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View Full Version : If Jordan were playing today where would he rank and how many titles would he win?



BSF101
02-27-2018, 08:17 PM
Like the Title says if Jordon was in the league today where would he rank?
Would he be the next Bill Russel who has 11 titles? Would he even be with or on the Bulls or a team
like the Warriors, Cavs or Celtics? Just something I've always wondered.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-27-2018, 10:31 PM
He would have less titles.

europagnpilgrim
02-27-2018, 10:42 PM
Jordon wouldn't win any, Jordan would probably win 3

mil_radenkovic
02-27-2018, 10:57 PM
He wouldn't get past the 2nd quarter. He played too tough and these kids are soft. Too many technicals.

Dade County
02-27-2018, 11:18 PM
Well he would have to face what he crated in away. Super Star foul calls.

If he played in the East, he would have to get pass Lbj & if their teams was evenly matched, I would give the edge to Lbj team, because Lbj has proven he can take any damn team to the Final's lol

But for real, Lbj system would trump hero ball iso Mj more times then none. I think Mj could have won 2 to 3 rings, but their is no way he would beat this GS team; if his team isnít a Super team too.

Mj makes it to the Finalís 3 to 4 times. Lbj takes the rest of the times.

Mj 3 titles & 1 loss
Lbj 4 titles & 1 loss (Having a player like Mj in the league, Lbj wouldn't have given Dallas a championship lol)

It would have been Mj team vs the Spurs in 2007 I think, and also Mj vs those Boston teams with Ray, Kg & the actress. Also, Orlando with Howard would have never went to the Final's, so we would have seen Mj vs Kobe Lakers.

Man crazy fun.

Dade County
02-28-2018, 12:24 AM
Jordan on the Bulls 2003... Lbj drafted by the Cav's 2003

If Mj is in that draft, I don't know where he would windup, so I am just placing him on the Bulls Lol

2003: Jordan & Lbj don't lead those teams to the Finals.
2004: Pistons are too tough, same outcome
2005: idk, it would have been Mj team vs Wade & Shaq in the 2nd rd maybe.
2006: I really don't know if Miami wins in 2006, it's hard to tell what the Bulls would have put around Mj
2007: Mj over Lbj Cav's for sure lol... But I don't see Mj beating the Spurs
2008: Super tough, Lbj rolling, Boston creates it's Super Team, and of course by now Mj would have had a good team too.
2009: Mj vs Kobe. I am pretty sure Mj team would be good enough by now to challenge a team out West.
2010: Mj back to the Finals over Boston. I think for sure Mj wins a title here over Kobe Lakers.
2011: Lbj heads to Miami. Lbj wins his first title, can't afford to follow the script and give Dallas a title. To much pressure from Mj.
2012: Lbj wins another title. Reports Mj might want out of Chicago, needs more help. Bulls target Howard.
2013: Lbj/HEAT 3 peat. Jordan demands a tarde. Melo gets traded to the Bulls instead of Ny
2014: Lbj Heat vs Mj Bulls, with Melo & Howard. Mj team wins & face the Spurs.
2015: Lbj Cavs vs Mj Bulls. Love gets hurt again & Bulls go to the Finals to face GS.
2016: Lbj vs Mj Bulls, Howard gets traded from the Bulls before the trade deadline; he wanted more touches. Lbj wins with a healthy team to face the 73 win GS team.
2017: KD goes to GS & they win the title over whoever comes out of the East.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 12:40 AM
He couldn't and wouldn't beat the Warriors. He'd also hit way more 3's and be a better 3 point shooter, and likely surround himself with more 3 and D guys on the perimeter.

He and Bron would be the best in the game, just ahead of Durant and Curry.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 12:42 AM
Jordan on the Bulls 2003... Lbj drafted by the Cav's 2003
At 21 years old?

KingPosey
02-28-2018, 12:42 AM
I mean can we pick his team? If heís on the spurs he would have won infinity

Dade County
02-28-2018, 03:15 AM
At 21 years old?

I just placed him on the Bulls as if he as drafted, but not drafted lol

Didn't want to think about him actually in the 2003 draft class.



I mean can we pick his team? If heís on the spurs he would have won infinity

lol

I think you know that you are going to far. But there was no specification.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 03:23 AM
I just placed him on the Bulls as if he as drafted, but not drafted lol

Didn't want to think about him actually in the 2003 draft class.




lol

I think you know that you are going to far. But there was no specification.

Probably most fair to put him on the Bulls

brandt
02-28-2018, 03:41 AM
Heíd still be the best and would still have 6 rings, maybe even more.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 03:54 AM
Heíd still be the best and would still have 6 rings, maybe even more.

Playing against super teams? More rings?

