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WaDe03
04-03-2018, 12:50 PM
981185235843977216

Do you think he is traded? If so, where do you think he goes? What's the best offer you can come up with for your team?

c.c.
04-03-2018, 12:57 PM
Boston

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:04 PM
I think Boston too, they would have to send 1 of Hayward or Horford though right?

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:05 PM
Maybe Tatum or Brown/Hayward and a top pick.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 01:06 PM
Don't see the Spurs trading Kawhi unless he asked to be traded.

But let's entertain the idea.

My Cavs have nothing to give him. Spurs would get a MASSIVE haul in return and I don't see it happening from Cleveland. The best we could offer would be some combination of Hood, Osman, Zizic, Nets 1st (if it lands top 4 that would be good), and a future Cavs 1st or two. That would be some young, promising assets to offer. And we'd have to take back a bad contract as well to help persuade the Spurs but they don't have any bad contracts they want to get out of, unless they want to move on from Gasol.

Even then, Boston (and other teams) could simply outbid us.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 01:09 PM
Maybe Tatum or Brown/Hayward and a top pick.

Strongly doubt they'd trade Hayward. They want to run Irving/Hayward/Leonard for their future.

They have the best firepower to get someone like Leonard. Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Smart, Theis, and lots of draft picks.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
Strongly doubt they'd trade Hayward. They want to run Irving/Hayward/Leonard for their future.

They have the best firepower to get someone like Leonard. Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Smart, Theis, and lots of draft picks.

They would have to trade Horford or Hayward to match salaries though wouldn't they?

valade16
04-03-2018, 01:16 PM
Maybe Tatum or Brown/Hayward and a top pick.

I actually doubt SA would take Hayward as the center part of the deal because he's coming off a major injury.

I think if SA does trade him to Boston they'll ask for Brown/Tatum (but Boston would likely only give up 1).

I could see the deal being for Brown (or Tatum), Horford, and a 1st Round pick or two.

Horford would be the win now component for SA to pair with LMA but isn't a long term albatross of a contract and Brown/Tatum and the 1st would be to rebuild in case they start dropping off.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 01:17 PM
Celtics could offer:

(Tatum and Rozier) as main pieces +
(Morris and Baynes) as salary filler +
2019 Kings 1st round and 2019 ClippersORGrizzlies 1st round pick

valade16
04-03-2018, 01:17 PM
Blazers likely don't have as much as other teams, but I imagine their offer would be McCollum, Zach Collins, and several future 1st round picks.

thephoenixson28
04-03-2018, 01:23 PM
Phoenix

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 01:27 PM
Blazers likely don't have as much as other teams, but I imagine their offer would be McCollum, Zach Collins, and several future 1st round picks.

I'd looooove for the Blazers to get Kawhi.

McCollum might be the BEST single player that's available that the Spurs could get, if we ignore potential of young players and draft picks. I wouldn't count you guys out that's for sure.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:27 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:28 PM
Wiggins + a late draft pick for Kawhi makes the most sense for both teams. Maximize Kawhi's value and grab a young controlled piece that Pop could mold.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:29 PM
Plus I'm sure the Spurs want some kind of all star level player back so CJ would be nice for them.

dhopisthename
04-03-2018, 01:31 PM
Blazers likely don't have as much as other teams, but I imagine their offer would be McCollum, Zach Collins, and several future 1st round picks.

plus i doubt they want to trade him to a western conference foe.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:31 PM
The Butler deal actually looks very good for both sides now. PG was expiring. Absolutely no way the Spurs accept just Rozier and Smart even with a pick.

For who the Bulls? I couldn't disagree more. Don't think Dunn will amount to much more than an average player, Lauri I'm a big fan of, he's a generational big, absolutely hate LaVine, about to spend 100 million on a guy who is a 6th man on a championship caliber team. Pass.

dhopisthename
04-03-2018, 01:32 PM
I mean the real question we all need answered is how serious is his injury and what kind of lasting effects will it impose.

Cal827
04-03-2018, 01:34 PM
From what Vee-Rex Posted. Boston would be the immediate front runner for any star that might want off their team (If Boston wants him). Tatum, Brown, Rozier, a bunch of likely top 5-10 picks... Jesus Christ :laugh2:

Chronz
04-03-2018, 01:35 PM
Deandre, avery and Louis in mid December is all my clips can offer at best but I have a 7 year franchise where kawhi and lamelo ball are taking on lebron on the Sixers

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:35 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

The Butler deal actually looks very good for both sides now. PG was expiring. Absolutely no way the Spurs accept just Rozier and Smart even with a pick.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 01:36 PM
I mean the real question we all need answered is how serious is his injury and what kind of lasting effects will it impose.

From what I've seen, he's healthy but doesn't want to risk it.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:37 PM
Irving isn't a superstar, Paul George has la in his mind the butler trade doesn't look that lopsided tbh, and kawhi is better than all.

Teams don't give up much for all stars or fringe superstars by kawhi is much more than that.

In what world is Kyrie not a superstar? He's elite on both ends of the floor. Butler and George are both Top 15 players and this year you could easily argue that Butler is in the top 10.

IndyRealist
04-03-2018, 01:39 PM
Best offer: Victor Oladipo, Cory Joseph, and Myles Turner for Leonard and Pau. No idea if salaries work.

I wouldn't do it though. If Leonard isn't happy in San Antonio he's going to hate Indianapolis. Oladipo is fine in Indy but he's the only piece San Antonio would really want.

Chronz
04-03-2018, 01:40 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

Irving isn't a superstar, Paul George has la in his mind the butler trade doesn't look that lopsided tbh, and kawhi is better than all.

Teams don't give up much for all stars or fringe superstars by kawhi is much more than that.

ewing
04-03-2018, 01:48 PM
Knicks can offer Noah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:49 PM
First, you're sending them pieces they don't need.

Second, Kawhi is better than all of the ones you mentioned.

Third, the Spurs are better ran than any other franchise out there. When was they last time you could argue they lost a trade?

Fourth, Oladipo is having a better year than PG. Just thought I'd point that out.

For Boston, the main trade piece is likely Tatum. If it's not Tatum then it's Hayward. If it's neither then they will be outbid.

Good grief you cannot be serious? They're not trading Hayward, that is laughable, they're also not trading Tatum. Tatum has the upside to be a top 10 player in this league and he's 19. Find me a superstar who ever fetched a great return, you'll search and find nothing.

IndyRealist
04-03-2018, 01:50 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

First, you're sending them pieces they don't need.

Second, Kawhi is better than all of the ones you mentioned.

Third, the Spurs are better ran than any other franchise out there. When was they last time you could argue they lost a trade?

Fourth, Oladipo is having a better year than PG. Just thought I'd point that out.

For Boston, the main trade piece is likely Tatum. If it's not Tatum then it's Hayward. If it's neither then they will be outbid.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:50 PM
Everyone freaking out. Someone please find me a superstar traded for proper value. You won't because they simply don't.

warfelg
04-03-2018, 01:50 PM
Sixers sending the one of LAL pick/Sac pick that doesn’t convey, Our own 2018 pick, Fultz, Dario/RoCo (pick one), Furkan Korkmaz.

All Pop-ish players.

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2018, 01:51 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

There is an absolutley 0% chance they trade Leoanrd for Rozier and Smart.

That is mental.

The market dictates the value, not whether a player wants out.

Kyrie demanded the trade AFTER CP3 had already been traded, and so there were no teams offering big packages.

Paul George wasn't signing an extension, so no nbody was offering much. Nobody wanted Melo, so NY didn't get much.


But you put Leonard on the market, especially when he's willng to sign with the team he's going to, and suddenly you got NY, LAL, and BOS offering deals. LAL already has good players they are willing to dump. So Boston has to offer somebody.


It's not about whether the player wants out; the players on the trade block usually want out. It's about what other teams are offering.


The Celtics already know they are a 60-win team WITHOUT Hayward (were Kyrie healthy all year, 60 would have been a lock), so if it comes to getting a franchise player in a trade for an All-Star, they will pull the trigger. And if they got throw in an aging big man (Horford) into the deal, they likely would (they got picks and can draft a new C).

I don't think that Horfod/Hayward is likely mind you, but it is more likely than Rozier Smart. They could get more from literally EVERY other team in the league.


You think SAS is going to take an back-up PG and a SG who can't shoot in place of Leoanrd? They already have better options on their team at that position.


And Boston is NOT trading Brown ot Tatum. Those are their young guys with high ceilings who will not only extend any window Kyrie has, but create their own window for title contention (they've already show that are rookies and sophmores they are able to lead a team to a 50-win pace with Hayward and Kyrie on the injured list).


Horford is on the wrong side of 30, and Haywrd is going to have a big question mark hanging over his head wth that injury, and he is expednable now because they know the team can compete without him.

Both are tradeable.

valade16
04-03-2018, 01:52 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

SA would hang up the phone before the words had even left Ainge's mouth on that offer.

If Boston refuses to trade any of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, Tatum or Brown they are not getting Kawhi.

warfelg
04-03-2018, 01:53 PM
Boston would be in a tough position to sign players if they traded Hayward IMO.

First you trade IT after his sister died, was part of the Hayward pitch.

Then the summer after you went all out for Hayward, then he breaks a leg in the first quarter of the first game, and you send him out too? Players wouldn’t feel safe in their commitment meaning anything.

Horford makes more sense, but I would see the Celtics hard pressed to find bigs to shoulder the load like that.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 01:57 PM
Boston would be in a tough position to sign players if they traded Hayward IMO.

First you trade IT after his sister died, was part of the Hayward pitch.

Then the summer after you went all out for Hayward, then he breaks a leg in the first quarter of the first game, and you send him out too? Players wouldn’t feel safe in their commitment meaning anything.

Horford makes more sense, but I would see the Celtics hard pressed to find bigs to shoulder the load like that.

Horford makes 0 sense as does Hayward. They're not moving veterans for Kawhi. Not happening.

RCarlson85
04-03-2018, 01:59 PM
In what world is Kyrie not a superstar? He's elite on both ends of the floor. Butler and George are both Top 15 players and this year you could easily argue that Butler is in the top 10.

This is Kyrie Irving you're talking about, right? In what world is he elite on both ends of the floor? He's a great scorer and one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. Kawhi is on a whole different level compared to Iriving, Butler, or PG. He's easily top 5 in the NBA when you consider what he does on both offense and defense. He's what you call elite on both ends of the floor.

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2018, 02:00 PM
SA would hang up the phone before the words had even left Ainge's mouth on that offer.

If Boston refuses to trade any of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, Tatum or Brown they are not getting Kawhi.

Ahmen. Like there isn't a team in the league that would offer more than a back-up PG and Smart, who couldn't shoot if his life depended on it.

They'd just hang up the phone pick up any number of all stars being offered to team.

People think that just because Paul, Melo, and Kyrie recently went at bargan bottom prices that all all-stars go for cheap.


Paul is on an expiring contract and refuse to sign an extension

Melo: nobody wanted him.

Kyrie waited until teams had already made their moves to demand a trade. Had he done it during the season, or before the draft, Cleveland would have easily been able to get CP3 or something better than what they got (and even with that situation still managed to get an All-Star (IT) a lottery pick, and a couple of solid role players).


The kind of value a team can get for an All-Star is dependant on the market. The fact that there is a headline saying "teams lining up to enquire about Leonard" suggests that the Spurs will be the seller in a seller's market.

NY makes and offer; they call up LAL and say what that is. LAL ups it, they call Boston and Boston ups there. They call NY back, they kick in something else. LAL hold, and then Boston is suddenly in a position where they can give up a 32-year-old C and a guy who sat on the bench all last year for an franchise player to add onto a franchise player and they'll still have three great young guys (Brown, Tatum, and Rozier) and a glue guy (Smart) and picks to grab a C in the draft, plus they have Monroe to cover the middle.

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 02:00 PM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

You think the Spurs trade Kawhi for Rozier, Smart, and maaaaybe a pick?

You're severely undervaluing Kawhi. He's a top 5'ish player when healthy and will be just 27 years old in June. He'll command a lot more than that.

Cal827
04-03-2018, 02:02 PM
:laugh2: Kyrie is a good defender?!

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2018, 02:03 PM
Boston would be in a tough position to sign players if they traded Hayward IMO.

First you trade IT after his sister died, was part of the Hayward pitch.

Then the summer after you went all out for Hayward, then he breaks a leg in the first quarter of the first game, and you send him out too? Players wouldn’t feel safe in their commitment meaning anything.

Horford makes more sense, but I would see the Celtics hard pressed to find bigs to shoulder the load like that.

Do any players feel safe signing with anyteam?

I mean... the Clips just signed Blake to an extension then dumped him.

This isn't the frist time that happened.

Hayward is expednable. This is a 60-win team without out him. People will say "Do I want to play in Boston green with Kyrie and Leonard? YEAH!!" Not, "Well... they traded a player to get better... I don't want that."


I mean... they already shafted Ray Allen, traded PP (who wanted to retire in Boston and only wear one jersery), dumped KG (who also wanted to retire in Boston) and also trade Rondo after he helped the team win a title.

And they STILL signed Hayward.

I mean... the IT thing... IT was limited. He helped the team yes, but a team with him as the best player has a low ceiling.

Players will sign with who ever offers them $$$ and/or gives them a chance to win.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:08 PM
This is Kyrie Irving you're talking about, right? In what world is he elite on both ends of the floor? He's a great scorer and one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. Kawhi is on a whole different level compared to Iriving, Butler, or PG. He's easily top 5 in the NBA when you consider what he does on both offense and defense. He's what you call elite on both ends of the floor.

What NBA are you watching?

First of all, he isn't one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. That is BANANAS.

Kyrie was graded out in the top 25% by the Celtics FO in terms of defense.

Next, his defensive win share is 31st in the league out of every single player.

If you've watched him at all, he can lock up when he wants to and take over the game whenever he wants. He's very clearly a superstar.

warfelg
04-03-2018, 02:09 PM
Do any players feel safe signing with anyteam?

I mean... the Clips just signed Blake to an extension then dumped him.

This isn't the frist time that happened.

Hayward is expednable. This is a 60-win team without out him. People will say "Do I want to play in Boston green with Kyrie and Leonard? YEAH!!" Not, "Well... they traded a player to get better... I don't want that."


I mean... they already shafted Ray Allen, traded PP (who wanted to retire in Boston and only wear one jersery), dumped KG (who also wanted to retire in Boston) and also trade Rondo after he helped the team win a title.

And they STILL signed Hayward.

I mean... the IT thing... IT was limited. He helped the team yes, but a team with him as the best player has a low ceiling.

Players will sign with who ever offers them $$$ and/or gives them a chance to win.

PP and KG were at the end of their careers and Ainge got a stupid good deal.

Rondo was a locker room cancer at that time.

Ray shafted Boston for Miami much more than Boston shafted him.

Talk about revisionist history....

Heediot
04-03-2018, 02:10 PM
If he leaves the Spurs. Damn, his uncle must have some real influence on him. How do you bail on a world class organization that has the track record, coaching and management that they currently do?

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:10 PM
There's a reason they signed Heyward to a long term deal... This isn't the Clippers situation with Blake where he's a declining player once he loses his athleticism... Clippers also aren't positioned at all to be contenders. The Celtics are. 0.00000% chance Heyward is in the trade.

