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warfelg
04-12-2018, 10:16 AM
Alright it's here. Who's your:
MVP-
ROTY-
MIP-
DPOTY-
6thMOTY
COTY-

All NBA 1st team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA 2nd team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All Rookie Team (IIRC this is positionless):

tredigs
04-12-2018, 10:43 AM
MVP = Harden
DPOY = Gobert
COY = Stevens
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Simmons
6th Man = Sweet Lou

All NBA teams I'll look at after work. Rookie team who cares.

warfelg
04-12-2018, 10:46 AM
MVP = Harden
DPOY = Gobert
COY = Stevens
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Simmons
6th Man = Sweet Lou

All NBA teams I'll look at after work. Rookie team who cares.

Forgot 6th man. Thanks for the reminder.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-12-2018, 11:21 AM
MVP- Harden
ROTY- Simmons
MIP- Oladipo
DPOTY- Rudy G
6thMOTY- Louis
COTY- Antoni

All NBA 1st team:
G- Westy
G- Harden
F- James
F- Anthony Davis
C- Embiid

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Lillard
G- Derozan
F- Giannis
F- Durant
C- Gobert

All NBA 3rd team:
G- Curry
G- Kyrie
F- Draymond
F- Aldridge
C- Towns

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G- Marcus Smart
G- Oladipo
F- Kevin Durant
F- Anthony Davis
C- Gobert

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G- Josh Richardson
G- Klay Thompson
F- Paul George
F- Draymond
C- Horford

All Rookie 1st Team:

Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markenen


All Rookie 2nd team:

Ball
DSJ
Josh Jackson
Fox
Bam Adebayo

dhopisthename
04-12-2018, 11:27 AM
MVP = Harden
DPOY = Gobert
COY = Snyder
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Simmons
6th Man = Lou williams


I think that based on the 5-8 ballots I have seen that the only spots that are really up for debate are Dpoy, Coy, and maybe ROY. For Dpoy its mostly is 56 games enough for Gobert to win it, but every single one has taken Gobert. Coy of the year is a complete toss up and probably goes to either Casey or Stevens. For Rookie, every ballot has had Simmons and while there have been quite a few tv personalities pick Mitchell lately I think that they are the minority.

zn23
04-12-2018, 11:41 AM
MVP- Harden
ROTY-Mitchell
MIP-Oladipo
DPOTY-Gobert
6thMOTY - Lou
COTY- Snyder

All NBA 1st team:
G- Harden
G- Curry
F- LBJ
F- AD
C- Embiid

All NBA 2nd team:
G-Lillard
G- Westbrook
F- Giannis
F- KD
C-Jokic

All NBA 3rd team:

G - Irving
G - CP3
F - Butler
F - Aldridge
C - KAT

tredigs
04-12-2018, 12:13 PM
Harden playing 9 less games than LeBron and Gobert being DPOY in 50 some odd games (with Embiid likely finishing 2nd with 60 some odd games) is going to help Kyrie and especially Curry pass voters "games played?" hurdle. Embiid receiving 1/4 of the 1st place votes after playing 30 games last year didn't hurt either. Seems voters don't seem to care about games played as much anymore if the alternative is simply clearly the better option.

warfelg
04-12-2018, 12:17 PM
Harden playing 9 less games than LeBron and Gobert being DPOY in 50 some odd games (with Embiid likely finishing 2nd with 60 some odd games) is going to help Kyrie and especially Curry pass voters "games played?" hurdle. Embiid receiving 1/4 of the 1st place votes after playing 30 games last year didn't hurt either. Seems voters don't seem to care about games played as much anymore if the alternative is simply clearly the better option.

Gobert and Curry this year are the test IMO. They played more than half the season. If they are DPOTY and 1st Team All NBA, then weíve hit the point where they separate out impact from games played. If they donít, then the arbitrary number of games is still out there.

BTW the 9 games less for Harden would me more if Bron didnít play all 82.

tredigs
04-12-2018, 12:53 PM
Gobert and Curry this year are the test IMO. They played more than half the season. If they are DPOTY and 1st Team All NBA, then weíve hit the point where they separate out impact from games played. If they donít, then the arbitrary number of games is still out there.

BTW the 9 games less for Harden would me more if Bron didnít play all 82.

Yeah, always depends on the competition as well. Gobert is going to win it because he was the best and the 2nd best this year may have been Embiid, who also missed sizeable action. Curry is curious because he was extremely dominant, but 30 games is a ton to miss when going against such a stacked group of guards. That said, even with all that missed time, he did flirt with the top 10 in both Win Shares and VORP (which are cummulative based). So given his Pedigree, he probably does get the 2nd or 3rd team nos still.

ewing
04-12-2018, 12:56 PM
MVP = Harden
DPOY = Gobert
COY = Stevens
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Simmons
6th Man = Sweet Lou

All NBA teams I'll look at after work. Rookie team who cares.

Looks good

mrblisterdundee
04-12-2018, 02:24 PM
ē MVP: James Harden
ē Rookie of the Year: Ben Simmons
ē Most Improved Player: Victor Oladipo
ē Defensive Player of the Year: Rudy Gobert
ē Sixth Man of the Year: Lou Williams
ē Coach of the Year: Quinn Snyder
ē All-NBA 1st Team: Lillard, Harden, LeBron, Durant, Davis
ē All-NBA 2nd Team: Curry, Westbrook, Giannis, Aldridge, Embiid
ē All-NBA 3rd Team: Paul, Oladipo, Butler, Green, Towns
ē All-NBA Defensive 1st Team: Murray, Simmons, Covington, Davis, Gobert
ē All-NBA Defensive 2nd Team: Paul, Oladipo, Butler, Green, Horford
ē All-Rookie Team: Mitchell, Simmons, Tatum, Kuzma, Adebayo

warfelg
04-12-2018, 02:27 PM
A little surprise no one has Lauri Markkennen on their all rookie team.

FOXHOUND
04-12-2018, 02:32 PM
MVP = Harden
DPOY = Gobert
COY = Snyder
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Simmons
6th Man = Lou williams


I think that based on the 5-8 ballots I have seen that the only spots that are really up for debate are Dpoy, Coy, and maybe ROY. For Dpoy its mostly is 56 games enough for Gobert to win it, but every single one has taken Gobert. Coy of the year is a complete toss up and probably goes to either Casey or Stevens. For Rookie, every ballot has had Simmons and while there have been quite a few tv personalities pick Mitchell lately I think that they are the minority.

+1

HandsOnTheWheel
04-12-2018, 02:36 PM
A little surprise no one has Lauri Markkennen on their all rookie team.

I've got him. Thought about it since he plays for the Bulls, but he's been stellar for the most part

warfelg
04-13-2018, 08:48 AM
Alright it's here. Who's your:
MVP- Harden
ROTY- Simmons
MIP- Joe Ingles
DPOTY- Gobert
6thMOTY- Eric Gordon
COTY- Quin Snyder

All NBA 1st team:
G- James Harden
G- Dameon Lillard
F- LeBron James
F- Anthony Davis
C- Joel Embiid

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Steph Curry
G- Russell Wesbrook
F- Kevin Durant
F- Giannis Antetukumpo
C- Jokic

All NBA 3rd team:
G- Kyrie Irving
G- Ben Simmons
F- Jimmy Butler
F- LaMarcus Aldridge
C- Karl Anthony Towns

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G- Marcus Smart
G- Andre Roberson
F- Robert Covington
F- Anthony Davis
C- Rudy Gobert

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G- Ben Simmons
G- Victor Olandipo
F- Jaylon Brown
F- Kevin Durant
C- Joel Embiid

All Rookie Team (IIRC this is positionless):
Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markkanen

Ahriman
04-13-2018, 10:48 AM
Here's mine for what it's worth

MVP- James Harden
ROTY- Ben Simmons
MIP- Victor Oladipo
DPOTY- Rudy Gobert
6thMOTY- Lou Williams
COTY- Mike D'Antoni

All NBA 1st team:
G- James Harden
G- Russell Westbrook
F- LeBron James
F- Kevin Durant
C- Rudy Gobert

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Chris Paul
G- Damian Lillard
F- Giannis Antetokoumpo
F- Anthony Davis
C- Andre Drummond

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G- Chris Paul
G- Jimmy Butler
F- Anthony Davis
F- Draymond Green
C- Rudy Gobert

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G- Kyle Lowry
G- Victor Oladipo
F- Robert Covington
F- Paul George
C- Andre Drummond

All Rookie Team:
Ben Simmons
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum
Kyle Kuzma
John Collins

tredigs
04-13-2018, 03:43 PM
Rob Mahoney's officiall ballot. No shockers. Same as mine in fact expect for Brett Brown over Stevens as COY (very poor pick imo).

https://twitter.com/RobMahoney/status/984820862367956993?s=19

valade16
04-13-2018, 04:04 PM
Surprised to see people (including Zach Lowe of ESPN) putting Lillard All-NBA 1st Team. I think he has a case, but I just can't see voters voting him over Westbrook and/or Curry. My prediction is he makes the 2nd team.

My awards predictions are pretty much the same as everyone else:

MVP: Harden
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Oladipo
ROY: Simmons
6th Man: Lou
COY: Snyder

warfelg
04-13-2018, 04:17 PM
Surprised to see people (including Zach Lowe of ESPN) putting Lillard All-NBA 1st Team. I think he has a case, but I just can't see voters voting him over Westbrook and/or Curry. My prediction is he makes the 2nd team.

My awards predictions are pretty much the same as everyone else:

MVP: Harden
DPOY: Gobert
MIP: Oladipo
ROY: Simmons
6th Man: Lou
COY: Snyder

Lead his team to a better record than Westbrook (coupled to they fell apart without him) and played more games than Curry. That's a solid case.

mrblisterdundee
04-13-2018, 04:47 PM
A little surprise no one has Lauri Markkennen on their all rookie team.

I went with Kuzma, but looking back, they're almost identical. Markkanen even gets slightly more rebounds. I could go either way.

mrblisterdundee
04-13-2018, 04:50 PM
Lead his team to a better record than Westbrook (coupled to they fell apart without him) and played more games than Curry. That's a solid case.

Bingo; same reason I put Lillard first. My how the power of the triple double hath fallen.

valade16
04-13-2018, 04:57 PM
Bingo; same reason I put Lillard first. My how the power of the triple double hath fallen.

I mean I get why he could and I agree. I just don't think he has the name power for the voters to actually put him above Steph or Westbrook.

