics without factoring in Pace...

its ok though... I know you like you some numbers and data

not that you use those numbers and data intelligently to argue your point but rest assured intelligent posters see through your bias

And you are not one of them. Iíve been waiting for you to overcome a single point and you havenít. Donít even know why your here. Just to annoy? Not to bring knowledge.

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2018, 10:02 AM
Yeah, it's LeBron's fault Larry Brown chose to play him only 8 minutes per game and Allen Iverson jacked up 25+ shots on low efficiency. You're hilarious.

Your first part is right on cue, so 2nd part I guess would be you taking a cheap shot at your favorite players favorite player, The Answer

which I guess Iverson has so much juice he make the nba pick his 98 / 99 roster of mates so he could jack up 25+ shots, just like he did in that comeback win in the 01' ASG as well

Iverson is a mother****er, he keeps jacking up shots on low efficiency playing with 5ppg career scorers, he played with 4 Robersons

Larry Brown had to be on drugs during that Olympic run, he should have ran out a squad of Wade / Bron / AI / Duncan and whoever else and turned it into a track meet, but like I said you are who you are as a coach / player for most part, and Brown was a slow down / defensive style / half court HOF coach, doesn't work with HOF Olympians who are built for speed

Vinylman
05-08-2018, 10:06 AM
And you are not one of them. Iíve been waiting for you to overcome a single point and you havenít. Donít even know why your here. Just to annoy? Not to bring knowledge.

dude... you are a joke on this site... always have been always will be

I am not surprised you can't follow the statistical discussion

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2018, 10:08 AM
Shut up, nobodyís got time for 100 question no answer aó

StandDown and break you off a piece of that kit kat bar

IKnowNothingAboutHoops is feeling him / herself

I 'Own' Legends

I come on here to bring light and cut out all the ******** confusion, so listen up and from now on whoever you would pick to start your hot garbage franchise will be the superior / apex player, bottomline end of discussion

don't make any more dumb rankings up, just choose that player and be done with it

StandDown and never answer a question on here again or I will roast you like Pryor did folks back in his comedy apex

StandDown

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2018, 10:15 AM
dude... you are a joke on this site... always have been always will be

I am not surprised you can't follow the statistical discussion

He is the type of character to believe Bron got drafted in 11' season, lost rookie year Finals and avenged it following year and has made the Finals every year and in 7yrs Bron has scored 30k and put up all these incredible numbers

then they realized Bron didn't actually make the playoffs until 3rd season, then 4th season Finals trip loss and they scream well he didn't have any help, which is true but today right now they will say just give Lebron 4 guys and its a trip to Finals until looking back and realizing Bron lost in 08 - 2010 in postseason not reaching Finals with just 4 other guys because that other team was his kryptonite for that 3yr stretch, which made Bron jump ship to Miami for 4 years

once they realize Bron reached only 1 Finals first 7yrs they started writing to Bron personally and saying you cant end up like Iverson, he carried Sixers to same number of Finals you did first 7yrs but Iverson had slightly worse support cast, just saying

now we know all the excuses they have for him today / since 11', some legit while most are just like the defense of todays nba, full of ******** and holes

europagnpilgrim
05-08-2018, 10:35 AM
How come the opposit happened for Kevin Love and Chris Bosh my young padawon learned? Exactly

The opposite of what you knownothing genius? Klay is what Love / Bosh became when they ventured into his territory, prior to KD joining Klay was 2nd option right? now being 3rd option his natural game never changed while Bosh / Love had to leave post area and be more Klay like and shoot j's / 3's, so what opposite are you exactly talking about?

when Love and Bosh were on their drafted team they were seeing more defense scheme geared to contain / key on them, same would happen if Klay were on the Kings

so what don't you understand my young albion?

self explanatory

FlashBolt
05-08-2018, 11:40 AM
Klay doesn't have his own team. Is anyone arguing Klay won't be dropping 25+ in the regular season if he was the 1st option? He'd be able to do that. Reggie was not any more different than Klay in terms of style of basketball. The only difference is Reggie's personality but Reggie was a dirty pesky defender who benefitted from lots of grabbing and cheap fouls. Klay can't do that. I'd take Reggie obviously but stylistically, they were the same players. Reggie was a poor overall basketball player who could only score and play tough defense. He did nothing else at a high level. There isn't a huge gap in talent.

YAALREADYKNO
05-09-2018, 11:31 PM
Jordan>Lebron
I got Bron #2 all time tho

TO Rapz
05-10-2018, 12:36 AM
Lebrons the GOAT.

Aside from that tho, take in that Lebron has nothing to lose this playoffs. Its the first time theres no pressure on him. If that Cavs team loses, no ones gona say ****. Well I wouldn't, no reasonable fan would. That roster isn't anywhere close to Golden State and Houstons better too lol. With how weak the East is, its Cleveland vs half of Boston now and that should be fine for LBJ. But if he loses in the finals, no ones gona be surprised lol

IKnowHoops
05-10-2018, 01:44 AM
StandDown and break you off a piece of that kit kat bar

IKnowNothingAboutHoops is feeling him / herself

I 'Own' Legends

I come on here to bring light and cut out all the ******** confusion, so listen up and from now on whoever you would pick to start your hot garbage franchise will be the superior / apex player, bottomline end of discussion

don't make any more dumb rankings up, just choose that player and be done with it

StandDown and never answer a question on here again or I will roast you like Pryor did folks back in his comedy apex

StandDown

Hush gramps. You need viagra to get up for ur hand. And you need to go back in time before those massive amounts of LSD hits you slept in during the 60ís to debate me. Your the biggest broken record in here. If I have to hear about how you knew day 1 that yada yada yada....Pipe down old man before You have a seizure or a heart attack

IKnowHoops
05-10-2018, 01:53 AM
The opposite of what you knownothing genius? Klay is what Love / Bosh became when they ventured into his territory, prior to KD joining Klay was 2nd option right? now being 3rd option his natural game never changed while Bosh / Love had to leave post area and be more Klay like and shoot j's / 3's, so what opposite are you exactly talking about?

when Love and Bosh were on their drafted team they were seeing more defense scheme geared to contain / key on them, same would happen if Klay were on the Kings

so what don't you understand my young albion?

self explanatory

And Love and Bosh as the men,is what Tre would become if he was the man. 24/25 a game. Now go get your viagra and ur right hand and put yourself to sleep crusty.

IKnowHoops
05-10-2018, 02:02 AM
dude... you are a joke on this site... always have been always will be

I am not surprised you can't follow the statistical discussion

You have yet to mention a single stat. This post is your most statistically charged post. Iím not surprised you came with another weasel esque post.