NYKalltheway
04-03-2018, 02:17 PM
Knicks can offer Noah


Make it happen :D

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 02:18 PM
Holy **** lol!

meloman1592
04-03-2018, 02:19 PM
Knicks can offer Noah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i literally spit my water out. I wish we had a real shot at Kawhi

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:21 PM
How does Horford make zero sense? He's an overpaid player at this point with several years remaining on his contract. Boston would probably prefer to move him if they can get anything of value so they can use that money to re-sign Kyrie and Brown/Tatum when their contracts expire. I imagine Boston's ownership would prefer not to spend $200 million on salary.

Actually, they wouldn't. Horford does so much that the box score doesn't show. He's extremely valuable to them and Boston loves him. So no, they're not looking to move him. Do you watch the NBA? It's apparent you don't.

ewing
04-03-2018, 02:22 PM
What NBA are you watching?

First of all, he isn't one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. That is BANANAS.

Kyrie was graded out in the top 25% by the Celtics FO in terms of defense.

Next, his defensive win share is 31st in the league out of every single player.

If you've watched him at all, he can lock up when he wants to and take over the game whenever he wants. He's very clearly a superstar.

But he played with Bron so we have to pretend he sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

valade16
04-03-2018, 02:23 PM
Horford makes 0 sense as does Hayward. They're not moving veterans for Kawhi. Not happening.

How does Horford make zero sense? He's an overpaid player at this point with several years remaining on his contract. Boston would probably prefer to move him if they can get anything of value so they can use that money to re-sign Kyrie and Brown/Tatum when their contracts expire. I imagine Boston's ownership would prefer not to spend $200 million on salary.

kdspurman
04-03-2018, 02:24 PM
Line up all you want

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:27 PM
Ok, whatever you say. I'm 99% sure you're the only one on this entire site that thinks Kyrie is anything more than a liability on defense.

One of the best FO's in the NBA agrees with me and the numbers also agree with me.

RCarlson85
04-03-2018, 02:27 PM
What NBA are you watching?

First of all, he isn't one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. That is BANANAS.

Kyrie was graded out in the top 25% by the Celtics FO in terms of defense.

Next, his defensive win share is 31st in the league out of every single player.

If you've watched him at all, he can lock up when he wants to and take over the game whenever he wants. He's very clearly a superstar.

Ok, whatever you say. I'm 99% sure you're the only one on this entire site that thinks Kyrie is anything more than a liability on defense.

RCarlson85
04-03-2018, 02:28 PM
:laugh2: Kyrie is a good defender?!

That's what 85BearsDefense says...

Vee-Rex
04-03-2018, 02:33 PM
Line up all you want

https://i.imgflip.com/27o2gs.jpg

Hawkeye15
04-03-2018, 02:33 PM
Wiggins + a late draft pick for Kawhi makes the most sense for both teams. Maximize Kawhi's value and grab a young controlled piece that Pop could mold.

Spurs FO is way too smart for that. It would make me have a 2 year long boner if it happened

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:34 PM
So if the Spurs said "you can have Kawhi for Horford straight up" the Celtics would say no?

Why would Boston create a massive hole on their team while not filling a need? So Brown is coming off the bench now and we don't have a single respectable center. Lovely.

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:35 PM
I think he is a reasonable defender. This site has a basis against him. Plus LeBron fan boys have to cut him down. Just last year there was big debate in here regarding Rubio and Kyrie. Plus one that was Hill vs Kyrie. Well the Cavs got Hill now. I wonder how many people still think he is better?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad to see someone here has a brain. Was worried the NBA forum was permanently filled with mouth breathers.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 02:36 PM
Actually, they wouldn't. Horford does so much that the box score doesn't show. He's extremely valuable to them and Boston loves him. So no, they're not looking to move him. Do you watch the NBA? It's apparent you don't.

So if the Spurs said "you can have Kawhi for Horford straight up" the Celtics would say no?

ewing
04-03-2018, 02:36 PM
One of the best FO's in the NBA agrees with me and the numbers also agree with me.

I think he is a reasonable defender. This site has a basis against him. Plus LeBron fan boys have to cut him down. Just last year there was big debate in here regarding Rubio and Kyrie. Plus one that was Hill vs Kyrie. Well the Cavs got Hill now. I wonder how many people still think he is better?


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kdspurman
04-03-2018, 02:39 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/27o2gs.jpg

:laugh:

ewing
04-03-2018, 02:42 PM
Why would Boston create a massive hole on their team while not filling a need? So Brown is coming off the bench now and we don't have a single respectable center. Lovely.

Leonard fills a lot of needs for any team. Add him and play center by committee, you are a lot better


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hugepatsfan
04-03-2018, 02:44 PM
They would have to trade Horford or Hayward to match salaries though wouldn't they?

No. They don't have to.

If a team is sending out salary of $6,533,334 to $19.6 million they are allowed to take back the outgoing amount plus $5M (source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84). Kawhi is set to make $20,099,188 so BOS will have to send out that amount minus $5M - $15,099,188.

All of the following guys would be in play if they were to make a trade for Kawhi:

Jayson Tatum - $6,700,800
Marcus Morris - $5,375,000
Jaylen Brown - $5,169,960
Terry Rozier - $3,050,390
Guershon Yabusele - $2,667,600
Abdel Nader - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)
Semi Ojeleye - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)
Daniel Theis - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)

With some combination of those guys I'm sure BOS can get to the salary threshold they need to get to. That doesn't mean SA wouldn't demand one of Horford/Hayward but BOS doesn't have to include them for salary purposes.

I imagine that if BOS deals for Kawhi it would be something like Tatum, Morris, Rozier, Yabusele, '18 BOS 1st rounder, '19 SAC 1st rounder. Try to re-sign Marcus Smart (bird rights), Shane Larkin (vet min or bi-annual exception) and add a bench scoring wing like Tyreke Evans with the MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Brown / Smart
Hayward / Evans
Leonard / Ojeleye
Horford / Theis

HandsOnTheWheel
04-03-2018, 02:49 PM
Like the Philly scenario and Kawhi-Embiid-Simmons would be sick, but in reality Kawhi isn't going anywhere simply cause he stands to make the most money with SA.

mightybosstone
04-03-2018, 02:51 PM
Like the Philly scenario and Kawhi-Embiid-Simmons would be sick, but in reality Kawhi isn't going anywhere simply cause he stands to make the most money with SA.

But if he's traded, why couldn't he get the same supermax deal from the team he's dealt to? Is there a piece of that contract I'm not understanding?

mike_noodles
04-03-2018, 02:52 PM
The question really becomes, who do the Spurs want back in return. They will get the player back that they want.

hugepatsfan
04-03-2018, 02:53 PM
How does Horford make zero sense? He's an overpaid player at this point with several years remaining on his contract. Boston would probably prefer to move him if they can get anything of value so they can use that money to re-sign Kyrie and Brown/Tatum when their contracts expire. I imagine Boston's ownership would prefer not to spend $200 million on salary.

Horford's deal expires in 2 years (it's a given he takes the option on that second year). That's the same summer that Brown hits RFA. Tatum is still on a rookie deal at that point for another season. So Horford isn't in any way a problem for re-signing Brown/Tatum.

BOS is at about $107.4M in committed salary next year. That leaves about $15.6M of room under the projected tax line. Their FAs are Marcus Smart, Greg Monroe, Aron Baynes and Shane Larkin. They also have a cap hold for their late 1st round pick (assuming the LAL pick doesn't miraculously convey. With cap space drying up Smart could be looking at MLE type money, Larkin is a bi-annual exception type guy if not the minimum. And then with Theis back they'd only need to re-sign one of Monroe/Baynes for tax payer's MLE type money. Basically, BOS is right on the edge of tax for next year but can stay below it if they really want to.

That next year when Kyrie is up would make a spike and Horford's deal would be a bit of an nuisance for that but it's just a one year thing there. Then he expires after that so all in all I don't think Horford's deal is much of a burden at all, though I agree he's overpaid.

kdspurman
04-03-2018, 02:57 PM
But if he's traded, why couldn't he get the same supermax deal from the team he's dealt to? Is there a piece of that contract I'm not understanding?


This is what I see:


A player qualifies for the DPE, which can be used to give a player a contract extension or to sign him as a free agent, if he does one of the following:

1. He makes one of the three all-NBA teams or is named either defensive player of the year or most valuable player the previous season.

2. He has made one of the three all-NBA teams or has been named defensive player of the year in two of the prior three seasons or the league’s most valuable player in one of the three prior seasons.

And this crucial stipulation: He has to be on the team that drafted him or has to have been traded on his rookie deal to another team.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/12/15/a-deeper-look-inside-the-nbas-new-collective-bargaining-agreement/?utm_term=.f61ea85f5af2

85BearsDefense
04-03-2018, 02:58 PM
Oh, I get it now, you're a Celtics fan. That tells me all I need to know.

I'm actually a Bulls fan. Born and raised in the suburbs of Chicago. So no, I'm not in fact a Celtics fan.

RCarlson85
04-03-2018, 02:58 PM
One of the best FO's in the NBA agrees with me and the numbers also agree with me.

Oh, I get it now, you're a Celtics fan. That tells me all I need to know.

hugepatsfan
04-03-2018, 03:04 PM
Why would Boston create a massive hole on their team while not filling a need? So Brown is coming off the bench now and we don't have a single respectable center. Lovely.

Center would be a hole obviously. But they'd have a top 5 player in the NBA on the wing. Brown comes off the bench? Ok, so now we have great depth?

Obviously the team would be better if you kept Horford like in the scenario I outlined above. But SA might still want to compete and part of that could be getting back a player like Horford who'd fit tremendously in their system. But Leaonard on the wing and center by committee is a better team than Horford at center with Ojeleye/Nader/etc. combining for backup minutes on the wing. Easily.

HandsOnTheWheel
04-03-2018, 03:07 PM
dp.

valade16
04-03-2018, 03:10 PM
Horford's deal expires in 2 years (it's a given he takes the option on that second year). That's the same summer that Brown hits RFA. Tatum is still on a rookie deal at that point for another season. So Horford isn't in any way a problem for re-signing Brown/Tatum.

BOS is at about $107.4M in committed salary next year. That leaves about $15.6M of room under the projected tax line. Their FAs are Marcus Smart, Greg Monroe, Aron Baynes and Shane Larkin. They also have a cap hold for their late 1st round pick (assuming the LAL pick doesn't miraculously convey. With cap space drying up Smart could be looking at MLE type money, Larkin is a bi-annual exception type guy if not the minimum. And then with Theis back they'd only need to re-sign one of Monroe/Baynes for tax payer's MLE type money. Basically, BOS is right on the edge of tax for next year but can stay below it if they really want to.

That next year when Kyrie is up would make a spike and Horford's deal would be a bit of an nuisance for that but it's just a one year thing there. Then he expires after that so all in all I don't think Horford's deal is much of a burden at all, though I agree he's overpaid.

No, I'm not saying his deal is burden preventing them from re-signing those guys, I'm saying Boston's ownership probably doesn't want to spend $250 million on salary.

Kyrie is $20 mil (and if he opts out to re-sign a deal it would likely be in the $30 mil range), Hayward will be $30 mil, Brown will re-sign for likely $20 mil at a minimum (if he continues to progress it could be $30 mil).

At that point you have possibly $90 mil for Kyrie, Hayward and Brown and knowing you have to re-sign Tatum the next year for $20-$30 mil. I just don't see Boston also being willing to re-sign Horford at that point for $30 mil and possibly pay 5 guys $30 mil per year (or even $20 mil per year for 2-3).

So Horford is likely an expendable asset in that they can use him and his value to get someone they want to keep longer term rather than let Horford walk as a FA or risk paying him a ton to re-sign him (think pretty much exactly what they did to Isaiah).

HandsOnTheWheel
04-03-2018, 03:10 PM
This is what I see:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/12/15/a-deeper-look-inside-the-nbas-new-collective-bargaining-agreement/?utm_term=.f61ea85f5af2

This. Incentivizes players to stay with the team that drafted them.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 04:12 PM
No. They don't have to.

If a team is sending out salary of $6,533,334 to $19.6 million they are allowed to take back the outgoing amount plus $5M (source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84). Kawhi is set to make $20,099,188 so BOS will have to send out that amount minus $5M - $15,099,188.

All of the following guys would be in play if they were to make a trade for Kawhi:

Jayson Tatum - $6,700,800
Marcus Morris - $5,375,000
Jaylen Brown - $5,169,960
Terry Rozier - $3,050,390
Guershon Yabusele - $2,667,600
Abdel Nader - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)
Semi Ojeleye - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)
Daniel Theis - $1,378,242 (non-guaranteed)

With some combination of those guys I'm sure BOS can get to the salary threshold they need to get to. That doesn't mean SA wouldn't demand one of Horford/Hayward but BOS doesn't have to include them for salary purposes.

I imagine that if BOS deals for Kawhi it would be something like Tatum, Morris, Rozier, Yabusele, '18 BOS 1st rounder, '19 SAC 1st rounder. Try to re-sign Marcus Smart (bird rights), Shane Larkin (vet min or bi-annual exception) and add a bench scoring wing like Tyreke Evans with the MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Brown / Smart
Hayward / Evans
Leonard / Ojeleye
Horford / Theis

Best team in the East for sure and on the same tier as the Warriors and Rockets.

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2018, 05:44 PM
PP and KG were at the end of their careers and Ainge got a stupid good deal.

Rondo was a locker room cancer at that time.

Ray shafted Boston for Miami much more than Boston shafted him.

Talk about revisionist history....

PP and KG were at the end of their careers, but Ainge had made not that he was willing to trade them for younger guys an assets well before (he openly criticized the old guard in Boston for not trading McHale, Bird, and Parish when they still had value and we past their championship run).

Whether the guy is old or not is beside the point; if you think people aren't going to sign with a team because they traded a guy they signed a year ago, then it's a loyalty issues. What else would be the issue? And if that's it, it isn't about how old the guy is, or how good he is, or how good the deal is. The Spurs and Dallas have made it clear in the past that guys like Dirk, and Duncan and Parker and Manu are untouchable. The Spurs even overpaid Manu last year to keep him from going to Philly. Those teams are loyal to their franchise players. Boston is not. Trading or not trading Hayward (who has played less than 10 minutes in Boston green) is not going to stop a player from signing there.



As for Ray, Boston is the one who put him on the trading block. He was as good as traded. Yes, he Ray left Boston because they kept putting him on the trading block. That's not revisionist history. They didn't get a good trade for him because he was on the last year of a contract and he was 30+; that's the only reason he was able to leave the team instead of getting traded.


You think that is revisionist history? Boston signed off on the deal. The agreed to move Allen. Memphis just got cold feel. And they weren't the only team Boston was talking to. Try looking up the facts on that because calling me out on revising history:


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/ray-allen-celtics-news-rumors-book-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-rajon-rondo-relationship-heat-trade/8ff8ps2z45om1rxr5z8zti32a
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1151521-nba-trade-rumors-ray-allen-deal-would-have-scalped-memphis-grizzlies-roster
http://www.espn.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7830058/doc-rivers-says-boston-celtics-nearly-traded-ray-allen-memphis-grizzlies-oj-mayo
http://www.espn.com/boston/nba/columns/story?columnist=forsberg_chris&id=4926783

R. Johnson#3
04-03-2018, 05:50 PM
If Masai could somehow convince the Spurs to take Ibaka as filler we could offer.

Ibaka, OG, Delon, 2019 1st

There's better offers we could make but that's what I'd start at. If Kawhi is actually available then Masai has a bench full of young talent to offer.

