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View Full Version : Magic fire Frank Vogel



warfelg
04-12-2018, 09:33 AM
Per Woj and Tweets.

Scoots
04-12-2018, 09:38 AM
I don't know what is wrong with Orlando. It doesn't seem to matter who is GM, Coach, or the players ... maybe it's the owner?

JAZZNC
04-12-2018, 09:42 AM
I don't know what is wrong with Orlando. It doesn't seem to matter who is GM, Coach, or the players ... maybe it's the owner?

Ever since they let Shaq get away it hasn't been pretty. They had a decent little run with Howard but even that couldn't be sustained.

warfelg
04-12-2018, 09:46 AM
I don't know what is wrong with Orlando. It doesn't seem to matter who is GM, Coach, or the players ... maybe it's the owner?

Eh. This year and last year was a real miss-mash of players. Last year they tried that Gordon-Ibaka-Vuc thing. This year they seemed to never solidify a rotation. They seem suck between wanting to be a space and pace; and big boy bruiser ball.

Then they got 2 harder to move contracts in Fournier and Vucivic. And they are in a hard place with Gordon. He's likely to get offered a max or near max from someone and he's not worth it. But he's also the best player they have and can't just let him walk.

I hate that the NBA has taken away the S&T ability in the offseason because that really hurts a team like this.

I think if I were them; I would pull off something like the Clippers-Rickets move. Get him to buy into signing the tender with the ability to extend later (I don't even think that exists so again stupid NBA); trade him with Fournier to someone. Get picks/players. Embrace one year of sucktatude, let Isaac shine (if he can), and build from there.

LeonFSU
04-12-2018, 10:34 AM
I don't see Orlando getting much better anytime soon. The idea of resigning Griffin to move him with a bad contract (Biyombo or Fournier) sounds okay, but that's a lot of money to move so it may not be that easy. Vucevic is on his last year at ~$12M so I think they could trade him fairly easily (but they wouldn't get much).

Biyombo and Fournier are the worst contracts on the team. I don't think Biyombo can be traded without adding a pick or Gordon if resigned or Isaac, so I think they're better off keeping him till he expires. Fournier should be moved, not to free up cap space so much as to just give other guys playing time. He's a bench player or sixth man at best who has been playing way too much. Hezonja won't be back. Hard to see Isaac being ready to be productive next year; I think it'll take another season at least. I expect them to be really bad for awhile and try to rebuild around Isaac and whoever they draft in the lottery the next two years.

IndyRealist
04-12-2018, 11:29 AM
Wow they have some terrible contracts. $30m between 2 centers, $17m to Fournier, $10m to Ross, $7m to DJ freakin' Augustin for the next two years. Sheesh.

I don't think that's on Vogel unless he said "keep Biyombo and Fournier, even if they ask for $17m each". Just a poorly constructed team.

I wouldn't pay Gordon given his growth was fueled almost entirely by unrealistic shooting numbers on a small sample size. Orlando can still facilitate a sign and trade, since he's restricted, and at least get something back. Perferably not matching salary, though. Sheesh.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-12-2018, 11:41 AM
They've had this same core now for what seems like an eternity mixed in with terrible contracts. The sad part about this year is, they weren't even tanking for most of the year and are just that bad. They need a Sam Hinkie type rebuild

Westbrook36
04-12-2018, 12:01 PM
Almost all of the teams that spent during the 2016-2017 off season are kicking themselves now. Extremely poor use of cap space for so many teams during that huge spike in cap.

Stan Van Gundy should be next..The GM/Coach combo does not work unless you are brilliant and he's shelled out tons of high paying contracts to bench players.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-12-2018, 02:57 PM
Now Aaron Gordon says he wants a max contract with the Magic. Biggest mistake Orlando could make.

IndyRealist
04-12-2018, 03:16 PM
Now Aaron Gordon says he wants a max contract with the Magic. Biggest mistake Orlando could make.

Orlando's max is higher than everyone else's for him. I'd say that too.

Does anyone see Gordon as a max player?

ManRam
04-12-2018, 03:51 PM
Vogel's tenure with the Magic will be remembered by me, a Magic fan, as the two years that I paid the least attention to the team. So for that, thank you, Coach Vogel.

HeartOfStarks
04-12-2018, 03:58 PM
Say they draft Trae Young and end up with a Young-Fournier-Hezonja-Gordon-Isaac group as their starting 5... is that still hopeless? Defense would be pretty bad I guess but it seemed like Hezonja and Gordon both improved this season (on offense at least)? I don't know I don't follow them super closely or anything just asking.

ManRam
04-12-2018, 04:00 PM
I don't know what is wrong with Orlando. It doesn't seem to matter who is GM, Coach, or the players ... maybe it's the owner?

The De Vos are cancer!

But seriously, it's just a failed rebuild and that's going to happen more often than not. Coaching never mattered because the talent always stunk. I don't blame coaching at all. Vaughn and Skiles were easy scapegoats, but with Vogel - a hire that finally the fans were enthusiastic about - the team still stunk and has me thinking it never mattered who was in charge. It's more comforting to blame coaching than the players because you wanna believe in the players. Nope. Shoulda been a pessimist like me!

Terrible draft luck is the biggest culprit. Looks a little less bad with the year Oladipo had, but that was (again, before he broke out) a terrible year to have any high draft pick. Look at who went 1st! In 2014 they had the third most ping pong balls but landed the 4th pick in a 3-man draft class. They picked 5th in 2015, one pick after Porzingis. I hate Mario and don't care if he walks, but the next guys taken suck too. More bad draft luck.

Oladipo, Embiid, Porzingis...now you're onto something. Nope.

Never bottomed out enough to get the draft luck Philly got. Bad trades doomed everything.

A failed rebuild. It happens.

HeartOfStarks
04-12-2018, 04:27 PM
Talking about Gordon a bit in the Knicks forum, so some are saying Isaac actually seems like more of a 3...

Again I just think there’s a good shot Magic go PG in this draft, and I do think Trae Young, if he pans out, has the potential to be special. I know Magic look bad now but Young-Fournier-Isaac-Gordon... I mean it could be something maybe. Will be interesting to see where Gordon ends up.

LaVar Ball
04-13-2018, 10:05 AM
The real cancer is Orlando CEO Alex Martins. He’s been that lingering cancer for so many years in that franchise.

Vinylman
04-13-2018, 10:11 AM
Now Aaron Gordon says he wants a max contract with the Magic. Biggest mistake Orlando could make.

no need ... just match other offers or let him play for the QO