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View Full Version : Simmons: How LeBron can finish his fairy tale better than MJ



mightybosstone
02-24-2018, 09:23 AM
https://www.theringer.com/2018/2/23/17043258/lebron-james-lakers-sixers-michael-jordan-free-agency-narrative

A solid column I just finished from Bill Simmons. He makes a strong case for how Lebron could feasibly surpass Jordan and why Lebron should seriously consider Philly and LA. I'm not in 100 percent agreement with everything here, but it's a solid read and he makes some excellent points. It also offers some insight into Jordan's second retirement, which was stuff I'd never heard and found fascinating.

goingfor28
02-24-2018, 09:31 AM
Bill Simmons is a clown

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mightybosstone
02-24-2018, 09:35 AM
Bill Simmons is a clown

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Thanks for adding to the conversation with such thoughtful comments. Super helpful.

Heediot
02-24-2018, 09:36 AM
He doesn't need 6 rings. If he could beat the big 4 warriors, that might just do it.

Bron in philly, has chemistry issues waiting to happen. If Bron becomes an elite shooter and or Simmons becomes above average I can see it working and they could bully the Warriors. James skills takes away from Simmons and Fultz game with the amount of guys needing the ball. He doesn't prefer bigs like Embiid clogging the lanes either.

A team of Beverly/Reddick/James/Simmons/Embiid is pretty nice. You trade Fultz and salary dump on the Clippers take back Beverly. Clips might do it for the rebuild.

I don't see Lakers even a Zo/PG/Bron/Cousins team beating GS. Getting the latter 3 together almost seems impossible. Getting 2 will be hard enough.

FlashBolt
02-24-2018, 03:29 PM
In my honest opinion, I think LeBron should go to the Lakers with KD. I feel KD would significantly help his legacy as well in the sense that he would be considered a "Founding Father" rather than the fourth wheel you sometimes get the impression of from him.

Not only would Lakers add to LeBron's illustrious career of winning title(s) on every team he has been on but it would establish a legacy in the most storied NBA franchise ever.

I believe KD would do this if they win or lose if LeBron declares he will go to the Lakers. Going to the Lakers, as I have already stated, would increase his opportunity to win rings, establish his own legacy, and still keep him within the Cali area.

Why would LeBron do this? Well, let's face it: Cleveland is limited in options. They can trade Love+BKLYN pick but what after that? If KD opts to resign, there is still not much Cleveland can do. I like AD but it's literally their pipe dream move and I'm not sure they would even be the favorites to beat the Warriors. But there is another way for LeBron to team up with AD..

LeBron to Lakers. Durant to Lakers. Two ball-dominating guys on a single team with Lonzo and Ingram already there.. Lakers should package Lonzo, Ingram, and Luol Deng to the Pelicans. Pelicans get two promising top draft picks and even though they are taking Deng's terrible contract, Lonzo+Ingram are two pieces a rebuilding team would not mind carrying along. It doesn't have to be AD as well. Who knows which player comes out crying about their team demanding a trade? Lakers can easily get a top talent in return for Lonzo+Ingram.

A team of LeBron+KD would automatically turn them into the favorites.. surround them with shooters, trade for a center and get some guards to defend and create plays. These two would have statues outside of Staples center down the line. They can easily win rings for the next five years as KD would still be somewhere in his prime, LeBron has a great aging game if he commits to playing PF, and assuming the trades work out, they would still have a top level player.

It's not even about beating the Warriors for LeBron anymore. He won't beat them as KD/Curry/Klay/Green are still in their prime and you can make a valid case that KD is closing in on LeBron in H2H matchups individually.. If he does, yes, he would be above Jordan for me. But if he doesn't, the only other way is to outclass Jordan in rings. Not only does LeBron prolong his career in the Lakers but he will be a part of a team that would be the favorites to win titles even at the age of 38.

flea
02-24-2018, 03:53 PM
Never going to happen, just like nobody is ever going to take Simmons seriously as a journalist.

mightybosstone
02-24-2018, 10:25 PM
Never going to happen, just like nobody is ever going to take Simmons seriously as a journalist.