Either way, not bad for a guy who was almost not on the all-star team.

warfelg
04-13-2018, 05:14 PM
Bingo; same reason I put Lillard first. My how the power of the triple double hath fallen.

I don't think the power of it has fallen. Rather last year when he was put with lesser players, people saw it as the push that put them in. This year with better teammates and similar record I think people are disenchanted with what he did.

More-Than-Most
04-13-2018, 09:21 PM
lol i hope AD beats out Embiid for all Nba first team... I think embiid is the better 2 way player but **** that... rather have those injury provisions in place and i have a feeling that will break a few of them?

tredigs
04-13-2018, 10:56 PM
lol i hope AD beats out Embiid for all Nba first team... I think embiid is the better 2 way player but **** that... rather have those injury provisions in place and i have a feeling that will break a few of them?

AD is the better 2 way player. Significantly better offensively and now that he's staying healthy the past couple seasons, watch out. That was my one big disclaimer with him and he's shutting the door on it. Especially with improved D this season. He gets lost out there much less often and blocks everything in sight. He's a true top 5 talent now. Embiid's got some figuring out to do still.

sep11ie
04-13-2018, 11:58 PM
Didn't Lou Will start like all year?

JasonJohnHorn
04-14-2018, 02:41 PM
I feel like I haven't watch enough to pick the 2 and 3 teams or the defensive teams (which you really need to watch every team on a regular basis because great defenders get left of this team every year).

But top awards... here goes:

MVP-LBJ or Harden.
ROTY- Mitchell or Simmons
MIP-Oladipa
DPOTY-Gobert
6thMOTY-Lou Williams
COTY-Pop or Casey

All NBA 1st team:
PG-Curry
SG-Harden
SF-LBJ
PF-AD
C-Gobert


Some of the wards are too close to call this year (as is the case many years), but DPOY, 6th man, the MIP, and the all-first team seem like no brainers to me.

KobeOwnSU
04-14-2018, 02:47 PM
MVP- Harden
ROTY- Simmons
MIP- Oladipo
DPOTY- Rudy G
6thMOTY- Louis
COTY- Antoni

All NBA 1st team:
G- Westy
G- Harden
F- James
F- Anthony Davis
C- Embiid

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Lillard
G- Derozan
F- Giannis
F- Durant
C- Gobert

All NBA 3rd team:
G- Curry
G- Kyrie
F- Draymond
F- Aldridge
C- Towns

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G- Marcus Smart
G- Oladipo
F- Kevin Durant
F- Anthony Davis
C- Gobert

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G- Josh Richardson
G- Klay Thompson
F- Paul George
F- Draymond
C- Horford

All Rookie 1st Team:

Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markenen


All Rookie 2nd team:

Ball
DSJ
Josh Jackson
Fox
Bam Adebayo

This. Thanks for making it easy for me haha.

Sanjay
06-14-2018, 03:17 AM
Alright it's here. Who's your:
MVP-
ROTY-
MIP-
DPOTY-
6thMOTY
COTY-

All NBA 1st team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA 2nd team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA Defensive 1st team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All NBA Defensive 2nd team:
G-
G-
F-
F-
C-

All Rookie Team (IIRC this is positionless):

Alright it's here. Who's your:
MVP- Harden
ROTY- Mitchell
MIP- Oladipo
DPOTY- Embiid
6thMOTY - Gordon
COTY- Synder, although I would have picked D'Antoni

All NBA 1st team:
G- Harden
G- Lillard
F- James
F- Durant
C- Davis

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Westbrook
G- DeRozan
F- Butler
F- Antetokounmpo
C- Embiid

All Rookie Team (IIRC this is positionless):
Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markkanen

More-Than-Most
06-14-2018, 04:43 AM
Alright it's here. Who's your:
MVP- Harden
ROTY- Mitchell
MIP- Oladipo
DPOTY- Embiid
6thMOTY - Gordon
COTY- Synder, although I would have picked D'Antoni

All NBA 1st team:
G- Harden
G- Lillard
F- James
F- Durant
C- Davis

All NBA 2nd team:
G- Westbrook
G- DeRozan
F- Butler
F- Antetokounmpo
C- Embiid

All Rookie Team (IIRC this is positionless):
Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum
Kuzma
Markkanen

I cant do it... Both simmons and Gobert are just worlds better than Mitch/Embiid in terms of ROY and DPOY... Thet just are. I dont care that simmons isnt a true rookie and gobert missed games.... Embiid is a god defensively but my god he cant touch goberts defense this year. If Mitch/Embiid win those awards it will be just sad and not right. Simmons/Gobert deserve those awards by far and I am the biggest embiid dick rider you will ever meet.

prodigy
06-16-2018, 02:14 PM
MVP = Lebron- Best player in the league and proved it
DPOY = Gobert- beast
COY = Stevens- I feel like he can make me an all-star
MIP = Oladipo
ROY = Mitchell- actual rookie, received no pay check from an NBA team last season.
6th Man = Lou williams

HandsOnTheWheel
06-25-2018, 03:25 PM
Besides the coaches and maybe 6MOY, there really shouldn't be any surprises tonight.

Harden MVP
Gobert DPOY
Victor Oladipo MIP
Ben Simmons ROY
Lou Williams 6MOY
Quin Snyder COY

Now I give Casey a lot of credit for coaching the Raps to 59 wins. But truth is, they had a really solid, consistent group of guys roughly 11 deep for a great majority of the year. It's kind of the same reasoning that D'Antoni wasn't in the running this year. I'd rather see the award go to a coach who does more with a lot less like Synder or Brad.

As much as I'd rather see Donovan Mitchell win ROY over Simmons, Simmons established himself as a great player and it was technically his first year fair or not and definitely deserves it. Also wouldn't mind seeing a co-ROY like Kidd/Hill. Both guys were phenomenal and co-ROY would satisfy those complaining about just Simmons winning it.

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 07:05 PM
I can't see how LeBron isn't the MVP. Harden doesn't do more than LeBron. Houston fans will be upset but they know it is the truth. Without Kyrie, Cavs lose just one less game and that included all the turmoil, turnover of players, and his teammates just massively underperforming. Harden had help all season. They gain CP3 (top five PG) while Cavs lose Kyrie (top five PG). LeBron is the MVP. You all know it.

DPOY is an easy one. Should be Rudy.

COTY is Brad Stevens, IMO. But I think Quinn Snyder has a case as well.

6MOTY is Lou Williams or Eric Gordon (assuming he qualifies enough as coming off the bench.)

MIP is Victor Oladipo. Became a top defensive player and also improved every aspect of his game.

More-Than-Most
06-25-2018, 07:26 PM
Man am i gonna enjoy the butthurt in here when big ben wins : )

More-Than-Most
06-25-2018, 07:27 PM
I can't see how LeBron isn't the MVP. Harden doesn't do more than LeBron. Houston fans will be upset but they know it is the truth. Without Kyrie, Cavs lose just one less game and that included all the turmoil, turnover of players, and his teammates just massively underperforming. Harden had help all season. They gain CP3 (top five PG) while Cavs lose Kyrie (top five PG). LeBron is the MVP. You all know it.

DPOY is an easy one. Should be Rudy.

COTY is Brad Stevens, IMO. But I think Quinn Snyder has a case as well.

6MOTY is Lou Williams or Eric Gordon (assuming he qualifies enough as coming off the bench.)

MIP is Victor Oladipo. Became a top defensive player and also improved every aspect of his game.

Wins/Lebron hate and the stupid notion we cant give it to lebron every year. Basically just that and its dumb

warfelg
06-25-2018, 09:13 PM
Ben Simmons ROY....have fun everyone.

Silent
06-25-2018, 09:13 PM
Man am i gonna enjoy the butthurt in here when big ben wins : )



3 2 1 go

warfelg
06-25-2018, 09:13 PM
Awkward too, Donovan Mitchell is right by the stage and Ben wasn't.

Sixers3Fan
06-25-2018, 09:14 PM
YES!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HandsOnTheWheel
06-25-2018, 09:17 PM
Simmons it is. Well deserved

Htownballa1622
06-25-2018, 09:36 PM
Wah wah. Harden is mvp

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 09:45 PM
damn! Casey's wife is bangin

PAOboston
06-25-2018, 09:48 PM
Not that this stuff matters a ton but I have no idea how or why Dwayne Casey deserved COY.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

HandsOnTheWheel
06-25-2018, 09:54 PM
Just when I thought it couldn't be get more cringeworthy than last year awards... lol

HandsOnTheWheel
06-25-2018, 09:55 PM
Not that this stuff matters a ton but I have no idea how or why Dwayne Casey deserved COY.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Yeah that was a little surprising

HandsOnTheWheel
06-25-2018, 10:04 PM
LMao Bill Russell flipped off Chuck :laugh:

ZH721
06-25-2018, 10:52 PM
Iím not sure Brad Stevens will ever win a COY award. His greatness seems to already be taken for granted like Pop and Belichick.

FlashBolt
06-25-2018, 10:56 PM
Harden will get it but LeBron deserves it. Facts.

YAALREADYKNO
06-25-2018, 11:02 PM
That speech tho lmao

Htownballa1622
06-25-2018, 11:08 PM
Harden won the best award of the year! (Since a superstar had to team up with a 73 win team after it's dpoy cried in the car like a lil ***** when LeBron smacked them)

Cal827
06-25-2018, 11:11 PM
Congrats to Harden on the MVP. Must be sweet, especially finishing a very close second to Curry and Westy :laugh2:

Allphakenny1
06-25-2018, 11:26 PM
Harden won the best award of the year! (Since a superstar had to team up with a 73 win team after it's dpoy cried in the car like a lil ***** when LeBron smacked them)

Htownballa1622 once again a bridesmaid, not a bride. Do not worry mam, one day it will be your turn.

Htownballa1622
06-25-2018, 11:28 PM
Htownballa1622 once again a bridesmaid, not a bride. Do not worry mam, one day it will be your turn.

That was a poor attempt at a troll. Try with a different account this time? Burner account maybe?

Allphakenny1
06-25-2018, 11:36 PM
That was a poor attempt at a troll. Try with a different account this time? Burner account maybe?

Burner account, I have been on this site almost as long as you. Maybe longer as an observer. You should be happy your boy won the MVP, but tried to troll the only team better than yours for some odd reason. I called you out on it, just take it and move on.

mightybosstone
06-25-2018, 11:37 PM
Harden will get it but LeBron deserves it. Facts.

