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View Full Version : Who's going to man up and predict this is the year LeBron doesn't make the finals?



LOb0
03-13-2018, 03:23 PM
I'm in. Don't like this team. Reminds me of an old Cavs team of role players that get you through a regular season but fold come playoff time.

FlashBolt
03-13-2018, 03:27 PM
Until LeBron actually loses in the East, I'm taking him every time. Raptors are a completely different team (in a bad way) come playoffs and Celtics are missing two huge pieces with Hayward/Smart. I think one of those teams will get knocked off in the 2nd round, tbh. IMO, Raptors would get smacked by Sixers.

IndyRealist
03-13-2018, 03:29 PM
I just think this team doesn't have time to build an identity, and Lue isn't a very good coach. I'd like their chances better next year than this year.

LOb0
03-13-2018, 03:31 PM
Until LeBron actually loses in the East, I'm taking him every time. Raptors are a completely different team (in a bad way) come playoffs and Celtics are missing two huge pieces with Hayward/Smart. I think one of those teams will get knocked off in the 2nd round, tbh. IMO, Raptors would get smacked by Sixers.

That's the only thing making me hesitate is how god awful the East is. But I think this Cavs team is even worse than we actually can see.

Driven
03-13-2018, 03:39 PM
Has any team with a negative point differential ever made it to the Finals? Not that the Cavs will necessarily finish with a negative differential, but they have one right now.

Jeffy25
03-13-2018, 03:41 PM
I think he'll make it back, personally.

Celtics and Raptors could beat him, same with 76ers. But Bron is just too much basketball player and this is an athletic team that is learning to play with him.

WaDe03
03-13-2018, 04:10 PM
Keep guessing every year and you all will be right eventually.

LOb0
03-13-2018, 04:17 PM
Keep guessing every year and you all will be right eventually.

I've picked LeBron's team since 2009 to make the finals.

LaVar Ball
03-13-2018, 04:20 PM
Kinda reminds me of 2009 and 2010 Cavs roster

KnicksorBust
03-13-2018, 04:28 PM
I have a year long sig bet with IKH about this.

mnatiq
03-13-2018, 04:54 PM
At the moment, Raptors are the best team in the East but that can change come playoff time like we have seen before. That being said I think this is the year the raps beat the cavs. Just a feeling.

TheDish87
03-13-2018, 05:08 PM
lol man up?

europagnpilgrim
03-13-2018, 05:11 PM
I'm in. Don't like this team. Reminds me of an old Cavs team of role players that get you through a regular season but fold come playoff time.

I manned up way whiles ago when I predicted Lebron would reach a Finals by year 3 upon his nba arrival, then I said he would go again by 2010 after 07' beatdown, and I was damn close in 09', now I have been right since 11' and I said before this is the most vulnerable they have been since the Irving trade, I had them at 95+% before trade and after they slipped to around 60-70 %, maybe around 55% as we speak since they just don't have another true legit horse and I don't think Love is that guy as a legit 2nd option to really have teams scared since the other teams 2nd option can match him or do better as in a Lowry/Bledsoe/Horford etc, Irving for damn sure was and Love played a damn strong 3rd leg, Love as a second option doesn't scare teams, the big 3 they had was literally a cake walk in the east because of the modern day AI they had rolling with Lebron, its hard to beat Hulk/Superman/Robin trio, especially out east these days when other teams just had a big 2 and a forced big 3 like a Porter jr/Val(raptors) or whoever else out east that was a playoff team

I will man up and say Lebron will be leaving Cavs and playing either in California, NYC, or Texas

don't know for what team but it will be in one of those states

Jamiecballer
03-13-2018, 05:32 PM
I'm in. Don't like this team. Reminds me of an old Cavs team of role players that get you through a regular season but fold come playoff time.Don't need to man up, I said this before and after the deadline

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IndyRealist
03-13-2018, 06:12 PM
Keep guessing every year and you all will be right eventually.

That's pretty much my philosophy on the Spurs.

ewing
03-13-2018, 06:30 PM
Celtic year to lose in the finals.

Vee-Rex
03-13-2018, 06:52 PM
It's hard to judge this team statistically because you can pretty much throw anything pre-trade deadline into the trash. Looking at net differential and other stats that contain data prior to the deadline is just meaningless at this point. Short sample be damned, you have to look at post-deadline stats.

I do think we have another gear. LeBron does for sure - I guarantee that. We rarely use the offensive sets this regular season that we've used in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs (just like we refrained from using them in the prior regular seasons). Our energy and effort level on the little things has dropped off.

The only problem is: does that extra gear give us what it takes to beat the Raptors? I'm honestly not worried about the Celtics at all - they're far too banged up and lacking the star talent to take out LeBron. Toronto on the other hand concerns me.

Even so, the Raps have to prove that they won't revert back to their old selves when faced with a ton of adversity. It'll be fun to see.

Jamiecballer
03-13-2018, 06:59 PM
The Raptors are a force. There are not two powerhouse teams in the NBA - Toronto statistically has every right to be in the same conversation as Houston and Golden State. Hopefully Kyle and Demar don't perform like their bums are puckered up like they have in the past.

It won't surprise me if the Cavs are in the ECF's though, the Celtics don't look like a team that can beat either with the injuries piling up.

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LOb0
03-13-2018, 07:01 PM
The Raptors are a force. There are not two powerhouse teams in the NBA - Toronto statistically has every right to be in the same conversation as Houston and Golden State. Hopefully Kyle and Demar don't perform like their bums are puckered up like they have in the past.

It won't surprise me if the Cavs are in the ECF's though, the Celtics don't look like a team that can beat either with the injuries piling up.

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I think the Celtics year is next year, not this year.

Are we really buying Toronto knocking off Bron? Tough sell no matter what the stats are. But we need to take it seriously I'm thinking.

valade16
03-13-2018, 07:23 PM
I think the Celtics year is next year, not this year.

Are we really buying Toronto knocking off Bron? Tough sell no matter what the stats are. But we need to take it seriously I'm thinking.

Boston gets Gordon Hayward back next year (plus continued development from Brown and Tatum). I agree, this year is a nice bonus, but next year is their year, not this one.

FlashBolt
03-13-2018, 07:41 PM
The Raptors are a force. There are not two powerhouse teams in the NBA - Toronto statistically has every right to be in the same conversation as Houston and Golden State. Hopefully Kyle and Demar don't perform like their bums are puckered up like they have in the past.

It won't surprise me if the Cavs are in the ECF's though, the Celtics don't look like a team that can beat either with the injuries piling up.

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No they don't. Toronto would get smashed by Warriors. Cavs 2016 sweep this Raptors team.. Stop overhyping them.

Vee-Rex
03-13-2018, 07:46 PM
I think the Celtics year is next year, not this year.

Agreed. Hayward comes back healthy. Another year for Tatum and Brown to improve. Tatum has sorta hit the rookie wall but he'll scale it soon enough.

Cal827
03-13-2018, 09:09 PM
No they don't. Toronto would get smashed by Warriors. Cavs 2016 sweep this Raptors team.. Stop overhyping them.

You think the 2016 version of the Raptors are better than this version?

Cal827
03-13-2018, 09:16 PM
Lebron can only do so much... Look at the team, a bunch of young guys who aren't comfortable in the system yet, and a bunch of veterans who've lost a step. He doesn't have a 1A/1B guy on his team this year in Irving or Wade.
Also, since we're talking about disappearing come playoff time concerning a few teams (Toronto, Boston), I'd like to mention the second star on Cleveland, Kevin Love... Sure he comes back, but hasn't he disappeared come playoff time before too. If I recall correctly, he was regulated to the bench in their playoff runs. Does he play better now that he's clearly the 2nd best player on the team? If I'm putting money on that question, I'd probably go against it.


Cleveland is not going to the finals this season, and depending on the team they play, I wouldn't be shocked if they get knocked out in the first round. I feel the Bucks would be a nightmare for the Cavs because they'd be forced to keep Lebron on Giannis (or risk foul trouble), or consistently get burned when he drives. Might end up exhausting Lebron for the next series (if they don't get by themselves).... I stand by my bold prediction in the other thread :laugh2:

Now watch in a few months where I'm laughing/crying about being wrong :laugh2:

Jamiecballer
03-13-2018, 09:19 PM
No they don't. Toronto would get smashed by Warriors. Cavs 2016 sweep this Raptors team.. Stop overhyping them.I'm not overhyping them. By just about any statistical measure they are performing at that level. The numbers fully support it. I'm not saying they will beat the Warriors because i dont believe they could but they are right there with Houston and Golden State in there play this year. They might be 1c but that's a big difference from 3a.

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carlessyen
03-13-2018, 09:32 PM
It wont be Celtics taking them down

Dade County
03-13-2018, 10:42 PM
I'm in. Don't like this team. Reminds me of an old Cavs team of role players that get you through a regular season but fold come playoff time.

Lbj will make it to the Final's this season, and when he signs with another team out EAST, he will be going to the Final's next season also.

Even though he is a con artist along with other players (the entire League), he is still on another level. No other modern day player has dominated an entire conference like this; there are so many players that we considered elite, that can't even compare to Le-Con.

Dade County
03-13-2018, 10:44 PM
Agreed. Hayward comes back healthy. Another year for Tatum and Brown to improve. Tatum has sorta hit the rookie wall but he'll scale it soon enough.

Boston won't be making it to the Final's until Lbj retires. Because I don't believe Lbj will be heading West in free agency. So whichever team out East he signs with, that Organization will be heading to the Finals.

europagnpilgrim
03-13-2018, 11:16 PM
It's hard to judge this team statistically because you can pretty much throw anything pre-trade deadline into the trash. Looking at net differential and other stats that contain data prior to the deadline is just meaningless at this point. Short sample be damned, you have to look at post-deadline stats.

I do think we have another gear. LeBron does for sure - I guarantee that. We rarely use the offensive sets this regular season that we've used in the 2016 and 2017 playoffs (just like we refrained from using them in the prior regular seasons). Our energy and effort level on the little things has dropped off.

The only problem is: does that extra gear give us what it takes to beat the Raptors? I'm honestly not worried about the Celtics at all - they're far too banged up and lacking the star talent to take out LeBron. Toronto on the other hand concerns me.

Even so, the Raps have to prove that they won't revert back to their old selves when faced with a ton of adversity. It'll be fun to see.

pretty much this but with Irving in the fold it was basically like are the Cavs going to the finals undefeated or with a single loss, now its like they could go each series 6 games and it wouldn't surprise me the least with this current team, those other teams have to prove it out east just as the others out west have to prove it over the dubs

either way this is the raptors best chance, even the C's if they can get the current big 3 healthy and that other key glue guy in Smart who probably is done for the year but he is tough enough where I could see him giving it a go, they really need his d/toughness more so than his offense

just for the sake of competition I hope its not the same teams 4 straight yrs, I would take a Cavs vs Rockets/Portland/OKC Finals or a Warriors/Raptors and any other playoff team minus the Cavs

just not the same damn teams, its ran its course and I don't care what the ratings say, new fresh blood would bring in newer fans, fanatics and the casual type

LOb0
03-14-2018, 01:41 AM
pretty much this but with Irving in the fold it was basically like are the Cavs going to the finals undefeated or with a single loss, now its like they could go each series 6 games and it wouldn't surprise me the least with this current team, those other teams have to prove it out east just as the others out west have to prove it over the dubs

either way this is the raptors best chance, even the C's if they can get the current big 3 healthy and that other key glue guy in Smart who probably is done for the year but he is tough enough where I could see him giving it a go, they really need his d/toughness more so than his offense

just for the sake of competition I hope its not the same teams 4 straight yrs, I would take a Cavs vs Rockets/Portland/OKC Finals or a Warriors/Raptors and any other playoff team minus the Cavs

just not the same damn teams, its ran its course and I don't care what the ratings say, new fresh blood would bring in newer fans, fanatics and the casual type

Until the Warriors smash in 4 and they say this is boring with zero drama and stop watching.

BSF101
03-14-2018, 02:05 AM
Has long as the Cavs have Lebron they're always gonna be the favorites in the East.
In order for the Celtics to dethrone them, they need to get and stay healthy but if I was a betting man
my money's on Toronto to make it to the Finals in the East.

Swift Game
03-14-2018, 02:13 AM
No Kyrie equals no Finals for the Cavs.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2018, 09:43 AM
this year might actually be tough, his team has fallen apart around him, and LeBron may no longer be capable of winning east series alone. That being said, it's still LeBron, so if I had to put money down, I would put it on the Cavs to win the east, because of LeBron James. He always seems to have another level in him.

Like it matters. GS will wipe the floor with whatever team comes out of the east anyways.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2018, 09:45 AM
The Raptors are a force. There are not two powerhouse teams in the NBA - Toronto statistically has every right to be in the same conversation as Houston and Golden State. Hopefully Kyle and Demar don't perform like their bums are puckered up like they have in the past.

It won't surprise me if the Cavs are in the ECF's though, the Celtics don't look like a team that can beat either with the injuries piling up.

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does anyone really believe GS won't flip the switch when the playoffs start? They don't give a **** about the regular season. Why would they?

We are 6 weeks removed from GS showing us all again they are the greatest team in history. At least that is my call..

Heediot
03-14-2018, 09:51 AM
I think, in the deeper rounds of the playoffs, Kyrie's value wll be missed. Bron's efficiency took a massive dip without Kyrie in the first GS finals. I think when defenses key on him, his efficiency is going to take a hit again. As much as people hate on Kyrie for over dribbling and taking contested shots in the past. Defenses respected him and game planned for him. Taking that away might be the difference for the Cavs. Maybe they get someone else to step up, or take turns stepping up. Maybe Love finally becomes the Robin he's truly capable of being, hard to count on it happening with the way Bron likes his big guys to camp outside the paint.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 09:53 AM
does anyone really believe GS won't flip the switch when the playoffs start? They don't give a **** about the regular season. Why would they?

We are 6 weeks removed from GS showing us all again they are the greatest team in history. At least that is my call..

I think Houston has the pieces to keep up and the versatile defenders to play the same game. I'm not sure they have the same mental toughness and seasoned championship pedigree though. On paper I can see a Rox upset, but like you said the heat gets turned up the deeper we go into the playoffs/season.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2018, 09:56 AM
I think Houston has the pieces to keep up and the versatile defenders to play the same game. I'm not sure they have the same mental toughness and seasoned championship pedigree though. On paper I can see a Rox upset, but like you said the heat gets turned up the deeper we go into the playoffs/season.

2 things though

1- GS went 16-0 and demolished the west last year. Why is this not recognized?
2- Houston, as great as they are, needs their 2 best players to do something they never have-not choke or underperform at some point in the playoffs

I just think people are hoping a team stands up to GS. The only team beating GS is themselves unfortunately, meaning, injuries..They are just so ****ing good.

Jamiecballer
03-14-2018, 09:57 AM
does anyone really believe GS won't flip the switch when the playoffs start? They don't give a **** about the regular season. Why would they?

We are 6 weeks removed from GS showing us all again they are the greatest team in history. At least that is my call..No, I expect that as well. That wasn't really my point though. Things are what they are until they are not. My point was only that there are 3 teams that are smashing the league this season, not 2.

It could very well be Golden State/ Cleveland again. This is just the first time in years I would absolutely not be willing to put money on it.

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Hawkeye15
03-14-2018, 10:02 AM
No, I expect that as well. That wasn't really my point though. Things are what they are until they are not. My point was only that there are 3 teams that are smashing the league this season, not 2.

It could very well be Golden State/ Cleveland again. This is just the first time in years I would absolutely not be willing to put money on it.

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oh sure, I agree. Toronto gets knocked down a peg by most due to history of their star players come playoff time, and that is fair. But it doesn't mean they haven't been a great team this year.

I would put money on GS/Cleveland without hesitation. Just wouldn't be that much haha

Mell413
03-14-2018, 10:04 AM
I would take the field over the Cavs at this point.

SteBO
03-14-2018, 10:46 AM
This team reminds me so much of that Ď09-Ď10 Cavs team. Superhuman surrounded by a bunch of C+ players sans Love, and even he isnít gonna be 100%. I can never come around to thinking the Raptors can knock off LeBron, but this year is the best chance theyíre ever gonna have.

Doesnít even really matter anyway. Whoever wins the West is winning it all.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 11:00 AM
This team reminds me so much of that Ď09-Ď10 Cavs team. Superhuman surrounded by a bunch of C+ players sans Love, and even he isnít gonna be 100%. I can never come around to thinking the Raptors can knock off LeBron, but this year is the best chance theyíre ever gonna have.

Doesnít even really matter anyway. Whoever wins the West is winning it all.

Exactly. Whoever is fighting for the East is settling for 2nd. No one would be happier to face the Rockets than LeBron, though. Who is stopping him? At least with Harden and CP3, you can still bet on the off-chance they choke. I'm not as confident Houston can beat Cavs as Warriors will. If the LeBron that played vs the Warriors in last year's Finals shows up, Cavs can win.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 11:23 AM
2 things though

1- GS went 16-0 and demolished the west last year. Why is this not recognized?
2- Houston, as great as they are, needs their 2 best players to do something they never have-not choke or underperform at some point in the playoffs

I just think people are hoping a team stands up to GS. The only team beating GS is themselves unfortunately, meaning, injuries..They are just so ****ing good.

