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View Full Version : Melo: The next AI? Or could be be another Mark Aquirre?



JasonJohnHorn
04-25-2018, 06:45 PM
Like both Mark Aquirre and Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony has seen years of dominant scoring.


Aquire had seen multiple easons posted 25+ a game, and started to come down a bit. Dallas wasn't contending and aw fit to dump a guy approaching 30 and start afresh. It paid off for Aquirre. He took a smaller scoring role, put pressure on defenses, and helped the Pistons win back-to-back titles.


Iverson saw a similar scenario, but it didn't pan out as well. Philly traded him to Denver, where Iverson contnue to score a lot but was a second option to Melo (coincidentally). He, like Aquirre, got traded to Detroit, but Detroit was passed it contending days (officially as of the Iverson trade) and his time as anything other than a primary scoring option saw his utility drop to the point where he moved among three four teams in 2 years and played less than 80 games in that time.


Melo now seems to be at that stage in his career where he'll either be an effective role player who can still score and put pressure on defences, or an aging scorer who gets moved around from team to team.

So... what direction is he more likely to go it?

R. Johnson#3
04-25-2018, 07:01 PM
Dude ran Jeremy Lin out of New York because he was jealous. He'll be a journeyman.

D-Leethal
04-25-2018, 07:27 PM
He needs to follow LeBron and do whatever LeBron tells him to do. Only then will he find success.

LOb0
04-25-2018, 07:36 PM
He's just another overrated Iverson. If he were on the best defensive team like AI was I think he could've had a season like his. Had he of joined prime grit and grind Memphis his career would look totally different

ewing
04-25-2018, 08:15 PM
He’ll probably finish his contract and retire


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Raps18-19 Champ
04-25-2018, 09:24 PM
He'll be a better Pete Maravich/Adrian Dantley type player. So better than Aguirre but worse than Iverson. Anthony is top 10-15 SF all time most likely.

NYKnickFanatic
04-25-2018, 10:11 PM
He needs to follow LeBron and do whatever LeBron tells him to do. Only then will he find success.

Or CP3.

JasonJohnHorn
04-26-2018, 12:39 AM
He'll be a better Pete Maravich/Adrian Dantley type player. So better than Aguirre but worse than Iverson. Anthony is top 10-15 SF all time most likely.

Having watched Dantley and Aquirre play, and Bernard King, I feel like he's more in their range. Top 15 is reasonable. Over time it will drop to 20. Then 25. We see a couple of guys like him each generation. The 80's had a few of them.

Nique. Mullen.

I mean... LBJ, Bird nd Durant set pretty high standards for the position. Then you get guys like Pippen who are so good defensively... and Leonard (depending on his longevity and return to full form).

Then you get guys who were SG/SF. Dr. J. McGrady. Classic like Baylor, Hondo and Berry. Big time winner like Worthy.

Melo is better than some of those guys. Baylor and Hondo were inefficient by today's standards for example, and Melo has more range than the SFs of the 80's, who often didn't shoot a lot of 3's.

Thing is, there are other guys, like Vince Carter and Metta World Peace. I feel like Melo had a longer peak than either of them, but in their best years, I'd take Ron Artest or VC over Melo in his best year. Or guys who got injured but were clearly better players, like Grant Hill.


He's been a great player, and had a long run as a great player, but I don't think there is a generation in the modern era where he would have been the best at his position.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-26-2018, 02:32 AM
Dude ran Jeremy Lin out of New York because he was jealous. He'll be a journeyman.

J Lin has also been on 4 teams in 6 years. Let's not act like j lins month of awesomeness was anything more than just a honeymoon. Everyone knew what j Lin was then and still til this day. And if it wasn't Carmelo j lin woulda never even got minutes on the Knicks. Serious question... Would you prefer the Knicks still had a lineup of gallinari, Amare, Felton, mozgov and Wilson Chandler?

KingPosey
04-26-2018, 03:52 AM
Or CP3.

CP3 would be good for him, lebron I actually think
Wouldnt. He’s at a point in his career where he will be playing more and more stretch 4 and Lebron gets those guys slaughtered by the public.

ewing
04-26-2018, 08:13 AM
J Lin has also been on 4 teams in 6 years. Let's not act like j lins month of awesomeness was anything more than just a honeymoon. Everyone knew what j Lin was then and still til this day. And if it wasn't Carmelo j lin woulda never even got minutes on the Knicks. Serious question... Would you prefer the Knicks still had a lineup of gallinari, Amare, Felton, mozgov and Wilson Chandler?

I would definitely have preferred if Dolan did not taken over trade negotiations with Denver and allowed Donnie to continue running the franchise. The team was going in the right direction. I was against the trade at the time, largely b/c I thought the Knicks could have signed him in the off season and b/c Billups was the opposite of what Dantoni looks for in a PG. It was a big debate at the time and I think history has sided with those of us that were against the move

R. Johnson#3
04-26-2018, 08:14 AM
J Lin has also been on 4 teams in 6 years. Let's not act like j lins month of awesomeness was anything more than just a honeymoon. Everyone knew what j Lin was then and still til this day. And if it wasn't Carmelo j lin woulda never even got minutes on the Knicks. Serious question... Would you prefer the Knicks still had a lineup of gallinari, Amare, Felton, mozgov and Wilson Chandler?

No, because then they'd be better than they are now.

KnickNyKnick
04-26-2018, 09:55 AM
damn right. we could have kept that team and still signed melo... or very close to keeping the same team. not sure why they panicked. they were starstruck. but then they followed up with a no trade clause in the next contract. :dance:

R. Johnson#3
04-26-2018, 10:05 AM
Yeah the Knicks really could’ve been something special there....

ewing
04-26-2018, 10:11 AM
damn right. we could have kept that team and still signed melo... or very close to keeping the same team. not sure why they panicked. they were starstruck. but then they followed up with a no trade clause in the next contract. :dance:


There was no guarantee that we would have gotten Melo but we were in position to go after him or spend elsewhere if it didn't work out. They defiantly panicked

europagnpilgrim
04-26-2018, 10:23 AM
He's just another overrated Iverson. If he were on the best defensive team like AI was I think he could've had a season like his. Had he of joined prime grit and grind Memphis his career would look totally different


So would you rather have a team of defenders but on beneath g - league In scoring prowess? also do you assume Melo would lead the league in steals 3 straight years with a playoff record 10 in a game? had Melo been drafted right by the better original grind and grit Pistons 2.0 then he would have had diff. winning success, his game would have still been the same, bulldog on the block / explosive scorer / clutch maker.

Lebron early Cavs teams were really good def. under Brown and how many Finals did Lebron reach first 7 yrs? 1, how many did AI reach in 10yrs in Philly with defenders and 5ppg career scoring duo for 7yrs, 1

now I know you are competent enough to inner stand that had Lebron stayed with Cavs for 3 more years he would have had the same amount of Finals first 10yrs as AI but he wised up and went to a better situation while being 26 / 27 and not pushing 33yrs of age like AI was in Denver for that 1 full season

since when did leading the league in steals not become a part of playing defense? and when ever has a 5'10'' nba sized player ever been known as a lockdown defender, I get it players like CP3 and Beverly etc. are bulldogs and give effort but they are not stopping nobody at their position, they can do a decent job containing on certain possessions but still end up getting torched, especially with all the switching these days, they end up on player 5-8 inches taller and get destroyed for it, that's not elite individual defense but it is compared to the matador style played by almost everybody in the league

I recall on here experts talking about the complicated defense of today and I just laugh because that shows me they don't watch the actual games, its a open run to the rim outside of every one shooting 40 threes a game, the lane always wide open because the lack of effort on defense from pretty much all players, even the DPOY candidates get torched by the best / superstars and even all star level

team defense is the key, and that includes any and all teams

now go back and look at the teams who played the best defense or top 3-5 and tell me was their 2nd and 3rd options better than Snow / Mutombo or Mckie / Mutombo or Mckie / Snow, any combo and compare and then come back and talk

just look at Lebron and the 'help' he needs from a guy who actually at one point avg 25ppg 14rpg for a entire season, all I hear is Lebron needs help

well damn how can Iverson not need scoring 'help'? all you fake experts and non ball players just speak on defense with Iverson, so are you admitting that Iverson was that damn good on Offense where his 2nd best player during 01' run was 13-14ppg in Mckie, for the entire postseason, not 1 series

that's where you AI bashers lose, you focus on one side of the coin, ball is played on offense and defense, a 5'10'' player 150lbs shouldn't have to be tasked with shooting 30+ times for your team to 'stay' in the game, no player his size could ever do what he was asked to do, the closest would be Zeke / CP3, its the main reason why Lebron James said AI played like a 6'8'' two guard, what is Lebron listed game height? so AI played almost a entire ''Foot'' taller than his actual height? damn he was dominant

those so called elite defenders couldn't throw a rock in the ocean

and how many of those defenders make the all nba defense team during that AI era? i'll be waiting, and I give you old man Mutombo, even though he was pushing like 36yrs of age when AI played with him 1 1/2 seasons

Chronz
04-26-2018, 10:32 AM
Melo is washed man. He's definitely like Detroit ai now. Neither willing to come off the bench hurts any other team they want to join too. AI was so washed up that even a ****** Memphis team at the time couldn't improve with him om the court, he couldn't handle a young Conley (iirc) being the better player and truer pg so they cut his ***. I wouldn't be surprised if okc waives melo if he doesn't buy in next year.

There was only one place Iverson would accept the bench it was home. Maybe melo goes back to new York

D-Leethal
04-26-2018, 10:53 AM
Or CP3.

I wouldn't touch Melo with a 10 foot pole if I'm Houston. They dodged a massive bullet. I don't think they sign Melo even if he was waived and would take vet min.


I would definitely have preferred if Dolan did not taken over trade negotiations with Denver and allowed Donnie to continue running the franchise. The team was going in the right direction. I was against the trade at the time, largely b/c I thought the Knicks could have signed him in the off season and b/c Billups was the opposite of what Dantoni looks for in a PG. It was a big debate at the time and I think history has sided with those of us that were against the move

Yea there is no argument that the trade was good for us. Staying the course would have been the better move. Donnie would have made prudent decisions, we would have had all our picks along the way. We probably end up amnestying Stat at some point and having boat loads of cap and much younger talent spread on the team. We also would have kept D'Antoni, who is one of the best coaches of this generation despite the haters.

Chronz
04-26-2018, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't touch Melo with a 10 foot pole if I'm Houston. They dodged a massive bullet. I don't think they sign Melo even if he was waived and would take vet min.



Yea there is no argument that the trade was good for us. Staying the course would have been the better move. Donnie would have made prudent decisions, we would have had all our picks along the way. We probably end up amnestying Stat at some point and having boat loads of cap and much younger talent spread on the team. We also would have kept D'Antoni, who is one of the best coaches of this generation despite the haters.

Houston signed a washed up joe Johnson. Morey loves taking fliers on former stars, think he tried Steve Francis after ya'll were done with him too.

TheDish87
04-26-2018, 11:59 AM
Melo is not on AI's level

AIMelo=KillaDUO
04-26-2018, 10:49 PM
So would you rather have a team of defenders but on beneath g - league In scoring prowess? also do you assume Melo would lead the league in steals 3 straight years with a playoff record 10 in a game? had Melo been drafted right by the better original grind and grit Pistons 2.0 then he would have had diff. winning success, his game would have still been the same, bulldog on the block / explosive scorer / clutch maker.

Lebron early Cavs teams were really good def. under Brown and how many Finals did Lebron reach first 7 yrs? 1, how many did AI reach in 10yrs in Philly with defenders and 5ppg career scoring duo for 7yrs, 1

now I know you are competent enough to inner stand that had Lebron stayed with Cavs for 3 more years he would have had the same amount of Finals first 10yrs as AI but he wised up and went to a better situation while being 26 / 27 and not pushing 33yrs of age like AI was in Denver for that 1 full season

since when did leading the league in steals not become a part of playing defense? and when ever has a 5'10'' nba sized player ever been known as a lockdown defender, I get it players like CP3 and Beverly etc. are bulldogs and give effort but they are not stopping nobody at their position, they can do a decent job containing on certain possessions but still end up getting torched, especially with all the switching these days, they end up on player 5-8 inches taller and get destroyed for it, that's not elite individual defense but it is compared to the matador style played by almost everybody in the league

I recall on here experts talking about the complicated defense of today and I just laugh because that shows me they don't watch the actual games, its a open run to the rim outside of every one shooting 40 threes a game, the lane always wide open because the lack of effort on defense from pretty much all players, even the DPOY candidates get torched by the best / superstars and even all star level

team defense is the key, and that includes any and all teams

now go back and look at the teams who played the best defense or top 3-5 and tell me was their 2nd and 3rd options better than Snow / Mutombo or Mckie / Mutombo or Mckie / Snow, any combo and compare and then come back and talk

just look at Lebron and the 'help' he needs from a guy who actually at one point avg 25ppg 14rpg for a entire season, all I hear is Lebron needs help

well damn how can Iverson not need scoring 'help'? all you fake experts and non ball players just speak on defense with Iverson, so are you admitting that Iverson was that damn good on Offense where his 2nd best player during 01' run was 13-14ppg in Mckie, for the entire postseason, not 1 series

that's where you AI bashers lose, you focus on one side of the coin, ball is played on offense and defense, a 5'10'' player 150lbs shouldn't have to be tasked with shooting 30+ times for your team to 'stay' in the game, no player his size could ever do what he was asked to do, the closest would be Zeke / CP3, its the main reason why Lebron James said AI played like a 6'8'' two guard, what is Lebron listed game height? so AI played almost a entire ''Foot'' taller than his actual height? damn he was dominant

those so called elite defenders couldn't throw a rock in the ocean

and how many of those defenders make the all nba defense team during that AI era? i'll be waiting, and I give you old man Mutombo, even though he was pushing like 36yrs of age when AI played with him 1 1/2 seasons

Don't waste your time, man. You're 100% right, but it's falling on deaf ears. Some people's minds are already made up. Even though what your saying is fact most will be blind to it.

R. Johnson#3
04-27-2018, 08:48 AM
He's just another overrated Iverson.

Nah, Iverson could actually get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

D-Leethal
04-27-2018, 09:31 AM
Houston signed a washed up joe Johnson. Morey loves taking fliers on former stars, think he tried Steve Francis after ya'll were done with him too.

But Melo isn't willing to take that much of a reduced role yet. He mocked a reporter for asking him about coming off the bench earlier thisy ear. JJ is fine doing next to nothing for Houston - Melo would lobby via CP3 to get Mike to get him a role, it would be a mess.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2018, 10:09 AM
Nah, Iverson could actually get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

I'm not a Melo fan, but he has done that twice, and had played in a difficult and deep West for the best years of his career.

Also... it is important to note that when they played together, and were scoring more than any other two teammates in the league, thye both failed to get out of the first round. So...

I mean... in what, 8 years n Philly, Iverson only got the Sixers to 50 wins once. Melo helped the Nuggers to 4 50-win seasons, and helped the Knicks to one a well.

If Melo had played the teams Iverson's Sixers played in the playoffs, instead of the likes of the Lakers and Spurs (who accounted for 4 of Denver's playoff exits in the time Melo was there), then he likely would have been able to get out of the first round more over and likely would have gotten to the finals.

That 04/05 team, for example, George Karl earned 32 wins in 40 games, which put them on pace for 60 wins once they got rid fo their old coach. That team could have gotten to the finals if they were playing in the east the year Iverson got to the finals.

Playoff runs are not only dependent on who you have on your team, but who you are playing against. Essentially, you are (in addition to forgetting that Melo did get out of the first round twice) giving credit to AI for being luckier than Melo and failing to note that even when AI and Melo were together and posting 50 wins, the team couldn't get out of the first round.

Moreover, when that team replaced AI with Chauncey Billups, they improved and not only got out of the first round, but made it to the conference finals.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2018, 10:17 AM
Melo is washed man. He's definitely like Detroit ai now. Neither willing to come off the bench hurts any other team they want to join too. AI was so washed up that even a ****** Memphis team at the time couldn't improve with him om the court, he couldn't handle a young Conley (iirc) being the better player and truer pg so they cut his ***. I wouldn't be surprised if okc waives melo if he doesn't buy in next year.

There was only one place Iverson would accept the bench it was home. Maybe melo goes back to new York

I have a feeling you are right. I don't see Melo dong anything productive from here on out.

It is a shame, because with Iverson, I don't think his skill set was condusive to really making a team a contender. I mean... yes, he got to the finals, but it was in a weak East, and they were embarassed in the finals.

But Melo, in terms of his skill set, posesses a more impressive skill set than a player like Mark Aguirre. He's a better rebounder, just as good or better a passer (though not elite), and he has more score weapons (namely his 3pt shot: everythign else he has Aguirre generally had too).

So, on paper, you say to yourself: throw him Houston, or Phlly, or Cleveland, or GSW, and let him put pressur eon the D and drop 12-18 nightly with the occasional 25+ burst, and he'll help them win.

But at the same time, it just looks like this is the start of Melo's curtain call. Maybe it's playing with Westbrook, who, like Melo, is ball dominant. Perhaps if he were on a pasing team, liek the Spurs, or GSW, or Housto, he could still make a positive contribution.


I think CP3 could make him look pretty good still, but Houston has guys who are a better fit for their sytem already.

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 10:31 AM
Having watched Dantley and Aquirre play, and Bernard King, I feel like he's more in their range. Top 15 is reasonable. Over time it will drop to 20. Then 25. We see a couple of guys like him each generation. The 80's had a few of them.

Nique. Mullen.

I mean... LBJ, Bird nd Durant set pretty high standards for the position. Then you get guys like Pippen who are so good defensively... and Leonard (depending on his longevity and return to full form).

Then you get guys who were SG/SF. Dr. J. McGrady. Classic like Baylor, Hondo and Berry. Big time winner like Worthy.

Melo is better than some of those guys. Baylor and Hondo were inefficient by today's standards for example, and Melo has more range than the SFs of the 80's, who often didn't shoot a lot of 3's.

Thing is, there are other guys, like Vince Carter and Metta World Peace. I feel like Melo had a longer peak than either of them, but in their best years, I'd take Ron Artest or VC over Melo in his best year. Or guys who got injured but were clearly better players, like Grant Hill.


He's been a great player, and had a long run as a great player, but I don't think there is a generation in the modern era where he would have been the best at his position.


Big time winner like Worthy? or like big time championship caliber talent around Worthy from UNC to Lakers? this is what I mean, Magic was a big time winner right? well imagine had Chicago won the coin toss to select number 1 and Magic had to go there, would he have ended up a big time winner? highly doubt it, but he still would have been 'magic', just without the jewelry, just as Worthy still would have been big game James but just probably in 1st round or for 82 game season had he gone to a true bottom feeder, reminds me of the Kobe draft, guess its a Lakers thing but don't act like Worthy was this supreme winner without looking at the cast, it wasn't like he B Russell'ed his way, Russell was the driving winning force because I don't think they won anything prior to Russell and they had the same players in place for most part, that's a winner right there, impact dominant winner at that, Worthy wasn't no missing winning piece, it was like a spoiled kid who just got a Bentley rolls Royce and now crying because he didn't get a Lambo to go with it, rich crying about riches

Melo had his team rookie year in playoffs out west and LeBron didn't, a young Melo all day over VC and its close between Artest because of his DPOY ability and his improvement to get 20ppg is highly valuable, I would draft VC over those strictly for biz / ticket sales, he was ''air canada'' for a damn legit reason

Jamiecballer
04-27-2018, 10:42 AM
Melo and Iverson are historical equivalents. Both top 100 maybe but nothing more.

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europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 10:44 AM
I'm not a Melo fan, but he has done that twice, and had played in a difficult and deep West for the best years of his career.

Also... it is important to note that when they played together, and were scoring more than any other two teammates in the league, thye both failed to get out of the first round. So...

I mean... in what, 8 years n Philly, Iverson only got the Sixers to 50 wins once. Melo helped the Nuggers to 4 50-win seasons, and helped the Knicks to one a well.

If Melo had played the teams Iverson's Sixers played in the playoffs, instead of the likes of the Lakers and Spurs (who accounted for 4 of Denver's playoff exits in the time Melo was there), then he likely would have been able to get out of the first round more over and likely would have gotten to the finals.

That 04/05 team, for example, George Karl earned 32 wins in 40 games, which put them on pace for 60 wins once they got rid fo their old coach. That team could have gotten to the finals if they were playing in the east the year Iverson got to the finals.

Playoff runs are not only dependent on who you have on your team, but who you are playing against. Essentially, you are (in addition to forgetting that Melo did get out of the first round twice) giving credit to AI for being luckier than Melo and failing to note that even when AI and Melo were together and posting 50 wins, the team couldn't get out of the first round.

