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View Full Version : Rank these MVP seasons by Least and Most deserving



valade16
04-10-2018, 12:45 PM
Which season do you think was most impressive/least impressive and which order would you put them in of least deserving and most deserving?

2017 Russell Westbrook
2011 Derrick Rose
2005 (and/or) 2006 Steve Nash
2001 Allen Iverson

FlashBolt
04-10-2018, 12:48 PM
1) Russ
2) AI
3) D.Rose
4) Nash

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 12:58 PM
1) Russ
2) AI
3) D.Rose
4) Nash

This. Rose MVP was a highway robbery, but Nash MVP's were pretty bad. If anything, a 22 year old Amare was probably a better candidate for the '05 MVP

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2005.html#per_game::none

YAALREADYKNO
04-10-2018, 01:00 PM
1. White Iverson
2. Westbrook
3. Rose
4. Nash

COOLbeans
04-10-2018, 02:26 PM
Iverson (by a mile)
Westbrook (earned and deserved)
Nash (MIP? He was balling though and they overachieved the entire season and he was the general)
Rose (great season but he was being setup to be the new nba darling)

FlashBolt
04-10-2018, 06:47 PM
I considered Iverson but what steered me away from it is the fact Rose did something no other player (Magic included) has done in the modern era of NBA. No one thought it would be possible from a PG of his size. We expected LeBron to do it and that was pretty much it.

But also the fact that a few perimeter players during Iverson's time could have duplicated his performance. Any doubt as to whether T-Mac, Kobe, and even Vince couldn't do just as well? I think they would have been better options outside Vince. Timmy D was my MVP that season.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-10-2018, 10:15 PM
Which season do you think was most impressive/least impressive and which order would you put them in of least deserving and most deserving?

2017 Russell Westbrook
2011 Derrick Rose
2005 (and/or) 2006 Steve Nash
2001 Allen Iverson

They're all pretty ****.

They all won for things I stand against.

valade16
04-10-2018, 10:58 PM
They're all pretty ****.

They all won for things I stand against.

I think they are interesting comparisons because they are among the "weakest" MVPs in history and they were all given to PGs post 2000. I'm wondering if the playing style inflated the stats to allow guards to win so many "undeserved" MVPs.

The only time I can recall a weaker stretch of MVPs is in the 70's when big men were winning it left and right (Bellamy, Cowens, Reed, Walton, etc.), and I wonder if the playing style also had an impact on how many of them won it that may not have deserved it.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-10-2018, 11:03 PM
I think they are interesting comparisons because they are among the "weakest" MVPs in history and they were all given to PGs post 2000. I'm wondering if the playing style inflated the stats to allow guards to win so many "undeserved" MVPs.

The only time I can recall a weaker stretch of MVPs is in the 70's when big men were winning it left and right (Bellamy, Cowens, Reed, Walton, etc.), and I wonder if the playing style also had an impact on how many of them won it that may not have deserved it.

If I did have to pick someone who was the most deserving, it would probably be Westy. I would probably pick Nash's MVP as the weakest. Love Nash more than any of those guys but something about his performance seems underwhelming to actually win MVP. But this is going off memory right now.

COOLbeans
04-10-2018, 11:14 PM
anyone who doesnt consider iverson an all time great or deserving of that MVP doesnt know basketball. They should just be quiet and pick up another sport.

LOb0
04-10-2018, 11:14 PM
Iverson
Rose
Westbrook
Nash

FlashBolt
04-10-2018, 11:49 PM
anyone who doesnt consider iverson an all time great or deserving of that MVP doesnt know basketball. They should just be quiet and pick up another sport.

Right. Cause you know basketball. lol.

COOLbeans
04-11-2018, 02:12 AM
Right. Cause you know basketball. lol.

Whatís that lol supposed to mean? And why are you always sticking up for other posters? Are these your friends flashbolt?

The reason this forum sucks now is because of posters like you and your friends posting nonsense like Iverson didnít deserve an MVP. Blatant ignorance and disrespect.

Like I said you just need to be quiet

FlashBolt
04-11-2018, 12:22 PM
Whatís that lol supposed to mean? And why are you always sticking up for other posters? Are these your friends flashbolt?