I don't really view him as a "journalist" necessarily. But I never really have. The guy is more of a writer who entertains with his columns, novels and podcasts. I don't agree with everything he says, but I don't have to. I just enjoy his stuff regardless.

Also, whether you "take him seriously" or not, the guy is laughing all the way to the bank either way. He's about as successful and famous you can possibly get writing about sports and pop culture for a living.

Chronz
02-24-2018, 10:28 PM
Never going to happen, just like nobody is ever going to take Simmons seriously as a journalist.
I used to. Now I see its a shtick the masses fall for. Just curious, does unnecessarily foul language offend you more as you age?

mightybosstone
02-24-2018, 10:43 PM
In my honest opinion, I think LeBron should go to the Lakers with KD. I feel KD would significantly help his legacy as well in the sense that he would be considered a "Founding Father" rather than the fourth wheel you sometimes get the impression of from him.

Not only would Lakers add to LeBron's illustrious career of winning title(s) on every team he has been on but it would establish a legacy in the most storied NBA franchise ever.

I believe KD would do this if they win or lose if LeBron declares he will go to the Lakers. Going to the Lakers, as I have already stated, would increase his opportunity to win rings, establish his own legacy, and still keep him within the Cali area.

Why would LeBron do this? Well, let's face it: Cleveland is limited in options. They can trade Love+BKLYN pick but what after that? If KD opts to resign, there is still not much Cleveland can do. I like AD but it's literally their pipe dream move and I'm not sure they would even be the favorites to beat the Warriors. But there is another way for LeBron to team up with AD.
I think the idea of Lebron to LA makes complete sense, but I think George is just way more likely as his No. 2 at this point. And I think Durant has kind of made his bed and needs to lie in it for a while. I think him jumping ships from one generational talent in Curry to another in Lebron doesn't necessarily help his legacy all that much, especially if he's sacrificing titles he could be winning with the Warriors.

If Durant waits out one more season on a lesser salary, than the Warriors will obviously pick him over Thompson in a year and a half, and Klay will be gone. He'll get his max deal that he's looking for, and he'll get to put down roots somewhere where he's built up some good will.


Two ball-dominating guys on a single team with Lonzo and Ingram already there.. Lakers should package Lonzo, Ingram, and Luol Deng to the Pelicans. Pelicans get two promising top draft picks and even though they are taking Deng's terrible contract, Lonzo+Ingram are two pieces a rebuilding team would not mind carrying along. It doesn't have to be AD as well. Who knows which player comes out crying about their team demanding a trade? Lakers can easily get a top talent in return for Lonzo+Ingram.

Now this I agree with. I'd get Ball the hell out of LA if I'm Magic and I can get Lebron and a second star. Ball and his craptastic family are not worth the headache. Even if it was just for some competent veteran role players, I'd do it. And if they can package some combination of Ball, Ingram and/or Kuzma for a stud No. 3 guy, they should absolutely have that conversation.


A team of LeBron+KD would automatically turn them into the favorites.. surround them with shooters, trade for a center and get some guards to defend and create plays. These two would have statues outside of Staples center down the line. They can easily win rings for the next five years as KD would still be somewhere in his prime, LeBron has a great aging game if he commits to playing PF, and assuming the trades work out, they would still have a top level player.
I just disagree with the idea that KD playing with Lebron will help his legacy. I think most fans would look at it as KD leaving to play with his biggest competition for the second time in three years. And I don't think the Lakers would be a better team on paper with Lebron and Durant than what Durant has now in Golden State. So he'd be leaving one of the most talented teams in NBA history to play with an aging superstar who could be one serious knee injury away from the end of his prime. That's a huge gamble for Durant, and if it doesn't pay off, it doesn't really help him at all in the long run.


It's not even about beating the Warriors for LeBron anymore. He won't beat them as KD/Curry/Klay/Green are still in their prime and you can make a valid case that KD is closing in on LeBron in H2H matchups individually.. If he does, yes, he would be above Jordan for me. But if he doesn't, the only other way is to outclass Jordan in rings. Not only does LeBron prolong his career in the Lakers but he will be a part of a team that would be the favorites to win titles even at the age of 38.
I honestly don't think it's possible for Lebron to surpass Jordan in rings at this point. Like Bill says in his column, Lebron's case over Jordan will be the impressiveness of his overall career. His final career will look like Kareem's on steroids. He'll have Jordan's peak and prime statistical dominance WITH Kareem's ridiculous longevity and consistency.