Moreover, when that team replaced AI with Chauncey Billups, they improved and not only got out of the first round, but made it to the conference finals.

how many games would you expect a team to win relying on 5ppg career scorers to run shot gun with your superstar? they won 49 and 56 games back to back and probably would have won 60 if Iverson doesn't sit final 5 games of 01', then they won 48 I think next year or something similar, how can you expect to win 50 games relying on Snow / Mckie

why does this get lost on you so called basketball heads on here? those teams he played on were strictly AI or bust on offense, dude is not even 6'0'' tall so either he was damn super good or the front office was that incompetent or a combo of both, I pick last option

the team that Billups went to was finally getting their key injury players back like Nene / KMart, and this would have been the 2nd full season, and that Detroit team had ran its course in that 6yr span and Detroit had the 4th seed until the Stuckey should start ignorance that went down, then they dropped to the 8th seed, and last I checked a top 4 seed in any conference is pretty good.

that should also show you how tough the west was winning 50 games and getting a 8th seed, show me any other season that has happened

losing to the Spurs and Lakers in his half season in 07' with Nuggets(spurs won title) and his only 1 full season vs Lakers 08, who represented the west in finals but lost, so they lost to the same teams that the rest of the playoff teams out west did, they just had the unfortunate luck of playing them 1st rd, each time

but for you to say AI only won 50 games in his 10 yr stint in philly is you showing that you are either overranking avg players or you just don't know how avg. 5ppg career scorers can be, he played with a core for 7yrs that avg 11ppg combined, weakest Robin / core cast in nba history and you are crying about 50 wins instead of saying damn he won 50 games with that crew, don't float into 'flashinthepanbolt' territory and be labeled incompetent over something this damn basic

its like me trying to make a case for Melo over Bron because he got his team out west to playoffs in tougher conference first 2 yrs but Bron didn't out east, we all knew Bron was the more dominant overall player, only thing Melo could do was get buckets equally, everything else was Bron in spades, outside of 3pt / free throw shooting

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 10:52 AM
Melo and Iverson are historical equivalents. Both top 100 maybe but nothing more.

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top 100 is really good place to be because it consists of 1 - 100, damn Iverson is in the top 100, so Lebron was right, he is the greatest player ever pound for pound, that would be top 100 as well, Jordan is the media GOAT, that is top 100 as well

so if a player is top 100 and nothing more where would that player fall? top 10 like Shaq and others claim that AI is or top 20 - 25 where most experts list rank him? Daly said he was top 10 all time, so there you have it folks

AI is top 100 maybe but nothing more
AI is top 10 all time by Daly
AI is top 5 according to Shaq
AI along with Jordan according to Kobe was toughest to guard / fiercest competitors, basically Kobe is saying Jordan and AI are one in the same just difference was height, Jordan is in your top 100 as well right 'jamiecwannabeaballer'?

and according to the 'depends on who you ask' GOAT in Lebron said AI was the greatest player ever pound for pound, which according to my knowledge is top 100

I don't see where you got your historical info from but it is way off because at best they will say Melo was top 10 of his era and one of the best small forwards but nobody and I mean nobody outside of his homer circle will say he was top 10 all time, or he was pound for pound the greatest ever, he was a tough cover indeed so he got that same acknowledgement as AI, but I will wait for a coach to come out and say what Daly said about AI, it wont happen so your equivalency is way way way way out of bounds

Stand Down

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 11:08 AM
Eric Snow aka Iverson sidekick / robin from 1998 - 2004, but prior to joining Iverson his career high was 3.9ppg, then with Iverson his career high is 12.9, in 846 career games Snow avg a whopping magnificent 6.8ppg for those games played

Mckie high was 10.7ppg and coming into Philly he was avg 4ppg and a high with Iverson of 12ppg, and out of 793 career games he avg a whopping magnificent 1st ballot HOF'er style 7.4ppg, so I was off a couple ppg, instead of 12 it was 14ppg total, that is some help

and for that incompetent character who mentioned Mutombo and his 14ppg and 14rpg with Iverson in the playoffs, prior to joining AI, Deke was putting up a whopping 9ppg and 14rpg, so in truth Iverson actually did make his teammates ''better'', which has always been a knock on Iverson, but the numbers don't lie and prove otherwise, even Mutombo said Iverson was one of the top 10 / best ever to do it, so Mutombo has Iverson in his top 100 as well, AI is on a serious roll, 1st ballot HOFer, I got paid very well off someone who was incompetent and swore he wouldn't be a 1st ballot HOF'er, I laughed all the way to Chase

Iverson should have won like 4-6 rings with that core, AI sucks for not being able to do that

Stand Down

D-Leethal
04-27-2018, 11:15 AM
I have a feeling you are right. I don't see Melo dong anything productive from here on out.

It is a shame, because with Iverson, I don't think his skill set was condusive to really making a team a contender. I mean... yes, he got to the finals, but it was in a weak East, and they were embarassed in the finals.

But Melo, in terms of his skill set, posesses a more impressive skill set than a player like Mark Aguirre. He's a better rebounder, just as good or better a passer (though not elite), and he has more score weapons (namely his 3pt shot: everythign else he has Aguirre generally had too).

So, on paper, you say to yourself: throw him Houston, or Phlly, or Cleveland, or GSW, and let him put pressur eon the D and drop 12-18 nightly with the occasional 25+ burst, and he'll help them win.

But at the same time, it just looks like this is the start of Melo's curtain call. Maybe it's playing with Westbrook, who, like Melo, is ball dominant. Perhaps if he were on a pasing team, liek the Spurs, or GSW, or Housto, he could still make a positive contribution.


I think CP3 could make him look pretty good still, but Houston has guys who are a better fit for their sytem already.

You put Melo on a LeBron team off the bench he can still be a valuable piece IMO. Spelling Lebron for 10-12 mins as the #1 bench guy and playing off LeBron for another 15 minutes. I think he would find a resurgence of value in that role. JR Smith was able to do it, I am pretty sure Melo could too. But I really don't think he would thrive in any other role outside of riding LeBron's coattails.

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 11:40 AM
You put Melo on a LeBron team off the bench he can still be a valuable piece IMO. Spelling Lebron for 10-12 mins as the #1 bench guy and playing off LeBron for another 15 minutes. I think he would find a resurgence of value in that role. JR Smith was able to do it, I am pretty sure Melo could too. But I really don't think he would thrive in any other role outside of riding LeBron's coattails.

Agreed, and you can add a few other teams to the mix that have a player or system who plays to what Bron does pretty much as far as looking for the open man / shooter and mixing in a post up here and there, those type of offenses would work best for Melo because it would require swing passes / movement pretty much the entire time mixed in with post up / iso, at this stage Melo should know he is a 6 - 8 three point a game attempt guy, with a iso / post up here and there far and wide for ultimate team success, and he has to give full max effort on team defense

Spurs / Cavs / Rockets / Grizz / Bulls could use Melo rightfully right now, even the Blazers who I feel Lillard would love to share his usage rate with, especially seeing how he performed this past playoffs, Melo would have helped big time camping in the corner shooting wide open 3's and getting his iso / post up

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 11:45 AM
Melo is washed man. He's definitely like Detroit ai now. Neither willing to come off the bench hurts any other team they want to join too. AI was so washed up that even a ****** Memphis team at the time couldn't improve with him om the court, he couldn't handle a young Conley (iirc) being the better player and truer pg so they cut his ***. I wouldn't be surprised if okc waives melo if he doesn't buy in next year.

There was only one place Iverson would accept the bench it was home. Maybe melo goes back to new York

I feel AI should have let the season play out, especially since he started out red super hot in his percentages, I bet had he shot 20pct that would be the first thing you and others would have pointed out but in his limited action it was the complete opposite

and conley should have came off the bench out of respect since he was who he was back then, a good serviceable / fringe - sub all star, he wasn't nothing special to gripe over about, you sit him instantly for a legend, its no different than RIP backing up 40yr old Jordan, I feel had AI took that role for entire season he would have ended up on a no brainer sure fire title contender following year, but being a perennial all star / icon while playing is a monster, ego on overdrive for these ''superstar athletes'', rather at their apex or the back end

europagnpilgrim
04-27-2018, 11:48 AM
Melo is not on AI's level

Exactly

nothing moor nor less

D-Leethal
04-27-2018, 12:22 PM
Agreed, and you can add a few other teams to the mix that have a player or system who plays to what Bron does pretty much as far as looking for the open man / shooter and mixing in a post up here and there, those type of offenses would work best for Melo because it would require swing passes / movement pretty much the entire time mixed in with post up / iso, at this stage Melo should know he is a 6 - 8 three point a game attempt guy, with a iso / post up here and there far and wide for ultimate team success, and he has to give full max effort on team defense

Spurs / Cavs / Rockets / Grizz / Bulls could use Melo rightfully right now, even the Blazers who I feel Lillard would love to share his usage rate with, especially seeing how he performed this past playoffs, Melo would have helped big time camping in the corner shooting wide open 3's and getting his iso / post up

I don't think Melo is at the "acceptance" stage of where his career is at yet though. I think he would go to a LeBron team and come off the bench, but I'm not sure he would do it many other places.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2018, 10:56 PM
Big time winner like Worthy? or like big time championship caliber talent around Worthy from UNC to Lakers?

I didn't say Worthy was better, I just noted people might rank him higher because he won a lot.

JasonJohnHorn
04-27-2018, 11:07 PM
top 100 is really good place to be because it consists of 1 - 100, damn Iverson is in the top 100, so Lebron was right, he is the greatest player ever pound for pound, that would be top 100 as well, Jordan is the media GOAT, that is top 100 as well

so if a player is top 100 and nothing more where would that player fall? top 10 like Shaq and others claim that AI is or top 20 - 25 where most experts list rank him? Daly said he was top 10 all time, so there you have it folks

AI is top 100 maybe but nothing more
AI is top 10 all time by Daly
AI is top 5 according to Shaq
AI along with Jordan according to Kobe was toughest to guard / fiercest competitors, basically Kobe is saying Jordan and AI are one in the same just difference was height, Jordan is in your top 100 as well right 'jamiecwannabeaballer'?

and according to the 'depends on who you ask' GOAT in Lebron said AI was the greatest player ever pound for pound, which according to my knowledge is top 100

I don't see where you got your historical info from but it is way off because at best they will say Melo was top 10 of his era and one of the best small forwards but nobody and I mean nobody outside of his homer circle will say he was top 10 all time, or he was pound for pound the greatest ever, he was a tough cover indeed so he got that same acknowledgement as AI, but I will wait for a coach to come out and say what Daly said about AI, it wont happen so your equivalency is way way way way out of bounds

Stand Down

You're turning this thread into an AI debate.

You've done this in the past. We get it. You love AI. You don't care that he couldn't shoot or defend. He was great at drawing fouls and could break defenders down, and often got bailed out by friendly whistles when he didn't finish at the basket.

Who care where Shaq ranks him? Who cares of Kobe thought he was a tough competitor. There are tough competitors who aren't top-ten players. And 'pound-for-pound'? That's just hore$#!t people use when they are talking about small players.

Focus on stats and achievements, instead of using the appeal to authority.

I could name 20 PGs and 20 SGs I'd take over AI to start a franchise with.

You might point to Philly's lack of support as a reason for his failures there, but he made it hard for that team to build around because people didn't want to play with a ball hog who couldn't shoot. Dikembe and Ratliff's defense bailed him out more times than I could count when he chased after steals and let his guy get to the basket.

I mean, in 04 the dude was averaging under .400 from the field and taking nearly 25 shots a game. And when he had a big scorer next to him, he didn't even get out of the first round


But none of that fawking matters becaue this isn't a thread about AI: it' about Melo.

AI had sharp turn in his career and played his way out of the league. That's a fact.

Now... does Melo do the same thing? Or does he transition gracefully to role player and make an impact the way guys like Mark Aguirre did? That's the question.

But you want to p!$$ all over this and use it as an means to praise a ball hog who took too many shots. We get... he was a great ball handlers, culd break ankles, and cudl draw a foul. That is where his game begins and ends. He got a coach who was dumb enough to play him 40 minutes a game and let him take 25+ shots a game to make his per-game averages seem imrpesive. If he played in the days of advance stats, he'd be IT at best.

Let's move on... the thread is not debaitng AI's place in the top 100 (which is a generous ranking because I could name 200 players I'd rather have to start a franchise).

ewing
04-28-2018, 07:17 AM
Trash


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

europagnpilgrim
04-28-2018, 08:36 AM
I don't think Melo is at the "acceptance" stage of where his career is at yet though. I think he would go to a LeBron team and come off the bench, but I'm not sure he would do it many other places.

None of them reach that stage, especially if you were once considered or felt highly like a superstar caliber player, it is usually forced upon them to do so if they truly want a ring(s), Jordan was 40 starting and wouldn't come off the bench for RIP or any other inserted player, ego maniacs, all athletes are, from the lowest to the super highest level of ego(devil)

what's so funny is if you spell devil backwards its 'lived'

europagnpilgrim
04-28-2018, 09:08 AM
You're turning this thread into an AI debate.

You've done this in the past. We get it. You love AI. You don't care that he couldn't shoot or defend. He was great at drawing fouls and could break defenders down, and often got bailed out by friendly whistles when he didn't finish at the basket.

Who care where Shaq ranks him? Who cares of Kobe thought he was a tough competitor. There are tough competitors who aren't top-ten players. And 'pound-for-pound'? That's just hore$#!t people use when they are talking about small players.

Focus on stats and achievements, instead of using the appeal to authority.

I could name 20 PGs and 20 SGs I'd take over AI to start a franchise with.

You might point to Philly's lack of support as a reason for his failures there, but he made it hard for that team to build around because people didn't want to play with a ball hog who couldn't shoot. Dikembe and Ratliff's defense bailed him out more times than I could count when he chased after steals and let his guy get to the basket.

I mean, in 04 the dude was averaging under .400 from the field and taking nearly 25 shots a game. And when he had a big scorer next to him, he didn't even get out of the first round


But none of that fawking matters becaue this isn't a thread about AI: it' about Melo.

AI had sharp turn in his career and played his way out of the league. That's a fact.

Now... does Melo do the same thing? Or does he transition gracefully to role player and make an impact the way guys like Mark Aguirre did? That's the question.

But you want to p!$$ all over this and use it as an means to praise a ball hog who took too many shots. We get... he was a great ball handlers, culd break ankles, and cudl draw a foul. That is where his game begins and ends. He got a coach who was dumb enough to play him 40 minutes a game and let him take 25+ shots a game to make his per-game averages seem imrpesive. If he played in the days of advance stats, he'd be IT at best.

Let's move on... the thread is not debaitng AI's place in the top 100 (which is a generous ranking because I could name 200 players I'd rather have to start a franchise).

1. First off smart guy, everybody does this on these threads, change the topic and I don't get how I changed this into a AI debate when it clearly states in the topic will Melo be the next AI, or is that just what pops up on my end and not yours? is AI name in this thread topic, si or no? lets play si or no

2. no I respect AI, especially seeing all the disrespect about a guy who no doubt embarrassed your favorite player, probably started with the double cross he put on Jordan rookie year, he also hit Jordan with another cross that didn't make sportscenter, but we get it he embarrassed your fav player at some point and time, but don't worry he has the most of those type of plays in nba history, top 3 at worst

3. Well who cares what advanced stats say, lets just focus strictly on court / game film, since what legends of the game like Shaq / Kobe / Lebron / HOF Coach Daly and others say don't matter, lets not ever bring up advanced / ts / per and other alphabet numbers you can think of to try and justify your ranking of players, and how the hell is pound for pound horeshit? Sugar Ray Robinson is pound for pound the 'greatest'(best / most dominant) boxer ever so how in the hell is he ranked in practically every top 5 - 10 ranking? you just think it is horseshit because it doesn't fit your favorite player standards, I bet if Bron said it about your favorite player you would say its the King James Holy Bible scriptures of your player.... StandDown

according to you it doesn't matter most think / say Jordan is the GOAT, or that Duncan is the greatest PF ever, its all horseshit, on a individual level what didn't AI not accomplish on the court? DPOY? well he won back to back DPOY at G'Town so I guess he can celebrate it on that level, what can you expect to accomplish as a team with Mckie / Snow riding shotgun for years then you switch to M Jackson / Korver? what would Duncan accomplish with Snow / Mckie? nothing I am sure of it, sure Duncan would get his since he is one of the most dominant / best players ever, like AI

4. Focus on roster surroundings / chemistry / coaching and then stats and achievements because putting a player in a position to succeed is most important, then look at how that player performed with less, its almost like comparing a middle to poor class vs. wealthy / rich, I admire the former way more just because they are making it by with way less and doing no complaining, AI had the weakest rosters and maxed them out, if you cant see that then you are over ranking players like you normally do in your life, StandDown

5. of course you could name 30 over rated guards to draft over him, it would be your team and you would lose to mine, easily, I could counter your picks with my players and say the same thing, StandDown

6. No you mention the lack of support because you have looked it up and seen for yourself it was very weak as far as title contenders / offensively, look here smart guy, when you are a 20 yr old and 1st overall pick and your team / org. has 2 lottery picks in consecutive years after that's how you draft, I already told you they passed up on 3 HOF'ers, 2 of those could have teamed up with the 3rd that was already there, Iverson, so miss me with that nobody wanted to play there because the team was 18 win team so you build through the draft then purge a decent free agent or two, you don't have any sources from the horses mouth claiming they didn't want to play with Iverson, you are just making ******** up, I posted quotes from Bron / vids of whoever was making a claim for Iverson, so that sits as supreme authority, especially when in this era everything is a secret source, I stated quotes that are on the public record, which stands supreme until proven otherwise, StandDown

7. You are a Iverson super-duper faker, he made 10 out of 24fg attempts per game which was 42% and put up basically 31ppg 8apg 4rpg and over 2spg in 42mpg and had the superstar 1st ballot HOF support cast pre - Webber trade of M. Jackson 12ppg(Robin), Korver 11.5ppg(Larry), Kenny Thomas 11.3ppg(Curly), C. Williamson 10.8ppg(Moe) and still managed to finish 2nd in the Atlantic, you are truly a super duper AI faker, after studying what I teach to you and others on here you guys are really a AI closet fan, StandDown

8. This thread is about Melo, Melo is not on AI level, that's why the title shouldn't have mentioned AI name, I didn't make the thread so beef with whoever did, and if you created this thread stand in the mirror every morning and slap yourself and think of 'euro' every time you do it and say how could I have been so wrong about The Answer

9. I want to praise a ballhog who took to many shots, but yet you still gloss over M Jackson and his 11ppg, do you even know who M Jackson is? not the nba tv game announcer dime dropper,but the big man? where do you rank M Jackson since Iverson was such a ballhog?did he take shots from those players or did Iverson do what was best for the team since he was the ultimate shot creator / playmaker? its funny because by 05' the original 5ppg scoring core was gone and they went and got guys who were like 8ppg career scorers and they still avg the 11-12ppg, so is that AI fault that they sucked pretty much at scoring their entire lives / careers? I bet you think its AI fault, poor AI

of course you would take 175 over ranked players, you go by the alphabet numbers so I am pretty sure you could find some average players in there, and all those players you pick its only 4 Shaq would take over them since he has AI top 5 ever, and its only a handful Bron would take since he said pound for pound AI is the greatest ever,Muhammad Ali said Sugar Ray Robinson was pound for pound the greatest boxer ever, I see a very similar pattern there, deal with it

StandDown

JasonJohnHorn
04-28-2018, 02:05 PM
1. First off smart guy, everybody does this on these threads, change the topic and I don't get how I changed this into a AI debate when it clearly states in the topic will Melo be the next AI, or is that just what pops up on my end and not yours? is AI name in this thread topic, si or no? lets play si or no

2. no I respect AI, especially seeing all the disrespect about a guy who no doubt embarrassed your favorite player, probably started with the double cross he put on Jordan rookie year, he also hit Jordan with another cross that didn't make sportscenter, but we get it he embarrassed your fav player at some point and time, but don't worry he has the most of those type of plays in nba history, top 3 at worst

3. Well who cares what advanced stats say, lets just focus strictly on court / game film, since what legends of the game like Shaq / Kobe / Lebron / HOF Coach Daly and others say don't matter, lets not ever bring up advanced / ts / per and other alphabet numbers you can think of to try and justify your ranking of players, and how the hell is pound for pound horeshit? Sugar Ray Robinson is pound for pound the 'greatest'(best / most dominant) boxer ever so how in the hell is he ranked in practically every top 5 - 10 ranking? you just think it is horseshit because it doesn't fit your favorite player standards, I bet if Bron said it about your favorite player you would say its the King James Holy Bible scriptures of your player.... StandDown

according to you it doesn't matter most think / say Jordan is the GOAT, or that Duncan is the greatest PF ever, its all horseshit, on a individual level what didn't AI not accomplish on the court? DPOY? well he won back to back DPOY at G'Town so I guess he can celebrate it on that level, what can you expect to accomplish as a team with Mckie / Snow riding shotgun for years then you switch to M Jackson / Korver? what would Duncan accomplish with Snow / Mckie? nothing I am sure of it, sure Duncan would get his since he is one of the most dominant / best players ever, like AI

4. Focus on roster surroundings / chemistry / coaching and then stats and achievements because putting a player in a position to succeed is most important, then look at how that player performed with less, its almost like comparing a middle to poor class vs. wealthy / rich, I admire the former way more just because they are making it by with way less and doing no complaining, AI had the weakest rosters and maxed them out, if you cant see that then you are over ranking players like you normally do in your life, StandDown

5. of course you could name 30 over rated guards to draft over him, it would be your team and you would lose to mine, easily, I could counter your picks with my players and say the same thing, StandDown

6. No you mention the lack of support because you have looked it up and seen for yourself it was very weak as far as title contenders / offensively, look here smart guy, when you are a 20 yr old and 1st overall pick and your team / org. has 2 lottery picks in consecutive years after that's how you draft, I already told you they passed up on 3 HOF'ers, 2 of those could have teamed up with the 3rd that was already there, Iverson, so miss me with that nobody wanted to play there because the team was 18 win team so you build through the draft then purge a decent free agent or two, you don't have any sources from the horses mouth claiming they didn't want to play with Iverson, you are just making ******** up, I posted quotes from Bron / vids of whoever was making a claim for Iverson, so that sits as supreme authority, especially when in this era everything is a secret source, I stated quotes that are on the public record, which stands supreme until proven otherwise, StandDown

7. You are a Iverson super-duper faker, he made 10 out of 24fg attempts per game which was 42% and put up basically 31ppg 8apg 4rpg and over 2spg in 42mpg and had the superstar 1st ballot HOF support cast pre - Webber trade of M. Jackson 12ppg(Robin), Korver 11.5ppg(Larry), Kenny Thomas 11.3ppg(Curly), C. Williamson 10.8ppg(Moe) and still managed to finish 2nd in the Atlantic, you are truly a super duper AI faker, after studying what I teach to you and others on here you guys are really a AI closet fan, StandDown

8. This thread is about Melo, Melo is not on AI level, that's why the title shouldn't have mentioned AI name, I didn't make the thread so beef with whoever did, and if you created this thread stand in the mirror every morning and slap yourself and think of 'euro' every time you do it and say how could I have been so wrong about The Answer

9. I want to praise a ballhog who took to many shots, but yet you still gloss over M Jackson and his 11ppg, do you even know who M Jackson is? not the nba tv game announcer dime dropper,but the big man? where do you rank M Jackson since Iverson was such a ballhog?did he take shots from those players or did Iverson do what was best for the team since he was the ultimate shot creator / playmaker? its funny because by 05' the original 5ppg scoring core was gone and they went and got guys who were like 8ppg career scorers and they still avg the 11-12ppg, so is that AI fault that they sucked pretty much at scoring their entire lives / careers? I bet you think its AI fault, poor AI

of course you would take 175 over ranked players, you go by the alphabet numbers so I am pretty sure you could find some average players in there, and all those players you pick its only 4 Shaq would take over them since he has AI top 5 ever, and its only a handful Bron would take since he said pound for pound AI is the greatest ever,Muhammad Ali said Sugar Ray Robinson was pound for pound the greatest boxer ever, I see a very similar pattern there, deal with it

StandDown

All I got from that is that you think I'm a smart guy and you like closing with 'stand down' when you have proven nothing.