The reason this forum sucks now is because of posters like you and your friends posting nonsense like Iverson didnít deserve an MVP. Blatant ignorance and disrespect.

Like I said you just need to be quiet

1) It's exactly what it means.

2) Sticking up for other posters? I'm the only one who spoke about Iverson in-depth. Need glasses?

3) Never said he doesn't deserve it. Maybe you oughta get those eyes checked and/or figure out why you're still here.

Jamiecballer
04-11-2018, 05:16 PM
They're all pretty ****.

They all won for things I stand against.Agreed. I think Westbrook is least deserving, followed by Nash. Both got media MVPs. Iverson is just an example of how dumb we were collectively at the time.

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KG2TB
04-11-2018, 05:28 PM
anyone who doesnt consider iverson an all time great or deserving of that MVP doesnt know basketball. They should just be quiet and pick up another sport.

Iverson was great. One of the best little guys to play. But whatís your definition of all time great? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Top 75? Think heís closer to that 50-75 range than he is anything else.

europagnpilgrim
04-11-2018, 06:18 PM
Agreed. I think Westbrook is least deserving, followed by Nash. Both got media MVPs. Iverson is just an example of how dumb we were collectively at the time.

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Yeah that ROY and runner up to Shaq in 2000 is just about as dumb as it gets from ''non basketball players''

Iverson battled for top spot with Shaq/Duncan( who won back to back right after Iverson so was his deserving?), you must have been dumb because anytime you can sit in between a mvp race with Shaq/Duncan you are legit

like I said you and non players overrate 5ppg career scorers, Shaq nor Duncan never played with core players that weak, ever

europagnpilgrim
04-11-2018, 06:23 PM
Iverson was great. One of the best little guys to play. But whatís your definition of all time great? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Top 75? Think heís closer to that 50-75 range than he is anything else.

what defines ''greatness''? I mean a guy can be riding the bench and then come in the game after a injury and 5 super bowls later he is the 'greatest', but what happens if Bledsoe never gets knocked out with injury?

Iverson is one of the best / most dominant players ever, I call him the lil dipper(wilts son), shaq was basically a modern day wilt, shaq said Iverson was little/guard version of him

so you take it from there and figure it out

and the player with the highest IQ of his generation and possibly all time(depends on who is telling it) called Iverson probably the ''greatest'' pound for pound player ever, and I know last I checked Sugar ray robinson was called by many legends / media experts as the best boxer pound for pound ever and we all know he ranks no less than top 5 all time

I laugh when people say 60-80 range, what a bunch of folly

AI is in my circle of 25 best / most dominant players ever.

FlashBolt
04-11-2018, 06:28 PM
"Iverson was one of the most dominant players ever."

List his achievements. Please. The guy was far from being dominant. He was on losing teams and underachieved as an NBA superstar. His reputation was solely based on his status as an NBA icon. Teams improved when he was traded and teams declined when they received him. It's a fact. He refused to come off the bench in Memphis. He's a locker room mess who brought drama. Heck, isn't he already causing so much problems in the Big 3 League that they PREVENTED him from being a player next season? Give me a break. One of the most dominating? Baby Wilt? LMFAO. Stop making me laugh.

COOLbeans
04-11-2018, 11:24 PM
1) It's exactly what it means.

2) Sticking up for other posters? I'm the only one who spoke about Iverson in-depth. Need glasses?

3) Never said he doesn't deserve it. Maybe you oughta get those eyes checked and/or figure out why you're still here.

1. Your group think sucks. And youíre one of the leaders of the cult thatís been created in here. Itís disgusting.

2. I truly didnít see your posts, youíre right I need to get my eyes checked because I completely missed them.

3. Why do you always feel the need to be the leader of the asinine group? You donít always need to ďclap backĒ or say your piece.

4. Iím here to read news, and Iíve been posting in this forum long before you decided to create an account. Thatís why Iím here because Iíve enjoyed the discussions over the years, but you and the twerps that always feel the need to pile on and also seem to always say some blatantly stupid opinions seem to have run away some of the more consistently solid posters. (I also think it has to do with the pile on group mentality that the stupid posters have created)

5. Just be quiet, you donít always have to respond

COOLbeans
04-11-2018, 11:28 PM
Iverson was great. One of the best little guys to play. But whatís your definition of all time great? Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Top 75? Think heís closer to that 50-75 range than he is anything else.