Ahriman
02-28-2018, 05:51 AM
He'd probably have his own too

ewing
02-28-2018, 09:00 AM
First, a lot


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Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 10:35 AM
he would be the best player on the planet most likely, although a slightly different player (he would have adapted to the rules). As far as titles, who knows, what does him playing now do to the other 29 teams? Does GS still have their 4 HOF'ers? If we just randomly dropped Jordan into the league and he was signed by a team with cap space, he wouldn't win anywhere near 6 titles. His Bulls teams couldn't beat GS with these rules, but the team success is a huge guess honestly.

He would be the best in the game currently. Drop him in 6 years ago, and it's him and LeBron.

europagnpilgrim
02-28-2018, 11:19 AM
Well he would have to face what he crated in away. Super Star foul calls.

If he played in the East, he would have to get pass Lbj & if their teams was evenly matched, I would give the edge to Lbj team, because Lbj has proven he can take any damn team to the Final's lol

But for real, Lbj system would trump hero ball iso Mj more times then none. I think Mj could have won 2 to 3 rings, but their is no way he would beat this GS team; if his team isnít a Super team too.

Mj makes it to the Finalís 3 to 4 times. Lbj takes the rest of the times.

Mj 3 titles & 1 loss
Lbj 4 titles & 1 loss (Having a player like Mj in the league, Lbj wouldn't have given Dallas a championship lol)

It would have been Mj team vs the Spurs in 2007 I think, and also Mj vs those Boston teams with Ray, Kg & the actress. Also, Orlando with Howard would have never went to the Final's, so we would have seen Mj vs Kobe Lakers.

Man crazy fun.


Jordan avg like 33ppg and 11apg in his first Finals trip, Jordan went on a triple double terror early in his career, Jordan could put up 8apg at will if he had chosen to, its only a handful or two guards capable of doing both equally as Jordan could, so I would love a player who can do hero ball and get those volume dimes as well at the same time

'come fly with me' version was I guess more hero ball because he wasn't winning titles and making deep playoff runs but I would counter that and say his team wasn't built for it, but he didn't get his team to not one Finals prior and that's where Lebron comes into play because he did take a team to the Finals that wasn't really built for it, that gets major points

and had Lebron not went into hero ball mode against Pistons in 07' they would have got sent home, so hero ball means as much as the ''over passing to get volume assists numbers'' ball player, depends on whats needed in the scenario, give me the scorer/shot maker first, points win titles, defense tags along for the ride but the media and its puppet players will always try and choke you with that non sense of defense wins championships, if that was the case the Spurs would have 10 titles in 20yrs instead of just 5, they had plenty of defense but just not enough offense when coming up short in those other years

europagnpilgrim
02-28-2018, 11:23 AM
he would be the best player on the planet most likely, although a slightly different player (he would have adapted to the rules). As far as titles, who knows, what does him playing now do to the other 29 teams? Does GS still have their 4 HOF'ers? If we just randomly dropped Jordan into the league and he was signed by a team with cap space, he wouldn't win anywhere near 6 titles. His Bulls teams couldn't beat GS with these rules, but the team success is a huge guess honestly.

He would be the best in the game currently. Drop him in 6 years ago, and it's him and LeBron.

with the number one overall pick, the Hawkeye15 Express Trust selects:

Jordan or Lebron with number one overall pick to start your expansion franchise

pacofunk64
02-28-2018, 11:28 AM
I mean can we pick his team? If heís on the spurs he would have won infinity

You put Jordan with Leonard and WOW. Leonard plays very similar to Pippen.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 11:38 AM
with the number one overall pick, the Hawkeye15 Express Trust selects:

Jordan or Lebron with number one overall pick to start your expansion franchise

Michael Jordan

KnicksorBust
02-28-2018, 12:25 PM
Where would he rank? :laugh:

KnicksorBust
02-28-2018, 12:27 PM
Like the Title says if Jordon was in the league today where would he rank?
Would he be the next Bill Russel who has 11 titles? Would he even be with or on the Bulls or a team
like the Warriors, Cavs or Celtics? Just something I've always wondered.

The best part of this thread is would have have left in FA. Depends where he was drafted. I really think LeBron made a great decision leaving the wasteland that was Cleveland. They did a terrible job building around him. However if MJ had Pippen and Phil does he leave Chicago to form a bigger superteam to compete with GState? I don't know but I don't think so.

nastynice
02-28-2018, 12:40 PM
He'd smack LeBron in the east, then get smacked by the Dubs in the finals :)

Def not 6 titles. He'd still be the best individual player probably

brandt
02-28-2018, 02:33 PM
Playing against super teams? More rings?
Yep! Didnít Lebron go to to like 5 or 6 championships in a row? The only difference is MJ would have won all of them, because heís just flat out better. And what makes you think he wouldnít be on a super team too? He pretty much already was just because of him alone, but then you add Pippen, Rodman, Grant, kukoc, etc...

