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kdspurman
04-01-2018, 11:23 AM
http://i68.tinypic.com/10x9h78.png

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 02:47 PM
No Embiid... No saric... Ben simmons says I got this... 18/13/8 with 3 blocks and 2 steals in 3 quarters... he scored or assisted on 28-30 points when the sixers had a 1 point lead to put them up 15.... one of the GOAT roy years we will ever see.

tp13baby
04-01-2018, 04:40 PM
No Embiid... No saric... Ben simmons says I got this... 18/13/8 with 3 blocks and 2 steals in 3 quarters... he scored or assisted on 28-30 points when the sixers had a 1 point lead to put them up 15.... one of the GOAT roy years we will ever see.

He isnít even a runaway in ROTY. No way in hell is it a goat rookie season.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 04:54 PM
He isnít even a runaway in ROTY. No way in hell is it a goat rookie season.

:laugh:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/late_season_push_clearly_makes_ben_simmons_nba_roy/s1_12680_26085185

You can say that when you can tell me 1 thing besides PPG on more shots that Dmitch does better than simmons.

warfelg
04-01-2018, 04:57 PM
That 20-8-15 with 3 steals and 2 blocks was very LeBron like. Just balled in a way thatís a highlight for a ton of players, just another day for these guys.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 05:00 PM
16/8/8 on 54 pct shooting leading the sixers to possibly 20 games better than last year when all is said and done while leading all rookies in steals/blocks and defense.

Vee-Rex
04-01-2018, 05:09 PM
That 20-8-15 with 3 steals and 2 blocks was very LeBron like. Just balled in a way thatís a highlight for a ton of players, just another day for these guys.

The torch is being passed, fellas:

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/sawh971218176380.jpg?w=575&quality=90&strip=info

http://upl.stack.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/09111310/LeBron-James-Says-Kobe-Bryant-Gave-Him-a-Pair-of-His-Sneakers-When-He-Was-in-High-School-STACK.jpg

https://cavsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LeBron-James-Ben-Simmons-e1512068974145.jpeg

nastynice
04-01-2018, 05:39 PM
:laugh:

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/late_season_push_clearly_makes_ben_simmons_nba_roy/s1_12680_26085185

You can say that when you can tell me 1 thing besides PPG on more shots that Dmitch does better than simmons.

Have an expected lottery team competing for a playoff spot in the west.

I think Simmons is a better player, I think Mitchell is having a better season.

Also Simmons isnít a rookie, I like him but I donít wanna see a non rookie winning that award

nastynice
04-01-2018, 05:41 PM
Them spurs tho..

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 05:48 PM
Have an expected lottery team competing for a playoff spot in the west.

I think Simmons is a better player, I think Mitchell is having a better season.

Also Simmons isnít a rookie, I like him but I donít wanna see a non rookie winning that award

again make one argument... being in the west when the sixers are over 500 against the west and are 13/7 against west playoff teams kinda throws playing in the west out the window... SOS is a wash for both teams except the sixers have a better record and would be in the same exact position seeding wise right now if they were in the west.

kdspurman
04-01-2018, 05:51 PM
Them spurs tho..

Been much better the last few weeks. If they can manage to get that Kawhi guy back, even if it's in the playoffs , who knows. HCA is definitely important

nastynice
04-01-2018, 06:32 PM
again make one argument... being in the west when the sixers are over 500 against the west and are 13/7 against west playoff teams kinda throws playing in the west out the window... SOS is a wash for both teams except the sixers have a better record and would be in the same exact position seeding wise right now if they were in the west.

Yea but we knew the sixers were coming, top 3 picks for like 5 years, Simmons or not we knew this was coming and itís what we all expected. Maybe not THIS good, but we knew they were gonna start contending in the east over these next few years. When Hayward left Utah they were written off.

Take the rooks off both teams, philly is clearly superior. Itís not close. Mitchell is carrying his team, Simmons is playing with his

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 07:21 PM
Yea but we knew the sixers were coming, top 3 picks for like 5 years, Simmons or not we knew this was coming and itís what we all expected. Maybe not THIS good, but we knew they were gonna start contending in the east over these next few years. When Hayward left Utah they were written off.

Take the rooks off both teams, philly is clearly superior. Itís not close. Mitchell is carrying his team, Simmons is playing with his

Hmm.... So with this type of thinking I suppose you would agree that curry should give back his Mvps that he won then am I being correct?

If we are ignoring wins/Stats that both favor ben and curry and just going by the player with a lack of help on his team even though Mitchell has a pretty damn good team around him but if we are going by that recipe then I guess in your opinion curry doesnt deserve his past MVPs? I mean we KNEW the warriors were going to be great and AS GOOD as they were but clearly curry was just playing with his team and the insane amount of talent he had around him while other guys carried their teams... I mean this is what you are saying right?

nastynice
04-01-2018, 07:54 PM
Hmm.... So with this type of thinking I suppose you would agree that curry should give back his Mvps that he won then am I being correct?

If we are ignoring wins/Stats that both favor ben and curry and just going by the player with a lack of help on his team even though Mitchell has a pretty damn good team around him but if we are going by that recipe then I guess in your opinion curry doesnt deserve his past MVPs? I mean we KNEW the warriors were going to be great and AS GOOD as they were but clearly curry was just playing with his team and the insane amount of talent he had around him while other guys carried their teams... I mean this is what you are saying right?

No, thatís what youíre saying. You said what can Mitchell do that Simmons canít, I told you what it is, and itís a very major thing. Carry a team that was supposed to be an afterthought

You then mentioned that Simmonsí sixers also have a good record against the west, but that makes no diff to me because his team is way better, thatís not a good barometer to measure by. Thatís why I mentioned why itís unimpressive to use team play for Simmons, yet impressive to use it for Mitchell

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 08:01 PM
No, thatís what youíre saying. You said what can Mitchell do that Simmons canít, I told you what it is, and itís a very major thing. Carry a team that was supposed to be an afterthought

You then mentioned that Simmonsí sixers also have a good record against the west, but that makes no diff to me because his team is way better, thatís not a good barometer to measure by. Thatís why I mentioned why itís unimpressive to use team play for Simmons, yet impressive to use it for Mitchell

so do you think curry deserves his MVPS? You cant have your reasoning for Mitch as ROY and still think curry is the deserved MVP... You are saying Mitch is the Roy because of the team simmons has around him even though simmons is better in every area... Curry played on/for the best team ever. You will now say well the reason the warriors were the best team was because of how curry played... welcome to ben simmons and why the sixers are as good as they are as well. I will wait for a rebuttal.

zn23
04-01-2018, 08:09 PM
Jokic has posted 3 straight triple doubles vs. the Bucks, he has to be big for them tonight as well.

nastynice
04-01-2018, 08:24 PM
so do you think curry deserves his MVPS? You cant have your reasoning for Mitch as ROY and still think curry is the deserved MVP... You are saying Mitch is the Roy because of the team simmons has around him even though simmons is better in every area... Curry played on/for the best team ever. You will now say well the reason the warriors were the best team was because of how curry played... welcome to ben simmons and why the sixers are as good as they are as well. I will wait for a rebuttal.