Honestly talent wise and personnel Houston is there, it's not false hope. I just need more trust that cp and harden can handle the playoff pressure from the cf and finals. It will still be an upset like when the Cavs won, but there is a punchers chance. I don't think they are as invincible as i thought pre-season.

Vinylman
03-14-2018, 11:24 AM
does anyone really believe GS won't flip the switch when the playoffs start? They don't give a **** about the regular season. Why would they?

We are 6 weeks removed from GS showing us all again they are the greatest team in history. At least that is my call..

agree with the first part... can't agree to the bolded

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 12:27 PM
agree with the first part... can't agree to the bolded

I don't think any team can beat last year's Warriors other than Bird's Celtics 85-86. Bird would hold his own vs KD, Parish+McHale destroys that frontcourt, and though Johnson+Ainge aren't going to do anything vs Klay+Curry, that frontcourt would absolutely wreck Warriors a new booty. But any other team? I don't see it. 95-96 Bulls probably come to mind but they don't have the frontcourt pressure you will need to counter the Warriors. I mean, Rodman vs Draymond will be fun but you're going to need some inside presence. Peak LeBron and Kyrie and none of us really expected Cleveland to win. We're talking about two of the top 10 NBA players in the league right now and they basically had no chance.

aman_13
03-14-2018, 12:43 PM
It's just so hard to get against LeBron.

Vee-Rex
03-14-2018, 12:47 PM
Also, since we're talking about disappearing come playoff time concerning a few teams (Toronto, Boston), I'd like to mention the second star on Cleveland, Kevin Love... Sure he comes back, but hasn't he disappeared come playoff time before too. If I recall correctly, he was regulated to the bench in their playoff runs. Does he play better now that he's clearly the 2nd best player on the team?

The Kevin Love factor is interesting, because it could very well be the difference in the East.

To answer your questions: he has been up and down in the playoffs, but he had a good series vs. the Pacers and absolutely torched Boston in the ECF last year.

His 3-point % in particular has been incredible vs. the East the last couple of years. He was on the bench during that historic comeback vs. the Pacers last year (along with Kyrie Irving) but I can't think of other times we've benched him. His rebounding is absolutely crucial in the playoffs especially when the game slows down a little and teams miss a little more due to better defense.

As for this year - it's his best year as a Cavalier. His FG% and 3pt% are 2nd highest in his career. His TS% is at a career high this year. His WS/48 is his best as a Cavalier.

His ppg is lower due to lower minutes and fewer FGA per game. His per36 shows how much better he's doing this year than last.

I don't know, I think it's a bit of a hot take and very naive to just act like he doesn't matter (which is what people have been doing for the last month). I guess it's more fun for people to proclaim the Cavs definitely won't make it out of the East than to try to weigh in those factors.

I personally think if the Cavs can be fully healthy they'll give Toronto a run for their money. 6 or 7 game series and it's hard to bet against LeBron. Should be a really good series, though.

Vinylman
03-14-2018, 12:56 PM
I don't think any team can beat last year's Warriors other than Bird's Celtics 85-86. Bird would hold his own vs KD, Parish+McHale destroys that frontcourt, and though Johnson+Ainge aren't going to do anything vs Klay+Curry, that frontcourt would absolutely wreck Warriors a new booty. But any other team? I don't see it. 95-96 Bulls probably come to mind but they don't have the frontcourt pressure you will need to counter the Warriors. I mean, Rodman vs Draymond will be fun but you're going to need some inside presence. Peak LeBron and Kyrie and none of us really expected Cleveland to win. We're talking about two of the top 10 NBA players in the league right now and they basically had no chance.

which rules do we play under... that GS team loses to a ton of teams under the old rules

Vee-Rex
03-14-2018, 01:05 PM
I've also been warning you guys that this Cavs team hasn't been playing quite the same way as they do in the playoffs. I've watched about 60/67 games this year and every single one post deadline. They play differently in the playoffs. They use LeBron in the post more often and pick apart opposing defenses with offensive sets I haven't really seen in the regular season. The offense is far more precise and focused, and the rebounding is a huge strength of the Cavs in the postseason in a slower-style intense game. The defense ramps up big time even if the personnel aren't good, and I'd argue we have better defensive pieces this year than last. If it ramps up the same way, we might have a respectable defense again (last time was the 2015 playoffs).

If your team doesn't have a guy that plays fantastic defense on LeBron, it's gonna be hard. I just don't think it's a guarantee that anyone in the East beats LeBron. It's easy to look at teams like Philly and Indiana and Milwaukee think they might eliminate LeBron, and I kind of shake my head because I see how much differently the Cavs play.

At the same time, the Raptors have completely transformed their team. They have a strong bench and are far more aggressive at the 3-point line than before. They move the ball a LOT better. I criticized them at the beginning of the 2016-17 season because, despite having a STRONG December, they were still scoring through ISO. That hasn't been the case this year. They look at legit as any other team.

It's either the Cavs or Raptors in the finals from the East. Gun to my head I'm picking LeBron, but only because of history and giving him the benefit of the doubt until another team proves to be better.

One thing's for sure - this thread will be fun to revive a couple months from now, even if I'm 100% wrong. :laugh2:

nastynice
03-14-2018, 01:12 PM
I'll do it. I'll man up and say it

Raps gonna win the east

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 01:17 PM
which rules do we play under... that GS team loses to a ton of teams under the old rules

No they don't. If your premise is that KD/Curry would not be able to deal with hand-checking, well, they would also get to the rim much easier for an open shot. If you're going to say they aren't as though, well, these guys aren't less tough. The rules were vague and allowed for that type of dirty play. But that really doesn't make them better basketball players. Some of these guys in the 90's would not be in the NBA if we're talking about pure basketball ability.

SteBO
03-14-2018, 01:23 PM
which rules do we play under... that GS team loses to a ton of teams under the old rules
You realize todayís players are bigger, stronger, and faster right? Not to mention more skilled. I never really understood this argument, especially when it gets applied to LBJ, a physical specimen....

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 01:27 PM
You realize todayís players are bigger, stronger, and faster right? Not to mention more skilled. I never really understood this argument, especially when it gets applied to LBJ, a physical specimen....

That's my point. There are players in the 90's that would never make it in today's NBA just because it's more skill-oriented than anything. And how many international players were there in the 90's? The only thing that has changed are the rules. Charles Oakley is respected among basketball fans for his toughness but this guy would be like Kendrick Perkins.

nastynice
03-14-2018, 01:36 PM
Bird would hold his own vs KD, .

I'm sure he would bro

Considering we wrecked the grizz in the paint 3 years ago when they were considered to have the toughest front court in the league, I think your gsw vs bos assessment is a bit off

Heediot
03-14-2018, 01:47 PM
Rules still matter. KD effectiveness goes down when your allowed to be more physical and play tighter. I think the spacing and attention others on GS draw helps him out with the rule switch. But I think he can do almost as well in the regular season with the old rules, but will take a hit in the postseason, even more so then he does now in the playoffs (pre-gs). The amount of talent on this team helps everyone by making it harder for the defenses to key in on just one person. So that helps KD. You also see the Cavs giving Curry fits, before the arrival of KG. Y'all can't say rules and how the game is officiated doesn't matter.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 01:51 PM
That's my point. There are players in the 90's that would never make it in today's NBA just because it's more skill-oriented than anything. And how many international players were there in the 90's? The only thing that has changed are the rules. Charles Oakley is respected among basketball fans for his toughness but this guy would be like Kendrick Perkins.

It's was more skill oriented back then. The ability to create one's own offense was bigger back then. Which is why a efficient scoring big and inside out basketball was more predominant. You think Jeremy Lin could tear up the nba like the month he had with the older rules? Ball handlers have it way easier to get to their spots just because of how restricted perimeter defense has become. It's easier for the ball handler to set up the defender/defense now vs. in the past.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 02:17 PM
You realize todayís players are bigger, stronger, and faster right? Not to mention more skilled. I never really understood this argument, especially when it gets applied to LBJ, a physical specimen....

How skilled do we really think RWB, Giannis is, MVP Rose? I don' think you can go back to the mid 90's and have any guy in the top 10 those year that wasn't skilled, aside from Shaq who was just a monster with his size and power.

I think Skill is more important then athleticism. But athleticism combined with skill outs you over the top like Jordan and LeBron. Magic/Bird/Kareem/Malone/McHale/Barkley/Stockton/KD/Curry/Cp3/Harden/Cousins. These guys aren't the most athletic no matter what the era. Athleticism helps now more if your a ball handler like RWB/OldRose/Giannis/Ben Simmons because you don't have to be as multi-faceted to be successful. There were guys who can attack the rim back then, but the best players who could handle the rock could beat you with the mid-range and drive it. Now you see a guy with a broken shot like Derozan almost hit 30 points in a season, just because he can get to the line by attacking the rim and get soft calls.

aman_13
03-14-2018, 02:21 PM
null
But that's the thing, the game has evolved because minds evolve. We think about the game differently because we are more in tune to effeciency and making the most out of every possession. It goes in line with everything in life. Social media has changed the way we think about conventional advertising. It's just we don't know how certain companies would have operated if they had the know how and technology we do now and we don't know how those players from the older era would play if they were more in tune with spreading the offense and focusing more on the three.

Today the three ball is a prerequisite for wings and guards looking to make the NBA. That wasn't the case for players in the past because we looked at the game differently. I'm kind of rambling here but my point is, we don't know how teams like GS would play in the older era. If we are playing by today's rules and principals, they would smoke every team ever played. If these players were borned a decade or two earlier, they may not be as good.

I hope that made sense.

valade16
03-14-2018, 02:52 PM
That's my point. There are players in the 90's that would never make it in today's NBA just because it's more skill-oriented than anything. And how many international players were there in the 90's? The only thing that has changed are the rules. Charles Oakley is respected among basketball fans for his toughness but this guy would be like Kendrick Perkins.

He was Kendrick Perkins back then, he was just a better Kendrick Perkins.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 02:57 PM
I'm sure he would bro

Considering we wrecked the grizz in the paint 3 years ago when they were considered to have the toughest front court in the league, I think your gsw vs bos assessment is a bit off

1) Wtf are you talking about? The series where Conley/Allen were injured when Grizzlies were up 2-1? Or are you talking about the Z-Bo/Gasol duo that clearly outplayed Draymond/Bogut but because they had no scoring, wasn't able to muster up enough offense?

2) The fact you're even comparing Parish+McHale to Z-Bo+Marc Gasol is hilarious. McHale had the best post moves for a PF and is consistently ranked as a top 10 PF. Is Z-Bo or Marc a top 10 at their position in NBA history?

Charles Barkley: Kevin McHale was the best player I ever played against.

When was the last time a top 20 GOAT ever said that about Z-Bo or Marc Gasol?

3) Yes, Larry would hold his own against KD. Larry is only the 2nd greatest SF and a top ten NBA player.

Man, you're so biased it's insane.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 02:57 PM
He was Kendrick Perkins back then, he was just a better Kendrick Perkins.

Oakley had a legit jumper/mid range. Bigs were rarely 3 point shooters, but for back then he was a stretch big in terms of playing away from the basket and allowing Ewing the space to work. Very good defender too, way better vs. Perkins who did well when he knew his role in Thibs scheme. Got worse and worse each year after that.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 03:01 PM
It's was more skill oriented back then. The ability to create one's own offense was bigger back then. Which is why a efficient scoring big and inside out basketball was more predominant. You think Jeremy Lin could tear up the nba like the month he had with the older rules? Ball handlers have it way easier to get to their spots just because of how restricted perimeter defense has become. It's easier for the ball handler to set up the defender/defense now vs. in the past.

Muggsy Bogues had a stretch of three years where he was a serviceable starting PG in the league.. For three years.. as a 5'3 PG.. So please don't EVER question whether or not a player like Jeremy could play back then. The skill level today is higher. Possibly the least skilled position in NBA history has been the center as it was always about size. Take a look at how far they have developed. Take a look at some of these new frontcourt players such as AD+Porzy+Embiid+Giannis. It's insane, dude. You're referring to fundamentals and not skill, IMO. I'd agree, fundamentally a lot of the players today are lacking and that's because the game is geared towards shooting and less of having the ability to create a shot. All it takes is one guy to create for the rest of the team.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 03:04 PM
Oakley had a legit jumper/mid range. Bigs were rarely 3 point shooters, but for back then he was a stretch big in terms of playing away from the basket and allowing Ewing the space to work. Very good defender too, way better vs. Perkins who did well when he knew his role in Thibs scheme. Got worse and worse each year after that.

Don't mistake dirtier defense for better defense. The game today has offensive schemes that no one would know how to guard against back then other than, "play physical." It's a far more strategic and sophisticated game than ever with how open the court is. Am I supposed to believe NBA players suddenly stopped playing defense because the number in the date changed? There is no, "80's or 90's had better defense." These are the best basketball players in the world. The only thing that has changed are the rules. And quite frankly, the rules today are a more pure basketball game which means the defensive schemes today have expanded.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 03:28 PM
Muggsy Bogues had a stretch of three years where he was a serviceable starting PG in the league.. For three years.. as a 5'3 PG.. So please don't EVER question whether or not a player like Jeremy could play back then. The skill level today is higher. Possibly the least skilled position in NBA history has been the center as it was always about size. Take a look at how far they have developed. Take a look at some of these new frontcourt players such as AD+Porzy+Embiid+Giannis. It's insane, dude. You're referring to fundamentals and not skill, IMO. I'd agree, fundamentally a lot of the players today are lacking and that's because the game is geared towards shooting and less of having the ability to create a shot. All it takes is one guy to create for the rest of the team.

AD Porzy Embiid are skilled. Jokic and Cousins too. I don't think Giannis is skilled, but what he is skilled at which is ball handling and getting to the rim, is sooped up by how the game is called. Like Giannis, Jeremy Lin benefits from how the game is called. PG's had different roles back then, Muggsy was a solid player because he played the role that was required well. Muggsy was skilled as **** for his height, you don't make it to the nba being that short without skill. IT has skill, just no defense. I'm not saying Jeremy Lin can't ball, but no way in hell can he get away with the Linsanity month (w/NYK) with how the game was played and called back then.

In terms of big man, there skills are mitigated by how the game is called. You have Cousins/Ad, Jokic/Milsap, Simmons/Embiid combos none of these combinations are top 10 team in the nba. Horford/Milsap, Gasol/ZBo had their runs, those guys had some skill, but were limited and never really contenders. It's hard to contend with two bigs as the primary focal point now because it's a ball handler league.

Edit: I guess you do have a point of bigs now being more versatile and having to develop more variety due to the evolution of the game I think the 5's back then were more effective at what they did, just like the ball handlers are more effective now just by how the game is called then and now. Bigs now have to be more varied and skilled but will still not impact the game as they should, ball handlers now can get away with being less skilled and impact the game more easily vs. back then.

Heediot
03-14-2018, 03:34 PM
Don't mistake dirtier defense for better defense. The game today has offensive schemes that no one would know how to guard against back then other than, "play physical." It's a far more strategic and sophisticated game than ever with how open the court is. Am I supposed to believe NBA players suddenly stopped playing defense because the number in the date changed? There is no, "80's or 90's had better defense." These are the best basketball players in the world. The only thing that has changed are the rules. And quite frankly, the rules today are a more pure basketball game which means the defensive schemes today have expanded.

Oakley was a good defender in of himself. Maybe he didn't have to switch like the bigs do now, but he could d up in the post and hold his ground and help out with double teams. yeah he was dirty but that doesn't take away from his ability to defend. Would he translate as well to this era like Rodman, maybe not. I still don't think he's a liability in this era either. He made all d team with two different clubs so unlike Perkins even with a change in scenery he was a plus on defense. The point is he'd be way more useful versus Perkins and is a better player in general.

ewing
03-14-2018, 04:17 PM
He was Kendrick Perkins back then, he was just a better Kendrick Perkins.

Definitely better. Oak had a nice mid range J. He likely would have extended his range if he played today. Offensively his issue was he couldnít hit layups. He was pretty good with Js. He was also a great help defender (Iím sure he lead league in taking charges multiple times). Plus he was a great rebounder. His era definitely fit him better but he would have a spot in todayís game playing both the 4 and 5


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FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 04:57 PM
AD Porzy Embiid are skilled. Jokic and Cousins too. I don't think Giannis is skilled, but what he is skilled at which is ball handling and getting to the rim, is sooped up by how the game is called. Like Giannis, Jeremy Lin benefits from how the game is called. PG's had different roles back then, Muggsy was a solid player because he played the role that was required well. Muggsy was skilled as **** for his height, you don't make it to the nba being that short without skill. IT has skill, just no defense. I'm not saying Jeremy Lin can't ball, but no way in hell can he get away with the Linsanity month (w/NYK) with how the game was played and called back then.

In terms of big man, there skills are mitigated by how the game is called. You have Cousins/Ad, Jokic/Milsap, Simmons/Embiid combos none of these combinations are top 10 team in the nba. Horford/Milsap, Gasol/ZBo had their runs, those guys had some skill, but were limited and never really contenders. It's hard to contend with two bigs as the primary focal point now because it's a ball handler league.

