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Rain City
03-08-2018, 06:45 PM
Is he the most underperforming player in the NBA?

I'm interested to hear from fans who watch him more.

I don't know if he can be considered a bust because he is at least an average NBA starting SF who doesn't miss games.

i thought he was a sure thing elite defensive player but he is pretty garbage when i watch. his stats show a #3 option player on a good, but not great team, and for how early we started hearing about him isn't this the time he's supposed to be taking over the NBA?

he was better last couple years, is he playing through an injury?

Did he get the pay day and settle?

Jimmy Butler alpha'd him but i thought when he went down maybe he showed he can lead a team, despite coming off a great game in a L to another WC team in the playoff hunt, it seems he is a complementary player.

Is there something I'm missing. No doubt he has elite athleticism and profile of a superstar but he was dogged with lack of killer instinct that maybe he can't run from?

More-Than-Most
03-08-2018, 07:04 PM
he has everything id want in a prospect so its really insane how he is still the same player he was from when he entered the league... there has been no growth and its shocking.

Heediot
03-08-2018, 07:19 PM
Not the greatest bball iq, doesn't have the grit or bulldog in him, lacks fire... Everything seems to be related to the mental aspect of the game. As a Canadian I was hoping he'd show more and be the next hof player after Nash (I assume Steve get in eventually). Hopefully RJ Barrett proves to be the best top pick (2019) as a Canadian which isn't saying much as Wiggins has disappointed, and Bennett was a colossal bust.

Rain City
03-08-2018, 07:28 PM
he has everything id want in a prospect so its really insane how he is still the same player he was from when he entered the league... there has been no growth and its shocking.

exactly my thoughts. maybe a combination of piquing early and lacking the competitive will elite players have?

he was one of the many "best prospects since Lebron". when i first heard of him in 8th grade he was not only freakish athlete, he had the skills and work ethic to boot. seems like he just settled. i do give him credit for not missing games, most of the great young players can't say that, he doesn't have obnoxious personality or baggage. and does have "good" NBA value and should be able to play a long time and make tons of $ barring injury. as a hoop fan I'm disappointed tho.

ChiSox219
03-08-2018, 07:41 PM
He looked great during the second half of last season and I thought he would take the next step this year but he's actually taken a step back which is disappointing. His shot selection needs to improve a lot

ChiSox219
03-08-2018, 07:44 PM
Not the greatest bball iq, doesn't have the grit or bulldog in him, lacks fire... Everything seems to be related to the mental aspect of the game. As a Canadian I was hoping he'd show more and be the next hof player after Nash (I assume Steve get in eventually). Hopefully RJ Barrett proves to be the best top pick (2019) as a Canadian which isn't saying much as Wiggins has disappointed, and Bennett was a colossal bust.

I was just thinking the other day how Wiggins is the type of player that would benefit from playing a summer with the USA B team in a FIBA cup or something. So many US stars made jumps the season after playing with team USA. You just arent going to get the same experience with a program as young as Canada's

FlashBolt
03-08-2018, 09:03 PM
1) Can't play defense. Too small to guard SF's and too slow or lazy to guard guards.
2) All he does is score.. which is not a problem when you look at guys like Klay doing that but..
3) He can't shoot the ball. Klay spaces the floor. Wiggins is like DeRozan with less efficiency, skill, and all-around game. The guy got paid a huge contract for being a midrange scorer with athleticism. It was a terrible contract extension. Remember when people said Cavs lost out on Wiggins when they got Love? Well, good thing. He is trash.
4) Has a low basketball IQ and hunger. I don't know if it has something to do with his Canadian roots but he doesn't have that drive that a black player from a rougher upbringing would have. He's a suburban black boy.. nothing wrong with that but we are talking about two different personalities. Not trying to generalize but sorta.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-08-2018, 09:18 PM
Thibs isn't doing him any favours. But he doesn't seem to want it.

Rain City
03-08-2018, 09:29 PM
1) Can't play defense. Too small to guard SF's and too slow or lazy to guard guards.
2) All he does is score.. which is not a problem when you look at guys like Klay doing that but..
3) He can't shoot the ball. Klay spaces the floor. Wiggins is like DeRozan with less efficiency, skill, and all-around game. The guy got paid a huge contract for being a midrange scorer with athleticism. It was a terrible contract extension. Remember when people said Cavs lost out on Wiggins when they got Love? Well, good thing. He is trash.
4) Has a low basketball IQ and hunger. I don't know if it has something to do with his Canadian roots but he doesn't have that drive that a black player from a rougher upbringing would have. He's a suburban black boy.. nothing wrong with that but we are talking about two different personalities. Not trying to generalize but sorta.

Klay is an elite defender and spaces the heck out of the floor. Wiggins isn't in the same stratosphere as a player.
watching this game, id take jaylen brown over wiggins. prolly has something to do with player development in BOS, but disappoints how many players have passed wiggins.

Vee-Rex
03-08-2018, 09:41 PM
Hawkeye is a HUUUGE fan of Wiggins. He'll come in and do a mic drop for anyone bashing D-Wig.

FlashBolt
03-09-2018, 12:02 AM
Klay is an elite defender and spaces the heck out of the floor. Wiggins isn't in the same stratosphere as a player.
watching this game, id take jaylen brown over wiggins. prolly has something to do with player development in BOS, but disappoints how many players have passed wiggins.

That's why I added "but" to explain the difference between Klay and Wiggins as "scorers." Yes, Klay is a better defender but they're both there to score the ball. Klay spaces the floor and Wiggins doesn't - which in today's league, is what matters when you have scorers.