Yes, curry deserves his mvps, and yes Mitchell deserves Roy. Having a good team around you doesnít disqualify you from either award, however when looking at the Roy right now, both players are very close, but for Mitchell to carry this team to the level he has as a rookie is even more impressive than what Simmons is doing. Simmons is not better in every area, I donít think he can really even shoot to be honest. Yes itís only one facet of the game, but itís the single most important one. After all, the winner is decided by which team scored more, not which had more assists

Also keep in mind, historically record has always played a role in mvp, not in roy. Matter of fact that was spoken of extensively during Curryís first mvp run, and how it helped tip things toward curry over harden

You donít have to wait anymore :)

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 08:31 PM
Okay, I change my mind and apologize. Ben Simmons is the ROTY.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 08:33 PM
Okay, I change my mind and apologize. Ben Simmons is the ROTY.

:laugh:

nastynice
04-01-2018, 08:40 PM
You guys are really sensitive when people have differing opinions huh. The best is flashbolt and his stats, lol

Hereís one thatís not an opinion. Bens Simmons ainít even a rookie. Thatís just a fact

Whoís your pick for second year player of the year? :rolleyes:

zn23
04-01-2018, 08:47 PM
No one devours a particular team the way Jokic devours the Bucks.

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 08:49 PM
:laugh:

Yeah, I'll admit when I'm wrong but I did think Donovan had a solid case. But what won it for me wasn't what Donovan didn't do but what Ben has been doing the past month. His AST/TO ratio is insane for many of these games. His average AST/TO the past month is 3.8. That's just insane. He's had games with 15 assists and 1 turnover and 0 turnover as well. Gotta give it up to him. I think Donovan would have won it in any other year but what Ben can do is just special.

Cal827
04-01-2018, 08:55 PM
No one devours a particular team the way Jokic devours the Bucks.

Except Lebron James against our Raptors :laugh2:.......:crying:

Cal827
04-01-2018, 08:55 PM
Also, Acy probably gonna get suspended for socking the referee (though likely unintentional, it was a pretty bad shot)

zn23
04-01-2018, 08:56 PM
You guys are really sensitive when people have differing opinions huh. The best is flashbolt and his stats, lol

Hereís one thatís not an opinion. Bens Simmons ainít even a rookie. Thatís just a fact

Whoís your pick for second year player of the year? :rolleyes:

I'm also against players getting ROY after missing an entire year. They had a whole year to workout with the the professionals, understand the plays, get reps, and also physically develop with a proper SnC coach.

tredigs
04-01-2018, 09:01 PM
Depending on the matchup, the Warriors are in serious danger of a 1st round upset if Curry really can't go. They are a wreck of a team without him..

Cal827
04-01-2018, 09:09 PM
tre, if you guys get this Minnesota team without Butler, you guys will be fine :laugh2:

How can you be down 30 at home vs a team right below you in the standings (well until this game ends) :pity:

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 09:12 PM
I'm also against players getting ROY after missing an entire year. They had a whole year to workout with the the professionals, understand the plays, get reps, and also physically develop with a proper SnC coach.

what about players that spend more than 1 year in collage or that came right out of highschool at one point? What about guys who are just flat out more ready now like a tatum compared to guys that arent as polished? People act like ben simmons played all year... basketball shape actually matters.. Hell someone could argue that simmons was technically ad a disadvantage sitting for as long as he did and not really playing in summer league or the preseason where is guys like tatum/ball etc run in the summer league and come in and run in the preseason.

zn23
04-01-2018, 09:16 PM
Except Lebron James against our Raptors :laugh2:.......:crying:

Raps have held LeBron in check for at least a game this year.

Jokic has posted 3 straight triple doubles vs. the Bucks, won all 3 games, and already has 17 points at halftime.

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 09:20 PM
what about players that spend more than 1 year in collage or that came right out of highschool at one point? What about guys who are just flat out more ready now like a tatum compared to guys that arent as polished? People act like ben simmons played all year... basketball shape actually matters.. Hell someone could argue that simmons was technically ad a disadvantage sitting for as long as he did and not really playing in summer league or the preseason where is guys like tatum/ball etc run in the summer league and come in and run in the preseason.

Think of the one year experience Ben had in the NBA as an internship. Yes.. an internship matters and does help. NBA and collegiate level are two different things. Many collegiate players end up being total trash in the NBA. I don't think we need a reminder of those players.

zn23
04-01-2018, 09:22 PM
what about players that spend more than 1 year in collage or that came right out of highschool at one point? What about guys who are just flat out more ready now like a tatum compared to guys that arent as polished? People act like ben simmons played all year... basketball shape actually matters.. Hell someone could argue that simmons was technically ad a disadvantage sitting for as long as he did and not really playing in summer league or the preseason where is guys like tatum/ball etc run in the summer league and come in and run in the preseason.

He was injured but he was still working out with a professional SnC coach, studying the plays, meeting with the coaches regularly, getting reps. That experience is invaluable and certainly gives those players an advantage. He had a whole year to study the playbook and to go to watch at the practices.

It's not to take away from him as I believe he's a superior player to Mitchell. But he had an advantage. I don't think he should be eligible for ROY.

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 09:27 PM
He was injured but he was still working out with a professional SnC coach, studying the plays, meeting with the coaches regularly, getting reps. That experience is invaluable and certainly gives those players an advantage. He had a whole year to study the playbook and to go to watch at the practices.

It's not to take away from him as I believe he's a superior player to Mitchell. But he had an advantage. I don't think he should be eligible for ROY.

Same think with Blake. These guys are working out with NBA management, coaches, trainers, players, etc., for an entire season. Heck, you could argue that just being around them is more beneficial than actually playing in the NBA. It's also important to bring up the off-the-court experience that is never mentioned. Simmons got used to traveling city to city, how to adjust his lifestyle, etc., I can see rookies who have never experienced this have difficulty not in the court but more-so outside the court. I've had out-of-state college friends who absolutely hated their first year being homesick and all that but after their first year, they said it was the best decision they've made.

zn23
04-01-2018, 09:38 PM
smh the Nuggets are now down Jamal Murray, Gary Harris and Wilson Chandler. Devin Harris is now running the point and he's way past his prime.

They've played poorly throughout the year, but they've also had some really bad luck at the worst times with injuries.

Cal827
04-01-2018, 09:49 PM
36-14 in the third quarter :laugh2: You're fighting for your playoff lives, your'e at home and you basically turn a 10 point lead into a 15 point deficit .... DAFUQ DENVER?

zn23
04-01-2018, 10:14 PM
36-14 in the third quarter :laugh2: You're fighting for your playoff lives, your'e at home and you basically turn a 10 point lead into a 15 point deficit .... DAFUQ DENVER?

