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View Full Version : LBJ: Only player with 30,000 pts, 8,000 asts, & 8,000 rbs



JasonJohnHorn
02-28-2018, 10:14 AM
This is not only a testement to hs longevity, but his all-around game.

I realize those nice even numbers are a bit arbitrary, but still... this guy just keeps on adding to an already impressive legacy.


It's very likely he'll be over 40,000, 10,000, 10,000 and 2,000 stls and 1,000 blocks before his times up.

Who else in the league could pull off the 30/8/8?

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 10:37 AM
I mean, say what you will, but Jordan is the only player in history I would take ahead of LeBron James. And even then, it might depend on the team makeup. Unreal player, smashed the expectation and the hype, and it's been amazing to watch him play.

More-Than-Most
02-28-2018, 10:39 AM
I mean, say what you will, but Jordan is the only player in history I would take ahead of LeBron James. And even then, it might depend on the team makeup. Unreal player, smashed the expectation and the hype, and it's been amazing to watch him play.

Yup agreed with everything. I think Lebron and Jordan could play in any era but I think Jordan would have a ton of issues with this current era because of how basketball is played and how massive social media is... I would love for Jordan to have to go through all the hate like lebron has because of social media.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 11:04 AM
Yup agreed with everything. I think Lebron and Jordan could play in any era but I think Jordan would have a ton of issues with this current era because of how basketball is played and how massive social media is... I would love for Jordan to have to go through all the hate like lebron has because of social media.

meh, Jordan doesn't care what others think. His gambling habits would have needed to chill, but he would have made adjustments to the playing style/rules and dominated completely. Unlike Durant, he wouldn't have had his feeling hurt because of social media or the media in general. Jordan didn't give a ****, win at all costs.

mightybosstone
02-28-2018, 11:10 AM
He's got an outside chance to be the only member of the 40k, 10k, 10k club. By the time he retires, he could be first in all-time points, top 5 in all-time assists, top 10 in all-time steals and top 40 in all-time rebounds.

Another interesting point of note here, but I think there are two guys who could very well join him on this 30k, 8k, 8k list in 7-8 years: Russell Westbrook and James Harden. It would be tough for either guy to do it, but I think it's possible. Westbrook's biggest challenge is his injury history and if he can stay healthy long enough. Harden's biggest challenge is probably rebounds, as he's not halfway to 8,000 yet.

TrueFan420
02-28-2018, 12:21 PM
He's got an outside chance to be the only member of the 40k, 10k, 10k club. By the time he retires, he could be first in all-time points, top 5 in all-time assists, top 10 in all-time steals and top 40 in all-time rebounds.

Another interesting point of note here, but I think there are two guys who could very well join him on this 30k, 8k, 8k list in 7-8 years: Russell Westbrook and James Harden. It would be tough for either guy to do it, but I think it's possible. Westbrook's biggest challenge is his injury history and if he can stay healthy long enough. Harden's biggest challenge is probably rebounds, as he's not halfway to 8,000 yet.

KD might make it. He's 29 on 20k points, 5k rebounds and 3k assists. He can likely play into his mid 30's assuming no major injury. He will def hit 30k points and 8k rebounds the question will be assists. He's not half way there and while he should keep picking up assists with the warriors it might be to late to get to that 8k.

Either way it's an extremely impressive output from Bron. He's a hell of a player. And should cement himself as the clear cut #2 all time when it's all said and done.

KnicksorBust
02-28-2018, 12:24 PM
Peyton Manning of the NBA.

Ahriman
02-28-2018, 12:25 PM
He'll also be #1 on the Turnover list by the end of his career

Not to downplay his feat but with as his good stats increase with volume, so does the bad ones

WaDe03
02-28-2018, 12:27 PM
KD might make it. He's 29 on 20k points, 5k rebounds and 3k assists. He can likely play into his mid 30's assuming no major injury. He will def hit 30k points and 8k rebounds the question will be assists. He's not half way there and while he should keep picking up assists with the warriors it might be to late to get to that 8k.

Either way it's an extremely impressive output from Bron. He's a hell of a player. And should cement himself as the clear cut #2 all time when it's all said and done.

KD is definitely not making it. He'll get the points and rebounds more than likely.