Twolves88
03-09-2018, 12:04 AM
Thibs isn't doing him any favours. But he doesn't seem to want it.

That's so far from the truth if anything thibs feeds into his behavior. How else does an inefficient chucker get a mega millions extension? He's our gm as well. Not to mention he gets to play every single game and doesn't ride the pine when he chooses not to play. If anything this contract is what will cost thibs his job long term with the timberwolves.

Twolves88
03-09-2018, 12:06 AM
1) Can't play defense. Too small to guard SF's and too slow or lazy to guard guards.
2) All he does is score.. which is not a problem when you look at guys like Klay doing that but..
3) He can't shoot the ball. Klay spaces the floor. Wiggins is like DeRozan with less efficiency, skill, and all-around game. The guy got paid a huge contract for being a midrange scorer with athleticism. It was a terrible contract extension. Remember when people said Cavs lost out on Wiggins when they got Love? Well, good thing. He is trash.
4) Has a low basketball IQ and hunger. I don't know if it has something to do with his Canadian roots but he doesn't have that drive that a black player from a rougher upbringing would have. He's a suburban black boy.. nothing wrong with that but we are talking about two different personalities. Not trying to generalize but sorta.

Derozen is a great comparison. However, Derozen has been a bit of a chucker but knew that his money was being made by driving into the lane. Something that Wiggins doesn't seem to want to put the effort into to do. Part of his problem is offensive scheme. We have so little ball movement that it just hurts us. If we could get him into some post up situations he might actually be efficient. However, its all iso ball and him standing around waiting his turn to go iso. This is a thibs problem. It honestly would not surprise me if we traded him and all of a sudden hes a freaking all star because someone actually coached him properly. **** I'd take a long list of 3 and d players over wiggins at this point.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-09-2018, 12:25 AM
That's so far from the truth if anything thibs feeds into his behavior. How else does an inefficient chucker get a mega millions extension? He's our gm as well. Not to mention he gets to play every single game and doesn't ride the pine when he chooses not to play. If anything this contract is what will cost thibs his job long term with the timberwolves.

That's exactly why he's not doing Wiggins any favours.

GoferKing_
03-09-2018, 03:54 AM
So overrated. :D

FlashBolt
03-09-2018, 06:11 AM
6-21 from the field. Amazing how people expected him to be the next Jimmy Butler but this guy is far from it. Looks like he just wants to color anime figures when he's on his free time.

WaDe03
03-09-2018, 10:17 AM
He's still the next LeBron.

Hawkeye15
03-09-2018, 10:32 AM
This will likely come off as overly harsh, but I don't care.

Wiggins, is a complete waste of talent. Some like to point to his age, and claim he has so much room to develop. The dude has started over 300 NBA games, had a star usage rate since day 1, and hasn't developed at all. In fact, he has regressed. At least his first 2 years, he was a foul drawing machine that made up for his terrible shot selection and lack of 3 point shot with tons of free throws. At some point last year, he decided he doesn't care to go find contact anymore, so that one positive with his scoring disappeared. He is allergic to anything that will get him dirty. He refuses to rebound, or create for anyone else. He hasn't progressed as a defender at all. He goes stretches of games where you don't even realize he is playing.

Easiest way to explain Wiggins, is that he has literally no fire in him. He is a coaster. We all know them. We have friends who are coasters. We just don't have friends that are oozing talent and you KNOW they could be amazing at something if they had any fire in them. That is Andrew Wiggins.

My biggest worry since around mid-way through his 2nd season, was that we would stupidly give him a max because 20 points per game. And we did. For him to be a below average starting NBA wing.

Reading above, I actually wasn't harsh. I have been bashing on Wiggins for 2 years now. He is a total waste of talent. Perhaps he will get slightly better as his body matures and he gets naturally stronger, but the dude doesn't care to push himself. With Butler on the floor, we basically have a $25 million dollar spot up shooter who doesn't hit at a high rate, won't rebound, can't pass, and doesn't defend. We traded the wrong guy to Chicago, and I say that knowing Lavine will never ben an acceptable NBA defender.

Rant over. **** Wiggins.

Hawkeye15
03-09-2018, 10:33 AM
6-21 from the field. Amazing how people expected him to be the next Jimmy Butler but this guy is far from it. Looks like he just wants to color anime figures when he's on his free time.

I would kill for the next Demar DeRozan out of this guy. Alas, no chance..

Hawkeye15
03-09-2018, 10:42 AM
just an exciting tidbit here, but we will be paying our amazing Teague/Wiggins duo $44 million next season to be a below average starting tandem. Yay!

FlashBolt
03-09-2018, 10:58 AM
This will likely come off as overly harsh, but I don't care.

Wiggins, is a complete waste of talent. Some like to point to his age, and claim he has so much room to develop. The dude has started over 300 NBA games, had a star usage rate since day 1, and hasn't developed at all. In fact, he has regressed. At least his first 2 years, he was a foul drawing machine that made up for his terrible shot selection and lack of 3 point shot with tons of free throws. At some point last year, he decided he doesn't care to go find contact anymore, so that one positive with his scoring disappeared. He is allergic to anything that will get him dirty. He refuses to rebound, or create for anyone else. He hasn't progressed as a defender at all. He goes stretches of games where you don't even realize he is playing.

Easiest way to explain Wiggins, is that he has literally no fire in him. He is a coaster. We all know them. We have friends who are coasters. We just don't have friends that are oozing talent and you KNOW they could be amazing at something if they had any fire in them. That is Andrew Wiggins.