No he doesn't. It's a regular season award. Facts.

mightybosstone
06-25-2018, 11:40 PM
I can't see how LeBron isn't the MVP. Harden doesn't do more than LeBron. Houston fans will be upset but they know it is the truth. Without Kyrie, Cavs lose just one less game and that included all the turmoil, turnover of players, and his teammates just massively underperforming. Harden had help all season. They gain CP3 (top five PG) while Cavs lose Kyrie (top five PG). LeBron is the MVP. You all know it.

DPOY is an easy one. Should be Rudy.

COTY is Brad Stevens, IMO. But I think Quinn Snyder has a case as well.

6MOTY is Lou Williams or Eric Gordon (assuming he qualifies enough as coming off the bench.)

MIP is Victor Oladipo. Became a top defensive player and also improved every aspect of his game.
I'm not upset, because the right guy won. And I don't "know it," because I've believed Harden was MVP all season long. If you can't possibly understand why that's the case, then there's really no point in debating with you...

Allphakenny1
06-25-2018, 11:41 PM
No he doesn't. It's a regular season award. Facts.

Agreed, I see no legit argument for LeBron as MVP for this regular season.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 12:12 AM
I'm not upset, because the right guy won. And I don't "know it," because I've believed Harden was MVP all season long. If you can't possibly understand why that's the case, then there's really no point in debating with you...

Sorry, LeBron's the MVP. Harden's team got better because of Chris Paul while Cavs were the same despite numerous changes because of LeBron's greatness. There is no debate. Only reason Harden won was because Harden+CP3 combo were unstoppable under that system and they won more games because of it.. It's just the truth. If you don't want context, fine, Harden is the MVP. But valuable = LeBron and that's the fact.

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 12:17 AM
Sorry, LeBron's the MVP. Harden's team got better because of Chris Paul while Cavs were the same despite numerous changes because of LeBron's greatness. There is no debate. Only reason Harden won was because Harden+CP3 combo were unstoppable under that system and they won more games because of it.. It's just the truth. If you don't want context, fine, Harden is the MVP. But valuable = LeBron and that's the fact.
He's literally not. Harden is literally the MVP. You're staring up at a blue sky and screaming that it's red. Let it go, man. Season is over. Harden is MVP. Period.

We can pick this up again when next season starts, but for last season, your argument is now officially a losing one.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 12:24 AM
He's literally not. Harden is literally the MVP. You're staring up at a blue sky and screaming that it's red. Let it go, man. Season is over. Harden is MVP. Period.

We can pick this up again when next season starts, but for last season, your argument is now officially a losing one.

I'm only here because it's the only NBA-related thing today. I can honestly care less. It doesn't validate anything for me. I'm just explaining that on a strictly value perspective, Harden has not contributed more. And that's honestly a goddamn fact. Houston has a much better roster overall and their W/L without CP3 (15-9) puts them on pace to winning as many games as the Cavs. With context involved and the team dynamic, there is no doubt LeBron was the more valuable player. We all know Harden won because the Rockets had more wins.. Flip the switch, same amount of wins (and Cavs actually have a comparable roster), LeBron's winning it. Wins is why Harden won and the higher amount of wins is largely contributed to Chris Paul's arrival. Are you going to deny that? I think not.

cmellofan15
06-26-2018, 12:50 AM
Should be Hardenís second MVP but whatever lol

Htownballa1622
06-26-2018, 01:03 AM
Burner account, I have been on this site almost as long as you. Maybe longer as an observer. You should be happy your boy won the MVP, but tried to troll the only team better than yours for some odd reason. I called you out on it, just take it and move on.

I made a joke. But tell me what I said was wrong?

More-Than-Most
06-26-2018, 01:26 AM
Should be Hardenís second MVP but whatever lol

it should be lebrons like 12th but whatever

nastynice
06-26-2018, 01:46 AM
lol at the harden hate

Cmon, dudes been in the driver seat all year!

BSF101
06-26-2018, 01:53 AM
How does a second yr player win ROTY? I mean why not call it the SOTY Sophomore of the Yr award cause technically that's what Ben Simmions is a 2nd yr player aka Sophomore. Just a another reason why I hate the nba awards. And let's not forget they give COTH to a guy who was swept in the first round after leading his team with the best record in the east Not Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr from the west , or Tyronn Lue. Whats next given awards to guys who haven't played since 1988? Or better yet given awards to the team with the worst record witha trophy that reads At Least you tried.

nastynice
06-26-2018, 02:09 AM
How does a second yr player win ROTY? I mean why not call it the SOTY Sophomore of the Yr award cause technically that's what Ben Simmions is a 2nd yr player aka Sophomore. Just a another reason why I hate the nba awards. And let's not forget they give COTH to a guy who was swept in the first round after leading his team with the best record in the east Not Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr from the west , or Tyronn Lue. Whats next given awards to guys who haven't played since 1988? Or better yet given awards to the team with the worst record witha trophy that reads At Least you tried.

It's a reg season award tho, lots of people felt the raps would be tougher in the playoffs this year, I did too. Really they shoulda done these awards way earlier, I'm not a fan waiting til off season, not at all

Well players won roty before as a second year, plus it's not robbery, Simmons WAS nasty. Two insanely elite rookies (for being a rookie), one award, one had to win one had to lose

Dunkapolooza
06-26-2018, 02:10 AM
Been Simmons is not a rookie lol. What a joke. Being part of an organization and not playing the whole first year is such a huge advantage. Watch, eventually NBA teams are going to start red shirting most of their picks. Keep em in the weight room and develop them off the court.

I mean Simmons has such a huge advantage over actual rookies.

If harden plays like he's been playing the last four or five years... Damn. What's that three second place finishes and now a true MVP?

JAZZNC
06-26-2018, 02:13 AM
Congrats to Rudy on the DPOY! Hopefully the first of several.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 02:28 AM
Some of you are seriously uneducated to the highest degree. NBA rules are that if you have not played an NBA game and missed your first season or seasons thereafter, you are still qualified to be a rookie in the future. It's not a difficult concept. By the rules, Ben Simmons is a rookie. We can argue semantics all day long but the rules are the rules: Ben Simmons is a rookie.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2018, 03:53 AM
How does a second yr player win ROTY? I mean why not call it the SOTY Sophomore of the Yr award cause technically that's what Ben Simmions is a 2nd yr player aka Sophomore. Just a another reason why I hate the nba awards. And let's not forget they give COTH to a guy who was swept in the first round after leading his team with the best record in the east Not Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr from the west , or Tyronn Lue. Whats next given awards to guys who haven't played since 1988? Or better yet given awards to the team with the worst record witha trophy that reads At Least you tried.

:laugh:


that was one way to kill any argument you were trying to make.

COOLbeans
06-26-2018, 04:21 AM
That ďfoulĒ photo on that one dudeís sig is clearly fake. Really bad photoshop job

Jamiecballer
06-26-2018, 05:48 AM
Felt good to see Harden get the MVP. The Lebron as MVP narrative that started 80% of the way through the season was tough to stomach seeings how he mailed the season in around the halfway mark. I hope he wins the next 3 though because he truly deserves to have a bunch.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 07:08 AM
Some of you are seriously uneducated to the highest degree. NBA rules are that if you have not played an NBA game and missed your first season or seasons thereafter, you are still qualified to be a rookie in the future. It's not a difficult concept. By the rules, Ben Simmons is a rookie. We can argue semantics all day long but the rules are the rules: Ben Simmons is a rookie.

This. And their arguments as to why he shouldn't usually fall apart quickly as when you ask why they keep falling back on why those other guys should be allowed while a situation like Ben's isn't is "because it's different."

And regardless what ends up cracking me up is some of them even at some point say that Mitchell was better and they would have voted for him anyways. Well clearly the voters disagreee with that:
1011452178823831554

Some other results:
https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2018/06/2017-18-Kia-Most-Valuable-Player-Award-Voting-Results.pdf
Harden ran away with this award having 71 more first place votes than LeBron

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2018/06/2017-18-Kia-NBA-Defensive-Player-Award-Voting-Results.pdf
Rudy Gobert ran away with DPOY and rightfully so, but so many guys got a 1st place vote.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2018/06/2017-18-Kia-NBA-Sixth-Man-Award-Voting-Results.pdf
Lou Will also ran away with his award.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2018/06/2017-18-NBA-Coach-of-the-Year-Voting-Results.pdf
COTY was the closest race it looks, with Dwane narrowly beating out Quin Snyder with Brad Stevens in 3rd. All three had 200+ points.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/46/2018/06/2017-18-NBA-Executive-of-the-Year-Voting-Results.pdf
Danny Ainge and Burner Boy got the same number of 1st place votes :laugh:

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 08:22 AM
I'm only here because it's the only NBA-related thing today. I can honestly care less. It doesn't validate anything for me. I'm just explaining that on a strictly value perspective, Harden has not contributed more. And that's honestly a goddamn fact. Houston has a much better roster overall and their W/L without CP3 (15-9) puts them on pace to winning as many games as the Cavs. With context involved and the team dynamic, there is no doubt LeBron was the more valuable player. We all know Harden won because the Rockets had more wins.. Flip the switch, same amount of wins (and Cavs actually have a comparable roster), LeBron's winning it. Wins is why Harden won and the higher amount of wins is largely contributed to Chris Paul's arrival. Are you going to deny that? I think not.

Look, I understand what you're saying. I get the argument for Lebron. But at the end of the day, it's a regular season award. Harden posted better numbers and the Rockets won more games. It's as simple as that.

Also, take a look at how much you had to write to justify your argument compared to that little paragraph I just typed. When your take requires THAT much mental gymnastics and explanation, don't you have to take a step back and ask yourself "Am I trying too hard to convince someone of something I know is wrong?"

warfelg
06-26-2018, 08:37 AM
Look, I understand what you're saying. I get the argument for Lebron. But at the end of the day, it's a regular season award. Harden posted better numbers and the Rockets won more games. It's as simple as that.

Also, take a look at how much you had to write to justify your argument compared to that little paragraph I just typed. When your take requires THAT much mental gymnastics and explanation, don't you have to take a step back and ask yourself "Am I trying too hard to convince someone of something I know is wrong?"

So I had this discussion with a friend whoís a Rockets fan and broke it down like this:

LeBron is the active GOAT and likely top 3 all time. That makes him inherently more valuable than any one else in the league on paper.