Edit: I guess you do have a point of bigs now being more versatile and having to develop more variety due to the evolution of the game I think the 5's back then were more effective at what they did, just like the ball handlers are more effective now just by how the game is called then and now. Bigs now have to be more varied and skilled but will still not impact the game as they should, ball handlers now can get away with being less skilled and impact the game more easily vs. back then.

Your initial argument was "Do you think Jeremy Lin could tear up the NBA the way he did in the other era." Why is it Muggsy can be a serviceable starting PG but Jeremy Lin can't have a streak of seven great games? We've seen more improbable things happen. That Jeremy Lin stretch was an amazing period of NBA basketball. It took an insane amount of luck with how it happened. Muggsy was skilled but he was still 5'3. If he could do it, then your definition of how the league was played back then is clearly more nostalgia than anything else. If you're talking about handchecking and guys being physical, please realize Muggsy was 5'3 and less than 140 lbs. Were they tough? Yes. Were they more physical? Yes. But please stop trying to make it seem as if they were doing some WWE stunts out there. It was basketball at the end of the day.


Giannis, you're right. He's more of a physical specimen but still, he's doing some amazing things with the basketball. I don't know if anyone has noticed but with the explosion of guard play, we're seeing many bigs develop into outstanding talent and will eventually take the crown once again as the most talented position. It's absolutely ridiculous that guys 7 ft can dribble between their legs, run the fast break, and hit threes. These are skills man.. Embiid isn't waking up doing all the things he's doing out of nowhere. And AD? My Lord, this guy is like Kevin Durant if he was beefier.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 05:00 PM
Oakley was a good defender in of himself. Maybe he didn't have to switch like the bigs do now, but he could d up in the post and hold his ground and help out with double teams. yeah he was dirty but that doesn't take away from his ability to defend. Would he translate as well to this era like Rodman, maybe not. I still don't think he's a liability in this era either. He made all d team with two different clubs so unlike Perkins even with a change in scenery he was a plus on defense. The point is he'd be way more useful versus Perkins and is a better player in general.

Of course I'd take Oakley over Perkins but what I meant is that he would be represented as a dirty player who acted like a hitman. It's not even about basketball at that point - just a dirty player looking to start problems.

tredigs
03-14-2018, 05:06 PM
Well, the Raptors are the favorites in the East at this point. And if they were not the Raptors and did not have a stigma, they would be considered significant favorites. Personally, if they can stay healthy to close the season, they've made me a believer this year. They're finally top 5 in both offense and defense, Demar is the best version of himself, and the team is easily the best version of themselves in their history. I'm not even positive the Cavs will make it to the Raptors (Fultz looks like he's actually getting ready to play, and if he can contribute to the Sixers, that team would scare me as a Cavs fan... the Celtics with Hayward would have been favorites also, and even as is could pose an issue), but if they do, I will be betting on Toronto and do not expect it to go 7.

nastynice
03-14-2018, 05:17 PM
1) Wtf are you talking about? The series where Conley/Allen were injured when Grizzlies were up 2-1? Or are you talking about the Z-Bo/Gasol duo that clearly outplayed Draymond/Bogut but because they had no scoring, wasn't able to muster up enough offense?

2) The fact you're even comparing Parish+McHale to Z-Bo+Marc Gasol is hilarious. McHale had the best post moves for a PF and is consistently ranked as a top 10 PF. Is Z-Bo or Marc a top 10 at their position in NBA history?

Charles Barkley: Kevin McHale was the best player I ever played against.

When was the last time a top 20 GOAT ever said that about Z-Bo or Marc Gasol?

3) Yes, Larry would hold his own against KD. Larry is only the 2nd greatest SF and a top ten NBA player.

Man, you're so biased it's insane.

I'm talking about the series where we outscored and outplayed in the paint, where they were up 2-1 I believe

Larry would hold his own vs KD on which end of the court? He can lock him up on defense? Get by him on offense? I can't see either of those situations happening with any regularity, so I'm not sure what you mean by hold his own

What's the bias? What did I say that was wrong?

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 05:36 PM
I'm talking about the series where we outscored and outplayed in the paint, where they were up 2-1 I believe

Larry would hold his own vs KD on which end of the court? He can lock him up on defense? Get by him on offense? I can't see either of those situations happening with any regularity, so I'm not sure what you mean by hold his own

What's the bias? What did I say that was wrong?

1) Of course you guys are going to outscore them in the paint.. Memphis had no shot creators other than Marc and Zach and you guys had Curry, Klay, Draymond, and guys who can get to the basket.. Conley was injured for much of the series. What does that even have to do with the frontcourt matchup? Are you seriously saying Draymond and Bogut outplayed Gasol and Randolph? Because that never happened.


2) It's obvious what, "Hold their own" means. I'm not sure what you need to clarify. You honestly tried comparing Gasol+Z-Bo to Parish and McHale.. bro.. what are you talking about?

Heediot
03-14-2018, 06:09 PM
Your initial argument was "Do you think Jeremy Lin could tear up the NBA the way he did in the other era." Why is it Muggsy can be a serviceable starting PG but Jeremy Lin can't have a streak of seven great games? We've seen more improbable things happen. That Jeremy Lin stretch was an amazing period of NBA basketball. It took an insane amount of luck with how it happened. Muggsy was skilled but he was still 5'3. If he could do it, then your definition of how the league was played back then is clearly more nostalgia than anything else. If you're talking about handchecking and guys being physical, please realize Muggsy was 5'3 and less than 140 lbs. Were they tough? Yes. Were they more physical? Yes. But please stop trying to make it seem as if they were doing some WWE stunts out there. It was basketball at the end of the day.


Giannis, you're right. He's more of a physical specimen but still, he's doing some amazing things with the basketball. I don't know if anyone has noticed but with the explosion of guard play, we're seeing many bigs develop into outstanding talent and will eventually take the crown once again as the most talented position. It's absolutely ridiculous that guys 7 ft can dribble between their legs, run the fast break, and hit threes. These are skills man.. Embiid isn't waking up doing all the things he's doing out of nowhere. And AD? My Lord, this guy is like Kevin Durant if he was beefier.

OK it's not impossible, but less likely. Is my memory of the other era clouded , I am sure it is as I was in high school and pretty young to be watching games with objectivity and knowledge as I do know in the mid 90's. I will admit that. I am not going to deny there isnt any nostalgia factor.

When rules are different offenses are structured differently too. This pace and space league is made to counter the zones. So the way the game is played and called helps Lin and his drive and kick game. How many teams back then based their offenses off of that style of drive and kick? It was based more on throwing it to a post guy and working it around, and in fewer instances based on a guy like MJ (younger days)or Drexler ability to take his man off the dribble. There were pick n roll based offenses too. But when teams ran pick n rolls back then, the ability to defend it is much different when big men are allowed to camp in the paint. Same with Europe and College, it's easier to scheme and hide big men if your allowed to camp in the paint. The ability to manipulate a defense for the ball handler was much harder because defenders were allowed different liberties. That's just my view.

For Lin it was more then 7 games it was a whole month iirc, even more possibly I don't know. It was flukey and unsustainable, but I personally don't see that kind of run with how the game was played back then. The drive and kick game was developed to take advantage of the new rules and evolving game. It was a different game back then, that's why I don't think he can do what he did with that run he had. You needed to be a good iso player to help set up your drives back then (at least for the elite wing/guard scorers), I don't see Lin as that type of guy. Not saying it's impossible but unlikely for me, you can have your opinion I just don't agree.

Cal827
03-14-2018, 06:26 PM
The Kevin Love factor is interesting, because it could very well be the difference in the East.

To answer your questions: he has been up and down in the playoffs, but he had a good series vs. the Pacers and absolutely torched Boston in the ECF last year.

His 3-point % in particular has been incredible vs. the East the last couple of years. He was on the bench during that historic comeback vs. the Pacers last year (along with Kyrie Irving) but I can't think of other times we've benched him. His rebounding is absolutely crucial in the playoffs especially when the game slows down a little and teams miss a little more due to better defense.

As for this year - it's his best year as a Cavalier. His FG% and 3pt% are 2nd highest in his career. His TS% is at a career high this year. His WS/48 is his best as a Cavalier.

His ppg is lower due to lower minutes and fewer FGA per game. His per36 shows how much better he's doing this year than last.

I don't know, I think it's a bit of a hot take and very naive to just act like he doesn't matter (which is what people have been doing for the last month). I guess it's more fun for people to proclaim the Cavs definitely won't make it out of the East than to try to weigh in those factors.

I personally think if the Cavs can be fully healthy they'll give Toronto a run for their money. 6 or 7 game series and it's hard to bet against LeBron. Should be a really good series, though.

I could've sworn that he was mainly coming off the bench in the 2016 finals, my bad. I do know that he was terrible for that series however. He averaged like 7 points and 5 assists per game. In fact, the only series that I recall him playing good against were (of course) the ECF vs Boston and Toronto in back to back years :laugh2:

Anyways, I feel that this is the year that Toronto could possibly take them down. It's their best chance to get to the finals this season, and if they don't, then this year will definitely look like a choke. Lebron's the main guy on that team, and while he killed Toronto last playoffs (Basically playing like Shaq with Steph shooting ability and Kidd Passing Skills :laugh2: ), he's the ONLY guy now. Having threats like Love and Irving allowed guys like Frye and Korver get open all day and nail like 60% of the threes they shot too. The Raptors defense against the 3 is a lot better when compared to previous seasons.

I would expect it to be a very close series, but as a Raptor fan, I'll stay with the Raptors.

You are right though Rex, it's gonna be funny to see this in a few months. If Cleveland knocks out Toronto for the third straight year, I half expect that King Lebron message that you posted a little while back to be in my inbox :laugh2:

ewing
03-14-2018, 06:49 PM
I'm talking about the series where we outscored and outplayed in the paint, where they were up 2-1 I believe

Larry would hold his own vs KD on which end of the court? He can lock him up on defense? Get by him on offense? I can't see either of those situations happening with any regularity, so I'm not sure what you mean by hold his own

What's the bias? What did I say that was wrong?

Your nuts. Larry Bird could consistently score and make plays regardless of defender. You think KD is the Bird stopper or something? I got news for you that single player doesnít exist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

valade16
03-14-2018, 06:50 PM
Muggsy Bogues had a stretch of three years where he was a serviceable starting PG in the league.. For three years.. as a 5'3 PG.. So please don't EVER question whether or not a player like Jeremy could play back then. The skill level today is higher. Possibly the least skilled position in NBA history has been the center as it was always about size. Take a look at how far they have developed. Take a look at some of these new frontcourt players such as AD+Porzy+Embiid+Giannis. It's insane, dude. You're referring to fundamentals and not skill, IMO. I'd agree, fundamentally a lot of the players today are lacking and that's because the game is geared towards shooting and less of having the ability to create a shot. All it takes is one guy to create for the rest of the team.

What is the difference between fundamentals and skills?

I'd argue that the players today are simply learning different skills than they did back then. Yes AD and Embiid and Porzingis can shoot from deep and dribble, but their post up games are light years behind where bigs back then were. It's because they are simply learning different skills.

If Hakeem or Ewing came out today they'd be pushed to shoot more 3's and dribble more and roll of Pick and Rolls, and Hakeem was an excellent dribbler for a big and wouldn't have had any problem. Conversely, if Embiid or AD were drafted back then, they would be pushed inside to develop their post games, they certainly wouldn't be given the green light to shoot 3's, much less the 3-4 per game they do today.

nastynice
03-14-2018, 08:09 PM
1) Of course you guys are going to outscore them in the paint.. Memphis had no shot creators other than Marc and Zach and you guys had Curry, Klay, Draymond, and guys who can get to the basket.. Conley was injured for much of the series. What does that even have to do with the frontcourt matchup? Are you seriously saying Draymond and Bogut outplayed Gasol and Randolph? Because that never happened.


2) It's obvious what, "Hold their own" means. I'm not sure what you need to clarify. You honestly tried comparing Gasol+Z-Bo to Parish and McHale.. bro.. what are you talking about?

1) Conley was injured for 2 games, it was 1-1. Our team controlled the paint against them

2) it's not obvious to me, you can clarify if you want

nastynice
03-14-2018, 08:11 PM
Your nuts. Larry Bird could consistently score and make plays regardless of defender. You think KD is the Bird stopper or something? I got news for you that single player doesnít exist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If this kd was guarding that bird, yes I think he would be a bird stopper. Maybe not catch and shoot, I don't know, but with the ball in his hands yes I think so

ewing
03-14-2018, 08:34 PM
If this kd was guarding that bird, yes I think he would be a bird stopper. Maybe not catch and shoot, I don't know, but with the ball in his hands yes I think so

you're nuts.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 08:46 PM
1) Conley was injured for 2 games, it was 1-1. Our team controlled the paint against them

2) it's not obvious to me, you can clarify if you want

This is where actually knowing what happened rather than guessing (like you do) comes into play.

1) Conley was injured in game 1. He played the rest of the series with a face mask.. he wasn't close to 100% the entire time which would qualify as an injury. Regular season and he would be sitting.

2) It's not obvious to you? I mean, is English not your first language?

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 08:47 PM
you're nuts.

He's crazy if he thinks KD can stop Larry. That's probably the most hilarious thing he has said. He's the biggest homer if he thinks that's remotely true.

FlashBolt
03-14-2018, 08:54 PM
What is the difference between fundamentals and skills?

I'd argue that the players today are simply learning different skills than they did back then. Yes AD and Embiid and Porzingis can shoot from deep and dribble, but their post up games are light years behind where bigs back then were. It's because they are simply learning different skills.

If Hakeem or Ewing came out today they'd be pushed to shoot more 3's and dribble more and roll of Pick and Rolls, and Hakeem was an excellent dribbler for a big and wouldn't have had any problem. Conversely, if Embiid or AD were drafted back then, they would be pushed inside to develop their post games, they certainly wouldn't be given the green light to shoot 3's, much less the 3-4 per game they do today.

It's skill that has to be developed. Back then, it was more traditional positions so you had a solidified set of skills. With small ball, players just have to do more so they can adjust to the various systems being used. Fundamentals is like Duncan whereas skill is Anthony Davis. I just think Anthony Davis can do more than Duncan because of the way the league is now.

nastynice
03-15-2018, 03:47 AM
This is where actually knowing what happened rather than guessing (like you do) comes into play.

1) Conley was injured in game 1. He played the rest of the series with a face mask.. he wasn't close to 100% the entire time which would qualify as an injury. Regular season and he would be sitting.

2) It's not obvious to you? I mean, is English not your first language?

Great, either way Conley played good, you keep bringing it up like it changed the outcome, must be that warriors fan side of you kicking in again

Maybe not, feel free to elaborate what hold their own means. You acting like those two just cancel each other out, it don't work like that

bklynny67
03-15-2018, 04:03 AM
LeBron has only made the finals with a cast of other stars. He doesn't have that this year. He won't be there. He can only win with other elite players.

hpt
03-15-2018, 05:28 AM
LeBron has only made the finals with a cast of other stars. He doesn't have that this year. He won't be there. He can only win with other elite players.

Yeah...he doesn't get the most out of his teammates like MJ and Kobe did.

R. Johnson#3
03-15-2018, 05:45 AM
If Kyle Lowry doesn't disappear this post season then I think the Raps make it to the finals. Lebron takes it to another level but this year he only has his role players, a possibly rusty Kevin Love and no clutch time killer in Kyrie. Lebron is going to have to do A LOT to even get to the finals.

FlashBolt
03-15-2018, 05:55 AM
Great, either way Conley played good, you keep bringing it up like it changed the outcome, must be that warriors fan side of you kicking in again

Maybe not, feel free to elaborate what hold their own means. You acting like those two just cancel each other out, it don't work like that

None of what you said makes any sense and you think KD can stop Bird so you're not worth giving more time to.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 09:29 AM
LeBron has only made the finals with a cast of other stars. He doesn't have that this year. He won't be there. He can only win with other elite players.

Yea his 07 teams was ****ing stacked.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 09:30 AM
If Kyle Lowry doesn't disappear this post season then I think the Raps make it to the finals. Lebron takes it to another level but this year he only has his role players, a possibly rusty Kevin Love and no clutch time killer in Kyrie. Lebron is going to have to do A LOT to even get to the finals.

I'm not sure man, now that they got rid of that locker room cancer Wade they seem to be hitting on all cylinders and primed to sweep the East.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 09:31 AM
Yeah...he doesn't get the most out of his teammates like MJ and Kobe did.

He gets much more from his teammates and gets his teammates far more involved than Kobe did.

phillipmike
03-15-2018, 10:37 AM
This year's Lebron's Cavs are very beatable and against the right team they could get bounced in the 1st round based on talent but the league would never let that happen. LeBron is a beast in himself and imo the best player ever but there is only so much he can do. However, LeBron in the playoffs is extremely marketable and the refs give him the calls. Talent vs Talent there are at least 2 teams in the East that can beat the Cavs in the playoffs but the refs can change a game and as long as LeBron is healthy the Cavs will make it out of the East.

R. Johnson#3
03-15-2018, 10:52 AM
I'm not sure man, now that they got rid of that locker room cancer Wade they seem to be hitting on all cylinders and primed to sweep the East.