Giannis94
02-28-2018, 02:58 PM
Jordan would also create a super team. so he would be in the finals a lot

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 03:02 PM
Yep! Didnít Lebron go to to like 5 or 6 championships in a row? The only difference is MJ would have won all of them, because heís just flat out better. And what makes you think he wouldnít be on a super team too? He pretty much already was just because of him alone, but then you add Pippen, Rodman, Grant, kukoc, etc...

This is contrary to all of the arguments used to prop up Jordan and dismiss Bron in the Goat arguments.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 04:03 PM
Yep! Didnít Lebron go to to like 5 or 6 championships in a row? The only difference is MJ would have won all of them, because heís just flat out better. And what makes you think he wouldnít be on a super team too? He pretty much already was just because of him alone, but then you add Pippen, Rodman, Grant, kukoc, etc...

haha, has anyone actually looked at the finals opponents Jordan faced? LeBron's finals road has been exponentially more difficult. Seriously, Jordan never faced anything remotely close to the 2014 Spurs, or 2015, 2016, and 2017 Warriors. Nothing.even.close.

hallzi43
02-28-2018, 04:14 PM
Tough to say where he would end up if he were in todays NBA. But he would still be Jordan and he would still be one of the best in the league. Which just isn't enough in itself in this league to win a championship. But it is enough to win an MVP and make the playoffs.

I would say he either wins less MVP's or less Championships in todays league. Because either we realize how great he is but his teams aren't as dominant because less superstars around him, or we start to forget about how great he is because he is playing with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, etc...

nastynice
02-28-2018, 05:46 PM
haha, has anyone actually looked at the finals opponents Jordan faced? LeBron's finals road has been exponentially more difficult. Seriously, Jordan never faced anything remotely close to the 2014 Spurs, or 2015, 2016, and 2017 Warriors. Nothing.even.close.

Dude those teams were savage, you don't remember sonics, spurs, rockets, jazz? That western conference was a beast, even Phoenix was monster when they faced them. Blazers were also good.

2017 Warriors are really the only team you could legit say far and away better than other teams

GoferKing_
02-28-2018, 05:48 PM
This thread is terrible. You need to give out more information, not just "MJ in the league toady, go".

Btw. Jordan would dominate. Easy.

brandt
02-28-2018, 05:52 PM
This is contrary to all of the arguments used to prop up Jordan and dismiss Bron in the Goat arguments.

I donít need to argue who is better. Jordon is, hands down. I donít even know why people bother arguing that. You questioned whether or not he would have six rings with it being a super team era. Well, if Lebron has been on one of these so called super teams, then that just solidifies my point. Because that means he had more help. There were plenty of games in the playoffs that Lebron as a leader, had the chance to win but didnít. Jordon would have.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 05:53 PM
Dude those teams were savage, you don't remember sonics, spurs, rockets, jazz? That western conference was a beast, even Phoenix was monster when they faced them. Blazers were also good.

2017 Warriors are really the only team you could legit say far and away better than other teams

I sure do. ESPN did a deal a while ago. Forget regular season. Take the 2014 Spurs for instance. That team, after game 4 against the Mavs, went on a run that rivals any team in history. They pasted everything in sight.

They did a ranking of all the teams in the finals and how they played during their playoff run (the only flaw was it ranked them after the results), and Jordan's Bulls best opponent would have ranked the 4th best team LeBron went against.

LeBron, has faced far better finals teams than Jordan did. Fact.

nastynice
02-28-2018, 05:54 PM
I sure do. ESPN did a deal a while ago. Forget regular season. Take the 2014 Spurs for instance. That team, after game 4 against the Mavs, went on a run that rivals any team in history. They pasted everything in sight.

They did a ranking of all the teams in the finals and how they played during their playoff run (the only flaw was it ranked them after the results), and Jordan's Bulls best opponent would have ranked the 4th best team LeBron went against.

LeBron, has faced far better finals teams than Jordan did. Fact.

Then I can definitely tell you off the bat that's a little bit bs ish way to rank the teams. Not completely, but a little

If LeBron is on the floor and the mavs are dominating the heat, what's that say about lebron?

If Jordan is on the floor and the jazz aren't able to close out a game against the bulls the way they been doing against all the best teams those years, what's that say about Jordan?