The NBA kind of put the all time greats into a top 50 players list in the mid 90s. and Iverson is definitely top 50.

I can create a list, but Iím not sure it would matter in this forum right now. All time great is top 50. Can you make an argument that Iverson is outside of the top 50?

All former players say heís an all time great and ďthe greatest little man to ever play.Ē. I think that says a lot and gives his greatness even more legitimacy

COOLbeans
04-11-2018, 11:33 PM
"Iverson was one of the most dominant players ever."

List his achievements. Please. The guy was far from being dominant. He was on losing teams and underachieved as an NBA superstar. His reputation was solely based on his status as an NBA icon. Teams improved when he was traded and teams declined when they received him. It's a fact. He refused to come off the bench in Memphis. He's a locker room mess who brought drama. Heck, isn't he already causing so much problems in the Big 3 League that they PREVENTED him from being a player next season? Give me a break. One of the most dominating? Baby Wilt? LMFAO. Stop making me laugh.

He had declined by the time he reached Detroit and Memphis. He made Carmelo a better player, and those Denver teams were fun to watch and overachieved. Denver won 5 more games (50 wins) the year Iverson got there and they won 50+ each year he was there.

He won the MVP and led the Sixers to the finals when he had literally no help om the offensive end.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-11-2018, 11:47 PM
Iverson is the prime example of voters probably having regret because they simply didn't know enough. It might have been "acceptable" to vote him MVP that year but we all know now he wasn't even close when considering better metrics that unfortunately weren't around.

FlashBolt
04-12-2018, 12:35 AM
1. Your group think sucks. And youíre one of the leaders of the cult thatís been created in here. Itís disgusting.

2. I truly didnít see your posts, youíre right I need to get my eyes checked because I completely missed them.

3. Why do you always feel the need to be the leader of the asinine group? You donít always need to ďclap backĒ or say your piece.

4. Iím here to read news, and Iíve been posting in this forum long before you decided to create an account. Thatís why Iím here because Iíve enjoyed the discussions over the years, but you and the twerps that always feel the need to pile on and also seem to always say some blatantly stupid opinions seem to have run away some of the more consistently solid posters. (I also think it has to do with the pile on group mentality that the stupid posters have created)

5. Just be quiet, you donít always have to respond

1) What? What cult are you talking about? This is the first I've literally heard of this.

3) What?

4) Good for you.

5) What?

Jesus, you have issues man. No one knows wtf you're on about.

FlashBolt
04-12-2018, 12:39 AM
He had declined by the time he reached Detroit and Memphis. He made Carmelo a better player, and those Denver teams were fun to watch and overachieved. Denver won 5 more games (50 wins) the year Iverson got there and they won 50+ each year he was there.

He won the MVP and led the Sixers to the finals when he had literally no help om the offensive end.

Dude, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Allen Iverson was only there for one full season. What are you talking about "each year he was there"? Are you just making stuff up along the way? Overachieved? LMAO, no they didn't. When they got Billups, they were playing vs the Lakers in the WCF as compared to getting eliminated in the first round with AI. Leave the basketball to the real fans and go comment with YouTubers...

PatsSoxKnicks
04-13-2018, 02:39 AM
I wonder if anyone knows that Nash led like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time including those two years they won MVP. And yes, it was absolutely Nash (not Amare). But I think most people suffer from scoring blindness as opposed to looking at creation and making the teams' offense better. It's not a coincidence Nash was a player on like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time. Was he bad on defense? Definitely and there's easily a case they were both undeserving but he doesn't belong in the category with the other 3 imo. Those other 3 were much worse. Actually, Westbrook's wasn't that bad. Rose and Iverson are in a category by themselves.

NYKalltheway
04-13-2018, 06:14 AM
Both Iverson and Rose deserved their MVPs. Nash did not. No idea on Westbrook as I wasn't paying attention.

Chronz
04-13-2018, 06:33 AM
Shaq was robbed the most but the rose vote is most defensible

JasonJohnHorn
04-13-2018, 08:24 AM
A lot of people say Nash didn't deserve his. I don't see it. When you look at what those teams did in games he didn't play, or when he was off the court...

