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View Full Version : Did Cavs win the Kyrie for Isaiah trade now?



IKnowHoops
04-07-2018, 12:26 AM
Lol, people said Cavs lost the trade because Isaiah was not the same. Well now Kyrie is done so, Cavs basically left two tiny injured guys on the doorstep of teams for a high pick and solid young talent. Did they win the trade?

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 12:34 AM
I would prefer that pick over kyrie and IT at the dollars they will make... They are both 1 way players with kyrie being the better player but overall not a top 20 player in my opinion... Technically the cavs got lottery pick/nance/clarkson which is just far and away better than kyrie... Kyrie going forward with those knee issues and his defense only getting worse while getting an eventual max is LMFAO worthy.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 12:39 AM
No because it comes down to rather having the Nets pick and young fodder vs Kyrie for the next several years.

Unless that pick turns into an all-star level player, I can't say it's a win. But trading Kyrie actually helped them this year because he was likely going to be hurt anyway.

It's still good trade for the Cavs either way.

85BearsDefense
04-07-2018, 12:48 AM
I would prefer that pick over kyrie and IT at the dollars they will make... They are both 1 way players with kyrie being the better player but overall not a top 20 player in my opinion... Technically the cavs got lottery pick/nance/clarkson which is just far and away better than kyrie... Kyrie going forward with those knee issues and his defense only getting worse while getting an eventual max is LMFAO worthy.

Holy hell you're dumb.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 01:38 AM
Holy hell you're dumb.

Was I dumb about IT last season when celtics fans were calling me dumb? I said the celtics were covering up for his horrid 1 way play and that they were a better team without him and boom he goes down and they looked respectable... Sorry but I prefer not having a 1 way player with bad knees who shoots a ton and likely gets some type of super max while giving up a top 5 pick to get said player.


If i could have kyrie or nance/clarkson/top 5 pick its nance/clarkson and the top 5 pick every day and twice on sunday without a 2nd thought.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 01:48 AM
It should have been IT/Crowder and a 2nd for Kyrie in all honesty. IT is only a slight downgrade over kyrie.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 01:59 AM
It should have been IT/Crowder and a 2nd for Kyrie in all honesty. IT is only a slight downgrade over kyrie.

Uh huh, the guy that destroyed a 73 win Warriors team that they had no answer for is slightly better. I see.

I would be horrified to take an IQ test if I were you.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 02:02 AM
It should have been IT/Crowder and a 2nd for Kyrie in all honesty. IT is only a slight downgrade over kyrie.

No GM in the league would do that trade, Cavs only did so because they had no choice. The fact that you'd openly do it would make you the dumbest GM possibly ever.

I suppose you would have done it in 2016 too? Let me know Clarkson and Nance would have done against GS. Argument failure.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 02:06 AM
:laugh:

the butthurt is real

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 02:15 AM
Uh huh, the guy that destroyed a 73 win Warriors team that they had no answer for is slightly better. I see.

I would be horrified to take an IQ test if I were you.

After his sister passed and he played a great game if you were asked to trade IT for kyrie straight up you would have laughed at the stupidity because of some stupid notion that IT is the heart and soul etc etc etc of the team... You let your bias and emotions for your team get in the way... IT was extremely overrated because of the talent around the celtics that covered up for his holes then and he is even worse now... Kyrie isnt much of an upgrade then but he is now but not enough to warrant and or justify a lottery pick as well on top of those knees and what will be a supermax or max contract.

jaydubb
04-07-2018, 04:02 AM
You always want to take the already established young star player that will likely be locked in for several more years over the unexpected outcome of a draft pick, no matter how high that draft pick may be.

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LOb0
04-07-2018, 04:16 AM
After his sister passed and he played a great game if you were asked to trade IT for kyrie straight up you would have laughed at the stupidity because of some stupid notion that IT is the heart and soul etc etc etc of the team... You let your bias and emotions for your team get in the way... IT was extremely overrated because of the talent around the celtics that covered up for his holes then and he is even worse now... Kyrie isnt much of an upgrade then but he is now but not enough to warrant and or justify a lottery pick as well on top of those knees and what will be a supermax or max contract.

Uh huh, that's why there was consent talk about how paying a 29 year old 5'9 PG the max was dumb. None of us saw that coming? I'm not sure what morons you discuss NBA with but the majority I seen would've jumped on this deal at any point.

You've already proven you're an idiot by saying you'd of sacrificed the 2016 NBA title by trading Kyrie for Clarkson and Nance. Pure stupidity.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:30 AM
You always want to take the already established young star player that will likely be locked in for several more years over the unexpected outcome of a draft pick, no matter how high that draft pick may be.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

not in todays game where 2 way play matters esp at the PG position and where depth is a big friggin deal.... Now of course there is exceptions when you are talking about a top 5 player but how many top 5 players are 1 way players with injury issues that are about to get a mega deal???? Kyrie is a top 20-25 player at best who can hit a big shot one game but takes 25 shots the next with no defense that has handles. That would work 20 years ago but that type of game at that position in todays NBA isnt going to win a championship... I said it about IT and its become glaringly obvious how right I was... Now IT is a poor mans kyrie but he is still a kyrie.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:33 AM
Uh huh, that's why there was consent talk about how paying a 29 year old 5'9 PG the max was dumb. None of us saw that coming? I'm not sure what morons you discuss NBA with but the majority I seen would've jumped on this deal at any point.

You've already proven you're an idiot by saying you'd of sacrificed the 2016 NBA title by trading Kyrie for Clarkson and Nance. Pure stupidity.

when did I say that? Never once did I say id do that... I would however have given up kyrie for nance/clarkson and a lottery pick which the cavs ultimately did esp a kyrie who has really bad knee issues and is going to get a super deal. Maybe they dont win that championship or maybe 1 year sooner they have clarkson/nance and a top 3 pick in the finals where kyries health YET AGAIN came into play and ultimately cost them a title... I mean if we are going by hypotheticals of course.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:38 AM
Kyrie helped win them a title congrats... kyrie is a better version of Isiah Thomas.... Sorry but Id rather have a nance/clarkson on good deals and a lottery pick over a 1 legged one way point guard who will make bank because he won a title years earlier and has handles who has yet to prove he was anything more than a Robin at best to batman.

Also i said this **** about IT and Kyrie for the last 2 plus years so it has 0 to do with the celtics and all to do with the cap/pg position and the importance of 2 way play in todays NBA and 2 WAY PLAY IN GENERAL IN TODAYS NBA for ****s sake.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 04:39 AM
when did I say that? Never once did I say id do that... I would however have given up kyrie for nance/clarkson and a lottery pick which the cavs ultimately did esp a kyrie who has really bad knee issues and is going to get a super deal. Maybe they dont win that championship or maybe 1 year sooner they have clarkson/nance and a top 3 pick in the finals where kyries health YET AGAIN came into play and ultimately cost them a title... I mean if we are going by hypotheticals of course.



If i could have kyrie or nance/clarkson/top 5 pick its nance/clarkson and the top 5 pick every day and twice on sunday without a 2nd thought.


2016 had days in it. It sounds like to me you're just jumping on the he's hurt bandwagon. So you wouldn't trade him then but now that you know he's hurt you'd do it?

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:43 AM
2016 had days in it.

we are talking about the trade though genius considering we cant go back and add a top 5 pick in 2015 because the celtics didnt have a top 5 pick like they will this year for **** sake. My god imagine nance/clarkson/porzingus or towns if we are going to switch **** up to your hearts content and just assume.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 04:47 AM
we are talking about the trade though genius considering we cant go back and add a top 5 pick in 2015 because the celtics didnt have a top 5 pick like they will this year for **** sake. My god imagine nance/clarkson/porzingus or towns if we are going to switch **** up to your hearts content and just assume.

You said any day you'd take Clarkson and Nance for Kyrie. So with a top 5 pick you'd of done it. You can't change it to "Oh I wouldn't do it then".

You're full of ***** and just changing your opinion simply because he's hurt.

Be a man and stick with your opinion that you'd of traded him if the option was there and blew the 2016 title in the process.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:53 AM
You said any day you'd take Clarkson and Nance for Kyrie. So with a top 5 pick you'd of done it. You can't change it to "Oh I wouldn't do it then".

You're full of ***** and just changing your opinion simply because he's hurt.

Be a man and stick with your opinion that you'd of traded him if the option was there and blew the 2016 title in the process.

see you arent at all looking at factual information... if i could have Porzingus/nance/clarkson that series probably doesnt even go 7 games and the cavs right now are in a much much much better position... see how that works when you just try to use **** that makes no sense? Right now this year this season going forward GENIUS... give me clarkson on his oh so sexy contract and nance and what will be a top 5 pick over kyrie all day every day without a 2nd thought passed be damned.

i am sorry you are so irate that kyrie is on one leg and the cavs are currently finding their grove with those players.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 04:53 AM
Was I dumb about IT last season when celtics fans were calling me dumb? I said the celtics were covering up for his horrid 1 way play and that they were a better team without him and boom he goes down and they looked respectable... Sorry but I prefer not having a 1 way player with bad knees who shoots a ton and likely gets some type of super max while giving up a top 5 pick to get said player.


If i could have kyrie or nance/clarkson/top 5 pick its nance/clarkson and the top 5 pick every day and twice on sunday without a 2nd thought.