It's a team game, not saying it's all on one player, but they def a huge part of the equation

brandt
02-28-2018, 06:01 PM
haha, has anyone actually looked at the finals opponents Jordan faced? LeBron's finals road has been exponentially more difficult. Seriously, Jordan never faced anything remotely close to the 2014 Spurs, or 2015, 2016, and 2017 Warriors. Nothing.even.close.
What are you arguing? Did you not just state in a previous post that Jordon would be the best player in the NBA right now? So what if Lebron has had it tougher? Heís also probably had some better pieces to play with. AND Jordon came through for his team time after time after time again. He was clutch and still would be. I canít say the same for Lebron.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 06:08 PM
I sure do. ESPN did a deal a while ago. Forget regular season. Take the 2014 Spurs for instance. That team, after game 4 against the Mavs, went on a run that rivals any team in history. They pasted everything in sight.

They did a ranking of all the teams in the finals and how they played during their playoff run (the only flaw was it ranked them after the results), and Jordan's Bulls best opponent would have ranked the 4th best team LeBron went against.

LeBron, has faced far better finals teams than Jordan did. Fact.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/lebrons-nba-finals-opponents-mjs/story?id=47911521

Based on ELO ratings, here is the summary:


Add it all up, and James has faced eight of the 35 best NBA finalists. If you take the average all-time rank of each of his Finals opponents, you end up with a mean rank of 19. Do the same for Jordan, and you land on an average of 35. That basically means the average team Jordan faced in the NBA Finals is the same as the worst team James ever played on the biggest stage.

nastynice
02-28-2018, 06:09 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/lebrons-nba-finals-opponents-mjs/story?id=47911521

Based on ELO ratings, here is the summary:

Haha, yea I Def ain't buying that rating system at face value

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 06:11 PM
What are you arguing? Did you not just state in a previous post that Jordon would be the best player in the NBA right now? So what if Lebron has had it tougher? Heís also probably had some better pieces to play with. AND Jordon came through for his team time after time after time again. He was clutch and still would be. I canít say the same for Lebron.

Hasn't it been proven plenty of times that Bron has created more team success inside the final 24 seconds in NBA history?

Whether it be from an assist or a score, he basically has the greatest success percentage of all-time. Even better than Jordan's numbers in the final few seconds.

brandt
02-28-2018, 06:12 PM
Hasn't it been proven plenty of times that Bron has created more team success inside the final 24 seconds in NBA history?

Whether it be from an assist or a score, he basically has the greatest success percentage of all-time. Even better than Jordan's numbers in the final few seconds.
That doesnít really tell me anything other than that Labron hit more clutch shots that didnít mean as much, hence 3 rings to 6.

nastynice
02-28-2018, 06:12 PM
Hasn't it been proven plenty of times that Bron has created more team success inside the final 24 seconds in NBA history?

Whether it be from an assist or a score, he basically has the greatest success percentage of all-time. Even better than Jordan's numbers in the final few seconds.

Is he really?

Jordan was def unstoppable in the clutch. You could feel it off him, everyone knew where the ball was going and no one could do anything about it

LeBron is somewhat similar, but I feel like his poor clutch free throw shooting kinda makes him hesitant. He don't grab that **** by the horns the same way Jordan did

KingPosey
02-28-2018, 06:16 PM
haha, has anyone actually looked at the finals opponents Jordan faced? LeBron's finals road has been exponentially more difficult. Seriously, Jordan never faced anything remotely close to the 2014 Spurs, or 2015, 2016, and 2017 Warriors. Nothing.even.close.
Thatís like saying a trip was brutal because at the very end there was a ton of construction. Heís had open roads to the finals.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:21 PM
Then I can definitely tell you off the bat that's a little bit bs ish way to rank the teams. Not completely, but a little

If LeBron is on the floor and the mavs are dominating the heat, what's that say about lebron?

If Jordan is on the floor and the jazz aren't able to close out a game against the bulls the way they been doing against all the best teams those years, what's that say about Jordan?

It's a team game, not saying it's all on one player, but they def a huge part of the equation

I actually disagree. Perfect example is teams like last years Warriors. Or the Spurs forever. They know the regular season is just that, a regular season. THey don't turn it on until the playoffs. Meaning, the team you see in March, isn't the team you see come playoffs. I actually like the ranking system.

As great as Jordan was, he has become this mythical creature that everyone stands up and protects, which is funny to me. His Bulls would not have won 6 straight against the teams LeBron has faced. Not even remotely close actually. Maybe time does that to people. It's natural for people to always think the older days were better.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:22 PM
Thatís like saying a trip was brutal because at the very end there was a ton of construction. Heís had open roads to the finals.

so? It isolates finals opponents, straight up. Doesn't change anything I said. The poster claimed Jordan would have won the 5-6 finals that LeBron went to. No, he wouldn't have. He would have run into much tougher teams than he played against if he were the one running into the same teams.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 06:25 PM
Is he really?