BUT

The league MVP year to year is a statistics driven award. Whoís stats had a bigger impact on that teams results. Hardens statistics this year were a bigger factor in the outcome of the Rockets season the LeBrons were.

So I personally change what this award is when I look at it. I donít say valuable for the reason I said with LeBron because he (for the time being) would be my continual answer. I go to: Most Impactful Player. And thatís why itís Harden to me.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 08:45 AM
How does a second yr player win ROTY? I mean why not call it the SOTY Sophomore of the Yr award cause technically that's what Ben Simmions is a 2nd yr player aka Sophomore. Just a another reason why I hate the nba awards. And let's not forget they give COTH to a guy who was swept in the first round after leading his team with the best record in the east Not Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr from the west , or Tyronn Lue. Whats next given awards to guys who haven't played since 1988? Or better yet given awards to the team with the worst record witha trophy that reads At Least you tried.

bcuz he didnt play in year 1 lol how is that so hard to comprehend? its been a rule forever, Blake also won after sitting out where was the outrage then? Some wanted to give it to Embiid last year i dont recall crying either.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 08:46 AM
Been Simmons is not a rookie lol. What a joke. Being part of an organization and not playing the whole first year is such a huge advantage. Watch, eventually NBA teams are going to start red shirting most of their picks. Keep em in the weight room and develop them off the court.

I mean Simmons has such a huge advantage over actual rookies.

If harden plays like he's been playing the last four or five years... Damn. What's that three second place finishes and now a true MVP?

if hes not a rookie then how did he win the rookie of the year? lololol

Firefistus
06-26-2018, 08:57 AM
if hes not a rookie then how did he win the rookie of the year? lololol

Were you sleeping under a rock all year? This conversation has been spent all year long. And then there was information from Colangelo that the year before Simmons was actually healthy, but didn't want to play because he knew he wouldn't be up for Rookie of the Year. And his endorsement deals have a fat bonus if he wins it. So he asked to sit out the second half of the season.

One of Colangelo's "Burner accounts" talks about it.

In any event, Simmons sat the second half of the year training and learning the game so he could come back to win it the following year. Somehow the NBA is ok with this.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 09:03 AM
Were you sleeping under a rock all year? This conversation has been spent all year long. And then there was information from Colangelo that the year before Simmons was actually healthy, but didn't want to play because he knew he wouldn't be up for Rookie of the Year. And his endorsement deals have a fat bonus if he wins it. So he asked to sit out the second half of the season.

One of Colangelo's "Burner accounts" talks about it.

In any event, Simmons sat the second half of the year training and learning the game so he could come back to win it the following year. Somehow the NBA is ok with this.

Their ok with it because he didn't play a game in 2016-17 and that's what their rule states. :shrug: Your problem is with the NBA and not Ben.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 09:42 AM
Were you sleeping under a rock all year? This conversation has been spent all year long. And then there was information from Colangelo that the year before Simmons was actually healthy, but didn't want to play because he knew he wouldn't be up for Rookie of the Year. And his endorsement deals have a fat bonus if he wins it. So he asked to sit out the second half of the season.

One of Colangelo's "Burner accounts" talks about it.

In any event, Simmons sat the second half of the year training and learning the game so he could come back to win it the following year. Somehow the NBA is ok with this.

i dont care what the convo was lol there was never a moment in time where Simmons wasnt a rookie this year, i mean this literally too. people just like ti complain more than ever.

prodigy
06-26-2018, 09:54 AM
if hes not a rookie then how did he win the rookie of the year? lololol

Bad system. He got paid by an NBA team last season so hes not a rookie. Or should give the money back lol.

Mitchell was ROY and Lebron MVP. Lebron carried that team and did something special. Through all the drama, trades and complete overhauls they won 50 games. I mean thats the definition of valuable.

But thats just me, honestly i don't give a crap lol. Don't effect my life.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 11:25 AM
so what he didnt play a single minute and spent of the season rehabbing.

Harden and Simmons literally won yet you are trying to tell me otherwise lol i dont care what your wrong opinion of a fact is.

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 11:58 AM
People need to get over Simmons winning Rookie of the Year. It was a great year for rookies, and Simmons was just a little better than Mitchell and Tatum. In most other years, those guys would have won, but it was a great year for rookies. Those guys will still have a ton of time to prove themselves and win future awards and accolades.

And everyone acts like this is the first time a guy who sat out his first season has won ROY, but that's not the case. Blake won the award after he sat out all of 2009-10. Granted, it's been a minute, but I don't recall PSD being up in arms over him winning that award.

Frankly, does that award really matter that much? If we look at the year Blake was drafted (2009), he was drafted in the same class as Harden, Curry and DeRozan. Who actually won the ROY award that season? Tyreke freaking Evans! In 2013, Michael Carter Williams won the award, and he was in the same draft class as Giannis, Oladipo and Gobert. Five years from now, no one will give a damn who won ROY this season. We'll be talking about which of those guys has progressed and which have been busts.

Oefarmy2005
06-26-2018, 12:17 PM
Mitchell had a better season and was more valuable to his team. That's the only problem I have with Simmons winning the award.

Firefistus
06-26-2018, 12:29 PM
I love how everyone seems to think people don't have a problem with the same situation that happened in the past. They fail to admit that people did have a problem with the same situation in the past.

I honestly didn't have a problem with it until it was out in the open that Simmons was healthy enough to play half the season last year. At that point he wasn't rehabbing. He and the rest of the organization were intentionally sitting him so he would qualify for rookie of the year the following year.

My issue with this is that medical information was released publicly, so everyone knows that Simmons was healthy, NOT REHABING. And yet no action has been made against the organization. If a team like the Lakers farts in a different direction they get fined a whole pile of money. If the Spurs rest their guys for a game they're fined a whole pile of money. The Warriors have been fined for resting guys during the regular season when they're healthy. But why are the 76ers immune to this? It doesn't make sense to me.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 01:33 PM
Blake had an ACL tear, he was healthy more then half then half the season. A jones fracture comes with a probability of re-injury so its beneficial to take sever caution. He wasnt ready half way through either

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 01:38 PM
Look, I understand what you're saying. I get the argument for Lebron. But at the end of the day, it's a regular season award. Harden posted better numbers and the Rockets won more games. It's as simple as that.

Also, take a look at how much you had to write to justify your argument compared to that little paragraph I just typed. When your take requires THAT much mental gymnastics and explanation, don't you have to take a step back and ask yourself "Am I trying too hard to convince someone of something I know is wrong?"

What are you? A wanna-be psycholigist? This is a forum site. If you don't want to discuss something, don't type. Mental gymnastics and explanation? Bro, it took me a minute and thirty seconds max to type that. Maybe you have arthritis in your fingers but the most difficulty I had was looking up their record without CP3 because I knew it wasn't great. You're like Tredigs, you know? You blame Tredigs for trying to be "superior and demeaning" but you're actually the same type of individual. If you really don't want to talk about it, don't quote it. Because you're quoting me and then saying that I'm the one pushing it but you could easily avoid it. The temptation is too much for you, ehh?

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:41 PM
so what he didnt play a single minute and spent of the season rehabbing.

Harden and Simmons literally won yet you are trying to tell me otherwise lol i dont care what your wrong opinion of a fact is.

How is someones opinion wrong? i believe the system sucks and a player who gets paid by a team, Learns the playbook, watches practices and games live, as he got healthier took part in practices and pickup games with teammates learning them and them learning him etc... is not a rookie the following year.

I'm not trying to tell you anything. this is opinion based sports forum and myself along with many others have a different opinion then you. thats ok. Once again not a sixers or Jazz fan so i could really careless who won it. But i would like to see this system changed in the future.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 01:44 PM
How is someones opinion wrong? i believe the system sucks and a player who gets paid by a team, Learns the playbook, watches practices and games live, as he got healthier took part in practices and pickup games with teammates learning them and them learning him etc... is not a rookie the following year.

I'm not trying to tell you anything. this is opinion based sports forum and myself along with many others have a different opinion then you. thats ok. Once again not a sixers or Jazz fan so i could really careless who won it. But i would like to see this system changed in the future.

Yeah, should be one rookie of the year per class. Brogdon won last year = Ben should be disqualified this year. Just gotta be fair because there is definitely a huge advantage being in the NBA for a year even if you never played a game.

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:45 PM
Frankly, does that award really matter that much?

for me? nope don't mean a thing. But for a kid straight from college learning the pros on the fly, everything being new I''m sure it means a lot. Mitchell got punished for staying healthy lol. Every rookie should just sit out a season. Well i guess when the sixers draft you that happens away.

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:47 PM
Yeah, should be one rookie of the year per class. Brogdon won last year = Ben should be disqualified this year. Just gotta be fair because there is definitely a huge advantage being in the NBA for a year even if you never played a game.

agreed.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 01:49 PM
there is no advantage to not playing compared to playing year round. you get better by playing.

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:49 PM
I honestly didn't have a problem with it until it was out in the open that Simmons was healthy enough to play half the season last year. At that point he wasn't rehabbing. He and the rest of the organization were intentionally sitting him so he would qualify for rookie of the year the following year.

I didn't know this. wow!! If this is true Simmons is def not rookie of the year no argument could change my mind. Also sixers should be punished for tanking then no? If this is true of course.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 01:49 PM
How is someones opinion wrong? i believe the system sucks and a player who gets paid by a team, Learns the playbook, watches practices and games live, as he got healthier took part in practices and pickup games with teammates learning them and them learning him etc... is not a rookie the following year.

I'm not trying to tell you anything. this is opinion based sports forum and myself along with many others have a different opinion then you. thats ok. Once again not a sixers or Jazz fan so i could really careless who won it. But i would like to see this system changed in the future.

you saying he isnt a rookie or ROY is wrong. how didnt you get that?

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:52 PM
there is no advantage to not playing compared to playing year round. you get better by playing.

you get better by playing yes. Guess what, practicing is playing lol. Even more so when you go against Pro's in those practices/pickups. Its not the same as a full NBA game sure. But i mean you still going against pros, running plays etc... More then what a rookie is doing down in college playing most their games vs guys who will be washing my car.

prodigy
06-26-2018, 01:55 PM
you saying he isnt a rookie or ROY is wrong. how didnt you get that?

Because daddy Adam Silver told you so? lol, yes he won it. once again the system needs fixed. He's not my ROTY haha.