Stevens is great, he;s Pops Jr. (without the tiles). Dude knows how to maximize his talent and put his players in spots to succeed. But look at the Cavs without Kyrie. As much as you dislike him, his presence on the Cavs was significant in hindsight, even moreso when the playoffs come alomng. Kyrie is flawed in terms of vision and playmaking, but he has strengths on offense that are hard to duplicate in the league. He is trying to become a better playmaker with primary ball handling duties and he is slowly improving. RW was the same when he first came into the league , and he got a lot better because of role. Harden was always the better natural vision guy of the 3, but he also got better because of being the primary ball handler. Kyrie will never be good on defense, unlike IT though, he has way more moments on that end when he is focused in the playoffs. As much of a volume scorer he is too, the guy is one of the most feared clutch time and playoff scorers, and defenses respect the hell out of him too. You can't take that away from him and the pressure he eases off his teammates too. People say his efficiency will go down as option 1 without Bron, in actuality it went up so far with the 1 year sample.

We will see how the picks turn out. Celtics vs. Cavs trade, Celtics won unless the lottery is a player that gives the Cavs as much years as Kyrie and as much all star appearnces as Kyrie does for the Celtics. IT was a bench scoring player before Boston and after Boston. Kyrie is an allstar before and during Boston. There's a difference. Boston was the perfect system for IT. They max his strengths and hid his flaws (on D) You can say the Cavs won the Lakers/Jazz trade because Nance and company have nothing to the Celtics. It's just the Lottery and the two Cleveland flops (I/Smart). Cleveland in hindsight may have not made the right choices vs. Boston, thus far but the lottery pick could change things. It's a slippery slope for one to bundle trades together, in a lot of scenarios the initial trade goes way too far back to even determine what was the initial trade.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:56 AM
Stevens is great, he;s Pops Jr. (without the tiles). Dude knows how to maximize his talent and put his players in spots to succeed. But look at the Cavs without Kyrie. As much as you dislike him, his presence on the Cavs was significant in hindsight, even moreso when the playoffs come alomng. Kyrie is flawed in terms of vision and playmaking, but he has strengths on offense that are hard to duplicate in the league. He is trying to become a better playmaker with primary ball handling duties and he is slowly improving. RW was the same when he first came into the league , and he got a lot better because of role. Harden was always the better natural vision guy of the 3, but he also got better because of being the primary ball handler. Kyrie will never be good on defense, unlike IT though, he has way more moments on that end when he is focused in the playoffs. As much of a volume scorer he is too, the guy is one of the most feared clutch time and playoff scorers, and defenses respect the hell out of him too. You can't take that away from him and the pressure he eases off his teammates too. People say his efficiency will go down as option 1 without Bron, in actuality it went up so far with the 1 year sample.

We will see how the picks turn out. Celtics vs. Cavs trade, Celtics won unless the lottery is a player that gives the Cavs as much years as Kyrie and as much all star appearnces as Kyrie does for the Celtics. IT was a bench scoring player before Boston and after Boston. Kyrie is an allstar before and during Boston. There's a difference. Boston was the perfect system for Kyrie. You can say the Cavs won the Lakers/Jazz trade because Nance and company have nothing to the Celtics. It's just the Lottery and the two Cleveland flops (I/Smart). Cleveland in hindsight may have not made the right choices vs. Boston, thus far but the lottery pick could change things. It's a slippery slope for one to bundle trades together, in a lot of scenarios the initial trade goes way too far back to even determine what was the initial trade.

then how can one say the celtics won without waiting to see how kyrie and his 1 leg turn out on top of how the cavs turn out with whomever they draft? See how that works? Right now with what we know i am sure every cavs fan would rather have clarkson/nance and the top 5 pick all day every day over a 1 legged 1 way pg who wont even step foot in the playoffs this year.

And i have nothing against kyrie I just cant stand 1 way PG who shoot a ton a get massive credit for scoring because they shoot a ton while we ignore the black hole they are on defense

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 04:57 AM
also stevens is great i will agree with that and I was 1000 percent wrong on brown who in my opinion will be better than kyrie before kyrie steps back onto the hardwood.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 05:00 AM
see you arent at all looking at factual information... if i could have Porzingus/nance/clarkson that series probably doesnt even go 7 games and the cavs right now are in a much much much better position... see how that works when you just try to use **** that makes no sense? Right now this year this season going forward GENIUS... give me clarkson on his oh so sexy contract and nance and what will be a top 5 pick over kyrie all day every day without a 2nd thought passed be damned.

i am sorry you are so irate that kyrie is on one leg and the cavs are currently finding their grove with those players.

Lol you think he'd of dropped a 41 point finals game and a game winner at 21 years old?

So confirm that you think they'd of won the NBA title in 2016 without Kyrie, so I have more "You're an idiot" quotes to add.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 05:01 AM
the pick can be as high as 1 or as low as 10-12. it's like 30 percent to be top 5 atm. The pick most likely 6-9 range IMO, probably 7 where it's at right now. In this years draft that's a big difference, because the draft is top heavy,

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 05:05 AM
Lol you think he'd of dropped a 41 point finals game and a game winner at 21 years old?

So confirm that you think they'd of won the NBA title in 2016 without Kyrie, so I have more "You're an idiot" quotes to add.

why does 41 points matter? that right there is my point... His inside ability alone would have helped further destroy the one weakness the warriors had and on top of that his defense which well isnt anything special yet is worlds better than that of kyries would have helped make a huge difference... then there is rebounding etc etc but no i am sure ppg is the end all be all and defense is irrelevant esp when you factor in how horrid kyries defense is/was and will forever be with his only oh so much better knees right? Again this isnt street ball where scoring is the end all be all and no i am not sure he helps win or lose anything because you are the one suggesting they lose that series without him which isnt something that can actually be proven and is as easy for me to say if they have a porzingus even as a rookie or a towns they win the year before but yet again stupid hypothetical to fall back on when you have no rebuttal or ahem and this isnt a shot at kyrie but no leg to stand on.

LOb0
04-07-2018, 05:06 AM
why does 41 points matter? that right there is my point... His inside ability alone would have helped further destroy the one weakness the warriors had and on top of that his defense which well isnt anything special yet is worlds better than that of kyries would have helped make a huge difference... then there is rebounding etc etc but no i am sure ppg is the end all be all and defense is irrelevant esp when you factor in how horrid kyries defense is/was and will forever be with his only oh so much better knees right? Again this isnt street ball where scoring is the end all be all and no i am not sure he helps win or lose anything because you are the one suggesting they lose that series without him which isnt something that can actually be proven and is as easy for me to say if they have a porzingus even as a rookie or a towns they win the year before but yet again stupid hypothetical to fall back on when you have no rebuttal or ahem and this isnt a shot at kyrie but no leg to stand on.

Okay, I just wanted to confirm that you're completely crazy and have no credibility.

Thank you sir.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 05:07 AM
then how can one say the celtics won without waiting to see how kyrie and his 1 leg turn out on top of how the cavs turn out with whomever they draft? See how that works? Right now with what we know i am sure every cavs fan would rather have clarkson/nance and the top 5 pick all day every day over a 1 legged 1 way pg who wont even step foot in the playoffs this year.

And i have nothing against kyrie I just cant stand 1 way PG who shoot a ton a get massive credit for scoring because they shoot a ton while we ignore the black hole they are on defense

Nance, Hood and JC have nothing to do with the Celtics. It's just the lottery pick, the other choices they made (It and Crowder) flopped for them. Those young guys they got from Utah/LAL have nothing to do with the Celtics. If the lotto pick (which is not top 5) like your claiming plays better for th e Cavs then Kyrie does for the Celtics. The Cavs win. I''m willing to bet the Celtics get more out of Kyrie vs. the lotto pick does for the Cavs. You can say the Cavs won the Jazz and Lakers trade and analyze how Crowder (i Keep on mis-replacing him with smart) does for the Jazz, and IT does for the Lakers. Those two Bombed for the Cavs, straight up simply, and they regretted that decision that why they were re-flipped.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 05:08 AM
the pick can be as high as 1 or as low as 10-12. it's like 30 percent to be top 5 atm. The pick most likely 6-9 range IMO, probably 7 where it's at right now. In this years draft that's a big difference, because the draft is top heavy,


it will likely be a top 6 or 7 pick... again it could be 1 or 13 you are correct so we will wait and see but the draft is what it is... all drafts are overrated and top heavy so we wont know how good someone is or isnt... BUT ALL DRAFTS NOW ARE OVERRATED AS **** and that could be huge for the cavs esp if they dangle that out for a cousins or PG13 or so on down the list which they 100 percent could. I am not going by the person they draft but the value these picks have esp as we get closer to the draft.

jaydubb
04-07-2018, 05:09 AM
not in todays game where 2 way play matters esp at the PG position and where depth is a big friggin deal.... Now of course there is exceptions when you are talking about a top 5 player but how many top 5 players are 1 way players with injury issues that are about to get a mega deal???? Kyrie is a top 20-25 player at best who can hit a big shot one game but takes 25 shots the next with no defense that has handles. That would work 20 years ago but that type of game at that position in todays NBA isnt going to win a championship... I said it about IT and its become glaringly obvious how right I was... Now IT is a poor mans kyrie but he is still a kyrie.OK then.. In your own words you say kyrie is a top 20-25 player.. So, that being said, let's look at the last 10 nba draft classes.. Out of those last 10 draft classes, how many of the top 10 overall selections (which is where Brooklyns pick will likely be as they currently have the 7th worst record) how many players are currently top 20-25 players in the nba? I see 5, maybe 6.. Karl Anthony towns, Russell westbrook, Joel embiid, James harden, Steph curry, kristaps porzingis. Out of these players, only Steph curry was selected after pick #4 (nets pick will likely be somewhere 6-9 if they don't win lottery).. So one player in the last 10 years that was drafted where the Nets pick will be, becoming a top 20-25 player..


Again.. You take the already established young player.