TrueFan420
02-28-2018, 12:39 PM
KD is definitely not making it. He'll get the points and rebounds more than likely.

Which is why I said might. He's clearly going to get 2 of 3. The 3rd will be difficult but he's on a team where he might be able to accomplish this. It also depends on if he keeps playing into his late 30's if he makes it 40 he might catch it. And I think he can. Even as he ages and loses a step he's still a 7' who can snipe 3's, rebound, block shots and high IQ. If he takes the TD approach of hanging around as a role player he may just sneak in, though ultimately I think it's unlikely. Also if you read the message I quoted he was taking about Russ and Harden as people who might get there too. Russ has injury issues and Harden is the opposite of KD. Both will get points but where Harden will struggle with rebounds KD will struggle with assists. I'm just adding a potential name to the list of people.

mightybosstone
02-28-2018, 12:40 PM
KD might make it. He's 29 on 20k points, 5k rebounds and 3k assists. He can likely play into his mid 30's assuming no major injury. He will def hit 30k points and 8k rebounds the question will be assists. He's not half way there and while he should keep picking up assists with the warriors it might be to late to get to that 8k.
I thought about Durant, too, but then I looked up his assist numbers. He hasn't even topped 3,000 yet at 10 and a half seasons in the league. He's practically a lock to get points and rebounds, but assists would be nearly impossible. He'd have to average 6 assists a game over 80 games a season for 10 years to get 8,000 assists. And he's never averaged more than 5.5 a game in a season his entire career. Unless he starts getting 8-9 dimes a night, there's no chance.


Either way it's an extremely impressive output from Bron. He's a hell of a player. And should cement himself as the clear cut #2 all time when it's all said and done.
Yep. Without question, in my book.

TrueFan420
02-28-2018, 12:41 PM
He'll also be #1 on the Turnover list by the end of his career

Not to downplay his feat but with as his good stats increase with volume, so does the bad ones

No doubt. I wonder what his usage is compared to others in the top 10 and to the others potentially chasing his new 30,10 and 10 accomplishment.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 12:53 PM
meh, Jordan doesn't care what others think. His gambling habits would have needed to chill, but he would have made adjustments to the playing style/rules and dominated completely. Unlike Durant, he wouldn't have had his feeling hurt because of social media or the media in general. Jordan didn't give a ****, win at all costs.

Yes, on each account.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 12:55 PM
Peyton Manning of the NBA.

Except one performed worse in the playoffs, the other performed about the same.

TrueFan420
02-28-2018, 01:13 PM
I thought about Durant, too, but then I looked up his assist numbers. He hasn't even topped 3,000 yet at 10 and a half seasons in the league. He's practically a lock to get points and rebounds, but assists would be nearly impossible. He'd have to average 6 assists a game over 80 games a season for 10 years to get 8,000 assists. And he's never averaged more than 5.5 a game in a season his entire career. Unless he starts getting 8-9 dimes a night, there's no chance.


Yep. Without question, in my book.

No doubt it's unlikely and I'd upgrade that to very unlikely. However, with the warriors I think he will likely keep up the average of 5.5 with maybe a couple years of higher and a couple lower (tho 80 games would be a stretch). I also think barring a major injury he could play into his late 30 and maybe hit 40. His game and size will see he remain as a very useful player even when he loses a step or two. In end your likely right he will miss out on the assists. Russ won't have the longevity that KD has the potential to have and Harden to a lesser extent will have. Though of the 3 Russ is the closest with assists and rebounds. Harden might make it but he'd have to keep this pace combined with longevity. His game isn't exactly relying on athleticism so I think of the 3 he's likely to catch but we will see.

mightybosstone
02-28-2018, 01:15 PM
He'll also be #1 on the Turnover list by the end of his career

Not to downplay his feat but with as his good stats increase with volume, so does the bad ones

So while this is true, I think it's worth noting that Lebron doesn't have a single season among the top 100 in terms of most turnovers. The most turnovers he ever had in a year was 303, which ties him for 105th most all-time in one year. And that's despite having six seasons in which he posted a top 100 all-time USG% and the fact that he has the seventh highest USG% of all-time.

As much as he's handled the ball and as much as he's been the focal point of every offense he's ever played on, it's actually kind of impressive that he hasn't turned the ball over MORE in his career.