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2018, 05:51 PM
There's a reason they signed Heyward to a long term deal... This isn't the Clippers situation with Blake where he's a declining player once he loses his athleticism... Clippers also aren't positioned at all to be contenders. The Celtics are. 0.00000% chance Heyward is in the trade.

There is a reason they signed him long term: to get better.

And if he can be traded for a better player, there will be a reason why they traded him too.

They didn't sign him because they want him to be in Boston for ever. They signed him because he was the best available player that they could get. And if they can get a beter available player with him as the trade piece, they will do that as well.


I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this.

I mean... it's all speculation anyways, but to pretend like a team who traded away a career franchise player like PP wouldn't trade a guy they signed to a long deal to get better is not reflective of the kind of moves that Ainge has openly practiced in the past.

I mean.... IT helped them recruite Hayward, and then they dumped him to get better.

europagnpilgrim
04-03-2018, 06:48 PM
Sixers sending the one of LAL pick/Sac pick that doesn’t convey, Our own 2018 pick, Fultz, Dario/RoCo (pick one), Furkan Korkmaz.

All Pop-ish players.

a healthy trio of Simmons - Embiid - Leonard would be super scary, thing is they are coming off or dealing with injuries but I would roll the dice since they all 3 are super young on the right side of 25, Leonard is either at that age or pushing it, that would be 4-5 strong contending years and finally getting it right from the AI3 disaster drafting/trading era

Raps18-19 Champ
04-03-2018, 07:24 PM
Cavs offer Love and the pick for Kawhi after Lebron resigns.

Raps18-19 Champ
04-03-2018, 07:26 PM
Raptors best offer is like Ibaka, OG, Siakam, and Jakob

IndyRealist
04-03-2018, 08:12 PM
One of the best FO's in the NBA agrees with me and the numbers also agree with me.
There are no good defensive numbers.

zn23
04-03-2018, 08:22 PM
The Spurs would ask for Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown in return for Kawhi and possibly more. Those are the two only two attractive options in Boston. Both young players who play defense and hit over 38% of their 3s. Marcus Smart can't shoot 3s. They're obviously not going to budge with Hayward and Irving. Why would the Spurs want Horford? They already have Gasol and Aldridge.

IndyRealist
04-03-2018, 08:29 PM
What NBA are you watching?

First of all, he isn't one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. That is BANANAS.

Kyrie was graded out in the top 25% by the Celtics FO in terms of defense.

Next, his defensive win share is 31st in the league out of every single player.

If you've watched him at all, he can lock up when he wants to and take over the game whenever he wants. He's very clearly a superstar.

I was curious what you were referencing, so I went back and looked at your post. 31st is terrible when your teammates you spend a ton of time with are #6 (Jayson Tatum) and #11 (Al Horford), and has the 2nd worst DRtg of any Celtic > 1000 minutes played (he's #8 out of 9). He started out extremely strong defensively in October (like he had something to prove) and has faded ever since. Everything suggests he drags down the league's best defense when he's in. The numbers do not agree with you in the slightest.

warfelg
04-03-2018, 08:34 PM
The Spurs would ask for Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown in return for Kawhi and possibly more. Those are the two only two attractive options in Boston. Both young players who play defense and hit over 38% of their 3s. Marcus Smart can't shoot 3s. They're obviously not going to budge with Hayward and Irving. Why would the Spurs want Horford? They already have Gasol and Aldridge.

A 5,000 year old Gasol going to stop them from wanting a 3,000 year old Horford?

warfelg
04-03-2018, 08:39 PM
a healthy trio of Simmons - Embiid - Leonard would be super scary, thing is they are coming off or dealing with injuries but I would roll the dice since they all 3 are super young on the right side of 25, Leonard is either at that age or pushing it, that would be 4-5 strong contending years and finally getting it right from the AI3 disaster drafting/trading era

And no one screams "Pops style player" more than Dario. Plays well in uptempo, well in half court, great post passer, good shooter, solid defender. Fultz has the potential to be a top player. And we can give them two picks and a bench rotational player.

I think that move would give the Spurs a lot they would like to work with.

GREATNESS ONE
04-03-2018, 08:59 PM
Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Ivica Zubac, 2019 1st rounder

kobe4thewinbang
04-03-2018, 10:21 PM
Even Skip "My Spurs!" Bayless is starting to wonder if it may actually happen due to all the prolonged drama.

WaDe03
04-03-2018, 10:34 PM
If Masai could somehow convince the Spurs to take Ibaka as filler we could offer.

Ibaka, OG, Delon, 2019 1st

There's better offers we could make but that's what I'd start at. If Kawhi is actually available then Masai has a bench full of young talent to offer.

:laugh:

IKnowHoops
04-04-2018, 12:14 AM
Spurs FO is way too smart for that. It would make me have a 2 year long boner if it happened

Me too

nastynice
04-04-2018, 12:22 AM
Everyone loves kawhi, if he ended up on the warriors i wonder how everyone would feel :smoking:

ewing
04-04-2018, 12:29 AM
Everyone loves kawhi, if he ended up on the warriors i wonder how everyone would feel :smoking:

We’ve always hated you nasty


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nastynice
04-04-2018, 01:04 AM
We’ve always hated you nasty


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Perfect. It’s the psd version of the nba. I must be mvp!

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 01:21 AM
Celtics would trade Horford, Danny Ainge, Brad Stevens, and Tom Brady for Kawhi.. the hell you talkin about they wouldn't trade Horford for kawhi straight up? they wouldn't even think of that because it's such a lopsided trade.

More-Than-Most
04-04-2018, 01:43 AM
I dont want him... Not a fan of what the dude is currently doing and i rather never part with embiid/fultz/simmons/saric... Saric looks special as well and he would be probably a center piece and id rather not do it...

Something like Saric/Kork/Tlc and a first would probably get it done but pass.

More-Than-Most
04-04-2018, 01:45 AM
Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, Ivica Zubac, 2019 1st rounder

what have you done with greatness?????? this is legit a good deal lololol

Bostonjorge
04-04-2018, 02:32 AM
For a untouchable player like Leonard you have to give back untouchable players.

Boston could offer Brown to take Leonard’s role as the teams main defender and he can lead the new look Spurs. The sweetener will be Tatum. He’s proven to be a top scorer and plays elite off the ball. That’s 2 max players. You throw in Rozier to make it work and Spurs front office look like Bandits with that return.

Leonard turns Boston into the scariest team with Irving, Hayward and Horford. They re sign Smart and keep all their picks.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 02:38 AM
Slow down with Brown being untouchable. He's a good player but he isn't anything we haven't seen before. He consistently gets into foul trouble, is putting up rather pedestrian numbers for a player getting that much hype, and he's so far looked as just a tough kid who doesn't shy away from the stage. The best individual the Celtics have is Brad Stevens. He makes anything work it seems. But we've seen players with better production not amount to anything close to their hype suggests. Tatum is the real deal here. He fits right in with the Spurs and Pop can turn him into a very great piece for the next decade. But if I am the Spurs, I don't go rebuild. I am going straight to the Pelicans and offering them Kawhi for AD. This would work if AD starts crying soon. Jaylen+Tatum are rebuilding pieces. Pop doesn't have many years left. Gotta give the guy some players to still keep the machine running.

KingPosey
04-04-2018, 02:54 AM
Duh. Of course teams want him.

Alayla
04-04-2018, 04:44 AM
I dont want him... Not a fan of what the dude is currently doing and i rather never part with embiid/fultz/simmons/saric... Saric looks special as well and he would be probably a center piece and id rather not do it...

Something like Saric/Kork/Tlc and a first would probably get it done but pass.

?

Leftcoast_yg
04-04-2018, 08:20 AM
Sixers sending the one of LAL pick/Sac pick that doesn’t convey, Our own 2018 pick, Fultz, Dario/RoCo (pick one), Furkan Korkmaz.

All Pop-ish players.

If your post was on paper it would be wiped with ish all over it.

warfelg
04-04-2018, 08:28 AM
If your post was on paper it would be wiped with ish all over it.

Quality post there champ. How about putting a little work into trying to explain why.

IndyRealist
04-04-2018, 08:35 AM
Slow down with Brown being untouchable. He's a good player but he isn't anything we haven't seen before. He consistently gets into foul trouble, is putting up rather pedestrian numbers for a player getting that much hype, and he's so far looked as just a tough kid who doesn't shy away from the stage. The best individual the Celtics have is Brad Stevens. He makes anything work it seems. But we've seen players with better production not amount to anything close to their hype suggests. Tatum is the real deal here. He fits right in with the Spurs and Pop can turn him into a very great piece for the next decade. But if I am the Spurs, I don't go rebuild. I am going straight to the Pelicans and offering them Kawhi for AD. This would work if AD starts crying soon. Jaylen+Tatum are rebuilding pieces. Pop doesn't have many years left. Gotta give the guy some players to still keep the machine running.

They're essentially stuck with Aldridge. Trading their best player for a better version of LaMarcus makes him redundant on massive salary. I think they trade for a wing.

europagnpilgrim
04-04-2018, 08:37 AM
I dont want him... Not a fan of what the dude is currently doing and i rather never part with embiid/fultz/simmons/saric... Saric looks special as well and he would be probably a center piece and id rather not do it...

Something like Saric/Kork/Tlc and a first would probably get it done but pass.

You would go down as one of the most incompetent GM's ever, Jim Buss - ish or even better(worse) Billy King - ish

I would trade Fultz and Saric for Leonard right now and form one of the best big 3's in the league and the best youngest big 3 talent wise

not a fan of what? him not wanting to sacrifice someone? this has about nothing to do with his façade season long injury but something behind the scenes In a more sinister hidden fashion

They are telling him get me a family member or sit down this season as a punishment and we can just use this fake injury where all parties involved are clueless about it if you let the media tell it and since Leonard doesn't speak much at all its the perfect cover up to what really is going on

it happens all the time, from taj Gibson to ben simmons, they all have gone through it, its documented low key

once people grasp the concept of corporate Hollywood entertainment contracts then they will finally grasp what the meaning/phrase of signing a deal with the devil is about

WaDe03
04-04-2018, 09:10 AM
People saying they wouldn't trade their role players for Kawhi lol!

Chronz
04-04-2018, 11:36 AM
In what world is Kyrie not a superstar? He's elite on both ends of the floor. Butler and George are both Top 15 players and this year you could easily argue that Butler is in the top 10.
An objective one. He had a good start defensively but it's tapered off as the season progressed. Now that he's had injury issues this year, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned back into the **** defender he's always been. And he's almost complete offensively but he lacks vision the necessary intangibles to fit my star definition. Maybe we have different standards

Bostonjorge
04-04-2018, 04:52 PM
Brown and Tatum are more then rebuilding pieces. With Pop they are win now pieces. I see Brown and Tatum winning a playoff series with Irving, Hayward and Smart all being out. Horford will anchor the team but it will be Brown leading the way. Brown will get all the key matchups in defense to. Two way players are can fit anywhere.

After the playoffs we will se if Brown took that borderline superstar step.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 05:28 PM
Brown and Tatum are more then rebuilding pieces. With Pop they are win now pieces. I see Brown and Tatum winning a playoff series with Irving, Hayward and Smart all being out. Horford will anchor the team but it will be Brown leading the way. Brown will get all the key matchups in defense to. Two way players are can fit anywhere.

After the playoffs we will se if Brown took that borderline superstar step.

This is funny...

ewing
04-04-2018, 05:31 PM
An objective one. He had a good start defensively but it's tapered off as the season progressed. Now that he's had injury issues this year, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned back into the **** defender he's always been. And he's almost complete offensively but he lacks vision the necessary intangibles to fit my star definition. Maybe we have different standards

Maybe you are wrong


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JasonJohnHorn
04-04-2018, 09:54 PM
Brown and Tatum are more then rebuilding pieces. With Pop they are win now pieces. I see Brown and Tatum winning a playoff series with Irving, Hayward and Smart all being out. Horford will anchor the team but it will be Brown leading the way. Brown will get all the key matchups in defense to. Two way players are can fit anywhere.

After the playoffs we will se if Brown took that borderline superstar step.

Brown and Tatum are VERY good players.

I feel like those two would be more untouchable than Hayward. They are young, and healthy, and on the cusp of greatness.

Kyrie is in bloom now, but he won't be for long. Players like him. He reminds me in many respects of guys like Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, and to a certan extent Marbury in that he relies heavily on his quickness and ball handing (his game is unique compare to each of them obviously). But these guys who rely so much on quickness fade fast, often at or before 30.

Brown and Tatum, these guys are build for the long haul. Their style of play s suited to good systems and coaching.


Kyrie also has health concerns. I mean... is anybody surpirsed that he's injured at the end of the season?

Brown Tatum and perhaps Rozier are the pieces I'd be most likely to hang onto outside of Kyrie.

Hell... if the Spurs offers Leonard for Kyrie straight up, I'd take that.


But yeah... Brown and Tatum... those guys will be amazing.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 11:26 PM
Brown and Tatum are VERY good players.

I feel like those two would be more untouchable than Hayward. They are young, and healthy, and on the cusp of greatness.

Kyrie is in bloom now, but he won't be for long. Players like him. He reminds me in many respects of guys like Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, and to a certan extent Marbury in that he relies heavily on his quickness and ball handing (his game is unique compare to each of them obviously). But these guys who rely so much on quickness fade fast, often at or before 30.

Brown and Tatum, these guys are build for the long haul. Their style of play s suited to good systems and coaching.


Kyrie also has health concerns. I mean... is anybody surpirsed that he's injured at the end of the season?

Brown Tatum and perhaps Rozier are the pieces I'd be most likely to hang onto outside of Kyrie.

Hell... if the Spurs offers Leonard for Kyrie straight up, I'd take that.


But yeah... Brown and Tatum... those guys will be amazing.

A lot of people don't know this because Pop is good looking for his age but he's almost 70.. he doesn't have time getting rookies accustomed to his system. If he wants to win now, Tatum+Brown won't be worth the trade.

lakers squad
04-05-2018, 07:59 AM
Lakers could resign Randle, and then trade Randle and Kuz or BI for Leonard and a pick!

PAOboston
04-05-2018, 08:22 AM
I saw a lot of Boston proposals in this thread but I think it's highly unlikely Boston goes after Leonard for multiple reasons. If they end up going after another star, it's more likely to be AD as the one to replace Horford than it is to replace Hayward.

I would think that Kyrie/Hayward are untouchable. I think they would consider one of Brown and Tatum but their issue is matching contracts because they do not have any sort of mid level type deals to help match salary in a deal for a Khawi type contract. They won't give up both as both project to be at least all star level players.

Rozier is probably a prime candidate to get traded since he's blown up this year and basically priced himself out of Boston.

