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View Full Version : Sabonis and the MIP award



JasonJohnHorn
04-24-2018, 10:16 PM
Most people are casting their vote for MIP with Victor Oladipa, and for good reason: he deserves it.

But what is interesting is that there is a strong case to be made for his teammates, Domantas Sabonis.


Last season, Sabonis got 20 minutes a game, with per-game averages of 6ppg, 3.6 rpg, and 1 apg (and about a half a steal and block). He shot .438 inside the arc, and .321 from beyond.

This year, with only 4 more minutes a game, he has nearly double the major statistical categorys: 11.6 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 2 apg (still have a steal and block a game). His percentages? .542 from inside the arc and .351 from beyond.

That is a huge instead of over 10% from inside and 3% from beyond that arc. A major improvement.


My vote would still go to Oladipa mind you, but feel like not enough has been said of Sabonis's improvements. Yes, this is to be expected in a second-year player, but it is rare to see two guys on the same roster improve so much.


And' he's coming off the bench, so he could place in the top five for both MIP and 6th man awards.

Thoughts?

Scoots
04-24-2018, 11:26 PM
I think Sabonis was very misused last year as a rookie. I don't think MIP should ever go to a 2nd year player.

JasonJohnHorn
04-25-2018, 07:08 AM
I think Sabonis was very misused last year as a rookie. I don't think MIP should ever go to a 2nd year player.

The first sentence is fair. I don't think anybody on OKC was used terribly well last year.

The second seems an artibtary statement. Why exclude second-year players? I realize there is an expectation of growth, but why not award that growth/improvement if it is beyond whatever growth/improvement exhibited by any ther player?

This is especially curious when we look at the varying ages that rookies come in at. Some are 20, 21, 19, and with European guys, sometimes in their mid 20s. So this would allow a guy who came in at 19 to win MIP at 21, while a guy who came in at 21 wouldn't be allowed to win it at 22?

I understand the sentiment, but I don't think that's fair to exclude 'sophmores' from MIP contention.

TheDish87
04-25-2018, 08:05 AM
2nd and 3rd year players shouldnt even be included for MIP. Thats what you are supposed to do, especially from year 1 to year 2. Dipo ran away with the award and Saric should be a slightly distant 2nd with a few others in the mix which will prob be mostly 2nd year guys too

sixer04fan
04-25-2018, 08:10 AM
I hate when 2nd year players get MIP consideration. It’s so lame. No **** they improved lol

PowerHouse
04-25-2018, 08:34 AM
A lot of second year players have won it though.

Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Kevin Johnson, Kevin Duckworth and Alvin Robertson. Were any of those guys not deserving? If not who should have taken the hardware that year?

ewing
04-25-2018, 08:36 AM
I liked this kid a lot with the Zags and still do but his game hasn’t really improved he is just in a better place for himself. Victor actually became a better basketball player. He deserves it. The more I watch Sabonis the more he he exposes himself imo. Guy has no right hand and has not improved his range thus far. If anything he needs to improve to become more then the bench big people already thought he was.


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Scoots
04-25-2018, 09:12 AM
To me the MIP is for players with an established baseline of performance that they then significantly exceed. A 2nd year players hasn't had time to establish a level of performance to exceed.

ewing
04-25-2018, 09:22 AM
To me the MIP is for players with an established baseline of performance that they then significantly exceed. A 2nd year players hasn't had time to establish a level of performance to exceed.

What if Ben Simmons comes backwith Steph Curry’s jump shot? Would it be fair to say he improved and is potentially the most improved player


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tredigs
04-25-2018, 09:27 AM
Kanter, Sabonis, Oladipo. Lots of good options... but is it fair to allow those who defected from basketball prison to be eligible along with the rest of the players?

Chronz
04-25-2018, 10:18 AM
Kanter, Sabonis, Oladipo. Lots of good options... but is it fair to allow those who defected from basketball prison to be eligible along with the rest of the players?
Lol. How hilarious would it be if winning mip game a right of passage for every former rwb teammate.

Vinylman
04-25-2018, 11:53 AM
What if Ben Simmons comes backwith Steph Curry’s jump shot? Would it be fair to say he improved and is potentially the most improved player


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sure because it will be his 3rd year

tredigs
04-25-2018, 12:41 PM
What if Ben Simmons comes backwith Steph Curry’s jump shot? Would it be fair to say he improved and is potentially the most improved player


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I'd give him MIP if he comes back with Russell Westbrook's jump shot.

ewing
04-25-2018, 02:21 PM
I'd give him MIP if he comes back with Russell Westbrook's jump shot.

lol

ewing
04-25-2018, 02:22 PM
sure because it will be his 3rd year

don't get warflrg started

Scoots
04-25-2018, 03:13 PM
What if Ben Simmons comes backwith Steph Curry’s jump shot? Would it be fair to say he improved and is potentially the most improved player

But he's not a rookie this year :)

mrblisterdundee
04-25-2018, 05:18 PM
I liked this kid a lot with the Zags and still do but his game hasn’t really improved he is just in a better place for himself. Victor actually became a better basketball player. He deserves it. The more I watch Sabonis the more he he exposes himself imo. Guy has no right hand and has not improved his range thus far. If anything he needs to improve to become more then the bench big people already thought he was.