Chronz
04-28-2018, 02:32 PM
AI n I are both top 1 billion basketball players to ever lace them up

still a fan
04-28-2018, 07:46 PM
Sad for OKC is they are stuck with Melo at 28M and he is going nowhere, no one is trading for him at that price tag. Unless someone needs to unload multi year contract (s).

Sad thing for Melo is Westbrook set him up for so many wide open three's and he missed badly. So I thought he'd be a great stretch four but he failed, and with his defense it made it that much worse.

The question will be after next year will he play for vet min somewhere to simply get a ring?

ewing
04-28-2018, 07:49 PM
Sad for OKC is they are stuck with Melo at 28M and he is going nowhere, no one is trading for him at that price tag. Unless someone needs to unload multi year contract (s).

Sad thing for Melo is Westbrook set him up for so many wide open three's and he missed badly. So I thought he'd be a great stretch four but he failed, and with his defense it made it that much worse.

The question will be after next year will he play for vet min somewhere to simply get a ring?

I remember when Melo came to us the biggest surprise was his catch and shoot numbers and Mike really tried to make him more of a catch a shoot guy instead of a post and bang/clear out dude. I knew his athleticism was gone but dude couldn't shoot either

europagnpilgrim
04-28-2018, 08:58 PM
All I got from that is that you think I'm a smart guy and you like closing with 'stand down' when you have proven nothing.

StandDown, smart guy = those who rely on alphabet numbers to rank nba players, only to forget the game is played on the court, not in numbers, numbers rely on support cast, its basic common bball sense if you have to shoot 30 times a game you wont be as efficient, you love efficiency which blinds you from the truth of impactful on the court players

Lebron doesn't agree with you smart guy, here's proof:

“Michael Jordan inspired me, and I looked up to him, but he was out of this world. A.I. was really the god.”


I recall Larry legend calling the media GOAT Jordan ''god'' in that series when MJ dropped 63pts in a loss, Bron just called AI 'god', imagine that, Bron don't know jack **** about bball, his IQ is lower tier level, especially with this comment, geez Bron come back to earth, same with Bird, come back down to earth because nobody is 'god', unless they use the word for what it really means, power / force

More from Lebron R. James: "I watch Jordan more than anybody for sure," James said in ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue. "But I'll watch tapes of A.I., too. I don't take anything from A.I.. Well, I do -- his will. They say he was 6 feet, but A.I. was like 5-10½. Do we even want to say 160? 170 [pounds]? Do we even want to give him that much weight? And he played like a 6-8 2-guard. He was one of the greatest finishers we've ever seen. You could never question his heart. Ever. He gave it his all. A.I. was like my second-favorite player growing up, after MJ."

"[Iverson] reminds me of Floyd Mayweather," James said, comparing Iverson to the undefeated boxer who has 18 titles to his name and stands just 5-foot-8. "You could never question [Iverson's] heart, his will to want to win. A true warrior."

I hate the fact that his career ended the way it did," James said Monday. "But he had an unbelievable career."

Iverson, who was officially listed at 6 feet, 165 pounds, scored 24,368 points during his career. That's 6,419 more than Calvin Murphy (17,949 points), who was the next-highest scorer at that height or smaller.

All told, Iverson has scored more points in his career than the three highest-scoring active players combined -- Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson and Nate Robinson (23,787 points).


AI son DWade3 even chimed in:Miami's Dwyane Wade also considers it a privilege that he'll be at Iverson's retirement ceremony on Wednesday.

"One of my favorite players obviously of all time. Michael Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], T-Mac [Tracy McGrady] and A.I.," Wade said. "Those were the ones that I looked up to coming up. I take pride in wearing No. 3 because A.I. wore No. 3."




As it turns out, Wade's first preseason game and regular-season game as an NBA player came against Iverson. What did he remember about those games?

"I was scared as God knows what," Wade said. "He's just a great competitor. He's one of the best to do it."


The truth doesn't need to be proved, it stands on its own, you have proven to be incompetent and have a love affair with efficiency that doesn't prove nothing outside if a guy can make 5 field goals out of 10 attempts, which you feel is the apex of a player, when the pressure mounts and a player has to shoot 30x or more it is very rare they will make 15 field goals per game, especially once you factor in the avg scoring talent around that player, that proves it for me, watch the games and prove it to yourself

StandDown


Yet it is not with the Tiny Archibalds or Spud Webbs that Iverson stands, but with the giants of the game. Iverson, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and George Gervin are the only players in NBA history with four or more scoring titles.

“He’s an incredible player, one of the top 10 in history,” former Pistons coach Chuck Daly told a visitor before Iverson ignited and torched Detroit’s defense for game-high totals of 37 points and 15 assists in a 2005 game at Wachovia Center.

“The difference (between defending Jordan and Iverson),” Daly added, “is that Michael had Scottie (Pippen), who was one of the best players in the league.”

Iverson never had a true running mate during his 10-plus years in Philadelphia, and there are many who believe that fact was his fault.


StandDown



Now come with your ''proven'' sources that claim they didn't want to play with Iverson because he shot too much, I could make the same claim about Jordan / Bron, Pippen confirmed that Jordan would tell them before every game he was getting his volume shots and any cost, Bron has pounded and pounded the ball since rookie year in the league, nobody has openly stated they wanted to come and play for those guys(superstar wise), they get older hungry vets to come and play for minimum, that's getting guys on last leg / proven aged vets, nothing of a in prime superstar clamoring to play with either Jordan or Bron, see how that works, I can say that also but at least Pippen came out and put it on public record, you are just blabbering about a bunch of internal emotions

StandDown

europagnpilgrim
04-28-2018, 09:01 PM
AI n I are both top 1 billion basketball players to ever lace them up

in your area you might be the pound for pound greatest ever, if so you are in the top 1 billion, but as of right now until further proof you are in the 2nd tier of my quadrillion range, you didn't make the first quadrillion cut, sorry Chronz maybe next year

until then choke on this:

Lebron doesn't agree with you smart guy, here's proof:

“Michael Jordan inspired me, and I looked up to him, but he was out of this world. A.I. was really the god.”


I recall Larry legend calling the media GOAT Jordan ''god'' in that series when MJ dropped 63pts in a loss, Bron just called AI 'god', imagine that, Bron don't know jack **** about bball, his IQ is lower tier level, especially with this comment, geez Bron come back to earth, same with Bird, come back down to earth because nobody is 'god', unless they use the word for what it really means, power / force

More from Lebron R. James: "I watch Jordan more than anybody for sure," James said in ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue. "But I'll watch tapes of A.I., too. I don't take anything from A.I.. Well, I do -- his will. They say he was 6 feet, but A.I. was like 5-10½. Do we even want to say 160? 170 [pounds]? Do we even want to give him that much weight? And he played like a 6-8 2-guard. He was one of the greatest finishers we've ever seen. You could never question his heart. Ever. He gave it his all. A.I. was like my second-favorite player growing up, after MJ."

"[Iverson] reminds me of Floyd Mayweather," James said, comparing Iverson to the undefeated boxer who has 18 titles to his name and stands just 5-foot-8. "You could never question [Iverson's] heart, his will to want to win. A true warrior."

I hate the fact that his career ended the way it did," James said Monday. "But he had an unbelievable career."

Iverson, who was officially listed at 6 feet, 165 pounds, scored 24,368 points during his career. That's 6,419 more than Calvin Murphy (17,949 points), who was the next-highest scorer at that height or smaller.

All told, Iverson has scored more points in his career than the three highest-scoring active players combined -- Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson and Nate Robinson (23,787 points).


AI son DWade3 even chimed in:Miami's Dwyane Wade also considers it a privilege that he'll be at Iverson's retirement ceremony on Wednesday.

"One of my favorite players obviously of all time. Michael Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], T-Mac [Tracy McGrady] and A.I.," Wade said. "Those were the ones that I looked up to coming up. I take pride in wearing No. 3 because A.I. wore No. 3."




As it turns out, Wade's first preseason game and regular-season game as an NBA player came against Iverson. What did he remember about those games?

"I was scared as God knows what," Wade said. "He's just a great competitor. He's one of the best to do it."


The truth doesn't need to be proved, it stands on its own, you have proven to be incompetent and have a love affair with efficiency that doesn't prove nothing outside if a guy can make 5 field goals out of 10 attempts, which you feel is the apex of a player, when the pressure mounts and a player has to shoot 30x or more it is very rare they will make 15 field goals per game, especially once you factor in the avg scoring talent around that player, that proves it for me, watch the games and prove it to yourself

StandDown


Yet it is not with the Tiny Archibalds or Spud Webbs that Iverson stands, but with the giants of the game. Iverson, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and George Gervin are the only players in NBA history with four or more scoring titles.

“He’s an incredible player, one of the top 10 in history,” former Pistons coach Chuck Daly told a visitor before Iverson ignited and torched Detroit’s defense for game-high totals of 37 points and 15 assists in a 2005 game at Wachovia Center.

“The difference (between defending Jordan and Iverson),” Daly added, “is that Michael had Scottie (Pippen), who was one of the best players in the league.”

Iverson never had a true running mate during his 10-plus years in Philadelphia, and there are many who believe that fact was his fault.

europagnpilgrim
04-28-2018, 09:06 PM
I didn't say Worthy was better, I just noted people might rank him higher because he won a lot.

and that's where all the water is muddied from non sense ideology formed by the fake media experts which trickles down to the sheeple, if the shoe fits wear it proudly, good luck

based on what you just said Russell is the GOAT, 13 titles in 15 seasons counting both NCAA / NBA, and we all know nobody thinks that so why think it about Worthy? same with Magic had Chicago won the coin toss he said he would have went back to Michigan st. because he know damn good well Chicago sucked and he wouldn't have been able to compete quickly for titles, same with Worthy who was drafted by a team that I think went to the Finals prior to drafting him, like really? same with Kobe, drafted in lottery by a 50+ win team, like really? the Lakers are something else




Lebron doesn't agree with you smart guy, here's proof:

“Michael Jordan inspired me, and I looked up to him, but he was out of this world. A.I. was really the god.”


I recall Larry legend calling the media GOAT Jordan ''god'' in that series when MJ dropped 63pts in a loss, Bron just called AI 'god', imagine that, Bron don't know jack **** about bball, his IQ is lower tier level, especially with this comment, geez Bron come back to earth, same with Bird, come back down to earth because nobody is 'god', unless they use the word for what it really means, power / force

More from Lebron R. James: "I watch Jordan more than anybody for sure," James said in ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue. "But I'll watch tapes of A.I., too. I don't take anything from A.I.. Well, I do -- his will. They say he was 6 feet, but A.I. was like 5-10½. Do we even want to say 160? 170 [pounds]? Do we even want to give him that much weight? And he played like a 6-8 2-guard. He was one of the greatest finishers we've ever seen. You could never question his heart. Ever. He gave it his all. A.I. was like my second-favorite player growing up, after MJ."

"[Iverson] reminds me of Floyd Mayweather," James said, comparing Iverson to the undefeated boxer who has 18 titles to his name and stands just 5-foot-8. "You could never question [Iverson's] heart, his will to want to win. A true warrior."

I hate the fact that his career ended the way it did," James said Monday. "But he had an unbelievable career."

Iverson, who was officially listed at 6 feet, 165 pounds, scored 24,368 points during his career. That's 6,419 more than Calvin Murphy (17,949 points), who was the next-highest scorer at that height or smaller.

All told, Iverson has scored more points in his career than the three highest-scoring active players combined -- Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson and Nate Robinson (23,787 points).


AI son DWade3 even chimed in:Miami's Dwyane Wade also considers it a privilege that he'll be at Iverson's retirement ceremony on Wednesday.

"One of my favorite players obviously of all time. Michael Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], T-Mac [Tracy McGrady] and A.I.," Wade said. "Those were the ones that I looked up to coming up. I take pride in wearing No. 3 because A.I. wore No. 3."




As it turns out, Wade's first preseason game and regular-season game as an NBA player came against Iverson. What did he remember about those games?

"I was scared as God knows what," Wade said. "He's just a great competitor. He's one of the best to do it."


The truth doesn't need to be proved, it stands on its own, you have proven to be incompetent and have a love affair with efficiency that doesn't prove nothing outside if a guy can make 5 field goals out of 10 attempts, which you feel is the apex of a player, when the pressure mounts and a player has to shoot 30x or more it is very rare they will make 15 field goals per game, especially once you factor in the avg scoring talent around that player, that proves it for me, watch the games and prove it to yourself

StandDown


Yet it is not with the Tiny Archibalds or Spud Webbs that Iverson stands, but with the giants of the game. Iverson, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and George Gervin are the only players in NBA history with four or more scoring titles.

“He’s an incredible player, one of the top 10 in history,” former Pistons coach Chuck Daly told a visitor before Iverson ignited and torched Detroit’s defense for game-high totals of 37 points and 15 assists in a 2005 game at Wachovia Center.

“The difference (between defending Jordan and Iverson),” Daly added, “is that Michael had Scottie (Pippen), who was one of the best players in the league.”

Iverson never had a true running mate during his 10-plus years in Philadelphia, and there are many who believe that fact was his fault.

Chronz
04-28-2018, 09:42 PM
Sad for OKC is they are stuck with Melo at 28M and he is going nowhere, no one is trading for him at that price tag. Unless someone needs to unload multi year contract (s).

Sad thing for Melo is Westbrook set him up for so many wide open three's and he missed badly. So I thought he'd be a great stretch four but he failed, and with his defense it made it that much worse.

The question will be after next year will he play for vet min somewhere to simply get a ring?
Andre Roberson was the greater player this year

ewing
04-28-2018, 10:10 PM
Andre Roberson was the greater player this year

no doubt, he is a heck of a defender and Russ doesn't let many guys tough the ball anyways

JasonJohnHorn
04-28-2018, 10:27 PM
StandDown, smart guy = those who rely on alphabet numbers to rank nba players, only to forget the game is played on the court, not in numbers, numbers rely on support cast, its basic common bball sense if you have to shoot 30 times a game you wont be as efficient, you love efficiency which blinds you from the truth of impactful on the court players

Lebron doesn't agree with you smart guy, here's proof:

“Michael Jordan inspired me, and I looked up to him, but he was out of this world. A.I. was really the god.”


I recall Larry legend calling the media GOAT Jordan ''god'' in that series when MJ dropped 63pts in a loss, Bron just called AI 'god', imagine that, Bron don't know jack **** about bball, his IQ is lower tier level, especially with this comment, geez Bron come back to earth, same with Bird, come back down to earth because nobody is 'god', unless they use the word for what it really means, power / force

More from Lebron R. James: "I watch Jordan more than anybody for sure," James said in ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue. "But I'll watch tapes of A.I., too. I don't take anything from A.I.. Well, I do -- his will. They say he was 6 feet, but A.I. was like 5-10½. Do we even want to say 160? 170 [pounds]? Do we even want to give him that much weight? And he played like a 6-8 2-guard. He was one of the greatest finishers we've ever seen. You could never question his heart. Ever. He gave it his all. A.I. was like my second-favorite player growing up, after MJ."

"[Iverson] reminds me of Floyd Mayweather," James said, comparing Iverson to the undefeated boxer who has 18 titles to his name and stands just 5-foot-8. "You could never question [Iverson's] heart, his will to want to win. A true warrior."

I hate the fact that his career ended the way it did," James said Monday. "But he had an unbelievable career."

Iverson, who was officially listed at 6 feet, 165 pounds, scored 24,368 points during his career. That's 6,419 more than Calvin Murphy (17,949 points), who was the next-highest scorer at that height or smaller.

All told, Iverson has scored more points in his career than the three highest-scoring active players combined -- Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson and Nate Robinson (23,787 points).


AI son DWade3 even chimed in:Miami's Dwyane Wade also considers it a privilege that he'll be at Iverson's retirement ceremony on Wednesday.

"One of my favorite players obviously of all time. Michael Jordan, Kobe [Bryant], T-Mac [Tracy McGrady] and A.I.," Wade said. "Those were the ones that I looked up to coming up. I take pride in wearing No. 3 because A.I. wore No. 3."




As it turns out, Wade's first preseason game and regular-season game as an NBA player came against Iverson. What did he remember about those games?

"I was scared as God knows what," Wade said. "He's just a great competitor. He's one of the best to do it."


The truth doesn't need to be proved, it stands on its own, you have proven to be incompetent and have a love affair with efficiency that doesn't prove nothing outside if a guy can make 5 field goals out of 10 attempts, which you feel is the apex of a player, when the pressure mounts and a player has to shoot 30x or more it is very rare they will make 15 field goals per game, especially once you factor in the avg scoring talent around that player, that proves it for me, watch the games and prove it to yourself

StandDown


Yet it is not with the Tiny Archibalds or Spud Webbs that Iverson stands, but with the giants of the game. Iverson, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain and George Gervin are the only players in NBA history with four or more scoring titles.

“He’s an incredible player, one of the top 10 in history,” former Pistons coach Chuck Daly told a visitor before Iverson ignited and torched Detroit’s defense for game-high totals of 37 points and 15 assists in a 2005 game at Wachovia Center.

“The difference (between defending Jordan and Iverson),” Daly added, “is that Michael had Scottie (Pippen), who was one of the best players in the league.”

Iverson never had a true running mate during his 10-plus years in Philadelphia, and there are many who believe that fact was his fault.


StandDown



Now come with your ''proven'' sources that claim they didn't want to play with Iverson because he shot too much, I could make the same claim about Jordan / Bron, Pippen confirmed that Jordan would tell them before every game he was getting his volume shots and any cost, Bron has pounded and pounded the ball since rookie year in the league, nobody has openly stated they wanted to come and play for those guys(superstar wise), they get older hungry vets to come and play for minimum, that's getting guys on last leg / proven aged vets, nothing of a in prime superstar clamoring to play with either Jordan or Bron, see how that works, I can say that also but at least Pippen came out and put it on public record, you are just blabbering about a bunch of internal emotions

StandDown

You just keep calling me smart guy and saying 'stand down' after using logical fallacies. You think this is proving something?

You say the game's not played with stats but on the court; but all you got is words. "Some player said this; therefore it's true." Guess what... the game isn't played on talking heads and stats offer more evidence than somebody's opinion.

Also... Jordan wanted the Bulls to draft Joe Wolf over Pippen (https://basketball.******.com/wiretap/198801/Jordan-Wanted-Joe-Wolf-Instead-Of-Pippen-In-87-Draft) and was angry they traded Oakley for Cartright.

So, saying an GOAT player like one player more than another doesn't prove anything because... guess what... they don't always know what they are talking about. If they did, then every GOAT player would be great GMs, and that simply doesn't happen (look at the Bobcats/Hornets draft record under Jordan).


But hey... why don't you just respond with a long, non-sensical reponses that restates the logically fallacies you've already repeated five times and call me 'smart guy' repeatedly while closing each paragraph with 'stand down'. Again.