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-28-2018, 01:52 PM
I actually think Lebron would be a better fit in the 80's or 90's. Unlike other stars of today's game, he doesn't' rely on shooting 3's. I don't think his offensive game would be too negatively impacted with the rules of the 80's and 90's like some of the others stars of today.

Firefistus
02-28-2018, 01:59 PM
So while this is true, I think it's worth noting that Lebron doesn't have a single season among the top 100 in terms of most turnovers. The most turnovers he ever had in a year was 303, which ties him for 105th most all-time in one year. And that's despite having six seasons in which he posted a top 100 all-time USG% and the fact that he has the seventh highest USG% of all-time.

As much as he's handled the ball and as much as he's been the focal point of every offense he's ever played on, it's actually kind of impressive that he hasn't turned the ball over MORE in his career.

Especially when you look at the 2 that are closest to what he does, Westbrook and Harden. And what are their turnovers? People just gloss over the fact that Harden or Westbrook any given day can have 8+ turnovers. It's a good day when they only have 3-4 in the game.

WaDe03
02-28-2018, 02:18 PM
Which is why I said might. He's clearly going to get 2 of 3. The 3rd will be difficult but he's on a team where he might be able to accomplish this. It also depends on if he keeps playing into his late 30's if he makes it 40 he might catch it. And I think he can. Even as he ages and loses a step he's still a 7' who can snipe 3's, rebound, block shots and high IQ. If he takes the TD approach of hanging around as a role player he may just sneak in, though ultimately I think it's unlikely. Also if you read the message I quoted he was taking about Russ and Harden as people who might get there too. Russ has injury issues and Harden is the opposite of KD. Both will get points but where Harden will struggle with rebounds KD will struggle with assists. I'm just adding a potential name to the list of people.

He's for sure not getting the assists

FlakeyFool
03-01-2018, 12:14 PM
Peyton Manning of the NBA.

thats a terrible comparison

KnicksorBust
03-01-2018, 12:44 PM
thats a terrible comparison

Greatest regular season stat compiler of all-time? Where's the miss? :confused:

ewing
03-01-2018, 02:48 PM
His pace at this stage of his career is amazing. I thought he was slowing down a couple years ago and then he actually turned it up a notch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
03-01-2018, 03:42 PM
Greatest regular season stat compiler of all-time? Where's the miss? :confused:

while you kind of have a point, most associate Manning as a stats guy who failed in the playoffs. LeBron hasn't really failed much in the playoffs, if we realistically look at who he has lost to.

But I get the comparison. For sure.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2018, 03:42 PM
His pace at this stage of his career is amazing. I thought he was slowing down a couple years ago and then he actually turned it up a notch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah I think he might be a cyborg. Only explanation I can think of.

Vee-Rex
03-01-2018, 03:51 PM
His pace at this stage of his career is amazing. I thought he was slowing down a couple years ago and then he actually turned it up a notch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://i.imgflip.com/25k2iz.jpg

europagnpilgrim
03-01-2018, 03:57 PM
So while this is true, I think it's worth noting that Lebron doesn't have a single season among the top 100 in terms of most turnovers. The most turnovers he ever had in a year was 303, which ties him for 105th most all-time in one year. And that's despite having six seasons in which he posted a top 100 all-time USG% and the fact that he has the seventh highest USG% of all-time.

As much as he's handled the ball and as much as he's been the focal point of every offense he's ever played on, it's actually kind of impressive that he hasn't turned the ball over MORE in his career.


this is exactly basically what I have been saying when defending high usage/entire offense built around players like Bron/AI/early Jordan/Kareem pre Oscar/Magic and Wilt and even the high volume assists guys like Nash/Kidd and so on were high turnover players because they had the ball basically the entire game outside of playing defense

if a player is averaging 4 turnovers per game like a Lebron, that is only 1 turnover per quarter in 40+ minutes of action of having the ball in your hands a lot, which makes that really not a big deal but the avg brainwashed fanatic would sware its horrible and when I read that on here and abroad it tells me right there that person has never picked up or played a game of ball in their life

europagnpilgrim
03-01-2018, 04:00 PM
yeah I think he might be a cyborg. Only explanation I can think of.

