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valade16
04-16-2018, 02:23 PM
Post your thoughts/comments/whatever you want here.

GREATNESS ONE
04-16-2018, 06:45 PM
Hiiiiiiiii

Shammyguy3
04-16-2018, 07:00 PM
Rules seem fine with me, except I'm wondering how will FA work? first come first serve? will we have cap?

Raps08-09 Champ
04-16-2018, 08:14 PM
"You canít circumvent the rules by starting a guy and yanking him after 5 minutes to subvert the rule. Starters from 60-79 must start at least 24 minutes."

Are we allowed to split the minutes to 2-3 different positions? Ie Unseld plays 15 mins at PF and 15 mins at C. The rule last draft was that they had to play 24 mins in the same position, which is unrealistic considering no one plays 1 position anymore.

valade16
04-17-2018, 11:40 AM
"You canít circumvent the rules by starting a guy and yanking him after 5 minutes to subvert the rule. Starters from 60-79 must start at least 24 minutes."

Are we allowed to split the minutes to 2-3 different positions? Ie Unseld plays 15 mins at PF and 15 mins at C. The rule last draft was that they had to play 24 mins in the same position, which is unrealistic considering no one plays 1 position anymore.

I looked at that year's game and I think it was more of a problem because of how restrictive the rules were (you needed 2 old starters and if a person played a single game in the next decade they counted as that decade) so it was a bigger problem.

Only having to start 1 player from the 60-70's should eliminate that problem since there are more than 25 starters from those eras that regularly start in these (I went back and counted).

But I will change the rule to say "One starter from 60-79 must start at least 24 minutes" so if you want to start two from that era and have one play 16 and 16 they can.

dhopisthename
04-17-2018, 03:34 PM
just a suggestion, but I think these things have long needed a total time skipped so that a singular person can't make everyone wait 12+ hours of game time not including the time lost when the timer isn't running. Just something like 9 hours so that if they miss the first two rounds then they are then on auto skip for the rest of the game. Also, your first 30 minutes that you get to pick wouldn't count towards the

Also, how about instead of Prime years determining what era someone is qualified for, what about they have to have spent 75% of their playing career in that perspective time era. For instance using your criteria then Marques Johnson https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsma01.html counts as a 70's guy. Obviously he doesn't matter, but just one example of a player who could easily count as a 70's guy despite mostly playing in the 80's.

valade16
04-17-2018, 04:31 PM
just a suggestion, but I think these things have long needed a total time skipped so that a singular person can't make everyone wait 12+ hours of game time not including the time lost when the timer isn't running. Just something like 9 hours so that if they miss the first two rounds then they are then on auto skip for the rest of the game. Also, your first 30 minutes that you get to pick wouldn't count towards the

Also, how about instead of Prime years determining what era someone is qualified for, what about they have to have spent 75% of their playing career in that perspective time era. For instance using your criteria then Marques Johnson https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsma01.html counts as a 70's guy. Obviously he doesn't matter, but just one example of a player who could easily count as a 70's guy despite mostly playing in the 80's.

To address your first point, I thought long and hard about that but didn't know how to craft a rule. I didn't even think about a total elapsed time, I think that's a great idea. I'll try to add that in the rules.

To your second point, I also thought about that, I'll look that over and make sure there are no outliers that could be effected.

Shammyguy3
04-17-2018, 04:53 PM
I like that idea, but someone like Shaq played more than 5% of his prime years in the 90s, but most of his career games were in the 00s

Shammyguy3
04-17-2018, 04:54 PM
Also, how about we institute actual rules.

I.e. this game will have the following officiating

Hand check is allowed
Zone defense is allowed

valade16
04-17-2018, 05:04 PM
Also, how about we institute actual rules.

I.e. this game will have the following officiating

Hand check is allowed
Zone defense is allowed

I'd be open to that idea, but I'm not sure which era of rules people would want to play with or if they'd all agree on a set of rules that is best.

My idea in past redrafts was that the higher seeded team gets to determine which eras rules we play by (we could designate which eras rules you can pick from), but nobody seemed to like that idea lol

Shammyguy3
04-17-2018, 05:25 PM
With the pace and space and crazy 3 point rates, hand checking will offset it a bit and give more value to defenders of yesteryear

NYKalltheway
04-17-2018, 05:38 PM
Also, how about we institute actual rules.

I.e. this game will have the following officiating

Hand check is allowed
Zone defense is allowed

Please. And no defensive 3 seconds in the key.

That will finally make write ups meaningful and not just 3-4 people posting essays with numbers on them :D

Shammyguy3
04-17-2018, 07:28 PM
Please. And no defensive 3 seconds in the key.

That will finally make write ups meaningful and not just 3-4 people posting essays with numbers on them :D

No def 3 sec is crazy.

NYKalltheway
04-17-2018, 07:37 PM
No def 3 sec is crazy.

the 60s and the 70s were crazy times :)

Raps08-09 Champ
04-17-2018, 10:02 PM
I looked at that year's game and I think it was more of a problem because of how restrictive the rules were (you needed 2 old starters and if a person played a single game in the next decade they counted as that decade) so it was a bigger problem.

Only having to start 1 player from the 60-70's should eliminate that problem since there are more than 25 starters from those eras that regularly start in these (I went back and counted).

But I will change the rule to say "One starter from 60-79 must start at least 24 minutes" so if you want to start two from that era and have one play 16 and 16 they can.

The biggest problem I had was that Ebbs said you needed to play your starter at least 24 minutes in that 1 position. The concern (a fair one) was that someone might start a guy for 1 minute at SF then "hide" him for 23 minutes as backup SG but that rule was only clarified AFTER the draft started.

Wasn't thrilled given that I drafted Melo and wanted to play a good chuck of his minutes as PF even though he was my starting SF (pretty sure Melo has probably played 50% of his minutes at PF and 50% SF in most of these games).

I suggest a guy has to play 28 minutes but he needs to play a certain % of his minutes at the position he starts in. Ie he needs to play 28 minutes and but a minimum of 18 mins at the position he starts in.

valade16
04-17-2018, 11:20 PM
The biggest problem I had was that Ebbs said you needed to play your starter at least 24 minutes in that 1 position. The concern (a fair one) was that someone might start a guy for 1 minute at SF then "hide" him for 23 minutes as backup SG but that rule was only clarified AFTER the draft started.

Wasn't thrilled given that I drafted Melo and wanted to play a good chuck of his minutes as PF even though he was my starting SF (pretty sure Melo has probably played 50% of his minutes at PF and 50% SF in most of these games).

I suggest a guy has to play 28 minutes but he needs to play a certain % of his minutes at the position he starts in. Ie he needs to play 28 minutes and but a minimum of 18 mins at the position he starts in.

Well in the case of Melo you could do that because he's not a 60-79 player. This rule only affects your first 60-79 starter, so for everyone else you can go nuts and start them however you want.

dhopisthename
04-18-2018, 01:57 AM
To address your first point, I thought long and hard about that but didn't know how to craft a rule. I didn't even think about a total elapsed time, I think that's a great idea. I'll try to add that in the rules.

To your second point, I also thought about that, I'll look that over and make sure there are no outliers that could be effected.
yeah, you just know that people will use 80's guys as much as they can for the 70's guys and maybe not use the best prime just to make the rules work. If you are ok with that, then its no big deal, but don't be surprised when it happens

I like that idea, but someone like Shaq played more than 5% of his prime years in the 90s, but most of his career games were in the 00s

I think shaq is a decent example of someone I would like to be a 2000's guy just because he is a name that I think most people on this forum can remember watching or hearing about. However you can if needed easily get an all time great player from his orlando days. Again if this is something you guys want then so be it.

valade16
04-18-2018, 12:52 PM
yeah, you just know that people will use 80's guys as much as they can for the 70's guys and maybe not use the best prime just to make the rules work. If you are ok with that, then its no big deal, but don't be surprised when it happens

I think shaq is a decent example of someone I would like to be a 2000's guy just because he is a name that I think most people on this forum can remember watching or hearing about. However you can if needed easily get an all time great player from his orlando days. Again if this is something you guys want then so be it.

What if I just create a list of which era players can be used for? Would that make it easier and eliminate any arguments?

Raps08-09 Champ
04-18-2018, 06:36 PM
Well in the case of Melo you could do that because he's not a 60-79 player. This rule only affects your first 60-79 starter, so for everyone else you can go nuts and start them however you want.

What abiut a guy like Unseld? Can you still split his minutes as long as he plays 24 total or do I need to play him at his starting position for 24 mins. Cuz if I want to play him 26 mins, not exactly practical to play him 24 at pf and 2 at c

dhopisthename
04-18-2018, 07:15 PM
What if I just create a list of which era players can be used for? Would that make it easier and eliminate any arguments?

this is probably a good idea. it would just make it so everyone knew exactly where a player qualifies for and there isn't any confusion. if you decide to it, I wouldn't mind helping out.

valade16
04-18-2018, 11:32 PM
What abiut a guy like Unseld? Can you still split his minutes as long as he plays 24 total or do I need to play him at his starting position for 24 mins. Cuz if I want to play him 26 mins, not exactly practical to play him 24 at pf and 2 at c

But playing him 13 minutes at PF then 13 minutes at C just doesn't really seem like the spirit of having to start an older player does it? The intent is they have to play significant minutes. I think there's enough good older guys that you'd want to start and play whoever you draft for 24 minutes straight. I looked through those clubhouses and I didn't see a single player outside an older one that didn't play at least 24 minutes at a single position.

How does everyone else feel about this? If I'm being unreasonably strict I'll gladly defer.