My biggest worry since around mid-way through his 2nd season, was that we would stupidly give him a max because 20 points per game. And we did. For him to be a below average starting NBA wing.

Reading above, I actually wasn't harsh. I have been bashing on Wiggins for 2 years now. He is a total waste of talent. Perhaps he will get slightly better as his body matures and he gets naturally stronger, but the dude doesn't care to push himself. With Butler on the floor, we basically have a $25 million dollar spot up shooter who doesn't hit at a high rate, won't rebound, can't pass, and doesn't defend. We traded the wrong guy to Chicago, and I say that knowing Lavine will never ben an acceptable NBA defender.

Rant over. **** Wiggins.

I said the same thing.. Zach Lavine is the better fit/player than Wiggins IMO. When Lavine plays, the dude actually has emotion in his game. Wiggins is like a doofus out there. Lavine can shoot and do everything Wiggins do minus the post game.. Wiggins is trash. I can't believe Minny paid him. You guys had Towns and could've built a solid foundation there but Teague+Wiggins? Oh my God..

europagnpilgrim
03-09-2018, 10:59 AM
Is he the most underperforming player in the NBA?

I'm interested to hear from fans who watch him more.

I don't know if he can be considered a bust because he is at least an average NBA starting SF who doesn't miss games.

i thought he was a sure thing elite defensive player but he is pretty garbage when i watch. his stats show a #3 option player on a good, but not great team, and for how early we started hearing about him isn't this the time he's supposed to be taking over the NBA?

he was better last couple years, is he playing through an injury?

Did he get the pay day and settle?

Jimmy Butler alpha'd him but i thought when he went down maybe he showed he can lead a team, despite coming off a great game in a L to another WC team in the playoff hunt, it seems he is a complementary player.

Is there something I'm missing. No doubt he has elite athleticism and profile of a superstar but he was dogged with lack of killer instinct that maybe he can't run from?

wouldn't say the most underperforming even due to his contract since they have Butler/Towns who are legit bona fide #1 options if not on the same team so that knocks Wiggins down to the 3rd option and quasi 4th since Teague handles the ball for most part running the offense and they even throw the ball down low from the games I have watched to Gibson for a decent amount of touches

but Wiggins should be way way way better on defense, he should almost be Leonard/Pippen like since he doesn't have the burden of needing to attempt 30 shots for the team to be successful, his overall floor game should be TMAC like, since I saw on here a while back when some were comparing him to TMAC, which is utter disrespect to a legend like TMAC

he is top 10 I would imagine in underperforming due to max style deal he received but C Parsons and some others are over him, Conley as well seeing the deal he got and he cant even be available which makes it worse because at least Wiggins is available to be on the court needed, while Parsons and Conley cant stay healthy and they weren't even worth the deals they got as did Wiggins, even Adams in OKC is overpaid but at least he will get boards and bang down low/set screens but that isn't 100+ million type of production

Wiggins to me was a iffy 1st overall selection, he didn't wow me enough or hardly at all watching him in college, his athletic ability was noticeable but I look at both skill/athletic with the other attributes , he is what I thought he would be coming out of college so its not a shock to me that he is what he is after playing 3yrs in the league, could he make a all star team down the line? possibly but I doubt it

by year 3 if he hasn't make his name on notice with the league then at best he will be labeled a good or serviceable player, similar to the M Gasols and Conleys and Hardaway Jr. of the league

those are the type of players who get overrated mostly by the non playing masses/fake experts of the world

Hawkeye15
03-09-2018, 11:11 AM
I said the same thing.. Zach Lavine is the better fit/player than Wiggins IMO. When Lavine plays, the dude actually has emotion in his game. Wiggins is like a doofus out there. Lavine can shoot and do everything Wiggins do minus the post game.. Wiggins is trash. I can't believe Minny paid him. You guys had Towns and could've built a solid foundation there but Teague+Wiggins? Oh my God..

just the modern NBA alone requires a guard to be able to consistently hit the 3. Wiggins takes more 19 footers than anyone I have seen in the least 5 years (since Kobe retired). I just don't get it. He shakes and bakes and just jacks a fall away 20 footer. Like, there isn't a more stupid ****ing shot possible to take in today's NBA, yet we continue to give him a green light.

Thib's is a huge problem too. Clearly his ice defense is not made for the modern spread out NBA. I hated watching early 90's bruiser ball, that is not basketball. And that is how we play. Never been this disinterested in a Wolves team in my life. Our offensive numbers are a fluke as well, and come at the expense of defense. We don't turn it over, which is great. But we also are fortunate that everyone but Wiggins pretty much rarely misses a FT, and we crash the offensive boards at the expense of transition defense, which is just killing us.

FlakeyFool
03-09-2018, 11:31 AM
Best case: DeRozan
Worst case: Wiggins

Rain City
03-09-2018, 12:31 PM
don't really have to look further than the FT column. lowest attempts and % in his career by a wide margin. unacceptable for a starting wing.

congrats to wiggins for being able to make it and start in the NBA coasting on talent. very few can do that. when i first heard about him i thought not only did he have exceptional physical gifts and bloodlines, but honed skills from a strong work ethic.

in a sense we could see it his 1 year in college he under-achieved and lack of dog in him but chalked it up to his game being made for NBA style.