I can't say I'm surprised... This has been a pattern all year.

At the end, it comes down to 2 main issues:

The nuggets have a very weak supporting cast. One of the worst in the league. So when the starters go out, they end up surrendering massive leads and it puts a huge amount of pressure on the starting lineup. The 2nd issue, probably the worst one, is that they can't defend the 3. The Bucks are shooting 50% from the 3.

tp13baby
04-01-2018, 10:26 PM
I can't say I'm surprised... This has been a pattern all year.

At the end, it comes down to 2 main issues:

The nuggets have a very weak supporting cast. One of the worst in the league. So when the starters go out, they end up surrendering massive leads and it puts a huge amount of pressure on the starting lineup. The 2nd issue, probably the worst one, is that they can't defend the 3. The Bucks are shooting 50% from the 3.

They donít play defense. They are soft as ****. And Malone lets Barton do what he wants. The second team is watching Barton go iso on offense. They run no offense and when Jokic leaves ball movement stops and no movement happens. They let random players go off.

Denver should move to their young core cause I do believe their veterans hold them back.

zn23
04-01-2018, 10:26 PM
Jokic did the best he could, but when you're playing with bums like this there's just not much you can do.

Will Barton's ill-advised layup attempt over Henson which got rejected. Jamal Murray travels. Torrey Craig misses a layup in transition. The at the end of the game Millsap dribbles the ball off his foot and it's a turnover.

You can't win with these guys.

If I'm Jokic I'm hoping that Denver picks up my 4th year option so I can become an unrestricted FA next year and get the hell away from here.

zn23
04-01-2018, 10:38 PM
This is it for the Nuggets. Overtime with Giannis fouled out, if you can't win it at home you don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

zn23
04-01-2018, 10:50 PM
Nuggets had no business winning this game at all.

An ill-advised inbound pass picked by Murray and then Terry fouls him shooting a 3 to tie the game.

They got very lucky here.

zn23
04-01-2018, 11:07 PM
I give Murray props for those clutch FTs. They should've lost, but sometimes you need to get lucky.

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 11:07 PM
this is nuts.. pistons are coming in crazy hot these past five games.. way too late likely.. you know what I want to see? Giannis vs Ben. Crazy fun.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2018, 11:21 PM
lol i am so sad there is only 6 games left... I really wish there was 20 because the bucks would end up not making the playoffs. How can giannis honestly be this good and they have issues getting an 8 seed out east? really think about that

FlashBolt
04-01-2018, 11:37 PM
lol i am so sad there is only 6 games left... I really wish there was 20 because the bucks would end up not making the playoffs. How can giannis honestly be this good and they have issues getting an 8 seed out east? really think about that

he was great starting the season and looked to be an early candidate for MVP but his inability to completely dominate games the way Durant, Harden, Curry, and Bron can will be why Giannis is not the best in the game. It's like he does garbage points. He has beast statlines and always end up losing despite decent teammates. I don't get it.

zn23
04-01-2018, 11:45 PM
he was great starting the season and looked to be an early candidate for MVP but his inability to completely dominate games the way Durant, Harden, Curry, and Bron can will be why Giannis is not the best in the game. It's like he does garbage points. He has beast statlines and always end up losing despite decent teammates. I don't get it.

Could be a bad combination of players. I'm not sure Giannis is the kind of player that those guys you mentioned are. He doesn't facilitate. He's more of an Anthony Davis than he is a LeBron James.

Saddletramp
04-02-2018, 01:19 AM
Mark me down on the "Second year players shouldn't be eligible for ROTY" side for basically every thing you guys have said. And been thinking it all year.

mgjohnson7851
04-02-2018, 02:09 AM
They donít play defense. They are soft as ****. And Malone lets Barton do what he wants. The second team is watching Barton go iso on offense. They run no offense and when Jokic leaves ball movement stops and no movement happens. They let random players go off.

Denver should move to their young core cause I do believe their veterans hold them back.Their vets absolutely hold them back. I'm so sick of Barton.

mgjohnson7851
04-02-2018, 02:10 AM
And Malone really isn't a good coach. How many times in the last month have we controlled the game in the first half, only to get blown out in the second half?

aman_13
04-02-2018, 02:46 AM
Could be a bad combination of players. I'm not sure Giannis is the kind of player that those guys you mentioned are. He doesn't facilitate. He's more of an Anthony Davis than he is a LeBron James.

Yeah that's where he has to improve. His assist percentage should be a lot higher considering he's got the same usage rate as LeBron and likely draws in just as much help defense when he's looking to attack. His team is underachieving and it's partly on him.

Cal827
04-02-2018, 07:51 AM
:laugh2: The Bucks LOST?! I know Giannis fouled out, but they were up like 10 with 3 minutes left... COME ON MAN

warfelg
04-02-2018, 08:44 AM
Yeah that's where he has to improve. His assist percentage should be a lot higher considering he's got the same usage rate as LeBron and likely draws in just as much help defense when he's looking to attack. His team is underachieving and it's partly on him.

It's got to be 1 of 3 things IMO:
1) He doesn't trust his teammates. Which he should because that team has some good shooters.

2) He thinks he can get his no matter what, so he has some blinders on.

3) His teammates don't know how to move when he has the ball because he doesn't move where they expect him to.

Number 2&3 are typically related some. But any way, this is a bit of a problem.

warfelg
04-02-2018, 09:06 AM
FWIW:

Thos that say Simmons isn't a rookie because of last year, I think that we got to point out something here:
You disagree with the NBA's rule. So you are taking it out on the player as opposed to saying the truth. Your using it as an excuse.

Ready, I'm going to type up how easy this is:

The NBA rule is stupid to let Simmons be a rookie, but of the guys that qualify Simmons is playing the best.

And this rule is never going to change. There's too many incentives in contract and endorsements to take that away. The players and the PA wouldn't go for that.

tp13baby
04-02-2018, 09:13 AM
FWIW:

Thos that say Simmons isn't a rookie because of last year, I think that we got to point out something here:
You disagree with the NBA's rule. So you are taking it out on the player as opposed to saying the truth. Your using it as an excuse.

Ready, I'm going to type up how easy this is:


And this rule is never going to change. There's too many incentives in contract and endorsements to take that away. The players and the PA wouldn't go for that.

I am not mad he is in it. But I will take Mitchell over Simmons. Simmons had a great season and if you believe the award is based off stats compared to who is more valuable to their team, Simmons is the pick. Mitchell is more valuable to the Jazz in my opinion.

warfelg
04-02-2018, 09:30 AM
I am not mad he is in it. But I will take Mitchell over Simmons. Simmons had a great season and if you believe the award is based off stats compared to who is more valuable to their team, Simmons is the pick. Mitchell is more valuable to the Jazz in my opinion.