Boston at this point can bide their time and not force anything. With Hayward back next season, they are likely a 60 win team with Brown and Tatum likely improving. They can wait and make a great trade when an opportunity presents itself.

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warfelg
04-05-2018, 08:41 AM
I saw a lot of Boston proposals in this thread but I think it's highly unlikely Boston goes after Leonard for multiple reasons. If they end up going after another star, it's more likely to be AD as the one to replace Horford than it is to replace Hayward.

I would think that Kyrie/Hayward are untouchable. I think they would consider one of Brown and Tatum but their issue is matching contracts because they do not have any sort of mid level type deals to help match salary in a deal for a Khawi type contract. They won't give up both as both project to be at least all star level players.

Rozier is probably a prime candidate to get traded since he's blown up this year and basically priced himself out of Boston.

Boston at this point can bide their time and not force anything. With Hayward back next season, they are likely a 60 win team with Brown and Tatum likely improving. They can wait and make a great trade when an opportunity presents itself.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

I think this is the best course of action considering they've yet to see significant amounts of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford as their key players.

If I were you guys I would find a way to retain Smart. Maybe move on from Morris (I'm not sure how he's been for you guys TBH). Bring back one of Baynes/Monroe. One of them not both.

Kyrie - Rosier
Brown - Smart
Hayward - FA
Tatum - Yobu/Ojele
Horford - Monroe/Baynes

If you want some more bench firepower you start one of Yobu/Semi and bring Tatum off the bench as a 3/4. Or retain Morris, and start him. Reason I went with trade Morris out is so you can keep smart and offset that cost some. I think the RoCo contract is a good cap for Ainge to use for Smart. About $13-14 mil per.

But I'm going to be 100& honest here:
I wouldn't be 100% sure Kyrie get's retained past this contract. I know that sounds very hot take. But he's injury prone with knee issues, who's defense has declined through the season, who will be 27, opting out and looking for the max. I'm not sure Ainge (I wouldn't in his case) would give out a max contract in Kyrie's case.

JasonJohnHorn
04-05-2018, 09:03 AM
I saw a lot of Boston proposals in this thread but I think it's highly unlikely Boston goes after Leonard for multiple reasons. If they end up going after another star, it's more likely to be AD as the one to replace Horford than it is to replace Hayward.

I would think that Kyrie/Hayward are untouchable. I think they would consider one of Brown and Tatum but their issue is matching contracts because they do not have any sort of mid level type deals to help match salary in a deal for a Khawi type contract. They won't give up both as both project to be at least all star level players.

Rozier is probably a prime candidate to get traded since he's blown up this year and basically priced himself out of Boston.

Boston at this point can bide their time and not force anything. With Hayward back next season, they are likely a 60 win team with Brown and Tatum likely improving. They can wait and make a great trade when an opportunity presents itself.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

I mean... this is Ainge we're talking about... why not go for both?

Horford+Tatum+first for AD; Hayward+Rozierfor Leonard

;-)

Heediot
04-05-2018, 09:13 AM
Kyrie is in bloom now, but he won't be for long. Players like him. He reminds me in many respects of guys like Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, and to a certan extent Marbury in that he relies heavily on his quickness and ball handing (his game is unique compare to each of them obviously). But these guys who rely so much on quickness fade fast, often at or before 30.


I think he relies more on his craftiness and handles then his speed. I think offensively his game could age well. Just my opinion. He's not as reliant on speed as say a Rose, Westbrook, Wall types. Those guys are faster and more athletic combine demon types, whereas he is more skilled with his handles and shooting and breaking down guys face up vs. going to the hole (as the others are more reliant on). Kyrie does use his speed as a tool too so I can't take that away from his game.

Vinylman
04-05-2018, 09:40 AM
Don't see the Spurs trading Kawhi unless he asked to be traded.

But let's entertain the idea.

My Cavs have nothing to give him. Spurs would get a MASSIVE haul in return and I don't see it happening from Cleveland. The best we could offer would be some combination of Hood, Osman, Zizic, Nets 1st (if it lands top 4 that would be good), and a future Cavs 1st or two. That would be some young, promising assets to offer. And we'd have to take back a bad contract as well to help persuade the Spurs but they don't have any bad contracts they want to get out of, unless they want to move on from Gasol.

Even then, Boston (and other teams) could simply outbid us.

Not if he limits the market by saying he will only re-sign with certain teams

carlessyen
04-05-2018, 09:40 AM
Almost pissed myself laughing when I read Kyrie was a good defender, only person might be worse is the guy they traded him for IT.

Vinylman
04-05-2018, 09:41 AM
My word some of these Boston trade proposals are out of this world. Have we all suffered from memory loss? Superstars never get traded for proper value... Once teams know a player wants out there's a major value hit. Add in that Kawhi is mentally weak and sitting out for a supermax and his value takes another hit.

Boston would send something like this for Kawhi. Rozier + Smart (signs a 1 year 20 million dollar deal to match salary) + maaaaybe a draft pick.

Absolutely 0.0% chance they trade Irving, Horford, or Hayward.

Less than 2.0% chance they trade Tatum or Brown in a Kawhi deal.

Look at the past superstars traded, they're traded for peanuts on the dollar. Irving, Butler, PG13, etc.

omg... please take this guys posting privileges away

Vinylman
04-05-2018, 09:54 AM
Why would Boston create a massive hole on their team while not filling a need? So Brown is coming off the bench now and we don't have a single respectable center. Lovely.

I was looking at the last 3 finals match ups and still can't find a respectable center in those series

seriously... you must just be trolling people

warfelg
04-05-2018, 10:22 AM
I was looking at the last 3 finals match ups and still can't find a respectable center in those series

seriously... you must just be trolling people

1 - Bogut

2 - The last 3 finals were the same two teams, and twice it was almost the exact same teams. Try harder if you want to make that claim.

hugepatsfan
04-05-2018, 12:22 PM
I still think it's a move that you gotta go for if you're BOS. I love Tatum and think he's gonna be great but realistically will he ever be more than Kawhi? Chances are incredibly stacked against that. If you can get Kawhi I think you need to.

I think that they could put together a great offer without including Brown. Tatum/Rozier/2019 SAC 1st/Yabusele/Semi Ojeleye/Abdel Nader/Another future BOS 1st I think is a strong offer. It works salary wise.

Re-sign Smart with bird rights, Larkin with bi-annual exception and Baynes with the MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Brown / Smart
Hayward / Morris
Leonard / Theis
Horford / Baynes

That's a loaded team.

Vinylman
04-05-2018, 12:34 PM
1 - Bogut

2 - The last 3 finals were the same two teams, and twice it was almost the exact same teams. Try harder if you want to make that claim.

That's the point... there is no need for a high quality center... anyone can be used if you have the right wings

Bogut played 75 minutes in the first finals and 60 minutes in the second finals...

worrying about who is playing center is like worrying about who is handing out water bottles

Leftcoast_yg
04-05-2018, 01:00 PM
:laugh2: Kyrie is a good defender?!
That man can't stay in front of a light pole

warfelg
04-05-2018, 01:00 PM
That's the point... there is no need for a high quality center... anyone can be used if you have the right wings

Bogut played 75 minutes in the first finals and 60 minutes in the second finals...

worrying about who is playing center is like worrying about who is handing out water bottles

Also helps when there's a top 3 all time player or 2 of the best 3 pt shooters on one team.

4 years ago: Duncan V Bosh
5 years ago: Duncan V Bosh
6 years ago: Adams/Kanter/Nazr V Bosh
7 years ago: Tyson Chandler
8 years ago: Perkins/Garnett V Bynum/Gasol

Going back only 3 years was very arbitrary to making it sound like you don't need a center to win.

Oh and BTW:
2016 finals Bogut suffered a knee injury in game 5. He was playing 15 MPG before that.
2015 finals Bogut only appeared in 4 games. 75 minutes in 4 games is 19 MPG.

Leftcoast_yg
04-05-2018, 01:03 PM
I dont want him... Not a fan of what the dude is currently doing and i rather never part with embiid/fultz/simmons/saric... Saric looks special as well and he would be probably a center piece and id rather not do it...

Something like Saric/Kork/Tlc and a first would probably get it done but pass.

Dude it would take all those bums to get kawhi. You guys forget your talking about trading for a Finals Mvp Rare 2 way Superstar.

Vinylman
04-05-2018, 01:09 PM
Also helps when there's a top 3 all time player or 2 of the best 3 pt shooters on one team.

4 years ago: Duncan V Bosh
5 years ago: Duncan V Bosh
6 years ago: Adams/Kanter/Nazr V Bosh
7 years ago: Tyson Chandler
8 years ago: Perkins/Garnett V Bynum/Gasol

Going back only 3 years was very arbitrary to making it sound like you don't need a center to win.

Oh and BTW:
2016 finals Bogut suffered a knee injury in game 5. He was playing 15 MPG before that.
2015 finals Bogut only appeared in 4 games. 75 minutes in 4 games is 19 MPG.

what? lololololol

warfelg
04-05-2018, 01:26 PM
I actually even forgot in that Thunder/Heat finals that the Thunder traded out some of those guys and had Kendrick Perkins playing 23 minutes per game.

So it even strengthened the side of centers matter. Last years finals the Warriors still played centers for about 30 MPG, filling in a whole 16 MPG with no real big out there.

The Cavs obviously went opposite with their 3 tallest guys being Thompson, Frye, Love. Then again they had the luxury of having the best player in the world.

Ty Fast
04-05-2018, 01:33 PM
Heat have Whiteside and some young players. Maybe Pat could pull something off.

85BearsDefense
04-05-2018, 02:19 PM
omg... please take this guys posting privileges away

For speaking the truth? LOL. Boston isn't trading Heyward, Horford or Irving. No chance they trade Tatum. Kawhi's value is at all time lows. So many question marks around him. Superstars never bring back what they're worth. Look it up.

europagnpilgrim
04-05-2018, 03:07 PM
Brown and Tatum are VERY good players.

I feel like those two would be more untouchable than Hayward. They are young, and healthy, and on the cusp of greatness.

Kyrie is in bloom now, but he won't be for long. Players like him. He reminds me in many respects of guys like Isiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Iverson, and to a certan extent Marbury in that he relies heavily on his quickness and ball handing (his game is unique compare to each of them obviously). But these guys who rely so much on quickness fade fast, often at or before 30.

Brown and Tatum, these guys are build for the long haul. Their style of play s suited to good systems and coaching.


Kyrie also has health concerns. I mean... is anybody surpirsed that he's injured at the end of the season?

Brown Tatum and perhaps Rozier are the pieces I'd be most likely to hang onto outside of Kyrie.

Hell... if the Spurs offers Leonard for Kyrie straight up, I'd take that.


But yeah... Brown and Tatum... those guys will be amazing.

Brown and Tatum are on the cusp of greatness? both have shown to be serviceable and giving the massive playing time more for Brown they should at least have put together a few 40pt games given the minutes they play and being super young if they were on the cusp of greatness, I sware the way you guys rate players is something else, I have watched enough Boston games to know that it is super boring if Irving is not on the floor showcasing his gift so if those guys were on the cusp of greatness it would stick out like a sore thumb which it does not, flashes here in there but no flash in the pan player is ever regarded as ''great'' or as I say dominant.

are they capable of one day going off for multiple 40pt games? I would like to think so since they play a lot in early years

when you say on cusp of greatness I think of players like Shaq(many 20+pts 20rebound rookie games or first 2-3 season total) and others of that ilk who come into the league and put it on full notice, Brown next year will be the same as he has shown but the speed of the game will be more accustomed to fit what he does best, which is get shots up and play sound defense, he will never be in Leonard category, he is basically a athletic version of Hayward, and probably not as good of a natural pure shooter but Hayward is not the 1 on 1 defender that Brown is, with that being said I would keep Tatum and package Brown since you would be getting a better 2 way version, and the reason its way better because right now if he were playing he would be compared to Lebron / KD / Harden etc. the top tier players of the game where as Brown can only hope to be mentioned as a guy who made a couple all stars, Leonard was also a top 3 mvp candidate just last season, if Boston rolls out a Leonard/Hayward/Irving all healthy lineup that strikes way more fear in opponents than if Brown was there

Brown nor Tatum has shown me that AI rookie moment at the Garden, 35pts and making defenders literally spin in circles and fouling almost the entire backcourt out the game, now that's on the cusp of being dominant(great), or breaking Wilts 40pt rookie game record, that's what I call on the cusp of 'greatness'

Leftcoast_yg
04-05-2018, 03:25 PM
If you're LAL you trade: Randle with Ingram.

If you're Boston: You trade Tatum AND Brown.

Kawhi is better than any of those teams players including Kyrie.

85BearsDefense
04-05-2018, 03:36 PM
If you're LAL you trade: Randle with Ingram.

If you're Boston: You trade Tatum AND Brown.

Kawhi is better than any of those teams players including Kyrie.

Boston trading Tatum and Brown. LMAO insert a million crying faces.

Chronz
04-05-2018, 03:41 PM
Maybe you are wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope turns out he's done for the season. He's definitely never trying defensively ever again.

ewing
04-05-2018, 04:11 PM
Nope turns out he's done for the season. He's definitely never trying defensively ever again.

What are you on?

More-Than-Most
04-05-2018, 09:58 PM
Dude it would take all those bums to get kawhi. You guys forget your talking about trading for a Finals Mvp Rare 2 way Superstar.

or a player currently with injury question marks who is at odds with his team and or refuses to play because he is worried about his next 200 million dollar contract while likely getting a 200 million dollar contract? You cant just look at the players involved but the situation of said team and the situation of said trading team... KL is a top 5 player in the world but what it takes to get him would kill any team without another top 5 player in the world... Id rather stick with Embiid/Ben/Saric/Fultz... I wouldnt trade Ben for KL straight up if I am being honest... KL is the better player no doubt but Ben is cost controlled for a while and has top player in the world potential... Getting KL for ben or Joel wouldnt be worth it and again id rather stick with our core and just sign a top free agent in the off season.

More-Than-Most
04-05-2018, 10:00 PM
Boston trading Tatum and Brown. LMAO insert a million crying faces.

it would likely cost tatum and brown and another pick... if i am the celtics id pass.

More-Than-Most
04-05-2018, 10:03 PM
If you're LAL you trade: Randle with Ingram.

If you're Boston: You trade Tatum AND Brown.

Kawhi is better than any of those teams players including Kyrie.

randle and ingram wouldnt even get the spurs on the phone... Saric and the first you guys are giving us this year has more value because randle is about to get top dollar.

85BearsDefense
04-05-2018, 11:03 PM
it would likely cost tatum and brown and another pick... if i am the celtics id pass.

There's a zero percent chance it costs anything close to that, like I've said the entire time. Superstars never fetch close to what they're worth for a variety of reasons.

Silent
04-06-2018, 03:08 AM
Best offer: Victor Oladipo, Cory Joseph, and Myles Turner for Leonard and Pau. No idea if salaries work.

I wouldn't do it though. If Leonard isn't happy in San Antonio he's going to hate Indianapolis. Oladipo is fine in Indy but he's the only piece San Antonio would really want.

really u would give up all that jesus christ

GREATNESS ONE
04-06-2018, 03:16 AM
randle and ingram wouldnt even get the spurs on the phone... Saric and the first you guys are giving us this year has more value because randle is about to get top dollar.