Sly Guy
03-10-2018, 10:51 AM
1) Can't play defense. Too small to guard SF's and too slow or lazy to guard guards.
2) All he does is score.. which is not a problem when you look at guys like Klay doing that but..
3) He can't shoot the ball. Klay spaces the floor. Wiggins is like DeRozan with less efficiency, skill, and all-around game. The guy got paid a huge contract for being a midrange scorer with athleticism. It was a terrible contract extension. Remember when people said Cavs lost out on Wiggins when they got Love? Well, good thing. He is trash.
4) Has a low basketball IQ and hunger. I don't know if it has something to do with his Canadian roots but he doesn't have that drive that a black player from a rougher upbringing would have. He's a suburban black boy.. nothing wrong with that but we are talking about two different personalities. Not trying to generalize but sorta.

a 'soft european' lol.

Nah man I agree, he was soft when I played him when he was like 12. The kid didn't fight back the way his dad did whenever I played them both over a weekend tournament. I know he was 12, but man, I remember being 12, and I never cared who I played against. If someone embarrassed me, I'd smile, take the ball and come at them harder. Andrew wasn't like that. It was more like 'oh I got my shock blocked, I guess I should pass now' instead of prodding to find a different way. Really, I think it has always been head and shoulders athletically gifted above his peers and he's never had to dig in and work at it. Andrew's mum was an olympic hurdler and mitch wiggins played for the 94' championship rockets. Kid had the genes, dad had the means of giving him the athletic opportunity with coaching, scouting, competition. Just might be one of those cases where the parents decided his career instead of him. You'd think that wouldn't matter, but I guess at the top level, it's more than athletic ability and talent. You gotta want it too, and I don't think he wants it bad enough.

Hawkeye15
03-10-2018, 11:07 AM
a 'soft european' lol.

Nah man I agree, he was soft when I played him when he was like 12. The kid didn't fight back the way his dad did whenever I played them both over a weekend tournament. I know he was 12, but man, I remember being 12, and I never cared who I played against. If someone embarrassed me, I'd smile, take the ball and come at them harder. Andrew wasn't like that. It was more like 'oh I got my shock blocked, I guess I should pass now' instead of prodding to find a different way. Really, I think it has always been head and shoulders athletically gifted above his peers and he's never had to dig in and work at it. Andrew's mum was an olympic hurdler and mitch wiggins played for the 94' championship rockets. Kid had the genes, dad had the means of giving him the athletic opportunity with coaching, scouting, competition. Just might be one of those cases where the parents decided his career instead of him. You'd think that wouldn't matter, but I guess at the top level, it's more than athletic ability and talent. You gotta want it too, and I don't think he wants it bad enough.

I saw a tweet that accurately sums up your post, something that read similar to:


Basketball seems to have gotten in the way of Andrew Wiggins having an amazing career"

Like I said, the dude is a coaster. He is the pure example of a player who was just head and shoulders above everyone else talent and athletic wise growing up, so he never had to work hard. But like you said, he just doesn't have that "**** you" bone in him. Kobe, Watt, Jordan, Gretzky, all have a fire inside of them that rages all the time. Wiggins has a tiny little pilot light that never does anything but keep the machine running. That is the easiest way to explain it. And I bet he thinks he works hard, and plays hard, and I have to keep reading Wolves coaches praise him. While I get that coaches shouldn't torch a guy to the media, you have to be joking me if a coaching staff isn't driven mad by Wiggins. He could dominate, but he would rather play paddycake in the corner and not get dirty. It would drive me NUTS if I was Jimmy Butler, who clawed and scratched his way to his position.

I despise Wiggins as a player. He boils my blood, such a waste of talent, and all my fears about him have been realized. He will make $25 million a year starting next year to be a below average starting NBA player. Ugh

Heediot
03-10-2018, 12:07 PM
Jamal Murray or Wiggins?

JAZZNC
03-10-2018, 12:42 PM
I saw a tweet that accurately sums up your post, something that read similar to:


Basketball seems to have gotten in the way of Andrew Wiggins having an amazing career"

Like I said, the dude is a coaster. He is the pure example of a player who was just head and shoulders above everyone else talent and athletic wise growing up, so he never had to work hard. But like you said, he just doesn't have that "**** you" bone in him. Kobe, Watt, Jordan, Gretzky, all have a fire inside of them that rages all the time. Wiggins has a tiny little pilot light that never does anything but keep the machine running. That is the easiest way to explain it. And I bet he thinks he works hard, and plays hard, and I have to keep reading Wolves coaches praise him. While I get that coaches shouldn't torch a guy to the media, you have to be joking me if a coaching staff isn't driven mad by Wiggins. He could dominate, but he would rather play paddycake in the corner and not get dirty. It would drive me NUTS if I was Jimmy Butler, who clawed and scratched his way to his position.

I despise Wiggins as a player. He boils my blood, such a waste of talent, and all my fears about him have been realized. He will make $25 million a year starting next year to be a below average starting NBA player. Ugh

I have always felt the exact same way about Favors. I told people from day 1 that he was average at best and was told I was a hater and that he was gonna be the next great big....I referred to the fact that he couldn't dominate in college even with his phenomenal physical gifts and that he couldn't beat out an undersized 2nd round pick for the starting job...we had to give it to him and wonder why he's never had a bit of fire to his game. That's why Millsap always was the better player, he wanted it and if Favors had that fire he'd be a helluva player. But there are guys like that all over the league that are just content with getting by. It's such a shame to see dudes like that never have to EARN anything while wasting their incredible physical talent and then people wonder why they coast.

smith&wesson
03-12-2018, 01:56 AM
1) Can't play defense. Too small to guard SF's and too slow or lazy to guard guards.
2) All he does is score.. which is not a problem when you look at guys like Klay doing that but..
3) He can't shoot the ball. Klay spaces the floor. Wiggins is like DeRozan with less efficiency, skill, and all-around game. The guy got paid a huge contract for being a midrange scorer with athleticism. It was a terrible contract extension. Remember when people said Cavs lost out on Wiggins when they got Love? Well, good thing. He is trash.
4) Has a low basketball IQ and hunger. I don't know if it has something to do with his Canadian roots but he doesn't have that drive that a black player from a rougher upbringing would have. He's a suburban black boy.. nothing wrong with that but we are talking about two different personalities. Not trying to generalize but sorta.