Chronz
04-29-2018, 01:37 AM
no doubt, he is a heck of a defender and Russ doesn't let many guys tough the ball anyways
They should build around him just like AI. Surround him with team first defenders and let him hog the ballto his hearts content cuz he doesn't bring much outside his own production

europagnpilgrim
04-29-2018, 02:12 AM
You just keep calling me smart guy and saying 'stand down' after using logical fallacies. You think this is proving something?

You say the game's not played with stats but on the court; but all you got is words. "Some player said this; therefore it's true." Guess what... the game isn't played on talking heads and stats offer more evidence than somebody's opinion.

Also... Jordan wanted the Bulls to draft Joe Wolf over Pippen (https://basketball.******.com/wiretap/198801/Jordan-Wanted-Joe-Wolf-Instead-Of-Pippen-In-87-Draft) and was angry they traded Oakley for Cartright.

So, saying an GOAT player like one player more than another doesn't prove anything because... guess what... they don't always know what they are talking about. If they did, then every GOAT player would be great GMs, and that simply doesn't happen (look at the Bobcats/Hornets draft record under Jordan).


But hey... why don't you just respond with a long, non-sensical reponses that restates the logically fallacies you've already repeated five times and call me 'smart guy' repeatedly while closing each paragraph with 'stand down'. Again.

Iverson cried when Sixers passed up on Pierce in 98' draft, AI knew he was the frontcourt / SF help that he desperately could have used, a HOF'er at that to add to his HOF game / impact

so you bringing up Jordan wanted his UNC buddies just shows that he was bias as hell when selecting mates, just as Zeke says he will chose his bad boy pistons squad over Jabbar / Wilt and whoever else you throw out there, and that would be equal to you trying to draft 175 players over Iverson, pure ********

Shaq never played with AI so why would he be bias as he would toward a Penny / Kobe / Wade? Daly never coached AI like he did Zeke so why would he say AI is top 10 player ever? you went from the smart to 'funny guy' just like that, why would Lebron have Jordan and AI poster on his wall growing up if he didn't view them as pretty much equal, as he has quoted on the public record? c'mon funny guy educate me if you can

here is another public record source from the horses mouth:Larry Brown used to be one of those general managers, perhaps not in title but it role, with the Philadelphia 76ers. As he approached his second draft with the team in 1998, the notoriously impatient coach/executive needed to make a splash – he needed an immediate contributor, especially with Allen Iverson set to hit unrestricted free agency in 1999.

So, Kansas junior and All-American Paul Pierce, right? The guy seemed ready-made to drop 20 just about right away, and Tim Thomas (Brown’s pick the prior year) hadn’t exactly excelled in his rookie season the prior year. Brown passed on Pierce, however, in selecting hybrid guard Larry Hughes due to a sad promise. From Mass Live’s Jay King, transcribing an interview with an interview at Philadelphia’s 97.5 The Fanatic:




"We took Larry Hughes because (with the eighth pick) because we thought we had a need," he said. "But the reason we took Larry is I promised him when we interviewed him -- we knew we were getting the eighth pick -- I promised him if he was there at (No.) 8 we would take him."





[…]





"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."


So now there you have it, the guy who put together all these defenders could have had TMAC and PIERCE or DIRK, but settled for T Thomas / Hughes, you are the type of GM that would select 2 serviceable to fringe all stars for 2 sure fire first ballot HOF'ers, you are incompetent from here on out to speak on bball, try baseball or wwe


So AI knew talent, he wanted Hughes for TMac trade to go down, he wanted Pierce on draft day, cried according to Stephen A Smith on sportscenter years ago

being a GM and being a actual player / legend speaking on another is way different, Jordan not being able to pick talent doesn't mean the same as him speaking on competing and playing against Magic, and just because Magic can pick talent doesn't mean he was better at playing ball than Jordan

you are reaching for straws now because I presented the actual 'sources', not those that leak information and have you going crazy trying to figure out the names of the ghost sources, these are public record quotes from legends / icons of the game speaking on another and you are mad because you feel like AI is not and they would know more actually competing against that guy, he gave Shaq his only 01' postseason loss, Shaq was on the verge of history until the ''lil version of Shaq''(his words not mine) took over and dropped basically 50 on the road to steal a game

and to think flash inthepan bolt asked what AI accomplished in the nba, well there is 1 accomplishment right there, putting a end to a perfect postseason run by a dynasty, In the Finals

breaking news: StandDown

europagnpilgrim
04-29-2018, 02:20 AM
They should build around him just like AI. Surround him with team first defenders and let him hog the ballto his hearts content cuz he doesn't bring much outside his own production

Iverson cried when Sixers passed up on Pierce in 98' draft, AI knew he was the frontcourt / SF help that he desperately could have used, a HOF'er at that to add to his HOF game / impact

so you bringing up Jordan wanted his UNC buddies just shows that he was bias as hell when selecting mates, just as Zeke says he will chose his bad boy pistons squad over Jabbar / Wilt and whoever else you throw out there, and that would be equal to you trying to draft 175 players over Iverson, pure ********

here is another public record source from the horses mouth:Larry Brown used to be one of those general managers, perhaps not in title but it role, with the Philadelphia 76ers. As he approached his second draft with the team in 1998, the notoriously impatient coach/executive needed to make a splash – he needed an immediate contributor, especially with Allen Iverson set to hit unrestricted free agency in 1999.

So, Kansas junior and All-American Paul Pierce, right? The guy seemed ready-made to drop 20 just about right away, and Tim Thomas (Brown’s pick the prior year) hadn’t exactly excelled in his rookie season the prior year. Brown passed on Pierce, however, in selecting hybrid guard Larry Hughes due to a sad promise. From Mass Live’s Jay King, transcribing an interview with an interview at Philadelphia’s 97.5 The Fanatic:




"We took Larry Hughes because (with the eighth pick) because we thought we had a need," he said. "But the reason we took Larry is I promised him when we interviewed him -- we knew we were getting the eighth pick -- I promised him if he was there at (No.) 8 we would take him."





[…]





"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."


So now there you have it, the guy who put together all these defenders could have had TMAC and PIERCE or DIRK, but settled for T Thomas / Hughes, you are the type of GM that would select 2 serviceable to fringe all stars for 2 sure fire first ballot HOF'ers, you are incompetent from here on out to speak on bball, try baseball or wwe

Heediot
04-29-2018, 03:49 AM
Melo doesn't want to come off the Bench next year because it's a contract year. He's going to go hard in the off-season in hopes of regaining his form and get one final nice contract. I think he'll change his tune after contract negotiations.

Still the guy was the main reason they lost to Utah. Melo's playoff efficiency over his career has been terrible.

Heediot
04-29-2018, 03:58 AM
To add to the above, I just hope he doesn't pull an Iverson and let his ego get in the way of helping a team win.

bagwell368
04-29-2018, 11:23 AM
If a team needs scoring off the bench and doesn't care about leadership or passing or being a good teammate - if he signs for the right price - he'd be OK. That's it, still don't believe he is willing to take that much of a back seat.

BKLYNpigeon
04-29-2018, 11:57 AM
Melo couldn't even make open jump shots.

JasonJohnHorn
04-29-2018, 10:39 PM
Iverson cried when Sixers passed up on Pierce in 98' draft, AI knew he was the frontcourt / SF help that he desperately could have used, a HOF'er at that to add to his HOF game / impact

so you bringing up Jordan wanted his UNC buddies just shows that he was bias as hell when selecting mates, just as Zeke says he will chose his bad boy pistons squad over Jabbar / Wilt and whoever else you throw out there, and that would be equal to you trying to draft 175 players over Iverson, pure ********

Shaq never played with AI so why would he be bias as he would toward a Penny / Kobe / Wade? Daly never coached AI like he did Zeke so why would he say AI is top 10 player ever? you went from the smart to 'funny guy' just like that, why would Lebron have Jordan and AI poster on his wall growing up if he didn't view them as pretty much equal, as he has quoted on the public record? c'mon funny guy educate me if you can

here is another public record source from the horses mouth:Larry Brown used to be one of those general managers, perhaps not in title but it role, with the Philadelphia 76ers. As he approached his second draft with the team in 1998, the notoriously impatient coach/executive needed to make a splash – he needed an immediate contributor, especially with Allen Iverson set to hit unrestricted free agency in 1999.

So, Kansas junior and All-American Paul Pierce, right? The guy seemed ready-made to drop 20 just about right away, and Tim Thomas (Brown’s pick the prior year) hadn’t exactly excelled in his rookie season the prior year. Brown passed on Pierce, however, in selecting hybrid guard Larry Hughes due to a sad promise. From Mass Live’s Jay King, transcribing an interview with an interview at Philadelphia’s 97.5 The Fanatic:




"We took Larry Hughes because (with the eighth pick) because we thought we had a need," he said. "But the reason we took Larry is I promised him when we interviewed him -- we knew we were getting the eighth pick -- I promised him if he was there at (No.) 8 we would take him."





[…]





"I always think you should take the very best player," he said. "Whatever we wrote on the board, we used to write by position during the draft the best players, then we would write needs, and then we would write the best players period. And I always used to tell our staff, we've gotta go for the best player period and not even think about our needs, unless they were very, very close."


So now there you have it, the guy who put together all these defenders could have had TMAC and PIERCE or DIRK, but settled for T Thomas / Hughes, you are the type of GM that would select 2 serviceable to fringe all stars for 2 sure fire first ballot HOF'ers, you are incompetent from here on out to speak on bball, try baseball or wwe


So AI knew talent, he wanted Hughes for TMac trade to go down, he wanted Pierce on draft day, cried according to Stephen A Smith on sportscenter years ago

being a GM and being a actual player / legend speaking on another is way different, Jordan not being able to pick talent doesn't mean the same as him speaking on competing and playing against Magic, and just because Magic can pick talent doesn't mean he was better at playing ball than Jordan

you are reaching for straws now because I presented the actual 'sources', not those that leak information and have you going crazy trying to figure out the names of the ghost sources, these are public record quotes from legends / icons of the game speaking on another and you are mad because you feel like AI is not and they would know more actually competing against that guy, he gave Shaq his only 01' postseason loss, Shaq was on the verge of history until the ''lil version of Shaq''(his words not mine) took over and dropped basically 50 on the road to steal a game

and to think flash inthepan bolt asked what AI accomplished in the nba, well there is 1 accomplishment right there, putting a end to a perfect postseason run by a dynasty, In the Finals

breaking news: StandDown

Oh... stand down again coupled with meaningless drivel. Surprise.

It's like you are utterly incapable of understanding what is written? Who cares who Iverson wanted to draft?

You used an appeal to authority, saying that "these great players said Iverson was the best; therefore, Iverson is among the best." I simply pointed out that great players can be wrong (citing Jordan picking Joe Wolf, who he played with, over Pippen).

Rather than seeing the point as highlighting why your 'appeal to authority' argument is flawed, especially in your refusual to look at quantifiable evience, you somehow thought I wanted you to give a list of players who Iverson wanted drafted?

WTF? Dude... that is dense. But go ahead and just spout out more drivel and close with 'stand down' again.

europagnpilgrim
04-30-2018, 02:51 PM
To add to the above, I just hope he doesn't pull an Iverson and let his ego get in the way of helping a team win.


excellent point, those ego maniacs are stuck in their ways for most part, it has happened since the beginning of sports, B Russell wanted one more dollar than Wilt according to Auerbach, ego at its finest / highest order and Bill is the ultimate winner, with a massive ego to go along with it no matter how humble he comes off, he wanted to be the leagues highest paid player over Wilt every time

europagnpilgrim
04-30-2018, 03:03 PM
Oh... stand down again coupled with meaningless drivel. Surprise.

It's like you are utterly incapable of understanding what is written? Who cares who Iverson wanted to draft?

You used an appeal to authority, saying that "these great players said Iverson was the best; therefore, Iverson is among the best." I simply pointed out that great players can be wrong (citing Jordan picking Joe Wolf, who he played with, over Pippen).

Rather than seeing the point as highlighting why your 'appeal to authority' argument is flawed, especially in your refusual to look at quantifiable evience, you somehow thought I wanted you to give a list of players who Iverson wanted drafted?

WTF? Dude... that is dense. But go ahead and just spout out more drivel and close with 'stand down' again.


who cares who Jordan wanted to draft or trade for because he was biased towards his UNC brotherhood, Iverson wanted Pierce because he was arguably the best NCAA player in the draft and was there for the taking at 8th pick, so AI knew Pierce was the frontcourt help the team needed and Brown went with his choice just as he did building the team around AI with his defensive mentality, not because others didn't want to come and play with him, they were a ****** team and needed to be built through the draft, not free agency, they passed up on 2 - 3 other HOF'ers and ended up with only 1 in Iverson, if you don't see the diff. in those moves from winning big to struggling to win with 5ppg career scorers then you need to cover and debate other sports and not the nba.

I bet if Jordan had a discussion about who is the best / most dominant players that he went up against and those before him I ''Guarantee'' you that he wont mention Wolf in that category, I bet he feels Magic is the more dominant player, you are trying to compare a players GM skills to what they actually can do or did on the court, just because Kidd / Nash were all star PG's doesn't mean they are going to be tremendous head coaches because it all depends if they have the talent or not, had Kerr chosen to go to Knicks instead he wouldn't be heralded as this supposed 'genius' of a coach, just look at L Walton and how he looked with Warriors and now with Lakers, same coach just diff. talent, same situation with AI, draft HOF'ers to surround him with and they win big, and I mean super big, put fringe G League talent around him and you get 1 finals trip in 10yrs

and once again I provided the L Brown source with him publicly stated the incompetent move(s) he made, and you have yet to provide any sources from players claiming they didn't want to play with AI because he shot too much, which makes you only to focus on the stupid statement of 'standDown', what a way to tap dance around what I actually quote from the sources mouth

so is L Brown word not good on the 98' draft debacle? or is his words just like Bron / Shaq / Daly / Kobe / Wade / CP3 when they speak super highly of AI? you cant have it both ways

also notice how AI gets highest of praise from old school head in Daly, then on to newer school player in Shaq, then same class / peer in Kobe, then from the newer school but now vets in Bron / CP3 / Wade and now the new school guards Irving / Lillard etc etc. all play more like him than any player you can think of, if that isn't dominance / impact then I don't know what is

its a reason why Sportscenter had a segment comparing who had a bigger cultural impact, the media GOAT Jordan vs. the People's GOAT Allen Iverson

you cant say show a source then once the source is shown / proven then back track and say what they say doesn't matter and then try to justify it by saying Jordan wanted Wolf when Jordan had nothing to do with the debate, and then go on to say I am turning this into a AI debate when actually AI name is in the topic of the thread, you are becoming more incompetent by the reply

its just like if those same players would have came out and said the same about Nash / Kidd / Stockton as being the 'greatest' pound for pound player ever, I would use those quotes to back up those players but they wouldn't say it about those players because they weren't on that level like Iverson was

and out of those so called 200 players you would draft over Iverson, make sure you add that player to the 01' team / entire 10yr career with the same talent and I bet only at max two handful of players would get that team to the playoffs barely, let alone a Finals trip, its not many built like AI, those who are built like that are vastly superior in height / weight, which is why Bron said Iverson play like he was a 6'8'' two guard, Bron is right on point

its that damn simple jasonjohn'littlebig'horn

StandDown

JasonJohnHorn
04-30-2018, 09:03 PM
who cares who Jordan wanted to draft or trade for because he was biased towards his UNC brotherhood, Iverson wanted Pierce because he was arguably the best NCAA player in the draft and was there for the taking at 8th pick, so AI knew Pierce was the frontcourt help the team needed and Brown went with his choice just as he did building the team around AI with his defensive mentality


:facepalm:
It's like you know how to write, but somehow do not know how to read.

I'm going to say this one more time. You reject a statistical analysis of Iverson's game (quantifiable evidence) and instead rely on the 'appeal to the authority', saying Shaq, and Kobe, and LBJ said AI was among the best ever.

I was pointing out that the appeal to authority is wrong, and gave you an example: Jordan thought Joe Wolf was better than Pippen. He was wrong. Therefore, elite players are not always right about who is better or best, and your appeal to authority has just been shot down.


So.. to answer your, "who cares who Jordan wanted to draft or trade for": You do. You are the one relying on the appeal to authority. If that is your response, then let me offer you one:

Who cares what LBJ, Kobe, or Shaq have to say about how good Iverson was?

And you can drone on and on about how he didn't have a supporting cast, but KD didn't have a supporting cast his first year in OKC, and he still posted .400 from the arc and over .480 from inside. MJ didn't have a supporting cast when he averaged 37 a game and still shot .482 from the field. Mitch Richmnd didn't have a supporting cast in Sacramento, and he still shot 46% from the field and 38% from the arc (the later was an improvement from when he played with Run TMC).

Iverson couldn't shoot. Period. I dont' care what your excuses are.



its that damn simple jasonjohn'littlebig'horn

StandDown

I gotta say... this is likely the dumbest thing you've said, that that's saying something.

Do you even know what 'Little Bighorn' is/was?

Little Bighorn was a river, an Anglicized version of the Indigenous name for the river. The American miltary fought Indigneous people there and lost. It was known as Custer's last stand.

You are essentially referring to me the name of a territory named by and succesfully defended by Native Americans. It's a compliment. I'll gladly take it as such.

In future though, I strongly suggest not using ethnic references as a means of trying to insult people. It is disrespectful.


I also recommend reading the comment you are responding to. If there are words or terms you don't understand, either look those terms up before responding, or don't bother responding.

FlashBolt
04-30-2018, 10:51 PM
AI was a selfish player who legitimately asked, "How is practice supposed to help my teammates get better?" And Melo is the same player who doesn't understand that he's way past his prime. Even on the Knicks, Melo was just a scorer who was quite inefficient compared to other superstars in the league. We expected Melo to be the same Melo we saw in the Olympics but he never caught onto that. He's missing wide open shots and seems satisfied with his career. Both are selfish players but AI had more heart.

Euro is going to be upset but who cares? The guy actually thinks AI is a top 20 player and his sole evidence for that is: LeBron said AI is p4p the best player in NBA history. LMAO. What the hell does that even mean?

europagnpilgrim
05-01-2018, 09:04 AM
:facepalm:
It's like you know how to write, but somehow do not know how to read.

I'm going to say this one more time. You reject a statistical analysis of Iverson's game (quantifiable evidence) and instead rely on the 'appeal to the authority', saying Shaq, and Kobe, and LBJ said AI was among the best ever.

I was pointing out that the appeal to authority is wrong, and gave you an example: Jordan thought Joe Wolf was better than Pippen. He was wrong. Therefore, elite players are not always right about who is better or best, and your appeal to authority has just been shot down.


So.. to answer your, "who cares who Jordan wanted to draft or trade for": You do. You are the one relying on the appeal to authority. If that is your response, then let me offer you one:

Who cares what LBJ, Kobe, or Shaq have to say about how good Iverson was?

And you can drone on and on about how he didn't have a supporting cast, but KD didn't have a supporting cast his first year in OKC, and he still posted .400 from the arc and over .480 from inside. MJ didn't have a supporting cast when he averaged 37 a game and still shot .482 from the field. Mitch Richmnd didn't have a supporting cast in Sacramento, and he still shot 46% from the field and 38% from the arc (the later was an improvement from when he played with Run TMC).

Iverson couldn't shoot. Period. I dont' care what your excuses are.




I gotta say... this is likely the dumbest thing you've said, that that's saying something.

Do you even know what 'Little Bighorn' is/was?

Little Bighorn was a river, an Anglicized version of the Indigenous name for the river. The American miltary fought Indigneous people there and lost. It was known as Custer's last stand.

You are essentially referring to me the name of a territory named by and succesfully defended by Native Americans. It's a compliment. I'll gladly take it as such.

In future though, I strongly suggest not using ethnic references as a means of trying to insult people. It is disrespectful.


I also recommend reading the comment you are responding to. If there are words or terms you don't understand, either look those terms up before responding, or don't bother responding.