But he's not going to win more rings than Jordan at this point, and it's really unlikely that he could even match him.

ewing
02-25-2018, 12:43 AM
^^^ drinking the koolaid


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Jeffy25
02-25-2018, 01:12 AM
In my honest opinion, I think LeBron should go to the Lakers with KD. I feel KD would significantly help his legacy as well in the sense that he would be considered a "Founding Father" rather than the fourth wheel you sometimes get the impression of from him.

Not only would Lakers add to LeBron's illustrious career of winning title(s) on every team he has been on but it would establish a legacy in the most storied NBA franchise ever.

I believe KD would do this if they win or lose if LeBron declares he will go to the Lakers. Going to the Lakers, as I have already stated, would increase his opportunity to win rings, establish his own legacy, and still keep him within the Cali area.

Why would LeBron do this? Well, let's face it: Cleveland is limited in options. They can trade Love+BKLYN pick but what after that? If KD opts to resign, there is still not much Cleveland can do. I like AD but it's literally their pipe dream move and I'm not sure they would even be the favorites to beat the Warriors. But there is another way for LeBron to team up with AD..

LeBron to Lakers. Durant to Lakers. Two ball-dominating guys on a single team with Lonzo and Ingram already there.. Lakers should package Lonzo, Ingram, and Luol Deng to the Pelicans. Pelicans get two promising top draft picks and even though they are taking Deng's terrible contract, Lonzo+Ingram are two pieces a rebuilding team would not mind carrying along. It doesn't have to be AD as well. Who knows which player comes out crying about their team demanding a trade? Lakers can easily get a top talent in return for Lonzo+Ingram.

A team of LeBron+KD would automatically turn them into the favorites.. surround them with shooters, trade for a center and get some guards to defend and create plays. These two would have statues outside of Staples center down the line. They can easily win rings for the next five years as KD would still be somewhere in his prime, LeBron has a great aging game if he commits to playing PF, and assuming the trades work out, they would still have a top level player.

It's not even about beating the Warriors for LeBron anymore. He won't beat them as KD/Curry/Klay/Green are still in their prime and you can make a valid case that KD is closing in on LeBron in H2H matchups individually.. If he does, yes, he would be above Jordan for me. But if he doesn't, the only other way is to outclass Jordan in rings. Not only does LeBron prolong his career in the Lakers but he will be a part of a team that would be the favorites to win titles even at the age of 38.

If the Cavs can somehow win the title this year, why wouldn't he want to stay and not bother teaming up with anyone?

Nikeman
02-25-2018, 01:44 AM
In my honest opinion, I think LeBron should go to the Lakers with KD. I feel KD would significantly help his legacy as well in the sense that he would be considered a "Founding Father" rather than the fourth wheel you sometimes get the impression of from him.

Not only would Lakers add to LeBron's illustrious career of winning title(s) on every team he has been on but it would establish a legacy in the most storied NBA franchise ever.

I believe KD would do this if they win or lose if LeBron declares he will go to the Lakers. Going to the Lakers, as I have already stated, would increase his opportunity to win rings, establish his own legacy, and still keep him within the Cali area.

Why would LeBron do this? Well, let's face it: Cleveland is limited in options. They can trade Love+BKLYN pick but what after that? If KD opts to resign, there is still not much Cleveland can do. I like AD but it's literally their pipe dream move and I'm not sure they would even be the favorites to beat the Warriors. But there is another way for LeBron to team up with AD..

LeBron to Lakers. Durant to Lakers. Two ball-dominating guys on a single team with Lonzo and Ingram already there.. Lakers should package Lonzo, Ingram, and Luol Deng to the Pelicans. Pelicans get two promising top draft picks and even though they are taking Deng's terrible contract, Lonzo+Ingram are two pieces a rebuilding team would not mind carrying along. It doesn't have to be AD as well. Who knows which player comes out crying about their team demanding a trade? Lakers can easily get a top talent in return for Lonzo+Ingram.