Shammyguy3
04-19-2018, 11:17 AM
But playing him 13 minutes at PF then 13 minutes at C just doesn't really seem like the spirit of having to start an older player does it? The intent is they have to play significant minutes. I think there's enough good older guys that you'd want to start and play whoever you draft for 24 minutes straight. I looked through those clubhouses and I didn't see a single player outside an older one that didn't play at least 24 minutes at a single position.

How does everyone else feel about this? If I'm being unreasonably strict I'll gladly defer.

I don't think there needs to be a position restriction. Minutes restriction I'm fine with

valade16
04-19-2018, 12:27 PM
What abiut a guy like Unseld? Can you still split his minutes as long as he plays 24 total or do I need to play him at his starting position for 24 mins. Cuz if I want to play him 26 mins, not exactly practical to play him 24 at pf and 2 at c


I don't think there needs to be a position restriction. Minutes restriction I'm fine with

Alright, how does this sound for the rule?

"You must start one player from the 60-79 era and they must play at least 30 minutes total in the game and must start 20 minutes at their position"

Is that fair or still too much?

Shammyguy3
04-19-2018, 05:16 PM
That still has a position restriction lol

valade16
04-19-2018, 05:21 PM
That still has a position restriction lol

It does, but you have to understand (as this problem came up last game) if there is no position restriction someone would get around having to start an older player by playing them:

PG: Starter
SG: Starter
SF: Current Starter | 60's player 8 minutes
PF: 60's player 10 minutes | current backup
C: Current Starter | 60's player 6 minutes

Now you've played the 60's player the required amount of minutes except it looks like you are having a current player playing the majority of the time at every position. The intent of the rule is to force you to have the 60's-70's player be a key component of your starting lineup. You have to incorporate an older guy.

Eliminating the position restriction means people will try to "hide" their older guy to get the benefit of defacto starting an additional current guy.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-19-2018, 09:55 PM
Alright, how does this sound for the rule?

"You must start one player from the 60-79 era and they must play at least 30 minutes total in the game and must start 20 minutes at their position"

Is that fair or still too much?

I'll take that. But maybe closer to like 28 mins minimum and 16 minutes at 1 position they start in. Just because a lot of older players probably should be sliding down anyway because of their height.

valade16
04-19-2018, 11:47 PM
I think I'm going to go with a preset era designation for every player on a google.docs list that I will post in the rules thread. Just makes it easier and there will be less arguments about it from people trying to game the system.

The other rule I'm contemplating is instead of allowing only 2 from an era, allowing up to 3 from an era but you cannot start more than 2 current players. So you could have 3 00's and beyond guys.

What do people think of that?

Shammyguy3
04-20-2018, 10:30 AM
I think I'm going to go with a preset era designation for every player on a google.docs list that I will post in the rules thread. Just makes it easier and there will be less arguments about it from people trying to game the system.

The other rule I'm contemplating is instead of allowing only 2 from an era, allowing up to 3 from an era but you cannot start more than 2 current players. So you could have 3 00's and beyond guys.

What do people think of that?

Love the idea of having a designated era for every player.

Do not like the idea of having 3 00s and beyond guys.


At this point, we should be able to have a rule that says: "Cannot start more than 1 active player, and cannot have more than 2 00s guys beyond."

dhopisthename
04-20-2018, 02:38 PM
yeah if the goal is to have diversity and to force teams to play oldies then I think two 2000's guys is enough. in fact I think something like you have to have a 60's to 79 guy and you can't start more then 2 2000's guys would be enough. In other words if you want to have a team full of 60's and 70s guys that is fine cause your team would probably be terrible.

Dunkapolooza
04-21-2018, 07:47 PM
I'm not sure if this is finalized but peak years is definitely the best way to determine era. I mean that peak is the player you are selling to voters. Makes no sense to me to base a players era on games you're not even using.

GREATNESS ONE
04-21-2018, 08:45 PM
When do we get the draft order? Iím an extremely busy man and would love to know where I pick in the draft so I can start making my big board.


Also, cool to give you my # so you can text me when Iím on the clock

valade16
04-21-2018, 10:05 PM
When do we get the draft order? Iím an extremely busy man and would love to know where I pick in the draft so I can start making my big board.


Also, cool to give you my # so you can text me when Iím on the clock

As soon as everyone creates their clubhouses Iíll randomize the draft prder.

You can either pm me uour # or post it, Iíll text when your up.

Quinnsanity
04-21-2018, 11:03 PM
You guys still need another body? I'll play if you guys want me.

valade16
04-22-2018, 03:36 PM
You guys still need another body? I'll play if you guys want me.

Absolutely! The draft doesnít officially start until the 28th (Saturday).

Go create a clubhouse!

Redrum187
04-23-2018, 08:29 AM
So do we still get to pick the 3 year prime? Could I use "baby" Shaq (which is essentially equal to LA Shaq statistically, only more agile) making him a 90's era instead of 00's?

valade16
04-23-2018, 12:50 PM
So do we still get to pick the 3 year prime? Could I use "baby" Shaq (which is essentially equal to LA Shaq statistically, only more agile) making him a 90's era instead of 00's?

No, I will be posting a Google Docs spreadsheet with what era each player counts as hopefully tomorrow. Shaq will be a 00's player.

Quinnsanity
04-23-2018, 01:09 PM
No, I will be posting a Google Docs spreadsheet with what era each player counts as hopefully tomorrow. Shaq will be a 00's player.

How far are you gonna go with that? Just the first round guys? Or basically anyone that might be drafted?

valade16
04-23-2018, 02:23 PM
How far are you gonna go with that? Just the first round guys? Or basically anyone that might be drafted?

Anyone that may be drafted. The era restrictions for backups are more lenient than starters.

Quinnsanity
04-23-2018, 02:25 PM
Anyone that may be drafted. The era restrictions for backups are more lenient than starters.

That also gives people a cheat sheet when they're panicking on who to draft. I'd say the best thing to do with that spreadsheet would either not to post it, and have people PM when they are unsure, or at least post it alphabetically so people can't just look at it and say "oh, player X is the 36th guy on this list and I'm picking 36th and don't know who to take, so I'll take this guy."

valade16
04-23-2018, 02:51 PM
That also gives people a cheat sheet when they're panicking on who to draft. I'd say the best thing to do with that spreadsheet would either not to post it, and have people PM when they are unsure, or at least post it alphabetically so people can't just look at it and say "oh, player X is the 36th guy on this list and I'm picking 36th and don't know who to take, so I'll take this guy."

Good idea! It will be alphabetical.

AI
04-24-2018, 03:55 PM
Hi fellas

valade16
04-24-2018, 04:36 PM
Hi fellas

Awesome of youto join us!

GREATNESS ONE
04-24-2018, 05:07 PM
Hi fellas

Trades!

valade16
04-24-2018, 05:10 PM
Waiting on 3 other people that expressed interest. Iím giving them until tomorrow then Iím going to randomly get the draft order and post the results along with the era designations.

The clock wonít officially start until the 28th but people can make their picks early if they so desire (as well as trade).

GREATNESS ONE
04-24-2018, 11:05 PM
How many teams we at V?

AI
04-25-2018, 02:15 AM
Awesome of youto join us!

Yeah works been hectic lately finally was able to get on.


Trades!

You know Iím making at least 50... Worst team to top team after a few trades then I make another trade that puts me over the cap, I get DQíd then I yell at Shammy, all is well Iím back in it and I eliminate UTB in the first round.

valade16
04-25-2018, 10:22 AM
I have posted the link to the Google Doc with the Era designations for the players. Look at it and if you have any disagreements, know anyone I forgot to include, or if there is anyone on there twice, let me know!

valade16
04-25-2018, 10:49 AM
I posted a Chatzy so people can go and discuss the draft/game. If anyone has a premium Chatzy account (or knows a better chat site we should use), let me know and I'll swap it out.

valade16
04-25-2018, 12:29 PM
I have posted the draft order! Go look at your spot so you can plan your strategy accordingly!

GREATNESS ONE
04-25-2018, 12:42 PM
17th pick!?!? Rigged! And how you going to get a top 5 pick! Rigged I say! Lol

mngopher35
04-25-2018, 12:53 PM
my bad didn't know we were starting, lemme check rules quick and I will pick

mngopher35
04-25-2018, 01:13 PM
Ok read the message and it looks like I wasn't holding it up we just started lol and no clock yet. I still plan to pick this afternoon but will be an hour or two probably. Open to trading, send pm's Ill respond after lunch.

GREATNESS ONE
04-25-2018, 01:20 PM
Ok read the message and it looks like I wasn't holding it up we just started lol and no clock yet. I still plan to pick this afternoon but will be an hour or two probably. Open to trading, send pm's Ill respond after lunch.

My 1st and second pick for your 1st?

Quinnsanity
04-25-2018, 01:25 PM
My 1st and second pick for your 1st?

I have No. 2 overall. I'm open to moving down.

NYKalltheway
04-25-2018, 01:51 PM
I never get top 5 picks :( last is okay i guess, iirc i had a similar pick last time.

mngopher35
04-25-2018, 03:55 PM
My 1st and second pick for your 1st?

sent a pm

So everyone knows I would prefer to trade the pick and am waiting on a couple pm's so if you are interested and I haven't reached out please message me soon.

roshan3ai
04-25-2018, 03:56 PM
Are we doing the yr primes, one yr primes, give yr primes? What era does the game take place in?

mngopher35
04-25-2018, 04:02 PM
Are we doing the yr primes, one yr primes, give yr primes? What era does the game take place in?

V16: I figured that nobody really follows that anyway, so it's just people's personal beliefs about who is and is not better. Whether you incorporate peak/career/accolades/etc.

Valade's answer in the chat, just asked the same question about if we use 1, 3, 5 year primes or whatever lol. So no criteria just a general sense of how good player is.