Jordan was def unstoppable in the clutch. You could feel it off him, everyone knew where the ball was going and no one could do anything about it

LeBron is somewhat similar, but I feel like his poor clutch free throw shooting kinda makes him hesitant. He don't grab that **** by the horns the same way Jordan did

I do believe that compilation ignored free throws and free throw attempts, just fg's and assists vs opportunities.

Bron is def a worse free throw shooter and Jordan would sometimes get the foul drawn and that would win the game.


Bron also passes in the final seconds a ton more than Jordan ever did (as that study showed). But I can't remember it and it's probably a few years old by now that the data has likely changed enough.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:25 PM
What are you arguing? Did you not just state in a previous post that Jordon would be the best player in the NBA right now? So what if Lebron has had it tougher? Heís also probably had some better pieces to play with. AND Jordon came through for his team time after time after time again. He was clutch and still would be. I canít say the same for Lebron.

I think Jordan would be the best player in 2017, yep. Probably the best during the last 8 years too. But even if he was better than LeBron, the gap would need to be substantial to be much better than 3-4 in the finals the last 7 years.

You can claim whatever you like. The fact is, the finals teams LeBron has faced, have been easily superior to the ones Jordan faced. Now, if you think that Jordan was SO much better, that he would have overcome anyways, than fine. I don't think he is substantially better than James at all. So I don't think he fairs any better than James did, sans the 2011 Mavs series. So I think Jordan, given LeBron's teammates and finals opponents, probably goes 3-4, because I think he wins 2011, and loses 2016.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:28 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/lebrons-nba-finals-opponents-mjs/story?id=47911521

Based on ELO ratings, here is the summary:


Add it all up, and James has faced eight of the 35 best NBA finalists. If you take the average all-time rank of each of his Finals opponents, you end up with a mean rank of 19. Do the same for Jordan, and you land on an average of 35. That basically means the average team Jordan faced in the NBA Finals is the same as the worst team James ever played on the biggest stage.

exactly what I was getting at.

Jordan was amazing. Best I have seen I think. But people treat him like a ****ing god. It's ridiculous.

Jeffy25
02-28-2018, 06:28 PM
That doesnít really tell me anything other than that Labron hit more clutch shots that didnít mean as much, hence 3 rings to 6.

It also covered playoffs.

People tend to remember that Kyrie hit a big 3, but forget that Bron scored the other final 10 points of the game 7 for the Cavs (one 2, 5 free throws, one 3).

Selective memory is rampant in this world.

valade16
02-28-2018, 06:28 PM
I don't have access to 538's ELO ratings, so I'll use SRS as a substitute. It's obvious that LeBron has faced tougher teams in the Finals, but he hasn't consistently beat them.

2017 Warriors: 11.35 SRS - Loss
2016 Warriors 10.38 - Win
2015 Warriors 10.01 - Loss
2007 Spurs 8.35 - Loss
2014 Spurs 8.00 - Loss
2013 Spurs 6.67 - Win
2012 Thunder 6.44 - Win
2011 Mavericks 4.41 - Loss

vs MJ:

1997 Jazz 7.97 - Win
1996 Sonics 7.40 - Win
1992 Blazers 6.94 - Win
1991 Lakers 6.73 - Win
1993 Suns 6.27 - Win
1998 Jazz 5.73 - Win


So if we compare obviously LeBron has faced way more elite teams in the Finals, but his record in games against teams with an SRS above 8.0 is 1-4. However Jordan defeated 4 teams better than any team LeBron has beat (except the 16 Warriors) and more importantly he didn't lose at all.

LeBron has the best win (vs the 16 Warriors) but also the worst loss (vs the 11 Mavs).

So given that we know that LeBron likely wouldn't be able to go 6-0 vs teams the caliber MJ faced because he has lost to an inferior team to them in one of his 3 Finals vs those caliber teams. The big question is whether MJ would have gone 1-4 vs teams the caliber LeBron has faced vs the best teams he's faced.

I don't know. I think it's conceivable that he could have gone 2-3 or possibly 3-2, but there is no way I think MJ would have gone 5-0 vs those teams.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:31 PM
That doesnít really tell me anything other than that Labron hit more clutch shots that didnít mean as much, hence 3 rings to 6.

false. When LeBron is on the floor in final moments of playoffs, his teams excel. The numbers are there. Selective memory, versus data collected over years, is an easy call.

It's like the Kobe fans that claimed for years he was Mr Clutch, when it was shown over and over again his team ate **** in closing moments.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-28-2018, 06:32 PM
The guys that are helping form these super teams would be first trying to figure out a way to hop on with the bulls. I think he matches his 6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:32 PM
I don't have access to 538's ELO ratings, so I'll use SRS as a substitute. It's obvious that LeBron has faced tougher teams in the Finals, but he hasn't consistently beat them.

