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View Full Version : Best Player of All-Time At Their Peak (#26) [TIEBREAKER!]



KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 11:16 AM
Careers create legacies and produce hall of famers. This poll was created with the premise that we should ignore the longevity of a players career and debate who really was the best... of the best... AT THEIR BEST. One season. One player. Who ya got? We left off at #25.

Current List

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
T3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
T3. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Shaquille O’Neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Tim Duncan
10. Kobe Bryant
11. Steph Curry
12. Moses Malone
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Bill Walton
15. Kevin Durant
16. Jerry West
17. Dwyane Wade
18. Oscar Robertson
19. Kevin Garnett
20. Dirk Nowitzki
21. Charles Barkley
22. Karl Malone
23. David Robinson
24. Chris Paul
25. Julius Erving

There was a 3 way tie for #26 between Bill Russell, James Harden, and Kawhi Leonard. This vote will be used to determine which of those 3 gets #26.

KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 11:19 AM
I will again be voting for James Harden. Between scoring and passing he produced a very efficient 50 points per game at his peak. That is elite production that cannot be produced by either of the other 2 players. I don't believe their defense makes up the difference.

KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 11:20 AM
All-Time Great Offensive Player?
All-Time Great Defensive Player?
All-Time Great 2-Way Player?

valade16
04-09-2018, 12:17 PM
I'm going Kawhi Leonard. It's a very close debate based on their regular season numbers and performance except Harden gets worse in the playoffs and Kawhi gets better.

Chronz
04-09-2018, 12:19 PM
Russell

He was better every year of his career than bill Walton. Tbh, so was arvydas sabonis

KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 12:19 PM
I'm going Kawhi Leonard. It's a very close debate based on their regular season numbers and performance except Harden gets worse in the playoffs and Kawhi gets better.

Do you really think that would still be the case if Harden was on the Spurs and Kawhi was on the Rockets?

Chronz
04-09-2018, 12:21 PM
Do you really think that would still be the case if Harden was on the Spurs and Kawhi was on the Rockets?

The differences would be even more profound. Kawhi is just that much more proven

valade16
04-09-2018, 12:49 PM
Do you really think that would still be the case if Harden was on the Spurs and Kawhi was on the Rockets?

I don't think that Harden on the Spurs would make much difference, Pop isn't getting him to become an All-D level defender and his scoring is still too reliant on bombing 3's and generous foul calls.

Would Kawhi have be Kawhi if he had not gone to the Spurs? Who knows, maybe. But he is now. and if you took peak Kawhi and put him on the current Rockets they get even better.

NYKalltheway
04-09-2018, 01:50 PM
First time I voted because I think these votings are a parody attempt but couldn't resist the urge to vote for Bill Russell when it's between him, Harden and Kawhi. Can't believe some of the dilemmas here. It's like seeing a question: do you prefer to live without oxygen or without television? And be like **** oxygen, I wanna watch some tv.

Quinnsanity
04-09-2018, 01:55 PM
You idiots seriously think Chris Paul was better at his peak than Bill Russell?

valade16
04-09-2018, 02:08 PM
You idiots seriously think Chris Paul was better at his peak than Bill Russell?

Aside from team success, what objective measurement do we have that he was?

KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 02:09 PM
The differences would be even more profound. Kawhi is just that much more proven

But proven in this case is a product of environment. Kawhi woke up on the perfect team for him while Harden had to wait to max out his potential behind Westbrook and Durant and then went to Houston where teams could game plan for him and a few bad series have overshadowed entire seasons of incredible production.

Chronz
04-09-2018, 03:01 PM
But proven in this case is a product of environment. Kawhi woke up on the perfect team for him while Harden had to wait to max out his potential behind Westbrook and Durant and then went to Houston where teams could game plan for him and a few bad series have overshadowed entire seasons of incredible production.
I'm a big believer that the greats develop primarily because of their own doing, plenty haven't developed in ideal situations. Kawhi made the spurs contenders again. Harden had a great place to develop imo, and the bad series should be held against him, plenty of others faced that attention without making a fool of himself the way harden has. Tmac had it far worse and never played so poorly overall.

you can put up stats and still hurt your team. Lemme ask tho, is kawhi the onlygreat you dock points for having pop? Kawhi becomes kawhi even if he stays in Indiana with Paul George. Fam, imagine those 2 on the wings

KnicksorBust
04-09-2018, 07:25 PM
But proven in this case is a product of environment. Kawhi woke up on the perfect team for him while Harden had to wait to max out his potential behind Westbrook and Durant and then went to Houston where teams could game plan for him and a few bad series have overshadowed entire seasons of incredible production.
I'm a big believer that the greats develop primarily because of their own doing, plenty haven't developed in ideal situations. Kawhi made the spurs contenders again. Harden had a great place to develop imo, and the bad series should be held against him, plenty of others faced that attention without making a fool of himself the way harden has. Tmac had it far worse and never played so poorly overall.

you can put up stats and still hurt your team. Lemme ask tho, is kawhi the onlygreat you dock points for having pop? Kawhi becomes kawhi even if he stays in Indiana with Paul George. Fam, imagine those 2 on the wings

I feel like it is less that I am docking Kawhi and more that I am trying to say I believe Harden would have been just as successful. 6 years on the Spurs I think they win at least 1 ring with Harden and he wouldnt have the same bad rep. I don't believe legacy credentials should matter as much as actual skills and I give Harden the slight edge in overall impact.

valade16
04-09-2018, 07:33 PM
I feel like it is less that I am docking Kawhi and more that I am trying to say I believe Harden would have been just as successful. 6 years on the Spurs I think they win at least 1 ring with Harden and he wouldnt have the same bad rep. I don't believe legacy credentials should matter as much as actual skills and I give Harden the slight edge in overall impact.