Edit: I would assume current rules but don't know for sure tbh

Quinnsanity
04-25-2018, 07:43 PM
Looks like I'm staying at No. 2, but I want a second first round pick. I'm happy anywhere in the round, as I have a 19-player list I'm working off of and because this is a PSD draft one of them will be available late. I'll give my 2nd, 3rd and low 6th for a mid/low 1st, high 6th and 8th. First responder gets the deal. Lucky you.

Mr. Baller
04-25-2018, 09:36 PM
Life. Death. Rosh getting a top 5 pick.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-25-2018, 10:00 PM
Can we do a redo in the draft order? I wasn't paying attention.

NYKalltheway
04-26-2018, 11:27 AM
where did my back to back picks go? :(

AI
04-26-2018, 02:53 PM
Hereís my # guys... MSG me on whatsapp when Iím on deck or OTC since Iíll probably be working a lot this week. Iíll get on as soon as I see it and make my pick.

787-603-2357

Lakers + Giants
04-27-2018, 10:39 PM
No draft picks made in 36 hours? wow. this game is already dead lmao

Dunkapolooza
04-27-2018, 11:27 PM
Just the one pick holding people up. A lot of people below him have definitely showed interest. Idk if he didn't know it was starting yet or what. Certainly sucks though.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-28-2018, 12:10 AM
I believe R4L usually gets skipped in the draft at some point each year. Hasnt been on in 3 days it looks like.

Dunkapolooza
04-28-2018, 12:30 AM
Lol well ****. How quickly can we skip him under the rules?

GREATNESS ONE
04-28-2018, 12:56 AM
Immediately! Lol

GREATNESS ONE
04-28-2018, 12:57 AM
Trades!

dhopisthename
04-28-2018, 01:37 AM
Need valade to confirm, but I think we can skip him at 1pm est tomorrow.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-28-2018, 11:04 AM
Yea he said in the chatzy in "2 hours". I think he posted sometime just before 11am EST.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-28-2018, 11:05 AM
Sent Valade a list. Do not skip me.

GREATNESS ONE
04-28-2018, 11:09 AM
Sent Valade a list. Do not skip me.

Skipped!

Redrum187
04-28-2018, 07:14 PM
Skipped!

Hi bae... I'm going to get some barbacoa tacos tonight. I'll be thinking of you. <3

GREATNESS ONE
04-28-2018, 11:12 PM
Hi bae... I'm going to get some barbacoa tacos tonight. I'll be thinking of you. <3

:love:

NYKalltheway
04-29-2018, 03:22 PM
Sorry for the delay. And for not sending a list earlier. Too many options here. I have 7 players on watch but only one center so figured I had to secure an elite big first.

NYKalltheway
04-29-2018, 03:31 PM
Ah, Dr J was my priority here. Went with D-Wade, not too disappointed.

valade16
04-29-2018, 03:34 PM
Ah, Dr J was my priority here. Went with D-Wade, not too disappointed.

Wade was a great value pick and a nice pairing next to Ewing.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-29-2018, 05:06 PM
Someone did Wade-Ewing once. They broke it up I think though.

Jeffy25
04-29-2018, 05:40 PM
crap in a hat, I missed my first pick

When will it be time for the second?

Raps08-09 Champ
04-29-2018, 05:44 PM
You can make your 1st pick anytime you want.

You check the draft thread to see when you pick next. You shoulkd be told via VM but send a list if you are nearby.

Mr. Baller
04-29-2018, 07:05 PM
Both my guys OTB. **** me was away for the weekend wanted Pippen bad.

NYKalltheway
04-29-2018, 09:11 PM
and here I was thinking that we'd cruise through the 2nd round by the end of the day.

Raps08-09 Champ
04-29-2018, 09:14 PM
People don't realize you need to give up your life when you play this game.

NYKalltheway
04-29-2018, 09:20 PM
People don't realize you need to give up your life when you play this game.

Or simply use your phone every once in a while :D

Redrum187
04-29-2018, 10:19 PM
So is Lucky skipped? Am I otc?

valade16
04-29-2018, 10:21 PM
So is Lucky skipped? Am I otc?

Lucky is not skipped until 9:17 am tomorrow morning (Eastern time).

Quinnsanity
04-29-2018, 11:40 PM
If someone has an active skip, they are skipped immediately, correct? Like if one of the people who was skipped in the first round comes up, they are skipped automatically, correct? Because we've got some coming up.

Shammyguy3
04-30-2018, 01:25 PM
correct

NYKalltheway
04-30-2018, 01:43 PM
I was hoping either Webber or Grant Hill would last to my pick. I'm a bit surprised (pleasantly) that not many active players are picked already.

Quinnsanity
04-30-2018, 04:41 PM
Heads up ahead of time: I will be at a conference all day Thursday, and generally only semi-available Wednesday and Friday (flying). I will do my best to send in lists, but at the pace we're going I'm worried we won't be close enough to where I'm picking by Wednesday night for that to be possible. Apologies in advance if I end up holding up the draft for a bit.

NYKalltheway
05-01-2018, 04:35 AM
Sorry for delaying you all. I was 10 picks away when I logged off and figured it would be enough. And I couldnt really make an 11 player list at that point.
Wanted Nate Thurmond or Mark Price though.

Super.
05-01-2018, 12:37 PM
Any dead teams?

Mr. Baller
05-01-2018, 12:49 PM
Any dead teams?

My team is drawing dead

Quinnsanity
05-01-2018, 03:38 PM
Question on a rule:

"You canít circumvent the rules by starting a guy and yanking him after 5 minutes to subvert the rule. At least one starter from 60-79 must play at least 30 minutes and must start at least 20 minutes."

Just want to be clear about this means. What does it mean to play a player at least 30 minutes and start him at least 20? Is this a typo? Should we just assume that starters have to play a minimum of 30 minutes and that every team needs a pre-79 starter?

mngopher35
05-01-2018, 03:54 PM
mngopher: so does the era rule thing mean guy has to play at position he starts for 20 mins and play 30 total?

V16: Start 20 mins and play a totla of 30. So start 20 mins at sG, bAckup 10 at sf

So basically you have tostart them for at least 20 minutes at their position and play them 30 total (last 10 can be backing up somewhere else but have to play 30).

Quinnsanity
05-01-2018, 03:55 PM
mngopher: so does the era rule thing mean guy has to play at position he starts for 20 mins and play 30 total?

V16: Start 20 mins and play a totla of 30. So start 20 mins at sG, bAckup 10 at sf

So basically you have tostart them for at least 20 minutes at their position and play them 30 total (last 10 can be backing up somewhere else but have to play 30).

Oh ok cool. Yea that makes sense, thanks.

Super.
05-01-2018, 05:10 PM
My team is drawing dead

Do you want me to jump in with you?

Mr. Baller
05-01-2018, 09:30 PM
Do you want me to jump in with you?

of course

KnicksorBust
05-01-2018, 10:41 PM
So many good teams. Good luck making rankings! :)

Quinnsanity
05-01-2018, 11:00 PM
So many good teams. Good luck making rankings! :)

You gonna be chiming in on any specifics? Would love some thoughts after I finish out my starting 5 tonight/tomorrow.

Shammyguy3
05-01-2018, 11:28 PM
So many good teams. Good luck making rankings! :)

Good luck with your PRs ;)

NYKalltheway
05-02-2018, 03:51 AM
Can we trade our FA picks?

unleashthebeast
05-02-2018, 12:21 PM
Yep. Valade said so in the chatzy last night

Quinnsanity
05-02-2018, 01:33 PM
Did UTB just get Paul Pierce for free?

KnicksorBust
05-02-2018, 05:26 PM
So many good teams. Good luck making rankings! :)

Good luck with your PRs ;)

Lol you know I would love to just need my twins to pass out early. My wife to leave me alone. Annnnnd a nice six pack.

NYKalltheway
05-02-2018, 06:20 PM
sent a list, hope Valade decrypts it lol.

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 04:02 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

mngopher35
05-04-2018, 04:06 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

John Stockton
Rick Barry
Shawn Marion/ Rashard Lewis
Chris Webber /Rashard Lewis
David Robinson /Marcus camby

NYKalltheway
05-04-2018, 04:06 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Depth chart:
PG- Mark Price
SG- Dwyane Wade / Byron Scott
SF- Latrell Sprewell // Bobby Jones
PF- Bobby Jones
C- Patrick Ewing

Dunkapolooza
05-04-2018, 04:08 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Mookie, harden, Carter, worthy, wilt, sikma

killthesux
05-04-2018, 04:10 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Brandon Roy/Michael Finley
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Kevin McHale
C: Nate Thurmond/Yao Ming

Shammyguy3
05-04-2018, 04:13 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Me


PG: Chris Paul -
SG: David Thompson -
SF: Dale Ellis - Gerald Wallace
PF: Dirk Nowitzki -
C: Robert Parish - Arvydas Sabonis

GREATNESS ONE
05-04-2018, 04:36 PM
Mine but my team wonít be complete until this round!

Tyson Chandler/Embiid
Willis Reed/
Artest/
Micheal Jordan

Quinnsanity
05-04-2018, 04:56 PM
Derek Harper/Klay/Bron/Debusschere/Zo

Dame Lillard bench.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-04-2018, 06:10 PM
C - Dave Cowens, Marc Gasol
PF - Tim Duncan, Clifford Robinson
SF - Bruce Bowen
SG - George Gervin
PG - Dennis Johnson, Tony Parker

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 07:54 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

John Stockton
Rick Barry
Shawn Marion/ Rashard Lewis
Chris Webber /Rashard Lewis
David Robinson /Marcus camby

So I will give my gut reaction as contender/bubble/pretender. I worry that all of your players are probably historically underrated but once the playoffs start this team is a contender. From a matchup standpoint you have no weaknesses. Above average shooting, passing, balanced scoring and you can defend 1-5. Big fan.