Wtf are you talking about lmfao ď a black player with a rougher up bringingĒ ????

So I guess Steve Nash was a Canadian white kid with a super rough up bringing and thatís why he was any good ? Seriously wtf are you talking about

Chronz
03-12-2018, 08:24 AM
Wtf are you talking about lmfao ď a black player with a rougher up bringingĒ ????

So I guess Steve Nash was a Canadian white kid with a super rough up bringing and thatís why he was any good ? Seriously wtf are you talking about
Nash used to freestyle out on the streets while honing his game just to get to college. Wiggins grew up knowing his life was secure

JAZZNC
03-12-2018, 08:28 AM
Nash used to freestyle out on the streets while honing his game just to get to college. Wiggins grew up knowing his life was secure

That's the problem these days. Players from yester year weren't propped up from the time they were in middle school.

Hawkeye15
03-12-2018, 09:50 AM
Nash used to freestyle out on the streets while honing his game just to get to college. Wiggins grew up knowing his life was secure

yeah it's hard to have that hunger when you are given everything. But it's not like Curry was raised having to sling hooch to make it...

Wiggins is just a coaster. No other way to explain it.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-12-2018, 10:02 AM
Nash used to freestyle out on the streets while honing his game just to get to college. Wiggins grew up knowing his life was secure

He's a shy, quiet kid by nature. If he grew up around gangbangers, you think he's suddenly going to be hungry?

Chronz
03-12-2018, 02:28 PM
He's a shy, quiet kid by nature. If he grew up around gangbangers, you think he's suddenly going to be hungry?
Hangry

GiantsSwaGG
03-12-2018, 02:59 PM
Heís Michael Beasley 2.0 but Beasley is the better offensive player

Heediot
03-12-2018, 02:59 PM
yeah it's hard to have that hunger when you are given everything. But it's not like Curry was raised having to sling hooch to make it...

Wiggins is just a coaster. No other way to explain it.

Curry had the killer instinct in College. He was a beast when Tourney time came around.

Curry also had the chip on his shoulder being passed up by the big time programs and having to play in a **** conference. He was also harped on about his athleticism and ability to be a PG at the nba level. He had his motivations. I do agree Curry had to earn things. I think Wiggins does put in the off-season work, I just think he needs to be more gritty and dirty on the court. Curry puts his heart and soul into the game, Wiggins seems to be the opposite.

FlashBolt
03-12-2018, 03:16 PM
He's a shy, quiet kid by nature. If he grew up around gangbangers, you think he's suddenly going to be hungry?

You don't have to live the hard knock lifestyle but I'm not sure Wiggins grew up in a society where other than his talent, he really had to work for it. There's no way this kid is that young and looks like he has zero hunger. Does anyone even get the feeling he wants to win at the highest level? It's like he's just there. Has the guy ever talked about accomplishing things in the NBA?

phillipmike
03-15-2018, 10:42 AM
Listening to TSN Radio in Toronto a few days ago they said that the long 2 is one of the least valuable and ineffective shots in basketball and they say Wiggins has taken almost as much as the entire Houston Rockets team.

His contract per value is one of the worse in the league but he is still only 22. He needs better shot selection and to hone/develop his skills... hopefully he just needs time but this is quite shocking how bad he is and even more shocking the contract Minny gave him.

Rivera
03-15-2018, 11:59 AM
I think this article does great with the Wiggins conindrum

The good and the Bad

and the stats say hes been better since the injury


(article dated 3.12)

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/3/12/17108610/minnesota-timberwolves-karl-anthony-town-andrew-wiggins

aman_13
03-15-2018, 02:07 PM
I still believe he will be really good.

FlashBolt
03-15-2018, 02:09 PM
I'm not sure why people bring up Andrew's young age when he's getting paid the max contract. Dude should be expected to perform like a max player if he gets paid max dollars. He's four years into the league. Can anyone tell us what exactly he has improved on? It's a massive waste of talent. His defense still sucks. How? He was supposed to be a good defender right out of college. And there are problems with him being third option on a championship contender? Man, this guy is full of himself. He shoots midrange jumpers like it's the 90's but plays no defense. How do you expect to be great playing like that in today's league?

Hawkeye15
03-15-2018, 03:24 PM
[QUOTE=FlashBolt;32229219]I'm not sure why people bring up Andrew's young age QUOTE]

I have no idea either. Dude has started 300 NBA games, with massive usage/role. His excuses are over. At this point, it's clear he will never reach even an inkling of his physical potential. Unfortunately, he is paid by a ridiculously stupid owner who doesn't understand how to run an NBA team.

IndyRealist
03-15-2018, 03:37 PM
Listening to TSN Radio in Toronto a few days ago they said that the long 2 is one of the least valuable and ineffective shots in basketball and they say Wiggins has taken almost as much as the entire Houston Rockets team.