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More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 05:09 AM
Nance, Hood and JC have nothing to do with the Celtics. It's just the lottery pick, the other choices they made (It and Crowder) flopped for them. Those young guys they got from Utah/LAL have nothing to do with the Celtics. If the lotto pick (which is not top 5) like your claiming plays better for th e Cavs then Kyrie does for the Celtics. The Cavs win. I''m willing to bet the Celtics get more out of Kyrie vs. the lotto pick does for the Cavs. You can say the Cavs won the Jazz and Lakers trade and analyze how Crowder (i Keep on mis-replacing him with smart) does for the Jazz, and IT does for the Lakers. Those two Bombed for the Cavs, straight up simply, and they regretted that decision that why they were re-flipped.

I dont disagree... I am saying with what the cavs have now the cavs are in a better position then when they had kyrie going forward. Even with kryie they wont win anything but now they actually have a team and a future going forward and the ability to keep james... I still think a first esp a lottery pick was just to much to give up when Kyrie isnt a huge upgrade over IT... That is my overall point.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-07-2018, 05:14 AM
When the trade first went down, I was about the only one saying Celtics got the better end of the deal. Still think so in light of the recent Kyrie injury.

IT was supposed to be someone who can somewhat fill the void of Kyries absence. It seems like people turn a blind eye that he was a complete waste for the Cavs. Jae Crowder was trash as well and those two literally just netted them inexperienced role players. The picks going to be 5-7 most likely and by then all the Franchise type players will be off the board by then.

If Kyrie had gotten the surgery when he should have then he would have probably been ready around mid season time and Cavs would easily have been better off than if they made that trade. It's a scary thought if you're a Cavs fan going into the playoffs with no Kyrie, no replacement in sight. Just Lebron, Love, and a bunch of role players who could easily shrink extensively in the playoffs.

FWIW Kyrie will come back and anything Boston gets from him will be better than paying IT the max or holding on to a mad overrated pick/overrated Crowder

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 05:14 AM
OK then.. In your own words you say kyrie is a top 20-25 player.. So, that being said, let's look at the last 10 nba draft classes.. Out of those last 10 draft classes, how many of the top 10 overall selections (which is where Brooklyns pick will likely be as they currently have the 7th worst record) how many players are currently top 20-25 players in the nba? I see 5, maybe 6.. Karl Anthony towns, Russell westbrook, Joel embiid, James harden, Steph curry, kristaps porzingis. Out of these players, only Steph curry was selected after pick #4 (nets pick will likely be somewhere 6-9 if they don't win lottery).. So one player in the last 10 years that was drafted where the Nets pick will be, becoming a top 20-25 player..


Again.. You take the already established young player.

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the already established player has knee issues and draft picks are becoming more and more valuable... I will pass on the top 20-25 player and try and use this pick for a cousins whom is a top 10 player which the cavs should have did from the start but got kinda screwed with how they handled things... right now that pick is far more valuable because of how over inflated draft picks are and to get that for 1 way player like kyrie... its a win everytime.

Let me ask you something... right now would you trade Lonzo for Kyrie... right this second with everything you know and how limited Kyrie is and even with balls shooting issues? Really think about the nba currently/size/ the position they play and everything that goes in to said position and tell me you would honestly take the already established player.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 05:25 AM
the already established player has knee issues and draft picks are becoming more and more valuable... I will pass on the top 20-25 player and try and use this pick for a cousins whom is a top 10 player which the cavs should have did from the start but got kinda screwed with how they handled things... right now that pick is far more valuable because of how over inflated draft picks are and to get that for 1 way player like kyrie... its a win everytime.

Let me ask you something... right now would you trade Lonzo for Kyrie... right this second with everything you know and how limited Kyrie is and even with balls shooting issues? Really think about the nba currently/size/ the position they play and everything that goes in to said position and tell me you would honestly take the already established player.

Ball is a top 2-3 pick, so that would be a tough one, considering the mystery of his knees. If Kyrie is still the same player or still getting better (which is still a possibility as he isn't as his peak relatively and age wise), you take Kyrie. But the BK pick is iffy and most likely out of the top 5, so it's easier to take Kyrie. The lower the pick the less likely the pick turns into a star, not impossible but less likely.

jaydubb
04-07-2018, 05:38 AM
the already established player has knee issues and draft picks are becoming more and more valuable... I will pass on the top 20-25 player and try and use this pick for a cousins whom is a top 10 player which the cavs should have did from the start but got kinda screwed with how they handled things... right now that pick is far more valuable because of how over inflated draft picks are and to get that for 1 way player like kyrie... its a win everytime.

Let me ask you something... right now would you trade Lonzo for Kyrie... right this second with everything you know and how limited Kyrie is and even with balls shooting issues? Really think about the nba currently/size/ the position they play and everything that goes in to said position and tell me you would honestly take the already established player.Lonzo for kyrie isn't the same thing because we've already watched Lonzo play a full year in the nba so we know what his potential can be in the nba. We haven't seen any of these upcoming draft picks play in the nba yet. It's still not too long ago that Anthony bennett was the #1 overall draft pick who, by the way, was drafted by the team that owns the Nets pick....

And flipping the pick for a top 10 player is unlikely to happen.. Trades like that are rare, and when they do happen it's usually involving a top 3 pick, which doesn't apply to the Nets pick as it's likely to land somewhere between 6-9.

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More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 05:52 AM
Lonzo for kyrie isn't the same thing because we've already watched Lonzo play a full year in the nba so we know what his potential can be in the nba. We haven't seen any of these upcoming draft picks play in the nba yet. It's still not too long ago that Anthony bennett was the #1 overall draft pick who, by the way, was drafted by the team that owns the Nets pick....

And flipping the pick for a top 10 player is unlikely to happen.. Trades like that are rare, and when they do happen it's usually involving a top 3 pick, which doesn't apply to the Nets pick as it's likely to land somewhere between 6-9.

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Nonono... But lonzo isnt a PROVEN PLAYER and kyrie is... You cant answer because you know the answer and the answer helps make my point on just how flawed kyrie is.... He is a proven player but a flawed proven player and when you add that to potential and how these draft picks are both overrated and over valued that furthers my point... Kyrie is a man out of time like IT was.. You cant win in this league with 1 way undersized PGs who either chuck or need the ball to go through them all game long... Its prehistoric in todays game esp when the majority at that position are bigger/stronger and equally as skilled or slightly less skilled but have said size. Give me that top 10 pick so i can package it for an actual top player like a cousins and go from there... by the time the lottery happens there will be 900 million stories out about how this draft is the best draft ever and the player from duke or kentucky or yada yada yada are cant miss top end best ever talent that will have the likes of these GMs drooling and welcome to the rape... Hell Colangelo fell for it last year and he isnt the first and wont be the last.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 05:59 AM
Nonono... But lonzo isnt a PROVEN PLAYER and kyrie is... You cant answer because you know the answer and the answer helps make my point on just how flawed kyrie is.... He is a proven player but a flawed proven player and when you add that to potential and how these draft picks are both overrated and over valued that furthers my point... Kyrie is a man out of time like IT was.. You cant win in this league with 1 way undersized PGs who either chuck or need the ball to go through them all game long... Its prehistoric in todays game esp when the majority at that position are bigger/stronger and equally as skilled or slightly less skilled but have said size. Give me that top 10 pick so i can package it for an actual top player like a cousins and go from there... by the time the lottery happens there will be 900 million stories out about how this draft is the best draft ever and the player from duke or kentucky or yada yada yada are cant miss top end best ever talent that will have the likes of these GMs drooling and welcome to the rape... Hell Colangelo fell for it last year and he isnt the first and wont be the last.

You can't win with Kyrie, yet the Cavs win a title with Kyrie..... Historically his performance in that finals was FMVP worthy too, just James had the better series. I can agree he's not the ideal guy to be the lead of a championship team, but as a 1b or a focal point I think you can win a title with his skills. Stevens or Pops can build around his strengths, and his style of play can mesh with dominant ball handlers like James, or a more team oriented focus like the Celtics.

More-Than-Most
04-07-2018, 06:11 AM
You can't win with Kyrie, yet the Cavs win a title with Kyrie..... Historically his performance in that finals was FMVP worthy too, just James had the better series. I can agree he's not the ideal guy to be the lead of a championship team, but as a 1b or a focal point I think you can win a title with his skills. Stevens or Pops can build around his strengths, and his style of play can mesh with dominant ball handlers like James, or a more team oriented focus like the Celtics.

he wasnt brought there to be a 1B player and he wont ever accept that role again... Yes he won with lebron but you knew what I meant when I said you cant win with him and you pointed just that out in your rebuttal... He isnt ever going to be the guy to get you a title and the one thing the celtics have had is legit players/team players and stevens is legit and the system is great and they have pieces but Kyrie wont take a back seat and that big time contract like it would have if they gave it to IT will limit the celtics when it comes time to give kyrie that pay day.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 06:17 AM
he wasnt brought there to be a 1B player and he wont ever accept that role again... Yes he won with lebron but you knew what I meant when I said you cant win with him and you pointed just that out in your rebuttal... He isnt ever going to be the guy to get you a title and the one thing the celtics have had is legit players/team players and stevens is legit and the system is great and they have pieces but Kyrie wont take a back seat and that big time contract like it would have if they gave it to IT will limit the celtics when it comes time to give kyrie that pay day.

He has embraced being the role of more of a play-maker, and even in clutch situations he lets others shine in Boston. His effectiveness as a play-maker OTOH is a different story.

I think that narrative is over-blown because he wants to see how he can do without the shadow of James looming. The guy is helping bring along the youngins and has embraced Stevens' system. I don't know what your talking about. As a number one guy, you can win with him IMO, it's not ideal but it's possible. Guys with his fearlessness, and killer instinct translate in the playoffs. The Detroit championship teams both bad boys and Larry days didn't have ideal lead scorers either, but they found other ways to win with defense and a guy or guys that can close out games. Even the Spurs when they beat the heat didn't have an ideal lead player, Kawhi was still learning the ropes, but they had defense and guys who knew how to close and win.

carlessyen
04-07-2018, 08:03 AM
I would have thought we won the trade if they only gave us Abdel Nader . So glad Kyrie is gone second worst defender in the league with grade school intelligence on and off the floor. Take Calderon on the floor any day over a dude that can't guard any point in the league, and thinks the Earth is flat.