Then your changing the parameters of the award from the best rookie to the most valuable rookie. Which Mitchell isnít that either.

ewing
04-02-2018, 09:47 AM
Then your changing the parameters of the award from the best rookie to the most valuable rookie. Which Mitchell isnít that either.

At least you can see anotherís perspective


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warfelg
04-02-2018, 09:53 AM
At least you can see anotherís perspective


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

More points. Thatís his perspective. But like Iíve pointed out before, they were a mid-lotto team when Gobert was out, Ingles is setting Jazz 3 point shooting records, and the last two months Rubio has been playing better.

Taking away Hood opened up more PT and Shots for Mitchell. Jae Crowder has been better since the trade. Favors has been playing better. Exum is playing better.

Yet a lot of that tends to get ignored.

Look, if Saric (more PPG last year) would have won over Brogdon (better all around numbers and more efficient) I would be a little more understanding of people saying Mitchell. But last year there was a shift that overall impact matters.

Ben is contributing more points to our team via his points and assists, along with playing near elite defense. Mitchell isnít playing at the high level of defense that Simmons is, and lately Mitchell has been chucking his way to his points.

I mean we bring up Mitchellís scoring...but heís only got 2 more PPG while taking 5 more shots. And hereís the irony of that: Donovan is a pretty much average 3 point shooter which is helping him score more. Could you imagine if Ben took those 5 more shots and they were from 3, and he was average?

TheDish87
04-02-2018, 09:55 AM
yea since when is the award most valuable rookie? also even if it was its probably still Simmons. The ROY race was close maybe a week or 2 of the season. Simmons is going to win by what should be a pretty large margin, it should be unanimous. There arent many seasons Mitchell would lose the ROY but he happens to losing to the one having an all time great and historic rookie season.

warfelg
04-02-2018, 10:06 AM
And I got another question:

If we eliminate Simmons from contention because he was in the nba last year, shouldnít we do the same to Euro players? They played professionally, sometimes for years before coming. What about the kids that go to another league? The kid going to the G-League?

Should we DQ all of them for having professional training, S&C, travel? Only make the award for rookies coming from the NCAA and in their first year of the NBA regardless of if they play or not?

STRIKERC
04-02-2018, 10:45 AM
The "he was in the NBA last year" argument is stupid.

Has the NBA changed it's rules regarding who it considers a rookie or are you Simmons detractors changing it to fit your choice for ROY?

The NBA says Simmons is a rookie so guess what, no one cares what you armchair experts think a rookie should be.

ewing
04-02-2018, 10:50 AM
More points. Thatís his perspective. But like Iíve pointed out before, they were a mid-lotto team when Gobert was out, Ingles is setting Jazz 3 point shooting records, and the last two months Rubio has been playing better.

Taking away Hood opened up more PT and Shots for Mitchell. Jae Crowder has been better since the trade. Favors has been playing better. Exum is playing better.

Yet a lot of that tends to get ignored.

Look, if Saric (more PPG last year) would have won over Brogdon (better all around numbers and more efficient) I would be a little more understanding of people saying Mitchell. But last year there was a shift that overall impact matters.

Ben is contributing more points to our team via his points and assists, along with playing near elite defense. Mitchell isnít playing at the high level of defense that Simmons is, and lately Mitchell has been chucking his way to his points.

I mean we bring up Mitchellís scoring...but heís only got 2 more PPG while taking 5 more shots. And hereís the irony of that: Donovan is a pretty much average 3 point shooter which is helping him score more. Could you imagine if Ben took those 5 more shots and they were from 3, and he was average?

I think the rule should be changed. I think the way it is Ben should be rookie of the year. I think Philly fans are obnoxious


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ewing
04-02-2018, 10:53 AM
And I got another question:

If we eliminate Simmons from contention because he was in the nba last year, shouldnít we do the same to Euro players? They played professionally, sometimes for years before coming. What about the kids that go to another league? The kid going to the G-League?

Should we DQ all of them for having professional training, S&C, travel? Only make the award for rookies coming from the NCAA and in their first year of the NBA regardless of if they play or not?

No just guys that were in the nba bc they are not rookies to the NBA. Coming from another country where rules, culture, language, was different is probably an even bigger adjustment for a lot of guys. Coming from the G league is like coming from the minors. Stop pretending not to get it.

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FlashBolt
04-02-2018, 12:08 PM
Why do people compare USG% to ball dominance? It's not the same thing.

Lil Rhody
04-02-2018, 12:13 PM
I think the rule should be changed. I think the way it is Ben should be rookie of the year. I think Philly fans are obnoxious


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPost of the year

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

warfelg
04-02-2018, 12:49 PM
Why do people compare USG% to ball dominance? It's not the same thing.

Because itís the lazy way to talk about players. The NBAs player tracking stats are so awesome to look at thing that give a much clearer picture.

Like whatís fun:
Mitchell is second on the Jazz in touches (61.5 per game), 5th in ave seconds per touch (4.29 sec per touch), 5th in dribbles per touch (3.82), 3rd in points per touch (.331).

I think thatís much better picture than his 28.8 usg%. His high usg% makes him sound like a ball hog. The stats say he does a lot with it, but heís not a primary on ball guy.

Compare that to another rookie:
Lonzo Ball leads the lakers in touches per game (80.8 vs Ingramís 56.4), 6th in seconds per touch (3.82), 5th in dribbles per touch (3.18), 19th (on the season) in points per touch (0.126).

His usg% is 17.2, which makes you think he doesnít do much with touching the ball, but in fact he does more with on ball that most any other Laker.

One thing I with they included was assists per touch. Right now itís all based on points per touch.

warfelg
04-02-2018, 12:52 PM
No just guys that were in the nba bc they are not rookies to the NBA. Coming from another country where rules, culture, language, was different is probably an even bigger adjustment for a lot of guys. Coming from the G league is like coming from the minors. Stop pretending not to get it.

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Iím not not pretending to not get it. Iím bringing up conversation points. Being a professional is being a professional.

If they were to change the rule, all those things would be part of the conversation about changing the rule.

To add:
If we did that I think that we need to talk about game minimums or minute minimums for MVP, DPOY, All-NBA, start/minute max for 6th man.

aman_13
04-02-2018, 01:24 PM
Why do people compare USG% to ball dominance? It's not the same thing.

Its not but there is a connection between usage and ball dominance. That wasn't the point I was making though.

I referenced LeBron because both like to attack the paint and make use of their physical advantage over their opponents. It's just Giannis doesn't make teams pay for over helping like LeBron does.

FlashBolt
04-02-2018, 01:53 PM
Its not but there is a connection between usage and ball dominance. That wasn't the point I was making though.

I referenced LeBron because both like to attack the paint and make use of their physical advantage over their opponents. It's just Giannis doesn't make teams pay for over helping like LeBron does.

