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View Full Version : End of the One & Done Rule?



HandsOnTheWheel
04-25-2018, 11:50 AM
989127862044299265

Personally love it for the NBA

IndyRealist
04-25-2018, 12:54 PM
I'll make this as general as possible so people can save face.

I told you so.

valade16
04-25-2018, 01:05 PM
I'll make this as general as possible so people can save face.

I told you so.

LMAO. I feel the same way!

Scoots
04-25-2018, 02:00 PM
I'll make this as general as possible so people can save face.

I told you so.

But did they say what it might look like if they change it?

Heediot
04-25-2018, 05:22 PM
Hopefully it's either no college or 3 years of college (min). Top HS prospects should choose one route or the other. A hybrid of how the nfl does it.

Vinylman
04-27-2018, 08:21 AM
No details on how it might even work but the geniuses are already proclaiming they were right even though those who argued against them said they wouldn't return to the "old system"

Nuance is a mother ****er

warfelg
04-27-2018, 08:31 AM
And for the first 10 picks in the draft:
Someone you never heard of because the NBA is taking the upside of some highschool kid!

Mr.ATLHawks
04-27-2018, 11:01 AM
Good this is how it should be. If Kids are good enough and teams are willing to draft them then they shouldn,t be forced to go to college. Sure there will be busts, just like there are for ones coming from college. They shouldnt have the rule in the NFL either. This is America and if some team is willing to give them a shot then that,s how it should be. Just like it is in Baseball and other sports.

warfelg
04-27-2018, 12:01 PM
Good this is how it should be. If Kids are good enough and teams are willing to draft them then they shouldn,t be forced to go to college. Sure there will be busts, just like there are for ones coming from college. They shouldnt have the rule in the NFL either. This is America and if some team is willing to give them a shot then that,s how it should be. Just like it is in Baseball and other sports.

The problem there is NFL has the rule in place because of physical maturity. MLB and NHL have a great minor league system in place to help those guys grow. NBA has neither thing in place. So there isn't a great development path or fall back place if a guy isn't ready or needs some work.

Mr.ATLHawks
04-27-2018, 12:31 PM
The problem there is NFL has the rule in place because of physical maturity. MLB and NHL have a great minor league system in place to help those guys grow. NBA has neither thing in place. So there isn't a great development path or fall back place if a guy isn't ready or needs some work.

NBA has G League or even they can go play in Europe or China for millions.

If the kids don't get drafted they should be allowed to go to college, IMO. Not sure how that would work but would make it an option for them at least.

NYKalltheway
04-27-2018, 12:40 PM
Hopefully it's either no college or 3 years of college (min). Top HS prospects should choose one route or the other. A hybrid of how the nfl does it.

Completely agree. Instead of college you could allow players to move overseas for 3 years as well.

valade16
04-27-2018, 01:26 PM
No details on how it might even work but the geniuses are already proclaiming they were right even though those who argued against them said they wouldn't return to the "old system"

Nuance is a mother ****er

If your hill to die on is "I said they wouldn't ever let HS kids back into the NBA and even though they are, they aren't doing it exactly the same way as before", it's not a great hill to die on lol

tp13baby
04-27-2018, 05:30 PM
I think 3 years might be a little long. 2 years in college or straight to the NBA. For this to work the G league has to become a strong system in which players can flourish. Itís too much of a street like type game with little defense and run and gun offense.

NYKalltheway
04-27-2018, 06:47 PM
I think 3 years might be a little long. 2 years in college or straight to the NBA. For this to work the G league has to become a strong system in which players can flourish. Itís too much of a street like type game with little defense and run and gun offense.

Are you sure you're not talking about the NBA?

Vinylman
04-28-2018, 11:34 AM
If your hill to die on is "I said they wouldn't ever let HS kids back into the NBA and even though they are, they aren't doing it exactly the same way as before", it's not a great hill to die on lol

go read the original thread...

the intelligent people on the subject aren't little nancy's reacting to every media report...

Any system put in place will look nothing like the one in place before the one and done rule was put in place

JordansBulls
04-28-2018, 04:49 PM
With the corruption in college now in the NCAA this makes sense now.

ewing
04-28-2018, 07:47 PM
I think kids should be allowed to play. I also think the top of draft being dominated by kids that are not NBA ready kind of kills the point.

Heediot
04-29-2018, 04:49 AM
Maybe there should be two way contracts for rookies now with the glut of raw kids that are going to be taking the nba option. I think they should look into that.

Scoots
04-29-2018, 07:54 AM
Maybe there should be two way contracts for rookies now with the glut of raw kids that are going to be taking the nba option. I think they should look into that.