Just because someone wins something doesn't mean i can't disagree with it. thats sports lol. thats the competitiveness that drives athletes.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 01:57 PM
there is no advantage to not playing compared to playing year round. you get better by playing.

Lol. Impossible to debate this dude. He's so ignorant and stubborn. Right... there are no advantages to having NBA trainers and viewing every NBA game your team plays with insight knowledge nor is there an advantage mentally in preparing yourself for the travel/lifestyle. Totally not an advantage.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 01:58 PM
Because daddy Adam Silver told you so? lol, yes he won it. once again the system needs fixed. He's not my ROTY haha.

Just because someone wins something doesn't mean i can't disagree with it. thats sports lol. thats the competitiveness that drives athletes.

Your problem though is with the NBA not Ben, yet very few who disagree with him are talking about that part....

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 02:07 PM
Because daddy Adam Silver told you so? lol, yes he won it. once again the system needs fixed. He's not my ROTY haha.

Just because someone wins something doesn't mean i can't disagree with it. thats sports lol. thats the competitiveness that drives athletes.

well yea how the NBA declares him is what matters. again, no outrage for Blake winning when he was cleared much sooner.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 02:07 PM
Lol. Impossible to debate this dude. He's so ignorant and stubborn. Right... there are no advantages to having NBA trainers and viewing every NBA game your team plays with insight knowledge nor is there an advantage mentally in preparing yourself for the travel/lifestyle. Totally not an advantage.

Iím sure thereís an advantage.

Just like Luca Doncic has the advantage that heís been playing professionally since he was 14. Are we going to factor that in? And before you say anything about it not being the same, your right it isnít. Euro League players donít travel on charted Jets. They need to worry about having their passports. They need to worry about their safety when in some parts.

Couldnít you say that Donovan Mitchell benefitted from not being a one and done player? I could argue he certainly benefitted because he had an extra year to develop his game.

Why did Kyle Kuzma look so much better early on than Lonzo Ball? Because Kuzma stayed in college longer than Ball and therefor had more time to improve his game.

I know none of that compares to Simmons being in the Sixers building for a year; but thatís likely all part of the conversation that happens over the debate of whatís a rookie. Because all those little things are an advantage that other players (namely 1-and-done) did not have.

corky831
06-26-2018, 02:50 PM
Iím sure thereís an advantage.

Just like Luca Doncic has the advantage that heís been playing professionally since he was 14. Are we going to factor that in? And before you say anything about it not being the same, your right it isnít. Euro League players donít travel on charted Jets. They need to worry about having their passports. They need to worry about their safety when in some parts.

Couldnít you say that Donovan Mitchell benefitted from not being a one and done player? I could argue he certainly benefitted because he had an extra year to develop his game.

Why did Kyle Kuzma look so much better early on than Lonzo Ball? Because Kuzma stayed in college longer than Ball and therefor had more time to improve his game.

I know none of that compares to Simmons being in the Sixers building for a year; but thatís likely all part of the conversation that happens over the debate of whatís a rookie. Because all those little things are an advantage that other players (namely 1-and-done) did not have.

Tatum was a 1 and done and played his first year. Clearly left out and used Mitchell and Kuzma as examples. I'm ok with it, it's not Simmons fault, it's the NBA'S system. Simmons play was worthy. It's like Ichiro winning rookie of the yr as a 29 or 30 after playing yrs in Japan. He was so good he won MVP too. Can't blame the player, it's the system

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 03:11 PM
Iím sure thereís an advantage.

Just like Luca Doncic has the advantage that heís been playing professionally since he was 14. Are we going to factor that in? And before you say anything about it not being the same, your right it isnít. Euro League players donít travel on charted Jets. They need to worry about having their passports. They need to worry about their safety when in some parts.

Couldnít you say that Donovan Mitchell benefitted from not being a one and done player? I could argue he certainly benefitted because he had an extra year to develop his game.

Why did Kyle Kuzma look so much better early on than Lonzo Ball? Because Kuzma stayed in college longer than Ball and therefor had more time to improve his game.

I know none of that compares to Simmons being in the Sixers building for a year; but thatís likely all part of the conversation that happens over the debate of whatís a rookie. Because all those little things are an advantage that other players (namely 1-and-done) did not have.

If it's their first official season (draft year), they are not a rookie. That is all I am saying. I can care less if they stayed over in college or went to Europe to play professionally. Those were choices they made. Ben didn't make that choice to be injured and he was. Those are hardly the same analogies. None of us know what being an NBA rookie is but we all know how difficult it is to be acclimated into a new environment and then having to perform like a ROTY. If you don't think that is a bigger advantage than anything else (other than being surrounded by NBA players your entire life like Curry was), there is no debate to be had because it's just more denial and excuses from Sixers fans.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 03:39 PM
If it's their first official season (draft year), they are not a rookie. That is all I am saying. I can care less if they stayed over in college or went to Europe to play professionally. Those were choices they made. Ben didn't make that choice to be injured and he was. Those are hardly the same analogies. None of us know what being an NBA rookie is but we all know how difficult it is to be acclimated into a new environment and then having to perform like a ROTY. If you don't think that is a bigger advantage than anything else (other than being surrounded by NBA players your entire life like Curry was), there is no debate to be had because it's just more denial and excuses from Sixers fans.

How is being injured an advantage to on the court though? I didnít say itís wasnít an advantage to be around all of that but you hit at what Iíve been saying since in season:
Those guys chose to have different development clubs. Ben Simmons did not choose to get hurt.

Why should we hold that against him?

warfelg
06-26-2018, 03:52 PM
Tatum was a 1 and done and played his first year. Clearly left out and used Mitchell and Kuzma as examples. I'm ok with it, it's not Simmons fault, it's the NBA'S system. Simmons play was worthy. It's like Ichiro winning rookie of the yr as a 29 or 30 after playing yrs in Japan. He was so good he won MVP too. Can't blame the player, it's the system

I left Tatum out because my point was theyíve had more development time than Tatum by having summers off college to work on their game.

To me this is the same as the age vs potential debate. Mitchell is older, so heís had more time to develop than Tatum. So putting a guy whoís had more time to hone his craft in Mitchell against Tatum, who hasnít, is a similar issue IMO.

Wonder how people felt about David Robinson, going to the Naval Academy for 4 years, Sitting our 2 years for Naval duties, then coming in and winning ROTY in 1990. Larry Bird, who was drafted by the Celtics in 1987, but played one more year in college, then winning the year after. Jerry Lucas had a really strange situation that lead to him being drafted in 1962, played in another league, and won ROTY for the Ď63-Ď64 year. And of course thereís Blake Griffin.

So I think people are saying none of those guys should have been allowed to win since they didnít win the year their draft class were in their first year.

corky831
06-26-2018, 04:02 PM
I left Tatum out because my point was theyíve had more development time than Tatum by having summers off college to work on their game.

To me this is the same as the age vs potential debate. Mitchell is older, so heís had more time to develop than Tatum. So putting a guy whoís had more time to hone his craft in Mitchell against Tatum, who hasnít, is a similar issue IMO.

Wonder how people felt about David Robinson, going to the Naval Academy for 4 years, Sitting our 2 years for Naval duties, then coming in and winning ROTY in 1990. Larry Bird, who was drafted by the Celtics in 1987, but played one more year in college, then winning the year after. Jerry Lucas had a really strange situation that lead to him being drafted in 1962, played in another league, and won ROTY for the Ď63-Ď64 year. And of course thereís Blake Griffin.

So I think people are saying none of those guys should have been allowed to win since they didnít win the year their draft class were in their first year.

So then do you think Tatum should have been ROY this year based off of your assessment? :)

warfelg
06-26-2018, 04:08 PM
So then do you think Tatum should have been ROY this year based off of your assessment? :)

No. Iím saying that there needs to be discussion on all of that if you want to disqualify guys who havenít played a game yet but weíre drafted.

I donít think itís going to be something that changes. 5 times in almost 70 years has this happened. Thatís 1 on average of every 14 year where the ROY isnít from the draft class of the year he won.

BSF101
06-26-2018, 04:11 PM
:laugh:


that was one way to kill any argument you were trying to make.

Is still a stupid rule just san'n.

BSF101
06-26-2018, 04:14 PM
:laugh:


that was one way to kill any argument you were trying to make.


bcuz he didnt play in year 1 lol how is that so hard to comprehend? its been a rule forever, Blake also won after sitting out where was the outrage then? Some wanted to give it to Embiid last year i dont recall crying either.

Still a dumb rule though. OK would he still have gotten it if he had played half of the season last yr?

warfelg
06-26-2018, 04:17 PM
Still a dumb rule though. OK would he still have gotten it if he had played half of the season last yr?

Not likely since that was held against Joel Embiid not playing enough.

Itís why I said with Gobert that this was a real test of how much time you could miss and still be considered for the award. Seems to be about 30-35 games because Curry missed out on 1st team missing only a few more than Gobert.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 04:37 PM
How is being injured an advantage to on the court though? I didnít say itís wasnít an advantage to be around all of that but you hit at what Iíve been saying since in season:
Those guys chose to have different development clubs. Ben Simmons did not choose to get hurt.

Why should we hold that against him?

I assume you just like arguing because I never said he chose to get hurt. He was hurt, period. I never said Ben wasn't the ROTY (I did before Embiid was hurt and Ben closed the season out well) after the season ended. But he's had a clear advantage and that's not debatable. Quit arguing crap like "extra year in college." That's not even comparable to the NBA. Not even close.

TheDish87
06-26-2018, 04:43 PM
Still a dumb rule though. OK would he still have gotten it if he had played half of the season last yr?

no thats not how it works. Randle played 7 mins as a rookie and got credit for stepping court. i dont even think its a stupid rule, either you played your first year or games or you didnt.

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 05:31 PM
What are you? A wanna-be psycholigist? This is a forum site. If you don't want to discuss something, don't type. Mental gymnastics and explanation? Bro, it took me a minute and thirty seconds max to type that. Maybe you have arthritis in your fingers but the most difficulty I had was looking up their record without CP3 because I knew it wasn't great.
But my point stands. You're arguing semantics here with how long it took you to type, but the fact that it was an argument that required that much thought in the first place is the point I was trying to make. I can look at their numbers, how they played all season long and their records and immediately know who should be MVP without jumping into hypotheticals of "Whose team would be better if..." or "What does the word 'valuable' mean?"