2017 Warriors: 11.35 SRS - Loss
2016 Warriors 10.38 - Win
2015 Warriors 10.01 - Loss
2007 Spurs 8.35 - Loss
2014 Spurs 8.00 - Loss
2013 Spurs 6.67 - Win
2012 Thunder 6.44 - Win
2011 Mavericks 4.41 - Loss

vs MJ:

1997 Jazz 7.97 - Win
1996 Sonics 7.40 - Win
1992 Blazers 6.94 - Win
1991 Lakers 6.73 - Win
1993 Suns 6.27 - Win
1998 Jazz 5.73 - Win


So if we compare obviously LeBron has faced way more elite teams in the Finals, but his record in games against teams with an SRS above 8.0 is 1-4. However Jordan defeated 4 teams better than any team LeBron has beat (except the 16 Warriors) and more importantly he didn't lose at all.

LeBron has the best win (vs the 16 Warriors) but also the worst loss (vs the 11 Mavs).

So given that we know that LeBron likely wouldn't be able to go 6-0 vs teams the caliber MJ faced because he has lost to an inferior team to them in one of his 3 Finals vs those caliber teams. The big question is whether MJ would have gone 1-4 vs teams the caliber LeBron has faced vs the best teams he's faced.

I don't know. I think it's conceivable that he could have gone 2-3 or possibly 3-2, but there is no way I think MJ would have gone 5-0 vs those teams.

this all started because a poster made the claim that Jordan would have won the rings that LeBron missed on. My response, was that Jordan would be facing much tougher teams, so running with his success years ago against inferior teams, doesn't work for me.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 06:33 PM
It also covered playoffs.

People tend to remember that Kyrie hit a big 3, but forget that Bron scored the other final 10 points of the game 7 for the Cavs (one 2, 5 free throws, one 3).

Selective memory is rampant in this world.

or that LeBron went nova and brought the Heat within striking distance against the Spurs, before Ray hit that memorable 3. Without LeBron playing like LeBron, that game was over waaaaaaaaaay before that shot.

nastynice
02-28-2018, 06:47 PM
I actually disagree. Perfect example is teams like last years Warriors. Or the Spurs forever. They know the regular season is just that, a regular season. THey don't turn it on until the playoffs. Meaning, the team you see in March, isn't the team you see come playoffs. I actually like the ranking system.

As great as Jordan was, he has become this mythical creature that everyone stands up and protects, which is funny to me. His Bulls would not have won 6 straight against the teams LeBron has faced. Not even remotely close actually. Maybe time does that to people. It's natural for people to always think the older days were better.

I got no beef with ignoring the season for those teams, but I'm just saying, off the bat at face value, the west head some hard hitters before the Lakers spurs takeover began, those were some legit teams he faced, finals worthy teams that already went thru a couple other finals worthy teams

I'm not trying to overhype anything he did, but saying LeBron faced some sort of diff level of competition in the finals (outside of the 2017 Warriors), I ain't buying it. MJ faced legit *** teams, as did LeBron

I think that Stat is flawed there, probably something that changed and gives modern teams much higher numbers. Kinda how 36% from 3 is nothing impressive today, but was elite back then

valade16
02-28-2018, 07:02 PM
this all started because a poster made the claim that Jordan would have won the rings that LeBron missed on. My response, was that Jordan would be facing much tougher teams, so running with his success years ago against inferior teams, doesn't work for me.

When you look at the team's LeBron lost to, it is very difficult to find one in which he had a reasonable chance or expectation of winning.

His putrid supporting cast vs the 07 Spurs? No way.

vs last years Warriors? No way.

He would have had a chance against the 2015 Warriors if Love and Kyrie weren't hurt, but as that was, no way.

Possibly against the 2014 Spurs, but they were playing so well in the playoffs it is very doubtful he had a chance.

brandt
02-28-2018, 07:05 PM
I think Jordan would be the best player in 2017, yep. Probably the best during the last 8 years too. But even if he was better than LeBron, the gap would need to be substantial to be much better than 3-4 in the finals the last 7 years.

You can claim whatever you like. The fact is, the finals teams LeBron has faced, have been easily superior to the ones Jordan faced. Now, if you think that Jordan was SO much better, that he would have overcome anyways, than fine. I don't think he is substantially better than James at all. So I don't think he fairs any better than James did, sans the 2011 Mavs series. So I think Jordan, given LeBron's teammates and finals opponents, probably goes 3-4, because I think he wins 2011, and loses 2016.
Well, Iíve seen plenty of games by both, and from what Iíve seen Jordan has come through for his teams more. Especially in clutch situations. There have been several times when Lebron had a chance to win a playoff game, and honestly even a complete Championship but failed to come through for his team. Iím not saying that it was a game winning shot or anything, but he could have given his team a chance to win. To be the best in my opinion, you have to be a leader and come through in the clutch. Jordan has always done that,
Lebron has not.

brandt
02-28-2018, 07:14 PM
It also covered playoffs.