His contract per value is one of the worse in the league but he is still only 22. He needs better shot selection and to hone/develop his skills... hopefully he just needs time but this is quite shocking how bad he is and even more shocking the contract Minny gave him.
Tangent:
The long 2 gets misunderstood. There are times to take a long 2, and times where having a DeRozan or Evan Turner who excels at them is useful. The issue is when you pass up looking for better shots specifically to take a long 2. In general you should be forced into a long 2 by the clock, or less often by the defense cutting everything else off and giving you the 18ft shot. You should not be taking contested, fadeaway 20fters 10 seconds into the clock.

mike_noodles
03-15-2018, 03:57 PM
I still believe he will be really good.

Iím with you. The shine has come off for sure. And I know what the advanced stats say. But averaging 23 points in the nba is not an easy thing to do and heís done it. I feel like he just needs the right coach to unlock that potential. Heís got all the tools, just needs the right guidance.

And to the other conversation about growing up rough, KD even said it, you donít have to have a rough upbringing to be good at basketball.

FlakeyFool
03-15-2018, 04:09 PM
He really should be a great defender

Heediot
03-15-2018, 04:24 PM
Iím with you. The shine has come off for sure. And I know what the advanced stats say. But averaging 23 points in the nba is not an easy thing to do and heís done it. I feel like he just needs the right coach to unlock that potential. Heís got all the tools, just needs the right guidance.

And to the other conversation about growing up rough, KD even said it, you donít have to have a rough upbringing to be good at basketball.

True you don't need a rough upbringing, but you need mental toughness if you want to be among the elite. The accusation of him just settling seems to be warranted so far. I think he mentally checks out when he has to grittier and out hustle others.

Maybe he's a late bloomer, I'm rooting for him but not getting my hopes up.

aman_13
03-15-2018, 05:20 PM
null

Exactly my thoughts and it just sounds like some here are describing DeMar. DeMar was criticised earlier in his career to be passive, a poor playmaker and someone who takes inefficient shots. Now look at him, he's completely evolved. He's become a playmaker, the long 2 has been filtered out and he isn't afraid to completely take over and will his away into winning a game when the team needs him the most. Having some of the best footwork in the game helps as well.

Wiggins has more raw talent than DeMar. He's more athletic and has a quicker first step. He just needs the right guidance. When I watch him play, he scores so effortlessly, it's just that he doesn't think the game the way an elite guard does.

It looks like he's still trying to find the balance between trying to be a scorer and playing within a system. For some players, it takes more time to click. I believe he will figure it out.

Heediot
03-15-2018, 05:30 PM
Exactly my thoughts and it just sounds like some here are describing DeMar. DeMar was criticised earlier in his career to be passive, a poor playmaker and someone who takes inefficient shots. Now look at him, he's completely evolved. He's become a playmaker, the long 2 has been filtered out and he isn't afraid to completely take over and will his away into winning a game when the team needs him the most. Having some of the best footwork in the game helps as well.

Wiggins has more raw talent than DeMar. He's more athletic and has a quicker first step. He just needs the right guidance. When I watch him play, he scores so effortlessly, it's just that he doesn't think the game the way an elite guard does.

It looks like he's still trying to find the balance between trying to be a scorer and playing within a system. For some players, it takes more time to click. I believe he will figure it out.

The thing I respect about DD is he wants it bad. He's willing to put his heart and soul into the game. I don't get that vibe from Wiggins. DD puts in the work, one of the hardest workers in the league. I'm not saying Wiggins doesn't put in work off the court, but I Don't feel he is as hungry as DD.

aman_13
03-15-2018, 05:37 PM
The thing I respect about DD is he wants it bad. He's willing to put his heart and soul into the game. I don't get that vibe from Wiggins. DD puts in the work, one of the hardest workers in the league. I'm not saying Wiggins doesn't put in work off the court, but I Don't feel he is as hungry as DD.

DeMar was considered passive as well though. Reluctant to take over at times. I just think it's still too early to write him off.

IndyRealist
03-15-2018, 07:32 PM
Iím with you. The shine has come off for sure. And I know what the advanced stats say. But averaging 23 points in the nba is not an easy thing to do and heís done it. I feel like he just needs the right coach to unlock that potential. Heís got all the tools, just needs the right guidance.

And to the other conversation about growing up rough, KD even said it, you donít have to have a rough upbringing to be good at basketball.
That's not actually true if you're a #1 pick. Ignoring rookies (Simmons and Fultz) 7 of the last 8 #1 picks have averaged 23ppg. The team is invested in giving you the green light to take whatever shots you want. You tend to be on a bad team with few other scoring options, and an organization looking to capitalize on the new face of their franchise.

ellington19
03-15-2018, 09:28 PM
As a Wolves fan, one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched.

It's surprising to me that he's come out with these comments, because he flat out does not give a **** when he's on the court, so I'm not sure why he'd give a **** off of it.

He's a good scorer (far from great), who could be a very good scorer if he learnt to play to his strengths (attacking the ring) instead of jacking long/contested twos and threes. The 'elite' tag is out the door though, he's never going to be 'elite' at anything at an NBA-level.

If he thinks he deserves to be the 'alpha' (or one of them) ahead of Butler or Towns, he's also now officially the dumbest and/or most naive player in the league.

ChongInc.
03-15-2018, 10:00 PM
I've been discussing it in the raptors forum.