A team of LeBron+KD would automatically turn them into the favorites.. surround them with shooters, trade for a center and get some guards to defend and create plays. These two would have statues outside of Staples center down the line. They can easily win rings for the next five years as KD would still be somewhere in his prime, LeBron has a great aging game if he commits to playing PF, and assuming the trades work out, they would still have a top level player.

It's not even about beating the Warriors for LeBron anymore. He won't beat them as KD/Curry/Klay/Green are still in their prime and you can make a valid case that KD is closing in on LeBron in H2H matchups individually.. If he does, yes, he would be above Jordan for me. But if he doesn't, the only other way is to outclass Jordan in rings. Not only does LeBron prolong his career in the Lakers but he will be a part of a team that would be the favorites to win titles even at the age of 38.

You sound more like a LeBron fanboy here than anything.

1) KD's legacy is already tarnished. Nobody will respect his championships until he does it as the man. LeBron's two titles in Miami don't nearly mean as much for his legacy as the one in Cleveland. He went back home and brought one to Cleveland by beating a 73 win GSW team. KD colluding with LeBron to join LA will not win him any more supporters. The GSW are now seen as KDs team, if he went to LA with LeBron, he would be seen as a beta until LeBron retired.

2) Why would KD leave GSW? They are dominating the league and everybody is in their prime. He has the DPOY, the former back to back MVP whos playing better than he ever has, and the best catch and shoot player of all time, who also happens to be a stud on D. KD will leave the Warriors if and when he sees another opportunity as LeBron did with Cleveland and lead them to a title. Maybe the Wizards, who knows.

3) LeBron would kill his legacy if he did this. If he builds something to topple GS, it will help his legacy way more than pluck KD from GS and then dominate the league.

mightybosstone
02-25-2018, 06:29 AM
^^^ drinking the koolaid


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Not really. I've said on many occasions and continue to believe that Lebron will not pass MJ in my book. MJ's peak and postseason resume are just so legendary. But that doesn't mean that someone would be incapable of making a case for Lebron over MJ at the end of his career. Basketball legacies are not a black and white discussion. Just because I wouldn't rank Lebron ahead of MJ doesn't make my answer the only right one.

Jamiecballer
02-25-2018, 04:56 PM
If the Cavs can somehow win the title this year, why wouldn't he want to stay and not bother teaming up with anyone?He didn't want to do it himself the first go around, why would he be more inclined as he approaches the end of his career? Note I'm actually humoring you on the idea he could win it this year.

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Jeffy25
02-25-2018, 07:27 PM
He didn't want to do it himself the first go around, why would he be more inclined as he approaches the end of his career? Note I'm actually humoring you on the idea he could win it this year.

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I actually think they are athletic enough to actually be a problem come Finals times with this new group.

I think this is a new and better team. They are insane in transition and the defense is better.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-25-2018, 08:12 PM
He didn't want to do it himself the first go around, why would he be more inclined as he approaches the end of his career? Note I'm actually humoring you on the idea he could win it this year.

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I sure hope he didn't want to. It's impossible to win by yourself. Lebron is good but he can't guard 1 on 5.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-25-2018, 08:13 PM
If the Cavs beat the Warriors last year, I would had had Lebron #1. If he can do it beating the Warriors without stacking up his own roster, I think it's still possible.

Jamiecballer
02-25-2018, 08:28 PM
I actually think they are athletic enough to actually be a problem come Finals times with this new group.

I think this is a new and better team. They are insane in transition and the defense is better.

sure they are, but will they look the same in the playoffs with tighter defense and nobody but Lebron to create? i don't see enough shot creators if they get in tough and have to grind it out. if they make the finals, which they may, i think it will be the most lopsided finals we've seen in a while. i have immense respect for Lebron too btw.

Ishkabibble
02-27-2018, 03:27 PM
Bill Simmons is a clown

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As opposed to you, of course.
List the NYT bestsellers penned by you, OK skippy?