Ingram 100% would be on the phone, stop lol


I do agree with your previous posts as a Sixer, cannot give up Simmons/Embiid.

I do think Fultz or Saric would be available + fillers. Adding one of the best 2aay players in the game to that young nucleus would make you title contenders for the next 5 (healthy) easy.

Vinylman
04-06-2018, 11:02 AM
For speaking the truth? LOL. Boston isn't trading Heyward, Horford or Irving. No chance they trade Tatum. Kawhi's value is at all time lows. So many question marks around him. Superstars never bring back what they're worth. Look it up.

LOLOLOLOLOL

all the above jibberish isn't what my post was about... it was about your asinine proposal of what the Celts would give up.

I see you went to the PSD school of deflection

A- for your efforts

GREATNESS ONE
04-06-2018, 11:12 AM
Professor Vinylman handing out grades :laugh2:

Wrigheyes4MVP
04-06-2018, 12:06 PM
The only reason the Butler trade doesn't look lopsided is because the Bulls hit a homerun with their draft pick.

IndyRealist
04-06-2018, 12:33 PM
really u would give up all that jesus christ

Did you not read where I said I wouldn't make the trade?

Firefistus
04-06-2018, 12:42 PM
There's a zero percent chance it costs anything close to that, like I've said the entire time. Superstars never fetch close to what they're worth for a variety of reasons.

Really? Melo? Deron Williams? How about all those 1st's given to the Celtics for Garnet and Paul? Considering Leonard is LITERALLY the best defensive SF in the league and was close to MVP the last few years, I would say he's worth quite a bit. Just because you don't want to give up 2 youngsters doesn't mean he isn't worth it.

I don't think the Celtics have a prayer of grabbing Leonard because both the Spurs and the Celtics are too stingy with their assets. If the Spurs want to deal him they'll find a great deal, but the Ainge will never agree to a deal that the Spurs would be willing to take, and vise verse.

Leftcoast_yg
04-06-2018, 12:43 PM
randle and ingram wouldnt even get the spurs on the phone... Saric and the first you guys are giving us this year has more value because randle is about to get top dollar.

Lol what's a saric ??

Leftcoast_yg
04-06-2018, 12:46 PM
randle and ingram wouldnt even get the spurs on the phone... Saric and the first you guys are giving us this year has more value because randle is about to get top dollar.

Spurs fans if you had to pick a deal what deal sounds better? Randle and Ingram or a saric and a mid 1 st pick ?

Chronz
04-06-2018, 01:35 PM
I still think it's a move that you gotta go for if you're BOS. I love Tatum and think he's gonna be great but realistically will he ever be more than Kawhi? Chances are incredibly stacked against that. If you can get Kawhi I think you need to.

I think that they could put together a great offer without including Brown. Tatum/Rozier/2019 SAC 1st/Yabusele/Semi Ojeleye/Abdel Nader/Another future BOS 1st I think is a strong offer. It works salary wise.

Re-sign Smart with bird rights, Larkin with bi-annual exception and Baynes with the MLE.

Kyrie / Larkin
Brown / Smart
Hayward / Morris
Leonard / Theis
Horford / Baynes

That's a loaded team.

Reminds me of the bulls not parting with deng for Kobe, kg, pau etc.

Chronz
04-06-2018, 01:35 PM
Spurs fans if you had to pick a deal what deal sounds better? Randle and Ingram or a saric and a mid 1 st pick ?

Ingram

85BearsDefense
04-06-2018, 01:44 PM
LOLOLOLOLOL

all the above jibberish isn't what my post was about... it was about your asinine proposal of what the Celts would give up.

I see you went to the PSD school of deflection

A- for your efforts

They're not going to offer nearly what you think they will. Good try, good effort. You'll see.

Chronz
04-06-2018, 01:50 PM
If the celtics flameout in r1. I think they make the move

hugepatsfan
04-06-2018, 02:35 PM
If the celtics flameout in r1. I think they make the move

I don't think how they perform in the playoffs without their top 2 players will affect whether they do or don't do anything.

IndyRealist
04-06-2018, 03:03 PM
They're not going to offer nearly what you think they will. Good try, good effort. You'll see.

I don't think we will see, because either Kawhi won't be traded or someone's going to offer up a 1a player and the Spurs will look to extend LaMarcus' window. No matter how good you think Tatum and Brown are, they are not ready to carry a contender.

Pierzynski4Prez
04-06-2018, 03:48 PM
Tatum or Brown will 100% have to be included. If they don't, other teams will easily be able to beat that offer (assuming it also doesn't involve Kyrie or Hayward).

Being a Bulls fan, I wouldn't mad to see them offer LaVine, Portis, and either the Pels pick or our own to get it done, granted Kawhi was signing long term with us.

PAOboston
04-06-2018, 04:31 PM
I think this is the best course of action considering they've yet to see significant amounts of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford as their key players.

If I were you guys I would find a way to retain Smart. Maybe move on from Morris (I'm not sure how he's been for you guys TBH). Bring back one of Baynes/Monroe. One of them not both.

Kyrie - Rosier
Brown - Smart
Hayward - FA
Tatum - Yobu/Ojele
Horford - Monroe/Baynes

If you want some more bench firepower you start one of Yobu/Semi and bring Tatum off the bench as a 3/4. Or retain Morris, and start him. Reason I went with trade Morris out is so you can keep smart and offset that cost some. I think the RoCo contract is a good cap for Ainge to use for Smart. About $13-14 mil per.

But I'm going to be 100& honest here:
I wouldn't be 100% sure Kyrie get's retained past this contract. I know that sounds very hot take. But he's injury prone with knee issues, who's defense has declined through the season, who will be 27, opting out and looking for the max. I'm not sure Ainge (I wouldn't in his case) would give out a max contract in Kyrie's case.Honestly, I think Smart bet on himself this year to get a big RFA deal and it blew up in his face. He had a massive shooting slump, hurt his hand punching a mirror, and then hurt his thumb (albeit on a 100% balls to the wall effort play that basically defines him). I'm honestly not sure he gets much more than $10 mil per annually and since there isn't a ton of cap space out there this summer, I'm not sure many teams will be offering a ton for him. There's a legit chance he could play for RFA tender.

Morris is what he is but he's been pretty awesome the past month or so. Ainge won that trade as well by trading Bradley. And considering he only make like $6 mil next year, he's probably a good candidate to stay as 6th man type of guy off the bench.

I agree about Baynes/Morris. I think the C's will use their full MLE to retain Monroe who's been pretty great off the bench for the Cs.

I think they'll make moves to improve certain areas but they legit have 6 rookies on the roster this year which they have spent developing. Getting Hayward back basically the equivalent of a new signing. They are adding a top 20-25ish type player to the fold which is huge. Other than that, I think they pretty much run back the same team, expect improvement from the young guys, and make some minor tweaks. Not expecting any fireworks.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

LA4life24/8
04-06-2018, 04:45 PM
I'd hate to see em go but BI 100% gets spurs on the phone. Just like tatum gets emon the phone
It's just a matter of who the spurs would rather have and which team would sweeten the pot more.

Vinylman
04-06-2018, 05:39 PM
They're not going to offer nearly what you think they will. Good try, good effort. You'll see.

sigh... it doesn't matter what I think they would offer...

your proposal back in the beginning was beyond ridiculous

FlashBolt
04-06-2018, 05:42 PM
If I'm the Lakers and Kawhi is already likely leaving the Spurs, I let him go. You don't trade away Ingram for a rental. Does Kawhi like the spotlight? The constant media? That would definitely be a huge decision for him, right? Brandon Ingram has massive potential. You would need Kawhi's assurance he would stay and in today's time, it's impossible to get confirmation.

IndyRealist
04-06-2018, 05:45 PM
sigh... it doesn't matter what I think they would offer...

your proposal back in the beginning was beyond ridiculous

Fans always overrate their own assets. Just look at the post above yours.

More-Than-Most
04-06-2018, 07:22 PM
Ingram 100% would be on the phone, stop lol


I do agree with your previous posts as a Sixer, cannot give up Simmons/Embiid.

I do think Fultz or Saric would be available + fillers. Adding one of the best 2aay players in the game to that young nucleus would make you title contenders for the next 5 (healthy) easy.

i wouldnt give up BI/Ball or Kuzma if I am being honest unless I got PG13 first. If I could trade BI and Kuzma for KL after I got PG or Cousins then I would... I hate ball but I wouldnt trade ball if i could get KL because ball could do more with KL OR cousins then BI and Kuz could.

europagnpilgrim
04-06-2018, 07:22 PM
If he leaves the Spurs. Damn, his uncle must have some real influence on him. How do you bail on a world class organization that has the track record, coaching and management that they currently do?


Its a world class org. until stories start to leak and winning usually cures all, including burying stories of tension/riff etc., its like they are the Patriots of the nba(hopefully minus all the cheating allegations unless some surface later then they have benefit of doubt) and we all see the media leaks, rather true or false something leaked and usually where there are multiple close sourced links it has a ounce or 10 of weight to it, reminds me of the Kobe-Shaq era where winning cured most but it was still chinks in the armor

plus why not go to another world class org. and be yourself more freely, he would flourish with any other Texas team and even more with any of those NY teams or Miami or any on those Cali teams outside Kings, its many more good coaches out there besides Pops, they might not have the hardware but Pop one less title since 2008 than Spo does and though Spo is one of the best underrated in the game nobody is screaming he is a top 5 coach ever but he has more rings than Pops in the past decade and Pops is a top 5 coach ever by most media/fanatics global and we all know the total body of work is Pops easily but the point is Leonard could easily find greener pastures elsewhere to do and be him, Pops and that first class org. hates his braids and his new found lowkey commercial stardom, though they should be use to it given Parker was dating a so called Hollywood actress in Longoria and plus Duncan got outed by his wife for dating a man so that was some unexpected headlines to say the least

More than likely Leonard stays and tests out the market because I don't see him sitting out another season unless something funny is really going on with this mystery healing process

Leonard for his own legacy should either go to NY or LA or another texas team in that order, Miami could push Texas for that 3rd slot though easily

85BearsDefense
04-06-2018, 07:34 PM
sigh... it doesn't matter what I think they would offer...

your proposal back in the beginning was beyond ridiculous

This guy, lmao. Doesn't understand how a negotiation works. Is there a PSD minors for this guy?

85BearsDefense
04-06-2018, 07:35 PM
Fans always overrate their own assets. Just look at the post above yours.

Funny thing is, I'm not a fan of either team. I'm a Bulls fan. I just understand the landscape of trading superstars, you never get back proper value. Boston won't give up what you think they will.

GREATNESS ONE
04-06-2018, 08:43 PM
i wouldnt give up BI/Ball or Kuzma if I am being honest unless I got PG13 first. If I could trade BI and Kuzma for KL after I got PG or Cousins then I would... I hate ball but I wouldnt trade ball if i could get KL because ball could do more with KL OR cousins then BI and Kuz could.

Yea I don’t want to give up the youth movement unless we got assurance from PG/Bron.

GREATNESS ONE
04-06-2018, 08:44 PM
If I'm the Lakers and Kawhi is already likely leaving the Spurs, I let him go. You don't trade away Ingram for a rental. Does Kawhi like the spotlight? The constant media? That would definitely be a huge decision for him, right? Brandon Ingram has massive potential. You would need Kawhi's assurance he would stay and in today's time, it's impossible to get confirmation.

I mean, back channels? I guess, Kawhi has leaked the possibility of coming home to SoCal and playing for the LAL.

Vinylman
04-07-2018, 01:09 PM
If I'm the Lakers and Kawhi is already likely leaving the Spurs, I let him go. You don't trade away Ingram for a rental. Does Kawhi like the spotlight? The constant media? That would definitely be a huge decision for him, right? Brandon Ingram has massive potential. You would need Kawhi's assurance he would stay and in today's time, it's impossible to get confirmation.

yeah... working out an extension after agree to a trade is pretty difficult... I mean the rockets and Harden didn't do that ....

sigh

Vinylman
04-07-2018, 01:11 PM
This guy, lmao. Doesn't understand how a negotiation works. Is there a PSD minors for this guy?

LMFAO

your initial post was trashed by every respondent yet I have to go to the minor leagues

try and stay focused... my comments and everything you have responded to subsequently was your original post...

Ishkabibble
04-10-2018, 01:43 PM
I don't think how they perform in the playoffs without their top 2 players will affect whether they do or don't do anything.

Me either. Boston pulls the trigger on a Kawhi trade if they lose in round 1 of the playoffs?
Yeah, that knee-jerk reaction makes a ton of sense.
People seem to be losing sight of the money involved here. Jaylen Brown is under contract cheap for two more years. And 3 more years for Tatum, until each gets that balloon 5th season. In a capped league, that...uh...kinda matters. And BTW, both will be stud players very soon.
I'd also need to know a helluva lot more about what's going on with Leonard, both physically and mentally. At this point he seems to be deliberately screwing over the Spurs.

LA4life24/8
04-11-2018, 11:57 AM
Fans always overrate their own assets. Just look at the post above yours.

Are you jusy salty because LA wouldn't give up BI to pg13? (Granted now the trade doesn't look as bad as it did at the time) but the kings wanted ingram for cousins. Indy wanted ingram for pg13. I 100% guarantee that the spurs want ingram for KL if it came to that. It 100% gets them on the phone. If you don't think that well thats your wrong opinion.

FlashBolt
04-11-2018, 12:25 PM
yeah... working out an extension after agree to a trade is pretty difficult... I mean the rockets and Harden didn't do that ....

sigh

Harden signed years ago... the league has changed massively since then. I'm not sure if you are aware of not but players want to change teams on the daily. Look at what happened with PG, DeAndre, Melo, etc., These guys have huge egos and simply getting them to commit has been impossible with the amount of flexibility these players now have.

TrueFan420
04-11-2018, 01:21 PM
Me either. Boston pulls the trigger on a Kawhi trade if they lose in round 1 of the playoffs?
Yeah, that knee-jerk reaction makes a ton of sense.
People seem to be losing sight of the money involved here. Jaylen Brown is under contract cheap for two more years. And 3 more years for Tatum, until each gets that balloon 5th season. In a capped league, that...uh...kinda matters. And BTW, both will be stud players very soon.
I'd also need to know a helluva lot more about what's going on with Leonard, both physically and mentally. At this point he seems to be deliberately screwing over the Spurs.

Something else to take into account is if they think this move gets them past the warriors. If they don't or don't think it swings the odds enough they may chose to wait them out and when their young guys hit their primes the warriors will be older and past their primes.

Ishkabibble
04-11-2018, 02:50 PM
Something else to take into account is if they think this move gets them past the warriors. If they don't or don't think it swings the odds enough they may chose to wait them out and when their young guys hit their primes the warriors will be older and past their primes.