Look at that! You finally admit Wade is locker room poison.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 10:57 AM
Look at that! You finally admit Wade is locker room poison.

Yes, and it's clear as day when you look at how great Cleveland has been since. Nearly unstoppable going 7-6 with their new pieces.

R. Johnson#3
03-15-2018, 12:09 PM
Yes, and it's clear as day when you look at how great Cleveland has been since. Nearly unstoppable going 7-6 with their new pieces.

Yeah, they're playing a hell of a lot better now than they were with Wade. Glad to see you've noticed.

Vee-Rex
03-15-2018, 01:33 PM
You two are like an old married couple. It's kinda cute.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 01:37 PM
Yeah, they're playing a hell of a lot better now than they were with Wade. Glad to see you've noticed.

They're locks to win the championship now.

COOLbeans
03-15-2018, 01:42 PM
He was Kendrick Perkins back then, he was just a better Kendrick Perkins.

Charles Oakley was an elite rebounder and scoring threat. He was WAY better than Perkins, those two do not compare all

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 01:42 PM
Honestly talent wise and personnel Houston is there, it's not false hope. I just need more trust that cp and harden can handle the playoff pressure from the cf and finals. It will still be an upset like when the Cavs won, but there is a punchers chance. I don't think they are as invincible as i thought pre-season.

I don't agree talent wise Houston is on the same level at all.

GS has 2 top 20 players ever once the dust settles, in their peaks at the same time. They also have a perennial all NBA member in his peak. They also have a 4th guy who lives on all star teams and would be the best shooter in the game if not for his teammate existing. They also have a bench guy who won finals MVP a few years ago.

Not sure how people don't understand what GS is. Injuries are all that will stop them right now. Adding Durant closed the book on the rest of the league.

I know Harden is the runaway MVP, but would anyone really take him over either Durant or Curry come playoff time?

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 01:44 PM
agree with the first part... can't agree to the bolded

We very briefly went through this, you ghosted on it for some reason (disappeared).

The early 80's Lakers you fought for, had a lot of names, but those names weren't all in their primes/peaks. Since the merger, there has never been a team with this much talent all in their absolute primes.

If we were magically move this GS team back to 1990, well they would flip Klay for a big, but as far as measuring against their success, dominance, and roster, this GS team is the best I have seen. The only gripe is lack of bench power, and that is due to salary structure/FA today.

GS is THE reason I have followed basketball less and less the last 2 years (I barely watch anymore). There is no suspense in the NBA season anymore. Unless GS is killed with injuries, it's a wrap.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 01:50 PM
which rules do we play under... that GS team loses to a ton of teams under the old rules

GS doesn't have the same roster with the old rules though...and vice versa. Really think anyone has a dominant trench big man who can't shoot or guard outside the paint today?

FlashBolt
03-15-2018, 02:06 PM
We very briefly went through this, you ghosted on it for some reason (disappeared).

The early 80's Lakers you fought for, had a lot of names, but those names weren't all in their primes/peaks. Since the merger, there has never been a team with this much talent all in their absolute primes.

If we were magically move this GS team back to 1990, well they would flip Klay for a big, but as far as measuring against their success, dominance, and roster, this GS team is the best I have seen. The only gripe is lack of bench power, and that is due to salary structure/FA today.

GS is THE reason I have followed basketball less and less the last 2 years (I barely watch anymore). There is no suspense in the NBA season anymore. Unless GS is killed with injuries, it's a wrap.

Yes, exactly. Warriors have the most stacked talent by far. There's not too many teams that have a player who revolutionized an entire system of how NBA is played and also, another who is better than anyone not named MJ at scoring the ball. And you stick a guy who is top three in DPOY voting year after year as well? Not to even mention Klay is right up there as a GOAT shooter. It's ridiculous how stacked they are. If Warriors lose, it would be one of the biggest letdowns in sports history because they really should not be losing.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 02:58 PM
Yes, exactly. Warriors have the most stacked talent by far. There's not too many teams that have a player who revolutionized an entire system of how NBA is played and also, another who is better than anyone not named MJ at scoring the ball. And you stick a guy who is top three in DPOY voting year after year as well? Not to even mention Klay is right up there as a GOAT shooter. It's ridiculous how stacked they are. If Warriors lose, it would be one of the biggest letdowns in sports history because they really should not be losing.

I mean, injuries to 2 of them, making them either well below normal or out all together, opens the door. Remove either Durant or Curry, and if Houston got hot it might happen too. But GS is so stacked. It's lame dude. I don't even care about the NBA, there is zero parity at this point. Until this team breaks up, gets old, or someone dies, every season is made up drama where most fans convince themselves the devil doesn't exist. Then come June, the devil has them bent over and is giving them the meat.

pebloemer
03-15-2018, 03:36 PM
Cleveland is really far from being the best team in the East right now. I know they've flipped the switch in years past, but I'm skeptical they can keep doing that. I'm not betting on them to make it out of the East. There wasn't a single elite team in the East last year. That has changed this season.

Heediot
03-15-2018, 04:01 PM
I don't agree talent wise Houston is on the same level at all.

GS has 2 top 20 players ever once the dust settles, in their peaks at the same time. They also have a perennial all NBA member in his peak. They also have a 4th guy who lives on all star teams and would be the best shooter in the game if not for his teammate existing. They also have a bench guy who won finals MVP a few years ago.

Not sure how people don't understand what GS is. Injuries are all that will stop them right now. Adding Durant closed the book on the rest of the league.

I know Harden is the runaway MVP, but would anyone really take him over either Durant or Curry come playoff time?

Sorry, what I mean is they have enough talent and the personnel for an upset, not that they are on par talent wise.

I seriously think they have a legit chance at an upset, I just need to be convinced that cp3 and Harden can handle the pressure. I felt good about the Cavs in 16, I would feel good about the upset for the Rox in 18, but I just can't trust the 2 in Houston until proven otherwise.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 04:23 PM
Sorry, what I mean is they have enough talent and the personnel for an upset, not that they are on par talent wise.

I seriously think they have a legit chance at an upset, I just need to be convinced that cp3 and Harden can handle the pressure. I felt good about the Cavs in 16, I would feel good about the upset for the Rox in 18, but I just can't trust the 2 in Houston until proven otherwise.

I can agree with the fact they have enough talent I guess, we all saw them **** the bed in 2016 against Cleveland, and GS used to get too cute for their own good. The Rockets might just catch absolute fire too.

I will put it like this, if they played 10 seven game series, I would expect the Warriors to win 8-9 of them.

Bostonjorge
03-15-2018, 04:29 PM
Cleveland dropped to 4th to play Toronto in the second round. Cleveland always seems to land where they want to land to play who they want.

FlashBolt
03-15-2018, 04:36 PM
What's with these narratives?

Just like last year the Cavs tanked to avoid the Wizards, right?

If anything, I imagine the Cavs would rather play Boston. They're super banged up and not as good of a team as Toronto.

BostonJorge hates LeBron. He'll say and do anything to make crap up.

Vee-Rex
03-15-2018, 04:38 PM
Cleveland dropped to 4th to play Toronto in the second round. Cleveland always seems to land where they want to land to play who they want.

What's with these narratives?

Just like last year the Cavs tanked to avoid the Wizards, right?

If anything, I imagine the Cavs would rather play Boston. They're super banged up and not as good of a team as Toronto.

R. Johnson#3
03-15-2018, 05:04 PM
You two are like an old married couple. It's kinda cute.

I'm just trying to elevate his trolling game. It's pretty shaky....kinda like Wade's knees.

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 05:45 PM
I'm just trying to elevate his trolling game. It's pretty shaky....kinda like Wade's knees.

I think my trolling game is championship level, like the 3 Wade has. Wish he could win as many as the Raptors......oh wait. Well at worst maybe he can have as many finals appearances as the Raptors.....oh wait again!!!

WaDe03
03-15-2018, 05:46 PM
How can you talk bad about a player that has accomplished more than your entire franchises history? I'll never understand this.

Pfeifer
03-15-2018, 06:57 PM
What's with these narratives?

Just like last year the Cavs tanked to avoid the Wizards, right?

If anything, I imagine the Cavs would rather play Boston. They're super banged up and not as good of a team as Toronto.

Im really interested to see how the Cavs fair in the playoffs. Lebron is going off right now and they still lose to bad teams. Never count out Lebron but it doesnt look good at the moment. The same feeling people get about always having a chance with Lebron is my fear about the Raptors choking. I dont think it happens this year bit its always in the back of my mind until they het over that hump.

nastynice
03-15-2018, 07:47 PM
you're nuts.

I didn't watch bird real time, but I seen some of his games and I don't see where exactly bird would be rolling over kd. There's maybe a handful of players (outside of centers) that KD can't match up with and stop in the league today, why would I assume he can't stop bird?

nastynice
03-15-2018, 07:48 PM
None of what you said makes any sense and you think KD can stop Bird so you're not worth giving more time to.

Haha, sure bro. Who's having trouble with that English language now? ;)

ewing
03-15-2018, 08:21 PM
I didn't watch bird real time, but I seen some of his games and I don't see where exactly bird would be rolling over kd. There's maybe a handful of players (outside of centers) that KD can't match up with and stop in the league today, why would I assume he can't stop bird?

Bc he scored routinely from every spot on the floor with defenders draped on him. Why would you assume KD would stop him? His length might make him a better up then many but that doesnít mean Bird doesnít torch you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nastynice
03-15-2018, 08:33 PM
Bc he scored routinely from every spot on the floor with defenders draped on him. Why would you assume KD would stop him? His length might make him a better up then many but that doesnít mean Bird doesnít torch you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're more familiar with him than me, but I just can't see bird either getting by him or shooting over him with any consistency. KD legitimately is a physical freak with elite skill, he's both quicker and longer by a significant margin,capable of defending from the rim out to the 3 pt line.

ewing
03-15-2018, 09:14 PM
You're more familiar with him than me, but I just can't see bird either getting by him or shooting over him with any consistency. KD legitimately is a physical freak with elite skill, he's both quicker and longer by a significant margin,capable of defending from the rim out to the 3 pt line.


he could have the measurables of a guy from Mars, dude got rolling it wouldn't matter.

Cal827
03-15-2018, 09:38 PM
You two are like an old married couple. It's kinda cute.

Why aren't you outraged? He's cheating on Giannis Damn it! :laugh2:

R. Johnson#3
03-15-2018, 10:32 PM
I think my trolling game is championship level, like the 3 Wade has. Wish he could win as many as the Raptors......oh wait. Well at worst maybe he can have as many finals appearances as the Raptors.....oh wait again!!!

You better back up, I don't think you have enough road to get up to 88.

tredigs
03-15-2018, 10:35 PM
I mean, injuries to 2 of them, making them either well below normal or out all together, opens the door. Remove either Durant or Curry, and if Houston got hot it might happen too. But GS is so stacked. It's lame dude. I don't even care about the NBA, there is zero parity at this point. Until this team breaks up, gets old, or someone dies, every season is made up drama where most fans convince themselves the devil doesn't exist. Then come June, the devil has them bent over and is giving them the meat.
You're bordering on some "old man yells at cloud" nonsense here. Golden State is not beating Houston without a healthy Curry and his cast.

FlashBolt
03-16-2018, 07:43 AM
You're bordering on some "old man yells at cloud" nonsense here. Golden State is not beating Houston without a healthy Curry and his cast.

*Unless Harden and CP3 repeat their playoff games of the past.*

Let's not act like Houston won't somehow fck it up as well.

WaDe03
03-16-2018, 09:14 AM
You better back up, I don't think you have enough road to get up to 88.

I'm just stating facts baby girl

Hawkeye15
03-16-2018, 09:35 AM
You're bordering on some "old man yells at cloud" nonsense here. Golden State is not beating Houston without a healthy Curry and his cast.

a healthy Klay, Durant, and Green is enough to beat Houston.

Did you miss where I pointed out that Harden and Paul somehow find a way to underperform at the worst moments so many times? Until they change that, why should we believe in them? Do people already forget Harden versus Portland, or Harden in his last playoff game last year? Or Paul's odd failures?

If you are depending on Eric Gordon to be Jason Terry from 2011, I guess that works too.

Not trying to be a smart ***, but GS won 73 games, and a title, with a team as talented as a Curry-less Warriors. Why can't they do it again? Plus he has forever to heal. GS for sure won't need him in round 1.

FlashBolt
03-16-2018, 09:36 AM
a healthy Klay, Durant, and Green is enough to beat Houston.

Did you miss where I pointed out that Harden and Paul somehow find a way to underperform at the worst moments so many times? Until they change that, why should we believe in them? Do people already forget Harden versus Portland, or Harden in his last playoff game last year? Or Paul's odd failures?

If you are depending on Eric Gordon to be Jason Terry from 2011, I guess that works too.

Not trying to be a smart ***, but GS won 73 games, and a title, with a team as talented as a Curry-less Warriors. Why can't they do it again? Plus he has forever to heal. GS for sure won't need him in round 1.

Wow, completely forgot about that.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3992/year/2014/james-harden

That was terrible. Sheesh.

WaDe03
03-16-2018, 11:24 AM
974665650806308864

Skip Bayless at his finest lol! S/O to locker room cancer Wade for ruining this new Cavs team!

nastynice
03-16-2018, 12:49 PM
974665650806308864

Skip Bayless at his finest lol! S/O to locker room cancer Wade for ruining this new Cavs team!
He may be a locker room cancer, but at this point he's in Miami. Don't see how you can blame any of this on him

Although I guess he did create such a broken atmosphere to begin with, good point

WaDe03
03-16-2018, 01:20 PM
He may be a locker room cancer, but at this point he's in Miami. Don't see how you can blame any of this on him

Although I guess he did create such a broken atmosphere to begin with, good point

Yea he's ruined Cleveland Chicago and Miami

IKnowHoops
03-16-2018, 01:25 PM
That's my point. There are players in the 90's that would never make it in today's NBA just because it's more skill-oriented than anything. And how many international players were there in the 90's? The only thing that has changed are the rules. Charles Oakley is respected among basketball fans for his toughness but this guy would be like Kendrick Perkins.

Better athlete than Perk

IKnowHoops
03-16-2018, 01:40 PM
This is going to be one fun thread to read through after the eastern conference finals are over. Wonder which one of you will flip back the hardest once it is done.

How quickly yíall forget playoff Lebron...OK

nastynice
03-16-2018, 03:09 PM
Yea he's ruined Cleveland Chicago and Miami

Yea, he's probably the poster boy for talent being outweighed by being a garbage teammate.

I still like him and a fan of his game, but these last couple years show how trulyoverrated he's been thru his career



.. Im totally ****in with you btw :cool:

canzano55
03-16-2018, 03:23 PM
I'm just going to say it:

The Cavs stink.

Yes they have Lebron James but last time I checked NBA basketball is a team sport. The Cavs don't play well as a team.

People need to stop basing everything on last year or the year before. Every season is different. Last year if people remember Richard Jefferson played amazing for Cleveland - he was hitting everything. Kyrie was penetrating with ease and opened up a ton of space while Tristan T was cleaning up on the glass rather well.

This time around it was a salvage operation post-Kyrie that didn't pan out - pre-trade and AND post-trade.

Think of it this way: the Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Nance, and Jordan Clarkson. You don't think Magic would have done that deal last season??

Last point - if Lebron makes it to the finals this season it will happen because the refs absolutely handed it to the Cavaliers per what the networks would prefer. There's no way the Cavaliers are getting to the NBA finals on pure merit; they've earned NOTHING from the regular season and to pretend seeding doesn't matter is damn foolish.

Vee-Rex
03-16-2018, 03:43 PM
I'm just going to say it:

The Cavs stink.

Yes they have Lebron James but last time I checked NBA basketball is a team sport. The Cavs don't play well as a team.

People need to stop basing everything on last year or the year before. Every season is different. Last year if people remember Richard Jefferson played amazing for Cleveland - he was hitting everything. Kyrie was penetrating with ease and opened up a ton of space while Tristan T was cleaning up on the glass rather well.

This time around it was a salvage operation post-Kyrie that didn't pan out - pre-trade and AND post-trade.

Think of it this way: the Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Nance, and Jordan Clarkson. You don't think Magic would have done that deal last season??

Last point - if Lebron makes it to the finals this season it will happen because the refs absolutely handed it to the Cavaliers per what the networks would prefer. There's no way the Cavaliers are getting to the NBA finals on pure merit; they've earned NOTHING from the regular season and to pretend seeding doesn't matter is damn foolish.

As much as I disagreed your post, I was fine with it until the last paragraph. So pathetic.

europagnpilgrim
03-16-2018, 04:59 PM
a healthy Klay, Durant, and Green is enough to beat Houston.

Did you miss where I pointed out that Harden and Paul somehow find a way to underperform at the worst moments so many times? Until they change that, why should we believe in them? Do people already forget Harden versus Portland, or Harden in his last playoff game last year? Or Paul's odd failures?

If you are depending on Eric Gordon to be Jason Terry from 2011, I guess that works too.

Not trying to be a smart ***, but GS won 73 games, and a title, with a team as talented as a Curry-less Warriors. Why can't they do it again? Plus he has forever to heal. GS for sure won't need him in round 1.