Well, the USG% isn't based on ball dominance but it does help in evaluating the shots a player would take while out there for their teammates. In terms of ball possession and time, though, I don't think Giannis holds onto the ball as much as LeBron does. There are times where LeBron will eat up holding the ball and wait for shooters to get open (through picks and such) and then get the assist to a wide open shooter. It's not a knock on LeBron but just how that team is designed to play. The problem with the Bucks is that they don't have enough shooters, Giannis midrange game sucks, and he pounds the ball too much while not generating enough plays for his teammates so they're left just watching. When Giannis has the ball, no one on his team knows what to do. And that's largely the fault of Giannis as well because he doesn't give his teammates the confidence and motive to get open. Giannis needs to work on two things this offseason.

1) Get a shot.
2) Work on his mental part of the game. He's still very young so penalizing him for mental errors isn't fair but really, this guy has no excuse not to be the best player in the game in the future. He's already dominating it from an individual level. He needs to figure out how he can help his teammates and those two above will help.

Saddletramp
04-02-2018, 02:35 PM
I think the rule should be changed. I think the way it is Ben should be rookie of the year. I think Philly fans are obnoxious


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This.




No just guys that were in the nba bc they are not rookies to the NBA. Coming from another country where rules, culture, language, was different is probably an even bigger adjustment for a lot of guys. Coming from the G league is like coming from the minors. Stop pretending not to get it.

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And this.

nastynice
04-02-2018, 03:34 PM
Yea, Simmons technically IS a rookie, I just think itís a bs technicality. The guy has had an entire year of nba training and regimen. Thatís a MAJOR leg up on the competition

Not to take anything away from Simmons, I think most people are expecting him to have a stretch of elite caliber play during his career, he looks absolutely amazing out there. But in a tight race, I rather see Mitchell get it, heís an actual rookie and he is having a phenomenal season in his own right. Biggest thing being that he is a true rookie

FlashBolt
04-02-2018, 03:36 PM
Could be a bad combination of players. I'm not sure Giannis is the kind of player that those guys you mentioned are. He doesn't facilitate. He's more of an Anthony Davis than he is a LeBron James.

I agree. Those guys are great individual players but they need a solid team to compliment their lack of ability in making others better. That means Giannis needs a guy like CP3 to handle primary ball duties. Same with AD. If Giannis is the primary player to get the team shots, your team won't win many games. But if you add CP3 to that mix? Cha ching.

TheDish87
04-02-2018, 04:17 PM
Yea, Simmons technically IS a rookie, I just think itís a bs technicality. The guy has had an entire year of nba training and regimen. Thatís a MAJOR leg up on the competition

Not to take anything away from Simmons, I think most people are expecting him to have a stretch of elite caliber play during his career, he looks absolutely amazing out there. But in a tight race, I rather see Mitchell get it, heís an actual rookie and he is having a phenomenal season in his own right. Biggest thing being that he is a true rookie

not technically, hes is a rookie. its not a tight ROY race, there is no race. never really was. The rest of your logic is crap and not how it works. But you are right about Mitchell having a great season, not phenomenal bucz, well, thats what Ben is, but great none the less.

Lil Rhody
04-02-2018, 04:52 PM
1>13 should be happening. I really wish the Celtics had the #1 that year

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More-Than-Most
04-02-2018, 06:28 PM
We are obnoxious because we have had to deal with constant trash from NBA fans for years because we were doing something all other teams throughout history have done except we werent hiding it... When each player went down we never heard the end of it and were the butt of all jokes... When Okafor was trash we never heard the end of it... even when we tried to win by getting bynum and it blowing up in our faces we never heard the end of it but it became insufferable over the years for playing the game and beating the system... The game being try to win even if you have no shot at it because of super teams and the system being the super teams.

We took it for years and rightfully so... Now that it comes together you can bet your *** we are going to be one annoying fandom across the internet nomatter the outcome because nomatter the outcome our fanbase is going to be scrutinized so we should just live it up.

More-Than-Most
04-02-2018, 06:32 PM
As far as seeing someone elses perspective... I am all for seeing others perspective IF THINGS ARE REMOTELY CLOSE but they arent... There is quite literally no argument for someone over simmons. If there was I would gladly take it on the chin but the only people trying to justify Mitch who is having a damn good rookie season are those that are doing so because of the rules which ben has no control over and those who are just being hypocritical with no leg to stand on.. see the arguments a few pages back which i still find utterly hilarious.

More-Than-Most
04-02-2018, 06:35 PM
Yea, Simmons technically IS a rookie, I just think itís a bs technicality. The guy has had an entire year of nba training and regimen. Thatís a MAJOR leg up on the competition

Not to take anything away from Simmons, I think most people are expecting him to have a stretch of elite caliber play during his career, he looks absolutely amazing out there. But in a tight race, I rather see Mitchell get it, heís an actual rookie and he is having a phenomenal season in his own right. Biggest thing being that he is a true rookie

and this is my argument... Id have 0 issues with this IF IT WAS A TIGHT RACE... It isnt. :shrug:


Oh and I dont give a crap about the actual ROY... Hell the way simmons got mad because he got snubbed from the all star game and has been obliterating the league I have said all along I hope he gets robbed of the roy as well... The ROY is meaningless but the arguments in here to justify the roy are quite hilarious.

aman_13
04-02-2018, 06:37 PM
Well, the USG% isn't based on ball dominance but it does help in evaluating the shots a player would take while out there for their teammates. In terms of ball possession and time, though, I don't think Giannis holds onto the ball as much as LeBron does. There are times where LeBron will eat up holding the ball and wait for shooters to get open (through picks and such) and then get the assist to a wide open shooter. It's not a knock on LeBron but just how that team is designed to play. The problem with the Bucks is that they don't have enough shooters, Giannis midrange game sucks, and he pounds the ball too much while not generating enough plays for his teammates so they're left just watching. When Giannis has the ball, no one on his team knows what to do. And that's largely the fault of Giannis as well because he doesn't give his teammates the confidence and motive to get open. Giannis needs to work on two things this offseason.

1) Get a shot.
2) Work on his mental part of the game. He's still very young so penalizing him for mental errors isn't fair but really, this guy has no excuse not to be the best player in the game in the future. He's already dominating it from an individual level. He needs to figure out how he can help his teammates and those two above will help.

They run a lot through Giannis but yeah he doesn't hold the ball as much as LeBron. Good post. They have to figure out how to make the most of the help he pulls in.

nastynice
04-02-2018, 06:40 PM
not technically, hes is a rookie. its not a tight ROY race, there is no race. never really was. The rest of your logic is crap and not how it works. But you are right about Mitchell having a great season, not phenomenal bucz, well, thats what Ben is, but great none the less.

Fultz is a rookie today. He was drafted one year after Simmons.