ALL NBA contracts are two-way contracts as far as playing in the developmental and big league, so if, as some people believe, the NBA will allow teams to draft anybody then all of those players will be eligible to play in the G-league by default.

warfelg
04-29-2018, 08:24 AM
ALL NBA contracts are two-way contracts as far as playing in the developmental and big league, so if, as some people believe, the NBA will allow teams to draft anybody then all of those players will be eligible to play in the G-league by default.

IIRC there's some caps to that though. Like a certain number of send downs and call ups before you are forced to release them.

I really think if they want to go through with this, they need to make a 1:1 G-League/NBA team match, make the draft 3 rounds, make the 3rd round all 2-way contracts, and put some other provisions in there.

Scoots
04-29-2018, 07:08 PM
IIRC there's some caps to that though. Like a certain number of send downs and call ups before you are forced to release them.

I really think if they want to go through with this, they need to make a 1:1 G-League/NBA team match, make the draft 3 rounds, make the 3rd round all 2-way contracts, and put some other provisions in there.

You can send an NBA player on an NBA contract to the G-league as many times as you want.

zookman65
04-29-2018, 11:32 PM
The problem there is NFL has the rule in place because of physical maturity. MLB and NHL have a great minor league system in place to help those guys grow. NBA has neither thing in place. So there isn't a great development path or fall back place if a guy isn't ready or needs some work.

Maturity argument is the party line but obviously a symbiotic relationship between the NCAA money machine and the NFL. NFL has no incentive not to have a very well oiled farm system (NCAA) in place. Nonsense that they are worried about physical maturity - its about keeping the nice free farm system in place.

Scoots
04-30-2018, 12:05 AM
Maturity argument is the party line but obviously a symbiotic relationship between the NCAA money machine and the NFL. NFL has no incentive not to have a very well oiled farm system (NCAA) in place. Nonsense that they are worried about physical maturity - its about keeping the nice free farm system in place.

It's both really. The NFL and NBA want more information about prospects so they don't screw up too often in the draft, AND the NCAA members make a lot of money off the arrangement.

zookman65
04-30-2018, 02:01 AM
I agree. That's what I was implying with "symbiotic relationship". I don't buy the concept of being concerned about physical maturity.

valade16
04-30-2018, 06:43 AM
go read the original thread...

the intelligent people on the subject aren't little nancy's reacting to every media report...

Any system put in place will look nothing like the one in place before the one and done rule was put in place

But I just want to be clear, before the one and done rule HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected and what they want to do now is eliminate the one and done rule so... HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected.

Big change. Yes, the nuances of the system and how it's implemented will change. But HS kids being able to go to the NBA is the biggest change and in that thread everyone argued about how dumb an idea it was to let HS kids go to the NBA at all, not just under the old system.

Vinylman
04-30-2018, 06:29 PM
But I just want to be clear, before the one and done rule HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected and what they want to do now is eliminate the one and done rule so... HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected.

Big change. Yes, the nuances of the system and how it's implemented will change. But HS kids being able to go to the NBA is the biggest change and in that thread everyone argued about how dumb an idea it was to let HS kids go to the NBA at all, not just under the old system.

nah... that isn't what I was saying ... I said the League preferred additional evaluation time... whether that happens in the G League or in College is irrelevant. I don't see the League approving a scenario where players can go straight from HS to the League without changing the pay structure for rookie contracts again.

That was the original point of the one and done ... reduce the financial risk of busts...

I will wait to see what changes but I don't think it will look anything like it did before.

zookman65
04-30-2018, 06:33 PM
nah... that isn't what I was saying ... I said the League preferred additional evaluation time... whether that happens in the G League or in College is irrelevant. I don't see the League approving a scenario where players can go straight from HS to the League without changing the pay structure for rookie contracts again.

That was the original point of the one and done ... reduce the financial risk of busts...

I will wait to see what changes but I don't think it will look anything like it did before.

I don't think there is any clear evidence that there are any less busts with the one and done than the straight from HS model. Each year there are busts in the lottery even though they have been "evaluated".

Scoots
04-30-2018, 08:57 PM
I agree. That's what I was implying with "symbiotic relationship". I don't buy the concept of being concerned about physical maturity.

That is part of it though ... those extra years make it more likely a player who is soft doesn't make it through college healthy and it makes them less likely to be drafted. The NFL does care about their physical maturity in that it makes them less likely to draft players who can't stand up to the abuse.