And whether you want to admit it or not, you're absolutely doing mental gymnastics here. The answer (that the vast majority of voters agreed with) was staring you in the face. Rather than just admit that there's validity to it, you're completely overlooking the obvious variables right in front of you and pulling on all this little threads to try to poke holes wherever you can.


You're like Tredigs, you know? You blame Tredigs for trying to be "superior and demeaning" but you're actually the same type of individual. If you really don't want to talk about it, don't quote it. Because you're quoting me and then saying that I'm the one pushing it but you could easily avoid it. The temptation is too much for you, ehh?
But I'm not insulting you. At least I can have a conversation and be civil about it.

And I'm not sure why you're taking my reply so personally. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to have an opinion about this or that there's zero validity to your argument. In fact, I've said on numerous occasions that I understand the argument for Lebron (in fact, I literally said it in the post you just replied to). But I'm saying that you're just spinning your wheels on the same take at this point, and it's an argument that requires an insane amount of nitpicking in the first place.

If you want to keep ranting on the "Lebron should be the MVP!!!" wagon, be my guest. You're entitled to do so, but I just don't see the point in it anymore. The voting has happened, you're clearly in the minority, and the season has been over for weeks. The rest of us have moved on to the offseason (which is a far more interesting topic to discuss), and you can't let it go.

As for me responding to you in the first place, isn't that what you wanted? Look at your initial comment a few pages ago: "Harden will get it but LeBron deserves it. Facts." That's the very definition of trolling. You took a clearly minority take that you knew would elicit an emotional response from certain people (probably me) and provided zero context to back it up. So don't talk to me about acting superior or being demeaning when you entered this thread with a clear intention to troll people who disagreed with you.

FlashBolt
06-26-2018, 05:37 PM
But my point stands. You're arguing semantics here with how long it took you to type, but the fact that it was an argument that required that much thought in the first place is the point I was trying to make. I can look at their numbers, how they played all season long and their records and immediately know who should be MVP without jumping into hypotheticals of "Whose team would be better if..." or "What does the word 'valuable' mean?"

And whether you want to admit it or not, you're absolutely doing mental gymnastics here. The answer (that the vast majority of voters agreed with) was staring you in the face. Rather than just admit that there's validity to it, you're completely overlooking the obvious variables right in front of you and pulling on all this little threads to try to poke holes wherever you can.


But I'm not insulting you. At least I can have a conversation and be civil about it.

And I'm not sure why you're taking my reply so personally. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to have an opinion about this or that there's zero validity to your argument. In fact, I've said on numerous occasions that I understand the argument for Lebron (in fact, I literally said it in the post you just replied to). But I'm saying that you're just spinning your wheels on the same take at this point, and it's an argument that requires an insane amount of nitpicking in the first place.

If you want to keep ranting on the "Lebron should be the MVP!!!" wagon, be my guest. You're entitled to do so, but I just don't see the point in it anymore. The voting has happened, you're clearly in the minority, and the season has been over for weeks. The rest of us have moved on to the offseason (which is a far more interesting topic to discuss), and you can't let it go.

As for me responding to you in the first place, isn't that what you wanted? Look at your initial comment a few pages ago: "Harden will get it but LeBron deserves it. Facts." That's the very definition of trolling. You took a clearly minority take that you knew would elicit an emotional response from certain people (probably me) and provided zero context to back it up. So don't talk to me about acting superior or being demeaning when you entered this thread with a clear intention to troll people who disagreed with you.

Just because someone else gets it doesn't mean another doesn't deserve it. I'm not sure what difficulty you have. But go ahead. Keep thinking you're civil when you're more like Tre's behavior than anything else. You just typed longer than I ever had in this thread. I really have no idea what you're trying to prove here. You come in being condescending of any other opinion and then act like you're civil when someone calls you out for being a total d-bag. You're a d-bag, dude. Get over yourself. I said LeBron deserved it and gave my reasoning. If you disagree with it, that's fine. Harden didn't win it unanimously. When Curry won it unanimously, it was deserved and nothing can be argued against it. Some did vote for LeBron as MVP. So I'm not allowed to have a minority position and heavily support it? According to whom? You? MBT, the guy who dictates who and what is right around here. Is that how you perceive yourself? You can't fool me so try another one.

valade16
06-26-2018, 06:18 PM
How do we put into context that LeBron straight up quit for like 1/4 of the season?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/splits/2018

Dude averages 23/7/7 in January despite averaging 27+/8+/8+ every month except to start and end the season. In January he had a -8.3 +/-.

warfelg
06-26-2018, 06:30 PM
I assume you just like arguing because I never said he chose to get hurt. He was hurt, period. I never said Ben wasn't the ROTY (I did before Embiid was hurt and Ben closed the season out well) after the season ended. But he's had a clear advantage and that's not debatable. Quit arguing crap like "extra year in college." That's not even comparable to the NBA. Not even close.

Ah so where you got the extra development matters not that you got it. Cool. Just name it first time professional of the year. Screw the Europe guys too because they got the same advantage of getting paid. Only way to keep it fair for those poor college kids.

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 06:40 PM
Just because someone else gets it doesn't mean another doesn't deserve it. I'm not sure what difficulty you have. But go ahead. Keep thinking you're civil when you're more like Tre's behavior than anything else. You just typed longer than I ever had in this thread. I really have no idea what you're trying to prove here. You come in being condescending of any other opinion and then act like you're civil when someone calls you out for being a total d-bag. You're a d-bag, dude. Get over yourself. I said LeBron deserved it and gave my reasoning. If you disagree with it, that's fine. Harden didn't win it unanimously. When Curry won it unanimously, it was deserved and nothing can be argued against it. Some did vote for LeBron as MVP. So I'm not allowed to have a minority position and heavily support it? According to whom? You? MBT, the guy who dictates who and what is right around here. Is that how you perceive yourself? You can't fool me so try another one.

You know what.... I had a wall of text and was about to hit "reply," but I'm done. I wrote a lot in the previous post because I thought you were someone who was worthy of a conversation and a well though-out response. I clearly misjudged you, as you have no interest in responding to my actual points or being civil. When you can calm down and talk sports like a mature adult again, you let me know.

mightybosstone
06-26-2018, 06:43 PM
Back on topic, but as happy as I was for Harden to win MVP last night, I might be even happier to see Morey win Executive of the Year. It's mind blowing to me that he's never won the award. He's probably one of the 10 best GMs in all of professional sports and has built a 65-win contender over the last 6-7 years from a 40-win team with few assets and no top 10 picks.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2018, 07:31 PM
I assume you just like arguing because I never said he chose to get hurt. He was hurt, period. I never said Ben wasn't the ROTY (I did before Embiid was hurt and Ben closed the season out well) after the season ended. But he's had a clear advantage and that's not debatable. Quit arguing crap like "extra year in college." That's not even comparable to the NBA. Not even close.


There is still an advantage for 2nd and 3rd year collage players AND ESP OVERSEAS PLAYERS that play in an actual league and not this collage BS... There is still an advantage and yes id argue as much of an advantage as being hurt your entire first year in the NBA where you arent in basketball shape like these athletes are after summer league... There is many variables that go into it and if we are going to hold a rookie not playing because he is injured his first year against the award then we damn sure better call it a true rookie award and it only goes to guys 1 year out of collage without any overseas eligibility period. Advantages are advantages nomatter how big or small.

valade16
06-26-2018, 07:33 PM
[/B]

There is still an advantage for 2nd and 3rd year collage players AND ESP OVERSEAS PLAYERS that play in an actual league and not this collage BS... There is still an advantage and yes id argue as much of an advantage as being hurt your entire first year in the NBA where you arent in basketball shape like these athletes are after summer league... There is many variables that go into it and if we are going to hold a rookie not playing because he is injured his first year against the award then we damn sure better call it a true rookie award and it only goes to guys 1 year out of collage without any overseas eligibility period. Advantages are advantages nomatter how big or small.

He wasn't in shape to start the season?

More-Than-Most
06-26-2018, 07:35 PM
He wasn't in shape to start the season?

in shape and in basketball shape are 2 very different things. He didnt even travel with the team a ton of the time or take part in practices/workouts for months. There is in shape and in basketball shape which is a pretty big deal.

TrueFan420
06-26-2018, 07:52 PM
you saying he isnt a rookie or ROY is wrong. how didnt you get that?

Did he not get paid by the 76ers last year? Did his contract start this year? Cause if he did got paid and it didn't start this year he's not a rookie. By the rules of the ROY award you can be a redshirt sophomore and win the award. Which is what it is but that doesn't mean he's a rookie.

More-Than-Most
06-26-2018, 09:52 PM
Did he not get paid by the 76ers last year? Did his contract start this year? Cause if he did got paid and it didn't start this year he's not a rookie. By the rules of the ROY award you can be a redshirt sophomore and win the award. Which is what it is but that doesn't mean he's a rookie.

when you draft a player and pay him and he goes overseas is he not a rookie when he plays his first minute in the NBA?

Dario saric for example. Exactly.

lakerfan85
06-26-2018, 11:54 PM
Wasnít Saric bought out from wherever he was playing? His contract with the 76ers wouldnít have started until he signed with them right?

More-Than-Most
06-27-2018, 12:04 AM
Wasnít Saric bought out from wherever he was playing? His contract with the 76ers wouldnít have started until he signed with them right?

maybe. I thought you get special bonuses and what not drafted that high. I know 2nd rounders get shipped off but i figured top 10 picks were guaranteed or whatever.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2018, 12:07 AM
maybe. I thought you get special bonuses and what not drafted that high. I know 2nd rounders get shipped off but i figured top 10 picks were guaranteed or whatever.

also nomatter what playing over there still makes you a rookie when you come back here which is a clear advantage.

Saddletramp
06-27-2018, 02:59 AM
when you draft a player and pay him and he goes overseas is he not a rookie when he plays his first minute in the NBA?

Dario saric for example. Exactly.

When a guy gets drafted but goes/stays overseas, heís a rookie when he comes into the NBA. Youíre not a ďrookieĒ playing in any level except your very first year in an organization. Second year guys shouldnít be allowed to win rookie (first year) awards. But if the NBA allows it, then they allow it. But yeah, traveling/working out/getting paid and adjusting to your new team and city/learning the playbook and garnering team unity.....itís just a huge advantage. But if thems the rules, then thems the rules. Everything thatís been said to defend it is out of whack except for the fact that the NBA allows it. The rule is on Ben Simmonsí side, just let it go.