People tend to remember that Kyrie hit a big 3, but forget that Bron scored the other final 10 points of the game 7 for the Cavs (one 2, 5 free throws, one 3).

Selective memory is rampant in this world.
Iím talking about the playoffs, thatís where it counts the most. Nothing to do with a selective memory. I remember plenty of those shots that Le Bron made. Jordan made more though, at least more important ones.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 10:06 PM
Well, Iíve seen plenty of games by both, and from what Iíve seen Jordan has come through for his teams more. Especially in clutch situations. There have been several times when Lebron had a chance to win a playoff game, and honestly even a complete Championship but failed to come through for his team. Iím not saying that it was a game winning shot or anything, but he could have given his team a chance to win. To be the best in my opinion, you have to be a leader and come through in the clutch. Jordan has always done that,
Lebron has not.

I am 42. Watched Jordan like a religion. I simply understand that ignoring data in favor of my memory is ridiculous. No offense dude, but I don't trust your eyes over the data either.

They are equals. The only reason Jordan will finished ranked ahead, is because team success. And a huge part of that is luck of the draw. LeBron drew much better finals opponents. Hence the disparity is team success.

Hawkeye15
02-28-2018, 10:08 PM
Iím talking about the playoffs, thatís where it counts the most. Nothing to do with a selective memory. I remember plenty of those shots that Le Bron made. Jordan made more though, at least more important ones.

In the playoffs, Lebrons teams are elite in closing minutes. Because of Lebron. So were Jordans. Jordan wasn't facing the same caliber of teams though.

ODB13
02-28-2018, 10:43 PM
Jordan's Bulls toasted a tougher league. They would dominate this era, as well.

lakerfan85
02-28-2018, 10:46 PM
Lebron wouldíve left whatever team he was on to join MJ..

nastynice
02-28-2018, 10:50 PM
They'd both leave their teams to join curry

JordansBulls
03-01-2018, 12:36 AM
Best player in the league handily with at least 12 titles in this era. Jordan was dominating in a much more powerful era where bigs dominated. Now playing in an era with wings he would crush these guys.

LOb0
03-01-2018, 12:51 AM
Jordan with the elite level shooting in today's game with the watered down individual defense would be scary to see.

I'm not really sure how to answer this question because what team is he on and who is he playing with?

If you swap him for LeBron on the Cavs/Heat I'd say it goes:

Up to 2009 he loses.

2010: I think they win the title. Cavs owned LA whenever they played.
2011: Easily win the title
2012: Easy title win
2013: They win a close series
2014: I'd say it's 40% they win, I hated how Bron played that finals
2015: Cavs score zero in overtime in game 1, needless to say that's not happening with Mike. I think MJ loses in 7 due to all the injuries
2016: I think they win. Bron played so bad 3 out of the first 4.
2017: I don't feel he's beating this GS team, but he'd scare them badly.

So I'd say 5 (or 6 if he went supernova) would be a safe bet.

Jeffy25
03-01-2018, 01:34 AM
or that LeBron went nova and brought the Heat within striking distance against the Spurs, before Ray hit that memorable 3. Without LeBron playing like LeBron, that game was over waaaaaaaaaay before that shot.

The Heat entered that 4th quarter down by 10, and Bron went ahead and scored 17 (including the 3 prior to Allen's to make it a 2 point game) along with 2 boards (both offensive) and 2 assists of the Heat's 30, 4th quarter points.

NYY 26 to 7
03-01-2018, 07:59 AM
In today's NBA with no hand checking and a way less physical game Jordan could average 50 a game. I wonder how many people talking about LeBron really watched Jordan play. Those Bulls teams today would've won the same amount and were structured extremely well for today's game but just would've shot more 3's. They had great shooters.

KnicksorBust
03-01-2018, 08:58 AM
LeBron played tougher opponents but didn't he also have better teammates? Wade/Bosh > Pippen/nobody for those first 3 rings

ewing
03-01-2018, 09:42 AM
or that LeBron went nova and brought the Heat within striking distance against the Spurs, before Ray hit that memorable 3. Without LeBron playing like LeBron, that game was over waaaaaaaaaay before that shot.