PAOboston
04-07-2018, 08:16 AM
The trade itself was almost a flaming disaster for the Cavs. The saving grace is they might get a top 10 pick out of it (Brooklyn plays the Bulls 2x and the C's to finish off the year so they might close on a 3 game win streak putting them at the 10th worst odds in the lottery).

IT was never right and Cavs misused Crowder. I remember all the fuss people made when the deal went down on how the C's got robbed and Cavs now had a legit 6th man of the year in Crowder.

That being said, anyone claiming Kyrie isn't top 20 player and no better than Abdel Nader need to switch sports. There is no way Cavs are better off without Irving. That's just silly. Irving was fantastic this year for the C's and basically carried them until his knee acted up as a result of the surgery from a couple of years ago. We'll see how he recovers but everything I've seem so far is that he will be fine. Time will tell.



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JasonJohnHorn
04-07-2018, 09:22 AM
There is no doubt that Kyrie, when healthy, is AMAZING. Amazing. Yes.

However, this kid didn't even play a full season of college. In six years in the NBA, he's only fnished the season healthy three times, and one of those times he missed the first third of the season.

He's had like 11 injuries, though not all releated, and that is a problem.

On top of that, PGs who rely on their quickness as much as Kyrie does do not have a long shelf life and are usually far less effective at 30 than they were in their prime (Zeke, AI, Marbury, Tim Hardaway, Francis).

Now, I'm not lumping Kyrie and all those guys in the same box because they each had a different style of play, but they all relied on quickness, and when that first step wasn't as deadly, they weren't nearly as good. Kyrie does have a 3pt shot, which none of those guys have, so he'd have something to hold him over longer, but still...


I'd take a guy like Kidd or Stockton, who play smart and can last a long time.


But that aside, the Cavs got the trade demand, and it worked out for them. They already lost Kyrie for one of their best chances at a ring. Had they kept him this year, they'd be out another (and he would have got this injury regardless of where he was playing because it is a repeated injury). Then they wouldn't be in a tough spot to even get to the finals (which admittedly isn't a lock even now).

But now, at least they got a high draft pick coming to them this year to build to the future, and they have a solid roster with a great hustle guys (Nance), two great promising guards, one who has the potential to be 20/5/5 players (Clarkson), and one who has range and can be an top-tier scorer in this league.

I mean... depending on how the draft goes, this could be a HUGE win for them, even if LBJ leaves. If he does, they still have Hood and Clarkson who have room for growth, and All-Star PF in Love, and lottery pick, and a couple of solid dirty-work guys like Nance and TT. And Osman has been showing some flashes of real potential as well, though it si hard to tell in his limited minutes how good he can be.


I'd say its a win overall. They' d have a hard time trading him now if they'd kept him.


Still... a CP3 trade would have been ideal.

D-Leethal
04-07-2018, 10:08 AM
Kyrie wasn't staying in Cleveland long term, and we all know LeBron is leaving, so getting the pick was worth it. IT was a longterm throw-in to make salaries match. Both sides are still happy with the trade.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 10:08 AM
The Cavs are in a better position relatively after the trade because of Kyries injury. Sure that is a decent argument.

But to say that they won the Boston trade is flawed. If we are going to add the Lakers and Jazz guys in. We might as well lump in KG-Al Jefferson trade, KG-PP and BK Trade, possibly even more trades that influenced this trade or had a share in the chain of transactions. Who even remembers how AL or some of the prospects back the were traded and gotten. It may even extend back further. It's a slippery slope. The Cavs lost the Boston trade, but are in a decent spot in the end. That's all it is. Boston is in a better spot too as IT was not worth the Brinks, and they didn't miss Crowder. You can say both teams are in better spots given the context and dynamics, but no they did not win the trade vs. Boston. Kyrie has contributed more to the Boston cause vs. Crowder or IT in Cleveland. If the lottery pick gives more value to the Cavs vs. what Kyrie has/will give to the Cavs, then people can say Cleveland won. IT and Jae gave them **** all.

To add edit:

Boston made the right decision at the time between the two teams. IT was a system player and had injury concerns, and was demanding a big max contract. Right choice to move on. Everyone thought the BK would of been higher like even top overall. It's now at 7. Good decision to ship that pick, and they gained relative value from its projection slipping. Crowder was a solid 3-d guy with a good contract for them. Looks like he is struggling with new teams and benefitted from Boston's system too. Kyrie has been as expected and could be argued even better then they expected considering the load he had to carry, and the extra attention he is getting as the main guy now, with Hayward out to boot.

Cleveland. IT and Jae flopped. The only saving grace is the draft pick, which is lower then they would like. If you went back and offered Cleveland a trade knowing the pick isn't top 5, they might hesitate. It could still jump to top 3 in the lottery but chances are less then 1/4-1/5. The lower the pick, the less chance the pick will outperform or give value as Kyrie is/will for the Celtics.

That's just my view of the trade. Between the two teams Celtics won so far, and more then likely long term.

Vee-Rex
04-07-2018, 10:28 AM
But look at the Cavs without Kyrie.


2017 Cleveland Cavaliers - 51 wins, 31 losses
2018 Cleveland Cavaliers - 49 wins, 31 losses (play the Knicks x2 left)

So essentially, the 2018 Cavaliers have the same record because I'm pretty sure we'd beat the Knicks twice if we tried.

That's after losing Love for almost 2 months, that's after a season of dysfunction, that's after a blockbuster trade that shipped out 6 players and brought in 4 at the deadline.

We have yet to see this team in the playoffs so that would determine everything, but I REALLY like the defensive flashes I've seen with this group of players (George Hill is a pretty big part of that). If the team is defending much better in the playoffs than last year, quite a bit of Kyrie's impact might be mitigated.



We will see how the picks turn out. Celtics vs. Cavs trade, Celtics won unless the lottery is a player that gives the Cavs as much years as Kyrie and as much all star appearnces as Kyrie does for the Celtics.


Kyrie's knee isn't a certain thing, so I wouldn't be so sure that he'll give you 325098432 all-star appearances like you might think. He has one year left on his contract and will no doubt command a max. You're looking at 35-40 million per year, and if this next year is plagued with injuries there might be some conflict there.

Just throwing my hat in the "wait-n-see" pile. I won't say the Cavs won the trade right now but I don't think I can say the Celtics won it either.

Vee-Rex
04-07-2018, 10:30 AM
Call me crazy, but I think Zizic might have been a bit of a gem. Too bad the Cavs coaching staff sucks and won't play him.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 10:34 AM
2017 Cleveland Cavaliers - 51 wins, 31 losses
2018 Cleveland Cavaliers - 49 wins, 31 losses (play the Knicks x2 left)

So essentially, the 2018 Cavaliers have the same record because I'm pretty sure we'd beat the Knicks twice if we tried.

That's after losing Love for almost 2 months, that's after a season of dysfunction, that's after a blockbuster trade that shipped out 6 players and brought in 4 at the deadline.

We have yet to see this team in the playoffs so that would determine everything, but I REALLY like the defensive flashes I've seen with this group of players (George Hill is a pretty big part of that). If the team is defending much better in the playoffs than last year, quite a bit of Kyrie's impact might be mitigated.



Kyrie's knee isn't a certain thing, so I wouldn't be so sure that he'll give you 325098432 all-star appearances like you might think. He has one year left on his contract and will no doubt command a max. You're looking at 35-40 million per year, and if this next year is plagued with injuries there might be some conflict there.

Just throwing my hat in the "wait-n-see" pile. I won't say the Cavs won the trade right now but I don't think I can say the Celtics won it either.

They won so far between the two teams. How many win shares did the Cavs gain from It and Crowder? Yeah they did a good job of erasing the mistake, and getting more useful pieces for their team.

It's true that Kyries knee is a concern moving forward but odds are even with a suspect knee, I would wager he brings more value to Boston moving forward vs. the draft pick does for Cleveland. It is a wait and see thing, but chances are low not impossible that your going to get a better player then even a 75-80 percent Kyrie if the knee halts him (which is not a guarantee).

Kyries value is also more important in the playoffs when things get tighter and ickier in certain situations his ability to create something out of tightness and chaos, help make it easier for Bron. We seen Bron's efficiency plummet the first time around vs. Gs when Kyrie went down too.

Vee-Rex
04-07-2018, 10:43 AM
They won so far between the two teams. How many win shares did the Cavs gain from It and Crowder? Yeah they did a good job of erasing the mistake, and getting more useful pieces for their team.

It's true that Kyries knee is a concern moving forward but odds are even with a suspect knee, I would wager he brings more value to Boston moving forward vs. the draft pick does for Cleveland. It is a wait and see thing, but chances are low not impossible that your going to get a better player then even a 75-80 percent Kyrie if the knee halts him (which is not a guarantee).

I do think Zizic is a very underrated part of the trade but no one mentions him.

It's easy to say the Celtics won between the two teams because we see what happened to IT. If we're going strictly by initial trade, then there was a good reason to believe IT would return to his MVP form, if not close to it. But because he flopped, everyone want to say the Celtics won, but Kyrie is looking like a question mark too.

If the Cavs even land a top 6 pick that could possibly be flipped to a team for an all-star, and could entice LeBron to stay. There's just sooooo many variables in play and we don't know how things will turn out.

I do agree about the chances, but I got a really bad feeling about Kyrie's knee, man.

Heediot
04-07-2018, 10:49 AM
I do think Zizic is a very underrated part of the trade but no one mentions him.