that and also due to the non physicality and with SF playing the Center position for stretches makes it very easy for a freak of nature who stays in shape

D Howard is the same way, imagine if Shaq had his type of Wilt like workout style, Shaq would probably still be playing or in small demand by contenders who just wants a big body for a few minutes down low

funny you mention cyborg when someone posted a actual video proclaiming he literally was, jokingly I might add but he was sure having fun with it

IKnowHoops
03-01-2018, 05:34 PM
I actually think Lebron would be a better fit in the 80's or 90's. Unlike other stars of today's game, he doesn't' rely on shooting 3's. I don't think his offensive game would be too negatively impacted with the rules of the 80's and 90's like some of the others stars of today.

I agree, he would kill in the 80s because he would be able to clobber people back. People would fear Bron in the 80ís physically much more than Karl Malone.

IKnowHoops
03-01-2018, 05:35 PM
Greatest regular season stat compiler of all-time? Where's the miss? :confused:

Because you should of said Wayne Gretzky

IKnowHoops
03-01-2018, 05:38 PM
Goat

ewing
03-01-2018, 05:49 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/25k2iz.jpg

almost all the criticisms I've made of him on here are about him as a teammate or the fact that he is obnoxiously annoying. I'm one of the only posters in this board that gave them a chance when they beat GS. Just b/c he is a great basketball player doesn't mean I have to be a fan

KnicksorBust
03-01-2018, 05:55 PM
Greatest regular season stat compiler of all-time? Where's the miss? :confused:

while you kind of have a point, most associate Manning as a stats guy who failed in the playoffs. LeBron hasn't really failed much in the playoffs, if we realistically look at who he has lost to.

But I get the comparison. For sure.

Re-reading it I def feel the guy took offense. Soft.

IKnowHoops
03-01-2018, 06:00 PM
almost all the criticisms I've made of him on here are about him as a teammate or the fact that he is obnoxiously annoying. I'm one of the only posters in this board that gave them a chance when they beat GS. Just b/c he is a great basketball player doesn't mean I have to be a fan

Why complain about character? He does more for people than any NBA player and you ignore that. Basically your saying, ďIíve got no legit b-ball beef with Bron, Iím just a bratĒ.

KnicksorBust
03-01-2018, 06:01 PM
Greatest regular season stat compiler of all-time? Where's the miss? :confused:

Because you should of said Wayne Gretzky

Gretzky = Ruth

ewing
03-01-2018, 06:40 PM
Why complain about character? He does more for people than any NBA player and you ignore that. Basically your saying, ďIíve got no legit b-ball beef with Bron, Iím just a bratĒ.

Youre the one being a brat. Just bc you like him doesnít mean I have to. I find him extremely obnoxious and a ****** teammate. Thatís why I donít like him. Giving money to charity is good thing but it doesnít make him less annoying


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IKnowHoops
03-01-2018, 11:16 PM
Gretzky = Ruth

No, Manning = Ruth. Both greats. Great stats

Lebron = Wayne Arguable GOATs with by far the best cumulative stats...destroying and peeing on the rest of the competition to where it statistically seems impossible.

Ishkabibble
03-02-2018, 05:56 PM
Yup. LBJ is some kinda special. Like Gretzky and Tiger, came in with unrealistic hype and expectations and somehow...SOMEHOW...surpassed them. Best all-around player I've ever seen.

IKnowHoops
03-02-2018, 07:19 PM
Yup. LBJ is some kinda special. Like Gretzky and Tiger, came in with unrealistic hype and expectations and somehow...SOMEHOW...surpassed them. Best all-around player I've ever seen.

This guy gets it

SirSkyHook
03-02-2018, 07:50 PM
Be a amazing great player - Check
Be a amazing physical specimen in a no touch league ( not his fault) - Check
Play in the easiest conference possibly in NBA history - Check
Create two super teams in possibly the easiest conference in NBA history- Check
Stat Pad in loses - Check

There's a reasons he wore a shirt saying check my stats in 09. There's a reason he has a losing record in the finals. He's been about Lebron. Not team OR fans. He was lucky as hell Ray Allen was sitting in the corner for that three. That wasn't a Jordan to Kerr for three because M.J told Kerr to be ready, or a Kobe to Artest/Worldpeace for three because Kobe took the double and kicked to the open man. It was Bosh finding the open man off a rebound shot that saved his ***, and on the Kyrie shot he was in the corner with the pressure off. If Kyrie and Ray misses those shots Lebron is 1-7 in the finals. He's closer to Wilt than Jordan in the 5-10 range for the me. In the clutch moments you want the ball in the hands of your teams/ leagues perceived best player to score or make a play, so while I admire his skill and his ability in the game, I still reserve the right to question his greatness as any other fan does and in my heart carry disdain for his stats because of how he achieved them.