Now you are really boxed into a stumped corner, its like you know how to utilize certain alphabet gang letters to try and justify your position but forgot the flip side to those stats are based on teammates / org. moves

like for instance you know damn good well if you throw out your stats and just put 3 HOF'ers young / apex on a team with a HOF coach they sure as hell are going to pretty much figure it out, but you feel Snow / Mckie / Lynch are I guess all star players that Iverson took shots from and then you gloss over the fact that those guys were inefficient / non volume shooters pre - Iverson, so could it be that those players are the reason he shot such a low FG according to your alphabet gang letters of PER / TS / ROSVSP / and any other ********? the easiest example would be how OKC built the team when drafting KD then Westbrook then Harden, well damn that's 3 mvp / HOF caliber players and they end up making Finals together pretty much, same with Shaq / Penny, you don't know how to build no team and you for sure don't know how to analyze bball

Iverson shot 25+ times because it was needed then he goes to play with Melo almost 11yrs later and shots 18 times per game, which last I checked is less than 25 significantly in nba terms, then he goes to a even more complicated off. structure and avg 14 shots per game in Detroit which last I checked is less than 18 per game, but all I hear from you and other incompetents on this topic is that he was a ball hog and wanted to just shoot and shoot, well how come he didn't keep this Kobe mentality and stay jacking up shots? how come he didn't hot all the shots up from Melo or Detroit system? you and 'flash inthepan bolt' etc. nba pass has been revoked, or am I using revoked in a wrong manner as well since you seem to be so into these modern definitions of words but don't know its original meaning, too bad I am of the ancient indigenous, black means pale / bleach, etymology at its apex

Jordan wanted Wolf over Pippen purely on a UNC brother hood, that has nothing to do with him feeling such and such is better, he just wanted his college / UNC mates over whoever, same with Zeke who mentioned on public record that he would take the bad boy pistons over any and all players no matter the dominant / legend status of whatever player, so Zeke / Jordan / Jason ''little ball boy'' john are all full of **** when it comes to building a team or picking their players for their teams, this has nothing to do with Jordan actually speaking on Wolf and saying he is the best player ever or best European player ever, just like Zeke is not saying Laimbeer or Dumars are Wilt or Jordan but he would take ''his'' guys over those all time legends, now if you don't see this as purely bias and showing GM ignorant skills at its highest, just like your 200 so called players you would draft over Iverson, pure ********

how is it an appeal to authority when its coaches / players eras apart speaking the same high praise for such player? Magic has heaped high praise and he played in the 80's, Daly coached against Magic, that is a players opinion on his peers, not an appeal to authority, unless you are saying the nba players opinions are rigged like the refs / games ,then you got me and we should never speak on any player ever, Bron is not a top 10 player ever because we are not going to bow down to an appeal to authority, StandDown4Eva

If Jordan thought Pippen was better than Wolf than that's on him and his dumb in the moment thinking, just like AI thought Pierce was the best player available and cried when they didn't draft him, so Iverson knew more about players / talent than Jordan, so what, good for Iverson

and for the last time are you this bball incompetent? of course a bigger man should and would shoot a higher percentage than a midget who is asked to do the same as the bigger player, its like Shaq or Capela or Jordan or Wilt shooting in the 60% and close to 70%, well because they get dunks pretty much all the time, well Wilt had the complete arsenal but you get my drift, so imagine a 6'4'' guy shooting a higher percentage than a 5'9'' guy, and the 5'9'' guy was getting Jordan rules thrown at him, KD is 7Footer

if Iverson was same height of those players with his same attributes you would be screaming about how efficient he is and I would be like **** efficiency the guy is a dominant freak of nature, same as I do now

reaching for straws once again when bringing up his field goal percentage and leaving out his support cast / 5ppg career scorers

and I am glad you mentioned those guys not having help and shooting percentage, it goes to show you Iverson had more difficult degree, he was getting Jordan rules thrown at him, when has KD ever endured that? outside of Shaq / Duncan who has really endured Jordan rules, why triple team a inefficient ball hog shot jacker? c'mon smart guy, little johnnie / Debbie

why did Iverson shoot 46% in his 12th season? was it because he had his 5ppg scorers or a young stud in Melo who was avg 34ppg before AI arrived there?

Iverson couldn't shoot? go watch his college games where he 8 threes so effortlessly you would think it was a simulation being done, that's why I know you don't know **** about the game, you are relying on percentages to dictate rather a player can shoot or not, you are incompetent as hell

do you mean Snow and those other inefficient 5ppg career guys could shoot? you mean to tell me that Iverson held them back? but they all had career high ppg with Iverson? you are something else, you went from quasi - credible to incompetent

Iverson could shoot and did it often as Stephan A Smith has publicly quoted many times over on why the Sixers would always have him shooting with the shot clock running down since they would give him the ball with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock after he would give them the ball, each of them and they would hot potato it back to him, so I would imagine half of his shots were rushed and the other half were forced since they went to him the entire game

go watch game 1 of NBA finals and you will see what I mean by a team relying on 1 player to shoot and shoot and score and score each and every possession, its like watching grown men play hot potato with a basketball, but you want to mention FG percentage, you are not talking to a beginner, those are weak and hold no water, I don't care what excuse you use, I use sources / facts

you use excuses, like Jordan and Wolf who had nothing to do with the conversation but you try to mention it to throw off what really is being said

Iverson is highly respected / praised by his elders / peers, you fanatics need to StandDown



Do you know the actual name of the Mississippi River? do you know who the Native Americans truly are? do you know who wrote the American Constitution? you know who wrote the treaty of Peace&Friendship 1787? what does it really mean? do you know that G Washington was like the 10th president, do you know Obama was like the 10th melanin president but was sold to you as the 1st ''black'' president? do you know ''black'' is not a nationality nor a race but a description of something, do you know what American definition truly means? do you know who are the true indigenous people of the Americas? you do know that United States is of America but America is not of the United States? do you know who dominions / empire you are walking on right now in the Americas? do you know who the true slaves / slavs / albions are? do you know who the 'declaration of independence' was written for? are you a U.S. Citizen, are you a 14th / 15th amendment slav?


did you know the the true meaning of the word ''black'' means ''pale / to bleach''? do you know what 'Free White Persons' mean? it will be shocking to most on here who claim to be a albion on here.

the battle of little big horn was a battle between my indigenous bloodline vs. the colonizers / slavs, all of it was from the Civil to American War, so you can miss me with the pity party, I know true - story, you know his - story

and if American military was warring against the 'indigenous Americans' who was this ''American military' masquerading as? since it was basically attacking itself according to your words, the American landmass was always under the control of the indigenous and it wasn't done by 'doctrine of discovery' by colonizers / thieves, its a reason why no one really owns land, and you would understand that if you knew we sold land to albions for beads and laughed because we knew no one can truly own land, but these colonizers sware they are doing something with all these so called real estate companies

until you realize you are a walking 'real estate', literally

since your birth when they certified you, commerce

europagnpilgrim
05-01-2018, 09:17 AM
AI was a selfish player who legitimately asked, "How is practice supposed to help my teammates get better?" And Melo is the same player who doesn't understand that he's way past his prime. Even on the Knicks, Melo was just a scorer who was quite inefficient compared to other superstars in the league. We expected Melo to be the same Melo we saw in the Olympics but he never caught onto that. He's missing wide open shots and seems satisfied with his career. Both are selfish players but AI had more heart.

Euro is going to be upset but who cares? The guy actually thinks AI is a top 20 player and his sole evidence for that is: LeBron said AI is p4p the best player in NBA history. LMAO. What the hell does that even mean?

Lebron / Jordan and plenty of others are selfish, winning just glosses over, Lebron has never had a in prime / apex player wanting to join him anywhere besides all star / Olympic teams

Phil Jackson told Jordan just to show up for the games and don't practice, isn't Phil a HOF coach and understands the value of practice making his teammates get better? you see how incompetent you are, how in the hell would practicing with Iverson make Snow a better shooter / scorer , how about Snow put in his own damn time in offseason / season and work on weaknesses, team practice is for timing / scheming not for making a player better,just think of how dumb that is

Iverson practices and makes Lynch a better 3pt shooter, Iverson practices and helps Snow hit a elbow jumper, Iverson practiced and made Dikembe a faster athletic big, Iverson didn't practice and Snow still cant hit a elbow jumper, Iverson didn't practice and Lynch still cant hit a 3pt shot consistently, we expected Melo and Bron and whoever to be who they are after watching for 3yrs

its what I been saying about all players, Simmons will be the same, with a slightly better jumper but still the same, same with those Boston young guys, Rozier has more game than all of them but none are 'oh my god' special

upset about what? you guys are upset because you keep thinking that saying ''he was selfish / ballhog'' is justifying something, but all you are doing is repeating what closet media heads say, which holds no water because true ballers will recognize what he was working with

its like right now all the media say does Lebron need help, and then Stephan was like man I covered AI for 10yrs and nobody was screaming AI needs help and his support cast was worse than what Lebron has, Mckie avg 13-14ppg for the entire 01' run as his 2nd option

go to bed and dream up some more ******** so you can feed to the masses

Muhammad Ali said Sugar Ray Robinson was the ''greatest'' pound for pound boxer ever, so did J Louis, so where does SRR rank all time on most people list? it damn sure is not in the 80ish range

I have heard many say L Taylor / J Rice etc. might be the best football players ever regardless of position, so where would they rank? damn sure not in the 80ish range

so next time you see your boy Lebron, ask him what it means

and then go look in the mirror and ask yourself, if someone said flashbolt was pound for pound the 'best player' ever, would you think you are highly ranked or horribly ranked?

it also destroys your dumb question you asked about what AI accomplished in the nba

well he got your favorite player / athlete of all time to say he was the pound for pound greatest / best player ever, that is a hell of an accomplishment coming from a all time legend / dominant player

you are about as incompetent as it gets

Double StandDown

europagnpilgrim
05-01-2018, 12:22 PM
Robinson was called the pound for pound best without being expected to beat much larger fighters, under the belief that he as a Middleweight was still a better quality fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him.



So basically Lebron is saying if AI was actually 6'8'' like Bron said he played like then he would be so damn dominant even more because of the advantage he would have being same height and having the same attributes as he did when he played

now if you cant understand that flash inthepan bolt then you need to follow and cover other sports, maybe boxing so you can get a better appreciation for what p4p truly means.


BLEACHER REPORT ranked Sugar Ray #1 all time pound for pound
RANKER has Sugar Ray #2 all time pound for pound
ESPN has Sugar Ray Robinson as the ''greatest boxer'' / #1 all time, so I guess that includes pound for pound as well


Now if you are incompetent enough to put Sugar Ray Robinson in your 80ish range or if Jason 'little john / debbie' can pick 200 boxers over him then that is your down right natural incompetent prerogative

so that what Lebron meant when he made the quote and calling Allen The Answer Iverson pound for pound / p4p the '''greatest''' basketball player ever.

it means the same as those who speak on Sugar Ray Robinson or I have heard some say J Brown / Barry Sanders are pound for pound the 'greatest' football players, and I am sure Jason little john / Debbie can find 200 players to draft over them as well

CP3 is known as the PointGod which pretty much all have him in the top tier of best / greatest PG's of all time and that automatically puts him in the discussion for one of the best players ever, you don't get a title with god in it and not be special at your position

most say J Rice is the best / greatest WR all time ever, I say R Moss is the most dominant / best, you may not agree with my choice but go watch some game film on Moss from HS to Marshall to NFL, freak of nature, he was labeled the 'freak' for a reason, even J Rice said damn 'if I had half of his natural ability', well Moss had the natural ability and he showcased it for years, even in his pouting Raider years he was still a force, just wanted out of that black hole and went back to being Moss in NE, you could pick 200 receivers over Moss but it wouldn't mean we appeal to your authority, see how that works

Quadrillion StandDown

Jamiecballer
05-01-2018, 02:24 PM
Robinson was called the pound for pound best without being expected to beat much larger fighters, under the belief that he as a Middleweight was still a better quality fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him.



So basically Lebron is saying if AI was actually 6'8'' like Bron said he played like then he would be so damn dominant even more because of the advantage he would have being same height and having the same attributes as he did when he played

now if you cant understand that flash inthepan bolt then you need to follow and cover other sports, maybe boxing so you can get a better appreciation for what p4p truly means.


BLEACHER REPORT ranked Sugar Ray #1 all time pound for pound
RANKER has Sugar Ray #2 all time pound for pound
ESPN has Sugar Ray Robinson as the ''greatest boxer'' / #1 all time, so I guess that includes pound for pound as well


Now if you are incompetent enough to put Sugar Ray Robinson in your 80ish range or if Jason 'little john / debbie' can pick 200 boxers over him then that is your down right natural incompetent prerogative

so that what Lebron meant when he made the quote and calling Allen The Answer Iverson pound for pound / p4p the '''greatest''' basketball player ever.

it means the same as those who speak on Sugar Ray Robinson or I have heard some say J Brown / Barry Sanders are pound for pound the 'greatest' football players, and I am sure Jason little john / Debbie can find 200 players to draft over them as well

CP3 is known as the PointGod which pretty much all have him in the top tier of best / greatest PG's of all time and that automatically puts him in the discussion for one of the best players ever, you don't get a title with god in it and not be special at your position

most say J Rice is the best / greatest WR all time ever, I say R Moss is the most dominant / best, you may not agree with my choice but go watch some game film on Moss from HS to Marshall to NFL, freak of nature, he was labeled the 'freak' for a reason, even J Rice said damn 'if I had half of his natural ability', well Moss had the natural ability and he showcased it for years, even in his pouting Raider years he was still a force, just wanted out of that black hole and went back to being Moss in NE, you could pick 200 receivers over Moss but it wouldn't mean we appeal to your authority, see how that works

Quadrillion StandDownI think you've got the right idea in this post and then take a major left turn. His play at his size is extremely admirable. But so too was Mugsy's. But the difference is that boxers like Sugar Ray got to fight guys of comparable weight. So you can look at the results and make an easy case that he is one of the best of all-time. The same is not true of Iverson and basketball, unless you are just taking a cursory glance at box score type numbers.

Why do you think they always seem to include the phrase pound for pound anyways? Wouldn't it be enough to simply call him one of the greatest? What they are doing whether you realize it or not is disqualifying him as a truly great player when they say it.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

JasonJohnHorn
05-01-2018, 09:53 PM
Now you are really boxed into a stumped corner, its like you know how to utilize certain alphabet gang letters to try and justify your position but forgot the flip side to those stats are based on teammates / org. moves

like for instance you know damn good well if you throw out your stats and just put 3 HOF'ers young / apex on a team with a HOF coach they sure as hell are going to pretty much figure it out, but you feel Snow / Mckie / Lynch are I guess all star players that Iverson took shots from and then you gloss over the fact that those guys were inefficient / non volume shooters pre - Iverson, so could it be that those players are the reason he shot such a low FG according to your alphabet gang letters of PER / TS / ROSVSP / and any other ********? the easiest example would be how OKC built the team when drafting KD then Westbrook then Harden, well damn that's 3 mvp / HOF caliber players and they end up making Finals together pretty much, same with Shaq / Penny, you don't know how to build no team and you for sure don't know how to analyze bball

Iverson shot 25+ times because it was needed then he goes to play with Melo almost 11yrs later and shots 18 times per game, which last I checked is less than 25 significantly in nba terms, then he goes to a even more complicated off. structure and avg 14 shots per game in Detroit which last I checked is less than 18 per game, but all I hear from you and other incompetents on this topic is that he was a ball hog and wanted to just shoot and shoot, well how come he didn't keep this Kobe mentality and stay jacking up shots? how come he didn't hot all the shots up from Melo or Detroit system? you and 'flash inthepan bolt' etc. nba pass has been revoked, or am I using revoked in a wrong manner as well since you seem to be so into these modern definitions of words but don't know its original meaning, too bad I am of the ancient indigenous, black means pale / bleach, etymology at its apex

Jordan wanted Wolf over Pippen purely on a UNC brother hood, that has nothing to do with him feeling such and such is better, he just wanted his college / UNC mates over whoever, same with Zeke who mentioned on public record that he would take the bad boy pistons over any and all players no matter the dominant / legend status of whatever player, so Zeke / Jordan / Jason ''little ball boy'' john are all full of **** when it comes to building a team or picking their players for their teams, this has nothing to do with Jordan actually speaking on Wolf and saying he is the best player ever or best European player ever, just like Zeke is not saying Laimbeer or Dumars are Wilt or Jordan but he would take ''his'' guys over those all time legends, now if you don't see this as purely bias and showing GM ignorant skills at its highest, just like your 200 so called players you would draft over Iverson, pure ********

how is it an appeal to authority when its coaches / players eras apart speaking the same high praise for such player? Magic has heaped high praise and he played in the 80's, Daly coached against Magic, that is a players opinion on his peers, not an appeal to authority, unless you are saying the nba players opinions are rigged like the refs / games ,then you got me and we should never speak on any player ever, Bron is not a top 10 player ever because we are not going to bow down to an appeal to authority, StandDown4Eva

If Jordan thought Pippen was better than Wolf than that's on him and his dumb in the moment thinking, just like AI thought Pierce was the best player available and cried when they didn't draft him, so Iverson knew more about players / talent than Jordan, so what, good for Iverson

and for the last time are you this bball incompetent? of course a bigger man should and would shoot a higher percentage than a midget who is asked to do the same as the bigger player, its like Shaq or Capela or Jordan or Wilt shooting in the 60% and close to 70%, well because they get dunks pretty much all the time, well Wilt had the complete arsenal but you get my drift, so imagine a 6'4'' guy shooting a higher percentage than a 5'9'' guy, and the 5'9'' guy was getting Jordan rules thrown at him, KD is 7Footer

if Iverson was same height of those players with his same attributes you would be screaming about how efficient he is and I would be like **** efficiency the guy is a dominant freak of nature, same as I do now

reaching for straws once again when bringing up his field goal percentage and leaving out his support cast / 5ppg career scorers

and I am glad you mentioned those guys not having help and shooting percentage, it goes to show you Iverson had more difficult degree, he was getting Jordan rules thrown at him, when has KD ever endured that? outside of Shaq / Duncan who has really endured Jordan rules, why triple team a inefficient ball hog shot jacker? c'mon smart guy, little johnnie / Debbie

why did Iverson shoot 46% in his 12th season? was it because he had his 5ppg scorers or a young stud in Melo who was avg 34ppg before AI arrived there?

Iverson couldn't shoot? go watch his college games where he 8 threes so effortlessly you would think it was a simulation being done, that's why I know you don't know **** about the game, you are relying on percentages to dictate rather a player can shoot or not, you are incompetent as hell

do you mean Snow and those other inefficient 5ppg career guys could shoot? you mean to tell me that Iverson held them back? but they all had career high ppg with Iverson? you are something else, you went from quasi - credible to incompetent

Iverson could shoot and did it often as Stephan A Smith has publicly quoted many times over on why the Sixers would always have him shooting with the shot clock running down since they would give him the ball with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock after he would give them the ball, each of them and they would hot potato it back to him, so I would imagine half of his shots were rushed and the other half were forced since they went to him the entire game

go watch game 1 of NBA finals and you will see what I mean by a team relying on 1 player to shoot and shoot and score and score each and every possession, its like watching grown men play hot potato with a basketball, but you want to mention FG percentage, you are not talking to a beginner, those are weak and hold no water, I don't care what excuse you use, I use sources / facts

you use excuses, like Jordan and Wolf who had nothing to do with the conversation but you try to mention it to throw off what really is being said

Iverson is highly respected / praised by his elders / peers, you fanatics need to StandDown



Do you know the actual name of the Mississippi River? do you know who the Native Americans truly are? do you know who wrote the American Constitution? you know who wrote the treaty of Peace&Friendship 1787? what does it really mean? do you know that G Washington was like the 10th president, do you know Obama was like the 10th melanin president but was sold to you as the 1st ''black'' president? do you know ''black'' is not a nationality nor a race but a description of something, do you know what American definition truly means? do you know who are the true indigenous people of the Americas? you do know that United States is of America but America is not of the United States? do you know who dominions / empire you are walking on right now in the Americas? do you know who the true slaves / slavs / albions are? do you know who the 'declaration of independence' was written for? are you a U.S. Citizen, are you a 14th / 15th amendment slav?


did you know the the true meaning of the word ''black'' means ''pale / to bleach''? do you know what 'Free White Persons' mean? it will be shocking to most on here who claim to be a albion on here.

the battle of little big horn was a battle between my indigenous bloodline vs. the colonizers / slavs, all of it was from the Civil to American War, so you can miss me with the pity party, I know true - story, you know his - story

and if American military was warring against the 'indigenous Americans' who was this ''American military' masquerading as? since it was basically attacking itself according to your words, the American landmass was always under the control of the indigenous and it wasn't done by 'doctrine of discovery' by colonizers / thieves, its a reason why no one really owns land, and you would understand that if you knew we sold land to albions for beads and laughed because we knew no one can truly own land, but these colonizers sware they are doing something with all these so called real estate companies

until you realize you are a walking 'real estate', literally

since your birth when they certified you, commerce

You are one of those guys who thinks he's 'woke', aren't you?

You say looking at somebody's FG% is 'grapsing at straws'? LMAO. No... it's looking at facts.

Saying taller players are more efficient and using that as an excuse for Iverson's low FG%? Well... sorry to break this to you, but Stockton was the same height, and he killed it with regard to efficiency. Kevin Johnsn was the same height and had a better FG%. Tons of 6-foot players have played in this league with better FG% than Iverson. In fact, Muggy Bogues had higher FG% and he was 5 foot 3.

And your cultural reference to Little Bighorn as an insult is still rude as fawk, whatever your twisted version of history is, so you need to STFU about that and take ownership over your ignorance instead of trying to dance around it with nonsense.

I'll leave you with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

YAALREADYKNO
05-01-2018, 10:09 PM
LEAning towards A.I. Cause melo already said he ain’t coming off the bench next year. If he really follows through with that then he’ll end up like Iverson because I thought Iverson could’ve helped Memphis’s bench but his ego wouldn’t allow him to accept that role. Seeing the same exact thing with melo atm

Chronz
05-02-2018, 07:26 AM
Lol. Why you always gotta bring your truther angles here my brother. Keep it ball related

Chronz
05-02-2018, 07:27 AM
LEAning towards A.I. Cause melo already said he ain’t coming off the bench next year. If he really follows through with that then he’ll end up like Iverson because I thought Iverson could’ve helped Memphis’s bench but his ego wouldn’t come allow him to accept that role. Seeing the same exact thing with melo atm
Yeah I said they were a **** team but looking itup, they were1 game under .500. Ai could've helped them

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 08:56 AM
Lol. Why you always gotta bring your truther angles here my brother. Keep it ball related


If you are replying to me then I did it because he went in about what he thought little big horn was all about and speaking on indigenous so I had to give him another in class session

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 08:58 AM
I think you've got the right idea in this post and then take a major left turn. His play at his size is extremely admirable. But so too was Mugsy's. But the difference is that boxers like Sugar Ray got to fight guys of comparable weight. So you can look at the results and make an easy case that he is one of the best of all-time. The same is not true of Iverson and basketball, unless you are just taking a cursory glance at box score type numbers.