Absolutely. If I were Ainge I'd be inclined to hang on to my young guys in the first place. When you think about Hayward returning next season, Marcus Morris, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown all playing the wing, I'd be perfectly content with what I have at SG/SF. Is Kawhi a better SF than any of those guys? Sure. But one thing's for certain; the wing position ain't broke on the Celtics.
If Boston wants to include Brown or Tatum in a trade it'd have to be for a position of need or a position needing an upgrade.

europagnpilgrim
04-12-2018, 08:49 AM
Me either. Boston pulls the trigger on a Kawhi trade if they lose in round 1 of the playoffs?
Yeah, that knee-jerk reaction makes a ton of sense.
People seem to be losing sight of the money involved here. Jaylen Brown is under contract cheap for two more years. And 3 more years for Tatum, until each gets that balloon 5th season. In a capped league, that...uh...kinda matters. And BTW, both will be stud players very soon.
I'd also need to know a helluva lot more about what's going on with Leonard, both physically and mentally. At this point he seems to be deliberately screwing over the Spurs.


This reminds me of the M Gasol talk and other fringe / substitute all stars, Brown / Tatum are going to be serviceable nba guys, with all the injuries if they were studs they would be wrecking the league and being on a cheap contract is just that, cheap

Leonard is a mvp caliber player who is probably available this summer for the right price which Celtics would be wise to trade one of those serviceable cheap contract players for a player who right now if was playing would most likely again finish in top 3(no less than 5th) in mvp voting, Brown / Tatum would be lucky to get a sub in all star nod in their career

if they were studs those guys would be taking turns dropping 30-40pt games or flirting with that nightly, that's stud status, and the reason I say that is because they are getting all those minutes, a stud is like come in as a rookie play 40mpg and put up almost 24ppg and 8apg, that's a ''stud'', or a player who puts up 23ppg and 14rpg rookie year, that's a stud, or a guy who gets 20/6/6 straight out of HS, that's a stud, Amare Stoudemire was a stud out of HS came into league playing grown man position PF(before the abundance of stretch 4's)

those boston young guys are closer to Al Harrington than being a stud, and Harrington was decent but nothing special / stud, that's what Boston players remind me of, they have 1 stud in Irving and 2 solid players in Horford / Hayward and good serviceable players in Smart / Tatum / Brown and the rest of the rat pack bunch who are boring as hell to watch(from my lens) since Irving went out and to a smaller extent Hayward

Brown / Tatum are not must watch/box office and that's a shame seeing all this playing time they are getting early, Brown should be averaging close to 25ppg right now with all the injuries, they will be Wiggins like on a lower level because I feel Wiggins is naturally more talented than both

And yeah I know how 'young' they are, but that didn't stop others who were true studs from entering the league either straight out of high school / 1 yr college and putting the league on notice, that's how you separate the studs from serviceable players, Celtics have plenty of those, you need mvp caliber players and the Celtics would be wise to look at either Leonard / Davis and see about getting a true stud for a façade so called 'stud' that you feel they have in Boston

in 3 years lets re visit this and I guarantee you they will be the same players pretty much, just more seasoned they will be but doing what they do now, jacking up shots and playing sound defense(or at least trying)

you are the one losing sight on a money issue, its only a issue because they want to make it seem like they have morals and financial code, since when does a printing machine worry about money? rather Boston owns the machine or borrows it from U.S. Bureau it still has unlimited access, the Rockets and Clippers have sold their teams for 2Billion dollars, the nba should have a cap number like the nfl / mlb, who also operate with money printing machines as well. unlimited means just that, regardless what a salary cap is, its all monopoly money at the end of the day so why not do like Gilbert and pay the luxury tax, its a 'tax' write off any how, everything is contract / taxes / bills once you truly get a grasp on commerce / economics. the most important aspect in sports outside of health / availability is ''contracts''

let that sink in for a minute, you print / have access to money printer but you are being cheap nitpicking over inferior players contracts over a true max level stud that you can probably get if he gets on the trade market

and lastly if you really knew how money was created then you would know they are all in equal as players until you start talking about 'contract' numbers, then you start getting separated by numbers, but that's not the case at all if you knew the origins of how we are monetized by the minute on a daily basis

Vinylman
04-13-2018, 10:14 AM
Harden signed years ago... the league has changed massively since then. I'm not sure if you are aware of not but players want to change teams on the daily. Look at what happened with PG, DeAndre, Melo, etc., These guys have huge egos and simply getting them to commit has been impossible with the amount of flexibility these players now have.

I destroy your point with an example and you come back with the above garbage...

Sad

Vinylman
04-13-2018, 10:32 AM
Something else to take into account is if they think this move gets them past the warriors. If they don't or don't think it swings the odds enough they may chose to wait them out and when their young guys hit their primes the warriors will be older and past their primes.

How are you going to pay everyone? Horford and Irving have Player Options the same year Brown will need to be extended... and if you think Brown is that good he will be extended the prior fall.

Depending on the price and KL's health Boston should definitely pursue him. Trading a Brown or Tatum and another young player along with a couple of firsts (not nets) is well worth it.

Things change quickly in the NBA

BoSox47
04-13-2018, 11:33 AM
They would have to trade Horford or Hayward to match salaries though wouldn't they?

Celtics could offer Jaylen Brown, Marcus Morris, rozier and ojeleye and those contracts would match up. Obviously Celtics would have to add draft picks.

Celtics have:
Sacramentos 2019 pick
Memphis 2019 pick (top 8 protected, 2020 top 6 protected, 2021 unprotected)
clippers 2019 first round pick (top 14 protected next two seasons, 2nd rounder if not conveyed to that point)
Boston 2018 pick
Boston 2019 pick etc.

mrblisterdundee
04-17-2018, 04:51 PM
Harden signed years ago... the league has changed massively since then. I'm not sure if you are aware of not but players want to change teams on the daily. Look at what happened with PG, DeAndre, Melo, etc., These guys have huge egos and simply getting them to commit has been impossible with the amount of flexibility these players now have.

I wouldn't trade Ingram for Kawhi either, but I also wouldn't be too worried about re-signing him long-term either way. The Lakers have to be near the top of his dream destinations as a free agent, along with those of George, LeBron, etc.
If they do nab him in free agency, the Lakers will have to commit to Ingram as a small-ball four. I think it'll eventually work as he bulks up. Even if they can't get any other big names in free agency, they can always re-sign Thomas to a bigger one-year deal. They'll have a ton of length to mitigate Thomas' defensive deficiencies, a clear alpha and a couple reliable veteran scorers.

WaDe03
04-17-2018, 05:13 PM
As for the Topic, the Clippers and Cavs have been linked to Kawhi in a trade.

GREATNESS ONE
04-17-2018, 05:20 PM
As for the Topic, the Clippers and Cavs have been linked to Kawhi in a trade.

He’s coming to the Lakers.

More-Than-Most
04-17-2018, 06:01 PM
He’s coming to the Lakers.

Man that is a sick lineup... KL/PG13/Lebron James/Westy/Durant.... Those were the guys that seem to be coming or were suppose to come to the lakers... that is instant championship.

GREATNESS ONE
04-17-2018, 10:26 PM
Fultz, Saric, Morris, 1st round pick

Lil Rhody
04-18-2018, 04:54 AM
This reminds me of the M Gasol talk and other fringe / substitute all stars, Brown / Tatum are going to be serviceable nba guys, with all the injuries if they were studs they would be wrecking the league and being on a cheap contract is just that, cheap

Leonard is a mvp caliber player who is probably available this summer for the right price which Celtics would be wise to trade one of those serviceable cheap contract players for a player who right now if was playing would most likely again finish in top 3(no less than 5th) in mvp voting, Brown / Tatum would be lucky to get a sub in all star nod in their career

if they were studs those guys would be taking turns dropping 30-40pt games or flirting with that nightly, that's stud status, and the reason I say that is because they are getting all those minutes, a stud is like come in as a rookie play 40mpg and put up almost 24ppg and 8apg, that's a ''stud'', or a player who puts up 23ppg and 14rpg rookie year, that's a stud, or a guy who gets 20/6/6 straight out of HS, that's a stud, Amare Stoudemire was a stud out of HS came into league playing grown man position PF(before the abundance of stretch 4's)

those boston young guys are closer to Al Harrington than being a stud, and Harrington was decent but nothing special / stud, that's what Boston players remind me of, they have 1 stud in Irving and 2 solid players in Horford / Hayward and good serviceable players in Smart / Tatum / Brown and the rest of the rat pack bunch who are boring as hell to watch(from my lens) since Irving went out and to a smaller extent Hayward

Brown / Tatum are not must watch/box office and that's a shame seeing all this playing time they are getting early, Brown should be averaging close to 25ppg right now with all the injuries, they will be Wiggins like on a lower level because I feel Wiggins is naturally more talented than both

And yeah I know how 'young' they are, but that didn't stop others who were true studs from entering the league either straight out of high school / 1 yr college and putting the league on notice, that's how you separate the studs from serviceable players, Celtics have plenty of those, you need mvp caliber players and the Celtics would be wise to look at either Leonard / Davis and see about getting a true stud for a façade so called 'stud' that you feel they have in Boston

in 3 years lets re visit this and I guarantee you they will be the same players pretty much, just more seasoned they will be but doing what they do now, jacking up shots and playing sound defense(or at least trying)

you are the one losing sight on a money issue, its only a issue because they want to make it seem like they have morals and financial code, since when does a printing machine worry about money? rather Boston owns the machine or borrows it from U.S. Bureau it still has unlimited access, the Rockets and Clippers have sold their teams for 2Billion dollars, the nba should have a cap number like the nfl / mlb, who also operate with money printing machines as well. unlimited means just that, regardless what a salary cap is, its all monopoly money at the end of the day so why not do like Gilbert and pay the luxury tax, its a 'tax' write off any how, everything is contract / taxes / bills once you truly get a grasp on commerce / economics. the most important aspect in sports outside of health / availability is ''contracts''

let that sink in for a minute, you print / have access to money printer but you are being cheap nitpicking over inferior players contracts over a true max level stud that you can probably get if he gets on the trade market

and lastly if you really knew how money was created then you would know they are all in equal as players until you start talking about 'contract' numbers, then you start getting separated by numbers, but that's not the case at all if you knew the origins of how we are monetized by the minute on a daily basisJB dropped 30 last night And killed it game one...........

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

TylerSL
04-18-2018, 07:09 AM
Literally 29 teams would be interested in Kawhi Leonard if he is available, but really only a handful of teams would be able to reasonably make a competitive offer. Leonard is better than Kyrie, Cousins, Butler, and PG13 who were all traded recently. No, the Spurs wouldn't get equal value for Leonard, but they could expect more than what those other teams got for their stars.

So the teams that I believe could actually make a competitive offer are Boston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, Portland, Los Angeles Lakers, and (everyone will hate it) Golden State. Nobody else has the necessary assets, or would be willing to part with them, to make any kind of deal happen. Here is what I think the teams that would be in contention for him would offer

Boston
The Spurs would ask for BOTH Tatum and Brown, plus Rozier, plus other role players, plus multiple first round picks. Tatum, Brown, and Rozier are the Celtics future, but if Boston were to acquire Kawhi he would become their present and future. That said, I think Boston would only be willing to trade one of Tatum or Brown, plus Rozier, plus maybe another player, plus one or two first round picks. This would be my hypothetical trade scenario.

Celtics get-Kawhi Leonard
Spurs get-Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, Daniel Theis, Guerschon Yabusele, Memphis 2019 first round pick (top 8 protected), Sacramento 2019 first round pick

The Spurs would basically be getting two young talents in Tatum and Rozier, a solid role player in Morris, two strong lottery picks, and two fliers on some other young guys. That's not equal value for a 26 year-old who is a Finals MVP, two-time DPOY and top MVP candidate when healthy, but it's a good haul. While the Celtics would part with some serious assets, they would literally assemble a Fantastic Four (Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, Horford).

Phoenix
The Suns have both the assets and the cap space to make any trade they want. If they decide they are ready to make moves, they could cash in on an opportunity such as this. The Spurs would want Booker, plus the 2018 pick, plus some more. However, I'm certain the Suns would make it clear going into any negotiation that Booker is untouchable. They would have to part with their 2018 pick to even open the door so I could see this being the trade. I'm also assuming Phoenix would want an assurance that Kawhi wouldn't bolt town after 2019 before they decided to pull the trigger.

Suns get-Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills
Spurs get-Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender, Jared Dudley, TJ Warren, Davon Reed, Suns 2018 unprotected first round pick, Miami 2018 first round pick (#16 overall)

The Suns pair Kawhi with Booker plus grab a needed point guard, while the Spurs basically commit to a rebuild. Jackson and Bender are still developing and whatever rookie they get (Ayton?) wouldn't be ready to make them a championship contender next season. The Suns would still have the flexibility to put pieces around Kawhi and Booker immediately. The Spurs would have a strong young core of Jackson, the Suns and Heat 2018 picks, Murray, and Bender. While they would probably write off the 18-19 season, they could be back in the playoffs as soon as 19-20. They're the Spurs though, they would likely make the playoffs in 18-19 too.

Philadelphia
Obviously Simmons and Embiid wouldn't be part of any trade, the point of getting Kawhi would be to pair him with those guys (and still sign Lebron!) Everyone else on the roster would be available, and the Spurs would want a lot. Talks would have to begin with at least Fultz, Saric, and the Lakers 2018 pick. As for how this deal gets done, I could see

76ers get-Kawhi Leonard
Spurs get-Markelle Fultz, Dario Saric, Richaun Holmes, Justin Anderson, Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot, Lakers 2018 first round pick, Philadelphia 2020 first round pick.

Philadelphia creates a super young killer trio of Kawhi-Embiid-Simmons (plus Lebron?), while the Spurs commit to a rebuild. Much like the Phoenix trade, the Spurs would grab developing pieces in Fultz and Saric, plus a good 2018 lottery pick. Holmes is also a nice piece, but it would ultimately be a move toward the future.

Portland
This trade would only be possible if the Spurs weren't ready to go into a rebuild and opted to try to get back players who could help them win as soon as next season. Obviously McCollum would have to be in play (Portland isn't trading Lillard for anything unless he asks), plus multiple first round picks.

Blazers get-Kawhi Leonard, Pau Gasol
Spurs get-CJ McCollum, Zach Collins, Caleb Swanigan, 2018 first round pick (#24 overall), 2020 first round pick.

Portland would upgrade McCollum for Kawhi while the Spurs remain in contention (add McCollum to the Spurs right now and they would be a top three team in the West), obtain some young pieces, open cap space, and grab a few picks as well. Portland would take on Gasol's contract, opening some space up for the Spurs to build around McCollum/Aldridge. Collins and Swanigan could develop into pretty good players, and the picks would be icing. While I am not sure that this would be the winning bid, Portland would at least be a finalist if they offered it.

Los Angeles Lakers
I think the Spurs would demand both Ingram AND Kuzma. Without Kuzma I don't see how the Lakers have the assets to make this happen(because they aren't trading Ball). They would also have to involve Randle in a sign and trade of some sort to make the salaries work.

Lakers get-Kawhi Leonard
Spurs get-Brandon Ingram, Julius Randle sign/trade, Kyle Kuzma, Lakers 2019 first round pick, Lakers 2021 first round pick

The Lakers would want to sign another max level free agent type to join Kawhi if they were to do this, and San Antonio would have to really believe in Ingram. I'm not sure this trade would happen because I'm not sure the Lakers are willing to give all that up in a trade, and will look to free agency instead. Also, I think the Spurs would get better offers. Still something to think about though.