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 07:59 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Depth chart:
PG- Mark Price
SG- Dwyane Wade / Byron Scott
SF- Latrell Sprewell // Bobby Jones
PF- Bobby Jones
C- Patrick Ewing

Spree starting seems weird but I love the defense and Wade with Ewing makes perfect sense. Ewing's choking rep is overshadowed by Wade's clutch rep. I also like that you have a sniper at PG who can play off the ball and space the floor. Bobby Jones is an underrated all-time great who is an elite defender. Another contender. This has been easy so far lol.

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 08:01 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Mookie, harden, Carter, worthy, wilt, sikma

Bubble. Wilt is too good to miss the playoffs but I hate putting him with high volume scorers like Harden and Vince Carter. I get that this is a fast paced team. You can run like crazy with Worthy at PF and you have shooting. Then if it slows down throw it in to Wilt. I get that but I still don't like the fit and your perimeter defense is suspect and Wilt won't want to foul out so it will be layup central. Half joking but serious about bubble grade.

Mr. Baller
05-04-2018, 08:01 PM
Steve Nash
Clyde Drexler
Jeff Hornacek/Joe Johnson
Jerry Lucas/LaMarcus Aldridge
Chris Bosh

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 08:07 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Brandon Roy/Michael Finley
SF: Kevin Durant
PF: Kevin McHale
C: Nate Thurmond/Yao Ming

Hmmm. Tough. The players around Durant aren't sexy. In a game with the GOATs this team is a little light on name value and I do not like Hardaway at PG at all. A few too many cooks in the kitchen. The plus is that McHale and Thurmond is incredible defensively. Durant and McHale can handle the scoring load. My gut says somewhere between bubble and contender. I do feel like you need to make a move in the backcourt though. I might trade one of your Cs. See who gets a better return.

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 08:09 PM
Steve Nash
Clyde Drexler
Jeff Hornacek/Joe Johnson
Jerry Lucas/LaMarcus Aldridge
Chris Bosh

Pretender.

KnicksorBust
05-04-2018, 08:14 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Me


PG: Chris Paul -
SG: David Thompson -
SF: Dale Ellis - Gerald Wallace
PF: Dirk Nowitzki -
C: Robert Parish - Arvydas Sabonis

Its funny bc this reminds me of the mookie harden carter team but only this team feels like a better fit. Paul will clearly run the show and play 2man game with Dirk. Ellis is one of the best shooters of all-time. Thompson is your secondary playmaker. Parish is a low post threat. I also love Sabonis off the bench. I am almost tempted to tell you to trade Parish and upgrade the backcourt just so you can have the best perimeter shooting PF/C combo of all-time. Lol. Either way this team is a contender.

Lucky.
05-04-2018, 08:16 PM
Terry Porter
Kobe Bryant
Scottie Pippen - Bernard King
Amaríe Stoudemire - Jermaine OíNeal
Artis Gilmore - Brad Daugherty

mightybosstone
05-04-2018, 08:17 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Now THIS is a guy who will appreciate KG and understand his defensive versatility.

PG: Walt Frazier / Gilbert Arenas
SG: "Thunder" Dan Majerle / Manu Ginobili
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Shawn Kemp
C: Kevin Garnett

Redrum187
05-04-2018, 08:53 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

PG: Oscar Robertson
SG: Penny Hardaway
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Horace Grant - Andrei Kirilenko
C: Dwight Howard - Joakim Noah

Shammyguy3
05-05-2018, 01:25 PM
Its funny bc this reminds me of the mookie harden carter team but only this team feels like a better fit. Paul will clearly run the show and play 2man game with Dirk. Ellis is one of the best shooters of all-time. Thompson is your secondary playmaker. Parish is a low post threat. I also love Sabonis off the bench. I am almost tempted to tell you to trade Parish and upgrade the backcourt just so you can have the best perimeter shooting PF/C combo of all-time. Lol. Either way this team is a contender.

Thank you sir!

AI
05-05-2018, 03:21 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Late to the party, but hereís mine...

PG Isiah Thomas
SG Mitch Richmond - Doug Christie
SF Larry Bird
PF Elvin Hayes - Lamar Odom
C Dikembe Mutombo - DeAndre Jordan

GREATNESS ONE
05-05-2018, 06:14 PM
Realizing I will probably never have the time to do full PRs but would be happy to give feedback to the first 5 GMs to quote this and post their team.

Mark Jackson/Gail Goodrich
Micheal Jordan/Kyle Korver
Artest
Willis Reed
Tyson Chandler/Joel Embiid

NYKalltheway
05-05-2018, 06:29 PM
How will FA work?

Dunkapolooza
05-05-2018, 07:37 PM
Bubble. Wilt is too good to miss the playoffs but I hate putting him with high volume scorers like Harden and Vince Carter. I get that this is a fast paced team. You can run like crazy with Worthy at PF and you have shooting. Then if it slows down throw it in to Wilt. I get that but I still don't like the fit and your perimeter defense is suspect and Wilt won't want to foul out so it will be layup central. Half joking but serious about bubble grade.

I don't know what you mean by wilt won't want to foul out? He's never fouled out of a game his entire career. He averaged less than two fouls a game? Did you mean he wouldn't try and block many shots?

Compared to Carter and harden coming at the opponents defense I don't understand how fouling out is a concern?

I don't have any truly elite defenders I get that. All my players score at such an absurdly effecient rate I figure my defense will never have to be as good as my opponents is the hope.

GREATNESS ONE
05-05-2018, 08:15 PM
Wilnt Capela

valade16
05-05-2018, 08:20 PM
FREE AGENCY WILL START TOMORROW AT 1 PM EASTERN TIME!!

Everyone go to the Rules thread and check out the rules for Free Agency.

I have also created the FA and Add/Drop thread. Check out the rules and be ready tomorrow!

KnicksorBust
05-05-2018, 08:44 PM
Bubble. Wilt is too good to miss the playoffs but I hate putting him with high volume scorers like Harden and Vince Carter. I get that this is a fast paced team. You can run like crazy with Worthy at PF and you have shooting. Then if it slows down throw it in to Wilt. I get that but I still don't like the fit and your perimeter defense is suspect and Wilt won't want to foul out so it will be layup central. Half joking but serious about bubble grade.

I don't know what you mean by wilt won't want to foul out? He's never fouled out of a game his entire career. He averaged less than two fouls a game? Did you mean he wouldn't try and block many shots?

Compared to Carter and harden coming at the opponents defense I don't understand how fouling out is a concern?

I don't have any truly elite defenders I get that. All my players score at such an absurdly effecient rate I figure my defense will never have to be as good as my opponents is the hope.

Exactly mother ****er. Wilt never fouled out bc he is an *******. It is impossible to hold that record without being a piece of ****. He and Harden and both pussbags. Your should call your team pos central or puss Boulevard.

valade16
05-05-2018, 08:45 PM
Pretty much every team asked KoB for an analysis lol. Seems like this game is in desperate need of Power Rankings. Anyone want to give it a go?

Raps08-09 Champ
05-05-2018, 08:50 PM
Exactly mother ****er. Wilt never fouled out bc he is an *******. It is impossible to hold that record without being a piece of ****. He and Harden and both pussbags. Your should call your team pos central or puss Boulevard.

Don't be so mean to Valade's dupe.

GREATNESS ONE
05-05-2018, 10:53 PM
Exactly mother ****er. Wilt never fouled out bc he is an *******. It is impossible to hold that record without being a piece of ****. He and Harden and both pussbags. Your should call your team pos central or puss Boulevard.

:laugh2:

Quinnsanity
05-06-2018, 12:58 AM
DeBusschere guarded Wilt. He'll be fine against any PF. They, on the other hand, won't be fine with him.

For real though, the PRs were solid Valade. I'm gonna try my hand at a top-five/10/I'll see how far I go.

Dunkapolooza
05-06-2018, 01:34 AM
Lmao what. Wilt reportedly had over twenty blocks on multiple occasions. I mean are trying to say wilt is not an elite rim protector? Cause it seems like what youre saying is that wilt was simply too good to be believed. Lol. Despite the facts, footage and testimony.

Ya know harden has had a better dbpm the last two years than dumars has had his entire career? Then Gary Payton's career every year but one? Every year of Cooper's but one? Then Kobe byrants entire career but one?

Yeah harden may be a ***** and aggravating tonwatch but he's going to put whoever guards him in foul trouble, score 30 plus, and still have a positive box plus minus on defense.

valade16
05-06-2018, 01:40 AM
DeBusschere guarded Wilt. He'll be fine against any PF. They, on the other hand, won't be fine with him.

For real though, the PRs were solid Valade. I'm gonna try my hand at a top-five/10/I'll see how far I go.

Cunningham is not a starter in this yet he played at the same time as Dave DeBusschere and made the All-NBA team over DeBusschere lol.

Thanks for the analysis on everyone!

Dunkapolooza
05-06-2018, 01:42 AM
Dave guarded wilt lmao. Guarded as in he was under the rim to be hit by the ball after wilt dunked it. In the first 22 games they played wilt scored 50 points ten times. That's almost a fifty percent chance he scores fifty. In that span wilt never scored less than 20. He averaged 28 against Dave for b their careers. That's better than some of these teams best scorer.

Dave cannot guard wilt.

Quinnsanity
05-06-2018, 01:53 AM
Dave guarded wilt lmao. Guarded as in he was under the rim to be hit by the ball after wilt dunked it. In the first 22 games they played wilt scored 50 points ten times. That's almost a fifty percent chance he scores fifty. In that span wilt never scored less than 20. He averaged 28 against Dave for b their careers. That's better than some of these teams best scorer.