Without Curry vs a ''healthy'' Rockets team makes it a coin toss, you have to look at this as KD(actual mvp winner) vs Harden(could have won 1 past 2 yrs, most likely a lock this year), then Klay(all star) vs so called PGod CP3, then Green vs Capela, then bench vs. bench

as of right now today the advantage goes to Rockets, based on how teams are playing and have been playing just this season alone, edge goes to Warriors by a nice lead with proven track record/champs

but its not like Harden and CP3 haven't had playoff success, Harden has a finals trip/WCF also and CP3 has over achieved in the playoffs as well as come up short so they at least know the riggers of it and the two may figure it out but without Curry its even with a small trim edge to Rockets because of bench pieces, but with Curry healthy edge goes directly and rightfully so to Dubs, no question

the reason why they went and got KD was to over front run, Lebron took that KD-less squad to 6 games and won the next year(though suspension had something to do with that) so adding KD was like Warriors knew they had to upgrade to keep LeBron at bay, cavs messed it up by trading irving

LeBron should go west and team up with Portland or spurs or rockets and just get warriors out the way and then have a reverse cake walk instead of out east, have it out west in the finals beating all the better teams, LeBron can finally have his cake and ice cream and presents, 2nd most dominant all time to wilt norman chamberlain if he ends his final peak years winning rings by the media masses who truly know bball

WaDe03
03-16-2018, 05:24 PM
Yea, he's probably the poster boy for talent being outweighed by being a garbage teammate.

I still like him and a fan of his game, but these last couple years show how trulyoverrated he's been thru his career



.. Im totally ****in with you btw :cool:

Honestly, I think he should be banned from the NBA.

Cal827
03-16-2018, 10:22 PM
:facepalm: I know the Refs aren't good, but it's not even the playoffs yet... COME ON MAN :laugh2:

SteBO
03-17-2018, 02:43 PM
I'm just going to say it:

The Cavs stink.

Yes they have Lebron James but last time I checked NBA basketball is a team sport. The Cavs don't play well as a team.

People need to stop basing everything on last year or the year before. Every season is different. Last year if people remember Richard Jefferson played amazing for Cleveland - he was hitting everything. Kyrie was penetrating with ease and opened up a ton of space while Tristan T was cleaning up on the glass rather well.

This time around it was a salvage operation post-Kyrie that didn't pan out - pre-trade and AND post-trade.

Think of it this way: the Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Nance, and Jordan Clarkson. You don't think Magic would have done that deal last season??

Last point - if Lebron makes it to the finals this season it will happen because the refs absolutely handed it to the Cavaliers per what the networks would prefer. There's no way the Cavaliers are getting to the NBA finals on pure merit; they've earned NOTHING from the regular season and to pretend seeding doesn't matter is damn foolish.
Well seeding certainly didnít matter last year in the East, and although this team is by far the weakest since LBJ went back, even with Love healthy, what has Toronto or Boston done in their recent history to make you think the Cavs canít make it to the Finals on merit? I donít know what NBA youíve been watching for the last decade, but the one Iíve watched tells me W/Ls during an 82-game grind fest ,with back-to-backs and injuries to players during certain time periods, means little to nothing come playoff time especially for teams LeBron is on as he has another level he can go to. History tells me so. Burden of proof is on you at this point....

GodsSon
03-17-2018, 03:40 PM
If there's any year since 2010 when LeBron has been vulnerable, this is it. The current Cavaliers are not a good team and deep down LeBron does NOT believe in this roster to take him all the way.

Here's hoping for a Raptors/Rockets Finals with a Raptors win and a blow to the era of the "superteam". Quite the direction change for narrative.

LOb0
03-17-2018, 06:33 PM
If there's any year since 2010 when LeBron has been vulnerable, this is it. The current Cavaliers are not a good team and deep down LeBron does NOT believe in this roster to take him all the way.

Here's hoping for a Raptors/Rockets Finals with a Raptors win and a blow to the era of the "superteam". Quite the direction change for narrative.

Lmao @ the Raptors being the one to end the Warriors run.

Cal827
03-17-2018, 07:29 PM
Lmao @ the Raptors being the one to end the Warriors run.

Well, technically the Rockets would be the one to end the Warriors run in GodSon's hypothetical :D

Bostonjorge
03-18-2018, 08:55 PM
3rd plays Sixers and 4th plays the Pacers and you donít have to play Boston till the East Finals.

4th looks like the way to go.

tredigs
03-19-2018, 01:44 AM
a healthy Klay, Durant, and Green is enough to beat Houston.

Did you miss where I pointed out that Harden and Paul somehow find a way to underperform at the worst moments so many times? Until they change that, why should we believe in them? Do people already forget Harden versus Portland, or Harden in his last playoff game last year? Or Paul's odd failures?

If you are depending on Eric Gordon to be Jason Terry from 2011, I guess that works too.

Not trying to be a smart ***, but GS won 73 games, and a title, with a team as talented as a Curry-less Warriors. Why can't they do it again? Plus he has forever to heal. GS for sure won't need him in round 1.

I have seen enough to know how good this team is. They are a GOAT level offense with a very strong D. Pointing to their single game choke jobs is cute (and I like it), but unfortunately not that relevant. I follow the game more now than ever. Trust me, this team is legit. They have a very legit chance to win it all.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2018, 10:37 AM
I have seen enough to know how good this team is. They are a GOAT level offense with a very strong D. Pointing to their single game choke jobs is cute (and I like it), but unfortunately not that relevant. I follow the game more now than ever. Trust me, this team is legit. They have a very legit chance to win it all.

It's relevant when it happens far more than once...

Until the Rockets prove they can beat the best team I have ever seen play, I won't believe it happens. Like I said, both teams healthy, play 10 series, I can't believe GS doesn't walk away with 8-9 of them in hand. So sure, there is a chance imo.

The Warriors are too good. The Rockets unfortunately picked a wrong time to put forth an amazing team.

SteBO
03-19-2018, 11:01 AM
It's relevant when it happens far more than once...

Until the Rockets prove they can beat the best team I have ever seen play, I won't believe it happens. Like I said, both teams healthy, play 10 series, I can't believe GS doesn't walk away with 8-9 of them in hand. So sure, there is a chance imo.

The Warriors are too good. The Rockets unfortunately picked a wrong time to put forth an amazing team.
Agreed, unless GSW gets ravaged by injuries. Curryís ankle and KDs ribs would worry me....Iíve had a rib injury before; itís excruciating pain to run up and down with, and I have a much bigger build. Will be interested to see how the Warriors play this....

R. Johnson#3
03-19-2018, 11:05 AM
I'm just stating facts baby girl

Too bad you didn't get the reference. Anyways, hop into the Delorean. We gotta get you out of the past.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 11:57 AM
Agreed, unless GSW gets ravaged by injuries. Curryís ankle and KDs ribs would worry me....Iíve had a rib injury before; itís excruciating pain to run up and down with, and I have a much bigger build. Will be interested to see how the Warriors play this....

Some of these injuries.. idk.. There are loopholes to not get fined by NBA for sitting players and this is one of them.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 12:02 PM
As much as I disagreed your post, I was fine with it until the last paragraph. So pathetic.Hey I'm just keeping it real man.

Logically speaking - how does Lebron get past Boston and Toronto with arguably the worst cast of teamates he's had since 2009? He would have to play out of his mind while at the same time JR Smith/Hood/Clarkson etc make most of their shots assuming their defense is even passable.

None of it adds up based on everything we've seen so far but Vegas still has the Cavs as favourites to make it out of the East which says to me that the big money knows the refs are going to help Cleveland. There's no other way to explain it.

valade16
03-19-2018, 12:06 PM
It's relevant when it happens far more than once...

Until the Rockets prove they can beat the best team I have ever seen play, I won't believe it happens. Like I said, both teams healthy, play 10 series, I can't believe GS doesn't walk away with 8-9 of them in hand. So sure, there is a chance imo.

The Warriors are too good. The Rockets unfortunately picked a wrong time to put forth an amazing team.

Agreed.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 12:11 PM
Hey I'm just keeping it real man.

Logically speaking - how does Lebron get past Boston and Toronto with arguably the worst cast of teamates he's had since 2009? He would have to play out of his mind while at the same time JR Smith/Hood/Clarkson etc make most of their shots assuming their defense is even passable.

None of it adds up based on everything we've seen so far but Vegas still has the Cavs as favourites to make it out of the East which says to me that the big money knows the refs are going to help Cleveland. There's no other way to explain it.

Lol at your attempt to explain things. Here goes the conspiracy.. LeBron James makes seven straight NBA Finals but to make it eight, refs help LeBron James. Is that honestly a take you want to stick by? You're from Toronto. I thought you friendly little sister of New York are nice people. You haven't seen the potential of this Cavs team in any sort of degree due to the injuries that have happened since and before the trade. And your Raptors team led by Lowry and DeRozan are the two worst chokers in the playoffs so if you're going to be logical, the only way Raptors beat the Cavs is if Lowry and DeRozan actually play great basketball. How does LeBron and the Cavs get past Boston? Dude, Boston is UNDERMANNED right now. They haven't exactly been a great team.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2018, 12:13 PM
Agreed.

I get that people still want to care about the NBA season, so they either find little things like players they want to watch develop, or to see who on their team might be what later on, or even this season, but we can't pretend a reasonably healthy GS team doesn't win it all. There is no drama in the NBA right now. Barring injuries to GS, they will win this year, and if nothing changes on their roster, next year as well.

Or some just makeup whatever helps them get through this season, and envision the perfect circumstances..

GS has 2 players better than the Rockets top 2. They also have 2 other all NBA level players. Just for fun. They also have perfect chemistry, and the exact recipe of what works in the modern NBA. It's ridiculous what they are. Sure we might forget this during a regular season where every team BUT GS is out to prove what they are. Once the playoffs start, GS will show us again what they are.

Sorry NBA fans, if you like parity, welcome to the most boring few years since the Jordan Bulls run.

SteBO
03-19-2018, 12:20 PM
Some of these injuries.. idk.. There are loopholes to not get fined by NBA for sitting players and this is one of them.
And honestly, genius move by Kerr if this is actually the case. Curryís ankle is not something I would want to chance.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 12:39 PM
Lol at your attempt to explain things. Here goes the conspiracy.. LeBron James makes seven straight NBA Finals ...Playing with great teams. You forgot to add that he played with superstars (bar 2009 Cavs) in an Eastern Conference that hasn't been worth **** for almost 10 years and is just now starting to get more competitive.



Is that honestly a take you want to stick by? You're from Toronto.What does where I come from have to do with anything? You're from Oklahoma I'm guessing? Congratulations.


You haven't seen the potential of this Cavs team in any sort of degree due to the injuries that have happened since and before the trade.That's not an argument. 'Potential' is just a way of describing the unknown in the future. The truth is that there are many futures that are all potential but not all of them are good. I'd say the Cavaliers potential is overvalued based on stats and lack of chemistry - you might disagree and that's fine but I'm basing my points on today's evidence is the point I want to get across.


And your Raptors team led by Lowry and DeRozan are the two worst chokers in the playoffs so if you're going to be logical,They are big playoff chokers - I can't disagree with that. Still; they're chokers who managed to take the Cavs to 6 games two years prior and although they got railroaded last year it was against a team that had multiple stars and role players who made all their shots. But again; that was LAST year.


the only way Raptors beat the Cavs is if Lowry and DeRozan actually play great basketball.Actually there's a few ways they can beat the Cavs because Cleveland is vulnerable and doesn't play very good defense. However; depending on how fair the whistle is could really influence the outcome of the series but even then I still have the Raps winning because sustained defense will get them through.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 12:55 PM
Playing with great teams. You forgot to add that he played with superstars (bar 2009 Cavs) in an Eastern Conference that hasn't been worth **** for almost 10 years and is just now starting to get more competitive.

What does where I come from have to do with anything? You're from Oklahoma I'm guessing? Congratulations.
That's not an argument. 'Potential' is just a way of describing the unknown in the future. The truth is that there are many futures that are all potential but not all of them are good. I'd say the Cavaliers potential is overvalued based on stats and lack of chemistry - you might disagree and that's fine but I'm basing my points on today's evidence is the point I want to get across.
They are big playoff chokers - I can't disagree with that. Still; they're chokers who managed to take the Cavs to 6 games two years prior and although they got railroaded last year it was against a team that had multiple stars and role players who made all their shots. But again; that was LAST year.
Actually there's a few ways they can beat the Cavs because Cleveland is vulnerable and doesn't play very good defense. However; depending on how fair the whistle is could really influence the outcome of the series but even then I still have the Raps winning because sustained defense will get them through.

I understand the plausible scenario Raptors can beat the Cavs but I think the "If Cavs win, most likely refs helped them" argument which you are trying to use. It's just silly. I think Adam Silver would rather the Cavs win the ECF but the NBA would take a massive hit unlike any other if they ever get exposed for something as silly as this. We don't know how the Cavs will play with a fully healthy roster right now as it hasn't been the case but what we do know is that LeBron James can turn it up to a level where sometimes, it just doesn't matter how well an EC team is.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 02:13 PM
Watching cowered, talking about lebron being a coach killer. Legit don't understand why the other thread was closed... Just like with kobe, had that major knock of hero ball, LeBron def has this knock on him of its everyone else's fault, trade them

Getting a little ridiculous at this point. Like kobe vs Boston that first time around, lol

nastynice
03-19-2018, 02:19 PM
Actually there's a few ways they can beat the Cavs because Cleveland is vulnerable and doesn't play very good defense. However; depending on how fair the whistle is could really influence the outcome of the series but even then I still have the Raps winning because sustained defense will get them through.

Raptors look good, Derozan is a flat out stud and clearly having his best year, but once love is back cavs should be favorites again

tredigs
03-19-2018, 02:44 PM
It's relevant when it happens far more than once...

Until the Rockets prove they can beat the best team I have ever seen play, I won't believe it happens. Like I said, both teams healthy, play 10 series, I can't believe GS doesn't walk away with 8-9 of them in hand. So sure, there is a chance imo.

The Warriors are too good. The Rockets unfortunately picked a wrong time to put forth an amazing team.

By and large Paul has been an incredible post season player, despite the stigma. Having him alongside the best version of Harden to date with that cast is just insanely potent. Their D now was been 2nd only to Utah over the past 2 months, and they have no injuries. Harden and Paul being 1/2 in RPM is also not a fluke. They are one of the better teams I have ever seen to be honest.

A series out of 10 (with their HCA) will look more like them winning 3-4 times. I do think the Dubs are still a step ahead, but it is not a big step. And if Curry's ankle flairs up and he has to sit they are simply getting rolled.

Vinylman
03-19-2018, 02:46 PM
Watching cowered, talking about lebron being a coach killer. Legit don't understand why the other thread was closed... Just like with kobe, had that major knock of hero ball, LeBron def has this knock on him of its everyone else's fault, trade them

Getting a little ridiculous at this point. Like kobe vs Boston that first time around, lol

as usual WTF are you talking about.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 02:46 PM
I understand the plausible scenario Raptors can beat the Cavs but I think the "If Cavs win, most likely refs helped them" argument which you are trying to use. It's just silly. I think Adam Silver would rather the Cavs win the ECF but the NBA would take a massive hit unlike any other if they ever get exposed for something as silly as this. We don't know how the Cavs will play with a fully healthy roster right now as it hasn't been the case but what we do know is that LeBron James can turn it up to a level where sometimes, it just doesn't matter how well an EC team is.The refereeing this season has been by and large quite silly overall I'd say - they did whole segment about it on ESPN after the weekend games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nElVQtqlS7s

Look I'm just pointing out what a lot of the pessimists here in Toronto already know to be true - the refs don't particularly favour Toronto in the playoffs, least of all against teams with a superstar. In the same breath I give Boston equal amount of empathy when faced with NBA superstars who bring in ratings. Although the Celtics do have Kyrie Irving you get the feeling that they're not a very popular team this season with the brand of basketball they're showing.

Complaining about refereeing might seem silly to the casual superstar worshipper but it isn't silly for fans that support teams in unpopular markets - its a real problem otherwise I, and others, wouldn't be bringing it up.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 02:54 PM
The refereeing this season has been by and large quite silly overall I'd say - they did whole segment about it on ESPN after the weekend games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nElVQtqlS7s

Look I'm just pointing out what a lot of the pessimists here in Toronto already know to be true - the refs don't particularly favour Toronto in the playoffs, least of all against teams with a superstar. In the same breath I give Boston equal amount of empathy when faced with NBA superstars who bring in ratings. Although the Celtics do have Kyrie Irving you get the feeling that they're not a very popular team this season with the brand of basketball they're showing.

Complaining about refereeing might seem silly to the casual superstar worshipper but it isn't silly for fans that support teams in unpopular markets - its a real problem otherwise I, and others, wouldn't be bringing it up.

So you're claiming the refs have been rigging it the entire season? That's laughable. Bad calls happen every year. We lost to the Warriors two years ago. We choked. No ref helped or didn't help us. It happens. Refs should've helped Warriors if they wanted the fanbase - they didn't.

Vee-Rex
03-19-2018, 02:59 PM
The refereeing this season has been by and large quite silly overall I'd say - they did whole segment about it on ESPN after the weekend games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nElVQtqlS7s

Look I'm just pointing out what a lot of the pessimists here in Toronto already know to be true - the refs don't particularly favour Toronto in the playoffs, least of all against teams with a superstar. In the same breath I give Boston equal amount of empathy when faced with NBA superstars who bring in ratings. Although the Celtics do have Kyrie Irving you get the feeling that they're not a very popular team this season with the brand of basketball they're showing.