And that's why I'm putting Kawhi above Harden. Harden's amazing skills are predicated heavily off a style that has proven to not be as successful in the playoffs. He's simply not going to get as many calls as he does in the regular season, and his playing style is predicated heavily off that. Nobody is scared of Harden bombing 13 3's a game if he's only getting to the line 3-4 times a game.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 01:30 PM
How many people here have actually seen Bill Russell live over a number of years? Place any athletic 6'10 semi-built guy (doesn't even require an extensive offensive game) in an era of nonathletic white guys and they probably win championships (rules were much different, season/playoff length, etc.) Bill Russell doesn't belong in the top 100 if we're going by these guidleines IMO

NYKalltheway
04-10-2018, 01:46 PM
How many people here have actually seen Bill Russell live over a number of years? Place any athletic 6'10 semi-built guy (doesn't even require an extensive offensive game) in an era of nonathletic white guys and they probably win championships (rules were much different, season/playoff length, etc.) Bill Russell doesn't belong in the top 100 if we're going by these guidleines IMO

Lol, how ironic. How about everyone who's watched him and says he's a legend and top 5, 10, 20 whatever?

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 01:51 PM
Lol, how ironic. How about everyone who's watched him and says he's a legend and top 5, 10, 20 whatever?

They're probably some senile 70 year old who doesn't follow the game today and hows its changed. To say that peak Bill Russell is a top 50 player all time is batshit crazy

FlashBolt
04-11-2018, 12:30 AM
They're probably some senile 70 year old who doesn't follow the game today and hows its changed. To say that peak Bill Russell is a top 50 player all time is batshit crazy

He couldn't score in a time where scoring was the easiest for big men... I'm generally confused as to why no one has made a case for him, though. It seems they just rely on rings and defense.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-11-2018, 12:43 AM
He couldn't score in a time where scoring was the easiest for big men... I'm generally confused as to why no one has made a case for him, though. It seems they just rely on rings and defense.

Yup, just no business whatsoever being in any peak discussion. I've never even heard another argument for him besides rings and defense in normal all time ranking threads and it somehow still gets him in the top 10.

GREATNESS ONE
04-11-2018, 12:52 AM
was I the tie breaker?

Redrum187
04-11-2018, 07:11 AM
was I the tie breaker?

Thanks bae! :hi5:

ewing
04-11-2018, 08:54 AM
Yup, just no business whatsoever being in any peak discussion. I've never even heard another argument for him besides rings and defense in normal all time ranking threads and it somehow still gets him in the top 10.

Seriously no argument other then accolades and the word of those that saw him play or played with him. I feel he was like the wizard in the wizard of Oz. You are like Toto pulling the curtain


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JLynn943
04-11-2018, 09:22 AM
No chance that I'm voting Harden for his offense-only peak when Steve Nash still isn't on the board. For the record, I don't think Kawhi nor Russell deserve it here either. I didn't see Russell play and have absolutely no idea how to rate him though, so I'll go Kawhi.

Chronz
04-11-2018, 02:40 PM
How many people here have actually seen Bill Russell live over a number of years? Place any athletic 6'10 semi-built guy (doesn't even require an extensive offensive game) in an era of nonathletic white guys and they probably win championships (rules were much different, season/playoff length, etc.) Bill Russell doesn't belong in the top 100 if we're going by these guidleines IMO
Based on what tho?

Chronz
04-11-2018, 02:43 PM
He couldn't score in a time where scoring was the easiest for big men... I'm generally confused as to why no one has made a case for him, though. It seems they just rely on rings and defense.
Suppressed his counterpart the most in an era where his counterparts were offensive focus. Not buying the opinion givenhere

KnicksorBust
04-11-2018, 04:40 PM
What is the vote?

valade16
04-11-2018, 04:46 PM
What is the vote?

7 Kawhi
4 Russell
3 Harden

Hawkeye15
04-11-2018, 05:00 PM
I am a harsh ranker of Russell in my opinion, and I argue for him being in the 8-11 area. So this is crazy. I get it, he sucked offensively, but his defense, rebounding, athleticism, and pure impact on winning was insanely great. He was a world class athlete, he would have been an all NBA fixture today without question.

KnicksorBust
04-11-2018, 05:05 PM
What is the vote?

7 Kawhi
4 Russell
3 Harden

Cant hate on Kawhi getting the win. Wild that he wins clean and Pippen is nowhere to be found. New poll goes up tomorrow. :)