Dave cannot guard wilt.

Settle down, I have Alonzo Mourning and he'd handle Wilt if that matchup ever came to pass. I am speaking in historical fact when it comes to DeBusschere handling bigger players. Willis guarded Wilt most of the time. But in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals when Willis was hobbled, DeBusschere held Wilt to 21 and the Knicks won the title. He'll be fine against any PF this game has to offer. Duncan is the only one that has me even slightly concerned. Maybe Malone.

But it's nice to know you have a shred of objectivity about your own players. Next you're gonna tell me Vince Carter can guard LeBron, right?

Lakers + Giants
05-06-2018, 02:23 AM
G1, Valade, Quinn, and Dhop. Appreciate the PRs.

PatsSoxKnicks
05-06-2018, 02:30 AM
Another really thoughtfully constructed team down to the fact that Manu is hiding on the bench here, but shooting is my biggest issue since Thunder Dan really tends to get overrated in that respect.

Appreciate the power rankings and of course being included in the top 5!

Regarding Thunder Dan getting overrated in that respect- what does that mean? I believe we're using 3-year peaks which for Thunder Dan is probably from 92-94. In those 3 years, he shot 38.2% from 3 on 1169 attempts. So that's clearly well above average. I suppose if someone were calling him a knockdown shooter, that'd be overrated. But I'm just not sure what you mean there.

Also, we could use the Golden State version of Iggy which includes his Finals MVP, who until this year was pretty much exactly a league average 3-point shooter. Obviously league average isn't great but it's not someone you're leaving wide open either.

Dunkapolooza
05-06-2018, 03:54 AM
That I can agree with Quin dave is great and can cause problems for most pfs. He served me well in one of these when I paired him with Alonzo. I think that team was Penny, Wade, Paul George, Dave, Zo. Karl would definitely cause problems. Ideally you'd have zo on him anyway though like you said.

But hey, I got to look out for my boy lol. The hate is real next to harden.

Dunkapolooza
05-06-2018, 03:55 AM
And yeah, thanks for the power rankings fellas. Feedback was helpful

Lucky.
05-06-2018, 09:50 AM
Boy, I go to bed with zero PRs to waking up with all these?! Thanks for the time and effort guys, and appreciate your opinions.

Quinnsanity
05-06-2018, 11:35 AM
Appreciate the power rankings and of course being included in the top 5!

Regarding Thunder Dan getting overrated in that respect- what does that mean? I believe we're using 3-year peaks which for Thunder Dan is probably from 92-94. In those 3 years, he shot 38.2% from 3 on 1169 attempts. So that's clearly well above average. I suppose if someone were calling him a knockdown shooter, that'd be overrated. But I'm just not sure what you mean there.

Also, we could use the Golden State version of Iggy which includes his Finals MVP, who until this year was pretty much exactly a league average 3-point shooter. Obviously league average isn't great but it's not someone you're leaving wide open either.

Yea I think Thunder Dan tends to get treated as an elite 3 and D guy in this when heís a shade below. Thatís really all. Itís not a fit issue so much as itís a matter of me liking a player less than others tend to.

NYKalltheway
05-06-2018, 12:20 PM
40 minutes till FA?

GREATNESS ONE
05-06-2018, 12:31 PM
40 minutes till FA?

30m now!

Quinnsanity
05-06-2018, 12:34 PM
Can I dispute Allan Houston's era? He played more games in the 90s than in the 00s...

NYKalltheway
05-06-2018, 12:37 PM
Can I dispute Allan Houston's era? He played more games in the 90s than in the 00s...

I'd consider him 90s as well. He's one of those guys who's pretty much acceptable for both eras I guess.

Redrum187
05-06-2018, 12:57 PM
Hrmm...

NYKalltheway
05-06-2018, 01:00 PM
it's time

Raps08-09 Champ
05-06-2018, 01:30 PM
Nah he was better in 00

valade16
05-06-2018, 01:53 PM
Can I dispute Allan Houston's era? He played more games in the 90s than in the 00s...

You can. After having looked, I am fine with considering Allan Houston in either the 90's or 00's eras.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-06-2018, 03:17 PM
C- Dave Cowens, Marc Gasol
PF- Tim Duncan, George Mikan
SF- Bruce Bowen, Luol Deng
SG- George Gervin, Drazen Petrovic
PG- Dennis Johnson, Tony Parker

mngopher35
05-06-2018, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the PR's everyone who spent the time doing them, maybe it will jump start trade activity

Quinnsanity
05-06-2018, 03:52 PM
You can. After having looked, I am fine with considering Allan Houston in either the 90's or 00's eras.

You are my friend :)

Raidaz4Life
05-06-2018, 04:59 PM
I'm pretty content with my team considering AI was my 1st pick halfway into the 2nd round. Thanks for the PR's guys.

Quinnsanity
05-12-2018, 05:02 PM
SMH at L+Gís stupidity

Shammyguy3
05-12-2018, 07:44 PM
Ill do PRs tonight! I finally have free time

Raps08-09 Champ
05-12-2018, 08:54 PM
SMH at L+Gís stupidity

I am tempted to vote you last just because of how arrogant and annoying you are.

Lakers + Giants
05-12-2018, 10:09 PM
SMH at L+Gís stupidity

can't satisfy everyone. I clearly stated it's just my opinion lmao. Don't know what else to say.

Shammyguy3
05-12-2018, 10:48 PM
LG i always feel you are fair to everyone, its tough to do PRs to begin with, and this year there is a lot more parity than previous ATRDs. Good iob!

Lakers + Giants
05-12-2018, 11:09 PM
LG i always feel you are fair to everyone, its tough to do PRs to begin with, and this year there is a lot more parity than previous ATRDs. Good iob!

Appreciate it! I knew going into it that some would hate the PRs and some would like em. That's the thing about em, everyone's gonna feel different about em. It's just my opinion and I am in know way saying I am correct. I can absolutely be overrating certain teams while underrating others.

Dunkapolooza
05-12-2018, 11:41 PM
" I can absolutely be overrating certain teams while underrating others."....

Clearly not mine though LG. lol.

Lakers + Giants
05-13-2018, 12:08 AM
" I can absolutely be overrating certain teams while underrating others."....

Clearly not mine though LG. lol.:laugh:

I stand by my PRs. But I'm not gonna act like they're perfect. It was just my opnion and still the way i feel now. So yes, I feel like my rankings are correct. But someone else saying they aren't doesn't make them wrong either.

Quinnsanity
05-13-2018, 12:27 AM
can't satisfy everyone. I clearly stated it's just my opinion lmao. Don't know what else to say.

Your argument is essentially ďyou donít have enough star power,Ē which I believe to be literally impossible in this game. With the talent pool in this game, the gap between any two teams that didnít get skipped is going to be relatively small. I have argued every time Iíve played this game, and will continue to argue, that fit and chemistry matter infinitely more in this setting. Itís just kind of common sense. We all have rosters filled almost entirely with All Stars. There are no bad players. Everyone has an alpha. But not everyone built rosters that actually made sense together.

Excuse me for not just stacking a bunch of stars and calling it a day. Iíve been offered Isiah for Klay multiple times. Iíve said no because it just wouldíve been name value instead of actually making my team better. I have pretty undisputedly one of the best defenses in this game (and I believe Iím the only person with five All-Defense level starters, assuming you count Klay as such, but donít quote me on that). I followed an IRL blueprint of LeBron+roller+shooters that clearly works. I built an actual basketball team.

Not one that will win, because there are more talented rosters out there that also make sense. But Iím sorry, itís stupid to suggest that I have one of the worst teams just because ďit feels like my third and fourth round picks are missing.Ē And itís a sad state of affairs that in this game where everyone has a ton of talent, fit (and defense, for that matter) get consistently overlooked. Itís as much a commentary on the state of this game as it is those rankings. Iíd say Iím around the slightly upper tier of the middle. Thatís where most rankings have had me. If you wanted to have me lower, fine, but have better justification for it than seemingly lacking in talent. I mean, if Iíd have taken Rick Barry instead of Klay, then gotten a name value modern 4th rounder instead of filling my 70s slot with an all world defender, my team would be worse. I donít care if the name value would look better. I wanted a basketball team that made sense. A few other people in this game did as well. One of them should win. But, as PSD games tend to go, it is more likely that the person who stacks the most names ultimately will.

Lakers + Giants
05-13-2018, 01:17 AM
If you know how PSD votes based on talent you best believe ima cater to the voters.I think you would've been better off taking talent that still fits around LeBron. You could very well be right that a better team can defeat a super team, we've seen it happen before. I'll still take the superior talent though.

In the end, it's just my opinion and I'm acknowledging that you can be correct, I just personally don't like the team you built. Is it a great team overall? Yes. But like you said, all the teams here are, and out of all of them, I found yours the most DISAPPOINTING, I never said you have "one of the worst teams" like you stated. The order of the teams in the tiers is based on the clubhouses and you're team is one of the last teams in the clubhouse thread. So that might be a misunderstanding as well.

Like I said, It was just my opinion and yes I built my team based on other GMs opinions as well, if im being honest. Why? Because they're the one's that vote. If you don't like my team it's cool. You are correct that I went with talent and did try to take fit into account? It was nothing personal at all. I respect your opinion as I do all other GMs here, you have your right to disagree, and frankly, I would defend my team too if i didn't like my ranking. But in the end my opinion is just that, an opinion, and it means nothing if nobody else agrees because there are 25 teams making votes.