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Sabonis and Oladipo both escaped Westbrook's suffocating orbit and improved as a result. But Oladipo transformed his body and became all-NBA-level talent.
It'd be interesting to see of the Pacers could beat the Thunder in a playoff series. I think they'd have a pretty good chance.

ewing
04-25-2018, 05:38 PM
Sabonis and Oladipo both escaped Westbrook's suffocating orbit and improved as a result. But Oladipo transformed his body and became all-NBA-level talent.
It'd be interesting to see of the Pacers could beat the Thunder in a playoff series. I think they'd have a pretty good chance.

Sabonis is garbage man. Russ did not limit him. Playing with better bigs that also bang and play inside did. Victor both got better and got away from a ball dominate guard that limited him

JasonJohnHorn
04-25-2018, 06:47 PM
2nd and 3rd year players shouldnt even be included for MIP.


Saric should be a slightly distant 2nd

:eyebrow:

Quinnsanity
04-25-2018, 10:08 PM
MIP should never go to players on rookie deals. Never ever. Way more fun to consider the journeymen and second/third contract dudes.

IndyRealist
04-26-2018, 08:04 AM
MIP should never go to players on rookie deals. Never ever. Way more fun to consider the journeymen and second/third contract dudes.

Except you have to go back to 2008 to Hedo Turkoglu to find an MIP that wasn't in his first 4 years. It almost always goes to a guy on his rookie contract, generally in his 3rd or 4th year.

EDIT: I missed Goran Dragic. So that's 2 since 2008.

IndyRealist
04-26-2018, 08:21 AM
Since I'm here anyway, interesting factoid. In the last 20 years, Goran Dragic, Hedo Turkoglu, Jermaine O'Neal, Jalen Rose, and soon Victor Oladipo will have won MIP after their first four years. O'Neal, Rose, and Oladipo won those awards after coming to Indiana. The Pacers have FIVE of the last 20 MIP winners, including Paul George and Danny Granger.

ewing
04-26-2018, 08:26 AM
Since I'm here anyway, interesting factoid. In the last 20 years, Goran Dragic, Hedo Turkoglu, Jermaine O'Neal, Jalen Rose, and soon Victor Oladipo will have won MIP after their first four years. O'Neal, Rose, and Oladipo won those awards after coming to Indiana. The Pacers have FIVE of the last 20 MIP winners, including Paul George and Danny Granger.


Interesting, I didn't realize Rose's production jumped so much after his first 5 years. Any idea why? I do remember O'neal being buried in Portland and wondered if they had any idea what they were leaving on the bench. Good post. We should dig in to these MIPs

IndyRealist
04-26-2018, 08:43 AM
Interesting, I didn't realize Rose's production jumped so much after his first 5 years. Any idea why? I do remember O'neal being buried in Portland and wondered if they had any idea what they were leaving on the bench. Good post. We should dig in to these MIPs

Jalen won the award in 2000, which is the year he became a starter and Indiana finished with the best record in the East and went to the Finals, losing to the Lakers 4-2.

TheDish87
04-26-2018, 08:45 AM
:eyebrow:

way to single out a sentence and ignore the rest that clearly said i expect mostly 2nd years players to be voted. my opinion of how voting should work has nothing to do with who get votes based off the rule, the same way Simmons sitting last year shouldnt impact anyones ROY voting.

Vinylman
04-26-2018, 09:02 AM
don't get warflrg started

triggering is what PSD is all about my man

Scoots
04-26-2018, 11:00 AM
Since I'm here anyway, interesting factoid. In the last 20 years, Goran Dragic, Hedo Turkoglu, Jermaine O'Neal, Jalen Rose, and soon Victor Oladipo will have won MIP after their first four years. O'Neal, Rose, and Oladipo won those awards after coming to Indiana. The Pacers have FIVE of the last 20 MIP winners, including Paul George and Danny Granger.

The limit to me should be after 2nd year ... by the 3rd year players are generally who they are going to be ... 2nd year just seems too soon for MIP.

IndyRealist
04-26-2018, 01:28 PM
The limit to me should be after 2nd year ... by the 3rd year players are generally who they are going to be ... 2nd year just seems too soon for MIP.

The vast majority are 3rd and 4th year players. It's very rarely given to a sophomore. I think you have to go back to Monta Ellis in 2007 to get a 2nd year MIP winner.