Another thing that hurts his greatness for me (the casual fan) is how he somehow has gotten everyone on board with him joining winning situations and giving him the credit while tearing down the other stars around him. When he lost in Miami its Wade and Bosh's fault, and when he loses in Cleveland its Loves fault and to a degree Kyrie's. Why is no one asking why didn't he make them better if he's the best in the world? Does anyone actually believe that Kyrie and Love wouldn't have made the playoffs if healthy in the east without Lebron? Another thing, If Lebron leaves Cleveland and creates or joins another super team will any eyes be open than? He's low-key cheating his way up the all-time mount of greatness and he has everyone stuck with Stockholm Syndrome. People love him and his game but the truth is he's distorted their view of what greatness is. So while many salute this achievement, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Guess I'm just a hater, because I hate I cant appreciate this more.

SirSkyHook
03-02-2018, 08:00 PM
I mean, say what you will, but Jordan is the only player in history I would take ahead of LeBron James. And even then, it might depend on the team makeup. Unreal player, smashed the expectation and the hype, and it's been amazing to watch him play.

And if you took Lebron you'll have to have a stacked team and a clutch player when it counts and even than you'll still lose more than 50% of the time when it counts. His stats will be nice tho.....

Edit: Forgot to mention he'll blame you also lol

Raps08-09 Champ
03-03-2018, 12:01 AM
1b.

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2018, 12:42 AM
Gretzky = Ruth


This is a basketball forum, but I'm goona bite on the Ruth comment.

Ruth is likely the greatest baseball icon of all time, and likely will remain that way for as long as the sport exists. In that sense he and Gretzky are on a par, because they hold that space.

I never really followed baseball. Never liked it. But I love a good sports story and sports lore. As an outsider, people always said to me: "It's Ruth. It's gotta be. He's the greatest. He was not only the greatest hitter of all time, but he was one of the best pitchers in the game. Doing both at that level? It can't be anybody but Ruth."

I bought that for a long time (again, as an outsider).

Then somebody responded to a comment like that with something so simple: "Ruth never played against the greatest players of the time because they weren't allowed in the league."

And I thought.. yeah... he's got a point.

People bemoan that Mikkan, or even Russell, don't deserve to be in the conversation as the greatest ever (Mikkan I can see; Russell not so much). But Ruth, as dominant as he was, never played against the greatest atheltes of the day because of the colour barrier.

But yeah... as an icon in the sport, there is no name more recognizable than Ruth. Whether he is the great baseball player or not I have no clue, but he is like George Washington, Elvis, Jordan, Bruce Lee and James Dean. He's an icon.

JasonJohnHorn
03-03-2018, 12:48 AM
There's a reason he has a losing record in the finals.

There is also a reason he's been to 7 straight finals and 8 overall.

You can knock his record in the finals, but 75% of the players in this league have never played in an NBA seasonw ere LBJ wasn't in the finals.

You may not realize this, but you aren't criticizing his lack of excellence; you are criticizing his lack of perfection. No player is perfect. None. LeBron has set a standard for excellence nobody in this generation has been able to attain. In the finals, he's lost to teams that were better in all but one series (they should have beat Dallas), and has won two series that his team should have lost (one against the Spurs and one against the Warriors).

Sure... Magic has five, Kobe has five, Jordan has six and LBJ only has three... but none of them post his all-around numbers for such a long duration, and none have been to 7-straight finals.

tredigs
03-03-2018, 12:51 AM
https://i.imgflip.com/25k2iz.jpg

To be fair he may have been alluding to the PED's LeBron (obviously) takes (stem cell injections anyone?). But he's FAR from alone, and he's still the best of his era. Do work 'Bron.