It's easy to say the Celtics won between the two teams because we see what happened to IT. If we're going strictly by initial trade, then there was a good reason to believe IT would return to his MVP form, if not close to it. But because he flopped, everyone want to say the Celtics won, but Kyrie is looking like a question mark too.

If the Cavs even land a top 6 pick that could possibly be flipped to a team for an all-star, and could entice LeBron to stay. There's just sooooo many variables in play and we don't know how things will turn out.

I do agree about the chances, but I got a really bad feeling about Kyrie's knee, man.

Exactly too many variables. We wouild have to include al jefferso, gomes, ratliff, gerald green, telfair for kg.
because kg was traded for the bk pick, which was traded for kyrie. even ratliff and telfair were acquired from portand by boston before being shipped to minny. we would have to add guys like rondo, brandon wright, picks, etc. for the it and crowder assets attained that were shipped for kyrie. i don't even know how far back some
of those guys were gotten by some of the other teams. it's a slippery slope.

I go by my stance that the decision between the two teams at the time and right now SO FAR has gotten more value for the Celtics. Things could change and I don't or won't deny that if the pick turns out to bring more value. Odds are stacked against it IMO.

I forgot about Zizic I've seen some of his games in the Euroleague and Turkey, I've always liked him as a prospect. Not the fleetest of foot, but he has skills that are useful that a coach could work with.

One more thing I personally don't think the Cavs do the trade if they had known the BK would plummet to 6-7 range. They were expecting a higher pick, still a long shot, but it changes the asset value relatively...

Vee-Rex
04-07-2018, 10:51 AM
Exactly too many variables. We wouild have to include al jefferso, gomes, ratliff, gerald green, telfair for kg.
because kg was traded for the bk pick, which was traded for kyrie. even ratliff and telfair were acquired from portand by boston before being shipped to minny. we would have to add guys like rondo, brandon wright, picks, etc. for the it and crowder assets attained that were shipped for kyrie. i don't even know how far back some
of those guys were gotten by some of the other teams. it's a slippery slope.

I go by my stance that the decision between the two teams at the time and right now SO FAR has gotten more value for the Celtics. Things could change and I don't or won't deny that if the pick turns out to bring more value. Odds are stacked against it IMO.

Fair enough.

http://www.memegen.com/m/lt3n5n.jpg

jaydubb
04-07-2018, 12:07 PM
Nonono... But lonzo isnt a PROVEN PLAYER and kyrie is... You cant answer because you know the answer and the answer helps make my point on just how flawed kyrie is.... He is a proven player but a flawed proven player and when you add that to potential and how these draft picks are both overrated and over valued that furthers my point... Kyrie is a man out of time like IT was.. You cant win in this league with 1 way undersized PGs who either chuck or need the ball to go through them all game long... Its prehistoric in todays game esp when the majority at that position are bigger/stronger and equally as skilled or slightly less skilled but have said size. Give me that top 10 pick so i can package it for an actual top player like a cousins and go from there... by the time the lottery happens there will be 900 million stories out about how this draft is the best draft ever and the player from duke or kentucky or yada yada yada are cant miss top end best ever talent that will have the likes of these GMs drooling and welcome to the rape... Hell Colangelo fell for it last year and he isnt the first and wont be the last.Depends on what you mean by "proven player". I don't want to get into a discussion about Lonzo because that's another topic, but Lonzo has already proven that he can make a positive impact on the game at the nba level. Nobody in the 2018 nba draft has proven that yet, so no it's not the same thing at all. Like I said, the team that owns the pick that we are talking about, drafted one of the biggest busts of all time just a few years ago.. I really wouldn't put it past them to draft another dud with that pick that will be much lower in the draft.

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Jamiecballer
04-07-2018, 12:24 PM
Lol, people said Cavs lost the trade because Isaiah was not the same. Well now Kyrie is done so, Cavs basically left two tiny injured guys on the doorstep of teams for a high pick and solid young talent. Did they win the trade?No don't be stupid

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mngopher35
04-07-2018, 12:43 PM
I actually think this makes cavs the clear winners so far. Like that part isn't close really given they have some more role players/depth, a pick, and kyrie is out this year anyways. Something for nothing so far basically

Long term it can still easily swing celtics if kyrie stays healthy from now on etc.

Cal827
04-07-2018, 12:56 PM
Well, I think it'll take another year to see if Kyrie actually resigns with Boston or not; and if he can adjust his game to what the roster is next season (Hayward coming back, Tatum/Brown demanding the ball more, a high pick, or even if the team ships some of the pieces out to get another star).

I would say that those both should happen, but we will see. It was asked over IT, but will Boston be willing to give a Maximum contract to a guy with knee issues, which Ainge acknowledged, could keep him out 10 games or so each season? You know Irving is going to ask for nothing less, and will likely test the market if not given otherwise.


At this point, Boston got more back because Irving has been the offensive guy they needed to be as good as they are now. But depending on what COULD happen, Cleveland could end up winning the trade, based on the ping pong balls, and what happens with the players they got back from the pieces they received from the KI/IT trade:

Clarkson
Nance
Hill
Hood

Raps18-19 Champ
04-07-2018, 01:00 PM
Depends on how the pick turns out and/or if they trade the pick.

Jeffy25
04-07-2018, 06:58 PM
They still control Kyrie another year, if they can be competitive next year, or use a retention benefit to re-sign him and eventually win, then the Celtics will have eventually won this trade.

Also, depends on that pick and how it pans out still.

europagnpilgrim
04-07-2018, 08:31 PM
Was I dumb about IT last season when celtics fans were calling me dumb? I said the celtics were covering up for his horrid 1 way play and that they were a better team without him and boom he goes down and they looked respectable... Sorry but I prefer not having a 1 way player with bad knees who shoots a ton and likely gets some type of super max while giving up a top 5 pick to get said player.


If i could have kyrie or nance/clarkson/top 5 pick its nance/clarkson and the top 5 pick every day and twice on sunday without a 2nd thought.

A healthy Irving all day over that, dude hit the shot to basically clinch that title and he was 1a to Lebron that entire run, he was the closer for most part of that 3yr run, Clarkson/nance cant come close to filling his playoff shoes, where it matters most for Bron at this stage in career, a top 5 pick in the past 5 years outside of a handful or so has been pure garbage, you are the type of GM that would take that top 5 pick and draft Bennett or Morrison style players, without a 2nd thought

Sssmush
04-07-2018, 10:50 PM
Well obviously, for this year coomenters were saying Cavs got hozed by BOSTON BECAuse no chip without Kyrie and Biston would get out of east. But now you see kyrie wouldve justy sat anyway socwhats the difference. Plus you get possible one pick i erall plus clarkson and nance who are for realcrortation pieces

ALso it works out tgey got Hood and hill too so the Cavs got better. Kyrie is a fantastic weapon but can he duplicate those finals performaces who knows. REgardless it is lol at Boston who thought they eere so awesome and would win the East but maybe tgeir coach and system arent that great. OVERrated boston. Toronto and boston trying to overtake the cavs but uh not tet. Clearly cavs improced, and boston likely would trade back kyrie to fet that pick againn. you saw how boston rode IT out, now kyrie is a question markk. Their main problem is tgeir offense it isnt very structured abd just attacks the basket

Vee-Rex
04-07-2018, 10:58 PM
Well obviously, for this year coomenters were saying Cavs got hozed by BOSTON BECAuse no chip without Kyrie and Biston would get out of east. But now you see kyrie wouldve justy sat anyway socwhats the difference. Plus you get possible one pick i erall plus clarkson and nance who are for realcrortation pieces

ALso it works out tgey got Hood and hill too so the Cavs got better. Kyrie is a fantastic weapon but can he duplicate those finals performaces who knows. REgardless it is lol at Boston who thought they eere so awesome and would win the East but maybe tgeir coach and system arent that great. OVERrated boston. Toronto and boston trying to overtake the cavs but uh not tet. Clearly cavs improced, and boston likely would trade back kyrie to fet that pick againn. you saw how boston rode IT out, now kyrie is a question markk. Their main problem is tgeir offense it isnt very structured abd just attacks the basket

Very eloquently put. Well said.

Cal827
04-08-2018, 12:02 AM
:laugh2: Vee-Rex

beasted86
04-08-2018, 11:32 AM
I don't really care too much about the topic, but have a serious question....


Why do deluded Cavs fans keep improving the Nets pick? I've heard it all season, and even still now.

All season long the Nets were about 8th from the bottom and even right this moment are 8th. But Cavs fans, including several in this thread have been steadily mentioning "Top 5 pick".

DOES EVERYBODY ELSE KNOW SOMETHING I DON'T?

Please link to your sauces (sources) for the rigged Nets pick that will ensure it lands higher.

Heediot
04-08-2018, 11:35 AM
I don't really care too much about the topic, but have a serious question....


Why do deluded Cavs fans keep improving the Nets pick? I've heard it all season, and even still now.

All season long the Nets were about 8th from the bottom and even right this moment are 8th. But Cavs fans, including several in this thread have been steadily mentioning "Top 5 pick".

DOES EVERYBODY ELSE KNOW SOMETHING I DON'T?

Please link to your sauces (sources) for the rigged Nets pick that will ensure it lands higher.

If the Cavs knew they would have the 8th best chance to win the lottery back in July, I don't think they would have accepted the trade IMO.

beasted86
04-08-2018, 11:45 AM
If the Cavs knew they would have the 8th best chance to win the lottery back in July, I don't think they would have accepted the trade IMO.

It might even be worse than 8th.

Nets 2 final games are against the Bulls (full blown tank) and the Celtics who are locked into 2nd and will bench all their starters to rest for the playoffs.

The Knicks who are 9th have back-to-back games against the Cavs who are still playing for the 3rd seed.

IndyRealist
04-08-2018, 12:43 PM
The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.