Not only that, but he and 'Antoni completely transformed the way the NBA plays on the offensive end. Both of those were deserving, and to be frank, that third year he deserved it even more (though that is not to say he should have got it).

I'm not a fan of any of the other picks there. Westy was about personal stats. It's an impressive accomplishment, yes, but we see this year he's had 2 all-stars added to his roster and they got the same number of wins. He's an amazing talent, yes, but I put Leonard and Harden over him last year, and I feel like this year confirmed it.

As for AI.... well, I feel like Philly did well despite him, not becaue of him. People weren't in to advance stats back then, and his high scoring average and team record was enough for a lot fo voters. Today, that wouldn't fly. Shaq. Duncan. There were FAR more deserving players.

I mean... the Spurs second leading scorer that year was 'Derek Anderson'. And the they only had 3 double-digit scoers. And yet they got more wins in the west.

Kobe and Shaw both deserved it more. They had better seasons.

FRankly, I would have given it to Webber before Iverson.


I mean... Garnett's team wasn't a 50-win team, but even he was more deserving that year.


Rose... well.. he had a great season. I'd have gone with LBJ, but there was a strong case for Rose.

warfelg
04-13-2018, 08:30 AM
How the hell did Iverson not deserve his? Shaq and Duncan were on better teams. AI dragged that team to 50+ wins, 1st seed in the east.

Pfeifer
04-13-2018, 08:38 AM
Guaranteed most people trashing AI and Nash never even watched the games. Stats and metrics are not everything.

ewing
04-13-2018, 09:11 AM
I wonder if anyone knows that Nash led like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time including those two years they won MVP. And yes, it was absolutely Nash (not Amare). But I think most people suffer from scoring blindness as opposed to looking at creation and making the teams' offense better. It's not a coincidence Nash was a player on like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time. Was he bad on defense? Definitely and there's easily a case they were both undeserving but he doesn't belong in the category with the other 3 imo. Those other 3 were much worse. Actually, Westbrook's wasn't that bad. Rose and Iverson are in a category by themselves.

Agreed.


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HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2018, 09:21 AM
I wonder if anyone knows that Nash led like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time including those two years they won MVP. And yes, it was absolutely Nash (not Amare). But I think most people suffer from scoring blindness as opposed to looking at creation and making the teams' offense better. It's not a coincidence Nash was a player on like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time. Was he bad on defense? Definitely and there's easily a case they were both undeserving but he doesn't belong in the category with the other 3 imo. Those other 3 were much worse. Actually, Westbrook's wasn't that bad. Rose and Iverson are in a category by themselves.

I'm a big Nash guy and thought in his prime would've dominated this era of basketball, but there were just more worthy candidates that year IMO. If he was the suns defensive anchor then perhaps he had a case but just not enough from him to warrant b2b MVPs

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2018, 09:31 AM
As far as top offenses all time, Antoni's 7 second or less offense was something the league had never seen before and provided that team with such synergy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/mike-dantoni-offense-shaped-nba-2017-11

warfelg
04-13-2018, 09:41 AM
As far as top offenses all time, Antoni's 7 second or less offense was something the league had never seen before and provided that team with such synergy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/mike-dantoni-offense-shaped-nba-2017-11

Actually, in terms of Pace, D'Antoni's Suns would have been average pace this season.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-13-2018, 10:06 AM
Actually, in terms of Pace, D'Antoni's Suns would have been average pace this season.

At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.

warfelg
04-13-2018, 10:27 AM
At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.

True.

europagnpilgrim
04-13-2018, 12:03 PM
"Iverson was one of the most dominant players ever."

List his achievements. Please. The guy was far from being dominant. He was on losing teams and underachieved as an NBA superstar. His reputation was solely based on his status as an NBA icon. Teams improved when he was traded and teams declined when they received him. It's a fact. He refused to come off the bench in Memphis. He's a locker room mess who brought drama. Heck, isn't he already causing so much problems in the Big 3 League that they PREVENTED him from being a player next season? Give me a break. One of the most dominating? Baby Wilt? LMFAO. Stop making me laugh.