Complaining about refereeing might seem silly to the casual superstar worshipper but it isn't silly for fans that support teams in unpopular markets - its a real problem otherwise I, and others, wouldn't be bringing it up.

Everyone feels the refs are bad and against their team. It's one thing to feel that way, it's another to incessantly whine about it.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 03:01 PM
Everyone feels the refs are bad and against their team. It's one thing to feel that way, it's another to incessantly whine about it.

And to claim the NBA in 2017 (where they have been the best performing major sport in America) is trying to rig the series and risk all the reputation and fanbase they have won over the years, is an extremely salty excuse. Saying "only way Cavs can make the Finals is if the refs help him" is laughable. And if you're complaining that the league is fixed, don't watch or support it.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 03:09 PM
So you're claiming the refs have been rigging it the entire season? That's laughable. Bad calls happen every year. We lost to the Warriors two years ago. We choked. No ref helped or didn't help us. It happens. Refs should've helped Warriors if they wanted the fanbase - they didn't.Rigging? I didn't say rigging - I said that teams with superstars get more favourable calls against unpopular market teams. It happens all the time.

I think you're more interested putting words in my mouth than facing the facts of what the NBA is.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 03:13 PM
Everyone feels the refs are bad and against their team. It's one thing to feel that way, it's another to incessantly whine about it.:D

Maybe I should whine with more quality and conviction like the Cavs fanbase did when Lebron left the first time in hope that the NBA gives the Raptors a bunch of first round picks to calm me down...lol

(sorry I couldn't help myself)

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 03:14 PM
Rigging? I didn't say rigging - I said that teams with superstars get more favourable calls against unpopular market teams. It happens all the time.

I think you're more interested putting words in my mouth than facing the facts of what the NBA is.

"Last point - if Lebron makes it to the finals this season it will happen because the refs absolutely handed it to the Cavaliers per what the networks would prefer. There's no way the Cavaliers are getting to the NBA finals on pure merit; they've earned NOTHING from the regular season and to pretend seeding doesn't matter is damn foolish."

Is this not something you said?

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 03:15 PM
:D

Maybe I should whine with more quality and conviction like the Cavs fanbase did when Lebron left the first time in hope that the NBA gives the Raptors a bunch of first round picks to calm me down...lol

(sorry I couldn't help myself)

Salty. lol.

Vee-Rex
03-19-2018, 03:21 PM
:D

Maybe I should whine with more quality and conviction like the Cavs fanbase did when Lebron left the first time in hope that the NBA gives the Raptors a bunch of first round picks to calm me down...lol

(sorry I couldn't help myself)

:laugh2: so original

I love when people try to resort to that - lets me know I got 'em bent over. touche, broseph!

canzano55
03-19-2018, 03:21 PM
"Last point - if Lebron makes it to the finals this season it will happen because the refs absolutely handed it to the Cavaliers per what the networks would prefer. There's no way the Cavaliers are getting to the NBA finals on pure merit; they've earned NOTHING from the regular season and to pretend seeding doesn't matter is damn foolish."

Is this not something you said?

Yes - show me where I said rigging.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy after you add up well-over half of the over calls against you resulting in an unbalanced game and an unbalanced series.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2018, 03:23 PM
By and large Paul has been an incredible post season player, despite the stigma. Having him alongside the best version of Harden to date with that cast is just insanely potent. Their D now was been 2nd only to Utah over the past 2 months, and they have no injuries. Harden and Paul being 1/2 in RPM is also not a fluke. They are one of the better teams I have ever seen to be honest.

A series out of 10 (with their HCA) will look more like them winning 3-4 times. I do think the Dubs are still a step ahead, but it is not a big step. And if Curry's ankle flairs up and he has to sit they are simply getting rolled.

well I'm too lazy to come back and tell you, "told ya so", hopefully its more of a series than I think it will be.

I can't believe you don't see the Warriors have been on complete coast mode all year. it will take injuries to slow them.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 04:12 PM
Yes - show me where I said rigging.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy after you add up well-over half of the over calls against you resulting in an unbalanced game and an unbalanced series.

wtf? saying the refs will help the cavs because the networks prefer the Cavs is exactly what rigging entails... c'mon, I've been to Toronto year after year. People aren't getting this silly, right? And you trying to imply that the refs will help X team when Toronto choking is your biggest concern is an excuse

valade16
03-19-2018, 04:16 PM
well I'm too lazy to come back and tell you, "told ya so", hopefully its more of a series than I think it will be.

I can't believe you don't see the Warriors have been on complete coast mode all year. it will take injuries to slow them.

It's why I didn't put much stock in the Blazers beating the Warriors twice during their run. The Warriors have been on cruise control and have been dealing with injuries all season.

WaDe03
03-19-2018, 04:44 PM
Rigging? I didn't say rigging - I said that teams with superstars get more favourable calls against unpopular market teams. It happens all the time.

I think you're more interested putting words in my mouth than facing the facts of what the NBA is.

Come on man, I hate when people do this ****. You said rigging without actually saying the word. Everyone knew what you meant by it.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 06:23 PM
as usual WTF are you talking about.

Lebrons knock, it's everyone else's fault, is starting to become ridiculous, just as kobes fault, hero ball, became during the finals vs Boston

Its just English bro

nastynice
03-19-2018, 06:27 PM
Everyone feels the refs are bad and against their team. It's one thing to feel that way, it's another to incessantly whine about it.

Derozan definitely got hacked on a game tying shot tho. Given the context, I can't blame for someone airing out over that call

Vee-Rex
03-19-2018, 06:44 PM
Derozan definitely got hacked on a game tying shot tho. Given the context, I can't blame for someone airing out over that call

the L2M says differently. It looked like a foul from the angle I saw, which wasn't a good angle.

either way, most players know that the refs tend to swallow the whistle at the end of games anyway. This is not some giant DAVINCI CONSPIRACY!!!!111 against the Raps. At worse, it's just a bad non-call.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 06:48 PM
the L2M says differently. It looked like a foul from the angle I saw, which wasn't a good angle.

either way, most players know that the refs tend to swallow the whistle at the end of games anyway. This is not some giant DAVINCI CONSPIRACY!!!!111 against the Raps. At worse, it's just a bad non-call.

What's l2m?

Im all for refs swallowing whistles late, but that was just a flat out hack. That's gotta get called

If I can spot a clear foul real time, ref should def be able to pick it up

Vee-Rex
03-19-2018, 06:53 PM
What's l2m?

Im all for refs swallowing whistles late, but that was just a flat out hack. That's gotta get called

If I can spot a clear foul real time, ref should def be able to pick it up

the last 2 minute report from the NBA on the refs

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 07:34 PM
That play where DeRozan got "fouled" could go both ways. Look at the replay and actually use your eyes. DeRozan may have gotten a slight swipe from the right hand side (caused by Adams pushing Brewer, tbh) but before it came to that, DeRozan pushes Brewer out of position.

https://youtu.be/0Pma5q6wTLY?t=32 === Play happens at 32 sec - 33 sec. DeRozan clearly lowers his elbow and pushes Brewer off balance to where he has to recover from that push. If anything, the ref probably let contact slide from both sides and wasn't going to call regardless of what DeRozan or Brewer did.

I hate how people just whine about stuff without actually knowing what they're talking about. Seriously. If you're going to whine or point out a foul that player or team X didn't get, talk about the stuff they get away with against team Y as well. Otherwise, just shut up.

aman_13
03-19-2018, 07:51 PM
the L2M says differently. It looked like a foul from the angle I saw, which wasn't a good angle.

either way, most players know that the refs tend to swallow the whistle at the end of games anyway. This is not some giant DAVINCI CONSPIRACY!!!!111 against the Raps. At worse, it's just a bad non-call.

Did it really? Talk about ********. I saw the side angle, he got arm and his follow through got the ball.

aman_13
03-19-2018, 07:57 PM
That play where DeRozan got "fouled" could go both ways. Look at the replay and actually use your eyes. DeRozan may have gotten a slight swipe from the right hand side (caused by Adams pushing Brewer, tbh) but before it came to that, DeRozan pushes Brewer out of position.

https://youtu.be/0Pma5q6wTLY?t=32 === Play happens at 32 sec - 33 sec. DeRozan clearly lowers his elbow and pushes Brewer off balance to where he has to recover from that push. If anything, the ref probably let contact slide from both sides and wasn't going to call regardless of what DeRozan or Brewer did.

I hate how people just whine about stuff without actually knowing what they're talking about. Seriously. If you're going to whine or point out a foul that player or team X didn't get, talk about the stuff they get away with against team Y as well. Otherwise, just shut up.

I don't see anything wrong with DeMar initiating contact there. There wasn't a push off with his arm and how many times have we seen Harden or LeBron get away with that?

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 07:59 PM
I don't see anything wrong with DeMar initiating contact there. There wasn't a push off with his arm and how many times have we seen Harden or LeBron get away with that?

What do you mean? He clearly lowers his left arm and Brewer gets shoved from that momentum. Why else would DeRozan lower his elbow? And I'm not sure what LeBron and Harden getting away with has anything to do with that game. Point is, if we're going to call a foul on Brewer for that (where he was PUSHED out of position by DeRozan), no one talks about DeRozan fouling Brewer?

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:04 PM
That play where DeRozan got "fouled" could go both ways. Look at the replay and actually use your eyes. DeRozan may have gotten a slight swipe from the right hand side (caused by Adams pushing Brewer, tbh) but before it came to that, DeRozan pushes Brewer out of position.

https://youtu.be/0Pma5q6wTLY?t=32 === Play happens at 32 sec - 33 sec. DeRozan clearly lowers his elbow and pushes Brewer off balance to where he has to recover from that push. If anything, the ref probably let contact slide from both sides and wasn't going to call regardless of what DeRozan or Brewer did.

I hate how people just whine about stuff without actually knowing what they're talking about. Seriously. If you're going to whine or point out a foul that player or team X didn't get, talk about the stuff they get away with against team Y as well. Otherwise, just shut up.

That's a great video, DEFINITELY robbed derozan. At least it's just a regular season game, would hate to see that in the playoffs. I think a non call on the push off is the right call, def shoulda called derozan tho. Straight up hack, missed call, it happens

aman_13
03-19-2018, 08:06 PM
What do you mean? He clearly lowers his left arm and Brewer gets shoved from that momentum. Why else would DeRozan lower his elbow? And I'm not sure what LeBron and Harden getting away with has anything to do with that game. Point is, if we're going to call a foul on Brewer for that (where he was PUSHED out of position by DeRozan), no one talks about DeRozan fouling Brewer?

He went shoulder in and didn't extend his arm. I've seen that as a play on countless times.

Slow it down :



https://youtu.be/ybRv-wUFun0

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 08:06 PM
I don't really consider that a foul. Even if it wasn't the 4th quarter I'd still be surprised to see a ref call that, they almost always let it go. Brewer fouling derozan is a foul every time, wether the ref caught it or not is a diff story

So people are only allowed to cry about certain fouls? I didn't even watch the game. It could have been a poorly officiated game that went against the Raptors. I don't know. But that play happens every other day but because Toronto has seen a sudden surge of NBA fans, their market is getting bigger and people just like to start complaining about stuff they would never complain about years ago. It's a foul. He pushes Brewer. End of story. Brewer doesn't magically get off balance out of nowhere. Brewer was right in front of DeRozan but you're telling me he somehow ends up on DeRozan's right side?

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:06 PM
What do you mean? He clearly lowers his left arm and Brewer gets shoved from that momentum. Why else would DeRozan lower his elbow? And I'm not sure what LeBron and Harden getting away with has anything to do with that game. Point is, if we're going to call a foul on Brewer for that (where he was PUSHED out of position by DeRozan), no one talks about DeRozan fouling Brewer?

I don't really consider that a foul. Even if it wasn't the 4th quarter I'd still be surprised to see a ref call that, they almost always let it go. Brewer fouling derozan is a foul every time, wether the ref caught it or not is a diff story

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:07 PM
He went shoulder in and didn't extend his arm. I've seen that as a play on countless times.

Slow it down :



https://youtu.be/ybRv-wUFun0

Yup, it's usually that arm extension that draws the call, derozan didn't extend

aman_13
03-19-2018, 08:09 PM
Yup, it's usually that arm extension that draws the call, derozan didn't extend

Exactly!

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 08:12 PM
Exactly!

Refs leave the rule vague but this is an offensive foul. Brewer was in position to where DeRozan is going. Brewer gets pushed out of position by contact created from DeRozan's left arm. I'm not sure what's there to argue. If DeRozan doesn't lower his left arm to create that contact, Brewer is in front of him and DeRozan won't get a clear open shot at the rim. That wasn't even a foul on Brewer but Steven Adams.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:19 PM
So people are only allowed to cry about certain fouls? I didn't even watch the game. It could have been a poorly officiated game that went against the Raptors. I don't know. But that play happens every other day but because Toronto has seen a sudden surge of NBA fans, their market is getting bigger and people just like to start complaining about stuff they would never complain about years ago. It's a foul. He pushes Brewer. End of story. Brewer doesn't magically get off balance out of nowhere. Brewer was right in front of DeRozan but you're telling me he somehow ends up on DeRozan's right side?

Using your shoulder to move a defender is used and not called in every single game. Wether it's technically a foul or not I don't know, but it's never called and so players make it a part of their game with that understanding.

Derozan getting hit directly on the arm, hard enough to alter his grip on the ball and his entire shooting motion, that's gotta be called.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:20 PM
Refs leave the rule vague but this is an offensive foul. Brewer was in position to where DeRozan is going. Brewer gets pushed out of position by contact created from DeRozan's left arm. I'm not sure what's there to argue. If DeRozan doesn't lower his left arm to create that contact, Brewer is in front of him and DeRozan won't get a clear open shot at the rim. That wasn't even a foul on Brewer but Steven Adams.

If this is the case, and it's a battle you're willing to fight, how come you're not bringing this up in every single game. Ball handlers make that move in legit every single game

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 08:20 PM
He went shoulder in and didn't extend his arm. I've seen that as a play on countless times.

Slow it down :



https://youtu.be/ybRv-wUFun0

I did slow it down to .25. That's how I even saw DeRozan lower his left arm to create space. Can you explain to me how Brewer ends up in front of DeRozan and then completely out of his path within a second later? The only reason Brewer even "fouled" DeRozan was because Adams pushed him. Brewer was completely out of position.

FlashBolt
03-19-2018, 08:23 PM
Using your shoulder to move a defender is used and not called in every single game. Wether it's technically a foul or not I don't know, but it's never called and so players make it a part of their game with that understanding.

Derozan getting hit directly on the arm, hard enough to alter his grip on the ball and his entire shooting motion, that's gotta be called.

It explains why Brewer was out of position and hence, the foul happened because DeRozan pushed him away and then Adams had to push Brewer back to create the contact.


If this is the case, and it's a battle you're willing to fight, how come you're not bringing this up in every single game. Ball handlers make that move in legit every single game

Cause I'm not the one crying about this as if it's some conspiracy against the Raptors and it just so happens to be vs the OKC - who has had the WORST refs in their games this season.

aman_13
03-19-2018, 08:27 PM
Refs leave the rule vague but this is an offensive foul. Brewer was in position to where DeRozan is going. Brewer gets pushed out of position by contact created from DeRozan's left arm. I'm not sure what's there to argue. If DeRozan doesn't lower his left arm to create that contact, Brewer is in front of him and DeRozan won't get a clear open shot at the rim. That wasn't even a foul on Brewer but Steven Adams.

Well we just disagree on what we are seeing. I don't want to come off as the Thunder stole it or the Raps lost because of the refs. The Thunder deserved that win. I just see it as shoulder first and I've seen it as a non call many times.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 08:31 PM
It explains why Brewer was out of position and hence, the foul happened because DeRozan pushed him away and then Adams had to push Brewer back to create the contact.



Cause I'm not the one crying about this as if it's some conspiracy against the Raptors and it just so happens to be vs the OKC - who has had the WORST refs in their games this season.

Oh, haha, just remembered you're a thunder fan, now it makes sense. I was like what a random play for someone to complain about.

I don't know about conspiracy, just a blown call, it happens, just hope it doesn't happen in a playoff game

tredigs
03-19-2018, 09:05 PM
well I'm too lazy to come back and tell you, "told ya so", hopefully its more of a series than I think it will be.

I can't believe you don't see the Warriors have been on complete coast mode all year. it will take injuries to slow them.
Well I hope you're right, but unfortunately Houston seems to be that good. Just expecting guys to "choke" is a scary proposition. It's going to be a hell of a series if it goes down at full strength with Houston having HCA.

The Warriors have not been coasting all year. Just now (partially because they know they can't catch Houston).

nastynice
03-19-2018, 09:22 PM
Well I hope you're right, but unfortunately Houston seems to be that good. Just expecting guys to "choke" is a scary proposition. It's going to be a hell of a series if it goes down at full strength with Houston having HCA.

The Warriors have not been coasting all year. Just now (partially because they know they can't catch Houston).