Why do you think they always seem to include the phrase pound for pound anyways? Wouldn't it be enough to simply call him one of the greatest? What they are doing whether you realize it or not is disqualifying him as a truly great player when they say it.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

It is basically calling the player that, its a reason why those who claim that SugarRay is pound for pound best / greatest have him in their top 3 at worst, most have him either 1 or 2nd, so they are basically saying that

same with Bron saying what he said about Iverson, saying if AI was 6'8'' literally damn we would be all bowing down

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 09:18 AM
You are one of those guys who thinks he's 'woke', aren't you?

You say looking at somebody's FG% is 'grapsing at straws'? LMAO. No... it's looking at facts.

Saying taller players are more efficient and using that as an excuse for Iverson's low FG%? Well... sorry to break this to you, but Stockton was the same height, and he killed it with regard to efficiency. Kevin Johnsn was the same height and had a better FG%. Tons of 6-foot players have played in this league with better FG% than Iverson. In fact, Muggy Bogues had higher FG% and he was 5 foot 3.

And your cultural reference to Little Bighorn as an insult is still rude as fawk, whatever your twisted version of history is, so you need to STFU about that and take ownership over your ignorance instead of trying to dance around it with nonsense.

I'll leave you with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

1. You think I am awoke, awoken from what? who put me to sleep? who taught me both sides of the coin? That flip side of something else, once you get it, its yours forever, miss me with that awoke talk, its called facts of true - story

2. I set you up big time for this one, first off since FG percentage is looking at facts in your words, now go look up Hill / Lynch / Mckie / Snow / McCullough / J Jones / M Jackson / M Harpring / K Thomas and what is their FG / PER / TS pre Iverson and then base it off what they did with Iverson and let me know did they get paid prior to joining or after playing with Iverson, remember now Mckie / Snow are 6-7ppg career scorers so if they shot anything remotely close to 50% or more then they were vastly under used by AI / coaching staff, now watch how you don't reply back with the FG % of those players that you use as facts, AI should have shot 20% with that rag tag crew, him making 4 / 10 is a miracle that you keep glossing over because of your false emotions about The Answer

3. I knew you were going to reply with Stockton(I thought Nash as well) and his overrated FG % and him being small, well guess what smart guy, Stockton career high is 12 shots per game, if you shoot 10-12 times per game no pressure(see Finals results from not shooting enough for his team) at all to hit 5 - 6 of those shots that are carefully chosen, it wasn't Stockton or bust on offense, Iverson had to shoot over 20+ shots per game with his support cast, Stockton should have helped Malone more scoring wise against those Bulls in the Finals, Iverson would have put immense pressure on those guards, just as he did when he played Jordan / Bulls outside of a game or 2, he destroyed Jordan / Bulls like a dominant player is supposed to

had Stockton been forced to shoot 20+ times a game his FG percentage would be trending in the lower 40's, not upper like his 10 shots per game reflect, I mean 9 attempts per game for his entire career, how hard is it to make 4 - 5 field goals out of 9 attempts when you are picking and choosing when to shoot with no pressure because all you do is over pass the ball to Malone / shooters? assist hunting at its finest, and Stockton use to carry the hell out of the ball, Iverson learned that from him as well, KJ is better than Stockton and could carry a load but not like AI, switch KJ for Iverson and they beat Jordan 93' Finals with MVP Chuck, KJ is not on Iverson level but was a bad bad man like Strickland and others who get lost in the PG talk

KJ shot 12-13 shots per game for his career, he didn't have the workload / responsibility either so his percentage should be like it is, now add 10 - 12 more shots of load and his percentage does South, no little guy can be compared to Iverson because they didn't have the responsibility nor did they play like they were 6'8'', Stockton played according to his height, KJ could play above the rim but he couldn't solo carry a team like Iverson, once again you don't factor into work load / usage, it was AI or bust unless you want to count Snow then so be it, it was KJ and Barkley, it was Stockton / Malone, who has the weakest scoring partner, AI or KJ or Stockton?

StandDown

and no my cultural reference to LBH is the truth and nothing but the truth and that's why you mentioned just only that and not the other stuff but its all truth as well

truth is truth, his - story is yours, not mine

fawk, StandDown

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 09:26 AM
Iverson was pushing 33yrs of age 12th season and shot 46% because he finally had a legit stud next to him, now imagine had Iverson had a stud with him for first 8-10yrs, he would easily have shot in the 46 - 55% FG range, coming in he went 48% at G'Town

but give him inefficient support and some how he puts up in efficient FG numbers but his entire support help gets a pass because I guess they avg just enough ppg to get a pass, 6 - 7 ppg scorers get no blame, only Iverson

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 09:37 AM
Eric Snow pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 1.5ppg / 1998 season on 43% FG and 000. 3pt FG%

Aaron Mckie pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 4.5 ppg / 1998 season on a jaw dropping 41% FG up from 36% season before with a blistering 17% from 3pt range


this **** is not a typo / error

that was Iverson Robin / sidekick / go to scorers for 7yrs out of his 10 1/2 years there, the other 2 1/2 were wasted with a baby Korver / Iggy combo and to help Jason little john / flash inthepan bolt I will give you Webber and whatever was left of him after 2 micro knee surgeries which had him out of basketball a year or two later after playing with AI briefly, imagine that Iverson biggest name player before Melo was 2X micro surgery former all star Webber, not the 27 / 12 version that Bibby / Kings had, pre injuries or the Bullets / Michigan version, but AI got the Detroit version of Webber, you guys on here speaking down on Iverson don't know jack **** about basketball, I am convinced you guys on here have literally never even picked up a ball just to dribble in your front yard, ever

can you name a worse Robin / sidekick duo for a superstar ever? I cant think of any right now

StandDown

Jamiecballer
05-02-2018, 09:54 AM
It is basically calling the player that, its a reason why those who claim that SugarRay is pound for pound best / greatest have him in their top 3 at worst, most have him either 1 or 2nd, so they are basically saying that

same with Bron saying what he said about Iverson, saying if AI was 6'8'' literally damn we would be all bowing downWell I've never heard anyone call LeBron or MJ the greatest pound for pound although they would be almost universally considered so. I mean both are like 1.5 times the weight and 10 times better so...

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 10:04 AM
George Lynch - 6.6ppg career 44%FG
T. McCulloch - 6ppg career
T Hill - pre Sixers trade avg. 8.6ppg / 12ppg after trade
M Jackson - pre Sixers trade avg 5.5ppg / high of 12ppg with Iverson, most since rookie season
J Salmons - 9ppg career / 7.5ppg career high with Sixers

and just to think as of right now Lebron needs help, well Iverson needed help / emergency assistance / national guard in basketball terms

StandDown

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 10:10 AM
Well I've never heard anyone call LeBron or MJ the greatest pound for pound although they would be almost universally considered so. I mean both are like 1.5 times the weight and 10 times better so...

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk


Because since its inception the game of basketball has always been in terms of a ''big man'' game, once again its the reason why Bron said Iverson plays like he is 6'8'', which Bron is listed at for his game height, AI was barely 5'10'' so he wouldn't qualify as a big guy, so Bron said pound for pound he was the greatest, meaning if AI was literally 6'8'' he would something out of this world even more, since he was 'god' to Bron growing up, his words not mine, Jordan / Bron would be more considered big / tall guys, 6'4'' and up, i have heard some say DWade is pound for pound the best ever at park / barbershop talk

be mad at Bron for speaking his truth

its thrown around, like i have had a debate with someone claiming that A Brown is the pound for pound best receiver all time, not player but its in the same ilk of thinking, i have heard some say J Brown / B Sanders are the best football players pound for pound

some say R Henderson is pound for pound best player ever, or Bonds in his early Pirates days

outside of being taller and weighing more what could Jordan and Lebron do on the court that AI couldn't? be serious with yourself and if you mention winning titles you are disqualified because outside of a HOF head coach AI has never had close the sidekicks that Jordan / Bron had

its the exact reason why HOF coach Daly said the difference between Jordan and Iverson is Jordan had Pippen and Iverson had Mckie or Snow(burger king, choose one, have it your way)

that Daly quote is floating around on here some where, i posted it not too long ago in a thread, not sure if its this one

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 10:21 AM
I think you've got the right idea in this post and then take a major left turn. His play at his size is extremely admirable. But so too was Mugsy's. But the difference is that boxers like Sugar Ray got to fight guys of comparable weight. So you can look at the results and make an easy case that he is one of the best of all-time. The same is not true of Iverson and basketball, unless you are just taking a cursory glance at box score type numbers.

Why do you think they always seem to include the phrase pound for pound anyways? Wouldn't it be enough to simply call him one of the greatest? What they are doing whether you realize it or not is disqualifying him as a truly great player when they say it.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Mugsy didn't play like he was 6'8'', he played like he was 5'10'' which is amazing but give apex Iverson a apex LJ / Mourning and boy its some trouble, which Hornets had a buzz but AI would have taken them to promised land

AI went up against bigger guys for most of career, he was guarded by 2's since they thought the length would bother him, smaller guys like Ford / Best / Lue / Boykins / Nate would get lit up because those are the only players he could shoot over to his advantage, the other defenders had advantage because of length, but AI had peerless speed / quickness which is why it didn't matter if small or taller guy defended him, they were at his mercy for most part

when you look at box score numbers do you look at the total team or do you just look at one guy? if you do that then you can easily make a case as why he is one of the best / most dominant

Lebron said pound for pound that's why i included the phrase, its on public record, that's the thing, Bron feels Jordan is his number 1 favorite but he is letting you and all the other naysayers that Iverson is amongst the place of the giants, its only giants at the table along with Zeke / Tiny / CP3

He could have said Iverson is the greatest, which would still have you bugged the **** out so why would it matter, just as Shaq could have said Iverson is in my top 25, but Shaq said Iverson is in his top 5, Daly could have said Iverson is one of the best 50 players ever but he said Iverson is top 10 all time

i don't know why people say what they choose to say, i just call it liberty / unalienable free will

JasonJohnHorn
05-02-2018, 01:17 PM
1. You think I am awoke, awoken from what? who put me to sleep? who taught me both sides of the coin? That flip side of something else, once you get it, its yours forever, miss me with that awoke talk, its called facts of true - story

2. I set you up big time for this one, first off since FG percentage is looking at facts in your words, now go look up Hill / Lynch / Mckie / Snow / McCullough / J Jones / M Jackson / M Harpring / K Thomas and what is their FG / PER / TS pre Iverson and then base it off what they did with Iverson and let me know did they get paid prior to joining or after playing with Iverson, remember now Mckie / Snow are 6-7ppg career scorers so if they shot anything remotely close to 50% or more then they were vastly under used by AI / coaching staff, now watch how you don't reply back with the FG % of those players that you use as facts, AI should have shot 20% with that rag tag crew, him making 4 / 10 is a miracle that you keep glossing over because of your false emotions about The Answer

3. I knew you were going to reply with Stockton(I thought Nash as well) and his overrated FG % and him being small, well guess what smart guy, Stockton career high is 12 shots per game, if you shoot 10-12 times per game no pressure(see Finals results from not shooting enough for his team) at all to hit 5 - 6 of those shots that are carefully chosen, it wasn't Stockton or bust on offense, Iverson had to shoot over 20+ shots per game with his support cast, Stockton should have helped Malone more scoring wise against those Bulls in the Finals, Iverson would have put immense pressure on those guards, just as he did when he played Jordan / Bulls outside of a game or 2, he destroyed Jordan / Bulls like a dominant player is supposed to

had Stockton been forced to shoot 20+ times a game his FG percentage would be trending in the lower 40's, not upper like his 10 shots per game reflect, I mean 9 attempts per game for his entire career, how hard is it to make 4 - 5 field goals out of 9 attempts when you are picking and choosing when to shoot with no pressure because all you do is over pass the ball to Malone / shooters? assist hunting at its finest, and Stockton use to carry the hell out of the ball, Iverson learned that from him as well, KJ is better than Stockton and could carry a load but not like AI, switch KJ for Iverson and they beat Jordan 93' Finals with MVP Chuck, KJ is not on Iverson level but was a bad bad man like Strickland and others who get lost in the PG talk

KJ shot 12-13 shots per game for his career, he didn't have the workload / responsibility either so his percentage should be like it is, now add 10 - 12 more shots of load and his percentage does South, no little guy can be compared to Iverson because they didn't have the responsibility nor did they play like they were 6'8'', Stockton played according to his height, KJ could play above the rim but he couldn't solo carry a team like Iverson, once again you don't factor into work load / usage, it was AI or bust unless you want to count Snow then so be it, it was KJ and Barkley, it was Stockton / Malone, who has the weakest scoring partner, AI or KJ or Stockton?

StandDown

and no my cultural reference to LBH is the truth and nothing but the truth and that's why you mentioned just only that and not the other stuff but its all truth as well

truth is truth, his - story is yours, not mine

fawk, StandDown

You sound like Kyrie trying to explain how the Earth is flat.

Couple of problems here.


1. You don't use sound logical arguments. You use logical fallacies. A lot. Like moving the goal post. All you do is come up with excuses for Iverson's inabiltiy to shoot the ball. You blame his height: I point to guys who were as tall or shorter and who had higher FG% and you say "Oh.. well they didn't shoot as much." (FYI: they didn't shoot as much becaue they weren't ball hogs). I point to guys who didn't have as much help, and you say "Oh... they were taller." Whatever the reason, he couldn't shoot. Period. He was great for his size. But he was quantifiably less efficient than scores of other players. (FYI: a 'score' in this context means 20, and 'scores' is multiples of 20).
2. You don't actually seemed to read (and I'm being generous here, because the truth of the matter may be that you don't understand) what other people write.
3. You go on long, incherent ramblings. And given how long my ramblings sometimes are, that's saying something coming from me.


I don't usually rely on personal insults because, to be frank, I believe in using trong logical arguments, and an ad hominem is a logically fallacy. But I feel it is safe to say that, based on what you've written here, and in the past, you are either lazy, an idiot, a troll, or delusinal. Any one of those is quantifiable, and though I can't say for certainy which one is the truth, which ever of the multiple choices happens to be the case, mean I am wasthing my time talking to you.

Iverson was short. Iverson didn't have help. Whatever. He couldn't shoot. He had great handles, was great at beating people off the dribble, but he was a notoriously poor shooter, and he was a notoriously poor defender. You can point to hi limited offensive help, but on the defensive end (which mind you is where half the game is played) Iverson was a liabiltiy and was constantly being saved by and creating probelsm for defensive elites like Theo and Mutumbo, and yes, Hill. Those guys, alng with McKie and Snow were bailing Iversn out on the other end all the time, and if it wasn't for their efforts on defense, Iversn would have never been to the NBA finals.

But go ahead and cite raw stats/career averages without cotnext while dismissing something as obvious a measure of shooting a FG%/3pt%/2pt%TS% as grapsing at straws.

GiantsSwaGG
05-02-2018, 02:34 PM
Knicks DESTROYED the Thunder in the Melo trade!

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 09:50 PM
You sound like Kyrie trying to explain how the Earth is flat.

Couple of problems here.


1. You don't use sound logical arguments. You use logical fallacies. A lot. Like moving the goal post. All you do is come up with excuses for Iverson's inabiltiy to shoot the ball. You blame his height: I point to guys who were as tall or shorter and who had higher FG% and you say "Oh.. well they didn't shoot as much." (FYI: they didn't shoot as much becaue they weren't ball hogs). I point to guys who didn't have as much help, and you say "Oh... they were taller." Whatever the reason, he couldn't shoot. Period. He was great for his size. But he was quantifiably less efficient than scores of other players. (FYI: a 'score' in this context means 20, and 'scores' is multiples of 20).
2. You don't actually seemed to read (and I'm being generous here, because the truth of the matter may be that you don't understand) what other people write.
3. You go on long, incherent ramblings. And given how long my ramblings sometimes are, that's saying something coming from me.


I don't usually rely on personal insults because, to be frank, I believe in using trong logical arguments, and an ad hominem is a logically fallacy. But I feel it is safe to say that, based on what you've written here, and in the past, you are either lazy, an idiot, a troll, or delusinal. Any one of those is quantifiable, and though I can't say for certainy which one is the truth, which ever of the multiple choices happens to be the case, mean I am wasthing my time talking to you.

Iverson was short. Iverson didn't have help. Whatever. He couldn't shoot. He had great handles, was great at beating people off the dribble, but he was a notoriously poor shooter, and he was a notoriously poor defender. You can point to hi limited offensive help, but on the defensive end (which mind you is where half the game is played) Iverson was a liabiltiy and was constantly being saved by and creating probelsm for defensive elites like Theo and Mutumbo, and yes, Hill. Those guys, alng with McKie and Snow were bailing Iversn out on the other end all the time, and if it wasn't for their efforts on defense, Iversn would have never been to the NBA finals.

But go ahead and cite raw stats/career averages without cotnext while dismissing something as obvious a measure of shooting a FG%/3pt%/2pt%TS% as grapsing at straws.

You sound like NASA trying to show people a fake round earth, you sound like NASA acting like they make trips to the moon, see how that works? you say yin and I say yang, guess we balance out truth vs your belief views

first thing a troll does is to detract and say ''well you sound like Irving with the flat earth'', knowing the we live / reside in the ''cosmic egg' on a flat plane, yin and yang again

I bet if you go to the gym or outside or the mall or the any place you choose to walk or drive I guarantee you the ground / platform you walk on will be solid flat, not round / circled, the universe is a womb, like when a women is pregnant and her belly forms the cosmic egg shape with her planted on solid flat ground

now back to the topic at hand

1. I didn't blame his height for bad shooting I was blaming his height for the degree of difficulty / low FG percentage and the load as a little guy he had to endure, like it he was Bron / Jordan / Wilt height, so him getting 20-30 shots wouldn't be the same as those bigger guys who can post up on the block for 20 of those attempts if they choose, Iverson was on the perimeter and playing with 6ppg career scorers, how is that not using basic common bball sense? are you suggesting Iverson played with 2 - 3 other all star players and he shot this much and this horrible? get for real

2. I don't seem to read yet you don't seem to reply back to nothing I factually put out, you mention Stockton and his 9 fg attempts per game to justify why a little guy can shoot 50% but yet fail to realize Iverson was forced to shoot 25+ shots which had defenses keyed only to stop him, Stockton was too busy assists hunting to figure out his team needed him to attack / score more on the biggest stage back to back years and he couldn't do it because he isn't built like Iverson was

3. I go on long factual writings over explaining something so basic as if I am talking to a 3rd grader about basketball, you think FG % / efficiency ranks players, which is so far from the truth

4. Based on your replies you are either a sports troll agent, or just start watching ball in 2003 when Bron got drafted, and I think you are the one who played ball and was a screen - setter so of course you would think PER / TS and whatever else alphabet letters you can throw together are supreme over what a player can actually do and what surroundings he had to work with, you are something funny

5. So was Iverson tall? why did Lebron say he play like he was 6'8'' if he wasn't this dominant little guy? who did Bron have this little guy poster on his wall growing up? because of his game or headband? So Iverson had legit all star help his entire 10 yr career right? I like how you gloss over the fact that Mckie / Snow helped so you just throw out a weak quote 'Iverson didn't have help'', why don't you just man / or woman the hell up and say you know what Mckie / Snow sucks and Iverson had to shoot that many times

a poor shooter based on what? shooting with 5 seconds on the shot clock is a poor or good shot according to nba rules? have you ever watched Iverson play? saying he cant shoot is about the dumbest thing any person who has watched this guy play can say, ever

did he shoot as good naturally as Dell / Steph or C Jackson? no but his mid range game was sick and whenever he did get a good look at 3 it was money, his attack game / motor was off the charts, but saying he cant shoot is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard, he came into the league with a weakness of being short in height, lacked nothing else so you can miss me with that tired ********

when you say a player cant shoot I think of players like Stuckey / Murray from the Spurs and others of that ilk, based on how you view shooting you would say K Walker cant shoot which is absolutely not true, Iverson is way way more Kemba than Murray / Stuckey, facts

so since ball is played on both sides who is more responsible for helping who? did Mckie and Snow 6ppg career avg help the offense side more where it was Iverson or bust or did Iverson help the defense more with his 3 in a row steals title? you just said its played on both sides so Mckie and Snow should have taken around 15 shots per game to make up for Iverson having to shoot 30x

Iverson was a defense liability against the taller players / two guards he had to cover, against the PG's he wasn't a liability, you keep forgetting that a 5'9'' player was shifted to SG, which no little man could ever do, its once again why Lebron James said Iverson The Answer plays like he was 6'8''

dumbest **** ever once again, you said Snow / Mckie bailed Iverson out on defense but once again don't flip the coin over

disclaimer: Go watch game 1 of 2001 nba finals and don't ever speak on Iverson ever again once you see how incompetent those guys were on offense, Iverson went through that game on like a 14 minute stretch where he didn't score, now go count how many points they scored total as a team during that stretch

Iverson didn't bail those guys out on offense, he was the offense

none of those so called all world perimeter defenders made 1st or 2nd or 3rd all nba defense team if my memory serves me correct, Mutombo made it and at 36yrs of age was on his last leg, running on fumes and was done for good when the nba implemented the 3 sec. def. rule in 2002 / 2003

the team was put together by a HOF strict defensive minded coach(L Brown) who was acting as GM as well seeing he built the team with his imprint all over it, he just tolerated Iverson because of what he publicly states about Iverson:

“I think the six years I was with him, there wasn’t one night he didn’t do something that I’d never seen done before. He was probably the most athletic player I’ve been around and as competitive as anybody I’ve been around.” - Larry Brown

“When you look at him, 160 pounds at the most, 5-10, 5-11, what he accomplished, it’s just amazing to me. I think Isiah (Thomas) and Tiny Archibald were two of the greatest little players I ever saw," Brown said. "I never thought I’d ever see another one like that. But I think Allen’s in that category and that’s a pretty big honor for me to say that.” - Larry Brown

The 2000-01 Sixers, coached by Brown, fought through the Eastern Conference to take on the Lakers in the NBA Finals. Iverson averaged 31.1 points, 4.6 assists, 3.8 rebounds and 2.5 steals in 42.0 minutes per game that season. Although they weren’t the flashiest team on paper, Iverson propelled the Sixers to contend for the championship, a series Brown still looks back on with thoughts of hustle and promise.