Scoots
04-30-2018, 08:59 PM
But I just want to be clear, before the one and done rule HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected and what they want to do now is eliminate the one and done rule so... HS kids could declare for the NBA draft and be selected.

Big change. Yes, the nuances of the system and how it's implemented will change. But HS kids being able to go to the NBA is the biggest change and in that thread everyone argued about how dumb an idea it was to let HS kids go to the NBA at all, not just under the old system.

So, if the new system has them being limited to the G-league that's not going to the NBA right?

Scoots
04-30-2018, 09:01 PM
I don't think there is any clear evidence that there are any less busts with the one and done than the straight from HS model. Each year there are busts in the lottery even though they have been "evaluated".

That's nearly impossible for us to evaluate. NBA teams will have their data from scouting players in high school and the rate they fail to make the NBA to support whatever position they take. In no system I can think of does having more (usable) data not result in fewer errors.

JWO35
05-02-2018, 02:37 PM
On top of allowing players to enter the NBA out of HS, they should also allow undrafted college players who still have eligible years remaining to return to college. It makes zero sense to deny players eligibility because they took a chance...who wouldn't throw their hat in the NBA draft if they truly thought they had a chance to get drafted or make a team? And I get the whole scholarships or taking someone else's spot, but if that's too much of a thing to overlook they could grant these players the freedom to transfer to any college they seem fit, you know kinda like what college HCs are allowed to do without any penalty :shrug:

Also forcing players to "stay" for X-amount of years is stupid. I get it from the NFL standpoint as it relates to maturity, but it's still stupid. Imagining going to a job interview and they say you meet all the qualifications and would make an excellent addition to the company....but you aren't X-amount of years removed from college or HS and they, unfortunately can't hire you.

Vinylman
05-03-2018, 09:32 AM
On top of allowing players to enter the NBA out of HS, they should also allow undrafted college players who still have eligible years remaining to return to college. It makes zero sense to deny players eligibility because they took a chance...who wouldn't throw their hat in the NBA draft if they truly thought they had a chance to get drafted or make a team? And I get the whole scholarships or taking someone else's spot, but if that's too much of a thing to overlook they could grant these players the freedom to transfer to any college they seem fit, you know kinda like what college HCs are allowed to do without any penalty :shrug:

Also forcing players to "stay" for X-amount of years is stupid. I get it from the NFL standpoint as it relates to maturity, but it's still stupid. Imagining going to a job interview and they say you meet all the qualifications and would make an excellent addition to the company....but you aren't X-amount of years removed from college or HS and they, unfortunately can't hire you.

The bolded has nothing to do with the NBA and they can already return if they don't sign with an agent

The pity party for the players is beyond hilarious

Vinylman
05-03-2018, 09:40 AM
I don't think there is any clear evidence that there are any less busts with the one and done than the straight from HS model. Each year there are busts in the lottery even though they have been "evaluated".

sigh... have you ever looked at a rivals 100 when the players enter college and then see how much the players move around when drafted a year later?

I am sure though that your viewpoint is more accurate than the league who wanted to put the current system in place to reduce risk. They aren't professionals at this or anything.

warfelg
05-03-2018, 09:57 AM
The bolded has nothing to do with the NBA and they can already return if they don't sign with an agent

The pity party for the players is beyond hilarious

Agreed 1000%. It's kinda absurd how every one of these things is always about "but they screw the players!"

Ok, players have found loopholes. Playing overseas, reclassifying, now we got one going to the G-League. I knew when this first started that the loopholes would be found. And they found them. The 1-and-done rule wasn't to protect the NBA, protect the NCAA, or to hurt the players. The 1-and-done was to protect players from themselves. And I say look at the contradiction that they have said: We want older players to still get paid, but we also want it to be easier for more and younger players to come into the league who are cheaper for teams. We care about the middle class of the NBA, but we want it to be easier to pay the max contracts and make teams give more.

NBA players collectively give themselves the worse deals in CBA's. Yea they get guaranteed money and the NFL has that. Yea they have a soft cap and the NHL doesn't have that. Yea they can get multiple paydays and the MLB sometimes doesn't.

But they've choked out the market on 80% of their players. These $8-12mil a year deals are a dying breed. They've killed their older players from being able to continually earn by making it easier to control a younger player longer. They've killed the ability for young guys to develop by pushing the need for them to be the face of the franchise.

I've said it all along. This last CBA that was negotiated was self serving to the highest degree of the leadership if the NBPA. The 4 biggest parts of the player leadership is who got served the best from it. 4 aging stars that gained the most through raising max deals, raising the age, and making it easier to retain players. Oh, those 4: Lebron James, Chris Paul, Andre Igoudala, Carmelo Anthony. Now 2 of those players have already directly benefited from the change (LBJ, Iggy) another is about to benefit (CP3), and the last one shot himself in the foot (Melo).