Golden State
This would be contingent upon if the Warriors were willing to break up a championship core. Jerry West is no longer with the Warriors and he reportedly saved Klay Thompson from being traded to Minnesota for Kevin Love years ago when Love was dominating for the T-Wolves. With West gone, would the Warriors ever try to move Thompson for Kawhi if given the chance? I'm not sure they would considering this is a team that's been to three consecutive NBA Finals and won two titles. However, maybe they would think Kawhi would give them a better chance than Thompson and would be willing to do it. However, the Spurs would want more than just Thompson, who will also be a free agent in 2019, and so the Warriors would almost be forced to also include Draymond. Again, it seems far fetched, but it's possible they would consider moving them now and forming a trio of KD/Kawhi/Steph before they potentially lose Thompson and/or Green in the next few years.

Warriors get-Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills
Spurs get-Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, Warriors 2018 first round pick (#28 overall).

Warriors would dismantle their championship core to solidify an unholy trio of KD/Kawhi/Steph while the Spurs stay relevant now, get a young piece in Bell, and a late first round pick. I could also envision this potentially being a three-team trade where Draymond goes to another team. This is an unlikely trade, but a possible one IMO.

Of all the trade scenarios above, I would say the most likely destinations would be to Boston, Philadelphia, or Portland. I'm not sure the Suns would be willing to part with their pick, especially if it's #1 overall, for a player who missed the entire season and is a year away from free agency, even if that player is Kawhi. I'm not sure the Lakers would be willing to include Kuzma, or that San Antonio would just choose to go another direction considering they could get better offers. I'd have to see Golden State break up their core before I try and predict that they would. Boston, Philadelphia, and Portland not only have the means, but are the teams who would be most likely to pull the trigger on a trade.

Of those trades, I think the Spurs would be good as gold if they could get that Celtics deal.

mike_noodles
04-18-2018, 08:11 AM
It makes no sense to try and figure out who can make the best offer. For several reasons, nobody really knows what the Spurs are thinking. They could try and get good NBA players back and build a 50 win team around Aldridge. They may want draft picks. They may want prospects. Who knows really. Remember we all tried to decide who would make the best offer for Cousins, and it ended up being Buddy Hield and a cold apple pie. The Pacers chose Oladipo over a plethora of other talent (and ended up being spot on) for PG. The Clippers gave away Chris Paul for an underwhelming package. So to sit here and say that there's only these teams or whoever that can make a competitive offer is just wrong. The Spurs may see no upside in guys like Fultz, Tatum or Brown. They may decide that Jamal Murray is the only kid they want in the whole league for all we know.

Chronz
04-18-2018, 01:28 PM
Would cp3 have chosen Houston if kawhi were
Healthy

Mave1002
04-19-2018, 04:12 AM
More like... teams lining up for 2019 UFA Kawhi Leonard. God knows if he's even gona consider re-signing with the team that he's traded to. Can't see him being traded to a western conference team.

We'll know more next year.

Mave1002
04-19-2018, 04:17 AM
It makes no sense to try and figure out who can make the best offer. For several reasons, nobody really knows what the Spurs are thinking. They could try and get good NBA players back and build a 50 win team around Aldridge. They may want draft picks. They may want prospects. Who knows really. Remember we all tried to decide who would make the best offer for Cousins, and it ended up being Buddy Hield and a cold apple pie. The Pacers chose Oladipo over a plethora of other talent (and ended up being spot on) for PG. The Clippers gave away Chris Paul for an underwhelming package. So to sit here and say that there's only these teams or whoever that can make a competitive offer is just wrong. The Spurs may see no upside in guys like Fultz, Tatum or Brown. They may decide that Jamal Murray is the only kid they want in the whole league for all we know.

Agree.

I'm calling it now. Best offer -- the glorified Luol Deng + assets to the Spurs for Kawhi Leonard. His career will definitely be redefined as a Spur.

Oakmont_4
04-19-2018, 07:25 AM
Boston
The Spurs would ask for BOTH Tatum and Brown, plus Rozier, plus other role players, plus multiple first round picks. Tatum, Brown, and Rozier are the Celtics future, but if Boston were to acquire Kawhi he would become their present and future. That said, I think Boston would only be willing to trade one of Tatum or Brown, plus Rozier, plus maybe another player, plus one or two first round picks. This would be my hypothetical trade scenario.

Celtics get-Kawhi Leonard
Spurs get-Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, Daniel Theis, Guerschon Yabusele, Memphis 2019 first round pick (top 8 protected), Sacramento 2019 first round pick

The Spurs would basically be getting two young talents in Tatum and Rozier, a solid role player in Morris, two strong lottery picks, and two fliers on some other young guys. That's not equal value for a 26 year-old who is a Finals MVP, two-time DPOY and top MVP candidate when healthy, but it's a good haul. While the Celtics would part with some serious assets, they would literally assemble a Fantastic Four (Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, Horford).


Celtics won't trade Tatum...He's untradeable at this point I think.

A deal centered around Brown and Rozier I think would get the conversation started on both sides.

Theis is a guy they want to hold onto.

I think the most BOS would offer is
Brown
Rozier
Morris
Yabusele
Nader

The money works out. We would probably throw in up to 2 first round picks (non SAC picks). So probably MEM and LAC picks we own. Maybe a 3rd pick of our own.

This is a good offer. I can't see many teams beating it (it's not unbeatable though).

SAS gets Brown/Rozier as a viable back court to rebuild around and both are under 25 with cheap contracts and controllable for a few more years. Morris is a solid vet on cheap money for 1 year. Yabusele is an intriguing young prospect, but does have a ways to go. Nader is a throw in. Plus 2-3 first round picks. That's a nice offer.

Leonard is a top 5 NBA player when healthy and not whatever else is going on with him. He does have baggage now so his price has to drop a little from what it once was. He'll still be heavily sought after...But for the Celtics I don't think it makes sense to give up Tatum (higher ceiling than Brown) and Theis (a key role player). We can still offer a very good deal without including those 2.

If SAS says no to the outlined deal. I have no problem standing pat and building around Tatum/Brown/Rozier. That's a bright future so BOS has the upper hand in these negotiations.

cmellofan15
04-19-2018, 08:11 AM
Send him to Denver! Get a lottery pick, some nice young wing players, a young (or old) stretch four of your choosing...hell take a pick from next year too!

WaDe03
04-19-2018, 02:42 PM
Lakers and Kawhi have mutual interest and Cavs still plan on pursuing LeBron and PG are the 2 big stories in seeing today. Trade for Kawhi and then sign LeBron and PG? That would be very interesting.

IndyRealist
04-19-2018, 03:27 PM
Lakers and Kawhi have mutual interest and Cavs still plan on pursuing LeBron and PG are the 2 big stories in seeing today. Trade for Kawhi and then sign LeBron and PG? That would be very interesting.

Not according to Woj

Leonard’s current situation with the San Antonio Spurs has led to suggestions the Lakers could make a move for the 26-year-old.

But ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski suggests Los Angeles want to instead team James up with George.

He said: "The Lakers plan hasn’t changed. They want to get both of them."

WaDe03
04-19-2018, 04:23 PM
Not according to Woj

Leonard’s current situation with the San Antonio Spurs has led to suggestions the Lakers could make a move for the 26-year-old.

But ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski suggests Los Angeles want to instead team James up with George.

He said: "The Lakers plan hasn’t changed. They want to get both of them."

Weird, they have the ability to get all 3 if Kawhi is really available.

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-19-2018, 04:33 PM
Not according to Woj

Leonard’s current situation with the San Antonio Spurs has led to suggestions the Lakers could make a move for the 26-year-old.

But ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski suggests Los Angeles want to instead team James up with George.

He said: "The Lakers plan hasn’t changed. They want to get both of them."

I heard that interview and he didn't say they dont want Leonard. The question asked was only about free agency plans. Kawhi would be a straight trade which they could still do even if their pipe dream of signing both George and James came true.

GREATNESS ONE
04-19-2018, 04:50 PM
Not according to Woj

Leonard’s current situation with the San Antonio Spurs has led to suggestions the Lakers could make a move for the 26-year-old.

But ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski suggests Los Angeles want to instead team James up with George.

He said: "The Lakers plan hasn’t changed. They want to get both of them."

Right but if we traded for Kawhi for something like

Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, Deng, 1st rounder for Kawhi we’ll have 65-67m in cap space and able to sign Lebron & PG also...

D Blue987
04-19-2018, 05:04 PM
If the Lakers sign George and James in the offseason, Kawhi will be a Laker. He will leak out info through his camp that says he will not sign an extension with anyone else other than the Lakers when he is a free agent in 2019. That would effectively kill the market for him much like PG13 did the Pacers. (Although they did waaaay better than ANYONE thought with Oladipo even though most felt it was a horrible trade at the time) Lakers can offer Kuzma & Ingram but if I am Leonard, I would be leaking my desired destination in a heartbeat so as to not weaken the team I am traded to significantly.

D Blue987
04-19-2018, 05:06 PM
Right but if we traded for Kawhi for something like

Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, Deng, 1st rounder for Kawhi we’ll have 65-67m in cap space and able to sign Lebron & PG also...

Would be shocked if the Lakers would even entertain trading BOTH of Kuzma and Ingram for a guy with health questions and who everyone knows doesn't want to be in SA anymore. One of those two for sure.

IndyRealist
04-19-2018, 05:07 PM
Right but if we traded for Kawhi for something like

Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, Deng, 1st rounder for Kawhi we’ll have 65-67m in cap space and able to sign Lebron & PG also...

Never said it wasn't possible. Just posting what I saw reported.

Oakmont_4
04-19-2018, 05:14 PM
Right but if we traded for Kawhi for something like

Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, Deng, 1st rounder for Kawhi we’ll have 65-67m in cap space and able to sign Lebron & PG also...

First off, I doubt that trade gets Leonard but let's say it does.

That would leave a roster of

Leonard
Ball
Hart

After renouncing all other Free Agents rights/cap holds...The Lakers would have $33.92M in committed salaries. That's right around $67M. That is enough to outright sign both LeBron and George.

However, you'd have 1 exception to add a decent player which would give you a total of 6 players that are not minimum contract level guys.

So yes, though possible, I'd say extremely unlikely. The Lakers would be better off boasting a roster featuring just LeBron and George and some actual depth.

GREATNESS ONE
04-19-2018, 07:34 PM
Don’t forget Lopez, who already said he will sign for peanuts if we get George/LBJ.

GREATNESS ONE
04-19-2018, 07:35 PM
Would be shocked if the Lakers would even entertain trading BOTH of Kuzma and Ingram for a guy with health questions and who everyone knows doesn't want to be in SA anymore. One of those two for sure.

I think so too bro, we’ll see what happens!

More-Than-Most
04-19-2018, 07:57 PM
I think so too bro, we’ll see what happens!

yup. It would be idiotic.

Mave1002
04-20-2018, 02:19 AM
If the Lakers sign George and James in the offseason, Kawhi will be a Laker. He will leak out info through his camp that says he will not sign an extension with anyone else other than the Lakers when he is a free agent in 2019. That would effectively kill the market for him much like PG13 did the Pacers. (Although they did waaaay better than ANYONE thought with Oladipo even though most felt it was a horrible trade at the time) Lakers can offer Kuzma & Ingram but if I am Leonard, I would be leaking my desired destination in a heartbeat so as to not weaken the team I am traded to significantly.

I truly wish Kawhi recognizes the situation. We'll likely lose Randle but that'll save Kuzma from getting involved in any trade scenario.

I wouldnt be so hurt if trading Ingram/Zubac and a couple of more picks to the Spurs meant, getting rid of Deng's contract and ultimately landing the trio of Kawhi/George/James.

Add Lonzo Ball as the primary playmaker and Kuzma/Hart off the bench? Difficult to pass on something as crazy as that.

Lopez/Bryant
James/Kuzma
Kawhi
George/Hart
Ball

Oakmont_4
04-20-2018, 06:34 AM
I truly wish Kawhi recognizes the situation. We'll likely lose Randle but that'll save Kuzma from getting involved in any trade scenario.

I wouldnt be so hurt if trading Ingram/Zubac and a couple of more picks to the Spurs meant, getting rid of Deng's contract and ultimately landing the trio of Kawhi/George/James.

Add Lonzo Ball as the primary playmaker and Kuzma/Hart off the bench? Difficult to pass on something as crazy as that.

Lopez/Bryant
James/Kuzma
Kawhi
George/Hart
Ball

Why the hell would SAS trade a top 5 NBA player when healthy for Deng who's useless on a ridiculous contract, Ingram who still has big upside but has been a bit of a disappointment and Zubac who's career averages are 5.5ppg and 3.5rpg.

It's going to take ALOT more than that to land Kawhi. The SAS aren't the best organization in basketball for no reason. It's in part because they don't make stupid trades and this is a stupid trade.

TrueFan420
04-20-2018, 12:06 PM
How are you going to pay everyone? Horford and Irving have Player Options the same year Brown will need to be extended... and if you think Brown is that good he will be extended the prior fall.

Depending on the price and KL's health Boston should definitely pursue him. Trading a Brown or Tatum and another young player along with a couple of firsts (not nets) is well worth it.

Things change quickly in the NBA

They can go over the cap for a few years if their winning rings. Their market will support it. But I agree they should go after him. My comment was more about bringing up something the Celtics will be taking into account when they make their decision on whether or not to move for him. They'd be lethal with him tho. And be able to give the Warriors fits. Depending on what they package I'd argue the series as a wash.

FlashBolt
04-20-2018, 12:53 PM
Why the hell would SAS trade a top 5 NBA player when healthy for Deng who's useless on a ridiculous contract, Ingram who still has big upside but has been a bit of a disappointment and Zubac who's career averages are 5.5ppg and 3.5rpg.

It's going to take ALOT more than that to land Kawhi. The SAS aren't the best organization in basketball for no reason. It's in part because they don't make stupid trades and this is a stupid trade.

Ingram+Ball+Deng

valade16
04-20-2018, 01:10 PM
Why the hell would SAS trade a top 5 NBA player when healthy for Deng who's useless on a ridiculous contract, Ingram who still has big upside but has been a bit of a disappointment and Zubac who's career averages are 5.5ppg and 3.5rpg.

It's going to take ALOT more than that to land Kawhi. The SAS aren't the best organization in basketball for no reason. It's in part because they don't make stupid trades and this is a stupid trade.

Anytime you have to put qualifies to a player, understand their value goes down. His injury is dropping his trade value. His possible rift with the Spurs is dropping his trade value.

That being said, the trade I saw no PSD's front page was:

Ingram
Randle (in a Sign and trade)
1st Round Pick


I agree, no way SA takes on Deng's contract. It's not a bad haul (though obviously far short of Kawhi's value). Compare it to other trade offers that are realistic:

Blazers:
CJ McCollum
Zach Collins
1st Round Pick

76ers:
Fultz
Covington/Saric
1st Round Pick

Celtics:
Tatum
Horford
1st Round Pick


It's in the same ballpark as the other trades (essentially comes down to which young player you think will develop the best between Ingram, Tatum, Fultz). But I think it's obvious that if Kawhi is on the block, the Celtics could put together the best offer if they wanted him.

warfelg
04-20-2018, 01:17 PM
Call this a slight homerism:
As long as Pops and RC are around I think our (Sixers) offer will be near the top. We’ve got a very similar system, we like similar players, and Pops and RC are very fond of Brett Brown.