“A lot of people looked at the personnel we surrounded Allen with and didn’t get real excited about it," Brown said. "But I think the way we built our team, I thought he helped us accomplish a great deal and gave us a chance to win every night.

“I honestly believe if we were healthy with the (2001) team, I think we would have beat the Lakers, to be honest. A lot of people don’t realize being that guys like Jumaine Jones and Todd MacCulloch, Rodney Buford and Raja Bell, who we got out of the YMCA, Kevin Ollie, we had a lot of guys that were forced to play because we were so banged up.

“Allen gave us the chance to win. We were in every game.” - Larry Brown

well post those alphabet letter gangs and attach them to the players I mentioned who played with Iverson, make sure you post the pre advanced stats of those players, they suck so it wont make a difference if you use raw stats or advanced, that's where you lose because you think advanced stats tell what a player is about, no the game film does and will always reign supreme, the eye test / game film

now go watch some game film of Mckie and Snow and then come back and tell me how good they are, why the hell would I need to go look at some advanced numbers to know after watching with my own eyes?

You are not delusional at all, you are fully and absolute incompetent to speak on The Answer

StandDown

Chronz
05-02-2018, 10:26 PM
Hand down man down

europagnpilgrim
05-02-2018, 10:42 PM
Hand down man down

“I honestly believe if we were healthy with the (2001) team, I think we would have beat the Lakers, to be honest. A lot of people don’t realize being that guys like Jumaine Jones and Todd MacCulloch, Rodney Buford and Raja Bell, who we got out of the YMCA, Kevin Ollie, we had a lot of guys that were forced to play because we were so banged up.

“Allen gave us the chance to win. We were in every game.” - Larry Brown


That moment you realize a actual nba superstar had a YMCA player on his team in the Finals

Iverson is your favorite player favorite player, facts

Allen Iverson was more than basketball. He was more than a culture, more than a city, a run to the Finals and a Gladiator-like Most Valuable Player season. He defined an entire generation.

“He meant everything to me,” Paul said. “I grew up in North Carolina and I loved Michael Jordan to death, but Allen Iverson had a bigger influence on the game of basketball than anybody. I don’t even think it is close.”

“A lot of kids and even guys in the NBA will tell you the sleeves the guys wear on their arms, that’s Allen Iverson,” Paul said. “Some guys wear it as a pad, and stuff like that, but that’s Allen Iverson. When I was a kid, I wanted braids because of Allen Iverson. I wear number three, the way that I play, because of Allen Iverson.”

HandsUp

mavwar53
05-02-2018, 11:13 PM
He’s no more special than Dirk Nowitzki right now and I’d rather have Dirk, at least he doesn’t think he’s something special. Maybe on a Mo Speights level, but again he doesn’t demand the ball. He’s one of the more overrated players of all time, contributes nothing but one on one scoring that kills all team movement.

JasonJohnHorn
05-03-2018, 12:31 AM
You sound like NASA trying to show people a fake round earth, you sound like NASA acting like they make trips to the moon, see how that works? you say yin and I say yang, guess we balance out truth vs your belief views

first thing a troll does is to detract and say ''well you sound like Irving with the flat earth'', knowing the we live / reside in the ''cosmic egg' on a flat plane, yin and yang again

I bet if you go to the gym or outside or the mall or the any place you choose to walk or drive I guarantee you the ground / platform you walk on will be solid flat, not round / circled, the universe is a womb, like when a women is pregnant and her belly forms the cosmic egg shape with her planted on solid flat ground

now back to the topic at hand

See... this talk.... all mental. There is no sense being made here. This is horse $#!t spewing out of you.


1. I didn't blame his height for bad shooting I was blaming his height for the degree of difficulty / low FG percentage

Semantics. He was a bad shooter. Who has ever argued that Iverson was a good shooter? If you think he was, you never watched him play.


and the load as a little guy he had to endure, like it he was Bron / Jordan / Wilt height, so him getting 20-30 shots wouldn't be the same as those bigger guys who can post up on the block for 20 of those attempts if they choose, Iverson was on the perimeter and playing with 6ppg career scorers, how is that not using basic common bball sense? are you suggesting Iverson played with 2 - 3 other all star players and he shot this much and this horrible? get for real

So you criticize me for pointing to Iverson's woeful FG%, but then you cite raw stats in career averages? Ok.

Seems like you got two standards: one for you, and one for me. You might want to observe that several players on that title contenting team had higher FG% than him, but Iverson took more shots than them. So... why not share the ball?


2. I don't seem to read yet you don't seem to reply back to nothing I factually put out, you mention Stockton and his 9 fg attempts per game to justify why a little guy can shoot 50% but yet fail to realize Iverson was forced to shoot 25+ shots which had defenses keyed only to stop him, Stockton was too busy assists hunting to figure out his team needed him to attack / score more on the biggest stage back to back years and he couldn't do it because he isn't built like Iverson was

But this is just you moving the goal post. You point to his height for his bad shooting (yes, bad shooting, but you can call it low FG%) so when I point out guys who were the same height or shorter, who shot higher, you change your standard: oh... they took less shots.

Yeah... well guys like Richmond and Jordan were on teams with little help and still shot better while taking a high volume of shot.

You're like "Oh... their taller." Then you go in a circle.

Iverson was inefficient. Period. Come up with whatever excuses you want, but t doesn't change the facts. You can pretend like "Oh... if he was taller.. oh... if he took fewer shots."

But he had overt limits to his game and you simply excuse them.



Stockton was smart. Iverson wasn't. Stockton took smart shots; Iverson tried to look like a hero.


3. I go on long factual writings over explaining something so basic as if I am talking to a 3rd grader about basketball, you think FG % / efficiency ranks players, which is so far from the truth[/QOUTE]

I didn't say FG% = efficiency. That's a strawman argument on your part. I simply pointed out FG% is an indication as to whether or not he is a good shooter.

You argue, that despite the evidence, depsite the fact that he shot unver 45% inside the arc, and barely over 31% from the arc, that he was somehow a good shooter?

Ok.


4. Based on your replies you are either a sports troll agent, or just start watching ball in 2003 when Bron got drafted, and I think you are the one who played ball and was a screen - setter so of course you would think PER / TS and whatever else alphabet letters you can throw together are supreme over what a player can actually do and what surroundings he had to work with, you are something funny

???/


5. So was Iverson tall? why did Lebron say he play like he was 6'8'' if he wasn't this dominant little guy? who did Bron have this little guy poster on his wall growing up? because of his game or headband? So Iverson had legit all star help his entire 10 yr career right? I like how you gloss over the fact that Mckie / Snow helped so you just throw out a weak quote 'Iverson didn't have help'', why don't you just man / or woman the hell up and say you know what Mckie / Snow sucks and Iverson had to shoot that many times

First.. who gives a $#!T what LeBron said. This is your 'appeal to authority'... again. Which we have already demonstrated with the Jordan Joe Wolf> Pipper point is useless because 'great players' can be wrong. But whatever LBJ said... it doesn't matter.

Also... the year they went to the finals, McKie had a higher FG%, so yeah... though he wasn't a strong 3pt shooter, Iverson could have kicked a few more shot his way and McKie likely would have hit more than Iverson. But I'm not making an argument that Iverson had help; I'm arguing he was inefficient and less efficient than other guys who also had no help, but you just keep on making excuses for him.




a poor shooter based on what? shooting with 5 seconds on the shot clock is a poor or good shot according to nba rules? have you ever watched Iverson play? saying he cant shoot is about the dumbest thing any person who has watched this guy play can say, ever

Lots of players take this same load on their shoulders and are far more efficient than Iverson. But this is hyperbole on your part. This isn't representative of all his shots, and often times when it was, it was becaue he wasted so much time with his iso plays.


did he shoot as good naturally as Dell / Steph or C Jackson? no but his mid range game was sick and whenever he did get a good look at 3 it was money, his attack game / motor was off the charts, but saying he cant shoot is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard, he came into the league with a weakness of being short in height, lacked nothing else so you can miss me with that tired ********

He was money? From down town? lol

You want to point to his teammates career averages? Look at Iverson's career 3pt%: .313. That's not 'money'. Oh... but "If he wa open..." Too bad he couldn't get open then. guess the reality is that he was below average among players who took 3 or more 3's per game. But hey... who cares about facts when you have your 'truth'. Right? In your imaginary world, Iverson just needed to be 4 inches taller and get wide open shots.




when you say a player cant shoot I think of players like Stuckey / Murray from the Spurs and others of that ilk, based on how you view shooting you would say K Walker cant shoot which is absolutely not true, Iverson is way way more Kemba than Murray / Stuckey, facts

Sorry... my bad for going with facts and reality instead of your imagnary 'what ifs'.

[QOUTE]so since ball is played on both sides who is more responsible for helping who? did Mckie and Snow 6ppg career avg help the offense side more where it was Iverson or bust or did Iverson help the defense more with his 3 in a row steals title? you just said its played on both sides so Mckie and Snow should have taken around 15 shots per game to make up for Iverson having to shoot 30x

Iverson was a defense liability against the taller players / two guards he had to cover, against the PG's he wasn't a liability, you keep forgetting that a 5'9'' player was shifted to SG, which no little man could ever do, its once again why Lebron James said Iverson The Answer plays like he was 6'8''

He was a liabiltiy. Period. Who gives a $#!t what LeBron says. Every time you try to 'prove' something by saying "But Lebron says..." Just remember: Jordon though Joe Wolf was better than Pippen.

Players aren't always right. Get over it and use evidence.




disclaimer: Go watch game 1 of 2001 nba finals and don't ever speak on Iverson ever again once you see how incompetent those guys were on offense, Iverson went through that game on like a 14 minute stretch where he didn't score, now go count how many points they scored total as a team during that stretch

What about Hilary? What about the Democrats? What about your misdirection? The point is that Iverson was a liabiliy on defense. You want to bring up other people's offense?

Get over yourself. That is moronic to bring up somebody else's offensive game when we are discussing Iverson's defense.





none of those so called all world perimeter defenders made 1st or 2nd or 3rd all nba defense team if my memory serves me correct, Mutombo made it and at 36yrs of age was on his last leg, running on fumes and was done for good when the nba implemented the 3 sec. def. rule in 2002 / 2003

Mutumbo posted 12.4 boards and 2.5 blocks per game that year. What does his age have to do with anything? And Mutumbo won DPOY when they went to the finals.

And since when does somebody have to make the all defensive team to be a steller defender? All kinds of great defeners get snubbed for that. Are you saying McKie wasn't a good defender? That Tyronne Hill wasn't an stellar defender? And your agrument? They didn't make All-NBA defensive teams? That's not even based on stats or performance, just some vote.

At least I base my interpretation on facts (read shooting percentages). You just go based on somebody age without address his actual level of play, and whether some beat writers from bigger markets watch enough games to know to vote for a quality role player who excels on D.

But whatever.


the team was put together by a HOF strict defensive minded coach(L Brown) who was acting as GM as well seeing he built the team with his imprint all over it, he just tolerated Iverson because of what he publicly states about Iverson

He also tried trading Iverson. All those compliments you listed, it's just "He's really good for such a short guy".


And Brown won a title easily with Billups and a short version of Mutumbo in Ben Wallace, but he couldn't pull it off with Iverson and Mutumbo.... you know... like how Billups took over Iverson's spot on the Nuggets and got them to the conference finals when Iverson couldn't get them past the first round.



well post those alphabet letter gangs and attach them to the players I mentioned who played with Iverson, make sure you post the pre advanced stats of those players, they suck so it wont make a difference if you use raw stats or advanced, that's where you lose because you think advanced stats tell what a player is about, no the game film does and will always reign supreme, the eye test / game film

You eye test = horse $#!t.

Stats equal facts.

I wouldn't rely entirely on one, but at the end of the day, the ball don't lie. And you know what the ball says? Iverson missed way more shots than he hit.




now go watch some game film of Mckie and Snow and then come back and tell me how good they are, why the hell would I need to go look at some advanced numbers to know after watching with my own eyes?

What about Hilary?

Don't p!ss on other guys. If you want to compare Iverson to McKie and Snow, then you are setting a low bar. Ok... he's better than them... but there are scores of guys I'd pick to build a team around over Iverson without hesitation.




You are not delusional at all, you are fully and absolute incompetent to speak on The Answer

StandDown


So... you're full of $#!t. You got not stats... just "Larry Brown says this" and "LBJ says this" and "My eyes say this" and "Mckie and Snow sucks" and "but Iverson was short and took a lot of shots."

Excuses. Excues. Excuses.

You have no interest is listening to other people. You say a short dude with good handles, and he impressed you, understandably, but you are biased by that and refuse to look at his output.

Ball don't lie. .313 from the arc. .448 inside the arc. Neither is note worthy. There's a reason he never won it, and why it was only in a weak east that he was able to get to the finals.

Make all the excuses you want. Bottom line is he was inefficient and was a poor shooter by NBA standards.

But your eyes tell you the earth is flat, and that Iverson wa a good shooter. That just demonstrates that you are utterly incapable of recognizing the limitations of your context and perceptions, which makes you blind.

europagnpilgrim
05-03-2018, 10:55 AM
See... this talk.... all mental. There is no sense being made here. This is horse $#!t spewing out of you.



Semantics. He was a bad shooter. Who has ever argued that Iverson was a good shooter? If you think he was, you never watched him play.



So you criticize me for pointing to Iverson's woeful FG%, but then you cite raw stats in career averages? Ok.

Seems like you got two standards: one for you, and one for me. You might want to observe that several players on that title contenting team had higher FG% than him, but Iverson took more shots than them. So... why not share the ball?



But this is just you moving the goal post. You point to his height for his bad shooting (yes, bad shooting, but you can call it low FG%) so when I point out guys who were the same height or shorter, who shot higher, you change your standard: oh... they took less shots.

Yeah... well guys like Richmond and Jordan were on teams with little help and still shot better while taking a high volume of shot.

You're like "Oh... their taller." Then you go in a circle.

Iverson was inefficient. Period. Come up with whatever excuses you want, but t doesn't change the facts. You can pretend like "Oh... if he was taller.. oh... if he took fewer shots."

But he had overt limits to his game and you simply excuse them.



Stockton was smart. Iverson wasn't. Stockton took smart shots; Iverson tried to look like a hero.



???/



He was a liabiltiy. Period. Who gives a $#!t what LeBron says. Every time you try to 'prove' something by saying "But Lebron says..." Just remember: Jordon though Joe Wolf was better than Pippen.

Players aren't always right. Get over it and use evidence.





What about Hilary? What about the Democrats? What about your misdirection? The point is that Iverson was a liabiliy on defense. You want to bring up other people's offense?

Get over yourself. That is moronic to bring up somebody else's offensive game when we are discussing Iverson's defense.






Mutumbo posted 12.4 boards and 2.5 blocks per game that year. What does his age have to do with anything? And Mutumbo won DPOY when they went to the finals.

And since when does somebody have to make the all defensive team to be a steller defender? All kinds of great defeners get snubbed for that. Are you saying McKie wasn't a good defender? That Tyronne Hill wasn't an stellar defender? And your agrument? They didn't make All-NBA defensive teams? That's not even based on stats or performance, just some vote.

At least I base my interpretation on facts (read shooting percentages). You just go based on somebody age without address his actual level of play, and whether some beat writers from bigger markets watch enough games to know to vote for a quality role player who excels on D.

But whatever.



He also tried trading Iverson. All those compliments you listed, it's just "He's really good for such a short guy".


And Brown won a title easily with Billups and a short version of Mutumbo in Ben Wallace, but he couldn't pull it off with Iverson and Mutumbo.... you know... like how Billups took over Iverson's spot on the Nuggets and got them to the conference finals when Iverson couldn't get them past the first round.




You eye test = horse $#!t.

Stats equal facts.

I wouldn't rely entirely on one, but at the end of the day, the ball don't lie. And you know what the ball says? Iverson missed way more shots than he hit.





What about Hilary?

Don't p!ss on other guys. If you want to compare Iverson to McKie and Snow, then you are setting a low bar. Ok... he's better than them... but there are scores of guys I'd pick to build a team around over Iverson without hesitation.






So... you're full of $#!t. You got not stats... just "Larry Brown says this" and "LBJ says this" and "My eyes say this" and "Mckie and Snow sucks" and "but Iverson was short and took a lot of shots."

Excuses. Excues. Excuses.

You have no interest is listening to other people. You say a short dude with good handles, and he impressed you, understandably, but you are biased by that and refuse to look at his output.

Ball don't lie. .313 from the arc. .448 inside the arc. Neither is note worthy. There's a reason he never won it, and why it was only in a weak east that he was able to get to the finals.

Make all the excuses you want. Bottom line is he was inefficient and was a poor shooter by NBA standards.

But your eyes tell you the earth is flat, and that Iverson wa a good shooter. That just demonstrates that you are utterly incapable of recognizing the limitations of your context and perceptions, which makes you blind.