Mell413
04-08-2018, 12:51 PM
We need to see what happens with the pick. Kyrie is the best player in the deal. Odds are Boston wins the deal.

JasonJohnHorn
04-08-2018, 02:00 PM
Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


So who won the trade?


Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.

Heediot
04-08-2018, 02:12 PM
Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


So who won the trade?


Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.

Just curious if we add the LAL and Utah transactions into it. Does Boston add the KG Min trade, KG-PP Boston trade, the Phx-IT trade, the Dal-Crowder trade? Where does it actually begin or end?

My stance is just between the two teams, because adding other transactions creates a slippery slope. I think Boston is winning so far because Kyrie has gotten them more value and wins (win-shares), vs. what Crowder and It got for the Cavs which was close to nothing. The Cavs could end up winning if the lottery pick contributes more for them vs. Kyrie does for Boston, but odds are against them there, even with Kyries kness and injury concerns. I think the Cavs did godo in erasing/minimizing the bad decisions they made vs. Boston against LAL and Utah, and I think they are in a sold/ok spot given Kyrie wanted out.

JasonJohnHorn
04-08-2018, 05:01 PM
Just curious if we add the LAL and Utah transactions into it. Does Boston add the KG Min trade, KG-PP Boston trade, the Phx-IT trade, the Dal-Crowder trade? Where does it actually begin or end?

My stance is just between the two teams, because adding other transactions creates a slippery slope. I think Boston is winning so far because Kyrie has gotten them more value and wins (win-shares), vs. what Crowder and It got for the Cavs which was close to nothing. The Cavs could end up winning if the lottery pick contributes more for them vs. Kyrie does for Boston, but odds are against them there, even with Kyries kness and injury concerns. I think the Cavs did godo in erasing/minimizing the bad decisions they made vs. Boston against LAL and Utah, and I think they are in a sold/ok spot given Kyrie wanted out.

That's a fair point.

I include Cleveland's subsequent trades with the peices they got from Boston because that is fruit from the same tree. They trade Kyrie and got assets back, and with those assets, they have gotten Nance, Clarkson, Hood, and Hill and a lottery pick.

I think this is one of those trades where both teams improved as a result. Clevelnad put themselves in a better position moving forward. They had an injury prone PG who didn't want to be there, and the got a lottery pick, three young prospects, and a quality vet back for him.

Boston got a huge upgrade at PG that makes them a contender when all parties are healthy.

Cleveland is in a better position than they would have been keeping Kyrie; Boston is in a better position than they would have been had they kept IT, Crowder and the pick. The pick is the question mark, of course. It may turn out to be a special player, but in the short term, both teams have improve their situations in the trade.


And trade also opened up the door for Toronto. So... Everybod wins!

Sssmush
04-08-2018, 05:17 PM
The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.

Ultimately this trade was a win-win for both teams. Obviously the Cavs wouldnt have been any worse, because Kyrie wouldve sat thos year and with current lineup they are peaking for a playoff run now.

Boston got rid of IT who was injured and shouldve sat all year possibly and Crowder was apparently not that valuable or whatever. Going FORWARD we dont know who wins the trade because is kyrie worth more than whatever the pick is. But CAvs win this year when they need it, although they wouldve preferred healthy motivated kyrie, and Boston dumps IT and Crowder and continues their long rebuild “process”

It does surprise me that midseason the espn narrative flipped ar are ond and started blaming Lebron for kyrie leaving. Which to me and especially listening to how weirdly stanoffish he was and flat earth and all that on First Take I am sure this was a kyrie thing only. I mean they were in the finals then gor now reason he panics and forces his way out. The top franchise accomodates him, the lesser franchise reaches trying to get a star player is how it would usually read. But Cavs are what they are, but with Lebron they are actually the greater franchise

ewing
04-08-2018, 05:54 PM
Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. It was unlikely he was going to make a positive contribution this season. In fact, it seemed like he wanted out last year, and his playoff performance, though about on par with his regulat season, seemed uninspired.

He was clearly playing with motivation in Boston. He didn't give that o Cleveland last year (not to say he consciously wasn't trying because he put up strong numbers; just that he didn't have that fire under him).



Cleveland wasn't getting anything out of Kyrie. They are getting something out of Nance, and Hill, and Hood, and Clarkson. So yeah... they did well on that trade. They are in a better position now than they would have been keeping Kyrie, AND they get a lottery pick.


Boston is ahead to, in a way. They got the best player, but they'd quickly learned what Cleveland knew: he is injury prone, and as good as he can be, he does nothing when he's on the bench.


So who won the trade?


Well... both teams made out well. Boston got the best player, Cleveland improved.



Who won the trade? The Raptors. They are now in a position to make their first finals appearance, and while I still feel like it will be Cleveland in the finals, the Raptors now have their best chance in franchise history to make it to the finals.

If he can’t net 26 and 6 with a .57 ts% while being uninspired he’s better then any of us think


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Sssmush
04-08-2018, 06:14 PM
One mire thing. Ainge may be the super special GM exec of the year fiery john macenroe scrappiest most awesomist gm ever, and their coach may be “outstanding (young) coach” with “tremendous tremendous oh my just excellent coaching up there in boston great future” however LoL a team that was clever enough to draft Giannis the greek freak is better, period end of story, which is why boston is apparently nothing now without kyrie and will get bounced bby mileaukee in first round very likely

Bostonjorge
04-08-2018, 06:42 PM
The day Irving left the CAvs is when James had his ticket punched for LA. Even if CAvs land top 3 pick, when you lose James you lose the trade.

corky831
04-08-2018, 10:06 PM
It might even be worse than 8th.

Nets 2 final games are against the Bulls (full blown tank) and the Celtics who are locked into 2nd and will bench all their starters to rest for the playoffs.

The Knicks who are 9th have back-to-back games against the Cavs who are still playing for the 3rd seed.

This.

corky831
04-08-2018, 10:11 PM
The earliest this question should be asked is the end of summer, when we know what the pick is and how Kyrie is recovering. Right now, Kyrie having a clean up pricedure on his knee is 10x better than a couple of bench players and a pick that could be #9 or #10.

And this. If the Cavs got Ayton, Bagley, Doncic or Porter....id reconsider. Chances are slim with the Nets having a very good chance at winning their last 2 games. Kyrie is what, 3 yrs younger than IT? That's an upgrade in itself, and Kyrie is a better player than IT. Kyrie has the knee issue, but from the sound of it, the knee is fully healed and structurally sound. The 4-5 months will be helpful for Kyries health long term, and for the Celtics as an investment. Next yr with Hayward back, and Jaylen Brown and Tatum a yr wiser....Celtics are gonna be tough

IKnowHoops
04-08-2018, 10:22 PM
You always want to take the already established young star player that will likely be locked in for several more years over the unexpected outcome of a draft pick, no matter how high that draft pick may be.

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Lol, your forgetting the detail of knee injuries ongoing

hugepatsfan
04-08-2018, 10:34 PM
Teams aren’t static. You can sit here and say that CLE moved Crowder/IT for better fits but that’s salvaging that they FLOPPED on what they were getting. They thought BRK was a bottom 5 team but instead they’re closer to 10th worst. The pick couldnstill go #1 but CLE miscalculated regardless.

CLE could end up with an amazing haul when we look back years from now. But evaluating the trade by itself... they flopped hard. Making great subsequent moves and some lottery luck could make that an overlooked part of the narrative though.

From BOS perspective, they appropriately identified IT/Crowder as expendable and the Nets pick as needing some luck to really be super valuable. Kyrie has the knee trouble this year but the surgery is one that was known to be coming eventually, though the infection was unfortunate. It’s a move I think they’d make again easily.

LaVar Ball
04-09-2018, 01:33 AM
Who cares. Neither the Cavs, Celtics or the Lakers (cuz they actually have IT) are winning the chip. Move on!

basketfan4life
04-09-2018, 05:31 AM
2017 Cleveland Cavaliers - 51 wins, 31 losses
2018 Cleveland Cavaliers - 49 wins, 31 losses (play the Knicks x2 left)

So essentially, the 2018 Cavaliers have the same record because I'm pretty sure we'd beat the Knicks twice if we tried.

That's after losing Love for almost 2 months, that's after a season of dysfunction, that's after a blockbuster trade that shipped out 6 players and brought in 4 at the deadline.

We have yet to see this team in the playoffs so that would determine everything, but I REALLY like the defensive flashes I've seen with this group of players (George Hill is a pretty big part of that). If the team is defending much better in the playoffs than last year, quite a bit of Kyrie's impact might be mitigated.



Kyrie's knee isn't a certain thing, so I wouldn't be so sure that he'll give you 325098432 all-star appearances like you might think. He has one year left on his contract and will no doubt command a max. You're looking at 35-40 million per year, and if this next year is plagued with injuries there might be some conflict there.

Just throwing my hat in the "wait-n-see" pile. I won't say the Cavs won the trade right now but I don't think I can say the Celtics won it either.

all of this is true but one thing i want to add is, LBJ can't even rest in games let alone not playing to rest. This could have an effect deep in playoffs. The burden on LBJ is too heavy with no Kyrie around.

Also star power is too important on playoffs. We all know that in '16 no kyrie no title.

Mr.ATLHawks
04-09-2018, 08:59 AM
I think Kyrie is proving his body cant handle being the #1 if anything. This is, on paper, probably one of the deepest drafts in recent years Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, Jackson Jr, Bamba, Young, Sexton, Carter, Bridges x 2, Brunson.

Vinylman
04-09-2018, 09:22 AM
anyone excited over a Nance/Clarkson haul is delusional...

neither are anything more than role players...

AllBall
04-09-2018, 01:35 PM
This trade can only be judged after the summer. If Lebron leaves, then it was because he was leaving anyways, then I'd say it was a good move for both teams because they got what they both needed out of it.