Yea, choker labels overrated, all 3 are in superior situations now than ever before, plus harden is ridiculous

Yep, it'll be in Houston, but I think it's better that way. Going up 2-0 after two games in Houston rather than Oakland is gonna have a diff effect on all the haters, I'm looking forward to it and the reactions it's going to elicit :smoking:

tredigs
03-19-2018, 10:05 PM
Yea, choker labels overrated, all 3 are in superior situations now than ever before, plus harden is ridiculous

Yep, it'll be in Houston, but I think it's better that way. Going up 2-0 after two games in Houston rather than Oakland is gonna have a diff effect on all the haters, I'm looking forward to it and the reactions it's going to elicit :smoking:

Yeah, checking the odds now. The Warriors are -120 and the Rockets +120. Basically that's them saying it is a toss up.

nastynice
03-19-2018, 10:11 PM
Yeah, checking the odds now. The Warriors are -120 and the Rockets +120. Basically that's them saying it is a toss up.

I know, I still be talkin **** tho

It's almost playoff time :)

tredigs
03-19-2018, 10:27 PM
I know, I still be talkin **** tho

It's almost playoff time :)

I mean I am about to drop a bucket full on the Warriors tomorrow. But, to think it's not going to be a series at this point is crazy.

canzano55
03-19-2018, 11:19 PM
wtf? saying the refs will help the cavs because the networks prefer the Cavs is exactly what rigging entails... c'mon, I've been to Toronto year after year. People aren't getting this silly, right? And you trying to imply that the refs will help X team when Toronto choking is your biggest concern is an excuseYou can try and bait me all day :D I don't really care to be honest.

What amazes me, though, is this earnest attempt by you and others to tell me (and other 'silly' fans like me I suppose) that complaining about refereeing is a scant protest because afterall "bad calls go both ways" and making a fuss about refs is "an excuse for my team's inefficiencies/shortcomings" etc.

Not that I want to shatter your version of reality but I think its time you were told that the NBA is not a sacred cow. Its as flawed as any other professional league out there, probably even more so as evidenced by intelligent writers and pundits who track the data and can prove that there is unbalanced officiating going on in the league. Its likely not a conspiracy (real conspiracies/coverups are actually very hard to excute - anyone who is well read knows that) - the fact that networks would prefer certain teams over others is coincidental in relation to how games are officiated, but that doesn't make partial officiating any less true.

My opinion is rooted in skepticism - skepticism when it comes to a team like the Cleveland Cavaliers who rank mediocre (and in some cases very very mediocre) on almost every team stat but could somehow reach the NBA finals, predicated on the most dramatic and unlikeliest of turnarounds in recent memory with only 11 odd games left in the season to boot.

Its more likely that in an outcome which resulted in the Cavaliers advancing to the NBA finals that it would be based more on a certain amount of 'help' as opposed to the Cavaliers 'figuring out how to play great as a team in a matter of weeks after having the team reconstructed twice in one season'.

Maybe I'm wrong - Love is slowly returning back and its possible he got the Wolverine dna injected in his hand so he's back to 100 percent, and maybe JR Smith doesn't miss a shot, and maybe Rodney Hood summons the spirit of Ron Artest and maybe Tristan Thompson grabs every rebound...or maybe they're just a mediocre team with a generational talent who's going to need a ton of calls in order to carry them all the way...

Vee-Rex
03-19-2018, 11:40 PM
You can try and bait me all day :D I don't really care to be honest.

What amazes me, though, is this earnest attempt by you and others to tell me (and other 'silly' fans like me I suppose) that complaining about refereeing is a scant protest because afterall "bad calls go both ways" and making a fuss about refs is "an excuse for my team's inefficiencies/shortcomings" etc.

Not that I want to shatter your version of reality but I think its time you were told that the NBA is not a sacred cow. Its as flawed as any other professional league out there, probably even more so as evidenced by intelligent writers and pundits who track the data and can prove that there is unbalanced officiating going on in the league. Its likely not a conspiracy (real conspiracies/coverups are actually very hard to excute - anyone who is well read knows that) - the fact that networks would prefer certain teams over others is coincidental in relation to how games are officiated, but that doesn't make partial officiating any less true.

My opinion is rooted in skepticism - skepticism when it comes to a team like the Cleveland Cavaliers who rank mediocre (and in some cases very very mediocre) on almost every team stat but could somehow reach the NBA finals, predicated on the most dramatic and unlikeliest of turnarounds in recent memory with only 11 odd games left in the season to boot.

Its more likely that in an outcome which resulted in the Cavaliers advancing to the NBA finals that it would be based more on a certain amount of 'help' as opposed to the Cavaliers 'figuring out how to play great as a team in a matter of weeks after having the team reconstructed twice in one season'.

Maybe I'm wrong - Love is slowly returning back and its possible he got the Wolverine dna injected in his hand so he's back to 100 percent, and maybe JR Smith doesn't miss a shot, and maybe Rodney Hood summons the spirit of Ron Artest and maybe Tristan Thompson grabs every rebound...or maybe they're just a mediocre team with a generational talent who's going to need a ton of calls in order to carry them all the way...

Ever think that it would come down to you simply misjudging them as a mediocre team if they made the finals? Or overrating their competition in the East?

IKnowHoops
03-19-2018, 11:48 PM
Hey I'm just keeping it real man.

Logically speaking - how does Lebron get past Boston and Toronto with arguably the worst cast of teamates he's had since 2009? He would have to play out of his mind while at the same time JR Smith/Hood/Clarkson etc make most of their shots assuming their defense is even passable.

None of it adds up based on everything we've seen so far but Vegas still has the Cavs as favourites to make it out of the East which says to me that the big money knows the refs are going to help Cleveland. There's no other way to explain it.

Nah, it wonít be that hard

canzano55
03-20-2018, 12:00 AM
Ever think that it would come down to you simply misjudging them as a mediocre team if they made the finals? Or overrating their competition in the East?You're willing to underestimate the Sixers? The Wiz? Miami?

Be my guest...

Vee-Rex
03-20-2018, 12:07 AM
You're willing to underestimate the Sixers? The Wiz? Miami?

Be my guest...

You didn't answer my question and you're deflecting.

I said if the Cavs make the finals, would you consider the possibility that you misjudged them as a mediocre team, or overrated the others?

tredigs
03-20-2018, 02:15 AM
You didn't answer my question and you're deflecting.

I said if the Cavs make the finals, would you consider the possibility that you misjudged them as a mediocre team, or overrated the others?

To respond to that question (that I realize is not directed toward me), the Cavs are expected to make the Finals. Choosing another team is still the "long shot". But, in my opinion, the Raptors are actually the better team this year, and credit to LBJ if he can pull off that win. They have no business getting slapped around in the Finals this year if they make it that far.

MTA12
03-20-2018, 02:37 AM
I agree with op.
There's too much locker room drama.
The defense is abysmal.
It seems like they're trying to quick fix things because LeBron's (inevitable) departure is looming, but they didn't realize that their fate was sealed when they traded Kyrie. Should've traded Bron also and just built for the future, don't know why they thought they had a chance to usurp the Warriors with just Bron.

FlashBolt
03-20-2018, 07:21 AM
You can try and bait me all day :D I don't really care to be honest.

What amazes me, though, is this earnest attempt by you and others to tell me (and other 'silly' fans like me I suppose) that complaining about refereeing is a scant protest because afterall "bad calls go both ways" and making a fuss about refs is "an excuse for my team's inefficiencies/shortcomings" etc.

Not that I want to shatter your version of reality but I think its time you were told that the NBA is not a sacred cow. Its as flawed as any other professional league out there, probably even more so as evidenced by intelligent writers and pundits who track the data and can prove that there is unbalanced officiating going on in the league. Its likely not a conspiracy (real conspiracies/coverups are actually very hard to excute - anyone who is well read knows that) - the fact that networks would prefer certain teams over others is coincidental in relation to how games are officiated, but that doesn't make partial officiating any less true.

My opinion is rooted in skepticism - skepticism when it comes to a team like the Cleveland Cavaliers who rank mediocre (and in some cases very very mediocre) on almost every team stat but could somehow reach the NBA finals, predicated on the most dramatic and unlikeliest of turnarounds in recent memory with only 11 odd games left in the season to boot.

Its more likely that in an outcome which resulted in the Cavaliers advancing to the NBA finals that it would be based more on a certain amount of 'help' as opposed to the Cavaliers 'figuring out how to play great as a team in a matter of weeks after having the team reconstructed twice in one season'.

Maybe I'm wrong - Love is slowly returning back and its possible he got the Wolverine dna injected in his hand so he's back to 100 percent, and maybe JR Smith doesn't miss a shot, and maybe Rodney Hood summons the spirit of Ron Artest and maybe Tristan Thompson grabs every rebound...or maybe they're just a mediocre team with a generational talent who's going to need a ton of calls in order to carry them all the way...

Just admit you used a poor choice of word by saying the game was rigged if the Cavs won and we can move on. Or you can continue deflecting and making it seem as if I'm the one creating random arguments.. everyone here know what you said.. "If Cavs win, it's because the refs choose who the network prefers. No way Cavs deserve this after their playoff record and the seeding does matter." Lol. The regular season standings have been irrelevant since teams realized it's better to stay healthy than not be healthy. How many times did Cleveland lead the league in the standings the past four years? Here's a hint.. one time. How many times did they reach the Finals? All the years. It's not a conspiracy or rigged if Cavs win. It'll be because you underestimated the guy who has been destroying the East for seven years. And it'll be also due to your underestimation of how bad Lowry and DeRozan can be when it matters.

FlashBolt
03-20-2018, 07:46 AM
LeBron has never shot under 50% vs DeRozan's Raptors in the playoffs. You guys have nothing for him. He'll put the clamps on DeRozan if needed just like he did last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0C3el_99Kw

And LeBron knows all the Raptors trash talk going on. He'll be more motivated vs the Raptors than the Warriors. Good luck. And I hope this will be a learning lesson for Raptors fans because it's like this every year. "This is the year." Like I've said.. been to Toronto year after year, you guys have an insane truckload of bandwagon fans more than ever. I've never seen anything like it other than when everyone became a Heat fan seven years ago.

Vinylman
03-20-2018, 08:22 AM
Lebrons knock, it's everyone else's fault, is starting to become ridiculous, just as kobes fault, hero ball, became during the finals vs Boston

Its just English bro

yeah... kobe is why the Lakers lost to the Celtics in 2008

SMFH

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 08:41 AM
Well I hope you're right, but unfortunately Houston seems to be that good. Just expecting guys to "choke" is a scary proposition. It's going to be a hell of a series if it goes down at full strength with Houston having HCA.

The Warriors have not been coasting all year. Just now (partially because they know they can't catch Houston).

oh I am not basing my prediction on the choke. Houston simply isn't as good as GS. The mere fact their 2 best players have notorious timing on ******** the bed come playoffs many times is just a sidebar. I mean, as good as Houston's top 2 players are, I think GS has 2 better players. Then those other 2 guys, you know, the all NBA players in Green/Klay, etc.

GS is more talented, and better, as well as proven.

I hope you are right as well dude, trust me. The NBA season is so boring. These Warriors went 16-0 against the west last year come playoff time. Let that sink in. I get the rosters are a little different elsewhere, but did any team get THAT much better? Meh.

Greatest team in history. I guess some may feel it's early for me to say that. But I know what I am watching. Once the real games start, injuries are about all I can see stopping them. Or sheer complacency, but I don't think that happens.

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 09:30 AM
I feel like Col. Trautman talking about Rambo here

Jamiecballer
03-20-2018, 10:07 AM
Hey I'm just keeping it real man.

Logically speaking - how does Lebron get past Boston and Toronto with arguably the worst cast of teamates he's had since 2009? He would have to play out of his mind while at the same time JR Smith/Hood/Clarkson etc make most of their shots assuming their defense is even passable.

None of it adds up based on everything we've seen so far but Vegas still has the Cavs as favourites to make it out of the East which says to me that the big money knows the refs are going to help Cleveland. There's no other way to explain it.There is a way to explain. They have Lebron James and we don't. If they play to their norm and we do as well it won't even be competitive. BUT they have LeBron James.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

FlashBolt
03-20-2018, 10:09 AM
yeah... kobe is why the Lakers lost to the Celtics in 2008

SMFH

Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 on 40% shooting in the NBA Finals.

I don't know about you but LeBron would get hammered by everyone putting up those numbers. In fact, LeBron's team would lose so bad they would say LeBron quit on his team. And let's not talk about the Finals vs the Pacers.. where Kobe had the worst NBA Finals by a top ten GOAT player.

Jamiecballer
03-20-2018, 10:23 AM
LeBron has never shot under 50% vs DeRozan's Raptors in the playoffs. You guys have nothing for him. He'll put the clamps on DeRozan if needed just like he did last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0C3el_99Kw

And LeBron knows all the Raptors trash talk going on. He'll be more motivated vs the Raptors than the Warriors. Good luck. And I hope this will be a learning lesson for Raptors fans because it's like this every year. "This is the year." Like I've said.. been to Toronto year after year, you guys have an insane truckload of bandwagon fans more than ever. I've never seen anything like it other than when everyone became a Heat fan seven years ago.We are called Canadians Einstein. That bandwagon is called Canada.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 10:33 AM
Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 on 40% shooting in the NBA Finals.

I don't know about you but LeBron would get hammered by everyone putting up those numbers. In fact, LeBron's team would lose so bad they would say LeBron quit on his team. And let's not talk about the Finals vs the Pacers.. where Kobe had the worst NBA Finals by a top ten GOAT player.

Kobe was like 21 at the time, but I get your point. Kobe fans want to use 5 rings, without expanding on the fact that he really didn't do jack to get that first ring. In fact he didn't even play well. So it's kind of like, what do you want? Credit for the 5 rings, or credit for when you played great? Can't have them both without context..

Kinda why I laugh my *** off when Kobe fans attempt to put him on par with Shaq during that 3 peat.

WaDe03
03-20-2018, 10:58 AM
Flashbolt, you also became a Heat fan though lol

tredigs
03-20-2018, 12:59 PM
oh I am not basing my prediction on the choke. Houston simply isn't as good as GS. The mere fact their 2 best players have notorious timing on ******** the bed come playoffs many times is just a sidebar. I mean, as good as Houston's top 2 players are, I think GS has 2 better players. Then those other 2 guys, you know, the all NBA players in Green/Klay, etc.

GS is more talented, and better, as well as proven.

I hope you are right as well dude, trust me. The NBA season is so boring. These Warriors went 16-0 against the west last year come playoff time. Let that sink in. I get the rosters are a little different elsewhere, but did any team get THAT much better? Meh.

Greatest team in history. I guess some may feel it's early for me to say that. But I know what I am watching. Once the real games start, injuries are about all I can see stopping them. Or sheer complacency, but I don't think that happens.
You think this season is boring? This season has been so fun. The Sixers rise with a healhty Embiid + Simmons, Giannis morphing into full superhuman mode, the nonstop drama in Cleveland, the Raptors playing at an insane level and looking like the first team that has a legit chance to take down Lebron in a decade, AD + Lillard playing out of their minds and leading really impressive runs for both squads, and on and on (Westbrook's probably going to average a triple double again and there is so much going on nobody even cares). Such a great season to me. And lastly, two legit juggernauts in the West who are poised to face off in the WCF if everything breaks decently for them. I maintain that you are severely underestimating how good they are. They have THE best offensive rating in NBA history right now (eclipsing the 16 Warriors, 92 Bulls and 88 Lakers), and now have the 2nd best defensive rating behind Utah over the past 2 months. We're talking about an All Time Great team here. It's going to be a show.

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 01:49 PM
You think this season is boring? This season has been so fun. The Sixers rise with a healhty Embiid + Simmons, Giannis morphing into full superhuman mode, the nonstop drama in Cleveland, the Raptors playing at an insane level and looking like the first team that has a legit chance to take down Lebron in a decade, AD + Lillard playing out of their minds and leading really impressive runs for both squads, and on and on (Westbrook's probably going to average a triple double again and there is so much going on nobody even cares). Such a great season to me. And lastly, two legit juggernauts in the West who are poised to face off in the WCF if everything breaks decently for them. I maintain that you are severely underestimating how good they are. They have THE best offensive rating in NBA history right now (eclipsing the 16 Warriors, 92 Bulls and 88 Lakers), and now have the 2nd best defensive rating behind Utah over the past 2 months. We're talking about an All Time Great team here. It's going to be a show.

I have an 11 month old daughter, my Mom passed after an 11 month bout with cancer, I moved, and my team has Andrew Wiggins, who I can't watch anymore. I am also 42, and over time, most tend to care less about living and breathing sports.

Yes, this season has been boring for me haha. Plus, as I stated, I firmly believe barring injuries, the Warriors win pretty easily anyways. Durant's move made the league suck for a few years. The only way to still love the NBA is to do what you have done. Find other things that interest you that have nothing to do with contending, and then also making up drama by attempting to include another team on the same level as GS. I have always respected your knowledge, perhaps you are right, but if the Rockets beat the Warriors, well then, what a time period, because it will feature 2 of the greatest few teams to ever play...

valade16
03-20-2018, 01:53 PM
The season has been very interesting in the same way college football fans are interested in who wins the conference. It's exciting and fun and there's a lot of subplots, but at the end of the day, we all know Alabama/GS is going to win.