Vallejo Raiders
03-03-2018, 01:06 AM
how many 18 year olds were given the green light straight outta high school. let Kobe start his rookie year as the man. 100,000 points (obviously over exaggerating but you get my drift)

WaDe03
03-03-2018, 12:51 PM
how many 18 year olds were given the green light straight outta high school. let Kobe start his rookie year as the man. 100,000 points (obviously over exaggerating but you get my drift)

LeBron and Kobe isn't even a debate anymore, LeBron is far better.

SirSkyHook
03-03-2018, 02:06 PM
LeBron and Kobe isn't even a debate anymore, LeBron is far better.

Lebron is better at getting his at all cost. Kobe is better at winning when it counts. Not even debatable. It comes down to what you consider great. Rings, Level of competition, or........ stats. Lets not forget that first superteam Lebron created was created to take out Kobe's team. Maybe he himself had some reserve on his own greatness. Also as much as i like watching him play, to say he's even a better entertainer than Kobe is a stretch.

WaDe03
03-03-2018, 02:10 PM
Lebron is better at getting his at all cost. Kobe is better at winning when it counts. Not even debatable. It comes down to what you consider great. Rings, Level of competition, or........ stats. Lets not forget that first superteam Lebron created was created to take out Kobe's team. Maybe he himself had some reserve on his own greatness. Also as much as i like watching him play, to say he's even a better entertainer than Kobe is a stretch.

That first superteam literally had nothing to do with Kobe, it was built to beat those Celtics teams he couldn't get by. LeBron is better at winning than Kobe, he just didn't have all those years with prime Shaq.

SirSkyHook
03-03-2018, 02:45 PM
There is also a reason he's been to 7 straight finals and 8 overall.

You can knock his record in the finals, but 75% of the players in this league have never played in an NBA seasonw ere LBJ wasn't in the finals.

You may not realize this, but you aren't criticizing his lack of excellence; you are criticizing his lack of perfection. No player is perfect. None. LeBron has set a standard for excellence nobody in this generation has been able to attain. In the finals, he's lost to teams that were better in all but one series (they should have beat Dallas), and has won two series that his team should have lost (one against the Spurs and one against the Warriors).

Sure... Magic has five, Kobe has five, Jordan has six and LBJ only has three... but none of them post his all-around numbers for such a long duration, and none have been to 7-straight finals.

This is what im saying. You cant say he didnt win because it was hard and he still be considered top five in my opinon. Look at the competition of the other greats. Magic had to get down with some beasts. Bird and stacked Celtics, Mean *** Pistons ( try to flop or complain against the refs lol) tough Sixers and so forth. Jordan not the same level of difficulty in 90's as the 80's except maybe the Jazz, so he went undefeated, Kobe had to battle the best competition in the league yearly in the playoffs just to take the East's best punch, which is why he has more wins against 50 wins teams in the playoffs. With the teams Lebron put together and the level of competition he had to facein the East, he should have won more. Lebron should have been ready for the West in the finals every year. He lost to an aging Dirk while he was in his prime with Wade and Bosh, come on man.

The way you get your stats matter to me. You show up to a knife fight with a knife, that is to be expected it's fair game, still get respect if you lose, but the same level of respect when you win. You show up bare knuckles to a knife fight, and win, thats big dog respect and borderline crazy. Now if you show up with AR-15 with a scope to a
knife fight, I dont care if you have one magazine half full against the coldest samurai in history, you bet not have one darn prosthetic, let alone be wheelchair bond. Guess which one i consider Lebron. Wheelchair Ramboo. His fans would say BUT IT WAS A SAMURAI!!!! lol

a little overboard but hope you get my point

FlashBolt
03-06-2018, 01:21 PM
Kobe didn't start at 18 because he wasn't the best guard on the team at 18... he struggled immensely as evidenced by even in the Pacers series where he played the worst NBA Finals of any top ten player but managed to win thanks to Big Shaq. If LeBron entered the Lakers, he would be starting over Eddie Jones.. That's for sure.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2018, 05:02 PM
wait Kobe versus LeBron is coming up again? This was over years ago, at this point the gap keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