Also, Saric was a rookie in the NBA when he played for an NBA team for the first time, not while he was playing elsewhere.

Saddletramp
06-27-2018, 03:05 AM
also nomatter what playing over there still makes you a rookie when you come back here which is a clear advantage.


Nope. Pablo Prigioni was a 36 year old rookie because, while he played pro ball for decades, his rookie year was his first year in the NBA.


ROTY is an ďNBAĒ award, not a ďbasketballĒ award. When youíre on a team, your first year should be your rookie year, wether you play or not. And if the rumor is true that he was cleared to play but wanted to sit out the year just so he could win the ROTY this past year? Thatís embarrassing. If thatís proven to be true Iíll lose a lot of respect for him.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2018, 03:39 AM
again for the 1000th time... you cant have it both ways... you cant spew competitive advantage as your reasoning and be ok with guys overseas being ROY eligible or 2nd year or 3rd year collage players... Its widely regaurded just how good the overseas leagues are compared to collage which is why YET AGAIN if we are going to bring up how ben simmons isnt a true rookie because he was able to sit a year and follow the team etc etc but not actually play then roy should only ever be any player drafted in the US with only 1 year of collage exp and when they allow kids to be drafted right out of highschool then a true rookie should be a kid right out of highschool.

Saddletramp
06-27-2018, 05:20 AM
again for the 1000th time... you cant have it both ways... you cant spew competitive advantage as your reasoning and be ok with guys overseas being ROY eligible or 2nd year or 3rd year collage players... Its widely regaurded just how good the overseas leagues are compared to collage which is why YET AGAIN if we are going to bring up how ben simmons isnt a true rookie because he was able to sit a year and follow the team etc etc but not actually play then roy should only ever be any player drafted in the US with only 1 year of collage exp and when they allow kids to be drafted right out of highschool then a true rookie should be a kid right out of highschool.

Overseas ainít the NBA, bro. College, high school, G League, overseas......none of that matters. What matters is being on the team. Was he a part of the 15 man roster last year? Was Tatum with the Celtics? Was Donovan with the Jazz?

But again, when this gets brought up, just say the rules are the rules. I personally think itís ******** and others do as well, but if thatís what the NBA wants.....and itís ultinately their call, then so be it. Iím not a Cís, Jazz or Sixers fan and I could care less who won.

More-Than-Most
06-27-2018, 06:44 AM
Overseas ainít the NBA, bro. College, high school, G League, overseas......none of that matters. What matters is being on the team. Was he a part of the 15 man roster last year? Was Tatum with the Celtics? Was Donovan with the Jazz?

But again, when this gets brought up, just say the rules are the rules. I personally think itís ******** and others do as well, but if thatís what the NBA wants.....and itís ultinately their call, then so be it. Iím not a Cís, Jazz or Sixers fan and I could care less who won.

So let me make sure i am understanding this... a dude not playing for a year and not being able to partake in workouts etc and was hurt and out of game shape has a competitive advantage over guys from collage because he traveled with the team and watched the team but guys who are in collage for multiple years or guys who play overseas IN AN ACTUAL LEAGUE A TOUGH LEAGUE dont have a competitive advantage over guys that are 1 and done players?

I will wait for an answer

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 08:56 AM
Did he not get paid by the 76ers last year? Did his contract start this year? Cause if he did got paid and it didn't start this year he's not a rookie. By the rules of the ROY award you can be a redshirt sophomore and win the award. Which is what it is but that doesn't mean he's a rookie.

well they dont award guys for getting paid lol not sure how rhats relevant at all.

Lil Rhody
06-27-2018, 09:05 AM
Agree with the results except COTY

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

prodigy
06-27-2018, 10:35 AM
Your problem though is with the NBA not Ben, yet very few who disagree with him are talking about that part....

I have no issue at all with Ben. I think he is a really good player. Prob be MVP level player once he develops a jump shot. I just don't see how he is a rookie after being paid by an NBA team, going through practices, training, traveling etc...

prodigy
06-27-2018, 10:44 AM
again, no outrage for Blake winning when he was cleared much sooner.

Explain how you know this. Go ahead. I'll wait...

Unless you can explain to me how this system is fair i think we are done here. Nothing against Ben, the NBA system sucks. Explain how a guy whos on a teams roster, travels, studies, trains, practices with an NBA team, collects paychecks and gets a huge jump on the plays, sits front row is still a rookie the following year lol.

warfelg
06-27-2018, 10:44 AM
I have no issue at all with Ben. I think he is a really good player. Prob be MVP level player once he develops a jump shot. I just don't see how he is a rookie after being paid by an NBA team, going through practices, training, traveling etc...

Feel free to send a letter to the NBA then.

warfelg
06-27-2018, 10:45 AM
Explain how you know this. Go ahead. I'll wait...

Unless you can explain to me how this system is fair i think we are done here. Nothing against Ben, the NBA system sucks. Explain how a guy whos on a teams roster, travels, studies, trains, practices with an NBA team, collects paychecks and gets a huge jump on the plays, sits front row is still a rookie the following year lol.

How did you feel about David Robinsons ROY then?

mightybosstone
06-27-2018, 10:51 AM
Agree with the results except COTY

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Yeah, me too. Toronto improved a little last season, but the jobs that Stevens and Snyder did seem so much more impressive given the challenges they dealt with last year. And given how poorly the Raptors did in the playoffs and Casey's subsequent firing, that award looks even worse. Yet another reason why announcing these awards so late is completely absurd...

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 11:01 AM
Explain how you know this. Go ahead. I'll wait...

Unless you can explain to me how this system is fair i think we are done here. Nothing against Ben, the NBA system sucks. Explain how a guy whos on a teams roster, travels, studies, trains, practices with an NBA team, collects paychecks and gets a huge jump on the plays, sits front row is still a rookie the following year lol.

Blake tore his ACL thats a much faster recovery then a Jones fracture. Ben didnt travel for like 75% of the season (not an advantage), didnt train or practice for the majority of the season due to said injury and rehab (no real advantage), i dont know why youre so hung up on the being paid thing i find it comical and have nothing to say about that. So basically you think sitting courtside at a pro game i some huge advantage.

Chronz
06-27-2018, 12:14 PM
Harden deserved it, bron would've won if Isaiah wasn't such trash

prodigy
06-27-2018, 01:35 PM
Feel free to send a letter to the NBA then.

I don't really care that much. Just like to debate in a NBA forum meant for debating lol. I'm sure NBA knows anyway. prob just depends how they can make more money.

Jamiecballer
06-27-2018, 01:36 PM
again for the 1000th time... you cant have it both ways... you cant spew competitive advantage as your reasoning and be ok with guys overseas being ROY eligible or 2nd year or 3rd year collage players... Its widely regaurded just how good the overseas leagues are compared to collage which is why YET AGAIN if we are going to bring up how ben simmons isnt a true rookie because he was able to sit a year and follow the team etc etc but not actually play then roy should only ever be any player drafted in the US with only 1 year of collage exp and when they allow kids to be drafted right out of highschool then a true rookie should be a kid right out of highschool.

my answer is very clear cut. i think your rookie year should be the year you are drafted. if you aren't ready to play in your first season because you are hurt, tough luck. if you are not ready to play because you aren't even ready to play in the NBA and are stashed overseas then you shouldn't be the rookie of the year anyway! of course that will never happen because the NBA no doubt loves the amount of controversy this stirred.

prodigy
06-27-2018, 01:44 PM
Blake tore his ACL thats a much faster recovery then a Jones fracture. Ben didnt travel for like 75% of the season (not an advantage), didnt train or practice for the majority of the season due to said injury and rehab (no real advantage), i dont know why youre so hung up on the being paid thing i find it comical and have nothing to say about that. So basically you think sitting courtside at a pro game i some huge advantage.

When you get paid by somebody that means you work for them. Simmons had a job last season.

Pro athletes are always training. Very rarely is someone completely shut down. couple weeks after surgery maybe but after that players start grinding anyway. so leg injury you work the top, top you work the legs etc... Gordon Hayward was putting up shots with a cast on his leg lol. Training also takes effect in the film room. Working with top notch NBA people as other posters have already mentioned.

I'm pretty much done here. We can agree to disagree. Simmons is the ROTY congrats to him he had a very good season. But the system sucks and needs fixed. Each draft class should have a rookie of the year.

prodigy
06-27-2018, 01:46 PM
my answer is very clear cut. i think your rookie year should be the year you are drafted. if you aren't ready to play in your first season because you are hurt, tough luck. if you are not ready to play because you aren't even ready to play in the NBA and are stashed overseas then you shouldn't be the rookie of the year anyway! of course that will never happen because the NBA no doubt loves the amount of controversy this stirred.

agree

mightybosstone
06-27-2018, 01:57 PM
On this Rookie of the Year conversation, I'd be fine with the NBA adapting something similar to what MLB does. Now, granted, baseball is a little different because you can get called up to the majors at any time, but they don't consider a player a rookie unless that player crosses a certain threshold of at-bats, innings pitched and/or days on an active MLB roster.

For the NBA, that would obviously have to look different. But suppose they said, "Then you have to be medically cleared to play at least 30 regular season games for the season to be considered your rookie year." That doesn't mean you played in 30 games, but if you are medically healthy enough to play minutes in an NBA game and don't, for whatever reason, then there should be a threshold at some point that counts against you and prevents you from getting the award next year.

That would also help for players who are stashed overseas and don't come over to the NBA for a couple of years, because they wouldn't be able to play in an NBA game if they weren't on the actual roster.

Saddletramp
06-27-2018, 02:00 PM
So let me make sure i am understanding this... a dude not playing for a year and not being able to partake in workouts etc and was hurt and out of game shape has a competitive advantage over guys from collage because he traveled with the team and watched the team but guys who are in collage for multiple years or guys who play overseas IN AN ACTUAL LEAGUE A TOUGH LEAGUE dont have a competitive advantage over guys that are 1 and done players?

I will wait for an answer

Yes. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE.



Jesus, itís an NBA award, not a World Basketball Award. You get hurt your rookie year? Well, thatís your rookie year. Are you taking up a roster spot? Are you on the team? Then boom, itís your rookie year.

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 02:14 PM
When you get paid by somebody that means you work for them. Simmons had a job last season.

Pro athletes are always training. Very rarely is someone completely shut down. couple weeks after surgery maybe but after that players start grinding anyway. so leg injury you work the top, top you work the legs etc... Gordon Hayward was putting up shots with a cast on his leg lol. Training also takes effect in the film room. Working with top notch NBA people as other posters have already mentioned.