JasonJohnHorn
04-10-2018, 11:17 AM
If he can’t net 26 and 6 with a .57 ts% while being uninspired he’s better then any of us think


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He is that talented.

The NBA has some very talented players who I would call 'uninspired'.

Now... I take your point, and it is a fair one to make. He still played at a very high level, but compared to the year before... where he really seemed to be playing as part of the team, last year's playoff performance seemed like he was playing on his own. He was still trying.... he was still working, but I felt like he wasn't 'inspired', like he wasn't playing into the team, but rather on his own.

I don't mean for the 'uninspired' comment to make it sound as if he wasn't trying. I don't think that at all.


I can think of any number of players who played at All-Star levels for entire seasons who seemed 'uninspired'.

Derrick Coleman, for example. Mitch Richomnd... in the dulldrus of Sac-town... he didn't seem motivation, or 'inspired', but always put in an honest effort. Shawn Kemp did this a number of times. Vince Carter.

It may be unfair of me to suggest that. Kyrie played well, but his 3pt shots dropped from the year before, the 3's he was taking went up... they sometimes seemed rushed. He was still making plays, and getting his shots, but he seemed to be playing on his own. His defense was lacking. If you look at his averages, they look about the same, but it just seemed like he wasn't in the same place where he was the year before where he was killing in.


It's more something you see than what shows up in the boxscores, but you are right to challenge that statement, and you have stats to support it.


But I do think that Kyrie is talented enough that even on a night when he isn't inspired he can still play like an All-Star.

ewing
04-10-2018, 12:29 PM
He is that talented.

The NBA has some very talented players who I would call 'uninspired'.

Now... I take your point, and it is a fair one to make. He still played at a very high level, but compared to the year before... where he really seemed to be playing as part of the team, last year's playoff performance seemed like he was playing on his own. He was still trying.... he was still working, but I felt like he wasn't 'inspired', like he wasn't playing into the team, but rather on his own.

I don't mean for the 'uninspired' comment to make it sound as if he wasn't trying. I don't think that at all.


I can think of any number of players who played at All-Star levels for entire seasons who seemed 'uninspired'.

Derrick Coleman, for example. Mitch Richomnd... in the dulldrus of Sac-town... he didn't seem motivation, or 'inspired', but always put in an honest effort. Shawn Kemp did this a number of times. Vince Carter.

It may be unfair of me to suggest that. Kyrie played well, but his 3pt shots dropped from the year before, the 3's he was taking went up... they sometimes seemed rushed. He was still making plays, and getting his shots, but he seemed to be playing on his own. His defense was lacking. If you look at his averages, they look about the same, but it just seemed like he wasn't in the same place where he was the year before where he was killing in.


It's more something you see than what shows up in the boxscores, but you are right to challenge that statement, and you have stats to support it.


But I do think that Kyrie is talented enough that even on a night when he isn't inspired he can still play like an All-Star.

What I was challenging was the idea that he wasn't giving effort. That's what I took uninspired to mean. As for your response I do I think it might be unfair to make the year prior a standard he can't dip below. I also think it maybe possible that he wasn't as in sync with the team but not uninspired or playing by himself. Even on a team that looks like poetry in motion there is a competition b/t teammates for territory on the floor. Its your job take your territory without stepping on someone else or being too passive and having the next guy limit you b/c he is seeing opportunity. I think often you make it sound like it just a decision, when in reality its a skill

Chronz
04-10-2018, 01:37 PM
What I was challenging was the idea that he wasn't giving effort. That's what I took uninspired to mean. As for your response I do I think it might be unfair to make the year prior a standard he can't dip below. I also think it maybe possible that he wasn't as in sync with the team but not uninspired or playing by himself. Even on a team that looks like poetry in motion there is a competition b/t teammates for territory on the floor. Its your job take your territory without stepping on someone else or being too passive and having the next guy limit you b/c he is seeing opportunity. I think often you make it sound like it just a decision, when in reality its a skill
It's well documented that Irving had changed his stance on his teammates, dude was done not stepping on toes in Cleveland

Chronz
04-10-2018, 01:37 PM
If he can’t net 26 and 6 with a .57 ts% while being uninspired he’s better then any of us think


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Wake me up when he does that as the man

ewing
04-10-2018, 01:41 PM
It's well documented that Irving had changed his stance on his teammates, dude was done not stepping on toes in Cleveland


What dies well documented mean?


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tp13baby
04-10-2018, 01:41 PM
see you arent at all looking at factual information... if i could have Porzingus/nance/clarkson that series probably doesnt even go 7 games and the cavs right now are in a much much much better position... see how that works when you just try to use **** that makes no sense? Right now this year this season going forward GENIUS... give me clarkson on his oh so sexy contract and nance and what will be a top 5 pick over kyrie all day every day without a 2nd thought passed be damned.

i am sorry you are so irate that kyrie is on one leg and the cavs are currently finding their grove with those players.

You spew the dumbest ****. You are a complete fool to take Clarkson/Nance and a top five over Kyrie.

ewing
04-10-2018, 01:42 PM
Wake me up when he does that as the man

Those are pretty manly numbers


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HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 01:46 PM
Watch Nance and Clarkson disappear in the playoffs like all inexperienced role players do. Hood is going to be a disaster in the playoffs too, Hill is injured but he has the best chance of being productive of the 4 guys. Brooklyn pick is looking more like 8 or 9 now

ewing
04-10-2018, 01:48 PM
Watch Nance and Clarkson disappear in the playoffs like all inexperienced role players do. Hood is going to be a disaster in the playoffs too, Hill is injured but he has the best chance of being productive of the 4 guys. Brooklyn pick is looking more like 8 or 9 now

I heard on PSD that Hill was a better player then Irving. Wonder why these same posters are claiming that LeBron has no help after adding him and other guys


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HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 01:55 PM
I heard on PSD that Hill was a better player then Irving. Wonder why these same posters are claiming that LeBron has no help after adding him and other guys


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Naver saw that but wow thats embarrassing. Cavs are going to miss Kyrie more than anyone knows

Vee-Rex
04-10-2018, 02:02 PM
Watch Nance and Clarkson disappear in the playoffs like all inexperienced role players do. Hood is going to be a disaster in the playoffs too, Hill is injured but he has the best chance of being productive of the 4 guys. Brooklyn pick is looking more like 8 or 9 now

I could see Clarkson struggling at first but then finding his way. Depends on how angry he gets: he plays better when he's full of vigor.

I think Nance is fundamentally sound and would do well. He's also extremely confident and seems to have the right kind of mentality. As long as he keeps active hands on defense, rotates well, rolls hard to the rim on PnR and plays with energy, he'll be fine.

Hood does kind of have disaster written all over him. He's already a super streaky shooter as-is, but he also has some well documented mental issues especially when it deals with overcoming pressure. Disaster is the perfect word.

I think Hill will be fine if he stays healthy (he is healthy now btw). He's a vet that has a TON of playoff experience.

Vee-Rex
04-10-2018, 02:08 PM
Naver saw that but wow thats embarrassing. Cavs are going to miss Kyrie more than anyone knows

Hill, Rubio, Lowry - all were said to be better than Irving.

I still have fresh crow to serve to the people who said all of that, but of course they are trying to avoid the subject.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 02:15 PM
I could see Clarkson struggling at first but then finding his way. Depends on how angry he gets: he plays better when he's full of vigor.

I think Nance is fundamentally sound and would do well. He's also extremely confident and seems to have the right kind of mentality. As long as he keeps active hands on defense, rotates well, rolls hard to the rim on PnR and plays with energy, he'll be fine.

Hood does kind of have disaster written all over him. He's already a super streaky shooter as-is, but he also has some well documented mental issues especially when it deals with overcoming pressure. Disaster is the perfect word.

I think Hill will be fine if he stays healthy (he is healthy now btw). He's a vet that has a TON of playoff experience.

Seems like Clarkson is streaky as hell and turnover prone lately. Naver been in the playoffs, and I don't turst him or Nance though Nance could do well out the 2 of them.

There's a reason Jazz let go of Hood and though its not known but the public, they are arguably a better team without him on the roster FWIW.

I've seen enough George Hill vs Heat playoffs to know that he's been there done that, but he needs to get healthy and needs to get more used to this Cavs team

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 02:17 PM
Hill, Rubio, Lowry - all were said to be better than Irving.

I still have fresh crow to serve to the people who said all of that, but of course they are trying to avoid the subject.

That's sad lol. Kyrie is a lot better than a lot of people think

IndyRealist
04-10-2018, 04:07 PM
George Hill was better than Kyrie Irving....four years ago. I don't understand how people think what happened this year changes what happened then. One is 31, the other is 26. By your logic, Kyrie is better than Jordan because Jordan is retired.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-10-2018, 04:10 PM
George Hill was better than Kyrie Irving....four years ago. I don't understand how people think what happened this year changes what happened then. One is 31, the other is 26. By your logic, Kyrie is better than Jordan because Jordan is retired.

Were you one of those guys that Vee'Rex mentioned? I bet it was like 2 years ago too. :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
04-10-2018, 04:10 PM
Kyrie wasn't staying in Cleveland long term, and we all know LeBron is leaving, so getting the pick was worth it. IT was a longterm throw-in to make salaries match. Both sides are still happy with the trade.

ding ding

ewing
04-10-2018, 04:30 PM
George Hill was better than Kyrie Irving....four years ago. I don't understand how people think what happened this year changes what happened then. One is 31, the other is 26. By your logic, Kyrie is better than Jordan because Jordan is retired.