They screwed their rank and file.

Sorry got off on a rant there, but this 1-and-done was nothing more than to save players from themselves. And it's failed a bit because guys that should have stayed have come out. I dunno if some of these guys would have come out if it weren't for the rule. Maybe a few guys that went to less established programs end up going to a bigger one, not playing much freshman year, and then play more sophomore and junior years and then turn pro. Maybe they turn pro asap and get drafted in round 2.

zookman65
05-03-2018, 02:22 PM
sigh... have you ever looked at a rivals 100 when the players enter college and then see how much the players move around when drafted a year later?

I am sure though that your viewpoint is more accurate than the league who wanted to put the current system in place to reduce risk. They aren't professionals at this or anything.

Clearly since they are likely to abandon the "protective" one and done and rule.

Scoots
05-03-2018, 06:12 PM
Looked it up ... 35% of underclassmen who declared for the NFL draft were not drafted. That is players 3 years removed from high school.

I tried but could not find numbers from the high schoolers draft rate from the pre one and done rule change.

Vinylman
05-04-2018, 12:12 PM
Clearly since they are likely to abandon the "protective" one and done and rule.

a simpleton response... not unexpected... give us your analysis once the new system comes out... you're delusional if you think they are returning to the old system....

JWO35
05-07-2018, 02:13 PM
The bolded has nothing to do with the NBA and they can already return if they don't sign with an agent

The pity party for the players is beyond hilarious

There's a "Point of no return" (aka a deadline) regardless if you signed an agent or not...if you don't get drafted (and did not sign an agent) you are still ineligible to play college ball.

It's hilarious that you think allowing players to return to school and continue playing is a "pity party"...Making millions of dollars off of college athletes without them making a single dime is a "pity party".

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 02:22 PM
There's a "Point of no return" (aka a deadline) regardless if you signed an agent or not...if you don't get drafted (and did not sign an agent) you are still ineligible to play college ball.

It's hilarious that you think allowing players to return to school and continue playing is a "pity party"...Making millions of dollars off of college athletes without them making a single dime is a "pity party".

really?

none of what you said has anything to do with the NBA... its the colleges rule ... the CBA says they don't have to withdraw until 10 days before the draft

Here is a summary of early entry:

Players who are not automatically eligible but wish to be drafted must declare their eligibility no later than 60 days before the draft.[19] After this date, "early entry" players may attend NBA pre-draft camps and individual team workouts to show off their skills and obtain feedback regarding their draft positions. Under the CBA, a player may withdraw his name from consideration from the draft at any time before the final declaration date, which is 10 days before the draft.[20] However, the NCAA adopted a rule that took effect in August 2009 that requires players at its member institutions to withdraw no later than May 8 to retain their college eligibility; the first draft affected by this rule was the 2010 draft.[21] In 2011, the NCAA shortened its timeline for players to withdraw and retain eligibility to one day before the start of the spring signing period for men's basketball, which occurs in April.[22] The NCAA changed its withdrawal rule again in 2016, effective with that year's draft; its withdrawal deadline is now in late May, specifically 10 days after the final day of the annual NBA Draft Combine.[23]
A player who declares for the draft will lose his college eligibility, even if he is not drafted, if he signs with any agent.[24] Before 2016, the NCAA only allowed a player to enter the draft once without losing eligibility,[22] but current NCAA rules now allow players to declare for and withdraw from multiple drafts while retaining college eligibility.[23] The CBA allows a player to withdraw twice.[20]

As for making money off the players you obviously don't understand how title IX works and the fact that without college basketball and college football that all NCAA sports could never be funded...

btw... what exactly is your gripe about the money the schools make on the athletes? Are you under some ill informed belief that the schools pocket all of this and it doesn't go back into the athletic programs?