1. You are such a comedian and a ******** agent, why did I mention NASA in the first place? c'mon stop tap dancing around, you are buckin and tap dancing around what I am actually responding to, you mentioned the ignorant Kyrie flat earth **** and I back doored it with NASA round earth photoshop pictures, you started off with your post with the dumbest quote ever by being mad that I replied to your 'kyrie flat earth' talk that you sent to me first, go figure, I am dealing with a 3rd grade level sports announcer

2. what is your standards of a bad shooter? just pure advanced FG percentage / PER / TS right? Now go back and watch those Philly games from 98 - 04 and tell me how in the hell does a HOF coach run a guy all game long baseline to baseline running off screens to shoot either a long 2 or 3pt shot? when have you seen guys who run around baseline to baseline to shoot cant shoot? you are so incompetent to understand basic basketball that you throw around words like 'semantics' to sound like what I call you, a incompetent smart guy

3. Advanced stats nor raw per game avg. makes a decision on a player if I actually watch that player, for the older age I would rely on as much game film as possible and then quotes from peers / media and then the raw per game avg. and most important the supporting cast, you obviously have never watched AI until I guess around 01' season, his HS coach said Iverson used to pull up for 30ft effortlessly every game all net just to let folks know he is here, and like I said how can a midget player who is pushing 33yrs of age have his highest FG percentage? well just look at the talent Denver had, he went from shooting 30x to 18x and saw a increase in percentages across the board, raw and advanced, so what because any body who follows ball knows that almost 27ppg 7apg 2spg in your 12th season is all nba caliber on a 50 win team, well that's a 12 shot decrease and percentage went up 6 - 8 pct, depending on how you look at it

why not share the ball? what the hell are you talking about, you sit up here and say I cant read but its obvious you cant because its clear as day I posted the ''Stats'' of Mckie and Snow pre Iverson, Snow was avg 1.5ppg and had career highs of 12-13ppg with Iverson, how in the hell is that not sharing the ball and maxing out a career 6ppg player? that's what I mean by you being incompetent but trying to put a stain on me with your incompetence, cut it out johnnie boy

now ask yourself why did Iverson have such a shot decrease playing with another equal if he is such this ball hog that you are spewing out, which is ******** if you ever had to carry a load for a team, which I have had to do so I would know what I am talking about, we already had this discussion about playing and you got so butthurt I felt you were crying on your end speaking about it, sincerely

4. Moving what goal post? the truth usually does that, bad shots lead to bad FG percentage, I would post it for you but you go do some homework and its documented that Stephan A Smith spoke on this on public record on how Iverson would pass to everybody out there from Mckie to Snow to Hill and they all would pass it back to him with 5 seconds on the shot clock and AI said what am I supposed to do, shoot a pretty much tough / horrible / rushed shot, the times he came off the screen clean the jumper / 3pt shot was money, what ****ing season did you watch AI, his final 2 with Detroit / Memphis? like I said go watch game 1 of the NBA Finals in 2001 and never speak on this again, if you have two good eyes you will see it in plain sight what I am speaking on, now follow directions like a good sheep and go watch that game and you will see and hopefully graduate to the 4th grade of nba talk. why does Capela / D Jordan / Shaq / Wilt shooter higher than guards / perimeter players? you mean to tell me MJ / Bron / Wilt cant post up every single time to their advantage if they wanted to? Richmond got his team how far with little help? well he should have shot more, Jordan was a dunk / slashing machine his early years, he was mid range more so but didn't have the range AI had naturally, just look at the 3pt attempts and makes their first 5 years

we are comparing a 5'9'' guy to giants of the game, think about it, we are not comparing Stockton / Nash and all those other smart PG guys you love, they don't compare, they played like their natural height / size. Stockton took smart shots, in the biggest games of his life in the Finals where Malone needed scoring help he chose to take his 9 shots per game, good smart Stockton, Finals 0 -2 for doing just that, had he channeled his inner Iverson and went dumb on the shots / scoring they would have had a real shot at winning, nobody on the Bulls should have been able to stop him out side of Jordan, and you just pick and roll him to death with Malone to fix that, Stockton was too smart for his own good, sort of like yourself


6. Everybody is a liability at something, point blank period, AI was switched to SG at basically N Robinson size so how is he supposed to fair against SG if you have to guard your position? you sound so dumb, if CP3 had to guard shooting guards he would be a defensive liability or any little guy for that matter, if Kobe had to guard the Small Forwards his entire career he would have been a defensive liability, if Shaq had to guard Dirk / Love entire game with them cemented at the 3pt line he becomes a defensive liability, and sometime the word liability means good, depends on where you look it up at, use unabridged versions, players are never right when wanted to link up with frat buddies, those college bonds last a life time, you see them in the movies right? Jordan wanted Wolf over Pippen, the same Wolf that went 13th overall(as did Kobe) and attended UNC where Jordan went as well, last I checked the lottery is top 13, so Wolf went in the lottery and Jordan wanted him 8 picks earlier, I have never heard on public record Jordan claiming Wolf to be greater / more dominant than L Bird or any other euro / albion player, Lebron said Iverson is the 'greatest' p4p player ever, that is a clear separation of what both are implying

your reasoning would be close to what I mentioned about Zeke taking those bad boys players over any and all player in history, that's his quote on public record / tv, he said he would take Mahorn / Laimbeer / Dumars over Jabbar / Wilt / Jordan / Magic, that's not the same as him saying those players are more dominant / better, he even makes it clear about that as well, you aren't reaching for straws because you are too busy searching for that elusive needle in the haystack, that isn't there

7. are you this incompetent? I mention the offense because you said the defense carried him, what about Hilary? or Demo - crat? we don't come from that, ancient matriarch / republic is how we roll, I have educated you enough now go do some research and learn for self so you can maneuver through the Ma - Trix Womb(Universe)

8. Age has a lot to do with a slow footed player along side a 25yr old speed racer, Ratliff was way better fit, Mutombo always was good rebounder but age means a lot when it comes to a 2nd option, how good was Cavs Shaq version as 2nd option to Lebron? or do you think age had something to do with Shaq not being able to get 38 / 18 like he used to do in playoffs / Finals? but once again I should have known you being incompetent you would know what age has to do with anything since you are stuck in a 3rd grade mental state about a simple game of basketball, instead you want to muddy up the waters with advanced stats, which only pushes you back 5 steps because it is a mis advanced program

9. so what is more factual you seeing something live in person / tv or reading numbers after the fact of what you watched has already passed? this isn't the chicken or the egg debate, its as simple as the game has to be played first to even ever start to look at stats, players play and create stats, they were good defenders, **** its all they did so they should have been solid, did you see the PPG for those players? so damn at least play defense, but you cant ignore the fact that Iverson led the league in steals 3 straight years, that's helping rather you want to believe it or not, go look at the past 20yrs from steals leaders / blocked shots and tell me if they are worthless to the team on defense, so why Iverson? I forgot he is the poster child for it all, so how am I not basing mine on facts when I mention his teammates and how they played and who coached them? those aren't facts anymore?

10. I wish that trade would have went down so you could have saw multiple deep postseason runs, Detroit would have went to ECF from 2000-2008 then AI would have handed baton to Bron to run with it, nah you say he is really good for a short guy, Bron said he is the greatest player ever p4p, and Bron said he played like a 6/8'' two guard, at 5'10'' 150lbs soak and wet, what a machine, Brown maxed out Iverson and then went to a team Carlisle would have taken to Finals that very year that Brown went into, that team had apex Wallace, lottery picks galore, you act like B Wallace was the Cavs version or Bulls version, Iverson didn't have Nuggets version of Mutombo, that's why age makes a difference since I guess you don't see it because you are blind by Lebron and his age 33 campaign, it doesn't work like that, only a handful of guys who are built like that

So where does Billups rank all time on your most dominant / best list? look at how Pippen was runner up mvp when Jordan retired and bulls won 50+ games, so is Pippen more dominant that Jordan? a blown call away from conference finals trip without Jordan very next season, and also when Pippen sat out that crucial game 7 against Pistons the Bulls lost, so is Pippen the main reason why Jordan got his titles? so shouldn't that push Jordan down the rankings based on your views? Shaq / Wade won title and got swept by baby bulls so should that make the baby bulls players some of the best ever? you sound lost, confused, dazed and amazed all in one

sucks for Iverson they had to face the Spurs in his 1/2 season with Nuggets in 07', Spurs won title that season so they beat every rounds 1 - 4, and in his only full 1 season with Nuggets him and Melo lead league as scoring duo and win 50 games and take the 8th seed and play the Lakers in 2008 who happen to beat everyone out West and took a beatdown by the Celtics in Finals, but I guess we should just leave that out as well, and what do you know deja vu happens but 2 rounds later, Lakers beat Nuggets in 09', so what **** happens

Why did those same Billups led Nuggets get put out in the 1st round very next season? don't tell me that 09' season was a fluke, I mean c'mon man they traded Iverson and made the 09 Conference Finals and the nba history as we knew just stopped operating, I mean until the 2010 season came and Nuggets went out 1st round against Jazz, thanks for leaving that part out so I could mention it, good job johnnie boy

11. Stats don't lie? I told you who creates the stats, the superstar player(s) and the ''''''supporting cast''''''', really focus on that last part so you wont get lost

you would have to be the only person in nba history to rely on stats over actually watching players perform, that is the dumbest **** I have ever heard, hey lets go watch a funny comedian live and you would say lets look at his attendance numbers to see how funny he is but not realizing he might not have a dollar of promo invested but is the funniest guy alive but since his numbers weren't to your liking you didn't want to go see the comedian, even after credible sources told you different, you still went with the numbers, poor little johnnie Debbie

12. Pissing on guys would be wanting them to do more than what they are actually capable of, or them showing me what they are capable of for years and expecting something different, I called it how it was, they were good defenders who couldn't shoot consistently, Mckie was better than Snow, Snow could barely hit a elbow jumper from the games I watched, after watching something for years it doesn't take a smart guy to figure something so basic out, you are uplifting guys because you are trying to prove a point that cant be proven because you cant forget they are 6-7ppg scorers, a decade worth of play on top of that, so one again you are trying to throw a pity party for avg. players, I just call a spade a spade

Notice how AI switched to PG and got better finisher / shooter in Korver and Iggy and he avg 8apg, you keep forgetting his job with Snow was to shoot and shoot and shoot, he wasn't the prime ball handler, its why Snow said he loved playing with AI more than Bron because AI let him run the PG where Bron was the PG / Scorer and there was no minutes for him to run the PG, plus he was older as well and sucked worse when Bron got him, but you call it pissing on someone, I respect all nba players but its diff. levels to this ****, I respect all actors, musicians but its levels to this ****, so be it

13. I got no stats? who is the '2nd' leading ppg nba playoff per game avg wise in history, most steals in a playoff game? what 'collection' of players have the most 'scoring' titles, '1st' overall pick in a 'loaded / multiple HOF' draft ?well there go your stats right there

since when did speaking on a situation about what actually happened turn into excuses? so should I say Iverson drafted in 96' draft went on to play with 3 all stars in his apex and couldn't win 50 games but 1 time and made 1 finals trip in 10 yrs, would you call that a bunch of folly or facts? it cant be an excuse since you said I already did that with actual facts, now deal with the folly

all I been doing is listening and replying back and putting you in your place, you know you in that deep water on this and try to gloss over it by saying I am 'pissing on players' or making up excuses by stating public record qutoes and situations over stats that happen to come after the play of the ''team'', but you just focus on Iverson and his FG% but when I mention Snow / Mckie FG you say its excuses and blah blah blah, you are acting like Mckie / Snow are apex superstar all nba caliber and Iverson shot so much and horribly that he froze them out, and through it all they signed contracts for 40mill each, you don't tie up 80mill dollars for combined 12ppg and solid defense, not in any era except possibly today where 12ppg and 7rpg get you 100mill for 1 player

so why are you pissing on Iverson and his FG%? why are you so sensitive towards other but not AI? did he snub you for an autograph? or did he make your fav player fall from one of his patented moves? you seem to have this grudge against AI but so much pity and mercy for other players, whatever makes you sleep well at night, continue



Until further notice you are hereby warranted to

StandDown

Chronz
05-03-2018, 01:28 PM
Guys plz keep this ball related, trust me, this isn't the place for that kind of talk, just agree to diss.

JasonJohnHorn
05-03-2018, 03:26 PM
Until further notice you are hereby warranted to

StandDown

So... in sumation:
1. Logical fallacy.
2. Logical fallacy.
3. Logical fallacy.
4. Stand down.

Got it.

Now... is Melo more likely to end up like AI? Or Aguirre?

JasonJohnHorn
05-03-2018, 03:27 PM
Guys plz keep this ball related, trust me, this isn't the place for that kind of talk, just agree to diss.

You're right. I try, but I letmyself get baited.

Laker Legend42
05-04-2018, 06:08 AM
As good as Russell Westbrook is everything wrong with that team is his fault. For melo and George to go there and him not do everything in his power to get and keep them involved is crazy. Imagine if Aaron Rodgers got two top receivers and he started to run the ball himself all the time. That’s Westbrook. Steven Adams is a better player than Clint capella but harden and Paul make sure to reward him when he runs the floor. Steven Adams should be averaging 15 or so points a game. I’m sure Westbrook wants his team to win I just think he wants it to be solely because of him. Melo hit career lows across the board. That tells me he wasn’t comfortable all season. You take a guy who can post and score from pretty much anywhere on the floor and basically make him a spot up shooter. When your point guard is taking 39 shots and melo gets 6 or 7 that’s ridiculous. To get a real understanding of Westbrook’s impact on his team look at the guys who left and how they did.

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 10:02 AM
Guys plz keep this ball related, trust me, this isn't the place for that kind of talk, just agree to diss.

Miss me with this poppycock talk, trust me if this wasn't the place then Kaep shoudnt have taken a knee, Bron shouldn't have spoken about that house / garage incident where he once again was using coonery dialogue, Ali shouldn't have went against draft army orders, Jordan should have spoken out more during his days, nba players shouldn't have wore a T Martin hoodie for that hoax of a news jobs, yeah I said it, hoax, so if this isn't the place for that kind of talk then no more threads should be made about racist remarks / social content that I see on here in some threads

I will never agree to disagree about the truth, that right there is political talk at its weakest order

agree to disagree is for those who throw in the towel after getting stumped, no one can make me think Iverson shot a bunch of times because he froze all nba caliber players out, and no one can come at me talking about 'indigenous' without even knowing who those people truly are

I will not agree to disagree that Pilgrims fed INDIans(INDIgo is what Colon / Columbus really meant since it means dark color) as what you call Thanksgiving, if I gave you the true story on Thanksgiving you wouldn't want that info on this place, trust me

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 10:16 AM
So... in sumation:
1. Logical fallacy.
2. Logical fallacy.
3. Logical fallacy.
4. Stand down.

Got it.

Now... is Melo more likely to end up like AI? Or Aguirre?

obviously you cant read because I posted on here that Melo isn't on AI level so will Melo become J Crawford or Aguirre

Iverson and Melo situation are not comparable, Iverson was on a 50 win team 8th seed and put up almost 27ppg with 7apg 2spg, Melo is coming off a 16ppg campaign, he should come off the bench, this AI bench **** was a media creation and the players used were Stuckey / Conley

can you imagine if Lebron or any other superstar coming off a year like AI did would be asked to come off the bench just 6 months later? I mean I can see if AI or even Melo were just 'screen setters' / divers for loose ball type players then yeah come off the bench, Bron is not coming off no bench for Gilchrist / Porter Jr., well that's how I definitely viewed those players back then, possibly lesser versions at that

So to re mix the answer again, Melo should end up like Aguirre if he follows his draft buddy Bron

You sure do got it, especially with my last post

4th round TKO, don't speak on The Answer no more because you over rank his support cast then get mad after I point it out and say 'I am pissing on players', no you are over ranking players therefore pissing on them in that way

no need to StandDown, you are knocked out

don't ever disrespect a legend of any sports

you are the type of analyst to think Jeter is better than Bonds because he has 5 rings, well those are stats right?

europagnpilgrim
05-04-2018, 10:23 AM
You're right. I try, but I letmyself get baited.

you sure did get baited with facts:

Eric Snow pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 1.5ppg / 1998 season on 43% FG and 000. 3pt FG%

Aaron Mckie pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 4.5 ppg / 1998 season on a jaw dropping 41% FG up from 36% season before with a blistering 17% from 3pt range

George Lynch - 6.6ppg career 44%FG
T. McCulloch - 6ppg career
T Hill - pre Sixers trade avg. 8.6ppg / 12ppg after trade
M Jackson - pre Sixers trade avg 5.5ppg / high of 12ppg with Iverson, most since rookie season
J Salmons - 9ppg career / 7.5ppg career high with Sixers



not only did you get baited into that deep water of orca whales but you forgot how incompetent offensively his support cast was, shame on you for not being informed better and trying to speak on Iverson calling him a ball hog / horrible shooter because he was the entire 'offense', like how Wilt was in his early days and how Lebron / Jordan were at one time

you notice how I can only mention Iverson with the giants of the game, not the Nash / Stockton etc of the game, they don't compare

JAZZNC
05-04-2018, 01:27 PM
you sure did get baited with facts:

Eric Snow pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 1.5ppg / 1998 season on 43% FG and 000. 3pt FG%

Aaron Mckie pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 4.5 ppg / 1998 season on a jaw dropping 41% FG up from 36% season before with a blistering 17% from 3pt range

George Lynch - 6.6ppg career 44%FG
T. McCulloch - 6ppg career
T Hill - pre Sixers trade avg. 8.6ppg / 12ppg after trade
M Jackson - pre Sixers trade avg 5.5ppg / high of 12ppg with Iverson, most since rookie season
J Salmons - 9ppg career / 7.5ppg career high with Sixers



not only did you get baited into that deep water of orca whales but you forgot how incompetent offensively his support cast was, shame on you for not being informed better and trying to speak on Iverson calling him a ball hog / horrible shooter because he was the entire 'offense', like how Wilt was in his early days and how Lebron / Jordan were at one time

you notice how I can only mention Iverson with the giants of the game, not the Nash / Stockton etc of the game, they don't compare

You're right, Stockton and Nash are in a different league than Iverson. Especially Stockton. Evidently orchestrating elite offenses for almost 2 decades means nothing compared to jacking up shots, gambling on defense, and not giving a **** about a team concept. Oh and being named by other stars of the game as a "tough" "pound for pound" guy. Gary Payton said Stockton was the toughest guy he ever guarded so by your logic that means he is better than Jordan. But I digress. It'll be no time flat before you post a novel telling me the same nonsense you continually spew out on this subject.

europagnpilgrim
05-05-2018, 09:00 AM
You're right, Stockton and Nash are in a different league than Iverson. Especially Stockton. Evidently orchestrating elite offenses for almost 2 decades means nothing compared to jacking up shots, gambling on defense, and not giving a **** about a team concept. Oh and being named by other stars of the game as a "tough" "pound for pound" guy. Gary Payton said Stockton was the toughest guy he ever guarded so by your logic that means he is better than Jordan. But I digress. It'll be no time flat before you post a novel telling me the same nonsense you continually spew out on this subject.

Eric Snow pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 1.5ppg / 1998 season on 43% FG and 000. 3pt FG%

Aaron Mckie pre Iverson / Sixers trade - 4.5 ppg / 1998 season on a jaw dropping 41% FG up from 36% season before with a blistering 17% from 3pt range

George Lynch - 6.6ppg career 44%FG
T. McCulloch - 6ppg career
T Hill - pre Sixers trade avg. 8.6ppg / 12ppg after trade
M Jackson - pre Sixers trade avg 5.5ppg / high of 12ppg with Iverson, most since rookie season
J Salmons - 9ppg career / 7.5ppg career high with Sixers


Sure Stockton orchestrated elite offense with a scoring champ caliber 1st ballot HOF'er as Batman to himself as Robin, put Stockton on that 98 - 2004 squads and I guarantee you it wouldn't be the same Stockton that we all come to know, no more pick and roll, no freight train PF running the lanes, no PF hitting jumpers on the pick and pop, no Hornacek, Mutombo and Eaton are comparable but that's about it, and the coach

put Iverson with apex Malone, that would have been a fastbreak to see

Stockton came into the league as a backup, Iverson came into the league as a savior for a franchise, he had fanatics in the stands holding up signs claiming they were ''Ready for the Revolution'', stop comparing back up players turned starters to day 1 legends / true franchise changers, stop being so damn disrespectful


Payton would have a tough time guarding a guy who puts not pressure on him and looking to pass and pass and pass and pass to pick and roll HOF 1st ballot Mailman, who was Iverson passing to? look above for legit / factual proof

Payton wanted to lock guys down who attacked at him like the Jordan / Iverson, Stockton was the hardest for him because it took his passion / emotion away defense wise because he was just out there, he didn't look at Stockton as a mission impossible ala Jordan, Jordan took Payton serious and vice versa which makes it easier for Payton to get in his grizzly def. mode, this is being spoken from a basketball player view and not a spectator, as yourself is speaking about

speaking for myself, its been plenty of times at the gym / park where I dissect players games and see who is who, and if a guy is a good player I focus way more making it easy for me to be locked in, if a guy is avg. or below its harder for me to engage and guard that player, I roam a lot more because it harder for me to focus on this guy who is not a threat, not that I don't respect the player its just he doesn't pose that big of a challenge, I am sure Payton respected the hell out of Stockton but its just not the same as going up against Jordan / Iverson, and stop trying to sneak Stockton in that category, its disrespectful to Jordan / Iverson and other dominant legends of the game

so by your logic using the Payton quote, Iverson was heralded by basically the entire nba as the toughest player to guard, its on public record, go watch the video when you get time

so based on that and what Lebron said about Iverson, not only was Iverson the toughest / hardest to guard during his time, but he also is the greatest p4p player ever, that trumps Stockton big time

Kobe said Jordan / Iverson were the fiercest competitors / hardest to guard, so Iverson is in a league by himself, Nash and Stockton are in a different league and its called they are 2 of the best PG's to ever play

Iverson is this according to Lebron Raymone James:"Pound-for-pound, probably the greatest player who ever played," James said of Iverson

"I watch Jordan more than anybody for sure," James said in ESPN The Magazine's NBA Preview Issue. "But I'll watch tapes of A.I., too. I don't take anything from A.I.. Well, I do -- his will. They say he was 6 feet, but A.I. was like 5-10½. Do we even want to say 160? 170 [pounds]? Do we even want to give him that much weight? And he played like a 6-8 2-guard. He was one of the greatest finishers we've ever seen. You could never question his heart. Ever. He gave it his all. A.I. was like my second-favorite player growing up, after MJ."

Hey another smart guy here, where did Lebron mention ''toughest pound for pound''? so is Jordan the toughest(GOAT)? its clearly Lebron said 'greatest' not 'toughest' but hey whatever makes you feel good and sleep well at night, utilize it, its your free Liberty to do so, just wont work with me



See how I yin your yang, you tried to say based on what I mentioned then I flipped it around on you and used the same thing you are using against yourself

what carries more weight, G Payton and his individual or a quote from a Noahs Ark load of multiple nba players? don't worry I wont expect an honest reply

I always stray you and others in the deep water with those orca whales so you can drown on your own so called 'statement'

Iverson was the toughest to guard and he is the greatest p4p player ever according to a guy claimed by most to possibly have the highest IQ in the entire history of the nba, Lebron Raymone James

you have been added to the deep water list

StandDown

europagnpilgrim
05-05-2018, 09:11 AM
at JAZZNC, in the biggest games of his life, Stockton shot 10x per game and all Malone needed was another 20ppg scorer like Jordan got from Pippen in 97'

had Stockton been in Iverson league he would have gave Malone that 20ppg help, Stockton just wasn't built like that because like you said he is in another league

its called ''assist hunting'' league, his team needed scoring, its why I value combo guards over assist hunting guards, combo guards can do both equally, given the scenario, Nash / Stockton are pure assist hunters, Nash was a more willing scorer, that's who the Jazz needed because Nash would have got that 18-20ppg Mailman needed, poor Stockton

JordansBulls
05-07-2018, 08:55 PM
AI got his team to the finals as the clear cut best on the team.