I am really started to believe you just started watching hoops around the time Curry / Harden got drafted, seriously

for you to even ask me what his list of achievements why don't you go ask your boy toy Bron why he publicly on the record stated that Iverson is 'probably the greatest player ever pound for pound'. How come Bron didn't just say this about Nash who just recently pretty much retired? why didn't any player come out and say this about Stockton when he retired? answer: because it wouldn't have been even remotely close to being true, Iverson was a entirely diff. special than those type of players, its a reason why Bron / CP3 and others say what they say about Iverson, he was and is the Answer, just look at the league now, all the lil guards want to score and shoot and play make, AI style, Lebron needs to bring the headband back to complete the trifecta(arm sleeve / tats) that AI created

why would a player / legend of Bron caliber and iq speak so ignorantly? why did Bron have a poster of this non dominant player growing up? it couldn't have been just the tats / arm sleeve / headband that Bron admired was it?

how about this go back at watch HS footage of AI in both football / basketball and tell me how can a Junior in HS can be Mr. Virginia in both sports and not play his Senior season because of some BS court case / brawl and then go to Georgetown after a year off and drop 20ppg as freshman and not be dominant at 5'10'' and 150lbs with bricks in his pocket

of course he was baby Wilt / Dipper, from the athletic ability to endurance / skill set he was just 5'10'' and Wilt was 7'4'' with shoes on, Lebron is a mix of AI / Shaq or / Mailman

him coming off the bench in both Detroit and Memphis at that time is like Lebron coming off the bench for Cedric Ceballos or today version Crowder / Sefalosha, that's how I view Stuckey / Conley, especially at that time, they were bench players and though AI was aged he came off a 2008 at almost 27ppg and 7apg 2spg, Detroit had the 4th seed prior to the Stuckey incident

do you think a player coming off that type of season should be on the bench, let me know when a player avg 27ppg and 7apg at damn near 33yrs old and asked 6 months later to come off the bench and see how they react, imagine if Lebron was told next year to come off the bench how would he feel? would he do it or ***** about it and take his ball and go home like AI did? I can tell you have never played a lick of sports a day in your life that mattered, ymca or shooting in your driveway doesn't count

the big 3 league? they used his name to promote the league, its already a lawsuit against the big 3 so I bet that is Iverson fault as well right?

dude played with and through so many injuries I am shocked that he can actually walk right now, its a reason Shaq(modern day Wilt) said he was top 5 ever because he would take Shaq type punishment and keep coming back attacking, Shaq said AI would get beat up on the court like he did but Shaq was 7'2'' 300+ lbs and not 5'10'' 150lbs soak and wet

how about you list his rosters he had in his career and tell me honestly when they were legit pre season favorites to do anything outside of 2008 with Denver, they won 50 games as a 8th seed, shows you how stacked that West was, and everybody lost to the Lakers and Spurs out west for that 1 1/2 seasons in Denver

its hard to achieve the ultimate team goal of a title when you rely on 5-6ppg career scorers for 7 out first 10yrs of prime / youth / apex ability, Mckie and Snow say hello, Mckie avg a robust 14ppg during that 01' run, I guarantee you if Love as the 2nd option puts up 14ppg throughout this playoff run they will not be making any serious noise. not just Bron but in regards to any other superstar player with a 14ppg second option to lean on, that is not a recipe for success, 2nd option at least needs to be a bona fide 20ppg+ scorer, your second option cant be a 6th man getting 11ppg like mckie did off the bench, you seriously don't know jack-ish about basketball, this is simple basic ish

his reputation was based on his status as an NBA icon as you say, now how in the hell do you become an icon? isn't Ali an icon? isn't Gretzky an icon, isn't Jordan an icon? or Nicklaus?

do you became an icon by being average at something or dominant at it? why is everything from icon, volume shooting, turnovers, not wanting to come off the bench for inferior players, and everything else always matters more when it comes to Iverson than others? c'mon smart guy, give me some factual answers

and make sure you list his teammates, you know Salmons, Claxton, M Jackson, Harpring, you know those first ballot HOF'ers that he just ballhogged shots from, those all nba'ers(any team), I will be patiently waiting to list those achievements that could have been had they actually drafted Pierce / TMac / Dirk (any combo), now compare those 3 players with his actual roster that he had his 10yrs there, and injured / old Webber don't count

I bet Pierce / TMac / Dirk are HOF bound and they passed up each player after getting AI

make sure you list his incompetent GM who was running the team as well, he did the same thing to Nets as well GM wise, Iverson was doomed from the start to not win big, but he still displayed his ''dominance''

give yourself a break, of that kit kat bar

Jamiecballer
04-13-2018, 12:14 PM
The NBA kind of put the all time greats into a top 50 players list in the mid 90s. and Iverson is definitely top 50.