I'm pretty much done here. We can agree to disagree. Simmons is the ROTY congrats to him he had a very good season. But the system sucks and needs fixed. Each draft class should have a rookie of the year.

see rather Simmons won or not i think the system is fine. the award is based on being on the floor physically for your first season, i have no issue with that. i dont get why people are up in arms over it, its no where the advantage some try to make it sound like.

Firefistus
06-27-2018, 02:27 PM
There was an interesting discussion on First Take today that got me thinking. These awards are based on the regular season performance. And up until last year they were announced before the playoffs started. But now that the awards happen with an award show after the playoffs are finished, some people think that the post season should be included. And that the voting should be done after the whole thing.

I normally wouldn't care either way, but with them giving out these awards after the NBA draft, the season feels like an eternity ago. I would have to agree with this narrative though.

The Coach of the year coaches for a completely different team now. Donovan Mitchell and Tatum outplayed Simmons in the playoffs, and LeBron was clearly the best player in the league. And the playoffs was when these things were realized.

If you would put playoffs into the mix than Capella would have at least been in the conversation for DPoY. Brad Stevens would probably have won CoTY, LeBron would for sure have won MVP, and the RoTY award would have been a lot closer. I like the idea the more I think about it. But mainly for me it's because they have the stupid award show after everything. If they pulled the award show before the playoffs than fine, but they don't.

Chronz
06-27-2018, 02:52 PM
Is Roy going to sway any debate? Then who cares

Chronz
06-27-2018, 02:53 PM
There was an interesting discussion on First Take today that got me thinking. These awards are based on the regular season performance. And up until last year they were announced before the playoffs started. But now that the awards happen with an award show after the playoffs are finished, some people think that the post season should be included. And that the voting should be done after the whole thing.

I normally wouldn't care either way, but with them giving out these awards after the NBA draft, the season feels like an eternity ago. I would have to agree with this narrative though.

The Coach of the year coaches for a completely different team now. Donovan Mitchell and Tatum outplayed Simmons in the playoffs, and LeBron was clearly the best player in the league. And the playoffs was when these things were realized.

If you would put playoffs into the mix than Capella would have at least been in the conversation for DPoY. Brad Stevens would probably have won CoTY, LeBron would for sure have won MVP, and the RoTY award would have been a lot closer. I like the idea the more I think about it. But mainly for me it's because they have the stupid award show after everything. If they pulled the award show before the playoffs than fine, but they don't.
So long as it's a rs award, people should know nobody really gives a ****. If they want a show, they should include the litmus test that is the playoffs

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 02:54 PM
playoffs should not be included at all. that limits the pool of deserving players and ceratin players/teams get favorable matchups

Chronz
06-27-2018, 02:54 PM
see rather Simmons won or not i think the system is fine. the award is based on being on the floor physically for your first season, i have no issue with that. i dont get why people are up in arms over it, its no where the advantage some try to make it sound like.

It's an advantage that leads the current Roy to say without hesitation, that he's better now than his actual rookie season

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 02:58 PM
not sure how you can prove that if he didnt play due to injury. thats a setback in development.

Firefistus
06-27-2018, 03:31 PM
playoffs should not be included at all. that limits the pool of deserving players and ceratin players/teams get favorable matchups

I would agree with you, IF the award show was after the regular season and before the playoffs, but it's not. It was idiotic that the coach of the year no longer played for the team he won coach of the year for.

The NBA is changing, and this is one of those things that should be changed with it.

TheDish87
06-27-2018, 04:11 PM
why does it matter when they air it? its about them keeping the league in the news cycle during a dead period. All of the leagues do this. The NHL has been over since before the NBA and just did theirs too. Baseball waits til after the first round of the playoffs i believe, same with NFL right before Super Bowl.

nastynice
06-27-2018, 04:50 PM
Harden deserved it, bron would've won if Isaiah wasn't such trash

Isiah who? Thomas?

Wasn't dude like the #5 mvp vote getter last year?

Firefistus
06-27-2018, 05:15 PM
why does it matter when they air it? its about them keeping the league in the news cycle during a dead period. All of the leagues do this. The NHL has been over since before the NBA and just did theirs too. Baseball waits til after the first round of the playoffs i believe, same with NFL right before Super Bowl.

If you can't see that it was an awkward situation where the coach that won coach of the year doesn't talk about thanking his team or family, but instead talks about being fired and his new job than I can't help you in life.

You obviously are trying to defend the 76ers RoTY, and that's fine. Honestly, I thought Simmons deserved it this year. But this has nothing to do with that.

What I'm saying, the thing that keeps getting brought up, is that a lot of things happen in between when the awards are, and when they are voted on. Show me on the trophy where it says "Defensive Player of the Year for the regular season of 2017-18".

It doesn't. It was for the regular season because they handed them out before the playoffs started. They don't do that anymore.

As I stated before, I would agree if they were presented earlier, but they're not.

nastynice
06-27-2018, 05:25 PM
If you can't see that it was an awkward situation where the coach that won coach of the year doesn't talk about thanking his team or family, but instead talks about being fired and his new job than I can't help you in life.


lol, that musta felt weird for everyone involved..

FlashBolt
06-27-2018, 05:49 PM
If you can't see that it was an awkward situation where the coach that won coach of the year doesn't talk about thanking his team or family, but instead talks about being fired and his new job than I can't help you in life.

You obviously are trying to defend the 76ers RoTY, and that's fine. Honestly, I thought Simmons deserved it this year. But this has nothing to do with that.

What I'm saying, the thing that keeps getting brought up, is that a lot of things happen in between when the awards are, and when they are voted on. Show me on the trophy where it says "Defensive Player of the Year for the regular season of 2017-18".

It doesn't. It was for the regular season because they handed them out before the playoffs started. They don't do that anymore.

As I stated before, I would agree if they were presented earlier, but they're not.

It should be done right before the Finals where there is a few days.. And by that, I mean there shouldn't be an award and it should be done as it was previously. Rudy Gobert looked so awkward there. These guys are professional NBA players and having them stand up in front of everyone talking about an award when their season ended two months ago is just silly and embarrassing.

nastynice
06-27-2018, 05:57 PM
I don't get why they changed it to begin with. The timing was perfect. Harden woulda officially been an mvp in our series. Simmons 2nd year *** woulda been playing vs Boston as roty

cmellofan15
06-27-2018, 10:26 PM
Lmao people are out here arguing with legitimate facts. Harden is MVP and Simmons is ROY and if you believe any differently you are an idiot.

Jamiecballer
06-27-2018, 10:38 PM
how about this compromise, i'm just throwing this out there. Harden is the MVP. Simmons won Rookie of the Year. And the best rookie is Donovan Mitchell. everybody wins.

prodigy
06-28-2018, 08:48 AM
see rather Simmons won or not i think the system is fine. the award is based on being on the floor physically for your first season, i have no issue with that. i dont get why people are up in arms over it, its no where the advantage some try to make it sound like.

If you are drafted in the 2010 season but win rookie of the year for the 2011 season thats my issue. pretty clear to understand lol. If you like this system thats ur opinion and perfectly fine. I also believe its a pretty good advantage to take part in everything the NBA offers from coaching, film rooms, training staff, lifestyle even if you are not able to play. Although Simmons was cleared to play and got to experience many practices and court time with his team.

we agree to disagree. Good talks as always.

I'm always open minded and willing to change my opinion if i hear a great argument.

TheDish87
06-28-2018, 09:05 AM
If you can't see that it was an awkward situation where the coach that won coach of the year doesn't talk about thanking his team or family, but instead talks about being fired and his new job than I can't help you in life.

You obviously are trying to defend the 76ers RoTY, and that's fine. Honestly, I thought Simmons deserved it this year. But this has nothing to do with that.

What I'm saying, the thing that keeps getting brought up, is that a lot of things happen in between when the awards are, and when they are voted on. Show me on the trophy where it says "Defensive Player of the Year for the regular season of 2017-18".

It doesn't. It was for the regular season because they handed them out before the playoffs started. They don't do that anymore.

As I stated before, I would agree if they were presented earlier, but they're not.

its no less awkward than George Karl winning it and getting fired after. the timing of it is irrelevant and i dont get why you are hung up in it when its simply just to get some attention ina slow period before the off season starts. Im also not sure how this has anything to do with Simmons? we werent talking about him nor did i tie him into this. the award voting is done in the reg season and the deadline for votes is made public its not that difficult you are reaching for something that simply isnt there. no one cares about these award ceremonies, the league just wants any little bit of attention they can get, like i said literally every league does it this way.

prodigy
06-29-2018, 09:47 AM
Lmao people are out here arguing with legitimate facts. Harden is MVP and Simmons is ROY and if you believe any differently you are an idiot.

You sound like an idiot. Clearly simmons is ROY and Harden is MVP. but people disagree and are expressing why lol. Welcome to a sports forum this is what happens.

cmellofan15
06-30-2018, 11:30 AM
You sound like an idiot. Clearly simmons is ROY and Harden is MVP. but people disagree and are expressing why lol. Welcome to a sports forum this is what happens.

Lmao i sound like an idiot for stating facts? You can argue until your blue in the face about whether the right decision was made, but to say these people didnít win the award is as idiotic as you replying to my comment as if i was disparaging debate or something :laugh2:

But itís okay, your feelings were prolly hurt by my initial comment as one of the people are under that umbrella, so i understand sweetheart.

FlashBolt
06-30-2018, 02:36 PM
Lmao i sound like an idiot for stating facts? You can argue until your blue in the face about whether the right decision was made, but to say these people didnít win the award is as idiotic as you replying to my comment as if i was disparaging debate or something :laugh2:

But itís okay, your feelings were prolly hurt by my initial comment as one of the people are under that umbrella, so i understand sweetheart.

What facts? I haven't seen any. It's been your opinion the entire time.

prodigy
06-30-2018, 02:54 PM
Lmao i sound like an idiot for stating facts? You can argue until your blue in the face about whether the right decision was made, but to say these people didnít win the award is as idiotic as you replying to my comment as if i was disparaging debate or something :laugh2:

But itís okay, your feelings were prolly hurt by my initial comment as one of the people are under that umbrella, so i understand sweetheart.

I just said they did? lmao im confused. My beef is the system sucks. If you don't wanna debate topics why are you in a debating forum?