But there have been a lot of great storylines this year, even if "who is going to win the title?" is not among them.

tredigs
03-20-2018, 02:05 PM
I have an 11 month old daughter, my Mom passed after an 11 month bout with cancer, I moved, and my team has Andrew Wiggins, who I can't watch anymore. I am also 42, and over time, most tend to care less about living and breathing sports.

Yes, this season has been boring for me haha. Plus, as I stated, I firmly believe barring injuries, the Warriors win pretty easily anyways. Durant's move made the league suck for a few years. The only way to still love the NBA is to do what you have done. Find other things that interest you that have nothing to do with contending, and then also making up drama by attempting to include another team on the same level as GS. I have always respected your knowledge, perhaps you are right, but if the Rockets beat the Warriors, well then, what a time period, because it will feature 2 of the greatest few teams to ever play...
Really sorry to hear about your mother, but congrats on the baby. The circle of life. I get it, things get in the way, and for me if I was not around the game as much as I am, I would not watch to nearly the extent that I do. I just love the product right now. I think the NBA is peaking in terms of both top tier talent and role players. And while I don't expect the Rockets to take out Golden State, I do think they have a shot, and that it will be a hell of an entertaining series. Small moves like picking up Moute and Tucker to bolster their wing D are quietly huge moves and make them imposing as hell on both ends. We have no answer for Capela's rebounding and size+athleticism either (Jordan Bell with Draymond is our best bet there, but I'm not confident he is ready). Again, the Warriors are very slight favorites in Vegas right now, and I think that's about right.

nastynice
03-20-2018, 02:18 PM
We are called Canadians Einstein. That bandwagon is called Canada.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

lol

FlashBolt
03-20-2018, 02:21 PM
Really sorry to hear about your mother, but congrats on the baby. The circle of life. I get it, things get in the way, and for me if I was not around the game as much as I am, I would not watch to nearly the extent that I do. I just love the product right now. I think the NBA is peaking in terms of both top tier talent and role players. And while I don't expect the Rockets to take out Golden State, I do think they have a shot, and that it will be a hell of an entertaining series. Small moves like picking up Moute and Tucker to bolster their wing D are quietly huge moves and make them imposing as hell on both ends. We have no answer for Capela's rebounding and size+athleticism either (Jordan Bell with Draymond is our best bet there, but I'm not confident he is ready). Again, the Warriors are very slight favorites in Vegas right now, and I think that's about right.

Screw Vegas.. I'm putting the house on the Warriors if they are fully healthy - which they should be with the amount of "injuries" that have sidelined them. Rockets need to click 100%. If Harden has a bad game, they better hope Curry or KD also have a bad game. It doesn't take much for the Warriors to win but it'll take a lot for Rockets to win if Harden or CP3 ain't creating for the rest of the guys. But if Warriors aren't healthy and Rockets have nights where they just shoot lights out, the can take the series. Health is the biggest factor right now. All things being equal, Rockets aren't beating em.

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 02:25 PM
Really sorry to hear about your mother, but congrats on the baby. The circle of life. I get it, things get in the way, and for me if I was not around the game as much as I am, I would not watch to nearly the extent that I do. I just love the product right now. I think the NBA is peaking in terms of both top tier talent and role players. And while I don't expect the Rockets to take out Golden State, I do think they have a shot, and that it will be a hell of an entertaining series. Small moves like picking up Moute and Tucker to bolster their wing D are quietly huge moves and make them imposing as hell on both ends. We have no answer for Capela's rebounding and size+athleticism either (Jordan Bell with Draymond is our best bet there, but I'm not confident he is ready). Again, the Warriors are very slight favorites in Vegas right now, and I think that's about right.

The Rockets have the right recipe, they can theoretically keep up, and can switch, switch, switch on all those picks, I just have this belief the Warriors turn into something else come playoffs, like they did last year. Dude, they just destroyed everyone haha. A 73 win team that won at title and had 2 of the greatest shooters ever added Kevin freakin' Durant. It's just unfair man

Yeah, life gets in the way. My Wolves are also so annoying, so it's hard. I can't stand Wiggins, or Teague, and they play a ton of minutes and piss me off nightly.

tredigs
03-20-2018, 02:32 PM
Screw Vegas.. I'm putting the house on the Warriors if they are fully healthy - which they should be with the amount of "injuries" that have sidelined them. Rockets need to click 100%. If Harden has a bad game, they better hope Curry or KD also have a bad game. It doesn't take much for the Warriors to win but it'll take a lot for Rockets to win if Harden or CP3 ain't creating for the rest of the guys.

I'll be betting game by game on that series if I do at all. Assuming health + them advancing, it also depends on who these guys face in the prior series. If the Spurs get Kawhi back, that's such a **** draw in the 1st round. Ditto whoever has to play this Jazz team that just stopped losing games months ago (ditto the Blazers). And now OKC is firing again too. The road to the WCF's/Finals is an underrated aspect of what level they'll be playing at. That's why I always can't stand how damn weak the East has been during 'Bron's tenure. He goes into most ECF's+Finals after breeeezing through the previous competition.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. I'm definitely expecting a very good series if these two match up at full strength.

tredigs
03-20-2018, 02:39 PM
The Rockets have the right recipe, they can theoretically keep up, and can switch, switch, switch on all those picks, I just have this belief the Warriors turn into something else come playoffs, like they did last year. Dude, they just destroyed everyone haha. A 73 win team that won at title and had 2 of the greatest shooters ever added Kevin freakin' Durant. It's just unfair man

Yeah, life gets in the way. My Wolves are also so annoying, so it's hard. I can't stand Wiggins, or Teague, and they play a ton of minutes and piss me off nightly.

I mean, who did they play in the playoffs last year? A Spurs team without Kawhi, Portland without Nurkic, and a Utah team coming in after a tough 7 game series against the Clippers. Then the Cavs of course, but that wasn't a complete stomping. They were a minute away from being down 1-2 before KD's dagger broke their will and turned the series. The Warriors are GREAT team, don't get me wrong, but I am afraid this is just not going to be as easy as a lot of you guys think. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

nastynice
03-20-2018, 02:39 PM
Yeah, checking the odds now. The Warriors are -120 and the Rockets +120. Basically that's them saying it is a toss up.

Damn, I just thought of this, warriors are -120 to win the series? That's a no brainer. That doesn't even make sense, there's gotta be other factors at play

They must be expecting injuries to affect that series, that's the only way that payout makes sense..

tredigs
03-20-2018, 02:51 PM
Damn, I just thought of this, warriors are -120 to win the series? That's a no brainer. That doesn't even make sense, there's gotta be other factors at play

They must be expecting injuries to affect that series, that's the only way that payout makes sense..

Eh, Vegas (and the sharps who bet all the money and shape these lines) simply see the writing on the wall and realize how great/healthy Houston is, and that no team can be a significant favorite over them right now. Also, the elephant in the room is Curry's ankle, which now again feels like it really could be an issue this post season. I'm hoping he does not play until there is a couple games left and he can get that ligament as strong as possible.

Again, if it's binary and I have to take one of the two, I'd still rather have the Warriors for sure, but that's not an easy bet imo.

valade16
03-20-2018, 02:56 PM
I'll be betting game by game on that series if I do at all. Assuming health + them advancing, it also depends on who these guys face in the prior series. If the Spurs get Kawhi back, that's such a **** draw in the 1st round. Ditto whoever has to play this Jazz team that just stopped losing games months ago (ditto the Blazers). And now OKC is firing again too. The road to the WCF's/Finals is an underrated aspect of what level they'll be playing at. That's why I always can't stand how damn weak the East has been during 'Bron's tenure. He goes into most ECF's+Finals after breeeezing through the previous competition.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. I'm definitely expecting a very good series if these two match up at full strength.

For all the talk of the West coming back down to earth, it's as strong as ever.

FlashBolt
03-20-2018, 03:03 PM
For all the talk of the West coming back down to earth, it's as strong as ever.

It's like 07-08 all over again. East looking better as well.

nastynice
03-20-2018, 03:12 PM
Eh, Vegas (and the sharps who bet all the money and shape these lines) simply see the writing on the wall and realize how great/healthy Houston is, and that no team can be a significant favorite over them right now. Also, the elephant in the room is Curry's ankle, which now again feels like it really could be an issue this post season. I'm hoping he does not play until there is a couple games left and he can get that ligament as strong as possible.

Again, if it's binary and I have to take one of the two, I'd still rather have the Warriors for sure, but that's not an easy bet imo.

At - 120 it's shockingly easy!!

I'm thinking the curry ankle is effecting the odds, that's the only thing that makes sense. Houston is good, but not - 120 good

Bostonjorge
03-20-2018, 04:26 PM
Kobe was like 21 at the time, but I get your point. Kobe fans want to use 5 rings, without expanding on the fact that he really didn't do jack to get that first ring. In fact he didn't even play well. So it's kind of like, what do you want? Credit for the 5 rings, or credit for when you played great? Can't have them both without context..

Kinda why I laugh my *** off when Kobe fans attempt to put him on par with Shaq during that 3 peat.

Kobe first ring was a legendary moment for him. Donít know how you can call it anything more then that?

Game 4 we have injured Kobe who has to lead the team with no Shaq for the first time, on the grandest stage in overtime. With all this pressure, this is when Kobe gave us the first sign that he was pulling on the door to Jordan level good. How is this moment that resulted into a ring a bad series for Kobe?

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/moments/60moments_51-60.html

NBA has that moment in the 60 Greatest Playoffs moments #58.

Hawkeye15
03-20-2018, 04:49 PM
Kobe first ring was a legendary moment for him. Donít know how you can call it anything more then that?

Game 4 we have injured Kobe who has to lead the team with no Shaq for the first time, on the grandest stage in overtime. With all this pressure, this is when Kobe gave us the first sign that he was pulling on the door to Jordan level good. How is this moment that resulted into a ring a bad series for Kobe?

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/moments/60moments_51-60.html

NBA has that moment in the 60 Greatest Playoffs moments #58.

I call it a young player average 15 a game on pretty bad shooting percentages, playing a weaker team with Shaq in his absolute peak on his side.

Kobe was never, and I mean never, Jordan level good. I am not getting roped into the same ****ing argument I spent my first 6 years in here, but Kobe Bryant is a top 10-12 player ever because of longevity at being a top 3-4 player for so damn long. It is not because of his peak, or his absolute best basketball, which would rank well outside the top 15-20 ever. Seriously, the guy was never even the leagues best player in a single year. he was just such a constant in the top 5 discussion, that his resume built up over time.

Different ways to get to the HOF. Kobe built his brick by brick.

MTA12
03-21-2018, 12:24 AM
Kobe was never, and I mean never, Jordan level good. .

If we're talking about peaks maybe, but Kobe was definitely a slightly watered down Jordan in his peak.

TylerSL
03-21-2018, 12:58 AM
Because he will.

Vinylman
03-21-2018, 07:59 AM
Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 on 40% shooting in the NBA Finals.

I don't know about you but LeBron would get hammered by everyone putting up those numbers. In fact, LeBron's team would lose so bad they would say LeBron quit on his team. And let's not talk about the Finals vs the Pacers.. where Kobe had the worst NBA Finals by a top ten GOAT player.

right on cue...

PSD is amazing at the narratives that never die

I respond to a specific comment by one of the least informed posters on the site about the 2008 finals and now one of the sites best at deflecting and convoluting threads enters and creates some straw man about LBJ vs Kobe

enjoy your miserable existence

ewing
03-21-2018, 08:56 AM
Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 on 40% shooting in the NBA Finals.

I don't know about you but LeBron would get hammered by everyone putting up those numbers. In fact, LeBron's team would lose so bad they would say LeBron quit on his team. And let's not talk about the Finals vs the Pacers.. where Kobe had the worst NBA Finals by a top ten GOAT player.

I'm sure you would defend LeBron regardless of how good or bad he plays

Hawkeye15
03-21-2018, 08:59 AM
If we're talking about peaks maybe, but Kobe was definitely a slightly watered down Jordan in his peak.

not maybe, he was never near Jordan's level. He was a poor man's Jordan, yes. Meaning, he visually was a lesser copy.

FlashBolt
03-21-2018, 09:54 AM
right on cue...

PSD is amazing at the narratives that never die

I respond to a specific comment by one of the least informed posters on the site about the 2008 finals and now one of the sites best at deflecting and convoluting threads enters and creates some straw man about LBJ vs Kobe

enjoy your miserable existence

You blame PSD but it's the same narrative being used in any basketball forum. You brought up Kobe possibly not being at fault for 2008 vs Celtics when he wasn't great in that series. I respond back mentioning LeBron because those are standards that you would NEVER give LeBron the fair shake at if he averaged those numbers. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

Vinylman
03-21-2018, 11:54 AM
You blame PSD but it's the same narrative being used in any basketball forum. You brought up Kobe possibly not being at fault for 2008 vs Celtics when he wasn't great in that series. I respond back mentioning LeBron because those are standards that you would NEVER give LeBron the fair shake at if he averaged those numbers. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

no that isn't what I posted...

There was no one to "blame" for the Lakers defeat... the better team who was at full strength won

ewing
03-21-2018, 11:58 AM
You blame PSD but it's the same narrative being used in any basketball forum. You brought up Kobe possibly not being at fault for 2008 vs Celtics when he wasn't great in that series. I respond back mentioning LeBron because those are standards that you would NEVER give LeBron the fair shake at if he averaged those numbers. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

If you donít want to recognize the true King thatís your problem


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

flea
03-21-2018, 06:22 PM
Who will beat them?

East still sucks and 70% of the league is tanking and the other 30% of the league has realized this fact and is treating the regular season as even more of an exhibition than it already is. It's hard to glean a lot from the regular season anymore, if you ever could.

I'll say that the Celtics at full health would beat the Cavs at full health, though it'd be a good series (probably the best series of the entire playoffs). Celts without Irving? Nope. Celts without Horford? Nope. Celts without Brown? Maybe, Tatum is the real deal.

Raptors? I haven't watched them all year but I'm going to watch the game vs. Cavs tonight. Otherwise I have no reason to think they're any better than the last few years. Nice offensive backcourt that beats up on a weak East, but not a real playoff team.

Wizards? They've regressed even as Beal has gotten better. Pacers? Uhhh wasn't this year tank season?

Anyway who cares. Does anyone think the Cavs have a shot at a title, whether it's vs. the Warriors or Rockets or Spurs? At this point I don't but having Lebron means you've got a shot. I'll have to see how the team looks when the games count.

canzano55
03-21-2018, 10:00 PM
You didn't answer my question and you're deflecting.

I said if the Cavs make the finals, would you consider the possibility that you misjudged them as a mediocre team, or overrated the others?If the Cavs continue to average a ton of made threes with Lebron geting 17 assists a game playing 38 minutes like he did against my Raps just now- then yeah; I'll be the first to admit I misjudged the Cavs.

FlashBolt
03-21-2018, 10:00 PM
no that isn't what I posted...

There was no one to "blame" for the Lakers defeat... the better team who was at full strength won

Kobe was terrible in three of the Celtics wins so yes, he is to blame when he was the best player on the Lakers but played like trash... What do you call three games shooting below 35% and also having a +/- of 10 in each of those games?

FlashBolt
03-21-2018, 10:48 PM
The Raptors were smoking hot themselves, particularly in the 1st half.

But you'll never admit it if you were wrong. Ever. I've already deduced that based on your posts. If the Cavs reach the finals, you'll likely flame out on rabid ref-blaming posts and disappear from the main boards until next year.

He's still blaming the refs.

Vee-Rex
03-21-2018, 10:48 PM
If the Cavs continue to average a ton of made threes with Lebron geting 17 assists a game playing 38 minutes like he did against my Raps just now- then yeah; I'll be the first to admit I misjudged the Cavs.

The Raptors were smoking hot themselves, particularly in the 1st half.

But you'll never admit it if you were wrong. Ever. I've already deduced that based on your posts. If the Cavs reach the finals, you'll likely flame out on rabid ref-blaming posts and disappear from the main boards until next year.

canzano55
03-21-2018, 10:55 PM
If the Cavs reach the finals, you'll likely flame out on rabid ref-blaming posts and disappear from the main boards until next year....and if/when LeBron leaves Cleveland we'll probably never see or hear from you again nevermind next season lol.

Vee-Rex
03-21-2018, 11:00 PM
...and if/when LeBron leaves Cleveland we'll probably never see or hear from you again nevermind next season lol.

Here before LeBron returned to Cleveland and will be here after he leaves. :laugh2: get lost, scrub.

FlashBolt
03-21-2018, 11:02 PM
this canzano guy is so salty lmao!

Vee-Rex
03-21-2018, 11:22 PM
this canzano guy is so salty lmao!

:laugh:
:laugh:

https://i.imgflip.com/26vx5s.jpg

Jeffy25
06-02-2018, 10:59 PM
He made the Finals....

nastynice
06-05-2018, 02:52 AM
Told yall never bet against lebron. Unless the opposition is the warriors, aka #teamstacked.

What Jordan was to the league is what lebron is to the garbage *** east, haha

Scoots
06-05-2018, 10:18 AM
He made it