No he wasn't. 4 years ago Hill would have been swallowed up and turned into a stand still jump shooter averaging about 10 points game and a couple assists on the Cavs. Just like he is now. Dude is not a bad player and not far removed from being a competent PG on the Jazz. He just isn't as good as Irving. He is a better defender and good shooter in his own right.

basketfan4life
04-11-2018, 06:45 AM
Kyrie Irving scored a c'ship winning 3 over Steph Curry. At the time nobody was scoring for the last 3 minutes.
He scored 40+ on 2 of last 4 games. The man is a proven champion, he has that kind of blood in his veins.

He can even win an mvp award somewhere in his carrier.

No cavs didn't win that trade. They did what they can because Irving wanted out.

ewing
04-11-2018, 08:47 AM
Kyrie Irving scored a c'ship winning 3 over Steph Curry. At the time nobody was scoring for the last 3 minutes.
He scored 40+ on 2 of last 4 games. The man is a proven champion, he has that kind of blood in his veins.

He can even win an mvp award somewhere in his carrier.

No cavs didn't win that trade. They did what they can because Irving wanted out.

He’s no Ricky Rubio


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IndyRealist
04-11-2018, 09:07 AM
No he wasn't. 4 years ago Hill would have been swallowed up and turned into a stand still jump shooter averaging about 10 points game and a couple assists on the Cavs. Just like he is now. Dude is not a bad player and not far removed from being a competent PG on the Jazz. He just isn't as good as Irving. He is a better defender and good shooter in his own right.

Irving is an alpha player, but he wasn't terribly effective for several years. You could tell he was GOING TO BE GOOD, but that doesn't make him good at the time. Lillard had virtually the same progression. Comparing single years, without question Hill edged out Irving for a couple of them.

ewing
04-11-2018, 10:25 AM
Irving is an alpha player, but he wasn't terribly effective for several years. You could tell he was GOING TO BE GOOD, but that doesn't make him good at the time. Lillard had virtually the same progression. Comparing single years, without question Hill edged out Irving for a couple of them.

Dam was better then George Hill the day he entered the league and I like Hill.

IKnowHoops
04-11-2018, 10:28 AM
If the Cavs knew they would have the 8th best chance to win the lottery back in July, I don't think they would have accepted the trade IMO.

If the Cavs knew Kyrie was going to need back to back knee surgeries and would be out for the playoffs, they definitely accept the trade, lol what?

Vee-Rex
04-11-2018, 10:47 AM
If the Cavs knew Kyrie was going to need back to back knee surgeries and would be out for the playoffs, they definitely accept the trade, lol what?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/533/710/7ac.jpg

IKnowHoops
04-11-2018, 10:48 AM
I heard on PSD that Hill was a better player then Irving. Wonder why these same posters are claiming that LeBron has no help after adding him and other guys


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Trust me, Vee Rex and I were laughing at those people saying such things.

IndyRealist
04-11-2018, 11:06 AM
Dam was better then George Hill the day he entered the league and I like Hill.

Except he wasn't. That's mistaking quantity for quality. As was noted in other threads, it is easy for #1 picks to put up huge scoring numbers. Their teams are usually trash, and they have free license to take all the shots they want. It's 10x worse when it's your PG, who already has the ball in his hands and can call off the play and hunt for his numbers anytime he wants to. "Face of the franchise" can usually do whatever he wants, i.e. Wiggins.

ewing
04-11-2018, 11:31 AM
Except he wasn't. That's mistaking quantity for quality. As was noted in other threads, it is easy for #1 picks to put up huge scoring numbers. Their teams are usually trash, and they have free license to take all the shots they want. It's 10x worse when it's your PG, who already has the ball in his hands and can call off the play and hunt for his numbers anytime he wants to. "Face of the franchise" can usually do whatever he wants, i.e. Wiggins.

Portland won 52 games Dams second year and his numbers were very comparable to his first year. He was also taken 6th so while was certainly going to get his shot he didn't walk in as the face of the franchise. Bottom line dude could ball. As for Kyrie its getting old. He's good. IDK maybe you don't like his game but by the time LeBron got there 4 years ago he was a better player the George Hill ever was

Jamiecballer
04-11-2018, 05:19 PM
I heard on PSD that Hill was a better player then Irving. Wonder why these same posters are claiming that LeBron has no help after adding him and other guys


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGeorge Hill was better then [emoji50]

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IndyRealist
04-11-2018, 08:21 PM
Portland won 52 games Dams second year and his numbers were very comparable to his first year. He was also taken 6th so while was certainly going to get his shot he didn't walk in as the face of the franchise. Bottom line dude could ball. As for Kyrie its getting old. He's good. IDK maybe you don't like his game but by the time LeBron got there 4 years ago he was a better player the George Hill ever was

Virtually the same argument is going on here: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?934105-Official-ROTY-thread/page14 about Mitchell vs. Simmons.

ewing
04-11-2018, 08:31 PM
Virtually the same argument is going on here: http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?934105-Official-ROTY-thread/page14 about Mitchell vs. Simmons.

Not really

IKnowHoops
04-11-2018, 11:07 PM
Not really

Haha, see Ewing, it’s actually the people like you, the ones rooting against Bron with the crazy notions. Welcome to my world. You look/sound just like them every time you build a case against Bron, as do most. Dude is an f-ing super soldier.

ewing
04-12-2018, 06:25 AM
Haha, see Ewing, it’s actually the people like you, the ones rooting against Bron with the crazy notions. Welcome to my world. You look/sound just like them every time you build a case against Bron, as do most. Dude is an f-ing super soldier.

What are you talking about?


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Chronz
04-13-2018, 05:24 PM
What dies well documented mean?


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His teammatesall knew hewas done

Chronz
04-13-2018, 05:26 PM
What are you talking about?


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He's talking about how you're usually wrong when it comes to the bron

ewing
04-13-2018, 05:30 PM
He's talking about how you're usually wrong when it comes to the bron

We weren’t talking about him


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JasonJohnHorn
04-14-2018, 02:55 PM
Kyrie Irving scored a c'ship winning 3 over Steph Curry. At the time nobody was scoring for the last 3 minutes.
He scored 40+ on 2 of last 4 games. The man is a proven champion, he has that kind of blood in his veins.

He can even win an mvp award somewhere in his carrier.

No cavs didn't win that trade. They did what they can because Irving wanted out.

He's got ice in his veins, as they say.

Also... he has knees made out of ice.

Not a good combination.

I'll gladly concede that he was a beast of Cleveland during that title run. There is no doubt. That said... I want to see what he does when he doesn't have the league's best player opening things up for him.

I've no doubt that he can succeed; he's proven that with Boston this year. However, what he does in the playoffs as the leader.. that remains to be seen.

Chronz
04-15-2018, 11:08 AM
We weren’t talking about him


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You'll find a way

ewing
04-15-2018, 11:44 AM
You'll find a way

You guys are bringing him up. We were taking about Hill, Lillard, and Kyrie


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IKnowHoops
04-18-2018, 02:40 PM
You guys are bringing him up. We were taking about Hill, Lillard, and Kyrie


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The same guys that said George Hill was better than Kyrie also have the same filthy habit as you do of “reaching” in order to discredit Bron/Cavs. This just shows an example of the lunacy “we both” see. What Chronz was saying is correct. I said when you discredit Bron, you sound just like they do. I’m just glad you were able to see how bad ur —— actually stinks when it comes to your Bron takes.

Chronz
04-18-2018, 03:14 PM
You guys are bringing him up. We were taking about Hill, Lillard, and Kyrie


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Pretty sure you brought up bron having hill or something

Ishkabibble
04-19-2018, 04:18 PM
I would prefer that pick over kyrie and IT at the dollars they will make... They are both 1 way players with kyrie being the better player but overall not a top 20 player in my opinion... Technically the cavs got lottery pick/nance/clarkson which is just far and away better than kyrie... Kyrie going forward with those knee issues and his defense only getting worse while getting an eventual max is LMFAO worthy

LMAO. You know 100% of absolutely nothing about Kyrie's knee, how it's responding to surgery and how he'll play next year or in future seasons. Just some drivel about "his defense is only gonna get worse." Nothing more than conjecture and speculation; you don't know. That Brooklyn pick is likely to be 7 or 8, not 2 or 3. Nance and Clarkson? That's what you're hanging your "won the trade" hat on? Sure, that's why the rebuilding Lakers readily parted ways with them. LOL....

beasted86
04-19-2018, 05:35 PM
Given Cleveland's draft history, I wouldn't be excited about that 8th pick (if it doesn't go higher).

Vee-Rex
04-20-2018, 09:47 AM
I would prefer that pick over kyrie and IT at the dollars they will make... They are both 1 way players with kyrie being the better player but overall not a top 20 player in my opinion... Technically the cavs got lottery pick/nance/clarkson which is just far and away better than kyrie... Kyrie going forward with those knee issues and his defense only getting worse while getting an eventual max is LMFAO worthy

LMAO. You know 100% of absolutely nothing about Kyrie's knee, how it's responding to surgery and how he'll play next year or in future seasons. Just some drivel about "his defense is only gonna get worse." Nothing more than conjecture and speculation; you don't know. That Brooklyn pick is likely to be 7 or 8, not 2 or 3. Nance and Clarkson? That's what you're hanging your "won the trade" hat on? Sure, that's why the rebuilding Lakers readily parted ways with them. LOL....

Your post just threw me for a loop. You look like you're arguing with yourself. I'm like... gollum/smeagul, is that you? :laugh2:

Must be a misquote.

Chrisclover
04-22-2018, 11:47 AM
Damn this thread will never end as long as LeBron is struggling.

Ishkabibble
04-26-2018, 03:57 PM
Your post just threw me for a loop. You look like you're arguing with yourself. I'm like... gollum/smeagul, is that you? :laugh2:

Must be a misquote.

LOL. Yeah, I hit "Reply With Quote" and that's the way it came up.
Came across as a very Smeagul-like post indeed.