I can create a list, but Iím not sure it would matter in this forum right now. All time great is top 50. Can you make an argument that Iverson is outside of the top 50?

All former players say heís an all time great and ďthe greatest little man to ever play.Ē. I think that says a lot and gives his greatness even more legitimacyHas anyone ever made an exhaustive list of the greatest little men to ever play? It's probably a pretty sad list. Take that into consideration.

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Jamiecballer
04-13-2018, 12:16 PM
A lot of people say Nash didn't deserve his. I don't see it. When you look at what those teams did in games he didn't play, or when he was off the court...

Not only that, but he and 'Antoni completely transformed the way the NBA plays on the offensive end. Both of those were deserving, and to be frank, that third year he deserved it even more (though that is not to say he should have got it).

I'm not a fan of any of the other picks there. Westy was about personal stats. It's an impressive accomplishment, yes, but we see this year he's had 2 all-stars added to his roster and they got the same number of wins. He's an amazing talent, yes, but I put Leonard and Harden over him last year, and I feel like this year confirmed it.

As for AI.... well, I feel like Philly did well despite him, not becaue of him. People weren't in to advance stats back then, and his high scoring average and team record was enough for a lot fo voters. Today, that wouldn't fly. Shaq. Duncan. There were FAR more deserving players.

I mean... the Spurs second leading scorer that year was 'Derek Anderson'. And the they only had 3 double-digit scoers. And yet they got more wins in the west.

Kobe and Shaw both deserved it more. They had better seasons.

FRankly, I would have given it to Webber before Iverson.


I mean... Garnett's team wasn't a 50-win team, but even he was more deserving that year.


Rose... well.. he had a great season. I'd have gone with LBJ, but there was a strong case for Rose.What d'antoni is doing in Houston only further de-legitimizes Nash's MVP. It should have been a co-award.

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europagnpilgrim
04-13-2018, 12:24 PM
Has anyone ever made an exhaustive list of the greatest little men to ever play? It's probably a pretty sad list. Take that into consideration.

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no but you constantly hear those who know about ball mention Tiny / Zeke / AI as the 3 most dominant ones to lace'em up, its hard for guys like Webb / Boykins / Price / Stockton / Nash / Bogues but Zeke and AI were something special, even CP3 is on that list as well with the 3 first mentioned

no little guy on solo level dominated on AI level, Zeke will even tell you that, his former coach Daly already quoted publicly where he felt AI ranked, he had AI in his circle of 25 of the best players ever, his list not mine

Chronz
04-13-2018, 12:26 PM
A lot of people say Nash didn't deserve his. I don't see it. When you look at what those teams did in games he didn't play, or when he was off the court...

Not only that, but he and 'Antoni completely transformed the way the NBA plays on the offensive end. Both of those were deserving, and to be frank, that third year he deserved it even more (though that is not to say he should have got it).

I'm not a fan of any of the other picks there. Westy was about personal stats. It's an impressive accomplishment, yes, but we see this year he's had 2 all-stars added to his roster and they got the same number of wins. He's an amazing talent, yes, but I put Leonard and Harden over him last year, and I feel like this year confirmed it.

As for AI.... well, I feel like Philly did well despite him, not becaue of him. People weren't in to advance stats back then, and his high scoring average and team record was enough for a lot fo voters. Today, that wouldn't fly. Shaq. Duncan. There were FAR more deserving players.

I mean... the Spurs second leading scorer that year was 'Derek Anderson'. And the they only had 3 double-digit scoers. And yet they got more wins in the west.

Kobe and Shaw both deserved it more. They had better seasons.

FRankly, I would have given it to Webber before Iverson.


I mean... Garnett's team wasn't a 50-win team, but even he was more deserving that year.