Maybe to sixers fans itís not close, but to all other b-ball fans it is, and most media hosts Iíve seen are actually leaning Mitchell. The only people who think theres no race is sixers fans I guess

nastynice
04-02-2018, 06:41 PM
As far as seeing someone elses perspective... I am all for seeing others perspective IF THINGS ARE REMOTELY CLOSE but they arent... There is quite literally no argument for someone over simmons. If there was I would gladly take it on the chin but the only people trying to justify Mitch who is having a damn good rookie season are those that are doing so because of the rules which ben has no control over and those who are just being hypocritical with no leg to stand on.. see the arguments a few pages back which i still find utterly hilarious.

Mitchell leading the jazz to the playoffs is actually a great argument. Wether itís good enough to get him the award, weíll see, but itís a great argument either way

More-Than-Most
04-02-2018, 06:50 PM
Mitchell leading the jazz to the playoffs is actually a great argument. Wether itís good enough to get him the award, weíll see, but itís a great argument either way

you do realize gobert has been the most important part of that team considering he will/should win the DPOY award right? Like he legit is that much better than every other defender. You act like Gobert/Rubio/Favors etc etc etc are doing nothing which is hilarious to me and completely kicks your argument in the ***.

ewing
04-02-2018, 08:37 PM
you do realize gobert has been the most important part of that team considering he will/should win the DPOY award right? Like he legit is that much better than every other defender. You act like Gobert/Rubio/Favors etc etc etc are doing nothing which is hilarious to me and completely kicks your argument in the ***.

Rudy is a heck of a player. Both guys are the second best player on good teams. Ben has done more imo and deserves the award


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tp13baby
04-02-2018, 08:45 PM
you do realize gobert has been the most important part of that team considering he will/should win the DPOY award right? Like he legit is that much better than every other defender. You act like Gobert/Rubio/Favors etc etc etc are doing nothing which is hilarious to me and completely kicks your argument in the ***.

Well if you go by stats yeah Simmons is the guy. Check my answer in any forum and I always argue the most valuable to the team. Mitchell is the go to guy on the Jazz. Arguing Ingles cause he shoots 3s. Hilarious. Gobert isnít an offensive threat. Favors is a mid range guy that teams donít really game plan for. Simmons is the second option no question. Mitchell ranks in the top 6 for clutch fg% in the NBA. Letís highly tout Simmons defense but look at defensive rating 101.5 vs 101.3. Simmons is not the number 1 option and I truly believe his supporting cast offensively is much better than the Jazz. Not to mention that sorry as bottom feeding east. The west is better than the east no questions asked. Utah wasnít expected to compete for home court for a top 5 seed in the loaded west. The last six rookies to score 20 plus on a 40 win team or better, Melo,Shaq, DRob, Person and Larry Bird. Pretty incredible considering the conference in terms of talent and him being the number one option on a playoff team. Simmons gets the east where every night comp is nothing like the west.

The unanimous is hilarious. But I am really not surprised coming from Warfleg who claims Roco is a better player than Harris or MTM thinking Saric is the next god and all star.

Simmons wins based off stats, Mitchell is the more valuable rookie. Buts itís definitely a debate you can make and not a landslide unless itís about them triple dubs. But completely agree 6ers fans have become obnoxious and any argument against there team is completely wrong and their 15 players are the top 16 in the league including Lebron.

warfelg
04-02-2018, 09:05 PM
We bring up Ingles 3's because it's something opposing defenses need to respect.

No one is acting like Gobert is a good offensive player. What we've said is they are a different defensive team because of him. That makes them better.

I have RoCo over Harris because RoCo is a better defender. Much better. And unless I'm mistaken in the NBA you play offense and defense and that's part of a better player.

Also look in the ROY thread, where I bring up point contributed. Simmons is closer to Harden than Mithell is to Simmons. In case you need a refresher:

So I had a bit of fun with this metric I found called "Points Created". It is measured by:

Points Created= PTS + AST*(2-VBP) + (REB + STL + BLK)*VBP -(FGMiss + FTMiss + TOV)*VBP Ė 0.5*VBP*PF
VBP - Value of basketball possession, taking the average for the league of points per possession, and dividing it by a factor of 100. Effectively, how many points the average team scores in a possession. This year that number is 1.08.

Everything else is laid out there as to what you need to calculate this.

Points Created for Ben (season): 1503.52
Points Created for Mitchell (season): 991.96

Both teams have played 71 games. So:

Points Created per game for Ben: 21.18
Points Created per game for Mitchell: 13.97

What this does is really takes in everything that a player does and finds a way to evaluate how much a player's total skillset effects the given team.

For comparison sake, here's LBJ and Harden:
LBJ: 2275.2
Harden: 1829.22

So isn't the guy contributing more points more valuable?

There's also:

The Versatility Index, which was designed by John Hollinger, is a metric that measures a playerís ability to produce in more than one statistic. The metric uses points, assists, and rebounds. The average player will score around a five on the index, while top players score above 10.

Versatility Index Formula=[(PPG)*(RPG)*APG)]^(0.333)

Ben is 7th in the NBA. Mitchell is 159th.

But points am I right?

ewing
04-02-2018, 09:18 PM
We bring up Ingles 3's because it's something opposing defenses need to respect.

No one is acting like Gobert is a good offensive player. What we've said is they are a different defensive team because of him. That makes them better.

I have RoCo over Harris because RoCo is a better defender. Much better. And unless I'm mistaken in the NBA you play offense and defense and that's part of a better player.

Also look in the ROY thread, where I bring up point contributed. Simmons is closer to Harden than Mithell is to Simmons. In case you need a refresher:


So isn't the guy contributing more points more valuable?

There's also:


Ben is 7th in the NBA. Mitchell is 159th.

But points am I right?

Right


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ewing
04-03-2018, 06:02 AM
We are obnoxious because we have had to deal with constant trash from NBA fans for years because we were doing something all other teams throughout history have done except we werent hiding it... When each player went down we never heard the end of it and were the butt of all jokes... When Okafor was trash we never heard the end of it... even when we tried to win by getting bynum and it blowing up in our faces we never heard the end of it but it became insufferable over the years for playing the game and beating the system... The game being try to win even if you have no shot at it because of super teams and the system being the super teams.

We took it for years and rightfully so... Now that it comes together you can bet your *** we are going to be one annoying fandom across the internet nomatter the outcome because nomatter the outcome our fanbase is going to be scrutinized so we should just live it up.

Obnoxious and you blame everyone else for your faults


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TheDish87
04-03-2018, 08:46 AM
Fultz is a rookie today. He was drafted one year after Simmons.

Maybe to sixers fans itís not close, but to all other b-ball fans it is, and most media hosts Iíve seen are actually leaning Mitchell. The only people who think theres no race is sixers fans I guess

Vegas doesnt think its a race and no most, if not all media still dislike the Sixers and discredit us whenever they can find a way to justify and theyre running out of reasons. Mitchell is only better a 3pt shooting lol

TheDish87
04-03-2018, 08:46 AM
Mitchell leading the jazz to the playoffs is actually a great argument. Wether itís good enough to get him the award, weíll see, but itís a great argument either way

oh boy.