How does an ibaka+Powell for Wiggins trade sound from an outside perspective?

smith&wesson
03-16-2018, 01:00 AM
Nash used to freestyle out on the streets while honing his game just to get to college. Wiggins grew up knowing his life was secure

Nash playing street ball in Vancouver isnt rough dude .. maybe you never been to B.C

Wiggins is from Vaughan which boarders one of the roughest neighborhoods in Toronto (rexdale)

But again I donít know what any of that has to do with a non contact sport weíre not talking about rugby here

smith&wesson
03-16-2018, 01:04 AM
DeMar was considered passive as well though. Reluctant to take over at times. I just think it's still too early to write him off.

Demar has an incredible work ethic though. He improved on something every season where as Wiggins has been the same player since he was drafted. I think thatís the main difference..

smith&wesson
03-16-2018, 01:06 AM
I've been discussing it in the raptors forum.

How does an ibaka+Powell for Wiggins trade sound from an outside perspective?

I wouldnít mind that trade.. but mostly because I value Siakam starting and an ibaka move would open things up for him.

Also Wiggins can learn from Derozan. The talent is there. But then again we thought he could learn from Butler too and that hasnít happened.

FlashBolt
03-16-2018, 07:42 AM
Iím with you. The shine has come off for sure. And I know what the advanced stats say. But averaging 23 points in the nba is not an easy thing to do and heís done it. I feel like he just needs the right coach to unlock that potential. Heís got all the tools, just needs the right guidance.

And to the other conversation about growing up rough, KD even said it, you donít have to have a rough upbringing to be good at basketball.

Right. But when you look at the details of it, it's terrible.

Wiggins was 7th in the league in FGA last year. That's the only reason he scored 23. When you're jacking up 19 shots, you damn well better get some numbers up. The unfortunate part is when you realize everyone else even close to 19 shots were scoring much more on better efficiency (TS%). Wiggins is just a volume scorer who contributes nothing off-ball, defensively, playmaking, and as a leader. He was supposed to be the best #1 pick in recent memory but has not developed a single part of his game. We are talking about a player who has four years in the NBA and is below average in three point shooting in a generation of basketball players who are lethal at shooting. His best attribute is his athleticism but what good is it when it doesn't translate to anything positive on the court?

Hawkeye15
03-16-2018, 08:48 AM
Tangent:
The long 2 gets misunderstood. There are times to take a long 2, and times where having a DeRozan or Evan Turner who excels at them is useful. The issue is when you pass up looking for better shots specifically to take a long 2. In general you should be forced into a long 2 by the clock, or less often by the defense cutting everything else off and giving you the 18ft shot. You should not be taking contested, fadeaway 20fters 10 seconds into the clock.

Wiggins does nightly.

Hawkeye15
03-16-2018, 08:51 AM
Exactly my thoughts and it just sounds like some here are describing DeMar. DeMar was criticised earlier in his career to be passive, a poor playmaker and someone who takes inefficient shots. Now look at him, he's completely evolved. He's become a playmaker, the long 2 has been filtered out and he isn't afraid to completely take over and will his away into winning a game when the team needs him the most. Having some of the best footwork in the game helps as well.

Wiggins has more raw talent than DeMar. He's more athletic and has a quicker first step. He just needs the right guidance. When I watch him play, he scores so effortlessly, it's just that he doesn't think the game the way an elite guard does.

It looks like he's still trying to find the balance between trying to be a scorer and playing within a system. For some players, it takes more time to click. I believe he will figure it out.

Wiggins won't figure it out. He has no fire in him at all. He is a pure coaster, and will coast his way to $250 million, a bunch of points, and a completely underwhelming career.

The dude doesn't give a ****. He is in year 4, 300 games, started them all, had #1 usage for 3 years, and hasn't improved. Actually he has gotten worse.

IndyRealist
03-16-2018, 09:45 AM
Wiggins does nightly.
As does Paul George.

Hawkeye15
03-16-2018, 10:15 AM
As does Paul George.

During year 2, I actually saw Wiggins progressing into PG. But in year 3, he all of a sudden stopped attacking and drawing fouls, his 3 ball never got any better, and he just didn't take any step defensively.

I think PG is pretty overrated (most think he is a star player, I don't). But I would love it if Wiggins turned into him.

At this point, I don't know what I think Wiggins will become, other than a total waste of talent.

IKnowHoops
03-16-2018, 12:58 PM
I still believe he will be really good.

Me too. Heís only 23 and Iíve seen the ability. Itís just about mental maturity. He is on the slow side but heís on the brink of explosion.

IKnowHoops
03-16-2018, 01:02 PM
Exactly my thoughts and it just sounds like some here are describing DeMar. DeMar was criticised earlier in his career to be passive, a poor playmaker and someone who takes inefficient shots. Now look at him, he's completely evolved. He's become a playmaker, the long 2 has been filtered out and he isn't afraid to completely take over and will his away into winning a game when the team needs him the most. Having some of the best footwork in the game helps as well.

Wiggins has more raw talent than DeMar. He's more athletic and has a quicker first step. He just needs the right guidance. When I watch him play, he scores so effortlessly, it's just that he doesn't think the game the way an elite guard does.

It looks like he's still trying to find the balance between trying to be a scorer and playing within a system. For some players, it takes more time to click. I believe he will figure it out.

Exactly. I think itís harder for some people in some fan bases to look that far ahead based on a history or loosing.

IKnowHoops
03-16-2018, 01:04 PM
DeMar was considered passive as well though. Reluctant to take over at times. I just think it's still too early to write him off.

Agreed, development can happen at diff times for diff people.