Hawkeye15
03-06-2018, 05:05 PM
This is what im saying. You cant say he didnt win because it was hard and he still be considered top five in my opinon. Look at the competition of the other greats. Magic had to get down with some beasts. Bird and stacked Celtics, Mean *** Pistons ( try to flop or complain against the refs lol) tough Sixers and so forth. Jordan not the same level of difficulty in 90's as the 80's except maybe the Jazz, so he went undefeated, Kobe had to battle the best competition in the league yearly in the playoffs just to take the East's best punch, which is why he has more wins against 50 wins teams in the playoffs. With the teams Lebron put together and the level of competition he had to facein the East, he should have won more. Lebron should have been ready for the West in the finals every year. He lost to an aging Dirk while he was in his prime with Wade and Bosh, come on man.

The way you get your stats matter to me. You show up to a knife fight with a knife, that is to be expected it's fair game, still get respect if you lose, but the same level of respect when you win. You show up bare knuckles to a knife fight, and win, thats big dog respect and borderline crazy. Now if you show up with AR-15 with a scope to a
knife fight, I dont care if you have one magazine half full against the coldest samurai in history, you bet not have one darn prosthetic, let alone be wheelchair bond. Guess which one i consider Lebron. Wheelchair Ramboo. His fans would say BUT IT WAS A SAMURAI!!!! lol

a little overboard but hope you get my point

Go take a peek at what Magic faced out west during the 80's. Hint-it won't be pretty. The Lakers had it so easy out west in the 80's, its a joke. Hell they lost to a sub .500 west team in the playoffs during Magic's run. The path to the finals for the 80's Lakers was a cakewalk. Literally.

Jeffy25
03-06-2018, 06:32 PM
Go take a peek at what Magic faced out west during the 80's. Hint-it won't be pretty. The Lakers had it so easy out west in the 80's, its a joke. Hell they lost to a sub .500 west team in the playoffs during Magic's run. The path to the finals for the 80's Lakers was a cakewalk. Literally.

Yeah, best he ever faced was probably English and Gervin, and their teams weren't much outside of them.

beating a young Sam Perkins, losing to a young Hakeem, beating Dale Ellis?

Not much to stare at, the only 'beasts' he beat would be the Celtics, and that's with Kareem and Worthy on his team.

And I love Magic. My favorite Laker

Jeffy25
03-06-2018, 06:40 PM
Lebron is better at getting his at all cost. Kobe is better at winning when it counts. Not even debatable. It comes down to what you consider great. Rings, Level of competition, or........ stats. Lets not forget that first superteam Lebron created was created to take out Kobe's team. Maybe he himself had some reserve on his own greatness. Also as much as i like watching him play, to say he's even a better entertainer than Kobe is a stretch.

Yes it is, because Bron has been better in the clutch in his career, demonstrably.

Literally the only thing Kobe has over Bron is the number of rings, and if you give Bron a prime Shaq for to start out his career, he'd have 6 rings, not 3.

ewing
03-07-2018, 11:21 AM
wait Kobe versus LeBron is coming up again? This was over years ago, at this point the gap keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

Mamba attitude(never quit)


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Jeffy25
03-09-2018, 04:56 PM
Bron is consistently said to want to play until he is 40 (or 7 seasons after this one)

If he can average per year:
1500 points, 400 rebounds, 400 assists
He would end up around 41K points, 11K boards, 11K assists

That's ****ing insane, and would certainly make him the GOAT, even without any more rings.

FlashBolt
03-09-2018, 10:33 PM
Bron is consistently said to want to play until he is 40 (or 7 seasons after this one)

If he can average per year:
1500 points, 400 rebounds, 400 assists
He would end up around 41K points, 11K boards, 11K assists

That's ****ing insane, and would certainly make him the GOAT, even without any more rings.

I don't know about that one. It would be a testament to his conditioning and athletic prowess but the guy just needs to win some more. I get that this Warriors hurdle has seriously cost him a few titles because with KD joining the Warriors, you can make a case LeBron may never win another title whereas before, it was an absolute possibility but I can't see a career where you win only three titles in a 20 year career and be regarded as the GOAT. Needs to bump it up to five rings and with those numbers that you mentioned? No doubt, GOAT in my mind. Hard to argue.