TheDish87
04-03-2018, 08:50 AM
Well if you go by stats yeah Simmons is the guy.

this is all you needed to post. the rest of your post was subjective anyway but this is how ROY works.

nastynice
04-03-2018, 02:10 PM
and this is my argument... Id have 0 issues with this IF IT WAS A TIGHT RACE... It isnt. :shrug:


Oh and I dont give a crap about the actual ROY... Hell the way simmons got mad because he got snubbed from the all star game and has been obliterating the league I have said all along I hope he gets robbed of the roy as well... The ROY is meaningless but the arguments in here to justify the roy are quite hilarious.

I find it odd that you got this much resistance toward my posts. Mitchell is doing stuff Simmons isn't, his team is having a more impressive season than Philly and it's because of him. What there is to take offense to that, I haven't the slightest clue

nastynice
04-03-2018, 02:13 PM
you do realize gobert has been the most important part of that team considering he will/should win the DPOY award right? Like he legit is that much better than every other defender. You act like Gobert/Rubio/Favors etc etc etc are doing nothing which is hilarious to me and completely kicks your argument in the ***.

Yea, so where did you have Utah after Hayward left? Where did everyone else?

lol, I knew it was a matter of time before someone brought up that weak *** DPOY argument, I thought it was gonna be stat/accolade master FlashBolt tho

I never said the guy was playing one on five, I said he took an expected lottery team to the playoffs in the west.

zn23
04-03-2018, 04:29 PM
not technically, hes is a rookie. its not a tight ROY race, there is no race. never really was. The rest of your logic is crap and not how it works. But you are right about Mitchell having a great season, not phenomenal bucz, well, thats what Ben is, but great none the less.

No one's arguing technicalities, he is a rookie by NBA rules, the question is SHOULD he be considered a rookie?

People here have laid strong arguments about why he shouldn't be considered one. Or at the very least why Donovan Mitchell has been more impressive considering the advantages Simmons has had.

Also, Is ROY really that important? It gives us something to debate, but as far as an award goes it's not that big of a deal.

TheDish87
04-03-2018, 04:40 PM
none of these subjective arguments matter. i swear people forget Blake won ROY after red shirting. This isnt something new.

in no way is ROY important (see MCW) but its still fun to debate and we have a clear cut, no doubt about it leader and it would be a bad look to see him get robbed when hes having such an historic season, not just for a rookie either. ROY is and always has been a very simple award. Who had the best rookie season? Ben Simmons.

zn23
04-03-2018, 04:43 PM
And I got another question:

If we eliminate Simmons from contention because he was in the nba last year, shouldnít we do the same to Euro players? They played professionally, sometimes for years before coming. What about the kids that go to another league? The kid going to the G-League?

Should we DQ all of them for having professional training, S&C, travel? Only make the award for rookies coming from the NCAA and in their first year of the NBA regardless of if they play or not?

No we shouldn't because it's totally different.

Let's say Simmons didn't get injured but instead, after he got drafted, he decided he wanted to play in Europe or Asia or wherever for a year before he entered the league. Similar to what happened with Jokic, who got drafted in 2014 but came over in 2015.

The difference there is that he's not part of the team. He's not in meetings with the coaches and management, he's not learning the plays, doing press conferences, going through drills, traveling with the team and as FlashBolt pointed out the "off-the-court experience" ie. traveling to different cities and and adjusting to the lifestyle on an NBA level which is way bigger than the European or Asian level. That's without mentioning the strength and conditioning and physically maturing. I get it, you can get that anywhere, but that's just a small point compared to everything else.

That gives him a huge advantage over someone like Mitchell who just entered the league like all the other rookies and had to learn how to adjust to everything.

nastynice
04-03-2018, 07:22 PM
none of these subjective arguments matter. i swear people forget Blake won ROY after red shirting. This isnt something new.

in no way is ROY important (see MCW) but its still fun to debate and we have a clear cut, no doubt about it leader and it would be a bad look to see him get robbed when hes having such an historic season, not just for a rookie either. ROY is and always has been a very simple award. Who had the best rookie season? Ben Simmons.

Simmons didn't contribute at all his rookie year. Simmons 2nd year is arguably better than Mitchell's first, but that would be more geared toward a rookie/2nd yr award, not a strictly rookie award

Good point about Blake tho, and the precedent set. I think his award is just as bull **** as Simmons if he gets this one, lol

TheDish87
04-04-2018, 07:53 AM
do you also have issues with college players being red shirt freshman when they are actually a soph?

TheDish87
04-04-2018, 07:54 AM
No we shouldn't because it's totally different.

Let's say Simmons didn't get injured but instead, after he got drafted, he decided he wanted to play in Europe or Asia or wherever for a year before he entered the league. Similar to what happened with Jokic, who got drafted in 2014 but came over in 2015.

The difference there is that he's not part of the team. He's not in meetings with the coaches and management, he's not learning the plays, doing press conferences, going through drills, traveling with the team and as FlashBolt pointed out the "off-the-court experience" ie. traveling to different cities and and adjusting to the lifestyle on an NBA level which is way bigger than the European or Asian level. That's without mentioning the strength and conditioning and physically maturing. I get it, you can get that anywhere, but that's just a small point compared to everything else.

That gives him a huge advantage over someone like Mitchell who just entered the league like all the other rookies and had to learn how to adjust to everything.

**** you nailed it. doing press conferences gave Simmons a huge advantage this season!

warfelg
04-04-2018, 08:27 AM
No we shouldn't because it's totally different.

Let's say Simmons didn't get injured but instead, after he got drafted, he decided he wanted to play in Europe or Asia or wherever for a year before he entered the league. Similar to what happened with Jokic, who got drafted in 2014 but came over in 2015.

The difference there is that he's not part of the team. He's not in meetings with the coaches and management, he's not learning the plays, doing press conferences, going through drills, traveling with the team and as FlashBolt pointed out the "off-the-court experience" ie. traveling to different cities and and adjusting to the lifestyle on an NBA level which is way bigger than the European or Asian level. That's without mentioning the strength and conditioning and physically maturing. I get it, you can get that anywhere, but that's just a small point compared to everything else.

That gives him a huge advantage over someone like Mitchell who just entered the league like all the other rookies and had to learn how to adjust to everything.

So I get the NBA is on a bigger scale, but if the issue with Simmons being eligible is that he was a professional the year before; so were euro/china players and g-league.

Like I said I get NBA scale, but dealing with travel is dealing with travel. Working out in a dedicated S&C program is there in all cases.

And something on the bolded: Both guys are 21 FYI. Physically maturing theoretically happened. Yes I get there's more getting stronger that could have happened since entering the league.