Dunkapolooza
05-13-2018, 02:21 AM
Well that's a strategic choice each gm has to make. Between talent and fit. They are both important. Yes these are all great players. Some greater than others. Ultimately its all decided by votes. Therefore name value inherently matters to some voters. Fit matters more to others. In the actual nba we've seen less talented teams win it all because of fit. We've also seen lots of teams that are not great fit on paper but still won too.

Klay though, man that's tough to sell as the second best guy on your team. Do people even buy him being able to lead a team to the conference finals in the nba today? Maybe you do, maybe others do. It would surprise me to see that. As far as a LeBron team goes, I think your fit is pretty good. The problem is that the only thing it can do at an all time level is a "LeBron team." That's an enormous amount of pressure to put on him.

Otherwise you're relying on harper and Alonzo mourning to create shots for themselves and others. Klay can do that in match ups I guess... personally I think AD, Vince Carter, Rick Barry, or even McAdoo are all better players overall. Their talent is just better. They lead teams on their own, in case things get tough for LeBron or when he needs a break, that matters.

But I'm not going to sit here and say your team sucks or anything. I like it. I just don't know how many match ups you're going to win other than Lebron. But overall your cohesion seems like it'd be good, how many votes is that worth though? We'll see. Of course people might just see "Lebron and underwhelming team around him? Well they're probably going to the finals." lol

KnicksorBust
05-13-2018, 06:43 AM
Well that's a strategic choice each gm has to make. Between talent and fit. They are both important. Yes these are all great players. Some greater than others. Ultimately its all decided by votes. Therefore name value inherently matters to some voters. Fit matters more to others. In the actual nba we've seen less talented teams win it all because of fit. We've also seen lots of teams that are not great fit on paper but still won too.

Klay though, man that's tough to sell as the second best guy on your team. Do people even buy him being able to lead a team to the conference finals in the nba today? Maybe you do, maybe others do. It would surprise me to see that. As far as a LeBron team goes, I think your fit is pretty good. The problem is that the only thing it can do at an all time level is a "LeBron team." That's an enormous amount of pressure to put on him.

Otherwise you're relying on harper and Alonzo mourning to create shots for themselves and others. Klay can do that in match ups I guess... personally I think AD, Vince Carter, Rick Barry, or even McAdoo are all better players overall. Their talent is just better. They lead teams on their own, in case things get tough for LeBron or when he needs a break, that matters.

But I'm not going to sit here and say your team sucks or anything. I like it. I just don't know how many match ups you're going to win other than Lebron. But overall your cohesion seems like it'd be good, how many votes is that worth though? We'll see. Of course people might just see "Lebron and underwhelming team around him? Well they're probably going to the finals." lol

Unbiased 3rd party here. The klay and harper picks were bad. What GM takes Klay over Anthony Davis? Seriously? In a draft where all the teams are loaded you blew 2 picks.

ChiSox219
05-13-2018, 09:23 AM
Unbiased 3rd party here. The klay and harper picks were bad. What GM takes Klay over Anthony Davis? Seriously? In a draft where all the teams are loaded you blew 2 picks.

Yep Klay was a reach even when considering his fit with Lebron.

Quinnsanity
05-13-2018, 03:08 PM
I never said you have "one of the worst teams" like you stated.

There were only three teams listed below me. Hard not to take that as being seen as one of the worst teams.


Unbiased 3rd party here. The klay and harper picks were bad. What GM takes Klay over Anthony Davis? Seriously? In a draft where all the teams are loaded you blew 2 picks.

I wanted Reggie Miller. Nobody would've called that a reach. Klay does the same things, plays better defense, just doesn't have the longevity. As an aside, and I've said this before, I'd love to set a minimum number of games played so we can ignore longevity and just focus on what these players would do together at their peak. But I'll defend the Klay pick based on the Reggie argument, and the fact that I've gotten multiple offers of guys who were picked higher. He fits onto any team, especially the one I tried to build. Harper was all about fit. I'll admit there were more talented players on the board. I just wish fit was something people considered more in this game. I'm not remotely saying I should win. I'm saying too often in this game fit is ignored.

Lucky.
05-13-2018, 03:37 PM
Hard for me to say because I picked Kobe in the 1st but where do you think Klay would have gone had you not picked him? I wasnít exactly looking too close at SGs which is why I ask.

Lakers + Giants
05-13-2018, 03:42 PM
There were only three teams listed below me. Hard not to take that as being seen as one of the worst teams.

There are three other teams with you in that tier and each tier is in the same order as the teams listed in the clubhouse. Maybe that's the misunderstanding? I'm not gonna lie and act like 3 more teams is much better but your positioning on the PRs is because your teams clubhouse is positioned at the bottom of the page.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-13-2018, 05:25 PM
Reggie shouldn't be a second round pick though.

Quinnsanity
05-13-2018, 05:48 PM
Reggie shouldn't be a second round pick though.

He is pretty much every year, and I'm of the opinion that as long as we play with modern rules, any all-time shooter who doesn't completely suck in everything else (the Steve Kerrs, essentially) shouldn't last much longer than that.


There are three other teams with you in that tier and each tier is in the same order as the teams listed in the clubhouse. Maybe that's the misunderstanding? I'm not gonna lie and act like 3 more teams is much better but your positioning on the PRs is because your teams clubhouse is positioned at the bottom of the page.

Yes, that does clear things up. I still argue with your blurb but that does explain to some degree.


Hard for me to say because I picked Kobe in the 1st but where do you think Klay would have gone had you not picked him? I wasnít exactly looking too close at SGs which is why I ask.

A few people told me they were thinking about him early third. I think once someone pops the cherry on low longevity modern guys, everyone else feels more comfortable. Like look at the third round. Once Klay went, a bunch more of those guys started to go. Giannis went not too long after, if I'm not mistaken. And again, I was offered Isiah for him. He's the kind of guy that people criticize the pick on, and yet a lot of people try to trade for when they're trying to actually put together their team later on.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-13-2018, 06:21 PM
He is pretty much every year, and I'm of the opinion that as long as we play with modern rules, any all-time shooter who doesn't completely suck in everything else (the Steve Kerrs, essentially) shouldn't last much longer than that.


And it's a reach to draft him in the 2nd round, especially given that there is less people playing each year. There's more talented wings that went after Reggie.

mightybosstone
05-15-2018, 02:40 PM
So, when are we doing seeding and starting the actual playoff process?

valade16
05-15-2018, 04:21 PM
Everybody send in your ballots as soon as you can! I posted instructions in a separate thread.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-15-2018, 10:27 PM
Some of them aren't even updated or have 10 players or some don't look like they meet era criteria. How long should we wait?

Shammyguy3
05-16-2018, 12:26 AM
Yeah need a clubby check first to make them full and accurate representations of GMs ranks

NYKalltheway
05-16-2018, 02:40 AM
This is actually too hard... I'll actually have to set up a table of variables and sort the teams on Excel based on some factors :)

Thought I had my top 10, then I realized I had 10 more teams to go and half of them deserved to be mentioned lol.

Shammyguy3
05-16-2018, 10:27 AM
This is actually too hard... I'll actually have to set up a table of variables and sort the teams on Excel based on some factors :)

Thought I had my top 10, then I realized I had 10 more teams to go and half of them deserved to be mentioned lol.

Yeah real good year for most teams

NYKalltheway
05-16-2018, 12:14 PM
Finished up my list. Used stats and numbers ( not the ones everyone has in mind though :p ) barely gave a thought of the results after that. Also 'evaluated' my team and got myself in the top 5 (meaning 5th lol) using the same criteria so hopefully this will be a shared view lol :D

As things are, I think a lot of people will be surprised and disappointed at where they'll be ranked by some or overall. It's been a very tough vote if I had to resort to freaking Excel :D

GREATNESS ONE
05-16-2018, 12:33 PM
Finished up my list. Used stats and numbers ( not the ones everyone has in mind though :p ) barely gave a thought of the results after that. Also 'evaluated' my team and got myself in the top 5 (meaning 5th lol) using the same criteria so hopefully this will be a shared view lol :D

As things are, I think a lot of people will be surprised and disappointed at where they'll be ranked by some or overall. It's been a very tough vote if I had to resort to freaking Excel :D

Lmao send me it in PM? I want to see how you broke it down.

NYKalltheway
05-16-2018, 12:39 PM
Lmao send me it in PM? I want to see how you broke it down.

your inbox is full actually :D

GREATNESS ONE
05-16-2018, 02:06 PM
when is the deadline for ballots/ roster adjustments etc? and when do you think you're going to start the playoffs V? after the NBA Finals?

killthesux
05-16-2018, 09:21 PM
ill try to send mine tomorrow or friday, my internet keeps cutting out

ChiSox219
05-16-2018, 10:40 PM
Finished up my list. Used stats and numbers ( not the ones everyone has in mind though :p ) barely gave a thought of the results after that. Also 'evaluated' my team and got myself in the top 5 (meaning 5th lol) using the same criteria so hopefully this will be a shared view lol :D

As things are, I think a lot of people will be surprised and disappointed at where they'll be ranked by some or overall. It's been a very tough vote if I had to resort to freaking Excel :D


Bruh that's awesome, can you share that?

NYKalltheway
05-17-2018, 02:38 AM
I will post it when the rankings are finished.

I also had included playoff + finals "metrics" but decided to scrap them for the time being because this is not such a situation. And I also don't want to automatically vote for the teams with better metrics there because it's a matchup situation and not always the best team on paper wins.

Honestly, that's also how I rank teams all the time, but this time there were at least 18 teams that were pretty good so I wanted to 'get it right' and hopefully be unbiased about particular players and teams. So I had to write things down lol.

Catfish1314
05-17-2018, 03:58 PM
RR, Highlanders, and Rosh are legit. I like PSK and MBT's team a lot too.