Rose... well.. he had a great season. I'd have gone with LBJ, but there was a strong case for Rose.

Shaq turned his team into a legit contender and they didn't simply add him, they destroyed their playoff nucleus to add shaq. The team shaq left added talent and Kobe led them to the lottery.. whereas nash saw his team improve upon his departure. That's true mvp impact

ewing
04-13-2018, 02:34 PM
What d'antoni is doing in Houston only further de-legitimizes Nash's MVP. It should have been a co-award.

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Why? Whatís with this recent trend on here of knocking a player for fitting his coachís system? Would he of been as good on the Griz? I donít think but he wasnít so it doesnít matter


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ewing
04-13-2018, 02:34 PM
At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.

Why?


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mike_noodles
04-15-2018, 09:12 PM
The MVP in the NBA is a joke anyways. Really, Lebron should have about 8 of them already. But voters for some reason get bored of voting for the same guy over and over again. I better say out loud that I am not even a fan of the guy, but respect his talent.

JasonJohnHorn
04-17-2018, 05:14 PM
What d'antoni is doing in Houston only further de-legitimizes Nash's MVP. It should have been a co-award.

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I don't see that. The Rockets need two previous MVP candidates/franchise players as well as exceptional role players who drop daggers from down town (Ariza, Andersen, ect) and all-star calibre guys like Gordon to replicated something like that. NAsh didn't have as many lethal 3-pt shooters.

Looking at MArion an Amare and JJ and especially QT.... none of these guys played as well without Nash afterwards.

So... yeah... I don't know how this de-legitimizes Nash's MVP.

I look at what that team did without him, and what those players did without him, and that's all I need to see.

JasonJohnHorn
04-17-2018, 05:24 PM
Shaq turned his team into a legit contender and they didn't simply add him, they destroyed their playoff nucleus to add shaq. The team shaq left added talent and Kobe led them to the lottery.. whereas nash saw his team improve upon his departure. That's true mvp impact

I agree that Shaq was deserving as well. Wouldn't argue otherwise. Most seasons there are 2 or 3 guys who ar equally worthy.

Chris Paul, for example, has deserved this award a couple of times, but the guys who got it above him were equally deserving. Frankly... I think Paul is very deserving this year (though Harden and James would get my vote, CP3 would be in my top five).



The Heat moved some ey rotation players, yes.... Odom the most important, but Grant and Butler were only single-digit scorer, and Shaq scored more than both of them combined. Grant was also declning quickly. Their leading scorers were Odom, Jones and Wade... they kept two of them in the trade.


I say that not to contend with what you say, but just to suggest that the trade wasn't so lop-sided.


But yes... Shaq was deserving.... I just don't think that makes Nash undeserving.

Jamiecballer
04-18-2018, 12:04 AM
I don't see that. The Rockets need two previous MVP candidates/franchise players as well as exceptional role players who drop daggers from down town (Ariza, Andersen, ect) and all-star calibre guys like Gordon to replicated something like that. NAsh didn't have as many lethal 3-pt shooters.

Looking at MArion an Amare and JJ and especially QT.... none of these guys played as well without Nash afterwards.

So... yeah... I don't know how this de-legitimizes Nash's MVP.

I look at what that team did without him, and what those players did without him, and that's all I need to see.No, dont just look at this year - go back a year. Harden carried them to 55 wins with ungodly numbers. D'antoni is just a genius offensively.

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JasonJohnHorn
04-18-2018, 11:21 AM
No, dont just look at this year - go back a year. Harden carried them to 55 wins with ungodly numbers. D'antoni is just a genius offensively.

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I can't deny that.

But by that logic, Harden doesn't deserve MVP so much a 'Antoni deserve OCOY.

In both cases, exceptional players made 'Antoni' system work; but when 'Antoni had a franchise player like Melo, he could't win $#!t. Nor did he win much in LAL. So obviously the players in the system matter a great deal.

I see your point... 'Antoni deserves credit Yes indeed. However, the players deserve much credit too.

Great coaches and great players together lead to great results. Pop and Duncan. Thibs ad Rose. 'Antoni and Harden/Nash. Kerr/Curry.

In each of these cases there have been seasons where both player and coach was deserving.