But here's my honest opinion:
If you want to change the NBA ROY to be eligible only to guys that are in there first year regardless of where they came from or they missed time, then IMO you have to come up with minimums for things like DPOY, All-NBA, MVP.

In short I get the people what have a problem with the NBA rule of as long as you haven't played a game you are considered a rookie, but I didn't see these comments last year when Embiid was playing. But under NBA rules Simmons is a rookie. So saying that Simmons shouldn't win because of how you personally feel about the rule, I feel (and would feel this way about any player in this situation) is wrong, and if any writer says he didn't vote for Simmons in protest of that rule, I hope they have their vote taken away.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 08:40 AM
So I get the NBA is on a bigger scale, but if the issue with Simmons being eligible is that he was a professional the year before; so were euro/china players and g-league.

Like I said I get NBA scale, but dealing with travel is dealing with travel. Working out in a dedicated S&C program is there in all cases.

And something on the bolded: Both guys are 21 FYI. Physically maturing theoretically happened. Yes I get there's more getting stronger that could have happened since entering the league.

But here's my honest opinion:
If you want to change the NBA ROY to be eligible only to guys that are in there first year regardless of where they came from or they missed time, then IMO you have to come up with minimums for things like DPOY, All-NBA, MVP.

In short I get the people what have a problem with the NBA rule of as long as you haven't played a game you are considered a rookie, but I didn't see these comments last year when Embiid was playing. But under NBA rules Simmons is a rookie. So saying that Simmons shouldn't win because of how you personally feel about the rule, I feel (and would feel this way about any player in this situation) is wrong, and if any writer says he didn't vote for Simmons in protest of that rule, I hope they have their vote taken away.

I agree. If the rule says you're a rookie and if you have the best season, you are the ROTY, it should be based off that and only that. But it's a perfectly fine to say it should be an award for players who were drafted that season as well. And I think that's their underlying argument: The rule should be for those who have been drafted that season. At such a young age coming into the league, it's all mental for some of these guys because they all have talent. A year of witnessing how the game is actually played in/out the court is very important. And traveling. Donovan wasn't traveling the way NBA players do. It's a completely different lifestyle to adjust to while also playing basketball full-time.

warfelg
04-04-2018, 08:51 AM
I agree. If the rule says you're a rookie and if you have the best season, you are the ROTY, it should be based off that and only that. But it's a perfectly fine to say it should be an award for players who were drafted that season as well. And I think that's their underlying argument: The rule should be for those who have been drafted that season. At such a young age coming into the league, it's all mental for some of these guys because they all have talent. A year of witnessing how the game is actually played in/out the court is very important. And traveling. Donovan wasn't traveling the way NBA players do. It's a completely different lifestyle to adjust to while also playing basketball full-time.

And I get that and think it's fair.....but you should vote off what the rule is, not what you want it to be.

Sometimes I wonder if Mitchell wasn't scoring this much would people be saying the same things. Because last year when Embiid was massively outplaying other rookies no one said anything about him being around the team for 2 years. More about the rest games and lack of back to backs (which I was understanding). I don't recall anyone saying anything about Blake. I personally think its because in those years no one drafted that season was all that close to them.

So I get not agreeing with the rule. I just have a problem with people saying they vote for someone else because they don't agree with the rule. I don't agree with speed limits on some roads. Doesn't mean I can go whatever speed I want and say it's because the limit should be something else.

TheDish87
04-04-2018, 08:54 AM
lets just give Brogdons sham of a ROY to Simmons and let Mitchell have this year. everyone is happy.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 09:22 AM
And I get that and think it's fair.....but you should vote off what the rule is, not what you want it to be.

Sometimes I wonder if Mitchell wasn't scoring this much would people be saying the same things. Because last year when Embiid was massively outplaying other rookies no one said anything about him being around the team for 2 years. More about the rest games and lack of back to backs (which I was understanding). I don't recall anyone saying anything about Blake. I personally think its because in those years no one drafted that season was all that close to them.

So I get not agreeing with the rule. I just have a problem with people saying they vote for someone else because they don't agree with the rule. I don't agree with speed limits on some roads. Doesn't mean I can go whatever speed I want and say it's because the limit should be something else.

No one said anything about Embiid because the rookies last year sucked azz.
And Mitchell is scoring cause his team needs it. It's not like it is empty scoring. He leads the team in points by a wide margin because no one else can score like he can. That's a lot of pressure for a rookie in the West where you are playing elite level guards more frequently.

warfelg
04-04-2018, 09:26 AM
No one said anything about Embiid because the rookies last year sucked azz.
And Mitchell is scoring cause his team needs it. It's not like it is empty scoring. He leads the team in points by a wide margin because no one else can score like he can. That's a lot of pressure for a rookie in the West where you are playing elite level guards more frequently.

He also takes nearly 10 shots more a game than their second leading scorer.

FlashBolt
04-04-2018, 10:21 AM
He also takes nearly 10 shots more a game than their second leading scorer.

Cause I've told you: He's their best scorer. The rest of the guys aren't capable of scoring the way he can. They are more situational shot takers. These guys are taking different shots.

warfelg
04-04-2018, 10:40 AM
10 more shots is getting him 7 more points as their leading scorer. I'm sure many guys on a team could outscore anyone else if they took 10 more shots than the next guy.

nastynice
04-04-2018, 01:35 PM
10 more shots is getting him 7 more points as their leading scorer. I'm sure many guys on a team could outscore anyone else if they took 10 more shots than the next guy.

Shows how much they lean on him and how much a load he's carrying.

nastynice
04-04-2018, 01:37 PM
do you also have issues with college players being red shirt freshman when they are actually a soph?

Males no diff to me. Would you have an issue if demar derozan won rookie of the year award this year?

TheDish87
04-04-2018, 01:48 PM
lol thats what youre gonna do now?

did you have an issue with Blake winning ROY?

nastynice
04-04-2018, 03:16 PM
lol thats what youre gonna do now?

did you have an issue with Blake winning ROY?

I didn't pay attention to Roy those years but yes, obviously if the guy was drafted one year and won Roy for a completely diff year then yes, there is obviously an issue as that's a non rookie winning a rookie award which makes no sense.

TheDish87
04-04-2018, 03:37 PM
it makes sense. youre not a rookie unless you actually play a minute on the court.

nastynice
04-04-2018, 05:25 PM
it makes sense. youre not a rookie unless you actually play a minute on the court.

If that were the case then after philly picked Fultz with their #1 pick Simmons would have been available for any other team to draft. If heís not available for anyone to draft because heís already on a team then heís not a rookie

lol. We not gonna see eye to eye on this, should be pretty obvious by now..

Truth be told, Iím really not invested in this award much, it definitely stands out to me that a non rookie is in this convo and so my opinion is that thatís bs. But whatever, hell they can give Embiid the 2018 rookie of the year award, makes no diff to me

TheDish87
04-05-2018, 07:55 AM
why do you keep making things up? this is a complicated concept to grasp.