Shammyguy3
05-17-2018, 04:39 PM
RR, Highlanders, and Rosh are legit. I like PSK and MBT's team a lot too.

A wild catfish appeared! Thanks for the love <3

GREATNESS ONE
05-17-2018, 04:57 PM
A wild catfish appeared! Thanks for the love <3

Lmao are you Highlander?

KnicksorBust
05-17-2018, 05:02 PM
RR, Highlanders, and Rosh are legit. I like PSK and MBT's team a lot too.

I thought you were dead.

Catfish1314
05-17-2018, 06:02 PM
I thought you were dead.

I got old.

I did die a little inside when I saw some of the reaches on that draft board.

Shammyguy3
05-17-2018, 06:38 PM
Lmao are you Highlander?
Yes

I got old.

I did die a little inside when I saw some of the reaches on that draft board.

What were your top 3 best value picks and top 3 reaches?

GREATNESS ONE
05-17-2018, 06:55 PM
Gotta remember, that we had a handful of skipped picks, so when they finally came around to make their picks it looked like a reach.

GREATNESS ONE
05-17-2018, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=Shammyguy3;32350618]Yes


Why do you hate me?

Shammyguy3
05-17-2018, 06:57 PM
Why do you hate me?

I dont understand lol

dhopisthename
05-17-2018, 07:26 PM
Gotta remember, that we had a handful of skipped picks, so when they finally came around to make their picks it looked like a reach.

yeah I people using this are going to be wtf why was AI picked at 12 when even though he was a reach its mostly a skipped pick thing

Catfish1314
05-17-2018, 07:35 PM
What were your top 3 best value picks and top 3 reaches?

Depends. Were there any special rules to how teams had to be built in this ATRD? Was there supposed to be a certain balance between active and retired players? Because if this was a run of the mill ATRD, I don't even know where to start on the reaches.

GREATNESS ONE
05-17-2018, 07:51 PM
I dont understand lol

Lmfao I just thought you hated me but it doesnít seem like you do!!!! Yaaaayyyy!!! **hugs**

GREATNESS ONE
05-17-2018, 07:53 PM
Depends. Were there any special rules to how teams had to be built in this ATRD? Was there supposed to be a certain balance between active and retired players? Because if this was a run of the mill ATRD, I don't even know where to start on the reaches.

LMAO! Yea we need a Oldie starter pre 79 and can only have two 00-now starters and 5-00 starters all together. So definitely had to make some tough picks.

Catfish1314
05-17-2018, 08:04 PM
LMAO! Yea we need a Oldie starter pre 79 and can only have two 00-now starters and 5-00 starters all together. So definitely had to make some tough picks.

Well that makes a difference. If nothing else, it placed a greater value on the Dave Cowens, Willis Reeds, Bob Pettits, etc. of the world. Because by not taking one of those more well known oldies, you'd risk some people having very little knowledge of your 5th starter. And I say that with the assumption that the winner is decided how it was in the old days: internal seeding and then by popular vote in the NBA Forum. I guess I could have saved myself some time by looking at the rules.

ChiSox219
05-17-2018, 11:59 PM
What were your top 3 best value picks?

KD
Yao
Larry Johnson

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 01:36 AM
KD
Yao
Larry Johnson

Phil Jackson?

Dunkapolooza
05-18-2018, 02:26 AM
Thanks for the props on Larry Johnson. Great match up piece. I liked the value I got with him, harden, and worthy. Mookie I was kinda expecting to be overrated because of his 3 and d lol. Doesn't look like it.

Dunkapolooza
05-18-2018, 03:21 AM
Phil Jackson overrated :oldguy:

Catfish1314
05-18-2018, 09:59 AM
Ray Allen at #11 and Karl-Anthony Towns at #62 made my eyes bleed. Klay Thompson at #49 was also rough; if for no other reason because Manu was still on the board.

Karl Malone at #33 is highway robbery. Maybe the best value pick of the draft. Bill Russell at #26 and Bernard King at #114 were also steals. A champion, a Finals MVP, and a big game performer like Worthy shouldn't have been there at #96. Carmelo Anthony at #125 was also quietly a high value pick because he's a load offensively and can play both forward spots.

Lucky.
05-18-2018, 10:11 AM
Good value picks in the order they were drafted, IMO.

Round 1:

David Robinson

Round 2:

Karl Malone

Round 3:

Dwight Howard, Artis Gilmore

Round 4:

Shawn Marion, Dave Cowens, James Worthy

Round 5:

Elvin Hayes, Bill Laimbeer, Bernard King

Rest of draft:

Yao Ming, Arvydas Sabonis, Jack Sikma, Andrei Kirilenko, Mark Aguirre, Allan Houston, Rudy Gobert

Honestly, a lot of good picks and I originally had more listed but tried to trim it down. I also got lazy towards the end, so yeah.

valade16
05-18-2018, 11:50 AM
Ray Allen at #11 and Karl-Anthony Towns at #62 made my eyes bleed. Klay Thompson at #49 was also rough; if for no other reason because Manu was still on the board.

Karl Malone at #33 is highway robbery. Maybe the best value pick of the draft. Bill Russell at #26 and Bernard King at #114 were also steals. A champion, a Finals MVP, and a big game performer like Worthy shouldn't have been there at #96. Carmelo Anthony at #125 was also quietly a high value pick because he's a load offensively and can play both forward spots.

That was a skipped pick. He was in actuality the 44th player taken in the draft.

valade16
05-18-2018, 11:51 AM
I have received 7 ballots. Send your ballots in by the end of the weekend!!!

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 12:28 PM
I have received 7 ballots. Send your ballots in by the end of the weekend!!!

Lmao!!! Looks like a lot of people wonít even make the playoffs..

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 12:29 PM
Phil Jackson overrated :oldguy:

Lmao so overrated he hs more rings than your entire team combined..... and at least my team will have cohesiveness and chemistry! :p

dhopisthename
05-18-2018, 12:38 PM
I have received 7 ballots. Send your ballots in by the end of the weekend!!!

wow thats sad. should I add jeffy to my ballot? when I did mine he hadn't done his clubhouse.

Dunkapolooza
05-18-2018, 01:08 PM
So overrated he can't get a coaching job in the nba. Lol

And hey, if wilt can win rings with volume guard scorers like Hal Greer and Jerry West he'll be just fine with Harden. I can even run a kobe / Shaq styled triangle better than you can run the triangle. ....

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 04:20 PM
Lmao why would is old awant a coaching job? Heís retired. The guy has been paid 10x more so than most. Lmao yes I agree that with 0 coaching you can run the triangle.


Only in Dunks mind Harden > MJ especially in the Triangle offense....

valade16
05-18-2018, 05:09 PM
Lmao why would is old awant a coaching job? Heís retired. The guy has been paid 10x more so than most. Lmao yes I agree that with 0 coaching you can run the triangle.

Only in Dunks mind Harden > MJ especially in the Triangle offense....

I think his thought process is Harden/Wilt > MJ/Pau.

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 05:22 PM
I think his thought process is Harden/Wilt > MJ/Pau.

Oh mine is

Harden/Wilt < Phil/MJ/Artest/Pau/Horry

The triangle is a complex system which requires movement, balance of egoís, and spacing. Kobe/Shaq wouldnít have won without Phil Jackson and Iím not even sure MJ would have 6 without Phil.

I think a lot of people sleep on the impact The Zen Master had, especially with chemistry/ego controlling, and willingness to move the ball and moving without the ball. Sure you can say Phil only won because MJ/Kobe/Shaq but they only won 1 championship without him total.... The Zen Master is/was the real deal.

Dunkapolooza
05-18-2018, 05:55 PM
G I have better spacing than you though...lol. Mookie, carter, and harden would all be your best starting three point shooter. Plus I have Clifford and Christie on the bench who can shoot. And Larry Johnson shot threes at a decent % in his peak and Brad miller was a floor spacing big man.

Passing I have two players who topped the league in asst in my starting unit. Plus a true pg for three great ball movers. The tov% to steal ratio on my team is among the best. And my whole starting unit can move well. All being quicker than average at position in this league.

Chemistry wise my best player completely changed his game from being the best scorer in NBA history to the best passing big man of all time up to that point to then a defensive specialist and rebounder. Three times he completely rebuilt his game to fit the team and what was asked of him. How many other first rounders did anything like that?

My second best player won sixth man. How many second rounders where ever willing to come off the bench? One or two? Oh and after coming in second for MVP as a pg, where everyone said he could only play with the ball, his team brings in one of the best pgs in the game who is also best with the ball. Harden then wins MVP and has the best record in the league.

My third best player, after being the star of his team one of the most popular players in the league, and a franchise player, went to a new team and excepted a lesser leadership role despite having a lot left in the tank.

Meanwhile you have Mr hero ball, metta punch a fan peace, who is basically the sf version of tragic Bronson and would end up on shaqtin a fool every week in the league today lol.

So I have better ball movement and more adaptable players.

GREATNESS ONE
05-18-2018, 06:56 PM
Canít respond fully atm but I love how your rebuttle is just making fun of my team players lmao.

Iíll just leave this here...

can tell me how many rings youíre team has? How many of your starters were champions? Heíll how many champions do you have period. On your roster?

Any DPOY?


Love ya Dunk, but I donít see it. Your team would just be sitting watching Harden Iso ball for 20seconds. Wilnt Capela wouldnít be used properly and you want us to believe there would be natura team chemistry? Lmao ok.

Iíll get on later and we can go back and forth about this but it would be hilarious watching MJ v Harden on the wings.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-18-2018, 09:49 PM
I will send mine in by the end of the weekend. Having internet issues.