Rain City
03-16-2018, 01:42 PM
Agreed, development can happen at diff times for diff people.

it appears wiggins stopped developing at 16.

Rain City
03-16-2018, 01:55 PM
the guy is an incredible leaper, quickness, agility, ideal size and length, he looks like he has solid fundamentals, health, Minny has put great pieces around him and given him high usage. what makes NBA so fun is it is full of young talented athletes who want to be great, he is as talented as any of them and seems allergic to greatness.

Jamiecballer
03-16-2018, 02:02 PM
Anyone who traded assets and takes on Wiggins deal will be out of a job in short order. He's marginally better than a number one pick that came through these parts in 2006

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Rain City
03-16-2018, 02:05 PM
what boggles me is minny trades one of the franchises best ever player and wiggins was such a great prospect that it seemed like a gift, or robbery. now they've gotten a guy you can get with the 14th pick. i would feel bad for them but they landed KAT who looks like he may be good enough in the future to be the best player on a championship team and its not out of the question wiggins can be the 3rd best.

Rain City
03-16-2018, 02:11 PM
what frustrates me the most, and ill be done for awhile on the topic, is his defense. he came into the league not only with the intangibles and profile as a 1st team defender but he clearly had played against enough top competition to be an accomplished defender. i even remember him year 1 or 2 seeing him lock up harden with no help. now he is average at best. doesn't make plays, just totally coasts. and w/ thibs as the HC i don't get it.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2018, 05:34 AM
it appears wiggins stopped developing at 16.

Appearances can be deceiving

Twolves88
03-17-2018, 06:15 AM
Appearances can be deceiving

Or accurate in the sense that his demeanor says he doesn't care about being great and wants to get his paycheck and be done.

IndyRealist
03-17-2018, 08:37 AM
Appearances can be deceiving

You're not even trying anymore.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2018, 10:10 AM
what boggles me is minny trades one of the franchises best ever player and wiggins was such a great prospect that it seemed like a gift, or robbery. now they've gotten a guy you can get with the 14th pick. i would feel bad for them but they landed KAT who looks like he may be good enough in the future to be the best player on a championship team and its not out of the question wiggins can be the 3rd best.

the only benefit of the Love trade was we got so bad we landed Towns. Cleveland won that trade in a landslide player to player. Wiggins now makes max money to suck. So we basically sent out a perennial all star and took back a waste of talent for similar money.

Again, trade was great, we got Towns out of it, and Lavine, who was used to get Butler. But in a capsule, the Love/Wiggins swap did not favor us if you look at the trade only. What happened because of it was positive, sure.

Heediot
03-17-2018, 10:24 AM
In the words of Kris Kross

Andrew = "'Cause inside-out is wiggity, wiggity, wiggity wack""

I think the Raptors might be a good place for him to start over. Aman said DD had somewhat similar issues earlier in his career. Lowry has also had issues with consistency and focus early in his career (although he was still solid/good for a later 1st round guy). I think those two may be the type of leaders and guides he needs to take it to the next level and become consistent allstars as they have become.

ChongInc's proposal wolves fans? Ibaka and Powell for Wiggins and Salary Filler? Maybe Raps throw in a pick/prospect to sweeten it.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2018, 12:26 PM
You're not even trying anymore.

I never started trying in this thread. Please point out a post where I tried. This I a a wait and see situation in which both sides are right and only time will tell. Heís youngí but to the blind eye, has not improved anywhere. We will see if he has an Olideepo like boom.

IndyRealist
03-17-2018, 01:00 PM
I never started trying in this thread. Please point out a post where I tried. This I a a wait and see situation in which both sides are right and only time will tell. Heís youngí but to the blind eye, has not improved anywhere. We will see if he has an Olideepo like boom.

We can hope, but Olapdio changed his diet and workout regimen. He's like 10lb lighter, and that accounts for a lot of his improvement. Wiggins has no impetus to change.

mike_noodles
03-17-2018, 01:03 PM
Right. But when you look at the details of it, it's terrible.

Wiggins was 7th in the league in FGA last year. That's the only reason he scored 23. When you're jacking up 19 shots, you damn well better get some numbers up. The unfortunate part is when you realize everyone else even close to 19 shots were scoring much more on better efficiency (TS%). Wiggins is just a volume scorer who contributes nothing off-ball, defensively, playmaking, and as a leader. He was supposed to be the best #1 pick in recent memory but has not developed a single part of his game. We are talking about a player who has four years in the NBA and is below average in three point shooting in a generation of basketball players who are lethal at shooting. His best attribute is his athleticism but what good is it when it doesn't translate to anything positive on the court?

I don't disagree. Just pointing out that the guy oozes natural talent and athleticism, which I think any NBA fan can agree to. He just hasn't harnessed those gifts yet and possibly never will, but, I don't think he's a write off at 22 years old. As a hometown fan, I would take a flier on him. Match salaries and throw in a 2nd rounder and see what happens. Basketball and football are funny sports. Right coach, right system can make a night and day difference with a player. A chance I would be willing to take.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2018, 03:01 PM
Iím really of the belief that Wiggins is a mental breakthrough away from being that guy. They happen at any age at any time like the sum of the equation of your life events have finally given you a new way of looking at things. Inevitably he will have that breakthrough that kids do. Heís a lil late, but the flashes and games and stretches of games have been there.

Shcamz
03-17-2018, 11:42 PM
Good player, but probably, at best, the 3rd best player on a championship team. Don't see Minny ever winning a chip tho with him.