Gut feeling better I think that might tip the scales some.

valade16
04-20-2018, 01:26 PM
Call this a slight homerism:
As long as Pops and RC are around I think our (Sixers) offer will be near the top. We’ve got a very similar system, we like similar players, and Pops and RC are very fond of Brett Brown.

Gut feeling better I think that might tip the scales some.

If the Spurs feel that Fultz is the better prospect than whatever Boston/LAL have to offer, they have the best offer. Cousins was traded for Hield despite there being rumors of better offers out there simply because Sacto's brain trust felt Hield was the best prospect of the offers. So the 76ers have a legitimate chance depending on how SA views Fultz (who I'm assuming is the most likely centerpiece of a trade).

GREATNESS ONE
04-20-2018, 02:04 PM
Ingram is the best young piece they can get for Kawhi.

Deng is only involved because it makes the money work, S&T for Randle does too, maybe a 3rd team needs to get involved. I just think Kawhi can tip the scales by not committing to an extension with any team other than the Lakers.

c.c.
04-22-2018, 11:39 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Who wins and who loses in this trade?

hugepatsfan
04-22-2018, 11:48 AM
Maybe some homerism here but I feel like Tatum would be the guy SA likes best. Ingram is obviously a tremendous young talent. Fultz was the #1 pick for a reason and I still believe. But I think Tatum showed a lot in BOS that's transferrable to SA's system of ball movement. Character wise he seems like such a Spurs guy. I feel like of the talked about teams - BOS, PHI, NYK, LAL - Tatum would be the piece valued individually the highest. And then I think BOS can round out the offer as well as anyone.

For me, as a C's fan, I wouldn't do both Brown and Tatum in a deal. Obviously Kawhi is tremendous but I feel confident about the potential of those two. Also, their contracts line up with Horford's expiring deal to give us financial flexibility that would be gone if we traded for Kawhi and maxed him out. So I wouldn't do both. BUT, if you can get him for just one then I think it's a no brainer move.

I'd prefer to give up Brown but I don't see franchise player potential with him unless his handles/shot creation grow beyond where I expect. He has shown more progression than I expected there to date so maybe SA agrees but I don't see it. I think it would take Tatum and I'd do it.

hugepatsfan
04-22-2018, 11:50 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine

Who wins and who loses in this trade?

I'm not seeing any offer in the link. But judging from your avi, my guess is that HOU wins and SA loses lol

c.c.
04-22-2018, 12:54 PM
I'm not seeing any offer in the link. But judging from your avi, my guess is that HOU wins and SA loses lol

Haha funny but it was an LAL-SA trade. I don’t why it’s not showing

hugepatsfan
04-22-2018, 12:56 PM
Just kind of piggybacking off of what I said above...

I'd offer Tatum, Rozier, Yabusele, Semi Ojeleye and Abdel Nader (non guaranteed filler) with the '19 SAC pick.

I'd then re-sign Smart with Bird Rights. Re-sign Baynes with non-bird rights. Use the taxpayers MLE on a shooter like Belinelli, Seth Curry, etc.

Kyrie / Smart
Leonard / (Shooter)
Hayward / Brown
Horford / Morris
Baynes / Theis

To fill out the third unit we still have our 1st rounder and vet min deals. The bi-annual exception is also there if there's a good value out there (or gives us an edge over some teams for in-season buyouts).

smoothhooper
04-23-2018, 11:59 PM
when healthy he is the second best player in the league behind lebron

Ishkabibble
04-26-2018, 04:14 PM
"those Boston young guys (Tatum and Brown) are closer to Al Harrington than being a stud, and Harrington was decent but nothing special / stud, that's what Boston players remind me of."

Mind-numbingly absurd thing to say about two guys that are 21 and 20.
You act as if Kawhi Leonard was Kawhi Leonard from the moment he came into the NBA?
Wrong.
He was the 15th pick in 2011 and averaged under 8 PPG his rookie season.
So GM's believed there were 14 better prospects in that draft.
Who's to say in time either Brown or Tatum could not be the Leonard-level?
The Al Harrington comparison is beyond laughable.
Both Brown and Tatum will be better players within two seasons than AH ever was.

kdspurman
04-27-2018, 04:07 PM
make of this what you will... Kawhi is in NYC and still in Spurs gear. Albeit with the uncle who seems to be causing some communication issues


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=MBujjzhh1vQ

warfelg
04-27-2018, 04:10 PM
make of this what you will... Kawhi is in NYC and still in Spurs gear.


There's a report out there that he made a demand that coming back and not requesting a trade require Pops loosen up some in practice, on their life outside of basketball, and not resting him as much.

kdspurman
04-27-2018, 04:12 PM
There's a report out there that he made a demand that coming back and not requesting a trade require Pops loosen up some in practice, on their life outside of basketball, and not resting him as much.

Yea that bogus report from Frank Isola lol

Pop's teams typically don't practice a ton anyway, and Kawhi is known to be a gym rat who probably got this quad thing from overuse and working out so much

Vinylman
04-30-2018, 09:32 AM
make of this what you will... Kawhi is in NYC and still in Spurs gear. Albeit with the uncle who seems to be causing some communication issues


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=MBujjzhh1vQ

what did you expect him to be wearing? He seems like a guy that would wear a hello kitty shirt if it was free...

kdspurman
04-30-2018, 09:42 AM
what did you expect him to be wearing? He seems like a guy that would wear a hello kitty shirt if it was free...

judging from all the rumors and stuff people are throwing out there, anything but Spurs gear :laugh2:

WaDe03
05-02-2018, 12:37 PM
Peter Vescey says the Spurs are done with Kawhi and if they trade him it'll be to the Eastern conference.

SfgiantsJD3
05-02-2018, 01:03 PM
If he is not "medically ready" to come back and play, SAS should apply for the Disabled Player Exception and sign someone else and deal with it when he is "medically ready" to play.

warfelg
05-02-2018, 01:06 PM
If he is not "medically ready" to come back and play, SAS should apply for the Disabled Player Exception and sign someone else and deal with it when he is "medically ready" to play.

That means he wouldn’t be able to play for a while.

SfgiantsJD3
05-02-2018, 02:03 PM
That means he wouldn’t be able to play for a while.

Well his advisors say he isn't ready to play, this forces it to a NBA appointed doctor and gets cap relief if he is injured.

IndyRealist
05-02-2018, 02:21 PM
Peter Vescey says the Spurs are done with Kawhi and if they trade him it'll be to the Eastern conference.

Peter Vecsey makes a lot of crap up. It's not true until Woj says it, imho.

kdspurman
05-02-2018, 04:44 PM
Peter Vescey says the Spurs are done with Kawhi and if they trade him it'll be to the Eastern conference.

Peter Vescey is definitely not an SA insider, I can tell you that much.

Right now Kawhi is in SA, and I would imagine after Pop has the services for his wife, they will sit and chat.

WaDe03
05-02-2018, 05:16 PM
He says Pop didn't want him at practices and the team is now determined to trade him. We'll see what happens.

IndyRealist
05-02-2018, 07:37 PM
He says Pop didn't want him at practices and the team is now determined to trade him. We'll see what happens.

NOW I remember why I think Vecsey makes sh** up. He reported that the Pacers owner, Herb Simon, was incensed that the Lakers had tampered with Paul George and would file a lawsuit against the Lakers and the league. Obviously that didn't happen. Like this "report", literally no one is saying it except Vecsey and people quoting him.

I'll leave you with this essentially contradicting report:

Ramona Shelbourne: “What I’ve heard is that he’s in touch with [Gregg Popovich]. He and Pop text each other quite a bit. How much he’s able to express or tell him is another story.”

WaDe03
05-02-2018, 07:49 PM
Ramona ain't Woj

kdspurman
05-02-2018, 09:36 PM
Ramona ain't Woj

No, but that story has been confirmed by Kawhi and others close to the organization. Vescey (who has some issues with Pop, was documented some time ago) has never reported anything re: The Spurs, I think it's hilarious he and many others are suddenly so informed of what's going on :laugh2:

Vinylman
05-03-2018, 09:28 AM
No, but that story has been confirmed by Kawhi and others close to the organization. Vescey (who has some issues with Pop, was documented some time ago) has never reported anything re: The Spurs, I think it's hilarious he and many others are suddenly so informed of what's going on :laugh2:

what is really funny is the death of Pop's wife might actually help keep KL...

kdspurman
05-03-2018, 10:13 AM
what is really funny is the death of Pop's wife might actually help keep KL...

I don't know if i'd call that funny, but from everyone close to the situation, it's been the same/consistent reports the last few months.

The only thing his wife's death changed was Kawhi would've joined the team to show his support, if Pop coached again.

WaDe03
05-03-2018, 10:38 AM
I'm the PSD Woj, if I post something you better believe it.

IndyRealist
05-03-2018, 10:38 AM
Ramona ain't Woj

Neither is Vecsey.

FlashBolt
05-03-2018, 01:22 PM
Spurs need to trade Kawhi. They can get a huge haul for him from Boston, Lakers, Sixers, or whichever team is desperate right now. And there are a lot. I don't see too many Spurs fans but some that I have asked have not shyed away from the fact that trading Kawhi might be an acceptable option at this point.

kdspurman
05-03-2018, 01:44 PM
Spurs need to trade Kawhi. They can get a huge haul for him from Boston, Lakers, Sixers, or whichever team is desperate right now. And there are a lot. I don't see too many Spurs fans but some that I have asked have not shyed away from the fact that trading Kawhi might be an acceptable option at this point.

It's only acceptable if he doesn't want to be with the Spurs. If he does, there's no reason to trade him. Definitely won't get back equal value. They can work out any communication or other issues (ie Kawhi's uncle) and move on.

Chronz
05-03-2018, 02:49 PM
Peter Vescey is definitely not an SA insider, I can tell you that much.

Right now Kawhi is in SA, and I would imagine after Pop has the services for his wife, they will sit and chat.
You've been denying the inevitable all year, it's your job as a spurs fan to defend the situation even though it's gone so wrong to begin with.

I'm saying this so you don't get butt hurt if kawhi leaves, it almost happened with Duncan if doc had just agreed to whatever Duncan wanted. As a fan of the nba beyond any singular team, I recommend you disassociate yourself from this sort of behavior. It's turned you into a zealot

Chronz
05-03-2018, 02:52 PM
It's only acceptable if he doesn't want to be with the Spurs. If he does, there's no reason to trade him. Definitely won't get back equal value. They can work out any communication or other issues (ie Kawhi's uncle) and move on.
He's alluding to that already. Obviously you don't trade a star unless he wants out and even then it comes down to the contract. Kobe wanted out and didn't get tradedso you can still endup with kawhi. But entertain this thought, what if he doesn't want to be there but returns for the money any how. Would you prefer that over letting kawhi decide his nba destiny? What if he resigns THEN wants out?

FlashBolt
05-03-2018, 02:58 PM
It's only acceptable if he doesn't want to be with the Spurs. If he does, there's no reason to trade him. Definitely won't get back equal value. They can work out any communication or other issues (ie Kawhi's uncle) and move on.

If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason, I would trade him. He's too much of an asset to lose and not get anything in return. Yes, likely you won't get equal value in return but which team usually does under similar situations?

kdspurman
05-03-2018, 03:14 PM
If he doesn't sign an extension this offseason, I would trade him.He's too much of an asset to lose and not get anything in return. Yes, likely you won't get equal value in return but which team usually does under similar situations?

I agree with this

Chronz
05-03-2018, 03:15 PM
He may sign the extension and then get dealt next year

kdspurman
05-03-2018, 03:19 PM
You've been denying the inevitable all year, it's your job as a spurs fan to defend the situation even though it's gone so wrong to begin with.

I'm saying this so you don't get butt hurt if kawhi leaves, it almost happened with Duncan if doc had just agreed to whatever Duncan wanted. As a fan of the nba beyond any singular team, I recommend you disassociate yourself from this sort of behavior. It's turned you into a zealot

:laugh2: Nah man. I just don't believe the Peter Vescey's or Jalen Rose's of the world as all of a sudden insiders for the Spurs when that's never been the case. And honestly, I've been back and forth on this, so I wouldn't be caught off guard if he does want out, his uncle may have an agenda. But every legit article/insider has had the same consistent story, and none of them alluded to Kawhi wanting out.


He's alluding to that already. Obviously you don't trade a star unless he wants out and even then it comes down to the contract. Kobe wanted out and didn't get tradedso you can still endup with kawhi. But entertain this thought, what if he doesn't want to be there but returns for the money any how. Would you prefer that over letting kawhi decide his nba destiny? What if he resigns THEN wants out?

Sure, it would probably be easier to move him if he's signed already. The receiving team would obviously have that multi-year contract vs this year potentially being a 1 year rental if he chooses not to sign and wants out.

Chronz
05-03-2018, 03:23 PM
:laugh2: Nah man. I just don't believe the Peter Vescey's or Jalen Rose's of the world as all of a sudden insiders for the Spurs when that's never been the case. And honestly, I've been back and forth on this, so I wouldn't be caught off guard if he does want out, his uncle may have an agenda. But every legit article/insider has had the same consistent story, and none of them alluded to Kawhi wanting out.



Sure, it would probably be easier to move him if he's signed already. The receiving team would obviously have that multi-year contract vs this year potentially being a 1 year rental if he chooses not to sign and wants out.
I trust no one, just saying plenty of spurs guys have been wrong about kawhi all year, I'll trust HOF writers more in this kind of scenario. What you consider legit has already led you astray this year.

Cold blooded onthe second point, but true

Tg11
05-08-2018, 01:01 PM
Celtics trade for Kawhi and what would I give up?

Brown, Rozier, Tatum and 2 draft picks to get Kawhi

FlashBolt
05-08-2018, 01:09 PM
Celtics trade for Kawhi and what would I give up?

Brown, Rozier, Tatum and 2 draft picks to get Kawhi

Pop would coach for another 10+ years if you give him those Celtics players lol. That's a dumb trade for Celtics to make.

Tg11
05-08-2018, 01:14 PM
Pop would coach for another 10+ years if you give him those Celtics players lol. That's a dumb trade for Celtics to make.

Yeah but we would get Kawhi and add him to our core of Kyrie, Horford and Hayward that would be an instant title contender. Personally I wouldn't give up our young guys but if I had to then I would.

GREATNESS ONE
05-08-2018, 04:45 PM
Yeah but we would get Kawhi and add him to our core of Kyrie, Horford and Hayward that would be an instant title contender. Personally I wouldn't give up our young guys but if I had to then I would.

What if Spurs wanted Hayward, Kyrie + picks? Would you still do it?

Tg11
05-08-2018, 04:56 PM
What if Spurs wanted Hayward, Kyrie + picks? Would you still do it?

Then in that case I wouldn't...I would give up only 1 of them plus picks but that's it

GREATNESS ONE
05-08-2018, 06:27 PM
Then in that case I wouldn't...I would give up only 1 of them plus picks but that's it

They look pretty good right now w/o them both....