Dunkapolooza
05-18-2018, 11:31 PM
Lol that's ridiculous. Harden only iso 22 possessions at the most out of ninety possessions. If anything it's everyone watching wilt stomp your bigs into Oblivion and harden barely getting the ball.

To reiterate I just made fun of Ron artest. Who is barely a starter, I don't care what you say about defense. Literally two of my starters are at least as decorated defenders as Ron artest and that's his only significant skill. Bobby jones, mookie, and Christie Richardson and cliff are all nearly as decorated.

Your d is not good. Who do you have blocking the paint from Vince Carter? your scoring outside Jordan is among the worst in the league. Nobody can even match pippen, and that duo only worked in the least scoring era. Your team is the one with a bunch of guys standing around watching iso lol. I'll take mookie, Ray Richardson, and Christie against Jordan before I'd take Pau or sikma in anybway limiting wilt.

Championships are team stats man. By your measure bill Russell is 2x as good as Jordan. Ever look up wilts stats against him? Yikes.

Wilt won with Hal Greer as his second best player. Hall Greer. Is he even on a team?

Shaq/ Kobe and Jordan pippen win the same number of rings without Phil. Easily.

GREATNESS ONE
05-19-2018, 01:46 AM
ďShaq/ Kobe and Jordan pippen win the same number of rings without Phil. Easily.ď

Iím tempted to put this in my sig LMFAO!!!

NYKalltheway
05-19-2018, 04:35 AM
I think the second argument [Michael Jordan] stands for sure.

The first, not so sure, but they'd definitely win something.

It's not like the lack of Phil Jackson will mean that they will have a zero game plan and a disastrous coach.

Dunkapolooza
05-19-2018, 12:34 PM
Kobe and Shaq could have won rings in any offense. I mean they were essentially the two best players in the league durring the three peat. Best wing player and best inside player. Would LeBron and curry need Brad Stevens to win rings? Bill Russell didn't need red.

Phil should have gotten more rings. Mj retirement? Guess it might have been the talent of his airness and not Phil's brilliant triangle. Mj back? Oh they win again. Shaq left him and went on to win a ring. Even as a shell of himself with a worse Kobe lol. How could Kobe/Shaq not have not won without phil?

GREATNESS ONE
05-19-2018, 04:41 PM
I think the second argument [Michael Jordan] stands for sure.

The first, not so sure, but they'd definitely win something.

It's not like the lack of Phil Jackson will mean that they will have a zero game plan and a disastrous coach.

The numbers speak for themselves 11 rings with Phil, and only 1 ring without.

GREATNESS ONE
05-19-2018, 04:43 PM
Kobe and Shaq could have won rings in any offense. I mean they were essentially the two best players in the league durring the three peat. Best wing player and best inside player. Would LeBron and curry need Brad Stevens to win rings? Bill Russell didn't need red.

Phil should have gotten more rings. Mj retirement? Guess it might have been the talent of his airness and not Phil's brilliant triangle. Mj back? Oh they win again. Shaq left him and went on to win a ring. Even as a shell of himself with a worse Kobe lol. How could Kobe/Shaq not have not won without phil?

You said ďSame number of ringsĒ I HIGHLY disagree, Zen Master was brilliant at meshing together egos. Kobe/Shaq probably would have won one w/o Phil... 3peat? Not even close.

Dunkapolooza
05-19-2018, 05:30 PM
That's a factor of time lol. Phil had to join with Shaq to beat hi. Like the kd of coaching lol. because Shaq vs Phil, Shaq won.

You say he was brilliant meshing with egos, but what does that mean? Didnt stop mj from retirement. Afterwhich Phil didn't win Are you suggesting that mj wouldn't have won anything because he's such a head case?

Why was Shaq taken fourth overall if he was too crazy to win anything with? Why wasn't he taken around the same time as Westbrook?

Is mj and Scottie = to like Carter and mcgrady and only Phil got them 6 rings? Is Kobe = to penny?

Mj/Scottie and kobe/Shaq are the two best duos in history. You'd have to suck mightily to not win rings with that lol.

GREATNESS ONE
05-19-2018, 06:27 PM
I look forward to the voting/debate process.

Dunkapolooza
05-19-2018, 07:36 PM
Oh yeah lol I had a blast last time taking my penny Wade pg Horace Alonzo team vs a Stockton Kareem team lol.

Dunkapolooza
05-19-2018, 07:46 PM
The way I see coaching in basketball is that talent wins you series. Coaching loses you series.

Phil would never have won anything if he didn't have the best players. But if he was a worse coach he could have lost them any of those and would have been fired.

Ultimately it always comes down to the players making shots or not. Mj? Kobe? Shaq? They are going to make the shot more often then not, regardless of their coach.

GREATNESS ONE
05-19-2018, 11:48 PM
I 100% disagree. Coaching is a huge impact on who wins the series, adjustments, game plans, matchups.

Steve Kerr runs a triangle motion/fast paced offense. Yes he has an incredible team but let be real... Pop/Phil didnít win 9 out of the last 18 Championships for no reason. Coaching has a huge impact, I find Brad Stevens as a brilliant young coaching kind, he has his team leading the Cavs 2-1 in the ECF. Whereís his top 3 talent (all-time)?

You said Phil didnít have success w/o top talent, yet took a MJ(less) Bulls to the ECF, he coached a Lakers team with Brian Cook, Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Kobe etc to a playoffs.... to think coaching has little impact on the game/series/winning/Championships is short sighted and honestly I really donít believe you believe that. Youíre just trying to argue the best you can ;)

Dunkapolooza
05-20-2018, 12:17 AM
Firstly the Celtics are a way more talented team. Top to bottom only two players on the entire Cavs roster would even make their rotation. Much as the 60s Celtics were more talented than the majority of wilts team. Just because you have the best player doesn't mean you have the best team.

The bulls with Jordan win three rings. Without they lose. How is that a testament to Phil's skill? Pippen proved he could lead a team to the conference finals in Portland without Phil. Old pippen. I think it's not much of a reach to say prime pippen could do the same. Also those bulls teams were good. Jordan is not the difference between a three peat team and a non play off team. Though evidence shows he's the difference between a conference finals loser and a three peat. So I don't think it is at all remarkable that the greatest team of all time, missing it's best player, still made it to the ecf.

To put it in perspective... The curry-less warriors, do they lose to the 6ers ya think? That's pretty close to the bulls without mj vs magic.

How many seasons did a Kobe Bryant level player ever not make the playoffs? Wilt never missed them. Has harden? Has drexler even? Has Wade even missed the playoffs? Magic never did. Bird never did. Did pippen ever not make the playoffs?

You'd have to be a god awful coach to not sneak into the playoffs with Kobe.

Overall I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying coaching doesn't matter. Coaching is why the rockets have home court. Why the Celtics have home court. Coaching puts your players in good position and great players make great legacy.

Mookie, DeRozan, Paul George, Horace grant, and parish are not going to beat Chris Paul, Kobe, Larry bird, Karl Malone, and wilt. Even though theoretically you can argue about fit and personality clash but that second team is going to win. Coaching can get team one easier shots than they'd get otherwise, they can get them home court, coaching helps, but it can't win the game for them.

Which is what I'm saying. Phil won his rings because he had Jordan. Not Clyde. He had pippen not hornacek. He had Shaq. Not yao. He had Kobe. Not Roy. All good players. That's the difference between a great player and a really good one. Whenever Phil did not have a top three player in the league what did he do?

Pop had Duncan. Trade him out for roundfield. Does he win those rings?

Shammyguy3
05-20-2018, 11:22 AM
Just sent my PRs. I believe there is a distinct top-10 or so teams, then a number of teams from 11-18 range that depending on matchups in the 1st round can advance, and then the bottom 5 or so are definitely in a class of their own

valade16
05-20-2018, 01:23 PM
I've received 10 ballots thus far! Get yours in ASAP!!

Dunkapolooza
05-20-2018, 02:27 PM
Just ten? Let's go guys lol. We at least need sixteen

GREATNESS ONE
05-20-2018, 03:51 PM
I've received 10 ballots thus far! Get yours in ASAP!!

:laugh2:

Whoís left? Letís start blowing them up lmao

dhopisthename
05-20-2018, 06:40 PM
most of these give you X days to send a ballot in and whoever doesn't send one doesn't make it. looks like we need that

Lakers + Giants
05-20-2018, 10:27 PM
most of these give you X days to send a ballot in and whoever doesn't send one doesn't make it. looks like we need that

thats the only time people submit em. when they see they're eliminated if they don't do it.

Lucky.
05-21-2018, 01:11 AM
Was going to do mine tonight but just got home and have to be at work at 7. Hopefully we have more time, if not cool.

Dunkapolooza
05-21-2018, 01:03 PM
I'd rather wait a few more days and get more ballots in then just hurry along

Redrum187
05-21-2018, 09:43 PM
If someone was offered Dirk Nowitzki for Joe Fulks I'm sure they'd suddenly "have time" within the last week to write it up and send it in. Granted, writing and sending a trade in doesn't take as much time, but lets not pretend like people are so busy they can't even take a dump and be on their phone looking over at teams.

Not trying to be a dick... I just don't believe it.

Shammyguy3
05-21-2018, 11:17 PM
Agreed. That annoys me rhe most about these games. GMs bail when their teams suck

dhopisthename
05-22-2018, 12:11 AM
yeah at least man up and own it that you gave up so we aren't waiting on you.

valade16
05-22-2018, 08:12 AM
The deadline is this Friday! Get your Ballots in!

(I have received 15 ballots thus far.

NYKalltheway
05-22-2018, 08:49 AM
did you vm/pm the guys that didnt?

Lucky.
05-22-2018, 11:33 PM
Halfway done with my rankings. At the point where itís giving me a headache trying to list these teams in order.