JWO35
05-07-2018, 03:23 PM
really?

none of what you said has anything to do with the NBA... its the colleges rule ... the CBA says they don't have to withdraw until 10 days before the draft

Here is a summary of early entry:

Players who are not automatically eligible but wish to be drafted must declare their eligibility no later than 60 days before the draft.[19] After this date, "early entry" players may attend NBA pre-draft camps and individual team workouts to show off their skills and obtain feedback regarding their draft positions. Under the CBA, a player may withdraw his name from consideration from the draft at any time before the final declaration date, which is 10 days before the draft.[20] However, the NCAA adopted a rule that took effect in August 2009 that requires players at its member institutions to withdraw no later than May 8 to retain their college eligibility; the first draft affected by this rule was the 2010 draft.[21] In 2011, the NCAA shortened its timeline for players to withdraw and retain eligibility to one day before the start of the spring signing period for men's basketball, which occurs in April.[22] The NCAA changed its withdrawal rule again in 2016, effective with that year's draft; its withdrawal deadline is now in late May, specifically 10 days after the final day of the annual NBA Draft Combine.[23]
A player who declares for the draft will lose his college eligibility, even if he is not drafted, if he signs with any agent.[24] Before 2016, the NCAA only allowed a player to enter the draft once without losing eligibility,[22] but current NCAA rules now allow players to declare for and withdraw from multiple drafts while retaining college eligibility.[23] The CBA allows a player to withdraw twice.[20]

As for making money off the players you obviously don't understand how title IX works and the fact that without college basketball and college football that all NCAA sports could never be funded...

btw... what exactly is your gripe about the money the schools make on the athletes? Are you under some ill informed belief that the schools pocket all of this and it doesn't go back into the athletic programs?

Tommy goes to college to play basketball at MoneyBags University
Tommy goes to the bookstore and sees everyone is buying his #00 jersey like hotcakes

How much money does Tommy get for every jersey sold?


Thanks for the copy & paste...yeah sounds like a deadline to me buddy :shrug:

Vinylman
05-07-2018, 03:26 PM
Tommy goes to college to play basketball at MoneyBags University
Tommy goes to the bookstore and sees everyone is buying his #00 jersey like hotcakes

How much money does Tommy get for every jersey sold?


Thanks for the copy & paste...yeah sounds like a deadline to me buddy :shrug:

Seriously your ignorance to Title IX restrictions is mind boggling

have a good day ... you aren't worth my time

JWO35
05-07-2018, 04:48 PM
Seriously your ignorance to Title IX restrictions is mind boggling

have a good day ... you aren't worth my time

Hopefully some other rando on the internet is :laugh:

ewing
05-07-2018, 09:20 PM
Seriously your ignorance to Title IX restrictions is mind boggling

have a good day ... you aren't worth my time

I canít think of anything less mind boggling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tp13baby
05-07-2018, 11:59 PM
Tommy goes to college to play basketball at MoneyBags University
Tommy goes to the bookstore and sees everyone is buying his #00 jersey like hotcakes

How much money does Tommy get for every jersey sold?


Thanks for the copy & paste...yeah sounds like a deadline to me buddy :shrug:

Like someone said earlier the impact of Title IX makes it near impossible. The amount of individuals who wouldnít go to college because there sport isnít funded at a college level would lead to a huge sociocultural impact that would absolutely negatively affect the urban areas in a bad way.

But scoot that aside. Tommy can make money other ways than attend college with other professional leagues and enter the draft. He made the choice to go play there when he is well aware of other options. For **** sakes he made that choice over pro ball and is well aware of the consequences. Are you in favor of babying the generation and giving them anything they want?

Zero sympathy for the athletes. They made the choice over making money. And the positive impact of you not getting paid has offered thousands of people the ability to attend college.

WestCoastSportz
05-10-2018, 03:05 PM
For every Kobe Bryant there's a Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, Eddy Curry, DaSagna Diop and a Ndubi Ebi that don't make it. But they do have to fix the rules to go one way or the other. Baseball players get drafted straight out of high school all the time. 14 high schoolers were drafted in the first round last year.

krazylegz
05-10-2018, 03:20 PM
its absolutely stupid for the one and done to continue...it would make college basketball alot more better if they eliminated this nonsense

KingPosey
05-10-2018, 04:22 PM
For every Kobe Bryant there's a Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith, Eddy Curry, DaSagna Diop and a Ndubi Ebi that don't make it. But they do have to fix the rules to go one way or the other. Baseball players get drafted straight out of high school all the time. 14 high schoolers were drafted in the first round last year.
If not making it is 3 guys whos career in the nba spanned a decade each, and a guy that's still currently a pro overseas then its absolutely a risk worth taking for kids. Youre not "protecting people from themselves" when you deny them the ability to make guaranteed millions. That is never ever protecting a person. Theres more than just the NBA and draft rules, but its the fringe guys who need to be allowed an avenue back to school, if they so choose.

Tg11
05-11-2018, 09:18 AM
I definitely love that high schoolers are going to be coming fresh out of high school back into the NBA; hey look at what it did for LeBron, Kobe, Garnett, etc. they all came out of high school fresh and played against men in the NBA; you do that it helps high schoolers eventually become future stars themselves