Or that he was scared to shoot a jump shot to open the series. Jordan would have scored 100 points if anyone ever defended him the way Pop did to open that series. Honestly, its a dumb debate b/c if he played today he'd have different teammates so you can't say weather he would have beat the Spurs or not. I do think you can say he'd give you a better shot at winning then any other individual player. I don't think that is close. I know you are a LeBron lover and may disagree with the last statement and Jeffy always wants to mortalize MJ but I think if you look at how he played when it matter (every time) he wasn't mortal

Pfeifer
03-01-2018, 09:55 AM
In today's NBA with no hand checking and a way less physical game Jordan could average 50 a game. I wonder how many people talking about LeBron really watched Jordan play. Those Bulls teams today would've won the same amount and were structured extremely well for today's game but just would've shot more 3's. They had great shooters.

I often wonder the same thing. Lebron would have wanted to play with MJ lol.

ewing
03-01-2018, 10:41 AM
I often wonder the same thing. Lebron would have wanted to play with MJ lol.

Bron and KD would have run to play with MJ


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KnicksorBust
03-01-2018, 12:59 PM
Or that he was scared to shoot a jump shot to open the series. Jordan would have scored 100 points if anyone ever defended him the way Pop did to open that series. Honestly, its a dumb debate b/c if he played today he'd have different teammates so you can't say weather he would have beat the Spurs or not. I do think you can say he'd give you a better shot at winning then any other individual player. I don't think that is close. I know you are a LeBron lover and may disagree with the last statement and Jeffy always wants to mortalize MJ but I think if you look at how he played when it matter (every time) he wasn't mortal

With LeBron is everyone either a lover or a hater?

ewing
03-01-2018, 01:09 PM
With LeBron is everyone either a lover or a hater?

I donít think so. I think most people give him do credit for bring an all timer even if they donít like the way he conducts himself


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ODB13
03-01-2018, 04:20 PM
LeBron faced tougher Finals opponents but played in a far worse league overall. You couldn't take games off and get a high seed like today.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2018, 04:40 PM
Or that he was scared to shoot a jump shot to open the series. Jordan would have scored 100 points if anyone ever defended him the way Pop did to open that series. Honestly, its a dumb debate b/c if he played today he'd have different teammates so you can't say weather he would have beat the Spurs or not. I do think you can say he'd give you a better shot at winning then any other individual player. I don't think that is close. I know you are a LeBron lover and may disagree with the last statement and Jeffy always wants to mortalize MJ but I think if you look at how he played when it matter (every time) he wasn't mortal

you love the early 90's as much I hate it.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2018, 04:41 PM
I donít think so. I think most people give him do credit for bring an all timer even if they donít like the way he conducts himself


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eh, it comes with a big "if" with a lot of you guys. Which is cool. I am old enough that other peoples ranking not matching mine doesn't keep me up at night.

flips333
03-01-2018, 04:56 PM
Playing against super teams? More rings?
This is such insanity. If Jordan is drafted in 2003 then Lebron is the second best player in basketball does the heat ever even happen?


And are we just sticking Jordan on the Bulls teams as they were constructed those years... Well You put Jordan on that team with deng, nocioni, gordon and Tyson Chandler? What about on those 50-60 win tibs teams?
It's hard enough to compare across eras without teams that actually played together. This just throws so many variables into the mix that it's impossible to make hide nor hair. But in the end Jordan's bulls beat some very good teams, multiple 60 win teams in an era where the teams generally were trying to win every night.

ewing
03-01-2018, 05:02 PM
eh, it comes with a big "if" with a lot of you guys. Which is cool. I am old enough that other peoples ranking not matching mine doesn't keep me up at night.

Heís the second best player Iíve seen. as far as impact I donít think we disagree at all except the distance bt him and MJ. You think he is 1B when Mike has his own league.


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ODB13
03-01-2018, 05:32 PM
Heís the second best player Iíve seen. I think as far as impact I donít think we disagree at all except the distance bt him and MJ. You think he is 1B when Mike has his own league.


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If LeBron had to get through the 90s east, with the Heat, Knicks, and Pacers teams, etc., with the way they played defense, his body would have broken down to the point where he would already be retired. The depth of teams in today's league, especially in the east, is a total joke. Simply comparing Finals matchups is simplistic to the point of idiocy.

metswon69
03-02-2018, 06:46 PM
The game has changed a lot since the 1980s and 1990s. I have to believe Jordan would have adapted to the 3 point barrage you see today though. A big part of this question is does he still have Scottie Pippen? If he does, I'm sure he would have won just as many titles if not more, because the team around him would have been better suited to play today's style.

Missing56&33
03-03-2018, 07:43 PM
He would rank #1 in the league....in the World. He'd probably have 3titles. Would've been a much better shooter now than he was back when he played. Lead the league in scoring and been DPOY three consecutive years....he would be stopping Harden, Steph and Lebron regularly and never would join them.

Had he been on OKC....he would never have left OKC to join the Warriors.

I think he would play with Westbrook....and he and RW would just dominate and use SA as the utility man.