JasonJohnHorn
03-10-2018, 11:28 AM
Go take a peek at what Magic faced out west during the 80's. Hint-it won't be pretty. The Lakers had it so easy out west in the 80's, its a joke. Hell they lost to a sub .500 west team in the playoffs during Magic's run. The path to the finals for the 80's Lakers was a cakewalk. Literally.

This is a great point, and there are other considerations.

I'll concede that the Heat likely should have won the Mavs series, but they likely should have lost back-to-back finals to the Spurs, who were the better team. And he also should have lost to the Warriors. But Magic and Bird have both lost to inferior teams, even if their respective ring counts were reduced by the fact that they played against each other.

And sure... the Celtics had the Sixers and later Pistons to contend with, but this was a league whose power structure was similar to the current league... you had a handful of dominant teams, and the rest were on the outside looking in. The Lakers and Celtics were in the hunt every year for a decade with teams like the Sixers or Rockets occasionally creeping up and the Pistons eventually putting together a title.

But the difference is that Bird and Magic were essentially on contenders their first year. They were in a position to win as rookies. LBJ came to a team with the worst record in the league and it took two years to get into the playoffs, then the Cavs let their All-Star power forward out of his contract to go to Utah, and that put them back a couple years.

People point to Jordan, and few of them say: Hey, Jordan lost to the Pistons three years in a row. It took him four tries to beat that team. And after that, there was a power vacuum in the NBA where Jordan just went ape $#!t on the league. There were some good teams, but none as good as Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and some teams aroudn these day.

valade16
03-10-2018, 11:46 AM
Bron is consistently said to want to play until he is 40 (or 7 seasons after this one)

If he can average per year:
1500 points, 400 rebounds, 400 assists
He would end up around 41K points, 11K boards, 11K assists

That's ****ing insane, and would certainly make him the GOAT, even without any more rings.

MJ doesn't have the most rings nor the most points in NBA history and he's the GOAT. Getting the most points would be cool, but it certainly won't make him the GOAT, anymore than Kareem, Kobe or Karl Malone are GOAT over MJ right now.

Jeffy25
03-10-2018, 12:37 PM
MJ doesn't have the most rings nor the most points in NBA history and he's the GOAT. Getting the most points would be cool, but it certainly won't make him the GOAT, anymore than Kareem, Kobe or Karl Malone are GOAT over MJ right now.

Fair points. But to compile all of that, with that sort of a career, in this era?

I think it pushes him over Jordan

Which, btw, I think it's unlikely he can age like Kareem did.

europagnpilgrim
03-10-2018, 02:25 PM
He's got an outside chance to be the only member of the 40k, 10k, 10k club. By the time he retires, he could be first in all-time points, top 5 in all-time assists, top 10 in all-time steals and top 40 in all-time rebounds.

Another interesting point of note here, but I think there are two guys who could very well join him on this 30k, 8k, 8k list in 7-8 years: Russell Westbrook and James Harden. It would be tough for either guy to do it, but I think it's possible. Westbrook's biggest challenge is his injury history and if he can stay healthy long enough. Harden's biggest challenge is probably rebounds, as he's not halfway to 8,000 yet.

just imagine had Jabbar/Wilt(who wasn't allowed at that time but could easily have) went straight to the league out of high school and they had kept track of blocks

Wilt would have had like almost 40Kpts or slightly above, his rebound totals which are already adsurd to go along with the blocks around the 8-10k range, what Lebron is doing is what he always been doing but now its so much easier with the switching every man that he ends up with a guard or undersized 3 guy on him, if guys like Green/Tucker can play spot minutes at the 5 then Lebron is really going to bbq chicken the field because he is bigger and stronger than those players with the precision playmaking of a guard, that's not fair nor really impressive but what is impressive is Lebron has been doing this day 1 straight out of HS, now that is what is really impressive for 15 straight years, regardless if he won a ring or not, he balled out

Chronz
03-11-2018, 12:32 PM
Nah. Bron wasn't that good in year 1

Jeffy25
03-11-2018, 05:24 PM
Nah. Bron wasn't that good in year 1

His rookie year had a lot of ups and downs, but he showed plenty of flashes of how great he was going to become.

they showed his debut the other day on tv again, and damn....he was ****ing awesome for a rookie